[SPEAKER_01]: someone like Ariana Grande who theoretically has all the ability to get help that she needs is still being failed by the systems around her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I sometimes think that it's because there are a lot of people that still don't see eating disorders as being mental illnesses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: because thinness is so celebrated and upheld as being like such an achievement and an accomplishment and something that we celebrate and congratulate people on that people don't there's like some disconnect in their brains where they're like oh there's there's isn't a mental illness this is something that we're going to get people their flowers for.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's up you guys and welcome back to emotionally online the weekly sor party for heart to hearts and hot gossip posted by yours truly The one and only Maddie draw speck co-hosted back back back again You guys are cowering in the corner.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's gonna be It's the one the only
[SPEAKER_00]: Meg, Rua-ko, the co-host with the co-mo!
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there it is!
[SPEAKER_00]: And to all of our video viewers, you may be noticing something new, something new and awesome and different.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's that we've got merch, baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right now, I'm sporting the Levergirls Worldwide T. And we've both got on the I-only date Sweet Hearts Camo Trucker hats.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a Levergirl University crew neck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is some pump cast merch as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely go check it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Got to be linked in the description of this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it'll be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wrap the show, wrap the show, show your love to us and we'll show it back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I got a new squishy, I'm proud to report it, it looks so gross.
[SPEAKER_00]: Guess what it used to be, she's, she's used to be one of these viral cheese squishies because I did destroy the butter one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it literally got like ripped apart.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was gonna say I actually haven't seen it around your apartment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, it's gone, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I ruined it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I got the cheese one and this one's a little bit more durable than the butter one, but it is so nasty disgusting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Were you into slime in video form?
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried to make it once, and it went so wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: How?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know how to describe you how wrong it went.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, wet?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll add in a clip.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Imagine if Squidward's nose, like, multiplied, and you could whip it around in your hands, like, like, none chucks almost.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sounds vaguely sexual.
[SPEAKER_00]: It, it, it, it was really weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: Slime is clearly not an activity for me, but I do love watching the videos of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've thought on multiple occasions about buying slime, but then I was like, you're 29.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are 29 years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot buy slime, but you can buy cheese.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I can buy cheese.
[SPEAKER_00]: This one seems a little bit more like Reason of both to me somehow tactile.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like, you know, it's stressful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't have those.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, adults don't usually keep like desk slime.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but I'm not that we could not bring that about, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we could all start getting desk slime
[SPEAKER_00]: this is kind of hybrid desk slime stress ball right in that right in the middle is cheese the desk cheese is desk cheese the problem with it though is it doesn't go back to its original shape so now it just looks like you know that picture of that blob with the face on it yeah that's what it looks like now and it's covered in cat hair it's gross it really is quite gross yeah but it's it's helping me that's good are you sure you don't
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll see how I feel then.
[SPEAKER_01]: So love Island has started or have you ever watched Love Island?
[SPEAKER_01]: I was big into Love Island during COVID for many years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, not even in Love Island.
[SPEAKER_00]: How what seasons did you see?
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe all of Love Island UK up until maybe like season seven.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched it for a while and then I kind of lost fell off a little bit and then well, you've seen a lot of the great ones.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you've you've done the work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Love Island season two I maintain is one of the best seasons of reality.
[SPEAKER_01]: First version.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, known to man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Five is my favorite.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a great one as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, God.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love Curtis Purchard.
[SPEAKER_00]: That guy is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I made him
[SPEAKER_01]: like just broy online now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that his whole thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: I know he's like online.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Curtis's Anton is more the one that Anta brings to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like one of those fitness people now, but he made an awesome post during all stars where he was talking about a women's the phases of a woman's menstrual cycle and compared each cycle to one of his ex-girlfriends.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was truly one of the like worst posts I've ever seen, but he posted it so earnestly as like an infographic But it was so disrespectful.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like this one is the luteal face Like that's bananas because one of his exes was on all stars of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I believe well wow manner amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: the things that they do online and the things that they're willing to show and talk about is just so fascinating to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really beautiful.
[SPEAKER_00]: But so I've been deep in watching the ongoing season of UK and every time I watch the show, I just I have so many questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: about logistically, like how you just share a room with 12 people for like two straight months.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think about like even sharing a room with someone for a week, I start to be like, I need some time and space to myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And more specifically, I thought, I,
[SPEAKER_00]: not being able to escape a man specifically to be with other women is one thing to not be able to escape a man and like rip a fart yeah seems horrible yeah what are they doing in love island right how do they be be farting they like probably just don't also they don't have a lot of bathrooms
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we have like two bathrooms on love island.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy to me as someone who's also like kind of a shy pooper Right, I'm such a shy pooper me too and like I Which is a really bad combination when you're also someone who be pooping.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like constipation and I have never known each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, not once.
[SPEAKER_01]: No
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm like such a shy pooper and I, I fear that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like, I even, I had an experience this past week, Braggler, where someone was sleeping in my bed for a night.
[SPEAKER_01]: And even that, I woke up in the middle of the night and I was like, I have to fart and I will be going into the other room to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But even like, I'm in the other room thinking they can hear me from the other room.
[SPEAKER_00]: I literally, oh no, I was listening for them snoring.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to, I like, I was like actively listening being like, okay, they're snoring, go.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I'm literally, I'm not kidding.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I have multiple points, I've been like, if I have to fart in the night, I'm gonna get up and like go walk to the trash.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, fall and do it over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm like, I just can't do it if they're here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like not.
[SPEAKER_00]: It really, it makes me feel such an intense amount of shame at you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't even explain it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, you shouldn't know me like this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's too intimate.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's way too intimate.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually have a story about this that I don't think I'm earlier shared with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm so excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: My senior year of high school, I was no.
[SPEAKER_01]: My junior year of high school, I was in the Illinois state choir event, which basically meant that you auditioned to make it to the state choir.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you would go and rehearse songs for like nine hours a day for four days and then at the end of all of that, you would have this like big concert.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was like hundreds of kids from all over the state who would perform in this concert.
[SPEAKER_01]: And every year, a few of us from my school would make it in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was me, one other girl, and a girl who's like my best friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the three of us were staying in, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Pioria's finest, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: Pioria's finest, Maria.
[SPEAKER_01]: Residents in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And no shade, no tea to this girl, because this was high school and it was ages ago, and I'm sure she's a lovely person now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Back in high school, I felt so deeply uncomfortable around her.
[SPEAKER_01]: we were just kind of ops a little bit and she was just a very she just had a very like uncomfortable presence and so I did not poop for four straight days.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god because the door was so thin to the bathroom and I could like see and it was also like a frosted glass so I could like see people walking past the door and
[SPEAKER_01]: could not put for four days on the fourth day I was in like our final rehearsal for this concert that we were putting on and I felt a rumble in my stomach and there were again 600 kids in this choir and I want to say and you were not supposed to leave except during designated breaks oh my god and I was like sitting kind of towards the back and I was just like
[SPEAKER_01]: it's now or never.
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually it's only now because it's happening right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's happening and I have to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I tell you that I went into the depths of whatever like municipal building that we were in to find the bathroom that was furthest away from the hundreds of kids that were singing so close to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: To me what a danger it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what a danger it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll tell you this did not flush.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, no, it did not flush and I took one look at it and I went That is not my business.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just left
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I listen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I would have done the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I didn't even blame you for it Yeah, like I come Lee under state.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like so traumatized from the past like 72 plus hours that I was just like I have to
[SPEAKER_01]: get out of here.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: So beautiful.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love when you can just acknowledge this before you go on a trip with someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like Ashley knows that when we go on trips together.
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes me feel so much better if she'll just go on the balcony while I have to go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like it's not about you.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's like, I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I care if you like rip the biggest farts when you're in there possible and I go it's not about that I know that you don't care in your organization.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I can't my body won't let me just to the fullest You know like it'll let me do it like 40% yes, and the 60% will still be inside my body It's and I just carry you to round with me throughout the day like I need you to leave So I can fully release completely I would just tell after a while I would just tell my family.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would just be like go downstairs
[SPEAKER_01]: Please leave.
[SPEAKER_01]: It will be so much quicker if you just get out of here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a fast pooper Right, you leave me alone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am so quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you were not here If you're not here, I'll be done in 30 seconds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but if you're here, not gonna
[SPEAKER_00]: happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like I can't imagine just like having even the smallest amount of a stomach issue and having to put on these teeny tiny bikinis that they make you wear and love island.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well and they eat crazy style on that show.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like what if you blow of the bathroom and then what you're putting on your thong bikinis right afterwards and like strutting outside to like shake your ass and like pretend you're in a grocery store or something
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll go put back on your bikinis and be normal for the rest of the month.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got a smell crazy in that villa.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: No shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I wish that they would include some of that because I want to know like which one of because obviously the men are way worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, by default.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to know which one is like known as the stinky guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: who's known as the little stinker.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's little stinky guy over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Classic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you know it also affects their hotness.
[SPEAKER_01]: Complete.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, someone could be really hot, but they could smell like shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I wonder if like any time you've seen somebody on Love Island that's like, they're attractive by all means, but they're just like not clicking with the people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes I'm like, is it a smell thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are the odds he's just stinkin'?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is he just stinky?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what's the other option?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that's such a like a body prude or something that like if someone's got a little odor or something like that's fine You know we're all people and like right You see sometimes you just gotta be at the end of the day It's not out do you're gonna take like five billion showers right we're all wearing sunscreen all the time like a normal amount of that Yeah, there's like the normal amount of like it's the end of the day and it's 90 degrees out and we've all been sweating Yeah, and then there's like oh, this is a problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like smell this isn't okay
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just can't imagine that anyone is prepared to be as hygienic as you need to be when you are in a room with 14 other people at any given time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, it's like, it's such a unique situation when you're like, you're in the early stages of dating, but you're not separating ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The chance to get the egg.
[SPEAKER_00]: is so much higher so quick because there's like, you have to be like, I don't know, these people are thinking about appealing to other people constantly for two straight months.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would drive me insane.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really don't think I could last a week.
[SPEAKER_01]: know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would drive me absolutely insane.
[SPEAKER_01]: It falls under the category that my friends and I call too much birthday, which is you spend too much time with somebody at the beginning of dating them and then too quickly like a good thing becomes a bad thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like they basically are like too much birthing to the max in love island completely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also believe that love island is just like a reimagined stamp or prison experiment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why people sign up to go on love island.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to jail.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're signing up to go to jail.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do crazy things on that show.
[SPEAKER_00]: They are torturing you.
[SPEAKER_01]: They put them in a little box and do experiments on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why anyone would sign up for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It really scares me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when I think
[SPEAKER_00]: about going on reality TV.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, there's a lot of reality TV that I would do.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's I wouldn't go on a competition show.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Unless I thought about for a while, I was like, I think it'd be awesome on the circle.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's literally the only competition show that I've ever seen that I was like, I think I would be good at this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm like notoriously bad at competition because if I'm not coming in first then I like rage quit and I'm like I get pissed and I'm like enough I don't even care about this stupid shit But like yeah, I just can't imagine I can't imagine also I mean love island just combines a few of our least favorite things which is like
[SPEAKER_01]: having to perform and being so sweaty all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Though worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just like the worst combination of everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, how come none of them ever get an extreme sunburn on Love Island?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how much sunscreen are they putting on at any given time?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it doesn't seem like a lot?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, I'm like,
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing is like, when you burn easily, it like doesn't pick much.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can be lathered in sunscreen every 20 minutes and you'll still burn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It like it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: It sincerely.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could be perfect about it and I will still have like a little bit of burn somewhere in my body.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: None of y'all were pale.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no pale bitches on the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if fake tan hides it easier?
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the only thing I've ever seen someone get like burnt badly burnt I'm assuming they have like a Wrangler to be on top of everyone But still I imagine because I think in the earlier seasons I saw people get burnt more than in later seasons
[SPEAKER_00]: So I imagine it was something where it's like, you guys got this and then after a while they were like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes I will see people being like, oh, like put a plus size person on Leviland, and I'm like, no, don't I leave us out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, the world isn't ready for it and I like I'm being honest the only way like I would like to see it in a hypothetical world where it could be showcased and never once brought up
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't want to see a big girl on a dating show just for it to be a center point of conversation and how she's getting to know other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to see like big bitches on dating shows where their size is never once addressed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But even then, the audience could not be fucking normal about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And never.
[SPEAKER_00]: So even if you had a cast full of normal people, the audience would ruin how beautiful and wonderful that was every goddamn time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Agreed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So for that, I say, leave my bitches out of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Leave my bitches out of this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's like if you're watching, if anyone has watched off-campus, the main actress on off-campus, I've seen people on the internet call her plus size, which is fucking crazy.
[SPEAKER_01]: that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's literally it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's so annoying.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like so early 2000's.
[SPEAKER_00]: So early.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember when I was a kid people saying that, um, yeah, if you had big tits, you could never be skinny.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm like y'all are just jealous.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like 2009.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, my y'all are just jealous because she has no controls and you don't totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's fine, been there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have experienced that jealousy in my time as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, we just have to appreciate what we were born with.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, but no, that's the thing is it's like, if they're calling that lovely tiny little woman plus size, just because she has big tits and they like cannot register that with their eyes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Keep our big bitches safe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep our big bitches safe.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep them out of the Mayorka prison experiment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do not put them in the Mayorka prison experiment.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, not at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: That show is for people that I want to point and laugh at.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would never point and laugh at one of my bitches.
[SPEAKER_01]: Never.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's also part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I'm only rooting for for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm not rooting for the people on the Bible.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to root for reality TV stars.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, it's like the whole, the heat thing, I can't do the heat.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was telling you about my experience in heat yesterday at a music festival.
[SPEAKER_01]: I almost died.
[SPEAKER_01]: I almost passed away.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to be dramatic, but I almost died until the same way every time I'm outside like in in the heat in the direct sunlight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I like I can't stress enough How I was not built for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not my body.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whoever built me whoever out there said this is what she gets these are her traits This is how her body is gonna react in certain circumstances.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was meant to survive Nuclear winter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, you know, I am made to survive
[SPEAKER_00]: in insane conditions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I made to be stuck in the Arctic for long periods of time without food.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm built for.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same.
[SPEAKER_00]: To survive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Heat outside desert.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm dying within 24 hours, I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was not meant to survive guv ball.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I was never meant to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not meant to.
[SPEAKER_01]: My body was not built to survive.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't even meant to go camping for one single weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: My body is meant for like clumping up and down like the Scottish moors, you know, like there's always a sort of light mist that's getting you know, it's like 52, you know, the sun's going down pretty slowly like 34 like that's what my body was made for.
[SPEAKER_00]: I I made for sitting under a big shaded tree with apples falling directly into my palm and I take one bite and then I roll it down Oh, that's another one falls and I take one bite and then I roll it down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the birds are chirping.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's gorgeous That's what I'm built for yeah, and there's no men
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's part of it, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just me and the apples.
[SPEAKER_00]: Me and my big apple tree.
[SPEAKER_00]: How involved are you in the Demelio family drama that's happening?
[SPEAKER_00]: Not at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you aware of it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Nope.
[SPEAKER_00]: This has been like really getting me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been deep in this Demelio family drama.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here are our players.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've of course got Charlie Demelio.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know where you'll love her.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the biggest TikTokers.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, we've got her sister, Dixie Demelio.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't hold it against me if I'm sad, just leave me there, let me be sad.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might know her from that hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: She actually had another song that I unironically listened to all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: That I sometimes forget about, and then I remember, and I'm like, fuck, that was kind of a banger, wasn't it?
[SPEAKER_00]: What, how did it go?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so one of your favorite, no, no, no, hold on, no hold on because the second I hear it is going to come back to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the beautiful part about music, right, is that you can forget us on the exists music is so amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the second I hear that beat, I'm going to go, oh, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: I know this song Jixie D'Amelio.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I remember it now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where is it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it gone?
[SPEAKER_00]: It was called real thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been looking for the real thing Only the real thing will do
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been looking for the real thing, only the real thing with you, do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we've got their parents, Heidi and Mark Demelio.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, family from Connecticut blew up because of Charlie and then Dixie as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dixie's the older sister.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, so here are our players.
[SPEAKER_00]: Charlie blew up in 2020.
[SPEAKER_00]: The family before then is not like a public figure type family though through my searching.
[SPEAKER_00]: in all of this recent drama I found out that her father ran for U.S. Senate in 2018 for the Republican party.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and very well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're shocked.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, who's shocked?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mark Demilio, we got you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the Demilio's had a Hulu reality show.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know this.
[SPEAKER_00]: 2022 or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: I of course watched it back when it was happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever's going on, trust that I'm there somehow.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it seemed like the big sort of conflict of the reality show was that like Charlie is like really struggling with fame and wasn't always feeling the most supported and was just yeah having a hard time in general, but the the emphasis is really on like their family unit rather than like Charlie as an individual star kind of Kardashian us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So time passes and people pick up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say end of last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Pick up on the fact that Charlie no longer follows either of her parents on Instagram.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whoa.
[SPEAKER_00]: So people were like, well, what happened?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were some type of fallout here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's been a lot of rumors going around about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Charlie has, of course, been on Broadway.
[SPEAKER_00]: She moved to New York.
[SPEAKER_00]: She seemed to be doing a lot better than she was when she was in like the LA TikTok scene of it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: Demoah posted, I want to say like last week, about these rumors that Charlie has gone no contact with her parents and that she's like completely, just like separate from them and they don't speak anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, we don't talk anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: And her father, Mark Demelio, went on live.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and spoke about it and also left some huge comment on the do more opposed about how Charlie's being manipulated and blah, blah, blah, but the the T the word on the street is that the reason she went no contact from her parents is because they stole millions of dollars from her accounts because of course she became famous when she was 16 years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess allegedly they may or may not have stolen millions of dollars from her.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you believe?
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that it's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know why I believe it's true because I think it's fucking weird when And this happened with Addison raise parents to her father is a Psycho, which I think people forget about that because that was more when Addison was in the TikTok space than she is like now is a Pop singer, but
[SPEAKER_00]: people who like your kid becomes famous on social media and then you as a parent decide to make your own account and start influencing and like your fucking 50s.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you are very weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there is something deeply strange about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if my parents one day were like,
[SPEAKER_00]: When they saw me doing well on social media, they just decided they were gonna start doing it till right I'd be like, but why though Yeah, you're like a hairdresser and a recruiter right there's no why the fuck are you doing this right I get just doesn't make any
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's something strange to me about like, uh, I don't know, imagining like your parents making social media accounts because your famous and then going on live stream and talking to the audience like they have fans.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for following the things we're supporting guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: We love you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're like doing brand deals and shit on their pages like it's just weird And it's not right there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, but I like I want to study I'm fascinated by these parents of social media stars that like clearly have a couple screws loose Yeah, and they make their own pages because I think that to me is like a signal of something bad about to happen Yeah near future.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah when somebody's parents starts getting in on their fame
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an offshoot of parents who capitalized off their children, like from a very young age too.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like I think about all those families that up and moved from California to Tennessee because they were much more relaxed child labor laws in Tennessee, so they were able to keep and retain more of their children's like money.
[SPEAKER_01]: and have more of a say over what their children did or did not have access to that in California.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like parents of child stars have always I think been a little freaky.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think about them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, like Mary Kate Nashley Olsen, like I'm fairly certain that they had like they ended up having to I think they may be amantimate emancipated themselves from their parents Because similarly, I believe they were Stealing money from them as well and
[SPEAKER_01]: This is just like a new wave of that and also like a wave where like there's there's so much less restriction around what parents can and cannot do when it comes to like their children's fame and fortune on social media and I agree it's like What in your brain makes you think that just because your child is offering something up on social media means that you have anything to offer up on social media
[SPEAKER_00]: what what is that in your in your noggin that makes you think that like why was Heidi Demilio on dancing with the stars that's really strange why that's really weird I just the whole thing is bizarre to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really bizarre because it's like
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just really pathetic.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like you're riding on the coattails of your child's success, yikes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mind you also your child's success, which is like being a TikTok star, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Which not to like bash TikTok stardom, but like,
[SPEAKER_01]: What are we, what is this foundation that we're building off of?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's mostly nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually love Charlie DiMilio though.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, Dixie DiMilio had that one song.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that one song.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, is that like, in general, most of these like TikTok stars like the hype house of it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at that house.
[SPEAKER_00]: Most of them are just like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Random kids that haven't had a phone at the right time right then you have a couple people that genuinely are talented I have been in Addison Ray truth or since day one totally and I do think that Charlie is genuinely a talented dancer
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm glad she got to be on Broadway, and she got to live her dream totally separate from the internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something that her parents couldn't get in on themselves, she seems to have built a separate life for herself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm happy for her, and it makes me sad to see weird parents being weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is one of those things where I remember when I was younger, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: At one point saying to my mom like why didn't like we all liked acting like why didn't you ever take us to like audition Commercial everything ever something goes radio adds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I about like auditioning for Disney channel Right, like mom.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, where are we doing?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd be perfect for this shit and I remember my mom being like no fucking shot I would ever expose you to that world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's just no way that I would ever bring you into that sphere because she was like regular
[SPEAKER_00]: you know and she was like I'm not gonna expose you the child to like this weird industry and like force you to perform labor you know yeah Mark said something in when he was talking about it on live I mean he seems like a true real weirdo yeah but he said something that made it seem like because in his calm that he left on the doom wall post he was like she's being manipulated by all these people and then when he was talking about it on the stream
[SPEAKER_00]: it sounded like she was getting like sound business advice from people who were approaching this from a way that like really put Charlie at the forefront and value her and like what she has created the money that she has made and her father sought more as like oh well that's like an emotionless way to approach it yeah this has been a family thing
[SPEAKER_00]: who do you think got her that phone?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you think?
[SPEAKER_00]: How's her during all of this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's it's the the entitlement to like, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, my child did something fantastic and I did the job that I was required to do that I signed up to do when I became a parent and now I think I deserve something special, yeah, because of it that I'm entitled to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's not seeing your child as like an individual person.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's seeing that them as an extension of you, right, which is so ego centric and narcissistic completely like that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wolf.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like what you bought her a phone like every other parent does so now you're entitled to four million dollars How about I pay you back for the phone you fucking weirdo?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right here's the 800 bucks for the phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah fuck yourself like what are we talking about the thought also of just
[SPEAKER_01]: exposing anyone underage to the internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always been like, I think that there needs to be a separate internet for teenagers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like teens, kids, pre-teens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we also, I just feel like we used to have so much more access to like children based
[SPEAKER_01]: Internet activities like I would go to fucking poptropica.com Totally and bounce around on there and learn about Egypt and like ancient Greece Yeah, but now everyone's using the same stuff and there are no restrictions against what anyone can use right Yeah, I think the Instagram age to sign up is like 13.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I feel sometimes conflicted about this stuff as someone who started making YouTube videos when I was 13.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I like look back on that time of my life and it like, I have nothing but positive memories and like.
[SPEAKER_00]: For sure, I was exposed to things that I probably shouldn't have been on a young age.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm thinking about being on chat roulette no megal and like seeing a date when I'm 12.
[SPEAKER_00]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like some guy just like masturbating to middle schoolers that are on chat roulette.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's fucked up.
[SPEAKER_00]: When people are like, if you're under 18, you shouldn't get any internet access.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I don't know if I'd go that far.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think you should be a different internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think teenagers should be able to talk to other teenagers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they should be able to beef with other teenagers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: to totally shield them from the world and from gossip and culture and, you know, bad things that are happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that that's helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like not even necessarily that like when you are, I mean, 13 is really young, but like if you're 16 or 17, it's not even that you can't handle the material that like say 20 somethings are talking about in like a current
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are weirdos on the internet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the rogue freaks that kind of ruin it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for that reason, I'm like, I just think there needs to be a separate internet for people under the age of 18.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't disagree.
[SPEAKER_01]: For the most part.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think at the very least, there should just be more outlets for kids and teens to have access to.
[SPEAKER_01]: That isn't like the CD.
[SPEAKER_01]: you know I'm like how do you yeah I don't know how you prevent a lot of it yeah but surely we can do more than we are well surely and I think this is just a product of like the internet boom around the early 2000s where they're just never were restrictions put in or guidelines or anything like that yeah it's just only expanded in the past 26 years you know
[SPEAKER_01]: people sending electronic mail in 1995 to now like you can have chat GPT create a video of like Trump ripping Putin's head off and then him being like America and like eating a cheeseburger Like what have we become?
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like I wrote there was like fucked up shit when we were younger to for sure and like I think fuck what was it called although like creepy pasta stuff or even like do you remember tiny chat
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah but barely what the hell was that it was like um it was almost like a zoom call but it was a live stream so you can have like eight people on camera and anybody could join so it was like people could be typing in the chat or they could be on camera and absolutely anyone could turn their camera on and we would do them all the time like being like the YouTube
[SPEAKER_00]: space at the time, be like all the music video YouTubers would be like on camera together, just chatting, and viewers would be watching and occasionally these random people would join and just like terrorize the group.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, but we thought it was funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember one time somebody came on and they farmed into a lighter
[SPEAKER_00]: and it, like, you know, had a little right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we were all losing our minds laughing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, there's, there's some part of those memories that is like charming and endearing to me now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like how truly lawless the internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, there's some nostalgia there for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I didn't feel that I was at risk in any of those scenarios.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just like almost like fart humor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the masturbating stuff is, and that's, it's sincerely gross.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's assault, unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I do think certainly there can be more, like, laws put in place to, like, protect.
[SPEAKER_01]: child labor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like to protect children who are being exploited by their parents, specifically on social media.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, it feels just like a new wave of, you know, someone sending their six year old to the coal mines and being like, well, if he dies, I've got eight more.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Whoa, like maybe don't do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe don't constantly have a camera and you're like two-year-old son's face and also be putting your two-year-old son's face on the internet for everyone to see all the time, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think that that's like to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like that is just another kind of like branch of child start on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's been well, I feel like kids under the age of 13 shouldn't be on the internet period.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's literally no reason for
[SPEAKER_00]: Like elementary schoolers to have access to the internet at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they should be on kid picks completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I just think it's, there's nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kid picks an alpha smile.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think teenagers is where it starts to get, there's a question mark for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But my question mark is they're, absolutely because I was a teenager that was very online.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it, like impacted my life in, in, insanely positive ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was also a different time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I was growing up, the internet was the only place I really found community and felt accepted and to be in high school and to feel like you don't really fit in or don't have your place and then to find it on the internet was so meaningful to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that's true for a lot of teenagers in finding community online.
[SPEAKER_00]: But under the age of 13, I can't think of a single solitary reason why the internet would be a place that you need to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also, and I mean, I could be completely off about this, but it does kind of feel more like the internet is more of a monoculture now than it was even.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, 15 years ago.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that those communities are still there, but are maybe harder to find.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they definitely are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so like that, I think young people definitely are searching for a community online and I completely understand that because it's like there's a way to connect to the entire world like right in your pocket.
[SPEAKER_01]: Why wouldn't you use that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, that said, I think it's also just like,
[SPEAKER_01]: It's easier and it's also like more sinister for like a 16 year old to just like go to chat GPT and be like I'm really sad.
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you help me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, rather than turning to like forums for Closeness and community which makes me feel ill.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really scary.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's scary to think about that kids have Access to to chat GPT and that they it has and will continue to influence like Child suicide rates.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's crazy to think about
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also think there's like a distinct difference between like a kid who's making YouTube videos when they're like 30, you know, 13 and up versus someone who like Achieve such massive global fame completely like 16 and then their parents are like, how do we monetize this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, 100% hate that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, it's like I think there's it's like you were kind of working through a craft and
[SPEAKER_01]: for the demelios, not saying it wasn't part in part because of like their skill or talent, but TikTok is also just up into something that's like a beast of its own.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if it starts as being, oh, Charlie loved to dance and everyone's dancing on TikTok.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now she is too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it turns into like, okay, and now she's suddenly the most followed person on like the internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: 16 years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: What do we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like how do we wrangle this in any capacity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really difficult question.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it sounds like her parents didn't handle it well at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or with any sort of thoughts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds like
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they may be just saw saw the money signs God some bear saying deeply embarrassing.
[SPEAKER_00]: They should be embarrassed But for in learning that he ran for Senate as a Republican.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not surprisingly capitalized off of that We must make capital I Need to talk about Ariana Grande
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is a very delicate topic.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a very delicate topic.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would like to approach it with such, yes, delicacy caution, what I have to say is more about the discourse online and how other people are handling this kind of back and forth that's happening in the comment section.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and a little bit about Ariana herself.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I, it is really distressing to me to see in these comment sections how people are allergic to any kind of nuance or having like holding multiple things to be true at once.
[SPEAKER_00]: anyone can and does experience body critique analysis from other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, that's not something that's exclusive to celebrities.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, the suggestion that we don't comment on other people's bodies is a great standard most of the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: However,
[SPEAKER_00]: when people try to shut down the conversation about how Hollywood is shrinking before our eyes and it's scary and concerning, they try to shut down that conversation by saying we shouldn't comment on people's bodies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Given all the additional context and understanding that we have, it really feels like turning a blind eye more than it does showing a kindness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I am kind of irritated at people's misunderstanding of what people meant when they said like, oh, you know, it's not nice to comment on people's bodies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: just generally don't be an asshole is what that sentence means right and when you see someone visibly frail yeah Ariana has always been thin she has not always looked like this no there is cause for concern yep
[SPEAKER_00]: and we can say that without it being like um and and fuck her and she should die for what she's done.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like right.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is it's a mental illness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Eating disorders are mental illnesses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had a needing disorder.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I
[SPEAKER_00]: feel very deeply for people that are struggling with their bodies in that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wish that we as a culture had a better way to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: In a way that was both empathetic and also honest.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it feels like people want you to pick one.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's either you choose the empathetic route or you choose the honest route, but you cannot do both.
[SPEAKER_00]: I disagree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you can
[SPEAKER_00]: And it frustrates me to see people in the comments sections, not even try.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just shut the conversation down entirely, which I think is vastly unhelpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's people having like a fundamental, like you said, misunderstanding of where the phrase, like, don't comment on other people's bodies came from.
[SPEAKER_01]: That phrase originated as a response to systemic fat phobia.
[SPEAKER_01]: is a different beast entirely than talking about like any individual person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's completely different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel a lot of the time because you'll see comments online about, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: I hear you, I understand, and skinny people are not at a systemic detriment, nor will they ever be, because of their body, in the way that fat people are.
[SPEAKER_01]: At a macro level, fat people are disproportionately affected because of the way that they look.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see that in the way that fat people are treated in the medical industry.
[SPEAKER_01]: You see that in the way that people are treated in business industries.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in the way that people are treated vis-a-vis like their socios, their social status.
[SPEAKER_01]: That does not happen for skinny people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so...
[SPEAKER_01]: That, first of all, to me is a null-invoyed comment because it does not apply to this situation, totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: On top of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: When we talk about not commenting on people's bodies, we are talking about the general public, the everyday laymen, not commenting on people's bodies.
[SPEAKER_01]: doesn't really apply to people in the highest positions of socio and political power in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that is a different thing entirely, completely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because these are people who have status and have global influence,
[SPEAKER_01]: on culture and they know that they do and they in fact have every single resource to help themselves and they are actively choosing not to and are actively choosing to perpetuate harmful body standards to the greater culture around them.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a completely different thing when we say, you know, don't comment on people's bodies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't, yeah, don't comment on your coworker, Deborah, right, losing weight or gaining weight because she's just some random lady, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Ariana Grande is not some random lady.
[SPEAKER_01]: She is one of the biggest celebrities in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Demi Moore is not some random lady.
[SPEAKER_00]: these are people with an unfathomable amount of influence and power.
[SPEAKER_00]: The amount of eyes that are on them, the amount of like young girls that look up to them and idolize them, it matters.
[SPEAKER_01]: It matters.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is again, it's a complete difference between, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: punching down, right, talking, shitting on some random person that you see on the street because they're fattened, you don't like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And talking about the genuine concern for the overall cultural influence of, again, one of the most powerful people in the world's choice that they are making.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's like, I don't understand why people have a hard time holding multiple things to be true at once.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it'd be really weird to not feel bad witnessing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, eating disorders be platformed on the world stage, seeing Ariana Grande go on a world tour as if she is not suffering.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she's just continuing to perform and be this dancing monkey and everyone has to just be like everything's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all normal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, I think it's normal to have a reaction to that and be like, Oh, something's wrong here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't like that we're just, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: putting this up on stage for every young girl to witness and idolize and we can hold that to be true while simultaneously understanding that what we're witnessing is a mental health crisis.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that
[SPEAKER_00]: anorexious specifically has the highest case mortality rate of any eating disorder.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those things can both be true at the same time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: We, you can have empathy for the individual while also critiquing the kind of macro influence that that individual has on greater pressure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I fear for what young girls are being taught.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: The same way that like when I look back at when we were young and there were very similar body image ideals when we were young in the early 2000s and 90s.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember what all of the my mom used to get us and people magazines delivered to the house every week and so they were always in the bathroom
[SPEAKER_00]: I was always reading them and seeing what they said.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way they spoke about people's bodies, and who's bodies they celebrated, and who's they didn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: The amount of times that they
[SPEAKER_00]: tour Britney Spears to shreds for being like maybe a size eight.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like Jessica Simpson in the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: They would call her like porcupine every single week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like that stuff stuck with me forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is never left.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: I sometimes feel really confused about like people our age who have like lived through an era like this before.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And hopefully had some kind of reflection and reckoning or like you hope that people at this age, which again, we've talked about this before, about realizing that a lot of people don't reckon with their body image or their relationship to themselves at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's hard for me to understand that because I'm like, we've seen this before.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've had time to reckon with it's impact on us and what it did and what we had to work through as a result of what culture told us beauty was and what the value of thinness was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now we're going to watch it be given to more young women.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that not bother you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think about like eight year old girls right now when I want to cry.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand how people cannot be devastated and scared.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just like, oh my god, I thought we were doing something better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I thought that we were moving in a different direction.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now we're all the way back to where we were.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when we were kids not obviously this is not the responsibility of Ariana Grande.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the fallen her shoulders.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's one example of a larger problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's hard not to notice it when she's one of the largest stars in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, her celebrity is massive right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's scary to think about.
[SPEAKER_01]: how someone like Ariana Grande who theoretically has all the ability to get help that she needs is still being failed by the systems around her.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that's a really scary thought that someone with that much power and that that many people around her is still being failed by the system is terrifying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I honestly, I sometimes think that it's because there are a lot of people that still don't see eating disorders as being mental illnesses because fitness is so celebrated and upheld as being like such an achievement and an accomplishment and something that we celebrate and congratulate people on, that people don't, there's like some disconnect in their brains,
[SPEAKER_00]: where they're like, oh, there's, there's isn't a mental illness.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is something that we're going to get people their flowers for.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the amount of, so many people can relate to like the, the, you know, when you lose a little bit of weight and people immediately congratulate you for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was the most incredible thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you could have lost that weight for any reason under the sun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I just think people's inability to connect eating disorders with mental illness.
[SPEAKER_00]: because of how we just like herald thinness as being the most important thing is a real detriment in this context.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just, again, it's like, I think, because I think sometimes when we start talking about like the greater kind of cultural and socio impacts that these people have,
[SPEAKER_01]: people in the comments can be very quick to be like, you know, don't talk about Ariana that way, don't talk about this one person that way, whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think to your point, it's like, that doesn't mean that we don't have empathy for her situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually feel like a deep amount of empathy for her situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel really sad for her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Ariana is an extremely talented person.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love a lot of her music and she has impacted me with her artistry over the years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that she's someone who's been through a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that she has like,
[SPEAKER_00]: It makes me sad because I wish she was better supported.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: As someone who's carrying so much trauma and has been through so much, that she never should have had to go through, it makes me sad for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I imagine that all of these things are connected.
[SPEAKER_00]: trauma and grief.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't go away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You carry that with you forever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she has gone through these things on the world's stage.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't imagine what that does to a person and how that impacts someone's mental health.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really scary.
[SPEAKER_01]: And like you said, and it's like we've been saying, it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: if she is failed by the support system around her, what does that mean for the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of young women and young people who do not have the access that she does?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's what's really scary.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is like alongside the fact that we are witnessing someone dying in front of our eyes, they are killing themselves in front of our eyes.
[SPEAKER_01]: They are also influencing, totally, young people to do the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't like erase the responsibility that she has.
[SPEAKER_00]: just because she is clearly suffering from something much larger or erase the responsibility from her community around her.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's also, that's the thing too, is it's like it really does take a village to untangle these things that have been hardwired into our brains and it takes community and a lot of like intentional rehabilitation in order to get out of
[SPEAKER_01]: this type of spiral.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I just fear for the young people that don't have that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're in this very weird era of the internet where people
[SPEAKER_00]: the word like acknowledgement comes up a lot where it's like you need to acknowledge what you've done or what you've contributed or you're going to take accountability for what you've done.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think people will say things like this in connection to someone like Ariana Grande and I think it's incredibly misguided.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that kind of energy is actually really unhelpful because again, we're I think there's something about treating a mental health crisis
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it is, you need to stand up and apologize for what you've done.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a bad person, apologize.
[SPEAKER_00]: Get on the podium and take responsibility for what you've done.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like people want to punish people.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I don't know that that's like I understand the anger because obviously I feel anger too totally.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't necessarily understand the desire to punish people for their suffering rather than help them.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels ultimately what it feels is very puritanical.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a very puritanical and Western approach to shame.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And punishing people for
[SPEAKER_01]: they're quote-unquote sins, and trying to make them repent for the things that they've done.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think, because I think a lot of people who will argue for that and get really angry and righteous about that, a lot of them are young.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's like a lot of the people that I will see are quite young who are kind of calling for this take accountability for what you've done
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that they realize that the origin of that again is very conservative and puritan, ultimately, it's ultimately, it comes from that type of historical background.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that, like you said, is truly unhelpful because all that does is further isolate someone in need of help.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's hard, like you said, to kind of tow this line between, again, this person who's in this immense position of power, who is also immensely suffering, to,
[SPEAKER_01]: uh, understand the greater cultural influence that they have and critique that while recognizing that shaming them for what they're doing is not going to fix their individual problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, when we talk about like the kind of pervasive trend that we're seeing in glorifying thinness, whenever I'm talking about that, I'm not really talking about one individual person in Hollywood.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's overall.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's overall.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the general trend we're seeing across many of these actresses, musicians, everyone is shrinking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone is shrinking.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's scary to see.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I just, I wish people would see these conversations as more of a call-in versus a call-out completely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And to understand, there's like a compassionate way to talk about these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it doesn't have to be like, this like, shame, spiral, we're making people feel worse or trying to make people feel bad and look at what they've done and feel horrible about themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I have no desire.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think we ever need to bring more shame into the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: have a desire to protect young girls, and I also have a desire to protect Ariana.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like just women, period.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, people, period.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is like, obviously the pressure to be thin and to be this image of beauty is something that impacts everyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: like I there's no exceptions to we all are influenced by this and I I completely understand an empathize with how someone like Ariana could be under an immense amount of that pressure and unfathomable amount paired with the trauma and grief that she's gone through in front of millions and how people have responded to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: The woman's been through enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't need to put her through more.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it, yeah, it's upsetting because it appears as though she is going through more and the internet is having really hard time figuring out how to discuss that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, without either
[SPEAKER_00]: taking it more as like an opportunity to reprimand into yeah I don't know and sometimes I like have it known how to navigate this topic publicly not because I don't know what I want to say yeah but because I know what people will say in response to a fat woman having this conversation this is also like none of my business really and I
[SPEAKER_00]: the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know though in my head, having been on the internet for so many years, I can anticipate what someone who hates fat people is going to say when they hear a fat person talking about this, which I feel like nothing that we've said right now is particularly insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that we'll have to go back and watch a little bit go back and watch, but I feel like we're having a very reasonable conversation, but I know that people will hear this coming from the mouth of a fat person and be like, oh, well, I'm worried about you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like get defensive and try to turn it around as if it's like apples to apples, kind of thing, and not just like them being fat phobic for no reason, because they're fucking mad.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think it's important to talk about, and I do think that, yeah, I really wish that the internet didn't see things as being so like binary, it's like thin to fat and these experience are are complete mirrors of each other, right, just on the opposites and it's like that's not how life works, yeah, it is truly so much more complicated than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it's you're right it's like it's tough because it's like you we have these conversations and as fat women women on the internet it can very quickly turn into like oh someone's trying to cope or like you're just jealous bubble on it's like whoa whoa brother this is not
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not that at all and I think then also just boils down to like them not seeing us as people outside of our Fattness right it's like them just viewing us as this one trait and only seeing any perspective that we have is coming from that yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you're right, it's like it's a really hard line to toe as someone who is in a plus size body to talk about eating disorders in any regard, even though many people who are in plus size bodies either have or are experiencing eating disorders completely just like anybody else.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and so like, but that's hard for people to acknowledge as well, that like a fat person can also be anorexic a fat person can also be Belémick and speak to those experiences.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is yeah, it's like It's a it's a difficult conversation to have online and also
[SPEAKER_01]: unfortunately, online is some of where these conversations really can only occur, you know, it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I'm also, yeah, I'm just also afraid for the young people who are online and see comments like that because it's hard for me as like an adult woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Totally, I'm like, I've been reading comments like that for 16 years and it's still hard for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: We literally had that two weeks ago and it was hard for us, you know, and so to be someone young and and, um, easily influenced.
[SPEAKER_01]: it just it's it scares me it scares me and I think unfortunately Ariana Grande is one example of again this shift that we are seeing that is really frightening yeah
[SPEAKER_01]: And we know that it's really frightening.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have seen and we are able to like scientifically back with evidence, the trend and waves of, you know, skinny culture and how that influences young people's eating disorders and how that affects their mortality rates.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really frightening, deeply, deeply.
[SPEAKER_01]: I genuinely hope that she is able to find liberation from this as well as all of the celebrities who are experiencing
[SPEAKER_01]: being on GLP ones when they don't need to be or have any reason to be or just starving themselves or have our experiencing eating disorders in any way like I genuinely wish for liberation for all of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the meantime, I do think it is important that we critique when people empower choose to influence greater communities by making these choices for sure and going to extremes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel similarly about the choices that celebrities make about plastic surgery.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm.
[SPEAKER_00]: So do I.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't fault any one individual for getting plastic surgery.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's...
[SPEAKER_00]: Internet's so frustrating.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's crazy out there, girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are conversations that I feel like all of us are having with our friends in our homes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then when you try to take the conversation online, there are crazy people on there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a crazy thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, I don't, what do these people want?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, what's the, you don't want to talk about it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: What, what do you hope happens?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a really good question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what is your hopeful outcome for how you think you see things going or not see it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you just pretending none of it's happening?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, anyway, what do we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where do we go from here?
[SPEAKER_01]: Guys, what do we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do we do?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do we do now?
[SPEAKER_00]: Everyone get fat now everyone just get fat Guys come on we've been saying most you just know that there are going to be people in our fucking College that's the thesis of what we just said for the past 30 minutes There are people committed to misunderstanding everywhere, but yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the take away here to me is just like, you have to learn how to move through the world with compassion and empathy and honesty at the same time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, let's learn how to do all those things at once.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's not sweep things under the rug for the sake of niceties.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, that's also puritanical.
[SPEAKER_01]: For sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: People are still going to turn that around on us, but come on, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys, we're really tired.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, we were awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think we were spinning bars throughout that whole section.
[SPEAKER_00]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you disagree, you hate fat people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can quote me on that we love you guys we do we really do we love you
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Merch is again linked in the description down below.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'd like to keep this party going I do the post show over on the Patreon every week.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can follow the podcast at emotionally online pod You can follow me at Maddie Drawspack.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can follow me at Megroko and I'll see you next week