WEBVTT 00:04.115 --> 00:14.547 [SPEAKER_00]: God is not too small as to handle your honest prayers, and so confession isn't always here's the bad things I've done. 00:15.127 --> 00:17.570 [SPEAKER_00]: Confessions just telling God the truth. 00:27.543 --> 00:37.892 [SPEAKER_00]: Brooke Ledbetter has been at the church for quite a long time and we've just got to watch Jesus do some pretty significant and beautiful things in our life. 00:38.172 --> 00:39.413 [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna talk about some of those things. 00:39.433 --> 00:42.296 [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna talk about some anxiety stuff and and God 00:42.756 --> 00:48.360 [SPEAKER_00]: delivering her in a significant way from those things and then becoming an author and a writer. 00:48.560 --> 01:01.790 [SPEAKER_00]: And like I said, it just for me, and you hear me say this all the time, but to be at the village now for almost 23 years, to be embedded with this group of people, to watch the slow burn of sanctification. 01:02.430 --> 01:21.288 [SPEAKER_00]: And then to be able to kind of lay that up for you guys to kind of look at and marvel and see yourself in and grow in confidence of is really the reason why we do this is to kind of fuel your own sanctification your own pursuit of Jesus through the highs and lows of following after him and so Brooke 01:21.752 --> 01:37.477 [SPEAKER_00]: hey what's up not much thanks for having me no man I was I was pumped that was pumped so I would love for you to you know this is always that weird moment like I know so much sure and nobody watching does right and so catch us up a little bit 01:39.038 --> 01:49.842 [SPEAKER_00]: raised in a Christian home, kind of relationship with Jesus, just give us kind of a bit of a background before we dive into kind of the swing down anxiety and all that. 01:49.862 --> 01:51.562 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, all the fun stuff like that. 01:51.582 --> 02:01.465 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so yeah, I grew up in a Christian home was, you know, in church every Sunday, Wednesday, Sunday night, you know, Baptist business meeting. 02:01.806 --> 02:02.786 [SPEAKER_00]: Back in the day Sunday, Wednesday, 02:06.367 --> 02:07.968 [SPEAKER_02]: just in a home that loved the Lord. 02:08.208 --> 02:22.118 [SPEAKER_02]: I got saved when I was gosh, like four or five, have just the Vegas memory of like being in my brother's room and praying with my mom, but the Lord just captured me early and has just been a continual slow burn of sanctification. 02:22.138 --> 02:24.379 [SPEAKER_02]: I like that, that is very accurate. 02:24.459 --> 02:32.725 [SPEAKER_02]: But so yeah, just grew up loving him and went to Dallas Baptist Christian University and just continued to grow in my relationship with him. 02:34.706 --> 02:35.347 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's really it. 02:35.367 --> 02:38.609 [SPEAKER_02]: But you know, it's not super exciting, but I'm thankful. 02:38.729 --> 02:39.970 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a beautiful story. 02:40.150 --> 02:40.390 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 02:40.551 --> 02:41.131 [SPEAKER_00]: Beautiful story. 02:41.171 --> 02:41.872 [SPEAKER_00]: So winded. 02:43.045 --> 02:49.751 [SPEAKER_00]: When did you first start noticing kind of the anxiety fear? 02:49.831 --> 02:53.033 [SPEAKER_00]: When did those things start kind of flaring up in your heart? 02:53.614 --> 02:53.774 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 02:54.054 --> 02:56.616 [SPEAKER_02]: So for me, anxiety really came to play later. 02:56.696 --> 03:01.500 [SPEAKER_02]: Depression was, you know, the first friend that visited. 03:01.560 --> 03:04.783 [SPEAKER_02]: And I noticed that really, 03:06.144 --> 03:11.408 [SPEAKER_02]: like I grew up with a family member who really struggled with it and so I was familiar but just was like, that's not me. 03:11.448 --> 03:16.351 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't struggle with that and then I went through a really hard breakup. 03:16.491 --> 03:25.798 [SPEAKER_02]: My senior year of college and I could not recover and so that was really when I first started noticing it and it was just one of those things where I was like, I mean, 03:26.478 --> 03:32.619 [SPEAKER_02]: It's normal to be sad and grieve this, like I thought I was going to marry this guy and didn't, you know, but it was like, it just wouldn't go away. 03:32.699 --> 03:36.020 [SPEAKER_02]: And then even after I got over him, that depression really stayed and lingered. 03:36.120 --> 03:44.782 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was in my early 20s when I really was like, oh, this is bigger than just I'm sad and creeping bring up. 03:44.882 --> 03:46.323 [SPEAKER_02]: So that was really when I started noticing it. 03:46.343 --> 03:53.704 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, um, anxiety kind of came to play a little later, um, I like graduated within my first job. 03:53.744 --> 03:56.025 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just noticed all the sudden I was very, um, 03:57.266 --> 04:14.422 [SPEAKER_02]: nervous to be like around people, still showing anxiety had really started flaring up, I felt like I was like over thinking every single thing I said all the time, and I just knew that wasn't normal of me historically, and so that was that was kind of the second wave of it. 04:14.963 --> 04:16.884 [SPEAKER_00]: How was like... 04:17.674 --> 04:25.141 [SPEAKER_00]: So you got this terrible break up, you rightly mourn that and then it lingered. 04:25.181 --> 04:26.923 [SPEAKER_00]: How was that manifesting itself? 04:27.740 --> 04:47.390 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, a lot of self, like negative self talk primarily and just feeling like excessively lonely and like I was not worth a lot worthlessness that that is how it was manifesting was a lot of people don't really 04:48.430 --> 04:49.271 [SPEAKER_02]: want to be around me. 04:49.511 --> 04:56.215 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to be around me and then when it was really bad in seasons, it would be hard for me to get out of bed. 04:56.255 --> 05:01.598 [SPEAKER_02]: It's hard like little things would just take me out for the whole day and it just felt like 05:02.928 --> 05:07.632 [SPEAKER_02]: the level of suffering I'm experiencing doesn't match what's actually going on up there. 05:07.893 --> 05:08.073 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 05:08.153 --> 05:08.493 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 05:08.854 --> 05:18.843 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you're mid 20s when the anxiety still there and is it is it still like is it a mixture of anxiety and depression is it. 05:19.309 --> 05:39.547 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was definitely make sure it was always more the depression than the anxiety the anxiety came into play again with like social situations and I'm an extrovert so I was super confused with my life or I wanted to be around people but I also was just anxious and couldn't really function well in those environments. 05:39.868 --> 05:41.149 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I remember googling, 05:46.294 --> 05:53.003 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think the anxiety really flared up a lot as my depression ranged kind of a peak of 05:55.629 --> 05:58.051 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like suicidal ideation, things like that. 05:58.291 --> 06:01.793 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was also in a job that I loved, like loved, loved. 06:02.293 --> 06:04.635 [SPEAKER_02]: But I had wrapped my whole identity into it. 06:04.655 --> 06:06.736 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that was where I was putting all of my energy. 06:06.836 --> 06:13.280 [SPEAKER_02]: And so as that became more of my identity, of course anything that happened there would throw me off. 06:13.440 --> 06:19.944 [SPEAKER_02]: And so my anxiety got worse around that too, because I was looking to this thing that was a good thing at first, to really 06:21.325 --> 06:22.165 [SPEAKER_02]: Give me that value. 06:22.185 --> 06:23.506 [SPEAKER_02]: Give me that worth and tell me who I was. 06:23.666 --> 06:24.026 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 06:24.046 --> 06:25.566 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it can't do that. 06:26.266 --> 06:31.587 [SPEAKER_00]: And so are you looping Christian friends into all this? 06:31.627 --> 06:36.929 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, are you going to like are you trying to find a psychiatrist or a therapist? 06:37.029 --> 06:39.589 [SPEAKER_00]: Are you going to the Lord with this? 06:39.609 --> 06:41.910 [SPEAKER_00]: I'd love to hear about maybe your relationship with the Lord. 06:42.030 --> 06:42.250 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah 06:44.171 --> 06:46.412 [SPEAKER_00]: as you're kind of widening these waves. 06:46.452 --> 06:48.032 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, no, that's a great question. 06:48.112 --> 07:02.579 [SPEAKER_02]: So I, yes to all of those, how I really clung to him and fought in the beginning was just going to the word and trying to find what was true and really like repeats that over myself. 07:03.139 --> 07:07.461 [SPEAKER_02]: When I didn't have the energy even to do that, I would just play worship music over myself all the time. 07:12.383 --> 07:13.964 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because I just needed it. 07:14.044 --> 07:15.686 [SPEAKER_02]: And so those were those were big things. 07:15.726 --> 07:32.778 [SPEAKER_02]: But I was looping in friends, especially, you know, after I was out of college and realized like, oh, this isn't just about this breakup, I started looping in my couple close friends and just letting them know I was struggling my home group at the time would pray over me like every encounter. 07:33.778 --> 07:45.687 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and so yeah, I was, I was letting people in, um, and when it was, when it was at, it's, like, worst, there were days where I would, um, reach out to friends and just say, like, hey, can you text me tomorrow and make sure that I get out of bed? 07:45.787 --> 07:50.890 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I, like, I wasn't worried I was going to do anything, but I just couldn't get out of bed. 07:51.010 --> 07:57.475 [SPEAKER_02]: And so even just having someone that I knew was going to text me in the morning and be like, hey, you up, like, yeah, was the help I needed. 07:57.595 --> 07:59.756 [SPEAKER_02]: So it really came to a place of, 08:00.817 --> 08:05.059 [SPEAKER_02]: being okay asking for help and and letting other people in so they could pray with before me. 08:05.559 --> 08:08.120 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm guessing you're living alone during all this. 08:08.640 --> 08:08.840 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 08:08.980 --> 08:10.521 [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's an excellent question. 08:10.941 --> 08:23.886 [SPEAKER_02]: So at that point I was living with my parents okay, they're great and wonderful but it was just a level of vulnerability I didn't yeah go there with them but my friends yeah I had them reach out. 08:24.007 --> 08:24.247 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 08:24.507 --> 08:27.388 [SPEAKER_00]: Were they able to pick up on something's not right with our daughter? 08:28.379 --> 08:29.941 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, for sure. 08:30.041 --> 08:44.301 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and they were super concerned rightfully so, but yeah, I just, I had just had a easier time being vulnerable with like peers and friends, and so yeah. 08:45.302 --> 08:45.822 [SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense. 08:45.982 --> 08:46.202 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 08:46.242 --> 08:50.723 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's, it's also probably pretty typical of action too, you know. 08:51.063 --> 08:51.303 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 08:51.343 --> 08:58.965 [SPEAKER_02]: I think there was a level of shame that I was fighting to, and at that point I was 28, 29. 08:58.985 --> 09:01.825 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to move back into my parents' house at that age. 09:01.905 --> 09:06.006 [SPEAKER_02]: And that was right as I was about to like leave that job for a time. 09:06.206 --> 09:09.326 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I just, there was a lot of shame of like having to move back in. 09:09.366 --> 09:10.287 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm moving backwards. 09:10.347 --> 09:11.587 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it was, yeah. 09:12.987 --> 09:16.389 [SPEAKER_02]: I, my mom would have loved for me a token, I don't know. 09:16.469 --> 09:17.029 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 09:17.049 --> 09:17.269 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 09:17.429 --> 09:18.810 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 09:19.070 --> 09:21.832 [SPEAKER_02]: I just, yeah, wasn't comfortable enough yet to do so. 09:22.032 --> 09:22.312 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 09:22.712 --> 09:23.172 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 09:23.473 --> 09:31.517 [SPEAKER_02]: And the last thing I'll say to you is I did have a, I knew that I needed to seek out counseling, and I couldn't afford it. 09:31.937 --> 09:33.158 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I had, um, 09:33.938 --> 09:37.739 [SPEAKER_02]: a friend reach out to the church and it wound up being summer. 09:37.759 --> 09:39.379 [SPEAKER_02]: I had not met her at that point. 09:39.939 --> 09:43.000 [SPEAKER_02]: And just say, like, hey, my friend is really struggling. 09:43.020 --> 09:44.620 [SPEAKER_02]: Need some help a forwarding counseling. 09:44.640 --> 09:45.540 [SPEAKER_02]: Can we do anything? 09:45.620 --> 09:52.141 [SPEAKER_02]: And the church graciously provided three sessions for me with the woman who became my regular counselor. 09:52.161 --> 09:54.902 [SPEAKER_02]: She's fantastic, just anointed at what she does. 09:55.162 --> 09:59.463 [SPEAKER_02]: And that was really the start of the turnaround. 09:59.763 --> 09:59.943 [SPEAKER_02]: So. 10:00.343 --> 10:00.844 [SPEAKER_02]: So good. 10:00.864 --> 10:03.386 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's talk a little bit about that turnaround. 10:03.486 --> 10:06.428 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, talk talk to us about. 10:06.548 --> 10:09.631 [SPEAKER_00]: So you you start going to see this counselor. 10:10.511 --> 10:14.334 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, you're she now you've got a guide. 10:15.415 --> 10:18.878 [SPEAKER_00]: And how does it kind of start pulling you out? 10:18.978 --> 10:20.399 [SPEAKER_00]: Like are you just able to spot it? 10:20.459 --> 10:23.942 [SPEAKER_00]: What tools is she giving you to kind of combat? 10:24.233 --> 10:36.596 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, um, at first, I think it was just having a place even to just say everything without the pressure of needing my friends to carry that burden for me. 10:36.616 --> 10:47.199 [SPEAKER_02]: There is something that's you can unburden yourself with a counselor with a little less, um, responsibility feeling of, well, now I'm trauma dumping on them and they're going to carry it because they love me. 10:47.279 --> 10:50.940 [SPEAKER_02]: Or as a counselor, your trust is trained to do that in a place where they 10:51.420 --> 10:53.621 [SPEAKER_02]: know what to do with, you know, everything you're giving them. 10:54.082 --> 10:59.505 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was a safe place to just be as chaoticly messy as I needed to be at the time. 10:59.525 --> 11:10.792 [SPEAKER_02]: And then she's a believer, she's actually a member and just really wonderful at helping me figure out tools like replacing the, like, lies. 11:10.812 --> 11:13.214 [SPEAKER_02]: I kept telling myself with truths and scripture. 11:14.034 --> 11:21.537 [SPEAKER_02]: teaching me how to pay attention and embody like the emotions that I needed to let go of instead of just trying to shove them down or like push them off. 11:22.558 --> 11:33.283 [SPEAKER_02]: So she gave me a lot of tools like that and she very patiently waited for me to ask about eventually getting on medication which I which I have been on for seasons and it's been super helpful. 11:33.363 --> 11:33.703 [SPEAKER_02]: She didn't 11:34.243 --> 11:38.868 [SPEAKER_02]: immediately rushed me to that conclusion, but when I asked she was like, I was waiting for you to get there on your own. 11:39.248 --> 11:41.710 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it would be helpful for me. 11:41.730 --> 11:43.332 [SPEAKER_02]: It was incredibly helpful. 11:43.352 --> 11:54.522 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, she's she's just, I could rave about her forever, but she is uniquely gifted at the role Goddess Playster in and in a way that's truly, 11:55.583 --> 12:17.281 [SPEAKER_02]: When you meet people who are doing exactly what the woman's designed and so I can't even articulate all the ways that she's helped But she's wonderful and and was really pivotal in me helping helping me realize A that I needed that help and be helping me get to a place where I could let go of Ultimately the job which it was was kind of the catalyst to when the Lord lifted me out of that season so 12:18.422 --> 12:22.866 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so you talked a little bit about, you know, you didn't want to trim a dump on your friends. 12:22.886 --> 12:23.166 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 12:23.206 --> 12:25.488 [SPEAKER_01]: So the counselor was a great place for that. 12:25.688 --> 12:25.908 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 12:26.048 --> 12:32.774 [SPEAKER_01]: But I imagine since the topic of your book is closer than a brother that you did branch out at some point. 12:32.814 --> 12:33.154 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 12:33.334 --> 12:36.156 [SPEAKER_02]: To your friends, what did that support look like? 12:36.236 --> 12:40.760 [SPEAKER_01]: What did it require of you to find the support or to ask for it? 12:40.940 --> 12:44.002 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it just looked different. 12:44.022 --> 12:49.164 [SPEAKER_02]: So having my friend reach out to the church, like just asking her like, I feel really awkward doing that. 12:49.845 --> 12:51.185 [SPEAKER_02]: But I need someone to do it for me. 12:51.245 --> 12:56.008 [SPEAKER_02]: And just asking her to do that, asking friends to text me in the morning. 12:56.368 --> 13:02.171 [SPEAKER_02]: I had another friend who let me just lay on her couch one day and just like we on her couch. 13:02.671 --> 13:03.992 [SPEAKER_02]: And so really it was just 13:05.307 --> 13:16.954 [SPEAKER_02]: letting myself be messy in front of people and and I you know I think we'll get into this but there is this sense of I don't want to burden other people and you feel like such a burden when you're in those faces. 13:18.615 --> 13:19.816 [SPEAKER_02]: And I've been in them. 13:19.936 --> 13:26.961 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been on the other side of them with friends mind who have struggled and man if I can just encourage anyone who isn't that space it's. 13:27.761 --> 13:40.250 [SPEAKER_02]: it's a joy when you are friends with someone when you love someone to help them carry that burden and it's really hard to see that in the moment, but I just had to get to a place where for me it was like I have no choice. 13:40.410 --> 13:42.251 [SPEAKER_02]: I need to let people in or I'm not going to make it. 13:43.392 --> 13:54.305 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's so healing to let in a safe place with people that you've built trust with to be so vulnerable and them not be not safe. 13:54.666 --> 13:55.427 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think so. 13:55.667 --> 13:55.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 13:55.907 --> 14:00.433 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead they're like, lay on my couch and like be snoddy and inhale. 14:00.453 --> 14:00.553 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 14:01.414 --> 14:03.475 [SPEAKER_01]: how that heals a lot of places. 14:03.495 --> 14:14.982 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's not just the counseling, which is so good or just the medicine, but also just that community that helped heal you, that God leads to heal you. 14:15.202 --> 14:15.322 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 14:15.342 --> 14:28.509 [SPEAKER_02]: When I talk about my home group praying over me every month, my friends praying over me all the time, there was a host of people that the Lord brought it to my life that I'm so thankful for and recognized, like how much they did for me in that season. 14:28.609 --> 14:30.030 [SPEAKER_02]: Even things that I don't know, 14:30.690 --> 14:34.191 [SPEAKER_02]: the prayers, the when I'm not in the room that they prayed, things like that. 14:34.391 --> 14:34.612 [SPEAKER_02]: So. 14:35.992 --> 14:45.375 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I've learned this in 2009 when I got sick, but it at least it started forming in my head at that time. 14:45.415 --> 14:53.558 [SPEAKER_00]: I started experiencing it that I think one of the primary ways we experience the love of God tangibly is through the saints. 14:53.778 --> 14:54.539 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely. 14:54.879 --> 14:56.219 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's why confession so 14:59.421 --> 15:02.983 [SPEAKER_00]: intimate connection with other believers as friends is so important. 15:03.203 --> 15:03.644 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 15:03.664 --> 15:18.574 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I mean, you know, right, yeah, but that was like I just remember in oh nine, you know, you got two years to live, two to three years to live and I'm spiraling and I know I theologically know the Lord loves me. 15:18.594 --> 15:20.215 [SPEAKER_00]: I believe it in my heart. 15:20.915 --> 15:36.301 [SPEAKER_00]: and the way I was experiencing his love in that season was like Matt Carter and Darren Patrick Hoppin on a plane and flying just to come see me and hug me and like, you know, my guys coming over and just be in with me driving me down to radiation. 15:36.321 --> 15:47.745 [SPEAKER_00]: It was just like that was like the tangible presence and love of God made manifest in the saints, which which makes me lament 15:50.726 --> 15:55.070 [SPEAKER_00]: the disconnectedness of so many believers and that really foolish. 15:55.090 --> 16:00.454 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to even use the word demonic idea that you can just love Jesus by yourself and don't need the church. 16:00.474 --> 16:06.319 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need other strong believers that are committed to a place and a people with you. 16:07.120 --> 16:07.860 [SPEAKER_00]: And so talk a little 16:12.033 --> 16:18.577 [SPEAKER_00]: And in some ways, the deliverance kind of becomes the message here in closer than a brother. 16:18.997 --> 16:24.021 [SPEAKER_02]: The richest seasons of my face have been through his people. 16:24.421 --> 16:33.747 [SPEAKER_02]: And when I think about the seasons of my life, they're all marked by the friendships and the kingdom of God in the people of God that he placed around me at the time. 16:33.847 --> 16:40.311 [SPEAKER_02]: And so for me, that moment of deliverance of the Lord literally lifting me out of depression in a moment. 16:42.412 --> 16:57.641 [SPEAKER_02]: happened at a moment encounter surrounded by believers who are praying over me in that actual moment and it's beautiful And I've had like seasons of struggles since then, but that is the time I can point to and say that's the turning point when you started to You kind of take us to that moment. 16:57.701 --> 17:08.588 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we yeah, we take us to that encounter and tell yeah Encounters like a prayer meeting pretty much a meeting that we get our church Where we get to practice our gifts, but anyway, we have like set that moment 17:08.948 --> 17:17.358 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we came to encounter my home group would come and sit together every time and they knew my struggle. 17:17.398 --> 17:20.121 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm not good at hiding my emotions. 17:20.221 --> 17:21.682 [SPEAKER_02]: So part of it is just an inevitability, but 17:28.750 --> 17:32.592 [SPEAKER_02]: But I had gone into that one, and I was just so exhausted. 17:32.712 --> 17:37.814 [SPEAKER_02]: I had just finally had my last date, my job was devastated. 17:37.874 --> 17:43.257 [SPEAKER_02]: I loved it, but I knew the Lord had asked me to give it up, and went into encounter. 17:44.558 --> 17:47.780 [SPEAKER_02]: really just sat there during worship begging the Lord for a break. 17:47.960 --> 18:04.988 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I just need a minute to not feel this level of weight on me and my people prayed over me and I'm not sure what moment it happened during encounter but all I know is I walked in feeling that way and when I left we're talking about dinner plants and I just realized like, oh, I actually want to go. 18:06.169 --> 18:09.351 [SPEAKER_02]: And I, you know, don't feel like I just want to go home and hide my bed. 18:09.391 --> 18:11.193 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like excited to be with my people. 18:11.673 --> 18:12.554 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, well, that's weird. 18:12.574 --> 18:13.375 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's just tonight. 18:13.435 --> 18:16.337 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the next day I woke up, just like full of joy. 18:16.357 --> 18:17.798 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was crazy. 18:17.918 --> 18:23.162 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that truly was a profound moment for me and my faith. 18:23.603 --> 18:28.887 [SPEAKER_02]: And I just don't think it would have happened without the people who carried me to that point and prayed over me in that moment. 18:29.147 --> 18:34.350 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, I mean, it would have got us sovereign, but that's how he did it. 18:34.390 --> 18:35.110 [SPEAKER_02]: That's how he used. 18:35.290 --> 18:36.951 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, super thankful. 18:37.911 --> 18:49.597 [SPEAKER_02]: And then, yeah, especially, I will say as a single in the church, and adult single friendships are, like, how I interact with the family of God and how I find my place. 18:49.637 --> 18:50.917 [SPEAKER_02]: And the family of God in a lot of ways. 18:51.438 --> 18:53.739 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, it's been, 18:54.499 --> 19:04.742 [SPEAKER_02]: pivotal for me in feeling a place of belonging and experiencing the love of God, experiencing the friendship of Jesus through friendship with his people, right? 19:04.863 --> 19:13.585 [SPEAKER_02]: And so yeah, I think that's truly the message becomes the, I forgot what you said, the story. 19:15.346 --> 19:24.076 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just, his people, they carried me, like, sometimes physically have carried me and have continued to be there and celebrate the wins. 19:24.196 --> 19:25.838 [SPEAKER_02]: And, and I get to do the same for them. 19:25.898 --> 19:33.787 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's just this joy of being part of a family, especially as someone who doesn't have my own nuclear nuclear family as an adult. 19:34.288 --> 19:34.508 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 19:34.808 --> 19:37.130 [SPEAKER_00]: of that. 19:38.471 --> 19:52.741 [SPEAKER_00]: Are there like daily or weekly kind of rhythms or habits that you've picked up on this journey that help kind of keep you grounded knowing that that that's there and you can 19:55.178 --> 19:56.179 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, absolutely. 19:56.279 --> 19:57.501 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, talking about that. 19:57.921 --> 20:10.917 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, well, you know, I had said I've, I've had season towards reared a TED again and, um, I, uh, was in counseling regularly for, um, probably four or five years of just. 20:11.718 --> 20:23.470 [SPEAKER_02]: going every other week and just like checking in and and really going through that whole journey with her and there were seasons where she was like, I'm seeing it again, like might want to let your people in on this. 20:24.250 --> 20:28.875 [SPEAKER_02]: But we I reach a place, you know, where I'm like, I don't think I need this this level of 20:29.275 --> 20:32.298 [SPEAKER_02]: care anymore, but I do need to stay connected with my people. 20:32.338 --> 20:37.323 [SPEAKER_02]: And so for me, it really is connection to my people, connection to the Word of God. 20:37.443 --> 20:44.229 [SPEAKER_02]: So if I find myself in a season of struggling, I'll really turn to the Psalms and try to find one that's 20:45.210 --> 20:47.914 [SPEAKER_02]: speaks to whatever emotion I'm experiencing at the time. 20:47.974 --> 20:52.659 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm 34 is a big one that I go to even Psalm 27. 20:52.679 --> 20:55.002 [SPEAKER_02]: I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. 20:55.042 --> 21:01.851 [SPEAKER_02]: I just will cling to that and almost say it as like a active determination like I will see this. 21:04.694 --> 21:10.762 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, clinging to things like that, and then, yeah, just, I don't do well in isolation. 21:10.822 --> 21:15.649 [SPEAKER_02]: So if I feel myself starting to isolate, that's when I'll intentionally let someone in on him. 21:15.849 --> 21:16.510 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm struggling. 21:19.553 --> 21:29.161 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to keep harping on it and being a broken record, but the Lord Chule is giving people who even in their seasons of, I mean, they're drowning, and they'll still reach out and say, like, hey, how are you? 21:29.321 --> 21:30.401 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I've talked a lot. 21:30.421 --> 21:31.282 [SPEAKER_02]: How are you this week? 21:31.342 --> 21:33.704 [SPEAKER_02]: I want to make sure that I know how you're doing too. 21:34.805 --> 21:41.850 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to talk a little bit about this, experientially, like having conversations, whether it's singles in the church or even 21:47.178 --> 21:52.541 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if people just like the idea of friendship, but don't know how to cultivate it. 21:52.741 --> 21:53.682 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 21:53.882 --> 21:55.503 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if they're just lazy about it. 21:55.523 --> 22:16.095 [SPEAKER_00]: They just want the benefits of sewing and sacrificing to build those relationships, or they don't know how, or, but I think, so, I mean, I was just with a group of guys, just about two hours from here, and we were talking about this idea of brotherhood and man, so many of them were like, 22:17.320 --> 22:18.561 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, how do you do that? 22:18.581 --> 22:19.161 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 22:19.361 --> 22:28.945 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I watch you man, I see with Josh and Trevor and your guys that, you know, been with you for decades and your closeness and like, how did that happen? 22:28.965 --> 22:29.065 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 22:29.706 --> 22:34.608 [SPEAKER_00]: So for people that are watching and they, I know that this is like, God, 22:35.308 --> 22:36.309 [SPEAKER_00]: built us for this. 22:36.489 --> 22:37.289 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 22:37.549 --> 22:52.436 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I know the human heart's hungry for it, but speed, pace, how we do life in the West, big backyards, really small frontyards, privacy fences, YouTube before asking a neighbor for help. 22:53.617 --> 22:54.557 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a real thing. 22:54.617 --> 22:54.918 [SPEAKER_00]: It is. 22:54.958 --> 22:59.520 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, when I was growing up, if my daddy needed help for some, there was a friend, 23:04.125 --> 23:15.739 [SPEAKER_00]: Google it and get on YouTube and figure that, which there's some cool about that, but it comes at an expensive, I know my neighbors, I know their names, I know who they are, they know me, they know who I am, or even in the church world, where 23:16.595 --> 23:34.028 [SPEAKER_00]: what like this community God's called us into, it's so easy to just surface level how you doing I'm fine and never, I mean, spend a decade in a church and never develop the kind of relationships that God's called us to when we're talking about biblical friendship. 23:34.408 --> 23:37.150 [SPEAKER_00]: So how would you encourage, like how do you cultivate that? 23:37.931 --> 23:40.573 [SPEAKER_02]: It's work and I do think there is a level of, 23:41.722 --> 23:43.824 [SPEAKER_02]: people feel like it should be easy, friendship should be easy. 23:44.064 --> 23:59.018 [SPEAKER_02]: And there is a level of chemistry and things like that where it can start easy, but inevitably you're going to butt heads with people and you're going to have arguments and people are going to call you out on your stuff and like the things that we need to get to that level of depth. 23:59.338 --> 24:05.503 [SPEAKER_02]: and to be sanctified by relationships is a little bit of friction and that's uncomfortable. 24:05.703 --> 24:08.605 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think people want it to be comfortable. 24:09.086 --> 24:17.893 [SPEAKER_02]: There's this idea to protecting my piece and you know this is going to cost too much, but love is costly. 24:18.393 --> 24:23.877 [SPEAKER_02]: And friendship is costly and so I think the idea of it should just be easy if it's right. 24:24.838 --> 24:43.652 [SPEAKER_02]: doesn't really hold water and so there's there's that it's necessary to really dig in with people and you can't be best friends with everybody, but to find those people who are going to stick with you and I think, you know, sometimes you think it's it's one person and it winds up being somebody from left field, but. 24:45.673 --> 24:57.596 [SPEAKER_02]: really taking the time and letting it take time to build that vulnerability that depth, not being quick to offense, think that's really hard to you. 24:58.496 --> 25:07.298 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think you have to evaluate if it's hard for you to make friends or if it feels like you just don't have a lot of close friends or you have friends and they change every couple of years. 25:07.358 --> 25:12.519 [SPEAKER_02]: I think there's something to examine of, it may just be seasons and it may just be, you know, 25:16.161 --> 25:25.671 [SPEAKER_02]: proximity, things like that, or it may be something where you're not digging very deep or you're not letting people get deep with you, and I'm definitely done that. 25:25.891 --> 25:35.061 [SPEAKER_02]: It's really easy to just go where it's fun and once things get hard to dip and run, but we'll never have the level of depth or intimacy. 25:36.877 --> 25:39.078 [SPEAKER_02]: that really is life to us if we don't dig in. 25:39.438 --> 25:39.638 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 25:40.259 --> 25:47.822 [SPEAKER_01]: I had a friend say just recently, you know, it's not a matter of if but when you're going to have conflict in your friendship relationship. 25:47.862 --> 25:48.102 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:48.502 --> 25:52.524 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was some advice you got from her mom and I was like, your mom's brilliant because it's true. 25:52.664 --> 25:56.426 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I think even the conflict shows where you stand with one another. 25:56.446 --> 25:56.546 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 25:56.986 --> 26:00.650 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, are you willing to hear me out? 26:00.710 --> 26:05.014 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you willing to also repair any kind of rep sure? 26:05.595 --> 26:09.218 [SPEAKER_01]: And then there's a vulnerable act of trusting them again. 26:09.819 --> 26:15.625 [SPEAKER_01]: Building back the trust, or maybe the trust never really is lost, but there's like that. 26:16.345 --> 26:29.134 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this is new, you know, but just like you said not being easily offended and being gracious But they're being some reciprocity and yeah, yeah, absolutely. 26:29.154 --> 26:32.416 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a huge piece If you are always the one 26:33.297 --> 26:41.059 [SPEAKER_02]: bringing something or, you know, being the gracious one or doing all the work to make the friendship work, it's not going to last. 26:41.739 --> 26:46.541 [SPEAKER_02]: At least not in a way that feels both of you, but yeah, that's very true. 26:46.601 --> 26:51.622 [SPEAKER_00]: I think experientially it's that moment of friction that 26:53.202 --> 26:57.787 [SPEAKER_00]: leads to the kind of vulnerability that you can really start building up. 26:58.507 --> 27:14.062 [SPEAKER_00]: And so in that moment of testing where there is a fence that you have the opportunity to just shove that and create some distance or move towards the person go, hey, I need to 27:14.843 --> 27:30.056 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I just need to have a conversation with you about this like let me tell you the story I'm telling myself right now when that happened this and and then if there's reciprocity in that friction oh my gosh, I didn't mean that this is what I was going and now. 27:30.497 --> 27:34.280 [SPEAKER_00]: Now what just happened is we just moved closer to each other. 27:34.400 --> 27:48.712 [SPEAKER_00]: And now there's a new level of vulnerability and trust that if the person offended, just berries it or brushes it off, well, the next time it happens again, this person's not even aware, but there was a fence coming out building. 27:49.773 --> 27:58.621 [SPEAKER_00]: And now the friendship strained in a way that it never needed to be strained, if you could have just moved towards the person for repair at first blush. 27:59.301 --> 28:16.146 [SPEAKER_00]: And so my closest friends are guys that we've done that cycle in 20 years, thousand times, where hey, that for me, because of kind of how I'm wired, that's how that hits me. 28:16.866 --> 28:18.446 [SPEAKER_00]: And now I've got the opportunity to be like, well, 28:24.368 --> 28:26.449 [SPEAKER_00]: which then does what it moves us closer to what. 28:26.469 --> 28:26.749 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 28:26.889 --> 28:27.130 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 28:27.670 --> 28:32.893 [SPEAKER_00]: So that when I'm struggling then this is a trustworthy brother like I know he can hold it. 28:33.413 --> 28:37.275 [SPEAKER_00]: He can hold it because we've already done this and he's held something to a lesser degree. 28:37.295 --> 28:39.297 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm confident that he can hold this. 28:39.937 --> 28:40.818 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he holds that. 28:41.158 --> 28:55.090 [SPEAKER_00]: And now we're on the path to deep intimate connection and friendship and without that, without that moment of friction, that gives us the opportunity to be vulnerable and to build trust. 28:55.570 --> 28:58.112 [SPEAKER_00]: Then I think dudes are always sitting around talking about hunting. 28:59.193 --> 29:05.879 [SPEAKER_00]: Cowboys would ball and kids sports when God has so much more for us than that in regards to 29:07.531 --> 29:07.731 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 29:07.811 --> 29:08.051 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 29:08.392 --> 29:29.969 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's an excellent point too because that's the other side of vulnerability of that hey this hit me this way and I was that person who would bury it for the longest time because I didn't want to cause problems and I wanted to be easy going and I was a people pleaser and all these things and then I'm walking around wounded but I'm also not telling them that and so you know these huge blowups happen that could have just been hey this this. 29:30.609 --> 29:32.772 [SPEAKER_02]: Hit me this way, can we work through it? 29:33.072 --> 29:38.237 [SPEAKER_02]: And I had friends where that was what destroyed the relationship. 29:38.277 --> 29:44.504 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I had other friends where when I finally did, I got the, well, this is just how I am, like, we're not. 29:44.564 --> 29:46.226 [SPEAKER_02]: And so you do kind of figure out, 29:47.437 --> 29:50.298 [SPEAKER_02]: who your people are and so you're compatible with things like that. 29:50.338 --> 29:52.839 [SPEAKER_02]: And that is like, it's weird to use the word compatible. 29:52.919 --> 29:55.840 [SPEAKER_02]: But when you're talking about friendship, there is a level that's necessary. 29:55.860 --> 29:58.281 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's no question, there's a question for sure. 29:58.381 --> 30:05.984 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think without moving towards the friction, you're just setting yourself up for a resentment. 30:06.224 --> 30:06.704 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 30:06.724 --> 30:07.625 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to surprise you. 30:07.705 --> 30:10.626 [SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, it's not fair to the other person. 30:10.666 --> 30:12.747 [SPEAKER_00]: No, because a lot of times, they have no idea. 30:13.407 --> 30:14.848 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they're acting selfish. 30:16.661 --> 30:18.445 [SPEAKER_00]: they didn't know you you read it that way. 30:18.626 --> 30:19.267 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 30:19.608 --> 30:22.535 [SPEAKER_00]: And so by not loving them enough to just go hey. 30:23.539 --> 30:46.987 [SPEAKER_02]: like that we need I need to say something about that yeah yeah I saw this I mean it was on Instagram but I saw this video this guy was talking about it like um when someone boons you in relationship but you don't tell them that you kind of you're creating a roadmap on how to love you but you're not giving them the map so then you're asking them to just like figure it out without giving them any 30:48.628 --> 30:49.250 [SPEAKER_02]: That's really fair. 30:49.290 --> 30:51.617 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we don't even know ourselves well enough to be in the tree. 30:51.658 --> 30:51.938 [SPEAKER_02]: So true. 30:51.958 --> 30:53.724 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have to be in the tree. 30:53.744 --> 30:54.065 [SPEAKER_00]: That's true. 30:55.710 --> 31:00.831 [SPEAKER_00]: So you've got these new rhythms where if it starts to flare, you know, okay, I need to move towards my people. 31:01.271 --> 31:01.891 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not one to go. 31:01.931 --> 31:04.091 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just, I'm not one to engage. 31:04.131 --> 31:06.572 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not one to so let me loop somebody in pretty quickly. 31:08.732 --> 31:22.474 [SPEAKER_00]: As you kind of wrote this book, and it's born, I think the reason I love it, having known you is it's born of this journey of that's not just glitter and sunshine and rainbows. 31:25.755 --> 31:35.311 [SPEAKER_00]: like you can have this, you're writing it from a place of pain that you want for others the good gift that God gave to you. 31:35.731 --> 31:37.855 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you talk a little bit about how the 31:40.799 --> 31:43.220 [SPEAKER_00]: the suffering you endured kind of created the heart. 31:43.240 --> 31:50.183 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's a weird thing, I just went from, you know, depression, anxiety to let me write a book on connection. 31:50.323 --> 31:51.204 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 31:51.544 --> 31:53.945 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's definitely not the book I thought I was going to write. 31:54.245 --> 32:05.810 [SPEAKER_02]: I was prepared to write a book on suffering and depression and I was thinking about that and it's like the Lord just kind of whispered, what if you thought about friendship and 32:08.871 --> 32:12.194 [SPEAKER_02]: how that direction changed, but then the more I wrote it, the more realizing. 32:14.116 --> 32:19.621 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, how deeply we all need it, how much I want to see people flourish and thrive in deep friendships. 32:20.061 --> 32:26.346 [SPEAKER_02]: And the lack of resources we had, especially at the time, I feel like there's more now, but coming out of COVID. 32:27.427 --> 32:47.127 [SPEAKER_02]: When everyone is super isolated and everything's online all of our relationships are at our fingertips and also farther away from us than they've ever been and so Really just all of those things kind of came together and all right How do I articulate this thing that truly I don't feel like I you know 32:48.208 --> 32:50.869 [SPEAKER_02]: started out with the plan of this is how I'm going to develop these friendships. 32:51.009 --> 32:53.230 [SPEAKER_02]: I just have learned through living life. 32:53.490 --> 33:02.753 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it was a process of looking back and examining what what I've done, what the Lord has done, but also pressing in and asking him like, what do I still need to do? 33:02.833 --> 33:09.415 [SPEAKER_02]: And what do other people still need to do to really develop these friendships and find a lot of healing there? 33:09.895 --> 33:12.816 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't know if that answers your question, but that's kind of how that 33:15.597 --> 33:18.660 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is always fun for me when I'm writing. 33:18.780 --> 33:26.946 [SPEAKER_00]: Was there something that as you were writing kind of surprised you or shocked you to be like, oh my gosh, yeah, that's how I got here. 33:27.127 --> 33:28.187 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's how that worked. 33:28.227 --> 33:31.890 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, um, there were several things. 33:32.331 --> 33:37.535 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think one, uh, the second or third chapter is about friendship with Jesus. 33:38.116 --> 33:43.220 [SPEAKER_02]: And I grew up with, you know, the silly t-shirt slogans like Jesus is my homeboy and all this 33:45.922 --> 33:49.584 [SPEAKER_02]: But it was just this idea of like, okay, it's not that, but he is my friend. 33:49.624 --> 33:53.607 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Jesus is the friend of sinners, the friendship of the Lord is for those who fear him. 33:53.627 --> 33:58.090 [SPEAKER_02]: So there's all these verses about truly how the Lord is a friend to us. 33:58.150 --> 34:02.053 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I started really sitting with that and asking him, you know, what does that mean? 34:02.073 --> 34:02.894 [SPEAKER_02]: What does that look like? 34:03.274 --> 34:07.417 [SPEAKER_02]: Is you're not there physically to pop over to Madewell with me? 34:09.118 --> 34:12.541 [SPEAKER_01]: But he is, but he would be more, yeah, he would be even more present. 34:12.581 --> 34:24.370 [SPEAKER_02]: And so this idea, and this is something actually that I started doing when I was in counseling was I would take these sad days really intentionally and turn my phone off, do all these things. 34:24.710 --> 34:27.732 [SPEAKER_02]: But I would just ask the Lord at the beginning of the day, like, hey, come with me. 34:27.872 --> 34:36.479 [SPEAKER_02]: Like wherever I go, I would like try a new restaurant that I've been wanting to try and things that normally I wouldn't have enjoyed doing alone because I've enjoyed doing things with people. 34:36.499 --> 34:36.619 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 34:37.259 --> 35:02.468 [SPEAKER_02]: But I just asked the Lord to come along with me and that was such a sweet season and I didn't even realize how that was forming me until I sat down to look back at it and it was right against so that was a big one and just seeing him I think that helped me experience his love in a more like heart soul level to look back and see oh like you are my friends like you are my father you are my saver your my friend also so 35:03.428 --> 35:08.069 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it was a gust and is where I read this, he would write about withness. 35:08.949 --> 35:09.929 [SPEAKER_00]: I just loved that word. 35:09.969 --> 35:10.890 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, yes. 35:10.970 --> 35:15.250 [SPEAKER_00]: This idea that, like, I'm not going to work for Jesus. 35:15.290 --> 35:17.751 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to live for Jesus. 35:17.791 --> 35:19.651 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually living with him. 35:19.711 --> 35:20.091 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 35:20.271 --> 35:22.112 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm actually working with him. 35:22.632 --> 35:26.233 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that idea, been such a significant marker in my life. 35:26.273 --> 35:28.093 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't want to, I want to. 35:28.513 --> 35:35.279 [SPEAKER_00]: And this become like a prayer in transition throughout my day, like I don't want to move this prayer time. 35:35.979 --> 35:37.160 [SPEAKER_00]: Now let me go get to work. 35:37.240 --> 35:39.442 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to come with you. 35:39.462 --> 35:40.603 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to go with you. 35:40.963 --> 35:44.907 [SPEAKER_00]: And I honestly think this is what Jesus is saying in the great commission. 35:45.507 --> 35:47.769 [SPEAKER_00]: like, low I am with you always, even at the end of the age. 35:47.789 --> 35:49.711 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like, hey, I'm going to save. 35:50.051 --> 35:50.712 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to come? 35:51.072 --> 35:51.392 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 35:51.592 --> 35:53.114 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to see can save the lost. 35:53.194 --> 35:54.795 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love for you to come with me in this. 35:55.355 --> 36:02.081 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just think that's such a revolutionary idea for Christians to realize that 36:03.942 --> 36:16.106 [SPEAKER_00]: He does want to be with you and all that he's calling you to do, he's going to do with you if you'll just stay with him and that's John 15, right? 36:16.646 --> 36:18.486 [SPEAKER_00]: A bite in me, remain in me. 36:19.066 --> 36:20.007 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't leave. 36:20.607 --> 36:22.747 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't move away from me to accomplish something. 36:22.967 --> 36:23.227 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 36:23.288 --> 36:24.528 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me go with you. 36:25.528 --> 36:27.969 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, that's what you're describing is, 36:29.079 --> 36:36.941 [SPEAKER_00]: Like some of my favorite times of the years, like I get out to our river cabin by myself and that's my witness, like river replenishment of that. 36:37.681 --> 36:50.304 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I've gone, I mean, I'm gonna, year I am again, you know, coming back in exhausted because I'm doing stuff on my own strength, I'm forgetting that like even if it's something silly, you wanna go do that with me. 36:50.624 --> 36:51.344 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 36:51.564 --> 36:55.805 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm in the habit of connecting, praising, 36:59.847 --> 37:06.914 [SPEAKER_00]: And then going off to do what's nice, and it just so slow to learn that better now than a bin. 37:07.154 --> 37:09.116 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess that's how sanctification works, right? 37:09.156 --> 37:13.621 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, that idea of witness, and I think huge for not only, 37:15.723 --> 37:21.248 [SPEAKER_00]: kind of the arch type of the friendships he's leading us into, to experience in the physical. 37:22.269 --> 37:33.420 [SPEAKER_00]: But just how the relationship with God actually works, to stay connected to, to remain in, that he'll go with, even something like going to a restaurant. 37:33.460 --> 37:35.482 [SPEAKER_00]: Don't always have to be super spiritual. 37:35.542 --> 37:35.922 [SPEAKER_00]: It's okay. 37:35.942 --> 37:37.363 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to go eat at this place. 37:37.383 --> 37:37.924 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to come? 37:38.164 --> 37:44.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I'd love for you to come with me Jesus or I'm gonna go see this movie or going to the shooting range or I'm going to train you to you. 37:44.126 --> 37:45.786 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to like come with me. 37:45.866 --> 37:51.047 [SPEAKER_00]: I want you with me in this like something saying that to Jesus. 37:51.807 --> 37:54.128 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it is a powerful prayer. 37:54.428 --> 37:54.648 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 37:54.808 --> 38:00.009 [SPEAKER_00]: And his receptivity to that prayer experientially for me has been really powerful. 38:00.269 --> 38:00.390 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 38:00.410 --> 38:01.410 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been really powerful. 38:01.430 --> 38:03.390 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm glad I'm glad you shared that. 38:03.410 --> 38:05.091 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's super helpful. 38:08.301 --> 38:21.325 [SPEAKER_00]: How has that idea of witness, that idea of friendship with Jesus, has that been a significant tool in the kind of ongoing spats with depression and anxiety? 38:21.785 --> 38:32.109 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because the inner voice when you're struggling with depression, at least for me, manifest itself in a lot of self accusation, I mean, I'm sure too, it's the enemy. 38:32.169 --> 38:35.290 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like just a lot of lies, a lot of, and so when I, 38:36.170 --> 38:38.771 [SPEAKER_02]: Remember, okay, Jesus is my friend. 38:38.951 --> 38:40.272 [SPEAKER_02]: He's also speaking to me. 38:40.312 --> 38:41.652 [SPEAKER_02]: How do I hear his voice? 38:42.193 --> 38:46.474 [SPEAKER_02]: And to recognize that friends aren't the ones sitting there going like, being your terrible. 38:46.534 --> 38:47.355 [SPEAKER_02]: Just now out of it. 38:47.455 --> 38:47.975 [SPEAKER_02]: Kind of suck. 38:48.055 --> 38:49.135 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, literally. 38:49.976 --> 38:55.898 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it helps me truly differentiate his voice from a lot of the noise. 38:57.039 --> 38:59.680 [SPEAKER_02]: And then also just it helps me receive that because 39:00.720 --> 39:08.625 [SPEAKER_02]: If I think that I'm imagining that or I'm just trying to like fluff myself up, it's really easy, especially like growing up Baptist. 39:08.645 --> 39:13.447 [SPEAKER_02]: I was pretty legalistic, so it's really easy to like tamp myself back down and be like, no, you're terrible, like you. 39:14.908 --> 39:18.010 [SPEAKER_02]: And remember like, that's not how the Lord speaks to me. 39:18.250 --> 39:23.633 [SPEAKER_02]: And so if my friend was speaking to me that way, I probably would not stay friends with it. 39:23.833 --> 39:24.013 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 39:24.153 --> 39:26.757 [SPEAKER_02]: But if they were speaking to me and telling me like, hey, I love you. 39:26.777 --> 39:27.958 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you're wonderful. 39:27.999 --> 39:28.699 [SPEAKER_02]: Like all these things. 39:28.840 --> 39:31.203 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to tend to believe them. 39:31.643 --> 39:37.491 [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's it's helped me even just cut through the noise of depression anxiety and the lies that come with it. 39:37.932 --> 39:38.312 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 39:38.332 --> 39:38.673 [SPEAKER_00]: I love that. 39:38.953 --> 39:39.534 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 39:40.555 --> 39:52.479 [SPEAKER_00]: So we always come to this moment where I think there's probably two different kinds of people listening to this right now that I'd love for you to just kind of encourage and speak into. 39:53.339 --> 39:54.740 [SPEAKER_00]: The first would be those who 39:55.784 --> 40:01.968 [SPEAKER_00]: man, they have a real hunger for the kind of friendship you're talking about and they've been just really hard-pressed to find it. 40:03.589 --> 40:18.640 [SPEAKER_00]: I would love like what would you say to someone they're listening to this, they're in their car, they feel lonely, maybe they go to church every week, maybe they've got kind of real surface level relationships, but they they find their heart longing for deeper connection and belonging. 40:18.640 --> 40:21.863 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how would you maybe encourage them, speak a life into them? 40:21.903 --> 40:30.290 [SPEAKER_00]: How can they take that angst that I think is probably a Holy Spirit rot and move into cultivating these kinds of friendships? 40:30.470 --> 40:31.671 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 40:31.951 --> 40:39.958 [SPEAKER_02]: Man, I think the first thing, I mean, you may be already doing this, but to just pray and genuinely ask him and beg for those friendships. 40:41.058 --> 40:42.459 [SPEAKER_02]: And then keep your eyes open. 40:42.479 --> 40:53.446 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they may come from places you're not expecting your neighbor who you might need to ask for help instead of googling how to do something or getting involved in your church or your community in some way. 40:53.466 --> 41:01.951 [SPEAKER_02]: So where are the places where you're already interacting with people and pay attention to those that it feels like there's that spark of chemistry and then just like 41:03.365 --> 41:08.831 [SPEAKER_02]: Foster that invite them to go to dinner invite them to go to the movie. 41:08.952 --> 41:20.085 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know just I think it's really hard to initiate especially when you are feeling lonely because it feels like you already feel like people don't want to be around me or people aren't choosing me and so then it's like kind of risky. 41:20.385 --> 41:29.933 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's risky, because you may ask and they say no, but a to not lose heart and just keep putting yourself out there, which is hard. 41:31.294 --> 41:37.059 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I think just create the opportunities and pay attention to who shows up. 41:37.840 --> 41:38.080 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 41:38.100 --> 41:38.881 [SPEAKER_01]: So I love that. 41:40.002 --> 41:44.826 [SPEAKER_00]: And then the second person and this happens anytime we talk about depression and anxiety. 41:47.610 --> 42:00.260 [SPEAKER_00]: in this moment that we're in, though it seems like things are trending differently, but for the last five years, I mean, this is the pandemic, depression, anxiety, isolation, despair, 42:04.310 --> 42:24.395 [SPEAKER_00]: somebody's listening to this right now because the spirit just put it like I said, put it on their feet or a well-meaning friend or loved one or parent said, hey, give this a listen whenever you get a chance because they're hoping to see their loved one or friend or family member pulled out of depression and anxiety. 42:24.815 --> 42:26.355 [SPEAKER_00]: So for somebody listening to this 42:29.496 --> 42:35.162 [SPEAKER_00]: they haven't left the bed maybe in a day or two or maybe they can't remember the last time. 42:35.482 --> 42:43.070 [SPEAKER_00]: They felt like doing anything other than just isolating, sleeping, shutting everything down. 42:43.490 --> 42:52.900 [SPEAKER_00]: What would you say to them to kind of buy the grace of God, provoke them to consider moving towards rather than surrendering to? 42:53.194 --> 42:54.534 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 42:55.174 --> 42:59.656 [SPEAKER_02]: Man, first of all, I'm sorry that you're experiencing that. 43:00.596 --> 43:01.756 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been there and it's hard. 43:02.196 --> 43:12.919 [SPEAKER_02]: And so my encouragement to you would be to just keep crying out to the Lord and if it's a day where you can't get out of bed, find a worship song that you like and just put it on repeat. 43:13.399 --> 43:21.701 [SPEAKER_02]: Whatever you can do to keep the truth in front of you, even if you feel like it's in front of you and you're not connecting with it and it doesn't feel like it's doing anything. 43:22.161 --> 43:22.501 [SPEAKER_02]: It is 43:23.321 --> 43:42.832 [SPEAKER_02]: like infiltrating your spirit in ways you don't even know and so um yeah just keep putting trees in front of you however you can whether that's through music or you know putting a note card above your bed so that's the first thing when you see in the morning just something so that you are constantly faced with what is most true um and if you can 43:43.893 --> 43:46.135 [SPEAKER_02]: turn off as much noise as possible. 43:46.795 --> 43:57.523 [SPEAKER_02]: I think part of this being a pandemic is everything is on fire and everyone is telling you everything is on fire and you have to care about everything being on fire and we're just not made for that. 43:58.663 --> 44:11.252 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I think there's a time to look at what's happening in the tears of the world and and bring those to the Lord, but I think especially if you find yourself in that place, shut all that down and just get with the Lord and get with 44:12.513 --> 44:20.323 [SPEAKER_02]: Any people that you, even if it's one person, that you think is safe for you, but find that person and let them know you're struggling and let them help. 44:20.664 --> 44:21.224 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 44:21.244 --> 44:21.565 [SPEAKER_00]: Love that. 44:21.685 --> 44:23.067 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that was good about it. 44:23.267 --> 44:27.292 [SPEAKER_00]: I love the idea of friendship and cultivating deep friendships. 44:27.372 --> 44:29.174 [SPEAKER_00]: I think if I think about 44:30.144 --> 44:54.670 [SPEAKER_00]: longevity and ministry if I think about surviving and coming out the other side of whether it be brain cancer or personal failures or difficult seasons with kids or spouse or look like the crew that I've invested in has been this grace of God to hold me to remind me of the gospel and to 44:56.310 --> 45:01.376 [SPEAKER_00]: group that God has used most frequently to pull me back to himself. 45:03.078 --> 45:06.562 [SPEAKER_00]: But those relationships have been cultivated. 45:07.423 --> 45:13.530 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think one of the things that can happen if you're not careful is you're waiting for someone to cultivate you. 45:14.731 --> 45:29.690 [SPEAKER_00]: And the way I would encourage you is what would it look like for you to own it in a way that you're going to be the one that invites a group over to your place on a random night to have dinner and to talk about. 45:30.351 --> 45:32.553 [SPEAKER_00]: Like things that I would describe as below the line. 45:33.494 --> 45:52.943 [SPEAKER_00]: like not necessarily the surface level, you know, hunting, fishing, sports, kids, but to just get a group together and spend an evening over dinner talking about each other's testimonies or significant things that Jesus did in your life, ways that he's healed you, things that he's brought you through. 45:52.963 --> 46:00.587 [SPEAKER_00]: I think you'll be amazed at how God begins to weave your heart with other believers when you hear about. 46:01.127 --> 46:02.428 [SPEAKER_00]: God's grace in their lives. 46:03.168 --> 46:05.210 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you're able to be like, oh my gosh, me too. 46:05.550 --> 46:11.894 [SPEAKER_00]: And now you've got these things in common that aren't like hobbies and personality types. 46:11.934 --> 46:16.417 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's this, I have this thing in common with you that that God's delivered us. 46:16.877 --> 46:23.839 [SPEAKER_00]: and moved in and through us in ways that really kind of connect us in a significant and spiritual way. 46:24.199 --> 46:25.639 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I want to encourage you that way. 46:26.360 --> 46:31.881 [SPEAKER_00]: And on depression and anxiety front, I'm so with 46:39.803 --> 46:52.089 [SPEAKER_00]: ask you to keep contending and to remind you that you have quite a few biblical friends that have been exactly where you are. 46:52.569 --> 46:53.950 [SPEAKER_00]: I think about King David. 46:54.070 --> 46:57.912 [SPEAKER_00]: I certainly think about Elijah that's just like I want to die. 46:58.892 --> 47:19.049 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to die, and the Lord came to Elijah and was like, you need to eat something, you need to sleep, get something to eat, and go to bed, and then when you wake up, I want to remind you of some things, and so I want to encourage you to take good care of yourself, to just maybe one little step, like get up and go for a walk, get outside, and then here's what I love about God. 47:20.070 --> 47:25.234 [SPEAKER_00]: God is not too small as to handle your honest prayers. 47:26.415 --> 47:30.539 [SPEAKER_00]: And so confession isn't always, here's the bad things I've done. 47:31.079 --> 47:33.561 [SPEAKER_00]: Confession is just telling God the truth. 47:34.282 --> 47:39.326 [SPEAKER_00]: And so what if you feel abandoned, if you feel all alone, if you feel forgotten, 47:39.746 --> 48:07.338 [SPEAKER_00]: What would it look like for you now like to turn this thing off and then have a real honest conversation with God that looks like some of the Psalms that looks like Jeremiah's prayer to God that looks like Moses's conversation with God that looks like Elijah's accusation against God and just say I want to believe you're good and you're faithful and you're kind and my heart right now can't see it will you come and minister to me? 48:08.158 --> 48:14.940 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you give me a breakthrough so that I can praise your name like I want to, but it just feels impossible for me right now. 48:14.960 --> 48:27.643 [SPEAKER_00]: I think part of the way we overcome is by having these honest conversations with God and not shrinking back and baptizing them in Christianes, but really moving towards the Lord in honest confession. 48:27.763 --> 48:36.945 [SPEAKER_00]: Brooklyn, love you, what a delight to watch God's work in and through you and what a great book to cultivate legitimate connection in friendships in Christ. 48:37.185 --> 48:37.485 [SPEAKER_00]: So thank 48:37.827 --> 48:38.152 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.