[SPEAKER_01]: there and welcome to our show.
[SPEAKER_01]: The shit no one tells you about writing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm best selling author, Bianca Marie, and I'm joined by CC Lira of Wendy Sherman Associates and Carly Waters of PS Literary.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi everyone, welcome back to another box for cook segment.
[SPEAKER_01]: As per usual we are diving straight in.
[SPEAKER_01]: CC will you please kick us off?
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Your advice, along with the lovely Carly Waters and Bianca Moray, has whipped my query into shape.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now, I'd love to know if it passes muster.
[SPEAKER_02]: I chose CC because of her fondness for dark unsettling novels and complicated sister relationships.
[SPEAKER_02]: My book explores abandonment, parentification, and how control can curdle love into something predatory.
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Overwoods, where your deepest darkest fears don't just haunt you, they hunt.
[SPEAKER_02]: The whistling dark is an 80,000-word horror
[SPEAKER_02]: It blends the generational trauma found in Andy Davidson's The Hollow Kind, with the isolation from Johanna Van Vien's My Darling dreadful thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: It will appeal to fans of the old gods of Appalachia podcast and anyone who suspects the scariest monsters can be the ones who say they love you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bowie Burnham doesn't believe in spirits.
[SPEAKER_02]: She fled Kyle and the West Virginia Hills years ago, trading small town superstitions for the ordered life of a Chicago accountant.
[SPEAKER_02]: But when her sister, now the host of a paranormal podcast invites her home, Bowie can't refuse.
[SPEAKER_02]: Family runs deep in Appalachia even when it's fractured.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Amber is the only can she has left.
[SPEAKER_02]: Amber has promised six lucky fans
[SPEAKER_02]: Legend says the mother turned monster so's her victims faces shut and traps them in the overwoods.
[SPEAKER_02]: A forest stitched over hours like a second skint, but Bowie knows the truth, the woods are where the drunk hunters and foolish flatlanders get lost.
[SPEAKER_02]: And widow Rake, she fabricated the damn story.
[SPEAKER_02]: That monster is no more real than her mama's promises to stay sober.
[SPEAKER_02]: At least, that's what Bowie tells herself, until the whistling starts.
[SPEAKER_02]: Soon, the scarecrows don't stay where they're staked, fuel lines get slashed, and guests vanish into the fog.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bowie suspects Amber is manipulating events for internet fame.
[SPEAKER_02]: But when the first body appears, gutted like a deer, the overwoods stop looking like folklore.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even Kyle, the drug Boe could never quit, begins to believe.
[SPEAKER_02]: As the trees close in, Boe realizes the overwoods doesn't attract monsters.
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes them.
[SPEAKER_02]: And something has been waiting to bring her home.
[SPEAKER_02]: By day, I'm an award-winning political journalist who writes about energy issues in a Palashia.
[SPEAKER_02]: By night, I'm a horror superfan and freelance station editor.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I'm not writing, you can find me hiking.
[SPEAKER_02]: Baking or wrangling, too wild, but wonderful, tiny, humics.
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome, CC, thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always struggle so much with the pronunciation of Appalachia.
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to say that and then David Joy corrected me and it was like, it's Appalachia.
[SPEAKER_01]: And people say it in wildly different ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I know, and that's because you're outside, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nope, so the thing, it's kind of like New Orleans.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people say New Orleans, it was in New Orleans.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it
[SPEAKER_02]: It varies wildly.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know this because I, in my school, there were people from like all over the states, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like literally every part of the states that you can imagine.
[SPEAKER_02]: And because everyone was the next bat.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, I remember being like, I thought they were different places when I was really young.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I was seven or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like these are different places because they sound so different.
[SPEAKER_02]: And everyone just says it differently.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure we'll get comments on the YouTube channel below like showing us exactly like apple, lacer, apple, lacer, spell it out for us guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure we don't embarrass ourselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you have to live there to tell us how to pronounce it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't be telling us how to pronounce it if you don't live there.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is for people who live there, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so C.C.
[SPEAKER_01]: How many words was that?
[SPEAKER_01]: And give us your take on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was 411 words.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so if you're on YouTube, you might have seen me suppress a smile when I read the very very first paragraph that paragraph that's just for the podcast is person would obviously not include this paragraph on a real query letter and the reason is because I received a very
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just going to say it, a very mean DM the other day about how everyone has been talking about how we read these paragraphs addressed to us on the podcast and it's so cringe that they feel so bad for writers who have to like, gosh, about us before we will critique their work and anyway, it was a very long DM which I did not respond, I don't respond to most DMs that don't have time and anyway,
[SPEAKER_02]: The reason why I suppressed the smile is because my first reaction was like, oh my god, do people think they have to write the very nice paragraph like, nobody has to write that very nice paragraph.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they do it because because they want to and then my second thought was why am I overthinking this person's rude DM.
[SPEAKER_02]: In case anyone out there thinks that they have to gush, you really don't.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so appreciated because kind words are always appreciated.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are human beings.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I promise I speak for Bianca and Carly when I say, you do not have to write nice things about us.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you do not want to, it is not going to influence our judgment of your pages anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had to say, I had to say it after reading that and going like, apparently everyone's been talking about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, like, why?
[SPEAKER_02]: Wasn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I assume that there's a reddit out there about us somewhere that I've never been to and I never want to go to it ever So I'm like, are people saying stuff about us that we just don't need to care about and that's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's just it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to influence my decision on anything, same pictures of raccoons As part of your query later, and that will highly influence.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably the only thing that will influence me otherwise it's really not okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really like the welcome to the Overworlds where your deepest darkest fears don't just haunt you, they hunt, it's very short.
[SPEAKER_02]: And while I do like metadata first, if it's like a very, very short sale as a line, it can be really interesting so I thought the person's really good job here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I looked up the sales for the two combs, the hollow kind and my darling dreadful things.
[SPEAKER_02]: My darling dreadful things sold really well.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has 18,000 copies on book scan, obviously.
[SPEAKER_02]: an average.
[SPEAKER_02]: The hollow kind of not so much, like it did okay, but it didn't do.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that it sold well enough for you to use it as a comp, so I would maybe take a look and maybe find a different, different comp, just because it's important that your comp have really strong sales.
[SPEAKER_02]: But otherwise, I understand it at a totally why you picked them, I looked up the books, I haven't read them, but I looked them off and it makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: As reminder, no, books can't, does not capture all sales.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like people know this already because they listen to a podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, one thing that I'm real, I feel very strongly about
[SPEAKER_02]: I really wish the author were here so I can ask her.
[SPEAKER_02]: A protagonist returning home is a wonderful place to start a story, wonderful because there's the contrast of who you used to be and who you are now.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also the pool of the regression that comes with being around people who are part of your childhood.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you made a whole new life for yourself, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But then when you go back, there's always that pool of who I used to be and the way people see me and the projections
[SPEAKER_02]: However, you are using a verb in vites her home, her sister in vites her home.
[SPEAKER_02]: That I personally found a little like, it's almost like it leaks the tension a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: An invitation is something that you can refuse.
[SPEAKER_02]: An invitation can arrive at any time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't feel sufficiently compelling to bring her home.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel very strongly that there should be a reason why she essentially can't say no.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like yes, it should be a choice, but it's one of those choices that like, I have to go back, you know, like I have to.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll get to this when we talk about the pages, but the fact that it's so hard for her to go back, like, just don't go, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: The fact that she has a choice to simply not go because it could be any other time, and she can see her sister potentially in a different scenario.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it leaks attention a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I would reconsider.
[SPEAKER_02]: The verb choice is making it seem like a casual request.
[SPEAKER_02]: If it's intentional, if you want to be a casual request, by all means keep it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the subsequent lines seem to suggest she's being compelled home.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not just merely invited, like she can't refuse.
[SPEAKER_02]: Only can she has left, like, why now?
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess that's my question.
[SPEAKER_02]: The other paragraph, the one that starts with Amber made me think this was dual POV, but I don't think it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if it is, I really want clarity on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's really important to be super clear.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm confused about how far into the story does the body appear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, is it the inciting incident?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if so, that might be coming too late in the query letter I mean.
[SPEAKER_02]: if it's not, then I'm just wondering, like, do we have enough plot points with causality to lead to this?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if it's the climax, do we have enough?
[SPEAKER_02]: I was confused about order, like when exactly this happens.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I always like to do this after I read a query.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't like, what do I know about this story?
[SPEAKER_02]: The protagonist left her superstitious home to lead like a normal life.
[SPEAKER_02]: She returns home.
[SPEAKER_02]: She goes on her sister's podcast retreat thinking the supernatural rumors are nonsense, but then a dead body appears and she begins to believe the woods are actually haunted.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then what?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what is her goal?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why can't she just leave the woods?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like she made that's the biggest question, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: They're in the woods.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why can't they just leave?
[SPEAKER_02]: This place is haunted, this place is messed up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go home.
[SPEAKER_01]: There has to go with the market because there's a bear there and ceases in the woods trying to make friends with the bear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, well, and then the bear, if the bear is there, it becomes a different genre.
[SPEAKER_02]: It becomes a cute story, like a children's book where ceases friends with the bear.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I kind of wanted to know if I'm being super honest, I thought that I think there's a lot of potential in this story, but I thought that this query letter reads, it reads like someone heard the story from someone else and then wrote it.
[SPEAKER_02]: As opposed to the writer wrote it, either that or the writer didn't want to give a spoilers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so they spent a lot of lines on mood and atmosphere, they're really great lines.
[SPEAKER_02]: but didn't really drill down to the plot as much.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's one or the other, that these are my two theories right now, because they were just so many vibes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I've noticed that when you ask someone to share, like, you know, tell me about this story and they haven't actually read this story, they focus on the vibes, they don't focus on the plot.
[SPEAKER_01]: So...
[SPEAKER_01]: Does minutes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, CC.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Kali, handing it across to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, I really like this query.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was very viby, but when you actually drill down, I do actually think there's there is a healthy amount of plot, but it's also a long as query letter and there's a lot going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, CC's already hit a lot of the high notes, but I'll sort of the top with my notes.
[SPEAKER_00]: The whistling dark.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like this title.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little bit worried.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that memorable and I had, you know, I haven't done a deep dive on on good reads or anything like that to see if there's other titles like it, just a reminder to everybody to check your titles on good reads just to make sure, you know, there's nothing else out there that's recent a lot of times people will ask.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, there is something out there like my title, what do I do, then I will usually say, you know, is it going to be published into the same market, meaning, was it a fellow thriller author or author published by big five in the last five years, then we can't really use that title.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it is YA versus adult and there's a very clear delineation between markets and who we're focusing on, potentially you can use the same title.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it is a self-published title, again, that's a different market.
[SPEAKER_00]: So often if there is a self-published title, then you can use it if you're pursuing Trad Pub because these are two different markets.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you see what I'm saying about how we kind of make those decisions.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just some things to think about.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, is this the most memorable?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, next up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really, really like the number of lines here and, you know, I see, I really wish we could go back to the days where we didn't have to talk about AI, every F and podcast, but we do and we have to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like one of the things I think that is going to be so crucial for people to stand out in today's market is how we can demonstrate that there is such a personal touch and such a command of language
[SPEAKER_00]: I choose to believe as an optimist that as an agent, my training has led me to believe that I will know when things are written by humans.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's some lines here that suggest this is so human-authored and such a wonderful way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this line.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyone who suspects the scariest monsters can be the ones who say they love you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So powerful, so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Love that line.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another line.
[SPEAKER_00]: A forest stitched over hours, like a second skin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the whole, you know, to fabricated the damn story, that monster is no more real than her mom is promises to stay sober, love that like there's so many beautiful lines here and I think in this era of how to human authors, I hate that I to say that, how do human authored books stand out in this marketplace?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be things like this where there's just like your demonstrating your ability to be full of craft or just brimming with craft and voice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And these are the things that I'm honestly just trying to be honest with you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are the type of things that I'm going to be looking for as an agent to make sure that I feel
[SPEAKER_00]: the kind of energy being passed from the author to me via this query letter.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I've always imagined query letters.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the energy that the author creates through their manuscript put into the query letter as a sales tool as it comes to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's really an energy transfer.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an energy transfer to the author to me when I pitch the book to an editor.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's another form of energy transfer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I'm getting Google on us.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I really believe in all of these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: the way that authors choose to use language here is going to be just such an important tool and how we kind of make sure that we, you know, stay true to our craft and that's why we're all here and I know there's a lot of fear out there and I just kind of wanted to highlight some of the things that I am looking at because I think this was really well done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wonderful, Carly, thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, CC, we are now discussing what was in those opening pages.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so we have the protagonist in a car with Caroline.
[SPEAKER_02]: She is returning home.
[SPEAKER_02]: She sees scarecrows, like the first, the second, the third, and Caroline's like, you could have warned me about the nightmare scarecrows.
[SPEAKER_02]: Caroline asks her how long has it been since she's seen her sister.
[SPEAKER_02]: Amber, I'm in the protagonist's response, you know, besides the funeral, less Christmas.
[SPEAKER_02]: So she arrives home through interiority.
[SPEAKER_02]: We know that,
[SPEAKER_02]: They had very different mothers in the protagonist and her sister because her their mom got sober.
[SPEAKER_02]: Once her sister was born, her sister is much younger and so they were raised by opposite versions of the same woman.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they arrived.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very clear she does not like her brother in law and yeah, so the front door opens, the sister's there.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's feeling like this was a mistake.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are many, many references to this is a mistake.
[SPEAKER_02]: She shouldn't be here and she's really thankful Caroline's there because she's saying she would not survive the weekend.
[SPEAKER_02]: without Caroline.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that's well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, great.
[SPEAKER_01]: So will you let us know if you think the author starting in the right place and you'll take on that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: The first line is brilliant.
[SPEAKER_02]: The first scarecrow appears five miles outside Welton.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's specific.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's intriguing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's interiority.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's correct.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like the protagonist observing through her own unique lenses.
[SPEAKER_02]: love it.
[SPEAKER_02]: The second line is like to the point of again we read a lot to the point of being like almost showing off because it's so good, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like congratulations to the author.
[SPEAKER_02]: The imagery is so beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: She stands in a yellow hafe field beside fence posts that sag like drunk old men, like beautiful, beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I as an agent read
[SPEAKER_02]: first paragraph that has such beautiful imagery and beautiful writing.
[SPEAKER_02]: What it does to me is I forget I'm reading for work.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just forget, all of a sudden I'm reading for fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: All of a sudden I'm in my bad at night with my book and I'm being transported into a different world and I feel trust because that's what it comes down to.
[SPEAKER_02]: It comes down to me feeling like, oh my god, I can trust this author.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm in their hands of a really talented storyteller who has really
[SPEAKER_02]: engaged their imagination in the story, which means that I can engage my imagination in the story.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm wowed by this person's writing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to now be annoying and picky.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to make clear.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is very good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Your pages are very good.
[SPEAKER_02]: So so good.
[SPEAKER_02]: But now I'm going to be annoying and picky.
[SPEAKER_02]: Coming back to what I said in the query letter.
[SPEAKER_02]: She clearly does not want to be there.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are plenty of references, not too many.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just the right amount.
[SPEAKER_02]: Smart references baked into the scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there are references to she doesn't want to be there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then why is she there?
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, it can't just be a mere weekend, a mere invitation.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's too plough convenient.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oftentimes when I ask storytellers what's the reason she's there?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why does she have to be there?
[SPEAKER_02]: They gave me this look and I can translate the look that look is saying because I need her to be there so the story can happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: That does not cut it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is not compelling enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to come up with the reason why she is actually there internally for her psyche.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right for her family dynamics for her power dynamics like that is essential.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's something to consider as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the other thing, and we talked about this, it was a few months ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: She, the protagonist, is with Caroline in the car.
[SPEAKER_02]: She and Caroline are very close.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Caroline asks,
[SPEAKER_02]: how long since you saw Amber, and she responds besides the funeral last Christmas.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is not believable.
[SPEAKER_02]: When the protagonist invited Caroline, Caroline would have asked, your sister, how long has it been since you saw her?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this conversation would have happened at a different moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: It would not be that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The best friends they would know exactly was going on in each other's life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it would be like, they would know the last time was the funeral because that's common sense between their friendship.
[SPEAKER_02]: hundred percent like and that has actually really good good point because if if she does it know they're not that close or or they are that close and this is the one thing the protagonist is actually withholding because it's the big taboo subject right and then there would be interior you're being like
[SPEAKER_00]: is she is she going to think there's more to the store like what exactly or is like what she does come into town and I had coffee with her but I didn't tell you and I feel guilty about that or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly or even like what was she thinking you know what was she thinking that I don't share this one thing about my sister and I share everything else with her so it just feels quite convenient and again I am the guys because you need to share information
[SPEAKER_02]: But dialogue is not the way to do that because it feels force, it feels artificial.
[SPEAKER_02]: If it's dialogue that wouldn't actually be happening, just share that through interior you're already.
[SPEAKER_02]: Interior you're already can do the heavy lifting.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is what is the magic of books.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also felt that there were a few missed opportunities for curiosity seeds.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for example, Caroline says, you could have warned me about the nightmare scare
[SPEAKER_02]: If so, this is a really good opportunity for a curiosity to see because she could think, imagine what she's going to do when she finds out the other stuff I'm withholding, but not in that, with your brilliant writing.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's just opportunities here and I did highlight them for you, our sub-stacks supporters will see and some of the best things about my job, where I can be like, oh, what if you added something here and then the author does all the work and all I have to do is come up with the idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love my job.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also thought that you did a really wonderful job of conveying the larger culture, the world's mood.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a line that reads, well, it's the kind of place that remembers who your mother was and who she wasn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: The type of town where folks say they're praying for you, what they really mean is they've already gossiped to your business to have the county.
[SPEAKER_02]: That zooming out and conveying the larger culture, brilliant.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, it's baked into a scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, so awesome, so, so awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: Still, the fact that she's returning home makes even less sense to me, because if this is the kind of place you're returning to, why is she going?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and I honestly don't think it's a heavy lift of a fix.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think if you know the reason, if you in your head know, you can actually weave this in and away that won't take up a lot of your time editing.
[SPEAKER_02]: because I know this person's ready to query.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we're asking people, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we're asking people like, where are you in the process?
[SPEAKER_02]: And this author has shared she's ready to query.
[SPEAKER_02]: In terms of the quality of the story, I 100% agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think this foundational motivation of going home needs to be ironed out and you can do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I honestly think you can.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I thought it was really, really good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did wonder, it's a bit more of a change.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have her arriving home.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like a no big deal, not internally, but like externally.
[SPEAKER_02]: She arrives home.
[SPEAKER_02]: Her sister's ready for her.
[SPEAKER_02]: The brother-in-law's there.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're talking.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, I'm not sure that this is the right setup.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I almost wonder what if she arrived home or for some reason, maybe it makes up or something.
[SPEAKER_02]: Her sister wasn't expecting her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she walked into her sister and her brother-in-law having a conversation that they might not want her to see, for example.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it could be something else, but I wanted like surprise and destruction.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted it to be a little bit less neat.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like she was expecting to arrive home.
[SPEAKER_02]: Her sister was expecting her to arrive.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was all very pleasant and lovely.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yes, her interior already has layers.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just felt like, you know, you really want your beginning to leverage surprise.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it's one of those things that if you look at all the great books out there, there's an element of surprise in the linear beginning.
[SPEAKER_02]: Prologues are often the exception, different conversation altogether.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I thought again, very, very good, excellent quality.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think that you could tinker with these elements if you want to elevate it even further.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, CC.
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially so important in those opening pages and not even something that affects the rest of the story, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because like you say, the author knows why the bits and coming back, you just make a clear in opening pages.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a huge change.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've learned from my own work that sometimes is smallest tweaks.
[SPEAKER_01]: A line here, a line there, a paragraph here, the ones that make the biggest difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you overdue it, so I made to read my writing
[SPEAKER_01]: look at something and they had a critique about the scene on the road and so I then completely overdid it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had the three pages and they were like what the hell is this?
[SPEAKER_01]: We just wanted a line or two.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a constant calibration.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the line doesn't even have to give full clarity.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, as long as the interior yardie is saying she has to be there, she has no choice.
[SPEAKER_02]: The explanation can actually come later, but it can't just be missing all together or else I'm like, just go home lady if this place sucks so much, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's to leverage it as a curiosity seed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything you can leverage as a curiosity seed do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Holly handing in the cross to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, lots of great notes already so far, I'll chime in here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Based on the pitch, I was really excited to read, and I think the first paragraph really delivers, and she's already pointed at what a great line it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was really disappointed by the beginning of the dialogue.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like coffee taste like burnt cardboard man like that's that's the same we've heard so many times I really wanted like something with Mr. and Flair or something Appalachian Flair like you know something from Chicago like we just there was so vibey up to that moment And then I read red burnt cardboard and I was like oh
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of a line I heard before, so, you know, can we be more original there?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just a perfect opportunity for us to really start to kind of get into the voice of the character, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because so far, it's very clear you are very, very voicy right, but now we're in the dialogue, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is where we're starting to get what does this character sound like, so that's really, really important.
[SPEAKER_02]: The next thing I'd question about was who is Caroline like to my knowledge.
[SPEAKER_00]: She is not mentioned in the pitch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of went back a few times.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, okay, don't see Caroline mentioned at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: assuming she's a friend, you know, really close friend as we said, but then once we get to the point where they're having conversations and dialogue where they seemingly don't know that much about each other, if they don't know the last time she talked to her sister, how close are these people?
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I was thinking, oh, is Caroline somebody who is a fan of the podcast and just wants to come to this like retreat?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's a different vibe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, no idea who Caroline is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we just need a lot more clear markers here, and it could be both.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be a friend who also loves the podcast and wants to come back for the weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, SCC's already pointed out, which I'm not going to be labor.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is all the stuff that we need to figure out in interiority, which is crucial.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just think there is some opportunities on the first page to really kind of drill down of what you're trying to accomplish here, and I just pointed out too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Line I really liked, you know, a year ago, but we would have bet real money that ghost roots would become a hobby or sister embedded after college.
[SPEAKER_00]: She still can't comprehend how Amber amassed thousands of fans willing to pay for a weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: at the old rake house.
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was very establishing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have liked it on the first page just so we again can kind of understand a little bit more of the stakes of this because I just felt like the dialogue as I said at least I'm going to be discovered and if we can't nail that dialogue, then we need to move that piece up and I've made notes through the pages of, you know, I was like, this is a really good line.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't really good line.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, something that really stood out to me was
[SPEAKER_00]: some dialogue here, so you sure this is it, kind of line asks, that's the very cause, but we doesn't add the rest.
[SPEAKER_00]: really it you know it's not like the rest meaning like what happened in the radicose clearly there's a whole story here really really liked that that was like such an such an example of restraint that like so well done so there's there's just tons of tons of great lines here letting it make another note on page five that says but was most which is a do a smile thank goodness for Caroline she'd never survived the weekend without her
[SPEAKER_00]: Who is Caroline?
[SPEAKER_00]: At this point, I'm like, is Caroline her girlfriend?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was starting to get like, sapphic vibes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like are these days?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they roommates?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they partners in that, you know, that's a person.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why she brought her again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why do Caroline is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to know what Caroline is because I really think that would help a lot in these opening things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to say if the author is listening and she's going to clarify a hook Caroline is, please do your god do not name spleen it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do not add a line.
[SPEAKER_02]: Caroline, my best friend.
[SPEAKER_02]: Carla is not suggesting this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just going to make very, very clear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Caroline, my best friend, set a cross for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please do your god do not do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do not do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Find a subtler way to do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am sure you will because you're so brilliant.
[SPEAKER_02]: Perhaps she could compare how her sister Amber sees her versus how Caroline sees her and be like, it's so interesting how your best friend that you made as an adult sees you differently from your sister who's known to your whole whole life or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Point is, please do your god, no name-splaining people.
[SPEAKER_02]: No name-splaining.
[SPEAKER_02]: You go to jail with name-splaining.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, even I was thinking of a way to kind of subtly work it in, because I think Caroline's driving a fiverr call.
[SPEAKER_00]: There couldn't even be a line about, like, whenever we go in a road trip, Caroline always drives.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something to the effect of, like, showing their closeness or, again, you can kind of elaborate on the last time we went on a road trip to blank or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh sweet Caroline comes on on the radio and she thinks and they start singing along turning and they're like we've always sung this since the third grade when we went on that school trip you know that tells you they've got a lot of history together they've known each other since the third grade or something like that is really organic ways to to build that kind of thing in okay so before we move on to colleagues query later we first have a message from our sponsors
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Collie, will you please read as your query letter?
[SPEAKER_00]: Dear Bianca Carling and CC, your podcast newsletter is not only classes have been an invaluable resource of my quest to become a published author.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for everything you do.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know why I'm laughing?
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have not fast-forwarded through this episode, you know why I'm laughing?
[SPEAKER_00]: They've ruined it!
[SPEAKER_01]: They've ruined it!
[SPEAKER_01]: and a lot of people are for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really want everyone to know that not one of the three of us picks the query letters that we read on the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have exactly incredible one cost assistance Alicia Rosanna.
[SPEAKER_01]: They actually pick it so it's not it's not that good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice words are working on our egos.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Callie, carry on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh and we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: The forest is full of monsters
[SPEAKER_00]: My dual POV young adult romantic fantasy eyes so crimson and cursed is completed in 92,000 words.
[SPEAKER_00]: It combines the menacingly magical forest of where the dark stands still by A.B.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pornek and the rom-com banter of this vicious grace by Emily Thee.
[SPEAKER_00]: All her life 17-year-old Uly's parents had two iron-clad rules, hide your magic and never go into the forest.
[SPEAKER_00]: Breaking either is a death sentence.
[SPEAKER_00]: When her poet infiltrate the warlords' forces goes a rye exposing her magic, she's willing to risk being eaten by monsters for a chance at reaching the castle where her parents are imprisoned.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the worst thing the sentient would steer into her path might be a human.
[SPEAKER_00]: One with crimson eyes, the mark of blood magic, just like the warlord who tore her family apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Raised inside the forest by his immortal ancestor, Kate is determined to gather enough magic to rid himself of his humanity and earn true belonging in the only places ever called home.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just has to survive a crossing, but every attempt has failed.
[SPEAKER_00]: When he encounters Yuli, teaming up could be the answer to both of their problems.
[SPEAKER_00]: She has the healing powers he needs if he has destructive magic she wants to use against her enemies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yuli can't trust a blood mage, but when Kate swears an oak to protect her, she reluctantly agrees to join forces.
[SPEAKER_00]: As they're pursued by the warlords, relentless mage hunters, and stocked by bloodthirsty monsters, Yuli discovers that Kate has his own reasons to hate her foe.
[SPEAKER_00]: She hopes their growing feelings may be the final push he needs to preserve revenge with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: But thanks to their crossing, he's close to reaching his goal of attaining immortality.
[SPEAKER_00]: forcing you to choose between love and rescuing her parents, a task that could be impossible for her to take on a loan.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in AUD HD Err with lifelong love of stories, particular fondness for sword sorceries, and slow burn romance, the fight scenes in my book are informed by my years practising Kinjutsu, including living at a dojo in Japan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Eyes so crimson and curse will be my debut novel.
[SPEAKER_00]: This query is 410 words.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Kali.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great that they gave us the word can there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what is your take on this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, I looked up the comps because this is data category that I am super familiar with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Both of them looked like they were on point recently published, you know, all of the things that we look for.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought that was great.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you said rom-com banter of this vicious grace, I got a little worried.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh, she tried to comp a rom-com when this is a fantasy, but it is a fantasy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is categorically correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just kind of saying it's the rom-com that I'm talking to.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all of that made perfect sense to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of things that I just really like, you know, I like the line, but the worst thing the sentient wood steers into her path might be a human would a great line I absolutely love that I thought was just so well done.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one thing I couldn't quite wrap my head around was this concept of the crossing, I wasn't really sure if this was like a physical crossing or a mental crossing or this was like the body crossing over from, you know, mortal to immortal, I wasn't super clear on that so I would focus on making that more clear for the reader.
[SPEAKER_00]: mistakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're really high and at the end of the day it's kind of like love or immortality, family or love and they also seem like stakes that you can't go back on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like once you've made your decision it seems again based on this pitch that we can't go back on the decision which makes for very very high stakes which I really liked so I thought that was absolutely well done.
[SPEAKER_00]: The last paragraph, the author biopair graph, also really loved it.
[SPEAKER_00]: For the sake of this podcast, I'm assuming you kind of kept the biographical details light.
[SPEAKER_00]: For your future pitches, I would include where you live, and again, if people don't feel comfortable doing that, like a region is always nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got the sense that you don't live in Japan anymore, because,
[SPEAKER_00]: including living energy or it just kind of I wasn't clear on if you're still in Japan or not So I would just try to make that more clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just information that we like to know about writers and just for no other reason just other than it just kind of grounds us in place and it just helps us get to know you a little bit better So for this as I said not being one of the categories I work on a lot I was able to follow along I enjoyed it again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that the stakes were high enough the only thing I might suggest
[SPEAKER_00]: moving around is it takes us until kind of the lower half of the first body paragraph for us to understand that the parents are imprisoned.
[SPEAKER_00]: I might move that up higher because in the first line you said all her life 17-year-old Julie's parents had two ironclad rules.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get the sense that, you know, they are a family unit and then like lines later parents are imprisoned.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if there's a way to kind of incorporate it at the top
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Somehow in that first line, if you can fit in that they're in prison, I think that would just help with the stakes early on because it Clearly affects her boat of action, which I think is very important to establish much earlier, but that's really my notes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a lot of great writing here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Kali.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: CC Yolton.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just want to applaud the note about Moving up the parents being imprisoned because it's buried right now in the paragraph and like That's a really great
[SPEAKER_02]: plot point to highlight because it gives her the motivation like any reader could get behind.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, she is going to have to infiltrate the castle and she is going to have to put herself in danger to save her parents.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it is something that makes us connect emotionally.
[SPEAKER_02]: So don't bury that because you have a great plot.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought this query letter was on the longer side and to be honest there's a lot of excess fat.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did highlight the lines, our sub-stacks supporters will see this that I felt we're moving the story forward.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are many lines that are not.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's true that you need lines to establish who each protagonist is.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, a line about her and a line about him just, you know, establishing their sense of place in the their world.
[SPEAKER_02]: with hints of power dynamic, this is true, but like we're talking one lines, maybe two, they're way too many focused on things that are not moving the story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's, I have two big picture notes and they're actually connected.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're promising me dual POV, which means that in order for this to be successful, I have to be equally invested in both POVs.
[SPEAKER_02]: a great dual POV novel is one where, when I'm in Yulee's POV, I'm like, oh my god, Yulee, yes, I'm invested, I'm rooting for her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then her POV switches to his POV, what is his name again, Kate, Kate.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, oh man, I miss Yulee, but immediately I'm like, oh wow, now I'm really invested in Kate's, and now I'm like Kate, Kate, and then I go back to Yulee, and it's almost like you're choosing between a brownie and a cookie and you love them both.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they're both so awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: They'll weigh your framing this.
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes me think like it's Uly's story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like first, there's way more on her quest with specificity.
[SPEAKER_02]: His quest is very viby right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: But more importantly, the major dramatic question is all focused on Uly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uly has to choose between love and rescuing her parents.
[SPEAKER_02]: First of all, I don't really think that's a choice because this guy doesn't love her if he's not willing to help her like this He's an awful person.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are we supposed to root for them?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we are and I'm not going to root for this big jerk who's not going to help her Did I?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if he has a really big reason why he can't help her then I kind I need a sense of that So it's this is why I'm saying my two notes are connected like I'm more invested in her POV than he is based with a great letter
[SPEAKER_02]: which I would not be concerned about, but if the pages reflect that, then that's a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then too, your query letter needs to have both major dramatic questions for both POVs.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if they're in conflict,
[SPEAKER_02]: you need to be prepared to give me a reason why I'm still rooting for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want me to.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is also not a genre I read in widely, so you are very welcome to ignore my notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyone is always welcome to ignore my notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the line.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have a particular fondness for swords, sorcery, and slow burn romance.
[SPEAKER_02]: What a great line.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the author pair I got can be really simple.
[SPEAKER_02]: the anthropograph is not going to make her break and create letters because it's about story.
[SPEAKER_02]: But sometimes writers find a way to infuse their own personality and great writing in a way that's so tight and it's amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I loved it, I thought it was really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, CC.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Carly, what was in the opening pages?
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so we start in Yule's point of view.
[SPEAKER_00]: We start with kind of a reinforcement of some things that we know, which is the rules that the parents had for her, hydromagic, never go over the forest.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's breaking the first, had ruined everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was determined to obey the second.
[SPEAKER_00]: We start with her kind of foraging, close to the forest for different herbs and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's kind of at the woods.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: metaphysically feeling some energy from the forest but trying to ignore it while she goes about her duties of picking some clovers and things like that as she brings them.
[SPEAKER_00]: she heads back to the place where she seems like she works in a medicinal capacity healing, believe it's kind of like soldiers, and then we find out towards the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: We think it's the opposition soldiers, that she's also healing, but basically she's forging, putting together some sort of like potion of some kind, and then we find out that it will be poisonous to induce vomiting
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, other people get sick and she can kind of take off and so she's not going to follow the rules of staying out of the forest because she is going to take off and so kind of has an interaction with the cook that cook I believe takes some of the potion and then she kind of takes off and sees some kind of ominous soldier type of people in the woods and that's when she takes off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Kali.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, what would you take on them?
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, as you can see by the way that I tried to explain this, I am not clear on a lot of these details.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, a lot of it, I'm like, I think this is what happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's what she was doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this was the intention.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could not tell you definitively some of these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, sometimes as an agent, I think,
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I not sleep enough last night?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I not have enough cups of coffee today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, am I not dialed in enough to kind of fully understand what's going on?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or OCC show it means she has two cups of coffee.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I made one cup of coffee.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then my second one right now is TE because I'm like, how many cups of coffee can I drink before I'm opening up?
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is an example of like, I think the writer was trying to be, you know, maybe, maybe they're trying to think like, how do I elevate this or how do I save some suspense for later?
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've really strongly feel that the first page really just genuinely seems like a normal day in this person's life, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: not like any other day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't find out until much later of what she's forging for things that are poisonous.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the whole point is that she's forging these specific things, trying not to get caught.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's it's I just felt too subtle to be perfectly honest.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's again, not that things wrong with it, but I
[SPEAKER_00]: felt like I read it closely, and yet I still, again, feel like I'm not fully sure in what's happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I would just, you know, if there's anything we can just like tighten a little bit, tighten, tighten, tighten the screws, just so we can really make sure that everybody fully understands what is happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that I think could really help here on the opening page is if you allude to the concept of how did she feel about this being the last time she's going to pick
[SPEAKER_00]: How did she feel about the last time she's going to watch the sunrise from this vantage point?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like something to the illusion of like this is the last time she's doing this because she knows what she's going to kind of cook up, you know, pun intended on future pages.
[SPEAKER_00]: So something about that I think would help even if it has to be, she's up before the sun because she doesn't want to get caught.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just felt like, oh, we're waking up with the normal day in this character's life.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a little bit of like, why are we waking up a little bit earlier than normal?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is this the last time she's going to forge in this location?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this the last time she's going to feel this metaphysical pull from the forest because things will never be the same right it's like why is this the day that's going to change everything why is that you know why are things never going to be the same and I think that's just you know really really crucial here you know there is a lot of danger.
[SPEAKER_00]: eventually happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we know that there is a war going on in the reason that she works this medicine is because people come injured.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, but this concept of danger again on the opening single page, if I was read that first page, I would have no idea of what was happening next.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, the point isn't to just trauma.bond us on the first page, but I honestly probably would have just put that first page down.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been like, okay, I was character having it almost day in their life, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I need to read about that?
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, oh, there's a war going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's warlords.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's danger.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's bombing.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just so much to come.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just didn't feel any sort of that dangerous energy on the first page.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I really liked was the cliffhanger
[SPEAKER_00]: really love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was great.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there's a lot to work with here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is a really interesting story, but those are just manuals.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Kali.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, CC, handing it across to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, from the top.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the first line reads the forest called to you Lee.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, couple paragraphs later, there's a reference that says, despite knowing the
[SPEAKER_02]: referring to the force.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then yet, next line, another reference, resisting the lure, a tug deep in her soul.
[SPEAKER_02]: She continued to forge.
[SPEAKER_02]: Meaning, we got three, four references to this poll of the force.
[SPEAKER_02]: If this is an inexplicable feeling, I'm wondering, has she always felt it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it recent?
[SPEAKER_02]: If she born with it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Has she reshared it with anyone?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there practical reason for this feeling?
[SPEAKER_02]: Did it just start?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're emphasizing this untethered emotion that makes a scene really plough convenient.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why?
[SPEAKER_02]: Every great story leverages two things, threat and temptation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they are the things that leverage active emotions, fear and desire.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am not threatened or tempted by this forest.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am not tempted to go into this forest.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am not feeling this pull, this tug, this lure.
[SPEAKER_02]: You are telling me she is feeling it, but I am not feeling it with her as the reader.
[SPEAKER_02]: In my opinion, no reader is going to, not in this untethered way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so,
[SPEAKER_02]: You either have to move this or different place or develop it in a different way because you're just telling us there's this tug tug tug and I'm like, I don't feel the tug so temptation must feel believable to the reader so that they can feel it with the protagonist in every great story.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're feeling the temptation with the protagonist.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're about to do this thing that's really risky and dangerous and please don't do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're screaming at them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't go.
[SPEAKER_02]: but you're also tempted as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: You also want them to go and to see what's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that emotion is the emotion that makes us keep turning the pages.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I understand what you're going for.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't think it's landing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really like that you have positioned her as someone who is overlooked.
[SPEAKER_02]: She because she is a woman, she is underestimated, you've established her sense of place in a really compelling way.
[SPEAKER_02]: You've tied it to her motivation because she's going to go into the forest and she's going to use underhanded methods to achieve her goals.
[SPEAKER_02]: So great.
[SPEAKER_02]: You do great job there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think you overexplended a little bit because in the first page you're saying otherwise she'd never get the transit treat someone important enough to earn a promotion and access the castle.
[SPEAKER_02]: To me, it's just like, too much explanation.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would wait even a paragraph before you added that context.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, make me go, ooh, why don't you want to go to the castle?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it's like, you know, because she needs, et cetera, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I thought that that was really well done, the per place in the world, but you could stretch it out a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_02]: love the way that you write her emotions.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's comparing emotions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the guilt that she feels compared to the burden that she's been carrying, like very good, warring emotions are a very important part of storytelling.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some really interesting observations, like the fact that the porridge is thinner than it was even a week ago, meaning scarcity, scarcity is very important in storytelling.
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, really, really great lines.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did feel that, and I think Carly spoke to this as well,
[SPEAKER_02]: I was confused because it's almost like you wanted to have three different beginnings and you're like, I'm going to put them all in one and I didn't allow you to actually develop one of the beginnings like there was a lot happening, but I didn't sense that the number of plot points felt intentional and felt like there was causality like it felt like you were navigating to two different types of beginning when that was more moody about the tug and the pool and the lure and when that was more about her interacting with cook.
[SPEAKER_02]: As a final note, I love that she's passing when she's interacting with Cook.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have all these messy emotions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Would she ever wonder because Cook seems to really like her?
[SPEAKER_02]: Cook speaks to her with terms of endearment, would her heart ever wonder would she still like me if she knew what I was?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I think that's a really vulnerable emotion that she would feel, and leveraging vulnerability, especially in a protagonist with such strong emotions and protagonistism because she is doing things.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is a wonderful way to make us connect with the protagonist.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a wonderful way to make us see the innocence in her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I would, again, if this obviously matches how she would feel, I would leverage that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wonderful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Carly and CCS.
[SPEAKER_01]: Peusual for your critiques.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we will be back with another Bookshops Hugs in two weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Time for those of you who would like to submit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go to the show about writing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go to the Bookshops Hugs tab and you can submit there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you really don't have to say nice things to get on to the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: I promise you, we'll pick you regardless.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have a good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_01]: CC Lyra is a literary agent at Wendy Sherman Associates.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you'd like to query CC, please refer to the Submission Guidelines at www.wshomen.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: Carly Waters is a literary agent at PS Literary Agency.
[SPEAKER_01]: But a work on this podcast is not affiliated with the agency and the views expressed by Kali on this podcast are solely that of her as a podcast co-host and do not necessarily reflect the views, opinions, policies, or position of PS literary agency.