[UNKNOWN]: You know, anything about spider or muscles in it?
[UNKNOWN]: Nope.
[UNKNOWN]: That's because they don't have any.
[UNKNOWN]: They're on a hydraulic system.
[UNKNOWN]: Shooting fluid to move their legs as it were.
[UNKNOWN]: They're appendages or rather like straws.
[UNKNOWN]: Very well.
[UNKNOWN]: Party whistles.
[UNKNOWN]: Hello and welcome to comics versus an M.C.
[UNKNOWN]: Universe podcast.
[UNKNOWN]: We are the Lorehounds Your Guides to the Nicholas Cage Corner of the Spider-Verse.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm Alicia, the Lounge singer with a soft spot for a man of sand.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm John, the podcast host who, at this moment, is 70% chaos, 30% dark side energy.
[UNKNOWN]: And this is our breakdown of Spider-Man War, heavy focus on the noir.
[UNKNOWN]: The new live action Spider-Verse series on prom video.
[UNKNOWN]: So as always, this is going to be your blanket spoiler warning for all other Marvel films TV shows, books, or comics that have ever been released, we will consider ourselves free to reference any of this lower at will, but we will start with a quick spoiler free discussion of this show.
[UNKNOWN]: We'll give you some fresh takes and some production information before we get into the spoilers for this show.
[UNKNOWN]: But we're not going to pretend we haven't read and watched and consumed in life times worth of other Marvel media.
[UNKNOWN]: Speaking of which, yeah, this is a sort of spin-off from the Spiderverse movies, so you can find our previous coverage of the Across the Spiderverse film because we weren't podcasting when the first one came out yet.
[UNKNOWN]: But this is the first film is where we got Spider-Man noir, but this spider noir, who is also voiced by Nicholas Cage, but is from a different universe than that animated universe.
[UNKNOWN]: Do you hope that we'll see crossovers?
[UNKNOWN]: Absolutely.
[UNKNOWN]: I want to, you know, I'm a fan of everything that happens in the HEPCU.
[UNKNOWN]: So I want to see, you know, more characters drawn in and potentially, you know, expand his interactions with other spider peoples that would be cool.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Are you a fan in general of the Spider-Man noir comics and or like film noir as a genre?
[UNKNOWN]: Um, not really a fan of the comics.
[UNKNOWN]: I haven't read a lot of the Spider-Man noir stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I film noir.
[UNKNOWN]: I was first introduced to when I was maybe, I think.
[UNKNOWN]: 13 in high school had an English teacher who showed us the movie The Big Sleep and very random for the show.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: Not that you say I didn't think about that before, but yeah, so I wouldn't say that I'm, you know,
[UNKNOWN]: expert and more and all of the things that happen in those sorts of settings but I do have a definite affinity for some of those movies from that time just because of that experience that I had when I was in high school.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, no, I have not read the Spider-Man noir comics yet, but I really should, I really want to.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, you know, I was sort of, I had written, we've talked about this in other podcasts, but I'd kind of written Spider-Man off as a character because I'm not so into like the goody two-shoes type characters.
[UNKNOWN]: And then it was really the Spiderverse movies that opened my eyes to like, oh look at all these different Spider-Mens, so definitely the two that are most interested in, and it's just always, as always, a matter of carving out time, I am definitely interested in getting more into Spider-Man noir and, and of course,
[UNKNOWN]: Aspartigua and comics are really, they're really good, so I support anyone really in those comics and continue to read in those comics because she's awesome and the stories that they're telling recently over the last few years have been really cool, so yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and as for film noir, it is one of my preferred genres.
[UNKNOWN]: I would say, okay, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: I do especially like the 30s and the 40s are one of my favorite film eras in general.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, and I really like something that's hyper stylized.
[UNKNOWN]: I like complicated bots, but let's be honest.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm most of all in it for the femphatiles.
[UNKNOWN]: So, so, um, yeah, it's funny.
[UNKNOWN]: I had on my, I'm doing this like summer death race with the Oscar's death racing community right now.
[UNKNOWN]: And I had put on my list for one of the prompts, the lady from Shanghai, an Orson Wells film with Rita Hayworth, just because it was a film noir film that I wanted to watch, because I knew it influenced a bunch of other things, and all that, we'll get into it.
[UNKNOWN]: But it turns out that it heavily influenced the climax of this season of television.
[UNKNOWN]: So as I go, that was for two hertists timing.
[UNKNOWN]: That's really cool.
[UNKNOWN]: Even the death racers will.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll tell you.
[UNKNOWN]: We, the lifts never end, the lifts to check off.
[UNKNOWN]: And I have to respect, I have the ultimately smack for you guys because, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: There's always more movies to watch.
[UNKNOWN]: There's always more is, like, how to read more.
[UNKNOWN]: More.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, this TV show is glad to take a TV break for, for this, um, and a couple of other things that I've been talking about.
[UNKNOWN]: But, um, this is one of my favorite shows of the year.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll just set it up Ben Riley a season down on his luck, private investigator, and 1930s New York is forced to grapple with his past life.
[UNKNOWN]: following a deep personal tragedy as the city's one and only superhero.
[UNKNOWN]: When an exceptional case comes, his way Ben must become the spider, once more.
[UNKNOWN]: So keeping it spoiler free for now, what did you think of the season of Earl?
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, it was awesome.
[UNKNOWN]: This was truly an enjoyable watch, and I told you earlier, I haven't watched it in color.
[UNKNOWN]: I've only watched it in black and white on the first viewing end the second time that I did I watched, and I know the color is on the pop, just say the least, but there's something with the black and white that I just feels, it just feels, um,
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know, it just feels right, you know, as I'm watching them and just amazed that I still can find the joys and something.
[UNKNOWN]: that doesn't look contemporary, which is achievement, because I'm so used to nowadays having all the spectacular things pop up on screen, right at being color and wonderful vision and, you know, like let's say, meant the Mandalorian movie, you know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: Just the pops of brightness and
[UNKNOWN]: Doesn't have that in that way and I still find myself thoroughly, totally engrossed individuals.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, that's one thing I will say that this was really a great watch from the first episode to the last.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, as far as like the black and white versus color debate, I first thought I think it's so cool that they did both.
[UNKNOWN]: So they call one authentic black and white in the other true true hue, which is obviously an homage to technicolor, where they basically they dialed the saturation up to 11, and it emphasizes this sort of
[UNKNOWN]: hyperrealism, you know, surrealism, but still maintains that expressionist lighting, the dramatic lighting that they have and so many scenes.
[UNKNOWN]: So, I, you know, I did end up watching it in both.
[UNKNOWN]: I did my first watch in Black and White and my rewatch in color and I'm glad that I did because I think each does have its advantages.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, um,
[UNKNOWN]: It's interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: The intro is always in black and white.
[UNKNOWN]: It was always meant to be black and white at first, Nicholas Cage said that basically black and whites for adult colors for children.
[UNKNOWN]: Although I know I have the adult I know chose color and that's, you know, perfectly valid.
[UNKNOWN]: They do definitely, they deliver different vibes, but
[UNKNOWN]: You know, people say, okay, it was designed for black and white first and that's true, but it clearly was also designed for color and all mentioned a few things going through where that really stands out to me, but just in general, the color compositions were clearly plans for like in the first episode.
[UNKNOWN]: So this isn't really a spoiler.
[UNKNOWN]: There's a rooftop fight and you see
[UNKNOWN]: you see someone in a cream suit and there's also like canvas it's the same cream color but it also matches these, they've made the lights of the city skyline in the background the same creamy white and it's just all balanced perfectly so I really love what they did with the color too.
[UNKNOWN]: Did you know this was Nicholas Cage's first television show ever?
[UNKNOWN]: I did not.
[UNKNOWN]: It was quite surprising, you know?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: But for such a story, then, in Lyon career, that this was his first TV thing, was really something, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: What did you think of, I saw some complaints about it being an older Spider-Man?
[UNKNOWN]: Oh no, no, I love to that person, I love that I like saying super heroes age and the stories that can be told as they as they age, you know, and Spider-Man is one of those heroes that, you know, you can age and advance in time and see how he changes, right?
[UNKNOWN]: You know, you can't do the things at 60 or 50 or 40 that you were doing when you were 16, even if you were a super powered.
[UNKNOWN]: So, I think it gives interesting stories to tell if we tell those stories of the older heroes.
[UNKNOWN]: So, no, I was firmly, firmly, very happy that they aged them.
[UNKNOWN]: And that he was, you know, however old he is in the show.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, it's not like they ignored it.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, they constantly called attention to it and just like his, you know, as it would be in real life his him bristling, people calling him all.
[UNKNOWN]: He's like, hey, I still got it.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: The like couple who's house, he used to live it anyways.
[UNKNOWN]: Like he's still got it.
[UNKNOWN]: And you know, that's why anything with Spider-Man, particularly the even though you know,
[UNKNOWN]: But with that character, we've seen a younger version of Spiderman so often.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, I often say a lot of times, I say, I'm tired of, you know, Peter Parker or Spiderman people being teenagers, you know, because even in the comics, they age.
[UNKNOWN]: And so to constantly have that replay on the screen, for me is more troublesome than heaven and older.
[UNKNOWN]: you know, spy the person.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, I think Nicholas Cage was perfect for this because he is clearly such a deep fan of both comic books.
[UNKNOWN]: We've always known that about him and obviously film noir.
[UNKNOWN]: The quote that you used in the intro is a reference to he said that he said he's studied his character by watching the big sleep with the movie.
[UNKNOWN]: But he also said that he made his performance 70% Humphrey Bogart and 30% Bugs Bunny, which I'm like, yeah, no, it's like you got the dialogue, you got the antics, you got it.
[UNKNOWN]: Would it be in the case with if he didn't say that, if he didn't.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's another thing I loved about this show was that it was in the cage being his nicagious.
[UNKNOWN]: You don't know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: It was just a joy.
[UNKNOWN]: He's reached peak form.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It was such a joy to watch and just totally, you know, just...
[UNKNOWN]: B, you can go and be goofy and crazy and all the ticks and the, you know, I just enjoy when Nicolas Cage on screen, you know, just let's loose and just go with a character.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think that he played this very well, this is a little role that he really embodied.
[UNKNOWN]: And you can tell that he had a lot of, I thought he looked like he was having a lot of fun in the role.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and he was one of the executive producers too, so he was able to have a lot of influence on it, so he could, we'll talk about some of his ideas for the character when we get to this boiler section that ended up making it into the show, but I just think there's also a great understanding and use of the tropes of noir, you know, that.
[UNKNOWN]: the both honor the form but also make it feel very modern but we still get this complicated web of double crosses and I'm gonna argue possibly one of the best fem fatales of all time.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: I want to hear that, I'll give it.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's it's set.
[UNKNOWN]: It's I love when they choose a specific historical setting, even though it's clearly it's an alternate universe and things are different, but it still it's 1933 and they are like our universe.
[UNKNOWN]: They are in the middle of the Great Depression, which lasted from four years before that, for another six years after that.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's the last days of prohibition, which has been going on for 13 years.
[UNKNOWN]: But now we see like people are just openly drinking in bars left and right in the show.
[UNKNOWN]: It's basically over.
[UNKNOWN]: People are like, now we're done with that.
[UNKNOWN]: I guess, though, for me, there's a lot of technical aspects that I want to shout out that really made me like literally melt in my chair.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, not literally melt, but, you know, my muscles close enough, close enough.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, close enough.
[UNKNOWN]: One, you know, the music we had music by Chris Bowers, who is a prolific film score and Michael Dean Parsons, who got an Emmy nomination for Working on Bridgerton.
[UNKNOWN]: um loved all the music I've been listening to the soundtrack while working some of it's very jarring in the fight scenes but but I love especially the jazzy stuff like the opening theme song by Kirby which I this opening had never skipped status for me.
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't skip it once.
[UNKNOWN]: No, no, I mean, the entire field of the show was just chefs kiss, you know, from the music to just the environment when people are not even speaking or just standing around, the vibe was immaculate, you know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: So I just felt like,
[UNKNOWN]: They hit everything again as someone who's not deeply knowledgeable about noir, just on the surface level, I was like, oh, that's hungry.
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: And immediately, it made me recall those things.
[UNKNOWN]: And if you're doing that, and that's the intent of what you're doing, then you're doing it well.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we owe a lot of that to Executive Producer's Phil Lord and Christopher Miller, who are also responsible for the Spider-Verse stuff, so it makes sense.
[UNKNOWN]: They would bring them over as Executive Producer's here.
[UNKNOWN]: You've probably heard those names most recently as the Directors of Projectile Mary, so they're having a great year.
[UNKNOWN]: But then they tapped their friend, Orin Uziu.
[UNKNOWN]: to be the develop this idea of Spider-Noir into what we see here.
[UNKNOWN]: And so, Usiel's best known for work on Mortal Kombat, Rebirth, 22, Jump Streets, the Cloverfield Paradox, and the Lost City.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm going to be honest, I don't love any of those things, but I don't love really.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I like Cloverfield.
[UNKNOWN]: I like Cloverfield, but I like the first two movies.
[UNKNOWN]: I was just talking about this with David because Paradox is his favorite and- Oh, he said, he said Paradox is his favorite.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and Paradox is my least favorite of the three float fields.
[UNKNOWN]: Interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, but the other who's you'll run did the show with the other showrunner was Steve Lightfoot from like Hannibal and the original Punisher from Netflix.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'm like, yeah, yeah, I can see how these two vibes balance each other out.
[UNKNOWN]: I think Hannibal especially is kind of an over the top show that jibes well with this, you know, in terms of balancing these tones to create something unique.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It is interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: This is an Amazon and Sony co-production, so that's why it's on prime and not Disney.
[UNKNOWN]: I wonder how Disney feels about that?
[UNKNOWN]: Especially since it's really good.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's really good.
[UNKNOWN]: There was rumors of a big budget, but the budget number going around is just ridiculous and not real, like no everyone agrees, it's not real.
[UNKNOWN]: Precisely.
[UNKNOWN]: The rings of power is what you're saying.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it probably, like, I heard one number going around that it cost 150 million for the show, which is expensive, it's expensive, but it's like that's within the realm of possibility, you know, it's not insane certainly the acolyte famously was 180.
[UNKNOWN]: So, you know,
[UNKNOWN]: bring back the acolyte.
[UNKNOWN]: Bring back the acolyte.
[UNKNOWN]: Because now you was only one day.
[UNKNOWN]: It was only one day.
[UNKNOWN]: It was only one day
[UNKNOWN]: I think sometimes people don't know what it is that they have, and they may not believe in the final product.
[UNKNOWN]: And Sony does not have a great track record with the Spider-Man.
[UNKNOWN]: But the more things that's Lord and Mill are doing.
[UNKNOWN]: I know, I know, but still, there's this feeling I'm sure that people had with like, oh, you both, they're not really good at this stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, we'll try it out and see what happens.
[UNKNOWN]: Also, some of my people are so blown away by this.
[UNKNOWN]: They're like, oh, wait, you can't make it.
[UNKNOWN]: It's really good, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, we're like, Lena made it.
[UNKNOWN]: And so it's, I think the lack of confidence in Sony.
[UNKNOWN]: how being a part of it and play the role, that's just my opinion.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, maybe maybe, I mean, I wonder if the success of Project Hill Mary, you know, we'll change that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, helped that at all already.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, no, no word about a season two.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm hoping for one, but we don't need it.
[UNKNOWN]: And that I do appreciate that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we got eight episodes about 40.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, eight episodes about 40 to 50 minutes each and it told a very complete story
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I do wonder the fact that it was filmed in L.A. that could contribute to the cost to, if I'm being perfectly honest, like I want jobs to still be in L.A.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, we need to work on how things are priced and who ends up benefiting from all that money spent.
[UNKNOWN]: But that's a whole other thing.
[UNKNOWN]: That's the conversation, Dad.
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I'm most obsessed with in this show, though, is this cinematography, not to like, bully David here?
[UNKNOWN]: It's just beautiful.
[UNKNOWN]: But since I can't get him to watch a show.
[UNKNOWN]: Why will he watch it?
[UNKNOWN]: I'm completely doubtful.
[UNKNOWN]: I think he's not in the mood for it.
[UNKNOWN]: OK.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, so the cinematographer was Darren Tiernan, who did, oh, it's too.
[UNKNOWN]: Darren Tiernan, who did the Penguin, Westworld, Barry, et cetera.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, I see all that.
[UNKNOWN]: and Peter Deming, who did Mulholl and Drive, the cabin in the woods, a lot of horror films.
[UNKNOWN]: Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, all that there.
[UNKNOWN]: I just, I especially love the use of mirrors.
[UNKNOWN]: We'll talk about that a bit more, of course, but they did, they had me deep diving into the split de-opter lens, or is it die-opter, de-opter?
[UNKNOWN]: I'm gonna say de-opter.
[UNKNOWN]: Have you heard of this before?
[UNKNOWN]: I have not.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's this technique.
[UNKNOWN]: It's an old technique that was popularized, I think, by Film noir, where it allows you to focus on two different depths of field at the same time.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's used so, like, like, for instance, there's this shot in the show where cat and Ben are talking.
[UNKNOWN]: And you see, like, the one face reflected in the mirror in the background as they're talking to each other.
[UNKNOWN]: So you can see both faces and screen at the same time.
[UNKNOWN]: both in focus and they do this in film noir especially because it's intentionally it's a bit unsettling because it's that's not how it's supposed to you're not supposed to be able to see two different you know when we look at something other things are supposed to fade away when we focus one thing
[UNKNOWN]: So it creates this clarity but in an unsettling way, but then they just compound that with I love this like elegantly topsy turvy way they were moving the camera and yeah creating a bunch of angles but just the way the camera was gliding between things and just constantly keeping you slightly on edge.
[UNKNOWN]: And not to mention just the way that they framed so many shots.
[UNKNOWN]: Like there's this sequence I shared on discord, just about the way the light is like playing through these fans and highlighting Nicolas Cage.
[UNKNOWN]: It's even better in black and white to be honest.
[UNKNOWN]: That one, then color.
[UNKNOWN]: A lot of these shots are especially striking in black and white.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, black and white.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I was seen in color.
[UNKNOWN]: So I couldn't only agree with what I spoke for.
[UNKNOWN]: But I even a color like I love this shot.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's in the first, yeah, I must be in the first episode where Ben meets with this this other P.I.
[UNKNOWN]: Donningle and they're sitting at the bar and the camera is like almost at the bar level.
[UNKNOWN]: So you see the entire bar going into the distance and getting smaller and smaller with the two men sitting at the end of it.
[UNKNOWN]: So the men look almost like tiny and trapped in the shot.
[UNKNOWN]: with this elegant bar around them while they like whisper their plans together like oh chef's kiss all the chef's kisses
[UNKNOWN]: So, yeah, I mean, in general, most people agree with us.
[UNKNOWN]: We've gotten tomatoes.
[UNKNOWN]: We've got like 91% from both critics and audiences.
[UNKNOWN]: We've got meta critics, 72% or 7.3 and IMDB has a healthy 7.9.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, would you, would you think about the Pukula scale?
[UNKNOWN]: How violence, emotionally, and or physically is this?
[UNKNOWN]: Um... 1.5.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think it's very, I mean, people die, but it's not like, it's not like gory, and I think there's a lot of kindness in the characters.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, like there are some bad characters, but there's a lot of good characters.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, I'll I'll I'll I'll I'm with you on that.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm with you on that.
[UNKNOWN]: And I just okay.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll stop talking out the technical aspects, but just one more thing.
[UNKNOWN]: I love the editing in this too.
[UNKNOWN]: The way they have these they'll have like these pacy montages that feel very
[UNKNOWN]: you know of of the era but they'll have these super slow transitions like they're a photo developing in between shots and then I have that cut with these like crisp clean cuts between all these eye popping frames shots that I'm talking about.
[UNKNOWN]: I love the characters in the camaraderie, like even the big bad played by Brendan Gleason was the lightful top banter throughout.
[UNKNOWN]: I love the humor, like one example.
[UNKNOWN]: This is not really spoiler.
[UNKNOWN]: When he's waiting for the pay phone to get an important call and this woman comes up.
[UNKNOWN]: And she's like, uh, I need to use a, he's like, oh, no, it's broken.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm blah, blah, blah, blah.
[UNKNOWN]: And then the phone rings and he answers it and puts it back and takes a bite of his sandwich.
[UNKNOWN]: She looks at him like, what was that?
[UNKNOWN]: And he's like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait
[UNKNOWN]: just with the comic timing is so perfect for all this.
[UNKNOWN]: I think I'm going to rewatch the show a lot of times personally.
[UNKNOWN]: I think so.
[UNKNOWN]: I think I will as well.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's another thing I want to remarked like the supporting characters to where so very well fleshed out.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, I didn't feel there was a character, like I never asked, oh, what is this person in this?
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: Like, they don't need to be here.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't feel like they had extra, you know.
[UNKNOWN]: fluff to the story or to the setting or to the people involved, like everybody fit, and the actors who played them, played them so very well.
[UNKNOWN]: So that was another thing.
[UNKNOWN]: The cast was just extraordinary to me.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, you agree.
[UNKNOWN]: And I liked how unique it was.
[UNKNOWN]: Like we'll talk more about the individual characters.
[UNKNOWN]: But it's not, it's not what you would expect from, you know, it's not a direct adaptation of the Spider-Man noir comics.
[UNKNOWN]: They've taken a lot of liberties, change a lot of things, but you can in the multiverse or I'm not, you know?
[UNKNOWN]: And I think that they made it specifically their own thing.
[UNKNOWN]: is what would you say to anyone who's considering whether or not to watch this to whom would you recommend this?
[UNKNOWN]: First and foremost, anybody who enjoys superhero fanfare, DC, Marvel, whatever, this is something that you'll enjoy.
[UNKNOWN]: I think people who like good banter, who like, you know, Chris pacing and just enjoy watching actors act, and enjoy watching actors act on screen that have these incredible sets.
[UNKNOWN]: This is for you.
[UNKNOWN]: So basically anybody who watches movie or TV's,
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, I think one of the things I really like is just seeing the characters together.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: You like movies, you like TV shows, then you should watch this.
[UNKNOWN]: You should watch it.
[UNKNOWN]: Give it a try.
[UNKNOWN]: All right.
[UNKNOWN]: We'll put a pin in that there.
[UNKNOWN]: Take a quick break.
[UNKNOWN]: And when we come back, it's full spoilers on the table.
[UNKNOWN]: So you are warned.
[UNKNOWN]: Be right back.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, so let's talk through, we're going to talk through the entire season in one shot.
[UNKNOWN]: And we're going to be talking more character by character rather than episode by episode.
[UNKNOWN]: Starting with, what did you think the intro always in black and white?
[UNKNOWN]: Four shadows the finale with all the broken mirrors.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And with the song, saving grace.
[UNKNOWN]: Why do you, why is that a never skip?
[UNKNOWN]: It's just the feel like when I first, from the first episode, it just jolted me up.
[UNKNOWN]: That was like, oh, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Like I was shaking my head, okay, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's see what's going on in that, and I thought the music was great.
[UNKNOWN]: It's just like a setting.
[UNKNOWN]: It feels,
[UNKNOWN]: you know, I was anticipating things and just watching how the pictures moved on screen was just like, yeah, I want to see that every time actually.
[UNKNOWN]: Just to get me into getting me ready for the next episode, you know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: So to me, that's why it wasn't so much about the technical things that they were doing, but it was really about how it made me feel.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, what we're used to prized to find out that this Spider-Man was going by the name of Ben Riley.
[UNKNOWN]: I was, I was really, if folks who don't know Ben Riley and Marvel Comics is a clone of Peter Parker has a very
[UNKNOWN]: But, yeah, Ben Riley has a very colorful history and mobile comics, so I was surprised that they used him, particularly as this Spider-Man.
[UNKNOWN]: I only know him from, I don't, was it into or across the spiderverse where he shows up voiced by Andy Samberg, but nothing at all like this character, you know, he's like, has like a sleeveless sweatshirt on or something, you know, what he or something like, totally different vibes.
[UNKNOWN]: And of course Nick Cage did appear in the first of those movies as a different Spider-Man, no art.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, I guess, so there's a lot of theorizing, like why did they change the name Alyssa brought up a good point on our discord about these SPE guides that were had all these rules about Peter Parker, like that he can't drink or kill anyone or, you know, do immoral things.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, we belong to, according to these, but apparently they've fallen, a lot of these have fallen by the wayside, but I still bet,
[UNKNOWN]: it has something to do with that, something to do with separating it from Marvel more.
[UNKNOWN]: What do you think?
[UNKNOWN]: Hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't, I think, you know, I don't know if I agree with either one of those things, because I just feel like with the success of the Spider-Verse, people are more inclined to accept multiple versions as a Peter Parker.
[UNKNOWN]: But I don't know that Marvel is inclined to allow them to use the name on a different platform.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's, yeah, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: I Disney is being more protective about, you know, quote unquote traditional values these days too.
[UNKNOWN]: that is a good point.
[UNKNOWN]: It would be silly of Marvel to do that.
[UNKNOWN]: In my opinion, at this point, with those movies already having established this multiverse and having had the why the successful
[UNKNOWN]: acclaimed that they received for those productions, for those stories, for them to be like, oh, no, you can't do that now, it would be the same thing that Sony did to them in the early oats.
[UNKNOWN]: So I just, yeah, it would, it would sit poorly with me if that's the reason.
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe that's why I don't want to believe that.
[UNKNOWN]: Hmm, yeah, no, that's fair.
[UNKNOWN]: I did also notice that in the big sleep, I just, I watched that recently too, so this got me on a home to work again.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, and the character, the main character played by Humphrey Bogart, his name is Phillip Marlow, but he also refers to himself sometimes as doghouse Riley.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm never completely sure why I feel like that must be a period specific reference that I don't know what it's relating to, but it is interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: that didn't really share.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a statement, yeah, interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, it was very interesting origin story here.
[UNKNOWN]: We got that he was bitten by a feral mutated human spider while liberating soldiers from a German experimentation prisoner of war camp.
[UNKNOWN]: So this was during World War One.
[UNKNOWN]: So about 15 or so years before this, what did you think of the D.A.J.
[UNKNOWN]: of Nicholas Cage in those
[UNKNOWN]: The work for me.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: That was well done.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, totally works for me.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think it worked better in black and white than in color for me, but so.
[UNKNOWN]: All right.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, I think that he's he's probably an easier one to do because they have so many images of him was in his 30s or whatever he throws to throw flashbacks.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, right.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, I thought that
[UNKNOWN]: But apparently it's quite common now that even like if they're not specifically de-aging characters, a lot of characters, a lot of actors are still, like Tom Cruise still wanted some touch-up stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: I do love one of the influences that the quote that I played at this start of the episode is one of the influences that Nicholas Cage had on this where he's like,
[UNKNOWN]: He's like, this character is basically a spider trying to cosplay as a human.
[UNKNOWN]: So he, yeah, he takes on these spider mannerisms, but also like he watches movies to learn to mimic human mannerisms.
[UNKNOWN]: So we see him watching a great guy from 1936, a James Cagney and make Clark movie and like, making with his hot dog.
[UNKNOWN]: He's got all these fucking hot dogs all the time.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't despair as the hot dog.
[UNKNOWN]: Don't despair as the hot dog.
[UNKNOWN]: What did he say something about like it's better to have a hot dog?
[UNKNOWN]: It's better to have a hot dog at the park or something then.
[UNKNOWN]: I've got to get there.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, no, I mean, I just love the fact that Nicholas Cage could have his, this is a world where his wacky and I say wacky in with all love like this is one of the reasons why this is one of my favorite actors, but you know, he could have these specific ideas and they actually really work and make this unique and so they're able to incorporate it into the show in ways that just yeah like yeah that totally makes sense within this world.
[UNKNOWN]: in the quote, yeah, did you know anything?
[UNKNOWN]: It's better to have a hot dog at the wall park and then a steak at the rits.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, he's not wrong.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, it's just like, let's just chill and have fun.
[UNKNOWN]: I love like with the way he's mimicking this hydraulic system throughout and at one point they save him and Lonnie says, should we get him a doctor or priest?
[UNKNOWN]: So Ruby, Jay Williams, is his fiancé who passed away.
[UNKNOWN]: She was murdered five years before this, and this is why he stopped being the spider.
[UNKNOWN]: So this is obviously his canon death.
[UNKNOWN]: She's the one who told him with great power.
[UNKNOWN]: It comes great responsibility, which he later inverts, because he wants to escape the weight of the city on his shoulders.
[UNKNOWN]: But did you also think she was a redhead because her name's Ruby?
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't think she was a redhead, but what I did think in the moment was very Gwen Stacey vibes.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: From where Gwen Stacey was, was killed.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: That's right.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, Spider-Man, diving, trying to save her and can't, that's, that's the vibe that I, I got, it's like, oh shit, this is Gwen Stacey.
[UNKNOWN]: True, true, true.
[UNKNOWN]: Know that makes sense, that makes sense.
[UNKNOWN]: They just tricked me with the name Ruby and then I was surprised, because it was like, oh, she's like a Mary Jane, but no, you're right to you.
[UNKNOWN]: And instead of, you know, peanut Parker and stays heroic, then Riley chooses to become a non hero, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: So you get to see the differences between the two spider persons, spider beings.
[UNKNOWN]: because like if he's feeling guilty that he wasn't there when she drowned because he was busy drinking.
[UNKNOWN]: On the one hand, you would think that like you be like, oh, I better stop drinking and be there for people more, but in reality, that's often not how it works to be honest.
[UNKNOWN]: I loved, yeah, that he starts out as a typical P.I.
[UNKNOWN]: always broke without very bonded to his money problems in the beginning, like, don't even have the phone on.
[UNKNOWN]: Tell me about it, but it was nice.
[UNKNOWN]: I was really happy for him that he made his other private investigator friend in episode one, Patrick Donnigol, of course, the guy gets immediate, the first kills the guy he's chasing,
[UNKNOWN]: Like, Ben tried to warn you dude.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Why do you think, Winston, the thug, offered that guy 50 and Riley 30.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, clear, come on.
[UNKNOWN]: Riley clearly is the better detective.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, I don't even know the guy, but come on.
[UNKNOWN]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
[UNKNOWN]: outside of when he's talking to Ben, we don't really see him.
[UNKNOWN]: So we don't know what he portrayed himself, how he portrayed himself prior to that, right?
[UNKNOWN]: We only see him afterwards.
[UNKNOWN]: So maybe, you know, he's out and about and he's really looking to part, whereas, you know, Ben is
[UNKNOWN]: He's struggling, man.
[UNKNOWN]: He's struggling.
[UNKNOWN]: He's like, you can immediately walk into the office and see the struggle, you know what I'm saying?
[UNKNOWN]: So you're gonna say, hey, you can do this job for me, but you're gonna offer less money because you think he's gonna take whatever, you know?
[UNKNOWN]: It may be that I know it wasn't in that position.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what I think.
[UNKNOWN]: maybe he looked more put together.
[UNKNOWN]: He certainly had a wife who required money.
[UNKNOWN]: It seems.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, and yes, yes.
[UNKNOWN]: We'll talk about her a bit more, of course.
[UNKNOWN]: But by the way, the when Ben goes back to, he decides to go back into spider mode, so he goes back to his old apartment and buss his old costume out of the wall.
[UNKNOWN]: And he does a few other capers like this, where he's
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Those moments 100% of reference to Humphrey Bogart in the big sleep.
[UNKNOWN]: Even like flips up his hat rhythm the same way at one point.
[UNKNOWN]: I liked, I mean, it was clear that there was a lot of very direct omages throughout, I really appreciated it.
[UNKNOWN]: How did you feel about the way that Spidey's power is manifest in this version?
[UNKNOWN]: I thought it was cool that they were so different from how we know Peter Parker's power work.
[UNKNOWN]: And it was like, the Spidey sense was in the Tango.
[UNKNOWN]: It was more of a serious pounding, you know.
[UNKNOWN]: his webs not being readily accessible, I think they did, you know, and I wasn't sure if it was because he hadn't used his powers in such a long time, or if it was because that's just how it was.
[UNKNOWN]: And so that's the one thing I remember.
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe it's an aging thing, too.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't even think about that.
[UNKNOWN]: And so that was super interesting to me as well.
[UNKNOWN]: the way he moved while swinging and fighting was great.
[UNKNOWN]: But I think the one thing that really stuck out, the two things that stuck out was the way that the webbing did it.
[UNKNOWN]: couldn't shoot out on call in the way that his Spider-Sense worked differently from people.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: His Spider-Sense almost seems like a migraine, which is like how real is that?
[UNKNOWN]: A migraine of intuition.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: His webbing looked kind of like grimy in this, but much more like steely, like almost metallic some ways.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but he's still like he's hard drinking definitely kills people and all its stuff.
[UNKNOWN]: But he still has like that spider goodness within, you know, he keeps saying, I didn't do the spider thing for the thrill.
[UNKNOWN]: It was never hero and everyone like nobody believes it for a second.
[UNKNOWN]: They're like, sure dude, whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I have another drink.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I did notice that the stunt double was slightly smaller, like shorter than Nicolas Cage.
[UNKNOWN]: And I noticed it more when I just re-watched it in color than in black and white.
[UNKNOWN]: But that's just me being very nitpicky.
[UNKNOWN]: I, there were certain scenes that I thought that
[UNKNOWN]: It does the double look smaller, not necessarily in height, but just smaller overall, like slimmer, then when the cage is on the screen, walking around has been, you know, so I didn't notice that they picked that up.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but did the actions well on everything so?
[UNKNOWN]: No, the action was great.
[UNKNOWN]: And I mean, but for me, I guess it's always going to come down to, especially the psyche of these characters, and this is, yeah, this is a guy who loves the people around him, but loads himself for not being able to like be better to them and like the way he calls.
[UNKNOWN]: before he tells Cat who he is and he's talking about the other and he's like, you know, there's other freaks, you know, like the spider, like, you know, aren't they freaks?
[UNKNOWN]: He's talking about himself.
[UNKNOWN]: He's still, yeah, yeah, yeah, like this is, you know, and I think it's because of the way that he gains his powers.
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean, like, walking into that, that,
[UNKNOWN]: that laboratory full of people that were experimented on and changed and having like a half spider-half human bite you.
[UNKNOWN]: What else could you think?
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I'm saying?
[UNKNOWN]: Like it's
[UNKNOWN]: It makes sense for me for him to think of those other super-powered people and himself as freaks, especially given like the time that he's living in.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, but he remains relatable because he loves food.
[UNKNOWN]: Got in order.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean pick who was your favorite favorite my favorite probably Janet Yeah, I didn't know Karen Rodriguez the actress from anything else, but yeah as Janet Rorya's Rorya's Rorya's Rorya's she was fantastic just yeah absolutely nailed it's like perfect comedic timing
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I thought she was very believable in the role of underpaid staff, you know, someone who's working hard and not getting anything for it, you know, but still what else is out there?
[UNKNOWN]: You know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: And I think she portrayed that very well and she portrayed like this incompetence
[UNKNOWN]: you know, and what she does and how she does it.
[UNKNOWN]: And just, you know, like, I know you're full of shit.
[UNKNOWN]: But, you know, we're still here.
[UNKNOWN]: We were still gonna, you know, try to get through this, but don't, don't try to pull any wool over my eyes because I know you're full of shit, you know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: So I really enjoyed her and Nicholas's caged.
[UNKNOWN]: Her and Ben Riley, their interactions and how they,
[UNKNOWN]: bounced and played off each other.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, you could really feel, I mean, we'll talk about another character too that you could just feel the friendship, but there you could really feel like at one point toward the beginning, Ben's like, what I know she knows to cat.
[UNKNOWN]: it turns out that's even more true than he thinks when one of the things that made me cackle out loud the most was the montage later on in the season where it turns out that he's told her over and over he's the spider.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[UNKNOWN]: So, the showrunner or the creator, Uziul, he said that Janet is, he thinks of her like Effie, bring from the multi-spelkin, the 1941 film.
[UNKNOWN]: A character that can be helpful that the private investigator can lean on, that can be hard on him as you were saying, but loves him.
[UNKNOWN]: And yeah, that's definitely okay if they're okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I'm glad that she, uh, by the, at the end of the season, she gets to be an investigator of her own rights and I hope she's finally getting regular payments now.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, and I hope she made some, a lot of references to her husband who we never saw on that's fine.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I'm okay with that.
[UNKNOWN]: But I want to see their dynamic in season two.
[UNKNOWN]: I hope he could be a really delightful specific character like who winds up with him.
[UNKNOWN]: I hope he knows how lucky he is.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, yeah, the other bestie, I was really glad to see Lamorn Morris back as Phil Robby Robertson.
[UNKNOWN]: I, you know, of course, know him.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm sure first from New Girl, but he's been in tons of other stuff since and he's just always really.
[UNKNOWN]: Never seen that.
[UNKNOWN]: You've never seen New Girl?
[UNKNOWN]: Never.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, man.
[UNKNOWN]: I love that show.
[UNKNOWN]: Then watch it.
[UNKNOWN]: I, um, I just, I just was looking it up while I was putting together this outline.
[UNKNOWN]: And I couldn't believe, I didn't even remember.
[UNKNOWN]: It was on for seven seasons.
[UNKNOWN]: And this is back in the day where six of those seven seasons have more than 20 episodes.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, wow.
[UNKNOWN]: Interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: TV used to be a lot.
[UNKNOWN]: against a lot of kids jump on.
[UNKNOWN]: I wanted to, he has a rewatch podcast about the show and I've been wanting to listen to it.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, he's a freelance journalist who's ambitious, also dealing with, you know, 1930s racism.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: He's kind of like combining us.
[UNKNOWN]: So dealing with the struggles of being a freelance journalist, I feel that, how did you feel about how they handled the aspects of 1930s racism in this?
[UNKNOWN]: Was it too light?
[UNKNOWN]: Was it just right?
[UNKNOWN]: Was it?
[UNKNOWN]: And most fiction, I always say it's too like, and most of the things that we watch and talk about it's always too like, so I don't even critique that anymore, but I thought that the one scene that was particularly powerful was when he
[UNKNOWN]: sat at the desk in the newsroom and he's, you know, so happy.
[UNKNOWN]: And he's just beaming and the camera paths to the rest of the room where everyone is either scowling or looking at and disbelief and wondering what the hell is, you know, he's doing there.
[UNKNOWN]: And he's totally oblivious to it.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, yeah, I'm where I'm supposed to be.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, those extremely powerful moments for me and I thought that was the best part of the way that they handled racism in this story was that moment.
[UNKNOWN]: The first appearance of this black man.
[UNKNOWN]: and the face of the opposition and facing the opposition and letting them know that, yeah, I'm where I'm supposed to be.
[UNKNOWN]: But you still see the hardship that's going to follow him.
[UNKNOWN]: That's going to be a part of his life.
[UNKNOWN]: And that was, I think that was the best moment that they portrayed on on screen and regards to how Robbie's life is, apart from being best friends with the spider.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, the Howard Walters is the daily bugle editor in this version of the story and he was a dick, he sucked, so it was funny to see his, like, just his, his small, you know, smacks back at him, like, though, just the whole, they had the thing where Walters takes his story and, like, changes everything but uses his photos, but the photos are good.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, um, and then, you know, after this, like, Robbie's obviously mad about it, but he's not the way he handles it.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, he's like, oh, okay, door open or close.
[UNKNOWN]: He's like, close.
[UNKNOWN]: He's like, okay, leaves the door open and walks away.
[UNKNOWN]: Just like these little fuck use, like, I see what you're doing.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, all right.
[UNKNOWN]: But I, you know, I feel like I understand he's he's ambitious because he's driven by real financial need, but also wanting to, you know, make something of himself to prove it just the way we all do way we all want our own career, but also the same as he's eating ketchup sandwiches he's one of us or in soup, but he's eating ketchup sandwiches.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's the thing, right, that just wanted to prove to yourself, but prove to the world, right, to prove to that newsroom that's looking at him with this thing and just believe that I'm better than you.
[UNKNOWN]: And what we all do.
[UNKNOWN]: I know it.
[UNKNOWN]: And all I need is opportunity to show it.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's what you get from Robbie.
[UNKNOWN]: Like he's out to show the world that's openly hostile to him, that he's better and I'm going to do whatever it takes to show that I'm better, whether I live or die trying and
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, um, Uziel, the creator said that Robby is optimistic and thinks he's lucky and it's all going to work out, uh, which contrast of course with with the cynic Ben, but I, you know, I like these moments where.
[UNKNOWN]: Like at one point, he walks up to this hotel and there's his whites only sign out front.
[UNKNOWN]: So he goes around back and he finds a black bell hop and starts talking getting the tea from him, which honestly, he's probably more than he would be able to get from the front desk.
[UNKNOWN]: So he's taking, you know, this wall thrown up in his face and being like, actually, I can go through this side door and get him better.
[UNKNOWN]: Like you can't.
[UNKNOWN]: keep me from the from the truth.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm going to show you I'm better.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, and I'm, you know, my work my articles.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: And we we're here just as much as anyone else is here and I, and I'm going to use that.
[UNKNOWN]: the people that you discard, the people that you don't think are worthy and you know what?
[UNKNOWN]: Look at this.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm getting the information that I need.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's how folks did it, you know?
[UNKNOWN]: Folks had to circumnavigate the rules.
[UNKNOWN]: you know, that were intentionally set up to be harmful to you and use, you know, every avenue, every point of access that was denied, there was some place else that you could gain entry.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's what he did.
[UNKNOWN]: And I don't think, you know, when Puzil says that Robby's optimistic and thinks he's lucky and all of that stuff, that it's all going to work out.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't necessarily, I didn't find it.
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't find that if he was like some happy go lucky, you know, guy, you know, walking through the world, like,
[UNKNOWN]: get everything is going to be all right.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I didn't find that.
[UNKNOWN]: I thought that he was working his ass off to make everything all right.
[UNKNOWN]: It wasn't just luck.
[UNKNOWN]: He wasn't just, you know, hoping he was actively, you know, working towards the hope.
[UNKNOWN]: And there's a difference in that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, no, that's fair.
[UNKNOWN]: That's fair.
[UNKNOWN]: I was glad that at the end, you know, he was working to get this job back.
[UNKNOWN]: And then as you said, that confrontation where he's sitting there and he's like, what am I doing?
[UNKNOWN]: And so then we find out the end, he's he's left and he's taken the risk, but he's gone to start his own operation, the Harlem Harold.
[UNKNOWN]: You were saying just before we recorded that you found out that he was based on a real person.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so, you know, the more he posted on a post on threads that he posted that he actually based his character on a real person, theodore Postan, Ted Postan, who was the first black journalist at the New York Post.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, okay, when was that?
[UNKNOWN]: When was, when was he a plane?
[UNKNOWN]: I can't, I don't remember.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll look it up and I find when he was, when he opened when he started at the post.
[UNKNOWN]: But I mean, I think it was around this time, right?
[UNKNOWN]: No, it was in the 30s, definitely.
[UNKNOWN]: And he, you know, is wildly acclaimed, you know.
[UNKNOWN]: multiple award winner Ted Postan and the Dean of Black Journalism.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, it's amazing that
[UNKNOWN]: He plucked that, and was able to find that, to relay this character, Robby Robertson, which I believe he had a great job.
[UNKNOWN]: Hope's ground the character, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and I do, I love his relationship with Ben, and how he's, he's the only person at the beginning who thinks
[UNKNOWN]: who Ben thinks knows he's a spider, of course, you know, Jan, a test to who but um 1936.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, okay, so yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: 1936, but he I've been working at the journalist before that, but he it's not like that was his first job, but you know, he yeah 1936.
[UNKNOWN]: He'd work for, you know, black papers before.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: But the post, you know, the all white post hired him as
[UNKNOWN]: on a temporary basis I think.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: But still.
[UNKNOWN]: That's a breakthrough.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I appreciate that the character Robby also did he just, you know, he, would they have this, not really even a confrontation later, but he says to Ben, he's like, you know, when you stop being the spider that messed up my career too, because that was like really helping that I could cover.
[UNKNOWN]: And, but he's still, you just genuinely once what is the best for his friend and in return Ben also wants the what is best for Robby.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And I have to say, you know, little more Morris, like a lot of the people in this are doing a bit of a 30s, you know, sort of accent thing.
[UNKNOWN]: Little more Morris for the most part seems to be playing himself at seams or like people keep.
[UNKNOWN]: people were confused as another character named Winston, and they're like, I keep confusing them and so glad when the other Winston died.
[UNKNOWN]: But I have to give him so much credit for his imitation of Nicholas Cage at the end of the season.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah, I was good.
[UNKNOWN]: Spider.
[UNKNOWN]: Get out.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you did.
[UNKNOWN]: You did.
[UNKNOWN]: That sounds good.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I was also excited to see Carrie Christopher back as the kid Frankie, Carrie Christopher is the kid from weapons, uh, and he was also in this terrible movie this year called Outcome, but it wasn't terrible because of him actually he played it's somewhat similar character and outcome just like a sassy kid, but this is a very different character from his weapons character.
[UNKNOWN]: Hmm, would you think of Frankie?
[UNKNOWN]: Thank you.
[UNKNOWN]: Hi, Frankie.
[UNKNOWN]: Frankie was cool.
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't think, um, you know, it's interesting that you have all of these characters and we don't often see children in these type of stories.
[UNKNOWN]: And then when we do see them, they play like important roles.
[UNKNOWN]: Like he's Ben's eyes on the streets, you know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: So it's not as if he doesn't have an important role in Ben's life because he actually does.
[UNKNOWN]: And that was nicely portrayed, I thought.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, yeah, he's, he's, you know, on screen a definitive amount of time.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm sure we're also having to do a child labor laws, but really well used where we see, we get a full idea of his personality that he's, you know, he's become this scrappy street kid and I have to say I have an abiding affection for the musical from the early 90s called the newsies, which
[UNKNOWN]: say.
[UNKNOWN]: But it's like he really is helpful.
[UNKNOWN]: He's he's casing the place when he's in Ben's office, but also Ben knows that he will this kid will come through for him.
[UNKNOWN]: Like he's a pickpocket, but he will give way if he picks Ben's pocket, he'll give it back.
[UNKNOWN]: And he's he's
[UNKNOWN]: like a clever kid he's running his scams with like he's got that quarter on a string scams so people fame pay him for the payphone and then he puts his quarter in that he can pull back out so that he doesn't lose the money um and that's what as we're talking about him I never once thought about where is his parents he's an orphan he studies an orphan no yeah I know when he said he was an orphan but it was just like
[UNKNOWN]: where are the adults, where are the parents, where's the orphanage, where's anyone who's taking care of this kid?
[UNKNOWN]: And the thing is, in real life, and in these settings, so often, those children, their stories are never heard, right?
[UNKNOWN]: So you have the street kid, orphan,
[UNKNOWN]: into Ben Rides life or maybe did Ben integrate himself into this kid's life?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, maybe.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, what I think about, you know, what I imagine the rest of his life to be is very much shaped, as I said by newsies, which is said, I think about 30 years before this.
[UNKNOWN]: Also New York City, but it shows like, I, if I recall correctly, the opening scene pretty much is the boys waking up at the orphanage and then being shoved out to like, okay, go, now go get your newspapers and sell them to earn your money for the day, you know, earn your
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, I think on the one hand you could think this kid would just be like, oh, here's two people Ben and Janet who are, you know, who I can milk for money or food or whatever, but he's also
[UNKNOWN]: very reliable, like any time Ben used them to help.
[UNKNOWN]: He does it.
[UNKNOWN]: He doesn't even just a glance on the street.
[UNKNOWN]: We'll get him to intervene and distract someone who's following it Ben, even though that puts him at risk.
[UNKNOWN]: So I was glad to see that by the end, Jan, it was giving him schooling.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's the thing, too, with Ben, is him insisting that he's not a hero.
[UNKNOWN]: But these little small acts that you can see that he's lying to himself.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, absolutely.
[UNKNOWN]: These little small interactions, you can tell that he's lying to himself.
[UNKNOWN]: That he very much wants to believe that he's not in here.
[UNKNOWN]: Because, you know, rule of rule.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yep.
[UNKNOWN]: Alright, well, this is a good place for another quick pause and when we come back, let's talk about the Finn Fatal and the Goot and Squad.
[UNKNOWN]: Bear back.
[UNKNOWN]: So Legion Lee back as Cat Hardy after this is for me this is the third major role that I know her from she wasn't a film that I saw a while ago Chinese puzzles from one of my favorite bench directors, but anyway she
[UNKNOWN]: I know her best from the recent film's Babylon in 2022 where she played Lady Faizu who was a lesbian actress who kind of got chased out of Hollywood back to Europe by the changing morality codes.
[UNKNOWN]: And then of course we saw her last year as Grace Chow in sinners.
[UNKNOWN]: and she was completely a different person in all three of these roles.
[UNKNOWN]: I might not have even known it was the same person if I didn't know going in.
[UNKNOWN]: Hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: What do you think?
[UNKNOWN]: She was great.
[UNKNOWN]: She was great, cat is great.
[UNKNOWN]: I, the twist in turns with our character was awesome.
[UNKNOWN]: And the way that the journey played her was just remarkable.
[UNKNOWN]: But I really enjoyed her on-screen and in the way she manipulated things and all the the best possible of ways.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And I like that she, I mean, I think so apparently she wasn't her character was inspired by actresses like Anna May Wong, Rita Hayworth, Lauren Bacol, Kim Bassinger, and I think she, like, I know exactly what the references are for all of those.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, we already talked about two of those films, the lady from Shanghai and the big sleep.
[UNKNOWN]: But I just think, yeah, she nailed.
[UNKNOWN]: She nailed the mannerisms of the femme fatale.
[UNKNOWN]: Like that, every time she did that walk, I'm like, yes, that is the walk, it's a very specific walk.
[UNKNOWN]: I guess the only thing is, if there's a season two, I hope we get to see her suit up as black cats.
[UNKNOWN]: So do you want to tell people who, so she goes by cat hearty here, but do you want to tell people who Felicia her dear?
[UNKNOWN]: love interest, a lot of times, uh, villain, um, she's, uh, a thief extraordinaire, hence the name black guy, uh, she, she has powers that, um, bad luck seems to follow the people she directed at.
[UNKNOWN]: And so, uh, she's just, uh, uh,
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it would be cool to see her on screen as Black Cat.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it would be cool.
[UNKNOWN]: It would be cool.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I love seeing her as this nightclub singer, and, you know, complicated love interest who's plotting to kill Silverman.
[UNKNOWN]: As you say, she wants Black, bad luck to follow Silverman, and it's because.
[UNKNOWN]: And as we think about it, like the comic could be the comic version of Black Cat could be a fan for talent.
[UNKNOWN]: mm-hmm as I think about it more so it would be very appropriate if we get a season to if she was able to come back in that role I think that would be yeah that would that would be spot on actually
[UNKNOWN]: Um, I was talking in the most recent second breakfast episode, which is a subscriber extra about, uh, which we, you know, we've been keeping track of needle drops in television shows.
[UNKNOWN]: And I was like, oh, I have to choose one from this show.
[UNKNOWN]: And I've decided my needle drop for this show is her introduction and it's all on the industry.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: She sings Dream a little dream.
[UNKNOWN]: Dream a little dream.
[UNKNOWN]: love me, you know, but she just, the way she sings it and that iconic headpiece.
[UNKNOWN]: And this is one that I might like in color even more than black and I can't decide actually between the two, because the lighting is so like the lighting does different things in black and white versus color and that scene.
[UNKNOWN]: All right.
[UNKNOWN]: So when I watch it in color, I will weigh in with my opinion.
[UNKNOWN]: But see, like, there are things in the color side that you don't see, maybe I slightly prefer the black and white, but there are things in the color side that you don't see in the black and white, like, um, they all, the colorful clothing they're all wearing, like, and at one point, I had no idea she was wearing this two-tone green and gold sequin dress that I had no idea was like that until I saw it in color.
[UNKNOWN]: I was like, whoa, that dress.
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: But like, she's not just a pretty face.
[UNKNOWN]: She's also a pianist in a composer, and they show, you know, how she's feeling trapped by silver mane.
[UNKNOWN]: And she's really, she's just looking for a good guy who loves her, which is a lot of femme fatels are awful people, but she's not.
[UNKNOWN]: She's not an awful person.
[UNKNOWN]: She does questionable things.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, she did.
[UNKNOWN]: She does not want any more than one questionable thing to be on.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's see, so my boy out of, I said, oh man, I don't do it.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, oh man, I can't hear them.
[UNKNOWN]: You're not going to hurt him.
[UNKNOWN]: You're not going to hurt him, are you?
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like, yes, they are.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, I'm like, what do you think?
[UNKNOWN]: It's bad.
[UNKNOWN]: This is bad, bad, bad.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm giving mad scientists, ladies, going to give them cuddles and kisses.
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: Absolutely not.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, he's going to get hurt.
[UNKNOWN]: Don't do it.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, can you picture her?
[UNKNOWN]: So we found out she's previously in love with a dentist and Silvermean had him killed.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't, I'm kind of with Silvermean when he's like, you would have never been happy with him.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's be real.
[UNKNOWN]: One, hi, come on.
[UNKNOWN]: I think with Flint, yes, I could see it.
[UNKNOWN]: With Flint or Ben, I think she needs someone who's... We don't even know the dentist.
[UNKNOWN]: You'll be an anti-bentist.
[UNKNOWN]: It's true.
[UNKNOWN]: I shouldn't be at that time.
[UNKNOWN]: I did this.
[UNKNOWN]: I think you used to date a dentist for, or the non-ess actually.
[UNKNOWN]: And yes, she could have been happy with the dentist.
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe.
[UNKNOWN]: It just feels like, yeah, maybe Flint and or Ben.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a better fit for her.
[UNKNOWN]: It could have been a very stylish dentist.
[UNKNOWN]: But I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not like did he does he have that that creative spirit that thanks to that yearning that she You never know what he did with teeth.
[UNKNOWN]: He couldn't have been a very fast boy in dentists You never know Don't write off the dentists, man.
[UNKNOWN]: Come on.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't have to because silver man did a boy
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, but yeah, I felt though the pool like the love triangle between her ban and flint.
[UNKNOWN]: Like I felt there were times when she looked at ban and I was like, oh, I think she really does care for him.
[UNKNOWN]: But of course her older her first love in this situation.
[UNKNOWN]: That's fine.
[UNKNOWN]: So she hires Ben to look for Flint.
[UNKNOWN]: But then Roman starts brewing between her and Ben because you know, film noir.
[UNKNOWN]: And I like this whole sequence where she thinks he's a coward because he won't help her go safely.
[UNKNOWN]: But then of course, he goes as a spider and then she's like, wait a minute, you are the spider.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And she does this thing where she intentionally falls out the window to force him to catch her.
[UNKNOWN]: That's got to be a Superman reference.
[UNKNOWN]: Because we know, we know Nicholas Cage is a huge Superman fan, he always played Superman.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: That's, yeah, there's no way that's an accident.
[UNKNOWN]: Different reasons, but you know, lowest falling is not to prove that Clark is.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, she forces him to catch her because she's going to fall into Niagara Falls and she forces or it knows she or she goes in and he has to get no, yes, she goes in and then he has she he hides it, but then yes had to back it is building oh, I'm trying to remember sorry, it's been a couple years as well.
[UNKNOWN]: I think I think this one is a good one thing, right?
[UNKNOWN]: It's a guen thing, but again, that's the, when Ruby passed, right, who's here, the dive, right?
[UNKNOWN]: And this one is definitely a guen thing when she's falling off the building.
[UNKNOWN]: But like you said, it's also a Superman thing that he's going to catch, lowest whenever she falls.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but it's always also intentionally trying to force him to reveal himself.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and that movie.
[UNKNOWN]: But I'm thinking just in the broader sense of his men and women.
[UNKNOWN]: No, I'm not speaking.
[UNKNOWN]: Nineteen specifically, okay, yeah, yeah, okay, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what it made me think of first.
[UNKNOWN]: But I think, yeah, since you brought up Goen earlier, yeah, absolutely.
[UNKNOWN]: Also that thing where she falls in heat.
[UNKNOWN]: doesn't catch her in that case.
[UNKNOWN]: But do you read it?
[UNKNOWN]: Right, the Andrew Garfield movie doesn't catch her in a college.
[UNKNOWN]: It doesn't catch her, but in this he does.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yay.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It does proving that he is the spider back to lowest.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, right.
[UNKNOWN]: And um, what did you, are you a Brendan Gleason fan in general?
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
[UNKNOWN]: And I thought he was great in this.
[UNKNOWN]: So you played Fimbar, Finn, Bern, aka Silvermain.
[UNKNOWN]: So this is sort of like the Fisk standard.
[UNKNOWN]: And I know he comes from the comics also.
[UNKNOWN]: A lot of these are like, they didn't go with the most obvious one, but one with something similar from the comic.
[UNKNOWN]: I've never, I don't know that I've ever read a Silvermain comic, but I have to be honest that when I saw it in color, I was like, oh, his main is not as Silver as X-Pen.
[UNKNOWN]: But a lot of people have been talking about the fact that so Brendan Gleason is of course Irish, but he really dialed the accent up to 11 to be like what people call Irish, he's Irish.
[UNKNOWN]: And yeah, so he's in my boss who like Ben used to fight as a spider, but of course, he doesn't know until the end of Ben is the spider, and people keep trying to kill him because he's ruling the city through fear and murdering anyone he disagrees with.
[UNKNOWN]: So he is like a very fisk character, right?
[UNKNOWN]: No, he is.
[UNKNOWN]: He's like a crime boy's in Spider-Man comics and Marvel comics.
[UNKNOWN]: So like, we're going to call the, the Marvin, the magia magia, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so he's like a, he starts off as, you know, a member and he forms his own family, he runs a dime, so he's very much like the kingpin, like a New York city and
[UNKNOWN]: you know, enterprises for the street-level characters.
[UNKNOWN]: So Silver Man is definitely one of those and one of the more powerful ones.
[UNKNOWN]: He's always interacting with the street-level heroes in the Marvel Comics.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: In this, and I know in the comics, I think he's Italian and here of course.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, Sicilian.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's specifically.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: And so here, yeah, they went with an Irish backstory, which makes sense, because bread and glyce and was perfect casting.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, lean into that.
[UNKNOWN]: Also fits the era, too.
[UNKNOWN]: He references that he's a child of the famine of the, you know, data famine.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, yes.
[UNKNOWN]: Lost two brothers before he was born driven by hunger, literally.
[UNKNOWN]: And he says, I think it's interesting that he says he made it because of his gambler's car is hard.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes.
[UNKNOWN]: And it's not strength, gile or ruthlessness that got him there, but courage and restlessness.
[UNKNOWN]: which like it didn't just because of when he is saying this part to cat I'm like nodding along and like okay okay I'd see that but then he continues and he says to cat his advice is never be satisfied no one is ever going to give you what you want they're going to give you what they want to give you for their own reasons and she's like listening to this and her face is registering that she's like that's you you're talking about yourself
[UNKNOWN]: and I should never trust you and that's absolutely true and that's when she calls Janet and decides to, you know, do the double cross-back to Spitey side.
[UNKNOWN]: In that moment, I thought that he knew you're selling her.
[UNKNOWN]: You think, like, yeah, based on what he says at the end.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so that he, like, okay, let's let's talk about the confrontal confrontation for a minute in the Hall of Mears.
[UNKNOWN]: This is directly, uh, reference to that lady from Shanghai movie from 1947, the Orson Wells one.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, and it's also, it has this iconic ending set in this, like Hall of Mears, like that in that, in this case, I think it's on a boardwalk
[UNKNOWN]: But it ends very differently, like, it ends, it does, in both cases, I mean, actually that one, yeah, and that one had some more death than it was.
[UNKNOWN]: But here it just ends with him being killed, and he says truth is my love.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm happy it's you.
[UNKNOWN]: Why do you think he said that?
[UNKNOWN]: Wow, I thought about it for, in the, my first watch, and
[UNKNOWN]: It's not that I feel that I feel like he loves the cat.
[UNKNOWN]: Because I don't think this man is capable of that.
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't think that.
[UNKNOWN]: But I do think that for a person like that being killed by an enemy, by somebody who you know is gunning for you, someone who you know is that you hate.
[UNKNOWN]: is worse than being gunned down by someone who you think had some sort of affinity for you.
[UNKNOWN]: And on my second watch, I felt like he was saying I'm glad that you grew up finally.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm glad that you took my advice and you see the world for what it is and that you
[UNKNOWN]: Listen to what I've been trying to tell you all along and you took matters into your own hand and got away from me by killing me because that's the only way you were going to get away from me.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, I think he had as much affection for her as he could for anyone.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think also for Flint too and so I think also part of him was like okay,
[UNKNOWN]: I don't even, I just think it was a sense of pride that he got her to do this thing.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Got her to this point, like, yeah, I groomed you to be a killer, and now you're a killer.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm happy in this moment of my death that all my work grooming you led to this moment.
[UNKNOWN]: It's an interesting twist on the lady of Shanghai not to spoil and like 80-year-old movie or whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: But in that case.
[UNKNOWN]: Can a 80-year-old movie be spoiled?
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, is that a possibility?
[UNKNOWN]: Is that a possibility?
[UNKNOWN]: if you're planning on watching it because of because we said it's related to this hopefully you've stopped already and watched it but because here I am going to talk about the ending but in that Rita Hayworth's character is she's a femme fatale obviously and she it's funny because she basically did that to Orson Wells plays this sort of hero character he's not he's not a gum she was not a you know a private detective he's a sailor who she
[UNKNOWN]: gets to work on her husband's yacht while they take this cruise.
[UNKNOWN]: Anyway, and she turns out she's the entire time, she's manipulating him so that she will become a killer and kill her husband for her basically and take the blame in all this.
[UNKNOWN]: But then
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's funny.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like because both finale's take place in like fun house mirrors, but they are fun house mirrors of each other in like the way that their themes or twisted versions of the same thing.
[UNKNOWN]: But there's much nicer characters in this show in the end, I'll say.
[UNKNOWN]: A Glyson said that the Silvermean is a philosopher with a drone I view, who is dangerous because of that.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: Does he, like, he thinks he has a drone I view?
[UNKNOWN]: I'm kind of a philosopher, is he?
[UNKNOWN]: I never, I never met a philosopher like that in my life.
[UNKNOWN]: Kind of a philosophy.
[UNKNOWN]: He philosophyizing about what you're doing.
[UNKNOWN]: I disagree Brendan, I disagree with that totally.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that's the thing that the actor who plays that character should say, because I think the character thinks that about himself for sure.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, maybe, maybe.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I disagree.
[UNKNOWN]: I also think he is less of an overview than he thinks he does, or else he would have long known that the spider was Ben Riley.
[UNKNOWN]: Ben Riley?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, by the way, we didn't say that we learned that Ben Riley apparently is a name that he took on after the war.
[UNKNOWN]: So presumably that means his name is Peter Parker before that.
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe.
[UNKNOWN]: Hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Anyway, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, silver mane, like,
[UNKNOWN]: He got, you know, he had, he is evidence of karma.
[UNKNOWN]: He was doing a lot of bad things.
[UNKNOWN]: And so people kept trying to kill him.
[UNKNOWN]: They tried to burn down his house.
[UNKNOWN]: The entire city turned on him, tried to end, push his team at the docks.
[UNKNOWN]: And, you know, the mayor turned on him, Mayor Morris.
[UNKNOWN]: And he must have seen as this was going on, the control slipping away from him.
[UNKNOWN]: He's someone who liked to control people.
[UNKNOWN]: He kept cat in an apartment that he decorated and he told her what she could wear and what she could sing and obviously killed her boyfriend because it would have taken her away.
[UNKNOWN]: And he now he sees this control drifting out of his hands because people wake up and say, this guy sucks.
[UNKNOWN]: Would you think of the choice that Ben used to to mess with him about he says people lie only money tells a truth and Ben realizes Oh, he's marking his bills, which I've to say is much more obvious like in color.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like if you don't notice that there's a colored marker on your bill.
[UNKNOWN]: That's a problem in black and white.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like, yeah, that's so legal.
[UNKNOWN]: I love that line.
[UNKNOWN]: I just that I love that line.
[UNKNOWN]: Like I'm going to use that line in my regular life.
[UNKNOWN]: I love that life, people lie, only money tells the truth, God, that's that's like a, that's like a...
[UNKNOWN]: the Tories B. I. G. lies like a jay line.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like a nozzle.
[UNKNOWN]: I go men lie women lie numbers don't that's when jay said so I don't know that I just I disagree though because I think I know you just I do I need to think we all made up like it's lying all the time.
[UNKNOWN]: It's existence is a lie.
[UNKNOWN]: I love it.
[UNKNOWN]: We can we can we can talk about that for another three episodes.
[UNKNOWN]: Who wants a series of genre and I just dissecting everything the characters say?
[UNKNOWN]: Philosophizing.
[UNKNOWN]: Philosophizing for the drones I view.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, it was fun to see Lucas' house show up as, as Winston, Superman's right-hand man, um, he was like, in a way, he was one of the more villainous, like, one of the, the outright bad guys, where he's like, oh, too bad, you couldn't get Addison's widow out of town.
[UNKNOWN]: I had to slap her around a little.
[UNKNOWN]: I only had to slap her around a little bit to get the truth.
[UNKNOWN]: And it bends like, what a guy.
[UNKNOWN]: A lot of guys.
[UNKNOWN]: But did you feel bad that he became sacrificial lamb to keep that?
[UNKNOWN]: Absolutely not.
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: No, not actually bad.
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: Gotta go.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know why he's slapping.
[UNKNOWN]: He's slapping people or he's slapping women around now.
[UNKNOWN]: He didn't do it, but I didn't miss it, mother.
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: Even though I like the actor.
[UNKNOWN]: No, Luca has a school, Luca says, Yeah, but when did he have to go?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, I did wonder like how much, I don't know, like for instance, Mr. Carmity character, we meet him in the beginning, he comes in pretending to be cat's wife and hires Ben to go.
[UNKNOWN]: uh, to go spy on her and basically he wants photos to frame her as like, to being with the mayor so that, um, I don't know, this is for, for silver main to catch whatever, to like, he suspects her.
[UNKNOWN]: Blackmail.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and he's, or we kill her, you know, he's a specter of, of, of being the one who, like, sent Addison to Burden on his place, for example.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, and then we find out that Mr. Carmody is really just this guy named Hicks, and you're like, what does Silvermain have on you and everyone else to force you to do these things?
[UNKNOWN]: probably pictures.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, he's like very much.
[UNKNOWN]: So you're going to take pictures, right?
[UNKNOWN]: Pictures?
[UNKNOWN]: Do you take pictures?
[UNKNOWN]: Men's like, yeah, do you like the front of the job?
[UNKNOWN]: Joe.
[UNKNOWN]: By the way, taking pictures of the guy putting stamps on himself.
[UNKNOWN]: It's no random.
[UNKNOWN]: God, it's always that.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, like, what is going on in this building?
[UNKNOWN]: We all got our kids.
[UNKNOWN]: That one doesn't hurt anyone.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, yeah, I did.
[UNKNOWN]: I loved all these little side characters, and the politics were muted, but kind of on point.
[UNKNOWN]: In a way, we only saw Alfred Morris the mayor, and we find out that there is a rival named Hudson, who's being run against him, and we never even really see Hudson, he's a puppet of Silverman, right?
[UNKNOWN]: That's the implication.
[UNKNOWN]: So even so that's why it's like we don't really like Morris isn't a great guy, but at least he's not silver maids pop it But he's terrible though, and his own right he stays Morris.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, Morris Morris Morris.
[UNKNOWN]: But he's he's in prohibition Well, yeah, I guess that doesn't stink, but But what do you can say no I just just think he's um
[UNKNOWN]: He's a politician now, an opportunistic camera greedy.
[UNKNOWN]: He's gonna try to twist and turn every person's victory into something of his own.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, I thought Morris, the Morris character was very true to how I see the majority of politicians.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, you know, that this political situation was definitely a case of choosing the least of the awful evils.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, you can't help but root for him when he's teaming up with the chief of police to take silver main down, but it's also like,
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know that I went to either of you and power out there.
[UNKNOWN]: Exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: But I think Ben would make a terrible mayor.
[UNKNOWN]: How about we're happy with you?
[UNKNOWN]: A lobby for mayor.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I probably would be a good mayor.
[UNKNOWN]: But then, you know, Morris, he's got the city on his side, but he loses his advantage when Silvermean gets some super power at thugs.
[UNKNOWN]: So let's take a quick final break here and when we come back, we're going to talk about
[UNKNOWN]: of Spider-Noir.
[UNKNOWN]: So Silver main he has he has these two goons Perry and Pudge who first of all pushed around our queen Janet screw them I couldn't even I was trying to pay attention to my second watch like did they both die in the finale?
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not sure don't necessarily care No, I don't think they did
[UNKNOWN]: I thought maybe they ran when once like the fighting started going started, yeah, I don't see them that I don't remember them dying on screen because there were people who got shot down and like that shoot out in the rest.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, but I think they were like red shirts basically.
[UNKNOWN]: it's a Star Trek reference.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, but then they kind of get pushed to the background.
[UNKNOWN]: They're like always there, and they're just there throughout, but really for good reasons, however, means like, no, the real power is in the super powered ones.
[UNKNOWN]: So first is the one who attacks him.
[UNKNOWN]: We meet James Jimmy at a sin in the first episode.
[UNKNOWN]: And he has some sort of pyrotechnesis abilities.
[UNKNOWN]: This is a brand new character for the show, not in the comic books.
[UNKNOWN]: And as we've said before, like his Ben's PI friend for the day.
[UNKNOWN]: He ends up shooting and killing him because he's like,
[UNKNOWN]: And that leaves behind Vera, Addison, his widow, who just definitely loves money more than she did her husband or like who loves people less, Vera or Silver Maine?
[UNKNOWN]: Silver Maine?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Silver Maine.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I guess.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: Vera, like she was very-
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: Someone made doesn't have anyone.
[UNKNOWN]: But who does virilove other than that?
[UNKNOWN]: We don't.
[UNKNOWN]: We don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: That's my thing.
[UNKNOWN]: Like she was perfectly happy to sell cat out until she's like, oh, we can blame that Winston guy instead.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, no.
[UNKNOWN]: He hurt me.
[UNKNOWN]: Let's blame him.
[UNKNOWN]: But she was like, she's not on anybody side, but her own.
[UNKNOWN]: I agree, but I know for a fact that someone made does not love anyone and cannot
[UNKNOWN]: I can't say the same for Vera.
[UNKNOWN]: She doesn't have anybody that's in her orbit right now, but that doesn't preclude her from loving.
[UNKNOWN]: I think silver maids without redemption, personally.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: I kind of think that's the same level until I see her show, given the bit of affection to like a bird or something.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't mean that's fair.
[UNKNOWN]: That's fair.
[UNKNOWN]: Uh, what did you think of, so I was glad to see Jack Houston here, he, obviously, Angelica Houston's son.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, pet and lots of things, but I mostly know him from a boardwalk empire, and he plays Lashar in the May Fair Witches, are you familiar with him from other things?
[UNKNOWN]: Um, not really.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, I don't even recall him from boardwalk the empire.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, he was the one with a mask arm because, uh, half his face was shut off.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, that's my guy, I didn't realize that was my guy in them in that series.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, all right, okay.
[UNKNOWN]: Jack Houston, sorry, I was not familiar with your game, my bad.
[UNKNOWN]: We did you think of him as Flint Marko slash said man.
[UNKNOWN]: I like them in this role.
[UNKNOWN]: I thought he was, he played it well because Flint is not a realist.
[UNKNOWN]: To me, Sandman and a lot of the Spider-Man properties is not out and right, bad guy.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, he does bad things, he is a villain, but he is redeemable in my eyes.
[UNKNOWN]: even in the comic book.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, I like it in the movies, so we've seen them in too far.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so I like that they kept that and they showed that this this is somebody who's you know, can have some redeeming qualities and it's not fully
[UNKNOWN]: And I liked the portrayal, and I liked how his powers worked and how they showed it working, his transformation, if that's what we can call them.
[UNKNOWN]: It was just done well.
[UNKNOWN]: Try to hold on to some semblance of humanity.
[UNKNOWN]: I enjoyed all of the villains here.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, no, they were great, different levels of evil as we'll talk about.
[UNKNOWN]: And he's like the medium flavor where I don't think he was evil at all.
[UNKNOWN]: He just cat called him loyal to a fault.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think, but then the question is always like, who is he loyal to?
[UNKNOWN]: The loyal to, right?
[UNKNOWN]: That's going to, you know, he's cat's bodyguard to start.
[UNKNOWN]: But then he becomes like Silverman's henchman obviously once he's like, Oh, you have superpowers now?
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, that's interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: but then at some point it seems like he chooses silver main overcats, obviously the changes in the end, but
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, it's because I guess I'm questioning like, should I be mad at Kat for cheating on him with Ben?
[UNKNOWN]: Because at the end of the day, like she just wants to run away to Santa Rini.
[UNKNOWN]: And Flint is, I think Flint is maybe pushing her away because he knows like he's going to die because of this condition.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And yeah, so he's like, well, better I just stay with Silver Maid and who maybe has some abstract idea might be able to help him and let KAC go live her life.
[UNKNOWN]: Is that how you read it?
[UNKNOWN]: I think I read it exactly that way.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I think he doesn't want KAC to see him as Sandman, right?
[UNKNOWN]: And he wants to be able to
[UNKNOWN]: to be human with her, but he can't be, even if he's not doing, he's not out and around and committing crimes or anything like that, it's just the simple nature of what he is now is no longer a human and he doesn't want her around that and it's too painful for him
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, I just think he said fuck it.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm not human anymore, so I'm out as well.
[UNKNOWN]: Just you know Work for this guy who's terrible, but Well, he I don't know that he thought he was terrible because he's like he thought he was loyal to him He knows he's terrible.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't buy that.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know so many this term He's watchy.
[UNKNOWN]: He was cast body guy.
[UNKNOWN]: He knows he's terrible
[UNKNOWN]: true.
[UNKNOWN]: True.
[UNKNOWN]: Apparently his super powers kicked in about six months ago will come back to that with a doctor, but now it's it seems to be progressing very quickly.
[UNKNOWN]: So I imagine for Kat, this is like a real whiplash in how he's treating her.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, definitely.
[UNKNOWN]: Definitely.
[UNKNOWN]: So she, yeah, she agrees to run away with Ben, but then as soon as she sees away, I guess because
[UNKNOWN]: Watching him.
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe.
[UNKNOWN]: Basically, be silver mains goon until he dissolves it.
[UNKNOWN]: I think that was more, more of it, not just watching him die, but watching him be silver mains goon.
[UNKNOWN]: Hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Nothing, that's what was driving her away because if he wasn't silver mains goon, I don't think anything would have happened with her and then personally, but I feel like
[UNKNOWN]: that his deteriorating, you know, and also being Silverman's boon was just too much.
[UNKNOWN]: It's like, I can't fucking shoot.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I can't be around this, you know what I mean?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Let me open myself up to other possibilities because this one is not anything that I could stomach.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I mean, it honestly, their relationship seems healthier than you might expect in a superior job.
[UNKNOWN]: Like she does, she's betraying him and Ben for each other, but she...
[UNKNOWN]: she ultimately she chooses him because she says to him, you love to me at my worst and you pushed me to be better, which is honestly the most you could hope for in a true part.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: But I do believe her that, you know, in another universe she and bed and could have done laundry in Texas, or to be honest, in another universe, specifically the comics universe, they are already together.
[UNKNOWN]: So, this one of the betrayals that Flint was most stung by, she took him to the theater.
[UNKNOWN]: And I was just saying, when I watched the theater setting in black and white, I was like, Oh, I can't wait to see this in color because it looks so like atmospheric and detailed in black and white.
[UNKNOWN]: And when I saw it in colors, like, oh, it's pretty in color, but it's just...
[UNKNOWN]: better than the black and white he had had like atmosphere it seemed more clean somehow and that's interesting yeah well yeah so she she did take Ben there that's true but he also took uh Lincoln, Lonnie Lincoln aka Tombstone there so it's not like he's doesn't have friends
[UNKNOWN]: Um, no, I know you and I have, we've previously talked about a version of this character with, um, but it's a call to get in the, um, amazing adventures of Superman and what's the new one?
[UNKNOWN]: Spider-Man, Spider-Man, Spider-Man, Spider-Man, Spider-Man, Spider-Man.
[UNKNOWN]: No, but what is, what's the freaking thing called, the, uh,
[UNKNOWN]: Friendly neighborhood adventures.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, you're friendly neighborhood Spider-Man.
[UNKNOWN]: That's what's gone.
[UNKNOWN]: You're friendly neighborhood Spider-Man.
[UNKNOWN]: The animated series, there's a season one that's out now, season two, coming relatively soon.
[UNKNOWN]: So this is like maybe this, so we have Lonnie Lincoln as Tombstone.
[UNKNOWN]: This is maybe like the most faithful character in some ways, but in other ways, he kind of looks like an armadillo when he gets his powers.
[UNKNOWN]: What do you think about this as a version of Tombstone?
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't see tombstone.
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: Why not?
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: Because when I imagine tombstone, I don't imagine them looking like...
[UNKNOWN]: I imagine them looking like the comic version I think.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Great show, almost.
[UNKNOWN]: Like a tombstone.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: So, but the way that, you know, Lonnie Lincoln is in here, I don't want to say that he's not a criminal enough, it's a different character, not because in the comic books, and you know, when I watch these things, I have to often separate those comic books from what I'm watching.
[UNKNOWN]: He is a villain.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, he's one of Spider-Man's biggest villains, actually, but the enemy is serious.
[UNKNOWN]: We really get a pathetic.
[UNKNOWN]: The enemy series is totally different from the comic books again.
[UNKNOWN]: And for the better, I think, you know, it gives more depth to the character.
[UNKNOWN]: And here it also gives you more depth to the character.
[UNKNOWN]: Because he's not just simply, you know, I'm going to rob, I'm going to steal, I'm
[UNKNOWN]: build my criminal empire, haha, you know, he's not just that.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think it's the story is served way better with him being, you know, on some sort of, you know, wavelength where you're trying to figure out if you're going to be, um, stay true to your morals or if circumstances are
[UNKNOWN]: like we have to remember like these men were soldiers, right.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, and we think of them as fighting the good fight.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm sure they thought of themselves in that way too.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, just obviously they probably were drafted into the army and they went overseas to fight and now they're here doing things and working for someone who
[UNKNOWN]: I don't think they would have ever imagined that they would have been working for.
[UNKNOWN]: Circumstances, what will you do when the circumstances change?
[UNKNOWN]: Who will you be?
[UNKNOWN]: And I think those are fascinating questions to ask, and we get to see them ask by these on characters, specifically these, these quote-unquote freaks.
[UNKNOWN]: I kept thinking he was kind of in super powers way, like a combination of Luke Cage and Jessica Jones in the way.
[UNKNOWN]: He's like, he's indestructible, bulletproof, superhuman strength and durability, but then also with Armadela Skin.
[UNKNOWN]: No, that's a good point, that's a good point.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, what did you think about him?
[UNKNOWN]: He said, I'm done putting my life on the line for white men, although he still of course remains a friend of Flint and Ben earns his trust as well.
[UNKNOWN]: Totally understand, brother, my brother.
[UNKNOWN]: I get it, I get it out of the story.
[UNKNOWN]: Especially not so vermin, but yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Especially not so vermin, right?
[UNKNOWN]: And I get the compromises that you have to make.
[UNKNOWN]: And the decisions that you have to do and the ways that you have to be in this world, especially at that time.
[UNKNOWN]: And I think being in the war, coming home,
[UNKNOWN]: and having the experiences that you have as a black man when you went overseas to fight for freedom, both in World War I and to an incumbent back to non-freedom is, you know, real.
[UNKNOWN]: And he deals with it in a way that is different from Robbie.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, there's a spectrum in how the world impacts you and how you react to that impinging.
[UNKNOWN]: Right, and we get to see it in these two characters specifically who are, you know, I would say they're very, they're on opposite ends of the spectrum.
[UNKNOWN]: But I liked his interaction with Robby at the end when he says to Robby like, you know, the world needs people like you as much as it needs people like the spider that he's really appreciating the way that Robby approaches things and yeah, even though he's not going to approach him and that way.
[UNKNOWN]: No, it's not him, but he's still not Robby's out there, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Absolutely.
[UNKNOWN]: So, I think the, I'm gonna argue the most possibly most terrible white man of them all in this show, and but actually a Loki favorite of mine from like the camp perspective is the Dirk Lighten I'm pronouncing it the Dutch way.
[UNKNOWN]: It's really late in English, character, aka megawatt.
[UNKNOWN]: So we're talking not electro, but megawatt.
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't even know this character existed where you familiar with this character from the comics.
[UNKNOWN]: I think he's from the comics because I looked it up afterwards and I was like, what is this?
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't even look it up.
[UNKNOWN]: I just assumed that this was a wholesale new character for this show.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, no, I think so you're telling me something that I didn't know.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, so yeah, so it is, I obviously neither of us have read the comics that this character comes from, but it is another electricity controlling character.
[UNKNOWN]: So I think it's interesting that they're like, let's take some classic Spider-Man villains, but like, not fisc, let's do silver rain, not electro, let's do mega watt.
[UNKNOWN]: But Lonnie Lincoln, you're cool.
[UNKNOWN]: And I saw a mixed view, like mixed reviews of this aspect online, but I personally love the voice he put on.
[UNKNOWN]: I thought it was so much fun.
[UNKNOWN]: They were so campy, and I enjoyed that so much.
[UNKNOWN]: I thought he was a great villain, like not like flint, not like Lonnie.
[UNKNOWN]: This was a terrible person who was a villain.
[UNKNOWN]: That's right.
[UNKNOWN]: One of these Shakespearean stage actors, but uh... That's what mommy issues.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, stuck with it as a subway driver.
[UNKNOWN]: Which is who it's ironic he's killed by a subway car or a metro car.
[UNKNOWN]: I'll say, I liked the way they did his characters.
[UNKNOWN]: Sorry, his powers.
[UNKNOWN]: I like the way they did his lectures.
[UNKNOWN]: But they looked super cool and black and white.
[UNKNOWN]: If you watch this in color, it's worth watching in black and white almost for his powers alone.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, yeah, they really stood out.
[UNKNOWN]: They really stood out.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's funny to think in retrospect, he only showed up.
[UNKNOWN]: I was noticing in my rewatch, he only shows up at the very end of episode four.
[UNKNOWN]: So right at the mid-season point, but then he makes, he kind of like takes over the villainy in a way.
[UNKNOWN]: do you see where I'm coming from where in some ways I think he's worse than silver main as a person?
[UNKNOWN]: Oh yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, yes, yes.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, obviously that eventually like flint is already given him the side eye the whole time he's like I don't trust this guy and then when he attacked Kat, obviously all bets are off and then Ben of course is also anti-attacking Kat, so throw this in the train.
[UNKNOWN]: and that's that, but you know at the same point, he has, you know, he has a point when it comes to the question of why she would silver-main control the people with the real talents, why should the person with the money get to control, you know, the people who can actually do things and how they use that.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's the thing, it's a great question to ask in superhero genre,
[UNKNOWN]: you know, why is Nick Sherry, why is Allegra different thing you know, why does Lex Luther, you know, anyone who doesn't have powers, why do you think you can control what I do?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: What is it with me within me or what is it within you that makes you think you can control what I do?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And that's a great question to ask.
[UNKNOWN]: Like why why do studio execs get to control the people who actually make the stuff, you know?
[UNKNOWN]: The people of the creativity superpowers.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: The man's asking questions.
[UNKNOWN]: Look at them that.
[UNKNOWN]: And also he maybe gives the best death, which is clearly a Batman returns reference where he's had this guard who's been torturing him.
[UNKNOWN]: And for some reason ends up spending the night sleeping in the cell next to him.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, he's in the just whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: Find five by five.
[UNKNOWN]: TV staging, whatever.
[UNKNOWN]: But then he gives him the kiss of death, but the electricity, and nice, so that remains like that was weird.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like, no, that was cat woman.
[UNKNOWN]: You should say, I'll save one life for a rainy day.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, that was nice.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, we call cat the femme fatale, but actually the most fatal woman in this would be
[UNKNOWN]: My assignment is on deck.
[UNKNOWN]: I thought I was interesting.
[UNKNOWN]: Janet at one point, she refers to this as some sort of failed super soldier program.
[UNKNOWN]: So does that mean in this universe, Captain America was a World War I hero?
[UNKNOWN]: Like how do they know about the super soldier program in 1933?
[UNKNOWN]: But it's failed, so I didn't know.
[UNKNOWN]: No, well, she's saying that this one with the, you know, our quote unquote, freaks of this show is failed.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: We have it.
[UNKNOWN]: So we find out that the doctor is trying to find a cure for the medications and we learn it's because her son, Ogden, Faber, who used to be known as freckles, is we meet him as an old man who's Dr. Faber's secretary, but then we find out it's her son who got like the worst superpower ever.
[UNKNOWN]: It's not even super power.
[UNKNOWN]: He just, not always terrible because that old.
[UNKNOWN]: it's like okay.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm just going to tie a life here.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, so I'm wondering how that happened, but anyway, but yeah, she wants to save him and she thinks that Ben is the key because Ben is the one who's had these superpowers this whole time without dying.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'm
[UNKNOWN]: curious like what okay so I get that why she thinks like okay Ben is the key to stabilizing that's because obviously it happened with Ben obviously also she is a mad scientist who has a lab full of dead mutated soldiers in glass cases like get rid of that shit when you're done I don't know what's like oh gosh you're still studying them because I think they're
[UNKNOWN]: but what she cut something out of Ben's liver and he actually goes full on yellow for a while.
[UNKNOWN]: And like why do I remember, I can't remember where this came from because I couldn't find this on the rewatch like that something about like why is his liver a mitigating factor when he's an alcoholic?
[UNKNOWN]: You would think that like that would be, well he's also super-powered, right?
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, but why maybe stabilize it?
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe duh.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: I would have thought that the thing that was different is that instead of him being directly hooked up to the animal, he was bitten by someone else.
[UNKNOWN]: So there's like this step in between.
[UNKNOWN]: That would have been my guess.
[UNKNOWN]: That's not the direction they want.
[UNKNOWN]: I have to think about that.
[UNKNOWN]: how freaky was the dream though when she cuts into his liver and he dreams like his mask turns into a giant spider that was great that was great so much better in black and white again that was so awesome you know it was very creepy yeah you can only see his face goes yellow and color though so see both both sides have their
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, she's a math scientist, she's, you know, sometimes it's always going to work.
[UNKNOWN]: At one point, I think, she had all these failures before, after.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: At her.
[UNKNOWN]: You learned from me.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, eventually you get the right combination, and that's it, boom.
[UNKNOWN]: but Ben, sorry, but Ogden is a good one, her son.
[UNKNOWN]: Actually, he goes to save Ben, and then goes back for his mother, and then I don't know, so, okay, so he gets the antidote, he's cured, and then it looks like they both die in the fire, but I didn't see them burn.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know that I- Me, I do exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't believe that they passed that they're gone.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, I don't, yeah, I want to see the burnt bodies or no death.
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, if this is the only season, we get that's fine.
[UNKNOWN]: That's a fine ending for them.
[UNKNOWN]: But if we get a new season, I would not it all be surprised if at least the sun came back.
[UNKNOWN]: And of course, Ben gets out with the antidote and Kat, this is the point where she's like listening to silver mane and she's like, oh, all right, let me go stop the jam.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[UNKNOWN]: And so she says like, okay, and this is true, and she's absolutely right.
[UNKNOWN]: She can get close enough to deliver the into the antidote to flint and laden.
[UNKNOWN]: Obviously, though, you need silver may not to get in the way.
[UNKNOWN]: And this leads to, I loved this finale standoff where it's like, you have to call a spider.
[UNKNOWN]: But of course, he is the spider.
[UNKNOWN]: But then, of course, that's why Robbie is helping there.
[UNKNOWN]: uh... laden recognizes uh... bed from you know being saved from the camp you would think like the guy who saved you shot up and let him live no
[UNKNOWN]: and then yeah and then cat she kind of redeems herself here actually because she's like trying to she's like don't go after him he's not going to save me because i broke his heart and i'm the one who tried to kill you and she's pulling all of the heat onto herself
[UNKNOWN]: And then, of course, just in the nick of time, because television, Ronnie walks and dresses a spider and we have that delightful exchange.
[UNKNOWN]: That was just great.
[UNKNOWN]: That was probably my favorite scenes of the, of the, of the entire series.
[UNKNOWN]: But I was frustrated with Robbie when he's like, I thought it was stupid to bring the antidote inside.
[UNKNOWN]: He's like, oh, yeah, much better to leave it outside with Janet with the goons together.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: And then at the end, we said obviously late and gets killed, flints, and Lonnie are short, do you think?
[UNKNOWN]: Maybe?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I don't know.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, it seems weird that they would be here forever.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, they may be stabilized.
[UNKNOWN]: maybe stabilize like if there's another if if it again if this is the only season fine but if there's another season I would be shocked if they didn't bring those actors back with Superman even I wouldn't be mad at it hmm you know I wouldn't be upset I wouldn't be upset no not at all I wouldn't be upset at all
[UNKNOWN]: Although I hope Ronnie has a nice time in the meanwhile and Niagara Falls with this Do you think if there had been a cure left over?
[UNKNOWN]: Do you think Ben would have actually taken it?
[UNKNOWN]: No, I don't think so either No, I don't think he would I mean I wouldn't I'll keep my spider powers if they're not gonna kill him Yeah, I don't think he would have I think by that by the end
[UNKNOWN]: is he seeing war to embrace what he is and stop, you know, kicking himself in the rear because of what happened.
[UNKNOWN]: So I don't think he would have taken that.
[UNKNOWN]: No, no, I think maybe we're seeing, we talked about him loathing himself, you know, the freak.
[UNKNOWN]: But I think by the end of the season, we're seeing movement toward the arc of accepting himself more.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: His advantages and disadvantages, but also, and also the ways that he can, the ways that he can help, especially help his friends.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I know.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, exactly.
[UNKNOWN]: So do you want to season two?
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, more for it.
[UNKNOWN]: But like you've said before, if this is the only season then they did it.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, they didn't leave any threads hanging.
[UNKNOWN]: It's a story that was told in the story that was told well, and that's great.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, I would love to be dropped back into this universe.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it's a near perfect season of television as is, but it also, it wouldn't, it would feel like a natural continuation of the story, if to have another season and there is, I want, I want to spend more time with these characters.
[UNKNOWN]: I want, you know, I've said some of the things I would love to see like,
[UNKNOWN]: cat soothing up and Janet with her husband.
[UNKNOWN]: What is that?
[UNKNOWN]: That home dynamic.
[UNKNOWN]: What's going to like are they going to adopt what's his face the kid, you know, Frankie?
[UNKNOWN]: Is that just name?
[UNKNOWN]: yes um yeah so i would love to see it and it would be fun and i would be for it but these would just be like small cameo moments uh if this version of the character showed up in the spite of verse movies or secret wars that would be who
[UNKNOWN]: I don't expect it to be.
[UNKNOWN]: No, but maybe it's either of these more so, but yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, but I would be cool.
[UNKNOWN]: It would be cool to for that to happen.
[UNKNOWN]: But do I think it's going to happen?
[UNKNOWN]: No.
[UNKNOWN]: I want like double Nick Cage and secret wars.
[UNKNOWN]: Just cameyos, but like I want Johnny Blaze and co-swriter.
[UNKNOWN]: And I want one Ben Riley spider noir.
[UNKNOWN]: Bring it on.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't know if it's going to happen.
[UNKNOWN]: I want like a whole motorcycle brigade of ghost writers, though.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm like give us all the ghost writers.
[UNKNOWN]: I want to be mad at that.
[UNKNOWN]: I wouldn't be mad at that at all.
[UNKNOWN]: You know, I'm way faded-bred or midnight, so.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, I know.
[UNKNOWN]: About this show, will it make your top 10 do you think of TV at the end of the year?
[UNKNOWN]: I mean, it's in my top five right now.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: So you have, I'm pretty sure it's going to be a much opportunity.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I think it's even for me, the moment, and we'll see, you know, one's a recent bias, loosens its grip.
[UNKNOWN]: At the moment, I'd say it's like number three after the like, the vampire list app, which nothing else can touch, obviously.
[UNKNOWN]: It would have been, which is like, the surprise piece of perfection this year.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, I have not finished widows being at so okay.
[UNKNOWN]: There's one more episode but the finale could ruin it, but I don't think so.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, um, I haven't seen the vampire, the site, um, did you watch interview with the prior, the first two season?
[UNKNOWN]: I didn't, I didn't.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, okay, yeah, I would recommend starting there, but yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, all right, fair.
[UNKNOWN]: But I think you like, I still think Wonder Man for me is the best.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, that's definitely, that's in my top five still too.
[UNKNOWN]: But in every of the vampires, so I have to tell you one thing, they updated from the show to make it really specific.
[UNKNOWN]: And it reminds me of the way that they incorporated the history, for example, of Storyville in New Orleans.
[UNKNOWN]: And it almost, like I learned things about it in the way that I've learned about the Tulsa Massacre from.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, right, right.
[UNKNOWN]: It was amazing, I think, like that.
[UNKNOWN]: So, that's good to hear.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm glad.
[UNKNOWN]: Wow.
[UNKNOWN]: I recommend it.
[UNKNOWN]: It's definitely make sure E is nowhere nearby because much, much blood, very sex.
[UNKNOWN]: Five, five, plus on the, on the scale.
[UNKNOWN]: I like to turn up the, I just did a re-watch of it and I was surprised.
[UNKNOWN]: I was like, oh yeah, there is a lot of gore, but it's like,
[UNKNOWN]: Well, there's also domestic abuse and stuff because it's funny, but it's very dark at times, too, but there's also a lot of time this is the gore is played for laughs.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, all right, but still good to know that he won't be watching it.
[UNKNOWN]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, but yeah, I think it's been a good couple months for TV.
[UNKNOWN]: So yeah, I mean, so we have on the Lorehouse main feed, we we have weekly the vampire list at coverage going on.
[UNKNOWN]: Bout to start weekly house of the dragon coverage with with you.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, next week, actually next week.
[UNKNOWN]: It's going to be you and me the first two weeks, then you and David for the rest.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, next week.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, look afar to that.
[UNKNOWN]: And we into the West, just released a conversation to Anna Jean Hackman, so that's David and Brian and Lisa.
[UNKNOWN]: And next week, there's going to be yeah, more coming up in the public view, David and I are talking about disclosure day, the new Steven Spielberg movie.
[UNKNOWN]: Nice.
[UNKNOWN]: I haven't seen it.
[UNKNOWN]: You've seen it.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Oh, what do you think?
[UNKNOWN]: You've seen it.
[UNKNOWN]: It was a fun summer blockbuster.
[UNKNOWN]: And Emily Blunt is phenomenal, which obviously, David's a huge Emily Blunt fan.
[UNKNOWN]: So I hope you'll be happy with that.
[UNKNOWN]: And we're doing a widows bay wrap up, probably, end up next week as well.
[UNKNOWN]: So can't wait for that.
[UNKNOWN]: That's been one of the big delights of this year, as I was just saying, widows bay, horror comedy.
[UNKNOWN]: If you like horror comedy, and you're not watching widows bay, do yourself a favor and fix that immediately.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, and yeah, what's up?
[UNKNOWN]: What's coming up for comics versus we have a busy summer coming up.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, we got super world in two weeks time.
[UNKNOWN]: Mm-hmm.
[UNKNOWN]: Uh, I can't wait for that.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm excited for that.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, X man 97 season 2 July July 1st.
[UNKNOWN]: Um, what else do we have?
[UNKNOWN]: We have lanterns coming up.
[UNKNOWN]: Spider-Man Brass.
[UNKNOWN]: Spider-Man, brand new day.
[UNKNOWN]: And I'm still, we're going to do a special, what you're watching, because I'm going to watch him.
[UNKNOWN]: Masses of the, yeah, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm watching the masses of the universe movie at some point between this weekend next.
[UNKNOWN]: So, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: I will be talking about it.
[UNKNOWN]: No, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It's, I haven't seen it yet, but I have a seat reserved for it for, I have to, I need to look up what day.
[UNKNOWN]: But yeah, yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: It definitely still looks.
[UNKNOWN]: So that's something what you're watching is one of the categories of extra episodes that supercast and Patreon subscribers get.
[UNKNOWN]: So if you are a supercast and Patreon subscriber, you get ad free access to all of this plus bonus episodes like those what you watchens.
[UNKNOWN]: We also just did the sheep detectives.
[UNKNOWN]: You and David were doing is God.
[UNKNOWN]: Yes, we're going to do is God is
[UNKNOWN]: So, probably this week, what a haunting film.
[UNKNOWN]: Let me just say.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay, I'm looking forward to seeing you and I have been watching it.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, and Master's at the universe, that's going to be a fun silly one.
[UNKNOWN]: I grew up watching he men in Shira and like playing he men in Shira as a kid.
[UNKNOWN]: Absolutely.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't care.
[UNKNOWN]: I unabashedly love the one from the 80s.
[UNKNOWN]: I don't care.
[UNKNOWN]: And then June for our regular extra episodes, the theme was the sake episode just went out for second breakfast and our eleventhsies movie, movie club this month is hard boiled from John
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah, it ended up winning by a good amount in the end.
[UNKNOWN]: So it actually, it is like David pointed out.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm partially through that movie now.
[UNKNOWN]: And David pointed out that it is like has some overlap with noir.
[UNKNOWN]: And since he said that I've been paying attention.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, yeah, yeah, no, he's right.
[UNKNOWN]: It's got like the complicated plot and the man or the hard bullets of tech.
[UNKNOWN]: I watched that movie with my friends.
[UNKNOWN]: at least, I don't know, 30 times, when whether we were sober or not.
[UNKNOWN]: And every time, it was a total blast.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, I don't know if I've ever seen that movie alone.
[UNKNOWN]: Like, it's always been, it was always a celebration.
[UNKNOWN]: doing something random and we're like, y'all, this is put on the, the, the hard boil and the DVD will come out and boom and we're all there and it's just so such a wonderful, wonderful movie.
[UNKNOWN]: Well, I'd to finally get that off my first shameless.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm glad for you too.
[UNKNOWN]: I'm happy for you because if you haven't seen your heart boil just yeah just making your business to see them.
[UNKNOWN]: And then next month, the themes, it's going to be my month in July.
[UNKNOWN]: So based on some prior conversations we had last month, I've decided to go with it's wine month.
[UNKNOWN]: So it's going to be wine 101.
[UNKNOWN]: So I'm going to be asking people some questions about wines they like in giving recommendations based on my background in wine school.
[UNKNOWN]: Okay.
[UNKNOWN]: And then the theme going along with that is Invinosinimasu.
[UNKNOWN]: that will be picking our selections and putting it up for a vote in the next few weeks.
[UNKNOWN]: Nice.
[UNKNOWN]: See, all right.
[UNKNOWN]: We got some Jazzy Harlem Knights coming in in honor of our Mr. Harlem Harald Robbie.
[UNKNOWN]: Woo!
[UNKNOWN]: All right.
[UNKNOWN]: So if you enjoy this, the best thing that you can do, it's absolutely free share this with anyone else, you think would enjoy this episode, anyone else who's watching Spider Noir or should be watching Spider Noir, you have no idea how much that helps us.
[UNKNOWN]: nice reviews wherever you're listening or also an enormous help.
[UNKNOWN]: And do also please check out our other affiliates in the network.
[UNKNOWN]: We have properly how we're moving reviews.
[UNKNOWN]: Never mind the music where psychology meets music, radioactive ramblings.
[UNKNOWN]: They just were doing invincible coverage.
[UNKNOWN]: Will she have dust?
[UNKNOWN]: Starting, weekly coverage of silo starting July 3rd, so watch out for that, and the Star Wars Canon Timeline podcast, my other podcast, and thank you always to our community volunteers, the June 9th, if we have hand of the pot, Nancy, aka two kids, two dogs, Captain of the Poel
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[UNKNOWN]: All right, final thoughts for, let's send this one to Mr. Nicholas Cage.
[UNKNOWN]: What do we want to say to him now?
[UNKNOWN]: Never, never stop.
[UNKNOWN]: Keep being you, Booth.
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