[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Lorhound's podcast, Your Guides To Be Heading Traders 101.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Alicia, the Witch of Lorrain Hall.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Jean, I've got room for Raina and Sheepie, F. The Vail.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is our breakdown of episode 2 of Season 3 of HBO's House of the Dragon, Queen's Landing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yes, it's good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure that New York City is going to love that you invited a drag.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm excuse me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Excuse me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mamdanistan?
[SPEAKER_01]: Who is this guy?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a proud resident and citizen of Mamdanistan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, please.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's good to know he's pro dragons.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yes, I am Alicia again standing in once more as substitutes for these first two weeks of House of the Dragon Coverage, John, you will be here all season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I will.
[SPEAKER_02]: Join by David next week from next week on and if anyone hasn't yet, you might want to check out the three of us together for the season preview, but yeah, they'll be you and David and I'll be also in some voicemails each week, do some check-ins.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are going to be jumping right into full spoilers for everything that's aired to date in this in the game of thrones, so though we're scurting around a certain game of thrones spoiler that a lot of people will be aware of and for yeah we can talk about a night the seven kingdoms if we want it hasn't come up yet but it might.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we will be saving any book spoilers that have not yet played out on screen for a special section at the very end of the podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: So stick around until after them out, trocredits, if you want to hear that.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are three ways to listen.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can find these episodes on the main L'Orhound's feed where you'll find all of our episodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also a dedicated world of the song of ice and fire feed, just search for how so the dragons
[SPEAKER_02]: season 3 in L'Rhounds and you'll find it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's also the supercast and Patreon, subscriber feeds where you get ad-free access and some bonuses, more on those and everything else going on in the network at the end of the episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: We also want to hear your thoughts about the season.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there will be some feedback discussion at the end of this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you have thoughts of your own as we go, please send them to HOTD at the L'Rhounds.com or use
[SPEAKER_02]: to be included in a future episode, voicemails are encouraged.
[SPEAKER_02]: A hand of the pod, Nancy will gather and organize all of your feedback for future episodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you again, to Nancy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: But let's jump into episode two, Queen's landing.
[SPEAKER_02]: John, what did you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um...
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the opening of that episode was just simply shot amazing, it was, it was hard-breaking and just set the tone, I think, where the tone needed to be for that episode, and really for the season, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just straight off, it was just great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, Renara, wow, just
[SPEAKER_01]: You feel for, I feel for, you know, the grief is palatable.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the things that, you know, she's, she's, the losses are the losses.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is not an easy thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Emma, Darcy, can we get them the words, like, all of the words?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know, Grammi, sure, you know, Tony, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to give a Oscar, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, whatever, yeah, P body, P body to give them all the words.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, just that is amazing actor, amazing to watch the emotion, to watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a hard time, you know, even describing, watching the scene when Jason brought in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it hits so as she sees, ring our receipts, and it's just that that is a powerful scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: couldn't happen to a nice piece of shit.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's a really shapely piece of poo.
[SPEAKER_01]: Damen's face was passing peered into the cell.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like Christmas.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, what a joy, what a absolute joy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for a moment, I didn't think she was going to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then, I was like, yes, yes, you know, like, yes, this is all your fault.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to try to, you know, like, gaslight her in that moment, you know, what would your fault, what would you mean with my father, what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, he would be looking at you, like, did you do?
[SPEAKER_01]: How could you have done the things that you've done to put us in this situation?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, well, this room, he would hate that, that it had come to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there, yeah, he was wrong to suppose that he would blame Reneera.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the last thing that I'll say right now is,
[SPEAKER_01]: the joy and happiness that I felt, seeing the blacks of team black on the beach.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just me, that's the great scene.
[SPEAKER_01]: That the scene, it was just a joyful moment for me to have those characters on screen together and a show like this, because I don't get that often.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not in high fantasy, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I do get it, the rare, rare, rare occasions did I get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I applaud and the 10 year old me who is now E.
[SPEAKER_01]: at some point who watched this, you know, was so overjoyed, seeing those full characters on the beach, and knowing that they're not filler, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They are part of the story, and that just what an immense measure of happiness watching that on screen.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm once again going to urge you to watch interview with the vampire, but anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've already, I've told you, yes, I know you guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Excuse me.
[SPEAKER_01]: This summer, I'm going to do the work, I'm going to do the work.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to do the work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Season one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's only three seasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I'm doing from season one to the end of season three.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yes, I will be Benjian this time.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: As for this episode, I honestly, I was more into this episode than I was episode one, like I liked episode one okay, but this one I really enjoyed all except for one scene that I, but um
[SPEAKER_02]: I was surprised I actually laughed out loud several times in this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not a show that usually makes me laugh a lot, but there's really funny moments, especially Leros and Aegon.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait to see more scenes with them, which is like they look terrible, but they were making me laugh this time.
[SPEAKER_02]: But shall we get into, let's start with that, the heaviest scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are going to be talking plot by plot, not seen by scenes.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be talking about things out of the order that they are.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just FYI, do you want to set us up for a queen mourns?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: The dragon seeds finally arrive to chase the last of the triarchy out of the gullet, and Baylor recovers Jason's body from the water, returning his remains to dragon stone with the deflated delivery of the news.
[SPEAKER_01]: The battle is won.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rhinara, at first in denial that her son is dead, becomes destroyed, going into seclusion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Damon is celebrating his win last week over the Lannisters, Jason and the Lions head on pipes.
[SPEAKER_01]: When he learns that Jason has been killed, he returns to Dragonstone to upgrade off in hue and comfort his wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: He tells Rinaura that a man has finally left King's Landing, convincing her to snap out of her grief and see through the pan to take King's Landing.
[SPEAKER_02]: So first of all, there was just some lovely dragon shots throughout this episode, like they were delivering on the dragon season.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love to how it opened with the dragon seeds, raising the wreckage.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm still bummed, they didn't show up and save the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just because also I think it has story implications, but that was just really cool to see.
[SPEAKER_02]: And also later on in the episode, there's another shot where they're flying to King's Landing to take.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: The silhouettes in the misty wreckage?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow, chef's kiss.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you think about, like, are you, were you surprised the way I was?
[SPEAKER_02]: The bailout seems like pretty chill about Jayce being dead?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I wasn't surprised.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I didn't surprise me at all because I don't know if she was madly in love with Jake.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, anything of that sort.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think she is moved by his dad.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think it's
[SPEAKER_01]: of the same if it were to be, if she was to see her sister's death, I think that would be a much more dramatic and she would be in a worse place than watching J.S.D.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay, that's fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, they did say things like in some interviews where they wanted to emphasize that they were in love.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I never did, as you were, no, not really.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was like she said to Allen, in this episode, we played together since we were children.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's definitely not like, this is the great love of my life.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, this is my cousin.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she was really keeping it together a lot more than obviously them right nearer, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that didn't shock me, that didn't shock me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that whole scene.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you already said it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a lot, but so well done with the, what have you done, Chase?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just, I know this feeling when you are furious with someone and then they die before you can have it out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's just adds this extra complication.
[SPEAKER_01]: This absolutely gut-wrenching.
[SPEAKER_02]: As much as I mad that that was like their last interaction, him locking her in her room, and I still don't think that's the right way was done.
[SPEAKER_02]: They really did pay it off in this confrontation, you know, just that, that heart-wrenching feeling.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she has a slime, something like two sons died, so I could sit and chair of swords.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you were her and so are Laurence was like here's the sword kill me, how would you handle it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have killed him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's why she would make a better ruler in that moment than I would have because she recognized that
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, everybody in the room could have been beheaded quite honestly, but she's going to need them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a shame she's got it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was just saying it's a sharp contrast with someone like Amin, who we see really like itch into kill.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But she recognizes that she is going to need them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the future, she's going to rule this kingdom the way that she wants to.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but me, yes, straight ahead.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I wouldn't, yeah, I'm probably the last one out of, like, you, you're one in the scale with the other renars in the middle in terms of, like, everything void be heading, but how do you trust that money again after that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It takes a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then later she says he can choose the manner of his own death.
[SPEAKER_02]: So putting your pin in that one coming back
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, yeah, he's probably going to want to do something heroic, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, hopefully, you know, it won't bring Jay's back.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I won't.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, for the name of his family for his house.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, just, yeah, for, or maybe just for, however, you know, facing his last moments feeling good about himself, perhaps.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe he'll go to the blog.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, to be honest, like the wall doesn't never sounds that bad to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the first provocation.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd be like, yes, or I'll go.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if they had women, of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: What did you think, uh, did you want to be a Damon's party?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that like does that look like a vibe that you would enjoy?
[SPEAKER_01]: for like five minutes, and then it'll be a bit much, it will be a bit much after about five minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, those those those guys look like they yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I mean, but they've got that strong wine right from the Harry Hall nearby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't want to be around those guys when they got the strong wine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's the whole point, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Anything's like, well, that happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to lie like as someone who regularly goes to festivals.
[SPEAKER_02]: And with like folk music and things like that, it was kind of my vibe.
[SPEAKER_02]: But a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was kind of heart-wrenching, especially my rewatch to realize the last thing Simon Strong did before a man stabbed him in the gut was to deliver wine and a message of ill tidings to Damon and the Mill of his party.
[SPEAKER_02]: Simon Strong, I like Tim, but I do know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were so strong in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also not so strong.
[SPEAKER_02]: The poor lions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do they keep playing all the lion heads?
[SPEAKER_02]: I know they did good work on them, but Yeah, but still.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not mad at the lions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go ahead.
[SPEAKER_02]: Put the lannisters up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Always can put the lannisters up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also just wanted to shout out because we didn't last week that Allison Blackwood is there.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the woman with like this sort of demon mode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I make up on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... aka black alley and she's she I mean she's a a favorite for a lot of book readers just because she she's a woman on the kill to get ahead career path yes and so she's an archer specifically and uh... horse you know go to horses and things like that and and she in the book she she's described doing some pretty badass stuff but for specifically
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and the battle of burning milk, like these battles we just keep seeing it cut to the end.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, and Black Alley was there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, okay, but just know she is pretty badass.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that they're like focusing on her and they gave her a line in the song and stuff, I think that might mean that we'll see more of this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be awesome, that would be awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: because they got rid of one badass woman, you know, last week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So give us another sort swinging building that ass woman.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm, yeah, I love her.
[SPEAKER_02]: What did you, speaking of badass women, what did you think of the final Alice Damon chat where we learned that Alice once her and Hall, because she's lived there her whole long life, emphasis on long, there's always rumors about how old she really is.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Damon calls her a midwife.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was so low.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's Damon, the guy is not nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: No matter how much you want to, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: He's Dr. Who?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not, he's not, Dr. His words cut as deeply as his sword, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: He is quick of wit and a servant of tongue.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but to be fair, so is Alice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so that was, she gives us good as she gets it for sure, but in that moment, that was just like, no, like yeah, what do you think you are?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like really, you know, put in trying to put her in her place, so to speak.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and she rightfully points out, she's like, you have 40,000 rivermen because of me, which is because she probably poisoned Grandpa Grover Tully, so that, you know, young Tully would be more meaningful.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I mean, I get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like, she doesn't want some other reward.
[SPEAKER_02]: She says rubies will not satisfy her hunger.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, she wants something more basic.
[SPEAKER_02]: She wants her home, not just, and that's why it's not just like we can give you another house.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, no, this is always by my house.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone else is passing through.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, the permanent resident, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then she reminds him at the end.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember, I told you about dying in the gods.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't come back.
[SPEAKER_02]: If we see them together again, that might be linked to Damon's death, or maybe they will never see each other again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you, I don't know, what have you thought about this, can we call it a friendship?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think these are two people who recognize
[SPEAKER_01]: the utility of being friends, but that's not friendship.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have an alliance with friendship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe an alliance, a tenuous one.
[SPEAKER_01]: For now, the alliance and the last, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, what did you think about how Damon handled the dragon seeds when he got back to Dragonstone?
[SPEAKER_01]: He just sending himself home.
[SPEAKER_01]: are you can't treat people that way, especially when they have dragons, you know, they have dragons, they're not your, you know, close can.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, turn fair, all who does suck, but all if all is right about who his father is, that would make him dangerous.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would have rather, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I, yeah, but they're not
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I get the blood lineage, but I still don't see them as Ken, close Ken, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think Damon is missing an opportunity to really solidify and format those relationships.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just can't, you can't treat people in the way that he treats people and not
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did I say they have dragons?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, but that is the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: In that way, it does make them a sort of forced family where, you know, you might have a close family member that's not your favorite, but you have to spend holidays together because you're, because you're in the same dragon family.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, but, you know, walk up to them and slap them in the face.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I mean, that was the other time they left.
[SPEAKER_02]: I laughed out loud when he slept in the face.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was so deserved, but it's not going to go down well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was deserved.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not saying it wasn't deserved.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get it, but you don't go around doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then the mix on me, you just just, you know, poking them in the forehead.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't you think, uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you got a dragon?
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a dragon.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it is like, oh, do you really want to go down this road?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, do you really want to go down this road?
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: But did you agree with Damon that, like, that they were, I don't know, he was like, what are you doing here?
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, my prince, we are just returned from Heron Hall and all types up.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the goal is, I can say shout up there for 10 seconds, and then you waited two days only before resigning your mission and all pops up again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Adam left too, I think real snitch energy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: do you think like should they have stayed when Alice kind of shoot them off and like all psyched basically like the the woods were spooky now I get what they left but I also get what they men is saying is like you know you had a mission and you should have waited the mission out until we call for you um that and that's the if he and again to me if they men can recognize that they are not that disciplined
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to treat them in a different way to me like this is not this is Yeah, you just have to treat them differently You're ready you're you already not counting on them Treating them in this manner When they've been treated in that matter their entire lives It's not it's not smart.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not smart
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, he's not being like this to Hugo because Hugo's much easier to be around.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he, at the very least, he's not in pressing Hugo.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would imagine.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that's not him.
[SPEAKER_02]: But all of his obviously, the loose can and then he needs to worry about.
[SPEAKER_01]: With a dragon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I keep coming back to.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like they have dragons.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not regular soldiers.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you kind of want to keep them on your side.
[SPEAKER_01]: You kind of want to keep them and you don't feel in good about what they're doing with and for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that is the hubris that that David has is so clear to me in those scenes with Alphan and you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, on the one hand, Damon has a point because like, Aiman did show up right after they left basically, but on the other hand, as soon as Hugh said to Damon that a witch told us about the battle going on, that that's when Damon backed off for the time being because he's like, he knows he's like, oh, Alice did this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's kind of
[SPEAKER_02]: would about Damon's confrontation with Massaria.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like they've had such a long complicated relationship.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were like, he pretended she was pregnant and they were engaged to try to take another dragon egg at one point and then had her in jail at another point, which he brought up this time.
[SPEAKER_02]: What an up and down relationship they've been on.
[SPEAKER_02]: What did you think about their confrontation?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because even in the scene, when they, their first talking outside of right now is room and they're going to give in to each other, then they sit down next to each other, it's a way patiently, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that moment it's just like, okay, I don't like you, you don't like me, but I kind of like you, I kind of like you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of respect you, I kind of respect you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we both want to be here in this moment for these next steps.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think recognizing that was really important for them going forward.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was what's notable that, you know, he was being kind of a jerk and it was prickly between them, but then she still did sit down to counsel him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he was like kind of kneeling her.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess he knows there's some vibes between her and her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Renew her because she's he's like, oh, are you jealous of her bond with Alice?
[SPEAKER_02]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: It was always the time for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always, there's never not the time for name in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's always the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is always the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has no chill.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, that's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think Targaryen or Bourne would chill, except for Helena, poor Helena.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, gosh.
[SPEAKER_02]: She just wants chicken, so we'll talk about her anyway.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Renera wants Damon to find out who sheep stealers writer is,
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, obviously he's going to find out it's his daughter.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just, oh, I'm cringing already for like, how this is going to go down with Reneira.
[SPEAKER_01]: I already know, this is not, I don't, I don't think that he's going to tell her.
[SPEAKER_01]: You already, I mean, can we talk about it now, do we talk about later?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, we'll talk about it in books.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, I don't think he's going to tell Reneira.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's going to tell Reneira.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think he, you know, he's saying here like, oh, nobody could be writing sheep's dealer while dragons can't be tamed, which is just obviously there's never discussion about this in the discord, but definitely fall on the side of like people think that things can't be done until they are.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think he's going to be impressed with Reina, once he went away, he's not going to tell.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I mean his daughter and he's going to be like, yeah,
[SPEAKER_02]: But then, ooh, oopsies about the clawing and chasister and kind of chasing Jason to a precarious physician.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was so nice to see Damon supporting Reneera throughout this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was the intimate moment in bed where they're like talking hyvelirian, like in the good old days.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's because they're, uh, on the knees?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, okay, but like in medieval times,
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really, really, I didn't do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still there, but it's still there.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, you know, he, Damon shows these, these facets of his personality, that you want to gravitate towards him, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But he is so not good.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is so not good, and I think that's the, that's my key, take away of these first of these two seasons and three seasons and two episodes, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: He is someone that I'll be like, y'all, I could chill with him, but again, but for how long?
[SPEAKER_01]: But if he's down for you, Damon's gonna go, he's gonna be the first one, yeah, he's gonna be the first one swinging.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something's going down.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you and five people are somewhere, and something jumps off, but you and Damon is there with you, he's not waiting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ma'am.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not, he is going to go down swinging for the people that he cares about, period.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's so not a good person.
[SPEAKER_02]: but it is it does seem that he's a convert now that he's seen the visions of what the song of ice and fire is really about and so now he's really like okay the best way to make that happen is to support my wife right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a faction there, but I think his affection is somewhat capricious.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't I think he really cares for her, and like you said it was a fashion pair, and that's truly absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: But he's, you know, he can care for people a little over here, and then get distracted, and care for someone else a little over there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was again nice to see like with the two advisors like who are always giving Reneera a hard time like and he just snaps at them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I heard no ambiguity in the Queen's statement Lord Bartimos did you like yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: He has a back has a back and he's going to let everyone knows that he has her back.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's not going to be silent about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he's going to be very forward and he's going to be very visible about how he supports Renar.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Ms.
[SPEAKER_02]: Aria Hens for any of her father's crown and says, I hope you send for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember which one of us has been faithful.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that fair?
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: the both kind of snakes, actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just a little bit more than either of those other two to bring it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that hurts, that hurts her cause more by saying that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you think, because Renea was like, well, she certainly didn't respond.
[SPEAKER_02]: She was like, my husband just had my back a second ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was not the moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: great moment of need.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you like right here next to me, so watch what you're saying, really.
[SPEAKER_02]: Alright, let's take a quick pause here when we come back.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to check in on some of the side stories this week starting with that moment on the beach you brought up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Be right back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, Ty Glorz, Coralis found Baylor returns to the gullet with Adam, where she finds his brother, Alan also looking for his father, Coralis.
[SPEAKER_01]: After Baila acknowledges that Coralis has been a shit father to Alan and his brother, citing his guilt towards their grandmother, Reynis.
[SPEAKER_01]: The trio finally find Coralis whilst up on the shore.
[SPEAKER_01]: A life, he expresses his appreciation to Alan for taking out his attacker and says he now has nothing to pass on to him and his brother, but his name.
[SPEAKER_02]: So why did you I mean other than other than the black you talked about the rarity of getting to see this.
[SPEAKER_02]: What did you like about this scene?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh man, just I think it's a healing moment for Alan especially, you know, who's been trying to make sense of of who his father is.
[SPEAKER_01]: and what his father is to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think in this moment with his brother, with Baylor there as well, was like healing for Alan.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I really like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And watching, you know, high-tight burn and call us looking at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that moment, you know, again, when we talked about the first episode when he completely froze on the ship and Alan saw the vulnerability in him in that moment, here he is again being vulnerable, right, saying, you know, I have nothing, I don't have anything, but the one thing I have is something that I should have given to you a very long time ago, right,
[SPEAKER_01]: in that moment was just, I, for me, I just appreciated it, because I don't like Coralis and how he treats his children, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he's been a particularly good father, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Certainly not, to Ellen and Adam, to Lane or he was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I mean, but it's like in situations like this in a way you should be measured by your worst.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're treating one kid badly then.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how I feel.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then with when Baylor tells Alan, the reason he treated them this way was because of his
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, feeling, his immense love for her grandmother was equally troubling.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it can't be you treat your children in the way that he treated his children and then were like the only reason he did that was because he really wanted to make things right with his wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: that's not cool and then the reason he reached out to them right and and that's not that's not cool and I think Rainy's deserves better than that right she was not the impediment to him being a good father his guilt was not them his guilt and his remorse and trying to make things right with her was not the impediment to him being a good father
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think in that scene on the beach, there's a healing that goes on within with those four characters.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was a great bonding moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought that there was
[SPEAKER_02]: good chemistry between Bala and Alan, which I'm glad to see for no particular reason, I'm sorry, that the one thing I was a bit disappointed about
[SPEAKER_02]: was there's been a lot of hype where there's this, there's a really memorable line after this bottle that Carla said, if this be victory, I hope I never see another.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think like all the fans online, all the book fans have been like holding our breath.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, oh, it's going to be and then it was just kind of like a shrugged off line.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, what was that?
[SPEAKER_02]: I was hit so much harder by, you know, Reneera's comments about, you know, the throne of swords and Jace, how could you all that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or even just like the battle is one hit harder than this iconic line.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, I don't know, that was an interesting direction choice.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also think, again, I'll stop harping on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that if the dragon seeds had actually been there to save the day and the battle of the goal it, it would have hit harder to have the father in both sons who saved him together saying, I'm going to find a way to give you my name.
[SPEAKER_02]: But of course, Coralis,
[SPEAKER_02]: He can't just give them his name because they're considered quote-unquote bastards, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So he may want to rethink that whole thing where Reneera was like, become my hand.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, to bring legitimacy to his children, which is not something that he shouldn't do at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's also, yeah, well, he can't hang out at his house anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you going to do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Move to King's Landing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I know ships.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have no crib.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, what are we going to do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, on the plus side, she'd be for president of the bail.
[SPEAKER_02]: Back in the bail, Raina tells Jane Erin, she made a terrible mistake that got Jace killed and she can't go home.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Jane says, well, you can't stay here.
[SPEAKER_02]: But when Raina reminds her, she wanted a dragon guardian, Jane admits that a dragon could make his home wherever he wanted.
[SPEAKER_02]: But emphasizes that Raina's not welcome at the eerie castle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't let the door hit you with a good law split you understand, James, I do, it still makes, you know, the veil, some of the worst people that we have in this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you think, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're kicking people out the moon roof.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're very isolationist.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're doing a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, doing a lot of things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't rock with.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not the kindest of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not the warmest folk.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The most welcoming guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, why she said, and is doing and is shunning rain?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I agree with it?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, not necessarily.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, you are, I don't, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, maybe I have a soft spot, but when someone shows up at your doorstep like that,
[SPEAKER_01]: And your first instinct is to get the fuck out, you know, someone that you know, that doesn't sit well with me, it doesn't sit well with me, because she could have been hidden, she could cut her hair, dye her hair, a lot of things could have been hidden, she could have suggested so many different things, instead of just get the fuck out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I guess there was always tension between us who of them when Reina was staying there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there was, there was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is a shame because, I don't know, I do like the book version better in that case.
[SPEAKER_02]: But anyway, but in this version, look how she be was just waiting for Reina, like that is his girl now.
[SPEAKER_02]: They found it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're like, oh, do I have to, you know, do I gotta fire these balls on all night?
[SPEAKER_01]: Just make it, just let me know.
[SPEAKER_01]: May I be there?
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything, and I will start spitting fire.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you don't got to say, middle of that for their mission.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just, you know, you give me a, you know, then I got you, you got me with a, I don't want to have to flambay nobody, but if I got to, I will.
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's like, eat them after.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sheepie was just chilling and waiting in the back like, yo, you're better not try to put hands on her because if you I do, it's going to be issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be an issue, love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We absolutely love that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do with this whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll talk about this more in the book spoiler section, but it does feel like we're going 100% nettle story from here.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's my read on this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love what that means.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, do you want to set us up for what I think it's the fun he has seen?
[SPEAKER_01]: A surprising escape.
[SPEAKER_01]: Larissa and Aegon bickled on the road, tucked into the interior of a raven carrier wagon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Aegon is upset at Larissa for putting them in this predicament, while Larissa emphasizes that he saved their lives after Aegon's petulence almost got them killed.
[SPEAKER_01]: As they argued, the wagon is attacked by the triarchy soldiers from Tyrosh, both the captors and the takers take each other out, Aegon finishing the job himself, leaving the pair free to leave.
[SPEAKER_01]: Aegon announces he doesn't want to go to Essos as planned, but rather to Rooks rest, where his injured dragon was last seen now guarded by a battalion of Christian's
[SPEAKER_01]: despite lyruses and systems that will be moving through enemy control territory at great risk to them both.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean I said like this was a funny scene I laughed twice what the first one was you seem to be in less pain no I'm not you have been asked for any milk of the puppy this because I'm not fucking speaking to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like to you know children
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and the other was when Larissa when they're like, oh, it's going on outside and Larissa's like, I wouldn't be surprised if there were he opens the door and there's like a tyroshi man with a blue beard and he's like, I was mistaken.
[SPEAKER_02]: I surprised.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, and just to shout out the tyroshy blue beard, like, I feel like they're always making up for the fact that they kept watering down Xario, Naharis's Look in both, both actors who played it in Game of Thrones, and to now they're like, you want some tyroshy blue beard's here, here's another That is a great exchange I didn't expect though that that whole house, Stanton plot line would be over so quickly, it was like,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we need that bit last episode necessarily, but not necessarily, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't need that for this to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: This could have happened anyway, without a house starting, you know, there was, unless there's some payoff that we're not seeing yet, but on, no, yeah, I didn't express.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't need that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you also enjoy this scene?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's, he's, like he's so, I said, it could be for, which one, really?
[SPEAKER_01]: Both of them are pretty accurate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're both.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're both.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, first I thought he was going to stab that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I thought he was going to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are my poking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, when he took the arrow, broke it and went back in, I'm like, oh, he's gonna poke him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he didn't poke him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, okay, we gotta get out of here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he just drops on the guy and just, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh
[SPEAKER_01]: Full Gremlin mode, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Full, like you said, Gremlin mode.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's still like, oh, I'm gonna have to kill somebody and I have to kill you now, you know, you're like, oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wasn't expecting that because I really thought he was gonna turn on Larras at that moment and it was nice to see that he did it because we got to continue to have her dead journeys.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we check it on Heron Hall.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's still it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Aaron Hall revisited.
[SPEAKER_01]: Amen takes Aaron Hall with the help of one giant as fire breathing dragon.
[SPEAKER_01]: He challenges Sir Simon Strong to a duel and when the old man suggests perhaps they talk and said he just kills him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He makes quick work of the two strong grandsons as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But not before a one gets in a grievous womb to his side.
[SPEAKER_01]: He collapses at the feet of the castle, which at his,
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was cool to see a man do his thing, but it was also like, the whole army's been waiting around.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're like, oh, there goes a dragon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's go to her and home.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it's like, nah, Vagarin, I got it.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for showing, I mean, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess this weeping behind him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know, they can't film all of the endless battles of this war, but I just thought that was kind of funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's with, what's with, you know, that desperately cold every time he sees a dragon, his face is like, oh my God, it's a dragon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, man, you've seen enough dragons now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Get up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, stop with this awesucks, look on his face.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the dragon, the dragon, that guy, it's like a little bit of a cold.
[SPEAKER_02]: Huh?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it, if it's that close to you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Can we just get rid of cold?
[SPEAKER_02]: Your wish may be granted.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a very deadly show.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe that's what it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to get rid of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't stand his face.
[SPEAKER_01]: At least I can't, it's his face.
[SPEAKER_01]: Into my sin.
[SPEAKER_01]: I see him with anger.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's, it's not rational.
[SPEAKER_01]: I recognize that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I told you last week I'm trying to be better.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to be a better person when I'm watching these shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this one face that I see on my screen.
[SPEAKER_02]: So just know, uh, if and when a Christian call goes down, John will be thrown a party.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we celebrate.
[SPEAKER_01]: We celebrate.
[SPEAKER_01]: We, we out of, we outside.
[SPEAKER_01]: We, we, we, we are outside where a Christian call gets it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, a lot of mercy.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you taught that
[SPEAKER_02]: But what do you thought about Aemon after this whole sequence of events?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh no, he really wants to be David.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't mean he looks so much like him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He really wants to be David.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wants to be David's son.
[SPEAKER_02]: But Damon doesn't have that sweet, I rock, so you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was bad as I, I would admit it, I would admit it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That did look, that did look quite fetching.
[SPEAKER_01]: But no, he, he wants to be Damon son so badly.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's all he wants in life.
[SPEAKER_01]: The approval of Damon.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's, oh, no, it just realized how frickin' edible it is that he wants, like, he is mommy issues of, as we've established.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I see, I see.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he wants to kill Damon, who is in some way, you're saying he wants season as a father figure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: All on edifice.
[SPEAKER_01]: All on edifice.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you're, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: How are we going to see that come together in some district?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've been setting that up for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I mean, is that the end of how strong?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, data weakest link.
[SPEAKER_01]: They got to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what, what else is that to say?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like the opposite of what it was that they said about when they're figuring out that the Baratheon kids were actually double-lanister kids and like the seed is strong because Yeah, that may be because Baratheon kids always have the dark hair.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is how strong seed is weak
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they, they, they, they, yeah, oh, I don't mean to all the poor little boys.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were nice as they were, but they, they, they, I think they'd done.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, they are.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now the next target for David and the dragon seeds after taking King's Landing is to go back and deal with Heirinhaul.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're setting that up for probably next episode, something along those lines, maybe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to, yeah, show we make way for the Queen?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Allison works to honor her promise to Rinaura to open the gates of King's Landing to her.
[SPEAKER_01]: She warns Commander, the Commander of the City Watch Luther larger, that Rinaura is coming when Master of Laws Jasper Wild learns, can we take a minute?
[SPEAKER_01]: Jasper Wilds.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a nice name.
[SPEAKER_02]: for a nice person?
[SPEAKER_01]: For a terrible person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, learns of this betrayal of teen green.
[SPEAKER_01]: He tries to use it as an excuse to rape Alessan, but it's stopped by Orwell, who arrest him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Still determined, Alessan drags Helena.
[SPEAKER_01]: The official ruling monot that death, both of her brothers are away, to confront the captain of the houseguard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Certainly, sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Telling them to stand out and let the dragons land.
[SPEAKER_01]: When Allison, Helena, and her daughter, Jahirat, on try to slip out of the city once the dragon is arrived, they're spotted in the crowd and turned over to Reina, our soldier.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, I mean, I do like that they added this thing with Alicent and Manura meeting the season and offering this deal and it explains why it's so relatively easy for Manura and Damon to take the city.
[SPEAKER_02]: Although, on the other hand, it's like they have by far the most dragons as we established in the last episodes, but that would probably do it too pretty well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do like that aspect, we see how you feeling about Alison.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've talked a lot about Alison, and as a complicated person, a lot is happening with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's really more the star of this episode than Reneera in some ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or do you think it's 50-50?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think Reneera is...
[SPEAKER_01]: evokes such feeling in this part of the story that it's overwhelming.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Alison, on screen, and what she's trying to accomplish shows just how massive of a politician she can be.
[SPEAKER_01]: We see the raw emotion and we see the tactical thinking from each one of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean we see that she has to the way that she has to insert herself into male spaces like they show that with her having to walk into that bath house still look for large-scale, which I've been somewhat was pointing it out on the discord and I've run thinking of this since.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a captain of the gold cloaks and his last name is large-scale, which is
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: French for them for money.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's down there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's how I remember his name now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you to that person.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't remember who it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in a way, yeah, when she issues to go in with to the bathhouse scene, we get some obligatory HBO willys fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I ever was reminding me of when female sportscasters have to go into locker rooms that's sort of energy, where it's like,
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to make you uncomfortable and you just have to really kind of exert your power in that moment, like I'm not going to let you intimidate me, I'm here for a reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then, like, yeah, I go in such a roller coaster of emotions of how I feel about Alison, because
[SPEAKER_02]: I was really getting it.
[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, she was manipulating her daughter.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, Helena, you told me not many days ago that you were happier before you were queen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Words that pierced me like a spear.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think now, not of what you may deserve, but what might make you happy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the only fully real part of that is the last line.
[SPEAKER_02]: She says, you, I might yet redeem, which is dare on a racer.
[SPEAKER_02]: But fine, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not that I don't think she wants her daughter to be happy.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think that that is in any way in the top 10 of her motivations right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, hello.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I think right now, she just wants to ensure
[SPEAKER_01]: her daughter, grandchild, that they all safe.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the last grandchild.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all she cares about right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: She just wants to make sure that she gets them to safety.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, she understands that they're in a very, you know, um, it's a serious situation where they can really lose their lives.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she doesn't want to count on Reinaura's friendship love to stop that from happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she's trying to make sure that she can keep everyone that she can alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, in that moment, you see that some other who is doing saying and really manipulating her child,
[SPEAKER_01]: But in her mind, she's like, I have to do these things in order to make sure that you're safe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because she's not even thinking about the tone at this point, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: She's not thinking about the Kingdom, she's not thinking about ruling.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that moment, she's only thinking about getting them to safety.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's always maddening, of course, as a viewer, and it's intentionally so that Helena's always saying weird stuff in her entire family discounts, or even though every single time she's making her prediction to your doom, listen to her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this time she's like, oh, it's weird.
[SPEAKER_02]: This bug is out of season.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, that's great, bug girl, let's go.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't even know what it means.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a page open to a month from now, which is where Misa and I from Game of Thrones is from,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm curious if that is another prediction that's going to pay out or with the point that it's an out of season, something is out of season, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: But in general, Helena's definitely, she was channeling the interrelations.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, I think I might like to keep chicken, some like, check, I will not have any beast harmed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Check, check, her son's were always kind.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I know, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But honestly, like, I think,
[SPEAKER_02]: I would, this is the sort of leader that the world needs is somebody who cares about things, has long-term visions of the future if they are somewhat literal.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not either manipulating everyone, gaslighting them, or threatening them waving a sword at them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is real queen behavior to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: She said it very determinedly, I will not have any beast harmed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I?
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, but people, everyone's going to tell me like, no, you can't be nice and rule.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, I challenge, I challenge to show this or any other show, but especially I think it would be the biggest challenge for this show.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know it's not in the books, but to just prove that you can be nice and rule.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I have, there are some tygarians that aren't as bad as others, but
[SPEAKER_02]: It's mostly a show about her.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's mostly doing hard things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what the entire story is mostly about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, people are in this world the week, the nice, they don't get far.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if they do get far, there's always like this doom that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: right around the corner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: You never get the sense that they are safe.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You always get the sense that, you know, someone like Helena is always in danger, always.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's never gonna have her chickens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she's not.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I guess the only thing I the one scene that I really dislike the episode is I don't understand when they added that random sexual assault scene, yeah, that was weird.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was so hamfisted and like what purpose is this serving like I guess just to like make us hate this character of four dayman kills him, but just remind us of what a dick he's been this whole time without.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just the tropeyest handling of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyone who also listens to our vampire, the start coverage in episode three, I gave a long talk about why I thought that the representation of sexual assault was so special.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said that it rejected the good victim who fights back appropriately, trope.
[SPEAKER_02]: and this was exactly that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, oh, you know, she fights back until she's saved by a man.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, and it's after, I mean, what's up with Sir Rickard?
[SPEAKER_02]: So her guard, like, this is, he's like, oh, you can't go wandering around by yourself because it's dangerous.
[SPEAKER_02]: You should be near me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then he told
[SPEAKER_02]: Lord Jasper, I'm like, why would Lutheran tell Lord Jasper anything?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm confused about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know, I don't, I mean, I think it's maybe in the same reason that that Lauren, you know, listen to what Jay said to say, you know, instead of following the orders of his queen.
[SPEAKER_02]: We just trust any man over them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because she's doing, you know, now that, you know, neither of her sons are here.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have to, you know, stop this, just get out of control.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I know this is not a nice guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was so out of nowhere, yeah, Jasper.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was so out of nowhere, but it was like, it was realistic the way he taunted her about Circristin, that he's very men do say stuff like that a lot like, oh, you slept with so.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, and you weren't married to him.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that means I'm also entitled, that's very real.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it was also, yeah, the whole thing,
[SPEAKER_02]: This these stages in the way this is the most common stage and we had so many conversations about this with the end or so I promised not to believe I'd go to the point Beyond this But it was this is the reason why people tell women in real life that they let themselves be raped because they must not have fought hard enough because this is how it keeps being modeled on television
[SPEAKER_02]: when in reality this is not when you actually goes down usually it's someone close to you who takes advantage of something and it's very confusing and complex and um yeah and and knows or said in different ways and it's not the same thing over and over and I'll stop now it's just overdone and the show is obviously especially guilty of it couldn't agree more
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, she says, I mean, your debt grandmaster, I think in part because people wouldn't have believed her, but obviously he stopped it from happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: Seems to be like an IOU, perhaps she has for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: How are you feeling about maester or while in general, right now with all of his flip-flopping?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, he's trying to stay alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that makes the strategy a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the, you know, that, and that's the thing with this world is that people will do almost anything just to try to stay alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll say almost anything, just to try to stay alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is what we get.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're seeing that play I would or the, you know, he's just, where do I have to stand in order not to die?
[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, because, you know, realistically,
[SPEAKER_01]: what's he going to do?
[SPEAKER_01]: What house are you going to turn to?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have nothing really.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're really there at the whim and I know that make sure it's on important there to keep knowledge and all that stuff, but you're there at the whim of the ruling class.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he knows that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And any slight can be turned against him and his life lost.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's trying to position himself always to be where he needs to be in order for that not to happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, I mean, I do also think I think he comes across as a good person in, I think he's always trying to whatever position he may be not like the strongest backbone of person per se all the time although he showed strength in the scene obviously, but he is always trying to help whoever is in front of him like, you know, with Aegon, he's like he genuinely wanted to help him heal with Allison, he genuinely wants to help.
[SPEAKER_02]: her protector, and I think that he'll show the same courtesy to team black as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think about that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll say he's one of the maesters that cited and fire and blood for this part of the story, so it's kind of fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's in it as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And just this has been pointed out a lot online, but just pointed out here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Allison, when she flees, she's wearing blue again.
[SPEAKER_02]: So blue was what she used to wear.
[SPEAKER_02]: When she was friends with Reneera and you know, before she went all green, wearing green, and now it's like she, whenever we see her sort of dipping back into old Allison, we see her in blue.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, but then things happen, let's take a quick break here and when we come back we're going to talk about how this all winds up this episode and check in with some community thoughts.
[SPEAKER_02]: Taking the throne, now that Allison has cleared the way Damon makes quick work of the guards who stand against he and Reneera at King's Landing.
[SPEAKER_02]: The gold cloaks led by L'Argel quickly take the side of their former commander, further supporting Reneera taking the now empty throne.
[SPEAKER_02]: But she's disappointed to learn, Aegon is not there for her to take his head, leading her to feel she hasn't earned the Iron Throne yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is, until Damon goes to free team black allies from the dungeon and discovers that Laris left a gift, his longtime enemy Otto Heitauer, a tearful vernera beheads him with dark sister on her second attempt, and Damon quickly removes a full-endering rapist Lord Jasper's head from his shoulders as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, Reniro will accept the throne, ascending with blood soaked footsteps to perch, uncomfortably in its prickly embrace.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just then, the captured Allison and Helena are ushered into the throne room.
[SPEAKER_02]: Seeing her father's headless corpse on the floor, Allison looks at Reniro with his sting of betrayal in her eyes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, is that official end of the friendship?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, no, I don't think so, because I can't see how Allison can be mad.
[SPEAKER_01]: She could be sad, I can't see how she could be mad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think we discussed about A-Mun last week and our different sides there, but I think that the only head she offered up in the deal was A-Gun.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she didn't really think about, oh, obviously, she didn't know her father was in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think for God, we got that glimpse in the season to finale of Auto High Tower Locked Up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she can't be mad, like, and can't be unexpected.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's unexpected in the moment because she wasn't, you know, she wasn't aware that he was captured.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, but, you know, as they move forward, she got to be upset with Reyna and her for doing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I mean, why can't she be, it's her father.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I know he was, because she knows a father was a douche.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, her father sucked, but it was still her lifelong companion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I think she knows her father, the way she treats her kids is her her father treats her.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would not say that Allison isn't smart enough to recognize those things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, but I think it, um, that it's still, it doesn't matter if she's mad at her father.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't mean that Reneer has the right to kill him in the context of, oh, and maybe their lives, yes, if they hadn't brought her in just then, if she just found it out about it afterwards and didn't like see his head attached on the floor that might have been different, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the immediacy of it is shocking, but you know, it's time goes on.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't see her as staying upset that out of high tile got his head chopped off as being one of the main conspirators of the plot.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do like, so I thought it was very appropriate that they use dark sister, which was egg on the conquerors, sister wives, vicenia sword, and the demon uses, and this is also a historical figure that Reneer looked up to, so I just thought it was very appropriate that she uses this one of the two classic Targaryen swords, which the other one is in Amin's hand, we saw last week.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also thought it was, it made sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't know why Reneira given that she was named the heir for most of her life, why she wasn't given more stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, she fans, she did not handle those the swords well.
[SPEAKER_02]: But granted that, it made sense at her first attempt was a miss.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Nate was saying on the discord that actually it makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wouldn't go that deep because of the leather on his back and she's not swinging it that hard, basically.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I thought that that all made sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, went down.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't like how they made her kind of sniveling in that situation.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can understand like a painter certain way
[SPEAKER_02]: be tapping into, how do you think the public who is in that room sees Reneera after this?
[SPEAKER_00]: As queen?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you think you didn't think that she came across as a bit, I don't want to say weak, but No, we because she did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would have been different if Damon took the sword from her hand.
[SPEAKER_01]: from her hands and did it, but that's not what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: She steal herself and she did it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And fun of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: But not like, sometimes it's better to appoint someone to do something well rather than to do something clumsy.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I think in that moment, go ahead, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I can cast out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think in that moment, she had to be the one to do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK.
[SPEAKER_01]: It had to be right now to do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I would say I was thinking like, Renees, Renees, the queen.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: It should have been just put her on the throne after Jay Harris stopped his sexist bullshit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Forget this whole war.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just have instead of dance of the dragons.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's make the dance of the dragons like a literal rave.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's make her hate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not a war.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kingdom would have been so much better.
[SPEAKER_02]: would you watch for seasons of party of the dragons?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's dragons, so yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is going to be some dragon drama.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, definitely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Definitely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, it was nice to see when uh, when the Greens took Kings Landing, there was these two people who stood up against them and said we will not swear against our Queen, you know, our Queen is Queen still, our Lord Mary weather and Lady Fel.
[SPEAKER_02]: In the books, their heads were put on pikes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: The show was more forgiving.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now they've been let out for now for now.
[SPEAKER_02]: for now at least, yeah, you know, but but it's nice that they eventually were rewarded for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And well, at least, let free.
[SPEAKER_02]: How much are we all going to miss Lord Jasper?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Jasper Wild is like I said, don't pass the name, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that shot boy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Tell my lady wife, do you think, I mean, it's like, I don't know, I was going to say what do you think he was going to say, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't care.
[SPEAKER_02]: You were just about to rape a woman.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Tell my lady wife enjoy your life without me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I tell it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He got it exactly right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Congratulations.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell my lady wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: Chop.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you tell her.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is lovely, just one of the highlights of that episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Damon, he did really have to have some fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: He and Otto, Hi, Tower, never gotten along.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this guy, Lord Jasper, he used to mock Damon and council meetings, also behind his back.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was just been consistently sexist.
[SPEAKER_02]: He is the one who saved Master Orwell's life last week when Damon almost be headed him.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like, actually, Larry, since gone to.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's like, oh, OK, it wasn't you.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, okay, credit words do, but that's it, that's the only good thing I can think of him doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: In the book, he mushroom, who's the more salacious court jester narrator of Fire and Blood, he said that Jasper's nickname was Iron Rod, because he was hard all the time, which would explain why he had 29 children with four wives, the last two died of exhaustion.
[SPEAKER_02]: RIP, no one will miss you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm very happy that we got that line.
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll tell my lady wife, chop, chop.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, do you have any final thoughts before we get into the feedback?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I think, well, yeah, this was a great episode, you know, the battles in the first episode where
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you were in pleasure, but this was a really, really stand out episode in this series for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I also quite like this episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking forward to seeing where we go next from here.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the one that I thought, you know, I thought the battle of the goal it would have been the season two finale and I thought this would have been the strong season opener because I'm really like we're changing to a new location.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's a real shift of things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I still feel like,
[SPEAKER_02]: I would have liked the better of the battle of what was I season, but it is what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a gorgeous first episode, and this one is where I feel like we're really starting on the next part of this story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, thank you again to hand of the pot Nancy for putting together this feedback.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Nancy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you would home, would like to contribute to future episodes, please send your emails to hotd at thelorhounds.com or use the contact form.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can also hop into the discord.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a link in the link to the show notes.
[SPEAKER_02]: there's a forum for House of the Dragon with individual threads for each episode so that you can have full spoiler chats as the episodes air.
[SPEAKER_02]: Jean, do you want to start with a dopaminey?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, dopamine and from our discord, hi, a constant refrain I am hearing and just heard again on a few other podcasts I've listened to about this shows that Larissa's the 9 A.G. on, milk of the Poppy so he will be more clear headed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Deep sigh of someone who lives with severe chronic pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: You are not more clear headed when you are an agonizing pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, you are using all of your mental energy just to survive.
[SPEAKER_01]: don't have room to think.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is such a myth in our culture currently because of the opiate crisis that was a real problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw the devastation of it in my own family, but there are some very wrong assumptions about pain and pain medication to have seeped into this show and how people are interpreting what is required to be clearheaded.
[SPEAKER_01]: It grates on me every time I hear it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a more accurate way to interpret this scene is that larynx is withholding nook of the poppy to exert further control over Aegon, whether he has it with him or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rant over, I just wanted to get a different perspective into the conversation for others who are also hearing this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we landed on control and suggested, perhaps, some sadism in there, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, totally agree with everything.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that's an important point to bring up from me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, okay, so I'll jump in with Marilyn on the status of women and Western, this is picking up from our conversation last time.
[SPEAKER_02]: She says, I'm now at the point in the episode where you're talking about the limited roles available to women and some people arguing that it is historically based.
[SPEAKER_02]: As a historian, I can assure you that this is not the case.
[SPEAKER_02]: Women had different roles in different historical periods naturally.
[SPEAKER_02]: In Anglo-Saxon England, they had a number of rights and responsibilities.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything inside the home was ruled by the woman.
[SPEAKER_02]: This might sound restrictive, but it wasn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, by the way, this, as she's talking about the Anglo-Saxon, it sounds a lot like the IEL structure in a wheel of time, but I won't elaborate and ignore the non-wheel time events.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyway, this was diminished somewhat by the Norman Conquest, but it was more directed against Anglo-Saxons per se, and not against women because of the gender.
[SPEAKER_02]: In later medieval times, women would be important in helping their husbands run their businesses.
[SPEAKER_02]: If the husband died, the widow could take over the business.
[SPEAKER_02]: She could be a member of the guild, and I have to think that women are also being spinners, wevers, and seamstresses, even in Westeros, since I can't imagine men harming their precious dignity so deeply by doing these tasks themselves.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also suspect that even in Western us, there were women who were brewers and tapsters who owned taverns and inns and so forth.
[SPEAKER_02]: Gender roles would also vary greatly between women in cities and towns and women in the countryside.
[SPEAKER_02]: At the end of the day, if you are a free holder, farmer, and it's time to get the turn up sin, everybody who is able will be working in the fields or a guardless of their personal quote-unquote equipment.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have compassion for Alice and I see her as a terrified pawn being shoved around the board and grasping at whatever power she has to try to make things better as she sees them, that she has a tendency towards rigidity is I think her own personal shield against the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: She was the one who had the absolute whevaus to go to the queen to try to craft a reconciliation, but it was utterly ruined by the actions yet again of the men in her life.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Alice and definitely deserves respect in a lot of ways, but she's also, I don't know how deeply she feels for other people.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like she's most protective of her status above all else.
[SPEAKER_02]: Does that make sense to you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we make sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of
[SPEAKER_01]: the world is so much more on vast than when we get this right into text or page and on screen a lot of times.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, thank you Marilyn, I'm from Rocky Zimbe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rhinore could have Syrex kill high tower for her that would be you that would have been okay by me Not enough sheep stealer in this episode and Rhinore offering to protect the veil as she stealer was funny You can't control him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He'd burn the veil down looking for sheep Profile like Yes, thank you
[SPEAKER_01]: But he didn't look really chill in this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't really chill in this episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was just waiting for the eye.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, give me the eye and I'm burning everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was really chill right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you think he had a little mini feast on roast sailor after his burns?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I hope so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hope so.
[SPEAKER_01]: It deserves it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_02]: For being such a good boy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, Nate says kind of rooting for the Valerian family reunion we had there though it felt like Bella had gotten over Jayce's death pretty quickly.
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: Love that we still have Coralist though if he's been ingesting sea water for a day and a half, he shouldn't look as good as he does in that scene with the hall.
[SPEAKER_01]: Coralists are good though.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I burst out laughing when Aiman walked into her in hall in a repeat of Daemon's entry in season two.
[SPEAKER_02]: I stopped laughing when he killed the hotel manager.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Simon's strong.
[SPEAKER_02]: Getting it from all sides.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, literally he's dead.
[SPEAKER_02]: I laughed again when he got stabbed.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm nervous as to what Nonsense, Alice Rivers will get up to with him, it would be too easy and tidy for him to die, even though that's what should happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Great timing on bringing Alice into the hall right after Reneera too stroked her dad's head off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks to Emma Garsey's acting, I finally got to be emotional about Jay Stein.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a tear or two were shed this time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sheepie will only protect the veil if they give him a steady supply of sheep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, not for any other reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyone commented that sheepie will protect his sheep.
[SPEAKER_01]: I totally agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree, totally, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's OK. That's what motivates him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's OK.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, we got another one from Abby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I have an issue with dragon riders wearing billowing capes while riding dragons.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what way is that remotely practical fly through stormy weather and the cape might be on your face.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it might get caught in the saddle thingies when I like it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I had to do the Edna Giff.
[SPEAKER_02]: No capes, but Nate points out, oddly enough, had Chase not been underwater, a cape might have been helpful in defending against those arrows.
[SPEAKER_02]: Amid evil, Japan, some samurai were a contraption called a horror, in English the term is often translated as arrow catcher.
[SPEAKER_02]: which seems nonsensical as it is a big sheet of cloth, sometimes with a bamboo structure underneath to make a poof out of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: In some cases, it was worn without the frame and billed out as the horsemen galloped along.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looks really impractical and was often used as a heraldic device along the same lines as the sashimono flags on poles attached to the back of a samurai's armor.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, studies by historical researchers have shown that actually the horror did provide very significant defense against arrows.
[SPEAKER_02]: Tests done with a writer wearing a horror that billed out and shooting arrows at his back modified to be non-deadly in case of an accident in the test obviously showed that because the arrow hit the horror's cloth out and away from the
[SPEAKER_02]: quote unquote catch the arrow far enough out that it wouldn't have harmed the writer.
[SPEAKER_02]: A billowing cape could provide similar protection against say a mirage crossbow bolt.
[SPEAKER_02]: If it weren't wet and sinking in the sea.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's also like somebody put up a gift of a cave being sucked into a jet engine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's also think they can serve.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so this is a very, yeah, that's make sense as a pro that's an extra cloth that's not against your body would kind of knock it away a bit on the arrow.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Nate, for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We get from Peter 077.
[SPEAKER_01]: It might have can in the blood magic that comes with dragons.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a reason why they would understand high for the area.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally agree, Peter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think that that is what the, with the Targaryen's belief.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think there is room for interpretation by Peter.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, you know, Valeria and if you're thought it, is that to each he says on the team of dragons, I kind of think of them like dogs that are part wolf.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can train them, but there are always might be a moment when they remember their nature.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we get last one from Abby from on this court, I am not convinced that dragons immediately understand the Valeria language.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's more an understanding of the emotions behind it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, if trained since birth by hand, lures the dragons will learn Valerian.
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw it with vague R&C's on one when the dragon famously picked up on Amon's thirst for revenge regardless of commands.
[SPEAKER_01]: If there's fear, desperation, it will be picked up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dragons are dragons, ultimately.
[SPEAKER_01]: A dragon is not a slave, not even a slave to his bonded rider.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK.
[SPEAKER_01]: Think about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw the David popped up and said, um, that in his head cannon, yeah, his head cannon seems to agree with mine, that it's like dragons are like cats, and you know, they're bonded with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: They will, they'll listen to most of your commands within the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're intelligent in the pet and beings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look, you're not going to take the magic out of my life, all right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I just tell you that right now, you're not taking the magic out of my life.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're believing the Targaryen propaganda.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, yes, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's our feedback for the episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do, we are going to be talking about book spoilers after the outro music, but before that just some housekeeping, we
[SPEAKER_02]: do not have screeners again.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you can expect episodes to release about this time each week and David will be taking over from here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that'll be up to, I don't know if you and David know yet which your recording schedule is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now yet, now yeah, I think he's still on VK.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he's so vacationed, he'll be back by the time of episode three.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'll be sending him voice mail says won't be the last time you hear from me, but looking forward to hearing which you guys talk about for the end and I'm always going to be looking forward to your voice mail.
[SPEAKER_02]: So please thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: What else would we be got going on on the
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got a weekly vampire at LaSat coverage that's going on with you and John right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah and and we're really enjoying it going deep into it's like LaSat is like my spirit vampire.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's disturbing to say they are all messed up.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're all messed up.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you watch this dragon show you understand this But he he's got as so this season is from his perspective and I think he's got some sort of he's got like several things going on Psychologically where he experiences like things layered on top of each other with mixed with music and I'm loving it I'm loving it all right
[SPEAKER_01]: Coming soon.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have Supergirl, which I saw yesterday with Ian.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I got the Papa.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this was my favorite movie ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's so.
[UNKNOWN]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a second of movies as you say that for.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's less than what you would think.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he doesn't always explain, you make those words.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a big superhero fan.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, he is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so yeah, so that was kind of surprising.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the movie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really like the movie, actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: So can't wait to talk about it with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: X-Men 97, season two, we're going to have a one shot of that coming out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we have our supercast and Patreon, so you want to hear that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so X-Men 97, season two, start next week and we'll figure out, yeah, we'll probably do a one-chun at the end of the season just because we're so busy with this and the other stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Supercast in Patreon, it's the same content both feeds, subscribers, you get ad free access to this, and all the other episodes we put out, there's also extras like a house of the Dragon Character Guide that Nancy has especially been putting together.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll find if you are a subscriber, you'll find a link at the very bottom of the notes for this episode to find that character guide.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's always the monthly extra episodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this is wine month.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to be giving wine tips in second breakfasts month.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're also doing a wine movie voting for that opens very soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, um, we have our affiliates.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you'll also find you'll find links in the link tree in the show notes, basically all the stuff we're talking about, including our affiliate podcasts, including brand new affiliate podcasts, dungeons and do rags.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're also covering the house of the dragon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Have you gotten a chance to check them out yet?
[SPEAKER_01]: I listened to the last week's episode.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: the very like a complementary vibe to us because it's very a very different vibe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's very different vibe but it's like it's a really good vibe though.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they described themselves as like a barbershop style, just like shooting a shit for guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: They need you guys, so it's very like it's I think one and a half of them
[SPEAKER_02]: know of more about the lore and the other ones are we're going to wait what's that character done which is a lot of fun and also yeah will she have dust my podcast we are starting on Friday with our silo coverage for season for the actual year
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we already put out a couple episodes about the teasers and trailers that came out so far, but it's a season three begins on Friday.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen, I've watched the first two episodes so far because we're not watching ahead of where we're recording.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I'm really enjoying the new season so far, especially enjoyed season episode two, so looking forward to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And do check out also our other affiliates never mind the music.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're psychology meets music, rings and rituals.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be starting a recap of rings of power season two soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: And my own The Star Wars can in timeline podcast and watch out for cosmic or corner coming end of July of a brand new feed for Brandon, Sanderson stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: and listeners at home.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the thank you music.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much to all of you for listening.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you enjoyed this, please share this podcast with anyone else that you think would also enjoy it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Jean, what do you have to say to these dragon bitches before we get into spoiler territory?
[SPEAKER_01]: He took me out, he took me out, let's go this far, let's go this far, let's go this far, let's go this far, let's go this far, let's go this far, let's go this far, let's go this far, let's go this far, let's go this far.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for listening to the lorehounds.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please send any questions and feedback to lorehounds at the lorehounds.com or hockey at the lorehounds.com and check out our supercast and patreon feeds for ad free access and bonus episodes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Look for all those links including links to all the other podcasts in our network in the link to the show notes in the opinion stated are ours personally and do not reflect the opinion of or belong to any employers or other entities.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, Craxis has sounded the full spoiler alarm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get into the book, Bichon.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to call out something in the trailer for next week, since we're saving trailer stuff for the section two, that's
[SPEAKER_02]: they are they talk about handing over Darren Targaryen in a way that like maybe rain and we'll have to kill him.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the kid they show themselves handing over is not Darren Targaryen because we know who the casting is for is for that and it was the brunette guy that we saw standing behind Orman High Tower last week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so who's that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Who's the other kid?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just a stand-in.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just a stand-in so that like Darren doesn't get killed But I guess that's why they didn't want to name Darren when we saw the previous episode To fake out the audience, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry if we spoiled that for anyone, but if you're in this section, you don't care All right, let's go back to that beach.
[SPEAKER_02]: So
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels fast, there were already going there, but I have to say, knowing that Bella ends up with Uncle Allen, they have way more chemistry, I think than her and Jay severed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really evident, you can see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, it is what is it, but it's going to happen so let it happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: And her sister, Reina, we said she's going full nettles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to say, what does that mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: What's her story going to do now?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think she's going to take the name, nettles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you think that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think she's going to become literally.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's literally going to become nettles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why could see the people using that name for her in the book?
[SPEAKER_02]: So she ends up going and finding her dad and they're looking for aim and together and stuff and they're bonding.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, in the book, it's not his daughter, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's two types of reports.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's the people who say he treats her like a daughter and the people who say they're sleeping together.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the implication that Reneira is mad because of the sleeping together part.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think they're not gonna do the sleeping together part here.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just not Damon and Reina's vibe.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that he's going to know she's there and help with this new persona.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's going to know that, yes, this is my daughter.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not gonna call him my daughter.
[SPEAKER_01]: She is medals.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just really think that going to turn her into medals.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think that there might still be salacious rumors about them because, you know, people be people and
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, it's going to be, I, you know, I'm hating this nettles change less and less.
[SPEAKER_02]: I still think it's a shame.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't have that real outsider perspective.
[SPEAKER_02]: The nettles brought to things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I suppose we could say that's all but he sucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I guess we, they've set it up so it makes sense that Reneera would hate nettles for reasons that don't have to do with sleeping with her husband.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also think they've set it up so that I like the end of nettle story is as she and sheeps dealer fly off by way they become they end up like I mean the implication is basically that they become she becomes a fire witch in the mountains of the veil where people come for some sort of
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that that's not a bad way for this character to end rather than the more mainstream version that Raina has in the book.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I also think, I know people were upset when they moved because sheep stealer in the book originally was on dragon mount because that's just where like the wild dragons would hang out because that's why it's called dragon mount.
[SPEAKER_02]: And but to me, like it makes sense that a wild dragon would be like, nah, I don't want to be with all of you other fools.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get this nearby lush valley with all the sheep.
[SPEAKER_01]: All the food and the water.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this is my turn.
[SPEAKER_02]: A few guys fight it out on that rock.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm still just keeping an eye.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't want to say anything in the main episode, but I'm just keeping an eye on like, there's still no Thailand Lannister.
[SPEAKER_02]: The other Lannister.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that he was low-heart through him over the ship after warning him that his armor was not going to be good for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I guess I should just presume he drowned, but I think it's like such a big part of the story in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the whole thing with Raniera torturing him, you know, and how that changes public perception toward her and then he, you know, it's mained and then still ends up being hand to her son and that whole arc.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will kind of miss that arc and I wondered if for a second they were going to give that arc to auto high tower or something instead, which I would have understood to certain degree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank goodness.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, they just went ahead and chucked that right off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank goodness for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But okay, still seeing if Thailand shows up or if they're just skipping all that as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm glad I didn't want to say this in the main episode, but I'm glad with Black Alley, Allison Blackwood, that they're focusing on her because I hope that she, I think, where this might end.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's egg in the younger.
[SPEAKER_02]: takes the throne, and then we have what's called the hour of the wolf, which is where Krigan Stark, who we saw Jay Scope at meet last season.
[SPEAKER_02]: Krigan Stark comes down and supports Aegon the third, but he wants more retribution for various things, including even like wants to take out Coralus at one point.
[SPEAKER_02]: until people intervene.
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of the things that sort of helps soften him is he and Black Alley fall in love by reports or get married.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, she did.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's implied that she had a lesbian relationship with Sabbath afresh.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe she's bisexual.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe she's just marrying him to
[SPEAKER_01]: for the name.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do a solid because he likes her.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I hope that the fact that Ali's being included is not just token female representation, but actually building toward that story.
[SPEAKER_01]: That story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you a lot of people are talking about a Damon Massaria Reneera, threesome coming?
[SPEAKER_02]: Since we didn't get the therupple with Lena while she was alive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that something you want or would be okay with?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's something that I don't need it, you know, so I don't feel like they've been setting it up a bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't know what they're doing with Messaria.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't think it's needed for the story to move forward in any way.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've made Massaria less harsh than in the books.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now if she has her horrible end, where she's like basically killed in beatings, walking through the street.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is, that is.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I want to see it, even.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to see that either.
[SPEAKER_02]: But do you know what I am oddly invested in?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is the Alice movie?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why?
[SPEAKER_02]: Of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I love love.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you love love.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I mean, just in this Alice Aiman romance, and this is a part of the other part of the edible thing that, like, it's interesting that Damon and Alice have a relationship in this show.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, not a romantic relationship, you know, but just whatever alliance we've decided it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: and amance coming in wanting to kill daddy and they will fight to the death.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Mary Mommy in this case represented by Alice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it begins.
[SPEAKER_01]: That whole story really starts now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you have any more spoiler thoughts?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm just, you know, I am,
[SPEAKER_01]: interested to see how the Alice and Amon story is played out on screen, you know, if they keep all the witchy stuff from her side in the books, you know, if just to see it, all of that good stuff, I just, in the way that the show ended with him at her feet begging for help, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm interested to see how they tackle their relationship.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't want to see vague iron correctsies.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, why do we always got to pick that bitch as against each other?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Powerable people doing horrible things to wonderful creatures.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I just have the dragon frolic show.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's like shut up.
[SPEAKER_02]: Alright, on that note, let's let Correxy's take us out.