WEBVTT 00:01.235 --> 00:06.200 [SPEAKER_03]: Hi, I'm Professor Beckstrock, and I'm Professor Erick Bronson, and this is Prison News. 00:19.189 --> 00:21.351 [SPEAKER_04]: Who's wrote on your new shoes? 00:21.711 --> 00:43.907 [SPEAKER_04]: Cause it's time to get up off your chair And give the news without a case It is the news Wash your wedding news Cause it's the prison news It's the news I hope I do 00:45.365 --> 00:51.353 [SPEAKER_03]: I love the way that song brings us in on something that, wow, this is going to be some really uplifting positive news here. 00:52.234 --> 00:55.678 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, yeah, it makes me feel more newsy than I've ever felt before. 00:56.319 --> 01:00.524 [SPEAKER_03]: And it absolutely allows us to know a false sense of security because, uh, ho, ho, ho. 01:18.073 --> 01:41.210 [SPEAKER_02]: you know emperors march the death march something like that and bring this in yeah very cool let's let's make it happen but you know what I love that song it's a it's a good song like a good stuff just sit in that cup of coffee reading my newspaper yeah and you do your listener are reading that newspaper Eric yeah 01:47.162 --> 02:15.473 [SPEAKER_03]: I actually do have something positive, at least very positive in my mind to start us off with just this week a couple days ago the Alabama man who was facing the death penalty by nitrogen gas was spared there's the US Supreme Court refused to set aside a lower court ruling that found that the method 02:16.644 --> 02:23.067 [SPEAKER_03]: is unconstitutionally cruel issuing a brief order that came well after the hour originally planned to initiate. 02:25.467 --> 02:27.008 [SPEAKER_03]: Jeffrey Lee's execution. 02:29.589 --> 02:31.670 [SPEAKER_02]: So he gets a stay execution. 02:31.690 --> 02:36.092 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 02:36.152 --> 02:36.792 [SPEAKER_03]: So the justice 02:44.523 --> 02:58.732 [SPEAKER_03]: As we see here, blocking Alabama from carrying out what would have been the nation's ninth execution by nitrogen gas rejecting a last minute legal battle by the state as it sought to carry out the sentence in the evening. 02:59.353 --> 03:07.938 [SPEAKER_03]: A spokesperson for the Alabama Department of Corrections said the execution was off for the evening and the state would not try another method. 03:08.999 --> 03:09.559 [SPEAKER_03]: Obviously, when 03:11.622 --> 03:25.709 [SPEAKER_03]: when we're getting set up for an execution, they set up for one mode and they don't have the other modes ready to go, but it would take a lot of work to switch immediately. 03:25.729 --> 03:30.111 [SPEAKER_03]: You can't just say, oh, well, we've been rejected to use nitrogen gas. 03:30.791 --> 03:34.873 [SPEAKER_03]: So let's move on over here and say, use the electric chair. 03:35.033 --> 03:38.955 [SPEAKER_03]: But I would choose Apple Pie Oliveode. 03:41.153 --> 03:42.173 [SPEAKER_03]: that would be my mode. 03:44.274 --> 03:45.074 [SPEAKER_03]: That would be your mode. 03:46.935 --> 03:47.535 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a good mode. 03:49.295 --> 03:49.935 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a good mode. 03:50.556 --> 03:51.916 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 03:52.036 --> 03:52.776 [SPEAKER_03]: I caught voted. 03:53.376 --> 03:56.337 [SPEAKER_03]: Six to three and did not explain it to reasoning. 03:56.437 --> 04:07.300 [SPEAKER_03]: Three of the conservative justices, Clarence Thomas Samuel Lito and Neil Gorsuch said they would grant Alabama's request to lift the injunction and let the execution go forward. 04:07.965 --> 04:28.401 [SPEAKER_03]: and a statement, the legal team for Lee in 49 hailed the decision and noted that his jury had voted for a sentence of life, which a judge overruled his jury voted for life to court's rule, the method, uh, unconstitutional today, the constitution prevailed. 04:28.481 --> 04:33.705 [SPEAKER_03]: The statement said, now Governor Ivy can finish what the jury started restore the jury's 04:37.317 --> 04:38.879 [SPEAKER_03]: verdict of a life without parole. 04:39.519 --> 04:42.262 [SPEAKER_03]: So that was the original sentencing. 04:43.564 --> 04:45.706 [SPEAKER_03]: But some judges overruled it. 04:45.886 --> 04:54.114 [SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, you know, we look at the methods that have been used recently because of. 04:55.120 --> 05:20.977 [SPEAKER_03]: the changes to the chemicals that are involved in the old leafland injection where it was the triple cocktail and that the final drug in that triple cocktail that is only developed in Italy and they will not sell to the United States because they know what we're gonna use it for and the EU has a permanent 05:21.697 --> 05:25.998 [SPEAKER_03]: anti-execution stance and so you cannot support it in any way if you remember of the EU. 05:27.098 --> 05:51.023 [SPEAKER_03]: We've run out of that triple cocktail so states are trying are working very hard to come up with ways to execute people and so nitrogen gas has been used as an alternative and as we've talked about here in the podcast before part of the reason we switch from one method of execution to the 05:51.863 --> 06:10.046 [SPEAKER_03]: Next is the spectacle that it creates and it appears that from witnesses that have seen That have that have been in attendance of Nitrogen gas executions that creates quite the speckle and it's not Just something worthy individual 06:10.887 --> 06:13.148 [SPEAKER_03]: simply looks like they're falling asleep. 06:13.308 --> 06:20.190 [SPEAKER_03]: There's convulsions and, um, you know, some, some spittle coming out of the mouth. 06:21.050 --> 06:29.053 [SPEAKER_02]: Spittle, you know what we're missing in society, like a quality stall or like a vamp where, where, like, 06:29.647 --> 06:36.853 [SPEAKER_02]: the state realizes that they can't execute somebody, but then they don't, everything's too transparent. 06:36.913 --> 06:41.696 [SPEAKER_02]: And instead, I wish they would stall and be like, well, you know, we're gonna have a piety contest. 06:41.777 --> 06:49.342 [SPEAKER_02]: And whoever loses the piety contest, that one has to die, but the winner, they get to, they get a stay of execution for longer. 06:50.323 --> 06:54.887 [SPEAKER_02]: And we've training some quality, like eating champions on death row. 06:57.083 --> 06:57.824 [SPEAKER_02]: as long as they can say. 06:57.844 --> 06:58.224 [SPEAKER_02]: There you go. 06:58.384 --> 07:00.705 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like they have all the time in the world. 07:01.185 --> 07:10.251 [SPEAKER_03]: We could, we might have the next Joey chest that locked up, we might don't, especially if we got the California, I mean they have that massive death row. 07:10.311 --> 07:11.932 [SPEAKER_03]: Nobody's being executed out there. 07:12.012 --> 07:14.393 [SPEAKER_03]: So, we have a lot of people with a lot of time. 07:15.173 --> 07:16.574 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure some of you. 07:16.674 --> 07:17.835 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure some of you. 07:18.816 --> 07:20.977 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, don't you think like they would get extra food for it? 07:21.017 --> 07:22.818 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure that there would be people who are into this. 07:24.238 --> 07:25.959 [SPEAKER_03]: And you know somebody would sponsor it. 07:25.999 --> 07:29.401 [SPEAKER_03]: If Nathan's could get their name on something, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah. 07:31.142 --> 07:32.503 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 07:32.543 --> 07:33.223 [SPEAKER_03]: Hey, per music. 07:33.243 --> 07:35.505 [SPEAKER_02]: Say it in a quiet and sponsored by Nathan. 07:35.525 --> 07:39.507 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I think that there's, there's something to this. 07:40.008 --> 07:46.772 [SPEAKER_02]: We could, we could be training, like, cells, and the, their time out of their cells are not like conducive to athletics. 07:47.232 --> 07:48.733 [SPEAKER_02]: But eating, eating. 07:49.908 --> 08:05.140 [SPEAKER_02]: make it do that or like like doing crossword puzzles or something to sedoku champion right let's take some of the human talent we have and at least give them something to do the exercises their mind while they're in there 08:07.068 --> 08:11.491 [SPEAKER_02]: because do you make somebody better at Sudoku or eating does not mean that they're at higher risk of violence or escape. 08:11.511 --> 08:19.258 [SPEAKER_02]: They just have more of the lack of time and you could like it would make people want to go to that prison war. 08:20.479 --> 08:25.823 [SPEAKER_02]: Like if I'm if I'm convicted of a crime, I'd be like, I'll send me to San Quentin like I want to be among the champions. 08:27.127 --> 08:28.427 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think there's something to this. 08:29.348 --> 08:30.908 [SPEAKER_02]: It makes it look like athletics. 08:31.248 --> 08:32.329 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 08:32.849 --> 08:34.369 [SPEAKER_03]: I want like sponsored cell blocks. 08:34.449 --> 08:35.710 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like a privatization. 08:36.410 --> 08:37.790 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be this out of control. 08:38.391 --> 08:42.532 [SPEAKER_02]: Like let's just rip off the mask entirely. 08:42.752 --> 08:45.453 [SPEAKER_02]: And make it cell block. 08:46.293 --> 08:48.314 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and will the other thing is that, you know, 08:50.177 --> 08:58.643 [SPEAKER_03]: We got people who need to help prep the food, so we could have, forget sponsorship from, like, shoe companies or anything like that. 08:58.683 --> 09:01.025 [SPEAKER_03]: Although they would probably want to get it on a tour, right? 09:01.125 --> 09:05.548 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, Nike, Adidas, Reebok, definitely Hocus, right? 09:05.589 --> 09:10.692 [SPEAKER_03]: They're going to want to get in there to help sponsor these people and their feet as they put on all the weight for me and all of that dogs. 09:11.473 --> 09:11.753 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 09:12.013 --> 09:13.634 [SPEAKER_03]: But they can have a different combination. 09:13.654 --> 09:14.055 [SPEAKER_02]: You can handle. 09:16.318 --> 09:42.616 [SPEAKER_02]: I've very sand thoughts, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah 09:50.864 --> 09:58.367 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, so real quick nitrogen executions were introduced in the state of Alabama about two years ago. 09:58.607 --> 10:03.189 [SPEAKER_03]: So they started using nitrogen in 2024. 10:03.229 --> 10:12.853 [SPEAKER_03]: The method involves strapping a respirator to the person's face and replacing a breathable air with pure nitrogen gas causing death from the last lack of oxygen. 10:13.720 --> 10:25.285 [SPEAKER_03]: Nitrogen has been used in eight executions in the United States seven times in Alabama and once in Louisiana Lee E was scheduled to be the ninth during the previous Alabama nitrogen executions. 10:25.806 --> 10:30.108 [SPEAKER_03]: The inmate shook pulled at the restraint and exhibited labor breathing. 10:30.828 --> 10:47.051 [SPEAKER_03]: During the state's last execution by nitrogen gas, 30 minutes elapsed between Anthony Boyd exhibiting signs of being impacted by the gas and state officials closing the curtain to the viewing room to signal the execution was complete. 10:47.891 --> 10:55.052 [SPEAKER_03]: The state is maintained that the method is constitutional and causes no more suffering than other execution methods. 11:01.027 --> 11:07.475 [SPEAKER_03]: this, this last, you know, obviously is going to take a court case to get it changed. 11:08.336 --> 11:16.726 [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't we give, you know, I don't believe in, you know, the, the death sentence at all, but, 11:17.767 --> 11:21.948 [SPEAKER_01]: Why don't we give these people like a choice between how they're executed? 11:21.968 --> 11:23.009 [SPEAKER_01]: I know Utah does. 11:23.169 --> 11:30.551 [SPEAKER_01]: They have like five different methods and you can still choose like hanging or the firing squad they're I believe, which is pretty wild. 11:30.691 --> 11:37.634 [SPEAKER_01]: But like, you know, if we're going to poison someone, why don't we give them a choice of what they're poisoned by? 11:38.434 --> 11:43.156 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure there's several people who'd be like, yeah, give me a heroin overdose or something. 11:43.296 --> 11:48.418 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that'd probably be a lot more comfortable than most other execution methods used. 11:49.579 --> 11:52.780 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, some some states do, excuse me. 11:52.800 --> 11:58.962 [SPEAKER_03]: And some of it has to do with the timing of when they were executed 12:07.477 --> 12:14.942 [SPEAKER_03]: you know, you can choose between electrocution or firing squad or, you know, lethal injection. 12:16.847 --> 12:24.312 [SPEAKER_03]: But that was if you were convicted when those were the methods that were being employed by the state. 12:24.392 --> 12:35.920 [SPEAKER_03]: So let's say if, you know, if we take Utah and they approve the lethal injection in 2000, let's just throw that out there as a random year. 12:36.861 --> 12:44.066 [SPEAKER_03]: And before that, they use electrocution and firing squad, you could choose between those versus the lethal injection. 12:46.087 --> 13:00.803 [SPEAKER_03]: But there are some states that have, you know, where they ruled for a while that certain methods were unconstitutional and then they brought it back, you can choose there. 13:04.576 --> 13:13.002 [SPEAKER_03]: You can, and I think in South Carolina, since they just started using firing squad, you can choose between lethal injection and the firing squad. 13:13.402 --> 13:17.325 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, realistically, they're all unconstitutional. 13:17.385 --> 13:19.166 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, that's not how it's interpreted. 13:19.246 --> 13:19.926 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it is. 13:20.186 --> 13:20.907 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 13:20.967 --> 13:24.529 [SPEAKER_01]: How is, how is death not cruel and or unusual? 13:25.510 --> 13:25.870 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 13:26.311 --> 13:28.212 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it matters more for like, 13:28.632 --> 13:33.834 [SPEAKER_02]: how it makes the audience feel in terms of unpleasantness is with their so often looking at. 13:34.014 --> 13:40.135 [SPEAKER_02]: And what if we could avoid all this just by letting them pick the actual method? 13:40.155 --> 13:44.617 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, if I say, I want to be eaten by wild dogs, that's so cool. 13:45.237 --> 13:45.957 [SPEAKER_02]: They could just do that. 13:46.017 --> 13:48.578 [SPEAKER_02]: Or if you're like, I want to be beaten to death for the hammer. 13:48.838 --> 13:50.939 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, okay, it's your choice. 13:56.365 --> 13:59.488 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, a meat tenderizer, if you will. 14:00.288 --> 14:03.611 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, lots of people would be choosing that one if they had the option. 14:03.631 --> 14:05.072 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 14:05.393 --> 14:06.434 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, let's be creative. 14:06.454 --> 14:08.515 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like cutting half of the chainsaw. 14:10.397 --> 14:13.379 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like a magic trick, but like they don't put you back together. 14:13.399 --> 14:17.203 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I want to be cutting half of the chainsaw by a magician. 14:17.303 --> 14:17.963 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, see. 14:25.644 --> 14:28.445 [SPEAKER_02]: Wouldn't that be the best like like a magic show on death row? 14:30.465 --> 14:37.607 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you're writing the best prison escape movie of all time Death row magic show the escape. 14:38.027 --> 14:39.528 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it even sounds good. 14:40.048 --> 14:46.670 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it does Yeah, it does So that's my news 14:48.093 --> 15:02.961 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, let me hit your good news with a bit of the bad, this one is reported by Daja Henry and Grant McLaughlin, coming from a slick collaboration between the Marshall Project, Mississippi today, and the Clarion Ledger. 15:04.273 --> 15:11.136 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, there's a serious problem going on with suicides, happening in solitary confinement in Mississippi, for instance. 15:12.376 --> 15:19.259 [SPEAKER_02]: Mississippi has had at least 47 people die by suicide while being held in restrictive housing units between 2015 and 2025. 15:19.319 --> 15:20.099 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a lot of people. 15:23.332 --> 15:25.116 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a lot of business. 15:25.136 --> 15:27.260 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a suspect amount of people. 15:27.761 --> 15:31.047 [SPEAKER_02]: It is almost five people per year just in Mississippi. 15:31.328 --> 15:34.093 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's special. 15:34.273 --> 15:35.255 [SPEAKER_03]: That doesn't sound right. 15:36.383 --> 15:59.212 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, especially it's it's high when you think about that's a high number anywhere, but put especially in solitude and not have a large population, especially in solitary confinement where like how are people like maybe with a bedsheet or something, there's like not many methods, you know, because you're not allowed anything in solitary confinement, like the, you know, 16:01.533 --> 16:05.714 [SPEAKER_01]: That's, you know, it's hard to get a ship in there to like open your veins or anything. 16:05.834 --> 16:07.915 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's crazy. 16:08.495 --> 16:08.755 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 16:08.775 --> 16:09.396 [SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, continue. 16:10.356 --> 16:10.636 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 16:10.736 --> 16:19.679 [SPEAKER_02]: So the reporting team, they reviewed prison housing history, disciplinary records, death that its death incident reports, police records, lawsuits, autopsies. 16:20.179 --> 16:29.422 [SPEAKER_02]: And they found that the Mississippi, DOC continues to use solitary confinement for people with mental illness, despite having several lawsuits brought against the agency. 16:31.016 --> 16:47.659 [SPEAKER_02]: And solid air confinement is such a tricky line to walk where there's some people where it's like, we had this guy by our insure, held in our jail, I was there and by our insure had killed a prison officer at a local prison, he strangled her on their chapel with an amplifier court. 16:48.300 --> 16:55.082 [SPEAKER_02]: And like, I am not for solitary confinement, but we run into a problem with like, what do we do with him? 16:55.222 --> 16:58.063 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, he can't be around other inmates because he's a danger to them. 16:58.103 --> 16:59.764 [SPEAKER_02]: He can't be around corrections officers. 16:59.824 --> 17:00.744 [SPEAKER_02]: He's a danger to them. 17:01.104 --> 17:02.444 [SPEAKER_02]: So like, what do we do with him? 17:03.465 --> 17:10.547 [SPEAKER_02]: And there are sometimes exceptions to policy, where you're just like, what do you do with a guy like that? 17:11.347 --> 17:13.808 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and I think that's one of the things that's 17:15.119 --> 17:31.207 [SPEAKER_03]: that's unrealized by the general public that a major part of the job of the staff working inside a correctional institution is two mains, not only maintained its security of the institution, but the safety of all of those inside the institution, which is the staff and the other inmates. 17:31.267 --> 17:38.530 [SPEAKER_03]: And so when you have these odd situations with individuals who are, you know, 17:40.375 --> 17:42.839 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, randomly violent, right? 17:42.999 --> 17:47.366 [SPEAKER_03]: When you just don't know what they're going to do and they're consistently randomly violent, right? 17:47.566 --> 17:48.507 [SPEAKER_03]: You know, what do you do with them? 17:48.568 --> 17:51.292 [SPEAKER_03]: That it's an unbelievably difficult situation. 17:52.817 --> 17:53.998 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, exactly. 17:54.038 --> 17:59.500 [SPEAKER_02]: So it puts the agency in a pickle per the Mississippi D.O.C. 17:59.540 --> 18:12.167 [SPEAKER_02]: policy, special housing should only be used when someone poses a risk or a threat to themselves, or others, or facility security or property, or has committed a major rule violation like violence, gang activity, or possession of contraband. 18:13.653 --> 18:23.039 [SPEAKER_02]: And the article discusses this idea that nationwide half of the prison and jail suicides that we see occur in solitary confinement. 18:23.439 --> 18:29.022 [SPEAKER_02]: So we know that people are especially at risk for committing suicide or self-harm in solitary. 18:29.903 --> 18:36.707 [SPEAKER_02]: And this is backed up by a 2024 study by the Rita in colleagues where they found that, yeah, solitary confinement, no shit. 18:36.847 --> 18:41.449 [SPEAKER_02]: It increases the likelihood of suicidal ideations even more than gen pop incarceration. 18:42.470 --> 18:52.161 [SPEAKER_02]: So, if you're in prison, you probably have your suicidal, you'd likely go to suicidal ideations already going up, and then you get into solitary. 18:52.242 --> 18:53.703 [SPEAKER_02]: That's just going to amp it up even more. 18:54.805 --> 19:00.812 [SPEAKER_02]: And a 2021 study published in the Lancet shows that occupying a single cell without social visits, 19:02.173 --> 19:12.458 [SPEAKER_02]: That provides the risk factor for suicide and putting people in these single cells with that visitors is linked to self harm, chronic stress, anxiety, insomnia and having difficulties with memory and concentration. 19:13.018 --> 19:23.403 [SPEAKER_02]: So we know that it can exacerbate mental illness, we know that it can amplifies what you're already feeling and if you're not feeling great about your life, it's going to make life that much harder for you. 19:26.744 --> 19:32.833 [SPEAKER_02]: So, we know solitary confinement is harmful to people with mental illness, and sometimes we find those crossroads where we don't know what to do with them. 19:33.514 --> 19:39.664 [SPEAKER_02]: But as far as problems with solitary confinement, it is happening all across the south. 19:39.764 --> 19:41.847 [SPEAKER_02]: In 2022, there's a class action lawsuit. 19:42.788 --> 19:50.975 [SPEAKER_02]: that shut down Georgia State Prison, Georgia State Prison at the time of this specialized prison, where they would funnel people serious mental illness there. 19:51.795 --> 19:57.420 [SPEAKER_02]: And we would see that the prison accounted for half of all suicides in the Georgia prison system. 19:58.461 --> 20:01.083 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so what's wrong with this picture? 20:01.183 --> 20:02.444 [SPEAKER_02]: Something is going on here. 20:02.924 --> 20:07.688 [SPEAKER_02]: This facility, something needs to change if it is this hotspot for 20:09.573 --> 20:10.353 [SPEAKER_02]: in the state. 20:10.753 --> 20:12.694 [SPEAKER_02]: We need to change our practices. 20:14.154 --> 20:15.694 [SPEAKER_02]: We need to be self-critical. 20:16.114 --> 20:21.396 [SPEAKER_02]: And that way, you can actually see people's lives, which would be of the foremost priority. 20:23.816 --> 20:29.577 [SPEAKER_02]: And in 2017, we saw mental health care was horribly inadequate and in violation of the eighth amendment. 20:30.838 --> 20:36.599 [SPEAKER_02]: At the time, the prisons suicide rate was like four times higher than the 20:39.412 --> 20:43.594 [SPEAKER_02]: And states across our country know that this is a problem. 20:43.874 --> 20:46.635 [SPEAKER_02]: They know that solitary confinement is problematic in its own ways. 20:47.155 --> 20:52.858 [SPEAKER_02]: And so we've seen since 2009, there's been 40 states that enacted legislation to limit solitary confinement. 20:53.938 --> 21:07.124 [SPEAKER_02]: And the only legislation that Mississippi passed was they're like, hey, maybe we shouldn't put pregnant people in solitary confinement unless there's a reasonable belief they're going to harm themselves or the fetus or provide a flight risk. 21:08.781 --> 21:09.081 [SPEAKER_01]: you know. 21:12.802 --> 21:28.066 [SPEAKER_02]: And as far as like how they do it, a review of disciplinary reports shows that incarcerated people, if they're going to commit self-harm or attempt suicide, it's typically with razors, with glass, sharpened objects, swallowed batteries, or hanging themselves with clothing or bedsheets. 21:28.286 --> 21:32.647 [SPEAKER_02]: Imagine trying to kill yourself by swallowing a battery, that's the worst way to go. 21:32.667 --> 21:32.867 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 21:33.867 --> 21:35.848 [SPEAKER_03]: And you're going to wonder how many in what size? 21:36.048 --> 21:36.268 [SPEAKER_03]: I mean, 21:38.544 --> 21:44.669 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, a few AA's do it, or are you going to go up to like the nine volt? 21:44.829 --> 21:45.549 [SPEAKER_02]: I have no idea. 21:45.730 --> 21:46.070 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 21:46.450 --> 21:46.730 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 21:47.091 --> 21:50.013 [SPEAKER_02]: I imagine if you can swallow a few nine volt, that'll do it. 21:50.886 --> 22:17.726 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the problem is with those double or triple A, as you can find these those things like cheetahs and then you just got a battery belly full of battery Yeah, those things like cheetahs, cheetahs, cheetahs, cheetahs, cheetahs coming out with a new product Extra flaming hot cheetahs They're shockingly good Yeah, it gives me acid reflux even thinking about it and battery acid reflux Yeah, I mean that's 22:22.059 --> 22:29.824 [SPEAKER_03]: That's just, you just figure your body is going to find a way, I mean, would start, you know, trying to reject that right away. 22:31.245 --> 22:32.666 [SPEAKER_03]: Man, that's, that's not. 22:34.567 --> 22:36.188 [SPEAKER_03]: That sounds like a violent way to go. 22:37.529 --> 22:38.370 [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely violent. 22:40.695 --> 22:46.739 [SPEAKER_02]: On the part of Mississippi, when people engage in self-harm, they have to pay for the medical expenses, a form of restitution. 22:47.180 --> 22:53.664 [SPEAKER_02]: They often lose privileges, so they lose access to the canteen or the telephone privileges. 22:54.645 --> 23:03.331 [SPEAKER_02]: And you see that Mississippi is reacting, and I'm sure a lot of prison systems reacted in this way that's like, this doesn't address the underlying problem here. 23:05.849 --> 23:11.390 [SPEAKER_02]: like taking away telephone privileges so that they can like enjoy some level of social support. 23:12.231 --> 23:15.231 [SPEAKER_02]: Those few things that might help keep them from self-harm. 23:15.251 --> 23:21.253 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, you know what really helps people who are suicidal is extreme isolation. 23:22.693 --> 23:24.313 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that's right. 23:25.234 --> 23:25.434 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 23:27.394 --> 23:28.514 [SPEAKER_03]: And you know, a lot of those, um, 23:31.935 --> 23:38.571 [SPEAKER_03]: A lot of those units are incredibly unstable in terms of the noise. 23:39.193 --> 23:40.576 [SPEAKER_03]: It's just a constant. 23:42.243 --> 24:09.283 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know how many isolation units you've been on in terms of, you know, when you when you worked at the institution or on tours, if you every time I've been on one, they are so loud and it's just a constant, you know, the noise, the banging, the screaming that's going on, it's just not, not a good environment, where to isolate people and then it's just going to be, it's going to sound like chaos at all times. 24:10.388 --> 24:10.969 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. 24:11.089 --> 24:16.052 [SPEAKER_02]: And the ones that've been in, it's all steel and cement. 24:16.152 --> 24:21.436 [SPEAKER_02]: So every noise that you make is just the sound just pings around the whole place. 24:21.736 --> 24:22.917 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there's an echo. 24:23.077 --> 24:23.458 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a lot. 24:23.498 --> 24:23.678 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 24:24.578 --> 24:27.641 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's cavernous. 24:27.961 --> 24:37.548 [SPEAKER_02]: Mr. Sippy, though, going back to Mr. Sippy, we also see some staffing issues contributing to the deaths like we saw in Alabama prisons when Britain, I talked about the 24:40.354 --> 25:07.207 [SPEAKER_02]: the central Mississippi prison in 2024 they underwent an audit that showed the prison was working with less than half of the staff needed and in 2022 another Mississippi facility called parchment found that some officers were falsifying these count sheets to say that they had done security checks when they had and the article concludes that when somebody is in special housing they need to be checked in on more often as the CEO part of your job is to walk the tier 25:08.087 --> 25:09.468 [SPEAKER_02]: and make sure that everybody's okay. 25:09.589 --> 25:14.433 [SPEAKER_02]: Typically on a regular gen pop unit, I would do it once an hour is what we were mandated to do. 25:14.833 --> 25:17.456 [SPEAKER_02]: You walk around, you make sure everything's going okay. 25:17.476 --> 25:19.678 [SPEAKER_02]: People have questions that can they can talk to you then. 25:20.739 --> 25:28.406 [SPEAKER_02]: And when you're working in a max unit, typically it's done every 30 minutes, but it can be like twice an hour with 40 minutes max. 25:28.967 --> 25:31.950 [SPEAKER_02]: And in some cases, these people who were found dead in their cells, 25:32.550 --> 25:38.675 [SPEAKER_02]: rigor mortis had said in by the time that anybody found them and their bodies showing that they had been dead for hours. 25:38.955 --> 25:45.740 [SPEAKER_02]: So the bottom line is like, they need to have some way to enforce accountability. 25:46.541 --> 25:51.705 [SPEAKER_02]: We need to have officers more vigilant on check-ins because this can be actually a matter between life and death. 25:52.506 --> 25:56.589 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're running a prison, it is to your benefit to have people 26:02.612 --> 26:12.557 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, and, you know, as you're talking about this, it reminds me, you know, the year after I worked the prison in Kentucky, I also, I worked at a mental health facility. 26:13.317 --> 26:29.306 [SPEAKER_03]: And obviously, was in, you know, when we had somebody that was on suicide watching, you were, there was a staff member parked outside their door. 26:30.657 --> 26:49.543 [SPEAKER_03]: 24 hours a day because, you know, and I guess this is the difference between a private institution in a public one, where the mental health facility, you know, we had people that were there for, you know, obviously mental health issues, but also drug use and some were sentenced there for criminal activity. 26:50.748 --> 27:04.677 [SPEAKER_03]: If they were a threat to themselves at all, there was a chair outside their door, you know, across the hall outside the door facing in so that you could see them at 24 hours a day. 27:04.877 --> 27:14.983 [SPEAKER_03]: They did not want to deal with the possibility that somebody would harm themselves on their watch. 27:16.464 --> 27:18.045 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that's responsible. 27:20.561 --> 27:24.703 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it creates much more, many more problems for the facility. 27:24.743 --> 27:26.343 [SPEAKER_02]: It creates more problems for the officers. 27:26.383 --> 27:30.585 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, nobody should even be putting themselves in that position. 27:30.625 --> 27:33.265 [SPEAKER_02]: Just be responsible and have places adequately staff. 27:33.366 --> 27:40.628 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, it's easier said than done when you don't pay people well, or you have like, largely support set up for the officers. 27:41.668 --> 27:45.550 [SPEAKER_02]: And it becomes a place that is just experiencing constant turnover. 27:46.490 --> 27:53.354 [SPEAKER_02]: So figure out if we're going to have prisons at least figure out a way that is like conducive to keeping people alive. 27:53.634 --> 27:54.194 [SPEAKER_02]: How about that? 27:56.535 --> 27:56.875 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 27:58.056 --> 28:01.578 [SPEAKER_03]: And then when things go bad, you have to hold people accountable. 28:02.799 --> 28:05.620 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, sometimes unless they're really cool. 28:05.780 --> 28:09.142 [SPEAKER_02]: They're, you know, unless they're the hot dog eating champion. 28:13.586 --> 28:16.028 [SPEAKER_03]: That's going to be the coach of the hot meeting team. 28:16.548 --> 28:17.649 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, he's the coach. 28:17.709 --> 28:19.511 [SPEAKER_02]: He's the coach. 28:19.551 --> 28:20.872 [SPEAKER_03]: Make sure it works. 28:21.472 --> 28:23.434 [SPEAKER_03]: Works as shifts that he wants. 28:25.075 --> 28:25.996 [SPEAKER_02]: Precisely. 28:26.016 --> 28:30.320 [SPEAKER_02]: The coach gets to the slide like a really good student athlete. 28:34.056 --> 28:35.597 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's the end of that story. 28:35.737 --> 28:59.370 [SPEAKER_01]: Should we put a bow on it and thank our delicious sponsor, Roger Williams University School of Justice Studies with such amazing degree and certificate offerings in things like public administration and I'm not I'm not I'm the Eagle Studies Yeah, maybe I'm political science tasty 29:00.748 --> 29:21.252 [SPEAKER_01]: and thru-pology, two scoops, forensic science, three scoops, sociology, ice-creams on day, international relations, and of course, we've got the banana split over in criminal justice. 29:22.498 --> 29:24.619 [SPEAKER_03]: I didn't mean to release you also. 29:31.742 --> 29:42.627 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, and then of course when the door of the explorer show up, we've got the whole half gallon. 29:42.647 --> 29:50.310 [SPEAKER_01]: All right, I want to take some of that home. 29:54.764 --> 29:57.345 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, Roger Williams University School of Justice Studies. 29:57.965 --> 29:58.465 [SPEAKER_02]: We love you. 29:58.605 --> 29:59.286 [SPEAKER_02]: We support you. 29:59.626 --> 30:00.766 [SPEAKER_02]: And thank you for supporting us. 30:02.006 --> 30:08.609 [SPEAKER_02]: If you have enjoyed this news podcast, please like, please rate, please subscribe and feel free to write into the pod. 30:08.649 --> 30:13.970 [SPEAKER_02]: We're on instant grandma at prison dot breakdown. 30:14.130 --> 30:16.551 [SPEAKER_02]: That's Instagram, prison dot breakdown. 30:17.391 --> 30:18.932 [SPEAKER_02]: And you can see some cool clips from the show. 30:19.753 --> 30:20.734 [SPEAKER_02]: go ahead and find us on there. 30:20.774 --> 30:21.175 [SPEAKER_02]: Follow us. 30:22.636 --> 30:28.502 [SPEAKER_02]: And give us a five star on Apple podcast Spotify where we listen. 30:29.543 --> 30:30.064 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 30:32.987 --> 30:35.970 [SPEAKER_02]: Now, Eric, I think that it's time that we tuck in and go to bed. 30:36.751 --> 30:36.991 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 30:37.332 --> 30:37.512 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 30:37.552 --> 30:38.893 [SPEAKER_03]: I think it's time for lights out. 30:39.654 --> 30:40.755 [SPEAKER_03]: Someone hit that switch.