[SPEAKER_00]: All right, everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are in for a very special treat on this week's episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Fred joined by Dave Beltsor once again to talk about the greatest wrestler ever project that just finished up a couple weeks ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dave, how are you doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm doing really good, how are you?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, all right, it's hurting crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, between the, this was, this was quite the weak of news.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, I'm having you on a discuss not of it, but like, yeah, really, what's funny?
[SPEAKER_01]: Not really important news.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have the USC show tomorrow being allowed to go on legally.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't think that was everything, you're really.
[SPEAKER_00]: which, yeah, that's with the air we live in, um, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, um, uh, GW finished up, uh, run by the people over at a pro wrestling only, which I think is, uh, follow-up from Death Valley Driver, but a different group.
[SPEAKER_00]: The name of which I'm forgetting right now, uh, did the first one back in 2006.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an every decade project for people get together and vote on their 100 greatest wrestlers and it's all malgumated into whatever all list of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the third edition truth out which I have the 2006 and 2016 lists up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can tell you real quick, the 2016's number one was Ric Flair.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember the 2006 as well as but this year it was Terry Funk.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's definitely some interesting movement, and I think a big part of that was that there was a lot more voters like there was a Tremendous increase in voters from outside of the previous ecosystem of voters and I think it really led to some very interesting results.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, Dave, you said you haven't had a chance to look at this list, though, I mean, I did, I did know that Terry Funk was number one, but I don't really know I'm not really familiar with the list, I haven't seen the list.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well, you know, I mean, it's, it's, it's interesting, you know, because again, everything, you know, framework's a very different, I, it's, it's, to me, it's very difficult to, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's very difficult to compare errors for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really almost impossible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you were to say, like, do the list.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say, I couldn't do the list.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I really couldn't because it's like, you know, how do I compare Terry Funk to Kenny Omega?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like they were both great wrestlers.
[SPEAKER_01]: during the period that they were very wrestlers.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was completely different business in each case.
[SPEAKER_01]: Although Terry Funk did transcends several areas.
[SPEAKER_01]: And changed, I mean, the Terry Funk of the 60s and the Terry Funk in the ECW, you know, was, we're so completely different, it's not even funny, but it's like, I can't compare here as I also have a hard time
[SPEAKER_01]: going backwards.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think I can pretty fairly do anything from 70 on, 70 won on because when I started watching and I watched a lot of wrestling in the 70s.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like in the 60s, I'm going by legend and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's difficult and then there's also this situation of, I mean, I think until you get to, man, I don't even know when, 90.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the majority of the stuff that these guys did wasn't taped and you know what depends on the place you were like if you worked in the 80s if you worked for crocket they had a really high.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, the motivation, because of Ric Flair and people like that, the motivation level of the resource was so much higher to produce really good matches if you went to WWE.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the motivation was not to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was the exact opposite.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's kind of like,
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you watch only paper views, you don't know the difference, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, or you don't see the difference nearly as much.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, I went to house shows, you know, and I've seen a lot of these guys in the house shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they were terrible.
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't do anything, you know, and I've seen other guys who like, you know, matter what, when you saw them, they were always good.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were, you know, and they're kind of like great at the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if you, you know, if you're going to watch like three of their matches or even more,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you're gonna, you know, and then there's different territories and there's different rings and then there's different styles of what the fans wanted.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's so many variables to this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, that's why I, like I said, like, I used to be able, like when people said, who's the greatest restaurant of all time, I was a pretty strong man, Rick Fler at one point.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now, I mean, I mean, you know, I mean, there's two neat different things to say,
[SPEAKER_01]: great espresso, I mean, how do I compare?
[SPEAKER_01]: I could never compare Rick and Flair with Will Osprey because they're doing different, they're doing different things.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's 1,300 matches a year, what was doing 30, you know, one in those 30 was taking things to a level completely above.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's was he had two weeks off between matches.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was given, you know, he was booked in a manner
[SPEAKER_01]: where he's booked with more people to have great matches because you're putting that position like all those guys that work in New Japan and all Japan in a really strong year as, I mean, the depth of so much that of course you're gonna have all these incredible matches more than anyone else working in another place where you didn't have that level of talent.
[SPEAKER_01]: So anyway, it's just, I mean, it's just a really, really, really hard project that I really couldn't really,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I put together top 100, I think it was like fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I was one of the most informed voters by any stretch, but I think I did okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a lot to learn, I've got several blind spots.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'd like to work on before the next one.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I just always think it's really interesting to get people together to compare their viewpoints on wrestling and share what they have seen and what they think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I think is the benefit of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to let you know about wrestlers that you haven't seen before, so that you can check out their stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so I do want to specifically point out this even Graham, like a grimace did a great job of organizing this and I wanted to thank him and his team for their work on this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so I guess I'd go back a little bit, you know, we already talked about like comparing against across areas, I should say, and how difficult that is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think you would value peak versus longevity, like if someone was a short career, but had a much higher peak, do you think you'd go with someone like that over someone that's around longer, but maybe didn't quite have the highest output levels, I guess?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think longevity is important, but when you get to a point where
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, somebody's been in 40 years, maybe there's last 20 years, aren't necessarily beneficial.
[SPEAKER_01]: In that sense, you know, but, but I think, yeah, I think longevity is important.
[SPEAKER_01]: More than, you know, I mean, like a guy like Buzz Sawyer, right, who was really, really, really great, you know, really one of the best guys for a short period of time there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't, I know I wouldn't put him in my top
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mean, some guys did burn their body out, you know, and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, like with Storcyama, um, because of his importance to the business, maybe, maybe, um, in this case, the peak is more important than the longevity or dynamite, you know, where everybody kind of, you know, but that's more an influence thing, more than anything else I think, you know, like, like, like, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I mean, people do remember dynamite is one of the greatest that there ever was.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, it's really comparatively a short period compared to many others that he would be ranked against.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like him, yeah, peak performance would be way, way, way up there.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he didn't have the longevity due to the injuries.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And another thing I thought was interesting was that to be nominated, you had to be nominated to receive votes.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were people that were nominated that were not nominated, I should say.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they did receive votes, and so those did not count for points for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: You did have to be nominated, and the nomination had to link to three matches that you had.
[SPEAKER_00]: So can you think of anyone offhand that would not qualify for this list that you would be interested in considering, but there just isn't enough footage out there to even meet
[SPEAKER_00]: barrier?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, not really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, there's got to be three matches for for anyone from the 70s on somewhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I would think?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mean, I know like man, a lot of the territorial stuff that was taped.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the TV doesn't even care now.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, a lot of guys were, you know, like, like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when I was younger, I mean, it was not your TV match that mattered.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was your arena matches and those weren't there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, if you're watching TV of some guys, it's not even their, their, their, their main stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, but a lot of them were very good at, um, you know, you could watch them on TV and you can kind of get a good read on a lot of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, um, you know, I mean, there's 20 minute wrestlers and there's 25 minute wrestlers and there's four minute wrestlers, you know, and that's all different too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I will open by asking you just off the cuff and I know this is hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you think would be at least a contender for your top 10 if you were to make such a Oh, man, I don't know because I haven't I haven't like really written it down.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I could give you I mean, you know, I mean just off the top of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Osprey can kind of go bashy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Abushi, Brad Hart, Rick Flutter for sure, Terry Funk for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, once I start meaning names, we weigh over 10, but like Steamboat was always great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me see.
[SPEAKER_01]: let me think what else.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like I sort of can, you know, people always say race Stevens.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually saw a lot of race Stevens pretty high.
[SPEAKER_01]: Harley race was really good, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, there's so many, so many guys in Mexico.
[SPEAKER_01]: and trying to think of like the real, you know, Santo was really, really good, of course, Oh, he hoodo Santo, not El Santo.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's so many of those type of guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard for me, but I wouldn't necessarily put like so many of the Mexican guys top and I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even so on though, I wouldn't put top 10 for sure, but they're they're really good in in different ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and it's it's it's hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and then you go in like a few tomorrow, you know completely different style and everything, but I watch that stuff back now I just watch it tomorrow matches today.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like Jesus Christ.
[SPEAKER_01]: Chris Ben was a worker.
[SPEAKER_01]: My God.
[SPEAKER_01]: Chris Ben wanted to grow.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you know, I mean those guys were those guys were awesome I mean I even watched a Chris Ben warm action in Almost 20 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've watched I should take that back.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've watched one Chris Ben warm action in the last
[SPEAKER_01]: 19 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was, um, I was watching a New Japan paper view and they threw a Liger Benwa Maxx when he stepped in emissions on this paper views.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, I was like, well, I'm not going to walk out of the room.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to watch it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, I damn, like, he's better than I remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: If not, you know, I remember him pretty being pretty good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, you know, he's like one of those guys were, you know, if he came in now, like, I, you know, he'd been, you know, he'd been
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, even with his, you know, not so prologue of my skills, his in-ring, because, you know, in-ring is so much more important now than it used to be, man, that guy would have been in this era, like, eight, he'd have been, you know, man, he'd have been high on the cards, like a lot, and working with so much more better people.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if I could say that, but a lot of the guys then, you know, I think there's there are guys who, who would today,
[SPEAKER_01]: if they were around you know today with the skill set that they had before man they would be incredible but they were in the wrong era for their skills because you know they came during this maybe they came during the era where you had to be really big maybe they'd never great body during this era where everybody would be on steroids you know so it's like it's kind of weird you know like like you know there's so there's so much to it like like um
[SPEAKER_01]: like in the 80s, you know, late 80s, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, race demons, you know, with his height and his build and everything, it's like he wouldn't nobody even give him a second chance.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, to get through the door, you know, and he was one of the greatest of his era.
[SPEAKER_01]: And conversely, there's a lot of guys that did very, very well in the 80s that today, you know, they wouldn't do well at all, you know, because it's so much more,
[SPEAKER_01]: so much more based on performance than just talking ability or muscles.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so it's like, you know, that's why I say it's like, they're their guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: When I will look back, I'll go like, I wish I'd probably come in and match yesterday.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he would have been much better today than he was then, even though he was pretty good then.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my God, those guys were so scared righted up in that era.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like I didn't even like Brian today, it was like my God.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd go like, look at all the stuff that he's on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And back then, he was like a small guy, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: And he just said, yeah, it's so different.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the actual, the what we ended up with in the voting as a top 10 was starting with number one was Terry Faulk, of course, Brian Danielson, moved up to number two.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're all great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say anything bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I certainly wouldn't have some of those people.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if I did stand hands and talk ten of all time, but he was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ten room maybe, maybe maybe.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he was, you know, I mean, like the early years of his career wasn't that good, but from 84 on, you know, it was really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, had a style that would work today that worked in his era, you know, and he wasn't as serious of this flashy, like, I saw a lot of 10-room live, I like a lot, and I, you know, I wouldn't say top 10 I've ever seen, but he was pretty damn good, you know, you mean me, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Top 50 is, do you think, what?
[SPEAKER_00]: Top 50 is, do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, he was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was great, you know, through tenor with some of the best matches of their year, you know, I mean, I remember one bird, you know, Jim was so rooted to be really, really high.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, I know, I mean, there's so many guys, you know, like the paddle counter type guys that were just, they were just awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: the little I've seen and from talking to guys, you know, like, that, you know, the paddle conner buddy Rogers race Stevens were always the guys that wrestlers that I talk to, just, they were like the tops of their era.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've seen, I saw enough of paddle conner pastes primed, you know, he must have been absolutely awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rogers, you know, it's so different and so primitive compared to today, but obviously his drawing power speaks for itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you can tell by watching him that he was a great worker, and Steven's I saw, you know, and he was, he was great, but I went like again, I saw a lot of race Stevens live and I would not, I know that like, I would later saw a lot of Rick Flair live and I would say that like Rick Flair was was, you know, was better to me than race Stevens was, but, you know, it was also one of those things where, um, if you,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, to some people, you know, you could never say anyone was better than a race to even speak.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I think there's probably some people who do that now with people from the past to, you know, nobody could ever be better than them because you don't know how them to be better, you know, even if they are, but, you know, yeah, Pat Patterson was awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, he's like so underrated, like he was way ahead of his time and again, like I saw him, you know, I probably saw more like Pat Patterson, actually, almost anyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was always, always great, you know, I'm sure in this list like he would, you know, based on the fact that people haven't seen him, you know, except for when he was in his 40s for the most part, that he would be terribly underrated, but he's he's, like it's a live house, show guys on the best I ever saw.
[SPEAKER_00]: Patterson finished 341st.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Steven was for 31st, so.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh geez, but again, people didn't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I can't see him, I
[SPEAKER_01]: 10, even something else in the top again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of discussion of like what changed with the voting group and you know trying to look at the results to kind of determine that the big jumps in the top 10 Steve Austin went up 19 spots he was at 24 got up to five and
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's still, that's still the same, that's still all the same ballpark to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not really huge at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I wouldn't have Steve Boston that high and I saw him a ton and he's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't get me wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you're going about like if you're going if you're if you're including drawing power, that's a different story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then yeah, I do believe this is supposed to be entering.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, but even even then, even then, number one,
[SPEAKER_01]: Me and I couldn't go that high.
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't go that high.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty sure he couldn't go that high with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I mean, he was he was really really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but he was, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, he didn't stand out to me like top 10 of all time, and I like the guy, you know, and, and I mean, you're including the whole package for three year period, you know, and value to a company.
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, you know, without doubt, but just in ring, I mean, not top 10, but he was, you know, I mean, he was really, really good, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: They all, you know, I mean, any, I'm sure everyone in the top 50 in some form is really, really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The top or the top 20 I should say.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have our first woman at the number 11 with Ajay Kong, who made a huge jump to go up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Eddie Guerrero at 12, Horishitana Hashie 13, Toshiyaki Kowada 14, Vader who finished 15th without a single first place vote.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, Akira Hokato at 16, AJ Styles 17, Mick Foley 18, Javos Ruta 19, and Samoa Joe 20th.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wouldn't have Mick Foley that high.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, not Joe either.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, not top 20.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, but they're they're all really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I mean, this woman, I sorry, I ever saw live, whatever is, is, is Toyota and, and the second is Hokkaido.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but Archie Kong was awesome too, you know, I mean, she was, um, for her time Jaguar Dakota was, uh, you know, I mean, for, for her time and everything,
[SPEAKER_01]: She was the best, and I think the most important thing with hers is that she jumped a style so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you look at the women in the 70s before her, I mean, nobody was in any anywhere close.
[SPEAKER_01]: She comes along, and she's better than men, you know, and nobody wasn't until she came along.
[SPEAKER_01]: She came along.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember the first watch in her, and it was just like,
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was like, you know, in the early 80s when I watched her, it was like, okay, I got stopped watching her because this makes my sense, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, she's like just too good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't, I couldn't fathom watching someone that good.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, a couple of years later it was kind of like I really started studying her and that's when she was on her way out, but you know, she was, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, but I mean, would I say that she was better than if you're a hokododer best, maybe no.
[SPEAKER_01]: She grew some a guy, you know, you know, with a lot of limits, it's a short term, whereas Naomi Toyota, you know, just based on the fact that the women wrestlers were allowed to work longer, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and I hope it'll hit our injuries.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, I think if you're going to longevity, it's really hard for me to pick anyone but man, I need to write orders in top one and rest our good machine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just round out of the top 25 because I don't think I've finished that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Randy Savage 21, L. H. Hill, Del Santo, 22, CM Punk 23, Ricky Steve Bow 24, and Juicy and Liar 25.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wouldn't have punk that high for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just,
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even know, I don't even know how you, you know, I mean, he's very, very smart at how he wrestles, um, but, I mean, you know, I mean, the, the, the athletic side, you know, it's like there's so, there's so many, there's so many guys that were very, very smart, um, and again, when we're talking in ring, you know, I mean, like normal walls, I mean, he, he, he's an awesome problem, you know, one of the best problems.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the ring, I mean, very good,
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I, I would say, I'll say that he, I feel that feels way high to me though.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when I think of, you know, when I've seen him and everything compared to, you know, so many of the guys that you're talking about on the list, there's, there's, there's so much better.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a 40 if on my list.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the what I'd say about him is he maximized what he could do in the ring as well as anyone.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would I would agree with that, but I mean as always guys like I mean I've seen you know there's a lot like like it's hard for me to pick like anyone top 10 Mexico.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's like a whole slew of people that when I think about having seen them.
[SPEAKER_01]: that would be to me would be way higher than someone like punk or Japanese guys, you know, an American's too, you know, I mean there's, I mean, yeah, that's, you know, I mean, I could just name so many of the people that I saw even even in the 70s where I think that we're like,
[SPEAKER_01]: the stand, there were a lot of a lot of wrestlers then, but when I think of the standouts that, you know, and everything like that, they were, a lot of them were were.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, going to be above home.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even like you're 70s Don Morocco or Billy Robinson type of guys, you know, that, you know, they just, just because of, just because of their superior athletic ability, you know, they're going to be way above that, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they maximized their stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Don didn't care as much as some people, but, you know, he was, he was incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what I'd like to do is go ahead and get started with making a list from your takes and we'll see how far we can get with the time we have.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, just I have what I want to do is just introduce a person to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you talk about them briefly and then we'll eventually get to the point where we have you compare them and just pick one just it's not a life or death decision just have you do an off the cup decision and we'll see how far we get.
[SPEAKER_00]: That sounds good to you.
[UNKNOWN]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to start, I have a list of four that I'm going to start with here.
[SPEAKER_00]: The finish, I think, a little lower in the list than not really close at the top 25, but a Jack Brisco.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's, again, that's an era situation for his era.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he was, to me, like, he was like the very near
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he was, it's like, I mean, the closest equivalent I could think of Jack Briscoe's Steamboat.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I actually think that I would, you know, and maybe it's just because Steamboat came later, I think that he was a little bit more dynamic, but Briscoe had more, Briscoe had more of an aura about him like when you watched Briscoe,
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he gave off the vibes of, okay, nobody could beat him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's too good of a wrestler, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and that was important in his era.
[SPEAKER_01]: That wouldn't be as important today, but he, he was, you know, like I said, like for his era, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: He was, I mean, I watched him and, I mean, he was one of those guys that you were kind of in awe of, you know, like rather than just a wrestler, you know, just, you know, just so technically great and well conditioned and was always in the right place and, you know, just the whole.
[SPEAKER_01]: ability to have matches with Dory Junior, you know, for that era, for that style, they were so different from everybody else, and that's why they were the legendary matches of their time and they drew over and over and over for years and years and years and years and years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And people that from that era will go and say they were the best matches that they ever saw, you know, from that era.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, he, yeah, I'd have him pretty, pretty high, not top 10 though, but I haven't pretty high.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Funny you brought him up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually had Dory Funk Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was my next person to bring up to you Dory Funk Jr.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like There's two Dory Funk Jr.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's okay, so the Dory Funk Jr.
[SPEAKER_01]: When he was broke champion to me was
[SPEAKER_01]: a really great world champion because of his versatility, versatility to carry people, to make himself not look bad while making the other person who looked like they could beat the champion.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he was a kind of like a flare.
[SPEAKER_01]: He did not have the color at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: A flare, he did not have the promotality at all a flare yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was a perfect world champion for his time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, like if I were to look back and watch him today, my gut is I wouldn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe I would appreciate it because I didn't let that era, but I also have known people going like, I don't get it, I don't get it, and it's like, well, because you weren't around, how would you get it, you know, but I was around, and then there's the era later in Japan, and the key to that was that because he went to Japan and had those matches, the matches,
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was the first NWA champion to defend the title there since, um, says, you know, although Kenishki went, um, when he was champion, um, but he didn't, you know, when when Kenishki went, he was challenging Baba for Baba's title.
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't go isn't to, to defend the NWA title.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dory went and defended the NWA title.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the NAWA title was the big thing, so that because of being there in that era and being that guy, and then always being booked as this great, great wrestler, you know, when they, you know, the late 70s, the funk brothers and everything like that, I mean, Dory was tremendous in that period, but Terry kind of stood out because it was more charismatic and different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Dory was a way that a world champion in Terry was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, I mean, for the era, and I think almost anyone would agree with that Terry Terry was, um, you know, Dorie was very, very serious.
[SPEAKER_01]: He made the matches look, you know, more like a sporting contest Terry was more of a performer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, wilder.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, the matches didn't have the credibility, but it's an entertainer.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was really good, but a lot of the people thought that like that shouldn't be the World Championship match in the 70s, it wasn't what race did, it wasn't what Junior did, it wasn't what Briscoe did, Terry was different, and some people would find that good, but I mean, as a, you know, as a worker in certain ways, you know, Terry was in some ways the best wrestler that they ever, I mean, I think that when it comes to, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: Versatility and reading the crowd coming in, him and Stevens, which guys that, like from the moment they leave the dressing room until the moment they go back to the dressing room, they just, um, they just turned the on switch on.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: It was different from other people, and Terry also could go in,
[SPEAKER_01]: to a building that people didn't know him and get superheat in 30 seconds and not a lot of guys could do that if you didn't know him and I've seen it in cities where he wasn't famous and he walked in and she was like that, she could do that too, but even though she most places people knew the name, but she was only good for three minutes, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas Terry could do that and then go, you know, 20 minutes or longer if need be, you know, so
[SPEAKER_01]: For his time, Doria was, you know, are you a police that best in the world?
[SPEAKER_01]: But I don't know that it would look that way today, and probably wouldn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people really benefit from footage from the passage of time and some people less so I think is that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But style change, I mean, there's, you know, in the early 70s, the top guys, the top baby faces were those, you know, just white meat baby face by the late 70s, you know, one statistic came in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bruno and the bruiser and all these guys, you know, you wanted the people wanted the brawlers and the brawlers, you know, they didn't really want to scientific wrestlers as they were called in that era.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in the early 70s that's what that's what they wanted and that's what drew.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so those guys were the top guys, plus I would say after 75, a lot of the promoters
[SPEAKER_01]: The idea of wrestling coming across as a sport and they were more about, we don't care if it doesn't look real, or it doesn't look like it's wrestling or doesn't like sort of fit into what real wrestling would look like we're just out for entertainment.
[SPEAKER_01]: because there's the charming accepted it's entertainment and in the 80s, obviously, when even further, and now it's just 100% entertainment and really has been since the 80s, but in the early 70s, there was a lot of, you know, it had to, I mean, it was entertainment, but it had to look more, it couldn't be far-fetched of the predominant.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then after I did the reality,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, more grounded in reality a little bit, yeah, yeah, you know, like kind of like I guess closer to Japan, you know, because Japan I think I think I think Japan kept that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, wanting to look to look sort of like real, you know, like plausible, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: They kept that longer, you know, United States, it was long gone in Japan.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I guess maybe because of an Okinawaba, it's like they still clung to that because they were stars from the 60s so they still reverted back to 60s and 70s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whereas like, you know, the people who came later, they didn't revert back that many decades.
[SPEAKER_00]: Next day on my list was a Linus Asuka.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, she was awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I Never seen her before.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like how did she work?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, She did some martial arts stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: She did some pro wrestling stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: She had in, you know, just always Incredible incredible incredible incredible crowd heat when she was younger with the crushed gals.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Oscar was more, I mean, she would have been the one that based on the Jaguar, your coat of thing, would have been the world, the better world champion, even though the, you know, you know, where is Jiguso was more of the idol type, but I mean, as a team or a singer was or whatever, they were, they were great, they were great, hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shoot, say, all worked so hard and they worked that hard schedule, but again, it was like the mentality was just like, you're going to have your three years, your four years, you know, not even five years.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're going to be your three or four years and they worked in a death, you know, and your bodies took the toll and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They worked in much higher pace, every night, you know, and, you know, got great, great, great crowd heat.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the last of the first four names I want to bring up was a bruiser Brody.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think is probably the most familiar with most people at this point still.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, bruiser Brody was also a great product of zero.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he was very, very smart.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that, I mean, it's weird because like a guy like bruiser Brody today, you know, back then, if you were drawn, you know, you could, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: If you were a draw, and Brody was more of a draw than Stan Hanson, you know, especially in the United States.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you were a guy who can increase box office, you had a lot of leverage, that's you wrote down a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: People like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you had a lot of leverage, so he took advantage of the leverage and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Today, when it's so much company-oriented, it'd be tougher.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and he would have to have adapted.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, work wise, he was, he was great for his era, whether it be, you know, well, look today.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I know like with, um, with Terry Funk, I mean, like the guys, like, like he would have Brody, like, you know, I don't know, top five six.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, with, with Terry, because we have talked about that a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the guys that he, he would be the highest on, you know, race Stevens, Johnny Valentine, Jack
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to think who else, but those guy, there's others, David Finley, he was very, very high in David Finley, but those were kind of like the guys for him.
[SPEAKER_01]: that Ricky steamboat, he was very high on Rick Flair, doing degree.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Rick Flair, he, he, you know, except he didn't always get along with Rick Flair and everything, but he pretty much agreed, Rick Flair was really super.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I remember one time like there was something, and I think I don't know if he just discovered the internet or something or whatever, and he saw like,
[SPEAKER_01]: negativity on Brody.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember him saying to me, he goes like, well, that's the test.
[SPEAKER_01]: He goes, what do you mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, if you don't get Brody, then you don't get wrestling.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you do get Brody, you know, like that, you know, and it's like because, you know, I mean, because I even used to complain he doesn't sell enough and he just goes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who do you think wants him not to sell his merch, you know, I mean, that's the whole idea of Brody.
[SPEAKER_01]: He thought the world of Brody as a performer, as an opponent, you know, one of his best ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was also very high in law, which a lot of people of the year were not, but he was, you know, I mean, because he didn't have the negative stigma of Memphis that, that, that,
[SPEAKER_01]: that didn't, you know, if you read the books or anything from Russell from the 70s and 80s, you know, the Memphis was at a very negative connotation.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Funk did not have, Funk I think it was very open-minded in the sense of, if it draws, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why he wrote it to the O'Neighbys stuff later.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he was versatile and he would change.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's a lot of guys, you know, what you started with or what was the thing in your era?
[SPEAKER_01]: when it changes, it's like that's bad, it's wrong, it's no good, you know, like, um, like I remember Koalski was on some TV show and, uh, and, uh, so this had been the mid-80s, so I knew it was starting to get some publicity for his monster factory and he goes like, well, the first thing I do when I teach wrestlers is, I tell him, quit watching that crap on TV, it's all terrible none of them know what I'm doing, and it's like you, his mentality was the stuff that,
[SPEAKER_01]: was big in the 50s and 60s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, he was training wrestlers for the, for later and, you know, not applicable, but in, you know, in people's minds, and this happens with every generation.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, the more it doesn't look like what you did, the worse it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, it's like it's different fan base that you're wrestling in front of is that, that's seen more different things and you can't go backwards.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember Mushnik, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a 86 or so, it wasn't that far and maybe actually I think it actually was 87, it was 87, and I remember him telling that a sick afterwards.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Madison didn't want to hear it, but it was just like,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know what we did was great for for all that time it goes but this is this is what the wrestling is now and we couldn't do today what they what we did that the Larry was like oh we could just do it we could re-entry the answers no they've seen they've seen it go too far that we can't go backwards we couldn't do what we did it was you know it worked in our in its day and i think that that's a thing that like a lot of people
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that wanted to go backwards, it's kind of like this audience that's grown up at this level.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can go back to this level because it's worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's worth it now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so with those four, Jack Briscoe, Dory Functioner, Linus Oscar, sorry, and Brisa Brody, what order would you put them in?
[SPEAKER_01]: If you had to put them in a wagon, I couldn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ah, Dave, Dave, this little deal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I mean, I couldn't, I mean, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I couldn't, I
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Brody was better for the 80s, then they were better for the 70s than him.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what I would say.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Oscar was better for all Japan women, but, you know, I can't compare it to any of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll get through some more days then, and just get your opinions on him as workers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yoshiyaki Fujiwara.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was good, you know, I did some people that really love him and his want to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's there's a style that is really good at.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I saw him live a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not a lot, a lot, but I mean, I saw him in the 80s live and, you know, in tour.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he to me, like he didn't stand out as one of the best guys, but he had a
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the shooter gimmick and everything and he played that really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he, he was one of those first guys who knew had to not sell in a real positive way to get himself over but not hurt the other guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And his dynamic way of going into submissions is really excellent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if he would be better.
[SPEAKER_01]: later than then.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the thing is, it's like, you know, he didn't have the dynamic presence whatsoever of a top top guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, say, Antonio and Elki, you had this incredible, incredible presence.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what in no key wanted to be shooter, you know, and everything, it was like, food you wore a kind of wrestling that way.
[SPEAKER_01]: But like, it's like, I don't remember food you wore in, in what I would call like super memorable, hi, hi Max.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I remember like some of this stuff, you know, and I certainly remember the the Ricky Cho shoot feud really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, because that was very, very unique for its time, and it was really exciting.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I saw his stuff later in the 90s, and, you know, he was good, he was good.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if that's what you like, you know, he's one of the best there is, if that's what you like.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, it's forced like live and just kind of like the fuel when you're watching him live and the crowd reaction and everything like that, not not it's not at the top level now, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, what about did we go to kind of?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he was the opposite in the sense, not the opposite, but you know, watching him like when he was young, watching him, when he was like, yeah, it's superstar presence.
[SPEAKER_01]: He just had that presence and he was really good at the style that he was working, like absolutely fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, for early 90s, shoots style.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, good-looking guy, good-body, the great kicks, could do all the wrestling moves, you know, could sell pretty decently, credibility-wise.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was, he was, for his, his time and, and style, like, I would say Tamara passed him, for sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Tamara, to me, was the best of all her.
[SPEAKER_01]: When it came to actually performing as a pro wrestler in that realm.
[SPEAKER_01]: But to caught out before Tamara, I think he was the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: at that specific thing, and he can transfer it back like when Dakota went to a new Japan after the run and he had those matches with Jose and Koshinok.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know those matches were fantastic for their time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think Dakota was really, really high.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, all time if you talk about his peak, yeah, he's way up there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interestingly, Fujior was top 50 in the results.
[SPEAKER_00]: Volkhan was 49th.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fujior was 46th.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dakota finished 150 fifth.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I know one, I mean, I thought Dakota would be pretty damn high for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, especially seeing him while I, when you watch his kicks live, he was incredible
[SPEAKER_01]: He kicked hard to the chest where you can kick hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he'd do these kicks to the head.
[SPEAKER_01]: They were unbelievable in the sense of, I mean, I'd be right there in the front row watching him kick to the head.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: he every kick looked like he was knocking people out and he was not, I mean he was not touching him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I mean in that skill he you know he's like dynamite kid in the in the sense of he's doing stuff that that just looks like he's just destroying other values, not even touching him.
[SPEAKER_01]: So so yeah yeah, I mean I had to cut it should be I mean way way higher than that way way higher.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay all right so I'll just go through a pixel for people I would just talk about him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very good acrobatic wrestler way ahead of his time probably would be a bigger star now than he was then People didn't really I think these people in the establishment of wrestling just didn't really get what he was and and get it, you know, you know You know, I mean I think he could have been a much bigger star when he when it was around to but again They were the acrobatics weren't nearly as important and there was more promo and look
[SPEAKER_01]: and that held him back, but I think he should have done better.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, acrobaticalized, like he was super gifted, super-in, you know, in a way ahead of his time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't Matsumoto at 51.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she might have been the best field I've ever seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: As far as live, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: She was just, actually, I'm not, see, I actually should say that because I don't remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think I saw her live, I saw so many times on tape, because I think first time I won't, because I didn't go any women shows any or, which she was on top.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would say that I think done that smoke as one of the best healers I've ever been and perfect for her time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she wasn't as a wrestler, really not that special, but as far as, you know, as a heal and as scary presence and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, whoa, whoa, knockin' on, and Otracan were much, much better wrestlers than her, but as far as personality and heal, she was, she was at both of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was, she was awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think she'd be a container for your top 100?
[SPEAKER_01]: Not bell to bell in ring, maybe not.
[SPEAKER_01]: But overall persona, if I'm missing my top deals, she'd be really high on that list.
[SPEAKER_01]: Personality wise, gimmick wise, super gimmick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Super super gimmick for its time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Perfect deal to make a baby face get over.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, super worker in the sense of knowing what to do in land, like to be really, really dominant, like, um, like, and take most of the match, but no win to sell to get the person over.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you watch her matches, I mean, she's, I mean, I don't know that anyone consistently got, you know, he doesn't heal like her or not pipe her, not anyone, you know, maybe she, maybe she.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, very wouldn't have been 97.
[SPEAKER_00]: I found him to be a really hard one because he peaked so high, but there was just a long time with them, where it was just like, yeah, you know, it's kind of Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think very, you know, I think very, when I was probably top 25.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then after the peak, he's just a guy, you know, like he felt real hard when he did fall.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because there's me in the issues and everything that he had, you know, it's really what it was, there's the me issues.
[SPEAKER_01]: But one, but the very wind them from 80s to 3 to 90.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, like, there were points in time where like, I thought he was the most talented American wrestler that there was, him or savage, they were just so talented.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, the difference with him, like, he was so much more talented than Rick Flayer, not that Rick Flayer wasn't talented, he was.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Rick Flayer had the drive and very wind him didn't have the drive.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, Rick Flayer is a night after night, he always had to prove himself and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Moved to do these incredible matches.
[SPEAKER_01]: Barry Wendom was just kind of like going through life and having fun and and everything like that, but so talented and when he was pushed, you know, like in a match with like a top guy, like a Rick Blair, you know, you could, you know, some of Rick, I mean, I'd say in the 80s, Rick Flair's best matches were steamboat and Wendom, you know, for sure, steamboat and Wendom.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that, um, I think we haven't seen, you know, because most of the best team boat or actually the most of the best matches with both of them we didn't, we haven't seen.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, um, you know, the ones that we have, um, you know, I mean, like I said, I think pure talent and wise Barry Wyndon is probably, you know, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I lined everyone up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure it would be top 25, but my gut says in that range, you know, um, at his peak.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he was awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think he'd still finish like top 50 for you, even with the downtime?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's how I don't know, I don't know, probably no, probably no.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we didn't, you know, so that's a long journey thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: How about a Dysuke Akeda, finished at 98?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, again, I could see the style and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was really good at the style.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, he didn't feel to me like he was a super star, ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: He felt to me like he was a guy who, you know, was really, really good at what he did.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it'd be hard for me to, I mean, top 100 probably know, but, you know, I mean, biggest stars know, but as far as like what he did for the environment, he was in, yeah, he was really good, really, really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, let's see.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got a millmaskris finished 194 if he popped up 50 spots.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw a lot of millmaskris.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I first saw him because of his, and this is more, well no, I mean, like his colorful costumes, like got him over to kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: He also was a heavyweight flyer who flew more than most.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would not call him the best flyer of his era, but he was up there, super, super charisma.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very difficult to have a good match with,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, you understood how to work with him to make him look good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like as a worker, probably not like that high as a star much higher than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess the best way to put it, you know, when he showed up doing the moves that he did in a lot of places, nobody had seen any of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: But once you started seeing a lot more of the Mexican wrestlers, you know, the only thing is he was big and muscular, not big, but he was he was good size for that era and way more muscular than most of that era and he had the agility.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and he had all those unique moves.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he, you know, like, you watch a no masqueror, so imagine there's the certain spots.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you just like love those spots, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you have to see the thing we're standing on his head and doing that head, he's just saying and the flying cross drop.
[SPEAKER_01]: And nothing move.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when he did it, it's like, oh, we're getting to see no masqueror.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like he had the aura of when you saw him that he was special.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was his strengths.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean as far as do I, you know, like if he were the rest of Terry Funk would be great, yeah, of course, you know, like the greatest of the greatest wrestlers.
[SPEAKER_01]: They probably like working with Mill for reasons of, you know, one Mill respect them and have the match.
[SPEAKER_01]: Number two, Mill was box office, which was the key.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they like working with guys who are box office and super over as a baby face, you know, in the places that he went.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was an easy, you know, it's easy to work a great match with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're at that level, but if you're a guy who's not at that level, he was very difficult to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's I, you know, and again, I saw so much of him later in his career because he stayed around forever, but I mean, I would say like young and in his prime because I did see that, I mean, I wouldn't have him top 100, but I mean as far as like as as a star as a charismatic person, you know, pretty pretty high pretty high.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, take him out of his environment, um, average wrestler at best in his environment.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, as the big superhero he worked in that environment at Workwell, um, you know, did the bloodbath matches and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, built the territory.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you can't say enough of him for being over where he was.
[SPEAKER_01]: You take him out of that element.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, I saw him in San Antonio.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing special.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I remember when they built that whole first metal and show around him and tell he planned to hear it and people booed the match, you know, and did they booed him?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not what they wanted.
[SPEAKER_01]: They wanted to see, you know, they want to see Flaren and those guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so, I mean, you know, like in Puerto Rico, yeah, outside of Puerto Rico.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, again, like, he wrestled very slow, and normally I would think that that was a disadvantage, but it was his style, it wasn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he was really good like a valentine or somebody like that where, you know, I think that he got over, I mean, he was a tough guy, but he got over that he was a tough guy and he was technically really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: really big bumps to get the baby face over and to kind of startle you in everything and to think in, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's like, I mean, yeah, I mean, again, like, I have seen better, like when I would see him live as world champion.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen some guys better, but he was right there with, just right there with them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the thing was with, is that Ric Flair to me, more colorful, I think quicker and all that, and in some ways, there's so much more dramatic in the sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like as a world champion, I would put Ric Flair ahead of Harley race, but man,
[SPEAKER_01]: hardly rates has to be top 100, you know, I mean, and probably much higher than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's another one like, and again, like he could do the brawl, he could he could do the technical stuff, he had long great, great, great longevity, he didn't have super color, but he got himself over and the more you saw him, the more you respected him, I'm to like the much Nick thing when he first came in to St. Louis, like he didn't get over super right away, and
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, just because he didn't do anything super in that sense, um, that, that, that, um, like I mean, you know, again, like pioneering as I think had bad and things like that, I just weren't much to go in like the thing with him is we will get him over and we get movers from a stayover for, you know, 10 years and he did, you know, I mean, in time he got bigger and bigger and bigger and you know, Harley's best drawing years,
[SPEAKER_01]: were after his athletic prime, just because he kept coming to these places and coming to these places.
[SPEAKER_01]: And especially like I say this also, when he came, when I saw him in the Florida, so this is like 70, four-ish, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: After he was World Champion, so 74, he was at that point,
[SPEAKER_01]: just because of like the diving head, but in his ability to make the other guy look good, he was actually one of the best guys, I mean, he was the best guys in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had great great matches.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, a step above, you know, I mean, you know, right there with Briscoe, I mean, he really had great matches.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I would prime Harley race, I mean, again, it's like compared to,
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, compared to some of the guys now, it's just a different world, but in his world, really, really, really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Devil the Somme.
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome, awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: First generation of women's wrestlers that were just frickin' dynamic and everything, and she retired young and then came back and everything, but I remember there's Devil the Somme, but I'm not gonna match, that was not an ultra-pan women.
[SPEAKER_01]: when they were in rival promotions, oh my god, it was that much great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Devil Misami introduced him to Guy, or had a very famous match, that match was incredible, incredible, like match of the year.
[SPEAKER_01]: She was, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: She did power moves that none of the women could do and he's easily like she was she was I know people who thought that she was the best you know of that era.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I thought Jaguar was the best of all the women of that era, but I know people thought Missami was the best You know, I mean as far as just a worker and a wrestler and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think she'd be top hundred consider?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd have to lay it off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure
[SPEAKER_01]: Black Terry I saw some black Terry in the 70s in California.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's you know I haven't watched a lot of that video that other people have of him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've seen some.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know it it's hard he was very good though it's very good top hundred love what do you think uh i i don't know i would i mean i have to watch i have to watch more remember to be really fair um okay i mean i have to all that's happening off the top of my head from what i've seen i would say no but uh you know i mean i get i didn't see him he didn't
[SPEAKER_01]: He didn't work in places that like I was watching the TV.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you know, like in the 90s and everything, you know, I watched a lot of AAA and he wasn't really around there and I watched a CMLL.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he wasn't really around there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Didn't, you know, I mean, Japan, he wasn't around there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't see him live on Luchelie Brasho's here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, as far as I can the 80s and stuff or late 80s, 90s, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I did 70s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, I remember in the 70s, I thought he was really talented, but not like, like, I guess like he didn't stand out to me like say, Hamata, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm out of Hamata.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hamata to me was like, one of those guys were in that environment.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, okay, now this guy is, this guy's really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Black Terry, maybe not 100.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hamada, do you think would be a top-ender guy?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think so.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so, because of the way he blundered styles and everything, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I guess because he's a whole of fame or you could, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say top 100 stars or anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think underrated workers like way, way, way underrated.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kissed up in the 70s and 80s was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he was still greatness 50s.
[SPEAKER_01]: He finally fell off into his 50s.
[SPEAKER_01]: But for an acrobatic high flyer in his 50s, man, he could go with those young guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think Granumata actually, I think he's one of the most underrated wrestlers if there's ever been.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he was super.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who else would you put in that class all the time underrated guys?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, then Bobby Bobby eating to one of the people, Bobby eating was super, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Delta Bell, Bobby was super.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jerry Strada was, was, was great, great, great, great live wrestler.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess, I guess in some ways now, you know, I since I brought him up at Patterson, was a fantastic live wrestler.
[SPEAKER_01]: First, like a live wrestler guy that would like a lot of little tricks and things, be died very young, but for his age and his 20s, I hate Gilbert, believe it or not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't rate him in the top 100 of all time, but I think people would, I mean, when I think about having seen him live and everything,
[SPEAKER_01]: He was very entertaining and like with what he had, you know, let me get a member like he was very small for his era, as he owned everything, he really was quite good.
[SPEAKER_00]: What thing I noticed from the results this time around was that there's kind of a group of big carters that had previously done very well in the results and had all the L.F. 40 to 50 or so spots are in Anderson Bobby eat and you mentioned of course Bobby eat and go to Bell when the best I've ever seen I mean he's one like for his era like we used to always consider him like top 10 right in his era every year.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Bobby, if he came along today, I mean, again, he probably need something, you know, like a manager like in fact, is what he had, but I think that if he came along today, because there's so much more than emphasis on great matches, like him today, he would be viewed.
[SPEAKER_01]: way higher than he booked.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he booked as a single super star today.
[SPEAKER_01]: If he was like saying any W because because people would just gravitate towards just how fantastic he was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Back then it wasn't as important.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you need to dig muscles on everything or people didn't think he were really tough and he was just like a guy who did, you know, good moves and sold great.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, technically, I mean, he did everything and everything look good and I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, he was awesome, our Anderson was really good, of course, you know, like I never considered him like the greatest, but he was a guy that when you went to a show.
[SPEAKER_01]: always really, really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the best matches on the show on shows with a lot of great people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very consistent.
[SPEAKER_01]: His stuff worked good, like never looked at a place.
[SPEAKER_01]: His moves looked very crisp.
[SPEAKER_01]: His selling was good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Technically, like for his era, he was excellent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you think Eden and Anderson both beat up hundreds?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd have to do a list eaten for sure, eaten for sure, Anderson, maybe I'd have to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd have to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, 100.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a really, really level.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, people think that it's not that high, but I'm sure you brought out real fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I, I am sure that if I rode out all of the wrestlers that I've seen live and everything like that, I mean, I would think that like the guys in the 200s would still be pretty damn great.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what top 100 for arm, maybe, I don't know for sure, I'd have to lay it all out of
[SPEAKER_01]: like way, way, way, way, way, I mean, maybe top 25, maybe even, yeah, maybe, maybe even higher.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Bobby Eaton's wouldn't be the best, I mean, as a double ball wrestler.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dustin Rhodes also in that group of health institutes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's some of Dustin Rhodes, okay, Dustin Rhodes is so freaking talented, but he had that long period where, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he had a lot of issues, you know, for years and years, you know, got heavy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there were periods where like it just wasn't good.
[SPEAKER_01]: When he was young, like for his age, 19, 2021, 22 for that age, like way advanced.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, it's a weird one because he was tall.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, kind of like a Barry Windom and everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it was almost like, like, for him, the dusty road thing was a curse, you know, like he's the son of dusty roads but he's not a dusty road to Christmas, because nobody had dusty road to Christmas.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he went in the gold us saying, which, you know, like, I mean, with the benefit of hindsight, I would say he did a great job with that gimmick, but it was not a gimmick that we're gonna have great wrestling matches with very easily.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm sure, because he was such a good work where he did have good matches with it,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, he got me in events.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was still limiting to me in the sense that you couldn't be considered one of the greatest with a gimmick that gimmick was rolled up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then afterwards it was always like kind of like, oh yeah, he used to be gold, that's the big star.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's like it was weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like to me, like it's funny, the two best dust and roads matches I ever saw was the match with Cody in the match with Kyle Fletcher, which was his last match.
[SPEAKER_01]: But those matches were incredible and he was well into his 50s and he didn't, you know, and he evolved.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he wasn't one of those guys where, oh, they didn't do this move in the 70s.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he, like you watch him with Kyle Fletcher and realize his age, oh my god, you know, he didn't hold on that match.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Cody match was, you know, completely different because that's a pure emotion match.
[SPEAKER_01]: But my god, that's a master piece of the match.
[SPEAKER_01]: So like Pete Dustin Rhodes, of course, but he had a lot of years where he wasn't, you know, he was going through a lot a lot of turmoil.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, like I think, I think that the Dustin Rhodes of today, if he knew today, the pitfalls of mistakes and started out in his 20s with the town that he has, maybe ends up as an all-time grade.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kind of think pretty close, because he could have gone into Japan and if he had gone over and over and over again, you know, tall guy with great agility and great worker, in time, you know, he, I think he could have gotten into that, you know, that role, the Terry Goldie thing, you know what I mean, that type of thing, maybe not quite, but close, like, you know, if he went over and over again and we'd be seeing like these great match with
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I could have vote for him just because he lost in which time like between his personal issues and also just like after that he just wasn't booked as a guy that mattered for a long time like he was here and it's like almost what 15 years or something where he like he was just I know either not doing well or else like just not being used well and it's really hard for me to swear that with the dollar guy maybe 20 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe 20, but I mean, it's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, you know, he had the ability to be higher and he showed at all at various points of his career early on, a little in the middle.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at the very end that he was, but there was a lot of years there that were, you know, dark years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another guy that I that gets the love from a certain chunk of the voters for this kind of like midcarder that is at all time or role William regal Great wrestler Yeah, I mean, I mean his stuff is good his stuff is good I think if you like that the good you know I I was a fan of that style
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, yeah, I mean, kind of really, really good, really, really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say necessarily top 50 of all time, all time, that's pretty high level, but, and I think that there's a really a lot of his career.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think he got quite the breaks that he deserved and then you also had the period in double.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like his prime is the bodybuilder prime and he didn't look like a bodybuilder, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, it kind of screwed him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then he went to WWE where they were then just didn't get him, just didn't get it at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that screwed him to, you know, if you watch him in New Japan, man, he's pretty damn good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And some of the WCW stuff, like if you watch of these pre-game good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so yeah, I mean, I think, um, I think that, uh, he's a guy who, you know, he had, you know, I'm again, he had a great life in wrestling and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that if it was different and he was given a brain, you know, and also could show him to that's the other thing with him is that is that, you know, but, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just kind of like a guy who's used to put people over, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't there or anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: WWE, like I said, didn't even get him, you know, live at God him, you know, and then as a coach, he's probably really, really great.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, everything that I see, you know, we coach Danielson, Danielson's Fundamentals, so much of that comes from him.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Danielson was a guy who came to the right year for Brian Danielson and William Riegel came
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I think William Regal probably British wrestling came at the right time for him maybe a few years to late, but in the United States he probably came 15 years to early.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's in spurt fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see, I'm going to mention a few names as we wrap up here just that more recent guys that did pretty well and it'd be I'm curious to see how they do move forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: Darby Allen finished 130th this.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a tough one, but man, he's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think he's better matches than Mick Foley.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't put Mick Foley as high as those people did.
[SPEAKER_01]: But at the same time, Mick Foley was pretty great too.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think I've seen more great Darby Allen matches, Pete McFoli, that's I think to remind her, of course McFoli's twice the size of Darby Allen.
[SPEAKER_01]: And obviously way, way, way, way better promo.
[SPEAKER_01]: And made himself into a bigger star, then Darby just because there's more eyes on the product.
[SPEAKER_01]: the ECW thing, and he was so unique.
[SPEAKER_01]: Darby's very unique too, but yeah, I feel for Darby, I don't, I mean, he's smaller, so I guess that that helps as far as being able to take the stuff where it's fully, he was so big doing that stuff, maybe it wore his body out quicker, but I mean, I guess that's probably fair, you know, were he finished?
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't, I wouldn't necessarily say higher.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 135, I think that's pretty reasonable, like, flirting with 200.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because he's been on TV for like seven years now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a featured guy, too, for that entire time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But very unique, you know, I mean, in a sense of, I'm just like, like, he's someone that's going to be a lot more memorable than a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've watched him wrestle, just because it's like, oh, yeah, Garby Allen, like you'll remember, you know, just the insane stuff that he did.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the funny part, I don't say he didn't need to do it because he probably did to get over, but It's like he's actually a way better wrestler than he gets credit for in the sense of the actual wrestling like I mean I remember like seeing him live From the front row and everything and the thing that I noticed is like and he's really good as a wrestler
[SPEAKER_01]: that you don't really notice on TV.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's completely insane what he does.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's in his much better of a restaurant now.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I remember when I saw him in PWG, and it was just like he was nuts.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe more nuts than then than now.
[SPEAKER_01]: But now you see it more.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, he did stuff like in front of like, again, on those indie shows and front of like no people to get himself over and it's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hiroshima was an interesting one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I haven't spent much time watching him from DDT.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I probably haven't seen enough of him to completely be fair, but I have seen a decent amount of him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's, he's very, very good, you know, like, um, I mean, I could, we're going to finish.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was going to say, like, I think maybe, you know, again, I did the line everybody up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't, I wouldn't, yeah, I mean, I wouldn't, I wouldn't Quiver would talk 200 for him at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: He, he's very well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just to give like an idea of what we're talking about, like, here's the group from 201 to 25.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bam Bam, Bigelow, Kyoko, anyway, Karimu, Takahashi, Mastaki Mutshizuki, and Rikashiki.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's a hell of a group.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know, I don't know that I've been doing a little of that high, but not much lower.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I said, talk to or feel going away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kyoko.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Kyoko in a way, I think maybe too low, um, maybe a little too low.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw in some of the best matches that, that there, there's, there were in that era.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, Rickshame, you know, kind of an amazing fire, really.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, um, yeah, I would have Rickshay higher for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: sure that I, you know, I feel pretty good about my like post 2010 knowledge.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like he's one of the three best in that period, you know, as far as I, high flying to be clearly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, that's type of, there was a period where it's a best type of iron business, but the thing with him is, is like, he was such a legend on the indie scene for what he could do, you know, like in his guys now.
[SPEAKER_01]: because he's older and they're younger guys and everything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Haram would talk to Hash.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think Haram would talk to Hashie.
[SPEAKER_01]: What I think about him, with Dragon Lee and Steph, maybe that's too low also, but Ricochet's too low.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ricochet's too low.
[SPEAKER_00]: My problem with Haramu when it came to voting for him was that I think I did end up voting for him in the second 47th.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, that's about where I thought I'd have him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's fair.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, again, I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got a repeat that I have like big holes in my knowledge, Yoshi and like Street style and stuff like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I need to work on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the problem I had with him about going higher is for the past, I don't know, post-pandemic, I feel like like he had good matches, like I'm not gonna knock him, but like just very much kind of, you know, on a cycle, you know, like there's this thing with juniors in the past 15 years with New Japan where like you get to a certain level and then you're just like, they're like, okay, we gotta stop using you as a feature guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right, right, right, right, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, the broken neck was really serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it messed him up physically.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, not like to the point where he couldn't work or anything, but it had an impact.
[SPEAKER_01]: He came back in a great matches, but in the long run, it was gonna, you're like, with Austin, which is another reason for Austin, as far as like five, it's just like, you know, because of the injury, you didn't have the longevity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's the one thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, like I said, as a big star, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you know, you know, like is, is WCW stuff was very, very good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's WWE stuff as far as like bringing the intensity and all that for a couple of your period is absolutely outstanding, but it's a couple of your period.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think he was like maybe a little underrated as a worker like late WWE slash F, just because like once he kind of adjusted his style to really match what he could do physically, I think he was still excellent like you know as far as like a list of guys of like who who made a feel real like that was I think his whole how he carried himself in the ring really helped with that a lot personally.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh first how he carried himself his walk
[SPEAKER_01]: things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, one of the best I've ever seen as far as the conveying of the idea you know, this is a real fight and and I'm pretty pretty damn good brawn.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he's just that the breaking glass and the walking and everything and the walk to the ring and the face and
[SPEAKER_00]: The highest finishing first time guy was Guter who finished the 61st.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's really great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I can't, I can't, um, I can't say, yeah, you know, I mean, again, because the thing with him is it was like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, like he did have some good stuff with Shamus, and obviously the Tyler Bay, nearly a Dragon Off stuff in WWE, is incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the best matches W you ever had.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like my favorite matches with him would be like Jordan Devlin and Will Osprey and nearly Dragon Off in Europe.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, like, like, the, like, the, the, will ask Brian and what's it like, a David star like that stuff that stuff to me is like that super super underrated stuff like you watch that now it's like holy shit, you know, so yeah, I don't think that's too high at all and maybe maybe, um, you know, I think the problem now is that like he's, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's so little, you know what I mean like like he rarely rushes on TV, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: and his paperview matches, like, damn good.
[SPEAKER_01]: But when was the last, like, going through a paperview match it was really, like, off the charts good?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I don't, I don't feel like these ever on the main roster come closer to the dragon off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tyler, there was the, there was the shameless McIntyre triple.
[SPEAKER_01]: The shameless McIntyre three way was like that's the one that I think of.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then some of the shameless matches, like they're great.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're great.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's like even like with with with Cody, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, where.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know the last one I mean granted it's like it's like like I went in going like man this'll be great you know because and and it wasn't you know I mean it was good it was a good it was but you know and it wasn't their fault I mean they were you know the time didn't the time didn't allow it but there's you know that's the problem you know finish was like wasn't the best it was you know an idea of to bring back the return that I thought didn't just fell flat to me
[SPEAKER_01]: That was really good, yeah, yeah, that was really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: But still, like, okay, but if I didn't to me, there were some sort of actually like, it came close, but I don't think it the level of the matches that I saw in Europe or the match with the rest on any match, you know, with the three, or yeah, the three way was it, mania?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, that was a couple of manias, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, right, right, right, that three way, that three way was out, that was like, super.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's see here, a couple more names for the road.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should arrive finished 65th big jump from in the 300's.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you think she's going to shake out long-term?
[SPEAKER_01]: She's probably in the last year, been the best restaurant WWE, which in some ways that's not, I mean, it's a high compliment because compared to the people that she's with, but on a world stage,
[SPEAKER_01]: put this way.
[SPEAKER_01]: If she went back to Japan and she did, so then you see her on that stage where it's kind of like you're not held back, if that's the right term.
[SPEAKER_01]: The stage where she knows she has to work harder, man, she was great.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, um, um, yeah, you know, I mean, I wouldn't argue it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't argue
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... and uh... let's do one more uh... sorry finished a hundred thirty eight in her first time in the g w uh... feels well she's awfully good you know she's awfully good uh... technically fantastic um... you know i mean you know like again like the big matches i've seen her every time people like alert me to watch her it's always a great match
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think, I think, I think that's too cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, great conversation about a bunch of guys Dave, really appreciate your time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, everyone should know where to find you at forwonline.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're pressing them as our renews later.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just came out yesterday, just like pretty much every Friday.
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you feeling about the upcoming paper to use above due to the E&AW?
[SPEAKER_00]: Finish with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of looking forward to some of the stuff, some of the unique more unique matches, you know, I can't even make his X-A burn and, you know, what's Rick Shea and Takeshida.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I bet stuff like that, like that's kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not hitting me like the last show did, but we'll see, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess maybe the back so many people are in that cage match.
[SPEAKER_01]: WB Saudi, it's hard because the last WB show was just so mediocre, and NXT kind of kind of institutional advice and Kendall Gray kind of thing kind of that stage, they might really hit it out of the park, TNA, it's hard to get excited about TNA right now, there's so much stuff around the world that's different level from them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, um, what do you think of the dubbing card for me, Japan?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's it's tomorrow and, um, it's late tonight, but, um, like, it's, I think it will be good, yet there's not one, and, and, and, and your decision to calm movement, I think will be great, but there's not a match on that show,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that I'm like, oh my God, I can't wait.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is tonight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even though I kind of think that the U.S. and Oscar almost every match that they have, I really end up getting super excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that U.S. is really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Andrade match, like probably gonna be real good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Newman and Succi are probably great.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so, I mean, it's like, for puts bits of it, I've been more excited
[SPEAKER_01]: about many, many shows compared to this, but I do think that we're really good, you know, there's a fantastic, a manion next week.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I mean, like Friday or even Mexico is kind of like,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's me that, that's old school childhood wrestling, but we modern moves, you know, in the sense of, you know, first matches, what it is, you know, known first matches, never gonna be the best match, second matches, what it is, the people, it's like the crowd is an interesting crowd.
[SPEAKER_01]: But once you get to the good matches, that crowd is great, you know, seeing all those people in that building is great, and
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, when you, you know, I mean, mystical in that element, you know, I mean, I mean, like, I'm almost every Friday, you know, those main events, man, they're like, they're like fantastic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but like, you know, I don't even, I have no idea what they're doing for anniversary.
[SPEAKER_01]: They haven't really took their hand, and it's not that far away.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, you know, next next, not just coming Friday is actually a real big one, you know, was just because it's fantastic, and manion and all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, to that's kind of open for to that, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, thanks for joining us, Jake.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dave had a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, cool, yeah, very interesting, very interesting, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, everyone, thank you for listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dave, thanks again for your time, and everyone take care.