WEBVTT 00:06.105 --> 00:08.427 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lord of the Rings' lorecast. 00:09.327 --> 00:14.831 [SPEAKER_00]: The show that explores the background of Tolkien's amazing world, from the very beginning. 00:23.783 --> 00:27.765 [SPEAKER_00]: have you ever wondered why we have nightmares? 00:28.405 --> 00:41.610 [SPEAKER_00]: Why would it make any sense at all for our brains while we are sleeping to think about things that scare us, especially in ways where we have very little ability to do anything about it? 00:42.150 --> 00:51.452 [SPEAKER_00]: And yes, I know that lucid dreaming is a thing and that some people have mastered that, but for most of us, when we have a nightmare, it's just something that we have to endure. 00:51.872 --> 01:01.675 [SPEAKER_00]: And oftentimes, we wake up in a cold sweat or a little bit panicked worried that the thing that we are scared of in our dreams might actually be real. 01:02.175 --> 01:05.015 [SPEAKER_00]: So why would our brains put us through this? 01:05.195 --> 01:06.196 [SPEAKER_00]: What is the point of that? 01:06.476 --> 01:11.717 [SPEAKER_00]: And what does it have in common with childhood games like hide and seek? 01:12.497 --> 01:23.904 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, some scientists would say that the reason why we both play games like Hide and Seek but also have nightmares is because it is an evolutionary advantage. 01:24.585 --> 01:31.969 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, saying that also sounds a little bit weird, how is there an evolutionary advantage to scaring yourself while you're supposed to be resting? 01:32.570 --> 01:34.091 [SPEAKER_00]: But it makes sense when you think about it. 01:34.611 --> 01:46.614 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's take, for example, a common nightmare that I'm sure many people would have had, especially in the ancient world, that you are being hunted by some sort of massive beast, some sort of monster. 01:46.694 --> 01:50.155 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, a big tiger or a lion or a wolf. 01:50.615 --> 02:00.477 [SPEAKER_00]: Something's coming after you, and you either have to fight back or you have to run away, but you have to do something because if you don't do something about this, you will be dead. 02:01.277 --> 02:12.103 [SPEAKER_00]: Now how often do we actually get to practice those types of situations in the real world without actually dying like in a safe scenario? 02:12.424 --> 02:16.086 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason for when you take martial arts that you wear pads. 02:16.426 --> 02:28.193 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason why when you're practicing with weapons like handheld weapons like swords and axes and things like that, you start off with versions of those weapons that don't actually hurt anybody. 02:28.793 --> 02:34.519 [SPEAKER_00]: because you have to practice to get to the point where you can actually survive the real situation. 02:35.240 --> 02:42.528 [SPEAKER_00]: But if the real situation is that deadly, then when do you ever get to practice hiding from a monster? 02:42.548 --> 02:44.009 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the answer is... 02:44.710 --> 02:48.213 [SPEAKER_00]: in childhood games, or in your dreams. 02:48.953 --> 03:00.402 [SPEAKER_00]: If we can simulate through childhood games, the act of hiding from some sort of danger that's out to get us, then we will be better at it when that danger actually arrives. 03:00.982 --> 03:07.728 [SPEAKER_00]: And scientists would say that nightmares work the same way if you can confront the things that you are scared of the most. 03:08.388 --> 03:15.359 [SPEAKER_00]: In a nightmare, then technically that is a safe scenario for you to practice before it actually happens. 03:15.990 --> 03:18.912 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, of course, not every nightmare ever comes true. 03:19.172 --> 03:25.077 [SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you have nightmares about, I don't know, giving a speech and being naked in front of a whole bunch of people or something like that. 03:25.437 --> 03:33.503 [SPEAKER_00]: And the chances of those nightmares coming true are not particularly likely, but the emotional centers of our brains don't realize that. 03:33.864 --> 03:36.085 [SPEAKER_00]: They just know that there's something we're scared of. 03:36.466 --> 03:41.870 [SPEAKER_00]: And if we practice responding to that fear, we are more likely to survive it if it ever happens. 03:42.550 --> 03:45.391 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so what does this have to do with today's episode of the show? 03:45.952 --> 03:49.273 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we end up in a situation with Frodo and Sam and Pippin. 03:49.794 --> 03:55.477 [SPEAKER_00]: One that's very similar to what happens in the movie, but is different in a few different keyways, and we'll go into those details. 03:56.117 --> 04:03.661 [SPEAKER_00]: But we have a situation here where there are instincts to hide when they feel that there's something not quite right. 04:04.501 --> 04:05.522 [SPEAKER_00]: is what saves them. 04:06.022 --> 04:21.789 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, at this point in the journey, they're not really concerned that there's any dangers that the, I mean, Frodo knows that he has to get to safety and that the ring has been revealed and that people know the location, but he doesn't know that he's being hunted yet. 04:22.369 --> 04:27.512 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet, even though they don't know this, they still have a gut instinct to hide. 04:28.012 --> 04:29.972 [SPEAKER_00]: when things feel not quite right. 04:30.393 --> 04:36.774 [SPEAKER_00]: Then I get pictures of them being young little hobbits playing hide and seek, or dealing with their nightmares. 04:37.254 --> 04:39.475 [SPEAKER_00]: And those are the kinds of things that prepare you. 04:39.935 --> 04:48.457 [SPEAKER_00]: For the very first time, you realize that you are being hunted by a ring-raith, by a nasgoole. 04:49.057 --> 04:52.198 [SPEAKER_00]: And the only thing that would have saved you was hiding. 04:52.738 --> 04:53.818 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's get into the details. 05:09.893 --> 05:15.458 [SPEAKER_00]: So Frodo Sam and Pippin are now continuing their journey across the Shire to Woody End. 05:15.618 --> 05:17.380 [SPEAKER_00]: They're heading into the East. 05:17.880 --> 05:23.766 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're reminded by Tolkien at this part of the chapter that this is not a road that many people travel. 05:23.926 --> 05:30.492 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, they haven't seen other people or carts or horses or ponies, anything like that in quite a while. 05:30.972 --> 05:41.375 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, the actual phrase that Tolkien uses here, and this is immediately interesting to me, is so far, they had not met a soul on the road. 05:42.135 --> 05:47.316 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't say a person, he says a soul, and yes, everybody understands what that means, right? 05:47.576 --> 05:55.238 [SPEAKER_00]: That is a common phrase for meaning that you haven't come across any person, anybody, but Tolkien chooses his words carefully. 05:55.718 --> 06:07.183 [SPEAKER_00]: This is both informative and foreshadowing at the same time in the subtlest of ways, because when we think of Nazgul, when we think of the ring rates, we don't think of people. 06:07.703 --> 06:11.345 [SPEAKER_00]: These are not flesh and body human beings. 06:11.405 --> 06:15.067 [SPEAKER_00]: They are not or no longer actual men. 06:15.747 --> 06:17.448 [SPEAKER_00]: They are something else. 06:17.968 --> 06:23.030 [SPEAKER_00]: They are the remnants of their very tortured souls that have been stripped 06:24.571 --> 06:28.814 [SPEAKER_00]: and are now simply spirits that are bound to Sauron's service. 06:29.275 --> 06:36.480 [SPEAKER_00]: The Hobbits may not have met any people on the road or souls, and they're not about to meet a person. 06:36.500 --> 06:39.803 [SPEAKER_00]: They're about to meet something that is just 06:40.423 --> 06:47.786 [SPEAKER_00]: a soul, a soul covered, like the images of death, like the grim reaper in a dark shroud. 06:48.227 --> 06:57.351 [SPEAKER_00]: But they don't know this yet, and remember, Frodo did see the ring-rath have a conversation with the old gaffer before he left, but he wasn't sure what that was. 06:57.611 --> 07:00.352 [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't really realize what was going on there. 07:00.632 --> 07:07.736 [SPEAKER_00]: He thought it was just some odd person being curious about what was going on, but it didn't quite feel right. 07:08.116 --> 07:19.366 [SPEAKER_00]: But as we've seen, he isn't too panicked yet, he's not too worried, and is mostly just being careful about other hobbits and the kinds of people who would just be nosy about his business. 07:19.786 --> 07:23.670 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't yet know that he is being hunted, and yet he is. 07:24.170 --> 07:33.938 [SPEAKER_00]: Sam's the first to notice, they get to kind of this open flat area, and Sam stops and listens, and he says, I can hear a pony or a horse coming along the road behind. 07:34.639 --> 07:37.820 [SPEAKER_00]: which, again, was unexpected in this part of the Shire. 07:38.320 --> 07:48.203 [SPEAKER_00]: And so they look back, but there's no way for them to see it because the road goes around a bend and had it been a straight path then they would have been able to see much further. 07:48.463 --> 07:55.665 [SPEAKER_00]: And their first instinct is to think that maybe this is Gandalf, maybe this is good news, maybe he's been following them and been able to catch up. 07:56.245 --> 07:58.266 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, that is a little bit tricky. 07:58.306 --> 08:03.190 [SPEAKER_00]: How did Gandalf know exactly the path they would have taken because they didn't like leave him a map. 08:03.250 --> 08:06.071 [SPEAKER_00]: They just basically discussed where they were going. 08:06.812 --> 08:09.734 [SPEAKER_00]: So that isn't the most likely answer to the question here. 08:10.134 --> 08:10.895 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get this. 08:11.495 --> 08:13.236 [SPEAKER_00]: Frodo hesitated for a second. 08:13.596 --> 08:18.540 [SPEAKER_00]: Curiosity or some other feeling was struggling with his desire to hide. 08:19.220 --> 08:27.606 [SPEAKER_00]: The sound of hoofs, drew near, just in time, he threw himself down in a patch of long grass behind a tree that overshadowed the road. 08:28.146 --> 08:32.029 [SPEAKER_00]: Then he lifted his head and peered cautiously above one of the great roots. 08:32.730 --> 08:40.415 [SPEAKER_00]: Now Frodo in this situation is now starting to feel the temptations of the ring, but he can't identify what that feeling is. 08:40.716 --> 08:42.137 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not really used to it yet. 08:42.777 --> 09:00.743 [SPEAKER_00]: His gut instinct here, and like I talked about at the beginning of the show, maybe developed through childhood games, and just the kind of common things that people would have dealt with, because he was not an adventurer, he's not somebody who knew the science to look for when they were in danger or being followed. 09:01.044 --> 09:07.006 [SPEAKER_00]: He has the instinct to go hide, and yet there's something else he has to struggle with that's telling him not to. 09:07.846 --> 09:16.270 [SPEAKER_00]: the horse rounds the corner and we get a glimpse of something that is clearly not supposed to be here. 09:16.970 --> 09:20.412 [SPEAKER_00]: Not a Hobbit Pony but a full-sized horse. 09:21.092 --> 09:33.458 [SPEAKER_00]: The text says, and on it sat a large man who seemed to crouch in the saddle wrapped in a great black cloak and hood so that his boots in the high stirrups showed 09:36.779 --> 09:37.520 [SPEAKER_00]: invisible. 09:38.061 --> 09:50.638 [SPEAKER_00]: So a few things to unpack here, we get our first real glimpse at what a ring rath is, what a NASGUL is, and it looks like a old person stooped in the saddle. 09:50.919 --> 09:53.262 [SPEAKER_00]: Somebody who isn't even holding themselves up fully, 09:54.143 --> 09:54.684 [SPEAKER_00]: in the saddle. 09:54.724 --> 09:59.469 [SPEAKER_00]: If you've ever ridden a horse, it's very uncomfortable to slouch while riding a horse. 09:59.890 --> 10:06.857 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to stay upright because it supports your spine and your back and it just makes sense that that's the way you would sit on a horse. 10:07.258 --> 10:10.621 [SPEAKER_00]: And yet this figure is odd, comes across. 10:11.282 --> 10:19.167 [SPEAKER_00]: almost like they are suffering, or like they are old and decrepit, and yet they are traveling by themselves. 10:19.768 --> 10:22.189 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're covered in a black cloak. 10:22.650 --> 10:24.711 [SPEAKER_00]: The horse itself is black. 10:25.252 --> 10:26.973 [SPEAKER_00]: This is very odd. 10:27.453 --> 10:31.377 [SPEAKER_00]: Most travelers out in the world wouldn't be wearing all black. 10:31.477 --> 10:33.939 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, it's extremely hot in the sun. 10:34.399 --> 10:37.922 [SPEAKER_00]: Secondly, it's hard to just get a bunch of black clothes. 10:38.043 --> 10:40.425 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not something that many people would make. 10:40.485 --> 10:44.809 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like they had Gothen Emo fashion going on down in Hobbiton. 10:45.229 --> 10:46.910 [SPEAKER_00]: This was not a common occurrence. 10:47.571 --> 10:54.096 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I'm picturing a bunch of like goth hobbits at a rave in the 90s, but it is similar to something else. 10:54.316 --> 10:57.798 [SPEAKER_00]: And all of the readers of this book at its time when it first came out. 10:57.958 --> 11:07.225 [SPEAKER_00]: And now, we'll notice the similarities between a figure like this and something like a grim reaper, something like a dark spirit. 11:07.605 --> 11:10.487 [SPEAKER_00]: There is already connections to death and 11:10.687 --> 11:14.470 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get even deeper into that in the bonus episode for this week for our patrons. 11:14.590 --> 11:22.937 [SPEAKER_00]: Some of the connective things here, some of the references that Tolkien was pulling from more circumstantially than directly, but it is interesting. 11:23.017 --> 11:24.238 [SPEAKER_00]: This is intentional. 11:24.559 --> 11:28.422 [SPEAKER_00]: But the second thing I find really interesting about this part is the very last sentence. 11:28.702 --> 11:31.845 [SPEAKER_00]: His face was shadowed and invisible. 11:32.245 --> 11:33.766 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is another plan words. 11:34.467 --> 11:50.315 [SPEAKER_00]: If you were to say that a person, a human being, or a habit, was to write up and they just happen to have a big hood over their heads and their face was invisible, we would take that to mean that the hood covered their face so that we couldn't quite see it yet. 11:50.815 --> 11:57.778 [SPEAKER_00]: But in this situation, we don't know it yet, but the figure under the hood, the actual 12:02.140 --> 12:03.682 [SPEAKER_00]: are actually invisible. 12:03.762 --> 12:06.685 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not the hood that makes them not able to be seen. 12:06.965 --> 12:07.907 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not the shadow. 12:08.327 --> 12:11.150 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the fact that they are not visible at all. 12:11.771 --> 12:13.753 [SPEAKER_00]: So we end up with another one of those double meanings. 12:13.893 --> 12:18.979 [SPEAKER_00]: Our first assumption is that the hood covers the head and covers the visibility. 12:19.339 --> 12:21.622 [SPEAKER_00]: But in actuality, it's much more than that. 12:22.122 --> 12:25.063 [SPEAKER_00]: So the next part, the ring rave, stops. 12:25.523 --> 12:28.644 [SPEAKER_00]: And seems to notice something or be searching for something. 12:28.664 --> 12:33.146 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a reason why its movement has halted and it's looking around. 12:33.606 --> 12:35.407 [SPEAKER_00]: So what exactly is going on here? 12:35.507 --> 12:37.288 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's take a look at some of the text. 12:37.888 --> 12:42.330 [SPEAKER_00]: The writing figure sat quite still with its head bowed as if listening. 12:42.870 --> 12:48.452 [SPEAKER_00]: From inside the hood came a noise as if someone sniffing to catch an elusive scent. 12:49.172 --> 12:52.034 [SPEAKER_00]: the head turned from side to side on the road. 12:52.494 --> 13:13.906 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's as if the figure senses something, just has a feeling that there's something it's looking for nearby, the ring, but it doesn't know where, and it's using its other senses in order to try to triangulate where that might be, and isn't quite able to figure it out. 13:14.166 --> 13:15.527 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the feeling I get from this. 13:16.347 --> 13:26.437 [SPEAKER_00]: And then it continues and we get Frodo's perspective on this, a sudden unreasoning fear of discovery laid hold of Frodo, and he thought of his ring. 13:26.957 --> 13:28.699 [SPEAKER_00]: So his instincts are kicking in here. 13:28.979 --> 13:31.201 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh crap, this could be bad. 13:31.361 --> 13:33.003 [SPEAKER_00]: This might be what I was warned about. 13:33.423 --> 13:34.684 [SPEAKER_00]: I need to make sure I hide. 13:35.545 --> 13:37.026 [SPEAKER_00]: He hardly dared to breathe. 13:37.126 --> 13:46.673 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, Hobbits can get really really quiet when they want to, and yet the desire to get it out of his pocket became so strong that he began slowly to move his hand. 13:47.373 --> 13:51.556 [SPEAKER_00]: He's now fighting with the will of the ring and he doesn't even realize it yet. 13:52.157 --> 13:56.120 [SPEAKER_00]: He felt that he had only to slip it on and then he would be safe. 13:56.760 --> 13:58.801 [SPEAKER_00]: This feels like addiction. 13:59.121 --> 14:02.663 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is another one of those analogies that often gets used. 14:02.763 --> 14:05.485 [SPEAKER_00]: The ring as a representation of addiction. 14:05.705 --> 14:10.888 [SPEAKER_00]: Now whether that's something like drugs or alcohol or it's something just that you enjoy. 14:11.028 --> 14:12.989 [SPEAKER_00]: And heck, it could be food. 14:13.049 --> 14:15.991 [SPEAKER_00]: It could be eating something late at night when you know you shouldn't. 14:16.331 --> 14:17.852 [SPEAKER_00]: But you get that feeling like 14:18.312 --> 14:24.137 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, if only I just took a bite, well, I'll feel better, I won't be as hungry, it's worth it. 14:24.697 --> 14:31.902 [SPEAKER_00]: That sort of thing, that the justification in our own minds, that we're when we argue with ourselves, that's kind of what's going on here. 14:32.643 --> 14:36.346 [SPEAKER_00]: The advice of Gandalf seemed absurd, you know, feels. 14:36.946 --> 14:41.630 [SPEAKER_00]: Bilbo had used the ring, now he's starting to get arguments that are popping up in his head, 14:46.427 --> 14:51.833 [SPEAKER_00]: quote, and I am still in the shire, he thought, as his hand touched the chain on which it hung. 14:52.313 --> 14:55.897 [SPEAKER_00]: Foking clearly understood what it was like to feel tempted by something. 14:56.017 --> 15:08.310 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, we all do, but the way that he has laid it out here as this gut feeling and then almost a debate in internal debate in your mind where you hear one voice say one thing and another voice say another. 15:08.850 --> 15:19.280 [SPEAKER_00]: How far back do those comics go, where you have a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other, and the inspiration for that has got to go back probably at least hundreds of years. 15:19.881 --> 15:25.526 [SPEAKER_00]: This feels very much like that, but he doesn't put the ring on, in fact he doesn't even touch the ring. 15:26.087 --> 15:33.850 [SPEAKER_00]: He touches the chain, his hand touched the chain on which it hung, at that moment, the rider sat up and took the reins. 15:34.230 --> 15:39.052 [SPEAKER_00]: His horse stepped forward, walking slowly at first, and then breaking into a quick shot. 15:39.472 --> 15:51.416 [SPEAKER_00]: Now the feeling I get from this is that the rider senses that the ring is nearby, but can't quite figure out exactly where it is, and knows that the hobbits could be hiding 15:51.956 --> 15:53.076 [SPEAKER_00]: Pretty much anywhere. 15:53.436 --> 16:05.100 [SPEAKER_00]: There are trees and hills, there's rough ground, there's road, there's a variety of things going on in this environment, which means that the Hobbits could be 5 feet away or 30 feet away. 16:05.120 --> 16:13.583 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't really know, and there's not many of him, and if he were to get off his horse and start searching around, and the Hobbits slowly crawled away, 16:14.383 --> 16:15.223 [SPEAKER_00]: they would get away. 16:15.363 --> 16:21.825 [SPEAKER_00]: And so it seems to me that the Nazgul comes up with a different plan and the evidence for this is coming up. 16:22.125 --> 16:25.685 [SPEAKER_00]: Fredo crawls up to the edge of the road and he watches the writer. 16:26.105 --> 16:29.126 [SPEAKER_00]: Now far enough away that he's not worried that the writer can see him. 16:29.426 --> 16:30.746 [SPEAKER_00]: And notice what Tolkien writes here. 16:30.806 --> 16:42.229 [SPEAKER_00]: He says he could not be quite sure, but it seemed to him that suddenly, before it passed out of sight, the horse turned aside and went into the trees on the right. 16:43.609 --> 16:55.199 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't think of a single reason why the Nazgul would do that unless he's either thinking that he sees something over on the right and going towards it. 16:55.239 --> 16:56.560 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, maybe the hobbits are over there. 16:56.920 --> 17:02.946 [SPEAKER_00]: Like he was distracted by something or heard, I don't know, something moving a bush and decided to look for it. 17:03.606 --> 17:22.013 [SPEAKER_00]: or more likely that he realized that he was now further away from that feeling he had about where the ring was and decided to get off the road with hopes that the hobbits would pass him and then he would discover them without needing to hunt them down. 17:22.493 --> 17:26.496 [SPEAKER_00]: That's my interpretation, but there could be others, so if I'm missing something, please let me know. 17:26.796 --> 17:31.919 [SPEAKER_00]: Now remember, Frodo and the other two habits are separated, so they get back up and they talk to each other. 17:32.160 --> 17:38.344 [SPEAKER_00]: And Frodo says, I can't say why, but I felt certain he was looking or smelling for me. 17:38.824 --> 17:41.845 [SPEAKER_00]: And also, I felt certain that I did not want him to discover me. 17:42.306 --> 17:45.887 [SPEAKER_00]: I've never seen or felt anything like it in the Shire before. 17:46.387 --> 17:51.409 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, remember, the Nazgul themselves have this effect when they get near people. 17:51.670 --> 17:55.051 [SPEAKER_00]: Even without seeing them, you start to feel this irrational fear. 17:55.431 --> 18:01.474 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you ever had the just that sinking feeling in your stomach like something's wrong, but you can't pinpoint what exactly it is? 18:02.234 --> 18:03.154 [SPEAKER_00]: probably kind of like that. 18:03.434 --> 18:05.835 [SPEAKER_00]: So the Hobbits begin to discuss what might be going on. 18:05.935 --> 18:10.756 [SPEAKER_00]: Pippin says that it seems like he's one of the big people, what does he have to do with us? 18:11.336 --> 18:12.997 [SPEAKER_00]: And what's he doing in this part of the world? 18:13.417 --> 18:14.437 [SPEAKER_00]: What is he even going on? 18:15.037 --> 18:19.458 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Frodo says there are some men about down in the south farthing. 18:19.518 --> 18:23.339 [SPEAKER_00]: They've had some trouble with big people, but he's never heard of anything quite like this. 18:23.779 --> 18:28.522 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Sam admits that he recognizes the writer. 18:28.922 --> 18:33.385 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, begging your pardon, put in Sam suddenly, I know where he comes from. 18:33.705 --> 18:40.669 [SPEAKER_00]: It's from Hobbiton that this here black writer comes, unless there's more than one, which is another subtle foreshadowing. 18:40.989 --> 18:42.129 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not just one. 18:42.750 --> 18:44.211 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know where he's going to. 18:44.911 --> 18:47.755 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you mean, Fredo, sharply looking at him in astonishment? 18:47.795 --> 18:49.137 [SPEAKER_00]: Why didn't you speak up before? 18:49.157 --> 18:52.021 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, like, you saw something scary like this way. 18:52.061 --> 18:52.762 [SPEAKER_00]: You speak up before. 18:53.003 --> 19:00.894 [SPEAKER_00]: But also, Fredo didn't convey to the others that he saw something very similar when he was outside, but it all surfaces here. 19:01.074 --> 19:16.707 [SPEAKER_00]: Sam explains that he had a conversation with the Gaffer, and that the Gaffer had described somebody just like this that came up and talked to him, but Sam being a younger man and the Gaffer's getting old in his years, he was kind of like, okay, whatever, because sometimes the Gaffer... 19:17.387 --> 19:22.371 [SPEAKER_00]: is it kind of blind and it was dark and it misunderstands what's happening a little bit. 19:22.831 --> 19:26.934 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, the grandpa go sit back down in your recliner sort of meme. 19:27.114 --> 19:27.775 [SPEAKER_00]: That's sort of thing. 19:28.015 --> 19:31.057 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Frodo admits that the Gaffer is not wrong. 19:31.417 --> 19:33.719 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, he says as a matter of fact, 19:33.959 --> 19:45.245 [SPEAKER_00]: I heard him talking to a stranger who seemed to be inquiring for me, and I nearly went and asked him who it was, I wish I had, or you had told me about it before, I might have been more careful on the road. 19:45.665 --> 19:50.848 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, Frodo didn't see the ring-rate, he only overheard parts of the conversation. 19:51.168 --> 19:58.291 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Pippin responds here and joins into the conversation, but clearly does not have the information that Frodo and Sam do. 19:58.892 --> 20:06.775 [SPEAKER_00]: And so he has a reasonable thing to say that comes across extremely unreasonable to us because we know more than he does. 20:07.136 --> 20:12.018 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, still, there may be no connection between this writer and the Gaffer Stranger. 20:12.498 --> 20:15.860 [SPEAKER_00]: We left Hobbiton secretly enough and I don't see how he could have followed us. 20:16.380 --> 20:24.450 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that seems reasonable, but Pippin doesn't know that they're dealing with extremely powerful dark forces here. 20:24.870 --> 20:30.237 [SPEAKER_00]: So to us, Pippin's statement, although it sounds reasonable on the surface, is not very likely. 20:30.377 --> 20:32.259 [SPEAKER_00]: We've been watching this unfurl. 20:32.619 --> 20:34.662 [SPEAKER_00]: We have heard Gandalf's warnings. 20:35.062 --> 20:35.262 [SPEAKER_00]: We 20:35.883 --> 20:41.025 [SPEAKER_00]: overheard the conversation with Frodo and now have seen Sam's explanation of it. 20:41.445 --> 20:44.506 [SPEAKER_00]: We are getting the puzzle pieces and they are coming together. 20:44.907 --> 20:49.168 [SPEAKER_00]: And what this is pointing to is that this isn't just some random occurrence. 20:49.628 --> 20:56.131 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the same person or thing or whatever it is and they are not safe. 20:56.691 --> 21:01.934 [SPEAKER_00]: Sam then points out that it is actually very odd that they were smelling the air. 21:02.034 --> 21:04.136 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, what about the smelling sir? 21:04.276 --> 21:09.939 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he reinforces that the Gaffer said that he was a black chap, a person in black. 21:10.500 --> 21:14.462 [SPEAKER_00]: Both of those things are super weird, they're very odd. 21:15.083 --> 21:17.344 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Frodo starts to get worried. 21:17.384 --> 21:21.167 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can tell because he says, I wish I had waited for Gandalf. 21:21.967 --> 21:42.358 [SPEAKER_00]: But perhaps it would only have made matters worse, which is another interesting insight if Gandalf was there, would they have been so careful to get off the road, or would they have felt brave enough with Gandalf nearby to simply deal with any passers by that happened to come down the road? 21:42.898 --> 22:00.579 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a version of this that could have played out where Gandalf was there, the ring rate comes behind them, and things come to violence very quickly, or the ring rate can see Gandalf from a distance and decides to wait in order to track them. 22:01.120 --> 22:13.615 [SPEAKER_00]: and to wait until the rest of the ring-wraiths show up in order to make sure that they have overwhelming numbers, had either of those situations happened at this point in the shire, there would have been very little they could have done in order to protect themselves. 22:13.876 --> 22:19.583 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, they're out in the wilderness, yeah, maybe they can hide under some bushes or some trees or some rocks, but... 22:20.043 --> 22:28.187 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not much they can do if, say, even a handful of NASGoal decided to surround them even with Gandalf there. 22:28.528 --> 22:32.170 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, the circumstances seem to work out for the better. 22:32.290 --> 22:34.451 [SPEAKER_00]: They're just not aware of that yet. 22:34.551 --> 22:37.352 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is another one of those things that just keeps happening. 22:37.673 --> 22:40.734 [SPEAKER_00]: And Pippin starts to become a little suspicious here. 22:40.774 --> 22:43.216 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, then you know or guess something 22:47.678 --> 23:04.463 [SPEAKER_00]: like wait a minute there's more there's more going on here guys you're not filling me in on everything and Fredo says I don't know I would rather not guess both because he isn't sure but also because he doesn't want to worry pippin and have to reveal things that he doesn't want to reveal 23:05.383 --> 23:13.473 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Pippin response, all right cousin Frodo, you can keep your secret for the present if you want to be mysterious, and you can hear the playfulness in this response. 23:13.754 --> 23:15.736 [SPEAKER_00]: In the meanwhile, what are we to do? 23:15.756 --> 23:20.983 [SPEAKER_00]: I should like a bite and a sub, but, however, I think we had better move on from here. 23:21.443 --> 23:23.846 [SPEAKER_00]: You're talking of sniffing riders with invisible noses. 23:24.287 --> 23:25.208 [SPEAKER_00]: has unsettled me. 23:25.588 --> 23:28.290 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, notice the use of invisible. 23:28.810 --> 23:45.100 [SPEAKER_00]: Invisible noses like noses that we haven't been able to see yet because they're covered with the shadows of a hood or an actual invisible being with an invisible nose and Frodo following his gut makes another wise decision. 23:45.761 --> 23:53.206 [SPEAKER_00]: He says yes, I think we will move on now, but not on the road in case that rider comes back. 23:54.013 --> 23:55.394 [SPEAKER_00]: or another follows him. 23:56.235 --> 24:07.986 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, Frodo is more aware of what might happen than it seems like he has information to be sure about, but he's responding in a very rational way. 24:08.587 --> 24:09.928 [SPEAKER_00]: We need to get off the road. 24:10.709 --> 24:27.702 [SPEAKER_00]: Clearly, these writers, maybe there's more than one of them because that would make sense are on the road, and if we get off the road, it's much harder for us to run into them, or for them to ambush us as we walk forward on the road, or for another to come up behind us. 24:28.283 --> 24:33.307 [SPEAKER_00]: If we don't have a road to be on, then we could be anywhere, is basically the idea. 24:33.787 --> 24:44.872 [SPEAKER_00]: So having survived this brief encounter and relying on their gut instincts, they make some wise choices, and then Fredo says, we ought to do a good step more today. 24:45.512 --> 24:47.693 [SPEAKER_00]: Buckland is still miles away. 25:03.478 --> 25:15.403 [SPEAKER_00]: So as I mentioned in the episode, I will be going over more details about the ring race in the bonus episode for this week, but just a reminder, there are almost as many bonus episodes as there are main episodes that you can get on Patreon. 25:15.423 --> 25:18.624 [SPEAKER_00]: So come join us on Patreon and welcome to our newest members. 25:18.644 --> 25:23.826 [SPEAKER_00]: I need to catch up on some of these because I don't know, maybe I'm going to repeat some because I don't exactly remember, but 25:24.186 --> 25:27.747 [SPEAKER_00]: We have a number of new patrons and thank you for being here and supporting the show. 25:28.007 --> 25:29.928 [SPEAKER_00]: Patreon.com slash LOTR lorecast. 25:30.188 --> 25:31.288 [SPEAKER_00]: You can find the link in the show notes. 25:31.488 --> 25:41.752 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to Rosie T, Joel C, Kyle I, Tam, Intangibles and David D. Thank you so much for your continued support to all of our patrons. 25:42.332 --> 25:46.593 [SPEAKER_00]: and especially our VIP patrons who get shoutouts every week. 25:46.854 --> 25:57.077 [SPEAKER_00]: And as I'm recording this, I'm thinking ahead to the VIP patron chat that's happening later on this week and how much fun it's going to be to just get together with some of you and nerd out about all this stuff. 25:57.097 --> 26:00.978 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you are a VIP patron and you want to join us, we'd love to have you. 26:01.338 --> 26:08.782 [SPEAKER_00]: At the end of every month, I start, or actually halfway through the month, I start posting things on the discord that are tagged only for VIP patrons. 26:09.082 --> 26:12.724 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you haven't been noticing those posts or getting notifications, make sure you log in. 26:12.984 --> 26:19.788 [SPEAKER_00]: Check them out because we'll discuss exactly the time that we're getting together and then some of the topic ideas and you can be involved with all of that. 26:19.908 --> 26:21.889 [SPEAKER_00]: And it would just be fun to have more of you. 26:21.990 --> 26:24.571 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a bunch of you, as I'm going to read through all your names at just a moment. 26:24.892 --> 26:31.656 [SPEAKER_00]: But more of you join us, because those conversations can be great and don't feel pressure, don't worry about getting something wrong. 26:32.017 --> 26:35.979 [SPEAKER_00]: It's less about the patrons themselves revealing new lore and that sort of thing. 26:35.999 --> 26:39.002 [SPEAKER_00]: And more about just talking about the stuff that we love together. 26:39.122 --> 26:40.302 [SPEAKER_00]: So come join us for that. 26:40.743 --> 26:43.385 [SPEAKER_00]: And speaking of VIP patrons, thank you, too. 26:43.885 --> 26:59.244 [SPEAKER_00]: Fulcrum, David S. Daniel Knightweaver, Capena, Richard J. T. J. T. A. K. Music Lover, Barney D. Asyl Razzle, Blade of Andorrel, Lori B. Norwegian Myr, Mason Weathertop, Gimli, Abrake, Divine Madman, Rosie Rose, the bestest boy who on is my hero, Eldarion, who's right. 26:59.985 --> 27:12.071 [SPEAKER_00]: of Ariel, party snacks, nor we genius, our team is Kira-C, DOSS, Silverstar, Silver Hobbit, and also my name is August West, thank you to all of you guys in the best. 27:12.351 --> 27:16.673 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, another way to get a shout out on the show is to leave a 5 star review and Apple podcast. 27:16.753 --> 27:23.957 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm debating, reading out Spotify comments and discussing them on the end of future episodes. 27:25.097 --> 27:30.319 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, something I'm considering, I know most of you listen on Spotify and a lot of people will post comments. 27:30.719 --> 27:33.821 [SPEAKER_00]: So with something I'm considering, if you think that's a good idea, let me know. 27:33.841 --> 27:38.402 [SPEAKER_00]: You might be something to add to the end of each episode a little bit, but anyway, that's it for this week. 27:38.442 --> 27:40.723 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for being here and I'm going to go do the bonus episode. 27:41.003 --> 27:43.825 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're one of the patrons that gets bonus episodes, I'll see you over there. 27:44.045 --> 27:52.188 [SPEAKER_00]: And in the meantime, if you're traveling in the wilderness and some dark hooded figure, that's invisible, starts sniffing for you. 27:52.848 --> 27:53.732 [SPEAKER_00]: Get off the road. 27:54.053 --> 27:54.876 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a good idea. 27:55.338 --> 27:55.840 [SPEAKER_00]: Stay safe. 27:56.202 --> 27:56.944 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next time. 27:59.960 --> 28:02.061 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 28:02.702 --> 28:06.264 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to learn more about other fantasy worlds, check out my other podcasts. 28:06.705 --> 28:11.048 [SPEAKER_00]: The Elder Scrolls lorecast, the Witcher lorecast, and more at robotsradio.net. 28:11.528 --> 28:13.369 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to reach out, I'd love to hear from you. 28:13.869 --> 28:20.534 [SPEAKER_00]: Send me a note on Twitter at robots underscore radio, or join our amazing community on the robots radio discord. 28:20.954 --> 28:26.678 [SPEAKER_00]: There are links in the show notes, or just search robotsradio discord, or find the link on robotsradio.net. 28:26.958 --> 28:27.659 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next time.