WEBVTT 00:01.877 --> 00:09.261 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the intentional fatherhood podcast, where we explore what it means to live on purpose as a father and how legacy starts at home. 00:09.921 --> 00:12.242 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm Justin Whittmorely, and I'm Brooke Moser. 00:12.562 --> 00:16.624 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be your hosts, and we desire to bring biblical hope and practical hope. 00:17.164 --> 00:18.005 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening. 00:20.726 --> 00:22.467 [SPEAKER_01]: Rock, paper scissors, shoot. 00:23.207 --> 00:24.748 [SPEAKER_00]: Rock, paper scissors, shoot. 00:24.988 --> 00:25.628 [SPEAKER_01]: You're a steak! 00:25.888 --> 00:26.789 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I win! 00:27.576 --> 00:36.422 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the intentional fatherhood podcast where competition is not everything and winning is not everything So guys if that is your case this is what this episode's about. 00:36.662 --> 00:46.728 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not welcome back season three all through vocation We're calling I really wish I was introducing right now Because you were like, I do a better. 00:46.828 --> 00:47.269 [SPEAKER_00]: I got it. 00:47.389 --> 00:47.669 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 00:47.789 --> 00:50.651 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you but that said there's no 00:53.095 --> 00:57.260 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a, I could see a season of life where you had to work through being a sore loser. 00:57.400 --> 01:02.506 [SPEAKER_00]: I could see what that was such a calm insult. 01:02.547 --> 01:05.871 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I just mean like, as a kid, I'm sure that was something you had to be taught. 01:05.951 --> 01:06.852 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I have no doubt. 01:09.827 --> 01:11.268 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're talking about work. 01:11.328 --> 01:12.588 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 01:12.648 --> 01:12.908 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 01:13.528 --> 01:14.889 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, we have fun over here. 01:14.929 --> 01:15.609 [SPEAKER_00]: So welcome. 01:15.629 --> 01:18.110 [SPEAKER_00]: And everybody is like taking time to like listen to this. 01:18.150 --> 01:18.670 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. 01:18.910 --> 01:23.171 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you have listened through the season and before we just say thank you so much. 01:23.212 --> 01:28.613 [SPEAKER_00]: But Justin, why don't you let him know today how to actually connect with us? 01:29.354 --> 01:30.274 [SPEAKER_00]: Some things that are helpful. 01:30.874 --> 01:36.199 [SPEAKER_01]: Gosh, we would love it if you all would like subscribe and send us questions. 01:36.219 --> 01:43.044 [SPEAKER_01]: Just hit the like button on whatever platform you're listening on subscribe so you can stay tuned with all the episodes we're putting out. 01:43.845 --> 01:45.727 [SPEAKER_01]: And share it with somebody. 01:46.327 --> 01:47.388 [SPEAKER_01]: We say this at Nazim. 01:47.528 --> 01:49.310 [SPEAKER_01]: We want you all to listen in community. 01:49.410 --> 01:50.471 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the best way to do. 01:51.311 --> 01:54.073 [SPEAKER_01]: All of life can't be a father alone, shouldn't be. 01:54.513 --> 01:56.114 [SPEAKER_01]: So listen to this with other dads. 01:56.635 --> 02:00.798 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you have questions, we are going to answer questions on a future episode. 02:00.818 --> 02:02.779 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to answer them at the Fatherhood Retreat. 02:02.839 --> 02:03.980 [SPEAKER_01]: We love answering your questions. 02:04.000 --> 02:05.180 [SPEAKER_01]: So send us a voice memo. 02:05.741 --> 02:08.162 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello at intentionalfatherhood.org. 02:08.763 --> 02:09.363 [SPEAKER_01]: Stay your name. 02:10.264 --> 02:10.904 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell us where you're from. 02:11.544 --> 02:13.246 [SPEAKER_01]: Stay your question in the form of a question. 02:13.386 --> 02:14.526 [SPEAKER_01]: Keep it to about 60 seconds. 02:15.167 --> 02:18.129 [SPEAKER_01]: And we just might play you on the podcast and answer your question. 02:20.150 --> 02:20.851 [SPEAKER_00]: You're really good at that. 02:21.051 --> 02:22.212 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not, that's not talking to you. 02:22.232 --> 02:22.813 [SPEAKER_00]: You're getting better. 02:22.833 --> 02:23.473 [SPEAKER_01]: You're doing good. 02:23.493 --> 02:23.874 [SPEAKER_01]: Getting better. 02:24.374 --> 02:26.856 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, but episode nine today, excited about this one. 02:26.896 --> 02:30.740 [SPEAKER_00]: This one I will say, I'm excited to talk about, but this one was your idea entirely. 02:30.960 --> 02:40.910 [SPEAKER_00]: And I really like this idea and is one that, um, I didn't necessarily, like he didn't naturally for sure come to my mind, but the more that we talked about it, it was like, 02:41.550 --> 02:45.433 [SPEAKER_00]: and even, as we've been processing it, like this is really important. 02:45.833 --> 02:46.874 [SPEAKER_00]: So said it in a so glad. 02:47.054 --> 02:50.616 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I mean, of course, you have good ideas. 02:50.816 --> 03:00.683 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying it was as we talked about it just to realize, wow, this actually is more foundational, I think, than than most people, including myself, even sometimes track. 03:00.763 --> 03:02.084 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we're going to have a whole conversation about it. 03:02.304 --> 03:02.604 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 03:03.705 --> 03:07.848 [SPEAKER_01]: So this episode is on drum roll. 03:10.613 --> 03:16.815 [SPEAKER_01]: the amateur, your side projects, your hobbies, the things that you do for the love of doing it. 03:16.855 --> 03:39.560 [SPEAKER_01]: You can't talk about vocation in the world, not in a Christian way that's rooted in God's creation of the world and redemption of all things through Jesus Christ, the risen Son of God who will bring all things new and the new heavens and the new earth without talking about doing some things, not for money, not for productivity, not for usefulness, just for the love of it. 03:39.820 --> 03:48.510 [SPEAKER_01]: This is why the amateur is a deeply Christian concept because we're just going to link up some key theology here. 03:48.530 --> 03:50.252 [SPEAKER_01]: We hope you've been listening to this whole season. 03:50.292 --> 03:59.403 [SPEAKER_01]: But remember, in episode one, we talked about God creating the world out of love, out of goodness, not out of necessity. 03:59.443 --> 03:59.883 [SPEAKER_01]: He did not 04:01.109 --> 04:02.790 [SPEAKER_01]: need us to exist. 04:02.810 --> 04:04.471 [SPEAKER_01]: He did not need creation to exist. 04:04.731 --> 04:05.411 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 04:05.631 --> 04:08.973 [SPEAKER_01]: The Trinity was super happy before we came into the picture. 04:09.553 --> 04:12.195 [SPEAKER_01]: But God wanted to do something beautiful. 04:13.035 --> 04:16.057 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is the idea that creation emanates. 04:16.857 --> 04:18.318 [SPEAKER_01]: out of God's love for. 04:18.358 --> 04:23.121 [SPEAKER_01]: You see this in Colossians, actually, all things are sustained by God that depended on Him. 04:24.201 --> 04:33.647 [SPEAKER_01]: There's great theology on this, but one way that I have just loved it summed up is in Father Capon's book, the supper of the Lamb. 04:34.167 --> 04:38.450 [SPEAKER_00]: If you father K-pop, but that's what I call do that as legs. 04:38.870 --> 04:42.573 [SPEAKER_01]: Father K-pop would be an amazing Christian K-pop band. 04:42.633 --> 04:45.915 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's incredible. 04:45.995 --> 04:46.575 [SPEAKER_01]: Somebody do that. 04:47.396 --> 04:51.118 [SPEAKER_01]: Father K-pop, y'all have heard me talk about K-pop a lot, probably. 04:52.099 --> 04:54.401 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a truthyologian, a physicalable priest. 04:57.405 --> 04:59.928 [SPEAKER_01]: Before Episcopalian, Nism became what it is now. 05:00.248 --> 05:02.811 [SPEAKER_01]: So I just some of your cautious of that theology. 05:03.211 --> 05:04.393 [SPEAKER_01]: Father Capon has great theology. 05:04.413 --> 05:07.776 [SPEAKER_01]: He was writing in the 60s and the 70s wrote great theology books. 05:07.796 --> 05:09.338 [SPEAKER_01]: But he also read a beautiful book. 05:09.558 --> 05:14.063 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a cookbook called the supper of the lamb, where he talks about cooking for the love. 05:14.083 --> 05:14.784 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a great cook. 05:15.685 --> 05:17.306 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just going to read you a short passage. 05:18.287 --> 05:22.268 [SPEAKER_01]: Because he introduces the book on cooking like, why is it theologian writing about cooking? 05:22.308 --> 05:26.708 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, well, there is the role of the amateur in the world. 05:26.728 --> 05:27.769 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what he says about it. 05:27.789 --> 05:43.831 [SPEAKER_01]: The role of the amateur to look the world back to grace, kill an orange, do it lovingly in perfect quarters like little boats or in staggered exfoliations like a flat map of the round world or do it in one long spiral as my grandfather used to do. 05:44.231 --> 05:47.292 [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing's more likely to become garbage than an orange peel. 05:47.972 --> 05:54.274 [SPEAKER_01]: But for as long as anyone looks at it in delight, it stands a million triumphant miles from the trash heap. 05:54.415 --> 05:57.436 [SPEAKER_01]: That, you know, here's where he becomes a Theologian all of a sudden. 05:57.976 --> 05:58.576 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a great writer. 05:59.056 --> 06:01.197 [SPEAKER_01]: That, you know, is why the world exists at all. 06:01.357 --> 06:04.939 [SPEAKER_01]: It remains outside the cosmic garbage can of nothingness. 06:05.179 --> 06:05.459 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 06:05.859 --> 06:13.602 [SPEAKER_01]: Not because it's such a solemn necessity that nobody can get rid of it, but because it is the orange peel hung on God's chandelier. 06:16.583 --> 06:19.464 [SPEAKER_01]: He likes it, therefore it stays. 06:20.205 --> 06:34.590 [SPEAKER_01]: Just leave a, God likes creation, therefore it continues to exist, the whole marvelous collection of stones, skins, feathers and strings exists, because at least one lover, God has never quite taken his eye off it. 06:34.750 --> 06:35.210 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 06:35.770 --> 06:36.511 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. 06:36.551 --> 06:37.391 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a playful writer. 06:37.411 --> 06:44.053 [SPEAKER_01]: He's a great theological writer, but it's this genesis idea that God loves what he has made and we ought to love it too. 06:44.193 --> 06:47.174 [SPEAKER_01]: And the role of the amateur is to do things for the love. 06:47.614 --> 06:50.995 [SPEAKER_00]: Please Yassies is something that I always go back to. 06:52.275 --> 06:52.715 [SPEAKER_00]: What is it? 06:53.075 --> 06:56.456 [SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing better than to find enjoyment in all their toil is essentially the sum of it. 06:56.476 --> 06:59.017 [SPEAKER_00]: Like at the end of the day, like let's sum all this up. 06:59.677 --> 07:04.803 [SPEAKER_00]: there's nothing better than to just actually find enjoyment in your work and obviously this paraphrasing parts. 07:04.843 --> 07:11.510 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think there's there's that first Timothy 6, God originally provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 07:12.531 --> 07:20.339 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is something that I just have to say because we know it is we have to become aware alive again. 07:20.980 --> 07:31.930 [SPEAKER_00]: and talk about why fathers need hobbies and play and creativity to be a fully rounded, healthy man, father, husband, all the things. 07:32.050 --> 07:36.675 [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason why is because we are culturally in this crazy spot. 07:37.616 --> 07:52.638 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to talk about what ours are, what we do will give you a lot of a different stuff that, and this isn't like, this is just truly the stuff that we are currently enjoying or just practicing with this, but I also want to say that it's really, really essential. 07:53.599 --> 07:56.901 [SPEAKER_00]: for you to get in tune with the fact that this is important. 07:56.921 --> 08:00.203 [SPEAKER_00]: So before even like you skipping, you're like, I don't need that episode. 08:00.663 --> 08:05.086 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you think I'm just, if that's your tendency, you're the one that needs it more. 08:05.106 --> 08:15.572 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're just skip this, you, you're the person that actually, this is for you because you've gotten locked into what many men do and Justin, I especially and included high five my dude. 08:15.672 --> 08:16.152 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's go. 08:16.393 --> 08:16.773 [SPEAKER_00]: There we go. 08:17.193 --> 08:35.125 [SPEAKER_00]: which is you get into a pattern of productivity and work and accomplishment and responsibility and making money and provision and that is like a flywheel that keeps going that unless you have something to interrupt it to stop it, it will just get faster and faster till it undoes you. 08:35.385 --> 08:35.625 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 08:35.966 --> 08:46.613 [SPEAKER_00]: I think creativity, like creativity, hobbies, the amateur, enjoying stuff just for the love of it, is the thing that slows that fly wheel down and puts it at the right pace and helps it. 08:46.654 --> 08:54.700 [SPEAKER_00]: Just like Sabbath and the different things we've been talking about, it actually is something that is essential for your fatherhood, your fatherhood needs you to have hobbies. 08:55.400 --> 09:05.743 [SPEAKER_00]: for your sanity, for your enjoyment, because if not, life is just then responsibility with no enjoyment and grumpy, grumpy people are made from that combination. 09:06.063 --> 09:14.766 [SPEAKER_01]: For some reason, this was just connecting in my head, the idea that God made you to laugh, like he created you with the ability to laugh. 09:14.846 --> 09:15.286 [SPEAKER_01]: I love this. 09:15.326 --> 09:18.887 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to look at things and be like, that's wild or that's weird. 09:19.047 --> 09:19.627 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, funny. 09:19.888 --> 09:20.128 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 09:20.388 --> 09:20.788 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think 09:21.588 --> 09:34.132 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of dads, I mean, particularly in this phase of giving their life away, have lost a bit of the ability to just to laugh or play or back up from work and be like, hey, the world is worth enjoying. 09:34.892 --> 09:40.314 [SPEAKER_01]: And what are your kids in your wife need more from you than a dad who knows how to 09:42.369 --> 09:48.973 [SPEAKER_01]: hang up the towel at five o'clock, go home and laugh and play with the family, which is something that they love. 09:49.093 --> 10:02.500 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also like, maybe just depending on where you're at in your journey, right, no matter how old or young you are when you're hearing this, it's important to start to learn how to do this because for some of you have been just on this wheel that is going and going and going, going, this will feel foreign. 10:02.620 --> 10:03.601 [SPEAKER_00]: It will feel wrong. 10:04.121 --> 10:09.564 [SPEAKER_00]: You will start doing things that have no productivity or money connected to it and it will feel like you're doing something 10:11.525 --> 10:35.849 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just want to say, you've got Jesus, you've got the Bible, you have other millions of men on your, on your side to say, no, no, this is actually good for you to cultivate this to make space for it to include others in it and to actually prioritize because I think this is something where so many men, we reduce life to work and rest like we, and we've been talking about this like, hey, you're going to work hard, you're going to have a calling, you have these different things and then you need to rest. 10:36.369 --> 10:38.773 [SPEAKER_00]: but we have to remember to enjoy creation. 10:38.913 --> 10:43.840 [SPEAKER_00]: We have to remember to help to encourage or cultivate joy. 10:43.860 --> 10:46.344 [SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy without outcome. 10:46.424 --> 10:47.065 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I want to say that. 10:47.125 --> 10:49.228 [SPEAKER_00]: Joy without an outcome. 10:49.268 --> 10:51.371 [SPEAKER_00]: Like having fun for the sake of having fun. 10:51.411 --> 10:51.652 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 10:52.012 --> 11:03.838 [SPEAKER_00]: And so in different personalities you're going to lean into this easier than others, but the point is for all of us again, it doesn't matter where you land on this, if this is easy to, or it's hard, we all have a responsibility to make this a priority. 11:03.858 --> 11:06.239 [SPEAKER_00]: So we have three different things we're going to move through. 11:07.019 --> 11:14.163 [SPEAKER_00]: We talked about really quick, and I think this is important, the things that basically slow us down, what stops us from doing this? 11:14.243 --> 11:16.244 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like three things that keep us, 11:17.084 --> 11:23.448 [SPEAKER_01]: from stepping into this very God-like mode of doing things for the enjoyment of it. 11:23.488 --> 11:24.789 [SPEAKER_01]: What keeps us from going there? 11:26.189 --> 11:29.351 [SPEAKER_00]: First one that we identify and so true, everything becomes about money. 11:29.471 --> 11:33.954 [SPEAKER_00]: So you've got that side hustle culture, monetized every gift that happens. 11:34.114 --> 11:39.277 [SPEAKER_00]: So you said this just like you're making something on Etsy and someone's like, hey, or making something like this. 11:39.297 --> 11:40.177 [SPEAKER_00]: Making something like this. 11:40.197 --> 11:41.158 [SPEAKER_00]: You should sell this on it. 11:41.178 --> 11:42.299 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. 11:42.319 --> 11:45.400 [SPEAKER_00]: Or you're doing this leather goods thing. 11:45.420 --> 11:45.921 [SPEAKER_00]: You love this. 11:46.881 --> 11:48.042 [SPEAKER_00]: Why aren't you making it to the business? 11:48.142 --> 11:48.342 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 11:48.442 --> 11:53.984 [SPEAKER_00]: And then all of a sudden, it goes from enjoyment to like pressure and you hate it pretty quick when those moments happen. 11:54.004 --> 12:00.666 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's everything has become about money and I think there's such wisdom and slowing down and asking the deeper question. 12:00.686 --> 12:10.250 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, is this a hobby or is this actually something that is for the world part of my greater calling the greater thing I made to do? 12:10.650 --> 12:30.662 [SPEAKER_01]: Can I look at speed to this for a second because there's there's nothing wrong with you by the way taking your hobby and making it a side project or selling it and Etsy we There's absolutely nothing wrong with it and in fact actually my I think life story Raps around this a little bit talked to in earlier episodes how writing is always been a passion of mine. 12:31.162 --> 12:32.923 [SPEAKER_01]: I've always felt it part of my vocation 12:33.343 --> 12:49.708 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, even though I was scared to name it in my 20s, it didn't feel right to call myself a writer when I didn't have anything like, you know, really officially published someone was paying me for it and that I just want to pause on that for a minute, I was scared to call myself a writer because no one was paying me for it. 12:51.068 --> 13:07.932 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a sign that you're doing the thing we talked about in episodes 1 through 3, which is tying your understanding of vocation to either an IRS tax status of it or an economic viability of it. 13:08.653 --> 13:15.314 [SPEAKER_01]: All of your vocation is not necessarily for money and one of the important gifts I think 13:18.955 --> 13:33.380 [SPEAKER_01]: Amazingly writing turned into something that is a part of my vocation for money now, but one of the things that I am committed to and I pray to about this a lot and thought about this a lot is keeping it in a place where it's not done for the money. 13:34.020 --> 13:35.381 [SPEAKER_01]: So people ask me all the time. 13:36.001 --> 13:55.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you just going to write like and speak and quit the lawyer and thing and there's many reasons why I don't want to do that But one of them is I really like the idea being able to provide for my family through lawyering and keep writing in a place that is for the love So I don't know that if I would say I'm an amateur writer in the sense of it is now a profession You know, I am paid for it. 13:55.967 --> 14:02.349 [SPEAKER_01]: I take it very seriously, but there's a real part of my life with writing that is for the love you're doing it anyway 14:02.629 --> 14:03.229 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing it anyway. 14:03.249 --> 14:04.049 [SPEAKER_01]: I always will do it. 14:04.109 --> 14:08.931 [SPEAKER_01]: No, if everyone canceled me and said, I'm not going to pay you for anything, your words are worthless. 14:09.231 --> 14:10.451 [SPEAKER_01]: I would write because I'm must. 14:11.092 --> 14:20.875 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I want you, you ought to think like, what's the thing that you must do in your life to be who God made you to be, what working, yeah, camping. 14:22.435 --> 14:24.757 [SPEAKER_01]: sense Oh, don't go on. 14:24.817 --> 14:25.217 [SPEAKER_01]: Not yet. 14:25.297 --> 14:25.617 [SPEAKER_01]: Not yet. 14:25.677 --> 14:25.857 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 14:25.877 --> 14:28.379 [SPEAKER_01]: I want you to hear people like what's he talking about. 14:28.499 --> 14:32.722 [SPEAKER_00]: I would just say everything but so that's that's one thing that everything becomes about money. 14:32.742 --> 14:36.925 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's one potential thing that you just need to name and know like has everything become about money for you. 14:36.945 --> 14:38.986 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's something to 14:39.366 --> 14:40.007 [SPEAKER_00]: What's the second one? 14:40.027 --> 14:41.829 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you had it on your, what's the second one? 14:42.069 --> 14:48.516 [SPEAKER_01]: The second thing that prevents us from stepping into this part of life is that people don't necessarily understand this part of our lives. 14:48.736 --> 14:48.977 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 14:49.117 --> 14:49.357 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 14:49.417 --> 14:57.806 [SPEAKER_01]: When I became a lawyer for example, I was actually so excited to get what I call a Richard scary occupation. 15:00.187 --> 15:02.448 [SPEAKER_01]: You read the Richard Scary Children's books. 15:02.508 --> 15:03.788 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody's read these as a kid. 15:03.828 --> 15:08.310 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like the pictures of the animals, like on a Richard Scary busy town street. 15:08.730 --> 15:09.930 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like here's the dentist. 15:09.950 --> 15:10.890 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the lawyer. 15:11.090 --> 15:12.291 [SPEAKER_00]: You see a accountant. 15:12.311 --> 15:13.811 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's the garbage collector. 15:14.251 --> 15:16.732 [SPEAKER_01]: I got those gorgeous scary occupations. 15:16.892 --> 15:18.812 [SPEAKER_01]: Everybody knows what a lawyer does. 15:19.032 --> 15:19.432 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 15:19.572 --> 15:21.533 [SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, there's a danger to this. 15:21.573 --> 15:23.734 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, oh, you can now have an identity. 15:23.974 --> 15:25.254 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm that. 15:25.714 --> 15:30.989 [SPEAKER_01]: And we've hatched our identity to our jobs, but when we get into the realm of hobbies, um, 15:32.634 --> 15:36.136 [SPEAKER_01]: People don't necessarily understand why you love stained glass. 15:36.617 --> 15:39.699 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, they think it's weird that you like stained glass. 15:40.319 --> 15:44.762 [SPEAKER_01]: And that you want to recover the Renaissance art of handmade stained glass. 15:45.543 --> 15:48.965 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're, they're like, this is not useful, dude. 15:49.025 --> 15:50.967 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a little extra, this is out there. 15:50.987 --> 15:56.871 [SPEAKER_01]: But you are obsessed with passing old churches on the street and be like, why don't we make this anymore? 15:57.271 --> 15:59.433 [SPEAKER_01]: And my point is whether it's stained glass or, I don't know, 16:00.093 --> 16:11.009 [SPEAKER_01]: Whatever this leather making leather goods people are going to be like, I don't understand why you're doing this Maybe your wife is gonna be like, I'm gonna stand where this is going to be a twice for this. 16:11.089 --> 16:15.955 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so one of the things I'll just say you want to my Random I was so good 16:17.237 --> 16:22.541 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been really slow to like, I actually, I shared this with you without recording. 16:22.581 --> 16:26.584 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I don't know if I want to talk about this because really, truly, it's just for me. 16:26.744 --> 16:28.265 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not for anyone else. 16:28.485 --> 16:31.827 [SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't mean that I won't talk about it. 16:31.867 --> 16:36.110 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think for me, one of the things I love is I love fragrance. 16:36.450 --> 16:38.612 [SPEAKER_00]: I have always have fragrances of all sorts and kind. 16:38.892 --> 16:40.394 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're already looking me out. 16:40.414 --> 16:44.918 [SPEAKER_00]: People are leaning into their steering wheel, the speaker, he's like, what does that like, if I could tell you? 16:45.238 --> 16:45.619 [SPEAKER_01]: Freak. 16:45.639 --> 16:45.919 [SPEAKER_01]: Freak. 16:45.939 --> 16:46.360 [SPEAKER_01]: Freak. 16:46.420 --> 16:46.680 [SPEAKER_01]: Freak. 16:46.700 --> 16:46.880 [SPEAKER_00]: Freak. 16:46.940 --> 16:47.180 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 16:47.341 --> 16:50.644 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, if you understand some of my story, I didn't got to grow up with sports. 16:50.704 --> 16:52.946 [SPEAKER_00]: I grew up with a different situation. 16:54.367 --> 16:57.289 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're laughing for other reasons to tell you more later, but that's David. 16:57.309 --> 16:57.950 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love it. 16:58.010 --> 17:00.311 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's not even the point. 17:00.491 --> 17:13.960 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that, so like, when I say figures, what I mean, I mean, like different clones, different like like the hobby of of actually understanding sent and sent profiles and like wearing fragrances because I like them. 17:14.401 --> 17:15.601 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, here's what you're talking about. 17:15.621 --> 17:16.262 [SPEAKER_00]: People don't understand. 17:16.802 --> 17:23.144 [SPEAKER_00]: You're judging, some of you are listening right now and you're like judging, you're like, and all of them do, you like, but also let me just say this. 17:23.944 --> 17:30.005 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are such a person that you feel like you need to judge somebody for liking something, that's on you not on me. 17:30.265 --> 17:33.226 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm secure enough to go like, yeah, I'm sharing and I'm not, don't worry. 17:33.246 --> 17:34.146 [SPEAKER_00]: I have my own insecurities. 17:34.546 --> 17:39.347 [SPEAKER_00]: But this doesn't bother me to share with you because I think it's a perfectly example of what you're talking about. 17:39.607 --> 17:41.968 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't talk about this except for the few people that I 17:46.989 --> 18:06.158 [SPEAKER_00]: And then secondly, it's something that even my wife goes, I don't really get it and she and like the understood why we're talking about the understanding thing is she's like Frugal would buy nature and she's also like more of a minimalist so she's like, why would you not just have like one or three and I'm like why would you not have 20 or 50 like I don't get like you know what I mean 18:06.718 --> 18:07.399 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I don't know 50. 18:07.479 --> 18:08.339 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even have 20. 18:08.419 --> 18:09.640 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm trying to say like, I quit. 18:09.660 --> 18:11.202 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not 50. 18:12.102 --> 18:13.183 [SPEAKER_00]: But I want to say something actually. 18:13.223 --> 18:23.971 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the, I think the core point and reply it to whatever you are thing is, I don't do this for anybody and for anyone but the enjoyment of it. 18:24.772 --> 18:28.675 [SPEAKER_00]: I, I honestly like when I look at fragrance and fragrance profiles and all those different stuff. 18:29.398 --> 18:42.286 [SPEAKER_00]: what I love about it and I don't know why, and again, you can judge all you want, but I will say that it literally makes me think of all the different scriptures when Solomon was trading with the queen and all this stuff. 18:42.386 --> 18:52.792 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of the things they traded were all of these incredible fragrances, but then also all of these particular materials and fabrics and all this, like 18:57.295 --> 19:01.840 [SPEAKER_00]: sense were one of the five things that God gave us. 19:01.920 --> 19:05.504 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the five, yeah, why am I blinking a little sense of sense is that we have. 19:06.465 --> 19:18.117 [SPEAKER_00]: And I actually, because I got so nerdy about this, I was like, I wonder like what, because I don't, like you hear about sight sound, smell, or taste, but we don't talk about smell that much. 19:18.777 --> 19:33.103 [SPEAKER_01]: And interestingly, the Bible and also ancient pagan literature talks a lot about gods and the Bible talks about Yahweh, appreciating the aroma of incense and sacrifice. 19:33.443 --> 19:43.347 [SPEAKER_01]: There is something we've lost in our modern culture that ancient cultures and people before us understood that this is a rich part of the experience of creation to smell something for a great 19:43.507 --> 19:52.212 [SPEAKER_00]: Elizabeth, I hope you're listening to this, um, but it's to say that to, to honestly to me, it's one of the five senses God gave us. 19:53.072 --> 19:55.494 [SPEAKER_00]: And this guy was talking about cooking, right? 19:56.634 --> 19:56.994 [SPEAKER_00]: K-pop. 19:57.375 --> 20:01.857 [SPEAKER_00]: He was talking about cooking. 20:02.958 --> 20:06.259 [SPEAKER_00]: And all of the different, like you have five of these senses. 20:06.479 --> 20:12.743 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're dialed in on one and it brings you particular enjoyment and connection with God and just like 20:13.543 --> 20:22.749 [SPEAKER_00]: I, I like literally a more common regulated at times when I like have these different fragrances because again, like that's my wiring make up yours is going to be different. 20:23.469 --> 20:29.293 [SPEAKER_00]: But wherever my people are at like, please just let me know, but I would just say lastly that this is something that. 20:30.053 --> 20:32.835 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't talk about much because it's not for anyone else. 20:33.415 --> 20:36.537 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't make it a big deal because I don't care if other people like it or not. 20:37.017 --> 20:39.599 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to sit and be with me all day. 20:39.859 --> 20:40.539 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's something I do. 20:40.599 --> 20:43.081 [SPEAKER_00]: My wife doesn't even care too much or even like it that much. 20:43.181 --> 20:45.963 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've had to go, do I do this for her? 20:45.983 --> 20:47.644 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I not do it for her? 20:47.684 --> 20:49.705 [SPEAKER_00]: Can I like it even if she doesn't love it? 20:51.305 --> 21:06.430 [SPEAKER_00]: She more tolerates than she does love and like I've had to work through that like very really I've had to work through that like do I feel my insecure like am I doing it for the wrong reasons and at the end of the day This is something that I love I love thinking through the process. 21:06.530 --> 21:07.090 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a buddy 21:08.078 --> 21:13.061 [SPEAKER_00]: I got a text last night, Tony, you know who you are, buddy, we have this fragrance trading situation. 21:13.402 --> 21:13.882 [SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing. 21:13.922 --> 21:14.883 [SPEAKER_01]: I witnessed you and Tony. 21:14.923 --> 21:16.664 [SPEAKER_01]: I think talking about fragrances for the first time. 21:16.684 --> 21:20.526 [SPEAKER_01]: I was between you guys and I was like, one, it smells really good here too. 21:20.566 --> 21:23.348 [SPEAKER_01]: These guys are about to hit off a bromance. 21:23.368 --> 21:23.848 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 21:23.929 --> 21:27.471 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a language that a lot of people don't actually speak unless you speak it in some, it's really fun. 21:27.871 --> 21:34.095 [SPEAKER_00]: He got, he got some fragrance that we're going to be sharing and it just has a note from his wife on it and it just says, you and Brooke have issues. 21:34.135 --> 21:34.576 [SPEAKER_00]: Love your wife. 21:36.977 --> 21:39.559 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not actually bad ones, but that is actually true. 21:40.200 --> 21:41.301 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would say of course I have issues. 21:42.382 --> 21:48.267 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, it was so funny because again, like in that situation, I know he's doing it because he loves it. 21:48.547 --> 21:49.348 [SPEAKER_00]: I do it because I love it. 21:49.408 --> 21:52.190 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just something that is just the true enjoyment. 21:52.590 --> 21:54.032 [SPEAKER_01]: Even though people don't understand it. 21:54.052 --> 21:57.014 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that you kind of went hard in the paint there. 21:57.415 --> 21:57.935 [SPEAKER_01]: And I love it. 21:58.135 --> 21:59.036 [SPEAKER_00]: We both are not supposed to. 21:59.256 --> 22:06.874 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's perfect because you're honestly perfectly illustrating the point of something that is kind of weird to most people who just heard it. 22:07.255 --> 22:07.856 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks Justin. 22:07.916 --> 22:09.460 [SPEAKER_00]: I really say if I really say if you're 22:11.147 --> 22:12.128 [SPEAKER_01]: Most people are not going to get. 22:12.208 --> 22:12.769 [SPEAKER_01]: I get it. 22:12.889 --> 22:13.289 [SPEAKER_01]: I get it. 22:13.929 --> 22:22.937 [SPEAKER_01]: It's rooted in a love of creation the ways that God loves creation and this is going to be true of every amateur side project hobby that you have. 22:23.357 --> 22:23.517 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 22:23.577 --> 22:29.542 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're doing it right people are going to be like, like, I want this going a little hard in the paint here for my friends. 22:29.582 --> 22:32.224 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I present like this one friend's super into bow hunting. 22:32.644 --> 22:35.407 [SPEAKER_01]: what's going to super into suping up his land cruiser. 22:35.907 --> 22:43.954 [SPEAKER_01]: One is really into improving his backyard, some are really into their grass, some are really into cooking golf. 22:44.334 --> 22:44.535 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 22:45.295 --> 22:45.996 [SPEAKER_01]: I could go on. 22:46.256 --> 22:47.417 [SPEAKER_01]: I love all these things. 22:47.577 --> 22:48.518 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I love all these things. 22:48.838 --> 22:50.500 [SPEAKER_01]: But whenever I look at any of these guys, I'm like, 22:51.023 --> 22:56.769 [SPEAKER_01]: They love it a little much, but it's great because it's something in that thing. 22:56.849 --> 22:58.891 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they see the pleasure of God. 22:59.191 --> 23:02.114 [SPEAKER_01]: They see the pleasure of God's creation and they love it. 23:02.294 --> 23:03.375 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm all for it. 23:03.656 --> 23:06.318 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll talk in a minute about how it needs to fit with your family. 23:06.719 --> 23:07.299 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, of course. 23:07.339 --> 23:12.665 [SPEAKER_00]: But yes, just note, not everything is for money and not everything needs to be understood by everybody else. 23:13.045 --> 23:13.786 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, what's yours? 23:15.247 --> 23:15.908 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to get into it. 23:15.928 --> 23:16.649 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me say the third thing. 23:16.710 --> 23:18.432 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, let's say the third thing is the third one. 23:18.472 --> 23:19.013 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we got it. 23:19.334 --> 23:21.197 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're all of this. 23:21.777 --> 23:23.160 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think I want you to hear the sentence. 23:23.981 --> 23:29.650 [SPEAKER_01]: Number three things that keep us from stepping into our hobbies in a world of consumption. 23:31.249 --> 23:35.833 [SPEAKER_01]: Creativity is not only hard, creativity looks odd. 23:37.194 --> 23:37.614 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 23:37.634 --> 23:42.518 [SPEAKER_01]: So being creative the way that God is creative. 23:43.379 --> 23:44.980 [SPEAKER_01]: Before first of all, it's a really important statement. 23:45.661 --> 24:00.453 [SPEAKER_01]: And back to the beginning, we talked about a couple of verses in Genesis 2 might be useful to you here, but specifically, I think it's 27, if I'm not mistaken, God made the trees of the garden to be good for fruit, good for food, and also pleasing to the eye. 24:01.234 --> 24:07.341 [SPEAKER_01]: There is God is aware he invented the idea of form and function and some things are just meant to be pleasing. 24:07.421 --> 24:20.716 [SPEAKER_01]: A Rome is a huge one like the idea that God could nourish us without taste and he could have made us to be able to taste without making us to be able to smell But talk to any Somalia or chef or broke and you know it's important 24:21.496 --> 24:23.838 [SPEAKER_01]: Smell is actually the biggest component of taste. 24:23.858 --> 24:26.040 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a huge way that we encounter the world. 24:27.081 --> 24:28.342 [SPEAKER_01]: And God has created it. 24:28.362 --> 24:29.804 [SPEAKER_01]: He makes things that are beautiful. 24:29.884 --> 24:34.788 [SPEAKER_01]: And in a world that's become bent on economic productivity and consumption. 24:35.969 --> 24:40.693 [SPEAKER_01]: Being someone who's creative is kind of radically different, weird. 24:40.753 --> 24:41.494 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be hard. 24:41.514 --> 24:45.217 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to look odd, but creativity is so important. 24:45.237 --> 24:46.759 [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, this free one here. 24:47.520 --> 25:05.801 [SPEAKER_01]: Think of your use of screens and training your kids in using screens more for creativity than consumption Yes, I love it when my kids pull out a YouTube video to learn a song on guitar Yes, but I know it all of a and I don't let them actually they they're not allowed to pull out just things to scroll on. 25:05.921 --> 25:07.523 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yes, absolutely one uses 25:08.645 --> 25:09.386 [SPEAKER_01]: consuming. 25:09.687 --> 25:09.907 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 25:10.327 --> 25:13.951 [SPEAKER_01]: One uses creativity and your hobbies. 25:14.572 --> 25:14.892 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:14.932 --> 25:16.994 [SPEAKER_01]: You've got to find somewhere in life that you're creative. 25:17.034 --> 25:20.859 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't care how type A, whatever. 25:21.219 --> 25:21.679 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 25:21.840 --> 25:22.741 [SPEAKER_01]: You're a CPA. 25:22.841 --> 25:24.883 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to find your creative hobby. 25:26.008 --> 25:28.289 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I was going to say, I want to talk about what ours are. 25:28.309 --> 25:35.391 [SPEAKER_00]: The CS Lewis says joy is the serious business of heaven and it really is. 25:35.411 --> 25:39.953 [SPEAKER_00]: And this isn't something again like that is so foreign to us. 25:40.233 --> 25:47.995 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you create, I love that how you set it is, it really does look odd in some ways. 25:48.055 --> 25:48.336 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, and 25:50.877 --> 25:54.920 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you have to realize the leaders of the future are those who create not consume. 25:55.601 --> 25:59.163 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you want to lead the future, you have to learn how to create and not consume. 25:59.824 --> 26:03.367 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is something that people listen to spot gets. 26:03.407 --> 26:10.793 [SPEAKER_00]: Most people don't listen to podcasts like this unless they're like, hey, I'd like to actually think through this stuff and like there's already that innate thing in you. 26:12.855 --> 26:15.219 [SPEAKER_00]: creative things for for you. 26:15.259 --> 26:24.292 [SPEAKER_00]: We've kind of talked about this a little like as I've grown up that's changed and I think it's important to note like so I was a musician, a drummer for a very long time. 26:24.312 --> 26:25.574 [SPEAKER_00]: I still obviously play but like 26:26.355 --> 26:28.177 [SPEAKER_00]: That was a huge outlet for creativity. 26:28.997 --> 26:36.384 [SPEAKER_00]: And it scratched a very, really, as I was like, I didn't start planes like eighth grade, but it was a huge part of my life for so long. 26:36.844 --> 26:38.285 [SPEAKER_00]: And I barely do it anymore. 26:38.305 --> 26:41.168 [SPEAKER_00]: To the point where my kids are like, you ever gonna buy a drum set again? 26:41.208 --> 26:42.169 [SPEAKER_00]: Like is this gonna happen? 26:42.209 --> 26:43.370 [SPEAKER_00]: And part of me thinks like, 26:44.147 --> 26:44.467 [SPEAKER_00]: I might. 26:45.048 --> 26:55.017 [SPEAKER_00]: But right now, I'm at a space where like what what is change is like writing and speaking and content like that scratches that creative. 26:55.057 --> 26:55.618 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 26:55.858 --> 26:58.781 [SPEAKER_00]: In a way that I don't feel like this loss of music. 26:58.801 --> 26:59.201 [SPEAKER_01]: So good. 26:59.361 --> 27:00.602 [SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, but what's some worse. 27:01.523 --> 27:09.429 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it may just make one note on creativity before I share my, uh, uh, I had a friend in college who insisted that fiction was a waste of time. 27:09.889 --> 27:14.492 [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, and I was an as an English major, I just went, you know, really hard on arguing with this guy. 27:14.512 --> 27:15.253 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of like, um, 27:16.894 --> 27:32.520 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, some of you out there listening, you don't understand why somebody would see a play or read poetry or read fiction, they're like, you know, what's and I just think that's a sign that you don't understand the fullness of who God is. 27:33.664 --> 27:39.649 [SPEAKER_01]: Creativity is such a key part of what it means to be human and play as a part of that. 27:40.350 --> 27:46.555 [SPEAKER_01]: I read an awesome Chapter we mentioned this guy earlier Jordan Reiner great great modern writer on work. 27:46.575 --> 27:51.559 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes He has a lovely book Called five mere Christians. 27:51.579 --> 27:52.419 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's about a year old. 27:52.459 --> 28:00.146 [SPEAKER_01]: He writes about Christians in their vocation One of them was old Kirk Christianson who is the founder of Legos 28:00.966 --> 28:02.146 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, really cool story. 28:02.166 --> 28:06.328 [SPEAKER_01]: You should go read it, but just so you know, like this guy started in Carpentry. 28:07.568 --> 28:09.829 [SPEAKER_01]: His shot burned down like three times. 28:09.869 --> 28:10.869 [SPEAKER_01]: He lost his wife. 28:11.869 --> 28:21.712 [SPEAKER_01]: But because of a vision from God, he had seen in as young years a factory of like he, him providing for employees a busy factory of people working. 28:22.632 --> 28:28.395 [SPEAKER_01]: And he was bent on doing it and he kept going back even when people were like this is silly You're now making toys not chairs. 28:28.996 --> 28:33.618 [SPEAKER_01]: He was bent on this idea of creating great playthings little toys for kids. 28:33.998 --> 28:48.265 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah his you know the Empire his son Really turned it into what it is now as Lego yeah And I believe still family run by the fourth generation so a lot in this guy's legacy But wow, but all-curt件's and was a devout Christian 28:49.326 --> 28:54.311 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like seriously bent on providing play because of his theology. 28:54.711 --> 29:01.158 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's worth it to go look at people like that and say, what did he understand that I don't because one, he did something amazing. 29:01.258 --> 29:02.179 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, two, great. 29:02.199 --> 29:04.181 [SPEAKER_01]: I wanted the coolest companies in the world. 29:04.501 --> 29:05.001 [SPEAKER_01]: Two dates. 29:05.202 --> 29:07.424 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and three, he just sort of understood that creativity thing. 29:07.444 --> 29:07.824 [SPEAKER_01]: So, any 29:08.685 --> 29:09.226 [SPEAKER_01]: What are mine? 29:09.266 --> 29:10.527 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's some of my examples. 29:10.787 --> 29:14.411 [SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully these will be some practical takeaways for you. 29:14.491 --> 29:16.293 [SPEAKER_01]: So am I giving my examples for you? 29:16.313 --> 29:16.613 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, please. 29:16.633 --> 29:16.793 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 29:17.474 --> 29:19.656 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I love camping. 29:19.676 --> 29:21.558 [SPEAKER_01]: I love camping. 29:21.978 --> 29:24.501 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually knew this, but didn't know that it was the people. 29:24.581 --> 29:26.723 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a deep, it's a deep, deep seeded hobby. 29:26.823 --> 29:28.224 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I love coffee. 29:29.365 --> 29:30.527 [SPEAKER_00]: I love buying. 29:30.607 --> 29:30.867 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 29:32.196 --> 29:36.539 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to make one of buying little accessories to make my coffee different. 29:36.619 --> 29:40.141 [SPEAKER_00]: I love making cocktails before you go to cocktails, let's pause on coffee real quick. 29:41.262 --> 29:42.422 [SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense to me. 29:43.283 --> 29:46.505 [SPEAKER_00]: You would look at me and go, oh, fragrance cool. 29:46.645 --> 29:49.507 [SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate part of it, but then there's a lot and we're like, neat. 29:50.267 --> 29:57.190 [SPEAKER_00]: I see your love obsession, desire for coffee and I'm like, I totally appreciate it up to a line, but I wouldn't ever get it. 29:57.890 --> 30:00.071 [SPEAKER_00]: It's stopped being interesting at good coffee to me. 30:00.191 --> 30:01.511 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 30:02.072 --> 30:04.172 [SPEAKER_00]: But I want to say, here's the thing. 30:05.133 --> 30:05.913 [SPEAKER_00]: Zero judgment. 30:06.453 --> 30:07.974 [SPEAKER_00]: I so get it. 30:08.174 --> 30:09.394 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just not the same thing. 30:09.414 --> 30:13.036 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like I love getting into every single nuance when you love a thing. 30:13.556 --> 30:18.318 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I think it's just highlighting the point of what we said earlier, which is so important, that 30:18.978 --> 30:22.179 [SPEAKER_00]: if you're really into it some people aren't going to understand it and that's okay. 30:22.219 --> 30:22.559 [SPEAKER_00]: That's right. 30:22.839 --> 30:23.580 [SPEAKER_00]: So you got you got that. 30:23.600 --> 30:24.120 [SPEAKER_00]: You got coffee. 30:24.140 --> 30:25.380 [SPEAKER_00]: You've got I love cocktail. 30:25.400 --> 30:26.280 [SPEAKER_01]: I love making cocktails. 30:26.901 --> 30:27.181 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 30:28.381 --> 30:30.322 [SPEAKER_01]: I love making bread. 30:30.422 --> 30:37.904 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't do it as much as I used to, but I think it is so fun because it's tactile to make sourdough bread. 30:38.304 --> 30:40.505 [SPEAKER_01]: I also this is one of the things we we didn't know about each other when we. 30:40.845 --> 30:45.007 [SPEAKER_01]: met and started this, but we both used to play the drums, both still play the drums and something like that. 30:45.027 --> 30:46.388 [SPEAKER_01]: Music is super important to me. 30:47.208 --> 30:48.609 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a piano in our living room. 30:48.909 --> 30:52.191 [SPEAKER_01]: There's guitars hanging above it, and there's an electronic drum set upstairs. 30:52.231 --> 30:54.172 [SPEAKER_01]: There's this little cajon that you can sit on. 30:54.972 --> 31:06.037 [SPEAKER_01]: The idea that you might pick up a guitar and play a song and sing mediocre along with it is I think the realm of the amateur to say, 31:07.198 --> 31:07.919 [SPEAKER_01]: imitate this song. 31:07.959 --> 31:09.640 [SPEAKER_01]: I can jamming with my kids. 31:09.660 --> 31:11.701 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll talk about this in a minute how your kids meet you. 31:11.721 --> 31:12.622 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was like with that. 31:12.662 --> 31:13.182 [SPEAKER_01]: So fun. 31:13.262 --> 31:19.947 [SPEAKER_01]: And then last one, I would say, you know, working out and writing are too huge hobbies for me. 31:20.147 --> 31:20.407 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 31:20.708 --> 31:23.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Places where, and I'd say this one, you know, really important. 31:24.430 --> 31:33.617 [SPEAKER_01]: Like working out is as much of a physical discipline as it is an amateur hobby, because I'm like, I feel the pleasure of God when I'm like just moving my body, 31:33.957 --> 31:34.157 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 31:34.998 --> 31:38.219 [SPEAKER_01]: You can stay healthy in many different ways. 31:39.040 --> 31:39.240 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 31:39.260 --> 31:42.302 [SPEAKER_01]: But I choose a form that is very kind of like hard in the paint. 31:42.402 --> 31:43.682 [SPEAKER_01]: I like crossfit. 31:43.743 --> 31:44.823 [SPEAKER_01]: I like getting into it. 31:44.843 --> 31:45.664 [SPEAKER_01]: I like doing other people. 31:45.684 --> 31:47.885 [SPEAKER_00]: We're even the skills that are required to do it. 31:47.905 --> 31:48.685 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a goal. 31:48.745 --> 31:52.767 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, there's lots of things in crossfit that people like that's not necessary to be healthy. 31:52.808 --> 31:53.708 [SPEAKER_01]: And we're like, we know. 31:53.728 --> 31:54.128 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 31:54.368 --> 31:55.629 [SPEAKER_01]: These are cocktail party tricks. 31:55.789 --> 31:57.530 [SPEAKER_01]: Because we're sort of into the amateur world. 31:57.550 --> 31:58.611 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not actually keeping pull up. 31:58.631 --> 31:59.431 [SPEAKER_00]: What are you talking about? 31:59.451 --> 31:59.671 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 32:00.112 --> 32:00.352 [SPEAKER_01]: And what? 32:01.072 --> 32:09.138 [SPEAKER_01]: But here's where I would, I would just give three practical points that wrap all of these, I hopefully make these applicable to you. 32:09.358 --> 32:09.599 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 32:10.599 --> 32:13.181 [SPEAKER_01]: One, these make my work worth it. 32:14.302 --> 32:26.531 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I work hard because I'm so excited to take my boys on a camping trip or I make coffee at 10 a.m. every morning in the chemics and I walk around my office and I offer like who wants a cup of good coffee? 32:26.571 --> 32:29.153 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so maybe people say no, sometimes we're like let me try that coffee 32:31.155 --> 32:37.122 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I make music in the evening occasionally with my kids, it brings us great joy. 32:37.702 --> 32:39.124 [SPEAKER_01]: I make a cocktail in the weekends. 32:39.344 --> 32:41.686 [SPEAKER_01]: I work out almost every day to end work. 32:42.107 --> 32:43.008 [SPEAKER_01]: And these things... 32:44.557 --> 32:51.278 [SPEAKER_01]: had my life of vocation and make rest out of what is otherwise a lot of work. 32:51.819 --> 32:54.719 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we've touched on Sabbath in and out a lot here. 32:54.839 --> 32:57.240 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I'll just touch on it again. 32:58.020 --> 33:00.200 [SPEAKER_01]: One of my favorite quotes we've mentioned it before. 33:00.220 --> 33:02.021 [SPEAKER_01]: I think at least on season one, we talked about it. 33:02.101 --> 33:07.922 [SPEAKER_01]: Abraham Heschel, those who work with their hands should Sabbath with their mind. 33:08.102 --> 33:08.562 [SPEAKER_01]: Love that. 33:08.662 --> 33:11.363 [SPEAKER_01]: And those who work with their mind should Sabbath with their hands. 33:12.023 --> 33:27.937 [SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that's true of all these things is they're very tactile because loyering is very in your head when things are true about all these things is they're kind of for you you're saying yeah yeah about all my hobbies sorry yeah you're they're out of my head and into the body they're very physical and they're out of the 33:28.017 --> 33:52.308 [SPEAKER_01]: the linear logical realm of thinking into the creative realm of thinking and that sort of tactile nature of it, that sort of creator nature of it allows me to enter a spirit of Sabbath, not just on Sundays when I am really focusing on Sabbath, but also like on week nights when I'm like, I want to rest by picking up a guitar, I want to rest by buying a new piece of camping gear and planning our next trip. 33:52.568 --> 33:52.848 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 33:52.968 --> 34:01.974 [SPEAKER_01]: And the last thing I know about these just for your practical point is to, you know, all of these have been tailored to fit with my family. 34:02.575 --> 34:13.382 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a way to be in a camping where you're like, so I want to do a solo camping trip like a climb in Norway and sleep alone for three weeks and like, well, well, you've got to four-year-olds. 34:13.422 --> 34:14.083 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 34:14.303 --> 34:17.485 [SPEAKER_00]: But to say, it's not that you can't plan that in, but that can't be everything. 34:17.625 --> 34:17.865 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 34:17.945 --> 34:21.448 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just, I would caution people that's every single hobby. 34:22.208 --> 34:25.569 [SPEAKER_01]: can be taken to an extreme, and it becomes anti-family. 34:25.789 --> 34:27.989 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, yes, good word. 34:28.309 --> 34:33.791 [SPEAKER_01]: Like my coffee habit could be anti-family, because I'm like, I'll never drink this. 34:33.831 --> 34:37.492 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll only do this and thus it complicates family life and you know, truth. 34:37.692 --> 34:38.412 [SPEAKER_01]: This is all possible. 34:38.432 --> 34:43.533 [SPEAKER_01]: You could have cocktails way too much and become what we call an alcoholic instead of a lover of creation, and that's very, very bad. 34:43.833 --> 34:44.053 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 34:44.093 --> 34:49.814 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, all of these things can be taken to an extreme, but to think about whatever hobby it is, whatever your hobby is, 34:54.115 --> 34:56.056 [SPEAKER_01]: Make, find something that can be restful. 34:56.356 --> 35:01.797 [SPEAKER_01]: I suggest find something that can be tactile, particularly if you're a mine worker, and find something that pulls out that creative part of you. 35:02.437 --> 35:02.857 [SPEAKER_00]: What are yours? 35:04.097 --> 35:11.839 [SPEAKER_00]: My name's one, for your sister's big, but I mean, there's only so much, that's just more of an enjoyment piece of part of life. 35:13.999 --> 35:18.000 [SPEAKER_00]: I was just thinking through, you were talking about the resting piece, like that, 35:19.834 --> 35:20.414 [SPEAKER_00]: the Sabbath. 35:20.434 --> 35:27.976 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember when I was in, I lived in Los Angeles when I remember reading that book, Abraham Heschel's book and reading that detail. 35:28.416 --> 35:33.777 [SPEAKER_00]: This was a time when it was like a lot of legalism was going around or legalism in the sense of how a Sabbath should look. 35:34.497 --> 35:39.558 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, Sabbath means like, don't work at all and you're like, well, but like, I gotta do stuff. 35:39.578 --> 35:40.738 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I do the work of rest. 35:40.858 --> 35:41.439 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 35:41.519 --> 35:47.480 [SPEAKER_00]: So, but all I'll say is that, you know, it's just on that note, what I've noticed, I'm saying this for myself. 35:48.660 --> 35:52.985 [SPEAKER_00]: Most men, what most men call rest is actually numbing out. 35:54.166 --> 35:55.268 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's good to name. 35:55.668 --> 35:59.172 [SPEAKER_01]: Just to say, note that none of these hobbies are like netflix binging. 35:59.402 --> 36:20.170 [SPEAKER_00]: No, but just to say like, or scroll, you got to identify and just name where where you're not actually resting, you're just numbing out, and why I say that is because you'll just be always exhausted if you're numbing outside of actually resting, actual rest is something that gives you life, it's you slowing down, it's just connecting from the pressures of all that. 36:21.711 --> 36:25.052 [SPEAKER_00]: put that there like you we have to just differentiate. 36:25.632 --> 36:26.352 [SPEAKER_00]: What is numbing? 36:26.492 --> 36:27.152 [SPEAKER_00]: What is resting? 36:27.212 --> 36:29.132 [SPEAKER_00]: They're different and they kind of seem similar but they're not. 36:29.152 --> 36:30.453 [SPEAKER_00]: Can I just quickly? 36:30.753 --> 36:31.613 [SPEAKER_00]: Please. 36:32.113 --> 36:41.655 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the best use of our free time, our amateur life, our hobbies pushes into these all happen to start with see creativity, community, maybe competition. 36:41.795 --> 36:42.035 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 36:42.075 --> 36:42.295 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 36:42.815 --> 36:43.995 [SPEAKER_01]: You can love sports. 36:44.235 --> 36:44.875 [SPEAKER_01]: I love sports. 36:45.395 --> 36:46.255 [SPEAKER_01]: Love athleticism. 36:47.016 --> 36:47.896 [SPEAKER_01]: My voice play a lot of it. 36:47.916 --> 36:48.476 [SPEAKER_01]: We do a lot of it. 36:49.416 --> 37:01.503 [SPEAKER_01]: But, sitting around all Sunday afternoon and constantly watching football, for example, is probably not restful in the richest meaning of the word. 37:01.983 --> 37:02.204 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure. 37:02.684 --> 37:04.285 [SPEAKER_01]: Watching a game with your family is great. 37:04.525 --> 37:12.670 [SPEAKER_01]: But I would be aware of hobbies that end up with you on the couch in front of a TV alone for long periods of time. 37:12.950 --> 37:13.370 [SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely. 37:13.390 --> 37:14.951 [SPEAKER_01]: Probably doing something more like numbing out. 37:15.391 --> 37:17.933 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's and maybe it starts as a hobby, but it moves to that. 37:18.013 --> 37:19.714 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so just be wary. 37:19.774 --> 37:25.277 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I just all this like you just said like any of these could be done to an extreme and be like you could work out too much. 37:25.297 --> 37:26.998 [SPEAKER_00]: You could sign up for too many races. 37:27.038 --> 37:28.939 [SPEAKER_00]: You could any of this is in balance. 37:28.979 --> 37:31.101 [SPEAKER_00]: But so I just want to name that. 37:31.161 --> 37:35.103 [SPEAKER_00]: I think a couple of other ones like I love son and coal plunges. 37:35.323 --> 37:36.384 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love it. 37:36.524 --> 37:36.884 [SPEAKER_00]: I love it. 37:37.024 --> 37:37.445 [SPEAKER_00]: I just love them. 37:37.605 --> 37:39.066 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're refreshing my body, my soul. 37:39.086 --> 37:40.768 [SPEAKER_00]: I find the forgiveness of it. 37:40.808 --> 37:41.369 [SPEAKER_00]: It's beautiful. 37:41.869 --> 37:42.430 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. 37:42.810 --> 37:43.691 [SPEAKER_00]: I also love cigars. 37:43.751 --> 37:45.533 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, please feel free to hate if you want. 37:45.573 --> 37:46.594 [SPEAKER_00]: But I love cigars. 37:46.634 --> 37:47.615 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the process. 37:47.635 --> 37:48.616 [SPEAKER_00]: I love understanding. 37:48.697 --> 37:52.461 [SPEAKER_00]: I love it's something that I love to do with friends. 37:52.501 --> 37:55.964 [SPEAKER_00]: It's something that I connect with God in and obviously there's a balance from it. 37:56.024 --> 37:58.167 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also like really enjoy 37:59.168 --> 38:12.300 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, the whole experience around it for my birthday, I just turned 40 this last year, I've been my good friend, he got me this lighter and it has, it's the nicest lighter cover and it's engraved and it's like this, 38:13.961 --> 38:21.025 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just really cool priest with this prayer on it, and it's like one of those letters that you keep for your life, like you pass it on to your kids. 38:21.045 --> 38:23.527 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the coolest thing. 38:23.827 --> 38:24.868 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just meaningful. 38:24.888 --> 38:26.529 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all these like very tactile things. 38:26.629 --> 38:29.951 [SPEAKER_00]: And so those are some of the, I'd say those are some of the more like surface level. 38:30.291 --> 38:33.553 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of the two, I just want to throw my support behind the cigar one. 38:33.873 --> 38:38.476 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, um, I know we got tons of people who have convictions otherwise, and I respect them. 38:38.636 --> 38:39.096 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I do too. 38:39.156 --> 38:41.637 [SPEAKER_01]: But I would just say half of half of my good friends, 38:43.943 --> 38:52.447 [SPEAKER_01]: use cigars or tobacco, moderately, and in service of great conversation or contemplation. 38:52.967 --> 38:55.028 [SPEAKER_01]: Both, most people in history have. 38:55.629 --> 38:57.190 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of your favorite writers have. 38:57.430 --> 38:57.770 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 38:58.110 --> 38:59.391 [SPEAKER_00]: All your favorite Christian writers. 38:59.691 --> 39:00.311 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's true. 39:00.331 --> 39:00.871 [SPEAKER_00]: It leaves mind. 39:00.991 --> 39:01.252 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 39:01.392 --> 39:04.093 [SPEAKER_01]: See us, Louis, Tolkien, G.K. Chesterton. 39:04.473 --> 39:09.656 [SPEAKER_01]: There's just a trimbrific history of what we would honestly 39:13.137 --> 39:20.921 [SPEAKER_01]: that prevent a man from larger ones because he uses them in service of creativity, contemplation, community. 39:21.381 --> 39:24.743 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, yeah, I do not support anybody drinking too much. 39:24.863 --> 39:27.064 [SPEAKER_01]: I do not support anybody smoking too much. 39:27.525 --> 39:28.645 [SPEAKER_01]: But I support greed. 39:28.985 --> 39:34.408 [SPEAKER_01]: Anybody who wants to do these things in moderation because that's where you find the pleasure of God in them. 39:34.508 --> 39:36.548 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, and this is something that I enjoy. 39:36.568 --> 39:45.250 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't need anyone else to enjoy it, but I will say this, like those two seas are contemplation or community, like those are real things. 39:45.450 --> 39:54.172 [SPEAKER_00]: And to say that, although, I would say something else that's just a unique thing to, again, it's a little bit of what you were talking about. 39:54.192 --> 39:59.973 [SPEAKER_00]: I love as a hobby, I love learning the art of communication. 40:01.013 --> 40:25.378 [SPEAKER_00]: So speaking, like I love writing, that's part of it, but I actually really love the craft of learning how to communicate and what I mean is like how do you speak how do you speak in a way that's helpful how do you speak in a way that helps people that psychologically connects things so people don't have to do the heavy lifting oh that's so good and so the craft of that which I don't even actually really talk about anywhere but it's also then again a part of my profession so it's a weird overlap 40:26.058 --> 40:35.203 [SPEAKER_00]: but I also use it as a way to like what people don't know is like when I go to speak places, it's internally this game for me in a good way. 40:35.223 --> 40:37.385 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a hobby to go, what do they need? 40:37.945 --> 40:41.947 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to meet with them and find out what is it that they want to like. 40:42.668 --> 40:43.709 [SPEAKER_00]: What are they trying to accomplish? 40:43.749 --> 40:53.634 [SPEAKER_00]: How can I craft what like hopefully bring what God's given me my perspective what they're asking me to come do and their culture of moment and put it together in a way that's 40:54.775 --> 40:58.619 [SPEAKER_00]: And that to me, that is actually really fun. 40:58.679 --> 41:02.983 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a hobby that kind of falls in the category of work as well, which I love. 41:03.443 --> 41:12.772 [SPEAKER_00]: But even this year, I'm not even going to say where, but there's a handful of places that I've been praying into being able to speak that some invitations have come in this year that are for me a big deal. 41:13.412 --> 41:18.018 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm already mentally not overwhelmed by it or stressed. 41:18.038 --> 41:23.004 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like excited because it's like, oh, this is like something I love to figure out how to do it. 41:23.285 --> 41:27.170 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you, you know, speak to a room that's this big or this small wherever it's at. 41:28.411 --> 41:29.691 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's actually a hobby that I love. 41:29.711 --> 41:30.652 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't talk about a lot either. 41:30.812 --> 41:40.955 [SPEAKER_01]: I liked that overlaps with your paid vocation because I do think probably everybody would do well to think about this as kind of overlapping circles. 41:41.295 --> 41:46.437 [SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be parts of your work that you just don't love and are grind great grind it out. 41:47.197 --> 41:49.178 [SPEAKER_01]: There's sanctification in that you're providing for your family. 41:49.198 --> 41:53.239 [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be parts of your life that you just love and they don't produce anything. 41:53.419 --> 41:53.659 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 41:53.799 --> 41:55.280 [SPEAKER_01]: This episode is in service to that. 41:55.360 --> 41:57.141 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but probably done rightly. 41:57.161 --> 42:04.104 [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be parts of those circles that overlap, where you find the arch of your work really interesting. 42:04.644 --> 42:06.305 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is the part you love leaning into. 42:06.325 --> 42:08.486 [SPEAKER_01]: And there are other parts that you don't like, but you just love this part. 42:08.526 --> 42:08.986 [SPEAKER_01]: Wonderful. 42:09.166 --> 42:09.386 [SPEAKER_01]: Wonderful. 42:09.406 --> 42:09.686 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 42:09.866 --> 42:14.028 [SPEAKER_01]: And some of your hobbies might come into the realm of making you some money or being productive and useful. 42:14.048 --> 42:14.768 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a wonderful. 42:14.928 --> 42:18.250 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think we're living well when we're experiencing all three of those. 42:18.630 --> 42:19.810 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll just do the same one thing. 42:19.870 --> 42:20.410 [SPEAKER_00]: There's this idea. 42:20.430 --> 42:21.231 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you've heard of it. 42:21.271 --> 42:21.911 [SPEAKER_00]: We're good. 42:22.031 --> 42:22.991 [SPEAKER_00]: But pleasure stacking. 42:23.011 --> 42:23.851 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you heard of this before? 42:24.271 --> 42:25.532 [SPEAKER_01]: That sounds a little bit. 42:25.712 --> 42:27.212 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not in any way. 42:27.372 --> 42:29.172 [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually a practice desert. 42:29.192 --> 42:30.453 [SPEAKER_00]: Mother's and Father's talked about this idea. 42:30.813 --> 42:41.335 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's, um, but it's the idea where you actually like even when you get closer to Sabbath as an idea that you save things for that day that you love and you stack them on top of each other. 42:41.375 --> 42:44.136 [SPEAKER_00]: So it would be like Justin goes on to a workout. 42:44.636 --> 42:51.282 [SPEAKER_00]: And then from that work out, he goes to play songs and music with his kids and then he goes and makes a cocktail that night. 42:51.822 --> 42:58.128 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're doing the things that you love and you're kind of stacking them into one day as like, Oh, this is this is intuitive to me. 42:58.208 --> 42:59.649 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, what I do on a weekend. 43:00.250 --> 43:02.111 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, but naming is important. 43:02.131 --> 43:05.954 [SPEAKER_00]: So like for me, maybe you look like I'm smoking a cigar while speaking and wearing great fragrance. 43:06.034 --> 43:06.475 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 43:06.855 --> 43:19.659 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to join you that would be a really interesting thing, but no, it's to say like that that's that's an important part of this to like find your things. 43:19.739 --> 43:24.160 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, so I just want to I want to send us out here because we have three things I think. 43:24.940 --> 43:37.069 [SPEAKER_01]: hobbies, amateur vocations done rightly, they connect you to God, they connect you to friends and they will actually connect you to your family. 43:38.050 --> 43:44.475 [SPEAKER_01]: And these things intertwine to begin a feeling of legacy, which is what we're going to tackle in the next episode. 43:44.535 --> 43:45.536 [SPEAKER_01]: So just a teaser. 43:46.256 --> 43:48.698 [SPEAKER_01]: You broke you did very well explaining how good hobby. 43:49.038 --> 43:52.581 [SPEAKER_01]: You're an infraegment, sort of like you feel the pleasure of God, you're connected to a part of him. 43:53.342 --> 43:56.825 [SPEAKER_01]: Your hobbies take them seriously because you'll find something spiritual in them. 43:57.045 --> 43:57.806 [SPEAKER_01]: Big time. 43:58.046 --> 44:01.909 [SPEAKER_01]: Number two, this is where a lot of your life will create community. 44:02.350 --> 44:04.592 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, most of my friends are not lawyers and writers. 44:04.852 --> 44:05.833 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that's my vocation. 44:06.153 --> 44:08.355 [SPEAKER_01]: I do have great community in my office. 44:08.375 --> 44:09.736 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got to love the people that have voted legal. 44:09.776 --> 44:10.237 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so fun. 44:10.617 --> 44:11.097 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 44:11.238 --> 44:14.320 [SPEAKER_01]: But most of my friends are overlapping in my hobbies. 44:14.480 --> 44:17.742 [SPEAKER_01]: I get most of my great friends now in the in the gym. 44:18.243 --> 44:26.088 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, or doing, you know, something fun with my historic friends and then meeting a new in communities and amateur hobbies. 44:26.829 --> 44:29.791 [SPEAKER_01]: You will find friendship there, which is so important. 44:29.911 --> 44:30.372 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way. 44:31.492 --> 44:32.593 [SPEAKER_00]: little free piece of advice. 44:33.274 --> 44:34.895 [SPEAKER_01]: It's probably the only place you'll find evangelism. 44:36.436 --> 44:42.379 [SPEAKER_01]: Lots of you, if you're like me, this is the place where you'll meet non-believers where you share the same love as them. 44:42.980 --> 44:46.062 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you can develop a friendship to allow you to share more of your love. 44:46.922 --> 44:48.323 [SPEAKER_01]: And then this one is super important. 44:48.624 --> 44:50.745 [SPEAKER_01]: It connects you to family. 44:51.545 --> 44:56.769 [SPEAKER_01]: Most of you know your fathers for better if you knew them through one of their hobbies. 44:57.458 --> 45:02.321 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, most of your, you knew your father's for worse if you only knew him through his job. 45:02.761 --> 45:12.326 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you to your kids, oh, hard just the guy who goes really hard as a banker, that's risky, that's then nice. 45:13.006 --> 45:16.068 [SPEAKER_01]: But if you're the banker who wrote poetry, 45:17.029 --> 45:17.969 [SPEAKER_01]: And they remember that. 45:18.009 --> 45:18.470 [SPEAKER_01]: That's T.S. 45:18.490 --> 45:19.050 [SPEAKER_01]: Eliot, by the way. 45:19.130 --> 45:20.271 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, of our famous poets. 45:20.451 --> 45:21.692 [SPEAKER_01]: He was a banker. 45:21.712 --> 45:22.513 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 45:23.414 --> 45:32.121 [SPEAKER_01]: Then you're in the realm where your family sees you as a more full man, a more rounded man, as a more spiritual man, and is a more accessible man. 45:32.751 --> 45:52.056 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because they're like, oh, I like camping too and I don't really understand investment banking, but I love kayaking with you dad and that that Where if you are putting your hobbies on display well if they're fitting with your family well Your kids are going to hang out with you and them and that becomes one of the greatest pleasures you find this with your son, right? 45:52.436 --> 45:53.296 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh big time your daughters. 45:53.536 --> 45:58.357 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh big time We the three we we talked about really quick those were really great. 45:58.377 --> 46:00.037 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I don't even know if we plan those 46:03.659 --> 46:07.540 [SPEAKER_00]: Three things we did talk about though, just like, hey, these are going to be very fast. 46:07.580 --> 46:08.340 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be in the show notes. 46:08.981 --> 46:10.321 [SPEAKER_00]: Basically, this week, what to do. 46:10.461 --> 46:11.142 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll remember what I said. 46:11.482 --> 46:12.702 [SPEAKER_00]: Reclaim one useless thing. 46:13.042 --> 46:15.263 [SPEAKER_00]: There's one useless thing that you have going on. 46:15.403 --> 46:16.284 [SPEAKER_00]: Reclaim it for fun. 46:16.864 --> 46:19.745 [SPEAKER_00]: Second, and this is really important, schedule play like responsibility. 46:19.945 --> 46:20.886 [SPEAKER_00]: Put in your calendar. 46:21.826 --> 46:22.146 [SPEAKER_00]: play. 46:22.566 --> 46:27.007 [SPEAKER_00]: Make it an hour or two or more schedule play like it's a responsibility. 46:27.807 --> 46:30.348 [SPEAKER_00]: If not, it won't happen and then three invite your kids into it. 46:30.548 --> 46:32.428 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that challenging to have fun with your kids. 46:32.749 --> 46:33.909 [SPEAKER_00]: You just gotta make space for it. 46:34.329 --> 46:35.289 [SPEAKER_00]: And so this week, try that. 46:35.369 --> 46:39.950 [SPEAKER_00]: Reclaim one youth useless thing, schedule play like it's your responsibility and invite your kids into it. 46:40.370 --> 46:42.011 [SPEAKER_00]: And then find your thing. 46:42.191 --> 46:46.572 [SPEAKER_00]: This is such a great gift that God's given us and you will be a joyful person if you do. 46:46.612 --> 46:46.952 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, 46:48.132 --> 46:58.921 [SPEAKER_01]: To think that this is our responsibility as a gift from God to experience a serious business of joy Go play, go schedule it, go schedule time for that hobby See you next week guys next week