WEBVTT 00:08.778 --> 00:11.139 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to feeding them out of the bite tube. 00:11.159 --> 00:14.902 [SPEAKER_00]: A weekly podcast guide on parenting teens and launching them into the world. 00:15.442 --> 00:20.605 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Cynthia Gannon, and as always, I'm joined by psychologists and author, Dr. Ken Wilgus. 00:20.945 --> 00:22.346 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, Dr. Ken, how are you doing? 00:22.606 --> 00:23.747 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm good, Cynthia. 00:23.787 --> 00:24.427 [SPEAKER_01]: How are you? 00:24.927 --> 00:25.207 [SPEAKER_00]: Good. 00:25.227 --> 00:26.368 [SPEAKER_00]: You're sitting in a different place. 00:26.408 --> 00:27.289 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm all in for now. 00:27.849 --> 00:34.092 [SPEAKER_01]: They're working on my roof, and we had a loud, you might still hear some nailing in the background. 00:34.173 --> 00:36.374 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'll have to move to a different room. 00:36.977 --> 00:38.538 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know which is a bigger bummer. 00:38.638 --> 00:39.819 [SPEAKER_00]: Foundation or roof. 00:40.299 --> 00:41.180 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, with those things. 00:41.200 --> 00:42.801 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, foundation is definitely wood. 00:42.841 --> 00:43.882 [SPEAKER_00]: It is, okay. 00:43.962 --> 00:46.384 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean those things you put money into crowns on the teeth. 00:46.484 --> 00:48.205 [SPEAKER_00]: All those things that nobody ever sees in you. 00:48.225 --> 00:49.846 [SPEAKER_01]: You've got all, yeah, done all that. 00:49.946 --> 00:50.386 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 00:50.566 --> 00:51.347 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, all of it. 00:52.868 --> 00:58.332 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so you know this probably, but I grew up super Baptist and listen, I love you. 00:58.352 --> 01:00.214 [SPEAKER_01]: You were just super Baptist church, didn't you? 01:00.514 --> 01:00.854 [SPEAKER_01]: I did. 01:01.114 --> 01:01.314 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 01:01.855 --> 01:02.775 [SPEAKER_00]: I did. 01:03.336 --> 01:09.220 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I remember growing up one of the things that, and I'm not opining if this is wrong or right. 01:09.260 --> 01:13.403 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just stating it, stating a fact, was that like, you do not play the lottery. 01:13.604 --> 01:15.085 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's a form of gambling. 01:15.365 --> 01:16.586 [SPEAKER_01]: I, yep, I remember that. 01:17.007 --> 01:20.010 [SPEAKER_00]: OK, and so to this day, I've never bought a lottery ticket. 01:20.210 --> 01:21.731 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I've been given one once or twice. 01:21.771 --> 01:23.913 [SPEAKER_00]: But so you're going to hell. 01:24.333 --> 01:24.934 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, right? 01:25.234 --> 01:28.817 [SPEAKER_00]: This is really worse than the confesses some things. 01:29.517 --> 01:33.601 [SPEAKER_00]: So my husband, I get a vagus on occasion, just to hear a concert or he'll have business. 01:33.641 --> 01:35.322 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we were there a couple months ago. 01:35.883 --> 01:36.963 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, you know what? 01:37.324 --> 01:38.545 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm throwing caution to the wind. 01:38.565 --> 01:39.986 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going straight to the slot machine. 01:40.226 --> 01:40.867 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get it. 01:41.387 --> 01:42.768 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I've never played a slot machine. 01:43.208 --> 01:49.191 [SPEAKER_00]: Evidence by the fact I didn't know how to play the slot machine and it seems to me that I'm, you just unplugged it. 01:49.331 --> 02:06.340 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, 02:09.282 --> 02:32.568 [SPEAKER_01]: that that's my story and everyone's like thanks for sharing but just that's my gambling history if you've ever been have you ever been a gambler yeah it's usually went well now not a gambler but like when it's there like we're on a cruise ship once we were visiting Monte Carlo once and there's a long time ago so I would my thing I like to play blackjack and his five dollars a hand so 02:33.148 --> 02:37.490 [SPEAKER_01]: I would just take 20 whole dollars and maybe it was 50. 02:37.530 --> 02:38.090 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember. 02:38.510 --> 02:40.691 [SPEAKER_01]: And once that's gone, it's gone. 02:40.931 --> 02:42.692 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was gone. 02:43.432 --> 02:44.633 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't believe that. 02:44.753 --> 02:45.453 [SPEAKER_01]: It was gone. 02:45.953 --> 02:51.836 [SPEAKER_01]: And my wife just dropped machines in Monaco, and just like you came away ahead. 02:52.916 --> 02:54.397 [SPEAKER_01]: and wouldn't let me have any of hers. 02:54.477 --> 02:58.338 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yes, you have a different experience than I do. 02:58.998 --> 03:01.878 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a loser, is known as the loser, is what I'm saying. 03:01.898 --> 03:02.479 [SPEAKER_01]: The loser, I'm a liar. 03:02.999 --> 03:05.219 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I hear you on, I hear you on that. 03:05.299 --> 03:15.302 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I bring this up one just because so we can laugh, but also, we do parents probably are age, your age, my age, a little younger age. 03:15.662 --> 03:19.266 [SPEAKER_00]: We'd probably come with some preconceived notions on gambling. 03:19.606 --> 03:23.129 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever that might look like, and this is for me, you know, oh, this is bad. 03:23.169 --> 03:26.052 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a big sin. 03:26.092 --> 03:27.173 [SPEAKER_00]: This is all these things. 03:27.774 --> 03:36.963 [SPEAKER_00]: And what I'm finding and telling you from your practice if you are to, I'm finding that lots and lots of kids in particular boys that I'm finding. 03:37.083 --> 03:38.264 [SPEAKER_00]: They, they gamble. 03:38.425 --> 03:39.746 [SPEAKER_00]: They, you know, go to, 03:40.126 --> 03:55.193 [SPEAKER_00]: the casinos for us they're in Oklahoma and just you know go for the evening or whatever or maybe they get groups together and they play poker whatever and they have money and I don't whether or not that's a form of gambling we can talk about that or lots of betting on sports. 03:55.813 --> 03:57.013 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it more common now? 03:57.214 --> 03:58.414 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it something different? 03:58.634 --> 04:00.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously then what it was when we grew up? 04:01.009 --> 04:17.497 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, as I talk about so many times, smartphones are just the main of my existence and apps that allow for betting, starting with even a little inside kind of betting things within a game, 04:18.137 --> 04:21.280 [SPEAKER_01]: That are not actually it's not a betting app, but it's part of a game. 04:21.941 --> 04:34.933 [SPEAKER_01]: Like so many things, it scales things up and so Yeah, we've had a significant rise in teenage Gambling when you talk about going to a casino, of course automatically you're talking about 18 and over 04:35.553 --> 04:58.685 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've not had a lot of kids that are using their fake idea to get into a casino, but one of the reasons is you don't have to do that, it is very easy to find a website or an app, especially those that tap into an offshore gambling where they're not careful about age verification, that kind of thing. 04:59.745 --> 05:10.534 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, it's scaled up because we all have amazing devices that allow us to get into things that just were not possible 20 years ago. 05:11.635 --> 05:15.218 [SPEAKER_00]: And so just the big broad question is, do we need to calm down? 05:15.238 --> 05:18.761 [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't your Sunday School Class from the Baptist Church in the 80s. 05:19.302 --> 05:22.544 [SPEAKER_00]: Or is it like, hey, no, we got to pay attention to this. 05:22.705 --> 05:25.427 [SPEAKER_00]: This can quickly become a problem. 05:25.910 --> 05:44.833 [SPEAKER_01]: See, I'm glad the way you put that, because I still know some folks that, you know, kind of freak out over a false kind of righteousness, and if he would ever play penny any poker with friends, you know, I thought he was a Christian, you know, and yeah, that's not anything to worry about. 05:45.333 --> 05:51.254 [SPEAKER_01]: But on the other hand, with all of the cautions we always talk about on this show, is that 05:54.955 --> 06:07.383 [SPEAKER_01]: But there is, again, estimates are very difficult, but there could be as much as between one and five percent of teenagers that are regularly using it in a detrimental way. 06:07.503 --> 06:19.090 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would say it's definitely something to keep your eyes open for and what we'll talk more about in a minute is that you keep your eyes open for real compulsive levels of use. 06:20.411 --> 06:47.226 [SPEAKER_01]: not that you know again like you know if you go to a graduation sometimes I think one of my kids junior high graduation party they had a casino set up thing with chips that you can buy at toy whatever and so that's not always a gateway it's not like you have to be that kind of fearful but yeah you can surprise it can surprise many parents 06:47.966 --> 06:57.672 [SPEAKER_01]: to stumble across a significant level of secret gambling that's been going on for quite a while and it is really concerning, obviously. 06:58.212 --> 06:58.412 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 06:59.052 --> 07:13.841 [SPEAKER_00]: Do adolescent brains, did they have a vulnerability towards addiction when it comes to gambling more than maybe you and I would have or even maybe younger, not that a lot younger is, but is there a bigger risk there because of their age and their brain make up? 07:14.163 --> 07:31.744 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, here's a time, because as you know, my whole people overdoing their what they think is brain, I'm going to say, yeah, it is partly a difficulty, because frontal lobe is part of what does help to kind of regulate, especially. 07:32.785 --> 07:39.290 [SPEAKER_01]: gambling, anything that's addictive like that is going to basically deliver a dopamine hit of some kind. 07:39.751 --> 07:44.234 [SPEAKER_01]: Because, you know, if you think about it, it's easy to think about if a drug is doing that. 07:44.735 --> 07:55.203 [SPEAKER_01]: But what is it that's about this, you know, you've got cards in your hand or a machine that you're pulling this handle on, what is that that makes it so addictive? 07:55.323 --> 07:57.124 [SPEAKER_01]: It is the dopamine hit 08:00.487 --> 08:05.795 [SPEAKER_01]: where it delivers that, and then the brain does, if you do it a lot. 08:06.746 --> 08:19.315 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the first stage of gambling is when people feel like they're really winning and sometimes you'll win big, like say, you know, you won $100 and so we'll talk in five years because you're going to definitely need to be lost. 08:19.415 --> 08:21.556 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't quit anytime I want to do that. 08:21.616 --> 08:29.782 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's so funny you should say that that's the first step of dinner, all right, we're getting off track, but it does, it's exciting, it feels good. 08:30.462 --> 08:42.745 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, when, for whatever reason, you want to do it over and over again, we know that the brain does not continually enjoy that, the same hit, it resets its baseline. 08:43.105 --> 08:50.526 [SPEAKER_01]: So now you have to have more winning, more risk, all that kind of thing, to feel that same dopamine hit. 08:50.926 --> 08:54.767 [SPEAKER_01]: And yes, so teenagers are somewhat more vulnerable, 08:55.207 --> 09:05.551 [SPEAKER_01]: I really don't like, as you know, I don't want to contribute to any of this false, almost talking like teenagers are brain damaged individuals they are not. 09:06.652 --> 09:09.353 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, kings have ruled countries at 16 years old. 09:09.433 --> 09:14.355 [SPEAKER_01]: So the key though is that, yeah, it is a particular thing to be cautious about. 09:14.735 --> 09:17.837 [SPEAKER_01]: And obviously, one of the big reasons is, it is illegal. 09:18.677 --> 09:34.912 [SPEAKER_01]: So it falls in the category of things that parents definitely if you've got a teenager that is trying to talk to you about it's no big deal we just go on this website and whatever and all this kind of thing starting with number one if it's of any kind of regulated 09:35.612 --> 09:38.095 [SPEAKER_01]: real gambling place or app. 09:38.515 --> 09:40.898 [SPEAKER_01]: You're not supposed to be doing this at all. 09:41.018 --> 09:42.199 [SPEAKER_01]: It is illegal for you. 09:42.760 --> 09:48.065 [SPEAKER_01]: So a parent's restriction of that would simply be the same as, you know, I'm not going to buy you cigarettes. 09:48.126 --> 09:52.170 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to let you gamble to the degree that I can control it. 09:52.815 --> 09:55.936 [SPEAKER_00]: and illegal for 18-year-olds, but under 18. 09:56.136 --> 09:56.756 [SPEAKER_01]: Under 18. 09:57.117 --> 09:57.697 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, got it. 09:58.137 --> 10:08.681 [SPEAKER_00]: OK. And then one other question on this teens, is there a certain personality type that you think is more prone towards this as more susceptible, like, let's say, even our ADHD kids, that kind of thing? 10:09.272 --> 10:12.635 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's not exactly ADHD, but it's in that category. 10:12.676 --> 10:27.591 [SPEAKER_01]: We know that there is a kind of experience, prone personality type that you can kind of see it on personality tests that tends to be impulsive, seeking, intensity, activity seeking. 10:28.051 --> 10:31.355 [SPEAKER_01]: That kind of thing does have more of a tendency toward that, yeah. 10:32.766 --> 10:38.271 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's talk about for now our teens that are under 18. 10:38.331 --> 10:42.575 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you've got a teen that's like, listen, I have a job. 10:42.775 --> 10:46.178 [SPEAKER_00]: I work at the sonic and I, it's my 10 bucks. 10:46.218 --> 10:46.819 [SPEAKER_00]: That was funny. 10:46.879 --> 10:49.581 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was like, I was loaded here. 10:49.661 --> 10:49.842 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 10:50.702 --> 10:51.883 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got money to watch. 10:51.903 --> 10:53.063 [SPEAKER_01]: I got my skate song. 10:53.323 --> 10:54.364 [SPEAKER_01]: I am making money. 10:54.724 --> 10:54.984 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 10:55.525 --> 10:57.325 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's my 10 bucks. 10:57.766 --> 10:58.446 [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone's doing it. 10:58.486 --> 10:59.306 [SPEAKER_00]: Who really cares? 10:59.767 --> 11:01.347 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that whole thing. 11:01.427 --> 11:02.748 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you kind of just answered that. 11:02.808 --> 11:03.688 [SPEAKER_00]: But this falls under. 11:03.829 --> 11:04.469 [SPEAKER_00]: It's illegal. 11:04.909 --> 11:05.369 [SPEAKER_00]: I care. 11:06.190 --> 11:06.770 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not doing it. 11:06.910 --> 11:17.236 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't even add to that that if you do discover that your kid has, to your best knowledge, you know, done this one or two times. 11:17.336 --> 11:20.058 [SPEAKER_01]: I think your first intervention is to really talk about it. 11:21.279 --> 11:32.746 [SPEAKER_01]: For all teenagers, feeding them out parents know this, you do want to avoid unnecessarily humiliating this teenager with a speech you would give to a eight-year-old who's picking up a snake. 11:33.246 --> 11:48.469 [SPEAKER_01]: like you know this is something that you might it's not going to kill you if you communicate that hey I think I get it I know it's kind of fun and I get it that everyone's doing it but we are going to have to you know however you decide to take care but we're going to have to 11:49.490 --> 11:56.137 [SPEAKER_01]: use the software on your phone to make sure to the degree that you're not doing it and did, we're just worried for you. 11:56.257 --> 12:07.329 [SPEAKER_01]: I was thinking about this, this is one of the times because kids that are really doing lots of gambling are doing it secretly, very secretly, and so these are the times that 12:09.771 --> 12:13.194 [SPEAKER_01]: a plant emancipation, really giving respect in those freedoms. 12:14.054 --> 12:22.500 [SPEAKER_01]: It can go a long way to increase to the best you can, the effectiveness of your communication. 12:23.141 --> 12:35.290 [SPEAKER_01]: You should have a teenager that is relatively comfortable talking to you about things, even that you don't agree on together because you have outlines, you know, a list of things that we told you. 12:35.950 --> 12:38.851 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I would keep your room like that if I were you. 12:38.931 --> 12:40.252 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't listen to that music. 12:40.292 --> 12:45.733 [SPEAKER_01]: Those aren't the kind of friends I would, but we've already told you you're now 16 or 17. 12:45.813 --> 12:48.494 [SPEAKER_01]: So these are things that you choose for yourself. 12:48.914 --> 13:01.999 [SPEAKER_01]: The whole point of that is to increase your potential impact when you are talking about something that you're saying, no, I'm telling you, if we find out this again, we may go to a therapist I'm concerned for you. 13:02.860 --> 13:10.335 [SPEAKER_01]: You don't sound as easy to put in the context of, oh, that's just my mom, who's always saying stuff. 13:10.716 --> 13:13.422 [SPEAKER_01]: You can increase the effectiveness of your voice in this. 13:14.093 --> 13:14.853 [SPEAKER_00]: just my mom. 13:14.873 --> 13:17.194 [SPEAKER_00]: She wouldn't even buy a lottery ticket for 20 years. 13:17.514 --> 13:17.715 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 13:18.575 --> 13:21.616 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so what, someone's listening to this and I'm like, I don't know. 13:21.656 --> 13:22.597 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that my kid is. 13:22.617 --> 13:23.577 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if they aren't. 13:23.777 --> 13:27.819 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I assume that your advice is going to be, let's start having conversations around it. 13:28.419 --> 13:31.120 [SPEAKER_00]: And, and just kind of feel it out. 13:31.160 --> 13:31.821 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that what you would say? 13:31.841 --> 13:32.501 [SPEAKER_00]: Where do we start? 13:33.141 --> 13:34.082 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it hurts. 13:34.222 --> 13:35.883 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, it's really important. 13:35.923 --> 13:41.246 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a overall, the kids that may have had some contact with gambling is high. 13:41.926 --> 13:54.333 [SPEAKER_01]: But doing some in-game gambling thing in a fortnight or something doesn't count the same as, oh, that's definitely going to blow up into addiction. 13:54.773 --> 14:02.755 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think most parents, yeah, you could use it as an opportunity to ask about it and talk about it. 14:03.116 --> 14:05.376 [SPEAKER_01]: But I definitely would not go searching. 14:05.436 --> 14:13.979 [SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have evidence that there's, you know, there's a lot of money missing, you know, he's suddenly up and sold his 14:14.819 --> 14:17.263 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, it's computer, you know, something like that. 14:17.844 --> 14:27.499 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't go digging for it, because again, I was talking to some parents the other day, really, I don't know why I don't talk to any parents that aren't good caring people. 14:27.539 --> 14:29.602 [SPEAKER_01]: They why also they talking to me. 14:30.263 --> 14:40.491 [SPEAKER_01]: But they ended up kind of chuckling at themselves how this good kid, they take everything with, okay, does that mean he's about to go to jail? 14:40.511 --> 14:41.591 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, they just worry. 14:42.052 --> 14:50.738 [SPEAKER_01]: And so with that caution, then yeah, it's probably worthwhile to casually mention, you could use this podcast, hey, we're listening to that podcast. 14:50.758 --> 14:51.659 [SPEAKER_01]: They were talking about gambling. 14:51.679 --> 14:53.200 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that even a thing among your friends? 14:53.520 --> 14:58.083 [SPEAKER_01]: You obviously can't hurt with that, but I would not use this by any means as 14:59.024 --> 15:26.400 [SPEAKER_00]: our really good kid that you know we get along with well we decided to confiscate his phone and look for any possible gambling app that's there's no need for that yeah yeah okay and then what about we're still talking on kids under 18 what about the the kid that you realize oh they've lost a lot of money like they've been doing this I was aware but I didn't know how much was going on whatever what do you do in that situation with the kid that really is kind of deep into 15:27.096 --> 15:34.120 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think it's important to keep in mind what you said that if you have a kid that is under 18, this isn't even legal yet. 15:34.821 --> 15:41.004 [SPEAKER_01]: And they have actually already compulsively into the point where they are losing big time. 15:41.545 --> 15:45.487 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not the same as someone who is over 18 and losing. 15:45.607 --> 15:46.067 [SPEAKER_01]: They're both bad. 15:47.068 --> 16:05.385 [SPEAKER_01]: But the first one is a kind of compulsion and losing or that kind of bad habit that is still has to be secretive and under restriction and all that kind of thing once they turn 18, then that can very likely explode. 16:06.366 --> 16:09.289 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very similar to drinking as we've said on this program. 16:09.629 --> 16:11.751 [SPEAKER_01]: Teenagers do not drink, they get drunk. 16:12.472 --> 16:32.393 [SPEAKER_01]: and drunk is also a kind of dopamine hit and when kids you know we'll talk to me about well I don't only drink on a weekend or whatever I'm like yeah you drink every opportunity you have so that once you turn 21 you'll have tons of opportunity same thing gambling if there happened to be stealthy and secretive and whatever 16:32.833 --> 16:39.295 [SPEAKER_01]: and then all of a sudden can join a bunch of people heading out to a casino at 18 that have it's not going to get better. 16:39.375 --> 16:40.456 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to get far worse. 16:40.516 --> 16:47.438 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would take very seriously if you suddenly discover some large credit card debt, something that they've lost. 16:48.098 --> 16:54.760 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a pretty quick trip to a therapist for evaluation for psychologists about this. 16:54.941 --> 17:01.683 [SPEAKER_01]: It's again, not that their life is over, but you want to definitely set a real strong statement. 17:02.283 --> 17:09.350 [SPEAKER_01]: that this is not okay and you're out $700, I can't even believe this, so we need an evaluation from somebody. 17:09.787 --> 17:21.069 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, and then we're not gonna panic about like the stuff that's in video games and they call them skins and loot boxes all that kind of stuff the end game purchases. 17:21.089 --> 17:26.150 [SPEAKER_00]: We're probably not going to freak out about that What about like fantasy football leagues? 17:26.190 --> 17:34.191 [SPEAKER_00]: I know a lot of our kids are involved in those and there's money involved in those It is that fall under the let's not lose our mind ever something that's not so glad you asked that. 17:34.451 --> 17:37.112 [SPEAKER_01]: I think fantasy football fantasy sports things 17:38.172 --> 17:39.273 [SPEAKER_01]: for most kids. 17:39.474 --> 17:41.035 [SPEAKER_01]: It is the social aspect. 17:41.496 --> 17:46.581 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I knew some kids that would borrow their dad's office conference room. 17:46.922 --> 17:52.347 [SPEAKER_01]: They had some, you know, video screen set up where they were showing it. 17:52.387 --> 17:54.910 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like they were pretending to be little, you know, 17:55.911 --> 18:21.079 [SPEAKER_01]: team managers and it was all just a social thing and I think that's great that there are some kids however that do get into light fantasy football on an app or on a computer which I just hate that I mean much you rather you have a bunch of index cards and stuff but nobody does that anymore so I think that's not that that would be more to be discouraged and certainly 18:23.160 --> 18:30.246 [SPEAKER_01]: If you and your friends have all agreed that the winner gets 50 bucks or you know, we all had to contribute. 18:30.566 --> 18:37.291 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't panic about that, especially just basically evaluate what is the amount of this that is a social thing. 18:38.052 --> 18:39.933 [SPEAKER_01]: and to that degree I think it's fine. 18:40.293 --> 18:47.815 [SPEAKER_01]: If they get together and want to play poker together, again, I would be careful first with how, is that the only thing we do? 18:48.015 --> 18:49.615 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you ever play without money? 18:50.195 --> 18:51.956 [SPEAKER_01]: And how much what are the limits here? 18:52.696 --> 18:56.557 [SPEAKER_01]: So that if it's a social thing, we do it once a month, we like it. 18:56.837 --> 18:58.338 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't flip out about that. 18:59.098 --> 19:14.590 [SPEAKER_01]: But I would just be careful about that becoming, like I say, you want to watch for compulsive, which means it's no longer paying off, but I'm still doing it because of a almost felt need to keep getting that same hit. 19:15.303 --> 19:21.270 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and you kind of are entering the question I was going to ask next, but just let's clarify, hone in on this a little bit. 19:22.151 --> 19:34.885 [SPEAKER_00]: Warning signs, thanks to be watching that it's become a gambling problem, or I mean, you're, I would assume secretive, hiding, hiding what we're doing as well as maybe debt, anything else you're watching for? 19:35.165 --> 20:00.053 [SPEAKER_01]: yet anything that's illegal like you're on a website you're not supposed to be on and like any of these addictions you know you can you can be surprised as parents you can talk to a kid who may be very involved with it uh... and and a kind of denial goes with that and if you ever talk to someone and i i've talked to an adult that was hundreds of thousands of dollars down in gambling 20:00.773 --> 20:17.843 [SPEAKER_01]: and still try with a straight face talk to me about how it's it's a thing I do it's fun you know I don't get drunk that's so that's good and you're just stunned by the denial and so don't be surprised if you're 20:18.723 --> 20:44.017 [SPEAKER_01]: kid that is illegally doing it will tell you that well it's not really illegal it's offshore everyone does it whatever you'll hear some surprising defenses of it and I always recommend a parents don't try to convince someone that is compulsively drawn into it because denial is actually kind of contagious parents will actually come away with their 20:45.658 --> 20:49.821 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you did say it's better than robbing stores. 20:49.901 --> 20:51.942 [SPEAKER_01]: Or something, you're like, where did you even get that? 20:52.503 --> 20:52.723 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 20:53.363 --> 20:54.904 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's helpful. 20:55.605 --> 21:03.871 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, when you mentioned someone you've talked to face to face, and they're all this in debt, and all that, this is what my kids say all the time. 21:03.911 --> 21:09.935 [SPEAKER_00]: That I find the one worst case scenario in anything that's going on, and I'm like, well, let me tell you a story. 21:10.810 --> 21:13.312 [SPEAKER_01]: And I tell him, and Cynthia has stories. 21:13.793 --> 21:14.514 [SPEAKER_00]: I have stories. 21:14.554 --> 21:16.896 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to drive after midnight and Dallas, Texas? 21:17.416 --> 21:19.558 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me tell you about the wrong way, crash, less weekend. 21:20.119 --> 21:22.040 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to go camping? 21:22.160 --> 21:23.582 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me tell you about the tree that fell. 21:23.962 --> 21:28.826 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, and as I feel like your stories are losing their impact is what you tell me. 21:28.986 --> 21:30.228 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never been told that. 21:30.288 --> 21:32.890 [SPEAKER_00]: So I've never experienced that. 21:33.310 --> 21:45.781 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about the kids that are over 18 and so, you know, we're trying to work toward, or even the senior in high school, we're working towards freedoms, you're going to go to college and do whatever you want or you're going to be out in the working force or whatever you're doing next. 21:46.222 --> 21:51.066 [SPEAKER_00]: So what are we going to do with these that are either either either out of the home or real close to out of the home? 21:51.515 --> 22:00.246 [SPEAKER_01]: See, okay, that's a really good example where I think it would be very hard for parents of post-high school graduated kids. 22:00.806 --> 22:07.054 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's say your freshman is coming home, is home this summer from their college or whatever they're doing. 22:08.901 --> 22:21.954 [SPEAKER_01]: I would recommend that you continue to use the power of what you do, that you, well, all right, number one, always, always take into account what's the most effective. 22:22.595 --> 22:27.099 [SPEAKER_01]: So I found out my 19 year old, they, they just go and gamble all the time and whatever. 22:27.139 --> 22:28.301 [SPEAKER_01]: So I shut that down. 22:28.801 --> 22:31.402 [SPEAKER_01]: really, what did you do exactly? 22:31.862 --> 22:34.424 [SPEAKER_01]: Or even the parent that would say do I just let them do that? 22:34.924 --> 22:36.925 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not a matter of letting them do that. 22:37.325 --> 22:42.948 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a matter of you don't have the ability to not let them do that and recognizing that. 22:43.408 --> 22:47.890 [SPEAKER_01]: So in that kind of case, I think you really want to lean on that 22:48.835 --> 23:05.030 [SPEAKER_01]: a little bit unusually gambling requires money that's that's an essential part of it and depending upon how much your teenager or makes our your post high school kid is still relying on you as what I like to call a benevolent bank. 23:05.911 --> 23:15.775 [SPEAKER_01]: then it's very reasonable to talk to, you know, instead of getting into some moral argument about, you know, you're being sinful. 23:16.335 --> 23:22.338 [SPEAKER_01]: You do a lot better to say that, okay, well, you still live here, which is money. 23:23.458 --> 23:25.519 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, these things that we're providing. 23:26.179 --> 23:32.982 [SPEAKER_01]: So if we discover that you continue to do this at this level, again, I would assume it's a problematic level. 23:35.123 --> 23:43.846 [SPEAKER_01]: start talking about the only real power move you have left, which is realistically limiting, we're not going to pay for anything else. 23:44.026 --> 24:01.451 [SPEAKER_01]: Just be serious about, you know, we may have to cut back on the kind of support we're offering you because you're you're you're involving yourself in a what you call a game, but gaming requires people who have lots of expendable cash and 24:02.799 --> 24:13.622 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and then let's then also address, let's say the the kids that are headed to for us, it's Oklahoma or wherever, you know, they're going to the casinos that kind of thing. 24:14.062 --> 24:21.065 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I appreciate what you said earlier, it's a slippery slope with fantasy football and all these other things you want your kids out and socializing and doing things. 24:22.991 --> 24:47.821 [SPEAKER_00]: yet at the same time right and you you have to think through that and and I'm thinking of specific examples and my and my family's lives of kids we know that do all they get a group and they go you know in the summer they go a local home and they get a sense I don't think if it ain't that I know of has a problem they're great kids like I don't think they're getting in a lot of trouble like is this is this the hill to die on if they're over 18 what should we be looking for yeah 24:48.181 --> 24:49.642 [SPEAKER_01]: How do we deal with that? 24:49.922 --> 24:53.503 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's not something to, again, you really can't dial that ill. 24:53.943 --> 25:01.466 [SPEAKER_01]: If, if, definitely if your kid is pretty self-sufficient, then you're really going to be communicating about it. 25:02.806 --> 25:05.367 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a big fan of the casino kind of thing. 25:05.687 --> 25:09.229 [SPEAKER_01]: As a psychologist, I'm always aware of things like 25:10.909 --> 25:18.370 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know if I've actually been in a casino, I've been in a cruise ship type, where it's kind of like a casino. 25:18.730 --> 25:23.991 [SPEAKER_01]: But I always notice in place when I drive by, there's not big windows in casinos. 25:24.471 --> 25:26.432 [SPEAKER_01]: There's not clocks in casinos. 25:27.892 --> 25:31.833 [SPEAKER_01]: They're the same temperature in the same lighting 24-7. 25:32.113 --> 25:34.433 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's not an accident. 25:34.533 --> 25:37.594 [SPEAKER_01]: And I always think it's important to talk to teenagers 25:40.175 --> 25:46.380 [SPEAKER_01]: the danger of it, but I always like to point out to young adults that don't like to be controlled. 25:47.521 --> 25:52.146 [SPEAKER_01]: The thing they're doing is absolutely intentionally controlling. 25:53.227 --> 25:58.211 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you come short of calling them a sucker, but that's kind of what that is. 25:58.712 --> 26:05.137 [SPEAKER_01]: If you do, like we like to go to New Mexico and there's places with lots of casinos, it is stunning. 26:06.378 --> 26:08.239 [SPEAKER_01]: the consistency of cars there. 26:08.259 --> 26:12.442 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we were driving by on a Christmas morning and there was cars there. 26:12.522 --> 26:16.804 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, wow, there's no holiday from gambling. 26:16.924 --> 26:20.666 [SPEAKER_01]: You're always always doing it and it's kind of creepy. 26:21.278 --> 26:21.858 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. 26:22.899 --> 26:25.820 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll leave it at that unless you have anything else you want to add. 26:25.940 --> 26:27.921 [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if this is helpful to you. 26:27.941 --> 26:34.705 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm willing to give a link to all the stories I have for every scenario that your kid gets into. 26:34.725 --> 26:35.585 [SPEAKER_00]: Does anybody need that? 26:35.705 --> 26:39.007 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's wait wait on that and let's see if we get any response. 26:39.047 --> 26:40.107 [SPEAKER_01]: But thank you. 26:40.328 --> 26:40.868 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for that. 26:41.468 --> 26:52.120 [SPEAKER_00]: just here to serve all right and you know what going in line with this we're going to talk about in our next show is sneaky teams the sneaky things they do We key stuff. 26:52.560 --> 27:01.329 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're headed that direction next so if if you're thinking gambling or any other sneaky behavior We're gonna talk about it next so thank you so much doctor can we appreciate the year