[SPEAKER_02]: You are listening to the newly reprended Fire Braslow podcast presented by the Bassers of Boston Baseball.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm your host Jason Kelly, I've got Matt and Terry alongside.
[SPEAKER_02]: The winning streak is over, Red Sox lose to the Nationals 8-1 the final.
[SPEAKER_02]: and lots of drama in this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wilson Contreras gets ejected for the second game in a row.
[SPEAKER_02]: This time for a just cause and Connelly early leaves the game early with elbow tightness.
[SPEAKER_02]: So pretty much bad news all around not just at the winning streak yet snap, but
[SPEAKER_02]: some off the field stuff that we're going to address as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's start with just probably the most exciting part of this entire game, which was the Benches Clearing Brawl early on.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll sing contraris gets punched out by Kate Cavali.
[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, struck out 13 Red Sox tonight.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think he struck out double digits of anyone all season long, but he come to Fenway Park.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what you get to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Cavali strikes him out.
[SPEAKER_02]: He says something to contraris contraris.
[SPEAKER_02]: flips out and benches clear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Contreras tries to throw us helmet out them.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a complete mess.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Matt, I'll lead you off.
[SPEAKER_02]: How'd you feel about the brawl that's you about contreras getting injected yet again?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'll restart and see you patterned here with this guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, oddly enough, the last time I was on the pod, we discussed another Benches currently clearing Brawl.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to call it that, when Contreras was right in the center of that, look, he's a fiery guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've seen it time and time again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the initial reaction was justified, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Cavalry saying what he said, sounded like, you know, sit down, boys is what the consensus is so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was dealing, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: He was in a groove.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was out there competing and we couldn't touch him But yeah, you know, it comes out punches him out says something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Contrars perks up kind of you talking to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I'm okay with that, but honestly in that situation You cannot get thrown out of the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: He lost his school through his helmet.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think even if he just started walking to him
[SPEAKER_01]: Ventures clear there's an opportunity there to make his statement on the reaction that hey those comments aren't cool and him still not getting ejected from the game but look the fact of the matter is we're playing the best baseball that we've been playing all season five game winning streak the offense is not out of the clear in my opinion right the offense is still one of the worst in the league
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're one of our best hitters, if not our best hitter right now, Contreras.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you get ejected yesterday, and then today, I'll be at, hey, Cavali, probably shouldn't have said what he was what he said.
[SPEAKER_01]: As a competitor, I totally understand where Contreras is coming from.
[SPEAKER_01]: I probably would have reacted in a similar manner, right, but
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, you're a professional, you're a veteran, you've got to keep your cool there and stay in the ball game, especially when it's only one nothing at that point.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know how you make a statement is you look at him and you say, okay, you shake your head, you go back to the bench.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you get up again, you put a ball over the monster.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how you make your statement.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't throw a tantrum and throw your helmet out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't help our team get a chance to win and then we have we're stuck with Ministerio the rest of the game who you know, I don't think it matters much but a ball got by him later in the game that Wilson probably gets defensively so look I know he's odd head we know what we've got with him now with all the braels and all the benches clearing that we've seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: One interesting thing before I let you get into it Terry was I saw Seagler kind of being the one
[SPEAKER_01]: well that's interesting right on one hand is seegler just this young leader and i have some thoughts on him able get to him later in the pod but is he just a young leader who's there to be able to come him down and come out come down the wily veteran or is it that everybody else in the clubhouse is tired of Wilson's antics and seegler being the newest guy to the roster is the only one you know willing to get near him and willing to kind of be his buddy and have his back there.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one thing that I noticed towards the end of that brawl that had me kind of scratching my head and maybe both are true, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe seegler is a young leader and that is a rest of the team is sick of Wilson's antics, but look, I like the fire, I like him getting the team juiced up, but you cannot get through another ballgame in that situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to get him back, you know, you go hit the ball hard, you're next that bad against him.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how you get him back there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm starting to think that Wilson contraris is a big enough meathead to get himself ejected from like ending two of a world series game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's the level of emotional stability.
[SPEAKER_00]: He seems to have, you know, and Cade Cavali is a career 4.42 ERA guy, not a whole
[SPEAKER_00]: He hasn't been there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He hasn't done that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He hasn't been a horse through a, you know, a deep October, you know, the guy's done nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I don't know where he gets off doing that, but if you're Wilson contraris and you think you're basically the leader of the Boston Red
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got to look at it like you've won eight out of your last 11, including your last five in a row.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're desperately trying to get this team back into contention here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we were what four games out of a wild card, something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were nine games under 500 after being as far as 15 under 500.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you gotta keep your eye on the prize and you need to be an effective leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tonight, you got yourself tossed from a game that was one to one.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was on the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a winnable game.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the tide turned towards the nationals after the ejection.
[SPEAKER_00]: bad awareness of the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, he needs to get it together and unfortunately, I don't think there's anybody on this team that can rain him in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it seems like it's his team right now, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: He is the veteran, I think maybe the only guy with more seniority in the lineup would be probably story who obviously has been on the I.L.
[SPEAKER_01]: First quite some time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, I know he's been dealing with the issues from his home country, Venezuela, and that the earthquake impacted a community very close to his.
[SPEAKER_01]: So totally understand that his tensions are right in high, but
[SPEAKER_01]: Jason, you open with it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The first and only guy in Red Sox history to get tossed back to bad games.
[SPEAKER_01]: Last night was probably unjustified, but it happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And look, you got to keep your emotions in check.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the highest level.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, what if this was a super important game and not just a game late in June, right, Terry?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, look, I just at this point,
[SPEAKER_01]: will take what we're getting offensively and defensively from the player.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, he's a bit of a loose cannon and you almost don't know what's going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of wonder and you know, have a little bit of concern of the impact that it has on the younger players, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, Sigler was the only guy there coming him down.
[SPEAKER_01]: So maybe the other guys are, I don't know, either tired of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: tired of his antics or maybe quite frankly a little afraid a little scared to get near him right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what the case is.
[SPEAKER_01]: A brave of course was consoling him yesterday when he was all fired up after his home run, but look, if you are the leader of the team and you want to be the leader of the team, well, the best way to help your team is by playing inside those lines.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't do that from the locker room.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, it's unfortunate because yeah, the tide definitely shifted the momentum, which we had the lead at the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: One nothing I believe, but the momentum was already in the national's hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cavali was dealing.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was dialed in practically all night.
[SPEAKER_01]: Seagullet off with that double and that was pretty much it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't get a hit or a bass run, I think until the, the eighth inning.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, the, the offense came crashing back down dirt.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was more of
[SPEAKER_01]: the Red Sox of 2026 that we've seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, to your point, Terry, we had a chance though.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were in that ball game, despite early going down.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know we'll get in him in a minute, but I like the fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Cavali should have said what he said, but he was in the zone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think he was coming at Contreras personally.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if he struck out anybody, and was just in a groove like that, and said something like that, it just happened to be Contreras.
[SPEAKER_01]: And look, you got to keep a cooler head than that, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: We need your offense.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it would have made any difference the way unraveled late in the game there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I ended up going down 8 to 1.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the final score was, but look, two close there and yeah, not Red Sox record that I think you want your name associated with getting tossed back to back games.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, first Red Sox ever to get tossed in consecutive games, Carl Everett played for the Red Sox.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like we've employed some real dirt bags in our history.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's yeah, you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not a stat you want to attach to your name real quick Jason.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because that was the first name that came to my mind when I heard on the broadcast that contraris was the first guy I just thought Everett was the first one.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was, you know, he was a real jerk that played for us.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a mental case.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so look, I think two things can be true here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Cavali, what he said initially, you know, you know, that's going to draw a reaction, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think something else had to have been said when they went out to the mound and they met.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right when the scrum first happened because contraris just went out there just sort of in like you talked to me like what what do you why you call me out like I think contraris is happy just kind of getting his face a little bit Leave it at that something else must have been said because he ripped off his helmet and wanted to go head hunting
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I don't know if we'll find out what was said in that scrum or who said it or what, but either way, you're right about contraris, like, this is kind of why I pushed back on people saying that he's the leader of this team.
[SPEAKER_02]: He is by default because you don't have any other veteran presence right now, Trevor stories on the shelf, Breggman's gone, you know, it can't be a picture because the only play every five days.
[SPEAKER_02]: but Wilson Contreras is not a leader.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's just not.
[SPEAKER_02]: He never has been.
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't with the Cubs and he clearly wasn't with the Cardinals.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Cardinals were hoping he could become that.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were hoping that when they signed him that he would be the veteran presence that he would help guide the young guys that had come up with the system and he's just not that guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he is a fiery personality and you know, he can get the team fired up when things are going
[SPEAKER_02]: He can bring your team down to the absolute depths of hell because the Red Sox came into the night on a five game winning streak and I tweeted out like, if you get past some nationals, send it a rose on the table because you got the angels this weekend.
[SPEAKER_02]: They stink like you could absolutely sweep them.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this Red Sox team was on a high, like, for the first time this season, like that Yankees series really injected some life back into this team and quite frankly back into the fan base too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Fenway was rocking this weekend.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they were finally getting people reinvested and then contrires has to go and start a brawl like this and I get it, like, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you've kept out of your head under a rock to not know what will contraris and other Venezuelan players are going through right now Okay, I mean we all saw the emotion from him on Monday night right the national saw that too So it's not like, you know, they can say oh, we didn't know like it unless you're really completely ignorant You know what he's going through so you know that he's you know, it's easy to trigger him right now
[SPEAKER_02]: So clearly, he said something that got him going, but it's just no excuse at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, your team is on a winning streak like you've got to compose yourself because, I mean, what every time a pitcher says something to you now, we're going to worry about you charging the mound and, you know, causing a brawl and getting yourself rejected when, you know, you're the best hitter on the team.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll give you the number nine hitter where, okay, we're going to afford to lose you.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it just gets tiring, like, again, when things are going really well, Wilson Contreras is a great guy to have on your team, because he's the emotional guy, and, you know, gets everyone fired up, but as you saw tonight, when things don't go that way, this is where you can see why Wilson Contreras has an exactly stayed on many teams for very long.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[SPEAKER_02]: He tends to outstay as welcome, wherever he goes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, obviously, you know, we'll see what happens with them with the trade deadline coming up with the red socks aside to do there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, things like this can't keep happening because it's just going to keep hurting the team.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was funny to watch Chad Tracy go at it with the empires and, um, you know, because we haven't had chances to see that and you don't really see it much any more anyway, because now that you have the strike challenge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that you have instant replay on the bases.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's been around a little while, but
[SPEAKER_00]: you know technology is really eliminated a lot of the arguments so that this was a situation where he had to argue and the funny thing was was Tracy's not imposing at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's this scrawny skinny guy that I can't even describe it but it's not like
[SPEAKER_00]: you know like Aaron Boone gets fired up like Aaron Boone's a guy I wouldn't want to cut off in a Walmart parking lot just because it would be an uncomfortable scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, a Mike social type guy, you know, he's a big, imposing guy, Terry Francona would get fired up, you know, John Farrell as well, actually, John Farrell was a big guy, but just to see Tracy try to do it, I was like, uh, and they were, you know, trying to explain anything, everything, and I don't like the process by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, just make your decisions and then talk to the, then talk to the managers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't don't have a trial on camera in front of everybody and turn it into like a 20 minute thing like it was, you know, just they don't owe the managers an explanation before they make their decisions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think, but Tracy was was arguing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you look at the three ejections,
[SPEAKER_00]: it was the three players that got physical and I think if Wilson doesn't throw his helmet, he probably stays in.
[SPEAKER_00]: but he threw his helmet, and then you had Nate Eaton and Nicholas, however you say, at Michael S, you know, they were playing physical patty cakes at the edge of the brawl.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they got tossed too, and you know, they were complaining about Cade Cavaleves loud being loud to stay in, but he didn't, he didn't give physical.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that I think that was the difference.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing too is could there be suspensions now?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do we lose Wilson for another one to three games?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, is there a rule?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it like a technical foul rule in the NBA, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where you get ejected for multiple games in a week?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to be, you could be facing a suspension.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Nicholas, it was a weird little tustle there between him and Ian.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe Nicholas was just mad that we got to him for five runs yesterday, and he just wanted to get some aggression out himself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, like I said before, I think he probably could have got away with the couple steps to the mound.
[SPEAKER_01]: You talking to me and yeah, Brent just Benches cleared and he's probably a lot of staying in the game, but certainly when you throw your helmet in the manner in which he did, it wasn't like he slammed it to the ground.
[SPEAKER_01]: He threw it as hard as he could, uh, over the pile of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looked to me like maybe the catcher said something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even think he was trying to throw his helmet at Cavali there.
[SPEAKER_01]: It looked like he was trying to throw it at, uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, look, he's sensitive right now for sure and I think most people would have his back right Well, he's going through with his community's culture back home, but at the end of the day
[SPEAKER_01]: The best way you can have your team is by being out there on the field and I don't think he helped our team out by getting tossed tonight.
[SPEAKER_01]: So hopefully he doesn't face any suspension because we still need to bat in the line up.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll still we'll still need all the leadership we can get, you know, you can't just make up veteran presence in the locker room there and he's one of the most senior guys that we have.
[SPEAKER_01]: So whether we like it or not, he's our guy, we need him for right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think unfortunately a suspension is probably coming because I think there's got to be some rule that if you throw any piece of equipment Directed at another player.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's that suspension.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or you can't be doing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So whether Wilson, you know, Men to hit anyone with it or not that the intent, you know, like he's still through his helmet.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's probably an automatic suspension.
[SPEAKER_02]: It might just be a gamer too.
[SPEAKER_02]: So now you're not gonna have your best hitter in the lineup for potentially another two games that you should be winning I mean, this national team is not bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they they came in over five hundred They're in a you know competitive league, but this is a team you should be beating These are you know parts of the schedule where as bad as your season has been you should be able to make up some ground against teams like Washington and the angels and Now your own players are getting themselves ejected and like I said probably suspended in contours is case
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, actually it's a great point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just thinking of Bryce Harper when he threw his helmet way back in San Francisco.
[SPEAKER_01]: I googled it real quick.
[SPEAKER_01]: He received a four game suspension right later reduced to three, but that seems to be the precedent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we could be we're probably looking at a multi game suspension on top of his behavior this year, right, the benches.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the socks have benches cleared at least four maybe five times the season, which is
[SPEAKER_01]: a little crazy considering we've been at the bottom of the league most of the season so you know you kind of wonder what we're fighting about all this time but he's just at the center of it each and every time and yeah i i think he's after looking at this with the harbour incident we're we're most likely looking at a suspension i would say
[SPEAKER_00]: He'll be able to appeal it, so I would imagine he'll be in tomorrow's line up and perhaps or actually there might be an off day, I think Thursday's an off day, so he'll play tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chris Cattillo just tweeted out the Red Sox have designated Tommy Caneley for a
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I saw that he was DFA, and I guess Alec Gambo is on his way up, so obviously I've already made a roster move on the pitching side, and maybe more to come because the other bad news that came out of this game Connelly Early leaving the game after four innings with elbow tightness, so obviously he's probably going to have to get some imaging done, and Red Sox might have to scramble to make some roster moves, but yeah, we've lost Connelly Early
[SPEAKER_02]: early in this game, how do you enough?
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, elbow tightness, not something you want to hear, so we might be looking at an IL strip for Connelly early, so Matt, how do you feel about if he has to go on the IL, what moves they can possibly make here?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so just for starters, I'm bummed early has been, I've been a huge fan of him honestly since his debut last year versus the A's, how could you not be with the performance of the think he struck out 11 in his major league debut and he's just always a pleasure to watch out there, gets into some trouble, but kind of makes it exciting, gets it gets out and I just always saw him as a quality starting pitcher in this league, so I'm bummed as a fan, but yeah, it left the game I believe with left elbow discomfort,
[SPEAKER_01]: is what they said on the broadcast, which is never good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm certainly keeping my fingers crossed over here, hoping it's just a precautionary thing, and he doesn't miss too much time, I guess we'll await the imaging and we'll wait for confirmation on what the medical imaging says, but yeah, I really hope he's not down for an extended period time.
[SPEAKER_01]: he's been one of the few bright spots of the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean certainly him and Toli right are kind of bash bros of young starting lefties there.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you were to tell me one of those guys was going to get hurt.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have told you Toli definitely would get hurt before early.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean he was cruising.
[SPEAKER_01]: Got into some jams.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were some bass runners but he added some double plays.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that last better he faced was a double play right to get out of the inning.
[SPEAKER_01]: we didn't see much to happen and then the bench is cleared and then they were talking about it looked like early it was coming out of the game the guy was warming up in the bullpen so I really hope he doesn't miss an extended period time because yeah if he does right who replaces him in the rotation
[SPEAKER_01]: the rotation has been one of the few bright spots on our team.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were in line.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he was cruising and probably going to get our 13th straight quality start.
[SPEAKER_01]: He went four innings, no runs, some base runners there, but I think he could have got six innings in.
[SPEAKER_01]: and got that quality start number for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know who comes up, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Does that mean Bayo gets a call back up?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we already have Jake Bennett up there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Crochet, we don't really know when he's coming back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would really love and update on when he might come back.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it turns up to be, we get Crochet back and then early goes down for a little bit and we're kind of back where we started in terms of still have a good five-man rotation, but
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, at this point, I'm just fingers crossed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, a lot has gone wrong for us this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: So wouldn't be surprised if everything just continues to go wrong for us, but maybe we're able to dodge a bullet and it doesn't end up being a serious thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess what to wait for the imaging to come back.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it doesn't look good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anytime you leave the game, non-contact, we didn't see what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: left elbow discomfort.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it doesn't sound good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to keep my fingers crossed.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the best I can do at this point, but hopefully it's not too long.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was kind of a surprise.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, the ending ended.
[SPEAKER_00]: Red Sox came up and then Danny Coulomb was warming in the pen, so, you know, nothing obvious on the mound.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess if you want to be an optimist, you can say, well, it did happen between innings and it didn't happen on an ugly pitch and then he left the mound with a trainer.
[SPEAKER_00]: But every time I try to read the tea leaves, it ends up being a worst case scenario within the next.
[SPEAKER_00]: handful of days or weeks.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but it does.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would guess it's probably an automatic, I'll stint, even if it's precautionary, even if the news is encouraging.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think they're just going to trot them out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in a handful of days,
[SPEAKER_00]: you've got options.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like Patrick's and evolves one more start away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nesson pointed out that he's only been stretched out to 70 pitches.
[SPEAKER_00]: So perhaps in this next rehab start, you know, he'll go beyond that and then be ready, you know, roughly 10 days.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Saturdays is next start.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it'd be five days after Saturday, but, but then of course you have Brian Bale,
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... who hasn't pitch terribly but hasn't really lit it up either he's made three starts down in Worcester uh... he's uh... hasn't pitched beyond five innings and actually in two of those three starts hasn't made it through five full innings but um... he hasn't given up more than three earned runs in any of those starts either so
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if if you want to make that move because I feel like if you call bail up, you have to leave him up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you have to commit to him in other words, and I don't know that that's the best thing in our interest or the best thing in his interest, but it's going to be interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say this one last thing for our kick at the Jason.
[SPEAKER_00]: have an elbow issue between totally and early.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have bet totally all day long.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dude throws mostly fastball variants.
[SPEAKER_00]: His velocity is so inconsistent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some starts, it's up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some, it's two or three miles an hour lower.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I constantly, early, just seems pretty disciplined and very consistent.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, his delivery looks okay to me, but yeah, kind of a shocker to see him go through this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's a scary part, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there's still a chance that Payton's totally could get injured, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously, you hope it doesn't happen, but for both these guys, this is the most, you know, mostly pitched at the big league level in their entire careers.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, those innings are starting to pile up now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, we weren't expecting to have these guys in the rotation for the entire season, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: They're supposed to kind of
[SPEAKER_02]: be guys that came up later on, but you've had to lean on them a lot and because your bullpen has been like great, you've also had to lean on them and go deep into games.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, these two have thrown a lot of pitches more so than I think, anyone expected them to, you know, in 2026.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, it's scary because Peyton told me, I agree, like with the velocity, which is, you know, the sort of
[SPEAKER_02]: the way he pitches, just coming like, you know, charging out of the gates, stolen a hundred, you know, the first couple of innings, and then the velocity kind of going down as the game goes on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like to me, that's the guy that's going to have a shoulder problem at some point, it's like he's going to have a weak shoulder or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, it could start to get a little ugly here if, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: early's got to go on the I.L.
[SPEAKER_02]: which I agree he probably will if nothing else just set a precaution because this guy's part of your future you don't want to mess around with that and frankly your team's out of it so you know that this many winning streak was great and everything but the reality is you're pretty much still out of it so you know don't force him on the map when you don't have to um
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, you know, Toli is still a candidate to potentially get hurt.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sunny Gray is probably going to get traded this month, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's another starter you're going to lose.
[SPEAKER_02]: Gary Crochet, we have no idea how close he is.
[SPEAKER_02]: He might still be quite a ways away.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're looking at another scenario where
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, scrap heap guys that are in your starting rotation.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Patrick Santa ball.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, Jake Bennett, I think is a good, you know, young pitcher for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think he's scrap heap.
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, another guy that you're having to lean on a lot more than you thought.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, yeah, it's, it's going to get to a point where this might start to get really ugly if you start to lose more starters because that's the strength of your team.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's what has kept you in it, you know, and obviously, you know, your offense isn't going to change much.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, losing early really hurts and you're going to lose probably some more pictures as we go forward here because, you know, eventually those trees are going to start coming down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just always concerning when these guys go get injured because.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they might as well be in witness protection program when you're on the I.L.
[SPEAKER_01]: for the red sox right you mentioned Patrick's and of all Terry I completely forgot that we even signed that guy so I am I find comfort that he's getting close to returning because I'll take anybody over bail.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, Patrick's and of all completely forgot he was on the roster.
[SPEAKER_01]: and then that made me think of another guy who went down in April and we haven't heard a thing about it since Johan, OV80, still no idea what happened to that guy, crochet and Roman Anthony are two maybe most popular names are two most well-known names and still vague updates on both of them right there is like a weird video for an Anthony playing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Balls off the wall the other day that I saw on Twitter.
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, he still can't swing a bat crochet not able to resume throwing activities So just any time a guy hits the IL you never know what you're gonna get.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll tell you it's not a big deal It's not severe and then he'll be out for three months.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just always concerning any time you're you're more than just day-to-day So hopefully the Symmaging comes back negative and
[SPEAKER_01]: early doesn't miss an extended period of time but you guys are both right right these are guys are young arms and they're really stressing the innings and the pitches that they've thrown probably gonna be the maximum of their young careers each and every year right moving forward these next couple of years but we'll have to wait and see.
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing that's starting to get concerning here is you're back into the bullpen is not as stout going forward as we thought because they're going to have to trade a role as Chapman.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're beyond stupid if they don't, so he's going to get traded.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that would mean what, Garrett Whitlock slides into the closer role, most likely, at least I hope that would be their thinking.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's fine, Whitlock's had a good year, not his best, but still pretty good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Who the hell is your eighth inning guy?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't think it's Justin Slayton anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: That guy looks like he's gone completely backwards.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably Guerrero.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it grew, I might be the best guy in there at the moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's kind of a scary thought because he's what 35 and, you know, he's just now kind of getting into his home.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, we might be reaching a point here where obviously this would be an offseason from, but now you have to re-tool the back end of your bullpen.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've got to get set up guys and you've got to hope that Garrett Whitlock when he's the full-time closer if that's the route they choose to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: that he can hack it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, your your rotation is going to take a hit and now your bullpen looks like it's going to take a hit because I don't know what's going on with Slating but he just looks like a he is no clue what he's doing up there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we could be bad in three areas pretty soon after after the trade deadline of if things keep going this way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Slating just up there tossing meatballs lately, getting it lit up,
[SPEAKER_01]: Like a Christmas tree, it's been tough when he gets out on the mound.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I agree Guerrero is probably our best guy to the pen next to Chapman at this time but Whitlock probably makes more sense starting off as the closer, you know, it's going to be a slippery slope if and when they move Chapman because to your point, the back end of the bullpen already been struggling a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even when Chapman was in there, he's blown a few saves himself lately.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what it's already been a terrible, tough, painful season of baseball that we've been stuck watching.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all he can get worse when we lose a guy like Chapman.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the back end of the bullpen just is what we saw tonight right we're gonna see a lot of games like tonight where Maybe it's close and then you just hit some guys in the bullpen and they're gonna put that put up a touchdown on you Late in the game so yeah, not gonna be a fun day if and when they they move Chapman for that reason
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, guys, we're just going to have to step up the bullpen looking pretty light right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wiser, give you a pretty valiant effort there.
[SPEAKER_01]: It did his best out of the pen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but man, just a lot of arms down on the injured list.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is where you need depth.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where death helps you out.
[SPEAKER_01]: And unfortunately, the bullpen death was never really a strength of hours on this, this 2026 Red Sox team.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, no, go ahead.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just going to say, you know, different players are going in different directions, you know, Caleb Durbin is the best hitter on the team in the last few weeks.
[SPEAKER_00]: after going to that clinic.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll see what happens there, but then you have Rafael starting to go the wrong way.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's still hitting at an okay clip, but he's drawn three walks in the last month and his on base in the last month is 298.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: he might only be a first half of the year player.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's the pattern.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe they'll figure something out and he'll heat up, but I don't know, I don't know where the offense is going to come from.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I haven't pulled up a braille yet, but I mean, he's I think probably going the wrong way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see how he's doing in the last month.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's floating around 270 right now with a
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, sevens, mid sevens, OPS, but just kind of Ben Strieke sedan, like you said, also Strieke player, we saw him lights out for about six week strips last year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe this year is the same thing, floundering a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's Ben Tough.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to give a quick shout out here to Anthony Seagler, because when you mention,
[SPEAKER_01]: guys are taking different directions on the team um i don't know i know it's early but he actually seems to look like a a pretty decent ball player his at bats he seems comfortable to plate not overmatched balance taking good balance wings make good contact and when you say guys taking different directions it just made me think i'm sitting up there watching him take these at bats i think he has an eight game hitting street
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, and just saying man this guy looks nothing like what mayor looks like when mayor is up there at the plate Looking like a guy who's struggling and overmatched and a guy that can't hit when seagullers up there He actually looks like a big league guy looks comfortable up there looks like he's ready to hit whenever I think he has a he had that lead off double down the line Which I didn't realize Kavali was bringing 99 and 100 when we came into this game tonight So it was a little surprise to see
[SPEAKER_01]: the stuff in which he was coming at the socks with, but, you know, this line up continues to struggle against, uh, well, any big league pitching, but in particular velocity and, um, yeah, I don't know outside of contraris, I don't know who the true legitimate big league hitters are, derands certainly continues to struggle, Rafael a known to be a streaky hitter over his career.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll bring you the same, and then the rest are four A guys call it at best, and that's putting it nicely for most of those guys, although Derwin to your point is somehow our best hitter right now, he's raking right now, so we'll give you a quick little flowers there, Caleb.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a Bray is hitting 232 in the last month, and he is three for his last 24, so trending towards
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the problem with having that kind of weekend, they got against the Yankees with this line up is that that works for one weekend.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to work going forward.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not sustainable as Matt mentioned.
[SPEAKER_02]: Most of this line up is for a players.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's really just contraris a breu, a drain when he's on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are big league hitters, but
[SPEAKER_02]: I like Seekler too, but water is going to find its level, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: There's going to be a regression to the mean, you know, pictures are going to figure him out.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Chang is not a big league hitter.
[SPEAKER_02]: You still don't have any capture who can hit on this team, so that's a complete black hole in your lineup.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, look, it was fun for that weekend, but again, it's this idea of the punchy red socks are going to make a comeback, it's just
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not realistic.
[SPEAKER_02]: These guys, again, there's going to be a regression to the mean.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, your offense is just going to go back in the tank once that happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, it's unfortunate, but I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I don't see where the offense is going to come from.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, ironically, Terry, we were sitting here on Friday night talking about this and I asked the question, do you think the socks can win 10 in a row?
[SPEAKER_01]: And your immediate answer was no, I was rooting for a win tonight, just so we could come on and kind of flirt with that 10 gamer to your point, to your point, Jason, there we, if we get past the nationals,
[SPEAKER_01]: then we've got the angels and ten and a row is definitely within reach and my comment was I can definitely see the socks rotation spinning off ten or twelve quality starts in a row not realizing they would already done I think six or seven in a row at that time but the offense just can't keep pace and it was nice to
[SPEAKER_01]: It was always nice to sweep the Yankees no matter the time of the year no matter the standings, but I really did think we were generating a little bit of momentum there, not necessarily buying into the comeback heads or that we were actually going to make a playoff push, but they were actually giving you some good baseball to watch for once, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Exciting come back win on Sunday night versus the Yankees.
[SPEAKER_01]: again, we were still like 11 below 500 at that time or 10 below whatever it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, giving you some exciting baseball, a reason to watch the quality start streak, they had a good streak of nine straight case from the starting pitchers.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, at this point, I'm just trying to find the silver linings, you know, things to look forward to when we're watching.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it seems like
[SPEAKER_01]: they take something like that away right early was one of those bright spots that I enjoyed watching pitch and now he looks like he's going down for at least a little bit of time but
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, it's just a streaky team and we'll see if they can get back on it tomorrow, but the nationals have been a fun matchup.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was actually looking forward to this matchup because they're short of the polar opposite of the red socks.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have really strong pitching, but really weak offense.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're the complete opposite.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have a strong offense.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they have the most scored run run scored in the league, if not the national league.
[SPEAKER_01]: And terrible pitching.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've got the most blown saves in the league.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, for a while there, I thought maybe we could this could be the team we
[SPEAKER_01]: Cavali gave you a seven strong 13 k's and then by the time the bullpen even came in the game it was a five or six wrong game at that point so interesting kind of gel in the team we still have a chance to win the series tomorrow, but Man, just continue to struggle and not a lot of bright spots here, especially offensively.
[SPEAKER_00]: Guess what year If any singular was drafted 2018
[SPEAKER_00]: That's 2018 and guess what round he was drafted.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, geez
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, he was the first round.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the first round.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he ended back in the draft, but I one of his drafts was a no that was that one and done the Yankees took him first round 23rd overall and then he proceeded to spend the next eight years in the minors the brewers gave him a shot last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you do with the brewers he hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: 194 with a 292 on base 210 slugging OPS plus of 43.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm cherry picking the ugly stats, but it's not good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just got to bring us down to earth Jason how we start saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there Terry brings us right back down.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the water is going to find the sewage drain.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then wherever that lands might be, I don't know, I'm just
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll be fun to watch, but it's just, you know, every player we call out seems to have a brief honeymoon, you know, we saw it with Gasper.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen it with Eric so guard at times or what says Nick so guard.
[SPEAKER_00]: same family.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, so it's just yeah, and I never even heard of that, um, I don't know what he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Asian guy playing shortstop was very good defensively, but I'm just not familiar with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it's just, you know, we don't even know who these players are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Almost
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's just just, you know, an ode to the season we're having right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've never heard of Chang either, but story goes down maybe we saw that coming, but also IKF and Mayor, you know, it's it's it's tough when we're on our fourth string shortstop here right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sieger drafted in 2018.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a check as age there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize he was 27 years old already.
[SPEAKER_01]: Same age as Juan Soto.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a guy who won World Series almost a decade ago and Siegler, born same year, but two completely different career trajectories, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was actually thinking Soto about Soto a little bit tonight briefly, just because we were playing the nationals and the hall they got back from him with wood and Abrams were getting our plenty.
[SPEAKER_01]: plenty dose of those two going yard each of those first two games.
[SPEAKER_01]: The nationals, although struggling and rebuilding just to shout out to them, they did it right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They got a good haul back from Soto and I think go where they flip to Texas for another piece.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, two guys right now who I think both of them have more homers than Soto at this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, yeah, quick shout out to the nationals GM, I can't think of his name off top my head, but great move there.
[SPEAKER_00]: They also got the only executive from our front office that wasn't a clown.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the real kicker.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they get to Bony, all the strings over there now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Damn.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, 10 in a row might be off the table, but 9 of 10, still on the table, but they got a win tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_02]: So tomorrow we got the series finale against the Nationals.
[SPEAKER_02]: 135 start, Peyton Toli for the Red Sox going up against Andrew Vasquez, her Steve Andrew Alvarez, Andrew Alvarez for the Nationals.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Matt, how do you see that one going tomorrow?
[SPEAKER_01]: This is tough, a day game, I believe, tomorrow, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally has been pitching well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just think that the national's offense is too strong.
[SPEAKER_01]: They've actually mentioned a few times this series already.
[SPEAKER_01]: How good they are against left-handed pitching.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think they're one of the better if not best teams against left-handed pitching.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this would be our third lefty that we shots against them in a row, I believe.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think the national's best, they hot tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really see us.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know much about this Alvarez guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, I want to see a red tax win, but I think totally probably pitches OK, but probably has one of those starts where maybe gets in trouble in like the fourth or fifth inning ends up only giving up like two or three runs, but I think he leaves in a jam.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to end up having to get to the bullpen early.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, they see young national team, young fire power.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got an early game after a night game.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll take the young row team, national's that they took the momentum tonight.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't really have many reasons to pick the socks despite coming off that five game streak here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll go national's tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm not going to pretend that I've ever heard of the Andrew Elver as last three games.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has not pitched more than four and one third innings.
[SPEAKER_00]: He also hasn't given up more than two earned runs, doesn't seem to punch out a ton of guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know, I mean,
[SPEAKER_00]: you're going to have Durbin contraris presumably.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, I mean, a brain who hits lefty is pretty well, better than righty's this year, I don't know where.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he is three for his last 24.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, where's the offense going to come from?
[SPEAKER_00]: But like I think you pointed out in the war room at if this guy can't go deep,
[SPEAKER_00]: where's their bullpen going to come from because they're not very good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's very close.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's close.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'll give it to the nationals.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think I'm going to go with the nationals and this one as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder if contraris is going to sit tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know they need the game, they need his offense.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I wonder if they're just like, you need to take a chill pill, dude.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like they've got the off day on Thursday, they're heading out to the west coast.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's probably got a suspension earring, you know, looming.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just wonder, Tracy's like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_02]: You need to sit because you're not in a state to be playing baseball right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: And look, we all, we can all understand why, but yeah, I just wonder if they're going to do something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's a big bet that might be out of your lineup.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could be wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: He could be right back in there tomorrow, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just wouldn't surprise me.
[SPEAKER_02]: It seems like a tricy kind of move, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, I don't disagree with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just such a weak lineup.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm thinking of that lineup on paper.
[SPEAKER_01]: The same lineup we saw tonight, but if you see that in your starting lineup, it's just,
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, you might as well give it to the nationals, but like I said before, complete opposite team here right good pitching versus good offense and we'll get to see what's going to be better tomorrow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I just think that national's offensive, they do hit lefties very well.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think they'll eventually get to totally, and you know, that'll be it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and even though the national's pitching is got awful, I don't trust this offense to mount any sort of rally against them.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, unfortunately, I get the national's winning tomorrow too, but hopefully we're wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Seaguer gets a hit tomorrow though Terry nine game hitting streak for Seaguer and we'll get to enjoy that at least giving him a ball ball head night retired as jersey.
[SPEAKER_02]: Might as well at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So with that, we're going to call it a night.
[SPEAKER_02]: So everyone enjoy the rest of your night.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be back on the year Thursday.
[SPEAKER_02]: So keep an eye out for that and yeah, hopefully Red Sox can salvage the series, but we'll see what happens tomorrow.