WEBVTT 00:00.251 --> 00:02.935 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to the Aquaman podcast. 00:03.155 --> 00:05.218 [SPEAKER_00]: This is an exploration of woman kind. 00:05.358 --> 00:15.793 [SPEAKER_00]: Here we discuss what it is to be a woman in the modern world while utilizing ancient and modern modalities in tandem to create a bounty of health for the body, mind and spirit. 00:17.958 --> 00:20.379 [SPEAKER_00]: Good day everyone and welcome back to the Aquaman pod. 00:20.399 --> 00:32.363 [SPEAKER_00]: Today we're going to be talking all things Ashwaganda, but before we get into it, let's pay our respects to the elders past, present and future, residing on the lands of Luchwira Tasmania, where I'm recording this podcast today. 00:32.703 --> 00:34.484 [SPEAKER_00]: Always has, always will be baby. 00:35.024 --> 00:38.888 [SPEAKER_00]: I put this up on my stories and said, what do you want me to do? 00:38.948 --> 00:45.034 [SPEAKER_00]: A podcast on and one of the options was Ashrokanda and I just thought this was going to win by a landslide and one by a landslide. 00:45.514 --> 00:47.836 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a very popular herb, for good reason. 00:47.936 --> 00:58.967 [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty great and it's very well suited to a modern world but there are some important caveats around this which I think unfortunately a lot of people will have learnt the hard way so let's get into all things Ashrokanda. 00:59.107 --> 01:00.208 [SPEAKER_00]: So what is Ashrokanda? 01:00.348 --> 01:04.712 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, it's botanical name, is withenia, somnefera. 01:04.992 --> 01:06.613 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a part of the nightshade family. 01:06.954 --> 01:10.036 [SPEAKER_00]: So tomatoes, potatoes, chili peppers, which I think it's really interesting. 01:10.056 --> 01:18.864 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people who don't really get along with those foods, which tend to have a lot of histamine as well, don't tend to tolerate Ashbaganda very well. 01:18.944 --> 01:25.650 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you don't get along with Ashbaganda, maybe that's the reason why if you don't get along with nightshades because it's part of the nightshade family. 01:25.850 --> 01:29.635 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a small evergreen shrub, typically under 1.5 meters tall. 01:29.655 --> 01:34.721 [SPEAKER_00]: So just about my to a height, really, favor is dry, still need to serve as soils in full sun. 01:35.082 --> 01:39.968 [SPEAKER_00]: It's native to Indian subcontinent, but we also see in the Middle East and parts of North Africa. 01:40.028 --> 01:41.650 [SPEAKER_00]: It's now cultivated from Spain. 01:42.070 --> 01:46.592 [SPEAKER_00]: to North Central China, so we're seeing it cultivated and grown all throughout the world. 01:46.853 --> 01:53.336 [SPEAKER_00]: It has other common names like Indian Jinseng and Winter Cherry, but botanically unrelated to true Jinseng. 01:53.656 --> 02:06.303 [SPEAKER_00]: The Jinseng label is marketing shorthand for a daptogenic tonic herb, not a botanical relationship, so the two have completely different phytochemical properties and mechanisms, which is really important for us to correct here. 02:06.723 --> 02:08.724 [SPEAKER_00]: Jinseng is quite warming. 02:09.084 --> 02:13.848 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess Ashwaganda, when we talk about our Uveda, is quite warming as well. 02:13.888 --> 02:15.769 [SPEAKER_00]: That's one of the qualities they have in common. 02:15.810 --> 02:17.971 [SPEAKER_00]: Both of them to a certain degree are adaptogenic. 02:18.372 --> 02:26.258 [SPEAKER_00]: I would say Ashwaganda is definitely more adaptogenic, but Ashwaganda is a calming tonic, and Jun Singh is more upregulating if you know what I mean. 02:26.358 --> 02:27.659 [SPEAKER_00]: On the nervous system specifically. 02:27.899 --> 02:36.011 [SPEAKER_00]: So there are lots of different parts of Ashwaganda that you can use, but we mostly use the root, also known as the Moola in Arivetic Text. 02:36.171 --> 02:42.681 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the leaves, berries, and seeds also appear in some formulations, but mostly we're seeing root and leaf extracts. 02:42.901 --> 02:48.683 [SPEAKER_00]: And alongside that, root and the leaf have completely different purposes underneath our evader. 02:49.004 --> 02:51.965 [SPEAKER_00]: So, and they also have different with anal profiles. 02:52.085 --> 03:01.649 [SPEAKER_00]: A chunk of 2023, 2024 regulatory confusion stemmed from leaf derived extracts being marketed under the same actual ganda and umbrella as extracts from the root. 03:02.009 --> 03:07.251 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you have to understand when you're buying an actual ganda, what type of actual ganda are you taking? 03:07.411 --> 03:08.131 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it the leaf? 03:08.311 --> 03:09.012 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it the berry? 03:09.232 --> 03:09.812 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it the root? 03:10.012 --> 03:15.159 [SPEAKER_00]: has it been put with alcohol, does it still have its microbiome on its root structure? 03:15.319 --> 03:17.802 [SPEAKER_00]: There are so many different things that you really need to understand. 03:18.242 --> 03:25.672 [SPEAKER_00]: With herbs before you take it, generally, I think just taking the whole body of the root and the dry form is my preferred way, but we'll get into that. 03:26.052 --> 03:26.972 [SPEAKER_00]: later in the podcast. 03:27.233 --> 03:29.914 [SPEAKER_00]: It's primary active compounds is Wethanolts. 03:30.234 --> 03:37.817 [SPEAKER_00]: So these are a family of 40 stereotypical lactones with Wethanolts, and Wethanode D with being the most studied. 03:38.238 --> 03:46.301 [SPEAKER_00]: Also contains alkaloids, like Wethan, and somina fraine, and sapinins, flavonoids, and tracemino acids as well. 03:46.581 --> 03:48.022 [SPEAKER_00]: Trace amino acids. 03:48.062 --> 03:53.104 [SPEAKER_00]: It is not a good form of protein intake, but it has some amino acids, because it's 03:55.145 --> 03:55.345 [SPEAKER_00]: there. 03:55.485 --> 04:09.851 [SPEAKER_00]: But the most important aspect of Ashwaganda, in my opinion, is it's a rodeo backpone with with fan-olds as the single most important fact about the herbs, structurally, close enough to our own steroid hormones, cortisol testosterone, estrogen, precursors. 04:09.871 --> 04:18.534 [SPEAKER_00]: If you didn't know, all of our hormones have a cholesterol backbone, that's why cholesterol is so important in their body, that's why all of our cells produce cholesterol, and that's why in periods of stress, 04:19.294 --> 04:21.637 [SPEAKER_00]: your body will increase LDL cholesterol. 04:21.657 --> 04:21.737 [SPEAKER_00]: Why? 04:22.078 --> 04:25.702 [SPEAKER_00]: So it has, your body has more ingredients to make stress hormones like cortisol. 04:26.323 --> 04:32.391 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's probably one of the reasons for why, Ashboghanna works so well is because structurally it's very similar to our cholesterol. 04:32.571 --> 04:33.472 [SPEAKER_00]: And because of that reason, 04:34.413 --> 04:49.349 [SPEAKER_00]: The structural composition of these parts of Ashwaganda can accidentally have this molecular mimicry with our stress hormones and other hormones in the body and it can attach to receptor sites, which I think is really interesting. 04:49.709 --> 05:04.059 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is kind of what might underlie both therapeutic effects and the emerging risk profiles associated with this as well coming back to that thing that I've said on my podcast a million times just because it's natural does not mean it's better nor 100% safe, okay? 05:05.420 --> 05:15.324 [SPEAKER_00]: herbs are very very strong, they're very powerful, they need to be respected, dose to properly just because it's natural doesn't mean that it's not going to hurt anyone and it has no risk profile whatsoever. 05:15.644 --> 05:28.429 [SPEAKER_00]: The fact that it can attach to receptor sites and it has molecular mimicry associated with other sex hormones and other stress hormones like cortisol means that there is risk associated with the dosage and the length that you're 05:29.710 --> 05:34.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's look at its ancient history and traditional use, because it's been used traditionally for thousands of years. 05:34.455 --> 05:38.740 [SPEAKER_00]: It's referenced under the Sanskrit name as verbati in the Rigveda. 05:39.040 --> 05:43.165 [SPEAKER_00]: Among the oldest Hindu religious texts dated roughly 1,500 to 1,000 B.C.E. 05:46.177 --> 06:00.879 [SPEAKER_00]: And when we look at other classical texts, features extensively in the three foundational array Vedic compendia, basically what I'm trying to say here is that it's really prominent in ancient texts, coming out of India associated with the ancient art. 06:01.359 --> 06:02.941 [SPEAKER_00]: of eating our uveda. 06:03.121 --> 06:04.683 [SPEAKER_00]: It's etymology is really interesting. 06:04.723 --> 06:08.347 [SPEAKER_00]: So ashwa means horse and ganda means smell. 06:08.407 --> 06:12.231 [SPEAKER_00]: So it directly translates to ashwa ganda horse smell. 06:12.612 --> 06:17.117 [SPEAKER_00]: And so this refers literally to the pundit root odor and it has a secondary mating as well. 06:17.557 --> 06:26.403 [SPEAKER_00]: So, traditional text describe the herb as in pair in parting the strength of a horse, framed as a tonic for vigor and resilience, not as a treatment for one disease. 06:26.723 --> 06:31.026 [SPEAKER_00]: So, it smells strongly like horses can sometimes smell quite strongly. 06:31.046 --> 06:32.487 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry to the horse people out there. 06:32.567 --> 06:34.789 [SPEAKER_00]: Livestock smells sometimes humans, most sometimes it's fine. 06:35.189 --> 06:45.874 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's more about how this tonic, this Ashwaganda tonic, can give you the strength and the vigilance and the, I guess, vitality of a horse. 06:46.114 --> 06:51.096 [SPEAKER_00]: The Rasa Yanda classification sits within Arivator's Rasa Yanda category. 06:51.176 --> 06:59.880 [SPEAKER_00]: So herbs associated with rejuvenation, slow age-related decline, and restoring Ojas, which is your vital essence and your immunity. 07:00.220 --> 07:07.730 [SPEAKER_00]: Conceptually close to the modern adaptogen framing supports overall capacity to cope with stresses and rather than treating in a single symptom. 07:07.890 --> 07:16.642 [SPEAKER_00]: So even back then thousands of years ago, people in India understood that this Ashwaganda Tonic, it had a lot of different effects on the body. 07:17.142 --> 07:22.306 [SPEAKER_00]: and you could improve your immunity, and it seems to have an adaptogenic effect on the body. 07:22.506 --> 07:26.229 [SPEAKER_00]: Traditionally, it's almost never used as a standalone isolated extract. 07:26.269 --> 07:37.298 [SPEAKER_00]: It's always combined with other herbs, milk, ghee, or honey, which are likely altered the absorption and effective dose in ways modern isolated extracts don't and possibly can't replicate either. 07:37.518 --> 07:44.544 [SPEAKER_00]: It's only in modern times, you know, in the past 100 years, where we're actually starting to see Ashwaganda used as a standalone treatment. 07:44.724 --> 08:01.977 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe that's one of the reasons why we're starting to see problems with the emerging safety signals because now we're seeing is that we're isolating not even just Ashwood Ganda on its own, but we're isolating specific alkaloids and that with thinnodes in it and we're only taking that we're not taking everything else. 08:02.417 --> 08:04.718 [SPEAKER_00]: And hard core are evaded. 08:04.798 --> 08:07.319 [SPEAKER_00]: Doctors will say, we need to take the root. 08:07.739 --> 08:09.800 [SPEAKER_00]: We need to make sure we're taking it only in winter. 08:09.980 --> 08:14.622 [SPEAKER_00]: We need to make sure that it is taken in a way that we're maintaining the microbiome around it. 08:14.922 --> 08:17.263 [SPEAKER_00]: We can't combine it with alcohol. 08:17.523 --> 08:19.124 [SPEAKER_00]: We need to eat it with certain foods. 08:19.484 --> 08:21.046 [SPEAKER_00]: There is an art to Ashwaganda. 08:21.086 --> 08:29.813 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that modern science has just not caught up with at all, but we will be talking about the modern science today because the compounds in Ashwaganda are really really amazing. 08:29.933 --> 08:38.580 [SPEAKER_00]: But maybe the problems that they're seeing with Ashwaganda is the fact that we're taking it alone and we're not taking it in the right way and perhaps we're not taking it the type of 08:40.542 --> 08:42.764 [SPEAKER_00]: So what's attribute genders mechanism of action? 08:42.864 --> 08:44.206 [SPEAKER_00]: How does it actually work? 08:44.546 --> 08:48.790 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's start with with analogies and steroid receptor mimicry. 08:48.810 --> 08:50.131 [SPEAKER_00]: I touched on this just before. 08:50.732 --> 08:56.838 [SPEAKER_00]: So with analogies, so that's the compound in attribute gonder that works quite well that we have lots of research on. 08:57.178 --> 09:05.920 [SPEAKER_00]: They are restorative lactones, and they share the core four ring steroid backbone with cortisol testosterone, estradiol, and progesterone, pretty big deal. 09:06.060 --> 09:10.021 [SPEAKER_00]: The structural similarity allows interaction to varying degrees. 09:10.121 --> 09:12.002 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we can't swap one out for the other. 09:12.442 --> 09:16.003 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, if you take echelganda, it's not going to increase your testosterone or estrogen or whatever. 09:16.403 --> 09:18.023 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a lot more tactile than that. 09:18.143 --> 09:21.584 [SPEAKER_00]: Of course, with steroid hormone receptors and the enzymatic 09:25.345 --> 09:30.487 [SPEAKER_00]: So there are a few different elements of how Ashwaganda could potentially interact with each of these systems. 09:30.727 --> 09:37.530 [SPEAKER_00]: And so this is the underlying mechanism of cortisol modulation, thyroid hormone changes, and sex-specific testosterone effects. 09:37.870 --> 09:44.053 [SPEAKER_00]: Ashwaganda should be understood as a hormone pathway active compound, not a simple non-hormonal calming herb. 09:44.073 --> 09:52.617 [SPEAKER_00]: So it does interact with our hormone or system or our endocrine system in a different way depending on your gender, your age, depending on where you are in your cycle, etc. 09:52.997 --> 09:55.699 [SPEAKER_00]: So the first one is your HPA axis and cortisol. 09:55.739 --> 09:57.540 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a whole podcast on cortisol. 09:57.560 --> 09:58.801 [SPEAKER_00]: So you might want to go and listen to that. 09:58.821 --> 10:03.925 [SPEAKER_00]: But when I'm talking about the HPA axis, I'm talking about your hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis. 10:04.345 --> 10:06.627 [SPEAKER_00]: And so basically, you feel stressed out. 10:06.707 --> 10:08.909 [SPEAKER_00]: Your body perceives such stress. 10:09.409 --> 10:13.874 [SPEAKER_00]: Send something called ACT Hage to your adrenals, your adrenals go dope. 10:13.994 --> 10:15.176 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to make cortisol. 10:15.516 --> 10:17.118 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get this active feedback. 10:17.258 --> 10:18.780 [SPEAKER_00]: Have we resolved the stress? 10:18.860 --> 10:19.541 [SPEAKER_00]: Do we feel better? 10:19.581 --> 10:20.141 [SPEAKER_00]: Are we safe? 10:20.181 --> 10:20.602 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, cool. 10:20.622 --> 10:24.206 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to stop releasing ACT H or I'm going to continue releasing it. 10:24.606 --> 10:28.732 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the HP A axis and that has a lot to do with our HP O axis. 10:29.053 --> 10:34.541 [SPEAKER_00]: If we're experiencing a lot of stress, then it can pause the cycle and it can stop you from ovulating as well. 10:34.561 --> 10:36.684 [SPEAKER_00]: So I talk about that on the cortisol podcast. 10:36.704 --> 10:39.668 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to learn more about that, there is a whole podcast all about that. 10:39.828 --> 10:45.554 [SPEAKER_00]: The interesting thing about Ashbaganda and HVA access is that it acts at multiple points. 10:45.734 --> 10:57.826 [SPEAKER_00]: It's direct interaction with glucocortisol receptor signaling and modulation of pituitary ACT hate release with an indirect calming effect on our central nervous system via GABA. 10:58.166 --> 11:01.830 [SPEAKER_00]: So that reduces perceived stress signals reaching the hypothalamus. 11:01.890 --> 11:03.632 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so what does that mean in English? 11:03.912 --> 11:11.097 [SPEAKER_00]: If it can modulate the amount of ACT H, we release and decrease that, that means we are releasing less cortisol. 11:11.477 --> 11:15.119 [SPEAKER_00]: On top of that, if we're increasing GABA, we're also calming the brain. 11:15.139 --> 11:21.363 [SPEAKER_00]: So there are two or three different ways that Ashbgana works directly on our central nervous system and that HPA axis. 11:21.703 --> 11:27.227 [SPEAKER_00]: So when people say, oh, if you take Ashbgana at low as cortisol, it's not so simple, it interacts with different parts of your brain. 11:27.307 --> 11:27.747 [SPEAKER_00]: Generally, 11:28.007 --> 11:30.768 [SPEAKER_00]: have a down regulating nature on our central nervous system. 11:30.988 --> 11:42.193 [SPEAKER_00]: In people with chronically elevated cortisol from ongoing psychological stress, this combination produces a measurable downward shift in serum cortisol, the best replicated effect in the entire literature. 11:42.533 --> 11:55.878 [SPEAKER_00]: So in the entire literature, Ashwaganda at this point in time seems to be one of the best contenders for low air in cortisol, which again coming back to that original point I made at the start of this podcast, makes it perfect for our modern world because we have this chronic stress. 11:56.218 --> 12:04.367 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't live in a nation world where we have a stressor that's really acute and needs to be dealt with and has a very simple resolution, right? 12:04.714 --> 12:09.815 [SPEAKER_00]: the old adage of we're running away from a tiger, for example, or something happens in your community. 12:10.235 --> 12:14.376 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a resolution of that stressor, and then you can come back. 12:14.636 --> 12:25.559 [SPEAKER_00]: But where is now it's, I'm late for work, I haven't had enough food, I haven't slept because my kids are keeping me up all night and then my bosses pissed off at me and then, oh fuck, I forgot to take my supplements and I'm late to hear him. 12:25.759 --> 12:31.980 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just this constant low level of stress that keeps kind of pushing up your cortisol over and over and over and over again. 12:32.541 --> 12:33.881 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a critical nuance 12:34.861 --> 12:40.346 [SPEAKER_00]: If we are chronically stressed, Ashbaganda works interestingly within this system. 12:40.687 --> 12:46.552 [SPEAKER_00]: In this system, there is a modulation of an already elevated system, not a universal cortisol blocker. 12:47.233 --> 12:54.680 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone who's HPA access is already running low, post-burnout with blunted morning cortisol, undiagnosed adrenal insufficiency, 12:55.020 --> 12:57.963 [SPEAKER_00]: further dampening this is a very different proposition. 12:58.143 --> 12:59.784 [SPEAKER_00]: So for me, this is a good example. 13:00.345 --> 13:04.369 [SPEAKER_00]: I've just come out of like, I guess two months, a very intense workload. 13:04.729 --> 13:14.798 [SPEAKER_00]: Been working on a website with my amazing website developer Laura, shout out to her, also just finished my PMRS book, hiring an assistant on boarding them. 13:14.818 --> 13:17.641 [SPEAKER_00]: And a bunch of other things going on on the back end of my business. 13:17.661 --> 13:19.062 [SPEAKER_00]: My partner is away at the moment. 13:19.102 --> 13:19.903 [SPEAKER_00]: My dog is 13:20.603 --> 13:23.347 [SPEAKER_00]: A puppy and is doing puppy things like running away. 13:23.407 --> 13:25.390 [SPEAKER_00]: It's been a little bit stressful. 13:25.530 --> 13:30.797 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm on my break from Ashwaganda and so I started to take it again for the past two or three days. 13:31.138 --> 13:35.464 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, okay, I can't take this right now because it's too depressing. 13:35.824 --> 13:36.804 [SPEAKER_00]: for my system. 13:36.965 --> 13:44.108 [SPEAKER_00]: I started to not feel energized in the morning, really, really tired in the morning, sleeping for 10 hours, still feeling tired after that. 13:44.308 --> 13:46.028 [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, you know what, I'm not going to take it tonight. 13:46.048 --> 13:48.209 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to see how I go into this morning. 13:48.229 --> 13:48.970 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel a lot better. 13:49.330 --> 13:51.351 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a really good example for you to remember. 13:51.651 --> 13:59.494 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're posed a huge period of work or stress and you start taking actual ganda, you might already have adrenal insufficiency. 13:59.954 --> 14:09.585 [SPEAKER_00]: You might already be post that huge stressor and your body is already starting to do as recovery process, taking ashwaganda in that instance might not actually be useful and helpful for you. 14:09.725 --> 14:10.867 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm a good example of that. 14:11.047 --> 14:15.312 [SPEAKER_00]: Going back to how ashwaganda works in the body, though, so gabanurgic and knit nervous system effects. 14:15.692 --> 14:18.756 [SPEAKER_00]: So gaba is the primary inhibitory transmitter, 14:19.116 --> 14:24.780 [SPEAKER_00]: the brake pedal that counter balances excitatory glutamate signaling in our central nervous system. 14:25.300 --> 14:34.166 [SPEAKER_00]: Animal studies show that ashwagata extracts can act as GABA mimitics, so either binding to GABA receptors directly or potentially GABA signaling. 14:34.287 --> 14:35.327 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really interesting. 14:35.387 --> 14:37.729 [SPEAKER_00]: It can act as GABA in the brain. 14:38.329 --> 14:44.994 [SPEAKER_00]: And this explains the traditional reputation as a mild setative, and nerveine that underpins the modern sleep findings. 14:45.274 --> 14:47.736 [SPEAKER_00]: but there's a practical interaction warning here. 14:48.297 --> 14:50.778 [SPEAKER_00]: Anything else that increases gap and noject tone? 14:50.839 --> 15:00.386 [SPEAKER_00]: So benzodiazepines, z-drugs like alcohol, for example, potential for additive sedation, when combined with ashwaganda. 15:00.706 --> 15:02.448 [SPEAKER_00]: So this is really discussed. 15:02.688 --> 15:03.929 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't drink with ashwaganda. 15:03.989 --> 15:05.850 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't take a benzodiazepine with ashwaganda. 15:05.870 --> 15:12.836 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're taking sleep medication, don't also take that with ashwaganda, because that has too much of a depressing impact on your nervous system. 15:13.176 --> 15:39.162 [SPEAKER_00]: right so we don't want that and if your nervous system is already down regulated in recovery after a period of high stress so there's no better word to say this but burn out that could be harmful as well so there are huge drug interactions here you don't want to take too many downers at the same time ashwaganda just because it's a herb and it's natural does not mean it's inherently safe to take with other pharmaceutical drugs that are designed to 15:41.483 --> 15:45.344 [SPEAKER_00]: Next, let's talk about the hypothalamus betuotary thyroid axis. 15:45.404 --> 15:54.626 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I have another podcast all about the thyroid, with Tara Nelson, who's a naturopath who specializes in the thyroid, go listen to that if you're more interested in the thyroid. 15:54.966 --> 15:56.706 [SPEAKER_00]: So, this is really important. 15:56.766 --> 16:06.908 [SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of the time we talk about Ashwaganda and cortisol, but we don't actually think about how it could possibly impact our thyroid, which is a really important part of our body. 16:06.988 --> 16:10.089 [SPEAKER_00]: If you can't be bothered going and listening to that podcast, I hear you, it's fine. 16:11.209 --> 16:13.772 [SPEAKER_00]: thyroid basically releases T3 and T4. 16:14.193 --> 16:18.458 [SPEAKER_00]: T3 is active, T4 is inactive and it sets the metabolic pace of the body. 16:18.799 --> 16:25.808 [SPEAKER_00]: The more T3 and T4 we have around, the warmer you are, the higher your metabolism the heat seems to be, the more energized you are, 16:26.243 --> 16:31.167 [SPEAKER_00]: your brain is functioning well, you have energy, you can exercise, all of these things. 16:31.247 --> 16:34.569 [SPEAKER_00]: If it's too high, you might have trouble sleeping, you might feel really very anxious. 16:34.889 --> 16:38.872 [SPEAKER_00]: If it's too low, you can get into something called hypotheraidism, low functioning thyroid. 16:39.273 --> 16:42.155 [SPEAKER_00]: Hands and feet are always cold because your metabolism is down-regulated. 16:42.455 --> 16:48.860 [SPEAKER_00]: You might have constipation, you might not be energized, you might have brain fog, you catch me, you follow the drift. 16:49.040 --> 16:55.926 [SPEAKER_00]: Ashbaganda interacts with this system quite dynamically and it's really important that we take this into account before you take Ashbaganda. 16:56.126 --> 17:01.571 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are chronically stressed and you have high cortisol, it blunts T3 and T4. 17:02.011 --> 17:05.935 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that explains that posed burnout tiredness to you feel. 17:06.415 --> 17:08.957 [SPEAKER_00]: it's probably from low three t3 and t4. 17:09.317 --> 17:13.159 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're experiencing that, Ashwaganda can interact with this. 17:13.379 --> 17:17.422 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's an intersex pathway that Ashwaganda can work with your thyroid. 17:17.462 --> 17:21.864 [SPEAKER_00]: So chronically elevated cortisol suppresses t4 to t3 conversion. 17:21.884 --> 17:28.848 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember what I just said t4 has four iron molecules and when we take one away it's t3 and it becomes active and it can work 17:30.089 --> 17:41.612 [SPEAKER_00]: So when cortisol is around it stops that conversion from happening, so that's why after a huge period of stress we feel really, really tired because we don't have that much T3 and T4 around because that conversion has been blunted. 17:41.772 --> 17:46.853 [SPEAKER_00]: Cortisol also blanced TSH, which basically tells the thyroid to make T3 and T4. 17:46.873 --> 17:49.054 [SPEAKER_00]: So we're seeing in two different ways cortisol is blunting. 17:49.614 --> 17:50.455 [SPEAKER_00]: Our metabolism. 17:50.635 --> 17:56.378 [SPEAKER_00]: If Ashwaganda low as cortisol this suppression can partially lift, allowing the thyroid access to speak up again. 17:56.698 --> 17:59.480 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a more direct pathway here as well, separately. 17:59.860 --> 18:05.464 [SPEAKER_00]: With animals, they appear to directly stimulate thyroid hormone secretion, and they can increase T4 output. 18:06.104 --> 18:09.746 [SPEAKER_00]: Or peripheral T3 conversion independent of cortisol changes. 18:10.166 --> 18:15.970 [SPEAKER_00]: Combined, these produced genuine T3 T4 raising and TSH lowering effect in humans, 18:16.250 --> 18:18.171 [SPEAKER_00]: which is not marginal or theoretical. 18:18.411 --> 18:21.813 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that was found out by Sharma at Al in 2018. 18:21.833 --> 18:23.474 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a really interesting paper to look through. 18:23.815 --> 18:38.484 [SPEAKER_00]: For subclinical hypothyroidism, this could be a potential benefit for normal thyroid function or critically autoimmune thyroid disease like Hashimoto's or Graves, pushing this already active immune function and dysregulate that access could fuck it up. 18:38.504 --> 18:40.985 [SPEAKER_00]: So basically, if you have any type of 18:42.566 --> 18:48.109 [SPEAKER_00]: To do with your thyroid, I wouldn't recommend taking ashwaganda unless you're doing an under-tight regulation. 18:48.429 --> 18:55.673 [SPEAKER_00]: And you are checking in with your health provider, preferably a natural path of herbalist who knows their shit and has been working with thyroid for a few years. 18:55.993 --> 18:58.034 [SPEAKER_00]: Like Tyran Elson, for example, for a while. 18:58.134 --> 19:00.595 [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't just go, okay, I'm going to listen to this. 19:00.775 --> 19:02.136 [SPEAKER_00]: I have a low-functioning thyroid. 19:02.156 --> 19:03.697 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to start taking ashwaganda. 19:04.017 --> 19:05.178 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I wouldn't do that. 19:05.319 --> 19:06.220 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not as simple as that. 19:06.260 --> 19:09.804 [SPEAKER_00]: Please contact your health provider for anything to do with your thyroid. 19:10.024 --> 19:12.006 [SPEAKER_00]: What about is effect on testosterone? 19:12.026 --> 19:16.892 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a myth going around that it can increase testosterone in women, which is not true. 19:17.132 --> 19:20.756 [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen that it increases testosterone in men, but it doesn't in women. 19:20.776 --> 19:21.577 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's get into it. 19:21.797 --> 19:27.218 [SPEAKER_00]: But the proposed mechanisms in men is its structural similarity with with that holds two testosterone. 19:27.658 --> 19:35.380 [SPEAKER_00]: Gabbinurgic enhancement of hypotherlamic G&R H-positive, really which increases L-h, which pushes forward testosterone production as well. 19:35.880 --> 19:44.142 [SPEAKER_00]: It also reduces oxidative stress in testicular tissue and the general cortisol lowering effect as well has also improved testosterone output. 19:44.482 --> 19:52.208 [SPEAKER_00]: So Ashwaganda is really great for testosterone levels in men if they're teetering a little bit low and that's a bit of a stress-start individual. 19:52.368 --> 19:57.412 [SPEAKER_00]: This testosterone raising effect has been demonstrated repeatedly in men, but it has not been replicated in women. 19:57.893 --> 20:04.618 [SPEAKER_00]: So in 2026, they concluded Ashwaganda does not seem to elevate testosterone and women unlike in male study groups. 20:04.938 --> 20:10.703 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is really reassuring for women, especially EMOS women, because Ashwaganda on paper, you're like, wow, 20:12.724 --> 20:14.065 [SPEAKER_00]: for women with PMOS. 20:14.105 --> 20:19.070 [SPEAKER_00]: It lowers oxidative stress, it lowers cortisol, it increases GABA, improves sleep. 20:19.230 --> 20:27.639 [SPEAKER_00]: This is amazing, but I think there's that fear running through most of these holistic groups that because it increases testosterone in men, it increases testosterone in women. 20:27.679 --> 20:37.028 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, recently it was very much concluded in this study that it does not, which is a big win for women with PMOS and just generally women overarchingly who don't want 20:37.448 --> 20:40.209 [SPEAKER_00]: to deal with the symptoms of high testosterone. 20:40.389 --> 20:41.909 [SPEAKER_00]: I will also add on to that as well. 20:42.249 --> 20:52.371 [SPEAKER_00]: That Ashbaganda from this understanding makes it really perfect to be used just before and during you going off of any hormone of both control. 20:52.431 --> 21:03.554 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're thinking about getting your marina taken out in a month and you're thinking God, I used to have really bad cystic acne and I was a stressed out individual or I've just had a really stressful few months or you just also 21:04.774 --> 21:16.300 [SPEAKER_00]: that that HBA access can turn online really quite harshly I would say in those first months after you're going off of hormonal birth control because I remember that HPO and HBA access have a lot to do with one another. 21:17.001 --> 21:31.569 [SPEAKER_00]: Ashwaganda is pretty great to be taking a month before and a month after you're going off of any type of hormonal birth control I think that's a really great idea of course talk to your health provider as well and make sure you're making a personalized decision but Ashwaganda is really really great. 21:31.869 --> 21:35.293 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it can help you to regulate your endocrine system. 21:35.333 --> 21:39.677 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying it can lower testosterone, but it can also, it can lower cortisol. 21:39.697 --> 21:48.426 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's one of the main things that we really need to keep under control is decreasing oxidative stress inflammation and cortisol in that first month or two after going off of hormone or birth control. 21:48.466 --> 21:50.468 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever type of hormone or birth control, that is. 21:50.688 --> 22:13.043 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about the research findings organized study by study and of course if you want all of the references they're associated with the Ashwaganda article that's on my substack and my patreon so that there's a both pay world because this takes a lot of time and effort to research and happy to do it free on the podcast but if you want all of the research you can head over there for the full article and you have all of the references available to you there. 22:13.403 --> 22:27.795 [SPEAKER_00]: So, an Indian Journal of Psychological Medicine in 2012, they had 64 adults with chronic stress, they randomized 300 milligrams twice daily of a higher concentration of root extract, KSM66 versus placebo for 60 days. 22:28.155 --> 22:30.777 [SPEAKER_00]: The result was a 27.9 reduction in serum 22:31.838 --> 22:35.160 [SPEAKER_00]: in comparison with 7.9 in the placebo. 22:35.180 --> 22:42.783 [SPEAKER_00]: So the group that took Ashwood Gander, we're seeing a 27.9 percent reduction in serum cortisol compared to the placebo who didn't have any. 22:43.083 --> 22:46.865 [SPEAKER_00]: Another study in 2000 and 25, it was a metronolysis. 22:47.205 --> 22:58.850 [SPEAKER_00]: So metronolysis is basically going, what are all of the randomized control trials that have already happened, how can we pull all these this data together and make a huge study so we can actually make conclusions and correlations. 22:59.270 --> 23:00.872 [SPEAKER_00]: from this work. 23:01.213 --> 23:08.782 [SPEAKER_00]: So they had in that study 873 participants, which is huge at eight weeks, and they found significant reductions in anxiety. 23:08.963 --> 23:13.428 [SPEAKER_00]: They also found reductions in perceived stress, serum cortisol, as well. 23:13.468 --> 23:14.289 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really great. 23:14.890 --> 23:20.878 [SPEAKER_00]: Another meta analysis using nine trials with doses from 125 to 600 milligrams a day. 23:20.919 --> 23:23.602 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a huge discrepancy in dosage there. 23:23.642 --> 23:29.811 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to say for 30 to 90 days again, huge discrepancy in how long people are on this study for. 23:30.251 --> 23:34.913 [SPEAKER_00]: They found consistent reductions in perceived stress and anxiety, serum cortisol, as well. 23:34.973 --> 23:41.375 [SPEAKER_00]: So these really genuine studies that we're seeing in reductions of anxiety and stress, what about sleep? 23:41.595 --> 23:47.938 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's moderate evidence for this, not as strong I would say, as for perceived stress and cortisol. 23:48.778 --> 23:55.961 [SPEAKER_00]: But it is dose dependent, I have to say, and also alongside this, Ari Veda has been talking about Ashwaganda and its benefits for sleep for thousands of years. 23:56.341 --> 24:04.344 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think there is something to say about how we're dosing and the different interactions that Ashwaganda has with different parts of the plant alongside that as well. 24:04.364 --> 24:10.266 [SPEAKER_00]: So I will say that that I think it's really interesting that we have moderate evidence of Ashwaganda in sleep, but we have stronger evidence for something else. 24:10.606 --> 24:16.828 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's because of how we're dosing and what parts of the plant that we're using and how we're dosing in what parts, et cetera. 24:17.402 --> 24:30.378 [SPEAKER_00]: So in 2021 a study published in close one, it was a systematic review and meta analysis with five RCTs with a total of 400 participants with the pool defect on overall sleep quality being small but significant. 24:30.458 --> 24:32.260 [SPEAKER_00]: So 0.59 with a 95% confidence interval. 24:32.280 --> 24:32.520 [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty good. 24:32.560 --> 24:32.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Not bad. 24:35.986 --> 24:44.193 [SPEAKER_00]: But most pronounced in diagnosed insomnia are doses of 600 milligrams a day for eight weeks, four or five trials used KSM 66. 24:44.353 --> 24:47.155 [SPEAKER_00]: This is real but modest and the threshold is really dependent. 24:47.376 --> 24:54.541 [SPEAKER_00]: So there is lower doses here, closer to the under 300 mark, and they were unlikely to replicate the sleep benefits. 24:54.562 --> 25:02.208 [SPEAKER_00]: So under 300 milligrams are not seeing any benefit for sleep, but over and closer to 300 to 400 milligrams, we're seeing moderate impacts on sleep. 25:02.488 --> 25:07.392 [SPEAKER_00]: and we're seeing that mostly affecting the groups of people who had in Somia for longer periods of time. 25:07.552 --> 25:10.535 [SPEAKER_00]: What about exercise performance and strength? 25:10.835 --> 25:18.762 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think a lot of people think about Ashwaganda and its associations with exercise and strength that remember Ashwaganda's smell of the horse. 25:18.942 --> 25:27.710 [SPEAKER_00]: Ancient Arivedic texts have realized this for a really long time that Ashwaganda is associated with improvements in strength and vitality and we're seeing this represented in the studies. 25:28.030 --> 25:28.931 [SPEAKER_00]: here as well. 25:29.511 --> 25:45.725 [SPEAKER_00]: So in 2015, in the Journal of International Society of Sports and Nutrition, they took 57 untrained young men, so this might not be applicable to women unfortunately, in an eight-week resistance training, and they used 300 milligrams twice daily, so that's 600 milligrams a day. 25:45.805 --> 25:51.890 [SPEAKER_00]: So this study, they saw greater increases in one bench press, so one big push of branch press. 25:51.930 --> 25:56.854 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you can imagine the most, you can bench press and just doing one 25:57.494 --> 25:57.895 [SPEAKER_00]: of that. 25:58.056 --> 26:00.562 [SPEAKER_00]: So they saw improvements in the municipality to do. 26:01.075 --> 26:05.577 [SPEAKER_00]: a higher amount of weight in one rep of a bench press, which is pretty cool. 26:05.837 --> 26:14.460 [SPEAKER_00]: This study also found that leg extension, strength, also increased muscle cross-sectional area and serums of testosterone all increased as well. 26:14.480 --> 26:17.641 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's a male study, not necessarily applicable to women. 26:18.021 --> 26:26.224 [SPEAKER_00]: You could also argue that the reason why those effects were so pronounced in men is because echeloconic increases testosterone and testosterone increases muscle mass in men. 26:26.384 --> 26:28.305 [SPEAKER_00]: So that might not be applicable to women. 26:29.385 --> 26:32.107 [SPEAKER_00]: replicated in women to see if we see the same effect. 26:32.408 --> 26:45.859 [SPEAKER_00]: In a mixed sex eight-week RCT where they took 600 milligrams a day, improvements in muscle strength muscle size, VO2 max, one of the few trials included women, those sex stratified strength results were not well reported. 26:45.919 --> 26:49.723 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, guys, why are you not sex aggregating your data? 26:49.803 --> 26:52.485 [SPEAKER_00]: It is 2026, get it together. 26:53.106 --> 26:54.847 [SPEAKER_00]: This is genuine and strong, but 26:56.909 --> 27:05.876 [SPEAKER_00]: Going back to thyroid function, so Sharma Basso and Singer in 2018 in the Journal of Alternative and Complimentary Medicine, one of my favorite journals I will say. 27:05.896 --> 27:13.062 [SPEAKER_00]: 50 participants with subclinical hypotheraidism, so they had really high TSH and they had lower T3 and T4 output. 27:13.423 --> 27:18.327 [SPEAKER_00]: They took 600 milligrams a day of dry root extract versus placebo for eight weeks. 27:18.827 --> 27:23.751 [SPEAKER_00]: TSH improves significantly, p-value of 0.001, that's really great. 27:26.373 --> 27:37.200 [SPEAKER_00]: to normal, and both T3 and T4 increased significantly from baseline, and T3 specifically increased by an average of 41.5, that is fucking cool. 27:37.560 --> 27:38.600 [SPEAKER_00]: That's really, really great. 27:38.961 --> 27:39.661 [SPEAKER_00]: That's wonderful. 27:39.741 --> 27:45.485 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you're thinking about taking Ashbaganda to improve T3 T4 and decrease your TSH, could be great. 27:45.745 --> 27:49.707 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's also an argument for fertility as well, because we know that when 27:51.388 --> 27:52.970 [SPEAKER_00]: T3 and T4 are low. 27:53.070 --> 28:05.806 [SPEAKER_00]: We have pretty poor fertility outcomes because the body just can't access energy and metabolize energy in an efficient way to grow a fetus which is the most metabolically demanding process of both human beings that we know of. 28:06.146 --> 28:08.930 [SPEAKER_00]: So if your body is in that subset of thyroid health, 28:09.330 --> 28:11.051 [SPEAKER_00]: then fertility outcomes will be decreased. 28:11.392 --> 28:22.140 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's why online, it did a bit of a doom scroll this morning on Ashwaganda, and also a bunch of really funny posts of the girlies online saying, you know, the side effect of Ashwaganda is that you're for pregnant easily. 28:22.500 --> 28:23.200 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe this is why. 28:23.260 --> 28:24.341 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's anecdotal. 28:24.721 --> 28:25.402 [SPEAKER_00]: That's anecdotal. 28:25.622 --> 28:29.165 [SPEAKER_00]: As I said before, emails previously PCOS, let's talk about it. 28:29.205 --> 28:30.706 [SPEAKER_00]: It's merging and it's largely 28:31.226 --> 28:31.987 [SPEAKER_00]: extrapolated. 28:32.328 --> 28:35.511 [SPEAKER_00]: I will say, of course, because we just don't study women enough. 28:36.072 --> 28:49.448 [SPEAKER_00]: But in 2026 study, it was a narrative review, including Ashwaganda has a strong candidate for supportive treatment for PCOS, PMOS, and PMS, so potentially PMDD as well, I think a lot of women listening to this. 28:49.968 --> 28:55.114 [SPEAKER_00]: are taking Ashburg under 4 p.m. DD and they're saying that it has good effect and this could possibly be why. 28:55.575 --> 29:06.848 [SPEAKER_00]: And the reasoning is because the HPA access modulation, it lowers cortisol, it has metabolic effects and GABA-nergic activity, but explicit that it is relying heavily on pre-clinical models. 29:07.308 --> 29:13.673 [SPEAKER_00]: and extrapolation, rather than dedicated trials in diagnosed women with PMOS, PMS and PMDD. 29:14.053 --> 29:20.598 [SPEAKER_00]: And it also confirms that Shoganda does not appear to elevate testosterone in women, so again, another study confirming that finding. 29:20.818 --> 29:36.030 [SPEAKER_00]: In 2020, in a small, related, small pilot study, a 12-week studies in reporting improvement in reproductive hormone markers and home at IR, so insulin resistant markers in women, all those sample sizes are small and not yet replicated at scale, so that's really cool. 29:36.390 --> 29:40.853 [SPEAKER_00]: we love to see a pilot study because it means that there's more interest in replicating it again. 29:41.073 --> 29:43.734 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so what about the emerging safety findings? 29:43.834 --> 29:50.498 [SPEAKER_00]: Because at this point in time, Ashwaganda has a precarious placement in the EU and a few other countries across the world. 29:50.538 --> 29:51.359 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get into it. 29:51.419 --> 29:53.720 [SPEAKER_00]: So the first one is liver injury. 29:54.100 --> 29:55.381 [SPEAKER_00]: hepatotoxicity. 29:55.581 --> 29:59.483 [SPEAKER_00]: So Phillips liver research club India at L in 2023. 29:59.563 --> 30:01.805 [SPEAKER_00]: They published in hepatology Communications. 30:02.145 --> 30:15.513 [SPEAKER_00]: There were case series of eight liver injuries attributed to a single ingredient Ashwaganda product of 23 of total internationally reported cases and predominantly cholesterol, static hepatitis pattern male predominance. 30:15.833 --> 30:21.919 [SPEAKER_00]: So the onset of liver toxicity that we're seeing in these people using a single ingredient Ashwaganda product. 30:21.939 --> 30:29.447 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's basically saying if we know it was the Ashwaganda we're seeing risks associated with this and we've seen 23 cases reported total. 30:29.687 --> 30:31.229 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's going to be a lot more than that. 30:31.289 --> 30:43.702 [SPEAKER_00]: Typically we're seeing these symptoms of liver injury within two to 12 weeks of starting supplementation and there's rare cases of acute liver failure requiring transplantation and have been reported internationally. 30:43.782 --> 30:45.484 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's really quite scary. 30:45.984 --> 30:53.152 [SPEAKER_00]: The proposed mechanism here is with analities, bind to hepatocyte proteins and DNA forming adults. 30:53.512 --> 31:00.195 [SPEAKER_00]: and deplete glutathione, which is the liver's primary intracellular antioxidant and detox co-factor. 31:00.515 --> 31:13.362 [SPEAKER_00]: So if we don't have glutathione around reactive oxygen species, also known as rose, chemically rip around the liver and cause a lot of damage, and the liver can't heal itself and it becomes more of a toxic environment. 31:13.982 --> 31:31.345 [SPEAKER_00]: Depleted glutathione leaves the liver more vulnerable to oxidative injury and it may explain why we're seeing all these cases possibly lead to individual variation of glutathione S transferase polymorphisms aka Westeeing structural damage in DNA and the protein. 31:31.725 --> 31:48.140 [SPEAKER_00]: TGA safety advisory in Australia in the 22nd February of 2024, so only two years ago, 12 reports of liver problems in withania consumers, 7 assessed as likely liver injuries and 4 requiring hospitalization with no contributing ingredients identified. 31:48.560 --> 32:00.646 [SPEAKER_00]: separately, 16-hopper-spitalizations linked to severe GI reactions like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea, that might be the nightshade interaction that I was talking about earlier, and some of these were after a single dose. 32:00.766 --> 32:04.947 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of them were taken for long periods of time, and some of them weren't as well. 32:05.268 --> 32:13.531 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's pretty scary and should be very concerning to all of us, and I think that really speaks to the just because it's natural doesn't mean it's necessarily safe, 32:15.012 --> 32:22.803 [SPEAKER_00]: Being taking actual ground for a while and you're noticing some symptoms that you don't like, please stop taking it and talk to a health provider before you continue. 32:22.903 --> 32:28.170 [SPEAKER_00]: Alongside liver injury, we're also seeing HPA access suppression and cushion guide presentations. 32:28.771 --> 32:30.714 [SPEAKER_00]: The 2026 case report is here. 32:31.434 --> 32:43.278 [SPEAKER_00]: So in 2026 and Reconology Diabetes and Metabolism case reports, in this case report, they had a 55-year-old post-menopause woman with progressive weight gain and cushion-goid features, which is a moon face. 32:43.438 --> 32:48.780 [SPEAKER_00]: In a way, remember how everyone was talking about cortisol face for a while and I made a few posts about, hey, that's Cushing's Disease. 32:49.440 --> 32:50.340 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a very different thing. 32:50.400 --> 32:55.663 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have a moon face, please contact your provider, don't buy off cortisol kit because that can't be treated at home. 32:55.963 --> 32:56.483 [SPEAKER_00]: Kind of thing. 32:56.824 --> 32:58.304 [SPEAKER_00]: This is kind of what I'm talking about here. 32:58.764 --> 33:08.469 [SPEAKER_00]: So the history of this woman was 950 milligrams of ashwaganda across three syrups, two tablet formations, and a prescribed four knee osteoarthritis continuous for over a year. 33:08.809 --> 33:09.189 [SPEAKER_00]: Crazy. 33:09.489 --> 33:10.510 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a huge dose. 33:10.890 --> 33:14.632 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're taking it in different ways that can increase the bioavailability. 33:15.012 --> 33:17.673 [SPEAKER_00]: in your body and you're taking it with no breaks throughout a year. 33:18.013 --> 33:24.074 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the reason why this happened is because this woman was told and she believed that it's natural therefore it's not dangerous. 33:24.474 --> 33:25.034 [SPEAKER_00]: Big mistake. 33:25.434 --> 33:26.094 [SPEAKER_00]: Big no brainer. 33:26.434 --> 33:39.256 [SPEAKER_00]: The endocrine workup was early early morning cortisol being 0.5 ACT hate in low normal which was 16 PG per milligrams and a blunted cortisol response in the morning at 2.89 and 3.68 at 60 minutes. 33:39.276 --> 33:39.316 [SPEAKER_00]: So 33:42.517 --> 33:48.502 [SPEAKER_00]: 2.89 within 30 minutes of waking up and 3.68 within 60 minutes of waking up. 33:48.902 --> 33:51.764 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is diagnostic of secondary adrenal insufficiency. 33:51.824 --> 33:52.324 [SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean? 33:52.625 --> 33:56.267 [SPEAKER_00]: You're supposed to have your largest amount of cortisol first thing in the morning. 33:56.708 --> 34:01.231 [SPEAKER_00]: So within 30 minutes, it should be halfway up towards max and then within 60 minutes. 34:01.271 --> 34:02.272 [SPEAKER_00]: It should be all the way up. 34:02.292 --> 34:11.098 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's why we say don't drink caffeine within that first 60 minutes of you waking up because it can stop that process and the cortisol that your body gives you first thing in the 34:11.959 --> 34:15.960 [SPEAKER_00]: Be active and awake is far stronger than any caffeine you could have. 34:16.161 --> 34:19.162 [SPEAKER_00]: So this woman had really, really, really low cortisol. 34:19.182 --> 34:27.665 [SPEAKER_00]: So Ashley kind of was blunting her cortisol to a point where it was negatively impacting her circadian rhythm, which governs everything in the body, which is very, very concerning. 34:27.865 --> 34:32.506 [SPEAKER_00]: They also found subclinical hypothyroidism, who TSH was at 7.19. 34:32.666 --> 34:33.547 [SPEAKER_00]: That is, just. 34:33.907 --> 34:36.268 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never seen anyone with the TSH of 7.9. 34:36.308 --> 34:37.008 [SPEAKER_00]: That is crazy. 34:37.348 --> 34:46.410 [SPEAKER_00]: with positive anti-TPO antibodies underlying autoimmune thyroid disease and new onset diabetes with her HP A1C at 6.5%. 34:47.071 --> 34:55.633 [SPEAKER_00]: She started on hydrochordazone at three months, her HPS suppression had not reversed at six months for base or cortisol remained suppressed at 0.48. 34:55.833 --> 34:56.993 [SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty staggering. 34:57.013 --> 34:59.454 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and this is a really good case study. 35:00.154 --> 35:07.796 [SPEAKER_00]: for you to understand that overdoing at Uganda has really huge negative health consequences that you should take very seriously. 35:08.356 --> 35:27.302 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really important to understand also this patient had pre-existing undiagnosed autoimmune thyroid disease and it raises the possibility that people with underlying interchind vulnerabilities like thyroid autoimmunity specifically may be at a disproportionate risk, which is why, yes, okay, if you have Hashimoto's and your T3 and T4 alone, 35:28.482 --> 35:31.583 [SPEAKER_00]: is a little bit high and also your TSH is through the roof. 35:31.903 --> 35:40.666 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Ashwagana on paper sounds like it's going to be great, but Ashwaganda does tend to upregulate our immune system and therefore we can make more and more and more of these antibodies. 35:41.126 --> 35:45.127 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you have any type of autoimmunity, be very, very careful with the type of 35:45.527 --> 35:50.070 [SPEAKER_00]: herbs that you're taking and make sure you're talking about this with your health provider. 35:50.230 --> 36:02.077 [SPEAKER_00]: So, understandably, there has been an international response, so Denmark, Band, Ashwagunder in 2023, they prohibit it in food and supplements based on a 2020 Danish technical university, D.T.U. 36:02.157 --> 36:08.781 [SPEAKER_00]: risk assessment, starting thyroid and six hormone effects and referencing historical contested a Board officant data. 36:08.981 --> 36:10.002 [SPEAKER_00]: So, does it cause 36:12.323 --> 36:17.905 [SPEAKER_00]: There is some data to suggest it that has been contested, but Denmark still banned it based on that. 36:18.086 --> 36:28.250 [SPEAKER_00]: In France, the ANSES Advisory in 2024 advised people with thyroid liver cardiovascular conditions, hyper-androgenism, pregnant women, and those on sedatives to avoid Ashwaganda. 36:28.690 --> 36:32.311 [SPEAKER_00]: The European Union in Article 8 procedure recommended of June 2024, 36:33.692 --> 36:41.914 [SPEAKER_00]: The heads of food safety agencies working group recommended an article 8 procedure under regulation EC number 1925-2006. 36:42.294 --> 36:52.957 [SPEAKER_00]: They can lead the EU wide restrictions citing reproductive effects, thyroid hormone changes and immune effects and liver toxicity in Australia, my stomping ground. 36:53.397 --> 36:59.278 [SPEAKER_00]: The TGA is looking into this ongoing, so the TGA also, no hate to the TGA, but you guys 37:02.299 --> 37:03.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Why you'd be taken so long anyway? 37:04.141 --> 37:18.214 [SPEAKER_00]: Safety advisories are issued on Ashwaganda, no mandated liver injury warnings label yet on withania containing listed medicines, further regulatory action is possible as evidence accumulates, which is really shocking because an Australian woman was in that case study. 37:18.718 --> 37:21.980 [SPEAKER_00]: So and so here's the counter view that comes from India. 37:22.380 --> 37:35.167 [SPEAKER_00]: So an Indian regulatory industry body argues that some risk assessments conflated leaf extracted data with root extract data which have different safety profiles and that historical abortification claims 37:37.989 --> 37:46.955 [SPEAKER_00]: The honest framing for listeners here is case reports and hospitalization data are real and recent, regulatory responses are still ongoing and contested. 37:47.055 --> 37:49.597 [SPEAKER_00]: So we need to understand this a little bit more. 37:49.937 --> 37:51.138 [SPEAKER_00]: And this goes back to another point. 37:51.278 --> 37:53.600 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been circling back a lot in this podcast. 37:53.820 --> 37:58.883 [SPEAKER_00]: How we're using Ashwaganda is very different from how historically I think we have and I think we got to go back to the root. 37:59.043 --> 38:01.685 [SPEAKER_00]: So all of that done, who is this for? 38:02.085 --> 38:03.566 [SPEAKER_00]: So reasonable candidates. 38:03.686 --> 38:04.447 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about it. 38:04.807 --> 38:11.049 [SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, healthy adults experiencing chronic psychological stress with normal baseline thyroid and adrenal function. 38:11.409 --> 38:23.594 [SPEAKER_00]: People with stress-related sleep disturbances, particularly at 600 milligrams a day for standardized extract, underneath personalized guidance of a naturopath, someone who understands herbs or a health provider, okay? 38:23.794 --> 38:30.517 [SPEAKER_00]: Always doing the higher doses under the guidance of someone who knows what they're doing, individuals with confirmed subclinical high 38:34.538 --> 38:41.348 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, men diagnosed with low sperm count and low fertility and generally low testosterone as well. 38:41.688 --> 38:42.529 [SPEAKER_00]: Really strong candidates. 38:42.569 --> 38:42.870 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 38:43.130 --> 38:47.156 [SPEAKER_00]: Also underneath that, possibly PMOS, possibly PMDD, and possibly PM. 38:48.016 --> 38:48.777 [SPEAKER_00]: S, as well. 38:48.837 --> 38:56.602 [SPEAKER_00]: So premenstrual syndrome, not PMDD, really strong candidates based on our theoretical understandings of how this plant works. 38:56.963 --> 39:00.505 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so who avoids Ashwaganda, pregnancy and breastfeeding? 39:00.525 --> 39:01.266 [SPEAKER_00]: You knew it was coming. 39:01.386 --> 39:02.186 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really sorry. 39:02.827 --> 39:05.509 [SPEAKER_00]: Historical, though, contested abortification associations, 39:05.949 --> 39:12.719 [SPEAKER_00]: plus the general principle of avoiding permanently active storodial compounds in pregnancy without robust safe safety data. 39:12.739 --> 39:13.821 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's the same thing again. 39:14.001 --> 39:15.363 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we just don't have a lot of data. 39:15.383 --> 39:20.330 [SPEAKER_00]: No one wants to do the risky thing of doing a randomized control trial on women because 39:21.071 --> 39:22.112 [SPEAKER_00]: The risk is too high. 39:22.232 --> 39:25.496 [SPEAKER_00]: It's possibly very, very unethical to run those studies. 39:25.516 --> 39:28.699 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's very hard for us to find out if it is ever going to be safe. 39:29.080 --> 39:36.888 [SPEAKER_00]: I will also say as well, it might mess up your autoimmunity, it might also mess up your immunity and your immunity changes a lot. 39:37.328 --> 39:40.271 [SPEAKER_00]: throughout pregnancy and the relationship with the growing fetus. 39:40.571 --> 39:43.513 [SPEAKER_00]: So you really don't want to risk it from that perspective as well. 39:43.854 --> 39:48.457 [SPEAKER_00]: Autoimmune thyroid disease, so Hashimoto's and Graves, Hashimoto's, is hypotheraidism. 39:48.538 --> 39:50.259 [SPEAKER_00]: Graves is hypertheraidism. 39:50.739 --> 39:55.243 [SPEAKER_00]: Direct thyroid stimulating effects exacerbate the already disfigulated thyroid axis. 39:55.603 --> 40:03.310 [SPEAKER_00]: Acute liver disease and history of liver injury documented by hepatotoxicity case injuries and the glutathione depletion mechanism. 40:03.650 --> 40:08.452 [SPEAKER_00]: and we need to look to the TGA compliance as well even though they're really slow. 40:08.472 --> 40:11.053 [SPEAKER_00]: We need to make sure in Australia we're looking at that. 40:11.393 --> 40:28.539 [SPEAKER_00]: High-perth aridism so direct thyroid stimulating reasons so it can up-regulate thyroid production so T3 and T4 and it can down-regulate your TSH so that's why and other autoimmune conditions immune modulating and mood stimulating properties could theoretically aggravate autoimmune activities. 40:28.899 --> 40:34.684 [SPEAKER_00]: Just generally, if you have an autoimmune condition, I will be very careful if not avoid actual kind of altogether. 40:34.724 --> 40:36.345 [SPEAKER_00]: There are better herbs that you can be taking. 40:36.385 --> 40:39.047 [SPEAKER_00]: We will be talking about them in due time on this podcast. 40:39.267 --> 40:43.951 [SPEAKER_00]: Alongside that as well, if you have preexisting adrenal insufficiency or hatred or access dysfunction, 40:44.331 --> 40:54.814 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're burnt out, if you have a prolonged high use of quarter-growth steroid use, in that 2026 case report suggests that this population may be a disproportionate risk of further HBA suppression. 40:54.874 --> 41:02.497 [SPEAKER_00]: So remember, as your gun is a down regulator on your HBA system, if you're post-burner, it might not be the best thing for you to be taking right now. 41:02.697 --> 41:11.221 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, if you're taking other drugs, so thyroid medications, sedatives, benzodiazepines, and other CNS depressants, GABA-Nurgic mechanism medications as well. 41:11.501 --> 41:19.545 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, diabetes medications, so insulin, metformin, wouldn't take ash-regarner along side that, and a high-petensive medication as well, because 41:19.945 --> 41:26.471 [SPEAKER_00]: There is theoretically Ashwaganda can impact blood pressure lowering effects, and so we don't want to double down on that. 41:26.791 --> 41:31.755 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, immunosuppressant medication because Ashwaganda stimulates your immune system. 41:31.795 --> 41:43.945 [SPEAKER_00]: So, if you're taking immunosuppressants for Ashwaganda because you have an autoimmune initiative and then you take Ashwaganda to upregulate it, you might just be wasting your money in two different directions and then causing your body a whole lot of havoc as well. 41:44.145 --> 41:45.785 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so what's the practical diet? 41:45.805 --> 41:46.846 [SPEAKER_00]: God, what's the dosine? 41:46.866 --> 41:49.006 [SPEAKER_00]: What part of the plant should we be using? 41:49.186 --> 41:52.767 [SPEAKER_00]: So standardised extracts, not all Ashroganda is the same product. 41:52.807 --> 41:55.748 [SPEAKER_00]: So there are three or four different types that you'll see. 41:55.808 --> 41:58.068 [SPEAKER_00]: So number one is your KSM66. 41:58.128 --> 42:02.409 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the root only, full spectrum extract with 5% with analogs. 42:02.829 --> 42:05.330 [SPEAKER_00]: And it has a low temperature solvent free extraction. 42:05.690 --> 42:11.811 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's by far the best studied extract used in most of these cortisol studies used in most of 42:12.331 --> 42:15.052 [SPEAKER_00]: the testosterone studies in men as well. 42:15.372 --> 42:31.116 [SPEAKER_00]: So the typical dosing is 600 milligrams twice daily, so 600 milligrams a day total, but I would say if you're in that safe group and you're working with someone, just start with 300 milligrams, okay, you don't have to go straight for the 600, I think a lot of us in the modern world are quite extreme. 42:31.477 --> 42:32.837 [SPEAKER_00]: I think just start low, 42:33.217 --> 42:40.745 [SPEAKER_00]: hydrate low with herbs always and then slowly work your way up because if you get a really good effect at 300 milligrams, that's great. 42:40.845 --> 42:45.250 [SPEAKER_00]: You're saving money, you're using less, and you've already found a titration that works well for your body. 42:45.570 --> 42:50.395 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, another type of extract is no trium, also known as sensoril. 42:50.815 --> 42:52.976 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a root and leaf extract. 42:52.996 --> 43:04.619 [SPEAKER_00]: It has 10% with that allots, and it hasn't lower absolute dose, so 125 to 250 milligrams a day, because it has doubled the amount of with that allots in it. 43:04.639 --> 43:07.319 [SPEAKER_00]: So we want to use a little bit less anecdotally. 43:07.359 --> 43:11.941 [SPEAKER_00]: These are far more sedating than KSM66 possibly related to the leaf components. 43:11.981 --> 43:17.002 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's what those Indian regulatory bodies we're talking about was yes, you can write this case reports. 43:17.342 --> 43:23.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, we should use Ashwaganda safely, but what part of the plan to using because they both have different effects on the body? 43:23.266 --> 43:33.293 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's where sensorial kind of comes in so you can take a lower dose and take it closer to bedtime and you could use that as a possible sedator, too full asleep easier as well. 43:33.653 --> 43:38.857 [SPEAKER_00]: There's also Shoden, which is the root and leaf extract, and it has a really, really, really high 43:39.277 --> 43:49.185 [SPEAKER_00]: with that old concentration at 35% allowing much lower doses at 120 to 200 and fully milligrams a day, even that I probably would even be taking. 43:49.525 --> 43:55.430 [SPEAKER_00]: I would probably only be taking like 50 milligrams a day of that because it's so strong and I wouldn't be taking it in the day girl. 43:55.690 --> 43:58.452 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm, no, no, no, be taking that one at night, for sure. 43:58.632 --> 44:04.134 [SPEAKER_00]: Key takeaway here is, yeah, you can focus on how many milligrams it is, but what extract is it? 44:04.514 --> 44:05.534 [SPEAKER_00]: How was it extracted? 44:05.934 --> 44:06.955 [SPEAKER_00]: Is the leaf in there? 44:07.155 --> 44:07.895 [SPEAKER_00]: Is there root? 44:08.235 --> 44:10.176 [SPEAKER_00]: Also alongside that, is it organic? 44:10.616 --> 44:18.098 [SPEAKER_00]: Because hardcore Arriveda nuts will also tell you the microbiome on the root interacts with how it helps you understand. 44:18.511 --> 44:20.432 [SPEAKER_00]: and meld with that herb. 44:20.772 --> 44:22.793 [SPEAKER_00]: So I would always go organic root extract. 44:22.833 --> 44:24.933 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I've used previously and I've really liked it. 44:25.013 --> 44:28.695 [SPEAKER_00]: I've used the alcohol glycerin based extracts as well. 44:28.835 --> 44:34.137 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just, I don't know, I just haven't felt any huge benefit with them personally, but that's just me. 44:34.197 --> 44:35.777 [SPEAKER_00]: That's totally anecdotal. 44:35.977 --> 44:37.958 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let's dose based on go. 44:38.218 --> 44:39.799 [SPEAKER_00]: So stress anxiety in cortisol. 44:40.219 --> 44:45.501 [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the data we have shows 300 milligrams twice daily, so 600 milligrams a day. 44:45.901 --> 44:50.182 [SPEAKER_00]: of KSM66 type extracts for at least eight weeks before assessing effects. 44:50.702 --> 45:00.864 [SPEAKER_00]: Sleep is 600 milligrams a day sustained for at least eight weeks, lower doses unlikely to replicate meta-analysis findings and also different extracts, right? 45:00.944 --> 45:11.247 [SPEAKER_00]: So you don't really want to be using that root extract for sleep, because you could be using that leaf and root extract together and taking it closer to bedtime, and because it has a higher amount of 45:12.507 --> 45:14.908 [SPEAKER_00]: extract in it and that could help you sleep. 45:15.369 --> 45:22.373 [SPEAKER_00]: And also the sleep data we have suggests that sleep benefits are only in those who have previously had insomnia. 45:22.533 --> 45:23.913 [SPEAKER_00]: So look into that data. 45:24.053 --> 45:30.277 [SPEAKER_00]: Subclinical hypothyroidism, again, under supervision at 600 milligrams a day root extract for eight weeks. 45:30.677 --> 45:35.220 [SPEAKER_00]: So that's the Sharma 2018 protocol and repeat thyroid panels at this point. 45:35.680 --> 45:40.943 [SPEAKER_00]: And general exploratory use, you can start at 300 milligrams a day and tie trade up after one to two weeks. 45:41.303 --> 45:45.269 [SPEAKER_00]: to assess tolerance possibly GI because it's part of the Nightshade family. 45:45.289 --> 45:53.381 [SPEAKER_00]: You might not like the Nightshade family before reaching a full dose and if you're just using it to use it, if you're like, okay, I have my exams. 45:54.050 --> 45:55.731 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to use it over that period of time. 45:55.751 --> 45:57.733 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to start taking it for two weeks before that. 45:57.793 --> 45:59.974 [SPEAKER_00]: So I stay cool, come and collect it. 46:00.254 --> 46:00.915 [SPEAKER_00]: That's great. 46:01.255 --> 46:10.862 [SPEAKER_00]: If you are trying to take it after a period of time with your stress, I would wait a little bit until you kind of come back to a normal regulation of a system regulation before you introduce it for example. 46:11.702 --> 46:12.643 [SPEAKER_00]: timing and cycling. 46:12.683 --> 46:13.824 [SPEAKER_00]: This is also really important. 46:13.844 --> 46:16.285 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't just stay on Ashwaganda forever. 46:16.745 --> 46:17.866 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to go off and on. 46:17.886 --> 46:22.069 [SPEAKER_00]: So cycling is typically 8 to 12 weeks on two to four weeks off. 46:22.229 --> 46:24.850 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're on it for 12 weeks, don't just go off it for two weeks. 46:25.211 --> 46:27.412 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're on it for 12 weeks, you need to take a whole month off. 46:27.772 --> 46:30.774 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're on it for eight weeks, you need to take at least two weeks off. 46:31.114 --> 46:35.197 [SPEAKER_00]: You can't just go maximum and minimum, but this doesn't work that way. 46:35.677 --> 46:49.728 [SPEAKER_00]: I will also say that cycling is not directly evidence-based, the no trial has tested cycled versus continuous dosing, but essentially all the efficiency trials run for 8 to 12 weeks and the 2026 case report involved continuous use for over a year. 46:49.768 --> 46:54.232 [SPEAKER_00]: So cycling is a reasonable precaution, pending better long-term data. 46:54.412 --> 46:57.533 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so how can I find a good Ashwaganda product? 46:57.634 --> 47:02.016 [SPEAKER_00]: So choose a product naming with its standardised extract at KSM66. 47:02.136 --> 47:11.660 [SPEAKER_00]: It should also say whether it's sensorial, showed in or equivalent, and it also should have a stated with anode percentage, not just Ashwaganda root powder. 47:11.700 --> 47:14.341 [SPEAKER_00]: That's just like the Burberryin podcast we did last time. 47:14.601 --> 47:17.082 [SPEAKER_00]: If it just says Burberryin root powder, what does that mean? 47:17.443 --> 47:22.505 [SPEAKER_00]: Because Burberryin has so many different sources, Ashwaganda has so many different ways that you could be taking it. 47:22.765 --> 47:29.270 [SPEAKER_00]: And you want to be making sure you're taking the right extract for the right purpose underneath the right dosage for the around right amount of time. 47:29.450 --> 47:39.797 [SPEAKER_00]: Look for third party testing, particularly heavy metals, are evaded curable products from certain regions have been documented historically of contamination of lead mercury and arsenic in some batches. 47:39.857 --> 47:49.564 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's really amazing to want to support Indian companies because this is where it's from, you know, you want to honor that but also make sure that if you're buying it from that region 47:52.402 --> 47:57.464 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to know about the one that I take, I have an eye herb and I pop up all of the supplements that I take there. 47:57.484 --> 47:58.885 [SPEAKER_00]: I think eye herb gets a lot of shit. 47:59.805 --> 48:11.291 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, some of the supplements on there really, really suck, but I think if you're trying to save money and you want 10% off, you can click the link in this hood cast buyer and you can get 10% off your first order of echelganda. 48:11.311 --> 48:14.812 [SPEAKER_00]: And I personally use the echelganda that I have on my eye herb as well. 48:15.053 --> 48:19.675 [SPEAKER_00]: So go ahead and use that underneath the very strict guidance of a health practitioner. 48:19.875 --> 48:20.215 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 48:20.615 --> 48:38.305 [SPEAKER_00]: And remember, if you want any of the references for this podcast head over to my sub-second Patreon and you can find the Ashwaganda article that goes with this podcast with all of the references written there and you can also read the article which is really interesting and I've written down everything and more that I've talked about here on this podcast today. 48:40.222 --> 48:44.504 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for taking the time out of your busy day to listen to this episode. 48:44.584 --> 48:48.946 [SPEAKER_00]: If you loved it, please remember to like, subscribe, and send to a loved one. 48:49.306 --> 49:00.030 [SPEAKER_00]: If you want to learn more from our quaman, please check out the website at arquaman.com.au where you can find a pothora of offerings like charts, master classes, courses, and organic clothing. 49:00.411 --> 49:03.532 [SPEAKER_00]: You can also head over to patreon.com slash arquaman. 49:03.973 --> 49:07.319 [SPEAKER_00]: or sub-stack.com slash our comment to join the community. 49:07.580 --> 49:14.033 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you have a really beautiful morning, afternoon or evening wherever you are in the world and I will see you on the next episode.