[SPEAKER_01]: So if you guys have followed along for a while that you know that at the beginning, we used to talk a lot about child training.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's because a lot of our parenting revolved around child training.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had a lot of little kids close together.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I feel like this is a common thing that happens with parenting as as your older children get more complicated and move into different levels of where it's requiring more from you as a parent.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's easy to kind of drop the things that you did with them when they were little, but now they have all these little siblings, and Those siblings are still acquiring the same amount of attention or Or should be anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: So why should I kind of have had our eyes open recently to needing to refocus on child training the little years?
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been kind of doing some band-aid parenting and
[SPEAKER_01]: And just wanted to chat with you guys about that today because we figured that some of you might be in a similar season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just to spread of some older children that are seeking to please and that you're working with more on an emotional level and then having those little guys that still just need that black and white discipline.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's been said countless times that parenting is one of the more humbling journeys you can go on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that certainly has been the case for us and as our older children, and they're not, you know, we don't even have adolescent children yet, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Our oldest is nine years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes he considers himself an adolescent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think sometimes we're parenting and adolescent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because there are a few places to help us.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there is the older children.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's that adage that we'll often say.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, okay, what got us here won't get us there, where we need to adjust our tactics, our principles, even sometimes, and just kind of our strategies around parenting the older children, and becomes more relational, and it's really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: We really enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, as you've already alluded to, Katie,
[SPEAKER_00]: been guilty of abandoning some of the principles and tactics and strategies with the younger children that did get us good fruit, when our older children were younger and got us to this stage with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and again, that's the nice thing about parenting is it's like you always have an opportunity to when your children are young, especially, to, I guess, come before each other, come before the Lord, acknowledge our shortcomings, repent, you know, ask for forgiveness.
[SPEAKER_00]: To each other, you know, I've both done that a lot over the last few weeks is apologize to each other for dropping the ball in parenting, but some of our, you know, primarily our youngest, and maybe youngest two at times.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we love them in their sweet kids, but that's the nature of children.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the nature of humanity, is, you know, foolishness is bound up in the heart of a child.
[SPEAKER_00]: We know that it is incumbent upon parents to help our children at a young age not be slaves to their flesh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our flesh does lead us to death, and when you become a slave to your flesh, you're never happy, you're never satisfied, you're miserable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you see that in such an acute way with toddlers and with children that are getting to two, three, four years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a privilege and it's an honor, but it's also a responsibility, you know, in a duty to train our children to not be subservient to their flesh, but to be able to rise above that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've not done that great over the last, you know, maybe year or so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's interesting how our youngest right now, we kind of wrote off a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been a hard tether, and that he genuinely is in pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of times, I think, as it is tea.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's been going on for a very long time, like a whole year of his life, and then you kind of have to step back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so then when he's not going through teeth in season, he still is the same attitude, basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's funny how then you have to realize, like, oh, okay, everyone, the two-year-old, is getting teeth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that is what they are doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there are some that can do it in a pleasant way, and there are some that do it in a way that's very demanding and controlling of a whole family.
[SPEAKER_01]: I used to think of, and we'll still hear people who say, like, oh, we can't do that, or we aren't going to go to that church because they don't have child care so we can't go, or we can't, you know, go to a restaurant because we have our little kids, and I always used to think, oh, that's such a bummer that your kids would exclude you from being able to enjoy that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's funny is the lieshen I have found herself totally looking at each other and thinking that.
[SPEAKER_01]: being like, well, we can't go there because we know that's going to be a disaster.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the first time we've done that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's very first time we just kind of accepted that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We did.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it just hit us like, okay, we don't need to just accept this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of the biggest things was we had been pacifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: our youngest child, and the unfortunate thing about pacifying is that eventually you run out of things to pacify with, whether that's toys or food or distraction, and then you realize how they have the over and a barrel, because then there's literally nothing else you can do.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't just say, hey, sit on my lap and be happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: They will arch and scream and cry, and
[SPEAKER_01]: because you have nothing to pass by.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I mean, that's just a, again, it's such a, it's such a illustration for humanity because that continues to be the case for all of us as we grow as human beings, as when you continually pacify yourself, which we have plenty of opportunity to pacify our selves, you know, as adults even with food, with media, with entertainment, with work, with other
[SPEAKER_00]: and you can keep yourself busy and you can keep yourself distracted and you can be doing that to mask or to cover up a deficiency in your soul and your heart for the Lord and your faith or even in character and again it's just a principle that continues on all through life for it's okay, wait a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you see a character short-cominger and it might even sound extremely calling it a character flaw in a toddler, but it's really what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they're letting their, and we are, we're letting their flesh in their bodily desires determine what's, what's the difference between the two of us?
[SPEAKER_00]: the behavior is right and that's just a bad precedent to start for any of our for any of us and yet as adults were guilty of doing that were guilty of you know we recently talked about just you know like kind of an edge like peptides and health stuff and
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I thought more about that since the, since the thing and of course, every story is different, never situations different, but even the fact that we're not willing in general to just actually feel hunger, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I'm just speaking for myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I'm not willing to,
[SPEAKER_00]: I say not willing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not accustomed to just going hungry for extended periods of time or making my body work harder than what's comfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Running further, walking further, standing on my feet longer than what is comfortable for my body.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just look at the chairs that we have in our homes.
[SPEAKER_00]: The couch is the cars, the temperatures, the climate control, everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we just do all that we can to make ourselves comfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that can really be masking deficiencies in our soul, like I said.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyways, not to get off track from the discipline and child training and all those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we've really failed our children and that's what is so obvious when you actually step back and realize that our children
[SPEAKER_00]: are less happy when we are failing and giving them boundaries and being consistent with training.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're the most, we know we see it in other people oftentimes and then so it's always the more convincing in your own children that those are the most miserable children, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like happy children aren't children with no boundaries, happy children aren't children that get all of their bodily desires, you know, fulfilled at every minute of every day, they're the most miserable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not that our youngest was miserable, but he was clearly less content and less joyful than any of our kids have been at this stage.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'd say like ever since he was born, he's kind of been that way, which, you know, he's got plenty of time to grow out of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We aren't worried for his future.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that there is an element of having older kids that brought in different variables, again, slightly older children.
[SPEAKER_01]: though that have come into play.
[SPEAKER_01]: So one, we aren't home as much as often.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we are at more sporting events.
[SPEAKER_01]: We stay out later, we are at, you know, just traveling more like even the fiddle competitions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so these are more opportunities where when you're out in public it's easier to pacify because disciplining in public is difficult, holding a boundary in public is
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of refreshing like okay sit here on my lap if your child is going to arch and scream in that moment everyone's going to look at you who like your crazy and you're disrupting the whole environment if you just let that happen you know so it's like you have to be really trained up to go in those scenarios and we were not doing that because you can't really train in those scenarios
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've talked about that before, where, you know, Sunday church when you have your family altogether sitting in, you know, in the Sunday service, that's, that should not be child.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it sometimes turns into child training time, but that's really, it reveals where you're at with your training of your children, because they really are calling the shots once they are, once you're in a Sunday service.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I was telling a lie, shy, it's such envy this week at church.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's friends of ours and they have seven children, or eight, now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and they're all sitting in the very front row of church and their child that's like a few months older than our youngest It's just like sitting there so contentedly, and I was just like a live show We messed up big time like they were just sweat and bullets over here But what is really encouraging about
[SPEAKER_01]: kids the sage is it doesn't take a lot of consistency.
[SPEAKER_01]: It only takes a few days actually to get the momentum going in the right direction and then you have to maintain that consistency in order to keep that building.
[SPEAKER_01]: But okay so being out in public has been a big thing and then another thing that I think changed subtly that we didn't really realize is the older children's
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, are doing a lot of activities too that need more of my focused attention or a lightest focus attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when he's teaching on music lessons or when we're eating dinner, and we want to actually all visit, it's not like a child training time like it used to be, or school, you know, home school is another time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's funny is I think a big, I used to have to rely on and people freak out about the term blanket training.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's probably been done very poorly by some people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but the way we've done it is we put a blanket on the ground, put toys, put books, but all the things, and the young child has to stay on the blanket for about 20 minutes or so.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that really allowed me to, once we trained that, really allowed me to focus for 20 minutes on school.
[SPEAKER_01]: But because we've had the luxury of having a wonderful young gal helped me out two days a week.
[SPEAKER_01]: She comes during that math hour.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's been able to take Climin when he's messy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've not trained him during that time because he's busy, he's having fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, he's technically being pacified and that he's being played with.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I thought, oh, this is a great win, but then I realized, oh, there's no other time during the day where I'm helping him establish boundaries for himself or being obedient or whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's just constantly doing what he wants to do all day long until we go into a public scenario and say, oh, you can't do that and he goes, what?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you guys, we have to interrupt this episode because if you've seen my hat, it's a little bit of a music academy, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're watching on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Elijah, Leon and I have kind of been fighting over it because it's the only one we have.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a prototype.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I wanted to just congratulate all the families that are doing the six songs of summer challenge because we talked about that on here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just feel like we should update people without the first week
[SPEAKER_01]: yeah first week is uh... in the books three hundred and seventy three participants is that crazy you guys for all of you guys leading week one just had such big smiles on all our faces seen all the families for to buffet all the different bands all the different instruments some people are doing it as individuals to which has been super inspiring for our kids to watch and uh...
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I'm just like so pumped up.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're looking for music lessons heading into the fall, I know a lot of us were homeschooling, or even, you know, if you're kids private school or public school, you're looking for what are the resources we're going to use in the fall.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm always surprised with how soon that comes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're looking for an incredible Christian community for your children to learn music in,
[SPEAKER_01]: I know I'm biased, but I'm highly recommend but we're music academy.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do have a discount code for you guys if you want to sign up, get a little taste of it, see a little bit of how the challenge looks, get to know some of the families in there before you start in the fall.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, there's around 2,000 families, I want to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: that are currently enrolled in VMA and I think they're just incredible people to meet.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it'd be definitely worth poking around and getting a little bit of the summer challenge even before you start lessons in the fall.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I mean, being on the live calls is always a highlight of my week or month whenever I do the calls.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get off of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, Katie, these are the coolest people that I get to do music lessons with tons of home schooled families, tons of amazing Christian parents and kids that are, I don't know, it's just, it just gets me fired up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we have a blast and we'd love to meet some more of you.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we'll get back to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and some other things that you, you mentioned some things that have changed the dinner table dynamic, the children, the older children needing more of our attention, or I say needing, we're giving more of our attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like we enjoyed that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a blaster in federal lessons, because the kids are getting better.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're enjoying, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're like little friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're fun to hang out with.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then another thing that's changed is the family evening time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think that, you know, blanket time was a critical component of each one of our children's training.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then family reading time in the evening has been a critical component to all of our children's training time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it has changed even with the older children being far more interested in everything that we're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it used to be like, Daddy reads the Bible and then, and nobody said anything, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then mommy read a book and nobody said anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was really, there were really clear boundaries and it was really obvious.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our older kids now are participating in the conversation, which I actually love, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We cherish that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now when I'm reading the Bible,
[SPEAKER_00]: we're asking questions and children are, you know, they're starting to recognize verses and they're interjecting, and same goes with the books that we're reading, like they're very engaged in the story and they're asking questions and when they get confused on, whatever, a part of the story or who a character is, they ask the ask questions and it's changed the focus of those times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we're actually enjoying the content.
[SPEAKER_00]: more than ever, where I think before, the content was like secondary, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We were just, we wanted a reason to sit down and hold the young child on my lap and have them get become accustomed to that, and then you would hold the next youngest child on your lap, and they would become accustomed to that, and then the other children would sit quietly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so not only has that, it's happened a little less frequently, the family, by the family evening times, because of youth sports and youth activities,
[SPEAKER_00]: But even when it does happen, the nature of it has shifted.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a good thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we just need to adapt and adjust.
[SPEAKER_00]: And remember some of the things with the younger children, even though it has changed with the older children.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one other thing too, along with that is, I haven't wanted to stress out the older kids and wreck the time with training the youngest.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like when all the kids were little, you know, they're three and under, it's really easy to be like, okay, well, they all kind of need to be trained to still still and have self-control and all those things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now,
[SPEAKER_01]: The big kids are really into the story, or the big kids are really into the conversation, and so stopping that to be like, we're going to prioritize the one-year-old's growth here in virtue and character.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of a downer for everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's been one of those things where I really petitioned Alisha often, hey, could we just put the baby to bed and then do this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because then it's
[SPEAKER_01]: so much more enjoyable, but that's been so short-sighted because then we can't enjoy anything when the baby is present.
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of, okay, we're gonna take a week.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, guys, this is just how it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Baby's priority here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna work with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what these evenings are about.
[SPEAKER_01]: If we get something else in, that's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then,
[SPEAKER_01]: The baby's going to sit there and want to be able to enjoy everything we're going to do as a family with the baby being present, which is just a lot more practical than always having to put the baby to bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have a good time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, anytime you're using a band aid for things that that's not appropriate for you do pay for it and like you said it seems like okay, let's get the baby to bed or give them a snack real quick so that we can keep reading because we're all into the story right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes sense, I mean, you think it makes sense, but deep down, you know, that's why it's like you want to follow through with principles, you know, like you can't let the situation sometimes it shouldn't dictate, so your behavior as much as it does, because you all the kids pay for it down the road, they're not able to have as much fun and going to, you know, events, going to parties, weddings, you know, even out in public, you know, to concerts,
[SPEAKER_00]: we in a believe in sooner because Yeah, and like you said, or people just end up, you know, opting out altogether for a chunk of their life.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, the baby, you know, like if he's he can't be out in public, he can't sit quiet.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we had found ourselves in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It starts so slow, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like,
[SPEAKER_00]: It starts like, okay, we're at church, we all start in the service, and then he's a little fussy, and then okay, get him some Cheerios, okay, get him a toy to play with, throw on that, okay, just stand up and bounce him in the back, and then, okay, now we're stepping out there, and it's like, this isn't a child that's like 12 to 14 months where I would say doing things like that, like
[SPEAKER_01]: is not training them to be naughty if that makes sense because they don't necessarily know what's required of them in that moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just kind of like you're keeping them quiet by default versus an 18-month-year-old through two-year-old child is going to know what's required of him because if you say, hey, don't touch that, he will touch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you say, hey, sit still.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he knows exactly what you're telling him to do and not to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the age that we're talking about here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and something else too before I move on, I think you brought a good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a week at the most.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm sure varies with each child and with each parent's style.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's not like, oh guys, for the next six months, we don't get to enjoy family reading time because it's just going to be training a child.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a few evenings of
[SPEAKER_00]: establishing those boundaries and holding to those boundaries.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you get to go back to enjoying the reading as a family.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we, um, yeah, we failed to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And but we're motivated.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what's like you said, already seeing progress because it's been worth two days, three days.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's this is the second afternoon, actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been convicted about this for a while, but we haven't made steps to be committed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we recognized it a few weeks ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's so what we've just kind of been doing is basically just having that be the priority of the day and other things, I mean for me, and then the priority of the evening's winner-licious here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for instance, what we've kind of been doing is the blanket comes out, now we're working on blanket time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yesterday was his first day doing the blanket ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: and he hated it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It took like he just cried and cried and cried and he did not want to be happy on the blanket.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I, you know, it was one of those training times you're waiting for the wind so you could call it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can call it on your own terms, because as a parent, you want to end on your terms.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the whole point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, the baby just learned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, if I cry enough, then they quit.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to, whenever you're in a training session, you have to commit to it long enough till you can get the child compliant.
[SPEAKER_01]: enough to say, great, good job.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you're done.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of what happened yesterday.
[SPEAKER_01]: It took a long time to get him to a place where he got kind of distracted.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was enjoying looking at his book for a few minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe like a minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, okay, good job, Lime, and you're happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: We make it off the flag.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was like a fake win yesterday, and then today he ended up getting within a few minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: He got engaged and just sat down on the blanket and again, it wasn't easy today, but he actually ended up enjoying himself, knowing what was required for about five minutes before I went and grabbed him and was like, okay, good job, we're done.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's day two.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know he's now knowing like okay I can't get away with this so I might as well just enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like he's in a prison.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's got blankets and toys and things he can do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's like what you know we're going back to like what do we do with our big kids?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because again our big kids we had.
[SPEAKER_01]: for for an under and they were just such a joy to take places.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Always and we go to coffee shops, we go to restaurants, we go to they'd all send church, we just like.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was survival, like we had to have well-trained kids in order to have that many and be able to leave our home.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, there's that, and then sitting in our laps is another training opportunity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, kind of, because there's one thing to engage himself and our boundaries there, and then it's another thing to sit in your lap.
[SPEAKER_01]: and quietly be content.
[SPEAKER_01]: So during reading times, and then I have, today was better than yesterday, I worked on training Lyman.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll just say your name Lyman.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's going to be, he's going to be a 10-year-old kid, and hey, we wouldn't know what holds any of this against you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, everybody goes through this.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's gonna hold it against some 20s 10 now.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's gonna be grateful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gonna be an awesome kid And he is it's it's crazy how much happier he's been today.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has been he's he's usually just upset all day long Just fussy grabbing things wanting things like all day if he's not napping and today he's just been
[SPEAKER_01]: like, I don't know, on a scale of one to ten, like seven out of ten.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just stoked.
[SPEAKER_01]: And terms of just being happy with life, it's just been such a gift.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really hoping for his sick, I want to say consistent for his sick, because I really think he's just going to be able to actually enjoy life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's what's been so convicting as all of our children have been so happy and that has been a comment We've gotten from strangers from family members from friends is like, oh, your kids are always so stoked and of course They have moments of being naughty.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have moments of being tired and sad, but like their general aura has been stoked online and this you know
[SPEAKER_00]: The most recent, our youngest, is the first one that didn't fit that mold, where he was generally upset and generally cranky, and people would say that, you know, in nice terms, you know, or, you know, something that's not nice terms and a set baby, he's a cranky baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's been so convicting, realizing like, okay, this is our doing, this is not his fault.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not like, oh, it's his personality, it's his demeanor, or he's whatever, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, it's like we really let him down and it's taken away from his quality of life, uh, and it's just fun seeing these glimpses of like he wants to be happy, you know, and he is so joyful when he's given boundaries and he's ported because it is love like that is a thing is that we're pouring love into him when we're doing this and they respond and children respond well to love.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and that's the thing is, so after Lyman did his blanket time even this morning, he was looking at one of these books.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's, I don't know how many months is he right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I shall, I'll probably be 18 months here shortly.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, thank you 17 months now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then I, I realize, you know, I never look at a picture book just with Lyman.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was excited about it, so I picked up the book and I put him on my lap because usually I'm trying to read a story to the kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, that would be another training thing where it's like, you can't turn the page, you can't hit the book, you can't get up and down, and so he's just being told no, no, no, all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: without that consistency of discipline following it up and so so fun and we had so much fun him just sitting on my lap and reading a book at his pace, where he's like pointing out what he wants and making his loud noises and turning the pages back and forth and I was just like it was such a bonding time and I think that's something that can happen so easily when you have multiple children as you're thinking okay how do I connect with the older kids how do I
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, the baby for lack of a better term is our baby.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's becoming a toddler.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they just kind of get brought along with whatever you're doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not like it has to be a big deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I set their five or ten minutes with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he was just so, so happy after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, oh man, like, I've wanted to still do stuff like this with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's funny because certain kids will seek you out and certain kids won't.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the child right above him, our fifth born, seeks me out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he gets a ton of quality time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just come up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, can I snuggle you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he sits in my lap like so much of the day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so sometimes it's, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh other children you have to cognitively remember, oh, I need to seek that child out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's easier to do with older kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: because they kind of show you emotionally versus an infant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you mentioned something a while back to like, don't start a training session until you've got until you know, you can follow through with, you know, a time-wise with it and make it a win.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is just such a worthy thing to commit that type of time, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's another thing that's been humbling is that you and I both knew that's why we weren't getting on top of this for a while here, is because we knew we didn't have the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like, hey, priorities.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we did have the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It actually cost us more time down the road.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, what's the same like a stitch-in-time saves nine or something like that?
[SPEAKER_00]: It is very much the case, I think, with child training.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's not even in time, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you aren't able to because ideally you could just start with the boundaries before they have attitude problems or before they've got these patterns developed.
[SPEAKER_00]: But even if it is, it seems like there's something the ground to make up, just addressing it as soon as possible, is it really is a worthy endeavor in the home and be on the same team as a couple so that you're, okay, these are the boundaries we're holding
[SPEAKER_00]: Effective and it's also very rewarding, you know, it is type of thing that can be good for your marriage and good for the other kids Let's do the thing too, is it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: The other children know we've got our youngest's best interest at in mind and they know this is coming from a place of love and it's not like okay this is mom and dad's soul focus for a few days here they're being neglected no they're on board with this because they know what the they know what the purpose of it is sometimes we have to explain it and sometimes we you know we talk it out with our kids other times we don't
[SPEAKER_00]: But, like, clearly, honestly, like, clearing your calendar, if this is what you do for a few days, it's so worth it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, if you have to, even though I say you have to, because you haven't done that, yeah, but like, if you have to miss, you know, math lessons, and if you have to miss music practice, if you have to miss whatever, because you're focusing on child training, it's just a worthy endeavor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, especially if you're trying to do this with multiple children at one time, like if you're whole family, you feel like it's gotten in a slump, or you don't have first time obedience, you know, like with our older five, we have first time obedience.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have good, um, they're just very well-behaved and obedient and it's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this isn't like a whole family overhaul.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of what's required.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, okay, we need to button down the hatches.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone's kind of back docking here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone's a one-on-one.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like the family culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, has gone septic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's happened to us before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And usually, I mean, there are things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I was going to say something a while back and got distracted.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I said that today we had the training time with Lyman happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: during the kids school break.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they were all outside all the big kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the soul focus.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I felt like that way I was just responding, getting back to messages on my phone, and being able to just discipline him, but I wasn't trying to juggle math, I wasn't trying to do other things.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was, I want to recommend this, probably even if you had an iPhone, like I literally have a flip phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, you know, getting back to messages is very a one-dimensional thing for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: But with him being the soul focus, and then the kids not having to feel the stress, because sometimes they can feel the stress of, you know, they love their little brother, and they want to give them what they want to, and so it wasn't just a light should I pacify them.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like he goes up to a sibling and grabs their apple from him and they're like, okay,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you know, or he would go up and eat off their plate.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like hell and color.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, they're okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, in terms of like this demanding and everybody pacifying because they all love their little brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's hard for them to see him not get what he wants either.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that was that can be a big win.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: The kids, what was on their plate, didn't necessarily get cleared this week, but I have cleared some of the things that I would have done during that time, you know, and focused on him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are things that have been taken off.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad you brought up the older kids wanting to be a part of the, you know, pacifying because that is something that is, that's, it's human nature is to like pacify somebody that's causing a disruption or somebody that you care about, it seems like they're uncomfortable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, yeah, that's different.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if somebody's in pain or if somebody, we want to obviously help them and leave you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then that's not what we're talking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking like he's done eating and he's just whining for everybody else's food.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: And because we're like, OK, well, yeah, sure, you can have a piece of my bread, or like you said, he comes over, like you said, he comes over in grabs, like their apple from them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, OK, you can have them just going to get in the middle of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or they're like, well, tour, like literally whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, oh, well, he wants it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He can have it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because they're trying to finish their leg.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, sure, just take this over here, you know, like, so I can finish my Lego.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that is another.
[SPEAKER_00]: thing that happens when you have older children is this another kind of, you know, parent figure in that young person's life that they can then go manipulate and take advantage of and get passifying from.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so those are the main things I think the blanket time, city on mama's lab, practicing, sitting on daddy's lab, just sitting there being content.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I would also say like during this phase, it is just, it's like he's in kind of a baby boot camp phase, so if he wants it and screams for it, he doesn't get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just a reason to train, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like, if you want my electrolyte water, usually I'd be like, okay, sure you can have it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in this case scenario, you know, today he wanted my electrolyte water.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, no, I'll get you some of your own water, but you can't have this water.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just as often as you can say, no, this isn't, of course, how we always went to parent as often as we can say, no, because it's very fun to tell our children, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: but when you've been a yes yes yes yes parent to the child's detriment which I have been it gives ample opportunity all day long to for him to comply with your standard and for you to be consistent and not giving him what he wants.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now obviously
[SPEAKER_01]: that's not a forever thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd like to be able to get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay great.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd like some water shirt, not a big deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the problem is he's been so trained to if I want it, I get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the more that you can amp up the reps of okay, he wants something, he doesn't get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He returns to joy or he moves on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: The quicker that muscle will build in his life or her life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just the more reps you can get in every day while your heads in that game is going to be very, very beneficial.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is just so mind-blowing how much this mirrors adult life, because you talked about returning to joy and
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you tell him, no, no, no, you can't, things that don't, it seems non-consequential.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, why can't we just give him the thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: But there is a blessing in those moments that not that you have to parent this way for forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, most of us, we don't recommend that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We love giving our children good gifts.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Bible talks about wanting to give your children good gifts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a good thing to desire.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we love saying yes to our children.
[SPEAKER_00]: But however, like any time you actually deny your own self or are denied just pleasures, comforts, you actually get to oftentimes experience a deeper level of joy and fulfillment that wouldn't come if you were to just have the treat or have the coffee or have, you know, the extra serving of data or have the meal, you know, like just the spiritual discipline of
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like, I guess, I'm not common in my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm maybe there's people that are listening and they're like, yeah, it's always been a part of my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And good on you, because I think there is a deeper level and of spiritual fulfillment and experience and soul-filling time that can come with the Lord.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you literally are,
[SPEAKER_00]: like choosing to not submit to your flesh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really, no, I'm not going to watch the movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to get out of bed earlier.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, just that, like, oh, my body doesn't want to get out of bed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm tired.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, I don't want to go help that person.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's deeper meaning that can come from life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can start in very, like, seemingly non-consequential things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where it's like, oh, like you said,
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can sure you can get my drink the electrolytes or you cannot and you can teach them to like, oh, I can just have plain water and then they find joy and that's what's crazy is that then there's a deeper level of joy that they experience because they didn't get that like
[SPEAKER_00]: instant gratification and yeah and then I think it makes those gifts that much sweeter too because you're able to enjoy them in their proper place because we are all about enjoying God's gifts and we don't want to live can entire lives of a of a set of system you know I think there's a time and a place for that and for those pursuits but I don't think we're called to live a full life as parents you know and as married couples
[SPEAKER_00]: as a set-ex, right, a set- yeah, it's like there's pleasure and marriage, there's, you know, very rewarding joyous times in parenting.
[SPEAKER_00]: We want our children to experience the joys of God's gifts and his creation, but there are joys and experiences and yeah growth that is so that can happen it's so beyond all of those physical things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're really, they're really are.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think, yeah, I just think of like the beauty that's found in God's Word where it's like, they're spasting and there's feasting and there's like, there's a time for each thing, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a time for mourning, there's a time for joy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's easy to hone in on one of those and seem like this is it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I found it, but each thing teaches us a different thing about God and gets,
[SPEAKER_01]: and we get to delight him in different ways and glorify him in different ways through the different ways that we live.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, it's just as an encouragement, though, if you're finding yourself in a season where you need to do a baby boot camp season, know that sometimes extremes in terms of
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of what you're going to require from a child is not a bad thing to do to really hold a very austere line for them for a week or so and then be able to loosen up and then and it's not like you can't even give your child a good gifts during that time it's just not when they're demanding them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like if they want the brownie, no mama's not going to give you the brownie right now, you know but that doesn't mean that another time during the
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't come to them with a brownie and say, hey, would you like a brownie and love for you to have that?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they get enjoy the brownie, but it was when you offered it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so again, I just think that especially when children are little, they catch on to our consistency.
[SPEAKER_01]: What is cruel is not being consistent 100% of the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's just going to be this Russian relay type of discipline or these boundaries that
[SPEAKER_01]: we found happening because it was like, well, to be honest, we were just pretty consistent with the pacifying thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was like every once in a while, we'd like, okay, we're going to work on training.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to sit still or like we would go to church for the first time in three weeks after traveling and expect the baby to sit there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we hadn't done any training of him sitting for a very long time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it was like, what do you expect this of me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we were surprised that they didn't sit still well, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you are indicating that, I mean, that is a convicting thing is that it really actually is cruel and not kind at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hateful to your child to be inconsistent with those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that this is a common thing in parenting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been guilty of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: like pass-fine pass-fine pass-fine and then blowing up right by blowing up I mean just like you yell or you're like okay fine you know like take this thing or I'm just going to go put you in your bed or something like that you know like go to the corner like that's just like that is kind of like textbook parenting for a lot of people is it's like it's okay they try to keep gentle you know gentle voice and gentle response say yes yes yes and then they lose it and that's like what a unstable place to live as a kid where everything's a guessing game
[SPEAKER_00]: Because of our flesh, it's like even if nine times at a ten, your parents consistent and following through, they're still going to take that risk and they're kind of like, why might get the treat this time?
[SPEAKER_00]: If I keep pushing, pushing, pushing, pushing for it, and it is a strange game of
[SPEAKER_00]: It, yeah, it really is kind of like that whole, yeah, that Russian, really that's kind of a good example, where it's like, well, it's, we'll see.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really, really, it's really, it's really, really bad on that Russian.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those French pronunciations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably Russian, really, yeah, I don't know, Russian, or, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think you'd pronounce the T's.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that consistency is a form of kindness and love and security, which is, you know, our children thrive on and Yeah, and it's humble, you know, and this thing is if you fall in short, which I think most parents have in that area You can repent and you know repent before the Lord You know repent to your spouse repent to the children, you know, especially if they're older children if they are older
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, in years and they get it, you know, then it's a good opportunity to exemplify Remorse for your sin and be grateful for what Christ has done on our behalf and forgiven us of our sins and you know paying the penalty for our sins Because we know we're going to make mistakes as parents
[SPEAKER_00]: And we want our children to know the love of God, the love of a perfect father who doesn't make mistakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, we want to exemplify Christ as best as we can and grow it and how we are able to model Christ to our children and follow in his footsteps.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're going to, when we do fall short, we repent and we tell our children about Jesus about the perfect God man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't happen as much when your child's, you know, a toddler.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it is something that you should do before the Lord and maybe, you know, to your spouse and your older kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I do think this is something that's just very common in big families, in general.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is that you have to revisit the basics over and over as a parent, otherwise things get missed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, our eldest is only nine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, Elijah said, like, we don't have a 19 year old, we haven't been in this for 20 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: to just let the things that made your older children the way they were, or the way they are, or the delight they are, slide, then with the younger half.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just assuming they'll catch up or they'll pick up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is definitely a scaffolding that gets laid in the family with expectations, with
[SPEAKER_01]: Culture with things like that, but it takes this constant or visiting of high dosage back down on the lower levels of the latter in order to keep the culture strong in order to keep the value system strong in order to make sure that virtue and character is still being built and that it's not just happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: The people aren't kind of following along by default, but they're actually being shaped as Christians with those disciplines and things like that because I do think that there's elements of our younger children kind of just following suit with the big kids, but their character isn't necessarily growing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're just doing, they're just kind of copycating.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so just really wanting them to
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well folks, yeah, I mean, that's kind of where we're at and we're honestly really encouraged.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a humbling season, but we're also at the Lord's always so good at bringing us back to the things that, you know, I'm grateful when it brings us back to the things that matter the most and we get to then hone in our life around those things, orient our life around those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, you know, the saying goes and I've said this countless times when you have
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we can all kind of, you know, relate to that when it comes to your physical health, but if there's, you know, a crisis in your marriage, you quickly realize like, oh, actually this is the only thing that matters right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to, like, all of a sudden, my career, you know, my friendships, the whatever, my hobbies, they all pale and comparison to the value of my marriage.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to,
[SPEAKER_00]: Do what I can, you know, to make that healthy again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think same goes with our children, you know, the, I mean, what is Jesus, what does Jesus say?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, a good shepherd like when there's one lost sheep, you know, he'll he'll go after him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm paraphrasing there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we see that with our kids, you know, and I think we experience that with our children, and we're like, actually, this is what I want to commit my life to for the foreseeable future is the well-being of this child.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you want them to be doing well and to have a, you know, a stable life so that you can then go pursue other things, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's more to be, there's a ton of life to be lived.
[SPEAKER_00]: when you have your relationships, the ones that better the most in a good spot.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you do have, you know, you're, you're walk with the Lord in a place where you feel like you're vibrant with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you've got your physical health, but yeah, if you don't have a healthy home-cote culture or your children's hearts or, you know, they, they really are acting up in their character and their attitudes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, well, that is worth stopping everything for on some level.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, anyways, hope this episode is encouraging, and we'll see you next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye-bye.