WEBVTT 00:00.231 --> 00:01.372 [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, that's not fair. 00:01.733 --> 00:02.894 [SPEAKER_00]: You said it as a kid. 00:03.154 --> 00:05.877 [SPEAKER_00]: You thought it as an adult, maybe even said it out loud. 00:06.297 --> 00:10.721 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you thought at this morning when you were loading the dishwasher while your partner was selling the couch. 00:11.262 --> 00:19.049 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you thought it when you were the one who made the dinner and then also had to clean up because somehow, you know, that's just how it goes. 00:19.930 --> 00:30.840 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're thinking it right now because you're the one listening to this trying to figure out how to make things better and why are you always the one who has to make changes when they're not doing anything. 00:30.980 --> 00:31.941 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not fair either. 00:32.661 --> 00:43.130 [SPEAKER_00]: Fairness is one of the most universal thoughts humans have and it's also one of the most quietly destructive forces in any of your relationships. 00:43.911 --> 00:49.133 [SPEAKER_00]: today, I'm going to show you why the fairness argument really keeps you stuck. 00:49.753 --> 00:54.795 [SPEAKER_00]: What the research says about what's happening in your brain when things feel, you know, unfair. 00:55.336 --> 01:00.758 [SPEAKER_00]: And the one question that will change everything the next time you feel the resentment starting to build. 01:01.198 --> 01:10.062 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to leave this episode with a completely different way of thinking about fairness and I promise it's really going to change how you show up in every relationship in your life. 01:10.322 --> 01:10.942 [SPEAKER_00]: So stay tuned. 01:13.183 --> 01:27.189 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Relationships Made Easy Podcast, where I give you the exact steps to create connection, joy, and ease in all your relationships, whether it's with your partner, your family, your friends, or most importantly yourself. 01:27.869 --> 01:34.832 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Dr. Abby Medkath, psychologist, bestselling author, TEDx, speaker, and the bossy Jewish mom you didn't know you needed. 01:35.532 --> 01:45.338 [SPEAKER_00]: Each week you'll get no nonsense, research back strategies, serve with humor and love, so you can stop second-guessing yourself and start having the relationships you deserve. 01:46.018 --> 01:51.962 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll always leave knowing exactly what to say and do to shift your relationships for the better. 01:52.462 --> 01:53.303 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's get to it. 01:56.596 --> 01:58.358 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome back to the podcast. 01:58.398 --> 01:58.979 [SPEAKER_00]: Here we are. 01:58.999 --> 02:00.781 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, fairness. 02:00.842 --> 02:01.883 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'm a Libra. 02:02.243 --> 02:04.486 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, the scales, right? 02:04.606 --> 02:05.788 [SPEAKER_00]: Fairness is a biggie for me. 02:06.629 --> 02:13.798 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure I really believe in all the zodiac stuff, but enough that I have really, always sort of bonded with that idea. 02:13.998 --> 02:14.639 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to tell you, 02:15.738 --> 02:41.766 [SPEAKER_00]: whether on the lead because I'm a Libra or something else, fairness has always been my Achilles heel and so you know it's it's something I'm really happy we're talking about and if you've been listening to the relationships made easy podcast for a while I get you know I have strong feelings about fairness about competition in relationships which is all related I gave a TEDx on this topic which 02:43.707 --> 02:51.656 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're not familiar with TEDx, it's a 10-style talk and I lay out exactly how keeping score is the real reason relationship's fail. 02:52.357 --> 02:57.062 [SPEAKER_00]: Not communication problems, not trust issues, those are symptoms. 02:57.522 --> 02:59.785 [SPEAKER_00]: The root cause is this fairness thing. 02:59.845 --> 03:01.567 [SPEAKER_00]: It's competition and at the heart, 03:02.698 --> 03:05.819 [SPEAKER_00]: because at the heart of competition is the idea of fairness, right? 03:06.239 --> 03:07.519 [SPEAKER_00]: And fairness shows up everywhere. 03:07.539 --> 03:13.761 [SPEAKER_00]: It shows up in how you divide the household tasks in who earns more money and who got to sleep in on Saturday. 03:14.161 --> 03:22.643 [SPEAKER_00]: It shows up when your partner gets a promotion and your first reaction is enjoy, but a quiet, you know, sinking feeling that the scales just tipped or something like that. 03:23.163 --> 03:27.904 [SPEAKER_00]: It shows up in the hardest moments when you're the one in the most pain 03:33.566 --> 03:37.188 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, and every cell in your body wants to say, but it's not my fault. 03:38.709 --> 03:39.630 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about it. 03:39.850 --> 03:42.291 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about all of it, okay? 03:42.411 --> 03:42.812 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it. 03:43.092 --> 03:46.494 [SPEAKER_00]: So why does fairness feel so urgent? 03:46.554 --> 03:47.235 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's start there. 03:49.676 --> 03:56.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Before we get into why the fairness argument backfires, I think it's worth understanding why it feels so powerful in the first place. 03:59.727 --> 04:03.369 [SPEAKER_00]: And for that, I'm going to take you into a brain scanner, okay? 04:03.569 --> 04:08.692 [SPEAKER_00]: And into a brain scanner, in 2003, there was neuroscientist named Alan Sanfee. 04:09.532 --> 04:19.077 [SPEAKER_00]: He and his colleagues, they were at Princeton University, and they conducted really the landmark study using a game called the ultimate game. 04:19.757 --> 04:20.738 [SPEAKER_00]: And here's how it works. 04:21.822 --> 04:24.704 [SPEAKER_00]: Two players split a sum of money. 04:25.625 --> 04:27.206 [SPEAKER_00]: One person proposes a division. 04:27.326 --> 04:33.711 [SPEAKER_00]: The other can accept it and both players get paid, or reject it, and neither player gets anything. 04:34.391 --> 04:38.834 [SPEAKER_00]: So economically accepting any offer, it's rational, right? 04:38.935 --> 04:41.556 [SPEAKER_00]: Even if you're only offered a dollar, that's a dollar more than you had. 04:41.977 --> 04:50.043 [SPEAKER_00]: But what San Fee found is that people routinely reject offers they perceive as unfair, even when it costs them money. 04:51.040 --> 04:57.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so even when I call somebody, the brain scans then are what told the real story, okay? 04:57.881 --> 05:07.844 [SPEAKER_00]: So when people who participated, when participants received an offer they considered unfair, a part of the brain called the anterior insula lit up. 05:08.124 --> 05:13.365 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the region associated with disgust and physical pain. 05:14.265 --> 05:14.565 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 05:15.146 --> 05:23.471 [SPEAKER_00]: So in other words, unfairness doesn't just feel bad intellectually, it registers in your brain as something physically aversive. 05:24.151 --> 05:25.472 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like touching a hot stove. 05:26.152 --> 05:30.175 [SPEAKER_00]: This is why fairness arguments are sole friggin compelling. 05:30.655 --> 05:39.760 [SPEAKER_00]: Your brain is literally treating perceived inequity as a threat of course you want to fight it. 05:40.120 --> 05:42.302 [SPEAKER_00]: Your nervous system is telling you something's wrong. 05:43.602 --> 05:48.502 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, and so there was also a relationship researcher named Elaine Hatfield. 05:49.390 --> 06:01.052 [SPEAKER_00]: And she pioneered something called equity theory with there was some other people at Wallster and Burshide, I don't know how to pronounce that name. 06:01.392 --> 06:02.312 [SPEAKER_00]: You know me, I'll link to it. 06:03.053 --> 06:09.154 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, they spent decades documenting what happens in relationships when people feel this way, okay? 06:09.714 --> 06:15.935 [SPEAKER_00]: And her longitudinal research, so long term research, found that people who felt under benefited. 06:16.935 --> 06:23.647 [SPEAKER_00]: In their relationships, reported significantly more distress and far lower relationship satisfaction. 06:25.212 --> 06:27.794 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, that's why you're so pissed. 06:27.994 --> 06:36.419 [SPEAKER_00]: And then there was another woman, another woman, Susan Sprecker, I think it's how you say your name, SPR, E, C, H, E, R, anyway. 06:37.120 --> 06:41.923 [SPEAKER_00]: She did some experimental research and showed that this runs in both directions. 06:42.123 --> 06:48.967 [SPEAKER_00]: So being reminded of times when you felt short-changed, actually causes you to feel less satisfied with your relationship. 06:49.748 --> 06:51.489 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know. 06:53.903 --> 06:55.344 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but here's where it gets interesting. 06:55.364 --> 06:57.587 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's a lot of research, so I'm gonna try to bring it all down. 06:59.048 --> 07:02.251 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's where it gets interesting, and this is research I don't want you to miss. 07:02.491 --> 07:11.379 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a study by Grow and Clark, and they found that distress and fairness perception have like a feedback loop. 07:11.860 --> 07:16.564 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're in pain in your relationship, you start scanning for evidence of unfairness. 07:17.689 --> 07:23.430 [SPEAKER_00]: And once you start keeping score, your distress is going to increase, which makes you scan harder. 07:23.910 --> 07:28.551 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what I see this every day with my clients all the time, all the time. 07:29.131 --> 07:42.373 [SPEAKER_00]: Couples who started out with, let's say, like a garden variety conflict end up in a full blown war over who did what and when, because the tracking itself makes everything feel worse. 07:43.514 --> 07:45.754 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, please be listening. 07:46.823 --> 07:51.784 [SPEAKER_00]: And your, remember your reticular activating system, your RIS, I've talked about it a million times. 07:53.044 --> 07:55.165 [SPEAKER_00]: It makes it so much worse, okay? 07:55.685 --> 08:00.746 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I've talked about your RIS a lot over the years because it shows up everywhere in your relationship dynamics. 08:00.766 --> 08:08.527 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna tell you, gonna quickly say again, your RIS, your reticular activating system is a filter between your conscious and your subconscious mind. 08:08.607 --> 08:13.908 [SPEAKER_00]: And when you consciously focus on something, your RIS treats that as an instruction, 08:14.768 --> 08:15.708 [SPEAKER_00]: to look for that thing. 08:15.748 --> 08:19.510 [SPEAKER_00]: It tells your subconscious, find more of this, okay? 08:20.150 --> 08:25.793 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you think about a time, you learned a new word you'd never heard before, right? 08:26.153 --> 08:34.077 [SPEAKER_00]: Suddenly you start hearing it everywhere in podcasts and conversations and articles, the word was always there. 08:34.117 --> 08:36.818 [SPEAKER_00]: You just weren't turned it like tuned into it, right? 08:37.358 --> 08:41.280 [SPEAKER_00]: The moment your brain got the signal to look for, it started showing up constantly. 08:42.060 --> 08:46.301 [SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, the example I always use is if you've ever thought of buying a new car, also, right? 08:46.681 --> 08:56.843 [SPEAKER_00]: You suddenly, if you want to white BMW 530i, whatever, I'm making that up, is that a real car, you'll suddenly see that car everywhere. 08:56.963 --> 08:59.243 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like more that car just started getting made. 08:59.383 --> 09:00.883 [SPEAKER_00]: It's because you're looking for it. 09:01.283 --> 09:05.624 [SPEAKER_00]: Your RX, RIS works exactly the same way in your relationships. 09:06.184 --> 09:10.985 [SPEAKER_00]: The moment you start tracking fairness and thinking, my partner never pulls their weight. 09:11.545 --> 09:30.722 [SPEAKER_00]: your brain gets the order find examples of my partner not pulling their way and it will every single time not because your partner has suddenly gotten worse but because that's what you told your brain to look for and here's the worst part I think that's pretty bad but meanwhile what it also does 09:31.322 --> 09:40.286 [SPEAKER_00]: It's filtering out everything that doesn't match all the moments your partner did show help, did show up, did try, was appreciative. 09:40.786 --> 09:42.066 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't register anymore. 09:42.186 --> 09:46.428 [SPEAKER_00]: I always say it's like your Teflon, all of a sudden, for anything good. 09:46.948 --> 09:54.051 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you feel like you have all this evidence, and it's not really, it is your again, then and your confirmation bias comes into play. 09:54.151 --> 09:54.551 [SPEAKER_00]: There's so 09:56.792 --> 09:58.233 [SPEAKER_00]: just screws you over. 09:58.353 --> 09:59.293 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know what to say. 09:59.334 --> 10:02.735 [SPEAKER_00]: And you're so sure you're seeing the truth, but you're not. 10:02.795 --> 10:04.716 [SPEAKER_00]: You're seeing it through different filters. 10:06.077 --> 10:11.440 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, there's also a moving target here, nobody tells you about. 10:11.480 --> 10:13.681 [SPEAKER_00]: Let me, yeah, I'm going to go there next. 10:13.781 --> 10:14.001 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 10:14.942 --> 10:17.623 [SPEAKER_00]: So, you know me, I get all excited. 10:17.683 --> 10:20.645 [SPEAKER_00]: I start talking and I'm like, ah, the research Baba, so hopefully I just 10:26.967 --> 10:34.909 [SPEAKER_00]: that real in your brain and body, why am I saying it's the wrong goal, right? 10:35.270 --> 10:39.971 [SPEAKER_00]: Because fairness is a moving target, that's why. 10:41.231 --> 10:43.772 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no fixed standard for fairness. 10:43.792 --> 10:49.754 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no chart you can consult to find out what fair looks like in your specific relationship with your specific 10:53.595 --> 10:54.555 [SPEAKER_00]: that's the problem. 10:55.156 --> 11:02.519 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's funny, there's a psychologist, Becky Kennedy, Dr. Beck, Dr. Becky Kennedy, she's a psychologist. 11:03.019 --> 11:09.422 [SPEAKER_00]: She, you know, she does a lot of parenting stuff and she, her website's called Good Inside, I think. 11:10.142 --> 11:12.063 [SPEAKER_00]: And I think she has a book called Good Inside, too. 11:12.123 --> 11:14.625 [SPEAKER_00]: But she makes a point about this that I love. 11:14.845 --> 11:16.726 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've repeated it multiple times. 11:17.246 --> 11:24.210 [SPEAKER_00]: She talks about when families set fairness as a goal, you create more conflict, not less. 11:24.630 --> 11:28.132 [SPEAKER_00]: So her phrase is, we don't do fair. 11:28.152 --> 11:29.133 [SPEAKER_00]: We do individual needs. 11:29.793 --> 11:34.075 [SPEAKER_00]: Because the moment you start tracking what's fair, you're not asking, what do I actually need? 11:34.095 --> 11:36.917 [SPEAKER_00]: You're asking, what does my partner have that I don't? 11:38.122 --> 11:40.503 [SPEAKER_00]: you're looking outward instead of inward. 11:41.303 --> 11:45.785 [SPEAKER_00]: And that outward gaze is really the engine of resentment. 11:46.365 --> 11:47.766 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so let me give you an example. 11:47.846 --> 11:48.767 [SPEAKER_00]: I see this one all the time. 11:48.827 --> 11:51.608 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say, let's say your partner travels for work. 11:52.148 --> 11:56.270 [SPEAKER_00]: Your home managing the kids, the appointments, the house, the everything, right? 11:57.250 --> 11:59.052 [SPEAKER_00]: Your partner comes back after five days away. 11:59.112 --> 12:04.157 [SPEAKER_00]: They drop their bag and within an hour, you know, the horse on the couch watching a game or something, right? 12:04.378 --> 12:05.018 [SPEAKER_00]: You're furious. 12:05.098 --> 12:09.843 [SPEAKER_00]: You've been on for five straight days and they get to decompress the second they walk in. 12:10.063 --> 12:11.145 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not fair. 12:12.303 --> 12:25.754 [SPEAKER_00]: But your partner has been back to back client dinners, presentations, sleeping in hotels, eating airport food, and performing at a really high level under constant scrutiny, packing so much into those five days. 12:26.655 --> 12:28.896 [SPEAKER_00]: They're depleted in a completely different way. 12:29.617 --> 12:36.843 [SPEAKER_00]: Neither of you is wrong about what you need, but the fairness framework puts you on opposite sides of like a ledger. 12:38.814 --> 12:44.740 [SPEAKER_00]: When the real question is, what does this team need right now, and how do we get there together? 12:44.760 --> 12:46.902 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you see it? 12:46.962 --> 12:49.424 [SPEAKER_00]: This is what I mean when I say fairness is arbitrary. 12:49.724 --> 12:55.790 [SPEAKER_00]: You can always make a case that something is unfair if you look at it through the right lens, you know, if you count hours. 12:56.670 --> 12:58.692 [SPEAKER_00]: One of you wins some weeks and the other 12:59.673 --> 13:00.434 [SPEAKER_00]: wins other weeks. 13:00.574 --> 13:02.856 [SPEAKER_00]: If you count emotional labor, you might have a case. 13:02.956 --> 13:06.019 [SPEAKER_00]: If you count the nights, you both lost sleep in the first year with a baby. 13:06.159 --> 13:07.601 [SPEAKER_00]: It gets murkier, right? 13:08.121 --> 13:14.527 [SPEAKER_00]: The scoreboard is always going to show something and it's always going to feel incomplete. 13:14.707 --> 13:15.188 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the orange. 13:15.548 --> 13:21.152 [SPEAKER_00]: because there is no fair, there's only what you both need, right? 13:21.712 --> 13:28.397 [SPEAKER_00]: And I will tell you, we used to do this a lot with my kids were little, and I didn't know about Dr. Becky, but I don't think she was around back then. 13:28.437 --> 13:29.457 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know, you know, I'm older. 13:30.778 --> 13:34.621 [SPEAKER_00]: we never gave my kids the same things, ever, ever. 13:35.221 --> 13:40.886 [SPEAKER_00]: And I see it all the time, someone's like, oh, your brother got something, then you need something, your sister got something, then you know, don't do that. 13:41.326 --> 13:45.189 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the point of trying to make, and they're still unhappy, aren't they? 13:45.229 --> 13:46.190 [SPEAKER_00]: Haven't you ever noticed that? 13:46.810 --> 13:50.593 [SPEAKER_00]: So, our thing, and I always have this one example I'm remembering, where... 13:54.116 --> 13:57.999 [SPEAKER_00]: We used to spend individual, their dad and I would spend individual time with the kids. 13:58.599 --> 14:02.042 [SPEAKER_00]: And one day, I was home with Max and McCartney. 14:02.102 --> 14:06.305 [SPEAKER_00]: My daughter had gone to this little top lot kind of park with her dad. 14:06.906 --> 14:08.146 [SPEAKER_00]: And Max got upset. 14:08.166 --> 14:09.568 [SPEAKER_00]: He was like, that's not fair. 14:09.628 --> 14:10.488 [SPEAKER_00]: McCartney's with dad. 14:10.508 --> 14:11.969 [SPEAKER_00]: They're going to the top lot, blah, blah, blah. 14:12.470 --> 14:13.631 [SPEAKER_00]: Max didn't like the top lot. 14:13.651 --> 14:14.611 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want to say that out loud. 14:15.652 --> 14:18.574 [SPEAKER_00]: So, I didn't say to him, like, what do you mean it's not fair? 14:18.594 --> 14:20.896 [SPEAKER_00]: Whatever, I just said to him, I said, and what I was saying? 14:20.916 --> 14:22.457 [SPEAKER_00]: I said, I said, well, what do you want? 14:22.917 --> 14:24.038 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you want to go to the top lot? 14:25.038 --> 14:29.682 [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, well, no, I don't want to go to the top lot, but, you know, it's not fair that there are the top lot. 14:29.702 --> 14:32.904 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, so I just said to him, what do you want? 14:34.265 --> 14:35.626 [SPEAKER_00]: And he stopped. 14:35.646 --> 14:36.886 [SPEAKER_00]: He didn't even know for a minute. 14:36.966 --> 14:37.247 [SPEAKER_00]: I said, 14:38.063 --> 14:38.583 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want? 14:38.924 --> 14:40.245 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you want to do right now? 14:40.365 --> 14:41.446 [SPEAKER_00]: What is it that you would like? 14:41.766 --> 14:43.347 [SPEAKER_00]: Forget about McCartney, forget about Dad. 14:43.427 --> 14:44.428 [SPEAKER_00]: What would you like right now? 14:45.128 --> 14:47.610 [SPEAKER_00]: And he goes, well, I want to play some basketball. 14:47.650 --> 14:49.152 [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, great, do you want to play with me? 14:49.332 --> 14:53.255 [SPEAKER_00]: Or would you rather we had some next-door neighbors who used to play with all the time? 14:53.675 --> 14:54.776 [SPEAKER_00]: I said, you want to go next door. 14:55.396 --> 14:59.059 [SPEAKER_00]: And he looked at me, he goes, oh, I want to go next door. 14:59.099 --> 14:59.600 [SPEAKER_00]: I said, great. 15:00.040 --> 15:01.801 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, we went next door. 15:01.941 --> 15:02.882 [SPEAKER_00]: Kids were all, it was great. 15:02.962 --> 15:03.923 [SPEAKER_00]: He went and played basketball. 15:04.343 --> 15:04.563 [SPEAKER_00]: Done. 15:05.524 --> 15:05.724 [SPEAKER_00]: done. 15:06.064 --> 15:07.585 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you see the difference? 15:07.685 --> 15:13.608 [SPEAKER_00]: When you get kids and I will tell you now my kids are in their 20s and they are never ever jealous of each other, ever, ever, ever. 15:13.648 --> 15:14.509 [SPEAKER_00]: And they had never had been. 15:14.589 --> 15:16.350 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that was the last time Max ever said that. 15:16.770 --> 15:24.194 [SPEAKER_00]: There's something we always were careful to not, you know, you get one, you get that tip for cat crap, we never did it again. 15:24.254 --> 15:25.955 [SPEAKER_00]: I just sort of did it intuitively. 15:26.535 --> 15:30.839 [SPEAKER_00]: And as I learned, you know, research later as, you know, Dr. Becky came out other people. 15:30.999 --> 15:33.901 [SPEAKER_00]: It was clear like, oh, I was actually doing something right. 15:34.622 --> 15:35.403 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't do everything right. 15:35.423 --> 15:36.283 [SPEAKER_00]: But I did something right. 15:36.804 --> 15:42.789 [SPEAKER_00]: But that idea, and I see them now and when one of them gets something, the, and the other, they're just happy for each other. 15:43.029 --> 15:48.452 [SPEAKER_00]: they never, ever focus on what they don't have or do have or compare it or anything. 15:48.853 --> 15:52.695 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's from a childhood of not having, I'm telling you, that's what I think. 15:53.555 --> 15:57.118 [SPEAKER_00]: A childhood of us never allowing that sort of behavior. 15:57.678 --> 16:00.960 [SPEAKER_00]: So it, because it's never, even's a hell. 16:01.060 --> 16:01.720 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know that. 16:02.181 --> 16:03.922 [SPEAKER_00]: Keeping score makes you lose. 16:04.082 --> 16:06.203 [SPEAKER_00]: I say it all the time, right? 16:07.124 --> 16:10.506 [SPEAKER_00]: And I have, I've been talking about competition 16:13.156 --> 16:17.242 [SPEAKER_00]: And I did a deep dive on an episode on keeping score. 16:17.282 --> 16:18.364 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll link to it in the show notes. 16:21.783 --> 16:30.186 [SPEAKER_00]: And also, not to show notes on the blog, sorry, which you can find at abmecaptalk.com anytime I mention research by the way, or the free download for today, which is amazing. 16:30.206 --> 16:31.627 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a great therapy to go bundle for today. 16:32.027 --> 16:36.629 [SPEAKER_00]: All that you can find either under the video if you're watching on YouTube or on the website. 16:36.789 --> 16:41.451 [SPEAKER_00]: But let me, let me get back to the competition thing and let me give you the essential version here. 16:41.591 --> 16:49.574 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're keeping score in your relationship, you're treating it like a competition and in a competition, somebody wins and somebody loses. 16:52.473 --> 16:56.717 [SPEAKER_00]: you're setting it up so that when your partner does well, you lose. 16:57.839 --> 17:05.406 [SPEAKER_00]: You set it up so that when you need something, it comes, I'm sorry, when they need something, it comes at your expense or vice versa. 17:06.398 --> 17:09.760 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's the dynamic that turns partners into opponents. 17:10.580 --> 17:12.041 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I really want you to hear me on this. 17:12.301 --> 17:15.562 [SPEAKER_00]: You and your partner are one shared resource. 17:15.782 --> 17:19.204 [SPEAKER_00]: I use this frame, I have for years, I constantly. 17:19.284 --> 17:24.186 [SPEAKER_00]: When you pull energy from your partner, you're pulling it from your team. 17:24.666 --> 17:26.907 [SPEAKER_00]: When your partner is depleted, your team is depleted. 17:27.108 --> 17:32.130 [SPEAKER_00]: There is no separate court card because there's only one account. 17:34.630 --> 17:37.314 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and I said this to my, in my TED Talk. 17:37.474 --> 17:42.100 [SPEAKER_00]: I said you, your partner can't take anything off your plate because it's the same plate. 17:43.905 --> 17:44.606 [SPEAKER_00]: I hear it all the time. 17:44.626 --> 17:45.666 [SPEAKER_00]: You got to take something off my plate. 17:45.946 --> 17:46.607 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the same plate. 17:47.367 --> 17:49.009 [SPEAKER_00]: You are moving around the mashed potatoes. 17:49.309 --> 17:52.931 [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing is actually changing when you hand it over to your partner. 17:53.292 --> 17:54.452 [SPEAKER_00]: The work doesn't disappear. 17:54.512 --> 17:55.733 [SPEAKER_00]: The stress doesn't disappear. 17:56.053 --> 18:00.056 [SPEAKER_00]: You're just shuffle it around and you both end up exhausted and resentful. 18:00.216 --> 18:04.119 [SPEAKER_00]: Both of you trust me because you're looking at what they're doing and you always think it's more. 18:05.120 --> 18:07.321 [SPEAKER_00]: That you're doing more, sorry, than what they're doing. 18:07.561 --> 18:08.022 [SPEAKER_00]: Every time. 18:08.920 --> 18:09.620 [SPEAKER_00]: and vice versa. 18:10.341 --> 18:16.023 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is why the lines that seem so logical actually work against you. 18:16.263 --> 18:21.285 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I drove the kids to soccer on Tuesday, so you need to take them on Thursday. 18:21.765 --> 18:24.246 [SPEAKER_00]: You went out on Friday night, so I get to go out on Saturday. 18:24.666 --> 18:27.948 [SPEAKER_00]: I did the cooking, so you need to do the cleaning afterwards, right? 18:28.328 --> 18:30.589 [SPEAKER_00]: Those statements put you on opposite teams. 18:30.629 --> 18:31.969 [SPEAKER_00]: They signal to your partner. 18:32.370 --> 18:33.110 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm watching you. 18:33.550 --> 18:35.031 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm tracking what you owe me. 18:35.731 --> 18:45.441 [SPEAKER_00]: And that energy poisons connection faster than almost anything else I know I'm telling you and there's research You know I'm gonna my my my good friend John Gottman. 18:45.461 --> 18:57.673 [SPEAKER_00]: He's not my good friend, but I love him and Julie that the he and his wife John Gottman's research has shown that one of the most reliable predictors of relationship failure isn't how couples fight 18:58.950 --> 19:01.051 [SPEAKER_00]: It's how they respond to each other's good news. 19:01.872 --> 19:07.214 [SPEAKER_00]: If your partner gets a promotion and yours first thought is resentment, okay? 19:08.255 --> 19:11.616 [SPEAKER_00]: Or relieve that the score is balanced, you're in serious trouble. 19:13.497 --> 19:19.120 [SPEAKER_00]: Keeping score means you structurally cannot be happy for your partner, and that is a profound loss for both of you. 19:19.140 --> 19:20.081 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just telling you right now. 19:21.481 --> 19:22.782 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the problem. 19:27.284 --> 19:35.310 [SPEAKER_00]: I've been saying for years that the one in the most pain always needs to change first, okay? 19:35.851 --> 19:37.372 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying it now, I've said it for years. 19:38.093 --> 19:39.093 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not a moral judgment. 19:39.293 --> 19:43.957 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not saying you're wrong or that your partner's off the hook or that the situation is okay. 19:44.037 --> 19:47.780 [SPEAKER_00]: It's saying if you want things to be different, someone has to move first. 19:47.960 --> 19:53.425 [SPEAKER_00]: And that person with the most motivation to move is the person who's suffering the most. 19:57.338 --> 20:03.342 [SPEAKER_00]: At some point, a voice in your head is probably said that all sounds great Abby, but you don't understand my situation. 20:03.703 --> 20:04.883 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm the one who's been showing up. 20:04.963 --> 20:06.084 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm the one who's been doing the work. 20:06.425 --> 20:11.648 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not fair that I have to change first, when none of this is my fault, or some someone's of that. 20:11.788 --> 20:14.210 [SPEAKER_00]: And I hear you, I love you, I hear you. 20:14.911 --> 20:17.512 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want to say something that might feel uncomfortable. 20:18.693 --> 20:21.755 [SPEAKER_00]: You write that it might not be your fault, and it doesn't matter. 20:22.996 --> 20:23.597 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter. 20:25.706 --> 20:27.770 [SPEAKER_00]: I call this relationship gridlock. 20:28.351 --> 20:28.571 [SPEAKER_00]: You know. 20:29.614 --> 20:39.362 [SPEAKER_00]: If you picture a traffic jam where no one can move, everyone is honking, everyone's frustrated, everyone is somewhere to be, and everyone is waiting for someone else to go first. 20:39.462 --> 20:42.024 [SPEAKER_00]: But here's the thing about gridlock, right? 20:42.384 --> 20:44.425 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter who's fault it is. 20:44.545 --> 20:49.930 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter who cut whom off three intersections back or who should have taken a different route. 20:49.950 --> 20:50.470 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter. 20:50.810 --> 20:56.194 [SPEAKER_00]: What matters is that just one person moving the car is all it takes to break the whole thing open. 20:57.167 --> 20:59.067 [SPEAKER_00]: One person, back and up, that's it. 20:59.747 --> 21:02.088 [SPEAKER_00]: The person who moves isn't the loser. 21:02.248 --> 21:03.108 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not keeping score. 21:03.888 --> 21:06.569 [SPEAKER_00]: The one who actually gets where they're going. 21:07.289 --> 21:12.850 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're waiting for your partner to change first, you're sitting in that gridlock and assisting it's their turn to move. 21:13.350 --> 21:16.390 [SPEAKER_00]: And everyone just stays stuck. 21:16.490 --> 21:18.351 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know that because that's probably why you're listening. 21:18.851 --> 21:23.752 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, and I know you're also going to, but I'm always the one who changes. 21:23.972 --> 21:25.252 [SPEAKER_00]: There it is, keeping scoring him. 21:26.584 --> 21:27.285 [SPEAKER_00]: you see the problem. 21:27.305 --> 21:29.349 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to tell you how to fix it, but give me a minute. 21:29.489 --> 21:29.910 [SPEAKER_00]: Stay with me. 21:30.310 --> 21:33.776 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, here's something I really want you to think about, because this is where 21:35.051 --> 21:43.274 [SPEAKER_00]: that Timothy Wilson's research becomes so important that I talk about, if you've been listening to me for a while, you've heard this research, I'm going to repeat it again because it's so important. 21:43.814 --> 21:46.995 [SPEAKER_00]: He has an amazing one of my favorite books of all time, strangers to ourselves. 21:47.855 --> 21:52.777 [SPEAKER_00]: Timothy Wilson documents something remarkable about how your brain works. 21:53.317 --> 21:57.559 [SPEAKER_00]: And I've used this piece of, I quote this research more than anything else. 21:58.650 --> 22:09.079 [SPEAKER_00]: He says that what he's found in his research is that you're conscious, brain, you're conscious mind, processes information at a rate of about 40 bits per second. 22:09.699 --> 22:18.247 [SPEAKER_00]: While you're subconscious mind, processes information at a rate of about 11 million bits per second. 22:18.727 --> 22:39.757 [SPEAKER_00]: And what that means for your relationship is this, if you make changes while you're still full resentment, your partner subconscious is picking up on every single bit of it, even if their conscious brain sees the nicer behavior, even if your conscious brain is all like, you know, okay, I'm going to try this thing, but you know, again, deep down, you're like, I'm so pissed. 22:39.797 --> 22:41.277 [SPEAKER_00]: I have to be the one trying again. 22:41.917 --> 22:43.138 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so resentful about this. 22:43.158 --> 22:43.838 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm so angry. 22:44.359 --> 22:46.900 [SPEAKER_00]: I call this the wobble, okay, the wobble. 22:48.900 --> 22:51.541 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the difference between your conscious and your subconscious. 22:51.601 --> 22:52.402 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the wobble. 22:52.822 --> 22:58.704 [SPEAKER_00]: Your partner notices you being kinder, saying, Thank you more, maybe, I don't know, maybe even helping more. 22:58.784 --> 22:59.464 [SPEAKER_00]: Something like that. 22:59.944 --> 23:01.685 [SPEAKER_00]: The conscious brain logs it. 23:02.245 --> 23:06.666 [SPEAKER_00]: But their subconscious, again, processing at 11 million bits per second. 23:06.686 --> 23:11.388 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of that 40, is picking up on your frustration and resentment underneath. 23:11.508 --> 23:13.809 [SPEAKER_00]: And so they get suspicious, not consciously. 23:13.909 --> 23:15.369 [SPEAKER_00]: Subconsciously, they get suspicious. 23:17.430 --> 23:25.477 [SPEAKER_00]: Actually, sometimes that's conscious because I've had people say to me, well, my wife is acting nicer, my boyfriend's acting nicer, but I don't trust it. 23:25.637 --> 23:26.017 [SPEAKER_00]: I hear it. 23:27.419 --> 23:31.202 [SPEAKER_00]: They're thinking, oh, let's see how long this lasts. 23:31.482 --> 23:31.903 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's see. 23:32.323 --> 23:35.045 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, you don't get the response you were hoping for. 23:35.726 --> 23:42.532 [SPEAKER_00]: You feel then justified going back to resentment and stopping the nice behavior and the whole cycle starts again. 23:43.554 --> 23:45.955 [SPEAKER_00]: This is why, genuine change. 23:46.035 --> 23:55.177 [SPEAKER_00]: Change that comes from actually shifting your perspective, rather than just sort of white knuckling, better behavior, is the only thing that works long term. 23:55.217 --> 23:57.238 [SPEAKER_00]: Your partner can feel the difference. 23:57.298 --> 23:58.358 [SPEAKER_00]: You feel the difference. 23:58.858 --> 24:02.119 [SPEAKER_00]: They're nervous system knows because you're a nervous system knows. 24:02.139 --> 24:04.620 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna say this clear. 24:05.140 --> 24:07.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Fault is irrelevant in healing. 24:09.580 --> 24:10.961 [SPEAKER_00]: And I said, again, I got quiet. 24:11.582 --> 24:15.765 [SPEAKER_00]: Fault is irrelevant when it comes to healing. 24:16.346 --> 24:22.731 [SPEAKER_00]: You can be completely right about who caused the problem and still be the person who has to take the first step towards solving it. 24:23.452 --> 24:26.154 [SPEAKER_00]: Those two things are not mutually exclusive. 24:26.174 --> 24:28.136 [SPEAKER_00]: All right. 24:30.062 --> 24:31.783 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay, so what do you do in the moment? 24:32.264 --> 24:32.964 [SPEAKER_00]: What do I do, Abby? 24:33.044 --> 24:33.925 [SPEAKER_00]: Great, thanks, Abby. 24:34.486 --> 24:38.989 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like, I hopefully you don't feel like I've been beaten you up for a while, but I can feel my voice. 24:39.529 --> 24:42.592 [SPEAKER_00]: I need you to get this, like, this changes your life. 24:42.872 --> 24:49.197 [SPEAKER_00]: This change in perspective, this episode, more than almost anyone will change your life when you get it. 24:49.777 --> 24:50.998 [SPEAKER_00]: You will feel more a piece. 24:51.119 --> 24:55.722 [SPEAKER_00]: You will feel more fulfilled, more satisfied and happier, just from this perspective shift. 24:55.822 --> 24:56.623 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to tell you. 24:58.105 --> 24:58.325 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? 24:58.606 --> 24:59.166 [SPEAKER_00]: So, okay. 24:59.186 --> 24:59.967 [SPEAKER_00]: So, what do you do in the moment? 25:00.427 --> 25:10.456 [SPEAKER_00]: When the fairness thought shows up, when you feel the resentment rising, when you catch yourself, you know, tallying up everything you've done and comparing it to everything they have and done, right? 25:11.397 --> 25:15.641 [SPEAKER_00]: You stop and you ask, what do I actually need right now? 25:16.241 --> 25:16.662 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. 25:16.842 --> 25:19.104 [SPEAKER_00]: That's that Dr. Becky Kennedy's reframe. 25:20.705 --> 25:22.167 [SPEAKER_00]: What do I, what do I need right now? 25:22.267 --> 25:23.448 [SPEAKER_00]: And I want you to sit with it. 25:24.876 --> 25:34.426 [SPEAKER_00]: The fairness thought is a signal, but it's not pointing you towards a problem with your partner, it's pointing you toward an unmet need in yourself. 25:34.547 --> 25:37.890 [SPEAKER_00]: Your brain is flagging that something is off. 25:38.691 --> 25:39.732 [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's important. 25:39.812 --> 25:46.059 [SPEAKER_00]: Your job is to get curious about what that something actually is. 25:46.900 --> 25:52.487 [SPEAKER_00]: not why hasn't my partner done their share of the dishes, but you know am I exhausted? 25:52.667 --> 25:53.508 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I need help? 25:53.608 --> 25:54.509 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I need rest? 25:54.689 --> 25:56.111 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I need to feel like a priority? 25:56.431 --> 25:58.634 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I need to feel like we're on the same team? 25:59.174 --> 26:02.058 [SPEAKER_00]: Because once you know what you actually need, you can ask for that. 26:02.418 --> 26:08.504 [SPEAKER_00]: Not accusatory, now it is an indictment of your partner's inadequacy, just, you know, I'm really depleted right now. 26:08.904 --> 26:11.326 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we figure out how to get some time this weekend? 26:11.767 --> 26:14.710 [SPEAKER_00]: Or I've been feeling like we're each on our own islands lately. 26:14.770 --> 26:16.091 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we reconnect tonight? 26:16.571 --> 26:19.955 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a completely different conversation than the one that starts with fairness. 26:21.711 --> 26:26.452 [SPEAKER_00]: And that conversation puts your partner on trial, puts your relationship on trial. 26:26.912 --> 26:29.673 [SPEAKER_00]: This conversation invites them to show up for you. 26:30.213 --> 26:38.415 [SPEAKER_00]: And when your partner says when they say something is unfair, the same question applies. 26:38.635 --> 26:43.916 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead of defending yourself or pulling out your own scorecard, well, you don't like this one. 26:43.956 --> 26:45.877 [SPEAKER_00]: I've done this, this, this, this, this, this. 26:45.897 --> 26:46.117 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? 26:46.297 --> 26:47.197 [SPEAKER_00]: No, let it go. 26:47.857 --> 26:50.778 [SPEAKER_00]: Instead, try, hey, what do you need right now? 26:52.143 --> 27:00.789 [SPEAKER_00]: And like I did with my little boy, you know, at the time, it took a couple, he was, you know, kind of thrown off by it, but it took a couple tries. 27:00.829 --> 27:02.090 [SPEAKER_00]: But what do you need right now? 27:02.831 --> 27:05.012 [SPEAKER_00]: And you might be surprised by the answer. 27:06.313 --> 27:10.456 [SPEAKER_00]: It's rarely actually about the thing they're complaining about. 27:11.897 --> 27:15.320 [SPEAKER_00]: And if even if they did go there first, well, I just need to do the dishes. 27:16.328 --> 27:17.869 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, but what do you need right now? 27:17.909 --> 27:21.951 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I can do the dishes, but tell me more, what do you need right now? 27:23.552 --> 27:25.394 [SPEAKER_00]: If the dishes were done, what would you need right now? 27:25.414 --> 27:27.475 [SPEAKER_00]: Would you be super happy right now if the dishes were done? 27:27.895 --> 27:30.977 [SPEAKER_00]: Would you be like, so in love with me right now if the dishes were done? 27:31.657 --> 27:32.738 [SPEAKER_00]: What do you need right now? 27:33.198 --> 27:35.119 [SPEAKER_00]: You're right, do you see it? 27:36.420 --> 27:36.981 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you see it? 27:37.421 --> 27:40.903 [SPEAKER_00]: And of course you have to be mindful to do this. 27:41.103 --> 27:42.224 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I know, I know. 27:42.684 --> 27:43.645 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm saying it again. 27:43.725 --> 27:45.566 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm not, sorry, not sorry. 27:46.405 --> 27:50.928 [SPEAKER_00]: Mindfulness is one of the most powerful tools for catching yourself mid-score keeping. 27:51.328 --> 27:56.652 [SPEAKER_00]: When you can notice the thought without acting on it, that's where you create space to ask a better question. 27:58.153 --> 28:02.696 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're not mindful, if you're not in your moment, noticing it, I don't know what you're going to do. 28:02.936 --> 28:05.538 [SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be face-pomming later. 28:05.938 --> 28:07.719 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't believe I did that, I can't believe I said that. 28:08.120 --> 28:09.321 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to get mindful. 28:10.041 --> 28:10.261 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? 28:11.143 --> 28:12.685 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got tons of resources on that. 28:12.745 --> 28:14.408 [SPEAKER_00]: You can find them on the website, okay? 28:14.608 --> 28:14.809 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? 28:14.989 --> 28:15.650 [SPEAKER_00]: Go to the steps though. 28:15.670 --> 28:16.251 [SPEAKER_00]: They'll all be there. 28:16.892 --> 28:17.593 [SPEAKER_00]: Or below the video. 28:19.370 --> 28:24.393 [SPEAKER_00]: So what I want you to do is stop negotiating across a line and start looking up. 28:24.693 --> 28:25.793 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm gonna explain what I mean. 28:26.013 --> 28:31.796 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a tool I give to clients that really changes how they see, I would say almost every conflict. 28:32.036 --> 28:36.319 [SPEAKER_00]: Most couples approach problems like they're standing on opposite ends of a straight line. 28:36.379 --> 28:37.299 [SPEAKER_00]: They're facing each other. 28:37.439 --> 28:38.980 [SPEAKER_00]: And this doesn't just work with couples, right? 28:39.000 --> 28:44.623 [SPEAKER_00]: This is you and your mom, or you and your kid, or whatever, right, or you two kids, or whatever. 28:45.463 --> 29:07.550 [SPEAKER_00]: You're I'm going to just do it you and your partner, but if you're not partnered right now or you know think of anybody you have a hard time with you're on one end and your partner is on the other and somewhere in the middle you're negotiating Who's going to do the dishes if you can't do it then they have to right we go you go back and forth okay back and forth you bargain you trade you keep score. 29:09.120 --> 29:13.344 [SPEAKER_00]: same mashed potatoes, people, same mashed potatoes still on the same plate. 29:14.085 --> 29:16.367 [SPEAKER_00]: That line is your plate, same plate. 29:17.588 --> 29:22.312 [SPEAKER_00]: Because here's the thing about compromise, which I know sounds like the obvious solution to all this. 29:23.553 --> 29:24.895 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you're like, oh, you just have to compromise. 29:25.735 --> 29:29.018 [SPEAKER_00]: The research actually shows it doesn't work as well as we think it does. 29:30.360 --> 29:30.600 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay? 29:33.167 --> 29:37.250 [SPEAKER_00]: There's decades of psychology research in human relationships. 29:37.671 --> 29:48.219 [SPEAKER_00]: And we know that compromise can make, doesn't make anybody happy because both parties tend to feel, they either gave away too much or receive too little. 29:48.419 --> 29:49.560 [SPEAKER_00]: That's why we know from the research. 29:50.061 --> 29:52.283 [SPEAKER_00]: Both people walk away feeling like the loser. 29:53.681 --> 29:57.642 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know it's true, even when you compromise, you still feel like you gave up, you know you do. 29:57.882 --> 29:59.863 [SPEAKER_00]: Every time, think of the last compromise you made with your partner. 30:00.223 --> 30:03.024 [SPEAKER_00]: You feel like you gave up more than they did. 30:04.164 --> 30:05.945 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not a solution. 30:06.345 --> 30:10.146 [SPEAKER_00]: That's resentment in a different shirt, okay? 30:11.006 --> 30:16.627 [SPEAKER_00]: So I want you to try thinking about it as a triangle instead, not a line, but a triangle. 30:17.148 --> 30:23.889 [SPEAKER_00]: So you're at one corner of the base and your partner is at the other corner of the base, that line along the bottom, okay? 30:24.629 --> 30:28.090 [SPEAKER_00]: And the problem, whatever it is, sits at the top of the triangle. 30:28.650 --> 30:35.212 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not facing each other, you face up towards the top, looking at a shared problem together. 30:35.892 --> 30:38.815 [SPEAKER_00]: And the question isn't, who's going to handle this? 30:39.015 --> 30:40.076 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not the question. 30:40.196 --> 30:41.137 [SPEAKER_00]: Who's going to do the dishes? 30:41.217 --> 30:42.458 [SPEAKER_00]: Who's going to handle this problem? 30:42.558 --> 30:44.060 [SPEAKER_00]: That's not the question. 30:44.540 --> 30:47.543 [SPEAKER_00]: But how are we going to solve this together? 30:47.583 --> 30:50.306 [SPEAKER_00]: The problem that the dishes need to be done on using dishes. 30:50.866 --> 30:52.308 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're both exhausted and tired. 30:53.992 --> 30:54.433 [SPEAKER_00]: that's it. 30:54.933 --> 30:58.696 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're looking across a line at your partner, there are only two options. 30:58.756 --> 30:59.637 [SPEAKER_00]: You do it or they do it. 30:59.717 --> 31:00.078 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. 31:00.258 --> 31:00.598 [SPEAKER_00]: We're done. 31:01.179 --> 31:10.246 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're looking up at a problem together, the problem is out there, we're over here, a whole world of options opens up. 31:11.100 --> 31:14.823 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, whole world of, can you bring it outside resources at cleaning service? 31:15.423 --> 31:18.606 [SPEAKER_00]: A neighbor, a family member, a different system altogether. 31:18.866 --> 31:20.027 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you only have paper plates. 31:20.087 --> 31:22.709 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it's bad for the environment, but you just throw them away at the end of the meal. 31:22.869 --> 31:23.270 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 31:23.810 --> 31:26.152 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you take something off the plate entirely? 31:26.612 --> 31:29.435 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe the dishes don't need to be done every single night. 31:30.195 --> 31:31.316 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, I'm making stuff up. 31:31.797 --> 31:34.459 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you order in twice a week and everyone gets a break. 31:34.799 --> 31:38.722 [SPEAKER_00]: maybe going out with friends this Saturday isn't the hill to die on, whatever it is, right? 31:39.143 --> 31:45.027 [SPEAKER_00]: The shift from the line to the triangle, it's not just, it's not about being practical, it's emotional. 31:45.388 --> 31:53.815 [SPEAKER_00]: When you stop treating your partner as the obstacle and start treating the problem as the obstacle, the entire energy of the conversation changes. 31:54.195 --> 31:59.940 [SPEAKER_00]: You're on the same team again, and that's when real solutions actually become possible. 32:00.100 --> 32:01.021 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, a healthy, 32:01.902 --> 32:08.818 [SPEAKER_00]: equitable, wonderful, thinking together, solutions, and I do want to acknowledge something here. 32:12.153 --> 32:17.195 [SPEAKER_00]: Often, sometimes often, always, whatever word you want there, things are genuinely unequal. 32:17.415 --> 32:20.117 [SPEAKER_00]: Not in the moment to moment away, but structurally, right? 32:20.757 --> 32:23.898 [SPEAKER_00]: One partner is carrying significantly more of the household management. 32:24.399 --> 32:27.840 [SPEAKER_00]: One partner's career has been systematically depirurized. 32:28.360 --> 32:31.562 [SPEAKER_00]: One person's emotional labor is invisible and unacknowledged, okay? 32:32.342 --> 32:47.393 [SPEAKER_00]: The research consistently shows that that perceived inequity and household labor and emotional work is absolutely associated with lower relationships satisfaction and higher rates of divorce of, you know, people breaking up. 32:49.654 --> 32:50.455 [SPEAKER_00]: This is real. 32:50.515 --> 32:52.036 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not asking you to pretend it's not. 32:52.537 --> 32:52.857 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 32:54.497 --> 32:56.942 [SPEAKER_00]: And here's the question I hear a lot when I get to this point. 32:57.263 --> 33:02.414 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, Abby, so if I stop keeping score and stop demanding fairness, does that mean I just have to do everything? 33:03.007 --> 33:04.887 [SPEAKER_00]: No, absolutely not. 33:05.027 --> 33:08.948 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's how you actually divide things without it turning into a competition. 33:09.328 --> 33:21.350 [SPEAKER_00]: What I'm asking you to do is approach the conversation differently because the fairness argument, as satisfying as a feels, again, it never almost never produces long-term change. 33:21.911 --> 33:29.452 [SPEAKER_00]: What it produces, you know, because you've been there, defensiveness, counter accusations, or what about what you, I did, what about what you did, right? 33:30.092 --> 33:38.459 [SPEAKER_00]: deeper entrenchment on both sides, if something is genuinely unsustainable for you, here's what works, okay? 33:38.720 --> 33:39.220 [SPEAKER_00]: Here's what you do. 33:39.761 --> 33:40.641 [SPEAKER_00]: You name what you need. 33:41.662 --> 33:43.124 [SPEAKER_00]: Not what they're failing to do. 33:44.285 --> 33:46.487 [SPEAKER_00]: I need more support with morning routines. 33:46.967 --> 33:51.351 [SPEAKER_00]: Lans differently than you never help in the morning, or you need to do x, y and z in the morning. 33:52.955 --> 33:55.117 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, and don't think about it on the line. 33:55.197 --> 34:00.461 [SPEAKER_00]: I need more help with morning routines, isn't the subtext, isn't, and that means you need to do more. 34:00.982 --> 34:06.286 [SPEAKER_00]: The subtext is I need us to figure out together how to figure out the morning better. 34:07.227 --> 34:11.791 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, up the triangle, up to the top of the triangle, not along the line, get out of the line. 34:13.533 --> 34:19.538 [SPEAKER_00]: Get specific about what would actually help, not a general complaint, but a concrete request, also helps. 34:21.149 --> 34:22.971 [SPEAKER_00]: Like that, like I need more help in the mornings. 34:23.071 --> 34:24.292 [SPEAKER_00]: I need to figure out the morning routine. 34:24.373 --> 34:25.634 [SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it alone anymore. 34:26.935 --> 34:27.916 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know what that means. 34:27.996 --> 34:29.277 [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't come up with anything yet. 34:29.297 --> 34:29.638 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't know. 34:31.237 --> 34:38.780 [SPEAKER_00]: Then, I always want you to look for ways to add resources to the system rather than just reassigning tasks, right? 34:39.300 --> 34:40.581 [SPEAKER_00]: So, can you hire help? 34:41.141 --> 34:42.682 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you simplify something? 34:42.902 --> 34:45.583 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, in the system, can you let something go? 34:45.603 --> 34:48.684 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, like, do the dishes have to be done every night? 34:48.784 --> 34:49.665 [SPEAKER_00]: Can you let it go? 34:49.685 --> 34:50.705 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, what? 34:51.165 --> 34:59.529 [SPEAKER_00]: When you're stuck fighting over who mopped the floor, sometimes the right answer is to find a way neither of you has to mop the floor, okay? 35:02.348 --> 35:09.172 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I want you to have the harder conversation about equity directly, not through accumulating grievances, okay? 35:10.633 --> 35:18.918 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's something like, um, I've been feeling like we're not operating as equal partners, and I want us to talk about it. 35:19.138 --> 35:23.341 [SPEAKER_00]: Is that's obviously a much more productive opening than a list of evidence. 35:23.361 --> 35:25.062 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not doing this, this or this, right? 35:25.983 --> 35:26.223 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 35:26.780 --> 35:35.326 [SPEAKER_00]: Now the other thing I want to talk about is this idea because it goes right into fairness is this idea of right or wrong, or is this just preferences? 35:37.847 --> 35:47.094 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a really, again, change your life tool, I think, when you change your perspective on this because I think this is one of the most overlooked pieces of all of what I'm talking about. 35:47.614 --> 35:52.657 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of what we fight about as unfair isn't actually unfair. 35:53.318 --> 35:54.078 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, um, 35:55.179 --> 35:55.799 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just different. 35:56.440 --> 36:00.682 [SPEAKER_00]: And we've confused our preferences with the correct way to do things. 36:01.002 --> 36:02.542 [SPEAKER_00]: So like let's take cleaning. 36:03.423 --> 36:05.204 [SPEAKER_00]: Your partner wipes down the counter after dinner. 36:05.784 --> 36:14.388 [SPEAKER_00]: You look at it in your furious because there's still two sticky spots, you know, from the peanut butter jelly sandwich you made earlier for one of your kids, right? 36:14.448 --> 36:16.289 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a sticky jelly spot, couple of them. 36:17.689 --> 36:18.550 [SPEAKER_00]: You might even think 36:20.032 --> 36:25.678 [SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, the term that why you're all the time weaponized and confidence right you're you're really you're going there. 36:25.698 --> 36:25.999 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 36:26.019 --> 36:29.222 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that never happens, but I'm saying let's pull back. 36:29.262 --> 36:29.983 [SPEAKER_00]: Give me a minute here. 36:31.164 --> 36:31.725 [SPEAKER_00]: But what if. 36:32.332 --> 36:34.773 [SPEAKER_00]: It, that's simply their version of clean enough. 36:35.093 --> 36:39.355 [SPEAKER_00]: Not wrong, not lazy, just a different standard. 36:39.955 --> 36:45.118 [SPEAKER_00]: And before you, I hear you right now, but Abby, you're gonna insist your standard is the right one. 36:45.678 --> 36:46.678 [SPEAKER_00]: I want you to think about this. 36:47.279 --> 36:52.781 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone else might say, a counter isn't clean unless you use bleach disinfectant, okay? 36:53.161 --> 36:58.464 [SPEAKER_00]: Another person mobs the floor every night on their hands and gets on their hands and needs and gets on the corner. 37:02.245 --> 37:03.346 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make you wrong? 37:03.787 --> 37:05.068 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make you unclean? 37:05.168 --> 37:09.493 [SPEAKER_00]: Does that make, or does it just make you someone with a different preference? 37:10.194 --> 37:11.935 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, mop in the floor, it's enough. 37:11.976 --> 37:13.597 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't need to get in every corner every time. 37:13.617 --> 37:14.498 [SPEAKER_00]: I do that once a month. 37:15.039 --> 37:17.281 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone else is gonna go, oh my god, that's disgusting. 37:17.301 --> 37:18.002 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you know what happens? 37:18.022 --> 37:19.584 [SPEAKER_00]: And you have a dog, oh, there's hair. 37:19.984 --> 37:20.344 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 37:21.675 --> 37:26.317 [SPEAKER_00]: It's, there's no universally correct way to load the dishwasher. 37:26.637 --> 37:27.717 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, tines up. 37:27.897 --> 37:30.878 [SPEAKER_00]: I think it too, but Gary likes tines down. 37:31.018 --> 37:31.759 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what to tell you. 37:32.019 --> 37:37.801 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no objectively right way to fold the laundry or to make a bed or organize a pantry. 37:38.181 --> 37:40.782 [SPEAKER_00]: There's your way and there's another way. 37:41.142 --> 37:41.542 [SPEAKER_00]: That's it. 37:43.222 --> 37:44.683 [SPEAKER_00]: Their way is one way your ways. 37:44.803 --> 37:45.863 [SPEAKER_00]: Those are preferences. 37:46.263 --> 37:47.044 [SPEAKER_00]: I know. 37:48.151 --> 37:51.934 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you're thinking, but there is, there's not someone, and this is like the fairness thing, right? 37:52.255 --> 38:09.289 [SPEAKER_00]: Someone else will come in and say something else, this matters be for fairness because so much of the scorekeeping and relationships is actually about enforcing our preferences on our partners and then resenting them for not sharing them, right? 38:10.372 --> 38:13.733 [SPEAKER_00]: So like maybe you like the house picked up before bed and they don't care. 38:14.393 --> 38:15.373 [SPEAKER_00]: Neither views right. 38:15.593 --> 38:16.553 [SPEAKER_00]: You have a preference. 38:17.354 --> 38:20.894 [SPEAKER_00]: You think responding to texts within an hour is basic courtesy. 38:21.494 --> 38:23.015 [SPEAKER_00]: They check their phone twice a day. 38:23.275 --> 38:24.935 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, neither view is wrong. 38:24.975 --> 38:26.095 [SPEAKER_00]: You have different preferences. 38:26.656 --> 38:29.336 [SPEAKER_00]: You want to talk about a problem the moment it comes up. 38:29.856 --> 38:32.237 [SPEAKER_00]: They need to process first and come back to it. 38:32.657 --> 38:35.097 [SPEAKER_00]: Both are valid ways of handling conflict. 38:35.658 --> 38:37.118 [SPEAKER_00]: When you start asking, 38:37.598 --> 38:43.964 [SPEAKER_00]: is this actually wrong or is this just different from how I do it or how I'd like it to be? 38:44.404 --> 38:48.008 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll be amazed at how many fairness arguments completely dissolve. 38:48.368 --> 38:49.129 [SPEAKER_00]: Completely dissolve. 38:49.729 --> 38:55.875 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have a strong preference that something needs to be done a specific way, you got two options. 38:55.935 --> 38:58.117 [SPEAKER_00]: As far as I'm concerned, you can do it yourself. 38:59.712 --> 39:01.695 [SPEAKER_00]: or hire someone who will do it your way. 39:02.115 --> 39:08.424 [SPEAKER_00]: What you can't do is hand it to someone else and then grade them on your rubric, on doing it your way. 39:10.579 --> 39:19.882 [SPEAKER_00]: I know, I can hear your thoughts, this doesn't mean you can't have standards or conversations about how things get done in your shared life. 39:20.062 --> 39:30.985 [SPEAKER_00]: You absolutely can, but those conversations go a lot better when you walk in knowing that you have a preference, not a monopoly on frigging correctness, okay? 39:31.645 --> 39:32.165 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not. 39:32.605 --> 39:33.325 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry. 39:33.485 --> 39:34.145 [SPEAKER_00]: You're not. 39:34.846 --> 39:39.327 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you think, but, oh, come on, clean the jelly off the counter, I'm telling you. 39:40.147 --> 39:43.417 [SPEAKER_00]: People are different with what they focus on. 39:44.458 --> 39:53.705 [SPEAKER_00]: And you know that because there's other things, the same partner who didn't clean up the jelly maybe is crazy at their desk and it's like perfectly pristine and you're like, see, they do care about clean. 39:54.126 --> 39:55.527 [SPEAKER_00]: They just don't care about what I care. 39:55.627 --> 40:03.273 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I'm telling you, they care, they to them a clean desk means something different than a clean counter. 40:03.834 --> 40:05.875 [SPEAKER_00]: They, it doesn't make it wrong or right. 40:05.995 --> 40:10.999 [SPEAKER_00]: You start to think it's, there's like a broad brush stroke 40:14.242 --> 40:15.003 [SPEAKER_00]: they've got to stop it. 40:15.883 --> 40:18.766 [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to wrap up and here's what I want you to take away today. 40:19.807 --> 40:22.970 [SPEAKER_00]: Whole bunch of things and I want to talk about the free download and the therapy to go bundle. 40:24.502 --> 40:28.744 [SPEAKER_00]: Fairness is a feeling your brain generates when it senses a threat, okay? 40:29.245 --> 40:35.829 [SPEAKER_00]: It's real in it matters, but the fairness framework, the score keeping, the tracking, the why do I have to change first logic? 40:36.389 --> 40:45.654 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what keeps you locked in competition with the person you're supposed to be partnered with or with your mom or with your kid or whoever it is, you're supposed to be partnered with them. 40:46.215 --> 40:49.977 [SPEAKER_00]: Your relationship doesn't have two scorecard, it has one account. 40:50.617 --> 40:52.619 [SPEAKER_00]: and you're both drawing from that one account. 40:53.179 --> 40:58.003 [SPEAKER_00]: When you stop asking, is this fair and start asking, what do I need? 40:58.884 --> 41:00.485 [SPEAKER_00]: And what does this team need? 41:00.985 --> 41:02.426 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you, everything changes. 41:03.267 --> 41:05.189 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, not overnight, but it changes. 41:05.369 --> 41:09.132 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're the one in the most pain right now, the one has been doing, 41:09.992 --> 41:14.736 [SPEAKER_00]: more and feeling unseen and wondering why you have to go first, I know I love you. 41:14.877 --> 41:23.464 [SPEAKER_00]: I know it feels deeply unfair and you still get to choose whether you want to keep waiting for circumstances to change or whether you want to be the one who changes them. 41:23.504 --> 41:24.285 [SPEAKER_00]: You get to do that. 41:24.985 --> 41:28.668 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, the one in the most pain always has the most to gain. 41:29.369 --> 41:30.510 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what I will tell you about that. 41:31.519 --> 41:31.759 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 41:32.099 --> 41:35.080 [SPEAKER_00]: So the free download for today is the fairness reframe. 41:35.180 --> 41:38.560 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the, you know, the one question that stops resentment before it starts. 41:38.660 --> 41:42.701 [SPEAKER_00]: It's the whole thing I've been talking about and it's it's a free download. 41:42.741 --> 41:48.102 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to really help you get better at that question and it's like a little worksheet to help you get through it. 41:48.722 --> 41:55.344 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, if you, if this has been the episode where you're like Abby is talking to me or where you've been arguing with me in your head the whole time. 41:55.584 --> 41:56.644 [SPEAKER_00]: I know you have it's okay. 41:56.664 --> 41:57.024 [SPEAKER_00]: I love you. 41:58.304 --> 42:15.190 [SPEAKER_00]: If fairness is a big issue for you, and you want to go deeper with tools that will help you change how you think and feel and act for good, like really make some changes, I'm going to highly, highly suggest you get this week's therapy to go bundle, and it's, it's 10 bucks, it's all it is, and it's got a bunch in it. 42:15.350 --> 42:17.011 [SPEAKER_00]: So it always comes with the free download. 42:18.067 --> 42:22.269 [SPEAKER_00]: and the blog article, if you, you know, so you can refer to that. 42:23.029 --> 42:25.270 [SPEAKER_00]: But it also has the following. 42:25.410 --> 42:32.372 [SPEAKER_00]: It has the score keeping self audit, you know, where your brain is telling you what you don't realize you're telling, right? 42:32.412 --> 42:34.633 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like a little self audit there to help you do it. 42:35.233 --> 42:42.056 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a triangle conversation worksheet where you can go from like me versus you to us versus the problem kind of thing, help you walk through that. 42:43.236 --> 42:45.717 [SPEAKER_00]: There's there's the scripts for your needs. 42:46.798 --> 42:57.740 [SPEAKER_00]: right, like scripts for having like a needs-based conversation, you're going to replace that fairness argument with what you actually need, okay? 42:58.500 --> 43:03.741 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I have journaling prompts where you're, you know, where does this fairness story start, okay? 43:03.861 --> 43:07.062 [SPEAKER_00]: So these are prompts meant to uncover the origin of your scorekeeping. 43:07.942 --> 43:11.202 [SPEAKER_00]: Then there's a, what I'm calling the bird's 43:14.563 --> 43:17.686 [SPEAKER_00]: where scorekeeping shows up across every relationship in your life. 43:17.746 --> 43:20.188 [SPEAKER_00]: So all of that for $10. 43:20.288 --> 43:22.851 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is great to do the work with your therapist. 43:22.871 --> 43:24.332 [SPEAKER_00]: This is great to do the work on your own. 43:25.253 --> 43:26.734 [SPEAKER_00]: It's again, therapy to go. 43:27.495 --> 43:31.758 [SPEAKER_00]: And you can get that again under or the free download under the video. 43:31.919 --> 43:35.342 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're watching YouTube or on the website, just go to the episode. 43:35.382 --> 43:37.724 [SPEAKER_00]: And you'll find the blog and the article. 43:37.824 --> 43:39.385 [SPEAKER_00]: And you'll all the links are there. 43:39.545 --> 43:40.126 [SPEAKER_00]: All the goods. 43:40.266 --> 43:41.147 [SPEAKER_00]: Everything is there for you. 43:42.119 --> 43:43.822 [SPEAKER_00]: Whew, that is it for today. 43:43.842 --> 43:47.407 [SPEAKER_00]: I think this is one of the most important episodes I've ever done. 43:47.427 --> 43:49.430 [SPEAKER_00]: I know we're getting close to the end of season eight. 43:49.651 --> 43:56.982 [SPEAKER_00]: And I really just implore you to please think about really changing your life. 43:57.623 --> 44:06.185 [SPEAKER_00]: When you change this idea of the competition and the fairness, you're going to be so much happier and have so much more peace if you can let go of being right. 44:06.885 --> 44:08.226 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to be correct or effective? 44:08.266 --> 44:09.426 [SPEAKER_00]: What do I always say, right? 44:10.186 --> 44:11.426 [SPEAKER_00]: This is how you get effective. 44:11.446 --> 44:13.587 [SPEAKER_00]: This is how you think differently about your world. 44:13.767 --> 44:16.107 [SPEAKER_00]: So why do I do all this? 44:16.287 --> 44:20.488 [SPEAKER_00]: Why do I do all this to help you feel happier and more fulfilled? 44:21.069 --> 44:25.850 [SPEAKER_00]: And then you're going to be that way with your kids and your friends and with your coworkers and your family. 44:27.370 --> 44:29.271 [SPEAKER_00]: That's what we're gonna have, and that's what I'm looking to do. 44:30.172 --> 44:30.452 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 44:30.973 --> 44:32.454 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I love you. 44:33.054 --> 44:36.576 [SPEAKER_00]: No one told you this week, you are loveable, you are worth all this, you really, really are. 44:36.597 --> 44:39.178 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no reason not to do this work. 44:39.799 --> 44:43.822 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, there's no reason not to be more satisfying in a piece in your life. 44:43.922 --> 44:44.902 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's make it happen. 44:45.223 --> 44:47.484 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, have an amazing week, and I'll talk to you. 44:47.664 --> 44:48.045 [SPEAKER_00]: They'll soon. 44:48.825 --> 44:51.147 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for spending time with me today. 44:51.487 --> 44:56.290 [SPEAKER_00]: If you're loving what you're learning here, come join my one love collective. 44:56.470 --> 44:57.851 [SPEAKER_00]: It's my private community. 44:58.232 --> 45:00.993 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll be take these conversations even deeper. 45:01.414 --> 45:04.076 [SPEAKER_00]: You'll get a ton of bonus content. 45:04.436 --> 45:05.977 [SPEAKER_00]: Live Q&As with me. 45:06.577 --> 45:14.143 [SPEAKER_00]: Guided visualizations, journaling prompts, scripts, and an incredible community of like-minded people. 45:14.323 --> 45:17.285 [SPEAKER_00]: Ready to support you as you create more ease and joy. 45:17.785 --> 45:19.048 [SPEAKER_00]: in all your relationships. 45:19.610 --> 45:23.700 [SPEAKER_00]: It's all waiting for you at AppieMedKev.com or right on Substack. 45:24.181 --> 45:24.923 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next week.