[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, welcome to M&P, we have a no podcast that's ever free on time.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are rolling through the summer, so let's do a lot, by the way, like isn't that kind of end up?
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, it feels like all of this stuff comes faster every year, but here we are so much more.
[SPEAKER_01]: In two years, there'll be NFL regular season games starting next week, so that'll be good to just kind of have that.
[SPEAKER_01]: July 1st you know and have that get going a lot to talk about for those of you guys who listened to the Tuesday show we had taped that probably about five or six hours before the source be ruling and it actually gave us a good kind of
[SPEAKER_01]: 24 to 48 hour window to do a lot more reporting to actually think deeper about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say this Albert.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a I'm not a Carnival Barker, but the three headed monster of you me and Pat 40 had I would say three really good columns on this if you were to power rank them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm putting myself in third of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think that we hit it from three different angles, and I think it's important to talk about it now.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you missed it, Brennan Source B is not the NFL essentially declarative not eligible for the Supplemental Draft.
[SPEAKER_01]: The NFL is not going to have a supplemental draft this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: Brennan Source B and his team are planning on essentially, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Siding with the player's association that he's not yet in to sue the league that he's not yet working for right and what's interesting is that a key to his case so a key to his case might be the fact that he's not in the player's association
[SPEAKER_01]: if you follow me there like because you didn't negotiate those rules you know right so it's it's tangled up we can get into it for sure so i want to start with this and um i think uh i want to separate because you and i talked after i filed my column i read your column which i thought was excellent and and forties came out
[SPEAKER_01]: a little bit later on.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my first thought on this, and I know that there are kind of ancillary business reasons for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: But just on its surface, I think this is a very, very smart thing for the NFL to do, because by disallowing source B from coming into the league at a moment
[SPEAKER_01]: the league is basically saying to college football, clean your own mess up, and you know, we'll take them at another time.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're basically pushing, they're preventing the summer from becoming the summer of source B, from taking away from training camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: from basically having the optics of a discussion being, look at how many teams are possibly slavering over a guy who bet almost $100,000 on sports, which is highly- This is frowned upon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, so this is such a rich topic, and I think there's so many different angles we can take, you know, which is, you know, I think why so many people have latched on to it and so many different arenas.
[SPEAKER_00]: we should probably hit here is like just a little of the background for people who haven't followed it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So he was declared knowledgeable by the NCAA because he had placed like Conner said, I think nearly, I think the number was $90,000 worth of bets.
[SPEAKER_00]: Correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and there were a lot of more small bets and a lot of them were like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think he was betting on like high lie in India in some form, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, but the ones that the NCAA had circled were from almost four years ago when he was being registered in Indiana.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I 100% agree with the idea that there has to be a punishment for anybody who gambles on their own team end of story.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't mean like, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, so the NTA rules them and eligible, and then he files for an injunction by some miracle, he gets the injunction, which I'm not going to break down to why that was so unlikely legally to happen, but he finds a judge in Texas that sympathize with him, and more or less this
[SPEAKER_00]: That they couldn't enforce this rule because like he hadn't agreed to it, you know, and so like they could take the case on its merits and agree with source be that he would face, you know, a reputable damage by by by by by by by sitting out the 2026 season.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then the big 12 takes legal action.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sores B looks at and sees the supplemental draft deadline coming like
[SPEAKER_00]: basically like forecast the scenario that he's in right now where he beaches S.O.L.
[SPEAKER_00]: with draws a lawsuit and junctions gone he's again an eligible which makes him eligible now to apply for the supplemental draft which he did last Tuesday and then on Monday the deadline comes and goes Tuesday this Tuesday on he's denied.
[SPEAKER_00]: As for where this goes from here, and I think this part to me is fascinating.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if people will find a fascinating, but
[SPEAKER_00]: His case is basically now that the NFL is a trade association and a trade association cannot determine the employability of someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have to leave it up to the companies, which in this case would be the teams, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And the NFL's position itself as a trade association because it's an operating monopoly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the idea that a trade association would keep an individual out exposes the monopoly because there's only, now there's only one place to go and you can't go to that place to find a job, so like that's the crux of a legal case.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also the case law precedent of Maurice Claret in 2004, where the collectively bargain three year rule, which doesn't allow college freshmen or sophomores or high school seniors to declare for the NFL draft was challenged by Claret, he initially won, then on appeals.
[SPEAKER_00]: The NFL got that overturned on the premise that that was collectively bargain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Claret was not an NFL player at that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: like that would be the case law case that the NFL would have either way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would tell you this corner just to wrap all that into a bow.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought there was no way the NFL was going to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: not because they didn't want to because I think they all long wanted to do this because they don't want to deal with it like you said off the top.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the reason the reason I didn't think the NFL would do this is because I think the lawyers would tell them we're going to lose in court, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they wouldn't want a protracted legal battle taking place over the next month or two.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have now put the onus on that, they moved the onus on that to source B, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So now the question isn't whether the NFL wants to go through a legal fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now the question is whether source B wants to, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's now a question he asked the answer because the NFL already has.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I saw a couple of questions from some people commenting on stories about options for source B.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we should make that clear before I move on to what I think is another important point.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is not to my knowledge of CFL team that's squatted on his rights.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thanks so.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the CFL season is like in fact.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's in swing.
[SPEAKER_01]: The UFL is a possibility, but the UFL, I believe, runs essentially anywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to really start January or something?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it basically slams right into the draft, the draft and training camp and all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The route that, and I'm not, I don't mean to make light of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I'm sure that everything that's going on with swords we right now is, is awful and terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: there have been players in not exactly a similar situation like this but who have played for like community colleges for a year and you know I'm always a fan of like
[SPEAKER_01]: the former Major League baseball player playing purely softball and just smack in 600 foot home runs like it would be kind of awesome to see source be just completely carve up like Kentworth community college for you know I don't know just it's just a place of ball but so I say that to say this I think point two in 40 and I kind of made different versions of this
[SPEAKER_01]: It should have been Suresby's camps stance all along that they needed more time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this rush to get him into the NFL is, and this is why I said in my column, I think that undercuts his whole point that this is an addiction, this is a mental health issue, and it's the fault of these apps, and I can't,
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't get through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if that's the case, which I believe I'm not, I'm not discounting sourcebee's issue, then this is a more than a 30 day inpatient issue.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need time to get through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to, you need help.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a gambling addiction, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not just 30 days and it's like, okay, cool, cool, cool, cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now put me in the NFL.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that the,
[SPEAKER_01]: to get him into the league, undercuts the seriousness of what they're alleging that these apps do to people, which by the way, is 100% true.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen the first hand, I have friends who are struggling with this, like dear friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you see what it looks like, and it's horrible, okay?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm not discounting that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I'm saying is by pushing him to the NFL,
[SPEAKER_01]: you're kind of saying like, well, we can figure the rest of this out on the fly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, honestly, dude, like, I, I just, um, so, you know, I, I think that,
[SPEAKER_00]: There's the football element of it, which is really obvious, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's a position you need to play.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like I can still remember the case of Drew Henson and Drew Henson taking a couple of years off.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember that was before my time covering the NFL.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was in college.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, he went to a football camp when I was a king.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the same age as Drew Henson.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was like the number one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Recruiting the country was a was the guy who was challenging Tom Brady at Michigan had a great junior year after Brady was gone and then he had a chance maybe to be the number one pick on the draft in 20 in 2002 signs with the Yankees instead and like he spent I think it was two or three years out of football then try to come back and it just completely lost it you know what I mean like it's hard to play that position.
[SPEAKER_00]: after taking time off.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think there is some merit to try to place somewhere if you're him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there is some merit to somebody who is struggling with something being in the structure of a team.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so I don't think like I say I see what you guys are saying with this, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like which is like he needs to take time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think like the normalcy of being part of a team could help them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, you know, I, I, I think the bigger to me, like this, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if I'm a source piece camp right now, I'm going to the NFL with the threat of a lawsuit and seeing if we can work out as a suspension.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I may even if I'm them offer a season long suspension.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me practice, let me meet, let me do all of that, my teammates.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will not play this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: and they suspend him for the season.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as part of that suspension, he is his in treatment.
[SPEAKER_00]: If the NFL really wants to show they care about the kid, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I think they might be amenable to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like the team gets the benefit of, we're gonna draft him.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna get him in training camp.
[SPEAKER_00]: He can play in pre-season games.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then once the regular season starts, he is on ice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he is serving a season long suspension.
[SPEAKER_00]: that way they can face in a very strong message to every one of the NCAA level, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: The answer that they're not going to put up with this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also show some grace for the kid who's involved.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I think the idea that he has not paid a price,
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, already is not paying attention.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, he's already paid a price.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, his legal fees are his legal fees.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's cost himself money, cost himself a chance to play his way into the top 10 of next year's draft, which we're talking about now $50 million guaranteed.
[SPEAKER_00]: He might have lost here, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: If he goes in and he's suspended for all the games, I just think there's something there if you're him.
[SPEAKER_00]: where it's like, I need to be like, I need to be in a team environment.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to be like, have this light at the end of the tunnel.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think for the NFL, it does show, we're gonna have some grace here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And...
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're the NFL, that also allows you to set up a monitoring program, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That allows you to make, and you can use the guy as an example.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I personally think what's in the kids' best interest right now, like you said, is to make sure that he's taking care of from a non-football standpoint, and I think you can incorporate football into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I'm the people around him, the last thing I want,
[SPEAKER_00]: Is this kid falling into some state of depression over the next six months or being pissed off at the world and being like, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: left to his own devices and again he's not 15 years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like let's he's an adult like he's responsible for all this but I think if you're talking about what's best for the kid is probably I think that he's in some sort of team environment through the fall.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's responsible but it's like also let's make a laundry list of potentially career altering things that I did from 18 to 20 to that that weren't filmed or you know anything like that when
[SPEAKER_00]: You know like I don't you know like it's kind of one of those things where I've always joked about this with my friends There's like a certain age you get to where it's not funny if you got arrested anymore I think you have a funny story you have a funny story getting like busted for something at a concert when you're 19 and That's like ha ha funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's not funny if it happens when you're 29 you know I was gonna say what is it because I think I would say
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say 23.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think it's probably right in there somewhere, 23, 23, 23.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you have like a year or two after college where you're really sort of still in college and you'll basically know what you're acting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and it's still fun to be legally drinking and all that entails.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you don't understand, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's a point where it's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: you're going to be telling stories of this to your kids someday and you when you get back together with your high school friends or your college friends you're talking about this dumb stuff that happened it's like a lot different than like getting like hauled in by the police at like 28 years old you know what I mean yes you should always consider the fact that you have something to lose at at some point I think what you're saying is valid I think what
[SPEAKER_01]: But I struggle with, right, is there's always the pie in the sky thing where it's like, oh, we'll get them into a program at the NFL level and counseling is part of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rehabilitation is part of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: How did that go for Deshawn Watson?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, wasn't that a whole thing we're like, we're going to get him in here and then counseling is part of it and there's benchmarks that then there's hurdles.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he essentially backtracked a half-baked apology and has never come out and admitted any wrongdoing.
[SPEAKER_00]: For the NFL's asking for accountability, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did they actually seek it?
[SPEAKER_01]: With Deshawn?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: did they actually seek accountability?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that letter they put out, like the letter from Larry Ferris on, who people don't know, he's in charge of the management council, which handle all these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the NFL's legal team, basically, their internal legal team.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I read that letter, and the first thing that stuck out to me was the fact that they complained about him,
[SPEAKER_00]: filing an application for a supplemental drafts, three business days, which by the way was six actual days.
[SPEAKER_00]: before the deadline.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now it's kind of like, what are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, somebody brought this example and told me this, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you imagine your kid applying to get into a private school or to go to college and you file the deadline?
[SPEAKER_00]: The deadline's on a Monday and you file the application.
[SPEAKER_00]: You send the application the previous Tuesday and the response you get from the school is, well you didn't send it early enough for us to thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: What?
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought the deadline's the deadline, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, so they set the deadline for June 22nd.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he gets it in June 16th.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, what are you even talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that makes no sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there was that piece of it that made no sense to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing was after I did a little digging.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, from what I understand the application for the supplemental draft is really straightforward.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, it doesn't even ask why you're an eligible.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just asks if you're an eligible to play in college.
[SPEAKER_00]: which was a yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like that's like my thing is like where was he supposed to show accountability?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they didn't sit down and talk with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like you say he showed no accountability.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, did you seek that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you ask for it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it wasn't part of the application process, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you had taken the time, maybe if you actually sat down and talk with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that that part of it
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, could be an important piece too, like is there a point where the NFL can sit down and talk with the kid and actually vet him for themselves, they're probably being an orthodox thing to do, but this is a very unorthodox case.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is there a world where
[SPEAKER_01]: This becomes a little bit like, and I guess it's going to involve kind of like a little bit of an accusation here, a blind accusation, but like, is there a world where this becomes like the moment where Lamar Jackson was eligible, and then every team came out and was like, nope, don't want to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is this a moment where, let's say that source be somehow manages to clause way through the thicket in the top of the steward?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, something that rhymes with pollution, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it like, is there a not so subtle inference for NFL teams?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, we are not taking this guy this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say, I would say,
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say yes, if this turns into a legal fight that he wins, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, that I, but I, even then, it would seem like really blatant, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: If it was appreciated settlement that he's going to accept some sort of suspension, I would say no because at that point the league is like the league would have to be satisfied with the result, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, which is okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the result, um, it's fascinating.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think like, look, I've gotten a lot of this like, whoa, the league can have beer ads up and everything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I hate doing the whole like two things can be true.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like a kind of hate doing that, but like it is in this case applicable where you can say one, the NFL absolutely positively has to be very, very harsh on anyone who places any sort of bet on their own team.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a player, a coach, whoever else, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: 100% I agree with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're good to be harsh on this.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're sending the right message.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can also say that they have firmly positioned themselves as part of the problem, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is not the same as having a bud light sign in your stadium.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: You are actively involved in the monetization of these
[SPEAKER_00]: of these companies, of this product, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You are, you are actively, you have owners that have been investors and draft kings and fan dual and all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are, in some cases like intimately involved in helping to create the gambling product.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's worth mentioning to,
[SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that bothers me about this is how easy it is for kids to fall into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh god, yeah, like, think about how hard it was when you were, you know, 17, 18 years old in high school to get beer.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it was...
[SPEAKER_00]: It was pretty hard, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you had to have like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: You had to, you had to, you had to, you had to, I will go in it a lot of these areas here, but there was a guy who gave me, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, kind of kids for Halloween, when you had to have a scene in a pillow.
[SPEAKER_00]: You had to have a plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were real barriers, like, and my high school is easier to get drugs than it was to get alcohol.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't have a problem with any of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, alcohol, but alcohol was harder because you actually had to go through.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so like, how do you get it?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when you're 21, it was like, if you get too drunk, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, then you get trouble for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, they're all these walls around it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's something about this, too, that bothers me, where I think the NFL is at least a little complicit in the fact that it's so freaking easy to gamble now, it is so freaking easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: like with, there's no real guardrails, there's nothing stopping him, you know, from developing in addition, it just, it feels to me like the NFL is part of,
[SPEAKER_00]: part of these companies handing these kids packs like proverbial packs of cigarettes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, that should never be lost.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's like the weird sort of libertarian world where we're living in right now, where it's like, you can do whatever you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, even things that are bad for you and I'm not gonna stop you, but you know, and I'm not gonna legislate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we all saw this coming, the second that the NFL hopped in bed,
[SPEAKER_01]: with gambling companies.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the NFL especially being the easiest to bet on in terms of having the most in-game situations to bet on, probably the most fun to bet on and being the most popular American sport, there's no question that they have helped usher in.
[SPEAKER_01]: a generation of gambling addicts and that their hands are tied to this in some way shape or form.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of comparing it to the comparison I used in my column was, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: The NFL in this situation is a bartender.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you have a guy that comes in who you're like.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, pretty sure this guy gets a little buck wild too often, but selling alcohol is my business.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to decide how many drinks you're going to give him before you cut him off, knowing that if you over serve him, you know, I think this is one of those situations where there's liability.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's the fine line that they're treading right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanna pivot the conversation quickly to something because this is another thing that's driving me nuts about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess it's something that we don't really know the answer to.
[SPEAKER_01]: What even is like, let's say, because here's the other part of it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mentioned that jumping into the draft under cut source B seriousness.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when Sours be entered the supplemental draft, I think it was his agent who I saw given an interview that basically said, we wanted to go back to college to hit the 35 to 45 start threshold that the NFL is very serious about with their quarterbacks.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: is source b even someone because there's people who are like, you know, he's QB3 in this upcoming draft.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's QB4 in this upcoming draft.
[SPEAKER_01]: He would have been QB2 in this draft, which like you're saying that the Rams would have taken source b over a guy like Ty Simpson who they're intimately familiar with.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know the answer to that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I doubt it, but I could be wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: what are we looking at even like are we looking at a projected NFL starter like I saw rich meaning why used to work with he had a scout that said the other day he's like a lot shorter than
[SPEAKER_01]: What he looks like like he's not gone through the pro-day wringer, you know, we don't know if he's a true six to we don't know a lot of the things that could discount him We haven't sat down with him and started grilling him and meeting all that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I ask you this and this is probably and I personally, I mean, I've been checking on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had people tell me he's a surefire first round pick.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean this guy is unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had people say I don't think he's a day to pick
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I put a T you.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think about this?
[SPEAKER_00]: So like the comp I've heard that I like friend I've heard from multiple teams is Jake out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Jay Kotler was the 11th pick in the draft, I believe, and so like that's the sort of talent you're dealing with.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think that talent is as developed as Kotler was coming out of Vanderbilt and so you'd be projecting a bunch with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what are we talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so he is a big.
[SPEAKER_00]: strong armed athletic guy who like can throw from different arm angles, stylistically there's like some comparisons to that like Caleb Williams, Patrick Mahomes, Zach Wilson, genre, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think like when I've talked to people who actually have vetted the person already because
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, they say that he may be not really an alpha, um, but he's like cocky, confident, like kind of like got like that Texas thing to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he's kind of like at the Texas bro thing to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and how he carries himself.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like not a bad kid, um, but obviously has some growing up to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like you put like all that together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And.
[SPEAKER_00]: I look at it like if you're so I'll use the example of Panthers 15, 16 years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Panthers took a flyer in 2010 on Jimmy Klauson coming out of Notre Dame.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought Jimmy Klauson was a really good college quarterback, you could probably chime in on that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought Jimmy Klauson was a great college quarterback.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, a realtor, by the way, high profile real estate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, see, do I see out in California doing a high-end real estate or something?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, look, I, the Panthers took a, uh, the Panthers rolled the dice on Jimmy Klaus in the second round.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was a worthy draft pick because, you know, no one he's going to become at such an important position.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever, you take a swing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't work.
[SPEAKER_00]: That didn't prevent them from turning around the next year and taking Camp Newton with the first overall pick.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, then you go and this is going to sound like I'm picking on Notre Dame seven years later and the Browns take the Sean Kaiser in the middle of a second or another great Notre Dame quarterback.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so Kaiser has some like real physical ability Kaiser might be a little bit better more like a better comparison to source because there was like some real physical ability you can kind of work with there and.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it didn't work out.
[SPEAKER_00]: That didn't stop him from taking Baker may feel first overall.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like I think like that's sort of the lure.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're one of these teams, you're looking at it and saying there's Jay Cutler talent here and Jay Cutler was very talented.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm going to get them for the, if you got into the, into the, in the supplemental draft, I'm going to get them for training camp.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get them for the regular season.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to get them in my building and I'm going to get a chance to really look at them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I get it right, then I might be in position to then use my high first round pick in a loaded draft next year on another position.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's Jeremiah Smith Colin Simmons, Dylan Stewart, Leonard more whoever it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if I don't, well, then I can just take my quarterback next year.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the ultimate dilemma, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if you look at the Golden Goose in the NFL, is a quality starter on a quarterback conj, on a rookie quarterback contract, that in any rookie quarterback contract, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But beyond the first round, that is the true Golden Goose of the NFL, now you could maybe make the argument that like,
[SPEAKER_01]: the late first round one is the best because then you have the additional fifth your options.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's like the true golden goose.
[SPEAKER_01]: But whatever, I mean, if Tyler Schuck turns out to be a great quarterback or any of these guys are now to be great quarterbacks, that allows you in insane amount of cat flexibility and team building that you wouldn't be able to do otherwise.
[SPEAKER_01]: My question though is this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do like, and it goes back to kind of where we started on this whole thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're the NFL, do you want someone in the games most high profile position being the story of the summer?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I mean, do you let if source be gets on a team, do you let him play in preseason games like even though he suspended and it's not the story of the preseason and do you want gambling because you brought this up too, Albert, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fan-do-and-draft kings don't want this guy in the NFL.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like...
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, because there's a guy...
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the highlights, the issues, that their product presents sports.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like... And...
[SPEAKER_00]: It'd be like...
[SPEAKER_00]: It'd be like having a guy with one cancer on a Marlboro ad, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: right or it's like you know this guy bet on and in a grandity was in his dorm whatever and he wasn't on the traveling roster but this guy bet on you know Indiana games when he's playing for Indiana you know like and so if and and I'm curious if your experience is like mine
[SPEAKER_01]: I wrote in my column and I believe this, that I would say a majority of football fans, like 50.01% of football fans, are not openly conspiratorial when it comes to gambling and it's effect on the on on sports.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, I would say that a majority of those people who are not overtly suspicious could be pushed that way with a gentle breeze like I don't think that the NFL Talks we all know up with it like looked at that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean like I think that's really what you're getting to right
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't think that the NFL is on the ground enough with normal people and I don't think that they see the fact that this game, like every Phantom Penelty, every holding call on the fourth quarter, becomes incredibly and increasingly suspicious to the normal person who is just watching a game because we have examples of it in the past.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's that because there are cases of an actually happening in the case is of it actually happening and I think that the I think that that's probably like the under underground thing that they're ignoring and all of this Well, not ignoring because I think it's important that they denied source be access to the league this year because of this right it's like They need to at some point and stop their boot on the throat of some of these conspiracy theories and even if they are just conspiracy theories It also is also comes back to how hard it is
[SPEAKER_00]: And like for all of us that so for all of us that are old enough to have seen what gambling was 20 years ago or 25 years ago right in states where it wasn't legal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I can remember in college, like my buddy triggered on a bookie, and like it was, it was sketchy, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually call it, it was freaking sketchy, like the way you were, like, but that was how you bet back then.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was you bet through, it was like someone had a, but someone you knew had a bookie and then you placed best to the bookie, and it was always like sort of what this understanding that,
[SPEAKER_00]: if you if you if you screwed that book he over something that was going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Break your legs.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like that was sort of like the smokey, the the smokey room, like feel the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but that's what it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like that was and so
[SPEAKER_00]: like it was very easy for all of us that saw that to imagine there's more sketchy shit happening behind the scenes.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's there's other things that are probably happening with this really sketchy operation that I'm dealing with the place a bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so not only was it hard because obviously like going and finding that guy versus pressing on button on your phone or two different things and that was a very real barrier to doing it
[SPEAKER_00]: sketchiness that's always existed.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so very easily of anybody who is of a certain age could envision a scenario like that playing out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what you're saying is if we get if people are going to hint of it happening, if there are two or three people that are then, you know, it could
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's obvious that there's that human nature thing where it's like, well, if these two are three people are doing it, that means a lot more are going through the same thing and not getting caught.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, so let me ask you this, like straight up, like I have a lot of friends who aren't sports writers who are just consumers of an NFL product.
[SPEAKER_01]: I get sent during the season probably in totality over a hundred Instagram reels of people breaking down phantom snaps or you know phantom fall starts like you know uncalled upholdings and fall starts and you know encroachments and pass interferences and then the got like some narrator with like a mic going and the spread was this and then the spread became this and this is what happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: Am I alone in this or does this happen to you too?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you look at like the numbers on these posts and there are hundreds of thousands of people looking at them.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's it's.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just And I'm not saying that's not the reason the kid can't be in the NFL, but I am saying that like let's say for example I'm a little way down the rabbit hole now, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like but like this is what it is and like this is why the NFL has to act the way that they acted
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're all, let's say, they're all so responsible for it now and this is what was, I mean, I'll tell you, I, I think I'm the best way to kind of describe this, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is you remember one day of a temper, bought the Panthers, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, one of the first things I heard about David Tap, like very smart business man, think what you think about him as the Panthers owner.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think there's any question like, this guy is a really sharp business man, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: What the reason he bought the Panthers when he bought the Panther wasn't because he like loved the idea of owning a team in Charlotte he had been kind of waiting right for the right opportunity and was in Pittsburgh at the time is a minority owner and there have been a few people Jimmy has almost with the Steelers for a while they're been a few guys who've been sort of in that position the Steelers almost have like an owner training program type it feels like you know
[SPEAKER_00]: But the reason he bought the team when he bought the team was like, oh, gambling is being legalized.
[SPEAKER_00]: The valuation is going to change.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: He was right.
[SPEAKER_00]: The valuations of the teams markedly changed because of gambling.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they are embedded in this whole thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bottom line.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's to me it's like again like that's the dichotomy of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The NFL has to take a stand against this.
[SPEAKER_00]: The NFL is also responsible for it, you know, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bottom line, do you think he plays?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want out of the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think my kids are in discourse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm probably going to have to have a talk with them when they get to 17, 18 years old about doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, 100% of the way you would have a talk with your kids about girls or about drugs or alcohol, you have to have a talk with them about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more accessible than any of that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the crazy thing now after it's amazing how that's
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm gonna see, I can't wait for some of these.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've already blown, there was a kid that I very, very young kids, but one is past the age of kindergarten.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that person got a love note from someone else in their class.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was just like, we're all just sitting in the car
[SPEAKER_01]: When you walk through those doors, it's math, and it's spelling, and it's reading, cut the rest of this nonsense out, and then my wife just goes, nice, like nailed it, asshole.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, you know, so are you gonna be the dad who's got like a shovel sitting outside the front of his door, and everybody's going to wonder what it's there for?
[SPEAKER_01]: No question.
[SPEAKER_00]: I uh... before i think it hit me with that shovel is he going to bury me with that shovel like i bet i better be careful around here i don't know if this is true or not but this is a wild uh... this is like a wild connective tissue so
[SPEAKER_01]: I got this book recommendation from Ben McAdoo of all people, but strong father's strong daughter, so I have two girls, so I read it, and there's a chapter in there that is like subconsciously your daughter loves the idea of you lurking in the garage when their boyfriend drives them home, like with that menacing look, like you might be wielding an axe handle.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that's true or not, like, there was some far-out stuff in that book, but like, I have always kept that as like ammo in my back pocket to be like, no, no, no, you want me to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want me to scare the Christ out of your belief.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, Ben.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also have a daughter, but she has two older brothers who I'm in a train to be to, yeah, put him up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we get out of here, I did want to just briefly touch on this Terian Arnold thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: For those of you guys who haven't seen it, the details of the arrest by and by the way Terian Arnold strongly denies his accusations via his agent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Denise White, over at EAAG, it effectively that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Agent Poblesis.
[SPEAKER_01]: Agent, I think she's the CEO of EAAG.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's a Poblesis.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's happening with the white, by you?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this is effectively, and you can read the accusations of full online, but like effectively, that terian art holds
[SPEAKER_01]: And some friends were staying in an Airbnb property got stolen from the Airbnb, and then a couple months later, they tracked down whoever stole it, and then they used women to lure the perpetrators to a place where people who weren't Terry on Arnold, the Terran Arnold was there on a livestream or whatever, and watching it or whatever, and conducting what was going to happen to these people, I'm wild.
[SPEAKER_01]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it was an orchestrate, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I have this right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've read it like the description a couple times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like so he thought he was robbed his Airbnb was robbed.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to get back at these people who didn't actually rob them, but he thought had robbed them.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had girls lure them back to a place and then there were some guys waiting in a closet and perp burst out of the closet to get the guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they were live streaming the whole thing and Terry and Arnold was on the live stream on his way there is that right I think so and then yeah so it seemed like a high level of premeditation right yeah um so.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know Dave Brickett from the Detroit Free Press posted last night.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he had the he was the first one on this that there is a sentence potentially that carries a lifetime in prison for Arnold.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would I would say this that typically
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're someone like Arnold and you can get a really good attorney, you don't get life in prison for something like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not yet ready to spin that towards the field, even though the effect on the Lions is probably horrendous.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure Dan Campbell, it's more concerned about the person at this point, but this is one of those classes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess it's like happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: earlier, but in the offseason.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is one of these like offs examples of an offseason story that people and facilities just have nightmares about constantly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a speech that every player in the league got over the last couple of weeks, which is like basically,
[SPEAKER_00]: don't do dumb shit and like it's I always tell people like you know that you know everybody asks you about your schedule and it's like when does it actually shut down and I always tell I'm like this is the time of year where I can kind of unplug unless someone blows their hand off of fireworks which actually happened you know that's always the example the crazy one to me that was
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, like I had the Steve McNair case happen, like in on July 4th, if you remember.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so yeah, this is the time of year when this stuff, some of this stuff happens and like I think with what Terian Arnold, it's going to be interesting because like, is this a commissioner is exempt, but how does this work logistically with the lead to, you know, I'm not sure exactly how to handle it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, not in the lines, I probably asked them, if I was the lines, I would ask, can you put them on the commissioner, the example, what's we don't, we don't have to deal with it right now, but, you know, there are some rules to that too, which I'm not sure they can accommodate them on that, I'm not sure I have to look that up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure everyone in 345 park right now is like does anyone want to talk about the the fallout from the miles Garrett trade you know like because I think last year remember last year we had like a like a like a creepily quiet off season like there was like nothing that happened from like and correct me from wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might be wrong But like from like June 20th to like the start of training camp and even like into training camp.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like there wasn't a lot of like pending contracts.
[SPEAKER_01]: There wasn't a lot of these like you know
[SPEAKER_00]: We're sort of set up that way now too, I think, right, because Kyle pits is taking care of so that you can George Pickett's who they've already kind of broken off negotiations is the only franchise tag player so that that won't be, I mean, you wouldn't think that would be an issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: That franchise tag deadline and then
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like we'll be talking about contracts of course, but like that's whatever bigger may feel it's going to sign July 20th August 20th at some point that'll get done.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure, you know, I like third there isn't a ton this year either.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We, uh, you think Baker gets done by the way, like, what do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I mean, I don't think it's as complex.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like one of those where it's like tough for the box because it's like man, like we've had this great deal on him the last, you know, the last three years sucks that we got to pay him a fairway.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now we have to tell yeah, now we have to like look at paying him at the top of the park.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which was like, if you look at it like part of the model for them has been like, okay,
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like with a lot I think it's like almost identical to what the Lions got went through right because they had Jared go off in a pretty good right right there Like $25 million per for a bunch of years and then eventually the bill came do on that was it last year or two years ago that they paid them 55 I Before we did the the SI cover story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's 2024
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I like I think that like that's relatively simple with Baker.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, you know, do a three-year deal at somewhere between 165 and 180, you know, and like I think everybody walks away happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Baker wants to be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He moved to Tampa, who just family there because he wanted to like be the quarterback long-term there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think after everything that he's been through,
[SPEAKER_01]: I did the quick math on this and the reason why I'm so curious as we close this out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I made an interesting discovery the other day.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looked like math there by the way, 165 to 180, like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did three times 55 and that's very times 60.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I did, you did three times 55 fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was my problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't do that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all I did was three times 60's easy, so I did 180 and then I just did minus 15.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but that's even a level that I'm not capable of operating on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was, I scored high on my SATs, my mathization.
[SPEAKER_00]: My grades didn't reflect it, but.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only reason I could do numbers in my head, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: The reason why I care is because I have my Hunter Bowl predictions column.
[SPEAKER_01]: I predicted that Baker may feel would sign for 50 plus before the start of the season.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it came to my attention recently that there is a guy with a YouTube channel that goes through all hundred of my bold predictions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then does like meme reactions to them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think as a way to like make fun of me, but you could be
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like hundred scare you flattered scared well here's the thing used flattered because I think it was meant to make fun of me And this this video on YouTube as like hundreds like more than a hundred thousand views, but all the comments are like low key, Connor
[SPEAKER_01]: whipped ass in this thing like I did camords like full rookie projections and I was off by like not that much like yeah like I missed it by like 150 passing yards that's wild and so I'm starting to care about this a little bit now that I know that there's guy making youtube content generating well that was like doesn't mean I'm on a craft that's been on a craft like I really
[SPEAKER_01]: you know what I mean like so yeah um well i think that's all we got for today but it was a fun time talking source b and just kind of getting to the bottom of it i don't think this is something that's going to go away uh as it often doesn't when there are a bit of an hour i think it's going to be a great topic because it's going to be a good one in general for all of us to talk about such a huge part of sports now um yeah by the way like if draft kings are
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not trying to drive you away, you know what, it's part, it's part of the deal, it's part of the business, it's part of what we do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I actually think like I actually think it helps, like I'm up the camp that I think avoiding talking about these things doesn't help those companies.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, okay, it helps to have the discussion out there so it's more on the level, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: We're probably going to do so a little bit of a programming note like that 4th of July time period We'll probably go dark as a program but we're going to have some episodes leading into the offseason for you guys to enjoy And guys summers here like get out to the beach go walk in the park go get like a
[SPEAKER_01]: Empanata from a food truck like this is a cool thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to take the kids to pull here a little bit Yeah, baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so I like it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're going to go ride some kayaks today like let's go enjoy your summer and We'll be back in a couple days