WEBVTT 00:06.453 --> 00:07.274 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 00:07.294 --> 00:22.867 [SPEAKER_01]: So last week, Scott sent me a Slack and said, quote, as I've worked on some YouTube things, I have actively tried to avoid the short I made me about the trafficking only fans house so you can shock and appall me on camera with that info. 00:25.029 --> 00:31.074 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels a little absurd to be thinking that way, but hopefully it makes good enough content that it informs other people. 00:31.094 --> 00:31.174 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 00:32.657 --> 00:32.837 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 00:33.678 --> 00:38.141 [SPEAKER_01]: Very thoughtful and insightful of you to share your distress with others. 00:39.061 --> 00:39.322 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 00:39.362 --> 00:41.803 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm also happy to avoid bad news when I can. 00:42.884 --> 00:44.385 [SPEAKER_01]: But alas, here we are. 00:44.985 --> 00:45.386 [SPEAKER_01]: Alas. 00:45.906 --> 00:47.988 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, so I just want to give you 00:49.558 --> 00:58.443 [SPEAKER_01]: a brief overview and then I want to talk more in detail about this case because it's important and interesting for lots of different reasons. 00:58.683 --> 01:15.132 [SPEAKER_01]: So last month a SWAT team arrested a 21 year old by the name of Nikita Tukalo on four counts of human trafficking, money laundering and leading an organized crime ring where teenagers were coerced into participating in sexually explicit content. 01:15.552 --> 01:16.673 [SPEAKER_01]: for profit. 01:17.214 --> 01:20.357 [SPEAKER_01]: Now two other men ages 20 and 22. 01:20.697 --> 01:25.182 [SPEAKER_01]: They are anonymous because they have not been charged or arrested yet. 01:26.043 --> 01:31.148 [SPEAKER_01]: But they have been accused of being involved with this and the police say that additional arrests are likely. 01:31.208 --> 01:32.269 [SPEAKER_00]: We're like jumping right in. 01:32.309 --> 01:32.849 [SPEAKER_00]: This has got. 01:36.397 --> 01:37.718 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's a lot to process. 01:37.778 --> 01:38.178 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. 01:38.858 --> 01:53.244 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was a dive it in faster than I was like mentally prepared for Okay, so one person's been you said case and I was thinking oh is it like cases in We're examining this like a case study. 01:53.404 --> 01:55.725 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's like a A brass case. 01:55.765 --> 01:59.726 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, full case a legal case criminal case. 01:59.826 --> 02:00.407 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yep. 02:00.967 --> 02:01.727 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, okay. 02:02.187 --> 02:03.668 [SPEAKER_00]: What so one person's been arrested 02:04.949 --> 02:08.032 [SPEAKER_01]: Two others have been accused and not no actions been taken. 02:08.132 --> 02:19.100 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the only part I'm like watching on too, but the bigger headlines probably like trafficking happening currently on only fans. 02:19.261 --> 02:19.501 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 02:20.021 --> 02:20.241 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 02:20.261 --> 02:26.887 [SPEAKER_01]: So criminal case, yeah, related to human trafficking, money laundering, organized crime, ring. 02:27.607 --> 02:37.335 [SPEAKER_01]: related to sexual explicit content that young people are creating, and then additionally the perpetrators are also young people, so that's interesting to note. 02:38.155 --> 02:41.218 [SPEAKER_01]: So some background that's helpful for this case. 02:42.078 --> 02:47.142 [SPEAKER_01]: When the SWAT team arrested this individual, they had rated this house. 02:47.422 --> 02:52.606 [SPEAKER_01]: People are calling it a mansion in Washington, because it is a very large property, 02:55.108 --> 03:08.271 [SPEAKER_01]: But backgrounds, before the arrests and raids happened, multiple neighbors had filed complaints and the police had received over a hundred emergency calls, related to parties that were being held at this property. 03:08.611 --> 03:10.831 [SPEAKER_01]: So these parties were promoted on social media. 03:10.891 --> 03:15.552 [SPEAKER_01]: They required paid admission and attracted hundreds of young people. 03:15.612 --> 03:19.153 [SPEAKER_01]: So hundreds of people were coming to these parties on the weekends. 03:19.953 --> 03:23.154 [SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of these complaints were related to underage drinking, 03:24.414 --> 03:27.137 [SPEAKER_01]: other issues of that nature. 03:28.378 --> 03:39.148 [SPEAKER_01]: Because of those complaints, the police were able to launch an investigation because there were concerns that human trafficking was happening at that location and involving underage teens. 03:39.728 --> 03:50.095 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's sort of everything that was happening behind the scenes before all these allegations came out and before the police started really investigating like publicly. 03:51.276 --> 03:56.059 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's important to note that these individuals had a reputation. 03:56.099 --> 04:02.103 [SPEAKER_01]: They were displaying their wealth, displaying the luxury and this sort of glamorous lifestyle. 04:02.844 --> 04:06.766 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's important to note before we get 04:09.648 --> 04:11.411 [SPEAKER_01]: you know, with these girls. 04:12.512 --> 04:22.646 [SPEAKER_00]: Important because of like just that they were using that as like promoting the parties of like, look at all the cool things you could come do with this. 04:23.496 --> 04:26.379 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so it's a, yeah, like luxury property. 04:26.419 --> 04:32.205 [SPEAKER_01]: There was a McLaren there, which if you know anything about cars, that's like one of the most expensive cars you can buy. 04:32.225 --> 04:39.011 [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess I'll just say here, so charges outlining sophisticated recruitment network of young people. 04:39.272 --> 04:43.956 [SPEAKER_01]: So again, like kind of when you're old, Ish, who would persuade teenage girls to participate. 04:44.777 --> 04:48.661 [SPEAKER_01]: in creating sort of sexual content on the promise of big money. 04:49.141 --> 04:54.606 [SPEAKER_01]: They were told that they would have complete autonomy to choose how explicit their content would be. 04:54.746 --> 05:03.814 [SPEAKER_01]: So swimsuit pictures or like, you know, wearing shorts, but we're then coerced and forced into creating pornography for these other people's profit. 05:04.434 --> 05:14.663 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, sure, you come into this situation and you're told that this is how it's going to be and you can sent to this very narrow situation that you've been told. 05:15.683 --> 05:18.166 [SPEAKER_01]: But in reality, that's not at all what they experienced. 05:18.706 --> 05:25.091 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, just because they initially consented to, you know, what was, you know, lie, they relied to. 05:25.211 --> 05:26.612 [SPEAKER_01]: But that's what they consented to. 05:26.632 --> 05:31.456 [SPEAKER_01]: That does not mean that they consented to, again, all of the reviews that we'll go into together. 05:35.827 --> 05:37.909 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, is correct. 05:38.909 --> 05:44.694 [SPEAKER_01]: So some of that abuse and what it actually looks like for the girls. 05:45.826 --> 05:49.589 [SPEAKER_01]: trigger warning for anybody, um, yeah, just know that. 05:50.289 --> 05:58.254 [SPEAKER_01]: So these, uh, I, I side now preface because there were some people who were confused about this on social media when we had initially posted about this. 05:58.975 --> 06:05.679 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, as far as I understand and what's been reported on, the girls who were involved with this were, 06:06.740 --> 06:31.873 [SPEAKER_01]: perhaps like coerced into it or pressured into it while they were underage but were participating after they had turned 18 and the all of the news articles referred to these girls as women and so I will be referring to them as women but I do understand that they are teenagers and just want to make that clear that it's for people who are sensitive about that. 06:32.373 --> 06:41.185 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, anyways, so these women worked for periods of a few months up to one and a half years, so that's basically how long it had been going on for. 06:41.565 --> 06:46.051 [SPEAKER_01]: They were forced to create content for up to 20 hours a day, which isn't sane. 06:47.220 --> 07:09.708 [SPEAKER_01]: And then along with that, like chatting with people, um, because you know these this content was being distributed to platforms like only fans chatter bait strip chat these sites where there is sort of a personal element and so it was filming content and then being required to spend hours communicating with these people who were subscribers and 07:10.909 --> 07:23.536 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so a lot of time and as soon as they had agreed to kind of be on board with this Nikita and these other alleged perpetrators took control of their passwords and their accounts. 07:23.796 --> 07:26.137 [SPEAKER_01]: So these women had no idea how much money they were making. 07:26.157 --> 07:36.063 [SPEAKER_01]: They had no access to their accounts or what it was that they were posting and detectives found several checks and bank accounts containing hundreds of thousands of dollars. 07:36.923 --> 07:43.369 [SPEAKER_01]: So again, these women were promised up to $18,000 a month, but only ever saw maybe $1,000 a month. 07:43.930 --> 07:51.677 [SPEAKER_01]: One girl said that she was gifted $32,000 by subscriber and then received a beating when she tried to hide the payment and turn the money over. 07:51.697 --> 07:54.660 [SPEAKER_01]: And she said, quote, I let them because I was scared. 07:54.780 --> 07:56.802 [SPEAKER_01]: I thought I was going to get killed to be honest. 07:57.943 --> 08:01.045 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's a big part of the reality, 08:04.146 --> 08:04.446 [SPEAKER_00]: What? 08:05.067 --> 08:05.547 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow. 08:05.827 --> 08:06.187 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 08:06.748 --> 08:19.795 [SPEAKER_00]: I've only seen headlines about some of this other stuff and again, I try and stay out of a lot of it from my own sanity, but the idea of like, managers, like managers on only fans, managing people as accounts. 08:20.716 --> 08:31.022 [SPEAKER_00]: I've wondered about how that's just a little tweak on prostitution, a little of like, their managers on only fans, 08:33.662 --> 08:34.102 [SPEAKER_01]: mm-hmm. 08:35.363 --> 08:51.968 [SPEAKER_00]: And from that example it sounds like that's exactly what's happening like that's stuff is happening and people are the people that are paying for subscriptions or are sending those gifts are not aware at all mm-hmm. 08:52.708 --> 08:58.410 [SPEAKER_00]: That they're paying some random guys that are the ones 09:04.680 --> 09:10.841 [SPEAKER_01]: on sort of an interesting and kind of dangerous business model for a platform like OnlyFans. 09:11.261 --> 09:17.383 [SPEAKER_01]: We see a lot of times that the understanding is that it is an ethical site because there's not a middleman. 09:17.683 --> 09:32.886 [SPEAKER_01]: It's, you know, it sort of advertises the creator posts directly to the platform and so therefore you know for a fact that you are getting content that was ethically and consensually produced because it goes directly from the creator to you, the consumer. 09:33.206 --> 09:34.907 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but obviously not right. 09:34.947 --> 10:00.894 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this is such a good example that yeah, you can't know the circumstances around the creation of content and it's dangerous to assume that you do because again people go on to only fans and you know we've seen a bigger turn in attitude recently a people who do recognize that there is abuse and exploitation that happens in the industry and so they turn to platforms like only fans to try to be more conscientious of their choices and try to, you know, 10:01.474 --> 10:22.379 [SPEAKER_01]: be more ethical in that way, which, you know, we're glad that people are considering those things, but then it's dangerous to go to a platform like only fans where they say, yes, like you're getting content directly from the creator because a lot of people don't even think to consider that there's another option that there could be some abuse or exploitation happening because that's not what's being told to them, you know? 10:24.560 --> 10:24.740 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 10:25.549 --> 10:32.875 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, this is a case where we're seeing very clearly that lots of money was made watching content that was not consensual. 10:33.896 --> 10:41.682 [SPEAKER_01]: And in fact, a lot of these women, again, they say that they followed along because they were scared of being killed. 10:42.343 --> 10:47.928 [SPEAKER_01]: Women report being strangled, slapped, threatened with guns, spit on and be in. 10:48.388 --> 10:52.852 [SPEAKER_01]: One woman described being forced to crawl naked on the floor, quote, like a dog. 10:53.312 --> 10:55.434 [SPEAKER_01]: with a gun pointed toward her head. 10:56.496 --> 11:01.041 [SPEAKER_01]: The women say that they were given admiral like candy to keep them working. 11:01.601 --> 11:12.173 [SPEAKER_01]: One victim said that she tried to leave and all of her belongings were sent to Goodwill and she was left with nothing at a supermarket just wearing t-shirts and a short and had nothing else. 11:12.813 --> 11:13.154 [SPEAKER_01]: And so 11:14.535 --> 11:23.064 [SPEAKER_01]: We see, you know, we can look at this case now with this understanding and we can look back and say, oh, that's too bad that that happened. 11:23.404 --> 11:26.507 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's too bad that women were living in these circumstances. 11:26.607 --> 11:31.572 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, but you can't know that these things happened when you were watching the content. 11:32.012 --> 11:32.673 [SPEAKER_01]: Six months ago. 11:32.693 --> 11:35.936 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or oh, man. 11:36.457 --> 11:37.558 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 11:37.618 --> 11:38.159 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a lot. 11:38.359 --> 11:38.479 [SPEAKER_01]: And 11:39.644 --> 11:52.192 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking when I saw the video that you posted, talking about this initially and I was like, I won't watch that because I know we're going to talk about it. 11:54.633 --> 11:59.896 [SPEAKER_00]: I did not expect or think that it would be this bad, like that bad. 12:01.058 --> 12:07.360 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what I don't know why I would think that or what I was thinking in its place but that man. 12:07.720 --> 12:08.380 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 12:08.860 --> 12:18.623 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'd love to ask you a little bit more about that, because obviously the qualifiers of sex trafficking is forced for odd or coercion or if someone under 18 is involved. 12:19.103 --> 12:25.425 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we see a lot of times cases where it's coercion and it's not this. 12:26.265 --> 12:33.871 [SPEAKER_01]: really dramatisised version of trafficking that a lot of people have in understanding about like, you know, on take-in. 12:33.891 --> 12:34.491 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not taking. 12:34.712 --> 12:51.645 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and of course that does happen in those cases are just a serious, but again, you know, people who are co-worst or are threatened or manipulated into these situations, that is still trafficking and should still be treated the same way, but this is one of those cases where it is, 12:52.545 --> 12:56.707 [SPEAKER_01]: blatant in your face that this was not not consensual. 12:56.747 --> 12:57.587 [SPEAKER_01]: This was abuse. 12:58.848 --> 13:00.648 [SPEAKER_01]: It's forced fraud and coercion. 13:00.788 --> 13:02.789 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think, I don't know. 13:03.349 --> 13:06.951 [SPEAKER_00]: I see the comments that people make where 13:07.731 --> 13:17.374 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't understand why those women don't just leave or that, you know, they would have made different decisions or whatever it is. 13:17.874 --> 13:22.076 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, in that situation, you're not 13:23.036 --> 13:23.636 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 13:24.157 --> 13:27.438 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not making it from a healthy place to start. 13:27.498 --> 13:33.400 [SPEAKER_00]: They've been given adder also, they can keep working, they're exhausted. 13:33.840 --> 13:44.785 [SPEAKER_00]: And so to just say that all these women should have left feels like, when you're just sitting there fearing for your life because of God 13:51.607 --> 14:09.291 [SPEAKER_00]: I think about those comments, and I think those people are just, maybe they're idealizing themselves, or they just don't really understand the situation that you're actually in, in that, that seems impossible. 14:09.851 --> 14:12.392 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to make a good decision if somebody's pointing out at me. 14:13.865 --> 14:21.829 [SPEAKER_00]: good is the wrong way to say it, but I'm not going to make a, I'm, I'm just going to make the immediate survival choice. 14:22.140 --> 14:26.824 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, you're in a situation where it's not safe to say, no, it doesn't feel safe. 14:27.765 --> 14:39.014 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of us, it's like I'm lucky enough that I've never been put in a situation where I have to, you know, where I would know what I would do in a situation where a gun's being pointed at me and I'm told to do this thing. 14:39.054 --> 14:40.655 [SPEAKER_01]: I've never been put in that situation. 14:41.156 --> 14:45.780 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm not gonna sit here and shame women who have made decisions that 14:46.600 --> 15:09.753 [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to keep them safe and protected, and I think it's important in these situations also to maybe question why is it that we are focused so much on how victims respond to abuse and exploitation rather than focusing on the exploitation and the exploiters to cause that harm to begin with because if they had enough 15:10.473 --> 15:18.620 [SPEAKER_01]: put those women in that situation, then those women wouldn't have been forced to make a decision that you as a commenter sitting at home disagree with. 15:18.660 --> 15:21.082 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and it's, and yes, absolutely. 15:21.142 --> 15:30.450 [SPEAKER_00]: And on top of that, from what you started with in the beginning, it sounds like, I don't know if I don't want to speculate a bunch, but I don't know when. 15:31.150 --> 15:43.507 [SPEAKER_00]: These, you know, whatever, the recruitment process, these relationships started, but you said it that there were all of the content was of, you know, people of legal age right after. 15:46.350 --> 15:50.192 [SPEAKER_00]: So the recruitment process probably started earlier. 15:50.212 --> 16:12.564 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the four victims who have come forward so far Say they recruited when they were 17 and persuaded to make content on their 18th birthday So it's legal in the sense that they are of legal age But yeah, to your point this process started before they legally could give their consent and before 16:13.484 --> 16:20.208 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like most people wouldn't know what to do in a situation like this, and especially not teenagers. 16:21.349 --> 16:35.998 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, so I think it's important in cases like this to stay focused on the abuse and the abusers and give empathy to victims and recognize what they've been through and 16:36.718 --> 16:43.120 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, consenting to something is not the same as consenting to all of this that happened to them. 16:43.140 --> 16:51.743 [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the reasons why this particular case has gone a lot of traction is because it does have a lot of those elements that feel more 16:53.087 --> 17:08.973 [SPEAKER_01]: scary or feel, you know, no one wants to hear that teenagers are being, you know, threatened with guns and told to film this content for profit, but yeah, at the time of this recording, 17:09.793 --> 17:24.609 [SPEAKER_01]: to Kahlo has pled not guilty in his first court appearance as being held on a $5 million bail with concerns over witness intimidation and access to resources to flee the country. 17:25.393 --> 17:36.438 [SPEAKER_01]: So again, while this case has not been fully prosecuted and processed in the court systems, but I think that's a good that tells you how serious this case is. 17:36.518 --> 17:41.140 [SPEAKER_01]: $5 million bail is a lot for them to give just after an initial appearance. 17:41.920 --> 17:51.545 [SPEAKER_01]: So again, the focus here should be on the individuals and the systems that allow these types of abuse to occur. 17:52.645 --> 17:57.486 [SPEAKER_01]: So, and then I wanted to ask you about this too because just thinking about why this case has gone so much traction. 17:58.466 --> 18:13.930 [SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if there's a connection between how much only fans has been sort of normalized and even glamorized in media and, you know, you see headlines all the time of people who are making just crazy absurd amounts of money. 18:13.950 --> 18:18.011 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you think that the success, 18:23.052 --> 18:45.650 [SPEAKER_01]: Do in part two how normalized and glamorized this type of work has become because you think about those girls initially again They didn't agree to everything that happened to them, but they were persuaded to create some sort of sexual content in exchange for money So do you think that that plays a role here and allowing these types of schemes to be successful? 18:46.882 --> 18:58.424 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think that blows my mind about only fans is that it's all promoted on other social media platforms. 18:58.524 --> 19:06.906 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, like kid on social media, also see this content, like it's everywhere. 19:07.346 --> 19:12.607 [SPEAKER_00]: And you see people talking about how much they're making 19:16.831 --> 19:17.182 [SPEAKER_00]: You know. 19:18.070 --> 19:41.656 [SPEAKER_00]: the lifestyle that it leads to or whatever, it's, yeah, when you're a teenager, just turning a team, like trying to figure out what you're going to do in life, how you're going to make money, what you're going to do to be able to, you know, jump up to crazy, a crazy number for income, immediately, if you could build that kind of following or 19:47.795 --> 19:48.041 [SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm. 19:49.475 --> 19:59.820 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really scary to think that that's accessible, not just accessible, but like, algorithms are actively promoting it. 20:01.240 --> 20:11.325 [SPEAKER_00]: How much do we think that we have that we're in control as we scroll through any social media and how much are we actually not? 20:11.865 --> 20:14.446 [SPEAKER_00]: We're being fed what the algorithm wants to show us. 20:20.390 --> 20:29.200 [SPEAKER_00]: getting suggested content like this and you start to see it as a viable career or, you know, 20:30.163 --> 20:43.257 [SPEAKER_00]: you're you're a guy trying to not watch porn but you're on something else and the algorithm is dictating what you see and it's I don't know it's just a crazy thing to think about. 20:43.377 --> 20:50.264 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think we think we're in control maybe more than we are or we think that places are 20:52.110 --> 21:06.523 [SPEAKER_01]: safer to exist online than they actually are I don't know yeah which I think is kind of again going back to a big theme of yeah like you can think that this content is 21:07.244 --> 21:26.849 [SPEAKER_01]: safe for consensual because it is everywhere you see it in your feed on Instagram and they want to show you stuff that's you know maybe not coming from a safe place and you go on only fans because you're getting content directly from the creator but you can't know that and it's dangerous to assume so. 21:27.009 --> 21:33.716 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you assume that Instagram is safer, especially because there's ads on TV, that's like Instagram for teens. 21:34.056 --> 21:34.636 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 21:34.937 --> 21:38.941 [SPEAKER_00]: But wasn't there a, I saw in the current events channel recently. 21:39.181 --> 21:41.683 [SPEAKER_00]: It was like, said something. 21:41.943 --> 21:42.964 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was about meta. 21:43.185 --> 21:48.210 [SPEAKER_00]: And it was the only thing consistent about the way new to these. 21:50.008 --> 21:51.630 [SPEAKER_00]: moderated on Instagram. 21:51.930 --> 21:53.091 [SPEAKER_00]: Is it inconsistency? 21:53.111 --> 21:55.353 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that was some, that was the headline. 21:56.094 --> 21:56.454 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 21:56.514 --> 21:59.276 [SPEAKER_01]: It's flagged sometimes, but then other people get away with it. 21:59.577 --> 21:59.857 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:00.177 --> 22:00.517 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 22:01.138 --> 22:03.940 [SPEAKER_01]: I know it's, it gets messy and it's tricky. 22:04.801 --> 22:10.766 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think, you know, we're an organization that is trying to educate people on these things so that we can 22:11.407 --> 22:24.681 [SPEAKER_01]: protect and support women like this who have experienced exploitation, but also preventing it in the future, helping others to recognize the relationship and connection between watching and feeling a demand for a pornographic content. 22:24.802 --> 22:26.864 [SPEAKER_01]: And then, you know, people meeting that. 22:27.384 --> 22:29.185 [SPEAKER_01]: that demand with the supply. 22:29.245 --> 22:31.447 [SPEAKER_01]: That is unethical or non-consensual. 22:31.827 --> 22:38.030 [SPEAKER_01]: So we have in July, every year, we have our big stop the demand campaign. 22:38.591 --> 22:44.314 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you just like, in two sentences explain what that campaign is, why people should care about it? 22:45.410 --> 22:55.678 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, stop the demand is, I guess, our short hand for stop the demand for exactly this type of exploitation. 22:56.519 --> 23:00.241 [SPEAKER_00]: Pornography is the second most common form of trafficking. 23:00.622 --> 23:12.171 [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't, before I started working here, I didn't realize the connection between this type of exploitation and pornography. 23:14.332 --> 23:31.203 [SPEAKER_00]: people think about pornography in the way that it would affect them personally or their relationships, but they don't think about how it was produced or the people involved in the consequences for their life. 23:31.383 --> 23:41.829 [SPEAKER_00]: It has such a larger effect in our world of, and on people, in our world, that is real 23:43.330 --> 23:55.477 [SPEAKER_00]: tragic and to stop, contributing to the demand for this type of content to be produced, because the only reason it's made is because people are paying to watch it. 23:55.657 --> 24:05.262 [SPEAKER_00]: Like if they couldn't make money, if these traffickers couldn't make money off of that content, would they be doing this? 24:05.702 --> 24:05.882 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 24:06.883 --> 24:07.203 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 24:07.966 --> 24:12.168 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and if you, again, we know that this is a big topic. 24:12.188 --> 24:14.689 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a new topic for some of our listeners. 24:15.789 --> 24:19.911 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, again, this whole campaign is a month-long campaign. 24:20.231 --> 24:25.614 [SPEAKER_01]: Follow us on social media because we'll be posting articles, carousels, stats, 24:26.114 --> 24:31.055 [SPEAKER_01]: current events, things related to this to help you understand and consider these things. 24:31.175 --> 24:47.580 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a landing page, which Scott was able to create for us, which has links and resources to a lot of information, interviews, et cetera, things that you would be helpful for you to know as you're learning about these. 24:47.600 --> 24:49.461 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of really good information that is 24:51.381 --> 25:01.629 [SPEAKER_00]: whether you are personally trying to stop watching porn or it's affecting people in your life or whatever, just to know how far the effects of it go. 25:01.789 --> 25:17.682 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's really to have all the information is empowering and it helps you make good choices for yourself, which hopefully benefits others, way down the road in terms of stopping the demand for this kind of stuff. 25:18.547 --> 25:19.027 [SPEAKER_01]: word. 25:19.767 --> 25:21.308 [SPEAKER_01]: So stop the demand. 25:22.008 --> 25:22.648 [SPEAKER_01]: Check it out. 25:23.388 --> 25:29.329 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's ftnd.org slash trafficking is where you will find all that information. 25:29.369 --> 25:30.249 [SPEAKER_01]: So join the fight. 25:30.889 --> 25:35.730 [SPEAKER_01]: Stop the demand for exploitation and say no. 25:35.750 --> 25:36.530 [SPEAKER_01]: Two months. 25:37.251 --> 25:38.171 [SPEAKER_01]: Say no. 25:39.071 --> 25:40.131 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what to say no. 25:40.371 --> 25:41.631 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, our catchphrase. 25:41.671 --> 25:43.392 [SPEAKER_01]: One of them say no to 25:45.844 --> 25:49.273 [SPEAKER_00]: know where we were going, but I do believe in that very much. 25:49.293 --> 25:51.178 [SPEAKER_01]: You're like, say, no, it's a clowns. 25:51.278 --> 25:53.062 [SPEAKER_01]: What's this was new to me? 25:53.203 --> 25:54.686 [SPEAKER_00]: I also don't want clowns.