[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome back to part of the mess.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host Scarlet Hiltabidal.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing it, you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, I'm starting to adjust to this strangeness of being a podcast host.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I tell you something?
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been a listener, a podcast listener for a while.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when you listen to a podcast, you don't think about the fact that the person talking to you is talking to you from the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like right now, I'm talking to you in the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's kind of strange at first.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just want to give a special shout out to our ever so patient and kind producer, Jeanette, who has been so patient with me as I have learned to the ropes of podcasting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so grateful for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so grateful for you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is, I think, yeah, it's the end of June.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the last time I'm going to remind you about the changes we've made.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't worry, next school year in the fall, the prayer episodes are coming back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't
[SPEAKER_00]: But as for these Thursday episodes, we are moving from interview style to topical style.
[SPEAKER_00]: So every week, we are entangling one parenting mess.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are looking at it, we're looking at what God's word has to say about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm bringing on a brief guest for the messy mom moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're taking one small faithful step every week together, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we get to do this life with Jesus, even the hard stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So speaking of hard stuff, today's episode is titled, a bad diagnosis and letting kids see hard things, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know this can look a lot of different ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you can have a bad diagnosis or a questionable diagnosis within your home.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you are getting, you know, we've had in our home where I've had cancer scares, had to wait on biopsy results, while living with my little kids who are watching what's going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have friends who have been living with cancer, even stage four cancer as moms.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just, you know, continuing to do mom life with that hanging over their heads.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the one that is more personal to me right now is having a grandparent so she's not in my in our immediate bubble of home, but it's my mom and watching her walk with stage four cancer for the last few years has been.
[SPEAKER_00]: really crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, first of all, it's just, you know, the thing we all fear.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a sad, scary, hard, bleak-looking thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my mom's a believer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the lessons that her faith have taught my children have been so strikingly beautiful.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I'm really grateful that I get to share some of that with you today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our guest who's going to come on for a few minutes is a new friend of mine,
[SPEAKER_00]: also is walking with terminal cancer diagnosis, and so we got to chat for a few minutes about how those conversations have looked in her home, you know, because I think the questions that immediately surface when these things are happening when my mom first got diagnosed with cancer, my kids were little.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was over 10 years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: When the cancer came back, they were all older.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so there's no hiding anything from them now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there are a lot of questions that immediately surface when your family is faced with something like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Questions like, how am I going to talk to my kids about this?
[SPEAKER_00]: How much should they know?
[SPEAKER_00]: How do I answer questions?
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't answer.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do I help them process something that I'm still processing myself?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so you know our instinct as parents of course is always to protect and until you have faced something that looks really bleak and scary.
[SPEAKER_00]: in this life.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we can kind of buy into the idea that we can protect our kids like, okay, I'm going to keep them from seeing the scary bad things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, the longer you parent, the more you realize, okay, this world is broken.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's brokenness in our homes.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's brokenness in our own selves.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we've got to be able to shine a light, shine the light of the gospel onto it.
[SPEAKER_00]: See what God's word has to say about it and help our kids navigate these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: While, yes, also protecting them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to the example of my mom, you know, my kids are not just seeing a diagnosis.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not only seeing and learning about suffering as they interact with my mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're also seeing someone who genuinely believes that death is not the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that is not always the case.
[SPEAKER_00]: There have been other things in my family, other deaths where there was a question mark.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is a whole other thing to navigate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I am going to touch on that later in the episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: The tension today that we're going to look at is I want to protect my kids from pain, but I also want them to learn how a Christian walks through suffering.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: As moms, we want faith for our children.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you are a person of faith,
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, we cannot get distracted and forgetful, but deep down, we know the thing we want most for our children, we know the world is going to hurt them, we know that sometimes their bodies will fail them, we know they're going to lose things and people that they love, but are they going to learn to walk with Jesus?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are they going to do when the suffering comes?
[SPEAKER_00]: What will be the status of their souls?
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the main thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So one of the hardest realizations for me has been this.
[SPEAKER_00]: The goal of parenting is not raising children who never
[SPEAKER_00]: man, this is convicting you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: The goal is raising children who know where to run one suffering cups.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is very hard for me, you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is very hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really don't like when my kids are suffering.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not one of those tough moms who's like, you fell down second up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm on my fourth kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: You would think that,
[SPEAKER_00]: I would just kind of say second up by now, and I have a boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have my first boy you guys, like I got a raise him to be a strong man, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to work on this, you guys send me all your book recommendations.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got a scroll back into the archives of Courtney's interviews about raising boys, because I don't like suffering, and I don't want my kids to suffer.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've got to be reminded, I've got to remind myself that the goal is not raising kids who never suffer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, biblical hope is not confidence that everything is going to work out the way we want.
[SPEAKER_00]: Biblical hope is confidence that Jesus will still be enough even if it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and that is what my mom is modeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Lord.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not certainty.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not denial.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: My husband preached on 1 Peter 3.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've our first Peter 1 3 and the word the Greek word for hope is L piece and I think it's kind of funny because it sounds like the word piece but it spelled EL PIS and it means the expectation of good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what does it look like when someone we love?
[SPEAKER_00]: has a bad diagnosis.
[SPEAKER_00]: What if they're told something like you have six months to live, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're talking through this with your kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: What does it look like to receive that news to love that person, but to have the expectation of good for that person?
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like real hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like the kind of hope that's anchored in eternity, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's untangle this mess, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: The parenting mess today isn't specifically cancer, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's come back to the main thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cancer isn't the mess.
[SPEAKER_00]: Illness isn't even the mess.
[SPEAKER_00]: The parenting mess is, how do I help my kids walk through something I can't fix?
[SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, that's true of almost every hard thing our kids will face.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, it's easy to fix things when they're sweet baby James's size.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys, if you're a YouTube watcher, I think that we've started the tradition because I've done this every time showing him sleeping on the baby monitor in my hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: that's when I record.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys, I feel pretty strong and powerful when it comes to baby James's problems, but he is going to grow into what my oldest is and beyond Lord willing, what my oldest is 15, and she faces problems sometimes that I do not have the answer to.
[SPEAKER_00]: When my teenager is bringing something to me that I don't have the answer to, where do I lead her?
[SPEAKER_00]: What do I say?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think something to keep in mind when it comes to these things is
[SPEAKER_00]: to let your kids see your vulnerability.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, I think that's harder for some than others.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the, but even if it's easy for you to be vulnerable, what is the right way to show it?
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the right way to express emotion?
[SPEAKER_00]: If we try to stuff our own emotions down as parents, it might end up coming out sideways, y'all.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not an expert in this, okay, my family is very open and very communicative, but my husband and I joke that someday when my kids are adults and their therapy will find out all the stuff we did wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I know is true is that it's my job to show my kids what it looks like to walk with Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I'm looking at the messes in my own life, sometimes I, there's something I'm looking at and I don't know what to do with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I say,
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you fix it?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the only one who can fix things, you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the only one who can fix broken things.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the only one with power over life and death.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's valuable to let your kids see you being vulnerable.
[SPEAKER_00]: So not everything and not nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So truth filtered through wisdom.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think kids know when something is wrong and when we hide everything, we might create more fear, not less fear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's think about it this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what is age appropriate on a state look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I think one bit of wisdom would be answering the question being asked, letting information unfold over time and remembering different kids need different conversations.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's not like a perfect script.
[SPEAKER_00]: Chat GPT can only get you so far, you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I think that the important thing is to be honest and to focus on
[SPEAKER_00]: truth and to be led by the Holy Spirit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, just a week or two ago, we talked about loving our different kids in different ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: That comes up in my conversation with Jennifer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're minutes about this topic, which I love that the Lord allowed that to overlap, because, you know, if you're talking about grandma or as we call her, Bam Bam,
[SPEAKER_00]: Bambam's cancer, the way that I talk to my stronger, emotionally stronger daughter, is going to be a little more candid than how I talk to the daughter who might not be able to handle that yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not about being dishonest or holding on to information in a way that's sneaky or lying, but asking the Holy Spirit to give you wisdom about
[SPEAKER_00]: what to reveal, I think answering the questions that are asked is really wise.
[SPEAKER_00]: There have been really hard things in my family.
[SPEAKER_00]: We lost my uncle Jimmy to suicide a few years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my kids were younger.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we told them that he died.
[SPEAKER_00]: We did not tell them how he died.
[SPEAKER_00]: But years later, when they asked,
[SPEAKER_00]: I told them the truth, and honestly none of them ever asked me for specifics about how that happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm grateful, but I just remember asking the Lord to help me in that moment, and deciding they were ready to know the truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we first told them,
[SPEAKER_00]: We just said we're not going to talk about what happened, but we're just going to, this is what happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: He passed away today.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, that's an instance where I wasn't lying to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I knew that they were not emotionally or age ready to have that full conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me take a little exhale.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So another priority I think is to stay close.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kids process suffering differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of your kids might ask us 100 questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some don't ask any questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some might cry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some might cry years later.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some might bring it up a bad time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's important not to force conversations.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think one of my children who really, who's very, very internal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've tried to kind of pry in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: get her to express emotions.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's hard for her to express emotions.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of our kids are going to handle this stuff differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: The important thing is your presence is more powerful than having the answers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think the important thing to focus on as a family is to let them see what Christian hope actually looks like.
[SPEAKER_00]: If the person who received the bad diagnosis is walking
[SPEAKER_00]: My mom has given my children something so precious because they're watching someone suffer without losing hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and it's not because cancer isn't scary, and it's not because death isn't sad and painful.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's because Jesus is bigger and better than life itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe your loved one isn't a believer, or they are a believer, and they're struggling to walk in hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe you as the mom are there example of what it looks like to be pressed but not crap.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, guys,
[SPEAKER_00]: this exact thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about today.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wrote it when my mom's cancer-type terminal cancer diagnosis came a couple years ago and right in the intro I cited second Corinthians for eight and nine we are hard pressed on every side but not crushed perplexed but not in despair persecuted but not abandoned struck down but not destroyed and the thing is
[SPEAKER_00]: sometimes even if you're a believer, even if you're a long time believer, you know you're pressed but not crushed but you feel crushed, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know that you're persecuted but not abandoned but you feel abandoned, you feel destroyed, your feelings don't line up with what you know to be true.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you are the example, if your loved one who is having the diagnosis is not a believer,
[SPEAKER_00]: You're the one who's going to show your kids what it looks like to be pressed but not crushed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a value in telling your kids, I feel crushed, but here's what's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am having trouble holding onto the hope, but I know that the hope is true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here are some things my kids have observed about Bambam in this season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, they've observed that Bambam says ye Jesus a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, she celebrates Jesus things all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bam Bam talks about heaven.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bam Bam still believes God's promises.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bam Bam is still trusting God.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what a gift it is for my kids to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're bam bam, genuinely believe that eternity is real.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, again, maybe in your home, the only example of this is you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they might be watching you thinking, how is mom walking through her grief or her sadness or the unknown of all of this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they see words word and time with other believers?
[SPEAKER_00]: And instead doing whatever you can to numb out or do they see you pressing in in your sadness?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do they see you acknowledging your sadness, acknowledging,
[SPEAKER_00]: the grief or the pre-greaf that comes from loving someone with terminal cancer.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are they witnessing?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes as Christian moms were motivated to walk the walk for our kids, like as an example, and we forget that our faith is actually real and true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that resonate with you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the spirit of God is powerful.
[SPEAKER_00]: and able to comfort and restore even the most broken-looking things.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is real.
[SPEAKER_00]: The eternity is real.
[SPEAKER_00]: God's presence is true, and I think sometimes, as moms, if we're in a season where we're being forgetful, we might live like we're supposed to go through these motions of trusting God.
[SPEAKER_00]: We forget that we're actually trusting God and that we can trust God.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think it's really important to press in with the Lord yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: So okay, a couple just things I want to say about if it's a loved one that is suffering with sickness does not know the Lord.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just a couple big reminders to remind your own heart, remind your kids, salvation belongs to the Lord.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody is beyond God's reach.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are called to be faithful.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not called to control somebody.
[SPEAKER_00]: God's character is trustworthy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even when the outcomes are hidden from us and we never know what these conversations we've had with our loved ones, what they are going to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: in that person's soul.
[SPEAKER_00]: So salvation is between a person and God in their final moments.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I always think of the criminal on the cross next to Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he wasn't not doing Bible studies.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was not showing up at church.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was being crucified for a living a terrible sinful life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he believed that Jesus was God.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Jesus said, I'm going to see you in paradise.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is such a comforting thought to me when I think about my loved ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: who are still alive, or those loved ones I have who have passed away, and I'm not sure what the status of their souls was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just to know that salvation's belongs to the Lord, and that God is full of mercy, and we might not know everything, but we can trust that God is good.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I wanted to remind you of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also wanted to remind you that your kids do not need a perfectly strong mom.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think one of the temptations during hard seasons is thinking, I need to hold it together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that there is some, like I do think it's very important as the mom to be the carrier of hope and truth.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're all going to have bad days, but what do we do with those bad days?
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you didn't listen to the June 4th episode, just the parenting advice that kind of changed my whole life.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you, if you have a moment of weakness or sinfulness in front of your family, which will happen, and it will happen over and over again, because we are humans, what do you do with that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you brush it under the rug, or do you shine light onto it, expose it, and teach your kids what to do with sin?
[SPEAKER_00]: Teach your kids to how to repent.
[SPEAKER_00]: So do they need you to be perfectly strong in the midst of a family tragedy?
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course not.
[SPEAKER_00]: But do they need you to remind them of what's true?
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have way less experience walking with Jesus than you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't say that to put pressure on you.
[SPEAKER_00]: But do your kids need a mom who never cries or screams into a pillow?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I sure hope not because my kids have heard me scream into many a pillow.
[SPEAKER_00]: What they do need is a mom who melts down sometimes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, but still trust Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what they need.
[SPEAKER_00]: They need a mom who can say, this is sad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand why this is happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm hurting to, let's pray.
[SPEAKER_00]: God is with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to transition to our messy mom moment segment of this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm having my new friend Jennifer Seabor on to talk about what this has looked like in her family.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, welcome to part in the mess, great, thank you, I'm excited to be here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited to have you here, so normally listeners, when I see Jennifer, it's at the school my kids go to because she works in the office or at church, we go to church together, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's been so wonderful.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've gotten to know her.
[SPEAKER_00]: So far, that's your last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: So fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a different setting for us, but okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first time, right when we got here to Texas, I met Jennifer and we had a lunch, do you remember this?
[SPEAKER_00]: You took me to a great, I think it was a great place.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, the Greek place, it's so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love people there because it's local and it's delicious and it's family owned and so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved it and I remember we were talking and you knew a little bit about my mom and her diagnosis and as I was just kind of walking through all the specifics of it you were like okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also going to do the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the kind of thing you want to have in common with someone, but you were like, not only is my mom walking through the same thing, but it's like the exact same even like tumor location, like it was so the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that was a crazy thing that we bonded over immediately.
[SPEAKER_00]: And every time I've seen you and we've kind of asked about each other's moms, there's always baby james or other children interrupting us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but you've encouraged me a lot and same and I want to say that even, you know, when you're coming into the office at school They're passing each other in church like it's been a really neat connection point to have with you And just to know that you're praying and I'm praying and that we have that thread going and I think we both kind of understand that and So that's been a joy to have your encouragement as well So even if it's been brief.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad I always feel bad because I'm always being pulled away by a little baby
[SPEAKER_00]: you bring joy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for saying that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always show our YouTube Watchers the Baby Monitor because this is when I report what he's Yes, it's locked out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so here's my first question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our moms have walked a similar road with cancer.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to share with our listeners whatever your comfortable sharing about when you first got that news of the diagnosis and you have children you had to think through what are these conversations going to look like with my children.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'd love to know how did you decide
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, great question.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, it's interesting too because my mom's cancer has returned and she had had cancer about seven, eight years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And my children were younger than when the first diagnosis happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_01]: So the conversations look a little different now as I've have teenagers and young adults in my home.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so even going back to when the first diagnosis happened, you know, I continue to frame it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do now even that we trust God with his plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: We pray for healing, but we trust and know that God numbers our days and that he,
[SPEAKER_01]: And so as I talked to my kids, also each of them process this differently, I realized, and some of them take it more to heart and some of them maybe have more of an outer shell that requires a little bit more consideration on how to breach the subject because it almost feels like it hurts too much to think about a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that also has to do a little bit with maturity level and every kid is in a different growth stage.
[SPEAKER_01]: So to answer your question, to talk to the kids about it, it's also interesting too because I'm processing my own level of grief and understanding.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think people that have had things like this and other things that require some grieving of your own personal, it's hard to kind of put into words like how you almost as a mom set aside a little bit of your own thoughts as you begin to think, okay, what am I kids need right now to understand this and process this?
[SPEAKER_01]: But overall,
[SPEAKER_01]: We pray for healing.
[SPEAKER_01]: We pray that God will use all of it for His glory.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we trust Him that He knows the number of our days and He has purpose and He has a plan.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I try to reiterate that with our kids so that there's not fear as much as there is trust and that He's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: and that we can rely on him regardless of outcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it's neat to just continue to talk about the praises as good things come along in the journey of the cancer diagnosis because there are good days and there are good things.
[SPEAKER_01]: and to talk about the praises too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love Jennifer that you said that you talked to your different children differently according to where they're at.
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't know this and you couldn't have known this and the episode hasn't come out yet but the episode that will air a week before this episode is about loving your different children.
[SPEAKER_00]: differently according to how they are and how the Lord loves his, his fault, his children in such specific ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I love kind of extending that conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as we talk about, you know, these things that our children are witnessing in this broken world, you know, letting them in on it, letting them see the brokenness in a way that is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's their maturity level, like you said, and just their temperament and what they need to say or process your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm so glad you shared that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what would you say, Jennifer, looking back at like the biggest challenges with this season, with this circumstance and your family?
[SPEAKER_00]: What have been the biggest challenges as you've tried to help your children process the diagnosis, wondering if there have been unexpected gifts or sweet moments that have come from it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Just I would love for you to just speak into,
[SPEAKER_00]: the hard parts and the sweet parts.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's been some hard parts where kind of really early on, my mom was kind of rushed to the hospital unexpectedly, and I determined that I needed to be there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that was really hard on a lot of levels because it was so unexpected.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that they got to see that I was present.
[SPEAKER_01]: for my mom and that I was able to be her support and my dad's support when they really really needed just another person that wasn't so closely tied to come in and bring some perspective and listen to the doctors and I think that there's some sort of testimony in there of being present makes me think of like Job and his friends and that the good part of Job's friends when they just sat and were there and just demonstrating that sometimes
[SPEAKER_01]: in the middle of a crisis or difficulty and to be an example to the kids of my sacrifice, and that they could see that that was helpful and a worthy investment of my time and a sacrifice of our family's time, show being there is important, just being there, maybe not solving anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: being there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was I loved that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is such a practical piece of advice that that's kind of answering what my next question was going to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: You already you've laid out such practical advice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be present.
[SPEAKER_00]: What an example that is for your kids and how important that is for the loved one who's suffering and to just talk to have these conversations with your kids individually and where in the way that you as their discerning mom know they I love both of those
[SPEAKER_00]: great wisdom.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, spiritually I'm wondering have you noticed just any special moments you'd like to share or has this brought you all closer and away or has it pushed you closer to the Lord or have you noticed that in your kids?
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that look like in your family?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or has it been a struggle, has it, you know, has some of it been a struggle, like I know some people react differently and sometimes when you are facing tragedy and depending on your kids in maturity level, like they might run from God or not, you know, and of course don't share anything that they wouldn't be comfortable sharing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what has the spiritual health of your family looked at throughout this whole thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a good question.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that first off,
[SPEAKER_01]: A diagnosis like this gives you the gift of time and as hard as that is, it gives you time and the ability to be intentional and I've noticed with a few of my kids that they have been more intentional with their time and investing in their grandparents and recognizing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: just that life is fragile, and that every day is a gift from the Lord, and so I think that there's been some real goodness out of that that you don't want a tragedy or a diagnosis to bring to that point, but I think sometimes it's also just like a reminder of, is that
[SPEAKER_01]: that investing in people is so important, and that includes all people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And sometimes when you have a diagnosis that's in your family or close friend, it reminds you just that all the relationships that you have are important and to be intentional with those people that God gifted you in your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that's been a really beautiful,
[SPEAKER_01]: outcome that that I've seen happen and I'm grateful for that because I think that just makes us appreciate things.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think sometimes we just are floating along and so it's
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good to at least take these challenges and find some goodness from the Lord in that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I can't remember if that was your whole question, though.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have shared such a wealth of wisdom and encouragement.
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you so much for joining us, Jennifer.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really appreciate your time and ask you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been a joy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Jennifer.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so grateful for her testimony.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to go right into our scripture focus for this week, which is second Corinthians 4 7 through 18.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just going to read this whole thing over you, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: So starting over 7.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we have this treasure and clay jars so that this extraordinary power may be from God and not from us.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are perplexed, but not in despair.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are persecuted, but not abandoned.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are struck down, but not destroyed.
[SPEAKER_00]: We always carry the death of Jesus in our body, so that the life of Jesus may also be displayed in our body.
[SPEAKER_00]: For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus's sake, so that Jesus's life may also be displayed in our mortal flesh.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then death is at work in us, but life in you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And since we have the same spirit of faith keeping with what is written, I believe, therefore I spoke, we also believe and therefore speak.
[SPEAKER_00]: For we know that the one who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Indeed, everything is for your benefit so that as grace extends through more and more people it may cause thanksgiving to increase to the glory of God.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this part for 16.
[SPEAKER_00]: Therefore, we do not give up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though our outer person is being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.
[SPEAKER_00]: For our momentary light affliction is producing for us and absolutely incomparable eternal weight of glory.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we do not focus on what is seen, but on what is unseen.
[SPEAKER_00]: For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's real you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is seen is temporary.
[SPEAKER_00]: My beautiful vibrant mom, her body is temporary, so is mine, so are our children's.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything that we see in this earth is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who my mom is on the inside, her soul is going to live forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved, their soul will live forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no death for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Death is an event, and then it's onto eternity when everything is made new.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is our true hope, as Christians we are not ignoring suffering.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are looking directly at it while fixing our eyes on eternity.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are pressed, but not crushed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes we feel crushed, and that's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Lord knows our weakness.
[SPEAKER_00]: You remember that we are dust, but we can rest in His strength, not our own.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the example that we can set
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's the small faithful step we can take this week?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, tell the truth, stay close, point your family to Jesus, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: As a mom, tell the truth, be close, be near to your children, and point them to Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it, that's the response this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're talking about Bambam's cancer, or when one of my kids Susan 5th grade, she had a classmate who just finished chemo, she was walking through cancer.
[SPEAKER_00]: What does it look like for me to talk to her and tell her the truth be available for her questions, stay close, and point her to Jesus, point her to that hope of eternity?
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to have all the answers you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to explain suffering perfectly.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to be the hero.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just simply need to remind our children.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are not alone, God is still good, and because of Jesus' death never gets the final word.
[SPEAKER_00]: The parenting mess this week was not cancer.
[SPEAKER_00]: The parenting mess this week was standing in front of your children when your heart is broken, and wondering what should that look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: And the goodness of the gospel is that this burden was never on your faith being enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: The burden is on Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus is strong enough to carry the burdens of the life.
[SPEAKER_00]: He knows that their big, he knows that they look scary from where we're standing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's already defeated the thing we fear the most.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's already defeated death itself.
[SPEAKER_00]: death and resurrection are the reason we can have hope in the first place.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me pray for you guys this week that our homes can be full of honesty and real authentic hope, the kind that looks as far ahead as eternity.
[SPEAKER_00]: And man, what will that do for our kids as we send them out into the world to be?
[SPEAKER_00]: little lights, this little light of mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to let it shine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you tell I have a toddler?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's so really you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are raising kids who are going to be light in a dark world.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not raising kids who are pretending that there's no darkness.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let me pray for you guys as we try to take this one small faithful step this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for this conversation that we got to have today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you that the light shines in the darkness and the darkness cannot overcome it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have poured your spirit into your believers and we are able to be carriers of this hope that death is not the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter how bleak it looks.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are people who know that our souls live forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I pray that you would help us as moms who are navigating brokenness in the form of sickness.
[SPEAKER_00]: with our loved ones help us to know how to talk to our kids about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really hard sometimes and sometimes they ask questions and we don't know what to say but I pray that you would give us the humility to tell our kids when we don't know what to say but to direct them to what we do know which is that you are real and you are present and you are enough and you are making all things new right now and one day
[SPEAKER_00]: death will be destroyed forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's our hope and we can have that expectation of good because you are real.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've proven yourself again and again and what a gift it is to be your children.
[SPEAKER_00]: So please help us to live like loved little children as the the moms in our homes this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: We love you.
[SPEAKER_00]: We give you all the glory in your name, amen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for joining me today.
[SPEAKER_00]: You all know that this podcast part of the mess is part of a podcast network called Christian parenting and they have so many encouraging other podcasts read a listen to so go check them out a Christian parenting.org
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you're following the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Make sure you leave a positive review if you haven't already, because it helps other moms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Learn about us and be encouraged as they walk with Jesus and leave their children in their homes to look at Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys are the best.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you, and praying for you, and I'll see you next week.