[SPEAKER_00]: Hey guys, welcome to a really fun episode of TFL Carcant.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right, because today we're going to do something new.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to have four separate segments to me, including a colon.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see if anybody calls in.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are recording this at 9.30 on a Tuesday.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is probably not an ideal time for folks to.
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah calling in yeah but we've done it once before with Andre kind of work so we're gonna try something new and that is we're gonna try to have you guys call it and ask us basically what car should I buy so we're gonna try to give you car buying advice at the end of the show and the reason we're doing that is because we've driven what every new car with the last 17 years that's right my hair stick it straight up in the back here it is to get you know no it's because we're gonna hat earlier so if you're watching on a patreon i'll just try to keep looking forward
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going backwards not forward what we'll be talking about so before we do the what car should I buy we're gonna have Romans rant and tell me I have figured out how to save the manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very impressive.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a big task for one person Yes, and so you could you know Either give me a thumbs up or a thumbs down on whether you think that my cutting plan to save the manual is something that is worth
[SPEAKER_00]: doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we're going to talk about car prices with our friends on a campus.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But first we've got a whole bunch of news to cover specifically Tommy, personal news and regular news.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I mean, I think one of the things that a lot of folks watch us for as our offered coverage and we're big fans of the Bronco the Wrangler and the forerner.
[SPEAKER_01]: And over at tflcard.com, we have a right up that our producer Zach put together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exploring which one is the new sales
[SPEAKER_00]: for Q2 of 2026.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the numbers just came out manufacturers used to do it monthly, but now they do it quarterly, and we've got the numbers asked to who is doing the best, and actually the results are pretty surprising, because this time last year the foreign era was not doing well, and surprisingly, it's doing really well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you want to go over those numbers?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, before you do that, have you read the story?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you want to take a guess which one is selling the most?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think probably the Toyota's doing the best So let's scroll down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's see how it's looking We've got a handy little chart here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Q2 sales 26 while I was wrong the foreigners sold 39,000 I know but that's up 81% compared to a year ago
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the Ford Broncos actually doing the best at 45,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's up 15% compared to a year ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the Jeep Wrangler splits the difference at 41,793.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's down 12% compared to a year ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Ford Wrangler, Bronco, our up Wrangler is down, which is interesting because we're helping personally to up those numbers for Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're helping personally to up the numbers for everybody because we've owned a Bronco or Wrangler and a foreigner at this point, but here to date sales, the Jeep is actually still in the lead at 86,000 total for 2026, the 4 to that 79,000 in the Toyota at 72, but the Toyota is definitely making the most headway up 81% compared to where it was last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So clearly, people are warming up.
[SPEAKER_01]: to that new sixth generation for under and I think maybe this time next year it may come ahead from Wrangler and Rockout.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, one of the reasons it's up so much of course is because it just started selling up you know last year at the beginning of the year so the numbers were probably low because they're wearing a lot of them at the dealers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that year to year number is a little deceiving, but, you know, the fact that it's selling so many units in the second quarter is very impressive.
[SPEAKER_00]: So shall we give them our personal news?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I was a former thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bronco finally is outpacing Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_01]: It took him a bunch of years.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the Bronco came out in 21.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's now 26.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it took him five years to really start creeping up ahead of him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that was not unexpected.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the Bronco is even though it's...
[SPEAKER_00]: four years five years old now it's a fresher vehicle in the ring that was eight years old and it is creeping ahead yeah i mean i think jeep probably should have had a refresh if not a completely new well they did in twenty four never that was such a fact yeah i was like three things like you know a new grow different screen and a different interior layout
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's it's it's a refresh would the word mild would be mild But I kind of feel like they saw the wrong who coming and they should have had something waiting in the wings earlier But I was watching a TikTok Tommy and I know this is always dubious and the TikTok was of a guy who
[SPEAKER_00]: Manages, lease returns.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the question was, what car is returned earliest out of his experience and take this with the grain of salt because it is tiktok and I don't know if he is who he says he is, but the question is, what car gets returned the earliest?
[SPEAKER_00]: In other words, let's see, you've got three-year lease, which one gets returned after a year or two?
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you think that was?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I know the answer is it's a Bronco.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the Bronco.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's surprising because everybody I talked to that own Broncos or Owens Broncos seems to really really like them I think that they offer a little bit more livability than the Wrangler Um, but they're also a little bit more interesting than the foreigner.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't really good job of splitting the gaps.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of surprised to hear that news Is that just a dealer saying that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, but in a way I kind of get that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that the interior of the Bronco and we've had now two of them Doesn't match the exterior.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the exterior is kind of, you know, really cool and refined and it looks like, you know, a more refined version of the Jeep.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're like, I don't want to rangle her because that thing goes back to
[SPEAKER_00]: to the World War II G, because it's solid axles, it's definitely one trick-pony, it's off-road, or 100% whereas the Bronco is newer technology, independent suspension, obviously.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then when you go on the inside, it feels very basic and very plasticky.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's the reason that people may be dissatisfied with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, it's kind of loud.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't think the plastic is turning people off from if you're releasing a bronchle, you're not going to return it because the dash plastic's a little bit too hard, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But we have to apologize, got bad allergies, so if I'm like, I'll amazily.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I took a zirtag, don't blame me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think can you sniff outside the mic, you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: I will, I'll try, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what I was going to do was, uh, the Brock was brought in a whole new customer group of people that would never have considered a regular, whatever they were going to try, Bronco.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I do think you're potentially right in that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a little bit loud and a little bit coarse.
[SPEAKER_01]: for what those folks were expecting, but that's just the nature of a tall open top machine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, that's just kind of an anecdotal piece of evidence though.
[SPEAKER_01]: Clearly, it is selling better than the Jeep, which is very, very cool, congratulations to Ford.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, first time that's happened, I think, in a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was talking to, well, I can't tell you what, I was talking to the manager of our dealership that we buy our, you know, the Lance's products from speaking to which you want to give the personal news now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can go for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you go for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we bought a ranger.
[SPEAKER_01]: We bought another ranger.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was a little bit special though.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a 392 willys.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is the quote.
[SPEAKER_01]: affordable way to get a V8 in the Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_01]: So up until now, the V8s have been $90,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Moab came out recently, that brought the price down about 80, and then the wheelies has brought that price down another 10k to 69,95 starting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this one was 74,000 basically 5,000 because I think you can't get the soft top, so you got to pay like $2,500 for the hard top.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like 1800 for the hard top and then it's 85 for the paint and like 170 for the floor mats.
[SPEAKER_01]: But basically, this is such a new thing that we wanted to get it first, rather than as cheap as we possibly could.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the cheap guy said, well, if you want it early, we're not doing the tan soft tops yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're just doing the three piece black hard tops.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what we had to go for.
[SPEAKER_01]: We wanted the cool color.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, so 75, that's still a ridiculous amount of money for a Jeep, but it is now the cheapest way to get a V8 in the Wrangler.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you say V8, but it's more than just a V8.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a 460 horsepower V8, basically the same one that's in the power wagon.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the power wagon it's detuned, I think, to 405.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a lot of power for what is basically a hardcore off-roader and it sounds incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: four years now came about twenty one a five years now twenty twenty six four hundred seventy horsepower for seventy pound feet of torque in a little narrow wrangler right so it's it's a lot of engine for that platform the whole thing kind of torques off the line when you give it some gas so it's a very interesting experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: and the willys does lose the front locker and it does lose the front display bar disconnect but it still has the extreme recon package which got the 35s it's got the suspension lift on it it's got all the protection so we're can't wait to take it off road yeah i love the colors called Goldilocks uh i thought it was going to be like uh
[SPEAKER_00]: a wheat field just a little bit golden colored, but this is like a bar of gold Tommy this is gold is again It's very it's very in your face and I was really bummed because we traded our Canyon AT4 X on it And that was desert side which was it's really well You called it desert you called it colon orange traffic cone orange which I thought was unfair because I thought it was
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a construction color.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a majestic beauty of the sun setting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a traffic cone over Phoenix, Arizona.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, real talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a color that is bought by like construction companies because it looks like a traffic cone.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was my favorite thing about that truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we did unfortunately lose a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when we traded it, they gave us after a year and 6,400 miles, 400 miles they gave us 45,000 dollars for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell them how much we paid for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: 57?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we lost $12,000 in a year.
[SPEAKER_01]: That sounds about right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think that's just kind of a reality of buying these new vehicles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we lost $10,000 when we sold the Bronco, lost $10,000 when we sold the Canyon.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to kind of play in this world of new trucks and you're only going to keep them like a year, they just absolutely bleed money when you drive them off a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, but having said that, Tommy, we traded the Ranger after in the AT4X, and that was also 57,000, and I believe we got 49,000 when we traded that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, true.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, if you're looking for a vehicle that depreciates a lot less than a canyon, or perhaps,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I guess I shouldn't say it to Koma because Tacoma is tend to hold their value, but depreciates a lot less than a can and you look at a range of raptor because I'm not sure if they're still both 57,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think that the problem was the range of raptor was very new and very exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think now the situation might be a little different now that's been out for some time, but yeah, really excited about this Jeep.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's going to be an interesting series to see like you need the front locker and you need this way of artists connect.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's it like, you know, living with the 3002 Wrangler, we'll have some drag racing with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we've got to defend the defender, Oxford are coming up, which I think will kill it in a drag race.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it'll be cool to still see inside by side and we'll do some off-road stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a lot of videos coming up, and those are, of course, going to be over at all TFL.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the first, you know, we bought this is coming up very soon.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's keep going.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about the other big news, and that is, what's the fastest way to get to 200 miles an hour for at least a month of money, Tommy?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think it's probably the new Corvette, so Chevrolet just revealed pricing on the new C8 base model Corvette.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's $73,000 essentially.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the new 6.7 liter small block, and it will just touch 200 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_01]: Funny if you get the Z51 package, which is performance package, it won't do 200 because it's got too much arrow, but if you get the standard car it will, and that is unbelievable that you can now buy a sub $80,000 car that will do 200 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you want to slow one, I think you get to 06 because I think that only sounds like a hundred and ninety or so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe on top speed, that is a slow one.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a slow one, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, if you want to ask when you get to zero one X, I think it goes well over 200 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_00]: But for 73K, to be able to go 200 miles an hour is pretty amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: pretty awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think like other than when the when the GTR came out that thing would do about 200 for about $80,000, but that was 15 years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, so with inflation, I mean it's unreal that you can buy that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Corvette has been kind of creeping up in price as it's gotten long.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it started at 59, 995 when it first launched six years ago, so it's now starts at 73, so it is getting a little bit more expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: but still unbelievable performance for the money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think you want to get the one LT if you want to go to that 200 miles an hour.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got less weight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the, yeah, the base model.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you don't want all of the arrow stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's the 51 gets you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like 198.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about our friends at Auto Tempest because Auto Tempest does something that's really cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to talk about it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so this is the price trends.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can find this at AutoTempis.com slash TFL.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you head on over to AutoTempis, there's this really cool price trans graph and AutoTempis has listings from all over the country and all sorts of different platforms.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the compile is data to see what's happening to the prices of not only core vets, but really any car you can customize it on generation and age and that kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this right now we've got filtered for C8 core vets.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see this is about a thousand listings.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the price trends initially dipped down pretty quickly on the, is this, is this see eight here?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this is CA.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so you did see a little bit of a dip on the price trends, but interestingly, it's been maintaining strong.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I think it's the more expensive new trims came out, like the ZL6 and the R1.
[SPEAKER_01]: The average price of the Corvette you can see it on the graph is actually trending upwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you so like for like a ZL6 or an E-Ray and see what those are doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's e-ray, e-rays are actually turning down, so they start a pretty expensive and they kind of just leveled out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we can do CO6.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what CO6 is the only one we own right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they trended down another remaining kind of flat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the reason they trended down, of course, is because every one of the, you know, the R1.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, they trended down in 2024.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was before.
[SPEAKER_00]: I probably, because everybody who won it would go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Got exactly right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they were, you could see for a while there, the early transactions of 23 were like, look, there was a one for $250,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: So really, really, really big money.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they kind of dipped down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now they're leveling out a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: As a car's kit more expensive, the trend graph is going to go up a little bit too, because that's going to drag at the prices of some of the used ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, as a whole, CA's are not taking as badly as I think a lot of people thought they would be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's why you're going to take everything you watch on TikTok or any of the shorts with the grain of salt, because the only way you're going to get views is if you go out and say, you know, corporate prices are crashing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you come up with the graph like this, so that you cherry pick the numbers.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, cover and if you're not then you're just going to kind of go with what you've read or seen or heard somebody else say it all the sudden You know the narrative becomes the corporate prices are crashing and as you can tell by all the tempest they're not Colt can you do one just for the stingray the base car?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll see what they're doing
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so they had a pretty big decrease there around 23 to kind of like the zeos sixes and then they flattened out in the lowest was 24, but interestingly the price trends are printing up just a little bit on stingray.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the cheapest ones are hovering around $55,000 so coal is hovering over there right now 55 59 58 52 probably LT ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: some of the newer ones are a little bit more expensive.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think that they're just old.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, they're just six years old.
[SPEAKER_01]: But really, if you had bought a Corvette a base one in 2020 for 65, let's say, you're still going to get 55 out of it six years later.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that compared to a lot of new sports cars out there, the C8's are doing pretty well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, Cole, can you do a, let's graph 9-11s?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious to see what they're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So can you do a search for 9-11 if those are, because those are, you know, far and few in between, because they kind of control the supply much more so than Chevy does, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So 9-11 is hard to get to begin with.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really like a Rolex model if you're in the watch role to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's do 2020 or newer, too, Cole, so we can keep it kind of sort of,
[SPEAKER_01]: similar.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, what's cool about this is you can perfectly sort for the the years that you want to filter for, here goes 20, 20, through 27.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, blue is Corvette, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay, that's 2012 to 2016.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so you can see that right around 23, they started to increase in value, and the newer ones are holding strong and actually going up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're looking, they're firing a little bit better than the Porsche's, but you will notice, like there's a big cluster around the three, four, 500,000 dollar range.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a lot of really expensive 911 that are dragging the whole market up like the GT3s, and then there's a big cluster that kind of stays steady around the $100,000 mark, which you're gonna be more of the base cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus is not a good time to be podcasting for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I mean, I can woke up with, well, I'll tell you what happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, our dog lays loves to sleep on the balcony, but I worry about him out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't shut the sliding door because if he needs to go the bathroom or, you know, I think it's done by beer or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to hear him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think he's going to get stung by a bee.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I leave the door open and that means that all the air comes in, which means go ahead.
[SPEAKER_00]: The allergies get kicked up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got to try the floaty stuff, it's on you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Way better than the Zertek that you've been taking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so, you know, plus we've got a lot of force fires right now in Colorado.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the air is not good here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're thinking about coming in Colorado, you're going to see kind of a hazy sky, which is a shame, because we've got beautiful.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got horrible forest fires right now, and so I think that's actually aggravating my allergies as well So I do apologize, but it is what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right, so that's our core vet pricing So you want to know how we can save the menu?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what's your Roman's rant of the week?
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, let's let's bring it back to some news.
[SPEAKER_00]: You heard about the 12-cylindry, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to tell them you want to tell the news?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so there's a this is a very expensive front engine 12 cylinder Ferrari that looks kind of like the old Daytona for the 1970s 60s and They've added a manual transmission to it After people have been complaining about the lack of manuals at auto everything, but it's a really interesting manual because there's a stick, there's three pedals, but it's fully electronically controlled
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're actually using the clutches within the automatic transmission connected to the clutch pedal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it is possible to stall it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you put in the first gear you pop the clutch too much, it will stall it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can shift it normally, you use a clutch to shift it, you go through all the gears.
[SPEAKER_01]: But fundamentally, this still a computer controller that you don't show through all the gears.
[SPEAKER_00]: You only go through six of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got eight gears.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, that's a good point.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an eight speed transmission, but you're only using six of them on the stick.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's a little button, if you want to go and get to the other two, which gives you like a, it's like an overdrive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there isn't fully automatic mode.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can use it like an automatic or you can drive it as a computer-controlled manual.
[SPEAKER_01]: The benefits of this are you can still stall, you can still bog it, you can still rev it, you can still experience the engine, but you can't over-rev it, you can't money-shift it, so if you're like in fourth, you can't go to first.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's ways that they've simulated the manual experience, but I've also put some
[SPEAKER_00]: measures in there so you don't explode the coin.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a game that's shifter which is classic for Ari which is cool but it's all basically by wire so it's three pedals but you're not actually actuating anything mechanical.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with the shift lever you're not actually moving any gears all you're doing is
[SPEAKER_00]: allowing the computer then to shift the dual clutch for you while you feel like you're shifting it with a lever versus a push button or any other way you could do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the good part about that, like you said, is it allows you to shift the car, but the bad part is you kind of feel like you're
[SPEAKER_00]: like it's it's very analogous to what Hyundai does where you put sound and shifts in the car you can make it sound like with the end like any car you want basically on the eb but that's different that's it's a kind of the same thing so you potentially you could you could you could program this transmission to shift like at old and so you know what I'm saying you could have a shift like any old classic Ferrari that you wanted to shift with the engagement point being in a different place
[SPEAKER_00]: with the mechanical feel being reproduced from older cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, but so that's a cool part of what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the difference is, like I do, I do it kind of store to see the analogy, but the difference is the Ferrari, you're not changing the sound of the engine, which you are in the EV.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you can change the feel of that shifter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you're also not replicating, for example, a power band, because you do have a genuine power band from the engine, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like on the EV, you know, you hit the top of the second and the car just stops arbitrarily.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you can certainly replicate the shift points from different cars and you can replicate the gearing from different cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's manual, so that you don't replicate the shift points because you're doing the shift points.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, so you decide when the ship the car, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You are manually controlling that transmission.
[SPEAKER_00]: But by the gears you're selecting, are they're virtual?
[SPEAKER_00]: They're real, in the transmission.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're changing the gears in the transmission.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but it's...
[SPEAKER_01]: So like it is a mechanical system, like a second gear is second gear, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, so let's say in the dual clutch, how at what point does it go from first to second?
[SPEAKER_00]: How many RPM?
[SPEAKER_00]: You get to choose because it's a manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm saying normally in the automatic mode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wait depends on how hard you're accelerating, it depends on if you're going up a hill, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It changes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you could also change that based on however you wanted to shift it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, but that's a manual transmission.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you could also change where the gate from point is for the clutch and how hard, how heavy the clutch is.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could change the field potentially, but you can't change the acceleration.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, for example, on the ionic five end, the car gets slower when you put it in a manual mode.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think my analogy holds up.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can, like, you can.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the gears in the Hyundai are totally fake.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no gears at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a one-speed, the computer's making it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But with this, you could replicate the clutch feel of different cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that's kind of a, like, nobody.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think people are like, oh, I love my Miata because the clutch feel is different than a Challenger, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people are like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think BMW has a certain clutch feel to it versus a Corvette.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not like you have different clutch feels.
[SPEAKER_01]: On the electric car, you can make it sound like a four-cylinder versus a V8 versus a jet plane.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's also different things you can do.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you see what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sort of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is why it's a robot race.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sort of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me keep going.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing I think is going to happen with this is other manufacturers are going to see that this is a cheaper way than actually building a manual because the problem with a manual is first and foremost.
[SPEAKER_00]: it can't handle the power of the engine and so in the past when you've had a manual and let's say a dual clutch, the manual has always had to be detuned right because you couldn't do it so I could see Porsche saying well if for I can do it we can do it to our PDK and they could do the exact same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you're not having to build an entirely separate transmission, which makes it much cheaper for the manufacturers to offer a manual because they'd be like, hey, we can give you this automated manual, which is really what it is when you think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Without actually having to build a manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the purest will be like, hey, this sucks, but the people who love new technology and who love the fact that they can now sort of kind of ship their own car will probably like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually not an automated manual, it's the other way around.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a manually operation automatic, which is kind of crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's already guys doing this now on the current ZF-A speed, that's not everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like a theory, you could take that Wrangler and do the same thing that they're doing on the Ferrari to the Wrangler with a kit that a company's built.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I don't actually hate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's not a terrible solution, especially if you can install the car and if you do for the most part of the complete control of that transmission,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of like, do I care?
[SPEAKER_00]: Control of six gears.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that's what you have in a manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're two others hanging out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're like overdrive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, that's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's this button.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a grand-turing button.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, really ultimately, what does it matter if it's a cable, a hydraulic system, or a wire?
[SPEAKER_00]: you know fundamentally if I can if I have if I genuinely big if I have full control that transmission with the stick well I could say the same thing about exhaust no what is a matter if it's you know enhanced or replicated or completely faked you know as long as it sounds the same you know you can have an electric like that hummy right but they never sound the same that's the problem you right but as technology is better than you will never heard when it does like because you don't get the you don't get the feel right you don't get the speaker just
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that fundamentally a wire can probably replicate a cable just as well, like on a plane, it's all fly by wire, there's no cables or a hydraulic back, back up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but part of the fun of having a manual transmission is, once again, it's controlling the machine.
[SPEAKER_00]: This way, with this, the best you're doing is giving the machine suggestions, but if you can't override it, if you can't money shift it,
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't, and these are not good things, but these are things that make driving a manual challenge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And make it more interesting than just driving an automatic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so basically it's like putting training wheels on a motorcycle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you're starting a motorcycle, but you know, you've got these guard rails and for purists, I think those guard rails are going to be what distinguishes a true manual driving experience from this automated.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me keep going.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not how you save the manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just not how you save the manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: As you know, I've been getting into watches, and you've kind of been getting into them as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I brought this watch today.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a saco prospect called the poll.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me show it to you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you can see it, but maybe maybe call or you can find one online, look for the poll.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what's been happening in the watch world and in the camera world and a lot of different worlds is a lot of the
[SPEAKER_00]: Manufacturers have going back into the 70s into the 80s and finding iconic watches and then recreating them, but not recreating them like Let's say they did with the PT cruiser where you're trying to come with a new design on a retro theme But what they're taking is a watch and you can see them one on the left there.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the original poem
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so that was a mechanical watch, and the reason it's called a poge is because it's after the astronaut who took it into space, and so they took the watch into space, and then that was a traditional watch, it didn't, it was a battery powered, and then Seiko reissued it with what I'm wearing right now, and what they did was they updated it, so what they did was they went from a mechanical movement or an automatic watch to a quartz movement, which is a battery powered watch,
[SPEAKER_00]: They made it solar instead of giving it, you know, the mechanical mechanism to mind it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So why it has a battery, it also has a little sensor where it does recharge the battery using the sun, to change the design.
[SPEAKER_00]: But basically you can tell the heritage of the new one that goes right back to the astronaut who took it to space back and whatever that was in the 70s.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that this is something that the car manufacturers could do and that is bring back iconic names of cars And then give it a modern twist, but do it in such a way that it's not like retro Like the like I select the PT cruiser was like the Thunderbird was right all these really cringey old cars where they basically try to recreate
[SPEAKER_00]: The car that was very iconic, this is like the prelude, except they screwed up the prelude in one important way and that isn't even given a manual, but what you do is you take a classic name like how they do with the prelude, you make it modern, so you don't make it retro, but you make it modern, and then you give it touches of the older and you bring new technology into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not happening at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the Ford Bronco is exactly that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a manual transmission.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's touches of the old with modern technology.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, like another good example of that would be the new element.
[SPEAKER_00]: Apparently, Honda's bringing back the element.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, of course, we were at the Tokyo Motor Show and they're bringing back, I think, the Celica and the MR2.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I mean, this is not a new, like, the Bronco is exactly this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's touches of the old, it's the old name plate.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got reminiscent of the old design without being a retro car.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can still get it with the manual, but so this is how you save the manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: You make these cars manual only and you make them, like they do with the watches and limited numbers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now you have a car that people actually, and when you say, when I say a limited, I don't mean like Jeep does with their drops where there's, you know, the bill is many as they can sell.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you actually do limited number and you make them, you make them
[SPEAKER_00]: Manual so that you have to be able to drive a manual.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know this is controversial because people will be like well No one's gonna buy it because no one knows how to drive a manual the jeweler manual adoption is down to like 2.5% now Yeah, in the last 10 years it's gone from 10% to 2.5% so I think that would create it would be like a halo car And I think it will be willing to pay a lot of money forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would have to be really expensive
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be double the price of like, let's say if they did the prelude like that, instead of being, I think they're $45,000, let's call that a $70,000 car.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's manual, it's got, you know, a nice interior, they're only going to build a thousand of them, and they're all numbered, and there's another trend that's happening right now, which is really popular, and that is one of one, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw it last year at Pebble Beach, everybody wanted a one of one, you should be the only one to have that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think people would pay, and they would pay double that.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... four having a car that is classic uh... that is modern uh... and that is manual and you would only sell these two thusias so i mean that's what friday doing with that twelfth cylindry sort of kind of you uh... and i'd bring that down to like cars week and afforded but the problem is that doesn't the math doesn't matter right like if you're making a thousand preludes at seventy thousand dollars that's not a lot of money that's not on the middle of the road for honda
[SPEAKER_00]: right that's just the the the product margins are there yeah but right now i think what's happening is a lot of car manufacturers i can give i can go down the list are missing a halo car right the car that gets people in the show room the car the creates excitement for the brand i'll give you one Volkswagen Volkswagen and does not have right now a halo car that would be something exciting uh... these are does not have a halo car well had a z the g t r was a little bit here coming back
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but they don't have one right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's coming back, you know, we won't confirm.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying we'll see.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the brands that are struggling the most, I kind of feel like don't have halo cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this could be like a modern twist on what the halo car used to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the past, when you had these halo cars that were extremely expensive and were extremely outside of most people's range, this could be somewhere, you know, halfway to that, and yet be attainable for people who actually were enthusiast and
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's my take I just don't see people buying a hundred and twenty thousand law Pray-lude.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't say hundred I said 80, but they're they can't make money at 80.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah It's not about making money, so it's a lost leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like when you sell milk at the grocery store You know for cheaper so the people come into the grocery store and then buy all the other stuff
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that actually, what's with Halo cars though?
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, but I'm not sure if it's ever really worked with the mainstream filmmakers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's a reason that Honda and Volkswagen don't have Halo cars, and I think that those are companies that are profit-driven, and they're laser-focused.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they're not profit-driven, and whatever they're doing isn't working, because both those brands are in deep trouble.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the same thing, I can give you another example of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: the most classic example is Porsche right now is in deep due to and they don't have a halo card the mission one was going to be their halo card and you know because of electrification they pulled it and right now unlike McLaren unlike you know the old uh one of us at the Holy Trinity uh who's the other one McLaren a missing one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Portion Ferrari Ferrari yeah Ferrari has one the F-80 uh McLaren has won
[SPEAKER_00]: Porsche, no Halo cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got GT3 RS.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those aren't Halo cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are sports cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're $4,000.
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are sports cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think most people have to know what not call those super cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: But listen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Halo cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're in Porsche, like, so you've got a mission X, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that going to sell more macons?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, they don't have a mission X.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if they did, would that sell more macons?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure it would.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people already, Porsche's problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have Porsche doesn't have a buzz problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got plenty of buzz.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're out of the bread.
[SPEAKER_00]: They should tell them they're going to buzz though.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, they're not really the number one card in Instagram.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a GT3.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's more interest in a GT3 than a Lamborghini or for our combined, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They have the buzz.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't, I think I think the Ferrari is the king of buzz right now with the Luce.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's the wrong kind of buzz, maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think those guys have dealt the buzz through the roof dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, by the way, speaking of buzz, there was a story about the luché, which was interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, get this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, people think that, like, I love electric cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just love the truth, and I hate when the truth gets lost with a bunch of Facebook bullshit.
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's another example of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, obviously the luché came out, everybody took a dump on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of don't know, we haven't driven it, but I kind of think it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always like when manufacturers already,
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: You think about that?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you like the cyber truck too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know what the other truck is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like the ELR.
[SPEAKER_00]: But let me think my point here, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what happened in the news cycle.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this thing came out, everybody took a giant dump on it, everybody hated it, and then the story then, for I released a story saying that they had 88 that they were going to sell in China, and that those 88 had been sold out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, and that was the big story right that Ferrari sells out the luché in China and then a new organization I forget who it was right or somebody ended up calling all the Ferrari dealers in China And the Ferrari deals like I have no clue what the hell they're talking about as far as we know people are Ordering these things and so so you know the truth of the matter it turns out was that that was probably a PR stunt on the part of Ferrari to kind of you know Doll the bad news of the luché.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and in the end
[SPEAKER_00]: What ended up happening is that even the Chinese probably aren't exactly excited about it, which is fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: But where we are right now is that is that I think taking this back to where I started.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that if manufacturers were to build manual halo cars that are limited production, one of one sort of kind of... Well, let's say the Gordon Murray T-50.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, okay, good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I just don't get excited, but these companies keep doing these million dollar supercars that have manuals, which is amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then none of us normal people can afford them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I bought this pug for like, it's like, six or another watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's not a 4,000 pound car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but it's a lot easier to make a watch this.
[SPEAKER_00]: This watch is like if you can't get a Daytona, which you can, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Rolex Daytona, because you know, because of the way the allocations work, you can get this and I feel just as good about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like a car, you know, 18,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're right, but that a car.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is a trend.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's right, it's much harder to develop a car than a car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, of course, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that just like I look, I'd love a manual prelude for $20 dollars, but Honda's not going to be able to make money on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not the point of, hey, low cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just, it's a lost leader like I said, you do this because you create excitement and you create buzz and you create interest around the brand.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's why they're also bringing it back to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the problem is that the element.
[SPEAKER_01]: This might issue halo cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Halo cars are great for the 0.1% that can afford them.
[SPEAKER_01]: like I'll never be able to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm talking about an $80,000 prelude, which I think a lot of people will be the first sport.
[SPEAKER_00]: People are jolt laughing at the prelude at $45.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are they going to think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they didn't have to manual if they would say it's 50 percent.
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, what you do with the prelude, I think this would actually work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you make it a manual and you stick a type of origin into it?
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't pussy foot around, you just don't do the suspension, you do the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now it becomes like the in type R to have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it wouldn't be necessarily, keep in mind, we're looking at this from two generational points of view, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're in the point of your life where you're saving money.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in the point of my life where I'm spending money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, but so for me, an $80,000 trailer that harkens back to my youth, which is where I bought one, you know, back in the 80s, that to, I'm seriously, that to me is money that I would spend because it would bring back nostalgia, it would bring back, you know, those youthful days when, you know, I wasn't worried about like, you know, you have to go to the doctor for stupid ass allergies.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'd be willing to spend the 80s.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then you call it an insects.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that'd be like doing a $100,000 Volkswagen Beetle, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The whole point of the prelude is it was an affordable two-door sporty car, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the genesis of the prelude, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you could do that with an NSX, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's why they didn't work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they also screwed it up, but...
[SPEAKER_01]: And it also wasn't that it was that that would the other sex was just a modern car with an old name on it Yeah, they didn't actually, you know, but I think like brands like Pralood Beetle Mustang right I'm not sure that they work as 500,000 cars as I think maybe Ford is figuring out Must you can't do Mustang you got to break people it can't be a car that's been around.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be something cool
[SPEAKER_01]: That's around.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, it had to have gone away and you have to bring the name played back.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be a cool name played back there.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's javelin, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You could bring back something like Kuda.
[SPEAKER_00]: A Kuda?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: You make a modern version of a Kuda.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: That would be better than pre-lude, maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not talking about, the Mustang isn't going to work, because they've done everything you can with the Mustang, including making a mock version of it that's electric with people hate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you guys want to call an ASCUS, what car you should buy?
[SPEAKER_00]: The number is 7203105435.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've got the phone right here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see if somebody calls 7203105435.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll be able to ask you carbine question or anything else that you want to ask us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll see if somebody ends up calling, Tommy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the problem is I think we're doing it at 9.30 on a Tuesday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is a problem, but the reason for that and being quite honest is because we have to go and do a lot of videos today so we can pay the bills and the podcast does actually not make does not make much money, in fact it makes hard to anybody and so we do this for as a passion project and so
[SPEAKER_00]: If you guys want to support us like the Patrons, that's a great way to keep this podcast rolling, but until this thing actually helps us pay the rent, we don't have the bandwidth to actually do this the way that it deserves to be done.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're kind of doing it on the download.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so some garbage that are on the office, we just had the new E53 Mercedes station wagon and we'll talk about 600 horsepower in a Ford or station wagon.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a really cool car.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that it's a little bit fussy, but this is a car we're talking about cars built for enthusiasts.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, non-adduceous is asking for 600 horsepower oil drive wagon, but Mercedes is doing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought it was such a cool thing that this is still a car that exists in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's an unbelievable driving experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a perfect mixture of feel special and exciting to drive, but without beating you up on a hard road.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was just such a nice car to drive too much screen though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's got the hyperscreen, which is basically a screen that goes across the entire dashboard from driver side to passenger side.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like three screens in one, but I'm so done with screens right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, funny, here's a funny question.
[SPEAKER_00]: You asked me if I wanted to drive it home last night.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we were getting rid of it this morning, it was my last chance to drive because I was on vacation last week and I was like, I looked inside, I saw the screen and I just couldn't do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's not actually that bad though.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, MVUX, I think, is a pretty simple, easy-to-use system with that, that actually makes sense in the voice assistant is also very, very useful.
[SPEAKER_01]: So...
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it drives so nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I do think you missed a cool opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you have to think at all?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it is such a great mix of hybrid and internal combustion.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't sound like much.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the only issue with the inline sexist really, but I think that this car would have been right up your alley because it's got
[SPEAKER_01]: 40-ish miles of all electric range.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe 50 if you're nice to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you've got the in line six for when the battery dies and when you put them together it becomes an absolute beast of acceleration.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have that biplane steering wheel already making me nervous.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's got too many controls.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got to embrace new technology here that this is coming from someone who's 95 years old at heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know I love new technology but look I mean look look at all those there's like 28 functions on that steering wheel not to mention the little rotary dial which changes you know suspension and the how can you like the cyber truck but not like screens cyber truck doesn't have a single button on the inside but the cyber truck has a very intuitive layout so it's actually very easy to control stuff
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas most Germans in the schools back to the very first eye drive, it's like the difference between Apple and it's called Microsoft, right, where it's very customizable if you're kind of in the Microsoft world on computers or in the Android world, but with Apple, they just make stuff easy and intuitive and like I said, this is not intuitive for mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thinking okay fair enough that's that but the car is cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I I think that Long roofed cars that are low basically station wagons are always going to be Really good looking and really attractive and I I kind of feel like it's your generations fault That nobody's buying station wagons anymore
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is my generation?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you're the people that we had to put into the SUVs that dominate the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think that objectively for most people, the SUV makes more sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: You get more ground clearance.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's easy to get in and out of.
[SPEAKER_01]: You get a better view out the front, which I think is a big deal for a lot of folks.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you're a little bit weird and a little bit different, there is nothing like a really, really, really fast-dation way.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is such a cool car to drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've really enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Other car we have at the office around this week is the Toyota Sienna.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you got to take that off-road.
[SPEAKER_01]: On accident, I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to air drop you the clip here, Cole.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mary didn't do a great job.
[SPEAKER_01]: I went paddleboarding with Mary, remember Mary at the office, and case, and she filmed me leaving the beach.
[SPEAKER_01]: But so we took a paddleboarding.
[SPEAKER_01]: She didn't do a great job of filming the, this is our old videographer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because she missed the action part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Very.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't find the... Where's Mike?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where did the clip go?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not missing much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, imagine a Sienna driving over like a rough beach.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't find it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't find it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where I went.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't it weird how like stuff like that disappears?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like disappeared here.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's even a search function.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you could search for Mary?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just not in the group chat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it should be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you download it into your photos?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um... Geez, I really don't know where I went.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll check my photos, maybe I saved it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyways, there's this rough rocky beach that we would drive in over.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there it is, I got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Sienna woodland, I thought, was a little bit of like a silly concept, because it's only about a half inch taller than the normal Sienna.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't really have anything else, so it's got some, like.
[SPEAKER_01]: black wheels and some maybe off-road quote looking tires isn't it raised a little bit half an inch okay so it's just a little bit higher but the beach was pretty rough and I used every bit of the ground close it didn't actually scrape on anything and it did great so like at the bottom of the beach you can see there's a rangler there's a rangler there's a foreigner there are a whole bunch of lifted trucks and then there was the mighty sienna woodland look at it go look at it traverse the rough terrain there you go so what did she miss what action
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there was this hill climb I had to do where I got it up on the sense of two wheels at the end here, where no other minivan dared to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I did a real life slip test.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got the rear axle engaged, the front axle going, and it just walked right up, and it was very, very impressed with the Sienna Woodland.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what a machine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Talk about a comfortable experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want a comfortable card, we've driven around in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Forget the S class, forget the seven series, the Sienna Woodland.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got
[SPEAKER_01]: of Lager.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here I am champion of the station wagon and you're there pushing for the...
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's probably the mini van.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like it's the most useful machine on the market, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing better for moving things or people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I noticed you have been driving it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has been parked up at the ranch all weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I've been moving things around cars.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You needed the power wagon yesterday.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if we didn't need it, you would be driving.
[SPEAKER_00]: You always should be your big driver.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be driving around everywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: 35 MBG, 245 horsepower, and all wheel drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it, I mean, so do you think this is something that like Honda is going to also add to its arsenal of trail sports?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think there's going to be a trail sport?
[SPEAKER_00]: I bet they will.
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem is like I would love to see, do you remember there was a concept a while back with Chrysler and carnival and offrody carnival Do you remember the Chrysler offrody concepts from last year?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, where they give it like a two-inch lift and they give it all to rain It's called the black bear or grizzly bear or something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, that phone number is if you want to ask us any There's no one watching that you can see There's zero people watching
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that's the problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look the parents current watchers is zero I don't think it's going to call it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't think it's going to call so we're going to keep talking about minibans This is this is what happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if you guys don't call them all show based on the virtues of only a miniband
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the minivan, the Chrysler one had two inches of ground clearance and real tires and underbody protection.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Toyota doesn't have that, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It just is like a little bit taller because of the bigger tires.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think like if they actually genuinely committed to a TRD minivan, it would be really, really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the only thing that gets people in SUVs is they sit taller than TRD minivan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, why not TRD offroats the end?
[SPEAKER_01]: Or if you just go to your approach, that would be even better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because the reason people buy SUVs is they sit a little bit taller and they look a little bit lower.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are those Chevy's call that are the off-road bands?
[SPEAKER_00]: The Astros, the four wheel drive Astros?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, not the Astros.
[SPEAKER_00]: The classic, the ones that were lifted and looked bad-ass with big tires.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the Savannah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people would buy the heck out of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think Christ is going to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if they're going to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they really?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the black bear or whatever it's called.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they're not going to do it right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're going to put a little bit of black trim on it and they're going to lift it half an inch like the like the Toyota.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I need like two inches of lift, all print tires, skid plates, and cool graphics down the side.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I genuinely think people would buy that.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, speaking of that, there's another vehicle that we just got in and we're going to hand us until, uh, well, three months.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a long term for us and that is a new Honda pilot trail sport, which, you know, kind of can substitute as a mini van because it is a three-row and it is lifted and it is all those things that you said.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm looking for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you been in the thing yet?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little old feeling, so like the interior, which is actually not a bad thing because it has buttons.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this is a bunch of stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, uh, it does feel a little bit dated and I would love a hybrid option.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's got the 3.5 liter Honda V6.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just a basic simple, easy to drive SUV.
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem is I love that in the ridge line, because I feel like some of the trucks are just way over the top.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it in the passport, because I feel like that's supposed to be a simpler vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the pilot, I could use just a little bit more tech on.
[SPEAKER_01]: to make it feel a little bit more modern in terms of the power train, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a hybrid pallet, I think, would be the perfect sweet spot or even a plug-in hybrid.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you do want the easiest car to use on the market, this is definitely that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think they sold like 60,000 last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is refreshed obviously, so it's got a little bit of a different nose.
[SPEAKER_00]: Different nose, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: A little bit more, it's a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything's got a little bit more like square and boxy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which I think it looks good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think the defender actually set that Jerry McGovern over at JLR, set the language.
[SPEAKER_00]: And before we got unceremonially wounded from the company, but he has been a pretty significant force in design.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're seeing it in the Santa Fe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now you're seeing it in the pilot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a lot of these cars have gone from being kind of rolly-polly to being much more square-jong.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think that they've done a really good job with making it a little bit more butch and the transport gives you better tires, a little bit of an underbody protection.
[SPEAKER_01]: It gives you a coverage point, hidden underneath, which is very cool, standard hitch, although no wiring as we've found out.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I love the color on this one, the sage green looks fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that the pilot, it's an underrated vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that the trail support, probably one of the most capable in the class other than the Grand Cherokee.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's put your money where your mouth is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give it the choice between this and this Sienna, which would you buy?
[SPEAKER_00]: by the Sienna.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that if you're already looking for practical car, but this you can actually do some serious light off-roading.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well as the Sienna.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm going up that beach with a spot as serious.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is really a much better beach car for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: You wouldn't attack that.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think that like the problem is, if I want to carry people, I want to carry as many people as comfortably as possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would get this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise you're buying a Fiat 124 spider.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the other option.
[SPEAKER_01]: But um,
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think that they've done a really good job with this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we've got the direct competitor to this is the long term loan, too, which is the Palisade XRT.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that the Palisade is a better looking car overall.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to tack in the Palisade more.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually like the engine in the Honda a little bit better.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the room in the Hyundai might be a little bit better.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it'll be an interesting to put inside my side and see what they're like to live with, and we'll do a whole bunch of comparisons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I kind of like the Honda better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, I just feel like it's a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, Honda's having a moment, I mean, have you seen that?
[SPEAKER_00]: The CRV has now officially become the best selling car in America.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's overtaken the event.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but Ford on, that's because it's a new RA4.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a transition year.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, this is, this is, uh...
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not fully out yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, that's the reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people have been talking to you, said Honda's kind of struggling, actually other than CRV.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not sure they don't, I thought they're doing really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they're struggling.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I think they're actually selling cars Surprisingly well, and I think it's because Honda like you said at the very beginning of your review of the Pilot is still doing very analog cars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know if you watch top here the
[SPEAKER_00]: The rub against Hondo is always that it was bought by old people, but now I think a lot of people are appreciating the analog nature of the vehicles.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can play.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that the manufacturers have been, I don't know, Tommy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was listening to our friends every day driver.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they were talking about, you saw this, they were talking about the new X5.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, it's got those little winglets for the doors.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the guys is a designer and he was saying how clean down looks because you basically make the door look much taller, so the car looks taller and you get rid of like that rub strip and as a designer it just looks much cleaner than had that and I keep thinking to myself that is the most stupid design I've seen for door handle ever and then this is more like a Roman Rat now and that includes it in the Mach-E and that includes it in the new Volvo EX60 which also has those little winglets for door handles basically it's like a little winglet with a button
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, instead of actually grabbing something and opening up the door and with the BMW if you get what the upper trim It actually opens the door automatically so you don't even have to like pull on it But it just looks so stupid and I get it if you're a designer you you're you're you know promoting the fact But there are so many things now that people customers hate with the passion we got a phone call.
[SPEAKER_00]: We do not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay So excited someone just said hello.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: They hello back
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, there's so many things from, you know, vents that are controlled by the screen, from missing door handles, you know, from, uh, headlights that are now in the screen that people just hate with the burning fashion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have never heard as much vitriol about these things except for maybe stop start and you have to manufacture or seem to be completely deaf and just pushing and pushing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Completely right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not listening to the customers.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do have some comments on patreon.com slash tf of car for the podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Check them out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jonathan says a time you're a good paddle boarder.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not even know you had legs and car out of.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't have many.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm not going to tell you the story.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's not car-ish.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you check out the latest episode of cars, you can hear my paddle boarding.
[SPEAKER_00]: Extravaganza time you had a little issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, Elliot says, uh, what's your deal with built-in vacuum in cars?
[SPEAKER_01]: I love a good built-in vacuum in a car.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, this Yena, no vacuum, which is devastating.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, um, yeah, I think a vacuum can happen here then.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that was the Odyssey.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I learned I was first with that, if you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's certainly the Pacific Cup.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, it's the Pacific Cup.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think I know it was the first.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is optional in the Toyota as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about, let's just talk about what makes minivan geniques.
[SPEAKER_00]: So don't go, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That was pioneered by the Pacific Cup.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then vacuum came up by the Odyssey, who did that little camera inside the car where you could like y'all the kids in the background?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, who did that first?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't of course, Paul will drive that's I think Sienna's for Will Drive, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we'll drive, yeah, but a bunch of them have been in the hybrid of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hi, Brits.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so lots of innovation in the Whenever there's there's you know huge market and I think there's there's a lot of demand You're gonna see innovation in these companies for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the other comment before we wrap the song I think we're good all right, and just want to thank our patrons
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, and auto tempest.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to support us, it really helps us to go to auto tempest.com slash TFL specifically.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really really appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then patreon.com slash TFL car.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you're interested in trucks, you've got to head on over and see the truck show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Talking trucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Andre got to drive the new TRX.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty exciting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then video is out now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you know, can you tell the difference?
[SPEAKER_00]: with 75 more horsepower.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was my big question.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to know the answer to that, or if you want to see the jump to the truck and then over to altfl.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we're going to be doing a lot of off-roading.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're probably watching this, you're going to be hopefully watching some off-road reviews with our new brand, or you would go up red code with it, which is probably one of the second, I'm going to call it the second best trail that
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot of like serious operating coming up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to have me tomorrow is our record They help lead up the air and we'll clear a little bit so that my allergies Or it is miserable.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you then.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah