[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the intentional fatherhood podcast where we explore what it means to live on purpose as a father and how legacy starts at home.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Justin Whitmorely, and I'm Brooke Moser, we'll be your hosts, and we desire to bring biblical hope and practical hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to season three of the intentional fatherhood podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing a whole season on work, vocation, calling the role of a father at work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm having so much fun because work is such cash.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one of my favorite things in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you listener are the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have a deep,
[SPEAKER_00]: feeling that you need work in your life and you have deep questions like us about how it relates to your family, how it relates to your spiritual life.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to go deep in this episode about how it relates to the spiritual life by talking about the spiritual disciplines that surround and inform the life of work.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is going to be before you go to work after you come home for
[SPEAKER_00]: at work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, this is part of a series.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've been talking about vocation all season.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is episode seven.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you better be tracking with this season.
[SPEAKER_01]: How would you track?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, my first, I was going to, I want to tell you, I was also wondering, do you think you like this season so much, because you're workaholic or maybe you did?
[SPEAKER_01]: Got me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Zing is called friendship everyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: My love is might be out of order.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, how we do that is just by rating, subscribing, leaving a comment.
[SPEAKER_01]: That helps us so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: You guys know this.
[SPEAKER_01]: We say it every time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it we say it every time because it actually matters that much.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it helps get the word out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So share this with a group.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can, we encourage that you listen to this, listen in a group or you can, or you know, get with a group after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know a lot of guys will listen to it on their own.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then get together in process.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a really great way to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't do life, fatherhood, or anything without community.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's huge gift.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then lastly, when you leave a comment and when you share it with friends, if this has been impactful, that is one of the deepest ways you help us get the word out and help other fathers and it also keeps you up to date with when we announce things whether that's merge, whether that's events and so please make sure that you're aware of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how they stay connected.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I'm excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: This episode, particularly, I know that you and I both do a lot of work around individually before we ever connected and became friends.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was actually just shared passions of how I know we've processed the world and these things have been really helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I know we're excited to jump into this and really the spiritual disciplines and some of the hidden life of a father.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what kind of things need to be going on and to say that again.
[SPEAKER_01]: the hidden life of a father and why and really why your spiritual disciplines matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like hidden life of a father.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're tracking with this season and I hope you are, we spent the first three episodes talking about why work is good, a theological framework for work, calling how you form a calling, not just find it.
[SPEAKER_00]: ambition in besetting sense, how do you have great hopes for your work, but a great humility, is you who water bottle emphasizing, how do you have a great hope for your work and also great humility?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that stuff is a little bit more world view oriented, a little bit more, how do you think about it, what's the theological framework?
[SPEAKER_00]: So important, but as you said, bro,
[SPEAKER_00]: a lot of my writing, a lot of your work through intentional, is on formation.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do we live and pattern the kind of life that takes the worldview, the education and through formation turns it into a life that actually follows Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we don't just know about him in our heads, but we live out that calling.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of this, I love how you put it.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of this is the hidden life of a father.
[SPEAKER_01]: unless you're talking about it on a podcast obviously.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, but we don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're not the experts, but let me just connect it to vocation connected just to say, you know, as we're talking about vocation, if you don't have a hidden life, a life that restores the soul, whatever calling you have, whatever vocation you're in, whatever responsibilities you have.
[SPEAKER_01]: You won't be able to live it out and we know that full well from our own lives and experiences and not doing it well But also because that is how God designed you he designed the world rhythms of rest are really important And so but rhythms of pouring into and knowing what that looks like and so this episode is gonna be how do you like what is the hidden life of a father with spiritual disciplines and what are some of the things?
[SPEAKER_01]: That our fatherhood specific disciplines or practices that are going to actually aid you as a parent, but especially as a father like I want to say this is these are fatherhood specific and for our sisters listening of course it will apply, but We obviously understandably are going to gear this towards the men because we and that's where we need a lot of help.
[SPEAKER_00]: So can I be so bold as to start us with a poem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I ask a question?
[SPEAKER_01]: Who wrote the poem?
[SPEAKER_00]: Robert
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I thought you wrote the poem.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was joking.
[SPEAKER_01]: You were oh you think I was gonna read my own poetry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I wish.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not good at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's too bold even for my taste.
[SPEAKER_00]: So really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably most of you don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of you might.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love poetry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in English major.
[SPEAKER_00]: My first attempts at writing through my 20s were mostly poetry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Really.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually want to come back to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully in later life and continue to write poetry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Huge part of my life because.
[SPEAKER_00]: poetry is a beautiful use of language.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's trying to pack the most meaning into the fewest words.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And thus just as an art form and particularly, I actually commend this to all of you listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Often poetry for this stage of fatherhood is sometimes the only thing that you can manage in a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I always keep poems near my desk because most of my days aren't conducive right now to reading a long novel, though I love fiction.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you can always pick up a poem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's actually a great line.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't get the news from poetry, but men die daily for lack of what is found there.
[SPEAKER_01]: What, what, is that the, is that the poem?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Auden.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Auden.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think it's Auden.
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody can fact check me.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's in a poem.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the line is, you can't get the poetry from the newspaper, but men die daily for lack of what is found there.
[SPEAKER_00]: As in, even then, that was a century ago,
[SPEAKER_00]: It then, as now, people are just so in tune to what's happening today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your inbox, current events, Twitter, the news, but we die daily from knowing too much about what's happening and not thinking enough about what it means, poetry is a way to get you thinking about what it means.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's a beautiful poem.
[SPEAKER_00]: by Robert Hayden is called those winter Sundays and you'll you'll understand immediately why this is tied to the hidden life of a father of spiritual disciplines and work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do it already.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those winter Sundays.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sundays to my father got up early and put his clothes on in the blue black cold.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then with cracked hands that ached from labor in the weekday weather
[SPEAKER_00]: no one ever thanked him, no one ever thanked him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd wake and hear the cold splintering breaking when the rooms were warm, he'd call and slowly I would rise and dress, fearing the chronic angers of that house, speaking indifferently to him, he who had driven out the
[SPEAKER_00]: What did I know?
[SPEAKER_00]: What did I know of love's austere and lonely offices?
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't expect to get emotional or you know, I encounter this poem two decades ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's struck me the first time reading it as a 20 something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This idea of the father rising before the family and doing the work that warms as children prepares them, this is the I'm getting ready for church, you know, he polishes their shoes and the indifference of a child.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a speaking indifferently to him who had driven out the cold and polished my good shoes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just that last line, what did I know, what did I know of loves lonely and austere offices?
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this image of a child now a man, you know, writing and realizing the hidden life his father had that was for love of loves lonely and austere offices.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you are doing it right, you're going to have a hidden life.
[SPEAKER_00]: of kind of lonely and serious offices that are hidden from the rest of your family, but they are in support of this big vision we talked about in episode one of the season that your work is for love, for love, of your children, for love, of your wife, for love, of your family, for love, of your neighbors, for love, of God.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this matters in the workplace, it matters in your family, that you keep a set of patterns in service to other other people, these lonely and all-steer offices.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree for us is a great poem and I'm not much to naturally repot I meaning like I'm just not naturally I don't naturally ever default to poetry, but I just think it's because I've never really gotten into it So you have to turn me on to some of those like yeah, I think ones that you love I'll turn you on I love
[SPEAKER_01]: jokes we've been talking a lot for lots of days.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's important when we talk about the hidden life of a father.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not talking about you withdrawing from life to like escape the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually to confront what's controlling you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this isn't about escapeism.
[SPEAKER_01]: This isn't about you pulling away and just pretending the world isn't happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about you stepping back.
[SPEAKER_01]: and to identify what's controlling you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas your ego operating system with your family, with your work, with everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you don't have time to slow down and calm down and get in touch with what's going on, that this will unravel you in every way.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ron Rullhizer.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, could you believe we got him on the show?
[SPEAKER_01]: What an amazing way to describe.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I appreciate that, brother.
[SPEAKER_01]: But one of my favorite quotes that he has around prayer,
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't pray, you will either be habitually depressed or obsessed with your own ego.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just as a reminder, like prayer rescenters you, it gets you center again, it gets you on the right path, the right page as one example.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we just need to talk about what are these practices?
[SPEAKER_01]: What are essential really, truly, for fatherhood?
[SPEAKER_01]: and what are the things to focus on because, again, as we've talked about, you only have so much time, you also have a calling, you also have ambition, got the ambition, hopefully.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how do we fit all of this in in a way that feels accurate, but isn't actually taking away from what really matters?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so,
[SPEAKER_00]: We have to figure that out and, um, I really like how you put that, um, your confronting what controls you, yeah, in spiritual disciplines, because you, you know, whether you know it or not, there's, there are things that are mastering you.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are work rhythms, particularly work obligations that are holding puppet strings on your emotional state and part of surrounding your work and intertwining your work with spiritual disciplines is exactly what you said it's stepping back to pray stepping back to read the scriptures stepping back to reflect.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that you can see what has a hold of me so many of us talk about, oh, don't put your identity in your work right and literally every person listening to this podcast agrees with that statement
[SPEAKER_00]: no one ever wanted that I know was like you know what I want to do in this next season.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to put my identity and work.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one's ever said it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But almost everybody does it because they have a hidden life of other practices.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like other work rhythms that are dominating them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they haven't stepped back to confront what controls them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I never heard you say that but I just love that way putting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can we just talk about really fast?
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to say really briefly just a name because naming is really helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: What disciplines actually do in a man, like when a man actually just, this is a quick example.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like here's what happens once here.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is just something I've been working on for a little bit, but what happens when you actually have disciplines?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I was thinking through, I know I have disciplines, I know what, but I was asking the deep, because why always helps me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it really does to what?
[SPEAKER_01]: What?
[SPEAKER_01]: What actually happens in you when you have a set of disciplines, even if they are, even the first step is pretty mellow.
[SPEAKER_01]: And maybe that's prayer, maybe that's exercise rhythm.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a holistic thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: They reorder your loves.
[SPEAKER_01]: They get your love in proper order so that you're able to like love God, love family, put work in its proper place.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're adjusted.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not like all over the place where I need to ego and money.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in that to be fine, you're satisfied with the things of God and family.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, everybody wants to go read a gustan.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just got to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't know a gustan, if you know the concept of order loves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You just made a huge claim and I love it so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, most of us don't necessarily love the wrong things.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we love them in the wrong order.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually pray for my kids regularly.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have this body blessing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of you have heard it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to mention it all now, but I pray it ends.
[SPEAKER_00]: It blesses each part of their body.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it ends.
[SPEAKER_00]: I put my hand on their heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I say, may they love you and all that you have made in the right order.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should love your job.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you should love sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should love God.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, these things have an order though, like which do you love and what order?
[SPEAKER_00]: So does this one good order your loves?
[SPEAKER_00]: That would do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they expose what's driving you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the second part.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when you have that awareness of what's actually your motivation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when you slow down enough disciplines help expose like is this control is this fear?
[SPEAKER_01]: they create space for God to interrupt your patterns.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're like driving driving driving driving driving good, excellent.
[SPEAKER_01]: It slows you down enough before you potentially get too far down the wrong road.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then lastly, and there's more of course, but they form you, they form who you are becoming as a father.
[SPEAKER_01]: they help you better said they help you become who you are meant to be as a father.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's what disciplines do.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many, there's the list could be extensively longer, but there are so many good things that happen when we slow down and have these disciplines.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I just want to, let's actually get into this.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are some of the things just in
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a list.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a list.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have lists together overlapping for sure, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what are some of the disciplines for you that you just find as essential in this in life, but also as a father?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got three.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you've got more.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to use my brief.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to use my first one that was just set up the theory here for spiritual disciplines and work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my first one is going to be totally unsurprising.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's so more important than you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm going to say, but it's way more important than you think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is to begin your day in prayer and the scriptures.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
[SPEAKER_00]: I told this story in season one, I can't remember what episode if you haven't heard season one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I strongly recommend you go back and you work your way through it because it's the pattern of this podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: We set out eight tensions of fatherhood, eight areas that make up why a father's life and why the tension of those areas make fatherhood feel as hard as it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was in the spiritual disciplines episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: I talked about scripture before phone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, if you have read any of my books, I mentioned this in every single book and if you've ever heard me speak, I almost always share this story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it is seriously so at the foundation of what it means to be a father.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when I set out to become a lawyer, I had done three years of law school.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I became a lawyer working in a big law firm, did quite well in law school, ended up in an international law firm, doing mergers and acquisitions international transactional work.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I worked with the London Office quite often.
[SPEAKER_00]: London is six hours ahead of us here in Richmond, Virginia.
[SPEAKER_00]: So every day I would wake up to six hours of the partners in London telling this load is so see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: What he was going to do that day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And because one day, like then as now, I had a high view of work, calling vocation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to do well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like excellence ambition was a big part of my world view.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hadn't thought about how that intertwines with formation though, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So because I wanted to do well, it became my normal habit to check my email first thing in the morning.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would roll over and I would just open my email, literally still in bed, and start reading the London office emails.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, one of my calibrating, right, what am I going to do today?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had young boys at the time very young, one of them was still in a crib, and I would never forget the morning that that one in the crib woke up super early.
[SPEAKER_00]: My alarm hadn't gone off.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd get up to go help him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And five minutes later, I am still sitting on the foot of my bed, halfway through an email back to the London office.
[SPEAKER_00]: My brain sort of comes back online because habit had taken over.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my upper brain realizes, oh my gosh, in my lower brain had been writing an email back to the London office while ignoring my son crying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just sort of became disgusted.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I went to
[SPEAKER_00]: I was really not fine though.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember going back to my bed sitting on the bed and just thinking, I've become the guy who's more attentive to the cries of his office than the cries of his son.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is neurologically how my brain has become patterned.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so this is what I want to point out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said it earlier, no one sets out to put their identity and work.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the patterns of how you work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your spiritual disciplines of work that reorder your loves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, toward work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And most of us by being the kind of person who is constantly on their phone or constantly in the inbox or constantly answering the work calls constantly checking at home, smart phones aren't the only reason this happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are big reason.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's that that make us the kind of person that look to work for our identity because my my head is asking my phone a super simple question is literally just what do I need to do today.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what every father needs to realize is that when your head is asking your phone that question your heart is asking your phone an entirely different question.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's who do I need to beat a day in order to be loved?
[SPEAKER_00]: And what do I need to do today in order to be approved of?
[SPEAKER_00]: What makes today today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what makes me worth my salt, what justifies my existence?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're broken human beings, whether we're behind the microphone or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're broken human beings with a God-shaped hole in our heart.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're always looking for someone to tell us well done good and faithful servant.
[SPEAKER_00]: or I love you, well done, I'm proud of you, son.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we're constantly looking for the father to tell us, yes, what father, sometimes it's our boss at work, sometimes it's social media accolades, sometimes it's a promotion, we're looking for some father to tell us good job.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I can't talk enough about scripture before phone, I can't share enough about how I messed this up, because when it comes to working well, this is essential.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: In Mark 1, the baptism of Jesus begins Jesus's ministry.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is all through the gospels.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus has worked in the world, begins with his baptism.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you've got this incredible moment where Jesus's baptized, a voice comes from heaven.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen to this here for the first time,
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the foundation of Jesus' ministry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not going to hurry up and get some tasks done.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's about to begin his ministry.
[SPEAKER_00]: But looking up and seeing the father hearing the voice of God, saying, your mind, I love you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am pleased with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the great flip of Christian vocation.
[SPEAKER_00]: You do not go into the world of work to earn your love.
[SPEAKER_00]: you are loved.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now you can go to work ready to give it not so hungry to receive it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's only from that discipline.
[SPEAKER_01]: But only from that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, your loves are ordered to go to work and find most of you guys out there are struggling with work because like me, you care about it a lot and you tend to get your identity from it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Scriptable for phone starting with the word and prayer.
[SPEAKER_00]: is the thing that the Lord is going to use to order your loves in the right direction so that you're working for the love of God and neighbor instead of to achieve the praise.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So your first one.
[SPEAKER_01]: is start in the word, start in the word, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was, practically, was it, yeah, practically what it looks like, and a lot of phases of my life, it is literally like that, not being allowed to check my phone until after I've spent some time in Scripture.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which on a busy hectic little kid filled morning just means I'm not my phone is still on lock.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do not disturb.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't opened it until I got into the car and on the way to the office.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tell Siri to open up dwell or audio Bible app of your choice.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I listen to some scripture on the way to work, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_00]: If that's all it is, five to ten minutes on your commute, maybe you have a longer commute, that's still incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: I always want people to recognize Scripture is never too small to matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: A prayer is never too short to matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: The idea that we habitually spend short times in Scripture, it is nonetheless formative.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we spend long study times in Scripture, which I hardly endorse,
[SPEAKER_00]: We're doing a great thing called education and, and, yes, it's beautiful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like learning the scriptures, you ought to, okay, your life ought to be a balanced diet.
[SPEAKER_00]: But formation is happening when you hear the scriptures or read them on repeat.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I say, you're right about the body teaching this whole.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then this is neurological.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're, you're becoming the kind of person who doesn't just know what scripture says.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're becoming the kind of person who in two it's how you ought to feel because of what it says.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: One is knowing and but even the demons know that God is one right and they should are they're feeling Doesn't match the reality so and we want our feeling to match the reality so we need to dwell in scripture And let me just say the other yeah half of this yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: Now in my life that my kids are not little little anymore, I have more time and capacity to wake up about 45 minutes before they do and I make a great cup of coffee, see the head of your own YouTube.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good coffee, good coffee and spend like half a hour in either the word or prayer or reading a theological book, something like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those are more long-form times than I love that, but I just want you to know anywhere you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: the discipline of scripture before a phone will help you yield either a short formative time, or a long form educational and formative time, and both are really important.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the best way to go through this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I'm trying to think through, because you said, what are your other two?
[SPEAKER_00]: My other two are a little bit more in the work day oriented.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that should be the foundational one.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I kind of want to hear yours and I can come back to my other team.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want me to go through well I have a handful of things I want the one things I wanted that we discussed really quick was Fatherhood specific disciplines like what are disciplines That help you be like do these things so I'm going to I'm going to name how would I name what they are I want you to name all of yours
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have some questions about them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they're not even, well, let me just say this.
[SPEAKER_01]: These aren't disciplines.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to say have like what these disciplines would be, but I want to tell you how I actually then get them in and through me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, let me explain.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the first one, the discipline of presence.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is that idea that you're present with your kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every father needs to have the discipline of presence.
[SPEAKER_01]: The discipline of blessing.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to learn how to bless and speak life over your kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Third, and we'll have these in the show notes.
[SPEAKER_01]: The discipline of repair.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to know how to repair through your kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Apologize quickly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fourth is the discipline of attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to know how to look your kids in the eye.
[SPEAKER_01]: Them to you have that kind of attention.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every father needs this, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Five, the discipline is slowing down.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's hard sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going, you're running, you're going so fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's intense.
[SPEAKER_01]: The discipline number six of play, that's so important.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's important, playing, hanging out, having fun, that's important.
[SPEAKER_01]: Seven, the discipline of emotional awareness, what do your kids feeling?
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of squashing their emotions when you're overwhelmed, what I do when I'm overwhelmed with dysregulitis, I squash my kids emotions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, there's no, no, don't feel that right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's almost like, I don't mean to, but you're like, I can't deal with that right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm overwhelmed therefore, you can't be overwhelmed, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to be aware when you're doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then lastly, the discipline of saying no,
[SPEAKER_01]: no to over-comment, how you project your family, but also the discipline of saying no to your kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your kids need you to say no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Did you know that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Good humans come from others that teach them that no is a part of life and that it is very common.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pretty tuned.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I laugh when I just hear these parents like, well, we didn't want to really tell them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, you wanted to really, we don't really know, we find rerout.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, your kids need to hear real boundaries.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how about no.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, gentle parenting here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can get to the note, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's the list, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just the list of like disciplines that are fatherhood specific.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I can share how, like, I would move through that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yes, those are like, I'd say eight things as a father.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's your important aspect.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I ask you to do something?
[SPEAKER_00]: Please.
[SPEAKER_00]: All of, we talked last episode about how you might now want to talk to your employees or co-workers like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: But in a sense, your employees and your co-workers are kind of like a family, a community.
[SPEAKER_00]: In some ways, like your children, they need similar disciplines.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Could all of these disciplines be disciplines of a father at work, giving your team attention, learning to say no in the right
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, like, just think about the, are they all?
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't, and can you relate each of them to the workplace?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the answer is yes, and think about this, do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Number one, discipline of presence, just being around.
[SPEAKER_00]: That always you said that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about the last episode.
[SPEAKER_01]: Discipline of Blessings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, discipline of Blessings.
[SPEAKER_01]: Saying kind things to the people that are doing good.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll definitely need this in the workplace.
[SPEAKER_01]: The discipline of repair.
[SPEAKER_01]: You fumbled, they fumbled, like, ecosystem of forgiveness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can that?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just ramping you up, dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm amped, dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the idea of blessing people in your workplace encouragement, what did they do well?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, who can they become?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like telling them, yes, you can be great at this.
[SPEAKER_00]: The discipline of repair, when you mess up, setting an example as a leader in the workplace of saying,
[SPEAKER_00]: That's my mistake.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is on me.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is on nobody else.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I the best people that talk about this in family remind us that your kids need to hear that often.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't believe it the first time or two.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they still you're saying I'm sorry I yelled at you and they're still hearing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did something wrong to make this guy mad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to fix it next time.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to say it a lot where they believe it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so a little more how
[SPEAKER_01]: Blessing your repair?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think it's when you see good you say good and I think one of I mean more the little things that we do Elizabeth and I But I know I do too If you're talking well about somebody behind their back, you need to tell them Let them know we let them know so we do that usually through a voice memo or a call and you'll be surprised I mean this it's so cool how this like Takes fire like it's like a forest fire when this happens in a good way
[SPEAKER_01]: When you start setting a culture where it's like you see something good or you're saying something great behind someone's back, you actually begin to tell them like a make commitment to let them know it builds people up and people are doing good all over the places you have to take notice and then just say something that's important.
[SPEAKER_01]: But just to move to that list, just to say like if you're in your work place, just like your kids, if you have, if you're giving your employees attention, if you're slowing down enough to figure it out, if you have the discipline of play,
[SPEAKER_01]: have fun meetings, lunch, go out places like build, play into your work, have emotional awareness.
[SPEAKER_01]: When is a team member coming in and having like a really heavy day?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're recognizing like, hey, you they still have a job.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not necessarily here to make sure that your emotions are, I can't solve the problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I can be aware and hold space for the fact that maybe today's going to be a harder day to go through some certain dynamics.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not like, excuse to not work as much as it's like, there's a common love and decency to be
[SPEAKER_01]: even when we don't want it to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then lastly, the discipline of saying, no, some of your employees, I'll just say this need to hear the word.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, like it doesn't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And part of like this has been a developing theme in this season on work, you know, embracing limits as a feature, not a flaw of your experiences, you're a creature.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're not the creator.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are limited in place.
[SPEAKER_00]: God is on me present.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're limited in power.
[SPEAKER_00]: God is on me present.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're limited in power.
[SPEAKER_00]: God is on me present.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're limited in power.
[SPEAKER_00]: God is on me present.
[SPEAKER_00]: God is on
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to know when to say no as in just like I'm I want to do that for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I literally can't this happens with clients colleagues everybody just being honest like can you get this done for me to buy tomorrow somebody asked me on
[SPEAKER_00]: It's big honestly, I cannot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can get it done for you by Thursday.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just on a Sunday.
[SPEAKER_01]: We need to make another plan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so much better than being like, I'll do my best.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you just don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you've ultimately, listen guys, you've said no.
[SPEAKER_00]: You were just too scared to say it clearly and upfront.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so bad at this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, we all are, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: We still know, it's a learned thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anybody from my office listening to this?
[SPEAKER_00]: No, yes, I just need to learn to say no more.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I say from a position of weakness, but we all have to work on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just, it's important to say, like, I appreciate your humility, but I also think it's important to say, how do you learn your boundaries where you have to cross them?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like, how do you know it's something that's too much?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you did it and it was too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: often some things we kind of go there's there's big general things like yeah that's going to be too much or that's obviously too much and we avoid those but what you're talking about is once you've kind of you've already approved a certain amount of work okay I want to work hard I want to have a lot going on but then
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know where that line is and so you're figuring out the line.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not because you don't have good boundaries because you Yeah, maybe you did say one too many things and what you learn that is like, okay, that is one too many things I gotta go back and so it's but that's the same thing when it comes to family like you have to hold it's it's a process.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like you just figure it out right away
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to put an asterisk on this for anybody in client service.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, my world is transactional, or you're in a lot of our work is with mergers and acquisitions, which I often compare to people as being a wedding planner in that we do transactions all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're constantly helping people buy and sell companies.
[SPEAKER_00]: But for that client, it's often one of the most important days of their life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for many of them, it's the only time they'll ever sell their company.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we have plenty of people who are like, you know, small private equity,
[SPEAKER_00]: family funds who repeat buyers of businesses or entrepreneurs through acquisition, they're buying businesses, but it's still a huge day in their life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're in client service, it's not, you can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's one thing to tell like an employee or a coworker or a partner, no, I can't do that deadline, but when you're in client service and you're paid to hit the deadline or you're paid to take on that deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard to just say, no, I can't get that done by Monday when they're like, but I need this document, like, of course, so one of the things that I try to do with my clients so that I can be honest about deadlines is just say.
[SPEAKER_00]: When does this have to happen by, in your point of view?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not saying no yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying, yeah, I'm saying, is this a, like, can this slip till Wednesday and we're fine?
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause if so, I got you.
[SPEAKER_00]: If this actually has to be done by Monday, I still got you, but my team's gonna have to rearrange their priorities for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And something like that, I think lots of people in client service are scared to tell their clients,
[SPEAKER_00]: I might need more time, or I'm not sure I can get that done, because they just want to make people happy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think lots of times your clients are more human than you think.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, oh, you know, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, don't work all weekend for that Tuesday's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just didn't think about it at first.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or they'll tell you.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll be like,
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we can't get this done if that's not done Monday.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you know, you go re-prioritize.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you can't get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I tell my associates this all the time, like everything's not an emergency.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need to growing as a lawyer.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is true for a father in a man at work.
[SPEAKER_00]: It means being able to distinguish between a true emergency and just another regular work request.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to figure out the difference and not everything's in emergency.
[SPEAKER_01]: So good.
[SPEAKER_01]: No is important, but let's go back because we need to because we did we did that obviously there's a lot of our life that Intersex with leadership and work as we kind of talked about but.
[SPEAKER_01]: even with the disciplines we're talking about of home, they're also disciplines of like this is what we're trying to connect like the discipline of saying no at home also believes over into the no at work and even how you just nuance to that which is really helpful to go like
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not always straightforward.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even with your kids, it's not like you got to nuance that to there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think some of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we got scripts from a forefront, that's huge.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I was laying out is that those disciplines like every father, write those down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are fathers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they're really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are the disciplines that you need to have.
[SPEAKER_01]: But how do we get those?
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we become aware that has that become a part of who we are and that is actually slowing down and actually taking the time to pray into and to build a life through disciplines that you learn how to repair that you learn how to be present that you learn how to bless and I think it's that kind of stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: over and over and over repeated day after day that builds a beautiful life and it just takes time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I know for me, I can just say it's really brief.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's already repeated.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've said it a bunch.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like time in the morning to get my head in my heart through prayer.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't make it a big legalistic thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I read offers.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I don't even read.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just pray.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I just sit and think and ask God what he wants for the day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: The island is underrated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's great.
[SPEAKER_00]: five-minute hourglass, a 30-minute hourglass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I'm like, I want to set, this is new.
[SPEAKER_00]: I recently recently bought them because I want to be able to just say, five minutes of silence, but without getting my phone out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, this is great.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great hack.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so just reflux your desk.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do this on your desk.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you know you're overloaded, just be like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Five minutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Five minutes of silence or flip it over in a minute and nap.
[SPEAKER_00]: What made me make this Jesus?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll get to that actually because my last haven't reflected us is related but but I just for anybody who's out there doing a demanding job under a lot of deadlines you probably do not realize how much fuel there is for those deadlines and that productivity in silence and doing nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: As in setting a tire of five minutes and doing nothing is remarkably reorienting for your, your body, your soul, the combination of the, the tube.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, would you see your body teaches?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I, is that a true, I said it a little your body, your spirit, your soul, which is the combination of the two, by the way, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just, it's silence and pausing is actually such a good investment when you're thinking in your work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that I want people to take it seriously.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a good one.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I would say that's part of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the others would be throughout the day having moments to pause.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pray, think at night is well, I've already said it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So with other episodes, but
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I don't want to go into that, that all yet, because I know just what are the things as we're talking about this idea of like blessing our kids or being present.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are all things that we have to, maybe you know how to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: But again, this is about reordering those loves.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have, like, this isn't going to sound appealing to you at all, by the way, father listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you don't have your loves ordered correctly.
[SPEAKER_01]: This will seem like a burden, it will seem annoying.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're focused and passion right now is work and you're obsessed with it and that's where it's your satisfaction.
[SPEAKER_01]: Joy comes from, there's like, I don't want to shame you.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a beauty that you love it, but it's out of order.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's your sign like that's out of order.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want it to be healthy and not destroy you, you need to slow down enough and remember, okay, I'm not, this is not who I am and bring back in the other part.
[SPEAKER_01]: Practices like prayer before scripture or prayer before phone and scripture before phone practices like slowing down having Sabbath rest We're going to talk about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are things that re-oriented and again There's a lot of people talking about this right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: We know that What they're talking about it for a reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a few things that are Fasting Sabbath prayer and reading scripture these four in generosity, by the way
[SPEAKER_01]: These are five things that when you do them consistently, they change you, I would argue, quicker than anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: When dramatic.
[SPEAKER_01]: And remember, in the early days, the market of a Christian, three things that they would do that set Christians apart compared to others was three things.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was prayer.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was fasting in generosity.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, these three things, it was like, hey, you're a Christian cool, but like every Christian was giving of time, not just money, but time, like they were, they were a servant, they were fallen tears, so there was time, and then there was prayer, you were constantly got a rhythm of prayer, and in generosity and what I say, prayer generosity, fasting, they were fasting, yeah, and that's one that's like, I still don't love fasting, right, like it's never a one that I'm like, I am so pumped to fast today, but man does it help, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good, I've got two more practices that I'll weave in here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two notes just briefly on the way to these two practices.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: One, you know, a question that I get a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got it as I put out a call for questions for the season, like, you know, what do you want to know about work?
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people are like, how do I...
[SPEAKER_00]: intertwined my faith with my work or how do I see my meaning and work or you some version of that question oh yeah and part of it's the world of you stuff we talked about like the sacred sacred secular divide is false like throughout your mind your work is spiritual and meaningful but part of it y'all is just this
[SPEAKER_00]: In our twine spiritual disciplines into your work like we're like we're talking about Yes, and your work will feel a lot more spiritual because it is you're just waking up to it You're reordering your loves to find that it always has been spiritual and second part is
[SPEAKER_00]: I just loved your list broken.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the way that it is so applicable to being a father at home with your kids and wife and so applicable to being a worker.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just want to ask the the dad's listening name, which place are you doing better at because some of you are so good at having fun with your team.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're so good at having that conversation with your employee, like you've given your office vision, you're killing it, and then you come home and you're like zoning out or you're drinking or you're gambling or you're looking at porn or you're just you're just tired and absent like it's not it's no sexy sin you're just absent is it what they're called now, but you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't just think it's like we talked about on the last episode of CD.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just that boredom that exhaustion that on me is the French, but it all agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Perfect, but like I, you're killing it at the workplace, but you don't apply any of these disciplines to your home life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just want to encourage you like you can do it and your wife knows like why is he lit up there?
[SPEAKER_00]: But he's not leading spiritually at home or vice versa.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe some of you're given it, you're all in your family and you are doing great with your kids, but you're just sort of fumbling when it comes to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, 70% of your waking hours that spent at work and it's a huge part of your call.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just, you know, name if you're doing one or the other and ask yourself how can my disciplines intertwine?
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, here are my last two, these can very helpful.
[SPEAKER_00]: Start to close this out here, I'll give them to you both.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll give them both to you, then we'll talk about details a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: Make prayer a part of your work rhythm and make one rest and reflection a part of your work rhythm.
[SPEAKER_00]: So number two, make prayer a part of it and number three, make rest a part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So here's what I mean, prayer shouldn't just happen in your quiet time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It should be intertwined with your workday and for a long time I had a new time habit of like right in the middle of the workday pausing at my desk Putting my palms up for just a moment and asking the Lord to be present again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't done it in a couple years Honestly, and I miss it But I would commend that great practice.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would commend that habit to you because for me You know, you can work both of the morning on coffee and hope
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you get to the middle of the day and you realize, I'm a limited creature who's not going to finish everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: People want more than I can give the day and that's if you're feel that way like circa lunchtime like I often do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just a great time to close your office door if you have one or you know close your laptop.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can kneel in your office great I sometimes I do this more often I would just put my palms up and just be quiet for 60 seconds
[SPEAKER_00]: To work for your glory and the service of my clients neighbors and co-workers rather than my own good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't need to justify my existence today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Help me.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one way.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's That's really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: This can be with your team.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of my co-workers are believers, not all of them are, but we have an optional prayer.
[SPEAKER_00]: You do, Monday morning, first thing at 9 a.m.
[SPEAKER_00]: I lead it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I say two things, I say it's optional.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is to our partners, the law partners.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's optional, you don't have to be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will keep it to 10 minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I promise you, by 9.10, we're gonna be on the other things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'll just maybe read a song, ask for Pericles, we'll share a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: That may or may not work in your office, plus, you know, even when I was in Big Law, there was one partner who stood a weekly bus study.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you can find some way to pray with your co-workers, do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It might be structured.
[SPEAKER_00]: It might not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a person I believe that they come in my office about a month ago and be like, hey, I need to know about something personal going on in my life, a very tough personal life situation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought it was only appropriate, because I knew this person was spiritual, at least.
[SPEAKER_00]: I said, again, I'm being super vague for a lot of reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just said, would you mind if I prayed for you?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I knew it was appropriate with this person.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I also knew that it wasn't normal, but I, you know, so I just shared this because, you know, your work in a ministry broke a lot of our listeners work in ministry and it's normal for to pray.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I like the, but you know, those of you who aren't working in ministry and you're working with non-believers, let me tell you, it's still super appropriate to pray.
[SPEAKER_00]: If a co-worker tells you like, you know, their spouse is sick or their children is sick, you should say,
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I ask you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe even right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just consider it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, even with our team, just to note, we have every week from 9 p.m. to 9 p.m. with our executive team.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a present provision.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just call it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just continue to pray for God to provide all we need in all the different ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: And those rhythms as a team are really important.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I actually want to note what you're saying.
[SPEAKER_01]: The briefness is important to keep it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not saying, I don't think it's because it keeps it manageable and realistic.
[SPEAKER_01]: And prayers not about intensity is about consistency.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also the way Jesus recommended, you know, I mean, he is really clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, don't try to impress people with your words.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's saying like the consistency is way better.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then like an hour or two prayer session every week is like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think your team and your co-workers are probably more likely to adapt to a rhythm of prayer when they know that you want the boundaries of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that you know it's not going to be a taking the other stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, the one's last one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't mean to cut you off.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, yeah, I actually want to end with the rest, but I just give one more prayer rhythm.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you get an email that is bad news, my recommendation is to say a short prayer before you address it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually, it's huge.
[SPEAKER_00]: How about this been super helpful to me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I often a lot of people get that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I text email a news.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I often talk about, at home with your kids, pause prayers before discipline, like before you're about to go into a contentious moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look up and it can be this one word.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the best prayers.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is help.
[SPEAKER_00]: or the total of my favorite three word per word have mercy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not kidding, this has the word for help if you get bad news at work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, all right, I want to end with building times for rest and reflection.
[SPEAKER_00]: The obvious low-hanging fruit here is to practice the rhythm of Sabbath.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but important adaptations of it might look like learning to have a good night's sleep as part of your work rhythm, um, learning to take a walk mid day just to rest a couple of my coworkers do this fairly religiously.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just walk around the block mid day to reset.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, some of you can take a nap.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't work for everybody, but sometimes setting a timer and taking a 20 minute nap is a great way to restart the day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you a neighbor?
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, certainly not at work, but I do know some people who use it really well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So no, I'm not an effort.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I know people who use it well.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is my point here.
[SPEAKER_00]: The two more reflection times, if you can build an hour into your week where you're just thinking about, what's the priority for next week?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a form of rest.
[SPEAKER_00]: And journaling, writing by hands.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I use either a molescan or a markable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: To think through work, to do lists, tasks, and problems.
[SPEAKER_00]: They all involve stopping.
[SPEAKER_00]: and resting as a way to continue working.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think one of the cool things about Sabbath, I'm indebted to Tim Keller for pointing this out, is that when you're in a rhythm of rest, whether it's sleep or Sabbath or reflection times, they function best not as, oh, I'm so exhausted, I've got rest.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, no, they function as we start the week, the Christian week starts in the Sabbath,
[SPEAKER_00]: out of rest, out of that baptism that we started with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm concluding here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, episode is ending.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, Sabbath is a way of starting the week, just like you start the day in a quiet time of saying, I worship, I soak in the love of God, and I work out of the rest more than I rest from the work.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, you know, you got your rhythms right when you're doing that because that's where you you take your love from God And you go give it through the week and then you come back to God And that's different than working so hard so hard that you collapse and unhealthy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need help That it won't always work out so perfectly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But think of sleep every night Think of Sabbath as a weekly rhythm think of moments in your day of just pausing setting a timer being quiet walking on the block as ways of
[SPEAKER_00]: honoring that idea that you aren't a creature, not a created.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, your limits are a feature, not a flaw.
[SPEAKER_00]: You need help, you need God.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't work well without spiritual disciplines like these builds into your day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if this feels, I think it couldn't agree more just and we'll said.
[SPEAKER_01]: If this feels like a legalism to you, I want to remind you that there is just something real to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me say something that's happening in real time in our culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: That might be the correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Spiritual disciplines are the new legalism for a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I mean by that is there's a whole group of people that rise up and go this is this is a new form of legalism I've heard this and I don't mean like heard this like on social media I mean like there's been conversations I've talked to very high capable leaders like there are these different things going on and I want to say something about that because I think it's important to remember
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, we as humans will always have the tendency to overdo something to try to make it like we will distort it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We will not do a good job of holding it and that's what makes it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it make it
[SPEAKER_01]: You, yeah, well, ain't your family and your coworkers, but yeah, but it's starting with you and it's just to say like we're not saying this as a burden we're saying listen as two men that have tried this stuff If one of these sounds off putting don't do it if if all of them do just try if I can ask try the one with one that sounds the most open good
[SPEAKER_01]: But you've got to start somewhere because if you don't have a rhythm and you hide behind the lie and the excuse that this is legalism, you're just finding an excuse to not do the deeper thing that you're being invited into.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good challenge.
[SPEAKER_01]: So as we're wrapping this whole idea up of spiritual disciplines,
[SPEAKER_01]: don't read this the wrong way.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is invitation.
[SPEAKER_01]: That list of eight, you might only be able to do one.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's way better than none.
[SPEAKER_01]: So be present.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can only do that, that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's to have fun and play, then do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is better than none.
[SPEAKER_01]: Last thing I want to say, you mentioned journaling.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't mention this just because I hadn't thought about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But one of the most important practices for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: hand to pen to paper is a way to process.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know I process so many things that I'm feeling and working through with God through journaling.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a morning ritual usually with prayer.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's journaling is probably three to four times a week.
[SPEAKER_01]: I will naturally journal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't force myself what I do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not journaling like here's what I did today.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like processing what I'm thinking through with God versus that are speaking to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: So good.
[SPEAKER_01]: to some though.
[SPEAKER_01]: The prayer of examin, which is something I definitely do almost not every single night, but definitely do on a regular basis.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just basically going through like where were you present, where did you show up in this, where do I need to repent, what do you want to do next?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes when weeks get really busy.
[SPEAKER_01]: uh one of the things I do on my Sabbath is I actually have an an examined of the week.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I go back and like where were you present this week?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where did I totally mess up this week?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where was a day that I was totally disregulated and off?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why was I off?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where was my family in that space?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where were you in that space?
[SPEAKER_01]: And just having little spaces to look back upon the week and then to go, God what's coming next this week?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: helpful to reorient your heart to Jesus.
[SPEAKER_01]: So these spiritual disciplines, they're not a legalistic weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are imitations from the Spirit to live more fully into who He's made you be.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we just want to encourage you as Father's take one of these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Take all of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: But try your own and they're going to look different for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But they're fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm telling you I'm so glad that I got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: When Jesus says, my yoke is easy and my burden is light.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's everything you need to know about spiritual disciplines and legalism.
[SPEAKER_00]: Humans are idol factories.
[SPEAKER_00]: They'll make anything legalistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Jesus is saying my way of life, which is this spiritual disciplines.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the one yolk, the one burden that loves you back, like I'm with you in it, and anybody who's hiding behind, I don't, this isn't work for me, I make it legalistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say, you're making something else legalistic then, like you have something else, some other yolk you're under and that's why I agree with you broke these are invitation to the easy and lightweight of life and we need it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, fathers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your father needs your work, needs your vocation, and it needs you to intertwine spiritual disciplines so that you can walk under the light burden of Jesus and live in that hall that God sees you loves you as you're the beloved son with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is well, please.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go forth God bless We won't talk to you next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just pick one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just do something next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right