[SPEAKER_00]: of the gay app name for a gay app podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Evan Mills is here on that's a gay ass podcast to talk about the things that made you gay, which is the basis of many of your gorgeous videos on the interwebs, but also, Evan, you're wearing a shirt right now that feels like there's a story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you show us who she is?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, um, you know, she's just up and coming artist.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her name is Cher.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I've heard
[SPEAKER_01]: period.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although can we for a hot second talk about how scene I felt when share and clue this had a last name Horowitz?
[SPEAKER_01]: Come on, dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think shares?
[SPEAKER_01]: Last name was at birth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you think she had one of those?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure, do people know this?
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like they had, it has to exist, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And like, I feel like I should just say, God, no, it's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even realize I was going to go down this wormhole this early in the episode, but did you know that Sherry's birth name is Cheryl Sarkisian?
[SPEAKER_00]: I just looked it up to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cheryl, Cheryl Lynn Sarkisian.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's giving like Kardashian.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's giving.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love to learn some of our gay heritage live and living color especially with you Evan Mills.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, speaking of name etymology, I'm of course going to tell the listeners why I'm so obsessed with you, but
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Instagram handles can give us insight into somebody's backstory.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your Instagram handle is Ock Van Mills, A-W-K-V-A-N Mills, and your name is Evan Mills.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is the emotional backstory?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is that your handle?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's kind of wild.
[SPEAKER_00]: I made that name so long ago when, you know, I was around when Instagram first began.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like, oh, you know, how quirky is this?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm kind of an awkward guy and my name is Evan Mills.
[SPEAKER_00]: So why not just be Occfan Mills?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did not know who Occupyna was at the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, this was like 2010, 2011, whenever Instagram was invented, and that kind of just stuck.
[SPEAKER_00]: I never changed it.
[SPEAKER_00]: At one point, I was like, maybe I should change this, and then I told that to somebody and they were like, no, actually like, for six months, I thought your name was Occphan.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, okay, cool, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'll keep it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, no, keep it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the name.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time we see it on Instagram now, I know it's you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do know I do know that Ock van is the name that gives me your stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so beautiful to see that you have stuck to your guns because I similarly did the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: People think my full name is Eric Willes when it's just Eric Williams, but Eric Williams was taken.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so here we are with a gay Z, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I wish my last name was Mills with a V.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, can you imagine, Aquafina Wishes?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you wish it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope she's doing well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I haven't heard from her since I heard her voice on the subway system in New York a few years back, but I'm sure she is thriving.
[SPEAKER_00]: Question mark?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure she's, she got that didn't he money?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, she got to play together.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what, we all remember Aquafina as Scuddle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, um, I want to, can I tell you a big secret before we get into my journalistic question?
[SPEAKER_01]: Please.
[SPEAKER_01]: My big secret is, I never do this and never, but I set to myself, Evan Mills is coming on the podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what I should do is take 11 milligrams of an edible time it so that it hits me 30 minutes into the interview, so that for the substack portion, I can really feel totally asking you invasive questions about your personal life.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also have a pint of Ben and Jerry's waiting for me, so I'm feeling good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, and thank you for sharing that and thank you for telling me that because can I tell you right before I long gone to do this?
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought should I smoke a joint?
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought should I smoke a bull and I thought should I take an edible?
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't do any of those three things because I I know that 30 minutes in It would have gone weird, but honestly who knows maybe in like five minutes?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I should join you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rippabong live.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think this is actually beautiful that we're already sharing our love for marijuana.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think one day, even though we've just met, I feel kindredly that we maybe should enjoy a joint together.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just sort of see a lot of opportunity there as a business woman.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I also as a gay journalist, one of the listeners know that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Evan Mills is an incredible comedian, actor, writer, and the videos you may have seen from him on the internet include beautiful songs.
[SPEAKER_01]: One includes this little jingle.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is when I knew I was gay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you're playing full slides shows of every single reference, which I find to be so connected to this podcast due to our famous podcast question.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of gay weaklings in your work, a lot of great music, which we'll get into, but I feel like...
[SPEAKER_01]: As a transition, I want to ask the famous podcast question, Ock Van Mills, Evan Mills, if you're nasty, who's fault?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it that you're gay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do we blame, babe?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, okay, you know, according to all my videos, I do say like all these things made me gay, which are true.
[SPEAKER_00]: None of them are a lie, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, what didn't make me gay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I, I will say I do have an answer for what?
[SPEAKER_00]: actually I believe made me gay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I believe that it is one of two things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the underwear ads at Coles or just the underwear ads in general on the packaging.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then related to that when we used to get catalogs or like male of
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what's, this is what's at Coles this week and it was just underwear models in just so naturally posing in these advertisements.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember.
[SPEAKER_00]: My mom would go through them and then she would just toss them to the side and then I would take them all to my own little corner in my bedroom and I would, I knew where the underwear section was for every single catalog and when I tell you I, I stared at those for so long, I think they, I think they still live rent free in my mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, you know what's so wild about this Evan is that I have heard the answer of course the underwear aisle, the underwear ads, but you gave me a memory that I haven't thought about in years, which is yes, underwear for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: But those cold catalogs and maybe Macy's or whatever the other department stores, they also have many.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very juicy penny.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had men modeling like flannel shirts and I don't know if it's toxic masculinity or the Midwesternness, but
[SPEAKER_01]: My fantasy when I first learned to jerk my jerk was my first fantasy was unbuttoning the flannel of the men in the post catalogs and finding what lie underneath what lies beneath Yes, and you just let your imagination run because it was right there, you know, and we didn't have you know
[SPEAKER_01]: iPhones.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't have computers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we didn't have, we didn't have much, uh, uh, uh, assuming, are you fully 11 years old?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you, do you think, do you think, do you think, do you think we're the same age?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we're the same age, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I, let's say we're adults.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: One, two, three, three, 30, 35.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank God.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait,
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I was morning 90, look at that, we're right there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, wait, so this actually leads to the next question because I'm born in the 89, I'm September baby.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like old, I was, I graduated high school O8.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm old for my year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm giving like old lady gang.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were 90, what month, and where did you grow up?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can figure out, surmise.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, this is, this is actually crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was 90 October and I graduated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also skipped a grade.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's why way, you know, I graduated at 17.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that means you have a lot of trauma because you were a high achiever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I skipped first grade, so then it made me think that I was invincible and then I was a terrible student, the whole rest of my academic career.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, I'm not giving any shades to your gorgeous parents, but what is the reason behind having a child skipped first grade?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this is what the hears what my mom told me is that in first grade they pulled my mom in to a meeting and they were like, hey, Evan is not he's not taking any work home because he's doing it all in class.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's reading out of fourth grade level.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing math at a third grade level.
[SPEAKER_00]: He seems really bored with what we're teaching him what if we put him in second grade for a little bit like on like two days out of the week and my mom's like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's give it a try.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I went into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they were like, let's move into second grade.
[SPEAKER_00]: My mom was like, okay, great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then a month later, they pulled my mom in for another meeting and they said, hey, I think he's still bored doing trying third grade.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my mom said, absolutely not.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not going to be 16 when he graduates high school.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then I stayed in second grade.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think at that young of an age, I was like, well, I don't have to do anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm good at
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I also almost failed high school.
[SPEAKER_00]: It, like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, so it almost had like the reverse result, which is that you went from like sort of being high-achiever into thinking your shit don't stink.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you said, I don't have to read the bridge to Tarabithia.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know what happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a bridge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't, uh, yeah, I think it was a bad idea to have, because I was supposed to graduate no nine.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then yeah, the whole skipping one you're literally I just started this by saying I was old from my year and you're revealing that you were a full year younger than me, but also graduating the same so you were like wait where okay where geographically because different places have different cutoffs what where do you grow up I was in Michigan so I shout out shout out go down right here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So somewhat of a Midwestern quality today, but I think there is a slightly Filipino elephant in the room, which is are there a lot of Filipinos in the place you grew up in Mish?
[SPEAKER_01]: Shockingly?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, that's not shocking.
[SPEAKER_00]: It I grew up
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're like, truthfully, I think that in my town, there was probably 30 Filipinos.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we knew all of them, because when you move to that tiny little town, they smell it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they were like, oh, we need to be friends with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: But not a single Filipino went to my high school.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you were talking token, token fill, I graduated with 500 people in my class, and I would say 15 of them were POC.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, and so is it problematic to break down the POC where they're, I mean, I mean, in Michigan I surmise.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm not going to survive because that's not my job nor am I, my journey, I must ask though, as you are a gay Filipino, you know, it's a long ago, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a long ago, yeah, we live, we live, we laugh for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're all 30 of you in Michigan sort of comparing your own notes on read the longer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, those Filipino parties where they would do karaoke in the basement and it was always on my own.
[SPEAKER_01]: My mom would be like, yeah, your people are so good at karaoke.
[SPEAKER_00]: it is so true.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I tell you the trauma of that is why I don't like to do karaoke anymore is because my mom would take me to this group of people and then she'd be like, okay, a knock, a knock is your turn.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's your turn, come on, come on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then she would make me sing like voice to men like, I'll make love to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always, it's always a black belt song because the amount of Filipino Cariocchio videos I've seen of dream girls.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need more than this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I What is up?
[SPEAKER_01]: I just love the like sort of inherent Belting vocal quality of so many Filipino people.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like and also I hate I hate Cariocchio But I think it's because of my musical theater trauma, so different but same
[SPEAKER_00]: So fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think those videos are so funny of like those little kids singing dream girls and they're they just like They do like three lines each and then they give and then it's like I'm gonna belt harder than him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's very one up, but like we all win in the end
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that though it's such a testament to you as a vocalist that you don't do karaoke probably because it's actually a part of your work, like it doesn't feel like you're just going for fun and almost feels like you'd have to prove.
[SPEAKER_01]: yourself, or like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's talk about these videos.
[SPEAKER_01]: You, uh, in the videos I'd say, this is when I knew I was gay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You give us really good references that are truly classic.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then some niche ones that I want to dive into for a second, one that was a big, uh, face punch was rufio from hook.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was huge for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, yes, I do think it's because
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% did you see him he he literally ran that that never never never land he ran the land he came up there and he was like who are you and everyone was like sir been me over whatever you want to do Rufio let me change your name three times
[SPEAKER_01]: three times and let's be clear he was supposed to be like a part of the young tribe if you will but he was getting of age he was giving 18 plus he was a hot for sure and everybody else was giving like 12 exactly he was the drag mom of the neverland Yeah pop poppers sort of orphans the copper orphans yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so Rufio, three times a lady we love.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's another really important pop culture reference you give in a video like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the family stone scene where Luke Wilson is standing in his sweatpants outside of the free Bradshaw's car and all you see is his fat fucking bulge.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is, and it's like, to me on that director was like, no, no, I know what I'm doing and I know, I know what we're giving, I know what we're giving them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I remember the first time I saw that movie and that scene happened and I was like, hold up.
[SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't a mistake.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they put Luke Wilson in those sweatpants, angled the camera right there and they said, give us a little stretch.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, the way that he carries himself through the world, you know it is very bushy and quite thick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just feel that from looking at him and feeling his aura.
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% when you can see the chest there coming out of the neck of the shirt and you know when he went like he he just gave that energy and so I understand why she left German malrony for
[SPEAKER_01]: Which, you know, is a very, very fraught thing to say, because Dermit Malroni, similarly, uh, anything that he does gave me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's kind of the personification of, I would say, Daddy, he is the personification of the men that I would confusely fantasize about at 10 years old, wondering, why do I want to unbutton this man's white button down?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's because of the people who look and feel like Dermit Malroni.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a hundred percent thinking him for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Other references that meant a lot to me Chris Evans with whip cream and cherries on his tits covering his dick from not another teen movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also have the toothbrushing scene in one of the videos from bring it on with Jesse Bradford, which I think is less about the hotness of Jesse Bradford and more about the whimsy of a crush do you agree?
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do agree because that whole that whole scene where she like walks past his bedroom and he's like playing air guitar or whatever it or real guitar whatever he's doing and she just kind of watches him and then I was like I think I was like nine when that came out and I was like
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I totally get where you're feeling right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the whole brushing the teeth and like him just kind of giving her like that cute little side eye and yeah, I'm like, okay, Berr, it is called in here there must be some crest toothpaste in in the back of my throat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I, I, I just think it's important to to celebrate your success with these videos.
[SPEAKER_01]: You get a lot of great engagement.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, deserve it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But most importantly, Michelle Branch commented on one, uh, the Michelle Branch.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's in a branch, Brendan Fraser and in Cino Man was also a sexual awakening for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think for the Michelle Branch to be taken in by your gay awakening videos, it means you're doing something right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty iconic, you know, and she, because I was wearing, I was wearing a Michelle brand shirt, and the fun fact about that shirt is like, I actually went to that concert.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think I was at a college campus, and my mom took this gay little 12-year-old surrounded by college kids to see Michelle branch, and I said, this is my most treasured shirt that I own.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, I have to wear these in all these videos, and then everyone started tagging her in these videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though they have nothing to do with her, but then nostalgia of it, and then she was like, hey, what's up?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, hey girl!
[SPEAKER_01]: I bring such a smile to my face because I think your mom was such an icon to bring her gable son to a Michelle Branch concert.
[SPEAKER_01]: My mom, my first concert ever saw it was with my mom, it was dare I say the male Michelle Branch who is Josh Grobe and not in a musical sort of like from the same era.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that was very, you know, gender-affirming care.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gaya Fermancare is to go to a concert with your mom.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you did come out, being in the Midwest of it all, as I'm also from the Midwest, was it an okay response or did it take some time?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, okay, so fun fact.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fun fact about me.
[SPEAKER_00]: My dad is also okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yes, gag.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, give us the scoop, what's the story?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so my parents were together for nine years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when I was four, he came out of the closet and he was like, I'm moving LA and I'm gonna go find myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I've never known my parents to be together.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always known that I have my mom and my gay dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you said you were four when this happened?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was four.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And is that sort of biologically, psychologically speaking, like memories are only starting to be remembered at that age, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, do you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's, I guess that's really what you literally just said.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just, so, so, Airm four years old, that comes out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to LA.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to Los Angeles to find my home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Finds himself in LA, does it come back to Mitch?
[SPEAKER_00]: me so he got so this was a misery so even rewind even further back i was born a misery way i'm from St. Louis i'm from japan oh my god drop one different ends yeah i'm true what the hell is okay way and are you a Libra
[SPEAKER_00]: Virgo, but I'm a lead for cost, so I'm like the last day of Virgo, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you said September and I was like, it can be one of two things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, close, close.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, no, he went back, he went back to Missouri and we moved to Michigan.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we moved to Michigan when I was like seven.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he moved, he moved to Missouri and then fast forward a couple years he meets my stepdad and he now has been with my stepdad for I want to say like 18 years now and my mom also got remarried so I have three dads and one mom.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love this so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Evan, it's isn't a crazy that I wanted to bring you on the podcast to talk about Chris Evans covered in whipped cream and now I'm getting the most amazing Shakespearean drama llama, but it kind of the way you talk about it sounds settled.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't sound like you were like feeling like dad abandoned me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that too deep of a question?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I feel, well, now, I think now at my right age of 35, I feel so comfortable in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, and also I'm an only child, so like that was like another layer of processing at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, well, this also like a, then a triple layer of you yourself being gay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, growing up knowing that your dad was gay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then coming out, do you think it when you came out, did it help it feel more normalized to you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it took me longer to come out, who, because I was nervous, because I was the only child, and I was like, well damn, like, No, now I can't also come out to my mom, and then be like, okay, not like, you know, I was like, if I had a sister or brother, then I probably would have come out.
[SPEAKER_00]: 13.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I came out at 19.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was like in college and I was like experimenting and then I was like I just got I just got to be honest with her and when I told my dad my dad was like yeah I had noticed you've been you've been wearing a lot of short shorts and a lot of your photos
[SPEAKER_01]: I said cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know that there are some follow-ups here that I and I think the listeners might be squirting for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Question number one, do we have a good relationship with all three dads?
[SPEAKER_01]: We do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, isn't that shocking?
[SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, it is because many are bad, but you have three of them that are presiding over your personhood.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's really, I think I was very lucky because.
[SPEAKER_00]: my parents when they got divorced, my mom was like, well, we have to be friends because she was like, I don't want him to grow up without you, but also I don't want him to see us in a bad light or like, and so it was like, I always grew up being like, yeah, my parents are completely fine and they're normal and we would go on vacations together and I would spend summers with my dad and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when they both got remarried,
[SPEAKER_00]: I love my dad's partner and I love my mom's husband and my dad's husband as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, it's, I don't know, it's like, it's, it's really lucky because my dad's husband is like the, like, the queen of Springfield, Missouri.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like does all the musical theater, photos and was the drama teacher for like 30 plus years, like so, celebrity, the springfield,
[SPEAKER_01]: This is, you know what, it's so, it's like, it's probably because the edible is hitting, but also just because it is a great story.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like seeing a snapshot of how to do divorce right, how to do co-parenting right, and how to welcome your gay kid right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is by leading by example, which is lowering the drama and upering the
[SPEAKER_01]: normalization, and just like, um, I don't know, common sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are so many couples that get divorced or parents or couples who don't get divorced.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's just so fucking, there's so much chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the story that you paint could be all chaos.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yet, you're saying it so plainly, and it's not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, yeah, I have a gay dad who,
[SPEAKER_01]: move to L.A. when I was for married and new dude went back to Missouri, mom got a new guy, and they're all, and they're all gravy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I'm really, I'm really in love with this story.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to congratulate you on having a gorgeous family.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And dare I say I was spoiled with having few two parents who were divorced and still made it
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, what's also cool is that you are now kind of gay royalty because you come from a familial line, which is maybe why you have inherited some really great gay qualities.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether that is pop culture knowledge, a gorgeous voice, editing ability, are you doing the video editing and audio editing for your songs?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for most of the stuff I make, when I was in Chicago, I had my, my, my buddy Edgar was filming it editing a lot of them for me, but when I started I was doing all the editing, I went to film school, so like I had like final cut on my computer and like I just knew how to do it, so like now that I'm out here in LA, I make all my own videos, I do all the editing, I do all the music producing, I do, I just,
[SPEAKER_00]: I make everything on my own and that's why I'm like, you know, it takes me a minute to pump out videos, but I like the course.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes so much work and I really want to commend you on.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also just like a great time and history to be that self-starter because it's very hard for us to just wait for the opportunities to come.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you know, not that this is a resume show.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think it's important to let listeners know that you were in the 2023 CBS showcase.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were at JFL new face in 2023 and you've been working on some very cool stuff behind the scenes.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's obviously made a really big impact in your career to be so authentically homosexual.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the videos that you do have that I found to be important was a very beautiful song containing the lyrics.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know you're in a gay man's home when there was no overhead lighting and there was at least five lamps in every room but no overhead lighting.
[SPEAKER_01]: While the message is clear and important, being a design gay has not, we've not all been blessed with that moniker.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not the design gay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you have like really gorgeous taste?
[SPEAKER_00]: I, to to my own horn, just briefly, I do think I do, I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you're allowed to say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that I, and if this was not the career that I wanted to be pursuing, I would be deeply pursuing interior design.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how how
[SPEAKER_01]: How fab, how fab.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, I love it, I love it, I live for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I think it also comes up with my upbringing of like, my mom and I would go to open houses on weekends and we would go and my favorite thing when I would go to friends houses is instead of like, hang out with my friends, I would hang out with their moms and ask them to show me like their decor.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was like me at like 12 being like, I love this painting on this wall.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my mom, like, let me design and decorate my own bedroom.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, like, I was able to, like, change it every six months.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I live for, like, maximumism.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess you can kind of tell from my mom, but yeah, I, and I also believe in no overhead lighting ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: ever, which I do think a lot of people agree with me on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm going to tell you something.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did not know that that was a rule until I started dating Matt and now we've been together for a billion years, so I finally understand the power, but if I wasn't with him or someone like him, it might be...
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the what kind of bulbs are not overhead lighting?
[SPEAKER_01]: What are those called fluorescent it might it might be it might have been a very fluorescent life for me and I count myself lucky.
[SPEAKER_01]: I count myself saved from fluorescence and you were set you were saved your gay saved.
[SPEAKER_01]: literally I was gay, say, play a Catholic from Georgia, so listen, we do want to pop over to the other side to talk more about sort of dark room stories, if you will, sort of after dark sort of close friend circle, if you will.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's ask the final podcast question before we do so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Evan Mills, that question is, if the world was ending,
[SPEAKER_01]: And you could only save one character, actress.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who would you save?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay, so when I, when I tell you I spent a long time thinking about this, because I, you know, I was like, oh, someone came to my mind immediately and then I thought about it and then I had three and then I had a narrative down to two and I still have two, but I think that, I think that I just have to go with my gut.
[SPEAKER_00]: please and and I'll tell you that I'll tell you the other one after I tell you my first pick.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do believe that it for me it's Allison Janney.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pray that everyone Allison Janney great answer but I unfortunately want to give her her do but I'm so now under the influence of a THC that I and even the other ones immediately.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the other, the other two that I had were Joan Kewsack and Missy Pile.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, okay, so here's the deal, Evan, really great across the board because you're giving us an opportunity to talk about something that has not been discussed yet, which is
[SPEAKER_01]: uh Joan Q. Sachs recent return.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you been at all clued into the toy story five of it all?
[SPEAKER_00]: Just just briefly like I saw the whole like she made an appearance on the red carpet and took a photo with Jessie for the first time since 1999 or something and it was like her first red carpet appearance and
[SPEAKER_01]: a minute right a billet yeah a million years and as you are a Chicago girl having been a second city star and there for so so many years I just find it so cool that she and one of the interviews she gave
[SPEAKER_01]: She basically explains that she took a step back from being a fucking icon, Hollywood star, and I think it was like about raising her kids, which is not what I think that's beautiful, but I might not be what she said, but what she did definitely say is that she like opened her own like antique shop home goods store, whatever, in Chicago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then just live like a really normal life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just think that's so cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the shop is was down the street from Second City.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what everybody said is that she was there almost every single day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she would pop in, check in on her employees, say hi to the people that were at her store.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the two times I went to her store, she was not there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was so sad, but I knew that she was just right down the block.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like every day I was like, hey girl, we sure we are, let us, let us listen to our block, you know, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And is that why she's not number one on your character actress list?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is this your villain or story?
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess so, I guess so.
[SPEAKER_00]: And listen, she got, she's a two-time Oscar nominee, you know, for one of the greatest films in and out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, Joan Cusack, just the way that she speaks would make and gay formalists.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she's such like a gay maker, she's, um, yeah, I, you know, I, I, I, I grieve the maybe roles we didn't get while she was running her shop, but I also know that the most beautiful quality a character actress can have is self-worth.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she knew that her worth meant leaving the biz for a minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: She seems happy and that's all we can hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to get junk you sick on this podcast I don't know if that's a gay ass podcast would be Stop True the never they never never never never let's head into horny tales But before we do so give us a quick little shout out to where to follow you and if there's anything else you would like for these gorgeous listeners to know
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, you can follow me on all social media platforms at Ock Van Mills, as we discussed, a WKVA and M-I-L-L-S.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have some pretty cool stuff coming up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just moved to LA this like it just in the last year, and some things have been popping up that I can't really speak of yet, but just saying stay tuned to
[SPEAKER_00]: The social media pages, you know, and and here's the thing, too, I took a little break off social media because of these things that I've been doing so if anyone's like, why haven't you posted any videos recently, it's you'll find out soon enough, but
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm goodness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, congratulations on the move and on all of the stunning things you are doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've put that link in the description, so everybody go check it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Evan stuff is just like really fucking great, and I'm so thrilled that you are continuing to put out really great gay shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's now get into some really hard-hitting questions.
[SPEAKER_01]: We like to talk about formative hookups or really memorable hookups, but before I do that,
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of us want to know.
[SPEAKER_01]: A question that I ask on my glory-hole talk show, Confession-hole question that I ask there is I want to ask you Evan take in single or spiraling I'm taking You bitch I know I'm gonna take in me What does that mean how long have you been with your man?
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been together for six years Mosul and so yeah, wait you move from Chicago to LA with your man.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did mm-hmm and our dog
[SPEAKER_01]: What we what's the dog's name me a named after princess me a thermopolis?
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much Me a thermopolis me a thermopolis for now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another thing that this is what I knew I was gay Is your man civilian or entertain entertain oh so sorry
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had not dated one until because, you know, as an actor brighter performer, whatever artist, I was like, I don't know, like I dated a preschool teacher.
[SPEAKER_00]: I dated a graphic designer, which is also art, but then he was the first one where we met and he was like, I'm an actor and I was like, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see how this goes, but six years later, you know, so far, so we are so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll wait, I'll wait to ask about monogamy until we get a safe distance from the paywall.
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's add just into that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are there any formative hookup tales that come to mind that were either super hot or either
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean definitely for sure, there's one that I always think about from college and not not think about in like a good or bad way.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like anytime someone's like, oh, do you have like an interesting tale?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I don't know why this one always comes to my mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: But why not share it on a podcast now, please, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but it was like, it was when I was still kind of in the closet, I was like not really telling a lot of people that I was I was gay, but I it was like Halloween and there was a guy on my floor who was also very similar to me of like,
[SPEAKER_00]: We kept making eyes that each other at these parties and I was like, okay, I see what you're I'm picking up what you're putting down, you know, and then we started hooking up secretly and that was always fun because I don't know there was something fun about
[SPEAKER_00]: hooking up with someone who was also like, I don't I don't think I'm gay and you're like, yeah, totally that that's even hotter and then you I don't even want to dive into if that's internalized in a phobia, but it's hard on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to think too hard on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't need to unpack why it's so fun to hook up in secret with someone who is also not being their full selves.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: We all have our kings, babe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, that was my thing for a while as I assume it was for all of us, but the gaggy part was is that he, he had a roommate that was like dating a girl, but when the girlfriend with long distance and when she wasn't around, he was always like,
[SPEAKER_00]: let's get drunk and then he would be like kind of flirty and there was this one night where we were all hanging out in the room and the guy that I was hooking up with got too drunk and like went to his room and what he normally would do was he would likely leave the door open just like just a little bit so you know if whenever he left I could like go into his room.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then everybody left and his roommates stayed out into in the living room and he and I were like hang out in the living room and then his roommate got very close to me on the couch and then was like, well, I'm gonna go to bed and I was like, okay, I guess I'll leave and then he's like you don't have to leave and then he like got up went to his bedroom and left his door like wide open.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I was like, okay, so then I walked up to his door frame and he was like, literally like completely naked on his bed and I was like, oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then I instead of going into the guy that I was hooking up with, I went to his roommate room.
[SPEAKER_01]: For the rest of the interview, head to sub-stack linked below where you will also find chats with Colin Braun, Rich Burns, Christopher Patterson, Rosso, Tyler Varval, Sebastian Dino, Cody Silver, Johnny Sibley, Sam Altizer, and more.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's at substack.com slash at Eric Wills, and I will see you there for a gorgeous Harry Hornie time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love you, bye!