[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Forty K-Lorecast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to 40 Klorcast with John Barsati and Brad Chester.
[SPEAKER_00]: Disguise.
[SPEAKER_00]: Surprise.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So surprise guests.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bonus cast everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we wanted to get this out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the love of the edition coming around.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just kind of have a little bit of fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Brad and I just are talking about about 11th edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we thought it first time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: For us to kind of go through.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd be, look, there's enough people discussing the core rules and that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: We actually kind of want to get in here a little bit of shit talk risk.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's have some fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was kind of more of the goal here and give you guys our opinions of what 11 edition's going to be and some fun elements of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's really all this is high surprise over here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So GW, I would say thank you for giving us an advanced copy, but they didn't because we don't matter that much So we got the same thing all of you have the downloadable core rules.
[SPEAKER_00]: How are we not getting advanced copies?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't it's I'm I'm fine with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm fine being common.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm okay I'm in full.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I we belong with the common folk.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I didn't want it
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we actually probably belong behind them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It should have been, I mean, I will go to the back of the bus with everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: We probably should have had to have these sent to us by someone else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh yeah, you guys don't, GW blocked your IP addresses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fair enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: But so we get the core rules came out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will be honest, I've expect a lot of these rules to be wrong, given the history of GW when they release rule sets that they're going to go, oh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oops, don't follow this stuff in the print book, but all that Chad, we're going to start with a dig and then we're going to talk about things that I really like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because on the first picture of real people, supposedly playing this second picture of the entire thing Brad and I just spent about 10 minutes going over it together.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, there's two dice that are caught.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you have them cocked?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, let's go there with two people playing.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have for whatever reason, him being oddly helpful to the men and women.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's holding the tape measure wrong, objectively holding it wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: You hold it like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna ricochet right back in.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is not how you measure.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to get your finger on top of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's measuring nothing, is the parabola.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she's measuring nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The tape measure was extended, but she's not holding the lock button down, which we said, any second, this thing's just going to retract.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's no value to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's pointing down with his hand, but smiling.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing a gesture with his hand, which is new.
[SPEAKER_00]: I told you so, gesture, but he's smiling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, he's trying to pretend that he just rolled the dice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but they're not rolled.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of them is caught in sitting on top of something.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I actually think that there's tried to pretend that this is an action shot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And these dice are in the process.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, if you did this in a game and you rolled your dice on top of somebody's models, they'd fight you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just look at you like what get a dice tray also my favorite part is one thing Brad and I noticed is we're pretty sure this is Well, I can't remember this board is it looks like it's a cardboard board But I'm worried this is the old GW many years ago decide to make their own boards and they're plastic
[SPEAKER_00]: And Brad, probably I'm going to say a few of you guys remember these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were these plastic boards you could paint and they would actually assemble together and they would come together to form the single worst playing surface in the history of 40K because any model you put on them would fall down.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he diced your role on them with skip across the floor.
[SPEAKER_00]: You actually were more successful growing dice on concrete than you were on these plastic boards.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, with that out of the way, we can continue into the actual rules of the actual game.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's start with the, with cool things like in the very beginning, we'll go top to bottom from where it starts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Battleshark doesn't just auto go away, which may battleshark an actual thing that people give a shit about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, brilliant.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're bringing, so let's talk more about, we have the history of 40k.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we can talk a bit more about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're bringing back something that was tantamount to most addition.
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea was that once your unit reduced in a size to a certain point, you took a leadership check.
[SPEAKER_00]: And once you failed that leadership check, you then had to regain your leadership.
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea being that a unit meant to meant to be got scared for lack of a better phrase, and we'll start running away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it gets broken.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they didn't make you run away anymore because as Brad and our other co-host Allen will happily tell you, are those glorious days of being escorted off the board and it will run down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, those were some glory days that Shell probably never returned fortunately, unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the idea, the problem with battle shock is for many additions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I think since, I mean, definitely eighth, I don't know, in seventh edition, did leadership matter?
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah, if you had unbreakable stuff, so you could take damage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's what it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Eighth edition, it was a matter button.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of guys had ways to ignore it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We haven't had leadership matter for a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So nightlord players.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might matter again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was, say, for tenth edition, better shot just didn't make a difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it auto-clear night edition can manifest.
[SPEAKER_00]: A night edition, it was in the use list.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was so easy to memorize the mission.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: The things that I do like.
[SPEAKER_01]: So first off, let's talk about the addition.
[SPEAKER_01]: 11th edition is a 10 point where I have to call it the 10.5ish because the first thing, your data sheets, still make a difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: All the same things still apply.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything on an old data sheet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, how about this?
[SPEAKER_01]: In the downloadable rules, they even show you a boy's card and all of the things are exactly the same as before.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a real, right step for all the different words.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, yeah, but I'm saying that like it's sort of the same way everything's the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't I'm just giving you a group because it's like every the reason why is intent edition Just for people who don't play the game intent edition every time they released a code X They would release a code X and it would sell data cards with it and you can buy data cards and those data cards became outdated within one
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sometimes one day, but definitely within three months, we're completely useless.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it in good news.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like that they've put
[SPEAKER_01]: everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: The way that they started to do in Stratagium's 10th edition was very nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the who's eligible when can you do it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Who can you affect it on?
[SPEAKER_01]: And now they've done this with every step of the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you do when you get out of the vehicle, when you move, when you do something, they have charts.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you actually, I say printed out because I'm an old man, if you have it on your phone, your tablet, you're whatever, you could literally follow through the stages of the game.
[SPEAKER_01]: The face one was the last time you
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, actually, no, no, no, that I actually have sneaks print out score sheets because I'm going to do a turn on my care about.
[SPEAKER_01]: I keep actual physical score because I, I forget shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, now it's time to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: When was the last time you printed out?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a printer.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's on the floor.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't had it done 2,000 before COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate your support of the player base, but I'm just calling it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Love you to death, buddy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, you know that I would never get that printer to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, but I'm saying you can go through these things and look at
[SPEAKER_01]: what is this rule and you can walk through.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is going to be one of the things I want to talk about with what we're doing today is there's a lot of people that are very, very new or haven't even started playing that listen to our cast and I think this is a good addition to start in because you can walk through things a lot easier than you could in other of this is one of the this is one of the easier additions we've seen to pick the game up with and it's because it is a bit more
[SPEAKER_00]: the order of operations is being made more linear with each test version.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're all still some challenges and you know, look, this game is complicated.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're never going to pretend for a second this game is in complicated.
[SPEAKER_00]: You will be playing it for months before you really start to really get a good grasp of it, but you can start playing it quickly and you enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually think that this is going to be an easier game to get into.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is going to be a pretty big learning curve to be maybe in plus because there's going to be some moments where you're like, I got pretty punished by stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, what are the huge things in this edition?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a change that is...
[SPEAKER_01]: bigger than we've had the same engagement range for forever.
[SPEAKER_01]: Engagement range is now two inches, but you're used to well at one inch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like how I did like you opened up with let's go in order and now you just skipped 45 pages.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I did not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, really, I'm on your command face.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where does it get your range?
[SPEAKER_00]: I page 14, don't worry about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's in order.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's nothing to say of those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I already said that go step by step by step.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, because if you skipped some really important bits, I didn't do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so let's get into the first one I want to talk about this movement face.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was actually a very big change to movement face.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when the big changes is that coming in from reserves, no longer happens at the end of movement face.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your entire movement face happens and whatever order you want your movement face to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is to Brad's point, really nice for new players.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the challenges we've had in prior editions has been, was it Tony, got Tony, is that Tony?
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the challenges in Warhammer has been the chest thing of, you know, did you take your finger off the piece and it has been a real Annoyance in the game for a long time because it had to be with Overwatch.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're having a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to skip a smidge ahead because I'm just going to give it the all things that you can reactively do now, except for reactive moves.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see if they change those.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anything that is a reaction to something you're doing happens now at the end of the phase.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for instance, if John and I can once a turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: use Overwatch, which means I can shoot at something at a reduced ballistic scale.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would technically, he would have to move a model, wait for me to say no, move a model, wait for me to say no.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the same thing was in the charge phase, I'd have to move a charge, wait for him to see if he was going to heroic intervention on me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now all of these things are at the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: And all of these things happen all together for instance, pylons and consolidates active player, piles in everything, then the not active player, consolidate, you know, so in his way, it makes it so much better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're going to talk about how you can gain a negative to some of you got to in a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the initial is a nice positive to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: For I think your point for a newer player.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's nice because I don't have to, you know, bring my models out and say, hey, these aren't on the board, but I'm going to put them there in a minute so that they're not down yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I literally bring guys in from deep strike and lie them on their side in a place like, hey, they're going to be there in a minute, but I'm not putting them down now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just think it's I'm playing an opponent who wants to play the game that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, hey, these are on their side and why, by the way, watch us and that is because reserves used to be
[SPEAKER_01]: the end of your movement phase.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you brought a reserve in, you are basically declaring that this is the end of the phase.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And people would try and force that sometimes on you said, okay, you're done moving now.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, you know, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem with that is that what the read what they did was to Brad's point.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a thing called Overwatch.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in Overwatch, I get to take, I get to shoot at you for moving.
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem with this is that Overwatch used to be declared when you went to move, and it used to be when you would start or finish a move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because now you Overwatch at the end of the movement days, I can now move stuff behind walls and not be overwatched, which means.
[SPEAKER_01]: Final with that, because you can now close.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not because I, you know, sometimes when you can over where a, I'll use a very simple example, in my turn, I shoot a unit down to a single character left you then now can retreat that character behind a wall.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not having to ask you every single time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess that all my point is is it's that's the issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish also watch should be able to be declared at the beginning.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the end of the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because they don't want it model by, or you know, by you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a sacrifice.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is something that it does overwatch significantly less powerful because Overwatch is now snapshots, snapshots are only hit on sixes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, you can the bigger part, you cannot re-roll a snapshot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Flamers, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Flamers are still going to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Way to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's going to be a lot of flaming.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that will say the movement phase, the other big change to movement phase, which affects me a lot individually, because I play a lot of flying units.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although actually my new army intent doesn't let it go.
[SPEAKER_00]: The irony of this all is, for all of 10th edition, I played units at tons of fly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love fly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then for left edition of building an iron war reserve, I think has a
[SPEAKER_00]: to fly you to the whole thing, but I respect fly and fly is back.
[SPEAKER_00]: We finally, we figured out once again how to fly over things.
[SPEAKER_00]: The board is 3D again, what a wonderful thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the fly.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also love the fact that movement is technically now done straight line to straight line.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I have 12 inches, but I want to make a bunch of moves and stuff, I can pivot as much as I want.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's no longer takes like right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I pivot, you lose two inches, but you can gain a lot of inches.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because no, this is nice because you pick a piece of the ready to show the diet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I saw it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We disagree on this one because I know I was going to get there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You pick a piece though.
[SPEAKER_01]: You pick a piece and you cannot move farther than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I measure all of my movement.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to move this right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to start the movement and I'm going to measure off what they're showing in the diagram is they're measuring off the left corner.
[SPEAKER_01]: You measure off the left corner period and you do it in straight lines.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can never get farther than 12 inches of movement on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The issue has to do with the terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: The issue I have with that is that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kind of, but it's so much better than is now because I can get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's right pre-bank.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just call it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if people who don't listen, one of the challenges in this game is that the terrain is angled.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of these models, I think you know, Brad use the term rhino.
[SPEAKER_00]: Rhino is a bad example in the reason why it's because the rhino is almost a perfect rectangle.
[SPEAKER_00]: The bigger challenges
[SPEAKER_00]: are gonna play the Raider or, you know, long cylindrical vials.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of his vehicles are the wave serpent.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't have a very good shape to kind of figuring out where it begins and where it ends.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, but you're almost impossible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, you can try to gain and get extra inches.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hold it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you think.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you're picking a point now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I'm agreeing with you, what I'm saying is those models allowed you to players could manipulate a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I needed, it has a 12 inch movement, you could get 13 pretty easily.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's hard to see last month.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's hard to see that they did.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what they're saying now is screw it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can only go this far.
[SPEAKER_00]: The challenge to it now, though, is that you're going to be getting a lot more movement out of them than you were getting before if you're enforcing it on a dense board, which were not seeing a lot of these days.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, everything is a year and a year and so all I'm not saying it's necessarily bad, what I'm saying is just like I was saying with the Overwatch thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: In order to gain this thing of the movement phases are going to be a lot quicker and a lot cleaner, you are going to lose the ability to pick off weak units, much in the same way with this, you know, yes, we're going to have a cleaner way to move vehicles.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to see as much gaming of the vehicle movement.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the flip side is you're going to have to watch out for vehicles.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to get firing angles much more easily because they will be able to get much more movement than they did before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have less flashing areas.
[SPEAKER_01]: The new terrain also has way less walls and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also let's talk about in the movement phase.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to go with there, this is a little bit farther because it goes with terrain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can now toe touch again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, chef's kiss because a toe touch is critical.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is more annoying to me than coaching and trying to explain the current
[SPEAKER_01]: terrain rules, which are bananas.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, holy within versus not now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I a night?
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I not a night?
[SPEAKER_00]: Am I can do this so good?
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I my holy with them?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, you know, but right now, it goes back to old school, which is if you're touching, if your model's touching any piece of the terrain,
[SPEAKER_01]: You true line of sight look through that terrain if there's a wall in front of you can't see if there's not you see right through it I love that rule also coherency coherency changed for the better people can argue with me on this people that love to play horn I like to play hard I love to play hard I let me make an argument here the only issue I have that I would like to see one small change I would like to see it be nine inches for ten models or less 12 inches for ten models and more
[SPEAKER_00]: They're that's so old they changed what caused with gas and and 20 boys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nine inches is tight.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about what we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that brings me no sense, but I'm continuing on a party on Garth.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're.
[SPEAKER_01]: the new coherency is you have to be two inches from another model.
[SPEAKER_01]: It used to be two inches from two models.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's easier to do that, but you now have a total diameter of nine inches that your unit has to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: So effectively you have a circle nine inches.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everybody has to be inside that circle.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to end your movement nine inches away.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think we could say for last
[SPEAKER_01]: a pucalyptic glass, which is that basically like like all of your units.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what they the read one of the reasons for this is because right now in 10th edition, I could zipper formation basically up down up down to keep everybody within two inches or two models.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I had a 2025 band unit, I could string completely out and stop you from engaging anything behind.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, I
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I used to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I ran two infiltrate units, I could take two infiltrate units.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I got first turn, I could advance them up the board and you wouldn't get a first movement this because I could actually take two units and you could not move.
[SPEAKER_00]: And because they were spread so far out, that is unacceptable.
[SPEAKER_00]: The, again, my complaint around it is we do have to
[SPEAKER_00]: 20 unit and 20 model units and nine inches is not as big as people think there's a great joke there I'm not going to make it because throughout your seasons, but the it is that that diameter is not as large especially and there are examples people have already started posting of like gas for example gas and
[SPEAKER_00]: in order to be within nine inches, which means that there is terrain they cannot fit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all I'm saying is it would be nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would I'm hoping gw.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really change just to extended the 12, basically say, you know, 10 or less is nine, 10 or more ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've seen people playing recon gardens stuff like that, and just making the game miserable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, no, green, the board and we've been wanting to say I'm not saying you go to 18 if you have 20.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying, OK, we're going to recognize that an attached model unit.
[SPEAKER_00]: This will get a little bit larger.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just getting enough space that we can account for terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is a good change because the Daisy chaining of units was stupid and it looked out.
[SPEAKER_01]: It made less interaction.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can just keep people away from me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you can just do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was so many dirty tricks.
[SPEAKER_00]: It also was a good way to block out deep strike.
[SPEAKER_00]: These were things that people used to gain what I would call myself actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it'd be minus depending on how many beer and that's
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, some of some C++, really drunk, player, you could really shut me down.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I have stuff off board, a good player would see that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They did advanced, they'd daisy channel play out, and all of a sudden, I just don't get to come on the board.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm deep striking into my own deployment zone.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be, this game's going to have a lot more free play in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what they were going to discuss as we kind of get later in this, like how we interpret this addition.
[SPEAKER_00]: This edition, here's what I'll say, you'll be playing a lot more this edition a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's going to be a lot of gauge when I think the game's going to be very, very alphastricy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to hurt.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have less terrain.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have things on that again, it's easier to make engagement engagement as now two inches instead of one inch so you can get on so now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you love melee.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we start with a shooting face first, please?
[SPEAKER_00]: Fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to be building an iron warrior's army, this is going to come up a lot for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why would you be shooting when you could be punching?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I have vash tour.
[SPEAKER_00]: He could punch.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a great puncher.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not really that he is, but what happens when you put him next to two or three vehicles?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think Slad is the only two shooting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I can shoot you back.
[SPEAKER_00]: What if I just go over there and all that's dead?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, look a bad news nearby.
[SPEAKER_00]: Huh.
[SPEAKER_00]: That feels unfair.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, so shooting phase.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shooting phase hasn't actually changed that much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just a couple little small tweaks.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's talk dice real quick.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the biggest thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it applies to all the phases.
[SPEAKER_01]: So right now,
[SPEAKER_01]: John is leading 10 Marines.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I put 20 wounds on him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He would have to start taking his saves, 10 at a time, or lower, because his character has different saves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now they have what's called the batch dice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of just fast rolling dice, if I gave him 20 saves, he would roll all of his saves and assign them however he wants.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which makes your characters in special weapons.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's a people with like four up in fulls for instance.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he had old marnius calgar had two guys with him that have four up in full, which is a save that can't be modified.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I shot last can and sad him, he would take the saves on those guys first, but then would have to keep taking the other saves.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, you can assign your saves however you want and whatever order you want once they give him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is a big big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't love this, but it's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been.
[SPEAKER_01]: you're going to be very game the crap out of that, but you can't, they will, yes, yeah, because you still assign, you still shoot your weapons in the order you want to shoot them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know, I'm just saying, I get why they did it because it was actually very convoluted, but as far as shooting goes, couple, so fast, and they did a bunch of stuff that's fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like quite a bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the elements of shooting that matter is a couple of things that matter to shooting.
[SPEAKER_00]: First off, let's talk about, you know, if you advance, you have to have a salt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have a plus one to hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, plus one to heavy is down heavy now says.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you've reached three or less, which means it's actually
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I use it way more.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so plunging fire, plunging fire used to be, you know, five inches to six inches or whatever more you got it plus plus you're never getting it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's anything with tower nights just auto get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If they're 12 inches away, they get, and it's plus one to your ballistic skill and models that are three inches are above get plus one ballistic skill.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like this quite a bit because it adds a lot in it's it also it adds something that's kind of happened because yeah I can tell you where my habits are going to be every kind of pop off yeah my habits are going to be the second floor all the time didn't also in the biggest thing about yeah everyone is you can only have modifiers of plus one to hit or minus one come total but
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a separate modifier.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're modifying your ballistic skill is the number you hit on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're changing it from, so for instance, those habits normally hit on threes.
[SPEAKER_01]: If they're on plunging fire, they would be changed to hitting on twos.
[SPEAKER_00]: It means I could also get a plus one.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That if you're getting a minus one, they're still hitting on a twos.
[SPEAKER_01]: But exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're shooting something in cover, now cut or saves are now minus one to hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Across the, yeah, we're talking about cover in a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: So while they want, one more thing I would talk about is a love of mine, a hatred of yours, indirect fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so you can, that can suck it, suck it to back, love it, indirect fire took an interesting hit here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So indirect fire, which has been maybe the bane of existence in the game for a long time, direct fire.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not as much as I hate aircraft, but they're kind of one of the same for being honest, indirect fire is when you have artillery.
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem with this addition is this addition has a lot more ways to make your units invisible for lack of a better phrase.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's hard, you know, an eligible to be shot, indirect removes that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can shoot anything aboard whenever they feel like it, which makes them very unique.
[SPEAKER_00]: But GW has decided to make it so yeah, they only hit on sixes.
[SPEAKER_01]: They can hit on unless they can see you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, no, it's somebody else has to see.
[SPEAKER_01]: If somebody else can spot for you, which I like quite a bit, you're fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can hit on fours and fives and sixes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, and what the other thing is is, again, they don't have rerolls on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only thing I'll say about this is, I am quite concerned as to how GW points these models out, because this is a very heavy duty nerf to indirect fire.
[SPEAKER_00]: anyone who has played the game for a while knows that indirect weapons are monstrous when they're good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the question is, does my basilisk go down to 100 points?
[SPEAKER_00]: because if so, I'll put three of them on the board.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just yellow swag it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't just roll all these sixes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, then I'll put three on the board and put scouts sent on the board.
[SPEAKER_00]: And cool, I can see you now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Goodbye, goodbye, and just hammer you off the board.
[SPEAKER_00]: Still these six plus three shots.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye.
[SPEAKER_00]: So is that one?
[SPEAKER_00]: But with that, we actually should talk now about one of the biggest changes, which is cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this actually is maybe one of the most consequential changes to the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: More or less to me about what they modify and more about the overall rule and how it modifies it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So forever, cover has modified your save.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even going back to a second edition, 30 is just a different way of modified obviously, but it modified your save.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's gone now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your save is now your save.
[SPEAKER_00]: your what you get now is you change how I can hit your adjusting my ability to hit you by subtracting one for my ability to hit.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also a big deal because you're not getting that bonus either unless your unit is all of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I can if you're half your unit was in terrain and I can drive and see somebody that's not in terrain, I do not get them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to have two things on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: One.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot more, you talked about something earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is why this is important in a, we're keeping all of our own data cards.
[SPEAKER_00]: One all of our own data cards, all flamers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every torn one cover, Ignore's cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, there's a lot of mutants that ignore,
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of fires.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, the shooting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll tell suits.
[SPEAKER_01]: All psychic weapon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dark Reapers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the bunch is up so it's actually cover got a lot worse because a lot of stuff to ignore it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what you were just talking about compounds.
[SPEAKER_00]: So nothing before was what what you would do is if I had 10 models and four of them were touching a terrain piece,
[SPEAKER_00]: the other six or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I went to take the bonus and yet on them, now I get no cover safe.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does not exist unless all hundred percent of my models are all within cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: And cover is pretty aggressive now.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have to be at least partially obscured.
[SPEAKER_00]: and or fully within the terrain piece.
[SPEAKER_00]: If that's a lot, that's actually a bit from the little part of the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's actually a harder to pull than anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been given them props on a lot of stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: We started snarking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to start on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: The pictures that use of cover with the raw first photo shop guy, Bahama, it looked like I was just thinking about putting my face in there because it looks so ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't see anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: It has no value.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I just love that they put the model and they just superimposed the not a picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just bad Photoshop.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, come on.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks terrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what year is this?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like, you're 99.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have unlimited to read in models.
[SPEAKER_01]: They could have just taken an actual picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks more like they're still much splurged by Photoshop.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, like, they don't know how to, how to get fake Photoshop.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why bother with splurging at pre Photoshop, when you could just take a picture of a model behind the terrain?
[SPEAKER_00]: Boow.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But after that, we get to what's probably the biggest change in the game and one that I personally hate.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be right back after a quick break.
[SPEAKER_01]: Charging.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate this so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot express how much I hate this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, channel your hatred.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's, I feel as an error.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, charge face.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're talking about it used to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to have to declare my charges, and then I would roll to see if I made that charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes you're standing the frickin' wind.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now, I roll, I say, I'm going to charge.
[SPEAKER_01]: I roll two dice, and then I declare my targets after I see how far I can go.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't get to do that with shooting.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't do anything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's cute.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you can pre-visor who you shoot.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't get to, if I hit or not, if I have a last cannon, do I get to decide what the last cannon is shooting at?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, you don't, not after no even hits or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to say, okay, I've got the, I've got a squad that has a last cannon at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I, where do I put the last cannon?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I know if it's gonna hit and wound?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't get that level of hindsight.
[SPEAKER_00]: I de-test this rule because it makes it too easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It allows for too much confidence.
[SPEAKER_00]: The whole, the only way you can't make it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't take away people's confidence, John.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the way because this is a thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I play, I'm going my 13th Army right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I play a lot of different armies.
[SPEAKER_00]: I play melee armies.
[SPEAKER_00]: I play shooting armies.
[SPEAKER_00]: I play middle armies.
[SPEAKER_00]: The middle ones are unterrivaled.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I usually play one of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't play balance well at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can just play my works on the shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I play a tournament where didn't shoot a gun.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my point is even though I play that level of melee,
[SPEAKER_00]: The way that you beat me when I'm playing heavy duty melee and the way I beat you when you're playing heavy duty melee is I put your charges at scary distances so you are uncomfortable about where to put your models because you're afraid of failing charges.
[SPEAKER_00]: That fear is gone you just move up and roll your charges and all you and you just assume I'll be close enough to get to one of them because what it used to be was all right I'm gonna I'm within the final within maybe five inches of this one model I couldn't keep you out of it, but that unit doesn't matter at all to me and you get to that model that unit You kill that unit.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to slaughter you after you kill that, but now
[SPEAKER_00]: You get you within five inches.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to roll the dice.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're all in 11.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're in everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know if you get that you don't know if you're the but before you most players wouldn't take that risk.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I blocked those people John.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't use limits.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's limits to move blocks.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the move blocks?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to charge with.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't let me let me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate this.
[SPEAKER_00]: it is a colossal error.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a colossal error.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a colossal error made worse by the thing we're both going to talk about because we both thought at least it was limited by watching the planet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they declared it in the, you know what, we're not going to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But let's get into this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you make a charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: You roll your stupid dice and then you pick after knowing what you can what how far you go you pick whatever you want to go and do see move your models in then they make a nice change one I fully agree with we used to have a lot of gaming.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the next piece of the game, which was the pile-in in fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it used to be I would pile-in Then I would fight and go to my next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would pile-in and I would fight and this would allow for a lot of extra weird movement and a lot of shenanigans You know, not the good shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go good shenanigans.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not usually I'd against five.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have more shenanigans now So let's talk they screwed this up real bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: So real bad
[SPEAKER_01]: We thought there was going to be you can only attack things you could charge.
[SPEAKER_01]: God they checked this up so bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm just that is not really like bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: You move all your pylons at the same time, which is very, very nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, if you kill everything one, I can just start touching things because you pile in towards the closest models.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can just grab shit that I wasn't fighting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And now because of the fact that it's two-inch engagement, I have so much ability to just grab all of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the other thing is, the whole thing just to help you work in this back.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what that means is I roll my six-inch charge, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: I move, but then I move it closer can.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have to move to whatever's closest.
[SPEAKER_00]: I declare.
[SPEAKER_00]: I move towards a tourist in the same place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, no, no, no, you do not.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll know to what I like to clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm saying, I roll, I roll, I roll, say I have a charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and every day you have to move closer to that, I have to move towards that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in moving closer to that, I'm within five inches of another unit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Time out on Pilein can go into that other unit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now let's talk about what's even better on this is if we blow something up like you kill the transport whatever you can do now what's called an overrun.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I charge two units into John's unit and blow it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've just now moved three.
[SPEAKER_01]: I move my charge, plus I move three, and then I can now go, oh, it's my turn to fight.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am not engaged, so I'm now going to make another pile in.
[SPEAKER_01]: I moved another three, so say an average dice roll is seven.
[SPEAKER_01]: I did a seven inch charge.
[SPEAKER_01]: I moved six, and I'm now within two, and then I can consolidate move on top of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, there are armies and units that have
[SPEAKER_00]: six inch consolidated so I could possibly do this twice and move seven six six yeah this is they've really screwed this up candidly I mean and this is something that when Brad and I complain that this we're not the only ones complaining about this is a lot of players
[SPEAKER_00]: This might be like, we're FAQ, it might be worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's thing, we're hoping they FAQ this, because the idea behind when they first announced it was when you declare a charge, the only thing you can fight is what you charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one exception being if you charge a transport,
[SPEAKER_00]: you could fight what was inside the transport, which made sense, okay, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now we're seeing the thing that you could do in Tent Edition, which people did not like, which means I would charge target A.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we're a slight charges B, C, D, and E. You didn't have Overwatch in Tent Edition.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're opening it up, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Tent Edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I can get super deep into people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's, that's, and we can, and I can shut you down, because don't forget, we still have the problem of issue with the overrun is, we still have fallback.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you can fight me, but you don't get to move in the next turn.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I have things that are decently tanky, cough cough might orcs in waffles, I could use plays like this, get into your pretty deep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to remove your next movement face.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, there's also people that don't let you move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, which is exalted.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't need exalted.
[SPEAKER_00]: Eight.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where, as I love the melee phase, this is something they've really screwed up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just going to write.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going back to things they do well because of the fact that they have the charts again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go through faces on that a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't even think of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to see charts of what's screwed up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do know that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like foreign students.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can get out of your pro-check or to see what's they got wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: When they go through, they make it a lot easier to say who can do what.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the change names on stuff, which is annoying, close combat shoot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they also fixed engagement range.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say I do like the fact and gave you images now just two inches.
[SPEAKER_00]: No more base to base fighting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know people who run mounted units sucks for you in your horses weird, but for some people they didn't like it, but this actually sucks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I'll go for a ride and figure it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the issue with it is scary.
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem with.
[SPEAKER_00]: this was a change I do my talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the changes that used to be was the way it worked was anyone in based-up-based contact fought within an inch fought or inch-and-a-half.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then anything, no, it was just one inch, but then before anything in based contact was something within that inch-contact fought, which works out really well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, no, that starts down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's how it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was, you had to be, if you wanted to fight two models.
[SPEAKER_01]: You had to have a guy in base combat that that was based on base to base.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, based to be you basically had every everyone had to be based to base.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if you wanted to fight two models that those two models had to be
[SPEAKER_00]: They had to be touching, they had to be touching, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the front one had to be touching the enemy.
[SPEAKER_00]: This, the issue with that is Hormagans, which did have a little bit of an extra rule, but what happens, and some of us like I use custom bases depending on how you modeled your units, it actually could be hard to do this while breaking models was became the issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it also like it used to be have giant people giant bases, yeah, I mean, think about it, Bobby G. Yes, you know, whoever's Logan, yeah, everybody leading on a 60, you would like you would have that guy touch and then everybody else would touch just touch him and he could and everyone could fight.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you had a fight fighting the giant or the bike, the what's his face bike.
[SPEAKER_01]: who's on the, the war truck, the war truck's on an oval.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you could just touch, you could be six inches away from the family and everybody can fight through him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like you're fighting from down the street through him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a, it caused a lot of weird jobs.
[SPEAKER_00]: My problem is less about that distance.
[SPEAKER_00]: My problem is actually more, it really was hard to get some my hoard model.
[SPEAKER_00]: So even some of my witches, when I was playing jukari, some of the gladitorial weapons, the way that they were, they were actually getting away.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I couldn't physically put them in the space that's on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's easier now.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just go here, you within two inches.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing that they did a great job of is consolidate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Consolidate right now is three inches, but then if I could get within engagement range.
[SPEAKER_01]: So effectively, even though consolidate said it was three inches, it was actually four inches because I could go three now.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're not within three, you're just not within three.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just don't care.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not engagement range.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is just you make a three-inch movement if the three-inch movement would
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you could move if the three-inch movement touches the terrain objective.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you can move period.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no otherwise you don't move.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you don't move.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is nice because it affects the safety of the currency.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of the end of the basic rules.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we're going to dig into the real nuts and bolts of this game, where they made some changes.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first thing they made changes for was terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were, it's gonna come out.
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing is, we're gonna pass on that one, we'll pass on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't, we don't have the mission pack it out, which talks about the train, so let's not bother.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't do trains in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanna talk about the terrain, the density.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just, the problem is it's just that you don't have enough of it yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're doing, I mean, Mom, just saying we can't talk about the actual mission stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also have the French stuff, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we all have the French stuff, whatever, who cares?
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't say to us, it's not my fault, I gotta be illegally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean like it's like if GW doesn't want me like using their pirated stuff Helping to stop giving it to the French but you you engage in the 500 years war with somebody and then you surprise if they thought leaking it to the internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever Look the issue is one thing in a limited edition that is both good and bad is the train changes And when I say good and bad it depends what army you play
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the big issues that we had in 10th edition, 9th and 10th, even more so was a terrain start getting really dense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really, it was just walls.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was city.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was built and it was close together.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for example, Brad doesn't care much for bane blades because he is the fun police, but there's a lot of models that you actually couldn't play with in 10th edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were certain deployments you actually could not put the model.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could put
[SPEAKER_00]: And this GW seems to have noticed that and they've now opened the terrain up quite a bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now there's almost nothing that you can't get from one side of the board to the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: My take your bet, my take your three turns, but you can't get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's visibility on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see units.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, while the charge is going to be different on stage, you have way less places to stage, because right now, the game was played with you putting your models right behind walls, and then going to the next set of walls, that is how the game is played.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a week ago in Tent finish.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just good.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Tent is not the game because they just took away
[SPEAKER_01]: 80% of the walls on the terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now in 10th edition, you have dense and light terrain and some other things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But let's call it what's going to be dense and light terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: We know we're going to see everywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, find crater.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't also the terrain's the objective.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to get in the terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a slaughter fest.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the two ways it works is we've got, I'm going to call it big terrain little terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually a lot easier than calling it dense and light.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's easier calling it, being terrain little terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Big terrain is dense terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dense terrain you can hide in little terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot hide in.
[SPEAKER_00]: little terrain bad for the can't hide in either man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could walk very slightly.
[SPEAKER_00]: It depends what you're playing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you're playing small models, you can hide.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they only they on the big terrain.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have walls that will be in a corners.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just to be the wall took up the entire piece of terrain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now if you're hiding behind that wall and I'm playing a fast army, I will shimmy 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to come to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's going to be a lot of coming around and saying hello.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to, so I'll get to my conclusion a second, but in effect, the big terrain is what allows you to kind of have much more line of sight blocking.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's where you're going to have all of your, we got quite the objective situation in a minute, but in dense terrain or big terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: infantry, beast, so kind of here with those are swarm, which is small infantry and mobile, which is, I don't know, which is mobile, it's just that's that's suits I assume, which one's size.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just everything goes through it now because the things have fly, but they go through it is a different.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all those guys go through monsters and whatnot can't go through the big term.
[SPEAKER_00]: They can go around it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The little terrain, everything goes through.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's what cases that make no difference anyways though.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's small.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's two inch pipes and everything else that you can walk through.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you can't end on it though.
[SPEAKER_00]: Period.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't end on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that makes it big difference in a lot of the way that you move stuff through because That's a huge change in 10th edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: That didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't see a lot of that in 10th edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything had to go around everything unless you were infantry.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in 10th edition you saw a lot of infantry because it was only way to move through the board.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's because you had walls everywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ells and use shapes, buildings, everywhere on the board.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I want to combine two things here about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So one, I now don't need infantry anymore to move or across the board.
[SPEAKER_00]: And two covers kind of a pain in the ass to get.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now all of a sudden, this has potential to be a much more vehicle edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we're battle suit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Terrence Vermeer said any of the things will fly because you have to be completely behind shit now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I suppose to in it, which means you need fast moving stuff that has things like the fly keyword where you can actually jump over all the ship.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's so that's what other one is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now everything still has they did keep the templates, which is good or whatever they call at the base things, which is nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now, if I'm behind something,
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't see me.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm in something, they still have.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can see.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's solid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, but it's obscuring.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the angle to this terrain.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so easy to hit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hunter, because, again, you're not just jammed up behind walls.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited to see this play.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about some of the strategies of stuff, because I think this is a huge one.
[SPEAKER_00]: The one, the one more thing I want to talk about with this is around these things is
[SPEAKER_00]: This is going to be a very killy edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of what the conclusion I want to get to.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we talk about this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the conclusion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, bread and I talk about a lot other players we've talked about.
[SPEAKER_00]: This dissedition is probably not going to be a lot of five turns because the other piece, too, that we haven't been talking about is we've moved the objectives.
[SPEAKER_00]: We used to have objective markers that were certain places.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now your objective is in these terrain pieces and there are more
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it is the terrain, so before you would go, hey, here's an objective and I'd hide behind the terrain and stand on the objective.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now the terrain is the objective and if I'm in the objective, you can see me because actually the objective and it's, there is no way to hide anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I'm holding it, which I'm actually good about because we played a very big game of hopscouching and hide even though like my battle cry is not in the face.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm okay with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be a slaughter fest of an addition.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's when also I want to go into this top, this top strat because this is a big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: The strats are brutal.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we're just talking about what's called core strats, which everyone has access to.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and you don't mean command re-roll.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, command re-roll can scroll off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, one of the huge things in 11th edition, if you spend a strategy on a unit, you cannot do anything else with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can't spend another strad.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for instance, I'm playing my blood angels and I use advance and charge a strategy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't target that you do with another strad, which means that if I roll my charge, and I can't get there, I cannot re-roll that charge because that is a strategy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You only spend it's, it's it for the round or the phase.
[SPEAKER_01]: to do to I'm going to scroll through it again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's that I don't remember it's the round of the phase.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a phase.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm saying that's the same phase.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I thought if that's in charge was used and then moving base.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it depends on what they move them around.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why because some of them, it's like, at the end of the movement base, you declare that you're going to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've played, I've had people hit me with that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you actually have to declare any movement phase.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do they buy?
[SPEAKER_00]: So what do they sell it?
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the ones comes of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what the thing is, you can't do like, hey, I'm playing Blades or Ultramar.
[SPEAKER_01]: As soon as you shoot me, I pop three slash four defensive stretch.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, do that anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: which is actually really nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the strats that changed quite a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even realize this is to Horton explained it to her point it out to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Heroic intervention, heroic intervention, this jolly's hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: The new anaerobic is brutal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, for what the regular heroic is exactly the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, actually side exactly say into the thing where it is off within 12.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But so heroic intervention is now instead of six inches, it's 12 inches and then you roll to see if you can basically make a charge on your opponent's face after all charges are done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now for one
[SPEAKER_01]: you can, as long as somebody's within six inches of you, you can just go, you missed something.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first part of it is, you have to do it with someone who charged.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you didn't say.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why you know, the first part of it is once you pee, if someone charged at the end of the charge phase, you can try to basically charge that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The second part of it is called leap into the frame, and if someone's within six inches of you at the end of the charge phase, they don't have to have made a charge.
[SPEAKER_01]: For two CP instead of one CP, I can just charge that unit, which is a huge deal, which is... That is devastating.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for a lot of army, which means you had it now.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're playing a melee army, you have to get out of the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: you cannot like you have to watch out because if you had something like I don't think I'm going to leave the zirkers in six inches off them for example, but you got to be aware that they could just make that huge you know you get within six inches you're trying to take that you're sitting on that terrain piece.
[SPEAKER_01]: You definitely don't want to be six inches because it's at the end of the still at the end of the charge phase when it's your opponent's charge.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I have to ask Courtney is with this with this work with the surge move.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now,
[SPEAKER_01]: What's that?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, this is, this is specifically, this is a different face.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a different difference.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, other way around.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why it makes them up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you the same thing and Hart made fun of me last night.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I really like is the strategy of keys.
[SPEAKER_01]: So basically, if you have two arrows, it's either players turn down arrow, your opponent's turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: on everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: And up arrow is the opponent's turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: What she said was green blue red is actually what it is up up down down left right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: By the way, it's not he's just oh he is right.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are colored.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's just mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just mean for Brad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever double arrow down arrow up arrow.
[SPEAKER_00]: That just mean for Brad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Couple other fun changes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Another one is disembarking.
[SPEAKER_00]: disembarking.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, disembarkings and they're really big ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: So disembarkings been another one that's been gained a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it really doesn't get disembarking.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just getting out of something.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: The issue with getting out of something is it's a way to get some extra movement.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's some fun tricks people can do around this.
[SPEAKER_00]: regular disembarking.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one cares.
[SPEAKER_00]: That part's easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what matters a lot more is what they're going to call here combat disembarkment or yes, but it's not gaming anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: They effectively made it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's emergency disembarking emergency.
[SPEAKER_01]: So big one combat is the
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The changes are big on this, because one comet disembarkation, so if you had tried to surround my vehicle, but I still have great distance.
[SPEAKER_01]: So normal disembarkation, rapid and they called rapid and tactical, basically is your vehicle moved or has it not moved?
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the only two differences.
[SPEAKER_01]: But comet disembarkation is six inches.
[SPEAKER_01]: So John puts a bunch of
[SPEAKER_01]: is which is all over my right now, my transport, and I can't fit normally.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can make a combat disembarkation move, which means I can get out within six, and now I take a hazardous role, which means on a one and two, I take a wound.
[SPEAKER_01]: However,
[SPEAKER_01]: I can put my models in, which has never been done before.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can put them in engagement range of your models.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's actually a big deal if I'm a hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: It goes, if you have dirt that you're out of the boys, then lose me an inch closer, but I'll see we had to with a two inch engagement range.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but I'm just saying that, yes, it's a big deal, though, because if I have a melee unit and you were trying to survive, if your storm boys were trying to make me not get out of the vehicle,
[SPEAKER_01]: and you're out in the master's of the mail strip get out and I'm in engagement with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, go, I have a, I want to have a talk with you about you trying to make it so I could get out of here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've, that's a, they just kind of thematic, though, the idea of like a fucking storm boy's hitting the outside of a rhino with a chopper and then like, you're on walking out like, what, what is the conversation you need to have right now?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like before it, in 10th edition, if you did not have the space to get out
[SPEAKER_00]: One rule I don't know is, you can ask me right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what if you can't get all the models out?
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's say I surround you, all right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I take my boys, I surround your transport.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can't get all of the guys out to get a portion out?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the only way you can get not everybody out is if the unit, if the vehicle actually exploded, and then you're allowed to be, then you're like to have a portion of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I do, I'd emergent these at disembarkation.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the emergency is also big because now you do now it's one's and two so they increased it used to be on a one you lost a model now it's a one to choose that one so take a move you just take once yeah but I think it used to be on a one you lost a model now one is not in the addition it was always one with when you're the one but you lost the model.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it looks like I pulled some models I shouldn't have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if I had a bunch of one, one model.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought I was not going to say, like, I don't care.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's just a wound.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you take a wound at a one or two instead of one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like this quite a bit because you have larger engagement.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's harder to get people out if somebody's on top of you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they basically gave you an option to just go, hey, would you like to just be engaged with this unit?
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you are battle-shocked on this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I can use a strategy on you, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all that's going to really matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't use strategy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a big deal in that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is the official?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's because in 1980, I think back to 1980 edition, where you lost a model on the one or the two.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll take the no strategy over like, oh, if you're a custod player, it's like, oh, cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I lost two dudes versus one dudes down to two down to one wound.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's also not, see, this is why with so much easier in 10th and 11th.
[SPEAKER_01]: In 8th and 9th, you just lost guys, period.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you're taking wounds.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can film a pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can just shake that off by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's done.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just lost guys, period.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now let me talk about the leader thing because this one's a little bit wonky.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is grand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I like this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first part of it I like the second part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the, I guess it makes sense, but it's weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you don't let's talk about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to talk about the things that are different on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: So before if you brought a leader back, a lot of people had things that said, you know, Necrons, battle sisters, things like back up one bit though.
[SPEAKER_00]: So one of the challenges before was if a leader is leading a unit, there's a bonus.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'll use an easy one, war bosses.
[SPEAKER_00]: When war bosses later unit, they get plus one to their hit wall.
[SPEAKER_00]: simple, easy done.
[SPEAKER_00]: The problem is when that, if that war boss, if you killed the whole unit and the war boss was alive, that bonus is gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now the war boss goes back to hitting on us those twos.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are the power claw.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, let's go threes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, which is a thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now they're saying, no, if he was ever attached to a unit, that bonus is there forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it stays hitting on twos.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: The bigger things is to bring
[SPEAKER_00]: But that this is where it's gets goofy and I guess it's sense it used to be so annoying.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I was part of a I'm more boss Brad is leading a unit and I am with 10 boys.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I got killed and then brought back, I would no longer be with that unit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would be out of engagement range and not part of the unit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now
[SPEAKER_01]: If you precision out of the character, you prison out of a sister, anybody that has the ability to resurrect a model, or a character, Necron, sisters, or a tube that come to immediate come to mind.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if I'm in combat, I rejoin my unit, and I'm in engagement range, and I continue to fight.
[SPEAKER_01]: So before you were, you just had to set to the side, all weird, which I thought was stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just joined the fray again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and that's that is that part's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the other part where this goes back to the thing we mentioned earlier, where, okay, if I kill a unit down and the character's left, I can't overwatch him if he runs behind a wall.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, okay, so if that runs with reanimation protocols, that character can run behind a wall and hang out back there for a couple of turns.
[SPEAKER_00]: And regain three or four models.
[SPEAKER_00]: and come right back out from behind that wall with quite a nice unit fighting back down now because the units did the units not there anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you're still there.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's the unit's there.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how I've interpreted this because the bodyguard, it's still calmed down.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's still, now he's just gets the bonuses from it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm looking at the other.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's an attention to unit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still considered.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're going to have to go to the rules guys for this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the judge.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and on a question, how about yeah, that can be a question.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how what I'm getting is off Reddit.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what that's how people have interpreted to me is that because they have,
[SPEAKER_00]: That's still counts.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still a full unit.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a part I didn't like.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could actually raise up.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could bring it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could bring the whole unit back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can see that.
[SPEAKER_00]: If that fans, yes, if that is, if that is that if I'm wrong, I'm happy to be wrong about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm okay with being wrong about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that was one of the things I was pushing back on.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if I'm wrong, cool, forget my complaint.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that was the one that I was like, hey, that's not cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah,
[SPEAKER_00]: So, there's that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't really care about the repositioning and the strat reserve.
[SPEAKER_00]: That means nothing to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Surge moves means nothing to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fly is awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: R is great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Plunging fires still bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your biggest goal?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the reason I'm like plunging fires, so here's a probably plunging fire, it's just very simple problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: What ballistic skill do you give nights?
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason the issue with plunging fires is they're hitting on twos all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what that unless you move the force, because the reason I bring this up is that cow players and vote 10 players know what I'm talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then when you give an army of very easy access to plus one to hit GW has a history of reducing their ballistic skill.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the problem is that do they then move nights to a ballistic skill of four?
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a night.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as much as I don't really like nights, I will defend night players and be like that thing should probably not hit on 50% of the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's dumb.
[SPEAKER_01]: You still have, like, is there gonna have our time not getting people in cover and stuff like that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they're big.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's one of those areas where like that's why the issue of plunging fire as I like I just think they shouldn't have given it tonight.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all that was all my issue because I think it is a weird mechanic on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is there to be 12 inches away, which most of the time will be that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's again, it's just one of those areas of I think it's a we saw to start it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say they're like, they're starting a 10th edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: How much fun were knights in the board?
[SPEAKER_01]: take nights and right thing can go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're opening a level.
[SPEAKER_00]: The addition was the exact same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so if now we're not as much, it's just one of those things are like, come on guys, this is avoidable, unforceders, unforceders, what are we doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Unforceders.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's all.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I also did like the addition of Cleve, another nice thing that they did solve for is now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Last for hand to hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, hand to hand blast is nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: One thing, you know, certain models like the lion, obviously.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we got to talk about fight first in a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the lion having the ability to have, you know, I can hit you with my big attack on my sweet attack.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now a lot more people get this like a baby version of sweep, which I like because it was
[SPEAKER_00]: I play hard, but there's kind of level still hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would like to see not have to see gargoyles anymore on the board.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, right, but Gargoyles, they get abusive pretty quickly and I think this edition, it feels like, I'll be getting reading lot of the rules, someone doesn't like Gargoyles because like the nine inch, nine inch rule, right, you can't make a surge move if you come in from deep strike.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't, I think if you make a certain, a bunch of restrictions and all the Gargoyles do and now you've had it in cleave.
[SPEAKER_00]: So basically, Gargoyles disappear
[SPEAKER_00]: But we actually, when we talked about fight days, we totally forgot to talk about how they dated fight first.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I couldn't be here about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is 100% what it should.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the exact.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, the fact that they invalidate it, they invalidated the abuse of fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the better it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so dumb before.
[SPEAKER_01]: The line.
[SPEAKER_01]: It all acknowledges.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, is the active player chooses the first fight of fight first.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the defender before us.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for those of you who don't play the game, one of the real problems in Tenth edition was some models had a rule called fight first.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that Tenth edition was written is the defending player actually has the first fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if they have a fight first, but charges give you fight first.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if defending player picks first, if they have a model with fight first, they pick first.
[SPEAKER_00]: So in effect, a model with fight first, who gets charged, actually is the first model to activate.
[SPEAKER_00]: So a unit that's very powerful in melee, with fight first, was incredibly dangerous.
[SPEAKER_00]: and almost invincible in some scenarios.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we'll use the lion as a good example of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: The lion had fight first or a judiceer leading blade guard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Judice, Judy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Judice, Judy.
[SPEAKER_00]: The issue is if you charge it, they will activate first and they will slaughter whatever you put into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you actually, so if you charge it, you're basically just giving them something to kill.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even if you charge it with two units, you had to charge it with two units that were tough enough to handle at least one chunk of the attacks in order to kill them back.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: So these units would just, you could all get a shoot them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, they'd wander around the board just being left alone.
[SPEAKER_00]: in 11 edition, they have adapted this, and they've said, no, the player who's turned it is to attack gets to fight the very first, but it's the first and to choose and to fight first, which the fight first people are a little bit upset about because they realized their fight first characters are in die pretty quickly, because I'm not going to fight this person.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's effectively a free interruption, I mean, it's where it should have been.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I agree with where it should be.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, again, it lessens the value of those units.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the Judas here, once again, so he got, he was really cool to start of, it was at my finish when he came out, and then he got really dusty for a little bit, and then he got polished off, and, you know, you've got a lot of play and temptation that was gonna go back to being pretty dusty again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't really do anything otherwise.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: You still can't fight multiple combat for free on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I still think that it's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just where it should been.
[SPEAKER_00]: Will you run a jesus here?
[SPEAKER_00]: I never let you go to see her, but now because it's a big deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to remember thinking about works when you were born.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because of the fact that you had fight on death and interrupt, it was a huge fight on death.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a failed fantastic fight on death.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is, that's magnificent.
[SPEAKER_00]: What else we missing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, then the world of psychic phases still gone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Womp.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then I think last little bit we'll get into is kind of what our hopes are for the edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: And because I think that's kind of all the rules that we should probably should talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now, what do we think the edition's gonna be?
[SPEAKER_00]: Other than Rungoli, Killy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's gonna be very alpha striking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's not just Killy.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's gonna be alpha striking.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all three turn games.
[SPEAKER_01]: It depends.
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be one of the things of... Oh wait, hold on, forgive us.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they wanted coaching on this, could they email somewhere to get to get coaching boys?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: You could.
[SPEAKER_01]: I won't get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man, that's 40 kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Email.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, but if you want to not get coaching advice, you can email that or join our discord.
[SPEAKER_00]: But as far as this edition goes, I think, yeah, so people want to build an army for 11th edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: That probably Iron Hands was, Iron Warriors wasn't a good call, but I don't care.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: What should they be leading to?
[SPEAKER_01]: Speed.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that speed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Speed damage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll still be damaged.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, my army's shiny.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: That counts for something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It should be speed.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all getting angles, basically.
[SPEAKER_00]: This edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's getting angles.
[SPEAKER_01]: Getting angles at the distance.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's being able to close the distance and getting angles.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that you can be tanky enough to survive?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that's going to handle this?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I was thinking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think your stoves are going to be fine enough because of the fact that rapid ingress and deep strike now exists.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: They have good shooting.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're rapid ingress somewhere and you make it, again, rapid ingress is a strategy that says, at the end of your opponent's move phase, you get to bring a unit in, and custodes come from the sky so they can put their models anywhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is super devastating now because of the changes to the melee, being able to, they could just touch your army after they put their cells in a perfect position.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to see people rapid ingressing on two and three every single turn, every single game.
[SPEAKER_00]: I already see a lot of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my question on custos, those can they hold of the electives in the sedition?
[SPEAKER_00]: If they can't have all your guys or dead, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because that's, this is what I'm trying to figure out about the sedition is I'm looking at it, you know, we're going to do, I'm going to talk to you about Cheapalover and we're going to practice.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you might, you mean, be honest with you, maybe I'm completely wrong on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been wrong, I'll be wrong again, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: But...
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's a real chance that you can see that much tanky shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that you're going to see a lot of damage come out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm wondering.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I'm trying to think about is, like, I don't know what 13 armies, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I own?
[SPEAKER_00]: That could actually that I could take.
[SPEAKER_00]: that my shooting because the truth, the matter is you have to give it a quarter of your opponent's shooting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you have to be, you have to be, you're going to have to be in the open and you're not getting the plus one.
[SPEAKER_01]: The plus one, the cover saved was a big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what I'm telling.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm going through it, even if so, I think about my, you know, deathguard arc.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my terminators are tough, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're tough.
[SPEAKER_00]: But can they really handle a quarter of my opponents are me shooting at them assuming they'll be AP1 coming in?
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll be in cover.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could probably get them into a terrain feature, so it'll be minus one to hit, but the opponent finds a way around that, but they're still saving on threes.
[SPEAKER_00]: not saving on to is anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I mean, like this is what I'm wondering.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can they really hold an objective or are we going to be in an addition where, you know, you're just your holding your home and you're trying to hold one other.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think you look at Tao who's coming up the board on your hardened fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to be coming out of this devilfish all over the place.
[SPEAKER_00]: Overwatch is, you know, this is why I'm wondering for an addition, as far as building goes, it is going to be a hold, hold, hold, just try to kill as much as you can and hope that they can't clap your back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just garbage goes out, scores, and then you keep killing their garbage, and then you kill the real shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: But can the garbage go out and score, though?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's my thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because some of the, what we have to talk is when you see the missions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like some of the missions are scored at the end of your turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: As opposed to just holding things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess, I just saw a couple of those.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just, I might, the thing is it's just, there's nowhere to hide.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that alumni, I just, I look at these boards, some other sports, there's nowhere to hide.
[SPEAKER_00]: And especially unless they change ranges.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nan auto cannons got real good in this edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad I hadn't I was happy this stuff came out before I finished building this arm because I wasn't going to put auto cannons on my habits now I'm like Good dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because before it's AP one flat three damage wasn't that good now Tell me more about the AP one flat three damage.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gone Yes, it's such a big deal now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like rule because the last cannons.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll still put them on there But AP one flat three damage
[SPEAKER_00]: Really with sustained really legit this could hurt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, so push up on stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're going to create stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to create stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to create movement.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to make people get you already have to do that a bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do let.
[SPEAKER_01]: As much as I like hired again abusing stuff, because I play a competitive game, yeah, I love the fact that I can't just sit on a wall, go to the new wall.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it made the way that you play the game the same every time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, like coach that right now in 10th edition, I go turn one and depending on whether you win first or second, turn two or the same thing every time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know exactly what you're going to do, you know exactly what I'm going to do, that's just how the game's played and maybe it'll be kind of that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but I'm hoping it's going to be different, especially with the different detachment and the way that missions now work depending on what detachment you have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we're playing a different mission based on what you brought and I brought.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although I'm waiting to see that that's the one piece I haven't seen yet how the competitive piece is going to be we see a casual Like we'll see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I actually think that this edition is the best casual edition It is the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh hands down the beer and pretzel versions amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't trans like Correct for competitive so we we're all we will see yeah, but like for if you just come to your house and play the game This is awesome
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this is going to be so much fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to have so much diversity.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is going to be a really great way to play the game, really, really great way to play the game.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a that I'm excited for.
[SPEAKER_00]: My questions are still more on from at the tournament level, because you just can't do that at the tournament level.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to see a little bit of chances.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel?
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think for now that the addition, it is shaping up to be well, they seem to fix that melee thing because that is dangerous.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really do believe that the melee thing is the whole charge phase and the nut limiting where I put my models is dangerous.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is going to get abused and it's going to have to get fixed pretty quickly because
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess looking you and I are both friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm friends with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You play melee.
[SPEAKER_00]: I play me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not very good at this game But we have friends who but I friends between you and other people who are very good with melee armies Who will make that a horrible experience?
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% I think it's it's gonna be we cough cough out
[SPEAKER_01]: see what we have on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited for the new edition.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, to me, great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, and the truth is, like, we're supposed to have growing pains.
[SPEAKER_00]: The start of an edition is supposed to have growing pains.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will say, the stuff coming out now, thanks to the way the world is these days, we figure out this growing pains quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: And with the way GW is they can adjust them quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: My expectation is that by November, we'll have a pretty good version of this edition and it will continue to improve as we go through.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just will not be surprised if when I play in July and August, there are some, all right, this game's gonna suck games.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's okay, and that's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's part of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's just, I'm not upset about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just am, whatever, you just accept it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also playing with little dumb plastic figures.
[SPEAKER_00]: Play with toy soldiers, maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Always look at that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's been good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to kind of have something fun if you ought to listen to and listen to Brad and I potentially be horrifically wrong about a few things.
[SPEAKER_00]: as I am want to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want more competitive stuff, I will send you guys a link in the show notes to Brad's channel.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's doing a lot more stuff over there where he talks much more competitively than I showed or do or can.
[SPEAKER_00]: So check that out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really great stuff over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give him a follow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Help his channel grow.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Till then, John Barsotti, Brad Chester.
[SPEAKER_00]: Disguise.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you guys then?
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you very much.