[SPEAKER_03]: This podcast is a member of the Voices of Wrestling Podcasting Network.
[SPEAKER_03]: Visit Voicesof Wrestling.com to hear the rest of our great podcast as well as show reviews, columns, opinions, and updates across the world of wrestling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look at that one so hard!
[UNKNOWN]: Hope you fall!
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to Open the Voice Gate for June 23rd, 2026.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are members of the Voices of Wrestling Podcast Network.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find us on the Voices of Wrestling Podcast Network feed or on our own dedicated Open the Voice Gate feed wherever you get your podcasts.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can find us on social media at Open Voice Gate, both on Twitter and on Blue Sky.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you'd like to donate to the show, click the link in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It'll take you to ourredcircle.com landing site.
[SPEAKER_00]: You click the red boxes to sponsor this podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: See you next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: or recurring donation, no obligation whatsoever, but we would like to think all of our previous donors.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Wonderhouse, it's your old pal Mike Spears, join alongside our other host case, low in case.
[SPEAKER_00]: We were before we got and hit record, we were just discussing about the state of this company of which we covered, Dragon Gate coming out of this Hakata,
[SPEAKER_00]: double shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: And 2026 feels like it keeps on kind of chung, uh, chumming us downhill, downhill, downhill, but how are you doing, bud?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm not a awesome, you know, it's a we're very much of this very interesting point in the show where I have to come on here every weekend and figure out a new way to say largely the same thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a very interesting position to be in.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I saw the strokes last week, the strokes were great.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a rock band.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, bigger than ever.
[SPEAKER_03]: The strokes for people my age are like the Eagles, they're like this vestige of classic rock that like.
[SPEAKER_00]: which first off I like to say saying that the strokes is classic rock is very rude to someone in my age.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't agree with it either, but it's just one of those things.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was having a conversation with somebody last week about the song last for his or by pop a roach.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I should note that I have met Jacobi from pop a roach and he is legitimately one of the nicest human beings alive.
[SPEAKER_03]: I always rank people based on like, okay, if number one is Paul London.
[SPEAKER_03]: and number two is Chris Hero when he's trying to sell you a t-shirt because you're convinced at that point that you guys are best friends and will be forever and ever.
[SPEAKER_03]: Jacoby's like in the top five of nice people that I've ever interacted with and I always appreciate that about him even if you know pop a roach is pop a roach and and that is both good and bad but I was talking to somebody last week about how last resort
[SPEAKER_03]: has become what people might call like an emo anthem, even though it has no ties to any sort of emo music, no ties to any emo band.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I watched
[SPEAKER_03]: completely different genre but I watched an emo cover band last week cover last resort and I was with somebody who was around your age and they're like I'd like what the hell they were doing Jimmy world of my chemical romance I was like yeah, but to a 25 year old pop a roaches kind of the same thing and the same way that the strokes
[SPEAKER_03]: are kind of the closest thing that we have to a classic rock band now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because they're a cooler, cooler, cooler, but they like still have songs that rip.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, did you think it's like the whole the the garage rock revival that them and are pull or kind of at the forefront of do you think that like Like especially like being in my early 20s when that happened and like all those bands that kind of just arrived out of nowhere and having kind of at least a retro sensibility do you think that it part of it is the fact that they so like tapped in on a sentiment that at least.
[SPEAKER_00]: in like, in like the year 2000 and the four and five, like felt like that they were kind of trying to be the Rolling Stones of like this kind of things makes it much more easier to lump them into it than acts that I would put around like that kind of movement like LCD sound system at the same time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because I think the production on it is closer to an older band than an LCD sound system that is like the AAS or of their
[SPEAKER_03]: MGM tier, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, that is for people my age that's still like a cool retro song, but not in the same way that the strokes are where They have these really cool older songs.
[SPEAKER_03]: The other thing is people might like the so the strokes have a record coming out, but they put out an album in 2020 That have legitimate hits on that people my age were like, I like this new strokes out of and so I went with
[SPEAKER_03]: My girlfriend who had never seen the strokes before, and the stuff that she was popping for was less the stuff on is the set and room on fire and more like, oh, the stuff from 2020 that got me into the strokes, that's what I really want to hear.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's like a multi-generational band at this point where you can be into hard to explain or reptilia
[SPEAKER_03]: owed to the mats or whatever the adults are talking whatever else is on that record.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, but I noticed it there like that that stroke show 22,000 people the United Center, it was people in their 20s more so the people in their 40 is it's a young person's ban for whatever reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just seems like the more I kind of like let it like sink in, it rings around in my head and I go like, okay, yes, no, I think that the strokes it makes sense why they would have this kind of revival.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still the pop a roach saying that they're emo when like, what would these same people say the same thing about Lincoln Park being emo?
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess it was just a thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think Lincoln Park is like, like, to un-
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, uninformed is the wrong word, but like a corn, corn would be my, my question.
[SPEAKER_03]: Corn is not emo.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to, and I'm talking, I'm going to use just gin pop 26 year old, just likes music to like a normal degree.
[SPEAKER_03]: Corn is not emo.
[SPEAKER_03]: Lincoln Park would be emo adjacent.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like it would just dial into, I guess, the unclean vocal aspect of it all.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe, so there's a DJ in Chicago, this guy, Greg Corner, who used to be in the band Kill Hanna, is a very nice guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, very nice guy, and is a very popular DJ here.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was once talking to him at a show that he was DJing at.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was doing, like, in between sets, in between bands, he was DJing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he told me he goes, watch what happens.
[SPEAKER_03]: when I when I start this next to you just watch what happens when I play lit my own worst anime because he was playing all emo songs.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was fallout boy and you know my camera whatever else and he goes to go it's I have to play my own worst enemy now.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not it's the same thing as the paparossa thing where it's like lit it's not like lit has ties to the emo community but people now expect when they're at any sort of emo night they expect to hear my own worst enemy because they it's been
[SPEAKER_03]: canonically considered now to be an emo song he goes watch what happens when I play the places going to lose their mind and then I watch and play it and everybody in that room all four thousand people even though that song sucks people lost their minds for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, it's interesting how people kind of form like those links and to do it because now I'm like going through acts and someone that like I'm no murder Brian, but I was thoroughly into a lot of the new metal acts, especially in that like way they're going like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, God's Mac Adema, like God's Mac's not necessarily full new metal, but like in my brain now, I want to sit down to zoom and ask them which ones of these acts are emo or not, because like this is, in some ways like how watching 331, 06, like completely changed the way I looked at pro wrestling, that this is like a real foundation shattering thing you've laid upon me just to start off the show this week, buddy.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then it's weird what bands have cachet with young people and what don't because like God smack means nothing to somebody in their 20s.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is not a band that has crossed all the generations and all I know, but they were here this past weekend.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's like God smacks stone-tipple pilots tour and I can't imagine a worse evening of music.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they really earn on 2026 doing that just sounds real depressing and and there's going to be some real shouting about stuff that I just don't feel like I need to hear now, but like, you know, Olympus get is cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: God smack is unheard of like they just it's weird the way that that worked and then, you know, you have STP who.
[SPEAKER_03]: I always say with them, it's amazing that they wrote interstate love song because that song is so good.
[SPEAKER_03]: And yet they did nothing else like it and as a result, I don't like anything else they've ever done.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not a band that I enjoy outside of that one specific song that doesn't sound like anything else they ever did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's grung email.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do these kids?
[SPEAKER_03]: is grunge emo, that's a good question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nirvana's got to be emo using this logic.
[SPEAKER_03]: But Nirvana's a punk band and I always like, this is a big thing that my friend Sean Son and I talk about is we don't like grunge bands that much.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I tolerate Alison Chains, mainly like the disc, the discrepancy between like a good Alison Chains on a bad Alison Chains on a so huge because
[SPEAKER_03]: wood.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like wood and man in the box are incredible.
[SPEAKER_03]: No excuses and credible song.
[SPEAKER_03]: But rooster and dumb bones, it's an immediate like I'm ahead out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to hear this at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then Pearl Jam, I've never really cared about outside of some of the covers they've done and some of the softer
[SPEAKER_03]: Pearl Jam songs, like I wish every Pearl Jam song sounded like state of love and trust, but that's kind of an outlier in the entire thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then funny, I'm helping produce a Kim fail in a view later this week, the guitar from SoundGuard, and but like I'm not crazy about SoundGuard and the reason that I like Nirvana is that they're a punk band.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they have punk sensibilities, and I don't like those grunge bands.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think young people think grunge bands are emo.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think grunge is its own,
[SPEAKER_03]: marketing tool still.
[SPEAKER_03]: I still think people resonate with the word grunge.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they resonate with the word thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: But they don't really resonate with the word punk right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like punk is a thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't hear people describe things as punk right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that the avenues that you would see punk like really kind of flourish and like the punk like culture flourish.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're seeing other cultures flourish with those nowadays, especially like skateboarding in the
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot less, a lot more out of it, and I think that for, for something like skateboarding, that that's only natural, that's evolution, and that's globalism, and that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, it feels like that place is that you would really kind of like see that, just don't exist anymore, at least in the English speaking world.
[SPEAKER_00]: There could be all kinds of pop punk bands happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: overseas that I would not be surprised to hear from, but it just feels like that actually I like punk's moment feels somewhat older like over like I cannot imagine what Henry Rollins radio show sounds like today he's still doing it but like he's with Rollins that he's just sort of a stick in the mud and I like him but he's never evolved into like he's been heard a 21st century band that's just not something he's going to
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think Rollins has like formulated mostly a new view on things since 1985, which I mean, his direction in 1985 ended up being mostly right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, I don't blame him too much on this, but but I do think it's like notable that I feel like if you listen or pick up any Henry Rollins books nowadays, it's probably
[SPEAKER_00]: the tone and the content is the exact same as if you picked one up during the WRS, which is like my peaked Henry Rollins at like time for me, frankly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's funny you mentioned skateboarding because that in itself is going through such a weird identity crisis right now where all of a sudden there are these very pro cop right wing skateboarders that are like very
[SPEAKER_03]: taking, they have some level of influence in skateboarding that's taking in the direction that obviously I don't agree with, but now there's, there's like another contingent because you obviously have the Olympic stuff, which has already split skateboarding really bad, and it was never like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, the ex-games are universally beloved or due to her as universally beloved, but now there's this other extra emphasis on contest, but the contests have like referees and there are team names, and I just read a good thing from Nora Veska-Saus who's a professional skateboard.
[SPEAKER_03]: She's like, why is skateboarding trying to be the UFC?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I thought we were supposed to make fun of like team sports in all of these losers.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now everybody just wants to be the UFC.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like what the fuck happened?
[SPEAKER_03]: This is not what I got into skateboarding for.
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, yes, punk very much on the downturn emo is ambiguous grunge is still grunge and corn is still bad.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that is what we can take away from this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think we've done some real solid work here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so now we have to, you know, make sense of dragon game 2020.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can explain why pop a roach is kind of considered to be an emo band now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I cannot make sense of 2020, sixth rank.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mike, this promotion, this promotion sucks right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like it's it's it's really indefensible the weekend that they had and and how caught it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had a double shot at I previewed it last week and I was trying to be optimistic about certain things and boy after watching four hours of tracking gate and how caught that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder case are we ever going to move the plot forward in cities outside of Tokyo?
[SPEAKER_00]: again, like it feels like if you want something to happen in this company now, it has so only being cork in hall because nothing has changed from and dragging gate from the end of the second cork and at the start of the month and to right now it's been 18 days and we're still in these axioms bot we were.
[SPEAKER_03]: even with one match between these two shows that I would put as a low level four star match, and this would be, you know, it is going to be entered into the notebook.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's still just nothing essential from these shows.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's nothing that you have to see for yourself either from a quality standpoint or from a storyline standpoint.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you don't watch these shows,
[SPEAKER_03]: You can catch up just by listing to Jay and Ho Ho during the the cork and preview time on the next cork and show, but there's nothing that is happening where it's like, oh, I got to stop everything.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to make sure that I consume this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to stop what I'm doing and make sure that I like this motion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I got to see what's happening here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Case, they repeated these XA angles that they did in GIFU on the shows twice.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's not one of those where it's like, you know, you could be critical.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll use peak gate was the example not modern day gate, no, but.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, we would sometimes laugh at the idea of, okay, they're gonna get the, I remember specifically there was that G1 where a bad luck folly was in it and they're like, we're gonna get the bad luck fall over.
[SPEAKER_03]: Every single G1 match he has, he's gonna win with the bad luck fall and his opponent is going to get stretched her out.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it might get grating because we're watching all of this footage and by night seven, you're like, all right, I stretch out, Toby, I'm not gonna be all ready.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I got what's happening here.
[SPEAKER_03]: But,
[SPEAKER_03]: It will eventually pay off either of the end of that tournament or on the next tour and you'll understand why you went through all of that even if at times.
[SPEAKER_03]: In this consumption era that we're living in it is a little monotonous to consume all of that, but this isn't one of those deals where I have faith of okay, well, the repeating this angle.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I know where it's going to go.
[SPEAKER_03]: I trust that we're going to get some level of payoff here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I trust that this is going to be worth it in the long run.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have no trust.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have no faith.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do not like this production right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's a very, I talked about this two weeks ago, but it's a very odd thing where right now when I'm watching it, I'm having a hard time analyzing some of this stuff because I can't tell.
[SPEAKER_03]: If what I'm watching is just bad or if what I'm watching is just not what I would do, but I do feel a lot of clarity coming out of these two folk vocals shows that a lot of what I watched was not only not what I would do, but a lot of it was bad.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel very comfortable saying that now as we're less than a month away from Kobe world.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I find the build to this show.
[SPEAKER_03]: At this point in time,
[SPEAKER_03]: and maybe things will change which we get through corrican and something actually happens.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mike, I find the bill to Kobe world right now to be an outright disaster.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and like you look around at how things are.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Kobe world will be on July 20th on a Monday.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a Monday, everybody.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just remember that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's on Monday.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a holiday in Japan.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have only two and a half matches announced.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have the Dreambate match, which will be Madoka Kakuya, making a six defense against the winner of LCLO and KZ, who both don't feel like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They made a huge step forward on these Akata shows, but they're going to be facing off on the second in cork and hall, and that's going to be the main event.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then,
[SPEAKER_00]: really it's knockin how am I right after it's a knockin defeated doi he called he called out for number 12 and then we had that promo so it happened nothing has progressed in those two storylines since uh that uh cork and halish says shows but we do know that they didn't fit the next open the triangle gate champion will be decided at Kobe world we don't know what teams we don't know
[SPEAKER_00]: How it is going to be decided if it's going to be a tournament, if it's going to be just like two qualifying matches, what have you three qualifying matches, but it feels like it is mission critical at this point with this promotion, the fact that they just seem like that they're not bothering to play in for their biggest show of the year and their biggest building of the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just,
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes me wonder, like, are we just like, is the injury situation so bad that we are just trying to figure out stuff on the fly, shunes being hard to book for, so for like his, his appearance there, which shunes not going to be on the
[SPEAKER_00]: Is Rio Saito who is the shoot GM or this promotion tanking this year because there's no draft picks happening in Japanese per wrestling, at least last time I checked case and because it feels like that is is outright criminal negligence to be less than a month away from your biggest show the year and you only have two matches booked and you're not
[SPEAKER_00]: really doing anything to build those storylines and to build those challengers and to being credible challengers at Kobe world.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I basically last week, the companies in such a state that that I decided to go back and watch a lot of pack matches because there's just nothing going on here and we're month away from court from Kobe world.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you say the injury situation, but I, and I understand what you're saying, but just to be clear, it's Shimazoo and, and Ben are the guys on the shelves right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not forgetting anybody else.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got to got pulled out of the idea and say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it says it's minor, and Kamei is not, I haven't seen Kamei on anything since Takata.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, but at the very least, they were on Hakata.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're talking about, if Dragongate wants to make the claim of the injury situation,
[SPEAKER_03]: I gave them the run-up to Golden Coliseum with Shimazu's injury to be like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_03]: That sucks.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is a bummer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Shimazu was very clearly supposed to be doing huge stuff at the top of the card this year.
[SPEAKER_03]: But Shimazu also now has a wrestled sense of February.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Ben K. God bless him.
[SPEAKER_03]: I miss him, obviously.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not like he was being pushed as the guy that was going to de Throne, Kukuta before he got hurt.
[SPEAKER_03]: is still gross malpractice because if Shimazu was going to be involved and for his greatest he wasn't genuine or I do have a hard time believing that big boss Shimazu was going to headline Kobe world this year.
[SPEAKER_03]: You now have had a time to put away from that and you've got Ben Kay who was going to be in an undercard triangle gate batch at past and now he's not there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a time earlier in the year where I was like boom, injury, boom, injury, boom, injury, ah, this really sucks.
[SPEAKER_03]: But they've now been pretty healthy since April.
[SPEAKER_03]: In April, with Golden Coliseum, should've been the time to really get your ducks in the row and go into Kobe world strong.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, there's just, there's so many holes in this promotion that you can pick through.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's an odd thing in that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've said since March when my antennas really, really got up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I felt like Joe Lanzo watching the dynamite with Omega and Vikingo four years ago where they had the red, white and blue ropes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he went, hey, something is going on with this promotion.
[SPEAKER_03]: We all need to pay attention to it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Something not good is happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: My antennas went up and March, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: I went, mmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's something, something feels really, really off right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the comparison point has always been probably world, 2017 through April 2018 with a split.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's sort of 11 month run to me is the weakest point in the promotion's history.
[SPEAKER_03]: You could maybe point to some things in 2006 or 2009.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's the period that I always associate.
[SPEAKER_03]: The absolute worst of drag aid with.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the in-ring quality really suffered during that point.
[SPEAKER_03]: The booking was at best a lot of the time boring.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then outright bad depending on what your level of the heel involvement, as a heel unit involvement was at that point.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't feel like it was as incompetent as it is right now though.
[SPEAKER_03]: There is just pro wrestling one of one things not happening on these shows.
[SPEAKER_03]: that I can't get over.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't believe that the finish to the second night in Fukuoka's main event, which was Kakuta and Ishen versus Cielo and Kaze.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't believe that that match ended with Kakuta pinning Cielo and not either Cielo or Kaze pinning Ishen.
[SPEAKER_03]: Does that not feel like the biggest layup in the world?
[SPEAKER_03]: How do you pin one of the challengers?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it completely makes both of them look like that they aren't at the level.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the entire match was essentially Kakura eating up the challengers for like, uh, about a good portion of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then KZ and CLO, not being on the same page and not having the chemistry of being not on the same page just not having chemistry.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just couldn't have the chemistry.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's funny, it's funny you say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was a bad main event.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was two and three quarter stars on this and that's me being charitable.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I actually liked the match from a raw and ring perspective more than you did.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought the work was better than that.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's I'm glad you said that though, because I felt watching it like the C. L. O. K. Z.
[SPEAKER_03]: Friendly fire.
[SPEAKER_03]: Organs like she made spots.
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't earned.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was weird how flat all of it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was like a moment where KZ shoves off CLO to do a tiger twist and CLO kind of just stumbles around and just throws up his hands and goes to the outside it's like what are we doing here like it is completely like the one thing I could say is that CLO being larger and being able to fly around.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a dynamic that has not been tapped into enough with Kakuta.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's that aspect that's dangling in that case.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am mining to pull out that one positive with this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just thought that this is just a complete,
[SPEAKER_00]: dredge and it was after a four a four way that essentially existed just to do another store to do another manure and Yoshioka bailing each other out, but they're not uniting like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're teasing that we're edging this out another week, we'll with this instead of going like, okay, Yoshioka Minov versus Team 204, like that's we need to get to that point.
[SPEAKER_00]: point and they just refused to.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was one of my least favorite.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the evening session.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was worse than the afternoon and after noon, at least had a great main event.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the great, but that's the only thing, like from a matchwork standpoint, that I feel even remotely comfortable saying, yeah, you might want to check that out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is what the caveat of might.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I want to go back in time,
[SPEAKER_03]: Continue breaking down or was a pretty abysmal weekend for the company.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I was thinking about this about an hour before we started recording tonight, where if you look at your title situations and dragon gate, you can't really look at anything else because there's no other programs going on, which is a huge issue in this company is that these, I mean, these undercarriage right now,
[SPEAKER_03]: are so dry, especially when Comor is down to the match, because at least if you give me Comor an opening match, I'm in, because I think it works as ass-off on every show.
[SPEAKER_00]: That guy's awesome is way too good to be in his position that he's kind of has to be in, because the suit you Gucci and Oshma aren't being promoted up.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: like Kamora really feels like that he should be in the mix at like this and he was so much fun like working with C. L.O.O.
[SPEAKER_00]: and Yoshioka in that opening and then on this the second night like the one thing that was interesting happening in that match was okay we got a lot of Kamora there and and all that it made me want to do was say like
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Camora's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's almost coming up to his one-year anniversary.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is he not in a unit and we're not moving along here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't promote people up through a dojo because your issues don't just exist in your booking office.
[SPEAKER_00]: It exists up and down the entire day of your promotion, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Go play late.
[SPEAKER_03]: So...
[SPEAKER_03]: There's all these issues there, but when I look at the title situation, I go, okay, Kukuta, aligned in Gajadokuro, that's been going on for a year, that's well established.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a chance that he wrestles Kazy, who is this weird leader, who's not a leader of a unit that's existed for a long time, but there's also a chance that he wrestles LCLO who would be unafiliated going into Kobe world, which is it's odd,
[SPEAKER_03]: It's extremely odd to have a dreamgate challenger who's unafiliated going into Kobe world and then you look at the brave gate match and it's going to be an unafiliated Tanaka I guess it's unafiliated homari and then you know, we don't know what they're going to do with the triangle gate belts yet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, probably have fucking all Japan guys coming and win them or gakey or Gucci will win and pin everybody, but you look at the twin gate match
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would, I would presume, as I think you were, that is going to be Eshen and Cateau, versus Yoshioca and Manora, you know, Mike, I don't think we're getting some massive unit roll out in July for Yoshioca and Manora, which means they're going to go in on affiliated as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you're going, let's, let's say it's Kukuta versus Cielo, Cielo, Homare, Tanaka, Yoshioca and Manora
[SPEAKER_03]: without units.
[SPEAKER_03]: Think about how weird that is.
[SPEAKER_03]: I talk about the delicate balance of booking in this company all the time about how magnum Tokyo, being in two units that once in 2005, nearly throught the entire equilibrium of this company.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was something that dragged it where the booking has to be specific.
[SPEAKER_03]: We talked about it in 2019 when they put shoe skywalker and Ben K together as a tag team without a unit name, different than D courage.
[SPEAKER_03]: This was not Daya and Yoshioca as D courage as a tag team.
[SPEAKER_03]: This was shoe skywalker and Ben K are unafiliated friends that occasionally tagged together.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we talked about how weird that was and how it threw off the balance of this company.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you might have five guys.
[SPEAKER_03]: entitled matches on Kobe world that won't be able to wear a unit t-shirt to the ring.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, this is not when Lanzo used to say this is not your big brother's dragon gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is like
[SPEAKER_00]: The moral soul adjusting thing of like this is not what this promotion should be at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I clenched my fist with anger when you said that in 2021, I think God he's not watching now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to know what he would say.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because I've got his approach right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at least like looking in that overall situation like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hummari and Tanaka feel like such a clear direction that it seems like it almost be a war crime at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we weren't like basically, if not it after the Brave Gate match, then whatever, oh, they have a Kobe Samba Hall show that week too, that's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: If they're not at the at the Kobe symbol Hall show saying like all right, we're reeniting for a generation or whatever, then it's just like what are we doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we just tearing apart the fabric of what this promotion has been for the last twenty-nine years?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, Mike, I don't trust tomorrow to be involved with anything that guy hasn't won on TV since April
[SPEAKER_03]: She has no one a match on TV since he got his head shaved.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when I keep on talking about, I don't understand this character.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't understand why he's wrestling for the Brave Gate belt.
[SPEAKER_03]: Put Flood Meets up back in there, just give Flood Meets another shot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why is Hommara in that match?
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I'm with you on with that is, and it's even like you have full meat on these shows, the first night, full meat has to team a full to mo in a match that just was all crowd work.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then he gets into the natural vibes versus paradox, eight man tag.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that was fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the best thing on that show here.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: We all know that Fulmita being around for whatever reason makes the company feel a little better.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're not even using the guy at like his best right now and it feels like that, well, he could be in the triangle gate situation with Gucci and Aki or he could be doing something with Monte and just being kind of weirdly unafiliated once again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Here's what I want to do here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go back in time for a minute.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got I will talk we'll jump back to 2026 and we'll talk about sort of the three big story lines happening in the company right now and what went right which was very little and what went wrong with all of those but I want to go back in time.
[SPEAKER_03]: to July of 2025 and I want to look at that cork and card from July 3rd 2025.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to read you the full card.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can give me just any impression you have then.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I want to go name by name for the relevant guys on the roster.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we'll omit, you know, your BB hooks and your Don Fooji's in your automotive dragons, but for the relevant guys on the roster, you tell me and I'll go name by name with you if they're at a better spot.
[SPEAKER_03]: a worse spot or the same spot from a booking perspective, from a public perception perspective, from a career perspective, better worse than the same than they were at this time last year.
[SPEAKER_03]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We've done this before, we did this probably, I think we did this in 2024, and we were marveling in how many guys were in a better spot than they were in the summer of 2023.
[SPEAKER_03]: This will be a different exercise than that, but that, but that, but that card for a aggressive gate last year was Montaientanaka versus Flamitan U.T., as a 10-man tag with Cagataurus, Asumubibi, Hulk, Don Fujid, Altva, Dragon versus Dikiyoniguchi, Asaki mochizuki,
[SPEAKER_03]: Rita versus Ben Dito in a singles match, Casey and strong machine, J versus Kai and Madoka Kukuta.
[SPEAKER_03]: Ben K. Heo, Jackie Kame and Mochizuki Jr. versus Eshen Jason Lee, Coach Benora and Yoshiki Kato.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dragon kid in the rookie door versus Daya and Yoshiyoka, Yamato versus Honore and then your impromptu main event, Shun Skywalker versus Yamato.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that set up the Kobe Romain event for that year.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that was one year ago in Cork and Hall.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what this company was doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Real Yatenaka, better worse, or the same than this time last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would argue that Real Yatenaka will be one of the few people that will say better, like on a new, we can't debate this.
[SPEAKER_03]: The biggest victor of the last calendar year is Tenaka.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, like these the only person I would go to arrows up on, like it's not just that he's up good.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's up, but like two standard deviations of good like why aren't we,
[SPEAKER_03]: I've got to look at that card now.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're probably not going to get this in any former fashion, which is a bummer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Billy King Kid, where you took out Canary, amounts of food services, rogue nation, Goliath, Toro, and Yasutaka, Osura, I would really like to see that match.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would like to see Osura versus Hanaka.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would.
[SPEAKER_03]: Luis Montai.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, he's the exact same damn place he was in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe a little worse because they, yeah, team Mexico happening last year.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's where I landed is, I think Montes in a worse position because the passage of time with him is absolutely brutal.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, this guy won the final gate.
[SPEAKER_03]: He won the dream gate belt at final gate 2023.
[SPEAKER_03]: He lost it in June of 2024.
[SPEAKER_03]: Two years ago, Mike, that Ben K versus Montes match was two years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: What has he done?
[SPEAKER_03]: in the last two years.
[SPEAKER_03]: Big hug cratered in November of 2024.
[SPEAKER_03]: He did the Mexico versus Japan stuff, which I was the biggest fan of because I talked a lot last year about how this felt like a throw away gimmick.
[SPEAKER_03]: It felt like the type of thing that they did because they didn't have an idea for Monte, but those matches were so good that it reminded me how good Monte was and how good Flamita was and
[SPEAKER_03]: But now he doesn't have that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And now we're two years removed from him being a dreamgate champion and we're 18 months removed from him being in a unit.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think the public perception of Monte.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mike, this is a guy who you and I used to come on here and we used to go thank God that A, W, and W, don't pay attention to dragon gate because they would take D, Monte in a heartbeat and they would ruin him.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we're two years removed from that now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we've gone from the guy that was probably by consensus for Dragongate viewers.
[SPEAKER_00]: The most improved wrestler, not just in one year, but over a period of three years, each year, it would be like, oh, yeah, no Montez even better than he was than last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the most improved wrestler.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now he is
[SPEAKER_00]: a drift, uh, Ultimo likes working with them, so he's usually in or against Ultimo, but like that's not a future I would want to have if I was a dream, a former dream gate champion and someone that like monetize only like 30 and it feels like he's completely like shoveled down to the veterans and Ultimo and that's an awful place to be at least for your momentum and it, and it, and considering where he was, which was already kind of downcycled in 2025,
[SPEAKER_03]: I just have such a hard time believing that his career arc should be on the the latter half of it that we should be we should be on the down arrow with him because it's not like he's about wrestler whatever they give him something to do he still he's still the best based on wrestling.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's, he's amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's one of the great.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is one of the great big men in that wrestle, luchess style in the world that no one's heard of, and he's never been thoroughly like wasted for the last 24 months.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, let me refer you to that last 18 months, they big hugged just cratered with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That wasn't attempt for something, but at, but the point still says over the last two years, there's probably been no one who has dropped as much as Luis Monto.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, former Jimgate champion, if you turn on a drink, he'd show today you would have no idea that that was the case.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then it wasn't that long ago, that it wasn't like one of these brains from 20 years ago, that it was not, you know, he beats Skywalker and Kakuta in a three-way match, which I still, I was right on the money, that that was a fucking disaster, it was a terrible booking decision.
[SPEAKER_03]: They fucked everybody over on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: They rushed.
[SPEAKER_03]: to do Montavers's Skywalker at Bayside when I thought that should have been something that they were building to for Kobe World that year.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just bad battle the way around did it feel good in the moment only feels worse on hindsight.
[SPEAKER_03]: Flamita and UTI would have in the same spot.
[SPEAKER_03]: Will you agree there?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, UT, uh, I guess he was technically brave gay champion there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the slight arrow down with the butt.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, essentially he was everyone knew what to deal with that brave gay run.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's being handled well.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think we're like, oh, God, what are they doing?
[SPEAKER_03]: If I think he's he's earned a very respected position on the roster.
[SPEAKER_03]: He is a veteran presence.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have no issue with what they've done with you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's awesome that he's gotten the amount of brave gate matches.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's got it.
[SPEAKER_03]: He wanted he had the junior match.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's had the two to knock matches.
[SPEAKER_03]: But our public perception of you, he's not changing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just like when they do stuff with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and I would say that UT, if you're looking at like where he is within natural vibes even with like the younger guys kind of moving up that came in there like he's in a spot that I mean if we want to take it and stretch it out across UT's career UT's doing all right right now UT's in a much better spot than he was five or ten years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I completely agree with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dikkiyana Giuchi, I think we would both agree.
[SPEAKER_03]: Up, I would say second to Tanaka in terms of improvement over the last year.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now there are ceilings are dramatically different.
[SPEAKER_03]: But, you know, I always bang the drum on this guy, but I don't think a lot of people saw Dikkiyana Giuchi as...
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to the goober.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you were you were always in goober territory with him.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say in 2026 as what Mike we're halfway through the year, which is terrifying on a number of levels.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is Yarnick UGA top three dragon gate refsler this year?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say so.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a comic.
[SPEAKER_03]: Comey, Gucci.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, it would be hard for me to go after Kame, anyone other than Gucci, unless you want to do the joint Kame and Rita kind of in the same place together, you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I, I don't as I will explain to this exercise.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have them in different spots for this exercise, but Gucci, big one are there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Rita, I have him.
[SPEAKER_03]: in a better position than he was in last year.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he is now in the, like I kind of what you were just saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think last year of this time, it was coming on a different level than Rita.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think Rita has closed that gap with the work that he's done.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say no help to Drangate booking.
[SPEAKER_03]: I still think he's been handled horribly.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he has worked so hard and has done so much good work that now people see him on a different level than they did at this time last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I would agree with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think a level of credit should be also the fact that he kind of has been able to explore a lot more than just being the the smallest guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think working with Jackie has let him kind of flush it out like because just for you things that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think is more fun and drag-and-gate than when or in wrestling to be honest than when Rita decides that he wants to kind of bully someone around on the mat.
[SPEAKER_00]: And those were the kinds of things we weren't necessarily seeing like 2024 and into 2025.
[SPEAKER_00]: That first we got to see on the Bayesian shows, but he's been incorporating that more and I think that that's been a big positive for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll go up for Rita.
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, as I go in order of this card, we go to match four, and that would be your opinion on where Casey stands and who is possibly headlining Kobe World.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you think there?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the thing of KZ is he's attentive thumbs up up until a next Thursday when he loses to LCLO.
[SPEAKER_00]: If he loses LCLO then it's not an arrow up if he is the in the main event of Kobe World.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a clear arrow for him, but I feel like KZ's now kind of slotted in this kind of position and
[SPEAKER_00]: with natural vibes being what it is at this point until natural vibes ends, he's kind of going to be where he's at unless they decide for some reason that the rip cord is pulled and it's time for KZ time and I think that that will end the exact same way it's going to probably end with CL.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think I'm a tentative arrow up until
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's scary that the sky to me is in the exact same position he was in last year because it's not like we needed KZ for anything huge at this moment time and you know it felt like we were going to give strong machine J the reins and really let him go and be the leader of this unit and for whatever reason that has just not happened in the way that I think any of us thought
[SPEAKER_03]: that it would be, and if you go back and look at the Kobe World card last year, my juror without looking, you're what Casey did on Kobe World, because I had to look to us up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I never would have guessed this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was Casey like in a outsider's match?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, Tanahashi was the outsider last year at World.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was he like,
[SPEAKER_03]: No, that was two years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: God, that was fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was that four-way tag that I just, I don't know why it came up recently, but I was like, oh, that's, I was doing some, I think some comedy twin gate stuff, and I was reminded of how good that match was, because that was comedy and Monteté, challenging for those belts.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, last year.
[SPEAKER_03]: Kobe World, five-way guy or a TV title match to Kashi, Kai, Kezi, Masaki, Mochizuki, and Naruki Doi.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think Kezi is in the same spot that he was in the last year and he might be headlighting for the dreamgate belt.
[SPEAKER_03]: That should concern everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's, he's just so like to me, it's so hard slotted that like other than, and I've never necessarily, you know, seen it natively or heard about it natively, but like it feels like that he's like being teases anything to just like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that will shut people up if it case he has an opportunity to have made him at Kobe world and get another dream bait shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: When it just feels like it's throwing things at the wall at this point to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a question for you that I'm just now thinking about.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is probably the share thing that may, I mean, maybe.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe if I was good at my job, I would wait and we would just discuss this once we figured out the result of KZ versus Ciela, but we're in it now, and I think this is a more interesting discussion than any individual thing that happened on the Fukuoka show.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you think it is?
[SPEAKER_03]: detrimental to the health of dragon gate.
[SPEAKER_03]: If Casey, who for so long has been the guy that hasn't been good enough to win, and is looked at as the second of two wrestlers in his class with Yamato being the other one, and has been the guy that Shuna's already defeated, and Yamato's defeated multiple times, and has lost and lost and lost and lost and lost and lost and lost
[SPEAKER_03]: with the company and the precarious position that it's in.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that more of a feel good story for a dragon gate and KZ, or is it a cause of concern that this guy, who we all love, but has been portrayed and painted a certain way throughout his entire career is now the one atop the company, because I'm starting to worry that it might be the latter, that KZ winning the dream gate belt might actually be way more sad than it is satisfying.
[SPEAKER_00]: It, like, in a way, it feels like that it's been, it's a many factored kind of thing to me because outside of him stepping into the ring after Asuna Cielo did, there was like, no real impetus for him to make a dreamgate challenge whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And,
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a part of me and maybe I am giving Rio Saito too much credit in this instance and maybe I am not giving him enough credit in this instance.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that there is a part of me that goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: did he see what happened if Haroki go to and the fact that they were able to kind of spur on someone that would argue would be the KZ type in that promotion and actually have a somewhat of a positive run with the guy and hoping like maybe this is like the little kick in the pants that going like maybe if it's like KZ time then we saw with Haroki go to maybe that that can be a little bit of positive momentum there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it just feels like such a bad read of the situation that happened there before to emulate to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of the day, it makes me wonder, like, are we overthinking this and KZ is just the natural guy for that in a role to be fetus CLO?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is this kind of, as you're saying, like, is this like a attempt at something that comes off a little bit sad?
[SPEAKER_00]: because I don't see the logic and I don't think either way necessarily is a strong kind of thing because they're like, if Cielo, if they wanted Cielo to feel good going into Kobe World, he needs to be the shit out of Yoshiki Kato and cross that guy off the list and go, all right, I'm done with the spares here, I'm coming for the big bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wouldn't you feel a lot better about Cielo going into World if that's the route we went to to get there?
[SPEAKER_03]: Especially because I don't feel like CL versus Cato is strong enough to headline a big show for the dreamgate belt.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is the perfect stepping stone match, not the chapter two match.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, at least that's kind of the way that it just feels like why are we going to still have this thing dangling in a way.
[SPEAKER_00]: because like why not why why not clean this up have like CLO get that thing check that off.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't have the whole oh you escape the cage first.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you why should I concern myself with him like he needs to feel a little bit like a badass and he's not feeling like a badass.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then if you, let, I mean, let's say they are inspired by that go to reign, which after he beat Zack, he defended the building.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's Tana-Hashi and then Nagata.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then went, finally, Umano, Numen, Newer guys, and then back to Zack, Shingo, and then Losa to Zack.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were going to copy that blueprint you're talking about.
[SPEAKER_03]: what like a kz versus mochazuki, trim gate match and kz versus yamato, who by the way, some of the greatest dream gate matches in history, kz versus yamato kz versus mochazuki.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do not want to see that in 2026.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that is bad.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that is a horrible look for a dragon if you do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought it was, you know, I was less high on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Go to a rain than everybody else was, because I think for a lot of people was like, ah, wait, let's go our days of New Japan.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, brother, that was 10 years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: What do you do it now?
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think the case, I think the more I think about it, the more sad at this point in time.
[SPEAKER_03]: a kz dream gate run would be because the arrow is pointing down in so many ways that now would be it wouldn't be kz reaching the top of the super high mountain this you know mech of japanese wrestling the drink it has been he'd be it's like he would have reached the top of a much shorter mountain that is less of a triumph and more of just like oh okay I think that would be a really bad look for the company of kz one
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm with you on it, and it just kind of, I still just don't see it as like the this credible chip for CLO.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I mean, CLO's not ready for this spot.
[SPEAKER_03]: They haven't done anything to make me think that CLO is a main event or let alone a dreamgage champion.
[SPEAKER_03]: The crazy thing is, like, the booking of this streamgate scene, especially coming out of Fuqua, honest to God at the end of these two shows, I would maybe Kuku to should retain and co-bet.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's how bad this is, Ben.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just does not feel like how this company has been, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It really, like, I know I joke around it about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if it's a gas leak at the Dojo, right now, that they're just not checking on because it's just,
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it is that we're so in the weeds with us after so long case that like we have a sentiment of what feels like right and wrong and that and maybe we should not be feeling like a power that we should say that but like.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, if any promotion like AEW was looking at Wimbley Stadium or looking at their biggest show there for WrestleMania was a month away and that those promotions were at the position that Dragon Gate is in right now before their biggest show there, I feel like people
[SPEAKER_00]: because it is it is almost malicious here how it's being handled.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the weakest build a world I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I, I'm going to go back now and look at Kobe World 2006.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just curious to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, six had like, like, get the DK and, and Cecil moves off in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, uh, which felt like that's made of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So,
[SPEAKER_03]: So that has dose carous beefy whole kioshi versus to kagi muscle outlaws versus blood generation.
[SPEAKER_03]: So this is an interesting card because you with the very least, you get this big muscle outlaws versus blood generation match.
[SPEAKER_03]: Dr. Bustle Gamma, Masada Yoshino, Niyuki Tenazaki and the rookie doye versus
[SPEAKER_03]: Yoshi a versus shingo, which is a match I don't like at the very least had some intrigue of shingo coming back to Japan or shingo leaving for excursion right after that match.
[SPEAKER_03]: Third from the top, Tynru and Madden versus Misaki Mochizuki Minorsuzuki, a match that I like, but a match that is very divisive.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then your top two, Dreamgate match, Tsumu versus Dragon Kid, and Shima versus Magnitude Kichuwada, the no-ropes match.
[SPEAKER_03]: a great dreamgate match that I think had a pretty weak build and then she movers his magnitude, which felt
[SPEAKER_03]: you know, while it was the worst of of, uh, you know, if there's a nocheism, then there's sheemaism, and that was probably the worst of sheemaism, but a match that felt big.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's an undeniable, good match and a hot crowd.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you were a match that was built for what?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, over here at that point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yeah, because because magnitude comes in in June of 2005.
[SPEAKER_03]: So you were telling a 13 month long story and you get that muscle at loss versus blood generation match on the card at the very least.
[SPEAKER_03]: You might go, okay, well, it's not your motto versus shingo from 2016, it's not your motto versus shoon from last year, but you know what, that's an, that's an inexpensive dreamgate match.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would kill for an offensive on this year's Kobe world with any of the matches that we've got going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm offended by everything they've done.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's, you know, Kobe world 2006 is a weaker Kobe world shell.
[SPEAKER_03]: That at the very least is far less annoying than anything happening in 2026.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's befuddling man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, who was next on your stock up?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I still, I still want to go through some of these.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know this is taking a while, but I, I want to go through some of these because I want to throw the next day about you specifically a strong machine J year over year your thoughts Mike.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's down because how can you not be down, which is wild considering that he got knocked out at Kobe world last year in a no due match and like one of the more like devastatingly ways to get
[SPEAKER_00]: He's easily the least interesting person in the unit that he's supposed to be leading.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is completely kind of a drift.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know where you kind of book them.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't really get rid of the strong machine Jake Gimmett because then what do you do with the guy after he's on mass when there's like no real impetus for him to kind of unmasse.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's just down.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like even such to a point that's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Strong Machine J, turning on natural vibes, be something.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but he needs something, and it's just like, because the more people who get added into natural vibes and are showing up, the more you're kind of going,
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is this guy the leader?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is this guy front and center?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why did KZ do that?
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes it.
[SPEAKER_00]: If anything that this guy has cratered over the last three years as unit leader and why are we even like entertaining at this point?
[SPEAKER_00]: He needs some big change and I don't know if the big change is going to be the thing that has him even conclosed to any level of interest that he had in past
[SPEAKER_00]: that is completely just up a creek in it and just is feels just like lagging behind in a way that is feels almost terminal and in some fashions.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mike, think about strong machine jay going indigate of base side last year compared to now and that was last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh god, it is just remarkable like with it like how far down he has gotten like this.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you bring up a really interesting point that I'll relate to these Fukuoka shows.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll kind of tackle two birds with one stone here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Of, if, if strong machine J turning on natural vibes wouldn't mean anything, because I think the rosters at such a low point that I struggle to think of turns outside of Yoshioka and Tanaka or Tanaka and Yoshioka, I think that would get a response.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Kame on Rita or Rita on Kame would get a response.
[SPEAKER_03]: other than that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, been in here when Ben gets healthy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that would that would garner a pretty major reaction, but I bring this up because on the first week, we'll go show they did a singles match between manure and each and then I was kind of looking forward to.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I couldn't believe it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said this in the in the discord of the Dragon Age channel.
[SPEAKER_03]: The lack of heat for that match was not concerning.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was absolutely terrifying, no one cared.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was an a sound made in that match.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's one of those weird things with a menor story where I feel like on paper, they are doing the right thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: But when you go back,
[SPEAKER_03]: and you watch this match.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you haven't seen it, you've got to watch this.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a spot where Eshen goes to the top rope, he misses a frog splash, menor puts him in the crossface.
[SPEAKER_03]: no one makes a sound.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are no crowd calls.
[SPEAKER_03]: There is nothing.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is a silent crossface.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is eerie, the way that no one responds.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then Jason Lee comes in.
[SPEAKER_03]: He does the interference power he hits, but nor are the hell with the tray.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did like manure doing that to him with the four-way match on the evening show.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I actually, I thought that four-way match was the best thing on that show.
[SPEAKER_03]: When Jason comes in, there's no reaction.
[SPEAKER_03]: He does a weapon run in spot that does it even get polite booze.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's nothing.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is nothing whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so now we run a spot where Jason Lee turns like coach manure and I'm not even sure that matters.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not even sure they can capitalize on that now.
[SPEAKER_03]: That Asian versus manure match had such a terrifying lack of heat.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really can't believe it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's just like.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're doing the right thing in that program, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: If I beat, I go, okay, all right, I see what they're doing here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like that we're doing, but no, our versus Jason at Corken, no one cared.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was one of the crazier drinky things I've ever seen, just a lack of response to that match, given that it was menor and Ishen, and who has typically been the always reliable Jason lead to get some sort of reaction, got nothing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolute silence on that match.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and like,
[SPEAKER_00]: menorah during this face turn and like this the the footage that has may take both of them it's not like he has made himself a more interesting wrestler he almost has a case of the shoe where he does not feel like he's turning face at least with the way he's wrestling and that's I feel like it maybe it has a reminder of what just happened with it that's not that's
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I just go back to the fact that I feel like that they've, they did the exact same thing that they did at Shun's Homecoming Zoo and did it twice in the same day with this feud and like, why should, why should Hakata care when they know that it's, it's, it's menorah versus Eshen when they know that Jason Lee has been getting involved in everything for the last week and half.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, it's really hard to get invested into that even though like beat by beat other than they need to get this match announced for Kobe world and we need to see where this is going to go like we need to get to those kind of stuff is it just feels like you're spending wheels when you shouldn't be spending wheels at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I think one of my biggest down arrows and the better worst of the same game, I think one of my biggest down arrows is Eshen, and it's not necessarily his fault, because I think as a performer, I still think he's really strong.
[SPEAKER_03]: I voted him incredibly highly in 30 and 30.
[SPEAKER_03]: But he should was a guy that we were talking about last year is like, oh, well, you know, if shoot wins the dream gate belt at world, not knowing that cococho is going to win a dog.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, oh, we should get like a really big, shoot versus Asian dream gate match.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that doesn't, I mean, that doesn't feel right at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: This,
[SPEAKER_03]: This tag team with Kato, even though I like both of those guys individually, and I actually will get to Kato in a minute, but I have him as like an arrow up guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think it's done the many favors.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think Ishen and Kuku to have chemistry with one another, and I think the overall public perception of Ishen is so much lower than it was at this time last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think it's like booking too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think this is more booking than anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where it kind of comes to me is the team 204 is doing a lot more for a forecato than it is for Asian when the Asian has shown that he could be more and the situation in the overall just malaise within the heel side, he does not necessarily work in what they're
[SPEAKER_00]: like you kind of get to that big nebulous question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would have much rather, I understand what they're doing with Menorah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think this was the time to turn Eshen and I would have rather than done that than turn Menorah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm ready to cheat.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a little bit like the shoon thing where it's like I'm ready to cheer for this guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to like this guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me like Eshen.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're putting me in a position where I not only can't cheer for the guy, but I'm on interest and sing the guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's how bad
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I totally see your point.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, she could caught my would go arrow up though.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think at the very least, caught him show that he's a credible wrestler.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think a lot of that is just the fact that over the last 18 months.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has had the most like consistent health of his career.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's let him kind of get back to where he should have been in his progression and advanced forward.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's the thing, not only more acclimated with the idea of Conto, just as a presence on the roster, but also because of that, he's gotten better as a wrestler.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think he's taken a pretty major step up, so I like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: The only other arrow up guy that I have.
[SPEAKER_03]: Tanaka, Rita, Yana Guchi, Yoshiki Conto, the only other one I have is Hio.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think Hio has been absolutely brilliant.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that is what the caveat that I think Jackie Kame was already thought of as one of the best wrestlers in the world last year.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't think Kame's changed that.
[SPEAKER_03]: maybe some more people have come aboard, but comics largely the same.
[SPEAKER_03]: The people that loved in last year loved in the same amount this year.
[SPEAKER_03]: The only other guy on the roster that I'm like, wow, that guy is in a much better position this year than he was last year is heo.
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you look at that list, five only five guys, I think are in a better position than they were this year than they were this time last year.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's really a Tanaka, an undoubted success story.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's Rita in the sense of, I think he's even better than he was last year.
[SPEAKER_03]: Same thing with heo.
[SPEAKER_03]: Kato, we'll see what his ceiling is, and then Dakeyon Yuchi, that is terrifying.
[SPEAKER_03]: Those are the only five names I have in that list.
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you say Aakeez up?
[SPEAKER_03]: I, you know what, I would put Aki up.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was not on this card, so I didn't have him down, but I'll throw Aki in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was, he was an omission, just based on the fact that I was like, those July day, but you're right, Aki's up, Kamora hadn't debuted at this point in time, but I love Kamora.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you want to throw Cella when they're sure, but that's sort of a boot point.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just, it's very similar to 2018.
[SPEAKER_03]: where, and I had resisted this comparison for the longest time, but I would look at those cards in 2018, and my eyes would immediately dart to, okay, what is maximum doing on these shows?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yoshino, Doi, Jason, Ben, Shimazoo.
[SPEAKER_03]: What are they doing on this show because that will be really good?
[SPEAKER_03]: Anything else who knows?
[SPEAKER_03]: And now when these cards come out,
[SPEAKER_03]: It's what our common reach of doing, what's to knock a doing, and what's Gucci doing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if those guys are in lame duck masses, it's going to be a really bad show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, it's, and I think like when you compare that with, uh, uh, the Hakata shows the stuff like the love and peace versus natural vizotomico on the first night, you had a lot of those guys and on that situation and that was a good use of them and that felt good with those guys and then you can trust that with the evening night where Kame and and Menorra just was kind of a drift and everyone else is
[SPEAKER_00]: piece mailed about you get Rita teaming of junior juniors a guy that I know we didn't even like bring him up in a way but like he is a drift too so it's that that's not necessarily a great situation for either Rita or Cato and and this these two shows desperately needed role yet to not go on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: No it's crazy I mean the couple when I always gave the junior was from 2022 until
[SPEAKER_03]: because I think June of last year, that's when heo, uh, they had the heo controversial match where love and piece ended up forming.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would, and then the next 90 had the UT match, the UT bravegate match.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would say since then even though he was trying to get champion at one point, it's not like that rain was all that inspiring.
[SPEAKER_03]: They really haven't done anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: with Junior in the compliment I gave him 22 22 23 22 24 was there all he's so good they they're always doing something with him and as long as he's healthy he's in the mix and he's really interesting but Junior is a complete afterthought.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean Junior has nothing to sink his teeth into right now and it shows he's just he's just a guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: No it's one the more
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me throw three more names that you will be done with this, but I want to get your opinion on these specifically.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where do you rank Madoka Kuku to all of this?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know?
[SPEAKER_00]: This was Kakudas' chance to have a dream gate run that felt like that would have some care, would have some booking around it, and would have some build up for his challengers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he just didn't get that, and I don't know necessarily how much to blame him for that, but what I kid blame him for is that...
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that he in-ring has become kind of stale over the last nine months, and that's kind of becoming more of a drain on me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whereas I felt like I was a little bit more complimentary or more willing to give the run a shot last year after the shoot and match after the bank
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of then on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at this point, it's a negative title run.
[SPEAKER_00]: It hasn't done what I was hoping it to go out to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's still, I mean, objectively, he is the drinking k-champing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, it makes it a hard one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that like Kukuta is the hardest one I feel like so far for me just because if you look on paper, everything says arrow up.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you just look on paper, you're not seeing the full story through experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: And through experience, it would be an arrow down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess arrow in the middle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it was already getting pushed pretty hard, lush, lush July.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was, I think the way I can illustrate it is, you know, last year at World There was that no DQ match between Kukuta and Strung Machine J.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we were talking about how, you know, Kukuta turned heel at that cage match in May.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then from May through July, was just ripping through guys, especially in Corcoran.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that was really excited about that heel turn.
[SPEAKER_03]: This dream gate run has done permanent damage to him.
[SPEAKER_03]: It will define his career,
[SPEAKER_03]: But Kukuchin could go on to be a wrestling observer news that are Hall of Famer, and we would still go, yeah, but he had that dream gate run in 2025.
[SPEAKER_03]: Think about what that did.
[SPEAKER_03]: His career will never be the same because of the stream gate run, and it will never be the same in a worse way.
[SPEAKER_03]: The public perception of MS changed for the worse, and it will take him years to recover, and he might not ever fully recover from this.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that's an arrow down guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, I mean, like it really is like the the results don't tell the story with good could as year.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, not at all.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's one of those where you watch and you're engrossed at it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You see what's happening there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Mike, tell me as I around this out here, two more names.
[SPEAKER_03]: How many singles matches in Japan has your motto had this year?
[SPEAKER_02]: Jeez.
[SPEAKER_00]: Has he out any?
[SPEAKER_03]: He's had one, un-tellivized.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: January 24th, 2026, Yamato versus Giro Shambashi.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was the only thing we've gotten out of Yamato this year.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's a Giro match.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't believe that we're a year removed from one of the great dream gate runs in history.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he has done absolutely nothing this calendar year.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said at the time, you can go back and you can listen to the tape.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said they have something with Yamato and Gucci.
[SPEAKER_03]: They have special chemistry.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yamato brings something out of him, Gucci brings something out of him.
[SPEAKER_03]: They need to ride vibes versus paradox into Kobe world as a big featured match where you
[SPEAKER_03]: at Kobe World.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's Yamano, it's Kobe World.
[SPEAKER_03]: You have a special set of circumstances there where Yamano can win that match, but you have to have vibes, beat paradox, in every combination, until Yamano finds the right group of guys, and then Yamano has to get his revenge in July at Kobe World.
[SPEAKER_03]: And instead, vibes lost those belts to a Ryuku Dragon team that then vacated the titles, Yamato's nowhere to be found doing anything interesting,
[SPEAKER_03]: He hasn't done anything interesting except for these random one-off matches with Gucci that I mean, it's amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's just a complete afterthought.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's an arrow down guy just on the sense of booking malpractice.
[SPEAKER_03]: They thrown in the towel on your motto's career essentially.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's completely like it, I don't know anything, but it makes me wonder given the last couple years how happy a motto is with people in the company, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you tell me you would be a better gaze here, but it does seem like at least publicly your motto is often cited with management and not saying the younger wrestlers on the roster, which I think is a really interesting wrinkle there,
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he's, he's doing nothing.
[SPEAKER_03]: He, you know, dangerous gate last year was, was Dragon Kid Yamato and Komora versus Aoyagi in a way and you may aoyagi, and we talked about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You rocked with, oh, maybe there's something with Yamato and Komora, maybe they'll do something there.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then they abandoned that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then Komora's like, oh, maybe he's going to be in Saipatra.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, he's not okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then now Komora's just been completely fucked in the book.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why are you not going back to Yamato and Komora?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why can't you model do anything interesting?
[SPEAKER_03]: What is happening?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's like I would have circled, come more back around having to go through a full trial series against Cypattra as penance, and then he gets accepted in and said like all right, you took here alums, we see you as one of our own, come in, you're now the young guy in Paradox, and you would have basically been up up to the races, and you know, you wouldn't have to have Hulk, you know, be Hulk as much, you know, you could actually be like saving some of these guys
[SPEAKER_03]: if you don't want to run with this triangle gate stuff, which was handed you on a platter, you know, whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: Imagine Kobe world with a hyped Yamato versus Komora match as matched number five on an eight match show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, yeah, and especially Yamato tapping into the Yamato, like the bad mood Yamato stuff could be, you know, the highlight
[SPEAKER_03]: He can still go it's to I mean it might be a hell thing with him in the sense that he's really beat up, but I did you watch him in the 16 care at this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have not gotten around to that footage.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, your model versus the actual tisha from the opening night was awesome and if your model can do that in Germany, you can do that in Japan.
[SPEAKER_03]: So there's no excuse for this not to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved your model versus aggression more than you did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, Yamato clearly has it, like, honestly, if Orange Crush is doing this thing that seems like a great way to lose a whole lot of money real quick, why did you not bring Yamato in for the Gresham show after that, did you say show?
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what's happening.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm, I'm baffled by it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Last name I'll throw at you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I kind of like, and again, don't know anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't heard any new shoot news over the weeks, but you're have I.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like in a weird way like if we're putting that hat on, it feels like he's kind of getting punished by for skywalker leaving at a way with a way still in the bravegate match.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would write him, yeah, punish and work on eight man opening tag with fucking problem dragon, then do what they're doing to him now.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will continue to say this until it changes.
[SPEAKER_03]: I will say this every episode until it is not true.
[SPEAKER_03]: He has not one on TV.
[SPEAKER_03]: since April.
[SPEAKER_03]: He has not won a televised match since getting his head shaved in April.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he is wrestling for the Brave Gate belt at Co-A World.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I don't trust with how bad this company is right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: He might win for all we know in screw to knock on breaking the record.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't trust anything or any one at this point.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I do
[SPEAKER_03]: has not won a match on TV, since getting his head shaved in April, and I will continue to reiterate until it becomes clear to me that I do not understand what his character at this point in time is supposed to be.
[SPEAKER_03]: And if I was Reo Yatenaka, the man, not the wrestler, and I was thinking about the future of my career and the momentum that I have, I
[SPEAKER_03]: In Dragon Gate came to me and they said, Hey, we're going to put you in home, Marri and a unit together, I might go brother, that don't work for me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't want this anchor next to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: This guy who was ice fucking cold right now, who headline, Corganhol against your motto in a singles match last year.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think when that match was announced, I'd be cranking me if I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think our eyebrows were raised.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're like, Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, that's a big spot for home, right, but it wasn't like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh my god, what are they doing?
[SPEAKER_03]: This is insane.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was like, yeah, but I think he could rise to the occasion.
[SPEAKER_03]: Could he?
[SPEAKER_03]: And it was all right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And do you imagine how Mario had landing a cork and horseshoe right now?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like on the heels of like him winning Ray Day per a house.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was the looming shune kind of situation there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was completely deserved for the booking from the be there and just not a, it is not an ability that Rio Saito has anymore is to actually do that level care or whoever did that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm of the belief now that Rio Saito had someone bailing him out in the booking office frankly given what we've seen over the last seven months.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's insane.
[SPEAKER_03]: I really can't believe the malpractice that has happened with Humare, just in the last three months, just a complete character assassination of this guy in a way where I think he will be a future dreamgate champion.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think everything will turn out to be okay, but right now it does not feel good.
[SPEAKER_03]: It does not feel good at all to be a Humare fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, and it's, and it's perplexing seeing that he is someone still so young in his career have like such like, and be someone who have such clear upper trajectory up until April of this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: And,
[SPEAKER_00]: if you want to like even like put aside the whole side patrove at all it's still felt like that he was going to reach this high in his going like geez this guy's 21 he's already at this point imagine well when he's away from shune in the limiter or staking off and when and we've learned that when he's away from shune in the quote unquote limiter staking off you'll have great matches at a Kyoto show and then be booked to help.
[SPEAKER_03]: Terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely terrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, case, do we want to talk about something positive before we get out of here on this episode?
[SPEAKER_03]: Hit me with your Quico Saka pro thoughts.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have a ton of time, but I've got enough time to hear you talk about a Saka pro, which will war my cold dead heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, yeah, right, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want, like we let off talking about what is emo and not, then we had a shit sandwich.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have the other piece of bread here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like your Todd and school, like this is how you do compliments you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You sandwich criticism between compliments here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have a lot of compliments for a Saka pro,
[SPEAKER_00]: you sold me on the Osaka pro and let me tell you I watched the ultimate spider J-20th anniversary taco yaki kita uh 21st anniversary show that was I guess two weeks ago are there about uh from that's right yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: And let me tell you, I think do you want to hear like what my compass, at least for me, for like what watching the show was?
[SPEAKER_00]: It felt like when Chakara in 2007, like when I was like getting into like the endies and like being able to like go to endies and stuff like that, when when things weren't too comic booky and things were just
[SPEAKER_00]: Pleasant and it was just like you know like this is like a fun indie show that was like two and a half hours get the DVD Have a good time.
[SPEAKER_00]: See a lot of guys that I'd never saw before and then also like good to see younger wrestlers get developed and then one of the things that I really enjoyed and
[SPEAKER_00]: The deadlock period of deadlock per wrestling was like that it just had this very digestible show that was very low on the frills, but it was very like digestible wrestling for wrestling sake and it was just all kind of gear to kind of like that and I got to tell you this felt a lot more like comfort food,
[SPEAKER_00]: or last weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: I adored this show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was it like my life changing?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like is it going to like now have me like a case should we do more of soccer pro content on it?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, not really, but that's not what I want from this, but I really had a great time with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that the way that they kind of just bundle these shows and have like the full version where like you get like the entering promo with USJ and Taka Yaki Kita and Zeus bringing out flowers and like a nice like touching moment and then you get that video that tells you well it's going to be happening and who is in with what and.
[SPEAKER_00]: The roster they have, I know it's not a big roster, and I know that not everyone there is a permanent Osaka regular, but there's a lot of fun stuff there, the Azalea Taisho Hall is a great venue for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does have like the
[SPEAKER_00]: Delphan Arena, and I would get with the second arena's names kind of vibe to it, but a little bit bigger.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the work, I mean, you said that I should check out Aron Sato, and he is a lot of fun, especially for a guy of like working this style.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like he kind of reminded me in some ways, and it might just be because he did the BT bomb, like this, like of a young teahawk low, like,
[SPEAKER_03]: like that a tiger's mask being a net positive to promotion as a 50 year old it feels it feels alien to me to have someone like that around the case I think it was Allen that said the tiger's mask is one of like his top five workers of the year and I was like yeah that I mean I'm not that high on him but that's not crazy I understand where he's coming from
[SPEAKER_00]: And like it's wild to me like I was talking about Chakara for a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like USJ and Takoyaki Kita were guys that they that you kind of like were someone aware of because of the relationship that Quack had with Osaka pro like you would have to dusk and it up being like a full year key.
[SPEAKER_00]: Young Lions Cup winners, but like there was always like an unintercurrent in like these are like two guys that I Remember the Osaka Hurricane website and like the Gordy post, which did you ever see the Gordy post was that like after your era Your entering to pro wrestling with with DVDVR.
[SPEAKER_03]: I Don't I don't recall
[SPEAKER_00]: So, DV DVR, like back when that was an active forum, they would have it all separated.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was an Osaka pro thread that there was like a foreigner who lived in Osaka by the name of Gordi, who had posts like all of his going to the shows and was like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it was like 2000, it was like both through the era that Harada and Katoga, where they were there before they left.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it always felt like the most fun kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like characters like Takayaki Kita and USJ put pop up as young guys here and then going like dang 20 years into their career and I was no book on that main event.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was a lot of fun and especially the ability, especially for what feels like a territory to get the crowd so into all of it and the top or who broke bottom actually really rocked as a finish.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not see that coming.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was hell yeah on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I skipped over the comedy match because plus is hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't need to see the bodyguard doing comedy matches at this point in my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Vertex versus rogue nation, big on Mattifuda and Ocera took me like five minutes and going for me to realize that Suzuki is Oji Shiba.
[SPEAKER_00]: which was a funny thing for me, but I fun, fun trio's match will never hate sing Habu and I like show Mizuno in the open or I thought that I liked his kind of kick boy kind of things in Subasa and Mihara kind of working very grounded in the open.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm going to keep up on Osaka Pro now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I'm a convert.
[SPEAKER_03]: Good.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, whenever I make table talk about it, because I also really like it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think that show Mozuno kid is going to be special.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I have a lot invested in him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I would put stock in him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know about, like, Asakura in Toru of uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, well, case, that's going to do it for open the voice gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: This week, we will be back with open the voice gate after the July 2nd cork in that weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: That set of shows will be back with open the voice gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then so it will be taking a break next week in the feed.
[SPEAKER_00]: But case next time you hear from us, it's the big one.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is time for us on those days to talk about these days.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, uh, we we can't wait to get that recorded and you all will have that into your feeds around this time next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can follow us on social media at open voice gay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's both on Twitter and on blue sky cases under score in your case on Twitter.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm at Fuji.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, uh, there's the voices of wrestling discord, which is another great place to keep up with the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where the
[SPEAKER_00]: Dragon Gate Channel is as well as the open-the-voice gate channel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did a post earlier this week about the situation with Mitch and Oku Pro video footage in those days, there will be more updates with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Going on, but that's where we post our production notes, footage lists, basically anything about the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of the best place to kind of keep current on that there on the voices wrestling discord, but that's going to do it for this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: We will be back with you with those days next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take care everyone.