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[SPEAKER_12]: from Sinatra, Swing to Brando State.
[SPEAKER_12]: Maryland's grace to JFK's age.
[SPEAKER_13]: It's Johnny Russo-Hollywood's own.
[SPEAKER_13]: Virginia Raymond's secrets are shown.
[SPEAKER_04]: Welcome, everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's time for another Hollywood Godfather podcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: And let me introduce my co-host, Jeannie Raymond.
[SPEAKER_16]: Hello, everyone.
[SPEAKER_16]: Thanks for listening.
[SPEAKER_16]: We're really excited about today's show.
[SPEAKER_04]: So today's show is such a tribute to a great woman.
[SPEAKER_04]: I can't believe she's passed for 60 years.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mark's sure and I, which was a joining us in a few minutes,
[SPEAKER_04]: a lot of Robert who's made this all happen for us.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then dedicating, well, I'm going to tell you all that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let them tell you.
[SPEAKER_04]: But Mark, how long are you my friend?
[SPEAKER_15]: Well, good.
[SPEAKER_15]: And thank you having me on the show again.
[SPEAKER_15]: I really appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_15]: See you on, thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Would you please introduce Robert Reddiff's full credentials?
[SPEAKER_04]: So what it knows, the dignitary we have tonight, please.
[SPEAKER_15]: We share doing these all dressed up there.
[SPEAKER_15]: He looks terrific.
[SPEAKER_15]: Bob Holden is somebody that I didn't know too much about until maybe Bob can correct me but maybe a year or so ago, he got in touch with me and told me that he had, I believe as I recall, his wife had given him a book or two of mine, especially the best seller of the report of a new too much and he went to Florida, had some time away from his busy schedule as a New York City Councilman and read one of the books I believe on the beach.
[SPEAKER_15]: As he explained to me in a telephone call, he really felt like the Dorothy Kilgown had not gotten the fair shake when she died and we talked a lot about that and then he was a very instrumental in our putting together, I put together quite an evidence report to be submitted to D.A.
[SPEAKER_15]: Bragg and the NYPD to try to see if we could get an investigation of her death because
[SPEAKER_15]: And unfortunately, for a lot of reasons that we'd take a long time to talk about that did not occur.
[SPEAKER_15]: Bob Bob said it at the time I met him, and I was so impressed with his credentials as a New York City Councilman, all of the things that he'd accomplished and all of that.
[SPEAKER_15]: I felt like it was a real honor to even know him, but he mentioned to me that he had the idea of going ahead and trying to,
[SPEAKER_15]: in honor of Dorothy.
[SPEAKER_15]: And Johnny, you know how long I've been involved with trying to get respect for Dorothy Kilgallon and get a tribute to her and all that.
[SPEAKER_15]: So it really warmed my heart when he told me that.
[SPEAKER_15]: But I did hear from him, you were very busy in all that.
[SPEAKER_15]: And so I don't know, I guess, was maybe a month or so ago or whatever he sent me an email that brought tears to my eyes because he's head, he had set up
[SPEAKER_15]: uh... a uh... a uh... a uh... co-naming of the street uh... uh... uh... the Dorothy lived at forty five east sixty eight street uh... right near Madison Avenue there and in his e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m-e-m
[SPEAKER_15]: And that just blew me away because I was so so excited about the fact that finally she would get some some tributes for this remarkable woman that you and I have discussed more in the past on your podcast so Bob can kind of take it from there.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the street co-naming has to be voted on by the New York City Council.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do a lot of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do it usually for somebody that's contributed to the greater good in their neighborhoods or on a particular street.
[SPEAKER_02]: Many times we do
[SPEAKER_02]: fallen heroes like firefighters or police officers who have, you know, paid the ultimate sacrifice and so forth than or soldiers, but this was
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, that's the least we can do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Her memory, many people don't know who she was, many people don't know her background.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was fortunate enough to have lived in the 50s.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, what's my line?
[SPEAKER_02]: I always thought she was the smartest.
[SPEAKER_02]: She always, she most, I think, I don't know what the numbers were, but she almost solved the, you know, the, what's my line puzzles?
[SPEAKER_02]: on a regular basis or she was right in there, very, very smart and you could tell she was smart.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I didn't know anything about her background as a columnist as a reporter.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's thanks to Mark, because like I said, like he said, my wife bought me the book.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had heard a podcast, the, the tail end of a podcast from Frank Morano on Radio W ABC in New
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh yeah, and John Casabatini's their station.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, and I was listening to it and caught the tail end.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just got his name, Mark Shaw.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I told my wife, boy, I got to get this book.
[SPEAKER_02]: I told her in the morning and then she got it for me for either my birthday or a Christmas wherever it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I read it like Mark said, I read it in the week.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was down in Florida on the beach during Christmas week.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw the name of a reporter that had worked with Mark Sue Edelman from the New York Post in New York City.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I said, I know Sue, I have a phone number, I have a cell phone, so when I get back to New York,
[SPEAKER_02]: I waited a few days and I called her and she goes, oh, yeah, I could put you in touch with Mark Shaw and the rest is history.
[SPEAKER_02]: I started and I spoke to Mark, Mark told me what he had done with Dorothy, all the investigations that he tried to do and I said, well, maybe I could take a shot at this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we did get Alvin Bragg's office.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was very pleased that they put to cold case attorneys on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they actually read Mark Shaw's book, the reporter that knew too much.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they spent the whole weekend reading it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was very impressed.
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, oh, we're going to get somewhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I also went to the cold case unit of the NYPD.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they said, they would do something.
[SPEAKER_02]: they said they came back and said well who do we prosecute all the people are gone i know that's a problem all the players are gone so if we're going to go through this investigation we need to bring it to an end and you know charge somebody but who do we charge and i said well more importantly i said she she died you know it was very mysterious the circumstances
[SPEAKER_02]: And in Mark's book, he several books lay it out very clearly.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if you read them and you connect all the dots, he, this was great, great evidence.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you could see it's plausible that the mob was very, very big in New York City and actually in the country.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you could see that
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, she was on to the JFK assassination.
[SPEAKER_02]: She was, she interviewed Jack Ruby and Mark.
[SPEAKER_04]: You can get so funny.
[SPEAKER_04]: All the people you're talking about at the time.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was around them because like Mark, I was so interested because of the comparison of Malcolm Monroe's death.
[SPEAKER_04]: and hers was the same, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And which is funny, mocks and Claire, her hairdresser, who found her body, was very close to me, because I was his shampoo boy when they worked at Lily Dashet, because I was on the streets in New York, and the tune-offers have found me at 15.
[SPEAKER_04]: And luckily for me, him and Kenneth, who worked that little E. D. She picked me because I was good looking kid and I was the shampoo boy there.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I was hearing about this all the time.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, you know, my relationship with Marilyn for the last five years of her life.
[SPEAKER_04]: She died the same way.
[SPEAKER_04]: And most people don't know it, but we went really into the case.
[SPEAKER_04]: And she died of an aneurysm, and it was done in the same area in the groin through a Ethiopian organ, and they pumped oxygen in as they did Dorothy.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you'll never get to trace it, because it's oxygen.
[SPEAKER_15]: Are you and I, you know, I've talked about this over the years.
[SPEAKER_15]: Of course, we differ a little bit in the cause of death for Dorothy.
[SPEAKER_15]: But both of them were, and then a little bit back to Bob for a second.
[SPEAKER_15]: But one of the things that that is similar between the two, Marilyn was going to go ahead and divulge some of the pillow talk secrets that she got in from JFK and RFK.
[SPEAKER_15]: She said she was going to go to the media and you can't say that and the Kennedy's couldn't let her get away with it.
[SPEAKER_15]: And she got close to
[SPEAKER_15]: showing that Carlos Marcelo the New Orleans Don who had the greatest strongest motive to have killed JFK was behind the killing of JFK because he wanted Bobby Kennedy powerless.
[SPEAKER_15]: So there is definite connection there and I prove that in the book called collateral damage.
[SPEAKER_15]: Bob, I think he would be interested in knowing what made you feel like that Dorothy didn't get the investigation that she should have when she died.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, because of all the things that you laid out in the book that she was, she had an extensive JFK file, like you said, you mentioned that she interviewed Jack Ruby twice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, Melvin Belli was the attorney for Jack Ruby.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you look at this whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, I witnessed live on TV, like many like millions of other people.
[SPEAKER_02]: The assassination or the dishooting of Lee Harvey Oswell by Jack Ruby.
[SPEAKER_02]: That even looked like a mob rub out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that was like, they were, they were, you know, shutting him up.
[SPEAKER_02]: And at 12 years old, I was 12 years old when JFK was assassinated.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was so traumatic on most of us.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, because I went to Catholic school, I had the nuns, we were pro-Canity because he was the first Catholic president.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he was our guy and handsome, his wife was beautiful.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was Camelot all over again.
[SPEAKER_02]: And here we are,
[SPEAKER_02]: And he was taken out, and you could see it, but especially, you know, Lee Harvey Oswell being killed the way he was killed, that reasonable.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then of course, Jack Ruby with mob ties.
[SPEAKER_04]: Jack Ruby was sent there by Frank Estello.
[SPEAKER_04]: Jack Ruby worked for Castello in Texas, running all the slot machines in the women.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they convinced him, go there, we'll get you down there to kill Lee Harvey Oswell and you become a hero.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but Mark covers by the way in his books and Mark you could jump in here.
[SPEAKER_02]: He covers the trial of Jack Ruby and how it was ridiculous and Melvin Deli.
[SPEAKER_02]: had his orders apparently.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is according to the books, but it's plausible.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he lays out Mark Lacer out very nicely.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've read a few books now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just got at his latest.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I can't wait to read that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But
[SPEAKER_02]: this, this reeks and nobody very few people that lived and watched the kind of the assassination and watched ever, you know, Jack Ruby, shoot Lee Harvey Oswell, very few people believe that Lee Harvey Oswell was the lone assassin.
[SPEAKER_04]: He wasn't, in fact, what my closest friends, mob had it, there was six shooters there, plus Linda main Johnson, plus the Texas range is, there was no way JFK was leaving that mall that day, no way.
[SPEAKER_15]: Well, the most interesting thing here I think, and we can relate it to what's going to happen on November 8th is that I had an advantage when I started looking into the JFK assassination because I found out about Dorothy Kilgown.
[SPEAKER_15]: until I was completing a biography of Melvin Belli.
[SPEAKER_15]: And I started learning about all his mob connections and everything else like that.
[SPEAKER_15]: And I'll never forget the one thing, you guys are just like me.
[SPEAKER_15]: When you hear something that you just hit you in the head and you've got to do something about it, that happened when a associate of Belli said, well, when Melvin died, he told me they killed Dorothy.
[SPEAKER_15]: And that led me to writing the book, The Poison Patriarch, about the 60 election and all of that.
[SPEAKER_15]: And then, because I knew nothing about Dorothy, I started looking into that.
[SPEAKER_15]: And of course, as Bob knows, and you do, Gianni, she was, she was, and is the most credible to reporter to have ever investigated JFK's death, because she went to death.
[SPEAKER_15]: First of all, she and JFK were very, very good friends.
[SPEAKER_15]: In fact, she lived at 45 East 68 Street there.
[SPEAKER_15]: and JFK and Jackie used to come over there and for parties and play charades with her and everything else like that.
[SPEAKER_15]: So that's what's so amazing here about Bob being able to go ahead and get a street sign, Dorothy Kilgallon way because it's right next to where she lived.
[SPEAKER_15]: But she was at that, I always say this about other so-called experts who looked into the assassination.
[SPEAKER_15]: Dorothy Kilgallon was in Dallas, a lot of them weren't.
[SPEAKER_15]: She was at the Jack Ruby trial.
[SPEAKER_15]: She interviewed a lot of the witnesses to the assassination and then she wrote these eight or nine columns the first one the Oswald file must not close Whatever Ruby told her she went to New Orleans.
[SPEAKER_15]: She looked into Carlisme Arcelo and all of that
[SPEAKER_15]: So it's amazing because at 45 East, 68 Street, she wrote all of her newspaper columns, okay?
[SPEAKER_15]: She worked remotely from home when nobody did that very much.
[SPEAKER_15]: She worked on her preparation for what's my line.
[SPEAKER_15]: She worked on her strategies for investigations.
[SPEAKER_15]: She the mother of three and took care of the kids so so much of what she did.
[SPEAKER_15]: That's where she exposed the Jack Ruby testimonies
[SPEAKER_15]: So such a remarkable career, but it all goes back to the fact that to this day, and I want to say this too, with the new book of use of power, that book again is based on Dorothy Kilgallon's strategies and investigation prowess when even when RFK was still alive, because she always looked at one thing that I did when I was a criminal defense lawyer and that is motive.
[SPEAKER_15]: And she realized that Marcelo had the strongest motive to have eliminated JFK, and then when I looked into this new evidence about Robert Kennedy's death, Marcelo did too, because he could never let Robert Kennedy become president.
[SPEAKER_15]: But that's what shines about Dorothy Kilgallon.
[SPEAKER_15]: And I hope that by by Bob being able to give her this respect with it with a street sign like this.
[SPEAKER_15]: That that more people will learn about this amazing woman and her and her illustrious career for sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm sure that'll happen.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to crash your body on the eighth.
[SPEAKER_15]: I just I hope you I hope you will come and know okay good and we should say Bob shouldn't we it's open to the public.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a good public and certainly Mr. Russo, if you could say a few words about meeting Dorothy, I wanted somebody who actually met her and you're the person.
[SPEAKER_04]: I met and sat with him many, many nights.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so you could offer some insight as to her personality, give us some of your reactions as a teen to meeting her and just talk about the times that she lived and then Mark will talk about her accomplishments because he's the expert on Dorothy Kilgallon and
[SPEAKER_02]: and certainly on investigative reporting.
[SPEAKER_02]: She was an amazing investigative reporter and quite young.
[SPEAKER_02]: She was they called on the girl reporter when she was one in the 1930s mark.
[SPEAKER_15]: Well, I have to think she was born in 1913.
[SPEAKER_15]: She was a colleagues dropout.
[SPEAKER_15]: She got an internship through her father who was a famous reporter for the New York Journal, which became
[SPEAKER_15]: And at first, you know, all of the gender discrimination, they didn't want anything to do with it.
[SPEAKER_15]: They wouldn't give her exciting cases to look at or anything.
[SPEAKER_15]: But when you look at, she was enthralled, Gianni, maybe you know this, enthralled with crime cases.
[SPEAKER_15]: And she witnessed a sing-sing execution.
[SPEAKER_15]: And then she just listened to the trials that she covered, the Lindberg baby kidnapping case.
[SPEAKER_15]: Lenny Bruce.
[SPEAKER_15]: I mean, she was at those trials and reported on them, and she was really the only reporter out of all those covering the JFK assassination, to stand up to, to, to, to, to, jadgar Hoover's Oswald alone, uh, theory and all of that.
[SPEAKER_15]: So Dorothy was a woman of courage.
[SPEAKER_15]: That's for sure.
[SPEAKER_15]: And I think, uh, it'll be great.
[SPEAKER_15]: Well, what were your impressions of our, uh, Gianni when you first met her?
[SPEAKER_15]: Do you remember?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I was in awe with her because, you know, again, I was a teenager.
[SPEAKER_04]: I had the privilege of the copo because Costello who took me into under his wing and became my basic and my father image.
[SPEAKER_04]: I sat with all these people.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'd be sitting there because when he got up he thought I should sit where he's sitting.
[SPEAKER_04]: And if they needed anything like was I was hosting the table and these those are all Wilson and darned it killed Galan and An education for me But I thought she was the smartest woman in the world everything she said when she opened him out You little you listen and you believe that it was that that's it never doubted me
[SPEAKER_15]: That's just great Bob, isn't it that that'll really add a great deal to this ceremony because I thought of him right away.
[SPEAKER_15]: I knew you won some people that would have known Dorothy and this will really be great.
[SPEAKER_15]: Wanted?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, normally, yes, normally we have family, but we've been trying to contact.
[SPEAKER_02]: some family members who are still alive, obviously, and hopefully we'll have a family member there or relative, we're hoping we still haven't set the speaking order, but right now it's all open up and then Mark is going to say, say, you know, talk about his investigations and talk about her life and then
[SPEAKER_02]: Jeannie, you could talk about meeting her and your impressions and hopefully we can find a family member because that's what happens and then we we actually have a We we unveil the sign and then we get we give us a copy of the the sign The exact sign that's hanging we have a we have another copy that the Department of Transportation in New York City gives us and we give it usually to a family member
[SPEAKER_02]: But absent that, we could, right now, we'll decide who gets it, but right now Mark Shaw is probably the likely one.
[SPEAKER_15]: No, Bob, you should have that side.
[SPEAKER_15]: There's no doubt.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, I can get that easily.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can get another copy, so don't worry about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You did amazing, the books that you wrote about this, and obviously others, really,
[SPEAKER_02]: We need justice for for Dorothy and that's what I hope, you know, one day we'll get it just like justice for JFK, because it, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: it was never solved in my my feeling is it was never solved but hopefully one day it will be but but she was on to something and she according to mark she was a life was threatened and just right before her death so that alone should have warranted an investigation but it didn't.
[SPEAKER_15]: I think I think what would happen with brag and and with NYPD and the other investigations I've tried to get is yes you're right.
[SPEAKER_15]: Ron Pataki, who was the kind of romantic interest of Dorothy's, before she died, she unfortunately shared a lot of her information from the JFK assassination investigation with him.
[SPEAKER_15]: And then I believe he was turned by our fellows, people to set her up for the kill and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_15]: So yes, he's dead.
[SPEAKER_15]: I almost got him to confess one time when I talked to him.
[SPEAKER_15]: It didn't work out.
[SPEAKER_15]: But the key here is that her reputation was ruined.
[SPEAKER_15]: And in the new book, Abuse of Power, I really show I interviewed four people who were right around the medical examiner's office when Dorothy died, including a deputy sheriff, two forensic people, and the wife of one of the forensic people.
[SPEAKER_15]: And that's in the new book.
[SPEAKER_15]: And there are recollections of what happened.
[SPEAKER_15]: And well, Christopher Broch, who's one of them of this right there in New York City and is a friend of Sue Edelman's.
[SPEAKER_15]: But one of them said, you know, when I walked into the medical examiner's office, it wasn't like Joe Banano was there.
[SPEAKER_15]: But all of the people that they brought in to work handed up being from the same city in Sicily.
[SPEAKER_15]: And, you know, they question them.
[SPEAKER_15]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_15]: a coroner quickly decided that door, they found an empty
[SPEAKER_15]: pill box of second all pill sleeping pills and immediately thought it's another celebrity who's who's overdosed.
[SPEAKER_15]: They never had an investigation.
[SPEAKER_15]: I interviewed Dr. Michael Bodden for this new book and he basically said, no, we didn't know what happened.
[SPEAKER_15]: They never should have told the the media that she died of an overdose because what that happened is it really ruined Dorothy's
[SPEAKER_15]: and I guess I should get credit for it and I'll take it is that when I started looking into Dorothy Kilgallon, I couldn't find anything about her.
[SPEAKER_15]: She basically disappeared from the face of the earth.
[SPEAKER_15]: Nobody stood up for not her family, not the watch my lying people, not the the people of the newspaper, nobody stood up for and said, you know, that's not like what Dorothy would have done.
[SPEAKER_15]: and so unfortunately that reputation has been tarnished.
[SPEAKER_15]: I'm pleased to say now the because of the interviews and presentations I've done that the Rupp on YouTube and and all of that that people have come around to realizing and I get an email probably every day I'll tell you Judy Collins for instance the you know the song singer songwriter of fame sent me an email that said how much she loved Dorothy and how upset she was
[SPEAKER_15]: and she could.
[SPEAKER_15]: She was going to come to this to this ceremony, but she's traveling out in California.
[SPEAKER_15]: So Bob, I hope we can get some new investigation or investigation based on the new evidence that I have, but if we can clear her name at some particular point that would make a lot of difference and you have really took a giant step doing that by the legitimacy of
[SPEAKER_04]: And it's all still.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's take a break.
[SPEAKER_16]: Sorry, I do want to take a quick break and then we'll come right back and give me just one second and and we'll just pass commercial.
[SPEAKER_16]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_04]: I see.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm very happy to say, having Mark Shaw on this show today, where my book comes up, my new book is Mafia Secrets, which is what we're talking about right now, comes out in November 2018, and Amazon has already sold 22,000 copies and pre-orders.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is my fourth book.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm trying to become a mock sure, but anyway, I just want to bring that up and that I'll be at the lock.
[SPEAKER_04]: from my people in Europe, I'm ending my tour this year on January 2nd at the lock in Dublin.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, we're almost sold out already.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they're asking me to stay another show, which I'll definitely do.
[SPEAKER_04]: But let's get back to this wonderful tribute.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you do.
[SPEAKER_15]: We have sold 22,000 in one because I bought the book.
[SPEAKER_15]: And it looks like it's very impressive.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, for you to say my books impressive.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's like, you know, that's the greatest tribute.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you to me.
[SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[SPEAKER_16]: Can I start us, Johnny?
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_16]: All right.
[SPEAKER_16]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_16]: We're back with Mark Shaw, who is an author that has wrote a bunch of amazing books, and with Robert Holden, who is a New York City Councilman, and we appreciate you joining the show.
[SPEAKER_16]: So let's get back into the conversation.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_16]: So I've got questions if that's okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_16]: So Mark, I know all about your books and I am 59 years old.
[SPEAKER_16]: So this is when I was very small, you know,
[SPEAKER_16]: all of this from you and the name Dorothy Cogavan and know some people of my age have never heard of her but I certainly have after listening to all that you've told about it and I think it's remarkable
[SPEAKER_16]: Robert Bob that you are bringing this back up and trying to restore her reputation.
[SPEAKER_16]: I think it's fantastic and what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_16]: So I know on November 8th you've got something coming up.
[SPEAKER_16]: Will you tell us exactly what that is that you're we know you're naming a street after her.
[SPEAKER_16]: But so so people can come you said the public is welcome.
[SPEAKER_16]: So I'm wondering if they'll tell us exactly where it is and do you know the times
[SPEAKER_02]: It's on a 68 street between Park and Madison.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be 11 o'clock on November 8th.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a Saturday and it's the 60th anniversary to the day that obviously Dorothy Kilgallon was discovered dead in her bed.
[SPEAKER_02]: We never had full closure like Mark was mentioning earlier in his books.
[SPEAKER_02]: She just disappeared.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Mark, I believe there was also a blackout the next day in New York City.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they had a massive blackout, as I remember, that also contributed to the lack of news coverage.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it really was knocked off the front pages.
[SPEAKER_02]: She never got her just due.
[SPEAKER_02]: She never, her name wasn't cleared.
[SPEAKER_02]: It looked like she overdosed, which she didn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: We, you know, we could almost state that for a fact.
[SPEAKER_02]: She wouldn't have done that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And even what Mark has reported over and over again, that the,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, the second hall that was in her blood and also the alcohol was very little both of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't enough to that would kill her and it wasn't really in an autopsy and it wasn't really an investigation.
[SPEAKER_02]: That should have happened.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're hoping it still could happen, but I'm hoping that by doing the street co- naming it will bring her name to the forefront and people will start to ask questions and people might come forward.
[SPEAKER_15]: Good, and you know, Dorothy Kilgau, and I could, I want to give a couple of quotes here that I don't want to forget, but 10,000 people showed up for her funeral.
[SPEAKER_15]: That's an immense, a lot of people, John Lindsay, I think was the mayor there.
[SPEAKER_15]: He was there.
[SPEAKER_15]: All of these different people out of respect for Dorothy Kilgau, and because if you ever want to summarize what Dorothy was about, she was a woman of the truth.
[SPEAKER_15]: uh... she got into a a dog fight with Frank Sinatra by writing columns and talking about his he used to be an action
[SPEAKER_15]: mafia connections.
[SPEAKER_15]: She went up against Jay at your Hoover.
[SPEAKER_15]: She was a woman of the truth who always tried to find out exactly what happened.
[SPEAKER_15]: We should mention the New York Post called the most powerful female voice in American.
[SPEAKER_15]: Can you imagine that?
[SPEAKER_15]: Her newspaper column was sent to 200 newspapers across the country.
[SPEAKER_15]: Ernest Hemingway called her the greatest woman writer in the
[SPEAKER_15]: uh and she she was just somebody who uh you know and people have asked me uh didn't she know that she was getting too close to the uh truth about the assassination she was writing a book for random house about it wanted to get close you and I know that that's right and she did but uh wasn't she scared shouldn't she have taken precautions gotten body guards and everything else like that
[SPEAKER_15]: But Dorothy was so big.
[SPEAKER_15]: She was so popular with her column and everything else.
[SPEAKER_15]: I think she thought that she was immune from anybody coming after her and unfortunately made that mistake.
[SPEAKER_15]: So I really had the advantage because I found out about her and even today I still follow the investigation strategies that she uses.
[SPEAKER_15]: She used back then and that's why this what Bob is done to bring her back into the limelight.
[SPEAKER_15]: I think we'll make a difference with an
[SPEAKER_15]: Many of whom, you don't really don't know who she is yet.
[SPEAKER_16]: Well, you know what I did?
[SPEAKER_16]: No.
[SPEAKER_16]: Oh, I'm sorry, do you want to go ahead?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, please, no, go.
[SPEAKER_16]: No, what I know about her is she was someone not only was she a woman in this business, but she wasn't afraid to butt-head with people, right?
[SPEAKER_16]: And she knew that what she said, if people knew what I knew, then I should be afraid or something to that effect.
[SPEAKER_15]: You've got a good good memory right before she died, whatever Ruby told her centered a New Orleans and that's where Marcelo was and she believed that Marcelo was the one who set up a JFK for the assassination.
[SPEAKER_15]: So she gets back to New York and she says to one hairdresser if the wrong people knew what I know about the JFK assassination would cost me my life.
[SPEAKER_15]: He had a good memory there and the other hairdressers she said I'm afraid for my life and my family and I bought a gun.
[SPEAKER_15]: Oh, and so she knew she was she that you know, it was acceptable to to problems for the love of her life was her young son Tick carry who is a real, really, really young little kid and just before she died, I think she was warned because she picked up a New York city newspaper and there was a picture of Young carry running across the bond at Central Park.
[SPEAKER_15]: and she just went wild because she knew that somebody had been following him and young carry is the is the one she took to the White House and and JFK made a big fuss over him and gave him a PT109 pin and all that but when she sent saw that picture I was kidding I've had some contact with with the Dorothy's granddaughter
[SPEAKER_15]: and unfortunately, I don't know if she can make it to the ceremony, but she recalled as I did that Dorothy, that was right near Halloween, so to protect Tertek Young carry, she ordered a limousine and he trickered treated going around in a limousine with her in the back seat.
[SPEAKER_15]: That's how much she loved him.
[SPEAKER_15]: She's a wonderful mother.
[SPEAKER_15]: She really was, but she knew she was in trouble.
[SPEAKER_15]: And unfortunately, she didn't take care of that by being careful as to where she was going to give people information about the assassination and all of that, and unfortunately, that's what led to her demise.
[SPEAKER_15]: Bob probably knows that they're ended up being three barbituants in her system.
[SPEAKER_15]: When a new autopsy was our new look into her system was done just a couple years later.
[SPEAKER_15]: But, you know, if you talk about Maryland, you talk about JFK, you talk about Dorothy, and now I'm going to prove in the new book that Marcelo was involved in Robert Kennedy's death.
[SPEAKER_15]: So you've gotten these mob hits as Bob, you know, talked about because they all make sense.
[SPEAKER_15]: What happens in Gianni is the number one expert about this.
[SPEAKER_15]: So he should take over.
[SPEAKER_15]: uh... because uh... what do you do you uh... you get rid of whoever virtue of all you get somebody to do your dirty work right and Carlos Marcelo by the way confess to uh... killing a jfk as i haven't new book he said while he was in prison
[SPEAKER_15]: uh... yeah i had him killed i'm glad i did i wish i could i'd done it myself that's in the j afk uh... such assassination right here in the early year in this year so you know it's it's a situation where you uh... uh... johnny knows you get somebody to do your dirty work and then you go ahead you've got to you know can't have loose voices there so you go ahead and get rid of that person and then you're scot free and that's exactly
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[SPEAKER_15]: what's happened through the ages with regard to those for for deaths.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I happen to be at my cellos' house on a Sunday when and you used to have a big family gathering all the time and I was down in New Orleans at time and I went to it and who showed up was Robert Kennedy.
[SPEAKER_04]: with a group of people on the Sunday and embarrassed them in front of his family.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he said, with the newspapers there because Robert was going, you know, he knew where he was going, trying to elevate himself to become the next president.
[SPEAKER_04]: And Marcello said, you're a dead man.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he stopped everywhere and right over to him with the press.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is your threatening?
[SPEAKER_04]: a district attorney general is I'm not the right thing you you're a dead man that's when they deported a member they deported them and dropped them in the jungle right yeah mark man says that yeah yeah and he can't mess around with those guys in a week he was back year and all of us knew you know what happened in in California was going to happen
[SPEAKER_15]: I always like to tell it.
[SPEAKER_15]: I'm going to tell a quick story because when I was with good morning America, as a correspondent, they sent me to Philadelphia and you may know this name to interview Angela Bruno, who was the head of Philadelphia's mom.
[SPEAKER_15]: Well, he couldn't talk to me but his attorney could.
[SPEAKER_15]: So I interviewed the attorney and I couldn't believe what he told me.
[SPEAKER_15]: So I went back to GMA and they played that interview the next day.
[SPEAKER_15]: And the producer said, Mark, can you get that attorney to talk to you again?
[SPEAKER_15]: True story.
[SPEAKER_15]: And I said, well, I'm still in Philadelphia, I'll try it.
[SPEAKER_15]: Call his office is Mr.
[SPEAKER_15]: Such and such day there.
[SPEAKER_15]: Secretary came on the line and I could tell there was something wrong.
[SPEAKER_15]: And I finally said, are you okay?
[SPEAKER_15]: And she said, well, I guess you don't know Mr. Shaw.
[SPEAKER_15]: My boss, when he started his car this morning, it blew up.
[SPEAKER_15]: You can't mess around with those guys.
[SPEAKER_15]: That's for sure.
[SPEAKER_15]: And that's, that's what can happen.
[SPEAKER_15]: And you know that better than I do.
[SPEAKER_15]: Unfortunately, unfortunately, can I, can I go back to Bob for it?
[SPEAKER_15]: No, go ahead with your question, Gene.
[SPEAKER_16]: I was just going to ask Bob.
[SPEAKER_16]: So when did they start reinvestigating this?
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... when i spoke to mark uh... mark and i read uh... another book of his uh... and i got more information and so i called uh... i do have access to some of the city officials so i did me with the police i met with the co-case unit uh... they said they would investigate it uh... then i went to uh... alvin brags office
[SPEAKER_02]: And they, they at first, you know, I emailed them and went back and forth, spoke to them, gave them, and Mark provided me with a lot of his notes, which were compelling to say the least.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they assigned two coal case unit, uh, Bracks Office assigned two coal case unit, uh, lawyers.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like I mentioned before, they actually read the book that we had recommended, Mark said, this is the book that they should read.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it wasn't a small book.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was pretty thick.
[SPEAKER_02]: Was that collateral damage?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that was, yes, it was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good memory.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was, that was, you know, that was involved.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was so impressed.
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, oh, we're going to get some place because they actually took the time to read his book.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then we got to the point where I would call back and they weren't as forthcoming.
[SPEAKER_02]: They said, oh, this is going to take some time.
[SPEAKER_02]: And once went by, and I finally had a Zoom call with that they said, well, you know, Councilman, who do we prosecute?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because normally what we have an end goal here to try to find
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... information we we you know we have to charge somebody who do we charge who do we indict that we have to bring us to a grand jury who should the grand jury indict and but i could answer that but you know it when you think about who who do you and they they're spending their wheels and they're never going to get a mark mark had contacted bregg's office before bright mark and uh... at that time i think uh... romp attack he was still alive
[SPEAKER_15]: He was and and the first one I contacted with Cyrus fans juniors office and they they assigned a protective to it.
[SPEAKER_15]: I talk with him.
[SPEAKER_15]: I sent him all the I flew to New York police headquarters.
[SPEAKER_15]: I did all of that and then all at once they said it's going to take too much time.
[SPEAKER_15]: So I traveled to New York and met with Dermit Shea the police commissioner where he was giving a speech kind of startled him by being there walked up in front when he was done and he shook my hand and said
[SPEAKER_15]: I know that they say these things about who can you prosecute and all of that, but I'm very suspicious.
[SPEAKER_15]: I've never been able to get the records of the New York Police Department about Northeast Death because I'm not a member of the family.
[SPEAKER_15]: And I'm still suspicious that there's something in those records or whatever that is protecting somebody or whatever.
[SPEAKER_15]: Now I know this
[SPEAKER_15]: But unfortunately, it just doesn't seem to make sense to me that the evidence is compelling that she was poisoned, that she was murdered, she was a victim of a homicide.
[SPEAKER_15]: That's what a cold case God does, and that's what Dermit She told me they were going to do.
[SPEAKER_15]: So I've always been kind of suspicious that there's something else involved here that we don't know about.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's plausible mark because it was going so well.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were like getting some traction.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was very hopeful.
[SPEAKER_02]: My conversations with the attorneys at Bragg's office, the DA Manhattan DA were very promising.
[SPEAKER_02]: And all of a sudden, we hit a brick wall on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: When Mark said that, you know, he ran into the same thing that could be something in the files that they don't want to touch that they just say, you know what we don't want to open this kind of worms or So you just one of you mentioned was it a granddaughter of dorthies or a meat couldn't I was it was me it was me and here's a situation with the family.
[SPEAKER_15]: Unfortunately, when Dorothy Kilgalleng died and I need to put that in context, nobody stood up for her, all right, here's why, at least that's what they said.
[SPEAKER_15]: They knew she was working on the JFK assassination.
[SPEAKER_15]: In fact, the Butler, her Butler, the night before she died told her, you've got to leave this alone, stop investigating, but Dorothy wasn't going to do that.
[SPEAKER_15]: And so then she dies, all right?
[SPEAKER_15]: Well, they're convinced everybody around there, including the people at what's my, John Daley and all of them, that it's somebody who, the same people who assassinated the president of the United States.
[SPEAKER_15]: So they don't want to go forward with any investigation.
[SPEAKER_15]: They're scared to do that.
[SPEAKER_15]: So when I contacted it, she has, she has a son and she has two sons
[SPEAKER_15]: I've gotten in touch with him over the year.
[SPEAKER_15]: They don't want anything to do with this.
[SPEAKER_15]: They still feel like that there's somebody out there who's going to cause them problems or whatever.
[SPEAKER_15]: But oh, a month or so ago, maybe two months, I was contacted by this granddaughter of Dorothy's.
[SPEAKER_15]: And she was most interested in finding out more about Dorothy.
[SPEAKER_15]: I sent her a copy of the reporter who knew two months.
[SPEAKER_15]: She's been looking at it.
[SPEAKER_15]: Unfortunately, I thought, okay, and we talked about that she could come back to New York City.
[SPEAKER_15]: I told her I'd pay her expenses if she would do that.
[SPEAKER_15]: And I thought we had a good shot at that until apparently she talked to her father, who's still apparently, even after all these years, is afraid that somebody will come out of the woodwork and cause her problems.
[SPEAKER_15]: Now, I've asked her just to think about this, some Bob may have more luck by coming from
[SPEAKER_15]: I think this happens to every author.
[SPEAKER_15]: I'm sure it's happened to to a Gianni as well.
[SPEAKER_15]: A lot of people feel like you write these books because you want to sell them and make a lot of money.
[SPEAKER_15]: And I think the family over the years has felt like that's been my only motive when, of course, it hasn't been.
[SPEAKER_15]: But they're always suspicious of that.
[SPEAKER_15]: So I think it's obvious that they're seeing that they're going to try to get a hold of some of the family members coming from him it may make a difference.
[SPEAKER_15]: I hope it does.
[SPEAKER_04]: but walk the thing is this, anybody that's involved, whether they're just a son, a niece, whoever it may be, there is a fear there.
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, it's known, you get too close to something, you're gonna have a problem.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they say, what good is it gonna do now?
[SPEAKER_04]: We're gonna clear a name and I'm gonna die.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, it's unfortunate.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and if they can kill the president of the United States.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_16]: Get away with it.
[SPEAKER_16]: Get away.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's leave this on a positive note.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Bob, what you have done, we'll be there on the eighth mark.
[SPEAKER_04]: you've influenced so many of us, even myself, because I met her in a different light, then I knew of her death.
[SPEAKER_04]: For me, it was so comparison to Maryland's death, not to be gave me the interest.
[SPEAKER_04]: I knew mocks and Claire, I spoke to mocks and Claire after that, which I never discussed with anybody until now.
[SPEAKER_04]: But when you see what's written on the wall, you walk away, unfortunate.
[SPEAKER_15]: Unfortunately, yes.
[SPEAKER_15]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_04]: On the eighth, Robert, we'll be there.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for the podcast and We'll do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait to meet you in person on the eighth.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll be there and congratulate you and walk on your effort.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll be there anytime you want and come on anytime.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because it's it's it's something that should be solved.
[SPEAKER_04]: Will it ever be solved?
[SPEAKER_04]: knows.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Mark and I are going to go on maybe you can go on some TV shows and talk about Dorothy.
[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe we could we could talk about this and get some publicity for any time you want.
[SPEAKER_02]: Great.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_04]: And both of you guys, you're referred.
[SPEAKER_04]: Again, thank you.
[SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_15]: Thank you, Bob.
[SPEAKER_15]: And thank you.
[SPEAKER_15]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you.
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