WEBVTT 00:28.545 --> 00:32.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to Murder in the Rain and our update for June of 2026. 00:33.287 --> 00:46.474 [SPEAKER_01]: Today we'll be talking about a phone scam, Ripley's believe it or not, some info about the show's schedule for the summer, updates to our street kids episode and a wildlife sanctuary, and of course, Josh's library corner and hot streamers. 00:46.534 --> 00:48.595 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's get to it! 00:50.483 --> 00:52.164 [SPEAKER_01]: I never answer my phone. 00:52.264 --> 00:53.045 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a zillineal. 00:53.145 --> 00:54.405 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't leave the ringer on. 00:54.926 --> 01:00.349 [SPEAKER_01]: However, back in March, I was waiting a call from a doctor regarding meds, so I did have my ringer on. 01:00.749 --> 01:07.393 [SPEAKER_01]: It was about 9 a.m. on a Saturday when my phone rang, and I had dosed off on the couch and was startled awake by the ringing. 01:08.033 --> 01:12.576 [SPEAKER_01]: It wasn't a known number, but it was local, so I just assumed it was that doctor. 01:13.056 --> 01:16.358 [SPEAKER_01]: Upon answering, I was met with a stern but calm voice. 01:16.978 --> 01:24.302 [SPEAKER_01]: This man claimed to be an officer with the Sheriff's Department, and I am so embarrassed to tell you the rest of the story, but that's how Scam's work, right? 01:24.562 --> 01:31.126 [SPEAKER_01]: They hope that you're too ashamed to say anything to anyone else, so word doesn't spread and they can keep on a scamming. 01:31.766 --> 01:34.528 [SPEAKER_01]: But not today, today I'm sharing the story. 01:35.582 --> 01:41.848 [SPEAKER_01]: In my state of confusion, the man asking for me by my name and using that tone had me shaking. 01:42.589 --> 01:46.333 [SPEAKER_01]: As I was waking up, he dropped the bomb that he was calling from the sheriff's office. 01:46.433 --> 01:50.396 [SPEAKER_01]: He was an officer, and there was actually now a warrant out for my arrest. 01:51.117 --> 01:58.882 [SPEAKER_01]: While I work in true crime, I'm privileged enough to only have so much first-hand knowledge about the justice system in that regard. 01:59.443 --> 02:12.432 [SPEAKER_01]: I have a lot of requests for records and interviews out to many different law enforcement folks, so I kind of wasn't totally alarmed at first, and my brain was trying to make sense of it like, wait, what I have a request for an interview is this that person. 02:13.332 --> 02:20.315 [SPEAKER_01]: The call started with this officer stating they were detective David Mott's and asked if I knew anything about a jury summons. 02:20.835 --> 02:27.958 [SPEAKER_01]: He then claimed I had signed a summons and had sent it back, but I had missed the summons on a certain date. 02:28.558 --> 02:33.260 [SPEAKER_01]: I said I didn't remember anything about that, but I also have a very bad memory, so it wouldn't surprise me. 02:33.760 --> 02:40.603 [SPEAKER_01]: He then explained that because I hadn't shown up to court, there would now be warrants for my arrest, and this sent me into a panic. 02:41.043 --> 02:43.504 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so out of the blue, I didn't know what to think. 02:43.964 --> 02:48.966 [SPEAKER_01]: My first thought really was, wait, I won't for my arrest, but I'm headed out to the No King's March. 02:48.986 --> 02:50.407 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be surrounded by cops. 02:51.220 --> 02:59.998 [SPEAKER_01]: Without realizing what was really going on, I asked how to correct the situation just wanting this to end and I thought this was as simple as a ticket or something along those lines. 03:00.593 --> 03:07.495 [SPEAKER_01]: Throughout the call, the officer claimed that the conversation was being recorded and the courts would have access to the recording. 03:08.075 --> 03:25.719 [SPEAKER_01]: And this is all part of their tactic, which they used to isolate me, telling me that I needed to be in room by myself and if a judge or anyone from the courts heard me discussing the case with anyone else in the house or they heard someone else on the recording, they could automatically execute the warrants, which was reiterated several times. 03:25.799 --> 03:28.720 [SPEAKER_01]: If we hear you talking to anyone, we can't come and arrest you. 03:31.361 --> 03:35.884 [SPEAKER_01]: which obviously, yes, in hindsight, sounds insane and no one would actually do that. 03:36.344 --> 03:41.608 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, when you're just waking up and someone is kind of threatening you, you're not thinking clearly. 03:41.868 --> 03:47.852 [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I was pacing maybe, and I was feeling some spidey senses. 03:47.992 --> 03:51.675 [SPEAKER_01]: You were definitely on the side of logic. 03:51.755 --> 03:53.076 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank goodness, you usually are. 03:53.816 --> 03:57.158 [SPEAKER_01]: And you were questioning things, but I was still panicking saying, 03:59.740 --> 04:02.222 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, yes, and you were saying, no, this isn't right. 04:02.242 --> 04:02.822 [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't right. 04:02.842 --> 04:04.884 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like, I know, but I don't know what's happening. 04:05.384 --> 04:06.325 [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't know what was happening. 04:06.385 --> 04:08.206 [SPEAKER_02]: I was I was afraid to. 04:08.266 --> 04:09.787 [SPEAKER_02]: I heard a warrant for your arrest. 04:09.867 --> 04:10.568 [SPEAKER_02]: I was scared. 04:10.808 --> 04:14.750 [SPEAKER_02]: I think if you had answered the phone, you would have immediately been like, what are you talking about? 04:14.771 --> 04:15.331 [SPEAKER_02]: Get out of here. 04:15.491 --> 04:15.831 [SPEAKER_02]: Hang up. 04:16.131 --> 04:18.493 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I would have known that I didn't sign a jury summit. 04:18.533 --> 04:19.214 [SPEAKER_02]: I definitely would have. 04:19.234 --> 04:19.734 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, that's fair. 04:19.794 --> 04:24.357 [SPEAKER_02]: Because if there's anything official, I'm so I usually do let things lapse. 04:24.377 --> 04:26.358 [SPEAKER_02]: Man, you know what, they could have got me. 04:26.418 --> 04:26.919 [SPEAKER_02]: Honestly. 04:28.232 --> 04:29.193 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to get in trouble. 04:29.893 --> 04:30.173 [SPEAKER_01]: You? 04:30.734 --> 04:31.054 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 04:32.135 --> 04:37.399 [SPEAKER_01]: So by this time, I was kind of starting to come to and things were seeming not right. 04:38.240 --> 04:40.982 [SPEAKER_01]: I started to explain to the guy, this was making no sense. 04:41.082 --> 04:45.105 [SPEAKER_01]: Why was a detective calling me about jury duty and on a Saturday? 04:45.625 --> 04:47.847 [SPEAKER_01]: Why was it a warrant and not a conversation? 04:47.967 --> 04:51.109 [SPEAKER_01]: I asked what I could do to just remedy this so we could all move on. 04:51.610 --> 04:57.294 [SPEAKER_01]: He sounded very legitimate and he was starting to get more stern, which led to me becoming more upset and frustrated. 04:57.814 --> 05:05.697 [SPEAKER_01]: He then told me to take a breath, calm down, again, sounding very official, and to get a note pad, so I could take down all of the important information. 05:06.217 --> 05:22.943 [SPEAKER_01]: He then walked me through the charges I was facing, which included failure to appear, a civil violation, contempt of court, and disobeying judges' orders, and he threw out numbers with that and costs, and all of these things that, again, added to the legitimacy. 05:23.663 --> 05:26.864 [SPEAKER_01]: Each charge had a warrant and a bond of $2,500. 05:27.264 --> 05:35.646 [SPEAKER_01]: I said I could go to the station literally down the street and just clear up this issue with the signature, which he assured me was fraud and it could all be fixed. 05:36.307 --> 05:44.569 [SPEAKER_01]: When I mentioned that, he told me that if I even stepped foot on government property, I would immediately be arrested, booked, and held for 48 to 72 hours. 05:45.169 --> 05:52.251 [SPEAKER_01]: If there was an issue with my signature on the document about jury duty, I could then be sentenced to 30 to 90 days in jail. 05:52.811 --> 05:55.153 [SPEAKER_01]: that was the criminal option that he was offering me. 05:55.433 --> 05:58.556 [SPEAKER_01]: Turn myself in, get booked, and that clears everything up. 05:59.217 --> 06:03.360 [SPEAKER_01]: The civil option would be to find a bonding kiosk and to pay the bond. 06:03.781 --> 06:06.083 [SPEAKER_01]: I asked if that meant a bail bond location. 06:06.283 --> 06:12.188 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, I don't have experience with these things, and he explained to me that it could be done over the phone. 06:12.708 --> 06:14.390 [SPEAKER_01]: In total, I was to pay $7,500 06:18.313 --> 06:25.722 [SPEAKER_01]: By this time, I am looking at the phone a little cricket and Josh who was still in the room and hearing things was flat out like, no. 06:26.243 --> 06:32.151 [SPEAKER_02]: This detective, I have discovered, sir, that you, I am detective. 06:33.973 --> 06:36.114 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm detecting non-detectiveness. 06:36.455 --> 06:36.975 [SPEAKER_02]: BS. 06:37.415 --> 06:39.697 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it just started feeling real hinky. 06:39.817 --> 06:40.077 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 06:40.217 --> 06:46.102 [SPEAKER_02]: When they were about you not being able to talk to anyone and being alone. 06:46.122 --> 06:47.783 [SPEAKER_02]: And that much money. 06:47.803 --> 06:48.304 [SPEAKER_02]: Ooh. 06:48.644 --> 06:48.824 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 06:49.425 --> 06:51.948 [SPEAKER_01]: At this point, my curiosity was getting the best of me. 06:52.149 --> 07:06.287 [SPEAKER_01]: So he explained that I could do a three-way call with him on the line after already saying that if the call was dropped and he called me back and didn't get an answer after three calls I would be arrested, which again should have been like what are you talking about? 07:07.048 --> 07:11.931 [SPEAKER_01]: He then said that I could call my parents to get the money, but could not explain the legal details. 07:12.031 --> 07:13.452 [SPEAKER_01]: So I told them, like, I do. 07:13.472 --> 07:15.273 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have $7,500. 07:15.753 --> 07:16.553 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not possible. 07:16.593 --> 07:20.656 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just going to go down the street to the sheriff's office and he kept saying, nope, we'll just pay it here. 07:21.036 --> 07:22.937 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, your parents have money as soon as he heard that. 07:23.217 --> 07:25.098 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, your parents have money, we'll call them. 07:25.599 --> 07:28.160 [SPEAKER_01]: But you cannot tell them the legal reasoning behind that. 07:28.180 --> 07:30.762 [SPEAKER_01]: And I said, that is not the kind of relationship we have. 07:31.102 --> 07:32.783 [SPEAKER_01]: And I am not going to give them a heart attack. 07:33.343 --> 07:36.447 [SPEAKER_01]: If I called my parents and just said, don't ask any questions. 07:36.908 --> 07:38.570 [SPEAKER_01]: Give this man your bank information. 07:38.630 --> 07:39.972 [SPEAKER_01]: He needs 75% off. 07:40.012 --> 07:41.554 [SPEAKER_01]: They'd probably call the FBI. 07:42.275 --> 07:46.001 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I told my parents this after my dad was like, oh, I would have hung up on him immediately. 07:46.732 --> 07:52.139 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, well, I'm glad everyone is way advanced and I'm that easily global and scared of being in trouble. 07:52.379 --> 08:02.172 [SPEAKER_02]: I think you're dad and I are like in that way where we have a distrust incidentally, yes, and then we'll get there. 08:02.433 --> 08:03.614 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, we'll get to trust. 08:04.395 --> 08:12.662 [SPEAKER_01]: As this went on, I was concerned, but it was also bizarre at this point, and he kept me on the hook for a lot longer than I would like to admit. 08:13.243 --> 08:17.546 [SPEAKER_01]: When I kept saying that I didn't have that kind of money, and I wouldn't be giving him over to my parents. 08:17.746 --> 08:20.849 [SPEAKER_01]: He shifted focused to, well, how much could you pay today? 08:21.490 --> 08:26.454 [SPEAKER_01]: I asked him, how much can I pay to just make this stop for now, to stop the warrants? 08:26.974 --> 08:27.655 [SPEAKER_01]: He wouldn't answer. 08:27.935 --> 08:30.677 [SPEAKER_01]: He'd just kept asking, how much could you get, how much can 08:32.014 --> 08:36.258 [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, the weirdness started to clear my head and I explained how shady all of this was. 08:36.639 --> 08:38.641 [SPEAKER_01]: Why was an officer calling about jury duty? 08:38.981 --> 08:42.525 [SPEAKER_01]: If I don't have a phone number to call back, how do I know if this is all taken care of? 08:43.005 --> 08:47.250 [SPEAKER_01]: He explained that he was calling on a private number because people don't answer when it says the police. 08:47.770 --> 08:51.814 [SPEAKER_01]: I also said I was not going to have my parents pay money over the phone to something questionable. 08:52.215 --> 08:55.298 [SPEAKER_01]: I also pointed out that the charges were incredibly basic. 08:55.618 --> 09:00.643 [SPEAKER_01]: If I were going to make something up, it would be as simple as failure to appear in $2,500. 09:01.223 --> 09:10.131 [SPEAKER_01]: As I push for more information and said I could just go the half mile down the street to the sheriff's office because I work in true crime and this is all very, very fishy, he hung up. 09:11.221 --> 09:13.123 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to let you guys know that that happened. 09:13.143 --> 09:17.666 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to be ashamed of it because we've all fallen for stuff in that's life. 09:18.247 --> 09:19.968 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want you to know this is out there. 09:20.708 --> 09:26.593 [SPEAKER_01]: And for an example of the audio, mine sounded, I think more official than this, but maybe not. 09:26.953 --> 09:33.098 [SPEAKER_01]: But there was a local officer who received basically this exact same scam call and they recorded it. 09:33.178 --> 09:36.140 [SPEAKER_01]: So have a listen so that you know what it sounds like. 09:36.180 --> 09:39.363 [SPEAKER_01]: So as soon as it starts, if you get this call, you can just hang up. 09:39.843 --> 09:42.586 [SPEAKER_01]: I did file a police report just so it was documented. 09:42.686 --> 09:44.908 [SPEAKER_01]: I know they're never going to be able to find the perpetrators. 09:44.928 --> 09:48.191 [SPEAKER_01]: I just wanted to share it with them and share it with you. 09:48.451 --> 09:50.012 [SPEAKER_01]: So you can share it with those you love. 09:50.393 --> 09:54.816 [SPEAKER_01]: This guy sounded very real and it was really actually scary. 09:55.237 --> 10:01.683 [SPEAKER_01]: And if I didn't have even just the little bit of legal knowledge that I do have, it would have been so easy to fall for. 10:01.843 --> 10:05.846 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I almost did and I know a little bit of stuff. 10:06.867 --> 10:13.792 [SPEAKER_01]: So, if you get a call from any kind of law enforcement person and they even hint at money, just hang up right away. 10:14.093 --> 10:19.997 [SPEAKER_01]: No police organization or law enforcement person is going to call and have you pay over the phone. 10:20.017 --> 10:21.498 [SPEAKER_01]: That's never going to happen. 10:22.459 --> 10:29.244 [SPEAKER_01]: So for now, have a listen to the scammer, and if you ever hear something like this, hang the F up. 10:30.145 --> 10:32.167 [SPEAKER_04]: Oh no, I miss jury duty. 10:32.971 --> 10:33.471 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, sir. 10:33.531 --> 10:34.672 [SPEAKER_03]: We are going to be required. 10:34.692 --> 10:35.793 [SPEAKER_03]: You're a physical president. 10:35.813 --> 10:36.413 [SPEAKER_03]: You're a chair. 10:36.513 --> 10:37.294 [SPEAKER_04]: Okay. 10:38.194 --> 10:39.175 [SPEAKER_03]: That's simple. 10:39.635 --> 10:42.136 [SPEAKER_03]: So, would I get an easy for you to make you wear your shirt or something? 10:42.577 --> 10:44.818 [SPEAKER_04]: Well, I'm not sure where the sheriff's department is. 10:45.698 --> 10:47.059 [SPEAKER_03]: That's simple. 10:47.099 --> 10:50.161 [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'm driving right now. 10:50.301 --> 10:55.164 [SPEAKER_03]: It was mandated by the government that I ran on this phone call until you do a rob your shirt or something. 10:56.252 --> 10:57.452 [SPEAKER_04]: So what do I need to do now? 10:58.093 --> 11:02.574 [SPEAKER_03]: So at this moment, I didn't give you maybe five men as good and get set together. 11:03.154 --> 11:06.415 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'm glad I speak my supervisor to see what we can do for you. 11:06.435 --> 11:10.016 [SPEAKER_03]: And get to saute, season up, live it before you're out for your shared apartment. 11:10.036 --> 11:13.157 [SPEAKER_03]: So you do not be arrested once you're out for your shared apartment. 11:13.237 --> 11:14.997 [SPEAKER_04]: Arrested, I could be arrested. 11:15.137 --> 11:15.957 [SPEAKER_04]: I could be arrested. 11:16.658 --> 11:17.038 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, sir. 11:17.058 --> 11:17.378 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, sir. 11:17.398 --> 11:17.878 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. 11:18.078 --> 11:18.418 [SPEAKER_04]: Come on. 11:18.678 --> 11:20.559 [SPEAKER_04]: OK, I'm just walking to the building now. 11:20.719 --> 11:21.579 [SPEAKER_03]: Good, that's ten four. 11:24.934 --> 11:31.198 [SPEAKER_03]: That was five, six, four, three, nine, seven, two, one, one. 11:31.458 --> 11:34.621 [SPEAKER_04]: I have, like, your DPSST number or something. 11:34.721 --> 11:37.482 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't do one of my BDSD numbers. 11:37.662 --> 11:41.085 [SPEAKER_03]: You do have two sautes and D. I'm pretty standard set at 10,000. 11:41.105 --> 11:44.047 [SPEAKER_03]: So we're going to be required to 10% of that. 11:44.067 --> 11:46.368 [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be a total of $1,000. 11:46.388 --> 11:48.810 [SPEAKER_03]: We only have set up pay at key hours of voucher receipts. 11:49.230 --> 11:51.712 [SPEAKER_03]: So you do have to make a stop at one hour photo pool 11:52.517 --> 12:00.171 [SPEAKER_04]: It doesn't really make sense to me that if missing federal jury duty would get me a citation with Clark County. 12:07.135 --> 12:11.057 [SPEAKER_01]: Once a week I get an email saying that we have comments to check on Spotify. 12:11.358 --> 12:14.960 [SPEAKER_01]: I always take a deep breath and hope for the best as I click the link. 12:15.600 --> 12:18.902 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, this week I may have learned why rage bait is a thing. 12:19.362 --> 12:29.308 [SPEAKER_01]: Due to my miss speaking in our episode about Delray Beach, that Ripley's Believe It or Not Museum was located in Lincoln City, Oregon, we received several corrective comments. 12:29.549 --> 12:29.829 [SPEAKER_00]: No! 12:30.609 --> 12:31.530 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:31.550 --> 12:31.690 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:31.710 --> 12:31.890 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:31.911 --> 12:32.051 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:32.071 --> 12:32.211 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:32.231 --> 12:32.391 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:32.411 --> 12:32.591 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:32.611 --> 12:32.751 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:32.771 --> 12:32.911 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:32.931 --> 12:33.132 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:33.152 --> 12:33.432 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:33.452 --> 12:33.732 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:33.752 --> 12:33.892 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:33.912 --> 12:34.052 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:34.072 --> 12:34.413 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:34.433 --> 12:34.613 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:34.653 --> 12:35.013 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:35.033 --> 12:35.233 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:35.253 --> 12:35.654 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:35.674 --> 12:35.854 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:35.974 --> 12:36.114 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:36.134 --> 12:36.274 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:36.294 --> 12:36.435 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:36.455 --> 12:36.615 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:36.635 --> 12:36.775 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:36.795 --> 12:36.975 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 12:36.995 --> 12:38.176 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 12:57.653 --> 13:08.565 [SPEAKER_01]: My deepest regrets and apologies to anyone who took me at my word and drove aimlessly throughout Lincoln City cursing my name as you sought your freaky history. 13:09.386 --> 13:13.451 [SPEAKER_02]: My bad your apology believe it or not 13:17.904 --> 13:22.406 [SPEAKER_01]: Before we get into our official updates, we want to give you a show update. 13:22.726 --> 13:27.509 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Josh, did you know it was our seventh show of our three back at the end of April? 13:28.109 --> 13:29.230 [SPEAKER_02]: I was aware of that. 13:29.330 --> 13:33.452 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know that I made any sort of celebratory statement. 13:33.790 --> 13:38.157 [SPEAKER_01]: No, we kind of forgotten here it is June and we're acknowledging it, but that's pretty cool seven years. 13:38.638 --> 13:39.439 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a long time. 13:39.719 --> 13:39.939 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 13:40.280 --> 13:46.650 [SPEAKER_02]: Our love grew within the time of this program and blossomed into marriage. 13:46.970 --> 13:47.191 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 13:48.092 --> 13:48.493 [SPEAKER_01]: poetic. 13:49.134 --> 13:49.374 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 13:50.476 --> 14:02.323 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so now that summer is upon us, which is always a busy time, we've been writing as a two-sum for a year now and due to an upcoming family wedding, look out Idaho, we're coming for you. 14:02.944 --> 14:08.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Camp Erin is coming up the grief camp, which I volunteer at, and all of the things going on. 14:08.887 --> 14:13.330 [SPEAKER_01]: We decided we just need to take a little break to keep up the good work. 14:13.790 --> 14:14.570 [SPEAKER_01]: Just a short one. 14:14.931 --> 14:15.471 [SPEAKER_01]: I promise. 14:15.711 --> 14:17.472 [SPEAKER_01]: Seriously, this time it's short. 14:17.972 --> 14:28.017 [SPEAKER_01]: We plan to be back in early August, and we will do another update in July just to check in with everybody, and at that time we will have our return date for August. 14:28.637 --> 14:33.840 [SPEAKER_01]: So in just a few weeks that we're gone, go catch up on all the episodes, and we will be back. 14:34.140 --> 14:37.142 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not going to be a, hey guys, let's take a breather and then 14:40.257 --> 14:41.318 [SPEAKER_02]: We're no longer burned out. 14:41.618 --> 14:42.578 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, or burnt out. 14:42.838 --> 14:43.759 [SPEAKER_02]: Boons and so on. 14:43.779 --> 14:45.320 [SPEAKER_02]: We're not boonstout. 14:47.741 --> 14:48.741 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're still fresh. 14:49.001 --> 14:52.603 [SPEAKER_01]: This really is just like, we got a hectic couple weeks. 14:53.464 --> 14:57.286 [SPEAKER_01]: We just won't be able to get the show done properly and in time. 14:57.326 --> 15:02.028 [SPEAKER_01]: So let's just take that off our plate for a minute and we'll revisit it. 15:02.188 --> 15:03.009 [SPEAKER_01]: So we will be back. 15:03.609 --> 15:04.529 [SPEAKER_01]: I promise you'll be okay. 15:04.629 --> 15:05.230 [SPEAKER_01]: Just a couple weeks. 15:05.710 --> 15:06.610 [SPEAKER_01]: We want to be missed. 15:06.891 --> 15:07.071 [SPEAKER_02]: Please 15:10.979 --> 15:13.281 [SPEAKER_01]: Some cases feel like they were written yesterday. 15:13.461 --> 15:18.005 [SPEAKER_01]: The victims, the details, the circumstances, parts of it just stick. 15:18.645 --> 15:22.028 [SPEAKER_01]: One of those cases for me was my three-partur street kids. 15:22.388 --> 15:25.971 [SPEAKER_01]: It's really kind of hard to believe that that came out three and a half years ago. 15:26.632 --> 15:38.622 [SPEAKER_01]: Because that was a three-partur, I am not going to go into all of the details of everything, but our update today has to do with one of the murderers of Jessica Williams, a victim I discussed in that case. 15:39.302 --> 15:41.364 [SPEAKER_01]: It has been a while since that episode came out. 15:41.464 --> 15:47.209 [SPEAKER_01]: So from that, here's a little bit of just because background and the story of her murder followed by the update. 15:48.668 --> 15:58.317 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica Kate Williams was dealt a very hard hand from the start of her short life, born June 23, 1980, from early on Jessica struggled with cognitive disabilities. 15:58.798 --> 16:11.510 [SPEAKER_01]: Her birth mother, who had already lost a daughter to the state after she was born with such severe brain damage she was sent to an institution, was a sex worker who struggled with alcohol and drug use before and during her pregnancy. 16:12.070 --> 16:19.012 [SPEAKER_01]: Placed in foster care at nine months old when her birth mother couldn't care for her, Jessica was far behind in her development. 16:19.392 --> 16:22.673 [SPEAKER_01]: She was unable to crawl, roll, sit, or take a bottle. 16:23.134 --> 16:24.054 [SPEAKER_01]: She simply screamed. 16:24.854 --> 16:27.935 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica was placed with a woman named Becky and her then husband. 16:28.315 --> 16:35.958 [SPEAKER_01]: They lived in Simi Valley, California and had seven other children who had also come from abuse, or had physical or mental disabilities. 16:36.758 --> 16:39.661 [SPEAKER_01]: It was a long road for Jessica during those first few years. 16:40.161 --> 16:45.626 [SPEAKER_01]: At three years old, a year before she would even begin to speak, Jessica started to run away from home. 16:46.126 --> 16:50.610 [SPEAKER_01]: The first time was out of a window before figuring out how to just leave out the front door. 16:51.170 --> 16:58.477 [SPEAKER_01]: The family took extra measures to protect her, first they nailed her window shut, then Becky took to sleeping outside Jessica's bedroom door. 16:59.513 --> 17:11.220 [SPEAKER_01]: What made things difficult was that Jessica didn't have the cognitive ability to understand most things for someone her age, but she especially struggled with understanding expectations and consequences. 17:11.800 --> 17:23.847 [SPEAKER_01]: So even when Mom Becky would reprimand her for running away or other negative behaviors, Jessica simply did not have the capacity to understand what she was in trouble for or how to avoid it in the future. 17:24.367 --> 17:27.009 [SPEAKER_01]: Becky would later say that Jessica's brain was quote 17:29.330 --> 17:33.531 [SPEAKER_01]: Eventually Becky, her husband and their brood of children made their way to Washington. 17:34.071 --> 17:41.954 [SPEAKER_01]: As time went on Jessica tried her best to echo the actions and behaviors of the people around her, but she just, quote, was not functioning. 17:42.634 --> 17:46.655 [SPEAKER_01]: Sadly, around this time Becky would lose her first husband to a drunk driver. 17:47.255 --> 17:49.776 [SPEAKER_01]: She would eventually remarry a man named Sam. 17:50.696 --> 17:58.042 [SPEAKER_01]: Sam and Becky would be the only ones who believed and supported Jessica when she came to them with accusations that a neighbor had molested her. 17:58.582 --> 18:02.765 [SPEAKER_01]: For everyone else, the troublemaker, Jessica, was not to be believed. 18:03.325 --> 18:06.288 [SPEAKER_01]: Thankfully, her parents stood by her and they pressed charges. 18:06.828 --> 18:13.273 [SPEAKER_01]: Once they did, it turned out there had been other victims in the neighborhood who were now being heard because Jessica knew to speak out. 18:14.093 --> 18:16.854 [SPEAKER_01]: Looking for a fresh start, the family moved North Carolina. 18:17.254 --> 18:20.836 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica thrived in the new setting, the land, the air, the horses. 18:21.516 --> 18:29.620 [SPEAKER_01]: Eventually, though, work had the family moving back to the Pacific Northwest, winding up in Gladstone, Oregon, a city about 11 miles south of Portland. 18:30.948 --> 18:34.071 [SPEAKER_01]: As Jessica came into her teen years, things did not get easier. 18:34.291 --> 18:36.433 [SPEAKER_01]: She presented much higher than she was. 18:36.893 --> 18:43.059 [SPEAKER_01]: Her verbal ability was that of a 12-year-old, but her cognitive abilities were closer to that of a four-year-old. 18:43.499 --> 18:51.086 [SPEAKER_01]: Her executive function skills, those that manage planning, attention, memory, instructions, and multitasking, were nearly non-existent. 18:51.586 --> 18:55.850 [SPEAKER_01]: She was still expressing her frustrations about being misunderstood by tantruming. 18:56.350 --> 19:00.931 [SPEAKER_01]: She had severe memory issues and her parents were concerned about how gullible she could be. 19:01.812 --> 19:14.475 [SPEAKER_01]: As a girl who already stood out because of her misunderstood behaviors, Jessica's physicality started to gain attention when she grew into a six foot two 220-pound body in her post-pubescent years. 19:15.135 --> 19:21.377 [SPEAKER_01]: That, along with her curly brown hair and brown skin, had her sticking out in all of the ways she didn't want to. 19:22.177 --> 19:29.425 [SPEAKER_01]: While her peers were going to the mall for acute new outfit, Jessica was forced to special order her clothes to fit her unusual build. 19:30.086 --> 19:42.601 [SPEAKER_01]: As the other girls in school had dates to the school dances, Jessica was living a moment straight out of carry, getting stood up after being tricked into thinking that she would be going to the winter formal with the most popular boy at school. 19:44.210 --> 19:48.093 [SPEAKER_01]: This led to highs and lows when it came to how Jessica felt about her disabilities. 19:48.593 --> 19:50.734 [SPEAKER_01]: When her feelings were hurt, she was frustrated. 19:51.115 --> 19:55.057 [SPEAKER_01]: Other times she didn't want to talk about it or even acknowledge she had any issues. 19:55.457 --> 19:57.119 [SPEAKER_01]: She just wanted them to not exist. 19:57.559 --> 20:01.802 [SPEAKER_01]: She was tired of being different and wanted to fit in, have friends like everyone else. 20:02.622 --> 20:04.203 [SPEAKER_01]: Religion brought Jessica comfort. 20:04.623 --> 20:11.008 [SPEAKER_01]: She was a devout church attendee going to three different church services throughout the week, volunteering and all of them. 20:11.768 --> 20:16.290 [SPEAKER_01]: On her 18th birthday, Jessica was now a legal adult and was still pushing limits. 20:16.870 --> 20:21.031 [SPEAKER_01]: Wanting to see what she could get away with, she left her home in Gladstone with a friend. 20:21.452 --> 20:23.512 [SPEAKER_01]: She then took a bus to who knows where. 20:24.152 --> 20:28.194 [SPEAKER_01]: When her parents realized Jessica was gone, Becky and Sam were terrified. 20:28.674 --> 20:36.137 [SPEAKER_01]: Their young girl, who was not only just a teenager but had so many issues, was in real danger, simply by being out in the world alone. 20:36.957 --> 20:41.781 [SPEAKER_01]: Becky and Sam called the police to report Jessica running away, but there is nothing that could be done. 20:42.282 --> 20:43.063 [SPEAKER_01]: She was 18. 20:43.583 --> 20:46.486 [SPEAKER_01]: There was nothing illegal about an adult leaving their house. 20:47.046 --> 20:53.432 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica eventually came home after simply staying the night at her friend's house, seeking a moment of independence. 20:54.328 --> 20:58.031 [SPEAKER_01]: It took her five years, but Jessica did complete her high school education. 20:58.511 --> 21:01.953 [SPEAKER_01]: She was feeling down as friends left for college or to start their career. 21:02.553 --> 21:09.238 [SPEAKER_01]: To help with Jessica's needs and desire for all things adulthood, she was given her own phone line and permitted to get a job. 21:10.259 --> 21:16.783 [SPEAKER_01]: Permission is one thing but finding a job as a person with any kind of disability or special need is incredibly difficult. 21:17.263 --> 21:19.965 [SPEAKER_01]: Some places had faith in her and gave her opportunities 21:23.458 --> 21:29.685 [SPEAKER_01]: She enjoyed her time working at a plant store and later a pet store, but after a few weeks, the jobs would come to an end. 21:30.964 --> 21:37.086 [SPEAKER_01]: When Jessica was 22, she was focused on two goals to get a job at the zoo and to be an independent adult. 21:37.526 --> 21:39.547 [SPEAKER_01]: She was tenacious about her zoo dreams. 21:39.907 --> 21:44.369 [SPEAKER_01]: She made five trips via multiple bus lines to the zoo to apply for a job. 21:44.909 --> 21:48.330 [SPEAKER_01]: Eventually, she was offered the part-time job of being a groundskeeper. 21:48.750 --> 21:53.592 [SPEAKER_01]: Her work consisted of walking through the zoo and tending to any trash or sweeping as needed. 21:54.312 --> 22:00.639 [SPEAKER_01]: Her family was so excited for her, not only had she set goals for herself but she put in the effort to meet them. 22:01.299 --> 22:09.648 [SPEAKER_01]: Going to the zoo a few days a week for about a month, Becky then asked Jessica for a pay stub she had so she could do paperwork regarding her disability payments. 22:10.268 --> 22:13.451 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica tried to blow her off, but soon she broke down. 22:14.072 --> 22:17.515 [SPEAKER_01]: Crying to her mother, she wept, quote, I feel like a failure. 22:17.675 --> 22:19.396 [SPEAKER_01]: My friends have apartments and jobs. 22:19.697 --> 22:21.698 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm 22, and I don't have anything. 22:22.399 --> 22:25.101 [SPEAKER_01]: The zoo job had never actually come to fruition. 22:25.502 --> 22:30.867 [SPEAKER_01]: She had simply made it up, even leaving the house every few days to make it seem like she had a job to go to. 22:31.707 --> 22:33.948 [SPEAKER_01]: Then came the holiday season of 2002. 22:34.429 --> 22:39.151 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica did get an actual job this time at the Ross Dress for Less in downtown Portland. 22:39.651 --> 22:43.253 [SPEAKER_01]: Just as her other jobs had been, this one was part-time and seasonal. 22:43.513 --> 22:44.233 [SPEAKER_01]: That didn't matter. 22:44.574 --> 22:48.676 [SPEAKER_01]: She was happy to have it and to hang out with the co-workers who also enjoyed her company. 22:49.356 --> 22:51.957 [SPEAKER_01]: Soon her confidence was growing from the inside out. 22:52.337 --> 22:56.820 [SPEAKER_01]: She was playing around with new makeup and hair styles before going to work in the big city. 22:57.740 --> 23:05.765 [SPEAKER_01]: Besides earning her own money and making friends, Jessica loved that her job was in the center of Portland, and pioneer courthouse square was just around the corner. 23:06.405 --> 23:08.526 [SPEAKER_01]: The location let her explore her independence. 23:08.906 --> 23:10.727 [SPEAKER_01]: It was also the most beautiful time of year. 23:10.867 --> 23:13.169 [SPEAKER_01]: The Christmas tree in the square was up and lit. 23:13.549 --> 23:15.390 [SPEAKER_01]: Garlins and lights were strewn about. 23:15.770 --> 23:17.171 [SPEAKER_01]: Store windows were dressed up. 23:17.891 --> 23:31.812 [SPEAKER_01]: Becky wasn't as keen on the idea, while Jessica had been placed via job services assistance, Becky couldn't understand why the job had to not only be a 20-minute drive from home, but in the middle of the downtown area, it made her nervous. 23:32.913 --> 23:43.582 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica's path soon started to cross with some of the street kids, whether they were hanging out in the square while she had lunch or they happened to be sharing a bus, Jessica was happy to be meeting new people. 23:44.182 --> 23:48.605 [SPEAKER_01]: After a few interactions, Jessica thought she had made a real friend with a young man. 23:49.266 --> 23:53.009 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, they had been friends until the boy presented a plan to Jessica. 23:53.569 --> 24:06.415 [SPEAKER_01]: His plan consisted of having her work a register, which I'm not even sure was part of her job description, and given how she was been described, I would be surprised if she was given the responsibility of running a register. 24:07.215 --> 24:16.460 [SPEAKER_01]: Regardless, the kid wanted her to be on a register and then pretend to ring up the clothing he was, quote, buying, and then he would just walk out of the store with it for free. 24:17.320 --> 24:30.408 [SPEAKER_01]: This idea horrified Jessica as soon as she got home she told her mother about the thieves plan telling her how Paul she was and that she would no longer be associating with that boy because she was not going to tolerate that kind of behavior. 24:31.168 --> 24:33.169 [SPEAKER_01]: Her mind was changed in a few days, though. 24:33.650 --> 24:37.552 [SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't going to engage in stealing but she didn't want to enter friendship. 24:38.032 --> 24:42.515 [SPEAKER_01]: She started to spend her lunch with that guy and his friends in the square more frequently. 24:43.275 --> 24:47.756 [SPEAKER_01]: Becky was more frustrated the job would be coming to an end after the holidays than Jessica was. 24:48.297 --> 24:59.320 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica was used to it by now, but Becky didn't understand why it seemed fair that disabled people who were offered work were always the first to be cut, as if they wouldn't be affected by the loss as much as anyone else. 25:00.240 --> 25:05.342 [SPEAKER_01]: Along came the new year in Jessica was out of work, but still found herself going into the city. 25:05.802 --> 25:12.764 [SPEAKER_01]: With the street kids, she had found a group of friends who seemed to understand her, or at the very least weren't mean about her being in their company. 25:13.244 --> 25:17.706 [SPEAKER_01]: So during the day, Jessica would, in essence, play the part of a street kid. 25:18.747 --> 25:22.851 [SPEAKER_01]: The kids not only accepted Jessica for who she was, but who she pretended to be. 25:23.332 --> 25:27.937 [SPEAKER_01]: This gave her space to create the fantasy version of the life she had always wished for. 25:28.457 --> 25:39.650 [SPEAKER_01]: Her street-kid character had been kicked out of her house by her mean parents, knowing the real her or not Jessica felt the kids, the family, as they were called, were becoming just that to her. 25:40.590 --> 25:47.855 [SPEAKER_01]: Even with all of Jessica's delays and outward differences, the kids really only noticed one part of her personality that stood out. 25:48.336 --> 25:57.122 [SPEAKER_01]: She had a near-dustane for violence, if a fight or argument broke out Jessica's childlike nature would come out and she would remove herself from the situation. 25:57.662 --> 26:04.307 [SPEAKER_01]: This delicate side made it clear to everyone that she was probably pretty new to the streets if she had even lived on them to begin with. 26:05.087 --> 26:08.189 [SPEAKER_01]: Another sign Jessica wasn't the tough street kid she claimed to be. 26:08.750 --> 26:11.611 [SPEAKER_01]: She went as far as smoking cigarettes, but that was it. 26:12.112 --> 26:13.753 [SPEAKER_01]: No serious drugs were ever used. 26:14.073 --> 26:15.774 [SPEAKER_01]: She never carried any kind of weapon. 26:16.274 --> 26:23.319 [SPEAKER_01]: What she loved about the culture was the interpersonal relationships within the family and the drama that was constantly unfolding. 26:23.739 --> 26:26.881 [SPEAKER_01]: She had front row seats to the best daytime drama in town. 26:27.862 --> 26:30.203 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica's parents worried about her every day. 26:30.684 --> 26:36.607 [SPEAKER_01]: In an effort to keep her home and safe, they decided to convert the garage into an apartment to give her more independence. 26:37.227 --> 26:53.876 [SPEAKER_01]: And as someone who grew up in a one bathroom, three bedroom home, who was given both a garage room and an outside shed room, I can totally relate to that desire for independence even when you aren't quite in the place to find it on your own, but having that kind of space can really help. 26:55.315 --> 27:02.525 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica loved the idea of the garage apartment in essence, but she didn't like that the refurbishment was going to take some time. 27:02.925 --> 27:12.098 [SPEAKER_01]: So until the room was ready, perhaps this her own counter motivation for her parents to get it done quickly, she said that she would be spending her time downtown until it was ready. 27:12.882 --> 27:22.444 [SPEAKER_01]: Besides hanging out with her friends and even participating in panhandling, Jessica liked to get what she could from the community programs, which was another place that she would spend her days with friends. 27:23.144 --> 27:33.427 [SPEAKER_01]: She did need help, so it wasn't like this was a total misuse, but these were organizations that were there to help kids who were houseless and didn't have a family to go home to at night. 27:34.087 --> 27:37.328 [SPEAKER_01]: No matter, she wanted a job and the programs could help with that. 27:37.948 --> 27:42.553 [SPEAKER_01]: The problem was that the program was for teenagers and they required identification. 27:43.094 --> 27:51.082 [SPEAKER_01]: Seeing as her ID would out her as a 22-year-old Jessica was unable to use the job assistance program or to take any of the provided classes. 27:51.954 --> 27:57.718 [SPEAKER_01]: It was at one of these programs, Jessica met Bello Street Kid Adrian, soon the pair were in official couple. 27:58.058 --> 28:01.160 [SPEAKER_01]: Her family wasn't against her dating, but they did have a rule. 28:01.520 --> 28:05.423 [SPEAKER_01]: You bring a boy home to meet your actual family before you start a relationship. 28:06.043 --> 28:13.748 [SPEAKER_01]: One could infer that being on the street had given Jessica the sense of independence that she had so desperately been craving for so many years. 28:14.428 --> 28:19.712 [SPEAKER_01]: Besides her boyfriend, Jessica barely talked about her street family to her actual family. 28:20.132 --> 28:22.373 [SPEAKER_01]: But when she did, they were quite alarmed. 28:22.914 --> 28:30.158 [SPEAKER_01]: Panhandling, a secret boyfriend, a boyfriend that she claimed had been approved already by her other mom and dad. 28:30.758 --> 28:35.020 [SPEAKER_01]: The situation downtown was a lot more questionable than her parents had thought. 28:36.081 --> 28:42.745 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't know she had been given the nickname Giggles because of her laughter, and that the kid said she was the nicest person you could have met. 28:43.943 --> 28:50.528 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica's difference is not so much the cognitive or physical ones, but lifestyle had the street family members taking issue with her. 28:51.108 --> 28:58.813 [SPEAKER_01]: Here they were, surviving on the streets, fighting for every meal, following every rule so they had a place to sleep, even if it was outside. 28:59.494 --> 29:07.459 [SPEAKER_01]: And here she was, showing up, getting off a bus to do cosplay of their lifestyle, and they were starting to not take too kindly to it. 29:08.340 --> 29:12.964 [SPEAKER_01]: There would be times Jessica would stay at home for days on end and not bother going downtown. 29:13.504 --> 29:14.945 [SPEAKER_01]: The kids didn't have that choice. 29:15.466 --> 29:18.188 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica was still heavily involved in her churches. 29:18.708 --> 29:21.170 [SPEAKER_01]: The kids were desperate for community and support. 29:21.791 --> 29:28.596 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica tried to put in an effort to fit in more by spending the night on the concrete with Adrian, but it just wasn't for her. 29:29.417 --> 29:34.300 [SPEAKER_01]: In addition to Jessica having loving parents and a home, she continued to struggle with rules. 29:34.780 --> 29:42.244 [SPEAKER_01]: Just like when she was a child, and couldn't be disciplined because she couldn't understand the idea of consequences, she wasn't bothered by the rules of the family. 29:42.884 --> 29:47.806 [SPEAKER_01]: This social setting had become a replacement for the high school experience she thought she would have had. 29:48.367 --> 29:49.807 [SPEAKER_01]: There were people to engage with. 29:50.027 --> 29:50.948 [SPEAKER_01]: She loved flirting. 29:51.008 --> 29:51.988 [SPEAKER_01]: She loved the drama. 29:52.409 --> 29:54.830 [SPEAKER_01]: It was teenage theater, and she couldn't get enough. 29:55.310 --> 29:58.992 [SPEAKER_01]: Her time downtown brought out a lively outgoing side of Jessica. 29:59.692 --> 30:04.274 [SPEAKER_01]: To add some excitement to her life, she toyed with the idea of switching boyfriends when she felt like it. 30:04.794 --> 30:06.295 [SPEAKER_01]: She would even do the emthinkable. 30:06.615 --> 30:08.695 [SPEAKER_01]: She would tattle on fellow family members. 30:09.216 --> 30:18.800 [SPEAKER_01]: To her, it was all part of the same dramatic games the kids were playing, and because of how she presented, they didn't realize that she might not have fully understood what was going on. 30:19.960 --> 30:25.869 [SPEAKER_01]: After a short romance Adrian and Jessica broke up, she quickly moved on to dating Jimmy, aka Neo. 30:26.249 --> 30:27.992 [SPEAKER_01]: But this only caused more drama. 30:28.473 --> 30:34.281 [SPEAKER_01]: Neo had been the son of Cassidy, aka Juliet, who was the mother of the family. 30:34.882 --> 30:40.745 [SPEAKER_01]: Julie at New of Jessica, she claimed Jessica had stolen a sweater from her while at one of the local agencies. 30:41.185 --> 30:45.607 [SPEAKER_01]: There had even been an attempt to have Jessica beaten up because of that perceived theft. 30:46.408 --> 30:50.610 [SPEAKER_01]: Board Jessica started to tell the kids that Jimmy was violent and she was afraid of him. 30:51.090 --> 30:59.194 [SPEAKER_01]: They broke up but not before he had already received death threats from other family members who were upset that he had broken the rule of being violent towards a girl. 31:00.054 --> 31:02.354 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica moved on again this time to Nicholas. 31:02.775 --> 31:07.195 [SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't having sex with any of these romantic partners, and she was still returning home at night. 31:07.835 --> 31:16.977 [SPEAKER_01]: Not only did Jessica not have to tolerate the uncomfortable and dangerous conditions of the street, but while she was gone, it made her unaware of the growing anger around her. 31:17.517 --> 31:20.378 [SPEAKER_01]: She thought she was at the helm of it all, and it was thrilling. 31:20.878 --> 31:23.958 [SPEAKER_01]: And remember, this is a girl with the mental capacity of a 12-year-old. 31:24.338 --> 31:24.818 [SPEAKER_01]: What 12-year-old 31:29.280 --> 31:32.284 [SPEAKER_01]: Other nighttime planning included concocting new schemes. 31:32.764 --> 31:36.930 [SPEAKER_01]: The family had decided to pose as sex workers to lure men before mugging them. 31:37.350 --> 31:44.520 [SPEAKER_01]: If the men threatened to report anything, the kids would remind them that they were trying to buy sex from a teenager, so no police report would be made. 31:45.332 --> 31:48.513 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica was a girl after my own heart who loved a good title. 31:48.973 --> 31:50.454 [SPEAKER_01]: This had been beneficial to her. 31:50.714 --> 31:53.275 [SPEAKER_01]: She had tattled as a young girl and caught a pedophile. 31:53.755 --> 31:58.016 [SPEAKER_01]: Now as an adult, perhaps her tattling could keep her safe from the potential harms of the city. 31:58.676 --> 32:04.178 [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, she used the power of tattling and the reaction it got from the kids to her advantage. 32:05.265 --> 32:13.511 [SPEAKER_01]: In early 2003, Jessica loudly proclaimed to anyone who had listened that her bow, Nicholas, had tried to talk her into exchanging money for sex. 32:13.931 --> 32:17.074 [SPEAKER_01]: The disrespect of paying for sex was against the family's code. 32:17.474 --> 32:23.839 [SPEAKER_01]: When confronted about it, Nicholas admitted he had asked Jessica to have sex, but money was never part of that conversation. 32:24.479 --> 32:30.864 [SPEAKER_01]: His side of the story didn't matter, and the next day an on-site order was given, meaning if anyone was to come in contact with him, 32:36.878 --> 32:47.721 [SPEAKER_01]: Scared for his life, Nicholas gave Jessica some of his belongings to hold on to as the rumors had viciously evolved into him attempting to pay a 14-year-old for sex, a much worse offense. 32:48.481 --> 32:57.944 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica heard the conversations about the tax, Nicholas would be facing, hating violence and perhaps she understood a little bit of her responsibility for what would be happening to him. 32:58.484 --> 33:01.425 [SPEAKER_01]: She first tried to beg the family members not to go through with it. 33:01.965 --> 33:07.330 [SPEAKER_01]: unsure what the outcome would be, she removed herself from the situation and stayed home for three days. 33:08.291 --> 33:18.439 [SPEAKER_01]: With the same energy and intensity from a decade prior, which I discussed in the other episodes, the family now led by a man named James had their sights set on Nicholas. 33:18.960 --> 33:23.464 [SPEAKER_01]: Finding him, they asked that he make his way to the square where the family could all meet up. 33:23.944 --> 33:27.287 [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't want to risk his life by going, but his hiding didn't work. 33:27.707 --> 33:34.712 [SPEAKER_01]: He was caught in a parking garage and endured a severe beating from the top down, not just on his body, but throughout the building. 33:35.212 --> 33:41.517 [SPEAKER_01]: After chasing him to the top of the structure of the family members who were present, kicked him, hit him, and threw him into the walls. 33:42.097 --> 33:48.482 [SPEAKER_01]: Trying to escape, they chased him down each floor, catching up to him they would grab him by the neck and throw his head into the wall. 33:49.316 --> 33:55.022 [SPEAKER_01]: Surviving the family members dragged the bloodied boy and forced him to march from the parking garage to the square. 33:55.522 --> 34:02.950 [SPEAKER_01]: He was made to apologize to the family before being permitted to run from the scene, which he did straight to a phone at a convenience store. 34:03.470 --> 34:06.974 [SPEAKER_01]: With a swollen lip, broken nose and black eyes, he called for an ambulance. 34:07.374 --> 34:10.197 [SPEAKER_01]: He refused to speak to the police about what caused his injuries. 34:10.618 --> 34:13.821 [SPEAKER_01]: Instead, he hopped on a Greyhound bus bound for the Oregon coast. 34:15.047 --> 34:18.668 [SPEAKER_01]: With one of her boyfriends out of the picture, Jessica went back with Jimmy. 34:19.109 --> 34:25.491 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, his relationship with her had already led to threats against him, and he saw the outcome of Nicolas and Jessica's relationship. 34:26.051 --> 34:27.852 [SPEAKER_01]: Nevertheless, he was happy to be with her. 34:28.332 --> 34:36.175 [SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps to celebrate or maybe because she was getting deeper and deeper involved with the family, Jessica decided she would again stay the night downtown. 34:36.795 --> 34:45.357 [SPEAKER_01]: She called her family to let them know that she would be staying out which only led to a heated conversation full of her parents warning her of the dangers and begging her to come home. 34:45.837 --> 34:48.018 [SPEAKER_01]: She hung up, caring not that they were upset. 34:48.818 --> 34:53.019 [SPEAKER_01]: On Wednesday, May 21st, Jessica broke up with Jimmy as he was lame. 34:53.699 --> 35:01.481 [SPEAKER_01]: A heartbroken Jimmy told his romantic woes to his mother Juliet, who already hated Jessica because of the sweatshirt and her poser lifestyle. 35:07.122 --> 35:16.224 [SPEAKER_01]: The next night, Jessica went home, while absent, Juliet declared Jessica would need to pay a tax, not just for breaking her dear Jimmy's heart, but for everything. 35:16.784 --> 35:21.385 [SPEAKER_01]: Making her case against Jessica, Juliet pointed out how she didn't abide by the rules. 35:21.765 --> 35:24.306 [SPEAKER_01]: She was annoying, overly religious, she tattled. 35:24.726 --> 35:26.546 [SPEAKER_01]: She wasn't beneficial to the group either. 35:27.026 --> 35:35.688 [SPEAKER_01]: She was very clear about never wanting to be around violence or arguments, and she refused to carry a weapon, so it wasn't like she would be protective of the family of shit went 35:36.968 --> 35:41.310 [SPEAKER_01]: Unaware of how the family was speaking about her, Jessica returned to the square the next day. 35:41.871 --> 35:46.053 [SPEAKER_01]: Joking around, she didn't realize she was being perceived as bothersome by everyone. 35:46.473 --> 35:48.654 [SPEAKER_01]: She thought she was just playing around with her friends. 35:49.415 --> 35:56.939 [SPEAKER_01]: After a day of panhandling, she decided, without bothering to upset her family at home with a phone call, that she would be staying the night at the camp. 35:57.959 --> 35:59.879 [SPEAKER_01]: 13 kids went into the camp that night. 36:00.340 --> 36:05.721 [SPEAKER_01]: Unlike Jessica, Jimmy knew very well how the family felt about her and he didn't want her to stay with him. 36:06.261 --> 36:10.842 [SPEAKER_01]: When he realized she was staying, he asked her what the fuck she was doing there. 36:11.462 --> 36:13.402 [SPEAKER_01]: The temperature of the camp quickly rose. 36:13.842 --> 36:21.044 [SPEAKER_01]: While some tried to quail the situation, Jessica unknowingly aggravated things by responding to Jimmy with who left you in charge. 36:23.251 --> 36:23.371 [UNKNOWN]: You 36:30.783 --> 36:41.408 [SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps seeing an opportunity to house her least favorite faux daughter, Juliet pulled Jessica to the side and interrogated her about the situation with Nicholas, saying she was lying about what happened. 36:41.948 --> 36:44.949 [SPEAKER_01]: Before Jessica could explain, there were more accusations. 36:45.370 --> 36:53.573 [SPEAKER_01]: The family listened as Juliet claimed Jessica not only stole money from the family, but that she was riding out their weed selling information to the cops. 36:54.354 --> 36:57.335 [SPEAKER_01]: As always, there was no need for a rebuttal or proof. 36:57.655 --> 36:58.836 [SPEAKER_01]: the accusation was made. 36:59.116 --> 37:01.018 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica was guilty as charged. 37:01.459 --> 37:04.902 [SPEAKER_01]: Her standing in the family already flimsy was decimated. 37:05.482 --> 37:08.745 [SPEAKER_01]: Swarming around her, the 13 kids in circle, Jessica. 37:09.126 --> 37:12.269 [SPEAKER_01]: They were mad and it was time for Jessica to pay her tax. 37:13.328 --> 37:17.891 [SPEAKER_01]: forcing her to the middle of the circle it was demanded Jessica got on her knees which she did. 37:18.391 --> 37:26.457 [SPEAKER_01]: This was not easy for her to do because of her physical issues and overall size being on her knees in the gravel had to have been excruciating. 37:27.037 --> 37:30.559 [SPEAKER_01]: As she knelt in the circle she was ordered to remain silent and still. 37:31.020 --> 37:33.822 [SPEAKER_01]: If she broke either of those rules she would be hit with a bat. 37:34.642 --> 37:42.168 [SPEAKER_01]: In the previous episodes, I discussed something called the Rambo Games, and now under the rule of James Nelson, those games were back. 37:42.829 --> 37:45.031 [SPEAKER_01]: One boy started to dance around erratically. 37:45.231 --> 37:47.293 [SPEAKER_01]: Others were charged with being lookouts. 37:47.773 --> 37:53.137 [SPEAKER_01]: A boy was left to handle the family's wrought while or chronic, who was already getting worked up from the weird energy. 37:53.678 --> 37:58.662 [SPEAKER_01]: Another kid, Carl, went full warriors and started clinging his bat against a metal pillar 38:03.251 --> 38:07.836 [SPEAKER_01]: 17-year-old Carl Alsub, who went by Reath struggled with truth and reality. 38:08.337 --> 38:10.840 [SPEAKER_01]: He bragged about being a murderer, which wasn't true. 38:11.380 --> 38:13.563 [SPEAKER_01]: His mother had been a police officer in Texas. 38:13.783 --> 38:17.627 [SPEAKER_01]: When abuse issues arose in his home, he was placed in foster care. 38:18.168 --> 38:23.274 [SPEAKER_01]: When that temporary placement ended, the abuse started to come from Carl as he targeted his brother. 38:23.774 --> 38:27.717 [SPEAKER_01]: During one of these incidents, Carl's mother called the police and had him arrested. 38:28.157 --> 38:35.762 [SPEAKER_01]: He was soon running away from home frequently, helping to start fresh Carl, his brother and mother moved to the Portland suburb of Lake Oswego. 38:36.743 --> 38:41.666 [SPEAKER_01]: While still on her knees, Jessica, who was wearing jeans and a t-shirt under a sweatshirt, was robbed. 38:42.027 --> 38:44.268 [SPEAKER_01]: The kids took her wallet, jewelry, and phone. 38:44.848 --> 38:47.991 [SPEAKER_01]: Juliet felt she was made square by taking her sweatshirt. 38:48.751 --> 38:52.958 [SPEAKER_01]: As Jessica remains silent on her knees, the kids were chomping at the bit to torment her. 38:53.418 --> 38:56.342 [SPEAKER_01]: They started by holding a cigarette to her lips and pulling it away. 38:56.683 --> 38:58.065 [SPEAKER_01]: This had the kids cracking up. 38:58.566 --> 39:02.812 [SPEAKER_01]: Then a few of the males approached Jessica and held her head while cutting off her hair. 39:03.653 --> 39:09.138 [SPEAKER_01]: upset about Jessica's lies leading to Nicholas's beating, a Juliet demanded she pay the same tax. 39:09.739 --> 39:13.262 [SPEAKER_01]: So with her hands behind her back, the girls started to beat Jessica. 39:13.723 --> 39:16.305 [SPEAKER_01]: They would alternate taking turns hitting and slapping her. 39:16.866 --> 39:24.393 [SPEAKER_01]: Perhaps falling to the side or maybe she maintained her position, the slapping turned into Jessica getting kicked in the ribs almost two dozen times. 39:25.727 --> 39:29.889 [SPEAKER_01]: Boyfriend Jimmy, father, James, and other men watched on. 39:30.309 --> 39:36.372 [SPEAKER_01]: Juliet was so in rage she started going completely wild on Jessica, screaming punching kicking. 39:36.712 --> 39:39.113 [SPEAKER_01]: She was like an animal and had to be pulled off of her. 39:39.753 --> 39:43.595 [SPEAKER_01]: Juliet was stuck in a cycle of getting her composure, calming down. 39:44.095 --> 39:51.018 [SPEAKER_01]: She would approach Jessica again, only to become blind with rage and attacker before being pulled away and starting it again. 39:52.081 --> 39:55.343 [SPEAKER_01]: After Juliet stepped away another girl approached Jessica on the circle. 39:55.603 --> 40:00.867 [SPEAKER_01]: She too let loose and between punching and kicking landed about 50 blows on Jessica's body. 40:01.427 --> 40:03.269 [SPEAKER_01]: The next girl added three more kicks. 40:03.669 --> 40:08.032 [SPEAKER_01]: These were punk kids too, most of them were in boots, possibly steel-toed ones. 40:08.916 --> 40:12.680 [SPEAKER_01]: Two more kids arrived, one of whom Sarah begged not to participate. 40:13.121 --> 40:14.102 [SPEAKER_01]: James forced her to. 40:14.642 --> 40:19.007 [SPEAKER_01]: Looking at James, Sarah knew that if she did not engage in the beating, she would be next. 40:19.668 --> 40:24.433 [SPEAKER_01]: So, grabbing an iron-filled glove, she approached Jessica and asked her why she had lied. 40:25.013 --> 40:28.697 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica simply told her it was because, quote, she was a stupid girl. 40:29.398 --> 40:35.063 [SPEAKER_01]: Sarah argued back telling Jessica she wasn't stupid before apologizing and hitting her with the glove. 40:35.884 --> 40:39.027 [SPEAKER_01]: The beating went on and on until the girls started to get tired. 40:39.507 --> 40:41.949 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone then declared Jessica to be an ash tray. 40:42.450 --> 40:47.114 [SPEAKER_01]: A girl stepped up and put her cigarette out on Jessica's remaining hair which caught on fire. 40:47.694 --> 40:51.478 [SPEAKER_01]: The fire was put out but the cigarette burnings continued by other family members. 40:52.811 --> 40:59.977 [SPEAKER_01]: A boy in the family used his turn to hold a lighter to some of her hair and an eyebrow claiming that this was all being done in the name of honesty. 41:00.737 --> 41:10.225 [SPEAKER_01]: Still upright on her knees, Jessica was then forced to put her hands out towards Juliet, who held a lighter underneath them, moving back and forth, burning Jessica's palms. 41:11.185 --> 41:14.208 [SPEAKER_01]: Now Jessica's arms face and back were covered in burns. 41:14.628 --> 41:16.490 [SPEAKER_01]: The orifices of her head were bleeding. 41:16.970 --> 41:19.372 [SPEAKER_01]: So much of her body was now swollen and broken. 41:19.855 --> 41:28.260 [SPEAKER_01]: Yet through the hours of beating, burning, and degradation, Jessica followed their rule and stayed nearly silent, except for involuntary moans and grunts. 41:29.240 --> 41:40.206 [SPEAKER_01]: Even as the kids took a break, stories swirled in the camp, as a silent and desperate Jessica looked on, the rumor of her having spat at Juliet at some point started to spread, and that was the last straw. 41:40.667 --> 41:46.490 [SPEAKER_01]: With fists and weapons, the kids and their parents found renewed energy and went back to beating on Jessica. 41:47.190 --> 41:51.113 [SPEAKER_01]: One witness guessed the number of strikes to be as high as 400. 41:52.033 --> 41:58.478 [SPEAKER_01]: Juliet, aka Cassandra, had such hate for Jessica that she couldn't stay away over and over again. 41:58.538 --> 42:01.039 [SPEAKER_01]: She was pulled off of her when she got too out of control. 42:01.500 --> 42:04.882 [SPEAKER_01]: When her hands were hurting, she grabbed a belt and began to whip Jessica. 42:05.362 --> 42:10.306 [SPEAKER_01]: Once away from her, Juliet would beg the others to let her use the baseball bat to just kill her. 42:10.906 --> 42:11.767 [SPEAKER_01]: They wouldn't allow it. 42:12.547 --> 42:25.712 [SPEAKER_01]: On one of the last occasions where Cassandra slashed Juliet unleash her fury on a somehow still upright Jessica, she was pulled away and was in a blackout, or as described by some, a seizure-like state that led to her puking. 42:26.733 --> 42:31.015 [SPEAKER_01]: Across the street from the camp and the torture that was taking place, there was a 7-11. 42:31.475 --> 42:36.037 [SPEAKER_01]: At one AM, one of the girls from the family went inside and purchased a bottle of lighter fluid. 42:36.457 --> 42:39.538 [SPEAKER_01]: At one 25 AM, two of the guys bought another. 42:40.771 --> 42:46.033 [SPEAKER_01]: The attack had gone on for so long now that the parents, Juliet and James, were starting to become paranoid. 42:46.453 --> 42:54.275 [SPEAKER_01]: They had taken the tax too far, and with Jessica having a caring family, a home, and a pension for snitching, they knew they were in trouble. 42:54.715 --> 42:57.896 [SPEAKER_01]: They wanted Jessica out of the camp and gave her the order to stand up. 42:58.376 --> 43:01.537 [SPEAKER_01]: When she did, blood ran down her body, she was covered in it. 43:01.877 --> 43:06.379 [SPEAKER_01]: Her face was so broken and disfigured, one witness compared it to that of the elephant man. 43:07.299 --> 43:16.342 [SPEAKER_01]: As for what happened next, there are conflicting reports, Cassandra's last Juliet, Jimmy, Danielle, and another kid all claimed to have been given the order to kill Jessica. 43:16.882 --> 43:21.244 [SPEAKER_01]: Carl, the kid who had been singing earlier, decided to join the group on their mission. 43:21.984 --> 43:32.988 [SPEAKER_01]: As the three kids, Danielle, Carl and Jimmy walked with Jessica toward the steel bridge, another kid went back to the seven alumni by a bottle of water to be used in an attempt to clean away Jessica's blood from the camp. 43:33.828 --> 43:40.876 [SPEAKER_01]: As the others cleaned, the four kids made their way to the footbridge on the bottom level of the steel bridge to get to the east side of the Willamut River. 43:41.537 --> 43:44.880 [SPEAKER_01]: Somehow, through the pain, Jessica was able to walk on her own. 43:45.441 --> 43:48.704 [SPEAKER_01]: She never argued, never begged, just did as she was told. 43:49.345 --> 43:53.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Danielle, however, began to get scared about the entire situation and started to turn back. 43:54.110 --> 43:55.432 [SPEAKER_01]: The guys convinced her to stay. 43:56.685 --> 44:03.889 [SPEAKER_01]: Throughout all of this, no one considered the cameras inside the 7-11 or the ones on the bridge, which captured everything. 44:04.710 --> 44:17.677 [SPEAKER_01]: Walking near the Rose Garden, which is now called the Motor Center, it's the event center where the blazers play, but I will not call it anything but the Rose Garden, the group approached events, which they forced Jessica to climb and she was somehow able to do. 44:18.358 --> 44:21.680 [SPEAKER_01]: Now they were behind a retaining wall on the backside of the Rose Garden. 44:22.420 --> 44:26.766 [SPEAKER_01]: In yet another gravel area, Carl and Jimmy force Jessica to again kneel. 44:27.146 --> 44:27.767 [SPEAKER_01]: She complied. 44:28.268 --> 44:32.373 [SPEAKER_01]: Those who knew her don't think she was going along with things just to be compliant. 44:32.753 --> 44:39.001 [SPEAKER_01]: When confused or overwhelmed, Jessica was known to freeze and they believed that that's what was happening here. 44:39.902 --> 44:44.284 [SPEAKER_01]: Danielle went from wanting to back out to being the first to brandish a weapon, a switchblade. 44:44.764 --> 44:51.846 [SPEAKER_01]: The former college student who was focused on helping and working with students with autism was now threatening the life of a girl with disabilities. 44:52.486 --> 44:56.068 [SPEAKER_01]: Terrified Jessica started to beg saying, What are you doing? 44:56.268 --> 44:57.448 [SPEAKER_01]: Please don't do this to me. 44:57.768 --> 44:58.688 [SPEAKER_01]: Please don't kill me. 44:59.329 --> 45:00.469 [SPEAKER_01]: Danielle comforted her. 45:00.989 --> 45:02.010 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry sweetheart. 45:02.130 --> 45:02.630 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry. 45:03.330 --> 45:11.295 [SPEAKER_01]: Jessica then looked at her three friends, her family, after they nearly beat her to death she said, it's okay, I won't hold this against you. 45:12.576 --> 45:16.298 [SPEAKER_01]: It was Jimmy Jessica's one-time boyfriend who would take the blade from Danielle. 45:16.699 --> 45:24.144 [SPEAKER_01]: Jimmy looked at Jessica, apologized, then kissed her forehead, walking behind her, he attempted to cut her throat, but the blade was too dull. 45:24.624 --> 45:29.327 [SPEAKER_01]: Jimmy didn't have it in him to put the strength needed into doing the actual harm to Jessica. 45:30.497 --> 45:34.859 [SPEAKER_01]: Carl, on the other hand, had no problem with it and was happy to be offered the weapon. 45:35.319 --> 45:44.182 [SPEAKER_01]: He started by kicking Jessica on the leg so she would fall to the ground, rolling her onto her back, Carl placed his knee in Jessica's chest, and held the knife to her throat. 45:44.782 --> 45:52.865 [SPEAKER_01]: Unable to cut, he chose to stab her in the neck three to four times, as blood and erascaped the wounds her voice gurgled, what are you doing? 45:53.705 --> 45:54.806 [SPEAKER_01]: It was Danielle's turn. 45:58.907 --> 46:05.950 [SPEAKER_01]: Jimmy was feeling braver now that his friends had initiated the stabbing, and when he was handed the blade, he stabbed Jessica in the throat twice. 46:06.470 --> 46:09.771 [SPEAKER_01]: He then rolled her onto her stomach before stabbing her in the back twice. 46:10.352 --> 46:11.592 [SPEAKER_01]: Then it was back to Carl. 46:12.052 --> 46:14.953 [SPEAKER_01]: They were finding it much harder to kill Jessica than expected. 46:15.414 --> 46:16.874 [SPEAKER_01]: She continued to make sounds. 46:17.334 --> 46:23.317 [SPEAKER_01]: She was staying quiet, but her body was, in their words, gurgling, so he stabbed and stabbed. 46:23.797 --> 46:26.338 [SPEAKER_01]: Taking a break, he went back to singing and dancing. 46:27.703 --> 46:39.270 [SPEAKER_01]: Fearing they were taking too long and might get caught, and Jessica might not die, the group decided to put the gurgling to rest by rolling her onto her back, then they took turns stomping the air out of her chest. 46:39.831 --> 46:46.935 [SPEAKER_01]: After at least eight of those blows, Carl began jumping on top of Jessica's chest with both feet shouting, why won't you die? 46:47.475 --> 46:51.158 [SPEAKER_01]: His jumping continued not just on her lungs, but on her head as well. 46:52.058 --> 46:55.481 [SPEAKER_01]: Jimmy watched on as his girlfriend's eyes started to split open. 46:55.941 --> 46:57.783 [SPEAKER_01]: Teeth and face bones were shattered. 46:58.283 --> 46:59.624 [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, she was still. 47:00.184 --> 47:00.885 [SPEAKER_01]: She was quiet. 47:01.666 --> 47:05.028 [SPEAKER_01]: The group then doused Jessica with the recently purchased lighter fluid. 47:05.508 --> 47:09.211 [SPEAKER_01]: Strangely, when they put a lighter to it, only some of her clothes were ablaze. 47:09.852 --> 47:11.113 [SPEAKER_01]: They then realized the problem. 47:11.533 --> 47:16.017 [SPEAKER_01]: Her shirt was literally soaking wet with blood, and it would not ignite. 47:17.017 --> 47:21.879 [SPEAKER_01]: As they tried to come up with a new plan, there was another gasping breath, Jessica wasn't dead. 47:22.459 --> 47:26.441 [SPEAKER_01]: The trio went back to jumping in an effort to put out flames and extinguish her life. 47:27.061 --> 47:32.824 [SPEAKER_01]: Finally, they heard a death rattle of a breath, and 22-year-old Jessica Kate Williams was gone. 47:33.824 --> 47:37.327 [SPEAKER_01]: Now that they were certain she was dead, they went back to setting her on fire. 47:37.807 --> 47:44.953 [SPEAKER_01]: This time they grabbed a random blanket that happened to be lying near them, put it on top of her, doused it, and lit the blanket. 47:45.513 --> 47:48.296 [SPEAKER_01]: This time they didn't have any issues with the fire catching. 47:48.776 --> 47:52.819 [SPEAKER_01]: They watched as the light reflected off the walls of the surrounding buildings and pillars. 47:53.400 --> 47:57.783 [SPEAKER_01]: The group returned to the campus heroes, Carl even had an arrangement with a fellow kid 48:02.768 --> 48:07.328 [SPEAKER_01]: The following morning, May 23rd, a railroad worker discovered Jessica's body. 48:09.370 --> 48:13.952 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, you can see why that case, especially Jessica's stayed with me. 48:15.032 --> 48:27.317 [SPEAKER_01]: Now for the update, Carl Alsape, who was found guilty for his part in Jessica's murder and was given a life sentence is now 40 years old, and he recently had a very long hearing with the parole board. 48:27.957 --> 48:31.979 [SPEAKER_01]: Carl claimed he was staying sober and had transformed, while in prison. 48:32.679 --> 48:34.620 [SPEAKER_01]: Let me guess, Jesus has involved? 48:35.040 --> 48:35.921 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you believe that? 48:37.461 --> 48:39.443 [SPEAKER_01]: And the Pearlboard, the love it. 48:40.123 --> 48:40.744 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have a guess? 48:40.784 --> 48:50.390 [SPEAKER_01]: So Carl, I mentioned he was the kid that while the beating was happening, he was singing the song and hitting his bat, and then he elected himself to go along with the mission of murder. 48:50.610 --> 48:53.993 [SPEAKER_01]: And he was the one that stabbed her first and was jumping the most aggressive. 48:54.013 --> 48:57.875 [SPEAKER_01]: He was really the most aggressive party to her murder. 48:57.895 --> 48:58.876 [SPEAKER_02]: And he was up for Pearl. 48:59.156 --> 49:01.478 [SPEAKER_01]: And he was, he got a life sentence, but he was up for Pearl. 49:01.518 --> 49:04.680 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm guessing, yeah, 20 or 20 years sentence. 49:05.281 --> 49:06.001 [SPEAKER_02]: And what am I guessing? 49:06.250 --> 49:27.401 [SPEAKER_01]: What did the Pearlboard say to this 40 year old man asking saying I can change I can change they said we're going to take a risk on you You deserve it you deserve this Well, I hate to burst your bubble, but the Pearlboard gets a good parole bell as they rejected Carl's bid for parole. 49:27.721 --> 49:27.961 [SPEAKER_01]: Good. 49:28.222 --> 49:28.402 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 49:29.345 --> 49:41.634 [SPEAKER_01]: They said that he minimized the role he played in Jessica's murder, countering his argument the board said that Carl quote actively participated in and escalated the violence while allowing and directing others to do the same. 49:42.314 --> 49:52.882 [SPEAKER_01]: While other family members described Carl as intimidating and controlling, they reported that during the attack on Jessica, Carl was giving directions, which included him saying, finished the job. 49:53.442 --> 50:00.708 [SPEAKER_01]: The board also disagreed with Carl's proclamation of growth, saying he had quote, not demonstrated maturity and rehabilitation. 50:01.709 --> 50:06.092 [SPEAKER_01]: Carl Aslop is still facing a life sentence, and he can revisit the Pearl Board in 2028. 50:06.192 --> 50:07.333 [SPEAKER_01]: Hopefully, he is denied again. 50:12.825 --> 50:16.448 [SPEAKER_01]: Last year, I told you guys about an off-highway game park safari. 50:16.568 --> 50:20.631 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, now I've got an update on the sentence, so here's a little little tiny recap. 50:20.932 --> 50:23.814 [SPEAKER_01]: And the news that we've taken it over and we're going to run it. 50:24.254 --> 50:28.358 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, it's in Bandin Oregon and it's the newest home of Ripley's believe it or not. 50:29.545 --> 50:38.298 [SPEAKER_01]: not true, banned in Oregon is located off the 101 on the coast, and it's about 120 miles south of Ripley's believe it or not in Newport. 50:38.779 --> 50:44.588 [SPEAKER_01]: So don't go to banned and look and for Ripley's got to go 120 miles south of Ripley's. 50:45.048 --> 50:47.029 [SPEAKER_02]: and don't go to Ripley's looking for Bandin. 50:47.429 --> 50:48.009 [SPEAKER_01]: Exactly. 50:48.269 --> 50:55.192 [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the biggest attractions in Bandin is not Ripley's, it used to be the walkthrough West Coast Game Park Safari. 50:55.892 --> 50:59.593 [SPEAKER_01]: Opening in 1968, the word Safari was being used quite loosely. 50:59.913 --> 51:03.435 [SPEAKER_01]: It was really more of a petting zoo slash captive breeding program. 51:03.855 --> 51:05.875 [SPEAKER_01]: It was the Tiger King of the West, if you will. 51:06.276 --> 51:12.598 [SPEAKER_01]: It was not accredited and like Joe Exotic, they also sold some of their big cats and other exotic animals. 51:13.438 --> 51:20.581 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of their more notorious features were emus, cougars, capibara's lions, tigers, and not bears, but snow leopards. 51:21.462 --> 51:21.682 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh! 51:21.722 --> 51:22.722 [SPEAKER_01]: But they did also have bears. 51:23.243 --> 51:23.983 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh. 51:24.123 --> 51:38.510 [SPEAKER_01]: In 2015 and 16, the Safari faced USDA violations, including but not limited to the mishandling of animals of all ages, shooting two bears, dead, sick, and starving animals on the property animals that had never been seen by a veterinarian, rat droppings, rotting food, and 51:43.092 --> 51:44.493 [SPEAKER_02]: We you've talked about this case. 51:44.533 --> 51:45.153 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, okay. 51:45.173 --> 51:46.114 [SPEAKER_02]: I do remember the title. 51:46.294 --> 51:46.614 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 51:46.634 --> 51:49.376 [SPEAKER_01]: We did it wasn't an episode, but it came up as news. 51:49.436 --> 51:53.658 [SPEAKER_01]: I think like last fall and I just wanted to share that it was happening. 51:53.678 --> 51:55.880 [SPEAKER_01]: So now I have an update to his sentence. 51:56.140 --> 51:58.121 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that was the only time I've ever heard of Bandin. 51:59.542 --> 52:00.763 [SPEAKER_02]: They might need to do some PR. 52:01.343 --> 52:02.664 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they need a new attraction. 52:02.684 --> 52:04.605 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, look into it. 52:05.192 --> 52:13.639 [SPEAKER_01]: The Safari's history of poor care and landing on Pita's hell-hole list of tourist attractions led to a raid in May of 2025. 52:14.179 --> 52:20.945 [SPEAKER_01]: After three days of raiding the business, Brian Scott Tenney, the 53-year-old owner of the park, was a reigned on August 25. 52:22.178 --> 52:40.393 [SPEAKER_01]: Among the 371 charges that Brian Tenney was facing were unlawful possession of wildlife, failure to meet requirements of care of wildlife, health and captivity, first and second degree animal neglect, racketeering, possession and delivery of drugs, possession of a machine gun and reckless endangerment. 52:41.332 --> 52:47.117 [SPEAKER_01]: Part of the reason he was facing over 300 charges was that each animal was represented. 52:47.697 --> 53:01.448 [SPEAKER_01]: Some of those animals included 9 porcupines, 5 camels, 4 lions, and over 100 sheep, which as far as a safari goes, like, oh, sheep, yeah, I just passed 300 of them on the road trying to get here. 53:03.000 --> 53:03.801 [SPEAKER_01]: not the most exotic. 53:04.181 --> 53:18.573 [SPEAKER_01]: The other reason, there were a lot of drugs and firearms, including 44 guns, almost 90 grams of math, 8 grams of cocaine, 1.6 million dollars in cash bonds, and proof of manufacturing and distributing drugs. 53:18.913 --> 53:22.156 [SPEAKER_02]: Did he leave it laid out so that the machine was on top of all of that? 53:22.256 --> 53:23.036 [SPEAKER_02]: I hope so. 53:23.096 --> 53:24.838 [SPEAKER_02]: That would be a nice tabloat to enter. 53:25.218 --> 53:29.060 [SPEAKER_01]: 322 animals were rescued from the park and relocated. 53:29.560 --> 53:32.941 [SPEAKER_01]: Three, unfortunately, did have to be utilized, including a camel. 53:33.882 --> 53:34.802 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't mean to brag. 53:34.902 --> 53:44.766 [SPEAKER_01]: And while I might not be in 100% agreement with them and maybe you aren't either, I think we can all agree that at its core, PETA, is trying to help animals. 53:45.166 --> 53:50.268 [SPEAKER_01]: At least that's my intent if I participate in protests that they've hold or other events that they're doing. 53:51.086 --> 54:01.873 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, amazingly, they heard the story that we did last year about this case and they were so nice that they actually reached out to thank us for covering it and bringing attention to these types of attractions. 54:02.213 --> 54:06.916 [SPEAKER_01]: They also sent a little thank you package with a mug and goodies for Lomas Rosie. 54:07.396 --> 54:09.837 [SPEAKER_01]: So I wanted to say thank you to Wes at PETA. 54:10.438 --> 54:13.880 [SPEAKER_01]: He also sent us a case to cover which we will be doing soon. 54:14.180 --> 54:15.381 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you again PETA. 54:15.461 --> 54:17.862 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm happy to help with the cause of animals. 54:19.163 --> 54:26.905 [SPEAKER_01]: On that note, like I said last time, it is so, so important to check into the history or the reviews of places that have animals. 54:27.525 --> 54:39.227 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you feel strongly like myself and you don't think animals should be kept in these kinds of places at all, so you don't even go, or maybe you like to go to places like this, and that's okay too, just do a little bit of homework. 54:39.427 --> 54:47.049 [SPEAKER_01]: Just make sure that your money isn't actually going into the drug trade, and that the animals are getting the proper care that they need. 54:47.329 --> 54:47.909 [SPEAKER_01]: and love. 54:47.929 --> 54:48.850 [SPEAKER_01]: That's right. 54:49.150 --> 54:50.090 [SPEAKER_01]: They need love. 54:51.251 --> 55:01.675 [SPEAKER_01]: So for the update in April of this year, Brian Tenney pleaded guilty to 43 charges, including neglecting the animals previously listed. 55:02.055 --> 55:14.000 [SPEAKER_01]: He also pleaded guilty to account of racketeering, unlawful possession of a machine gun, and a short-barled firearm or silencer, recklessly endangering another person, and methamphetamine delivery. 55:14.600 --> 55:20.543 [SPEAKER_01]: The drugs were their own thing, but the racketeering was related to the care or lack thereof for the animals. 55:21.023 --> 55:30.187 [SPEAKER_01]: This charge alone has him facing 20 years, and at the very least he will face seven years, and will be banned from possessing any animals for 15 years. 55:30.607 --> 55:35.629 [SPEAKER_01]: He will also have to pay for the animals care from when the state sees them and when he surrendered them. 55:36.389 --> 55:43.072 [SPEAKER_01]: But we won't know until July 20, what his final sentence will be, but fingers crossed that he will be gone for a long 55:43.272 --> 55:49.534 [SPEAKER_01]: time, and that he will be treated as well in his cage as he treated his cage animals. 55:50.974 --> 55:57.195 [SPEAKER_01]: In August, when we're back from our very short break, we will have the answer for what his sentence was, and I will let you guys know. 55:57.756 --> 56:03.137 [SPEAKER_02]: And we'll be streaming live from Ripley's, believe it or not, and down, down Portland. 56:03.277 --> 56:08.518 [SPEAKER_01]: And this point, I feel like we need to write them, be like, hi, we need to host a thing at your, we need to have a Ripley's 56:12.462 --> 56:17.087 [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's time for Josh's Library Coneer. 56:18.069 --> 56:19.050 [SPEAKER_01]: Josh, what you've been reading? 56:19.498 --> 56:24.440 [SPEAKER_02]: Right now, I'm chopping through an anthology of Ray Bradbury short stories. 56:24.460 --> 56:25.621 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a hundred of them in there. 56:26.101 --> 56:32.043 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a gigantic book, and it's very inspirational if you're a writer, because he's just such a great writer. 56:32.103 --> 56:34.705 [SPEAKER_02]: He's one of the best sci-fi fantasy. 56:35.825 --> 56:36.425 [SPEAKER_02]: He's great. 56:37.026 --> 56:38.606 [SPEAKER_02]: He's so cool. 56:38.726 --> 56:43.588 [SPEAKER_02]: He wrote Fahrenheit 451, and he has funny white hair and glasses. 56:44.069 --> 56:45.769 [SPEAKER_02]: But his short stories are classics, 56:47.190 --> 56:47.911 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how to say it. 56:47.991 --> 56:51.093 [SPEAKER_02]: He's an American legend, writer man. 56:51.133 --> 56:51.974 [SPEAKER_02]: He's one of the best. 56:51.994 --> 56:53.175 [SPEAKER_02]: Damn it. 56:53.235 --> 56:56.838 [SPEAKER_02]: Reading his short, short fiction is really satisfying. 56:57.158 --> 56:57.899 [SPEAKER_01]: That's excellent. 56:58.259 --> 57:01.602 [SPEAKER_02]: And you also just finished Tommy Knuckles by Stephen King. 57:01.882 --> 57:04.544 [SPEAKER_02]: I did just finish that huge, another huge book. 57:04.584 --> 57:11.550 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm in a huge book period in my life where the books have to be as tall as a tall stack of flapjacks. 57:13.531 --> 57:16.852 [SPEAKER_02]: Tommy Knockers is one of the one of the bad Stephen King books. 57:17.513 --> 57:21.855 [SPEAKER_02]: I'd always heard that for some reason I had to find out if that was true when it was. 57:21.975 --> 57:23.275 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is your first reading of it. 57:23.295 --> 57:24.776 [SPEAKER_02]: First reading a Tommy Knockers ever. 57:24.936 --> 57:26.517 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and it's a famously bad one. 57:26.677 --> 57:27.357 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, they turned it. 57:27.377 --> 57:31.218 [SPEAKER_02]: They adapted it into a TV series that was bad and it's he admits that it was bad. 57:31.339 --> 57:34.200 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it was when he was still using sub substances. 57:34.220 --> 57:35.420 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know he was he was a drinker. 57:36.040 --> 57:38.381 [SPEAKER_02]: But it might have been one that he kind of can't remember writing or something. 57:38.401 --> 57:39.202 [SPEAKER_02]: There's just some sort of 57:39.742 --> 57:43.425 [SPEAKER_02]: really off by it with it and it doesn't have any of the heart. 57:43.825 --> 57:47.908 [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like Stephen King like someone else wrote a Stephen King book. 57:48.389 --> 57:52.672 [SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't feel like him and it was super long and it just kind of was like, oh, it's over. 57:52.692 --> 57:53.873 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. 57:54.093 --> 57:55.574 [SPEAKER_02]: That guy died and we're done. 57:55.794 --> 57:56.094 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 57:57.515 --> 58:00.578 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't recommend unless you are just a completeist. 58:01.558 --> 58:02.099 [SPEAKER_02]: It was stinky. 58:02.499 --> 58:05.600 [SPEAKER_01]: So Ray Bradbury stories, yes, Tommy Knockers. 58:05.780 --> 58:06.060 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 58:06.160 --> 58:06.740 [SPEAKER_01]: Heck no. 58:06.940 --> 58:12.942 [SPEAKER_01]: And speaking of huge novels and Stephen King, King Sorrow, written by his son. 58:13.022 --> 58:18.323 [SPEAKER_02]: It is just written by Joe Hill who did notes for ought to, and the fireman, heart shaped box. 58:18.643 --> 58:21.464 [SPEAKER_02]: He's just such an excellent writer, lock and key the comic series, and 58:22.104 --> 58:34.454 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's about a bunch of college student age people who are one of them gets into a horrible situation and they try to get out of it by conjuring a dragon from the ether and they do. 58:34.694 --> 58:39.118 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's well, they're basically curs themselves to deal with a dragon every year. 58:39.298 --> 58:42.821 [SPEAKER_02]: It's great and scary and I just love his style. 58:42.941 --> 58:45.303 [SPEAKER_02]: He's kind of like Stephen King, but I don't know. 58:45.423 --> 58:46.584 [SPEAKER_02]: A little more grown-up or something. 58:47.324 --> 58:52.948 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm about 400 pages through an 800 plus page book and a matter of days you didn't say. 58:53.208 --> 58:53.869 [SPEAKER_02]: It's that good. 58:53.909 --> 58:56.590 [SPEAKER_02]: I've just chewed through 400 pages of this book. 58:56.630 --> 58:57.611 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so good. 58:57.891 --> 58:58.512 [SPEAKER_02]: So compelling. 58:58.732 --> 58:59.272 [SPEAKER_02]: So fun. 58:59.612 --> 58:59.933 [SPEAKER_02]: Funny. 59:00.453 --> 59:01.194 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a dragon. 59:01.394 --> 59:01.754 [SPEAKER_02]: It's great. 59:02.920 --> 59:03.801 [SPEAKER_02]: Go Hill, baby. 59:04.161 --> 59:04.922 [SPEAKER_01]: That's excellent. 59:04.942 --> 59:05.382 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 59:05.542 --> 59:06.363 [SPEAKER_01]: I love to read. 59:06.663 --> 59:07.164 [SPEAKER_01]: You do. 59:07.344 --> 59:10.106 [SPEAKER_01]: And our listeners love to hear about your readings. 59:10.226 --> 59:12.168 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for, I think so. 59:12.268 --> 59:12.549 [SPEAKER_01]: OK. 59:13.149 --> 59:18.434 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you for another stop at Josh's library corner. 59:18.454 --> 59:22.718 [SPEAKER_01]: Now it's time for hot streamers. 59:36.713 --> 59:48.957 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to kick off hot streamers letting you guys know that the episodes that I worked on of the television program hashtag homicide, which has spelled out not an actual hashtag or for old folks. 59:49.302 --> 59:53.166 [SPEAKER_01]: Pound sign, they are now available on YouTube. 59:53.206 --> 59:58.372 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you don't have access to film rise or the other streamers it was on, you can watch for free on YouTube. 59:58.812 --> 01:00:01.435 [SPEAKER_01]: So you can look up hashtag homicides spelled out. 01:00:02.036 --> 01:00:11.506 [SPEAKER_01]: And the first one is Daisy, Dala, O, Daisy, like the flower, DE, next word, L-A, and then O, Daisy, Dala, O. 01:00:11.806 --> 01:00:27.637 [SPEAKER_01]: So you can watch that episode, and then you can also watch the episode about the podcasters Sorry, Sadigi, which we covered on this show, but we did an episode with hashtag homicide as well, and you can look up podcaster and husband hunted by crazed fan hashtag homicide. 01:00:27.717 --> 01:00:29.058 [SPEAKER_01]: And those are the two episodes. 01:00:29.598 --> 01:00:31.680 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, that I worked on and provided commentary for. 01:00:31.980 --> 01:00:38.805 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a ton of episodes, film rise, folks are great to work with, and they work with the families and make sure that the stories are being told. 01:00:39.705 --> 01:00:42.327 [SPEAKER_01]: correctly and focusing on the victim. 01:00:43.027 --> 01:00:44.728 [SPEAKER_01]: So go check those out. 01:00:45.949 --> 01:00:52.673 [SPEAKER_01]: After that we've got on Netflix, Josh, you haven't watched this yet, but I think you should the crash, which was... 01:00:54.288 --> 01:00:56.270 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't even know if I have words for it. 01:00:56.670 --> 01:01:02.236 [SPEAKER_01]: Y'all some words that me listeners, upsetting, frustrating, bizarre, harrowing. 01:01:02.696 --> 01:01:09.483 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just upsetting, I think, is maybe the key word for anyone that hasn't watched it. 01:01:09.603 --> 01:01:14.828 [SPEAKER_01]: It's about a car crash that happens and people involved in it die, but the driver doesn't. 01:01:15.229 --> 01:01:15.509 [SPEAKER_01]: And she, 01:01:16.710 --> 01:01:18.631 [SPEAKER_01]: claims to not have any memory of it. 01:01:19.011 --> 01:01:25.132 [SPEAKER_01]: And so you watch it and think, oh my gosh, these kids were like partying and then had this horrible accident, Taylor's oldest time. 01:01:26.032 --> 01:01:29.993 [SPEAKER_01]: And as they start to look at things, they go, wait a minute, that doesn't line up. 01:01:30.033 --> 01:01:30.794 [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't line up. 01:01:30.854 --> 01:01:31.654 [SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't line up. 01:01:32.034 --> 01:01:36.895 [SPEAKER_01]: These guys were maybe trying to save their own lives from this woman who was driving this way. 01:01:36.935 --> 01:01:39.236 [SPEAKER_01]: And then the interview with her parents is 01:01:40.796 --> 01:01:49.580 [SPEAKER_01]: Baffling and her interview from prison is already being picked apart by people who were in prison with her and she's like talking to her lawyer. 01:01:49.680 --> 01:01:53.102 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just a mess, so I highly suggest it. 01:01:53.522 --> 01:02:00.946 [SPEAKER_01]: Also on Netflix, one of our favorite shows, Worst X Ever, the second season has come out just a handful of episodes. 01:02:02.386 --> 01:02:03.947 [SPEAKER_01]: And again, I'm at a loss for words. 01:02:03.987 --> 01:02:04.948 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so well made. 01:02:05.008 --> 01:02:07.028 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that the recreations are animated. 01:02:07.129 --> 01:02:08.329 [SPEAKER_01]: It feels more real that way. 01:02:10.526 --> 01:02:14.509 [SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like the animations, the recreations aren't maybe violent either. 01:02:14.529 --> 01:02:15.110 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 01:02:15.130 --> 01:02:15.931 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think they show violence. 01:02:15.951 --> 01:02:20.755 [SPEAKER_01]: And they show so much really incredible emotion in the eyes, especially. 01:02:21.816 --> 01:02:23.697 [SPEAKER_01]: And these people are just telling these stories. 01:02:24.018 --> 01:02:29.562 [SPEAKER_01]: And sadly, they're really important for people to watch because you think, oh, well, we met online. 01:02:29.582 --> 01:02:31.224 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, we clicked and it seemed great. 01:02:32.717 --> 01:02:55.841 [SPEAKER_01]: Then I came home from work and he moved into my house, you know, just stuff that when you're in it you don't realize how quote unquote crazy it is because you're just living your life and like well I'm with this guy and I don't know this seems off but maybe it's okay and from afar we can look and go oh my god what are you thinking but in that moment we've all been there going whoa I got out of that when I maybe shouldn't have. 01:02:56.176 --> 01:03:01.920 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, hanging a lot on love and then the slow realization that the person is kind of a long story. 01:03:01.940 --> 01:03:04.002 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that was it's an excellent show. 01:03:04.122 --> 01:03:04.322 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 01:03:05.443 --> 01:03:11.467 [SPEAKER_01]: Maybe the best show on television right now widows bay on Apple. 01:03:12.088 --> 01:03:18.793 [SPEAKER_02]: I love it so much and I wish there was more and it feels like something that was made truly just for me. 01:03:19.253 --> 01:03:20.714 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I'm sure you feel that way too. 01:03:20.894 --> 01:03:22.035 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it just feels like 01:03:23.336 --> 01:03:24.937 [SPEAKER_01]: it is hilarious. 01:03:25.237 --> 01:03:27.478 [SPEAKER_01]: First and foremost, it's hilarious. 01:03:27.498 --> 01:03:28.038 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a comedy. 01:03:28.118 --> 01:03:28.838 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a comedy. 01:03:29.258 --> 01:03:30.679 [SPEAKER_02]: Scary, legitimately. 01:03:30.759 --> 01:03:31.299 [SPEAKER_01]: So scary. 01:03:31.319 --> 01:03:38.982 [SPEAKER_01]: It's my favorite kind of fear because it's not the jump scares and it's not the what it's tension and it's the what's going on. 01:03:39.202 --> 01:03:39.742 [SPEAKER_01]: What is that? 01:03:39.782 --> 01:03:42.343 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that something to be scared of or is that somebody I know? 01:03:42.363 --> 01:03:46.125 [SPEAKER_02]: I would say it does the the expected in an unexpected way. 01:03:46.405 --> 01:03:53.029 [SPEAKER_02]: where there are a lot of tropes in it, but they find a way to turn them in a way that's really clever and refreshing and hilarious. 01:03:53.129 --> 01:03:54.429 [SPEAKER_02]: Every time it's just so funny. 01:03:54.670 --> 01:03:57.871 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've compared it to so many things, but it's so not those things. 01:03:58.772 --> 01:04:06.356 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yes, there are elements of jaws of American horse story of midnight mass, but never not original. 01:04:06.856 --> 01:04:07.777 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just so funny. 01:04:07.797 --> 01:04:08.637 [SPEAKER_01]: The acting is great. 01:04:08.657 --> 01:04:09.778 [SPEAKER_01]: The writing is incredible. 01:04:10.258 --> 01:04:13.360 [SPEAKER_01]: Steven Rude, Matthew, how do you say, say, rice, rice? 01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:30.738 [SPEAKER_01]: my parents love it and our obsessed with it so it's for everybody I mean not kids but and it's got Steven Root in it for God's sake did you say that I did but it's worth saying again double root Patricia I don't know her the actual yeah Patricia but she is my favorite we love being 01:04:32.093 --> 01:04:34.895 [SPEAKER_01]: Speaking of things, we love, love overboard. 01:04:34.915 --> 01:04:38.898 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no, you mean love overboard. 01:04:38.918 --> 01:04:40.499 [SPEAKER_01]: Love overboard. 01:04:41.220 --> 01:04:45.723 [SPEAKER_02]: That is one of the hottest streamers to ever stream hot into my eyes. 01:04:46.003 --> 01:04:46.944 [SPEAKER_02]: I love it so much. 01:04:47.064 --> 01:04:49.125 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not true crime related, but come on. 01:04:49.186 --> 01:04:51.307 [SPEAKER_01]: Who we're not going to do true crime all the time. 01:04:51.407 --> 01:04:52.608 [SPEAKER_01]: Crimes against the heart. 01:04:53.148 --> 01:04:54.810 [SPEAKER_01]: David. 01:05:00.517 --> 01:05:05.684 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's true, and sometimes you just need some trash reality TV and nothing is better. 01:05:05.804 --> 01:05:09.228 [SPEAKER_02]: Why is it sometimes this the hot plate of garbage is what you need? 01:05:09.248 --> 01:05:10.129 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 01:05:10.149 --> 01:05:11.030 [SPEAKER_02]: It feels so good. 01:05:11.050 --> 01:05:15.676 [SPEAKER_02]: I was on the side of these people, I feel even though they were, you know, vapid show contestants. 01:05:15.696 --> 01:05:17.058 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, they're all pretty like, 01:05:17.338 --> 01:05:21.859 [SPEAKER_01]: You kind of end up rooting for them and then not rooting for them and then like, what are you doing? 01:05:21.879 --> 01:05:22.619 [SPEAKER_01]: You guys are nuts. 01:05:22.639 --> 01:05:23.939 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's very strange. 01:05:23.959 --> 01:05:28.420 [SPEAKER_01]: Gabby from Bachelor Nation is the host and she's the funniest person on earth. 01:05:29.440 --> 01:05:34.421 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like what we all wanted reality shows to be when we were in high school and starting out. 01:05:34.441 --> 01:05:38.142 [SPEAKER_01]: We're like, well, we know they're having sex just like be normal or swear. 01:05:38.182 --> 01:05:38.582 [SPEAKER_01]: We know you're 01:05:45.123 --> 01:05:51.266 [SPEAKER_01]: Stuff they talk about is like, oh, yeah, we were hooking up, and you're just like, oh, now that's on TV. 01:05:51.286 --> 01:05:52.166 [SPEAKER_01]: Now that's on Disney. 01:05:53.167 --> 01:05:54.027 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, shithead. 01:05:54.047 --> 01:05:55.448 [SPEAKER_03]: What's up, assholes? 01:05:56.288 --> 01:06:00.971 [SPEAKER_02]: I hear about his pocket because somebody's going overboard. 01:06:01.071 --> 01:06:04.872 [SPEAKER_01]: And it sounds like she'd be annoying, but it's like she's mocking them to their face or something. 01:06:04.992 --> 01:06:11.395 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I think that that really should be sort of like the the first point for a host of a reality 01:06:15.597 --> 01:06:17.458 [SPEAKER_02]: The contestants make them walk a plank. 01:06:17.478 --> 01:06:18.419 [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't even get to that point. 01:06:18.439 --> 01:06:19.439 [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't even talk about the play. 01:06:19.459 --> 01:06:21.220 [SPEAKER_02]: They walk a plank at the end of the episode. 01:06:21.320 --> 01:06:22.300 [SPEAKER_02]: It's wonderful. 01:06:22.420 --> 01:06:23.741 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a perfect summer viewing. 01:06:23.781 --> 01:06:25.602 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you need a little bit of trash in your life. 01:06:26.102 --> 01:06:26.502 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah. 01:06:26.622 --> 01:06:27.343 [SPEAKER_02]: Love it for boredom. 01:06:27.663 --> 01:06:27.943 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm. 01:06:28.655 --> 01:06:31.837 [SPEAKER_01]: If you've watched love overboard, please just email us so we can go about it. 01:06:31.857 --> 01:06:33.138 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Gabby about it. 01:06:33.178 --> 01:06:34.038 [SPEAKER_01]: Gabby about it. 01:06:34.178 --> 01:06:35.139 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell us your favorite. 01:06:35.459 --> 01:06:40.962 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell us how you were dying at that Planck ceremony with David screaming at the television. 01:06:41.162 --> 01:06:45.085 [SPEAKER_02]: And how Lila was the youngest of all and the smartest, the wisest of all. 01:06:45.125 --> 01:06:48.927 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, I loved her because she was saying it how it was and everyone's like, you're allowed. 01:06:48.967 --> 01:06:49.667 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't like you. 01:06:49.727 --> 01:06:51.448 [SPEAKER_01]: And she's like, sorry that I'm speaking the truth. 01:06:51.468 --> 01:06:52.649 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, that's right girl. 01:06:53.409 --> 01:06:54.390 [SPEAKER_01]: That's how you weed them out. 01:06:54.790 --> 01:06:57.137 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, she was shouting for the entire harbour to hear her. 01:06:57.177 --> 01:06:58.520 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I like that. 01:06:58.641 --> 01:06:59.022 [SPEAKER_02]: I did too. 01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:11.210 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have links on our blog to the books from Josh's library corner and trailers for all of the programs we discussed here today, but for now, that is it for the update. 01:07:11.490 --> 01:07:13.692 [SPEAKER_01]: So in case you spaced out, I can't blame you. 01:07:14.133 --> 01:07:16.935 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, we're going to take a very short little summer break. 01:07:17.296 --> 01:07:21.980 [SPEAKER_01]: We will be back in July with an update and then we will let you know our August return date. 01:07:22.180 --> 01:07:24.742 [SPEAKER_01]: At that time, I promised just a couple of weeks. 01:07:25.042 --> 01:07:25.343 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 01:07:25.723 --> 01:07:27.044 [SPEAKER_02]: We're not messing around this time. 01:07:27.064 --> 01:07:28.185 [SPEAKER_01]: We're not messing around. 01:07:28.265 --> 01:07:34.689 [SPEAKER_01]: This gives, it also gives me time because I've got interviews I want to do and people I'm trying to meet up with and it's really hard when it's back to back to back. 01:07:35.069 --> 01:07:36.390 [SPEAKER_01]: So this also gives me time to that. 01:07:36.430 --> 01:07:40.092 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's even better episodes guys, you know, you know, let it cook a little bit. 01:07:40.212 --> 01:07:41.073 [SPEAKER_02]: Let us have a summer. 01:07:41.093 --> 01:07:42.054 [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have a summer. 01:07:42.134 --> 01:07:43.795 [SPEAKER_02]: We haven't earned it, but we're going to take it. 01:07:46.693 --> 01:07:47.774 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, so that's it for us. 01:07:47.854 --> 01:07:54.000 [SPEAKER_01]: We love you guys, stay safe in the heat, and the water, and the existence of being a human. 01:07:55.041 --> 01:07:56.582 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll speak at you in July. 01:07:57.623 --> 01:07:58.304 [SPEAKER_01]: Great sign off. 01:07:58.984 --> 01:07:59.405 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 01:08:06.133 --> 01:08:10.919 [SPEAKER_02]: I think the bird is maybe named Judy. 01:08:10.939 --> 01:08:12.341 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I like that. 01:08:12.921 --> 01:08:15.845 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I didn't realize she was so classy, but you spend a lot more time with her. 01:08:15.865 --> 01:08:16.145 [SPEAKER_02]: I do. 01:08:16.165 --> 01:08:19.810 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought Judy, and then I think it's for Judy gemstone. 01:08:21.071 --> 01:08:21.832 [SPEAKER_01]: The bird is Judy. 01:08:21.852 --> 01:08:22.353 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that. 01:08:22.593 --> 01:08:24.155 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for that update and report. 01:08:24.796 --> 01:08:25.477 [SPEAKER_01]: Bird news. 01:08:26.785 --> 01:08:28.546 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, are you okay with her? 01:08:28.746 --> 01:08:29.067 [SPEAKER_01]: So thank you. 01:08:29.087 --> 01:08:30.067 [SPEAKER_01]: You fall off a little cliff. 01:08:30.187 --> 01:08:35.511 [SPEAKER_02]: That's grab in the cord for my charger and I put my hand through a series of spider webs. 01:08:36.011 --> 01:08:36.292 [SPEAKER_02]: Ew. 01:08:36.412 --> 01:08:39.554 [SPEAKER_02]: Each one was copyer than the last. 01:08:39.654 --> 01:08:40.494 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God. 01:08:40.915 --> 01:08:41.795 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh my God. 01:08:41.855 --> 01:08:42.476 [SPEAKER_03]: What comes? 01:08:43.596 --> 01:08:44.237 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I did it wrong. 01:08:44.577 --> 01:08:44.737 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 01:08:45.318 --> 01:08:45.458 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh. 01:08:46.999 --> 01:08:47.159 [UNKNOWN]: Uh. 01:08:48.160 --> 01:08:48.260 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh. 01:08:48.340 --> 01:08:48.620 [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm. 01:08:49.881 --> 01:08:50.381 [SPEAKER_00]: Jesus. 01:08:52.062 --> 01:08:52.923 [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody relax. 01:08:54.469 --> 01:08:57.510 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I was trying to think of another, another thing to anger people. 01:08:57.570 --> 01:09:04.494 [SPEAKER_02]: And I like to think of was that, um, the ghosts of all the shrimp you've ever eaten are following you around. 01:09:08.015 --> 01:09:08.636 [SPEAKER_02]: What a curse. 01:09:08.676 --> 01:09:09.716 [SPEAKER_01]: That's not rage bait. 01:09:09.756 --> 01:09:10.997 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just insanity. 01:09:12.137 --> 01:09:20.421 [SPEAKER_01]: Rage bait is, um, we're going to Idaho next week for a wedding, which is so exciting to see even more of the Pacific Northwest. 01:09:22.002 --> 01:09:23.063 [SPEAKER_01]: That will upset people. 01:09:24.442 --> 01:09:44.187 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no 01:09:45.358 --> 01:09:46.999 [SPEAKER_01]: That's my new favorite sound in my head. 01:09:48.260 --> 01:09:50.982 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, Furgie's National Anthem. 01:09:52.083 --> 01:09:53.524 [SPEAKER_01]: Just you've been outstretched. 01:09:53.544 --> 01:09:55.165 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, kidding, that'll always burn. 01:09:56.226 --> 01:09:57.407 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing some Ripley's ripping. 01:09:58.588 --> 01:09:59.709 [SPEAKER_01]: The classic Ripley's rip. 01:10:01.390 --> 01:10:03.672 [SPEAKER_02]: Lake Oswego, that's where Ripley's believe it or not is. 01:10:03.832 --> 01:10:05.253 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that location. 01:10:05.373 --> 01:10:06.794 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, so swanky. 01:10:08.375 --> 01:10:09.396 [SPEAKER_02]: So unpretentious. 01:10:11.888 --> 01:10:14.129 [SPEAKER_02]: You can't swim in our lake, poor people. 01:10:14.149 --> 01:10:16.831 [SPEAKER_01]: It's our lake. 01:10:16.911 --> 01:10:17.791 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't even look at it. 01:10:18.912 --> 01:10:19.953 [SPEAKER_02]: Old bat nuts. 01:10:21.894 --> 01:10:22.714 [SPEAKER_02]: The cool cousins. 01:10:22.774 --> 01:10:23.154 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 01:10:24.315 --> 01:10:25.316 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's literally. 01:10:25.336 --> 01:10:27.077 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know why I said, yeah, as if I have one. 01:10:29.813 --> 01:10:46.239 [SPEAKER_01]: It is unfortunately on Disney, who knew you can maybe find ways around that if you're clever with internet things and Oh, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, 01:10:56.247 --> 01:10:57.508 [UNKNOWN]: Thank you.