WEBVTT 00:03.243 --> 00:07.901 [SPEAKER_02]: This show is brought to you by TheMakery, the podcast network for Makers. 00:17.070 --> 00:18.051 [SPEAKER_01]: What's up everybody? 00:18.252 --> 00:20.234 [SPEAKER_01]: This is Maraco Malmassi, Malmassi Fire. 00:20.254 --> 00:32.206 [SPEAKER_01]: It's welcome to another fine episode of the night talk podcast where we Keep you company answer your questions Keep you company that is in the shop or on your commute wherever you might be listening to us We appreciate you. 00:32.767 --> 00:37.211 [SPEAKER_01]: We're here to answer questions troubleshoot whatever you got going on in the shop in life 00:38.693 --> 00:41.076 [SPEAKER_01]: Relationships, even, we've done some relationships stuff. 00:41.236 --> 00:43.179 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm usually here. 00:43.219 --> 00:44.781 [SPEAKER_00]: We've called some divorces, I think. 00:44.861 --> 00:47.725 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so. 00:48.946 --> 00:54.453 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm usually here with Jeff Fader, but he's off exploring the land of Japan. 00:55.494 --> 00:58.776 [SPEAKER_01]: Visiting his daughter and it looks like he's having a fun time over there. 00:59.216 --> 01:07.600 [SPEAKER_01]: Congratulations, massive congratulations to him for His team the next finishing first in the finals and whatever conference. 01:07.660 --> 01:08.220 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how bad. 01:08.240 --> 01:16.884 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how basketball works I don't follow sports, but anyways good for them, but I am here without copy time mr. Chapp Naves Mr. Craig Lockwood. 01:17.184 --> 01:17.704 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello sir. 01:17.744 --> 01:18.425 [SPEAKER_00]: How have you been? 01:19.726 --> 01:20.547 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I'm good. 01:20.667 --> 01:21.287 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm good. 01:21.608 --> 01:23.709 [SPEAKER_00]: And reported from the boat again this evening. 01:23.749 --> 01:28.112 [SPEAKER_00]: So if there's a bit of noise, it's just it's been busy this weekend And then arena for some reason. 01:28.132 --> 01:29.814 [SPEAKER_00]: I think the sun's out to everybody's out. 01:29.854 --> 01:30.694 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm good. 01:30.714 --> 01:33.296 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but I'm good. 01:33.316 --> 01:33.757 [SPEAKER_00]: True to. 01:34.818 --> 01:34.958 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. 01:34.978 --> 01:35.278 [SPEAKER_00]: It's off. 01:35.318 --> 01:35.498 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:35.518 --> 01:35.658 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:35.998 --> 01:36.819 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:36.939 --> 01:37.359 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm good. 01:37.419 --> 01:40.602 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, um, yeah, it's been it's been a decent week, actually. 01:40.922 --> 01:43.304 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, my back is getting better by the day. 01:43.484 --> 01:46.726 [SPEAKER_00]: Really is like I'm far more active than I've been in months now. 01:46.867 --> 01:47.307 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god. 01:47.588 --> 01:49.938 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and it's yeah, it's it's just really positive. 01:50.018 --> 01:50.561 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really good. 01:50.782 --> 01:51.143 [SPEAKER_00]: Really good. 01:51.163 --> 01:51.826 [SPEAKER_00]: Very hard day. 01:53.198 --> 02:03.607 [SPEAKER_00]: We meant to be having a school sports day for the kids, but they've stopped doing sports day now because they don't like the idea of winners and losers, which is ridiculous. 02:03.928 --> 02:04.788 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally ridiculous. 02:05.269 --> 02:14.577 [SPEAKER_00]: So they do this thing called the color run where basically every runs together and the teachers are on the track and they throw paint at you and glitter and stuff like that. 02:14.978 --> 02:15.838 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm not sure. 02:15.878 --> 02:17.280 [SPEAKER_01]: So colored track and stuff like that. 02:17.880 --> 02:21.682 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so we did it with the kids and um, and it was great fun. 02:21.762 --> 02:22.322 [SPEAKER_00]: It was great fun. 02:22.342 --> 02:26.404 [SPEAKER_00]: I was the most I've moved in months and um, yeah, but that was great fun. 02:26.464 --> 02:28.125 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it sounds out as well. 02:28.225 --> 02:31.627 [SPEAKER_00]: It's everything just feels a bit positive, you know. 02:31.727 --> 02:32.327 [SPEAKER_01]: That's great. 02:32.387 --> 02:33.908 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not too hot there for you, isn't it? 02:35.028 --> 02:36.429 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, just about right. 02:36.909 --> 02:37.770 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just about right. 02:37.830 --> 02:39.051 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'll win Fahrenheit. 02:39.071 --> 02:39.471 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 02:39.611 --> 02:42.233 [SPEAKER_00]: It's it's sort of 22 23. 02:42.313 --> 02:43.894 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's, you know, it's T-shirt weather. 02:44.615 --> 02:44.815 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 02:44.875 --> 02:47.157 [SPEAKER_00]: T-shirt weather, but it's, but it's, but it's nice. 02:47.677 --> 02:49.858 [SPEAKER_01]: But you know, it's 21. 02:49.878 --> 02:51.319 [SPEAKER_01]: 71 71. 02:51.420 --> 02:53.321 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 02:53.421 --> 02:55.262 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's cool, but it's, you know, it's dry. 02:55.923 --> 02:57.524 [SPEAKER_01]: And that's perfect. 02:57.584 --> 02:57.944 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 02:58.524 --> 02:58.825 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 02:59.025 --> 03:01.346 [SPEAKER_00]: And the, and the will caps on as well. 03:01.426 --> 03:03.208 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's, you know, stuff to watch every day, 03:04.028 --> 03:05.328 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I mean, to it. 03:05.348 --> 03:05.688 [SPEAKER_00]: It's good. 03:05.988 --> 03:06.348 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, good. 03:06.949 --> 03:24.332 [SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no 03:32.199 --> 03:43.232 [SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, there's been a lot of controversy, obviously, for this world cup as well, where is, you know, what are the senior referees, what are not allowed into the country, who's Somalia, and who's detained, and then it's just like, what, it's crazy. 03:43.893 --> 03:49.140 [SPEAKER_00]: Various teams being searched and all that stuff being pulled out of the airport in front of everybody, it's all a bit crazy. 03:50.021 --> 03:57.469 [SPEAKER_00]: But generally, once the World Cup starts, everybody seems to forget about all that stuff and it's more about the games than you know. 03:57.889 --> 04:05.017 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so I know, you know, the USA isn't the huge football, that's a traditional football country. 04:05.598 --> 04:10.424 [SPEAKER_00]: But I was reading a stat earlier, so about 10 million people watched the Super Bowl final. 04:11.576 --> 04:14.977 [SPEAKER_00]: and over a billion people watch the first game of the World Cup. 04:15.777 --> 04:20.438 [SPEAKER_00]: And that was, that was, that was just like Mexico, South Africa, they're not, you know, massive ass. 04:20.478 --> 04:23.838 [SPEAKER_00]: You could argue that Mexico is a football in nation, but you know, oh, yeah. 04:24.018 --> 04:31.660 [SPEAKER_00]: So what, you know, the Brazil games, the Argentine games, France games, England games, the audience is far more than a billion, you know? 04:32.360 --> 04:37.561 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so I always find it crazy that football is in this massive, massive sport in the US. 04:37.601 --> 04:39.381 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's growing hugely and fast. 04:40.121 --> 04:43.504 [SPEAKER_00]: But it certainly is massive in Europe, you know, it's the sport. 04:44.004 --> 04:44.645 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely. 04:44.685 --> 04:51.190 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we have, we have outliers here and there, and they honestly typically go play in another country. 04:51.210 --> 04:53.972 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they do. 04:53.992 --> 05:02.039 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, people are trying to figure it out here, but the female soccer team is I'm aware, as far as I'm aware, is actually pretty down the, at least in regards to the world stage. 05:02.719 --> 05:05.321 [SPEAKER_01]: And they've, right, several of the world 05:07.663 --> 05:07.943 [SPEAKER_00]: Really? 05:08.003 --> 05:08.684 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, right, okay. 05:08.744 --> 05:14.349 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I think they're the most winningist Possibly I think the most winningist. 05:14.369 --> 05:22.796 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the most numerical thing you've said But don't tell you about drinking beer through a hot dog straw. 05:23.556 --> 05:26.099 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh well, love that definitely is more American yet 05:28.107 --> 05:30.608 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but now I'm really enjoying the World Cup. 05:31.229 --> 05:33.630 [SPEAKER_00]: It's good, but the times are crazy for us, the games. 05:33.650 --> 05:36.751 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're generally 11pm or 2am. 05:37.312 --> 05:38.832 [SPEAKER_00]: The games. 05:38.992 --> 05:41.333 [SPEAKER_00]: Some generally wash in the next day or something, you know. 05:41.474 --> 05:42.974 [SPEAKER_00]: So, um, no, it's all good. 05:43.114 --> 05:43.575 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all good. 05:43.695 --> 05:44.955 [SPEAKER_00]: And the US won their game. 05:45.255 --> 05:45.736 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know. 05:46.216 --> 05:46.676 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, good. 05:46.696 --> 05:47.316 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll go to thought. 05:47.777 --> 05:48.357 [SPEAKER_00]: Who would have thought? 05:48.977 --> 05:49.698 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a story. 05:50.758 --> 05:51.598 [SPEAKER_00]: So what's been good on with you? 05:51.638 --> 05:52.078 [SPEAKER_00]: What's happening? 05:52.758 --> 06:10.442 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want to say I'm glad to hear that your back is feeling better because I've had very few I've had back issues my entire life, but I've only been completely laid out maybe a handful of times and it's the fucking worst, absolutely. 06:10.482 --> 06:17.003 [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing is no position is comfortable laying down, sitting, what are standing even? 06:18.143 --> 06:26.166 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it just compounds everything else because you can't sleep So then you constantly tie it and snappy and it's depressing because you can't do anything. 06:26.226 --> 06:28.946 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's it's been bad But thankfully I'm on the mend. 06:29.507 --> 06:36.509 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I feel like I wouldn't be surprised if I had a big background That I have to be like big back problem. 06:36.549 --> 06:40.290 [SPEAKER_01]: I already have a big background But like a bad of a serious back injury 06:47.452 --> 07:05.212 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can't admit what it's like to try to roll around and like I've had issues where I'm not I wake up with it like a terribly stiff neck and I can't turn my head and all up and down so I decide it's just anyways So anybody who has a healthy back 07:06.073 --> 07:19.099 [SPEAKER_01]: Take small steps to keep that back healthy because when it goes out it's the fucking worst and anybody who's not doing those small steps start doing and it's like it's crazy how simple it is to help me encourage back and spine health. 07:19.932 --> 07:29.698 [SPEAKER_01]: Hmm, just by do like even when we're working like I have a habit of starting to work on the grindered and thinking oh, I'll just be here for like 20 minutes and like three hours later. 07:29.738 --> 07:30.459 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm still standing. 07:30.479 --> 07:31.620 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 07:31.640 --> 07:33.120 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you got to break it up. 07:33.301 --> 07:35.462 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not about efficiency. 07:35.682 --> 07:43.287 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're actually I think it's one of those situations where it's less efficient to not stop in regards to how it has effect on you long term. 07:43.667 --> 07:47.330 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like not never it's like never changing an oil in your in your car. 07:48.050 --> 08:13.336 [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine you just never change it and then what's going to happen to that engine it's going to fucking seize up blow up it's going to something bad is going to happen take a few moments it takes literally less than five minutes most of the time to just do a few little like neck rolls looking side to side looking up basically at the position that we hold our body in when we're standing at the grinder and we're hunched over in our next or in our eyes and everything's pointed down at the 08:17.717 --> 08:19.297 [SPEAKER_01]: do the opposite, essentially. 08:19.878 --> 08:31.021 [SPEAKER_01]: Do like a back roll, back stretch your arms back, look up the ceiling, roll your shoulder head shoulder the shoulder, like it takes just a little bit of time and that will make such a huge difference and how your body feels. 08:31.461 --> 08:35.462 [SPEAKER_01]: Not only at the end of the day, but like long jeopardy if you're trying to do this as a career. 08:35.942 --> 08:40.784 [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, it took a lot of coffee before I got on the podcast today. 08:41.164 --> 08:41.704 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so good. 08:41.884 --> 08:42.304 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so good. 08:42.524 --> 09:02.050 [SPEAKER_00]: No you're right though because I mean the way we stand we've generally got our heads down and we're tensed as well you know but she's tensed you know yeah right before we get into what we've got we've got questions and we've got we've got a subject to talk about as well because Jeff's not in and you know Jeff can talk for hours an hour so we thought well let's have a subject between us. 09:02.490 --> 09:06.432 [SPEAKER_00]: and maybe Jeff can join us next week and see what he thinks about it all. 09:06.472 --> 09:08.533 [SPEAKER_00]: But before we do, I want to tell everybody about even heat. 09:08.873 --> 09:10.974 [SPEAKER_00]: Even heat, hyphenkehn.com. 09:11.534 --> 09:17.177 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're looking for a kiln or an oven, whatever you want to call it, head on over to even heat, because they've got everything you could possibly need. 09:17.857 --> 09:23.120 [SPEAKER_00]: Models of different sizes, different voltages, for different countries, and they're great people as well. 09:23.260 --> 09:25.080 [SPEAKER_00]: Great service, great support. 09:25.301 --> 09:27.942 [SPEAKER_00]: Even heat, hyphenkehn.com, go take a look. 09:28.643 --> 09:30.284 [SPEAKER_01]: I just saw the crew of Blade Show. 09:30.764 --> 09:31.724 [SPEAKER_01]: It was awesome. 09:31.844 --> 09:32.485 [SPEAKER_00]: How was Blade? 09:32.505 --> 09:33.605 [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't spoken since Blade. 09:33.625 --> 09:34.065 [SPEAKER_00]: How was that? 09:34.225 --> 09:34.485 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 09:34.665 --> 09:36.566 [SPEAKER_01]: Blade Show was a lot of fun. 09:37.267 --> 09:40.808 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, I think this was probably the most enjoyable year that I've had. 09:40.968 --> 09:42.749 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't have a table in which it helps it. 09:42.789 --> 09:42.909 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 09:43.489 --> 09:44.409 [SPEAKER_01]: And I can't think that. 09:44.469 --> 09:46.730 [SPEAKER_01]: If I don't have a table, I'll be less exhausted. 09:46.790 --> 09:48.831 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm just as exhausted at the end of the year. 09:48.851 --> 09:50.652 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's just a lot of stimulus. 09:50.952 --> 09:52.833 [SPEAKER_01]: tons of people walking all over the place. 09:53.314 --> 09:59.959 [SPEAKER_01]: You got to be somewhat vigilant about people looking at knives and potentially like stabbing you accidentally. 09:59.979 --> 10:02.501 [SPEAKER_01]: There were a couple of those I think this year. 10:03.342 --> 10:04.803 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow, yeah. 10:05.003 --> 10:07.805 [SPEAKER_00]: Two minutes left for the knife in your hand and just ooh, yeah, yeah. 10:07.985 --> 10:32.230 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, if you're looking at a knife, keep it over the table because if you turn off the table at any point like people are walking down the aisles with their heads on a swivel and they might not be looking where you are with your knife poking out and if you're looking at the knife, you're not looking at them and that's when yeah access have it but anyways, it was it was a lot of fun still talking a lot of ton of people so it was very I think by the time I got to Saturday evening I was like 10:32.690 --> 10:33.090 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what? 10:33.571 --> 10:47.840 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't be mad to be going home right now, and yeah, so Sunday like everybody and honestly like everybody's pretty wiped out by Sunday Land low had a couple like Friday and Saturday nights usually late nights in the pit 10:48.680 --> 11:16.960 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a good boy, and I went to bed by 130 most nights, um, I did have one late night, worse, and it was good, that's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good, it's good 11:17.280 --> 11:21.404 [SPEAKER_01]: Surely no, no, he was already sharing the bed with Jeremy yella. 11:22.265 --> 11:22.706 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, right. 11:22.786 --> 11:27.891 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay Megara Canada, so he was he they were full up there. 11:28.431 --> 11:29.172 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was fine. 11:29.272 --> 11:32.976 [SPEAKER_01]: I just need a corner and a and Somewhere that was just laid out. 11:33.256 --> 11:36.860 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been able to sleep in tons of different places. 11:36.940 --> 11:37.300 [SPEAKER_01]: It's weird 11:38.201 --> 11:38.361 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 11:38.561 --> 11:43.383 [SPEAKER_01]: I fell asleep at a kiss concert, actually, really, and that's the concert. 11:43.803 --> 11:45.383 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, at the concert. 11:45.483 --> 11:49.144 [SPEAKER_01]: But if I'm tired enough, it doesn't fucking matter where I'm at, I will go to sleep right away. 11:49.164 --> 11:49.284 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 11:49.944 --> 11:51.045 [SPEAKER_01]: The show was great. 11:51.225 --> 11:54.206 [SPEAKER_01]: Some, a lot of people, great people to reconnect. 11:54.266 --> 11:58.887 [SPEAKER_01]: That's like, I think for me, like, the value in doing the show. 11:59.067 --> 12:01.788 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, I think a lot of people want to go and they want to sell stuff. 12:02.708 --> 12:12.691 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it's it's tricky because I feel like blade show everybody loves the handmade stuff But there's actually only a very small number of people. 12:12.991 --> 12:25.135 [SPEAKER_01]: I would guess probably less than 5% of the people that attend the show or there for the handmade stuff to buy Right, so yeah, yeah for sure, and so I think so what are the majority of people they are full then what's 12:25.355 --> 12:30.119 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of tactical and commercial manufacturers stuff, which, for the most parts, pretty good. 12:30.579 --> 12:43.729 [SPEAKER_01]: I got this fun little of the Torinox, a tiny, tiny little Swiss army knife that had been read, like, I don't know how they repayed it or whatever on the outside, but they had it looked like a hot dog. 12:43.789 --> 12:44.970 [SPEAKER_01]: I've just said you a picture. 12:45.390 --> 12:46.351 [SPEAKER_01]: It was too cute. 12:46.451 --> 12:47.311 [SPEAKER_01]: I got it for my kid. 12:49.653 --> 13:07.903 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, there's just all kinds of funky stuff, but yeah, it's tricky because I think the value, the real value is getting to, especially as a hand hand made knife maker is to see other people's work in person to talk to them, develop the relationships with somebody, especially if you're a newer maker. 13:08.643 --> 13:14.908 [SPEAKER_01]: And I met a lot of new makers at the show, but the opportunity is to like connect with those people. 13:15.728 --> 13:23.254 [SPEAKER_01]: And I even offer, you know, hey, after meeting some of these people, they're doing good work, but it looks like there's still room for improvement. 13:23.274 --> 13:26.897 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, hey, you know, if you got any questions, I got my Patreon, but shoot me message. 13:27.337 --> 13:30.900 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm more apt to talk to people and receive messages from strangers. 13:31.440 --> 13:37.404 [SPEAKER_01]: When I, when they're technically not special, there's strangers, I've met them in person for half a second, 13:38.365 --> 13:51.458 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'm very big on like getting a sense for a person before it commit too much energy into chatting with them and that's just me not being an asshole or like feeling like I'm too cool for anybody. 13:51.478 --> 13:59.826 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just I got I only have a limited amount of mind space and energy for myself to let alone to expend extra on other people. 13:59.846 --> 14:00.206 [SPEAKER_01]: So anyhow. 14:01.387 --> 14:06.470 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a great way to make, uh, to network with other makers, see the, see work. 14:06.750 --> 14:10.272 [SPEAKER_01]: There are some perverts like, uh, retailers that go to the show. 14:11.013 --> 14:22.779 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're actually, they're the ones that are kind of the saving grace for a lot of the custom makers, um, who don't have maybe a big following, but who are doing good work and are up and coming. 14:22.799 --> 14:23.760 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, um, 14:24.280 --> 14:42.850 [SPEAKER_01]: and yeah so there's an opportunity to sell through them but it's generally like it is a great community and there's very few opportunities to be able to get together for those people and for us weirdos, knife makers who spend lots of our time in the cave of some sort of 14:47.472 --> 14:48.994 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, police show was awesome. 14:49.034 --> 14:50.976 [SPEAKER_01]: It was great to hang out with the crew of Damasteel. 14:51.356 --> 14:54.360 [SPEAKER_01]: We're going to check in and chat with our guys over here. 14:54.380 --> 15:05.892 [SPEAKER_01]: Even he hung out with Lawrence Lake quite a bit catching up with a lot of our friends from the show, who've been part of the Capacas and who are a lot of listeners as well. 15:06.612 --> 15:07.993 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, it was a great time. 15:08.013 --> 15:12.576 [SPEAKER_01]: And I, I, I, I, I big thank you to everybody who took the time to stop and say what's up to me. 15:13.237 --> 15:14.317 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, it's very flattering. 15:14.357 --> 15:25.805 [SPEAKER_01]: We're doing our best here on the podcast and to just help keep you guys company as we like to say and provide some value to, you know, to you as, as part of the community in that way. 15:26.526 --> 15:27.146 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, yeah. 15:27.226 --> 15:27.446 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 15:28.127 --> 15:29.888 [SPEAKER_00]: How was this sort of vibe there? 15:29.908 --> 15:33.851 [SPEAKER_00]: What were people sort of successful led to people who had tables, where they 15:36.718 --> 15:47.283 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to read, excuse me, there were some people who couldn't, who were having a hard time moving stuff, and then there were others who, like, sold out completely. 15:47.643 --> 15:53.846 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just hard to tell, like, I think a lot of it, or hard to tell who's going to do that, hard to predict who's going to do that. 15:53.866 --> 16:02.269 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think you got to think about the people that are coming to the show or try to attempt to, you know, visualize and kind of plan for the people 16:06.542 --> 16:12.483 [SPEAKER_01]: because if you're relying on the local market, like you're gonna have a hard time. 16:13.023 --> 16:24.946 [SPEAKER_01]: I think really for, especially for newer makers, even some established makers who were trying to broaden their market, while early on in my career, I was trying to get away from Proveurs as fast as I could. 16:25.306 --> 16:32.967 [SPEAKER_01]: They actually, I've come around to realize, and I had a great conversation with one of the Proveurs that were there at the show, Tara Straffers. 16:36.863 --> 16:54.434 [SPEAKER_01]: San Mateo and in California and which is the Bay Area San Lake San Francisco Bay Area anyways I realized that there's a you know, there's so much white noise out there when you go on to Instagram or even do a Google search of custom handmade knife 16:54.854 --> 16:58.036 [SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to know, like, what is actually good and what is it? 16:58.156 --> 17:08.422 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that prevails, how to act is kind of a middle man in a way to help guide the new collector and to figuring out what's good and what is it. 17:08.943 --> 17:15.126 [SPEAKER_01]: Whether they sell work to them, ideally, a good prevail is going to say, this is what makes a good knife and this isn't. 17:15.967 --> 17:18.348 [SPEAKER_01]: And like, I try to do that when I talk to people too. 17:18.388 --> 17:21.030 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not trying to sell them necessarily on my work because I know. 17:21.530 --> 17:39.555 [SPEAKER_01]: that my work isn't necessarily for everybody or the president, but there's a lot of good work out there, and so it's about, I think for me, more than anything, it's about educating those people, and those purveurs become kind of like that beacon in the dark for people trying to figure out what 17:40.512 --> 17:40.913 [SPEAKER_01]: is what? 17:41.213 --> 17:41.694 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly. 17:41.834 --> 17:43.395 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like a trusted soul. 17:43.476 --> 17:44.537 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's exactly it. 17:45.017 --> 17:53.327 [SPEAKER_01]: And so at the shows, I think that connecting with those, those Proveurs, and they're probably, I think they're at least four or five of them. 17:53.407 --> 17:57.051 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, it doesn't sound like a lot, but when it comes to the custom makers, like, 17:57.752 --> 18:15.451 [SPEAKER_01]: Those Proveurs are there ready to spend, I think, one of them spent at least $100,000, so that some are ready to spend up like, you know, 10, 20, 30, 50,000 dollars on buying and accumulating like new work and discovering new makers, but 18:16.072 --> 18:22.415 [SPEAKER_01]: You got to do the work to connect with those people too and to make works stand out in a way. 18:22.435 --> 18:28.499 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's not just about the work, it's also like part, it's just the branding as well. 18:28.599 --> 18:30.600 [SPEAKER_01]: Telling your story, who do you guys think is a thing? 18:30.740 --> 18:32.161 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. 18:32.881 --> 18:51.987 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, and given in that honestly, that helps the reverir, if you have something interesting to talk about about where you come from, your background, why you set on on certain design features and whatnot, that helps them, honestly, to add a story to the work and sell that work. 18:52.488 --> 18:55.769 [SPEAKER_01]: If you got nothing, then they also have nothing on it. 18:55.929 --> 18:56.769 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. 18:57.089 --> 18:58.109 [SPEAKER_00]: No, please make sense. 18:58.270 --> 18:58.850 [SPEAKER_00]: Please make sense. 18:59.830 --> 19:01.933 [SPEAKER_00]: So you saw the Dynasty a bunch there. 19:02.134 --> 19:04.257 [SPEAKER_00]: Tell everybody all about Dynasty and what they're up to. 19:04.838 --> 19:06.760 [SPEAKER_01]: There they got all kinds of stuff going on. 19:06.800 --> 19:11.728 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually by the time I got to the table, I think it was the first day I fried it. 19:11.748 --> 19:14.171 [SPEAKER_01]: They had already sold all the build among material. 19:15.413 --> 19:18.697 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, in this part of the series, they were out. 19:19.138 --> 19:24.565 [SPEAKER_01]: So congratulations to them on that, but it was a really great time hanging out with them. 19:24.606 --> 19:30.153 [SPEAKER_01]: They make the best, high performance, stainless Damascus available commercially on the market. 19:31.835 --> 19:33.275 [SPEAKER_01]: I've used the material myself. 19:33.455 --> 19:33.975 [SPEAKER_01]: I love it. 19:34.936 --> 19:36.796 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very you heat your to friendly. 19:36.956 --> 19:38.336 [SPEAKER_01]: It can't with the right tools. 19:39.197 --> 19:40.397 [SPEAKER_01]: It can be forging friendly. 19:40.977 --> 19:45.018 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, you get really incredible results from that from that steel. 19:45.078 --> 19:56.780 [SPEAKER_01]: So if you got any interest in it, go check it out over at demestile.se put make sure you put knife talking for check out so you can save yourself a little bit of cash over. 19:57.523 --> 20:03.977 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and then I think their Lawrence Lake is still sailing material over on maritime national play. 20:04.874 --> 20:10.358 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I cannot recall if there's any material that's been in the United States. 20:10.418 --> 20:15.841 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember if it was true, or an American medical metal looks changed, that was doing it. 20:16.202 --> 20:20.805 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think it's that, yeah, the American metal exchange, I think. 20:20.845 --> 20:23.967 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you didn't you were up, you didn't get direct from Domestale when they have stock. 20:24.867 --> 20:28.830 [SPEAKER_00]: And obviously, Canadians can get it from Lawrence at a maritime national block. 20:28.890 --> 20:29.370 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 20:29.450 --> 20:30.231 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, hanging out with 20:32.598 --> 20:40.601 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it's I enjoy getting to know Carly more and more every year just because like there's a lot of people that are trying to get Carly's 20:41.227 --> 21:04.032 [SPEAKER_01]: time and talk her up which is what she's there for which is great because I know her already like I try to give her space so that she can talk to people but when she's in between folks I try to catch up with her a little bit, talk about the family, catch up about Norway all this stuff and she's awesome and so is the rest of the crew and so yeah I I really enjoy 21:11.830 --> 21:21.117 [SPEAKER_01]: And I already have ideas on what to do next year, but I'm going to keep those, uh, uh, I guess play those cards close to my chest right now for now. 21:21.278 --> 21:21.698 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah. 21:21.718 --> 21:24.580 [SPEAKER_01]: But I have some fun ideas for, uh, for next year. 21:24.940 --> 21:32.466 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'll probably try to coordinate with one of our sponsors, whether it's even he or Damistiel or whoever, but I think you got some fun ideas for next year. 21:32.727 --> 21:33.647 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have a table. 21:33.988 --> 21:35.449 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't able to test this year. 21:35.509 --> 21:36.329 [SPEAKER_01]: I have so much 21:37.070 --> 21:39.871 [SPEAKER_01]: kind of chaotic shit happening in my life right now. 21:41.112 --> 21:47.194 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's hard to coordinate timing in regards to taking the time to make the journey missed my test. 21:47.634 --> 21:54.137 [SPEAKER_01]: But over on my Patreon, I'm going to start following or do doing live streams on my process for making my. 21:55.597 --> 21:56.618 [SPEAKER_01]: Dream and Smith stuff. 21:57.178 --> 22:04.902 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be doing interviews with Master Smith and other Dream and Smith as well as special like I have a set or my design my knives. 22:05.382 --> 22:11.625 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I have them pretty much figured out, but I specializing culinary knives obviously so I'm very confident making that, but 22:12.185 --> 22:17.266 [SPEAKER_01]: Booni knives, apuco, doing like hunters and stuff like that. 22:17.846 --> 22:23.767 [SPEAKER_01]: I've made them, but I know that there are much more nuanced tools that I have. 22:23.907 --> 22:33.029 [SPEAKER_01]: I just don't have the expertise or background in using them to really feel super confident and making the best of what I can, so I'm going to be talking with some really cool people. 22:33.569 --> 22:36.270 [SPEAKER_01]: All that stuff's going to happen through my Patreon to help. 22:36.830 --> 22:38.552 [SPEAKER_01]: help me with designing those knives. 22:39.313 --> 22:46.542 [SPEAKER_01]: And as well as probably, I've connected with some hunters over the years, so talking to some hunters about how those knives are used as well. 22:47.163 --> 22:51.388 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's try to get some insight from them and make some badass knives. 22:52.669 --> 22:54.191 [SPEAKER_01]: Next year's gonna be a fun year. 22:54.571 --> 22:55.372 [SPEAKER_01]: Stressful, but good. 22:56.424 --> 22:57.324 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not always. 22:57.565 --> 22:58.045 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. 22:59.025 --> 23:07.308 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, look, I've got a, we got some questions, but I've got a, something we can talk about, which we've sort of hit up on already a little bit. 23:08.729 --> 23:14.771 [SPEAKER_00]: But I've seen about activities outside the shop that makers do to make them better makers. 23:15.331 --> 23:18.833 [SPEAKER_00]: Because my thought is that most people, if they're creative, 23:19.878 --> 23:26.969 [SPEAKER_00]: what they do in their spare time is just other creative pursuits, you know, because greater people are just creative, they need to do something. 23:27.449 --> 23:28.070 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 23:28.451 --> 23:31.155 [SPEAKER_00]: So I wonder when you're not in the shop, what is it you're doing? 23:32.817 --> 23:35.341 [SPEAKER_01]: I think for excuse me, choking on my coffee. 23:38.522 --> 23:40.304 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a joke about Diet Coke, what do you said that to you? 23:40.324 --> 23:41.284 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh perfect. 23:41.805 --> 23:43.126 [SPEAKER_01]: Ah, Diet Coke. 23:43.466 --> 23:46.328 [SPEAKER_01]: This fridge is a great, you know, um, yeah, yeah. 23:46.348 --> 23:47.069 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you heard that term? 23:47.089 --> 23:49.651 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people want that, it goes fridge to your ass. 23:49.791 --> 23:51.352 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyways. 23:51.412 --> 23:52.273 [SPEAKER_01]: Why fridge to go right? 23:52.293 --> 23:53.073 [SPEAKER_01]: Watch that, does that mean? 23:53.213 --> 23:53.634 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 23:53.674 --> 24:01.860 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like mildly a dick thing, and there's just like, you go right along and you crack it, and take your first swing, and it's just so, the feel so, yeah. 24:01.880 --> 24:03.221 [SPEAKER_00]: I see, yeah. 24:03.281 --> 24:04.041 [SPEAKER_00]: I can see that, yeah. 24:05.618 --> 24:11.266 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, in my off time, I'm doing, or outside of knife making, I, I do a lot of cooking. 24:11.346 --> 24:20.819 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that really, for me, it really helps, um, to kind of like solidify my knowledge and understanding around the tool that I make the most, um, 24:21.834 --> 24:30.221 [SPEAKER_01]: But outside of that, I know a lot of makers play guitar, play instruments, I'm driving around and singing all the time. 24:30.281 --> 24:33.723 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not necessarily the greatest singer, but I love it and it's fun. 24:34.244 --> 24:36.205 [SPEAKER_01]: I enjoy it. 24:36.265 --> 24:47.554 [SPEAKER_01]: I actually do a lot of stuff with the kiddo, because he's still just such a sponge and checking out all kinds of different stuff and different activities. 24:47.674 --> 24:50.637 [SPEAKER_01]: He's also very much in the music, but we go and build stuff. 24:51.357 --> 24:53.378 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, we build with Legos. 24:53.578 --> 24:54.759 [SPEAKER_01]: We have a 3D printer. 24:54.779 --> 24:56.899 [SPEAKER_01]: So we've been learning how to use a 3D printer. 24:57.700 --> 25:02.542 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, not only for just like making minor adjustments to how it prints. 25:02.582 --> 25:09.745 [SPEAKER_01]: So it prints more efficiently or more effectively, but also learning how to design within the platforms. 25:10.345 --> 25:12.386 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, have you tried Tinka Cat? 25:13.370 --> 25:14.110 [SPEAKER_00]: think it haven't. 25:15.291 --> 25:20.635 [SPEAKER_00]: So basically, I mean, it's like building with Lego, but then you can 3D print those things. 25:21.215 --> 25:30.261 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's got really like 3D shapes that you can just drag in and put on top of each other and then take away those shapes or add those shapes. 25:30.321 --> 25:33.483 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's really simple way to build 3D models of things. 25:33.683 --> 25:37.305 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think if you get into Lego, they'll get it really, really quick. 25:37.745 --> 25:39.606 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you can just export your model and print it on 25:42.268 --> 25:43.189 [SPEAKER_00]: It's called Tinkercad. 25:43.609 --> 25:45.130 [SPEAKER_01]: Tinkercad, I'll check that out for sure. 25:45.370 --> 25:46.011 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really good. 25:46.051 --> 25:47.632 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it only works in Chrome. 25:48.132 --> 25:48.872 [SPEAKER_00]: But it's really good. 25:48.992 --> 25:50.614 [SPEAKER_00]: I've used it so many times to make things. 25:50.634 --> 25:52.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, let's say I need to bracket for something. 25:52.815 --> 25:59.059 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, you just simply just get two rectangles, then put circle holes in and you know, it's super simple to make some quick. 25:59.339 --> 26:03.162 [SPEAKER_00]: Where I think having to go into a big sort of 3D program, which can be quite overwhelming. 26:04.022 --> 26:06.064 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Tinkercad's brilliant, really good for kids too. 26:06.124 --> 26:06.284 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 26:07.004 --> 26:28.417 [SPEAKER_01]: actually yeah i'll definitely check that out um i don't know i'm trying to think i feel like all of a sudden i'm struggling to think of like the other creative stuff that i do i mean i'm honestly i'm just like a lot of my folk knife or my life is focused around knives um i'm always thinking about different product designs or uh yeah in regards to like 26:29.527 --> 26:34.829 [SPEAKER_01]: cooking or the way I make my knives, we're coming up with new pattern designs. 26:36.449 --> 26:37.129 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know. 26:37.849 --> 26:38.349 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you got? 26:38.390 --> 26:41.590 [SPEAKER_01]: What do you kind of create a thing or aside, you got to follow up. 26:41.770 --> 26:42.931 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, no, no, no. 26:43.151 --> 26:45.211 [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, for me, it's just time. 26:45.291 --> 26:45.912 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't have to. 26:46.172 --> 26:48.792 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got so many different things that I want to be doing all the time. 26:50.413 --> 26:56.595 [SPEAKER_00]: Music is obviously the number one thing for me at the moment, you know, I've always got a ton of songs, how finished or whatever is. 26:57.195 --> 26:57.895 [SPEAKER_00]: There's always that. 26:59.969 --> 27:05.076 [SPEAKER_00]: And to be honest, the boat at the moment is taking up a lot of my time, sort of making things for that and fixing things. 27:05.096 --> 27:07.860 [SPEAKER_00]: There's an old boat, you know, so there's old stuff to fix and stuff like that. 27:07.900 --> 27:13.628 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, so, I mean, just here now, to put an up shell of something like that, you know, and there's always something. 27:15.671 --> 27:16.352 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I... 27:17.784 --> 27:41.563 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got a theory that like people who make things it's a compulsion and they need to they can't not do it otherwise they get depressed and I really do feel that and I'm always amazed by the people who who don't make anything is like I don't know how I can't see how their mind works you know people who just they just contend they'll just sit on what's TV and and 27:42.504 --> 27:46.836 [SPEAKER_00]: I've always been a million things floating around my head all the time, you know, and it's like, right, let's make a list of it. 27:46.856 --> 27:47.739 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to do that next. 27:47.759 --> 27:49.804 [SPEAKER_00]: So I got I need to pick this up tomorrow so I can do that. 27:49.905 --> 27:50.506 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah. 27:51.383 --> 27:56.324 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm amazed people don't have the same thoughts, for that big set of sense, you know? 27:56.584 --> 27:59.025 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I have an internal dialogue going on. 27:59.605 --> 28:02.006 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's crazy. 28:02.526 --> 28:11.688 [SPEAKER_00]: Because I honestly do think that people who are creative, if they haven't got that outlet, I think that's how like depression can slip in and I kind of think. 28:12.029 --> 28:16.730 [SPEAKER_00]: Without you realising why that is, but yeah, but my conclusion is, 28:17.739 --> 28:32.184 [SPEAKER_00]: When I get sort of that way, it's because I haven't been able to make something or be creative in some way, because maybe there's a time constraint or there's something else on that I need to be doing, which isn't the fun stuff that I'll have to do in. 28:34.105 --> 28:49.672 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a novelty in learning new techniques and new learning new creative expression like I would I would love to learn more about Slip casting and using I've been seeing these like a ceramic 28:50.692 --> 29:15.332 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, ceramicists using 3D printing to make slipcast, which so basically you make a mold out of like multiple pieces of plaster and they kind of key into each other and it kind of precise way and then you pour this uh like clay liquid clay and essentially called slip you give it a minute to do it's thing to set up however long it is and then you pour out the excess 29:16.012 --> 29:26.038 [SPEAKER_01]: and you trim it back, you take the mold off, and then you have your ceramic thing, you clean it up, and so I haven't really gotten into it, but I've been watching a lot of videos about it in the very... 29:26.058 --> 29:30.401 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's not a solid item, it's like a skin of the item I assume. 29:30.461 --> 29:36.065 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, like a lot of, uh, uh, something that people do a lot of are like cups. 29:36.805 --> 29:41.147 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially, like, oh, right, I've been doing this series and they're just doing hundreds of cups. 29:41.607 --> 29:45.068 [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually a very efficient way to do like a production round of cups and stuff. 29:45.168 --> 29:50.470 [SPEAKER_01]: Or like, mugs or whatever, you know, and so yeah, stuff like that. 29:50.590 --> 29:51.590 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm very curious about it. 29:51.610 --> 29:54.111 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just been like, I've been trying to learn and take you. 29:55.472 --> 29:58.073 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, like the food thing for me is a big one. 29:58.513 --> 29:58.833 [SPEAKER_01]: I've been 29:59.313 --> 30:09.341 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't been good about being as experimental with food, but essentially I made a goal for myself to try to cook something new just once a month. 30:10.228 --> 30:21.012 [SPEAKER_01]: out of all the days, just pick one day and try to coordinate like getting the ingredients together and trying to learn a new cooking technique and a new style of food. 30:22.672 --> 30:27.134 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm familiar with and I love eating, but I don't know how to fucking start cooking. 30:27.854 --> 30:36.317 [SPEAKER_01]: And being willing to experiment that way, because yeah, I think there is kind of like there's a novelty in it, there's a lot 30:38.903 --> 31:06.720 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you most of the time, and they can be as subtle as like letting something sit extra 30 seconds to make a difference in how the end product turns out, you know, um, yeah, and there's, yeah, I think it is very important, no for a creative mind or and especially a busy chaotic, maybe 80 HD kind of mind, um, to to kind of, I guess explore the creative opportunities in my knife making, I've had to build that in. 31:09.505 --> 31:22.897 [SPEAKER_01]: into my work time so that I'm not just, it doesn't just feel like drudgery, like I have these little goals here and there or little windows of time that I'm working towards so that I'm not just doing the stuff that I need to do to pay my bills. 31:22.997 --> 31:34.488 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm also like, wow, this is a way for me to earn an living and it's also a creative outlet for me and it's it's hard to just be grinding all the time just to earn an income. 31:36.261 --> 31:36.441 [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. 31:36.882 --> 31:37.162 [SPEAKER_01]: You know. 31:37.562 --> 31:39.043 [SPEAKER_00]: That's totally make sense. 31:39.144 --> 31:40.845 [SPEAKER_01]: I admire the people who they can do it. 31:41.646 --> 31:46.730 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, I even see that my, our, our friend Neil coming more, like, he does it. 31:47.291 --> 31:48.712 [SPEAKER_01]: He's grinding nonstop. 31:49.293 --> 31:54.978 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but he does make time here and there to do some creative stuff, just for shits and giggle. 31:55.718 --> 31:58.441 [SPEAKER_01]: and it's necessary. 32:01.383 --> 32:09.931 [SPEAKER_00]: I do wish I had that focus to be able to okay but now I can do this now let's really double down and just make it great. 32:10.412 --> 32:16.537 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas I've got this this brain where I sort of I was on a learn something new, I always want to learn something new, learn it, 32:17.682 --> 32:33.935 [SPEAKER_00]: to a point where I can do it, not necessarily be an expert in it, but I can do it, and then I want to send the else, you know, but yeah, people who, you know, I mean, Jeff's good example of that, you know, he's worked on what his business is, and they just grind on, they just crack on crack on crack on crack on crack on. 32:34.476 --> 32:38.239 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's, yeah, I just don't, I don't work that way, is a human, you know. 32:38.779 --> 32:58.086 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and well, and I've, you know, I've been struggling with burnout myself personally and one of the ways that I've been working to battle that has been to like look at my work under a microscope not literally, but just like trying to find micro ways to improve on my process. 32:58.886 --> 33:06.294 [SPEAKER_01]: and becoming more curious about that has helped me to see it kind of like in a new light in a way. 33:06.415 --> 33:14.864 [SPEAKER_01]: So instead of just kind of going through the motions over and over and over doing the same processes, I'm trying to pay attention to even just like, 33:16.125 --> 33:19.327 [SPEAKER_01]: How sharp are the drill bits and how efficiently are they cutting through the canot? 33:19.527 --> 33:23.950 [SPEAKER_01]: What can I do to take just a couple minutes to sharpen a bit? 33:24.030 --> 33:29.574 [SPEAKER_01]: That will make a huge difference in the production and how quickly you can go through and drill all your holes and all that kind of stuff. 33:29.894 --> 33:30.695 [SPEAKER_01]: The efficiency. 33:31.355 --> 33:36.118 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, just trying to figure out those small efficiencies and find tuning in my process. 33:37.819 --> 33:39.140 [SPEAKER_01]: But, other ways. 33:40.055 --> 33:45.298 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I thought you had a, no, it's a call policy in the marine edge yet. 33:45.438 --> 33:45.938 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 33:45.998 --> 33:46.478 [SPEAKER_00]: No, not me. 33:46.938 --> 33:47.559 [SPEAKER_01]: Not me. 33:47.759 --> 33:47.959 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 33:47.979 --> 33:48.519 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 33:48.599 --> 33:52.161 [SPEAKER_01]: I, I, I find that I have to, I got to look at it a lot closer. 33:52.241 --> 33:53.742 [SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, I get fucking bored. 33:54.302 --> 33:55.543 [SPEAKER_01]: I get so bored with it. 33:56.518 --> 34:04.700 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then I start to feel burned out because then I'm just doing, I'm just, it just becomes drudgery and I'm just doing the same shit over and over again and it becomes very unfulfilling. 34:04.760 --> 34:14.443 [SPEAKER_01]: Even though I'm like, yeah, able to earn it, it, it, a living from it, ultimately like why we are so the idea that making money should be the end of all be all of our existence. 34:14.543 --> 34:15.843 [SPEAKER_01]: That is not fucking it. 34:16.363 --> 34:16.943 [SPEAKER_01]: For sure. 34:17.764 --> 34:18.224 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 34:18.324 --> 34:19.304 [SPEAKER_00]: No, that's the problem. 34:19.324 --> 34:21.565 [SPEAKER_00]: When a hobby becomes a job isn't it? 34:21.605 --> 34:22.665 [SPEAKER_00]: Because then over certain. 34:23.661 --> 34:30.129 [SPEAKER_00]: that the fun of the hobby turns into stresses of, this is a job, and we get that question so many times. 34:30.149 --> 34:34.855 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been doing this as a side hustle for a few years, and I'm ready to go full time. 34:34.975 --> 34:35.736 [SPEAKER_00]: Am I ready yet? 34:35.756 --> 34:38.219 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, well, we can never give that advice. 34:38.600 --> 34:40.382 [SPEAKER_00]: But that's always something to consider that. 34:40.642 --> 34:42.204 [SPEAKER_00]: If you find it, it fun is a hobby. 34:43.258 --> 34:47.863 [SPEAKER_00]: maybe that could be taken away a bit when you're, you know, your bills are demanding. 34:48.644 --> 34:48.884 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. 34:48.904 --> 34:51.887 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that's now your job, but that's not your hobby, you know? 34:52.368 --> 34:52.748 [SPEAKER_01]: For sure. 34:53.189 --> 35:05.502 [SPEAKER_01]: The business of running a business, the business of, especially if you start to do like some sort of production work, doing repetitive stuff over, which you and Jeff, for sure, and I are more familiar with. 35:05.962 --> 35:17.433 [SPEAKER_01]: But I honestly have a sense of familiarity to that with my background working for Bob Grimer, but also like making essentially the same style in life for less, whatever, 13 years. 35:18.755 --> 35:23.680 [SPEAKER_01]: There have been small evolutions and it has evolved the shape of the handle and the grind of the blade. 35:24.320 --> 35:36.948 [SPEAKER_01]: The cleanliness of the patterns and even the etch, but I'm constantly still looking at little stuff trying like I get really great Damascus answers But I'm still like I wonder what happens if I do this what can how can I improve this here? 35:37.348 --> 35:47.115 [SPEAKER_01]: I can improve that there And sometimes their dead ends often like especially yeah, and honestly like to me I'm trying to prove to myself that I did figure it out because 35:48.275 --> 36:01.429 [SPEAKER_01]: Part of me doesn't want to believe that I figured out like what is the most optimal for my process and so I do a small experimentation just to figure out if that actually is the truth or not and without doing it, you don't know. 36:02.561 --> 36:05.403 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that keeps it fresh, because you're learning something and all the rest of it. 36:05.443 --> 36:08.186 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, make sense, make me think of myself, make mistakes. 36:08.726 --> 36:09.447 [SPEAKER_01]: Makes me think, yeah. 36:10.367 --> 36:12.149 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's just to change it up as well. 36:12.169 --> 36:13.010 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, make sense. 36:13.710 --> 36:19.094 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, I want to tell everybody all about Texas Farrow Supply, because they have everything you need. 36:19.275 --> 36:23.138 [SPEAKER_00]: Texas Farrow Supply.com, whether you're a maker, a Farrier. 36:24.316 --> 36:28.018 [SPEAKER_00]: I and Worker, or wherever you want to call yourself, they've got all the tools that you need there. 36:28.498 --> 36:33.141 [SPEAKER_00]: Head to Nocturtext as far as supply.com, because we can get your discounts. 36:33.401 --> 36:42.565 [SPEAKER_00]: Firstly, I can tell you all about Rhino Wet first, because they sell Rhino Wet, and we all do hands-and-end, and we all hate hands-and-end, but Rhino Wet makes it that little bit easier. 36:44.226 --> 36:48.789 [SPEAKER_00]: It also saves us money because it's a great great paper that lasts far longer than any other paper that I've ever used. 36:49.549 --> 36:51.951 [SPEAKER_00]: So I had an over two Texas Farrow Supply.com. 36:52.451 --> 36:59.935 [SPEAKER_00]: Get some Rhino wet if you're hand-sand in and you can get 10% off the entire order by using knife-talk a checkout. 37:00.195 --> 37:02.397 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a Texas Farrow Supply.com. 37:02.737 --> 37:05.939 [SPEAKER_00]: Use knife-talk a checkout and get 10% off your entire order. 37:07.602 --> 37:17.064 [SPEAKER_01]: Also seeing shatter for people who want to start planning that looks like they have a the cowtown custom knife show Yeah, over third and fourth. 37:17.124 --> 37:17.984 [SPEAKER_01]: It's at fourth work. 37:18.084 --> 37:28.006 [SPEAKER_01]: Fort Worth stockyards It's an all custom blade show that you don't want to miss you can get more information at cowtown custom knife show dot com. 37:28.026 --> 37:33.247 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all one word And it's the only all custom knife shown to protect this. 37:33.327 --> 37:35.648 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, go check them out for more information 37:36.388 --> 37:38.028 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, they got all the details there. 37:38.188 --> 37:40.689 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, cow town custom knife show dot com. 37:41.689 --> 37:43.110 [SPEAKER_00]: Nice nice show. 37:43.130 --> 37:43.890 [SPEAKER_00]: We do some questions. 37:44.310 --> 37:47.551 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what we normally do when Jeff isn't here. 37:47.711 --> 37:49.631 [SPEAKER_00]: We we go to all of the questions. 37:49.651 --> 37:54.172 [SPEAKER_00]: So when he comes back, there's nothing for real for all and he's panicking there. 37:54.192 --> 37:55.793 [SPEAKER_00]: Like hey, send us some questions. 37:58.855 --> 38:04.884 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, if you've got questions for us, we are knife talk, podcast, on Instagram, DM those questions or even audio. 38:04.904 --> 38:12.835 [SPEAKER_00]: If you've got audio for us, send it over and caffeine for caffeine forage on Instagram, send it to the question. 38:13.873 --> 38:33.539 [SPEAKER_00]: Said the conversation around Lego and creativity made me curious about what advice you would have for someone who views their tools equipment as too precious or expensive to modify Even if would make things easier in the long run Thank you That's a good one That's a good one You know what I had this conversation with my wife earlier because 38:34.559 --> 38:40.401 [SPEAKER_00]: I had the I get this this incredible rush when I buy mode buy-in stuff and I'm always getting in trouble for buy-in stuff Just that buy-in stuff. 38:40.421 --> 38:53.045 [SPEAKER_00]: There's Amazon at the door again and all the rest Because when I buy something I don't see it as a value after For example, I've got a whole workshop now in France I don't even live in the country anymore. 38:53.065 --> 38:55.126 [SPEAKER_00]: My wife is like why don't you sell some of that stuff? 38:55.626 --> 39:00.048 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like it doesn't occur to me that there's a value outside of myself 39:02.189 --> 39:13.466 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think this is quite a link but a question really, you know, people who don't want to modify their stuff because it's precious and expensive and it has this value which maybe they could sell on or wherever. 39:15.152 --> 39:21.078 [SPEAKER_00]: Unfortunately, I don't, yeah, I feel really top of it once I get something. 39:21.098 --> 39:22.279 [SPEAKER_00]: I think I can modify this. 39:22.319 --> 39:23.040 [SPEAKER_00]: This is mine now. 39:23.160 --> 39:26.083 [SPEAKER_00]: And it'll have no value to anybody else, right? 39:26.163 --> 39:27.224 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is a bit weird, I know. 39:27.284 --> 39:28.365 [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, how do you feel? 39:28.385 --> 39:30.047 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you modify a lot of your equipment. 39:30.608 --> 39:32.389 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, I'm constantly modifying stuff. 39:33.310 --> 39:33.891 [SPEAKER_01]: Constantly. 39:34.832 --> 39:37.715 [SPEAKER_01]: I think, especially if it's not going to do anything, there's... 39:39.635 --> 39:45.697 [SPEAKER_01]: to overly, I guess, I don't know, like a fact of the value. 39:46.777 --> 40:00.902 [SPEAKER_01]: Ideally, I'm trying to encourage value, but, you know, like some, most of the parts that I modify, they are replaceable, so if it's an issue, somebody can either replace it if they don't like it for whatever reason, but most of them, 40:02.522 --> 40:06.284 [SPEAKER_01]: have a very solid purpose. 40:06.904 --> 40:14.047 [SPEAKER_01]: I will say that some of my platen, my tool arms have holes in them, that I've drilled and tapped myself for different attachments. 40:14.087 --> 40:16.428 [SPEAKER_01]: It's stuff that I've put into them. 40:17.168 --> 40:21.871 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, it doesn't sacrifice like the structural integrity of the thing. 40:21.891 --> 40:24.752 [SPEAKER_01]: It just does have an effect on the appearance, though. 40:25.612 --> 40:46.066 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but yeah, I don't know if it's gonna again, like this is where I'm trying to constantly kind of explore and experiment Especially when I'm Shaping a handle or or or contour or profiling a blade If I'm struggling to get into an area, I'm looking at I'm like, what the fuck am I gonna do to get in there and then I have an aha moment? 40:46.106 --> 40:48.688 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, well, let's do it and I just go for it 40:49.548 --> 40:56.273 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I guess I have, I don't know, I feel like the term audacity has been getting thrown around a lot. 40:56.934 --> 41:02.117 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I guess I have like an irreverence or kind of an audacity, just say, fuck it and do it. 41:02.678 --> 41:05.139 [SPEAKER_01]: And deal with the consequences later. 41:06.020 --> 41:15.907 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but you know, if it's going to be an expensive thing, then maybe I'll be a little bit more thoughtful, careful about that, or maybe talk to some people before I do a modification or change. 41:17.716 --> 41:28.246 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of the time, most of the modifications I've made have to do with my grinder and how I use my grinder to sculpt my knives and shape my blades and grind my blades and stuff like that. 41:28.366 --> 41:29.067 [SPEAKER_01]: But so far. 41:29.327 --> 41:30.769 [SPEAKER_01]: And what grind did it use? 41:31.329 --> 41:35.313 [SPEAKER_01]: I used the broadband grinder and it was great to go see our boys over at the show. 41:35.413 --> 41:36.534 [SPEAKER_01]: It was it was Brian. 41:37.555 --> 41:56.918 [SPEAKER_01]: uh uh or sorry Ben Ryan was not there uh but Ben and Matt that were there at the show and uh it was great to catch up with those guys it's a great grinder uh they had Matt Stagmer and Ben Abba actually doing some demonstrations at the show um it was really great to catch up with those guys as well 41:57.898 --> 42:13.050 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, but yeah, the the the granders is a machine that's designed by fellow knife maker and I think just like you would want a hunter design a chef's knife or a design a knife, you would want and a chef to help design a chef's knife. 42:13.911 --> 42:21.177 [SPEAKER_01]: You want a maker designing a grinder and it's really like this Swiss army knife for in the shop for me. 42:27.321 --> 42:34.164 [SPEAKER_01]: belt grinder and a slack belt and a small tool and having like all these different contact wheels it's a great machine to have in the shop. 42:34.564 --> 42:42.127 [SPEAKER_01]: If you go to broadbackironmore.com I don't know if you need to use knife-talk 10-it-check out but I can't remember but 42:42.967 --> 42:52.661 [SPEAKER_00]: You and you Craig you might I'm not sure they're not sure but what I don't always say is contact the guys abroad back anyway Yeah, um because they've all got different deals. 42:52.701 --> 42:58.049 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not kind of thing and yeah, they just It's up there deal with uh for blaze show Yeah 42:59.711 --> 43:09.135 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, you can obviously always help you with the decisions of what, you know, because they've got so many different accessories and that kind of thing, they can put together a package that'll perfectly suit you, you know. 43:09.515 --> 43:10.155 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure. 43:10.255 --> 43:15.978 [SPEAKER_01]: And they also have the three by 79, which is a big old bugger, great for, wow, last and out of the leads. 43:16.758 --> 43:17.298 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 43:17.318 --> 43:24.321 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, get over to broadbandback.com and check out all the different tools they got available for you. 43:29.837 --> 43:32.819 [SPEAKER_00]: Back to that thing about modifying things. 43:33.219 --> 43:36.401 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying this is what caffeine's forage is doing. 43:36.621 --> 43:43.946 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think a lot of people may be thinking how sort of Instagram or both their shop is, you know, and the aesthetics of everything. 43:44.786 --> 43:45.387 [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, nausea. 43:46.167 --> 44:00.807 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of the time, you've just got to do what works for you to make you more sort of productive surely, you know, but I can understand people thinking, but because I mean, I'd like things to look nice and things to look right, but I think, you know, 44:01.608 --> 44:05.632 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, workshop is maybe not the place for that really, a busy workshop, you know. 44:05.712 --> 44:14.980 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think you can have both, but yeah, I guess for me, I look at all my tools as tools, and I'm ready to beat the shit out of all of them. 44:15.500 --> 44:21.566 [SPEAKER_01]: Not unnecessarily, but if it's going to get the job done, I'm going to make a modification and a change. 44:22.426 --> 44:22.586 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 44:22.747 --> 44:22.947 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 44:23.695 --> 44:25.116 [SPEAKER_01]: So, yeah, I don't know. 44:25.476 --> 44:30.178 [SPEAKER_01]: For me, it's important that a tool, like functions as a tool first rather than just being pretty. 44:30.198 --> 44:36.462 [SPEAKER_01]: But I know, like, I can understand where somebody's coming from, especially when they first get something, you know. 44:38.063 --> 44:39.483 [SPEAKER_01]: It's easy to be precious about it. 44:40.464 --> 44:45.086 [SPEAKER_01]: But ultimately, it's gonna start collecting dust when you start grinding blades and it's getting dusty dirty. 44:45.567 --> 44:48.388 [SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna have, yeah, all kinds of funk and stuff on it. 44:48.548 --> 44:51.390 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just part of the progression of having that, 44:54.270 --> 45:18.872 [SPEAKER_01]: I would say, uh, yeah, when it comes to modifying, make sure it's, I don't know, it's kind of treat because I don't think, I don't know if there's anywhere where there's like a database of how to modify to do this, that or the other thing on your grinder, you know, and, um, but I guess looking around to see, um, if that same modification is done, if it actually works, 45:21.194 --> 45:38.899 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, like I do a lot of experimentation on my own, and sometimes tough works, sometimes it doesn't, but I got to try it, you know, because again, for me, that's, that's itching that curiosity, that novelty, that exploratory kind of experimentation side of my brain. 45:39.619 --> 45:48.922 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'd rather learn something than to, I guess, kind of float around in the wondering of whether what it's done, so I needed it to do 45:50.949 --> 45:54.512 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I think that comes down to sort of making tools that you need as well. 45:54.532 --> 45:59.575 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, I've made so many jakes for certain small tasks that make things a lot easier. 46:01.317 --> 46:04.579 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think, you know, you've got to do what suits you. 46:04.599 --> 46:05.700 [SPEAKER_00]: Not everybody makes in the same way. 46:05.720 --> 46:07.121 [SPEAKER_00]: You've got to do what suits you. 46:07.221 --> 46:11.284 [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, if that means modifying, you know, something that's shiny and new. 46:12.365 --> 46:14.346 [SPEAKER_00]: If it makes you a better maker, go ahead, go do it. 46:15.807 --> 46:18.069 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to take the next one from Jamie Bidolf? 46:19.100 --> 46:19.300 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 46:19.700 --> 46:20.961 [SPEAKER_01]: This one from Jane. 46:21.161 --> 46:21.401 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 46:21.581 --> 46:22.102 [SPEAKER_01]: How do you say? 46:22.262 --> 46:22.642 [SPEAKER_01]: Biddles? 46:23.162 --> 46:23.422 [SPEAKER_01]: Jamie. 46:23.502 --> 46:24.263 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think. 46:24.283 --> 46:26.964 [SPEAKER_01]: Biddles. 46:27.004 --> 46:27.284 [SPEAKER_01]: Damn it. 46:27.304 --> 46:28.445 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm choking on everything today. 46:29.145 --> 46:30.646 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 46:30.786 --> 46:36.149 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone else getting the daily multiple friend requests from all these exotic wood dealers or handle materials. 46:36.569 --> 46:37.390 [SPEAKER_01]: It's constant. 46:38.533 --> 47:00.825 [SPEAKER_01]: uh... he says i'm a new knife i'm new to knife making i'm trying to build a following because obviously it's easier with social media obviously it's very slow but it's annoying is how when you get an notification it's just one of those uh... i don't want uh... or one of those perfect wood perverts instead of uh... somebody who wants to uh... buy your stuff so um... 47:01.908 --> 47:17.740 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I have been actually getting a lot of those lately, and I honestly, especially if it's a new account or it looks fishy, I just blocked it but we all know that I'm very block happy, but I just don't say pins, they're the worst. 47:18.141 --> 47:18.381 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 47:18.921 --> 47:19.322 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah. 47:20.643 --> 47:38.756 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we've had there been some people who've gotten screwed over by some of these customers They place this I would suggest you know if you're looking for a reliable Resource for consumables like pens would handle I'm sorry handle material any kind of Accessorizing that's gonna be used in your handle 47:39.556 --> 47:45.661 [SPEAKER_01]: You want to go to a reliable resource and we got those with our guys with our maritime knife supply, Texas Fairies Supply. 47:46.142 --> 47:47.763 [SPEAKER_01]: They're great resources for that. 47:48.844 --> 47:53.588 [SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, you might be kind of a role of the dice, really. 47:53.808 --> 48:00.173 [SPEAKER_01]: If you're trying, and honestly, often people are trying to sell saved a couple bucks here, a couple bucks there. 48:00.914 --> 48:02.255 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not really worth it. 48:02.315 --> 48:03.776 [SPEAKER_01]: I think for the 48:09.547 --> 48:33.540 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we talked earlier about trusted suppliers and I think particularly if you're new and you're trying to get, you know, a supply list of you know, I get that from there, that from there, that from there, it can be easy, it can be, you know, really easy to be sort of fooled, but yeah, they are relentless, let particularly those customers ape in ones and you just said, you know, I'm new to knife making your fresh meat for them there be all, yeah, that vampire, yeah. 48:35.491 --> 48:39.134 [SPEAKER_00]: We got a new one, a big bell goes off some more, and he said, Yeah, that's something they're all there. 48:39.974 --> 48:43.076 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 48:43.156 --> 48:45.978 [SPEAKER_00]: The next one is from, I think, it's two tons knives. 48:47.439 --> 48:47.560 [SPEAKER_00]: OK. 48:47.740 --> 48:53.424 [SPEAKER_00]: I see a lot of knife makers share their process online, and often the blade looks pretty rough coming off the bell grinder. 48:53.944 --> 48:55.845 [SPEAKER_00]: Then the next step, it's perfectly smooth. 48:56.746 --> 49:04.892 [SPEAKER_00]: Are they already getting the blade flattered the grinder and just removing directional scratches by hands and in, or am I underestimating how much hands and in is involved? 49:05.592 --> 49:09.414 [SPEAKER_00]: Also it's okay to start hand sanding before the blade is fully flat. 49:10.135 --> 49:12.576 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got a funny feeling We did this a week or two ago. 49:12.856 --> 49:18.980 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got a funny feeling you guys might have I I wasn't I might not have been there for that one All right, okay, okay. 49:19.040 --> 49:20.381 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you're perfect to answer this then 49:20.641 --> 49:20.981 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 49:21.001 --> 49:32.663 [SPEAKER_01]: Sure, my take, my guess, especially if it's somebody's content on their page is they're not showing all the grinding because I'll tell you what you see 10 seconds of grinding you've basically seen it all. 49:32.703 --> 49:44.806 [SPEAKER_01]: It's fucking boring and so they're probably doing the first bit of grinding it looks rough and then boom yeah you jump to and I think they're probably playing on the assumption that whoever's watching knows what they're seeing. 49:45.346 --> 49:45.666 [SPEAKER_01]: I think 49:47.286 --> 49:59.711 [SPEAKER_01]: Depending on the audience, that might be a safe assumption to be making, but especially if they're not makers, and I would hope that you're trying to get non-makers Potentially buyers to be looking at your content. 50:00.251 --> 50:11.575 [SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't hurt to throw in a quick I went through this progression bump up up up up up up up up and now I'm ready to hands in my guess is there are skipping all that the grinding progressions and going 50:12.135 --> 50:37.166 [SPEAKER_01]: Going straight to the next phase essentially from the from the blade grinding to the next phase, which is hand sanding and then yeah, but yeah, I think I Try for myself personally my grinding progression is I go from 36 to 60 to 120 to 220 every once in a while if I have the bait belts, I'll jump between 50:38.787 --> 51:07.016 [SPEAKER_01]: 80 or sorry, 60 and 120 with an 80 grid or 100 grid belt, yeah, and then from 120 to 220 with like a 150 or something or 180, I think there's also available, but I found that even though it feels annoying to constantly be changing belts out, if you're only using the belt to get the scratches out that it needs to get out. 51:07.916 --> 51:10.398 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, then you're actually going to be more efficient. 51:10.438 --> 51:15.942 [SPEAKER_01]: What I mean is like, I used to go from 60 to 220. 51:16.323 --> 51:21.286 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm trying to get that 220 belt to do the work of. 51:21.306 --> 51:26.951 [SPEAKER_01]: Or 100 or 120 or one fifth, or 180 before it finally gets up to the 220. 51:27.011 --> 51:28.151 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's. 51:29.117 --> 51:48.573 [SPEAKER_01]: It's way faster, and honestly, I think more efficient, especially with the belts to have more belts in your progression, but right now, yeah, my progression is 3660, 120, 220, and 400. 51:48.613 --> 51:53.657 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm trying to go off the belt as high as I've comfortably can before I start the hands hitting. 51:54.198 --> 51:55.119 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. 51:56.867 --> 51:58.948 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think most people are probably running about the same. 52:01.129 --> 52:06.091 [SPEAKER_00]: I was never brave enough to go with 36 or just go with 60s just because I'm taking neck off one of them. 52:06.331 --> 52:07.712 [SPEAKER_00]: They were, yeah, yeah. 52:07.752 --> 52:18.317 [SPEAKER_00]: But again, sort of 3, 2, 400 would be the maximum really on the belt, because by that time your belt gets super, super thin, where that tape is, you know, you get that little bump, you know? 52:18.357 --> 52:21.158 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, it's best to then get off the hands and then. 52:21.498 --> 52:24.139 [SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, it depends what you do in as well. 52:27.442 --> 52:32.126 [SPEAKER_00]: It's closely linked with the next question, actually, about your finish. 52:32.146 --> 52:36.430 [SPEAKER_00]: So we just go straight to the next question is from Tree Swift Goods. 52:37.451 --> 52:39.292 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, Hi, hopefully you're relatively quick question. 52:39.552 --> 52:45.697 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm definitely into the world of Darmasteele and wanted to be had any recommendations for getting a mirror polish prior to etch in. 52:46.258 --> 52:48.700 [SPEAKER_00]: I've just bought a buff in wheel attachment by my grinder. 52:49.280 --> 52:50.681 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, into the ad here. 52:50.761 --> 52:57.204 [SPEAKER_00]: So I guess when you bought a brought back, um, for carbon Damascus, I'm usually hand-sand up to 1,000 grit. 52:57.985 --> 52:59.946 [SPEAKER_00]: How can I go from this to a mirror polish? 53:00.386 --> 53:03.728 [SPEAKER_00]: Recommendations for Bethlehem wheels and polishing compounds would be appreciated. 53:04.208 --> 53:07.850 [SPEAKER_00]: Give to myself up to Domestyle build along using some offcuts from Domestyle. 53:08.630 --> 53:10.512 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for the years of entertainment company in the workshop. 53:10.873 --> 53:11.874 [SPEAKER_00]: Hope things are well with you all. 53:11.914 --> 53:16.218 [SPEAKER_00]: That's Luke from Tree Swift Goods. 53:16.679 --> 53:24.928 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so he's gone from a hand-sand, and now he's looking to mirror a polish, particularly with Darmastille, and I'd say Fingo Ferguson is the man when it comes to that. 53:25.448 --> 53:41.497 [SPEAKER_00]: the finishes he gets on his down steel like quickly too is yeah it's it's unbelievable and I believe he's using buff and wheels with various compounds so you've got the gear you've got the stuff that you need but I think before you get that buff and wheel 53:42.177 --> 54:08.184 [SPEAKER_00]: Just don't cut corners on the on the hand sanding because that will show up any blemishes that you've got since you've got a buff and wheel It'll show any sort of difference or any small scratches So really don't cut corners and like we've just said don't make big big jumps Let's say from I don't know from 180 to sort of 400 You know you want you want to you want small steps and each time you get better and better and better and better 54:10.124 --> 54:12.991 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, buffin' wheels, be very careful. 54:13.111 --> 54:13.532 [SPEAKER_00]: Very good. 54:13.773 --> 54:14.655 [SPEAKER_00]: What I tend to do is, 54:17.287 --> 54:24.951 [SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, before putting a handle on, so I'm talking full time nice, before putting a handle on, let's say you've got holes in your tank for weight relief. 54:25.672 --> 54:30.335 [SPEAKER_00]: I generally use some like a tube two by four, screw the blade down through those holes. 54:30.795 --> 54:40.060 [SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't even need to be screwed down, as long as you have some screws or some pins on that tube by four, they can hold the blade onto, so it's not, it's not going to pull out of your hand. 54:41.992 --> 54:44.914 [SPEAKER_00]: you can get right in there then with the, with the, with the perfume wheel. 54:45.474 --> 54:50.637 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, doing it by hand, particularly if you're going to hand along, I think it's, you just, you're just going to have an accident at some point. 54:51.458 --> 54:53.579 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, so yeah, so just be really careful with that. 54:53.599 --> 54:58.742 [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, have a look at what finger focus and does, um, because his finishes with dark steel are incredible. 54:59.502 --> 55:00.263 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's super good. 55:00.804 --> 55:08.449 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I struggle with mirror finishes because while they look really nice the second anything gets on them. 55:08.929 --> 55:16.094 [SPEAKER_01]: They're going to start showing off or if you have a sheath or you know, accidentally robes like that's at blade show. 55:16.654 --> 55:22.658 [SPEAKER_01]: There were some people who were handling the knives who had rings on their fingers and scratches were coming up. 55:23.218 --> 55:25.380 [SPEAKER_01]: And so which is frustrating. 55:28.802 --> 55:38.032 [SPEAKER_01]: The thing is a great example of how to go through those progressions, but yeah, I think when you get up there, being safe is key. 55:39.828 --> 56:06.375 [SPEAKER_00]: yeah definitely definitely okay once we're talking about sharp blades you know how to get your blades really really sharp repeatable edges is with Tormack T or RMEK Tormack I think originally Swedish but they it's really got distributors in the US they're those you probably seen them they're the water wheels they turn really slowly stick them up on your desktop 56:07.835 --> 56:13.617 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, you've got jigs for them, so you can make everything repeatable and they're just great, they're quick. 56:14.457 --> 56:18.398 [SPEAKER_00]: Redically inexpensive for what we do and let's say you're doing a run of knives. 56:18.558 --> 56:22.399 [SPEAKER_00]: You know that every knife will be exactly the same because once you set up your angles, you're ready to go. 56:23.659 --> 56:28.060 [SPEAKER_00]: What's really great about those water wheels are is you have a dress in stone with them. 56:28.840 --> 56:45.390 [SPEAKER_00]: So you have, I think it's like a, I think it's an 800 grit and a 1,500 grit on the dress and stuff, so you dress this wheel to different grits, so you're just having to, you know, go back changing the wheels or like kind of stuff, you just use this dress and stuff, it's really, really fast. 56:45.791 --> 56:47.812 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's really therapeutic to do too. 56:48.753 --> 56:52.835 [SPEAKER_00]: If you've, yeah, if you've got an hour and you want to sharpen a bunch of knives on a tour Mac, it's actually quite fun. 56:57.718 --> 56:59.519 [SPEAKER_00]: and for all your sharpening needs. 56:59.960 --> 57:00.180 [SPEAKER_00]: No. 57:01.100 --> 57:01.821 [SPEAKER_00]: Should we do one more? 57:02.701 --> 57:03.362 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's do one more. 57:04.282 --> 57:08.445 [SPEAKER_01]: This one is from... Yeah, this one's from Sugarfree 92. 57:08.465 --> 57:09.486 [SPEAKER_01]: He says, quick question. 57:10.326 --> 57:12.368 [SPEAKER_00]: If I have... Would you like some post-ake pins? 57:12.388 --> 57:14.269 [SPEAKER_01]: Sounds a quick question. 57:14.589 --> 57:16.370 [SPEAKER_01]: That name sounds like one of those people, you know? 57:17.431 --> 57:18.292 [SPEAKER_01]: It does, for sure. 57:19.112 --> 57:37.381 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, he says, if I have handle materials, that's, wait, what, if I have handle material, that's not impregnated with cactus juice or whatever it's called, what could be the best finish in terms of protection for the handle in the long run. 57:37.641 --> 57:38.262 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks, fellas. 57:38.882 --> 57:51.455 [SPEAKER_01]: So basically handle material that hasn't been stabilized, there are definitely some handle materials that don't need stabilization or can't take stabilization because they are already highly residened dense. 57:52.216 --> 57:52.557 [SPEAKER_01]: What is it? 57:53.177 --> 57:58.383 [SPEAKER_01]: 100 and not 100, but Coca-Cola is one after Blackwood's another one. 57:59.063 --> 58:05.186 [SPEAKER_01]: Ironwood, snakewood, and even wool that as well, it can be beautiful, yeah, yeah, yeah. 58:05.346 --> 58:26.995 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is where you might take inspiration from other industries, and so gun stocks are not fully stabilized blocks of wood, and so they use a lot of different kind of finishes, one that I like in really enjoyed using was a tongue oil finish, and I've actually been thinking about going back to it, but it is a polymerizing 58:27.635 --> 58:32.656 [SPEAKER_01]: naturally occurring oil and polymerizing mediums. 58:32.756 --> 58:36.077 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to harden up, but yeah, you do a few coats of that. 58:36.337 --> 58:37.777 [SPEAKER_01]: It looks absolutely stunning. 58:37.877 --> 58:45.258 [SPEAKER_01]: Give it overnight to cure and you get a really great finish for them out of effort that you're putting into it. 58:46.258 --> 58:53.260 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can find tongue oil pretty readily available at most hardware stores in the wood finishing area, wood stains, 58:55.960 --> 58:58.301 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess, putty or a gap filler kind of stuff. 58:59.121 --> 59:06.743 [SPEAKER_01]: So, that was one that I really liked a lot that, again, it was very user friendly, low, low maintenance. 59:07.223 --> 59:16.745 [SPEAKER_01]: And also, honestly, something very easy, which is something I try to take in consideration when we make my knives, is what is going to be user friendly, literally user friendly? 59:16.805 --> 59:19.366 [SPEAKER_01]: What are my clients going to be able to do themselves? 59:19.426 --> 59:24.867 [SPEAKER_01]: And that is something that they can source on their own, if they want to touch up the 59:25.827 --> 59:29.790 [SPEAKER_01]: on their own for some reason, rather than sending the knife back for a spa day or something like that. 59:30.571 --> 59:33.153 [SPEAKER_01]: This is something that they can do themselves very easily. 59:34.148 --> 59:34.348 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 59:34.688 --> 59:34.889 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 59:35.389 --> 59:44.876 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's one of those things when people think of woods and think of hard woods and they think about stabilizing, but you're right, most don't take stabilizing very well anyway. 59:45.396 --> 59:45.877 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. 59:46.357 --> 59:52.902 [SPEAKER_00]: But generally the softer the wood is the more porous it's going to be and they'll do really well with stabilizing, you know? 59:53.342 --> 59:53.903 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. 59:54.563 --> 59:54.703 [SPEAKER_00]: But 59:56.207 --> 01:00:10.235 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're stabilizing and they're stabilizing, you know, you can buy yourself a kit that'll do a job or, you know, the big commercial people are using, you know, huge vacuum chambers, that can pull a real big vacuum and, you know, it's, it's a very different product. 01:00:11.696 --> 01:00:20.601 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so just be careful with, you know, if you're going to be doing it yourself weirdly depends where you live in the world as well, how much of a vacuum you can pull. 01:00:21.862 --> 01:00:34.931 [SPEAKER_00]: But the guards to your altar too, which is weird, but yeah, don't necessarily think if you're going to use hard work that it needs to be stabilized because as you said, a lot of those oily ones, they certainly don't. 01:00:35.211 --> 01:00:43.918 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I will say that something that I've been curious about trying to experiment with is something called wooden hardener, so it's kind of like, 01:00:45.679 --> 01:00:52.782 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of a superficial, superficial stabilization that you can do, but it's usually used. 01:00:53.462 --> 01:01:02.387 [SPEAKER_01]: I've seen it as advertised in an application to help with like rotting wood on a deck or something like that. 01:01:02.747 --> 01:01:06.032 [SPEAKER_01]: or a fence that you're not necessarily trying to repair right there. 01:01:06.152 --> 01:01:07.574 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, that's not a fix. 01:01:07.694 --> 01:01:16.966 [SPEAKER_01]: It's something that's going to be fixed later, but to reduce its deterioration, it penetrates into the wood and it polymerizes it. 01:01:17.106 --> 01:01:18.849 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a stabilization process. 01:01:18.909 --> 01:01:19.610 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a resin. 01:01:20.130 --> 01:01:37.662 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it uses a lot of like volatools to like that off gas and stuff like that and you want to be probably want to be careful with that, but it is interesting Is an interesting idea in regards to using that as a as a surface treatment that can penetrate into the woods somewhat 01:01:38.462 --> 01:01:52.850 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the same as the stabilization process, but if you are dead set on using a piece of handle material that comes from somebody's property or something like that and they don't want to stabilize or whatever, maybe in a rush or something like that. 01:01:53.330 --> 01:02:02.915 [SPEAKER_01]: That would hardener again is something that's usually pretty readily available, hardware stores might be interesting to experiment with, but that is the caveat that it will fail. 01:02:04.436 --> 01:02:06.257 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've never tried it before. 01:02:06.277 --> 01:02:10.579 [SPEAKER_01]: I have some, I haven't experimented with it hardly at all. 01:02:11.319 --> 01:02:15.661 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, nothing that justifies really like advising people to use it. 01:02:15.701 --> 01:02:18.022 [SPEAKER_01]: But it might, I think that there's potential there. 01:02:18.382 --> 01:02:20.583 [SPEAKER_01]: I just haven't dove too deep into it myself. 01:02:21.548 --> 01:02:21.768 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:02:22.068 --> 01:02:26.670 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see a lot of people who's in super glue-off, but I think you've got to see a glue don't you? 01:02:26.690 --> 01:02:27.530 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 01:02:28.590 --> 01:02:32.852 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, that polish is up really well to give it sort of hard skin over something. 01:02:33.232 --> 01:02:33.712 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. 01:02:33.752 --> 01:02:37.653 [SPEAKER_00]: But once that gets abused a bit, it can look pretty grubby, pretty quickly. 01:02:38.274 --> 01:02:38.414 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. 01:02:38.454 --> 01:02:40.734 [SPEAKER_00]: And go sort of whitish, shouldn't it? 01:02:41.015 --> 01:02:47.637 [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, for, you know, if you're just that initial polish to make it look great, it can be great for that, but yeah, and it might you handle 01:02:52.218 --> 01:02:53.219 [SPEAKER_00]: Shall we call it a day? 01:02:53.919 --> 01:02:54.460 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it. 01:02:55.220 --> 01:02:55.961 [SPEAKER_00]: Shall we call it a day? 01:02:56.021 --> 01:02:56.361 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 01:02:56.381 --> 01:02:57.842 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, we'll hope in next week. 01:02:57.862 --> 01:03:00.804 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure when Jeff is, but I soon will be back the next week. 01:03:00.824 --> 01:03:03.325 [SPEAKER_00]: I think he's been gone way over a week already, isn't he? 01:03:03.345 --> 01:03:04.506 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 01:03:05.046 --> 01:03:11.230 [SPEAKER_00]: But we'll hope in the three of us will be back together again soon, because the last, the last, I'd say a few months. 01:03:11.490 --> 01:03:13.511 [SPEAKER_00]: There's been stuff going on for us all. 01:03:13.932 --> 01:03:15.973 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's been two of us making a show each week. 01:03:16.553 --> 01:03:19.254 [SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully we get through you guys back again next week. 01:03:19.294 --> 01:03:26.998 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember get your questions over to us at knife-talk podcast on Instagram and we shall speak to you all very soon. 01:03:27.258 --> 01:03:27.878 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye for now.