[SPEAKER_02]: to sit morning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Good morning.
[SPEAKER_02]: How is Nashville?
[SPEAKER_02]: Nashville was great.
[SPEAKER_02]: The kids had so much fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: They got to play with their cousins and be very cute people.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like a very cool fun vibrant city.
[SPEAKER_02]: We get to try new things and since the floods a lot of cities a lot of pieces of the city of rebuilt.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we went and saw like a very cute town called
[SPEAKER_02]: black mountain and charming as hell and we got to hang out with the grandparents also charming as hell and yeah it was just really sweet and it's like really sweet to get to see all the cousins together because they don't miss a beat like they just love each other and love playing and they do such a good job and as the kids get older they're like better it just figuring out how to play together so they just see each other and like disappear for hours
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know what, cousin hangs, shut up Becky.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cousin hangs are the best, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Cousin hangs, like I grew up with just like the best cousins on both sides of the family, shut up to Susie.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, like, both sides of the family, really lucky.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really lucky how close I am.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that, and we don't miss a beat.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when I was in Florida,
[SPEAKER_01]: My Orlando cousins came and saw the show and it was just so good to see them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it just every time you pick up, you know, they know you in such a profound way, you know, that relationship is super unique.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the best.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it was kind of a whirlwind because, you know, my parents left.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were only here like a couple of days then we went and saw them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, the funniest thing we did was we went to a place called Sliding Rock that is a natural approximation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Pictures that this, that kind of works as a slide and the water is ice cold, so both my kids were like, very upset, like we split into the water and grift just started crying.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like, oh, God, get me out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but I'm glad we had a little adventure moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, what can you do?
[SPEAKER_02]: What can you do?
[SPEAKER_02]: What make your kids do terrible things?
[SPEAKER_02]: They have to learn somehow.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when we got back, we had a whirlwind day where we uh, dropped co-at at a birthday.
[SPEAKER_02]: landed, got picked up by Bix at the airport, went and stopped, freed it and ferned for a minute, and then got in the car and dropped Koa at a birthday party, and the birthday party was beat the bomb.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is her first escape room.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I mean, Cois has been going to escape room since she was a baby.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, was this the first this game in that she was actively involved in?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you don't really do puzzles in the bottom.
[SPEAKER_02]: You, you do, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: You do many challenges where you're earning time and then at the end all the time you earn during the challenges you can use toward playing to beat the bomb.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can choose, do you want to get paint-bombed, foam-bombed or slime-bombed, and the birthday girl had chosen foam, which feels like very fun, but, uh,
[SPEAKER_02]: there were five little girls that went and co I asked co at the end like what was it like to get phoned she goes well I sat out with my friend who was really scared and I don't want you to be mad at me for sitting out because it was worth it to see the smile on her face when she didn't have to sit out alone and I was like oh my god and then co goes and the other three that went in
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, I think it was worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: She went to space.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was worth it on her face that she didn't have to sit alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my God.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's so sweet.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's such a good person.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were talking to her because a similar thing happened that very evening where a friend of ours bought this huge house, like a seven bedroom house and it's empty and new.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we went to go hang out at the house a couple of families and the kids were just running
[SPEAKER_02]: like dreams.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: And fun for grownups, too, by the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were just like walking around with our dixie cups of wine being like, what are you going to do with this room?
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was super fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that family has a child that's co-is age and a very little girl who's like younger than Griff.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the little girl when she saw Coa was like,
[SPEAKER_02]: Kowa, will you play with me?
[SPEAKER_02]: And Kowa had just like landed at the house and had all her friends that were her age there as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she was like, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so she was like, play with her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then she was coming to Matt being like, it's so hard because I don't want it to disappoint her.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what I really want to do is play with my friends.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we were just talking about like, how to balance.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me was tell me what I gave her because that is such a I didn't have any particular advice.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just told her that like your whole life There's gonna be this tug of what you you want to do and getting to experience the things you want
[SPEAKER_02]: like getting phoned or like playing with your friends tonight.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like it happened twice in a day and or not disappointing someone you care about who wants something else and I was like it is so so important that the answer be different.
[SPEAKER_02]: all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's no rule that it should be one or the other, but I think you'll know you're doing a good job if you're finding balance.
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes you're thinking like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_02]: This mom paid a bunch of money for us to get phoned.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be five minutes that this girl who's scared sits out and it's going to be an experience that is really rare that
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, beat the bomb is not a cheap birthday party, and I'm like, you know, I'm not going to turn around and pay for you to get beat the bomb foamed tomorrow versus like you see the friends that were at the party every day and you're not saying no to them.
[SPEAKER_02]: You could say yes to this little girl for 10 minutes and then you play with your friends for an hour.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, there's ways to satisfy both, but I was kind of like Matt and I were not clear on.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a hot, because it's a really, I mean, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you don't be sat out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I had like a feeling flippin' me where I was like, I don't like that you sat that one out.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I was also like, I wonder.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, this is getting too layered, but then there was a part of me that was like, I wonder if Kowaf felt a little scared and it was easier for her to say, I was supporting a friend then.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't really, I felt pretty nervous too.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was like, for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't really know how she felt.
[SPEAKER_02]: She seemed to feel like she had fun at the party and made the right choice.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I was like, I just have to support it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I was like, hey, next time, if you feel like you're missing out or you wish you could do the thing or you're worried you'll regret not doing the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's some ways you can talk to your friends about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's how I'm but I think it's really exciting that she's considering other people's feelings and that like that She's taking that into account and you know as as you know a people please or myself You know, it's like there are you also don't want to hold yourself back in that way too And make sure you respect what you want, you know, and that's really hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really hard
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what I was curious what you can find to gave her because I was like, I'm wondering if I could just sort of like piggyback What did I still have for me?
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't call it I mean for co as yeah, what did you say to her it would be or me in you know what I mean you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah Wow, it's really that's very cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think having kids in that that's a relief that's it's fun and
[SPEAKER_01]: It's super cool that you get to experience this through her eyes, you know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, kids the same way grownups are like fake and we're just like bigger kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, still don't know what's going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Kids are just smaller grownups that have as much like wisdom in some ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you find yourself giving advice than you're like, yeah, probably you did the right thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, or you find yourself giving advice, but it's because it's what you need it to hear.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not what your kid needs to hear.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that's always the over-correction.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that like, we, I mean, as, again, I don't obviously, no kids over here, but I think sometimes like, you over-correct sometimes when you, and I say this is a babysitter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like sometimes you're like, everything's due to the lens of your own experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you can never fully be void of a feeling or an experience that you are thinking of.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you just hope that, you know, you're not overcorrecting too much and trying to be as impartial, which is really hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's impossible.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was just in, so much, Quinn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how much I should disclose.
[SPEAKER_01]: I went back to Orlando, it was my roots, my roots were bad to my people.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so great.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was so, it felt like such a warm hug to do a show after we premiered a new show.
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt like a warm hug to do a show that we know and love so much and like trust.
[SPEAKER_01]: And...
[SPEAKER_01]: It was two hours, like our show started as an hour show and because of this version, we have audience participation and more improv in it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And knowing we had two acts worth of time, it just felt like so comfy, cozy, re-recorded it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We filmed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had like a five or six
[SPEAKER_01]: we made a movie like we made a feature film and you know our friend who shot the shot the footage he was like this is going to be as close to a Netflix specials you're going to get like he's like it's going to be as close and I was like I still don't think
[SPEAKER_01]: sharing theater on film is I don't know good moods.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's a good move.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's going to be I don't know if it's a good move.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's a good move.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's a good move.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if it's a good move.
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt so good to perform.
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt so good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was really fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I came back.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a whirlwind.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I came back.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess I'll share this now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's starting the journey of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a whirlwind, I came back, obviously I'm still trying to date and I'm going to be in town for the next two months and I decided I'm going to move forward with freezing my eggs and that's been super stressful and emotional.
[SPEAKER_02]: out of you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm excited for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_02]: All this is putting pause on something.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so smart.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels, it just feels, and the thing that's stressful about it is because I travel so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have like pretty limited time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was like a place I got a discount through through work.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I went, and I, and then I looked at reviews and it wasn't very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I had heard the advice to like maybe go through a hospital
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I booked an appointment at a place that's like more expensive, but it's through Mount Sinai, and so I'm going to go tomorrow, and my only concern is, you know, you're sort of locked into your schedule, and I have a wedding to go to, as well, I'm going to be out of town, so I'm like going to see if I can manage that if that works.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: What I'm in a feeling is like, you know, I know it's the right choice and it's it's also confusing because it's so much money and you're like, do I really want this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is this make sense and it's like, I, yeah, it's bringing up a lot of feelings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I imagine.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm going to make some sense into any of the feelings.
[SPEAKER_02]: All you need to do is like kind of blindfold yourself, throw money out of your wallet at some moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of money out of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then be like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, don't talk to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing is is like, it's obviously it brings up some feelings.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, um, but I know at the end of the day, like the hard part is you're like tens of thousands of dollars towards this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: that I don't know for sure if it's in my future.
[SPEAKER_01]: The way I keep the what I'm justifying it is as what I'm how I'm sort of additionally justifying it which feels very funny to me is like well this is like a very unique experience that maybe will impact my work like maybe
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe I'll share my experience, like, all of this feels like doing it for the plot and doing it for the audience.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do it for the audience for the show.
[SPEAKER_02]: You look for the woman show.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've got a certain thinking of funny names about freezing eggs.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure we can come up with a great list.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I, again, the concern is like, you're,
[SPEAKER_01]: Waiting on your period and I have a two-day wedding and it's like, and it's like, I don't know how that's going to factor in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I, like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And do I start, like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: So where I'm thinking or where I'm saying is like, or how I'm feeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm feeling at the moment is like, if I start the process by going tomorrow, I'll get all the blood work done so that when I'm ready and when I have time, I can.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it doesn't have to be within this next month.
[SPEAKER_01]: it can be when I'm back, it could be in January of this year, like, but I'm starting the process and it's not a big deal and, you know, it's something I've been meaning to do for a while and I just, yeah, it's a, it's a, it's a voking some feelings but it'll be okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: It'll be okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, and so proud of you for making this hard choice, I think it's scary and hard, and it is the right thing to do, and that your future self will thank your younger self for giving that self agency.
[SPEAKER_02]: then you know you're just you know it's making a decision for a different set of reasons and I think that they're better fully anticipate whoever I end up with if I end up with someone and we decide to use his eggs they will be paying me half back of course you can ain't you're gonna end up with someone so rich you're not gonna have to work the day in your life for paying you back you're just gonna be like chillin chillin on the couch
[SPEAKER_01]: No, you know, here's the thing is I'm investing, you know, you know, I've always, you put money in savings in case of a hard time and so just spend a lot of money towards something.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's, you know, I'm sure there are people out there who have experienced this and so you're not alone, which also helps me is to know that maybe me talking about it is helpful in some way, um, or sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the journey I'm going on tomorrow and we'll see what happens there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think also that the fear is getting the blood work and doing the thing is like they're going to give you information and information sometimes feels scary before you're see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's that.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like you a video that goes out to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I dedicated a song to you just down.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I just sent it to you via text.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I need to hear it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love him.
[SPEAKER_01]: You like he's really cheering for you, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what he's doing, but I can feel that he's there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why do you do it?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I don't know if it's for me, but I don't care, particularly because I love that kid.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, do go off King.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go off.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Go off King.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're out here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you guys still trying to date.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can imagine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you imagine, of course, I like land here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, okay, got to get back into it.
[SPEAKER_01]: God, a date.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, been watching the next game, which is so fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you been sporting?
[SPEAKER_02]: You haven't done it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't do sport ball.
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing is, Quinn, when it matters, it's so fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Opposite, I think that because my ex has been cared a lot about sports, and was a depressed person, I spent years of my life with the method determining whether I was going to have a good week or not, and that is not one of the liberal life.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: I did go out with my friend Lindsay and we sat on at this place and we sat next to one of the guys from Delhi Boys and we just hung out with him all night Which was really fun?
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a good time I just, you know, I like getting out into the world
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, first of all, we have to think some Patreon really quick.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's one person who joined, who says, please do not shout me out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm gonna respect your wishes, but I'm gonna say, because it's between us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're glad you're here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, we're glad you're here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we are.
[SPEAKER_02]: You didn't want to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we're, we don't want to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're not talking about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wait, it's respectful.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in a respectful way, but we love you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for being here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we got Shelby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Take it away, Quinn.
[SPEAKER_02]: Shelby, what the hell be?
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't believe you joined this hot mess of a club.
[SPEAKER_02]: What did you stub your toe, then fall down into your computer and hit, yes, I'll purchase this Patreon.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that what happened Shelby?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so sorry, please don't ask for a refund cause that is no fun, Shelby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shelby Shelby Shelby you are so cool Good one Carrie.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do like that name Shelby
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good name.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, if I had a third kid Shelby, it'd be funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, hey, one of my eggs could be a future Shelby.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of cute to call your eggs Shelby, because it's got like an egg kind of reference to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think, yeah, there's something I got to eggs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I got to figure out what I got to call those guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I get any, you know, who knows?
[SPEAKER_02]: Who knows?
[SPEAKER_02]: Time will tell my friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: time will tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I think we're too 80.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's actually my 10.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's my turn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, you're listening to truly, archly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Creeply.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to pass them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm Carrie Ipima.
[SPEAKER_02]: And let's see if we have any ads for the moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: where they're there?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put them post.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was it an awkward pause?
[SPEAKER_01]: Either way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got this information from Wikipedia and people magazine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ooh, so fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you going to answer my people as well?
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, no ads is, but people, we see you.
[SPEAKER_01]: We love a people true crime.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to tell you this story of Barbara Jane Mackel.
[SPEAKER_01]: She is born to parents Robert and Jane, and Robert is a property developer of a major home building company.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's worth like, it's a $65 million company, and this is around the 60s.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, she comes from rich rich family.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's the younger of two kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her brother is four years older than her.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's 1968, Barbara is 20 years old and she's going to Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia.
[SPEAKER_01]: At the time, which I did not realize is at the time in 1968, there was a major flu pandemic happening around this time that I found killed 4 million people globally.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was called the Hong Kong flu.
[SPEAKER_01]: which was, well, again, I had no idea.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it made its way into the universities and Barbara came down with it and she was sick at school and it was right before Christmas break.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so she's not feeling well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her parents are in coral gables, Florida and so her mom goes to Atlanta, Georgia to pick up her daughter and take her home for Christmas break.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before they take the journey home,
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, she picks her daughter up, they stayed in nearby hotel called the roadway in, um, in town, and they're going to get an early start the next morning.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's own scary roadway in.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's very moving.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a scary movie, and this is a very scary movie if we're gonna be honest about it, um, a little foreshading.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're the roadway in, um, they're together.
[SPEAKER_01]: That night, um, her boyfriend Stewart hunt woodward of visits them, um, spend some time with mom and daughter, um, he leaves for the evening.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's December 17th, 1968, they're at the roadway in,
[SPEAKER_01]: Barbara and Jane answered the door, and they're greeted by a man who claims to be a detective.
[SPEAKER_01]: He informs them that there's been a traffic accident, and Barbara is really worried that it's her boyfriend's steward, who was just there who had just left.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're like, okay, please detective come on in, and it's at that point that they see a smaller woman
[SPEAKER_01]: who is in a ski mask holding a shotgun make her way inside the room.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is not a detective, after all.
[SPEAKER_01]: They immediately chloroform Jane, Barbara's mom, and they bind her, they tie her up in the hotel.
[SPEAKER_01]: They then take Barbara and they put the gun to her back and they get her to go into the back of their car and they tell her, and this is the article that said, the article goes, and they tell her, she's getting kidnapped.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they want to be very clear.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, I am not sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I am.
[SPEAKER_02]: No shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I imagine when her mom was chloroformed and she had a gun and she was told she probably I don't know, she probably gleaned that for herself.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no prices, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: Good.
[SPEAKER_02]: That being kidnapped.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think she kind of had the context clues put together for earlier, but they must have allowed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a kidnapped.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, perhaps they were like, I'm gonna kill you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, maybe maybe she was like, this is, I'm gonna die, they're just kidnapping her.
[SPEAKER_01]: So perhaps maybe she did need a little reassurance, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: The kidnappers are Gary Steven Christ, who is a prison escapee and his accomplice Ruth Isam and sheer.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put her in the car and they drive her near Lawrenceville, Georgia, which is in southern Georgia.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they make her get out at a remote Pine stand, which I don't know what that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, it is Christmas, it may be someone selling Christmas trees and they're like, get out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they take her to an area in the woods and there she sees a fiberglass box.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's like, what is that?
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, oh, that's going to be where you're staying.
[SPEAKER_01]: The box has an air pump, a battery power lamp, no, no, no, water lace sedatives, and the box.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: It has two plastic pipes which are connected outside and that pumps the air in.
[SPEAKER_01]: They tell her to get in the box.
[SPEAKER_01]: They get her in the box.
[SPEAKER_01]: They take a picture of her holding up a sign that says she's been kidnapped.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put her in the ground and they bury her a foot and a half underneath the soil.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seems like she was targeted, they knew she was from an affluent family, but immediately they demand $500,000 from her father.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jane, her mom, meanwhile, comes to after a chloroform.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's able to untie herself and she calls the police.
[SPEAKER_01]: But by the time the police are called, they were already long gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were like 30 miles away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her dad immediately is like, yeah, I'll pay, okay, great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's, I'll pay right away, please.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: They organized the ransom drop.
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes to drop off the money, but it's disrupted when two police officers drive by.
[SPEAKER_01]: The kidnapper spot them and flee on foot.
[SPEAKER_01]: The FBI is able to locate their car.
[SPEAKER_01]: and they're able to sort of search their car for more clues because they still don't know who these kidnappers are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Inside the car, they find photos of a man and a police hat and they notice that the car is registered to a name George Deacon.
[SPEAKER_01]: They set up a second ransom drop and this one was successful.
[SPEAKER_01]: The kidnappers did receive the $500,000.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, it's very clear soon after that they have not received where Barbara is, her location, or what to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: While there, this has been like one, two days, while they're trying to find out who these kidnappers are and what happened to Barbara, as well as paying the ransom drop, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They're doing all of the things to try and find her as quickly as possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're able to trace the car obviously to George Deacon and they're able to trace where George Deacon is based and they find him.
[SPEAKER_01]: They find him at the University of Miami, where they discover that he built ventilated boxes for a living at the Institute for Marine Science.
[SPEAKER_01]: his boss when they were like, okay, who's this guy?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on?
[SPEAKER_01]: His boss is like, yeah, George.
[SPEAKER_01]: He hangs out with a gal, Ruth Isman's share.
[SPEAKER_01]: She also works at the university and she and Dekin know each other pretty well, and they're like, okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because they put out like all this information, they're like any information, please let us know.
[SPEAKER_01]: The FBI gets contacted by another guy in Georgia who claims that he just bought a trailer from a dude.
[SPEAKER_01]: And while he was going through the trailer, his new purchase, he found some interesting documents inside.
[SPEAKER_01]: He found letters addressed to George and Gary.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're now able to add the name Gary to their list of people of interest, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're able to look at Gary and see that he is a prison escapee, and he escaped in 1966.
[SPEAKER_01]: They then compare the fingerprints found in the car that they located during that first drop to Gary's file and they find that the fingerprints are a match.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're like, okay, we know our guy, we know who did it.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're also able to compare the fingerprints to things that belong to George Deacon and they realized that George and Gary are one in the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so it seems Gary escaped from prison, changed his identity to George Deacon.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been hiding out in plain sight at the University of Miami and building ventilated boxes at the Institute for Marine Science, which is like a pretty interesting thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what he went to jail for the first time, but obviously we know this guy has a pretty decent rap sheet.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they know who did it, but they're still like where is Barbara?
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to find Barbara, you have the money what's going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So three days on December 20th.
[SPEAKER_01]: So three days after her initial kidnapping, they get a call.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gary calls the switchboard operator of the FBI and he gives very vague directions on where they can find Barbara.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, she's set up near Lawrenceville, Georgia, and she's buried in a box, go find her.
[SPEAKER_01]: So immediately the FBI sets up base in Lawrenceville and they have 100 agents and they spread out throughout the area in an attempt to find her.
[SPEAKER_01]: They look all over.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not gonna find her.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not a name.
[SPEAKER_02]: They find her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Think fucking God.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's alive, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: She is alive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're trying to tell a story your pace and I'm like, getting pissed.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bitch dies in this box.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, please let this win.
[SPEAKER_02]: She survives.
[SPEAKER_01]: She miraculously survives.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you just feel like her had such a bad time at that target.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get her out of the box.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's get her out of the freaking box.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're able to locate where she's been buried and what's crazy is what the article said is that the police didn't bring shovels or anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they just start digging her up with their hands and with anything they could find to help.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like they had a hundred and they're like, we can't all of you can't have a shovel.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, you hundred agents go find her, but like, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they locate her and she's found she is dehydrated, but otherwise she's unharmed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: She had spent more than 80 hours underground three days total.
[SPEAKER_01]: The light they gave her broke early on.
[SPEAKER_01]: So she just sat in isolation for 80 plus hours.
[SPEAKER_01]: She recalls screaming, and she says she said the sound of dirt got farther and farther away, and finally I couldn't hear anything above.
[SPEAKER_01]: I screamed for a long time after that.
[SPEAKER_02]: When they asked her, her very love and she was going to die there.
[SPEAKER_01]: She says she remained positive because she never doubted that she would be rescued.
[SPEAKER_01]: She said how she spent her time was.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be so positive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm going to get into that in a little bit, but she imagined that she was spending Christmas with her family.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how she sort of envisioned it, and she was playing this over, and she never doubted that she was going to be found, and she was reunited with her family, and she got to spend Christmas with her family that year.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's going to happen to Gary and Ruth?
[SPEAKER_01]: The FBI get a tip that on December 20th the day that on the day that Barbara is found They's they hear that Gary is hiding out near a swamp in Florida, which just sounds like anywhere in Florida And so they find him on his speed boat that he purchased with the ransom money and they find him they arrest him Ruth evades arrest and they're still on the hunt for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Meanwhile, Ruth is in or
[SPEAKER_01]: Ruth has evaded arrest and they're still looking for Ruth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ruth lands in Norman, Oklahoma, and she tries to get a job at a hospital.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when she gives her fingerprints for a background check, that flags her and they're able to arrest her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ruth said that she left Miami because her and Gary were separated after the money was dropped and she was not able to get back to the car and she's like, I think Gary just left without me,
[SPEAKER_01]: So weird, just a bad form, guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's interesting about this in this article that I read was the police don't believe that money was the motivating factor in this crime.
[SPEAKER_01]: They believe they wanted the challenge of keeping their victim alive underground, and they were looking for someone who had a strong will and stamina and could survive, and they chose Barbara, she fit the bill.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the lesson to be learned there?
[SPEAKER_02]: Show the world your fragility.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, be very unstable as often as possible in public.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I say, though, actually, that's not a bad tactic.
[SPEAKER_01]: How many times have you seen people go home late from the bars?
[SPEAKER_01]: And be like, I just have to act crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I act crazy, they stay away from you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I like those stories.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm like, OK, maybe there's that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ruth ends up getting seven years in prison.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's per old after four years, and she has deported back to where she was born and Honduras.
[SPEAKER_01]: By Gary was sentenced to life in prison in 1969, but he was released on parole after 10 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Stay with me here.
[SPEAKER_01]: He then received a pardon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, but I read this and was like, what?
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason was so that he could attend medical school, where he went to medical school, but he went to med school, he went to medical school, and then he started practicing medicine in Indiana until 2003 when they revoked his license because he lied about a disciplinary action that he received during his residency.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was then spotted in 2006 off the coast of Alabama where he was in a boat with 14 kilos of cocaine, which is worth a million dollars, and four undocumented people.
[SPEAKER_01]: They locate him there.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's then sentenced to five years and five months and was released in November 2010.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, it just makes me so I rate it just like running around.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, you're mumbling for somebody he'd like to bury.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, we don't know if he buried that something.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, he was practicing medicine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I imagine finding out this is your fucking doctor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like imagine that to me is the craziest shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was released in November 2010.
[SPEAKER_01]: He left, he then left the country without permission because he was still in probation.
[SPEAKER_01]: He sailed to Cuba and South American as lifeboat and then when he came back, the judge was like, dude, fuck you and he was sentenced to 40 years imprisonment.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think he's still in jail.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: How many chances does this guy Gary gonna get?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he has escaped prison in 1866.
[SPEAKER_01]: He then kidnap someone.
[SPEAKER_01]: He then got pardoned, question mark.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why he fucking got pardoned.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he could go to med school.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are we that short on doctors?
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, my, was his, I was like, I was like crossing guard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I just, I don't want that guy in my life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Was his application, was his application like, have buried someone alive?
[SPEAKER_01]: and it was a fun experiment.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was, the grant I received was a ransom of $500,000.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was taking like a first, you know, harm oath.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what is, the hypocrite of oath.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't trust that guy for anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And also the reason he got fucking fired was because he lied about disciplinary action.
[SPEAKER_01]: You mean the man who escaped jail wasn't up front with how much punishment he received for think he did, crazy, crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, so Gary, I do like the idea, though, of escaping jail and being like, I know, I'll go to academia.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's, I'm going to build ventilated boxes.
[SPEAKER_01]: My calling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Terrifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Barbara, what you need to know is Barbara, our sweet sweet survivor of this horrific event.
[SPEAKER_01]: She went on to get married, have kids, I believe she's still alive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just horrifying ordeal entirely, but she made it through, and she lived to tell the tale.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, thank God.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that is a terrifying story.
[SPEAKER_02]: for all you claustrophobics out there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Except there, what a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right though?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, because I think you feel it and you're like, wait a minute.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're in a box?
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pass.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, here I come.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here she comes.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a story as stated that I got from people.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was a good article by Carolyn or Caroline Blair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Another one by Jessica Sager and I also got some information from the old Scotland police department.
[SPEAKER_02]: Say to those kind of checks, please.
[SPEAKER_02]: Wait, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say, say,
[SPEAKER_02]: who knows, who, hey, right, I didn't say, right, I didn't say, I didn't say, right, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn't say, I didn
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a grandpa.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a young grandpa, 63, and he loves to hang with his grandkids.
[SPEAKER_02]: He loves to fish.
[SPEAKER_02]: He loves sports.
[SPEAKER_02]: He loves golf, rugby.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now that he's retired, he really wants to give something back.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he signs up for a.
[SPEAKER_02]: a bike ride that's going to benefit prostate cancer.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a charity bike ride in Fort William, and he does this bike ride on September 29th of 2017, and he doesn't come home from doing this charity bike ride.
[SPEAKER_02]: So his family reports him missing, and the police start to search everywhere for Tony, and it's, you know, a bunch of money, a bunch of time, a bunch of folks looking,
[SPEAKER_02]: The detective on this said a major policing operation was carried out to try to find Mr. Parsons, including searches over a vast and remote area near to where he was last seen.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's just, it's to know a veil and the family's not going to get any answers for years.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maryland.
[SPEAKER_02]: Caroline, that's the theme today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Carolyn or Caroline.
[SPEAKER_02]: So enter Carolyn or Caroline depending on if you nasty.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, more head.
[SPEAKER_02]: Carolyn, more head is a forensic pathologist working in Glasgow at a mortuary and she has a terrible breakup from an abusive guy and decides to hop on Tinder and start trying to do the dating thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: She matches with the guy named Alexander McCallar,
[SPEAKER_02]: who lives an hour away on a farm.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's a hunter and he lives on this enormous farm in the Scottish Highlands.
[SPEAKER_02]: He has a twin brother named Robert McCallar, and they host a bunch of parties out there, barn on the farm, they like to go to local pubs, and she meets this guy, and she's like, here's this six foot four, highlander, says he's a lonely contractor looking for someone to keep him warm on cold nights at his farm.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sounds pretty good to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's lonely, she just wants to be with a nice guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: She wants to have kids, she's like, let's do this thing, farmer, Mackeller, and she meets, she meets and not the farm for their first state.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is an October of 2020.
[SPEAKER_02]: And
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess one of the things that they said that they had in common was death in the sense that she's a forensic pathologist, he's a hunter, so they're not people that are particularly squeamish and they have kind of goryer jobs, but neither one is turned off by the others.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's kind of nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: They get serious really quickly.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of a love it for sight sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And while I say love it for sight, but it certainly wasn't really tribute characterizes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: He has a bit of a darker side when he drinks.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when he drinks, he gets aggressive.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not her favorite thing about him for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I say aggressive, I don't know that he gets, it's not like he's getting aggressive with her.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's just like one of those drugs that we all know them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Some people get drunk and have like a never-ending butt-light moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not this guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not like a lovely man when he's drunk.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's like, should we fight?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they're having a party here in his twin one night and the brother pulls her aside and says,
[SPEAKER_02]: you know Alexander's not right in the head and you got to be careful, but you don't love to hear that from the twin.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, he just, you know, she's in love.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's not going to listen to that and when they're together only two months in November.
[SPEAKER_02]: He afternoon, she says yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then, right after they've gotten engaged, they're getting ready to go home to Alexander's family for Christmas.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're packing, they're getting their shit together.
[SPEAKER_02]: And for whatever reason this night, he decides to lay some news on Carolyn and Alexander tells her that years
[SPEAKER_02]: and that they buried his body on the Eucharist state where they had both been working.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so imagine, just get in her head, like Carolyn.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, I met the nice guy, I'm gunna marry him, I'm gonna have kids with him, I'm gonna live on this beautiful farm, he loves me, he what?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, what?
[SPEAKER_02]: You hit and ran and killed some,
[SPEAKER_02]: like nice ramps doing a charity bike ride and then you didn't tell anyone and you buried him.
[SPEAKER_02]: What?
[SPEAKER_02]: But she says at that moment, she's like overwhelmed with this information, she cannot even
[SPEAKER_02]: it's like an out of body experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's panicking, but at the same time, she's not able to take action at that moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they do end up going to his parents home for the holidays.
[SPEAKER_02]: And while there, it gets worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: Alexander says to her, so here's the thing I have this information that people are gonna be building buildings on the property where we buried this man's body.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're gonna definitely excavate the land.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what I need your help with is we gotta move this guy that I buried.
[SPEAKER_02]: definitely.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they get home from the trip.
[SPEAKER_02]: And two days after Christmas, she calls the police.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yes, Carolyn has some overwhelm when she hears this, but I think it is a matter of days before she knows what she needs to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they go and they arrest both of the twins, but they don't have
[SPEAKER_02]: What happens is I don't believe at this point, Alexander doesn't know she turned him in, which feels implausible to me because like you told her and then the police, you told her and then the police found you, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: What I do know is she keeps talking to him during this time, but it is with the police on her side, and it is she's now become like turned and become an informant.
[SPEAKER_02]: where she's going to wear a wire and talk to him and try to get the information to find out where the body is.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, she's recording their conversations where they're speaking about things and trying to get evidence.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, she says to her boyfriend, I will help you move this body that I need to know where the body is buried and he leads her to where it is buried and she is drinking a red bull.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, where it's buried is in the middle of nowhere, presumably, so she crushes the Red Bull and, like, Serpenticiously leaves it on the ground.
[SPEAKER_01]: So as a grave marker?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, she just, she's a litter bug, and that's the true crime of it all.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you believe me?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, and I end there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you believe we Carolyn?
[SPEAKER_02]: She had the wear with all to tell the police and yet a litter bug, the end.
[SPEAKER_02]: So she's so much fun there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she calls the police and says, this is what I did to Mark the Grave and they go and they're able to recover the body and in recovering the body, they're able to also tell that Tony Parsons had had rib pelvic and spine fractures
[SPEAKER_02]: the car hit him, but despite these terrible injuries, he was alive after he was hit.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it had got no.
[SPEAKER_02]: If they had gotten help, he might have survived.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's they didn't kill him on impact.
[SPEAKER_02]: She also, in conjunction with this, you would think to yourself, he's passed out he seemed dead, but in conjunction with this, she also has recorded conversations with Robert, confessing to her, yes, he was still alive.
[SPEAKER_02]: when we left the scene like we could have taken him for help and instead we laughed we got and then we got him and we just like good buried him.
[SPEAKER_02]: They didn't bury him alive but like
[SPEAKER_01]: he was alive when they took him in the car and they could've gone in the house.
[SPEAKER_01]: He admitted that they said posting.
[SPEAKER_02]: The death was that the rib injuries and there was a collapsed lung and he couldn't breathe.
[SPEAKER_02]: So he did die and then they buried him, but it's like they did not try to get help is like the headline news there, which just makes it a terrible thing they did.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's disgusting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Unforgivable.
[SPEAKER_02]: Alexander and Robert.
[SPEAKER_02]: arrested in January 2021 after they have gotten after they've recovered the body of Tony Parsons and then they go to Carolyn and they're like you have to be a witness and she's having panic attacks she feels totally overwhelmed that she's now roped into this thing where the the case rests on her shoulders it feels like and it's mm-hmm
[SPEAKER_02]: So she's drinking a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's doing drugs.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's trying to numb herself entirely.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's completely overwhelmed.
[SPEAKER_02]: She doesn't show up in court.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then they issue a warrant.
[SPEAKER_02]: And finally, she's off the hook because what ends up happening is the McKellers take a plea.
[SPEAKER_02]: A plea deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're supposed to go to trial in July of 2023, but when they accept the plea deal, Alexander pleads guilty to culpable homicide and attempting to bervert the course of justice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Robert pleads guilty to attempting to bervert the course of justice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Alexander, her boyfriend, her fiance, gets 12 years in prison.
[SPEAKER_02]: Robert gets five years in three months.
[SPEAKER_02]: But she's come out afterwards against the police and said, they were so awful.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was clearly trying to cooperate.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got this news and I came to them and I was informing them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did this cool red bull trick and they were being total buckles.
[SPEAKER_02]: She said they promised anonymity support.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yet the minute you give them what you want, you're hung out to dry.
[SPEAKER_02]: They suggested from the start.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could also end up in trouble with this esteemed criminal wasting police time,
[SPEAKER_02]: So she felt like she was treating her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though she immediately went to the police and was like, hey, here's this crime.
[SPEAKER_01]: How can I help?
[SPEAKER_01]: What the fuck?
[SPEAKER_02]: And she was treated so poorly and you have to imagine how horrific she didn't know this guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: She knew him two months before they got engaged.
[SPEAKER_02]: She knew him three before she found out he was a murderer.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really intense what she went through.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that she did the right thing, she just felt like she wasn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, supported.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm happy to report that she now lives on the Scottish coast.
[SPEAKER_02]: She has, she's sober.
[SPEAKER_02]: She goes to a psychiatrist all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's helped her have better relationships in her life.
[SPEAKER_02]: It has a partner as is an unbelievable right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Franco is very clear that he has no regrets about the main foreword, and he says that this past really keeps up.
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't convicted of murder, but he did take an innocent man's life.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, he is a coward, and he is a killer.
[SPEAKER_02]: This made me ask my friends, I was like, it's so different because they knew each other three months, two months.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were engaged.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what if one night I was lying in bed and Matt rolled over and was like, if to tell you something and then told me that he had a hidden run where he buried a body.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because it's Matt, so it's like, absolutely not.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the two months, the two, I think the, knowing someone for two months in this coming up, like the amount of that has to rock your core, like the amount, like also you being like, oh, I don't know this person at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know you, it's so real.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know why I'm comparing apples to oranges, but I did think that morally it was interesting to play with what if it's your husband, what if you have kids with them, what if you've known them for 20 years?
[SPEAKER_02]: Would you then be like, I don't know this person at all, would you protect them?
[SPEAKER_02]: Would you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, what would you do?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I love thinking about these moral quandaryists and, yeah, then I, I was talking to friends about it and then I went too far where I was like, what if Matt was a serial killer and then they were laughing and they were like, I don't know what if Matt was a serial killer, he would stop and see a flower and forget what he was on the way to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were like, you'd get so mad because he'd be like, I can't do it today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Will you do it for me?
[SPEAKER_02]: And you'd just end up having to be a serial killer.
[SPEAKER_01]: He'd be like, I got one tarp.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we can split it in quarters from the victim.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think, because I just don't want to, yeah, I think we should, and then we can maybe do one half corn on the cob.
[SPEAKER_01]: That story still gives me nightmares.
[SPEAKER_01]: That to me is the biggest indicator that he is a serial killer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am three horns.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the fact that, you know, that he hasn't, he still doubles down on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the most shocking to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a gameist.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think de-readers, like none of us, you know, hey, let's, here's a fun thought of you.
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you do if someone's in your dating now?
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe even with them a long time, maybe you just met them a month ago in Tinder.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I want you to play this mind game with yourself because I have a lot of work.
[SPEAKER_02]: the last two days where I'd be walking around the city, setting things up for events.
[SPEAKER_02]: And instead of listening to a podcast, it can be fun to just really think what would I do?
[SPEAKER_02]: What would I do?
[SPEAKER_01]: What would I do when you know is a serial killer?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, what would you do?
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or had we ever used to gently hit a 63-year-old grandpa biking for God and Jesus out of a family's life.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so fucking cruel, cruel.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the not, I mean, worse than that, knowing that that family never had closure.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you live with yourself that they're awake at night wondering?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a nightmare.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he was never found.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't imagine your young fit grandpa goes missing on a charity bike ride and never is seen again.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what he did to that family.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just diabolical.
[SPEAKER_01]: 12 years is not enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't imagine any of the men I date to be a serial color because I'm just meeting them, so all of them could be a killer, which is kind of that is the thought experiment.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's actually my thought reality element.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's your thought reality is are you a killer?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you a killer?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you should ask right off the top.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you a star?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you consider yourself to have killed someone and do you consider yourself to be killed someone?
[SPEAKER_02]: You're trying to put it gently so the question more.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're
[SPEAKER_01]: you're sitting down for drinks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I'm Carrie.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you do for work?
[SPEAKER_01]: We like to do for fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Have you killed anyone?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's like a fun order of operations.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just don't use the word murder because I feel like people can people.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: He'd be like, well, it wasn't murder.
[SPEAKER_02]: I didn't mean to.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like, you know, just be careful I use phrase it on these states.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you working GGC on Saturday?
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm working too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Doing spy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Voice.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to go to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love dance.
[SPEAKER_02]: Goodbye.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God, tell her I say hi, she is no idea who I am, but just in spirit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I cannot tell her I say hi.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's very intimidating energy.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's very into, it's the leg warmers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's the leg warmers and outfits.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: Quinn goes sweat your face off, I'm going to go to the office, and then we're going to the meds game tonight for work.
[SPEAKER_01]: So... What?
[SPEAKER_02]: Voice.
[SPEAKER_02]: Full circle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Poison.
[SPEAKER_01]: Love you dear readers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye, do you leave it?