[SPEAKER_04]: Welcome to the lower house.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're guys to the dance of the dragons.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm David and this is our season preview for season three of House of the Dragon on HBO question mark question mark anyway.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's not here.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're not there.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's always been HBO Max and Europe.
[SPEAKER_04]: with me today or to talk about the show and our coverage plans are my fellow host Alicia and our Laura Hound's co-host extraordinary Jean.
[SPEAKER_04]: Jean, how you doing?
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm good, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Good seeing you.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Been a minute since the three of us have had a podcast together, Alicia.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's that's talk Marvel.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Remember that show.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't even know.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, the one we don't name.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but we had a good time covering it, though.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did, we did not have a good time watching it with a dead Tom.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got to laugh through the pain sometimes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's why you have friends in a community to help you carry you through all of that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: So today on the podcast, we're going to talk about our specific plans for how we're going to cover and manage season three coverage.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to be all spoiler free up until the first commercial break.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to maybe talk a little bit about season one and two, like that's kind of fair game.
[SPEAKER_04]: But we're just going to talk about kind of details of the show and some other things.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll take it commercial break and then after that,
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll talk about the trailer.
[SPEAKER_04]: There was a new trailer that was just released and some of the we'll talk about some behind the scenes stuff maybe some show news definitely talk about what sort of out in public domain so if you want to be completely sanitized it'll be safe up until the first break then we're kind of being a little middle ground and then we'll take a third break a second break in the third section of show.
[SPEAKER_04]: uh, we can get into some more spoilery book-related stuff, and so then that way, you know, depending on where what your level is and what your interest is that you can check out at appropriate points.
[SPEAKER_04]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: We want to hear what you think about the show as well, so if you have a feedback,
[SPEAKER_03]: about House of the Dragon, about any of our conversations on this podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Please send those emails to HotDHOTD at thelorhounds.com and you'll find that link to the show notes as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: We do have a discord where you'll find that in the link tree.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have individual threads per episode so that you can have
[SPEAKER_03]: full discussions about each episode with all spoiler talk and have that siphoned because we know especially these days with so much going on everyone watches at their own pace like i'm calling this hot lore summer too hot to lore ah i love it i haven't heard that yet that's great i'm talking back up the hot more summer i love it yeah yeah yeah we got to get that back into gear
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, but yeah, so the discord is hoppin with all the various shows that we're coming.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll talk about that more at the end.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, and of course, we as always invite you to subscribe to either Patreon or supercast.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you want to support everything that we do here and you also get ad free access to everything and you get bonus episodes, like what's what is it called bullets?
[SPEAKER_04]: bullets for breakfast for the very end for all our Lebanese.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hard boiled is winning and I want that to happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got this right here.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're using your position here to the goose of the boat.
[SPEAKER_04]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then you just had a what you watch and with Marilyn and Bob to talk about cheap detective.
[SPEAKER_04]: That was fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's a really charming movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I had completely written it off based on the trailer, but I'm glad that Marilyn and others were like, no, no, you really should go see it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Very cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, so there are links to all of this stuff in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_03]: Check out the link tree, which gives it's the link of links.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: No link of links.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's a good perfect.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, before we talk about our specific coverage plans, I'm just curious in a spoiler free way.
[SPEAKER_04]: How are we feeling about just a bite check?
[SPEAKER_04]: How are we feeling about season three, especially now that we've had night of the seven Kingdoms, John, what's your energy coming into this season?
[SPEAKER_04]: On the arms, we're excited for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Super excited, Goon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm super excited for this because I feel like this is going to be
[SPEAKER_01]: some epic visuals, you know, and I just can't wait to watch some of these scenes unfold.
[SPEAKER_01]: As we, you know, go week by week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm really looking forward to seeing this, um, yeah, I'm very happy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Almost speechless.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're excited.
[SPEAKER_04]: Alicia, what's your vibe check?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I just went back and just to prep for this, watch a recap to refresh me on season two and where exactly we left things off, and it lives like sending me in the whole journey again of so much excitement about, it worked out for season two's where there's not, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: So season one season two are on the team.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're going to keep a clean for season three, though.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, but the whole dragon seeds thing so exciting and then just that like where it ends just before clearly they're setting up for something big that was going to be the season finale and then it's like no you only get eight episodes so I'm like oh you know that was frustrated me at the end of last season, but now we get to actually see how the last season would have should have ended so I'm very excited to
[SPEAKER_03]: to host the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, host the first two episodes while you're away.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, we'll talk about that in a second.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, coming up.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, so you're excited.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm excited.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm I'm I'm still mad about them.
[SPEAKER_03]: One big book change that I guess we'll see that that's the only thing I really have to talk about in the last section.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I'm very excited about everything that's been set up.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like pulling on this this bow string, you know, until it's so taught.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now
[SPEAKER_03]: you get to release the error.
[SPEAKER_04]: Very nice.
[SPEAKER_04]: Any, well, I don't want to get too for on to the franchise news, but just to set our expectations a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do we know how many seasons were running complete?
[SPEAKER_04]: And we won four or five.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't remember what the I think they said four because we I thought it was going to be five at one point, but then I thought they switched it to four or All right, I'm going to look at this app while we okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: That sounds good.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, then we can talk a little bit about well you looked at up there's a place there's a natural place where we can talk about that coming up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Just for our listeners and especially anybody new who's coming to the podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: We kind of like to set everybody's expectations for where we are as hosts with our relative experience to things.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I am primarily a show watcher.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've read, fire, and ice, that series, but nothing beyond it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm really kind of
[SPEAKER_04]: the song of ice and fire that main gamer thorns yeah did i say fire and i saw on the ice and yeah the beach is you're doing yeah they all sound too much alike i know i didn't see there you go that's that's my level of experience so yeah a original game of thrones showwatcher read the original series have read nothing beyond that so for me really the small screen is the my primary engagement with this a property john how would you
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm pretty, I've read, I think the only thing that I haven't read like a complete one sitting is what's the one that in 2014 to last, but they...
[SPEAKER_01]: the fire and blood fire and blood.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So everything before that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I see they are on the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, fire and blood.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the, so the, the King guards in the different, everyone may say God, God.
[SPEAKER_01]: So fire and blood.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, I.
[SPEAKER_01]: never read color to cover.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a thick spot to read.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything else like it was covered.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it's like an encyclopedia, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like a history.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And which is what this show is based on.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I would say there's another one.
[SPEAKER_03]: World of Ice and Fire is an encyclopedia more experienced,
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess that fire of blood is written by George R. Martin, who's sort of playing the role of a maester, and he's like, or a history story, and who's like has the words of other maesters, and the full name must be synthesizing it, which is a great, say, way, at least to characterize your level of engagement.
[SPEAKER_04]: You, I think, might have the most widest breadth of knowledge among the three of us.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, no, it is one of my more preferred worlds.
[SPEAKER_04]: I suppose, so how many do you have many preferred worlds?
[SPEAKER_04]: I think a good question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I podcast about all of them, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can count which one is more preferred.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is, uh-huh, or Star Wars?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do Star Wars is obviously above.
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
[SPEAKER_01]: Star is above.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would figure Star Wars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dune?
[SPEAKER_01]: Not Dune.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dune is down low, below.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just finished, we just finished the season that we are all complaining about that we're not getting another one.
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
[SPEAKER_03]: We, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, we, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you had one desert, you know, desert island, one story verse.
[SPEAKER_03]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I'll go with Wheel of Time because there's a bit more hope in it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I will say that this universe is heavily influenced by Wheel of Time.
[SPEAKER_03]: George R. Martin is a big fan of that universe and you'll notice like certain similarities where it could even in some ways you could think of this as another turning of the wheel.
[SPEAKER_03]: in our world, you know, it's like, yeah, that's fun.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we'll time has it has more of a hope punk element to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's not even, I yeah, there is that, but I would say it's more so that like this world is in many ways, um, night of the seven kingdoms aside.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is sort of the definition of grim dark.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, so I've read all the books, including the extra books here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you're sort of our maester historian here.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're of the Brown Asia.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that the librarians?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's one of mine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Although, I think I'm a gray, the mediators.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So of course, regular listeners to the Laura Hounds will be missing a particular voice that is the voice of John, John and I covered these last couple of seasons together and
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not that he's exactly bankrupted by the show, but I think he's a little exhausted by the weight of it, and I can completely empathize.
[SPEAKER_04]: I had a very similar reaction to foundation season three.
[SPEAKER_04]: I just couldn't find that there's what to live, that joy in the show, and there's nothing worse.
[SPEAKER_04]: then trying to cover, we know all three of us trying to cover a show that's not giving us the vibes and can be really tough.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he's chosen to sit out now as a, you know, one of the main three hosts, he has the right to drop in at any time, voice males, show up on a recording on a now and seeing you that kind of stuff, he can flex his muscles if he wants to step in.
[SPEAKER_04]: but fortunately we have a great community of people to podcast with and so we've got all of our coverage covered so to speak.
[SPEAKER_04]: A quick couple of details before we get into sort of a schedule and how we're actually going to cover the season.
[SPEAKER_04]: So obviously, this is a world created by George R. R. Martin, and Ryan Condol is the creator, showrunner, executive producer, extraordinaire.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's based on the fire and blood series, which sets 200 years before the events of Game of Thrones, telling the story of
[SPEAKER_04]: Princess Reneira forces, strike it, see, and then the devastating civil war spreads across the rest, the west of Westeros.
[SPEAKER_04]: Say that 10 times.
[SPEAKER_04]: I did not think about that as I was writing that phrase.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to premiere in the United States on Sunday, June 21st at 9 p.m. Eastern time.
[SPEAKER_04]: is running one episode is dropping one and running one per week for eight episodes, releasing on Sundays with the final episode on August 9th.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm guessing that the run times are going to be averaging what they did the last couple of seasons, you know, somewhere between that 40 to 60 minute time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it looks like we're the answer is four seasons.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is the penultimate season.
[SPEAKER_04]: So to speak, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that what you guys found on the internet, quicksages?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I thought.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what it, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to do weekly coverage.
[SPEAKER_04]: We've asked for, but not yet heard about screeners.
[SPEAKER_04]: The screener gods are fickle.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I don't know, we've made the appropriate sacrifices to the appropriate gods, old and new.
[SPEAKER_04]: But we're hoping for if assume that we don't have screeners,
[SPEAKER_04]: been planned for our podcast to drop Tuesdays, Wednesdays at the latest, Jean, you're going to be second share all season long.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're going to be here with this from beginning to end, and Alicia is going to start with episodes one and two,
[SPEAKER_04]: because I'm going to be on a family vacation and out of the country and not able to podcast so thank you Alicia for being able to step in because you've got a busy supper coming up ahead of you and then I'll step in on episode three and run through the finish.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you want to just plug really quick why you're not going to be on this show full time though?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, I mean, so starting this week, right after this episode, you're going to get the first episode of the Vampireless Stop Breakdown.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's what John's busy with.
[SPEAKER_03]: He is producing that one, and I'm going to be his co-host for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is like both of our favorite shows.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we've been so excited for this.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would say anyone who's into House of the Dragon definitely give, so the vampire list that is season three kind of spin-off of the interview with the vampire, so there's two seasons you can catch up on and then this and it is very much about like the heart and conflict with itself for sure.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are you trying to, are
[SPEAKER_04]: to hot to lower summer to hot to lower I love it and then we have other things like the bear and to last though and there's a whole bunch of other shows come on which I'll be movies movies as well yeah it's a crazy movie year so I'll be trying to pick up on some of those other things while Alicia and John are busy with those.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, did we decide on what our additional book lore extra coverage or we're going to drop any additional podcasts later in the it's kind of available depends on your availability and energy level in terms of covering that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think in my make sense to just have like, so I'll be there for the first two episodes obviously, John, and I can just talk book stuff for those, and then for the rest of this season, I think, well, maybe as an on an as needed basis, I'm working on John to do the book pitch in extras.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what we'll see, we'll play it by ear, whether that's when that makes sense, and not so just in terms of not reaching maximum overwhelmed with the exact way.
[SPEAKER_04]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then other listeners might know them, Anthony and Steve, we've done some joint coverage with them with properly Howard.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anthony's got a hiatus thing going on, and he's really not going to be available that much.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, surprisingly, he, I don't think is going to be doing much coverage of that on his feed, you know, you never know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anthony does what Anthony does.
[SPEAKER_04]: But he did mention to me briefly that he might do some maester coverage with a Ron from bald move from time to time.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's not confirmed.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if you're looking for Anthony and his coverage, keep an eye on their feed and maybe check the bald move feed from time to time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Since obviously, we have a lot of crossover listeners
[SPEAKER_04]: One of the things that we're going to do this season is a little bit different.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's going to be, we were looking at the landscape.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's going to be a lot of podcasts in YouTube coverage of this show.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you, dear listener, have a huge choice of who you want to check in with about this.
[SPEAKER_04]: And because, as we talked about this, it's going to be a busy show.
[SPEAKER_04]: we wanted to calibrate our coverage plans that sort of made sense for not only the the wider landscape and then also what we've got going on.
[SPEAKER_04]: So rather than doing scene by scene analysis, we're going to be doing sort of story and character analysis with more generalized discussion.
[SPEAKER_04]: Doing scene by scene analysis is a tremendous amount of work.
[SPEAKER_04]: It can take two to three additional hours beyond just the first, you know, whatever, whatever you're watching the show.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's a massive load and there's going to be a lot of other podcasts out there and YouTube that are going to be doing that as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're really going to synthesize a lot of that and have those deeper,
[SPEAKER_04]: open, you know, more open, ranging conversations where we can think about things in broader context.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we just felt that that was the best option for us given the landscape and then also sort of our demands on our competing demands on our type.
[SPEAKER_04]: Of course,
[SPEAKER_04]: hand of the pod, Nancy is excited for the season.
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, this is one of her favorite story verses as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think she's already done a little bit of work on our notion-based show guide.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you haven't seen that before, check out a link in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll have a link in the discord as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: And this is sort of this online wiki and psyched the PDF thing that we can curate.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you need information about an actor or a character,
[SPEAKER_04]: because if you do, you will get spoiled.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, it's just inevitable.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's so much information out there.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a nice curated tool and platform that's going to sort of help you remember, oh, like, wait, who is this?
[SPEAKER_04]: And how are they related?
[SPEAKER_04]: And what's their actor and that kind of stuff?
[SPEAKER_04]: So again, we'll have a link in the show note.
[SPEAKER_04]: So Nancy, you'll be keeping that up.
[SPEAKER_04]: as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hand of the pod is originally her original title came from covering House of the Dragons with us and she coordinates our feedback.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we really welcome your voicemails.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can just use your smart phone, your voice, you know, memo recording device on there and then record something quick.
[SPEAKER_04]: Senate by email or there's on our website, there's a special tool that'll do it as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: We really like voicemails a lot, so send those in.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can also just send in plain old regular emails, or if you've got something substantive on the Discord,
[SPEAKER_04]: Nancy will not only take those other sources but she'll she's also checking the discord and she'll harvest those up a little bit and clean them up and Nancy loves interacting with the fandom she loves this is part of her you know enjoyment she doesn't necessarily want to be on microphone but she wants to be just as involved as the rest of us and so it's really a great self-expression for her and we just love having her support so know that you know
[SPEAKER_04]: Send Nancy E-mail and you could have a lovely conversation with her because you always interact with everybody who sends them feedback.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's a lot of fun and we're really grateful for her and the rest of the community for all of their support.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anything else that we can talk about before I think we're kind of good for coverage plans.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I think we'll take our first break here and then when we come back.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll talk a little bit more about the trailers and a little bit about the storylines, sort of what's publicly available before we get into even a little bit deeper level of lore and talking about some doing some bookbitch and early bookbitch and all right, we'll be right back.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we're back.
[SPEAKER_04]: Alicia, just before we sat down to record, you were catching up on the trailer as was eyes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, oh, crap.
[SPEAKER_04]: I got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, watch this really quick.
[SPEAKER_04]: Did you watch the newest one that came out like a few days ago?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I've seen them multiple times before they despite that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, let's give it one more go before we go.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think, so now I'm good to talk about, we have a promo material that I think what most of the trailer is, as it should be, is that battle, a battle of the Gaulet, it's called that it would have wrapped up the last season and now it's going to open this one instead, so it's going to be hell of a season opener.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, John, did you, uh, have you caught up on, did you get up on the old one or the new one?
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched the very first one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've refused to watch anything else.
[SPEAKER_04]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though you know the book stuff here, I just want to be able to be immersed completely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I turn on the TV.
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And...
[SPEAKER_01]: the scenes hit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to have any, like, I want my eyes to be fresh and amazed because I think it's going to be amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I didn't want to
[SPEAKER_01]: have are you good if we can you know certainly yes yes we can talk about all of it but what i'm saying is that visually i did not want to have anything other than what i'm seeing for the very first time i want to be odd yeah and not be like oh this is how they did it no i want to be like oh shit and then a day later oh this is how they did it that's what i want to do so i've not watched anything after the first trailer
[SPEAKER_04]: got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I found this to be the case and I don't know, at least let me know what you think.
[SPEAKER_04]: I found the second trailer, this latest trailer, much more satisfying than the teaser or first trailer.
[SPEAKER_04]: This one, like, I really got a better sense of the season.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: I felt better going into it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, yeah, yeah, I think for me, what got me more excited was going back to the prior season and being, and like, for example, I was like, oh, yeah, they made this whole thing with Reneera and Messiah, what's that gonna be about?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: And because I do think that these books that it's based on, so world of ice and fire, it covers like basically the entire history up until the game of thrones of this world, um, and then as they were writing that when George R. Martin was sending in his notes, they were like over the top detail about the Targaryens.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so they're like, okay, well, let's just do this separate.
[SPEAKER_03]: fire and blood book which so that go like zooms in on this peer from Aegon the Conqueror toward not long after this period actually.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's done even before a night of the seven kingdoms that first part there's going to be sequel anyway.
[SPEAKER_03]: So
[SPEAKER_03]: This as we've said is from like a third-person perspective.
[SPEAKER_03]: So what I really enjoy about the show as a book reader is seeing how they play within the outlines that are drawn by these books.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I think that's where it's been and and I don't agree with every decision that they've made.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've kind of like every time George R. Martin post something I'm like,
[SPEAKER_03]: So, yeah, I'm just, I'm very excited to see like, okay, the Battle of the Gallet is how it's going to open the season, but are the same things going to go down there?
[SPEAKER_03]: And is it going to lead to the same results?
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I feel like the show and the book are diverging more and more.
[SPEAKER_03]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I'm very intrigued by these things.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean that's what they opened the trailer with his dragons and ships.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Who is hell?
[SPEAKER_04]: I am John.
[SPEAKER_04]: Obviously you didn't see this.
[SPEAKER_04]: But there are some incredible looking shots in here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can only imagine.
[SPEAKER_04]: Casey.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, sort of.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, I almost, this isn't necessarily the right analogy, but it's what's coming into my head right now, a little bit sort of world war one by plane like we're following.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's not like jet fighters where it's like missiles that are moving faster than the blink of the eye.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is slow, big moving things and ships on fire and smoke and all kinds of me and it looks cool as right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm doing my, I still have it finished by season one rewatch season one is so grim dark.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm choking down like dry bread It's tops maybe I can I can watch in the episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm up to they just they're on the hunt for a god right now You know, so it's just after the after the king is died and I'm my god
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's just a season two, but I remember in season two, like we got a couple of quick tastes of some of this.
[SPEAKER_04]: But this one just seems like, okay, like, here we go, like, full on dragon battles and full on, you know, Paul at ticking, like just, you know, turning it up to 11, the action and the intrigue, and just really these two families tear each other apart.
[SPEAKER_04]: it's exciting.
[SPEAKER_04]: And yeah, what I wanted, I think what's what a lot of us wanted some of more for season two.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I know it's it's really expensive.
[SPEAKER_03]: The dragons especially, I'm safe.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, if you remember the last season ended with so team green, so team black, they got the dragon seeds to have some more dragon power on their side.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so team green went across to to lists and picked up some mercenaries there basically.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's why there's all the ships that
[SPEAKER_04]: got it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And because of course Team Black has the Valerians, which are like this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, yeah, I just watched the scene the other night of, um, of, uh, Lainor?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, the brother, uh, Coralist's brother.
[SPEAKER_04]: Uh, oh, oh, when he got, uh, when he was a dark sister, did that clean slice.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was watching in my bed, uh, in bed, and my, my wife was, was next to me, and she, like, rolled over and to, you know, and I had to headphones on or whatever, and she, she, like, looked at the screen in the moment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no,
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, don't watch interview with the vampire with your wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's a new actor on screen here that we see in this in this trailer.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, and he's in standing in front of a big host.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is he a family member or is he a mercenary guy?
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't, I don't know if I can't see.
[SPEAKER_04]: where I'm at.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's about two minutes in a handsome gentleman and sort of silver armor standing in front of a big host.
[SPEAKER_04]: And people have mentioned his name and I can't find the name.
[SPEAKER_04]: New actor.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, we do look that stuff up, John.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there anything?
[SPEAKER_04]: That's light, spoilery, or anything that you're kind of looking, what are you looking forward to this season beyond good action?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I am, I am, team, Valery on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna let go of green, but I am black.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm team, Valery on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just put it out there, and I'm just singing.
[SPEAKER_04]: So Rini says in that, well, as episode, I have to stand for myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Rini?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we get so little of House Valerion after, you know, and everything that we cover, and everything that we see, we don't really find them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm really invested from season one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was really invested in seeing what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: to them, particularly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I'm hoping this season starts to shed light on why they've completely just vanished.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know they're still around even during, um, game of thrones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: dryness for a power source, as a family of, you know, of power of intrigue, then they're no longer matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to see how that happens.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I hope I get that, you know, in these two seasons that we, that come up if you think about their storyline over the course of season one and two, they suffer some of the most catastrophic blow losses.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: on individual personal level.
[SPEAKER_04]: Even though Lainor is across the seas, he's still alive, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's still, everybody thinks he's dead, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's that's such a painful thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then with Rene, Rene, Rene, I get to sell a hellable.
[SPEAKER_04]: But pronunciation, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: We lost her last season.
[SPEAKER_04]: Obviously,
[SPEAKER_04]: he's been wounded in the previous season.
[SPEAKER_04]: He makes a comeback, but then there's all the story with the bastards and then the strong children.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the to the tustling over their house, it's like been a really nasty intrafamily fight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, and this is like
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a terrible world, this just, this just be honest, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a terrible world that we all, let me not say we all, let me, it's a terrible world that I've invested myself in, that I, because, because I love dragons, I love dragons.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm willing to subject myself to this horrible world in order to get these dragons.
[SPEAKER_01]: You better say it so I'm here and I'm watching and I see all the political intrigue, the interfamiliar fighting and it's just really it's captivating in a sense because it goes
[SPEAKER_01]: I like Damon, like why, and I know what's going, I'm not gonna say, but things happen, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's gonna happen in this, it might happen in this very season.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just going to be lost at a scale that I don't think many other stories have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like real states, real laws for people, for the characters that we see.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like they are going through the ringer.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just really captivating to watch what people will devolve to in order to ascend.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's, yeah, I'm just,
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I was feeling that heaviness in my season one rewatch, especially episodes one through six, you know, before the switch, before the time jump.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was just like, oh, man, these are just horrible people doing horrible things to each other.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's just a hard, and there's no, we often talk about shows interjecting comedy in different ways to sort of leaven the seriousness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Season one just has no comedy.
[SPEAKER_04]: There is no bright spots to it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's just so hard to watch.
[SPEAKER_04]: At least how do you, what I should ask is, for season two, what are some things that you're looking for from the production from the show, from the actors, in story?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I mean, I guess, you know, I'll say it just say like steal yourselves, um, because
[SPEAKER_03]: We already know, like you know this, if you watch the game of Thrones, the dragons, the Targaryens, and their dragons, the Valerians, they all die out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the thing is this is actually obviously the Targaryens loom large over the history of this world, but they are far from the first family to be completely killed out by the endless warfare of this world.
[SPEAKER_03]: And maybe we should think about not doing things, like them, maybe we should learn some history.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I real world, we should be say, what would the Targaryens do?
[SPEAKER_03]: And then do the opposite.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I, yeah, I mean, I think
[SPEAKER_03]: I will talk more in the book written section about where I have concerns because of changes, you know, I guess I'm being the voice of George R. Martin here, but I, as I said, I most intrigued by seeing how they play within the lines of these divergences because they've had, I can so much richness to, for example, Reneera and Allison's relationship.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's a change that's almost on par with having the clone dynasty and foundation, for instance.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's an interesting question, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Where there's additive material, you know, in some cases, for a lot of people for foundation, the clone dynasty stuff is more interesting than the original source material that bolted on at creation is like, wow, this is really cool, I'm glad they added it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I wonder, it'll be interesting, especially when we finish up season four, when we're done, and it's said and done with this,
[SPEAKER_04]: what was new like a whole cloth new and how did that work relative to the the known story though i i think that at least is point that you know the stuff that's being added
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you said when Martin comments is like, that's cool, he's gonna be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at first, I was like, when he would comment, I would say to myself, just let the story play out, don't say it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But then it started to make sense because he's like, he's seeing things that as the creator of this world, that
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not what it, this is how it could be and this is what I may have intended it to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's an incredibly powerful thing when creators are still here and they're seeing their, you know, works adapted and they have the vision to be able to say wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: this part actually doesn't work, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, this is this part that they just interjected, yeah, that kind of works better than what I intended.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't have that a lot, because a lot of the stuff that we are viewing,
[SPEAKER_01]: some aspects of the people who created them, they're not here to be able to critique the adaptations.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's incredibly powerful.
[SPEAKER_01]: If that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, I mean, I guess my concern comes from things like with the original series, when I think it's safe to say this, it's been so many years, when Lady Stoneheart wasn't included.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's like, well, that's going to change everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think there's a character of that statuary.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we'll talk about it because they definitely folded that character into another one.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we'll come back to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: But there are things or, you know, they cut out like one of the, one of the Alice's children, which is going to have further reaching consequences.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so this is, I'm like, OK.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is where basically the falling out with George R. Martin has come over, but I am unlike him willing to, I suppose, wait and see and be like, okay, what are you going to do with this change then?
[SPEAKER_03]: Do something that's equally as interesting than if you've taken this away.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: Anything else you guys want to talk about before we do a little book
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll just say again, Damon, um, I think we'll be the most valuable target for this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, people are going to both love and hate him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And as we've done, as I've done over these first two seasons, um, but he, his role here in this season is going to be
[SPEAKER_01]: So very important, and I think like Alicia said, you better strap up because this is going to be quite a lot.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is this, this is a real high, high watermark for Matt Smith's career, like, I was watching them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Doctor.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was watching him in the last night as I was watching part of that episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: He just inhabits him when he's facing off against Amin Targaryen after that family dinner scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know where they throw some insults at each other.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, the Sarah says try to get everybody to make peace and then they don't.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he just stands there looking at his nephew.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's the right family relationship there.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he just, and then he walks out.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's just like, God damn, that Smith is this character.
[SPEAKER_04]: I cannot separate the actor from the role.
[SPEAKER_04]: From the credible.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, in all seriousness, just, yes, since he's my favorite doctor, actually, I should say.
[SPEAKER_03]: And obviously, it's, I have to remind myself constantly that it's the same actor playing both of those roles because it's a different role in the other.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that's the brilliance of an actor, like an actor who is actually acting and not just playing themselves, you know?
[SPEAKER_04]: The long way helps, too, I suppose.
[SPEAKER_04]: But he really does do the job of an actor where you lose the person, the real-world person, to the role.
[SPEAKER_04]: I did a quick check.
[SPEAKER_04]: It James Norton as Lord Ormond High Tower.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's who I was.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Earlier as well as a new...
[SPEAKER_04]: new person on the scene.
[SPEAKER_04]: So some more high tower.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, wait.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now we're going to get the other missing child today.
[SPEAKER_03]: The other member exists.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was an old town.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: It was an old town.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll see.
[SPEAKER_04]: But we'll definitely keep that in the in the character guide on the show guide, which I think is the thing that will mostly keep up.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I don't know that we're going to do season or episode synopsies because of the way we're doing things, but the character guide will definitely and the dragon beastierry will definitely be kept up on the thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's take that quick break.
[SPEAKER_04]: But before we do that, I just want to remind her, I just remembered this.
[SPEAKER_04]: I didn't have on my outline earlier.
[SPEAKER_04]: Our newest podcast to the Lorhound's affiliate network is the Dungeons and Doereggs guys, that is Ron Dawson and his friends, and they are going to be doing weekly coverage of the conversation.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if you want to hear from that, those guys and that community in their point of view, which is often times a lot more fun and rockets, they are going to be doing weekly coverage.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we're going to get there on you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but in their format, right, and their vibe, and I think they're going to be short.
[SPEAKER_04]: They're too far.
[SPEAKER_04]: They've been dropping like half an hour episodes about half an hour long.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then they're sort of YouTube first, but we'll have an audio feed for them because they were working out some production details, but they're going to be chatting about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so that'll be a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_04]: They were on their last episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: They were giving Ron a really hard time about being a super nerd for dragons.
[SPEAKER_04]: So.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a plus, as far as I can see.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a plus, as far as I can see.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a plus, as far as I can see.
[UNKNOWN]: Thanks for watching!
[SPEAKER_04]: and we're back.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, this is it.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you are still here, then expect full spoilers, all things Georgia are Martin related and we might be a little spicy in this section.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, you know, have some bread and milk ready to use your palate a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: I made you pull together these notes and I was not going to go this spoilery.
[SPEAKER_03]: So here we go.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is what was on, you know, I did an internet search and this is what that one site with it's one AILM thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Spat back at me and I'm like, I have no idea what the browser you just is.
[SPEAKER_04]: I am not a book reader and this season.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not saying to an accurate well as far as I've seen looks at it so far.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's, uh, it's Boilerie, but like the first one, Boilerie, I just wanted to, to copy out something.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just so that you both know, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I'm, I'm first chair on, you know, or one B chair, or whatever, you know, you're primary producer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I am this season making the choice to not care about spoilers.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm never, just be honest, I'm never going to read this book.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, but it's poilers for the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't care.
[SPEAKER_04]: I am totally good with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have searched my soul.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have other things in my life that are taking for amannence, the bear, agencies, and twos, other things.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm more than happy just to dive in with y'all.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you guys can be, you can string me along, but don't worry about spoiling me at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: I do not care.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm totally good.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's pretty impressive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm good.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm great.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that said, I mean, I don't know if we want to say spoilers for the sake of it, but just the first one is from the first episode.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure
[SPEAKER_03]: You've been warned.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm, I mean, listeners at home.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it is crazy that the season's going to start probably with the death of a major character in the form of Jacerus.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: who is, you know, there's been all the question, should he succeed to the phone to the throne since he's clearly a strong boy, but he's gonna show up with his dragon and they're gonna lose another, another sound and another dragon to team black.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I wonder how, okay, and we should set up here then I suppose remind people that at the end of last season, the youngest of Renea's children were being protected in the veil, and then they were being taken at the end of the season by boat across to, you know, to SSO, because it's how to be safer there, but it's not so safe to do that when there's a sea battle brewing.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it looks like, is this in the book that the triarchy sort of comes back?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because they do drop, they keep hinting at it a little bit in season one, like, oh, the triarchy.
[SPEAKER_04]: The story of the triarchy has not gone away across the two seasons.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, yeah, there's in addition to the tensions between within the Targaryen family, there's of course the tensions with with everything going on in SOS and not to mention other parts of Westeros, so they're just weakening themselves by with their infighting, of course.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the fall of King's Landing, that looks exciting.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we see that in the track.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess so.
[SPEAKER_04]: We do see that in the trailer.
[SPEAKER_04]: We see, you know, we see Raniera.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would guess that would be at least midseason, but I don't know how they're going to play that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: And definitely some land battles, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like we definitely see some stuff.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then obviously, you know, Damon still at Heron Hall.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's, yeah, I mean, he's forced his there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he's going to be a lot busier this season.
[SPEAKER_03]: They kind of like put him on pause last season with his hallucination storyline.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, what was her name?
[SPEAKER_03]: Alex, the way.
[SPEAKER_04]: Alice of Rivers.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, Alice of Rivers.
[SPEAKER_03]: She was trippy, she was great.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're gonna see her some more this season.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I think so.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I think yeah, do we see her and Okay, we might see her getting close to new people.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it looks like Masari is back as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm curious to see as I was saying before the whole thing between her and Reneera is a new, because, you know, it makes sense in the sense of adaptation that that's something really intimate in private, that whoever maesters or whatever that they're quoting might not know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm wondering, where do they diverge from what we know?
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, do they prolong things?
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't make it as immediate as we think that it could be, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so like, with, with, with Jakarta.
[SPEAKER_03]: Does he necessarily have to go in the foot?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I mean, I could be as an episode two thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, no, I if well.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's really he disappears from history, but it could be like me or who they thought he died, but it was actually they they made it look like he died and he left, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I think he's going down and his dragons going down too.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's going to give the green cocky so that the blacks can, you know, use that hubris to their advantage to take King's Landing.
[SPEAKER_01]: To King's Landing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just I'm just waiting to because I think I think we're going to be in for a couple of surprises.
[SPEAKER_01]: That things are not going to go the way that we necessarily expect.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then it seems on the surface on the surface.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that Damon's not going to die when it is expected.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that he's going to go to the Isle of Faces and maybe finally show us more insight on that side of things.
[SPEAKER_04]: Huh.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a there's a practical production aspect, too, which is you don't want to take Matt Smith out.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: You kind of need him, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And he carries a lot of the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: But they don't die, you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is serious change.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he is a question about this is all shipy step.
[SPEAKER_04]: It should be test stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like source versus.
[SPEAKER_04]: meaning and what on screen changes are necessitated because it's a screen and it makes sense to tell the story that way versus just whole cloth like we're just going to change it because we want to.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I mean, okay, but here's the question that I have now is with this strain between Ryan Condol and George R. Martin.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the fact George R. Martin is still heavily involved in HBO.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he was very happy with the seven kingdoms and they're developing new things.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like the conquering movie, again, the conquer movie or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: Ooh, you know, things that like I want to see more insight into are for our pieces of lore that George R. Martin has for whatever reason been being coy about.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe because he hasn't like pinned them down himself or maybe he has ideas to reveal them in his own future books.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I wonder how much slack
[SPEAKER_03]: Brian kind of has at this point to explore those, or George R. Martin's like, no new law for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's, yeah, that's a good question.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because these do still have to like ostensibly operate in the same universe, the shows, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And the movies, whatever, if they're gonna do this Targaryen movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Wait, Targaryen movie.
[SPEAKER_04]: What's oh, they didn't spin.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, he got it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, he got the conqueror.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like the conquering of the seven kingdoms.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So before all of this prehistory.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's it's it's the start of like modern Western history.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So they're going to go big screen.
[SPEAKER_04]: This start of the fire and blood book.
[SPEAKER_04]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That'll be interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: It'll be very cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, I mean, I wonder what they can do.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, um, okay, we have to talk about the thing that I've been hitting, hinting at, that I'm most annoyed about, that I know that George R. Martin is also most annoyed about aside from getting rid of one of the kids, which complicates some stories, is it seems that they're folding the storyline of a character from the book's named Nettles into Bayla Targaryen's storyline.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I'll just say, and then I'm gonna let at least show him, but I just say what bothers me about it because I see John shaking his head already.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, what bothers me about it is that, um, so Nettles is a fan favorite, one of the dragon seeds from the book, um, not raised in royalty crucially for my complaint, whereas Bella is obviously has been raised as a princess.
[SPEAKER_03]: characters from the source text that's canonically of color.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she represents a very unique perspective having not been raised in the royal family.
[SPEAKER_03]: So on the one hand I can see why like from condols perspective he's like, oh, you know, these maesters just didn't realize that
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think that you're missing, and of course, in the show, Bella is, they have made sure that the Valyrians and Bella among some, it is black, but you're just missing this perspective that nettle springs.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you think, show?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I totally agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I totally agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's, um, I, I don't hate the you look.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no problem with bailout.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like her role because she doesn't do that much in the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: I suppose.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm cool with her being, but I'm not cool with her being medals, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because like you said, it takes away that perspective of somebody who isn't, hi, boring.
[SPEAKER_01]: in a world that it's all about being highboard, I mean, it's all about being royalty and how royalty adjacent you are.
[SPEAKER_01]: So to have someone who is not that fine become a dragon writer,
[SPEAKER_01]: avenues of storytelling.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I could not for the life of me, imagine why they took that away.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, and I guess I guess he figures that Alan and Adam cover it, but not really because even they were not first of all the fact that they are men and nettles as a woman, but they were also like, you know, they've known their entire lives that they were bastards and they were,
[SPEAKER_03]: kind of in a way being groomed by their biological father anyway, you know, through their being part of the Navy and everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: Their male, they've known who, what their lineage is, it's not the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's absolutely not the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I hate that they, this is one of the greatest
[SPEAKER_01]: Once I saw where it was at it, I was like, no, this is not right, it doesn't feel right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it has to be, you have to balance out the perspectives of the people who are engaging and world-changing behavior, if everything comes from power and we're only telling the story
[SPEAKER_01]: Dragon writers who aren't, you know, high-born, or who don't possess targeting traits, let's just say, right, or very minimal targeting traits.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not, it's not the same story.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just isn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm, yeah, I was very disappointed in that, and I'm wondering if there, because there was a vocal opposition to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, would they, they're cross-correct?
[SPEAKER_01]: with they, you know, with they check themselves and make a drastic change at this point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I wonder, I have to think that he's been tempted at times not just because of George R. Martin's reaction, but because of the fan reaction.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I do wonder if there's any, although I don't know, he seems like he's digging in like doubling down on it, but I do wonder for example, they in the first season.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think they mentioned Darren Targaryen at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now finally, we're getting Darren and Tassarian are coming from Old Town with the high tower that you mentioned, David.
[SPEAKER_03]: And part of me wonders if after season went and people were like, where is Darren?
[SPEAKER_03]: If he, of course, corrected there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And was like, oh, no, no, no, we'll include Darren.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't worry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think they didn't mention it on the right.
[SPEAKER_03]: But okay, the storyline I'm most excited about though is I love like the personalities that we've seen for these strike various strike and seeds like of course we we have Adam but there's Hugh Hammer and off white just they made them very specific.
[SPEAKER_03]: characters and that I think I'm very and so the story is going to play out as it's going to play out I'm sure because there's no reason to change it but by creating these specific characters you can see the personal conflicts brewing within that are going to drive them to do the things that they do.
[SPEAKER_03]: What are you most intrigued by, David?
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I don't really have anything specific.
[SPEAKER_04]: Obviously, because I'm not connected to the lore in the same way.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, I guess one of the things that's always interested me is the relationship between, um, the...
[SPEAKER_04]: the queen and the princess.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it's me between Reneera and Alice and Alice.
[SPEAKER_04]: And how these two characters just keep stepping on each other's toes and
[SPEAKER_04]: and hurting each other, sometimes intentionally, sometimes unintentionally, and how that history builds, I think that's a really fascinating thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's also fascinating to see how the cousins or the uncles and the nephews sort of build up their animosity towards each other as from young people going forward.
[SPEAKER_04]: And just the power play dynamics and how, how they all, how all of this inter connects and how their, you know, manipulate inter and trying to shape the battlefield and trying to shape the intelligence, try to shape the public narratives, so all of that sort of real politics type of stuff I think is interesting as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think.
[SPEAKER_04]: along with probably a lot of folks I want I really want to see what happened to Kristen Cole I want that guy to be dead and he's I mean great great job on the acting right great job by Fabian Franco to be able to
[SPEAKER_04]: create a character that we all love.
[SPEAKER_04]: And fortunately, he has been smart as an actor to do some other things concurrently so that his persona is not poisoned by the role like with Joffrey, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: I forget the Joffrey's actor's name.
[SPEAKER_04]: But he, you know, he, that was a real blow to his career because everybody hated Joffrey so much that transferred over to the actor.
[SPEAKER_03]: But well, yeah, I think he just decided he didn't want to, um, Jack Gleason, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Jack Gleason, yeah, it's just Alex.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because people, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: where at least Fabian Frankill's been maybe smarter about it and getting out and doing other things.
[SPEAKER_04]: So he's been all about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: He is over and has a career and he's used it, you know, smartly.
[SPEAKER_04]: But boy, Christian Cole, man, what a slimy past.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm looking forward to him meeting some sort of just dessert.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, I think that's about it.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's more on the character and political side than it is about anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm here for the spectacle, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to see these battles and actually get somewhere with this story because with two seasons of lead up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I confess something?
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is a safe space.
[SPEAKER_04]: What else can our citizens of listeners?
[SPEAKER_01]: At Alicent is one of my
[SPEAKER_01]: the most detested characters.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Not part of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her whole year than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she's one of my most detested characters ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't think that when the series started knowing
[SPEAKER_01]: I never felt that level of disdain for her, but watching on screen, it's palatable the way that I don't like her, it's different from reading it, and then watching
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm blanking on the actor's name, so sorry.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's in the shooter and the show guide, Olivia.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she, that's just a quick plug for everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: Remember, that's like, if you want to go and get that information, that's where it's at.
[SPEAKER_01]: She just really,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know watching her play this role on screen is just I really detest her not Olivia but I was right that goes to all of the cast right the all of these
[SPEAKER_01]: Actors are doing such a good job of making us a bear character so much like I'm considering placing her above Cersei wow I mean Cersei you you I and Cersei you feel some empathy for her especially
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I understand people, because there are team, I think there's more team black supporters in general, just from the books and that would say the show.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know that the show, I think the show is actually maybe even more even handed between the two teams, but it's just like, I agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: You are being set up to be pro team black overall.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you're amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they play a lot on our own.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we have, yes, we have omniscient narrators or not omniscient, but whatever, that, you know, we have super position, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: So we have the whole board and yeah, we're omniscient because we know what happens with the dagger.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we know what the song of I said.
[SPEAKER_03]: We know which egg he met.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so we, and we know that Allison is, you know, you know, with her father, whispering in her ear and grooming her and how she feels about Reneera, all of that stuff, it's, it's hard to be teen green.
[SPEAKER_04]: ever unless you're like, no, no, no, I want them to assert.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I want, you know, egg on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't, I don't know if it would be hard to be teen green because the Targaryens are not exactly, you know, likable either.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I could understand, like in my, and I can understand wanting to displace the Targaryen, that I don't think I would have,
[SPEAKER_01]: it's just a very specific way that this world just makes those things happen, that the people for the most part who are making the change happen are not admirable.
[SPEAKER_04]: None, yeah, very few.
[SPEAKER_04]: Individuals is happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, change is happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is social of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a way to, you know, that power is redistributed throughout this, the entirety of the game of Throne's world.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the people who are doing the throwing off of the shackles except maybe one,
[SPEAKER_04]: I get, I just kind of go to Alicia's point earlier about taking real-world political lessons from this fictional world, which is a real world, which is theories of power and how power is distributed, who takes power, how power is taken, and there's a lot of lessons to be learned here for the future of our species, for sure, and I think that's
[SPEAKER_04]: makes it a more interesting show, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Because there's a depth, there's a nutritional value to it in regardless of how grim dark it is at times.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I bring this all up to say that there's a part of me that wants to speed one speed walk, speed watch, to the next season, because I want to see her get her come up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm very curious how they're going to play with, like, they've made larris, sir larris, strong, very colorful character, you know, characters like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: We haven't really mentioned yet, but I am very curious what's going to happen in there, how their arcs will be handled, you know, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: There's a lot of interesting secondary characters as well, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Helena Targaryen, I'm really interested to see what happens with her.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, me too.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, you talk about Ikie people, like Thailand, Lannister, you know, along with Christian Cole, just like, people that you're...
[SPEAKER_04]: pretty to go, or does Harold Westerling, I wonder if he's going to make an appearance again, I mean, if you want to talk about somebody who had a bit of a spine and stood up to, you know, not good things happening, like that's an interesting, and then of course we have the holes, Allen, and
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't, I don't remember much of what happened in the season.
[SPEAKER_03]: Adam, we talked about them as the dragon seeds and be, got it, okay, right, right.
[SPEAKER_03]: They are not stand-ins for, for a nettles.
[SPEAKER_04]: Adam and, no, no, no, Alan, right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well, I think, maybe this is a good place to end it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Any final thoughts, Alicia?
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, no, I mean, I'm, you know, the more I did my toe back into this, the more I am getting excited for the new season.
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's see what it brings.
[SPEAKER_04]: And thanks again for jumping in on one and two while I'm away.
[SPEAKER_04]: Jean, good to see you and I'm looking forward to our coverage and our conversations.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's going to be fun.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to be fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: With the buzzer, definitely.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, well, just quick shout out to our community, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: We gotta figure out a name for this group of people, but hand to the Pollock Nancy, Master of the Polls, Captain of the Poll here, I'm Peter O. H. Keeper of that.
[SPEAKER_04]: We need to better name for a show for Sub-Zero, but keeper of the tracker.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sub-Zero and our moderators, Brian E. D. 63 and Aaron Kay, all folks who are on the discord that do a bunch of background community work to help keep things working as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: Our discord server boosters, Aaron Kay, teller of the thriller, do 71 Athena Agilell as to Nancy M. Ghost, a prediction radio active Richard and Audrion.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to see you soon, Audrion.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to slide into your DMs.
[SPEAKER_04]: Samarshan, Michael G, Michelle E, S.C. Peter O. H. Nancy M. Dube 71, Brian 863, Frederick H. Sarah L. Garth C. Andreby, Kwong Ngu, Nathan T. Sub-Zero, Aaron K. Dali V. Mothership 61, Norles.
[SPEAKER_04]: Kathy W. Listoo, Jeffrey B. Alisa U. Benby, Scott F. Steven N. Julia F. Callie S. Ilmariel, Rocky Zim, Jessica A. Redzippy, the TCS, and DuPo Mini.
[SPEAKER_04]: Eleanor, Mrs. Tenant, AC Wilson, Eli W. Cassie K.
[SPEAKER_04]: Chumbaruni, Katilla, Josh Liu, Payton PDX, Corey G, Quintch, G-Niel, Slovanator, and, again, and always last Audrey on.
[SPEAKER_04]: These are our amazing community of lore masters, the people who anchor our podcast who's without their support.
[SPEAKER_04]: We literally could not do this, you guys have no idea how much you
[SPEAKER_04]: in many many ways and so many names that have been on on this list for so long.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you all so very much.
[SPEAKER_04]: John Alicia, great to see you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you both for your time today.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: And we'll talk to you soon.
[SPEAKER_04]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_04]: Peace.
[SPEAKER_03]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Lorhound's podcast is produced in published by the Lorhound's.
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