[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the greatest parenting podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about how to prevent kids from leaving the church.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, there is a ton that you can do.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have to be that way for your family.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is one of those epidemics that has hit the church and over the last decade.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've seen this increasing problem where a kids are leaving the church by age 18.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we're talking about the two main things that we believe need to change be assessed.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of them is heavily on the parents the other is heavily on the body of Christ actually and so you know, do kids feel valued as a member of the body of Christ I think if that one thing hugely changed that would be huge and I think a parents took to heart What's in this episode you make a really big difference so buckled your seat belt enjoy the show I think this is the question that parents need to have an answer for need to know how they're doing with and a lot of people are asking right now
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, one of the statistics that we've talked about over the years is this, you know, it's different from denomination to denomination.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's somewhere between like 60 and 70% kids are leaving the church by age 18.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, that's part of why we started the courageous parenting ministry, just foundationally, we're like, it doesn't have to be this way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is this such a big problem?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so today, of course, we have to talk about this concept.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's two main points we're going to go over today that we believe are like at the core of what could prevent your children from leaving the church when they're older.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think this is a very like rudimentary, but very important conversation.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people in church leadership are also talking about this, like evaluating what can we do differently.
[SPEAKER_02]: And while we're not going to get into like the methodology of how church functions, I think that first and foremost, if kids are leaving the church by age 18, what is it that they're leaving?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are they leaving going to a building on Sundays?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or are they walking away from the faith?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's the first question I think that every parent needs to ask are my children on a road of faithfulness to God and do they have a personal relationship with him?
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to talk about that, um, that there's real faith, real relationship, and then the other aspect that we're going to dive into is our kids actually feeling valued like they're a valued part of the body of Christ.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and so they're like the the foundational things, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So two things, you know, which is more of the problem, the church or the home.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a trick question.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a trick question.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because technically, I think that if, you know, from God's word, what we see in God's word, both are somewhat responsible.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a responsibility on both, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: The body cries, the leaders, the shepherds, and people in the church.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's an element of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But discipleship of children is primarily the responsibility
[SPEAKER_00]: the parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's the home.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the home is a big part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Huge part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: The responsibility, according to the word, belongs with parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that we need to keep that responsibility there because that's biblical.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what does that look like, though, because you know, what's happening in the home then?
[SPEAKER_00]: or mix of what's happening in the home and their experience at church isn't working very well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it might also be what's not happening in the home, which I think is actually probably a bigger problem than what is happening in the home, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And what I mean by that is one of the biggest issues is that a lot of parents don't know how to disable their kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, let's just be honest, I'm working with older women also and talking about tightest two ministries with people and asking them if they would
[SPEAKER_02]: Mentor young women I oftentimes will get a blank stare or people will be like I don't know if I have much I can get and then when I get to it And I ask them okay, so discipleship have you ever disabled somebody most of the time They say no I have not and then if I say do you know how to disciple somebody they say no I do not
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very rare when you see a family or parents where generational faithfulness has been passed forward and discipleship has been passed forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the parents, a lot of parents today, I think to answer that, just don't know what to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: They've never seen it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They haven't been raised being discipled by the parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot's been just over delegated to churches and programs and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're not against those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just that the Bible says in Deuteronomy 69 to always be training your kids up in the words of God.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's just didn't happen.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like all the time when you sit, when you lie, when you stand at the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So largely that didn't happen in the previous generation, that's not passed on in the new generation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm gonna tell you right now, I hope the dads are listening, that that is not an excuse for behavior or poor discipleship in your family.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we just cannot accept those excuses because there's too much mistake.
[SPEAKER_00]: You literally have to go to war against your pastivity men.
[SPEAKER_00]: So important.
[SPEAKER_00]: And women need to be in courgers of their husbands.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to be also discipling children throughout the day and so forth.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just a really important thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you mentioned Deuteronomy chapter six, and I just want to read that verse for a second because I think that it shines a light on two problems distinctively that are at the core of the issue, the home discipleship issue, right Isaac?
[SPEAKER_02]: It says in verse six, and these words, I command you today, she'll be on your heart.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's actually speaking to the adults in the family in this in this, the adult is real lights.
[SPEAKER_02]: and then verse 7, you shall teach them diligently to your children and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise, you shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes and you shall write them on the door post of your house and on your gates.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know what's interesting the verse is just before that he says hero is real the Lord is your God the Lord is one You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your soul with all your might and and then he says in these commands I give you today.
[SPEAKER_02]: I command to you today.
[SPEAKER_02]: She'll be on your heart Here's the deal if you don't have real faith if you don't have real relationship with the Lord if you don't have
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're on a mission to impact 10 million legacies and we're so glad you're part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time you give a five-star review on Apple or YouTube or a comment or those kinds of things, you're sharing it.
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[SPEAKER_02]: This, loving the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your might.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if these words that God has commanded us today shall be in our heart, if they're not in our heart, like the parents' hearts, then clearly they can't disciple their children.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I understand why churches do more heavily focus on ministry to adults in a sense, because they understand that they're the ones that are teaching the younger ones.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if they pour biblical truth into them, then Lord willing those parents are pouring biblical truth into their children.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, this is the thing when it comes to the applicable, how do you apply the biblical truth that you're learning in a sermon on Sunday?
[SPEAKER_02]: For example, to everyday life with your kids, sometimes there isn't clear direction by the shepherd to those people.
[SPEAKER_02]: And sometimes there is, but then there's no accountability for the implementation of that, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: and for a lot of people, especially first generation Christians, which I think that there's a lot of that, they're like, how is this supposed to look?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm trying to undo the things I saw, but also try to figure out what I'm supposed to replace that with, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so what it does requires, obviously, this real faith of parents, first and foremost, because you can't lead your children to something that you are not.
[SPEAKER_02]: We always say that in parenting where the lid, like we are the lid to our kids' spiritual growth in a sense if we're the ones that are discipling them alone, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so you do need to be running the race.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is why it's important to be a part of biblical community and be running the race with other people who are sharpening you also that will be echoing the things that you're trying to teach your children so they're getting it from many different avenues.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the two keys are not performance space, but real faith in the home.
[SPEAKER_00]: The second one is value is part of the body of Christ.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's keep talking about this first one, not performance space, because I think that's the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we're not doing that, what you just talked about, then we're gonna gravitate towards performance-based expectations of our children when it comes to spiritual things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we are not living out being on fire for the Lord.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are gonna fall to rules.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and that dude around me sixth scripture that's like, when you sit, when you stand, when you rise, when you lie, it's all day long every day.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's not just saying to do those things, like to teach your kids, God's commandments, when you sit, when you stand, when you lie on Sunday.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's actually saying, like, the whole point is, you love the Lord with all your soul, with all your heart, with all your might.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's literally part of,
[SPEAKER_02]: it's you're all the time wanting to walk out your faith right and it's every day when you stand every day when you lie which is very different like the real faith that we're talking about and instilling in our kids versus performance base of just going to church on Sunday and maybe that's when you the only time you open your Bible maybe that's the only time you pray maybe that's the only time you worship
[SPEAKER_02]: if that's what you model for your children, then that's like that's not life-changing.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not attracted to them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why would they want to do that?
[SPEAKER_02]: To them it might seem like I I don't believe it's a waste of time, but to a child that sees that it's just to check off the box and that there's no actual transformation in their parents' lives.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it hasn't changed them when they sit when they stand, when they lie every other day, the week and what would be their motivation in wanting that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think everybody would raise their hand if you said, do you feel like a too busy?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you feel like you're exhausted just trying to do what you already are doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think everybody, if we were in a little group here together, you would raise your hand and go, yes, I feel that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so Isaac can answer, are you adding on to, I'm already exhausted.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think the answer is, I think this is true in business and leadership, it's true for each of us, is that you have to get really good at what you say no to and very careful about what you say yes to.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many options and so many pressures do all kinds of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the cultures of our church and in our family, it's always been really important as hospitality, because that's biblical.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's a great way to get to know other people, build relationships and community and so forth.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if we're not getting it right in our own home, you've heard us say that before about our children, getting it right with siblings before they give you things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, how about the family getting it right in the home before they're going and doing things with other families?
[SPEAKER_00]: how about getting it right in your own home before you're having people over in creating more busyness for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, maybe there needs to be a, let's shut some things down so that we can get it right and reorientate our family and create some better habits and new rhythms.
[SPEAKER_00]: of spiritual faithfulness and discipleship and worshiping the Lord together, reading the Word together, and I may stop right now, audit your week.
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the things you need to say no to so that you can say yes to your family in some new ways?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a matter of time, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a matter of fear, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a fear, especially some of the fathers that I've experienced this before and it's neat to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some fear, like busyness is comfortable because then I don't have to step up and actually teach the Bible or have those worship times.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you do some of them not educated and how to do this?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it could be for moms too.
[SPEAKER_00]: There could be some fear there of like, you know, we've never worshiped as a family before.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm not confident in my prayer life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hard to imagine a woman not being confident in the prayer life, seems like women are so good at it, but I'm sure that exists.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, when I think of real faith, I mean, there's these like three main spiritual disciplines.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a whole bunch of other things too that God wants to see growing in us, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But I would say like the most foundational things when you even are, I think it's important that parents assess, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: We talk about auditing culture.
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the phrases that for me has always been a phrase that what I think of as the mom, I'm like the doctor mom and my family, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: When it comes to their health.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then I also have taken on the jurisdiction of, I'm also the spiritual thermometer, because I'm with my kids the most.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's like, what is the spiritual thermometer?
[SPEAKER_02]: Where is their heart right now?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is their heart self-focused on the flesh?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or are they walking in the spirit like, can I see evidence of God leading them in the way that they're being kind to one another or the way that they are interacting or the way that they're having integrity and doing their chores or their schoolwork, whatever it is, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I evaluate and assess the spiritual condition of where my kids are at, but
[SPEAKER_02]: But you have to take the rose tinted glasses off.
[SPEAKER_02]: We see that almost every single episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think if there was a t-shirt or a hat in the head glasses and it said, rose tinted glasses up, that'd be a good one.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you can't assess if there is a need to have a salvation conversation with your child, for example.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, here's the deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: When it comes down to it at the end of the day, do we go to church and are we seeing with our kids and that maybe worship is happening?
[SPEAKER_02]: and some kids are standing there and they're not worshiping God.
[SPEAKER_02]: This was something that we just talked about at church with some women at our church.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like if your kids are not worshiping instead of tapping them and going, hey, hey, it's time, it's time to worship, put your day, worship.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that is more of a,
[SPEAKER_02]: performance based like your pushing them to do something that obviously their heart doesn't want to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: If their heart wanted to do it, you would not have to get, you wouldn't have to remind them they're literally standing in the middle of a congregation where they're singing happening and praising God like they know what's happening around them, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Now sometimes with like my younger kids, they get distracted by something like if someone gives them a little toy
[SPEAKER_02]: They want to look in the new Bible or whatever it is, and I want to remind him and go, hey, and a few minutes right now, it's time, it's time for worship and they go, oh, oh, oh, oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I know where their heart is, because I hear them throughout the week singing while they're doing dishes or singing while they're putting their socks away, and they're singing worship music.
[SPEAKER_02]: But this is the thing, when it comes to home discipleship and worship specifically,
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't have to take a ton of extra time.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can have worship music playing while you're doing the things that you normally would do throughout your day.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can have the worship music playing in your home and those songs are becoming memorized and written on your children's hearts as they're hearing it all throughout the house throughout the day.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just part of what you're already doing all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't take extra time when it comes to that kind of stuff.
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[SPEAKER_02]: Isaac's talking about as far as like coming together and worshiping the Lord.
[SPEAKER_02]: like if worship of the Lord is important to you and if it's important to your children then and saying hey let's all gather I think it would be really good if we just we took a deep breath and we remember what life is really all about right now and we remember like let's just recalibrate and remember like we should be thankful that God gave us another day let's just praise him and sing a couple worship songs together.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we did the other night and even went and got his guitar out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you should be able to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, we don't do it as much as I would like.
[SPEAKER_02]: We used to do it more often.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've gone through different seasons where we'll do that authentically more.
[SPEAKER_02]: But here's the deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not about performance.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's about desire and what the desires of your heart are.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so as parents like we, if we don't want a performance based religion in our kids,
[SPEAKER_02]: then we need to usher them into and invite them into what it looks like by just openly worshiping God yourself and letting them see that and witness it and just pay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a good really good thing right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think to really simply, if
[SPEAKER_00]: if your child isn't wanting to worship, then there's some issue with their heart or they're not comfortable, but there's some issue with comfortability or they're confident, they don't know how to sing or they don't feel comfortable singing around other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: All those things are fine, you just need to be able to talk to them about it one-on-one with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was interesting because I was driving with one of our younger kids recently.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, there is time because I had this thought process like, oh, what could I talk to him about?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a 50 minute drive one way and 50 minute drive back after we do something.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I put the music on, but very low, so we could hear each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't take any phone calls.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody had calling me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't take them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Didn't call anybody because I was like, yeah, I'm gonna use this time.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like valuable time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And but but I found it even for me having done this a lot with lots of kids I struggle a little bit sometimes to come up with the questions to ask or how to cultivate the right conversation, but but then I started doing it and it was really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, hey, how's your walk with the Lord going?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, how's this going or how's that going or what do you think about this and just asking questions and keeping the child talking and getting a little deeper and deeper and deeper and then more you do that with each child, the deeper your relationship about spiritual things is becoming and you need to have a really strong one-on-one relationship with each of your children in terms of talking about spiritual things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you exercise that muscle with them and take full advantage of that stopping busy, stop thinking about your agenda, stop thinking stressed and thinking of all things you have going on instead focus in.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I did two drives one day focused in and we're closer to number.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I learned some things that were valuable and I was actually so pleased with what I heard.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so thankful for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, but I think that at the end of the day when we're talking about real faith with our kids, it goes beyond that Sunday, you even mentioned that in the last two sermons that you mentioned, like, are you a Sunday Christian or are you a Christ follower?
[SPEAKER_02]: And that there's a difference.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a difference because being a Christ follower, you have a relationship with Christ, you want to spend time with Him.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what are the spiritual dispensers?
[SPEAKER_02]: Prayer, there's worship, there's reading the Bible, studying the Bible.
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you communicate with God?
[SPEAKER_02]: prayer and reading His words to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the Bible is God's words to you, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So reading the word teaches you.
[SPEAKER_02]: It gives you instruction.
[SPEAKER_02]: It guides you.
[SPEAKER_02]: What does the Bible say?
[SPEAKER_02]: Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, a light unto my path.
[SPEAKER_02]: It shows you the way to go in the way not to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of wisdom in God's word because he cares for us and he has a plan for our life and the same as true for our children.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if your kids understand like God loves me, he died for me, who else would die for them?
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe a parent, like having that conversation with your kids like where they go, okay, so I wanna spend time on my friends, but will my friends die for me?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, but Jesus would die for me, so I actually pursuing a relationship with the one who died for me and wanting to read the Bible and then letting that transform your thoughts your mind, your will.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so important to think about what they actually are doing when nobody's looking on their own decision making.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that really determines whether you have performance-based faith culture in your home or if you have real faith happening in your home.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they a lot of parents are tricked.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're so busy.
[SPEAKER_00]: They just assume there's real faith happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody knows the right words.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody puts on the face.
[SPEAKER_00]: They go to church.
[SPEAKER_00]: They, you know, can talk to talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: They maybe even once in a while study the Bible together.
[SPEAKER_00]: But is there any real personal relationship with Jesus happening with your children?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what you want to find out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was so pleased in this drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you know, how are you doing, you know, are you reading the word?
[SPEAKER_00]: He goes, oh, yeah, I just started the book of Samuel last week, and then I'm like, Really?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's an interesting book to start for a young lad and that's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I go, when you tell me what you're learning so far and then you just start spouting off all these things he's learning, and I'm like, wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I go, do you want to learn an instrument?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he does other things, but he hasn't really focused on the instrument side of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: He goes, well actually, I'm already learning guitar, you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Ethan's been teaching me guitar.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we every single day, I practice for 20 minutes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm just like, I am like blown away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like these things are happening in his own accord.
[SPEAKER_00]: With his brother, not instituted by the parents and his worship music that he's learning.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you didn't even know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even know.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so funny because, well, but again, it comes down to their heart posture, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where real faith is.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess their heart do they have a relationship with the Lord?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if they do, then they're going to be drawn to things like prayer and worship and knowing the word and reading the word.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, in fact, reading the word, I want to go to Romans 12 because I think that this is one of the best verses for kind of that assessment of where my kids out because we actually are called to judge the fruit.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, if our kids are saying that they're Christian, because you have to be realistic.
[SPEAKER_02]: You have to ask hard questions, but if you don't know the hard questions to ask, then maybe it's because you haven't really studied your child.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, it says in Romans 12, I appeal to you, therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do your kids know that their spiritual worship, same for you, same for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Our spiritual worship is to present our bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God.
[SPEAKER_02]: What does that mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it just says, it continues, it says, do not be conformed to this world, that be transformed by the renewal of your mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: that is that by testing, you may discern what is the will of God, what is good, and acceptable, and perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, having these conversations with our kids, where one of them comes home from work, and he's like, yeah, some of the guys at work, me and they just have dirty mouths, or whatever, right, and they start sharing things like to me, it's hard for a son or daughter to be in an environment where there are people who have zero self-control over their tongue.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't know the
[SPEAKER_02]: They are, they are of the world, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But here I have this strong, I know he is strong and the, in the Lord, because he is discerning between light and darkness and he's exposing evil by communicating what evil is happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I see him discerning.
[SPEAKER_02]: I see him acknowledging the difference between good and evil, which is what this is talking about, because by testing you may discern what is the will of God.
[SPEAKER_02]: He knows that it's not the will of God that people would be acting and talking and treating
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so like that's just one little way that you can tell where is that person's heart at?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because they're agitated by darkness and evil.
[SPEAKER_02]: We should be as Christians agitated by darkness and evil, not participating in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so as parents, that's one thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can test a faith as real because are your kids agitated by darkness or they participate.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's another wrinkle to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could be walking stoned with the lure, but not courageous, not brave enough, not more of a follower than a leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you need to work that in them too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to pause for a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: They need courageous parenting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Probably most of you already bought it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's doing so well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hit number one and a couple spots on Amazon.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where you can get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the first section, there's four sections, and there's a marriage challenge after each section.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I always want to read,
[SPEAKER_00]: The first seven chapters here courageous parenting on person in times then chapter two is all about ready to stand for him in the faith But first seven chapters the stronger relationship that's required.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just touched on it today Effective home discipleship boom right there for further the husband and for the wife both in there That's the benefit of both of us writing it nourish a strong prayer life together growing a strong team for the Lord the family rhythm that crushes pride Because they're not gonna grow and learn from you if they have pride
[SPEAKER_00]: Cultivating an unwavering identity and Christ.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, and then a marriage challenge after that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That one section makes the book worth it, but there's three other sections that are also just as valuable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: About all the things that it takes to be a local parenting unprecedented.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so really good stuff there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's go into the second reason.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've talked a lot at length about real faith.
[SPEAKER_02]: We also, I just want to bring up in the book at the end of every chapter.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have podcast episodes that go along with those chapters.
[SPEAKER_02]: And most of our podcast episodes have been around 45 minutes through now.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of teaching a lot of scripture in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a podcast episode that we could point to, called instilling real faith in your children.
[SPEAKER_02]: That one has totally,
[SPEAKER_02]: done super well even on YouTube.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're not a part of our YouTube channel, go and subscribe to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's another one that's talking about not having performance-based acceptance of yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's many podcast episodes on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But let's talk about the second one, which is being a valued part of the body.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I think of kids leaving the church by age 18, there's a few like culture, church culture.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not talking about individual local churches.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm talking about the body of Christ, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: The church is actually the people in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: we are the church.
[SPEAKER_02]: You are the church.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you are a Christ follower, we are all the church, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, we got that under control.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, does the church meaning do you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do we value children as a part of the body of Christ?
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to read from Matthew chapter 18 verse 10, it says, see that you didn't do not despise one of these little ones for I tell you that in heaven, their angels always see the face of my father who is in heaven.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it just continues down, it talks actually is important.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's talking about a shepherd.
[SPEAKER_02]: If a man has a hundred sheep and one of them goes astray, does he not lead the 99 on the mountains and go and search of the one that went astray?
[SPEAKER_02]: And if he finds it truly, I say to you, he rejoices over it more than over the 99 that never went astray.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is not the will of my father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is an important passage of scripture was literally talking about the little children that are in the flock.
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you catch that?
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a flock, a church, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: The church of God is the flock.
[SPEAKER_02]: Jesus is the shepherd.
[SPEAKER_02]: And one of those little sheep they wanted her to stray and he went and he got them and he's literally talking about one of these little ones.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is, these are Jesus' words in Matthew chapter 18.
[SPEAKER_02]: That is how Jesus views little children.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're just not, they're not children that are not a part of the body of Christ.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just put them over here.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, they are a part of the flock.
[SPEAKER_02]: and we need to treat them like they're a part of the flock.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that if there was an attitude shift in the church where adults did not only value people that were their age, but they also valued the young people and they try to make eye contact with them and talk to them just as much as they did the parents, while talking to the parents, that is appropriate and it's needed because in the children feel valued, they feel like, oh wow, this person actually noticed me, didn't just look overlook me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of young people feel overlooked today.
[SPEAKER_02]: I believe that there is a lie.
[SPEAKER_02]: I remember feeling this way myself at times when I was growing up, although I was so connected to so many people because of service.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I chose to go and do missions trips and serve and I got to know other people in the congregation that were all different ages and we were all working together to build these houses.
[SPEAKER_02]: But hey see, this is the whole point.
[SPEAKER_02]: as I was so connected to the people that I grew up going to church with, but it was because I served.
[SPEAKER_02]: So here's the question, are your kids allowed to serve in the church?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are they able to bring a contribution to God and feel like they're part of the team?
[SPEAKER_02]: I truly believe that if the church shifted out one thing, that the rates of kids walking away from the church by age 18 would diminish so drastically.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is the key thing is that they feel valued and loved by their family, because the family of God, the church, is the family of God.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess the question is, is there a relationship?
[SPEAKER_00]: You might be saying, yes, they can serve, but the questions are all ages able to serve together.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, or is that all separated out?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you didn't have the sheep in different categories.
[SPEAKER_02]: They were all 100 of them together.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's just value in running the race together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And families serving together.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, can I also say something about hospitality?
[SPEAKER_02]: Here, because it's easy to just only have practice hospitality with people who have kids that are your kids's ages.
[SPEAKER_02]: And here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that God taught me something big.
[SPEAKER_02]: by way of giving us nine kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because we have children that are five to 20, almost 26 years old, like we had kids that were basically the same age as anybody's kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I hang out with moms, grandma's, because I'm a grandma, I'm about to have my sixth grandchild.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hang out with the grandmas and their 50s and 60s and can relate to them because a lot of them have grandkids my
[SPEAKER_02]: and they have children that are my older kids ages.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then I'm still hanging out with the people who have kids that are four and five years old and babies because I have a five year old, but you just turned five.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's been awesome, but I've realized that there is, I remember there is this thing where you're like, oh, I only want to have people over there have kids my kids ages so that the kids get along.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's a lie.
[SPEAKER_02]: that it literally ruins the whole point of a family of God, like have the older retired couple over.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't even need to have kids, I betcha, that they will invest and talk to your kids, and then what if they became like, Sega gets spiritual grandparents?
[SPEAKER_02]: They have so many of those at church.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that what happens is as kids are raised in ways that they're segmented by age, the kids themselves don't have desire to hang out with different age kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: The kids themselves don't desire.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: And are used to maybe talking to older people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then it would be odd for your family culture to invite an older couple over or younger kids over or younger kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's why it's older kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: We model it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's the only thing that's going to change it is if we parents model it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there is some flaws in the cultural American culture of the way the rhythms, the way everything is set up.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's causing problems in real faith and real connection and being valued in the body of Christ.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's true, I think that that's why you know at first we were talking about parenting.
[SPEAKER_02]: We can't lead our kids where we are not right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so if we are also like unbeknownst to us,
[SPEAKER_02]: And I actually think every person listening should probably ask themselves what Psalm 51, 10 says, create me a clean heart of God and renew a right spirit within me.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the spirit that's within you right now?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you judgmental of other people because of their ages or their social economic status?
[SPEAKER_02]: Where you're not going to go and sit and eat with them or hang out with them or get to know them because you don't think you have everything in common.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everything in common.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, come on, we have Christ in common.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's all we need.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Christ in common.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you have Christ in common, imagine the relationships that can exist.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, it's interesting because I feel like this is something that you and I really started living out in acknowledging more about 15 years ago, 10, 15 years ago, and actually it's a little bit longer than that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's changed our family to where our kids have, I mean, a lot of homeschool kids are known for like, you know, being able to talk to people of all different ages, but it's not about talking to them.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's about knowing them and wanting to hang out with them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it when.
[SPEAKER_02]: an older gentleman in our church will call and ask one of our kids to come over and help him with a project and they're like Eager excited to go hang out with them because they're buddies and there's like what a Pry 50 year age gap doesn't matter they're buddies and and that this isn't the first time this many times our son had People that were 20 30 years older than him as grimsman in his wedding, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so this is, now it's five years ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just think that there's this element of like whatever you are inside if you are struggling with ages and then your kids are going to also because you're socializing your children and you need to realize that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that if we all value all ages in the body of Christ and we all work together to build the body of Christ, that's what God wants.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is what He wants.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope you enjoyed the episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can find all resources at E.C.