WEBVTT 00:00.451 --> 00:13.557 [SPEAKER_02]: Last week we talked about how intimacy can slowly become pressurized in a relationship and how both partners can end up feeling really alone and suffering, but in very different ways. 00:14.318 --> 00:17.399 [SPEAKER_00]: One person can feel unwanted, rejected. 00:17.419 --> 00:23.602 [SPEAKER_00]: The other person can feel pressure, overwhelmed, emotionally withdrawn. 00:24.163 --> 00:29.065 [SPEAKER_02]: And the truth is couples don't need to feel more pressure about their intimacy. 00:29.397 --> 00:35.061 [SPEAKER_00]: They need more safety, they need more honesty and transparency about what's really happening underneath. 00:35.401 --> 00:44.568 [SPEAKER_02]: So today we're going to talk about how couples can take pressure out of the system and how in doing so they can rebuild emotional connection. 00:44.969 --> 00:55.597 [SPEAKER_00]: We're going to talk about honest conversations, realistic agreements, emotional safety, nervous system regulation, and how to stop seeing each other as the problem. 00:55.677 --> 00:57.318 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can rebuild your intimacy. 00:57.773 --> 01:02.517 [SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, this is where things started really changing for us in our relationship. 01:02.817 --> 01:12.886 [SPEAKER_00]: Because once we stopped protecting ourselves from each other and we started to understand each other better, intimacy stopped feeling like pressure and started feeling safe again. 01:13.186 --> 01:14.167 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's get into it. 01:19.117 --> 01:22.619 [SPEAKER_00]: Hello all and welcome to the Relationship Innovation Podcast. 01:22.779 --> 01:23.840 [SPEAKER_00]: I am Tara Kerwin. 01:24.020 --> 01:38.108 [SPEAKER_02]: And my name is Eja Kerwin and we are back for part two of intimacy pressure, which is all about rebuilding safety and connection around intimacy and one thing we talked about. 01:38.548 --> 01:47.551 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot about last week is how when there is a struggle in your intimate relationship that it creates a ton of pressure. 01:47.891 --> 02:03.235 [SPEAKER_02]: We sort of named all the ways that that pressure builds, why it happens, and sort of the negative effect it has on you in your intimate relationship, in your emotional safety, in your ability to connect with one another. 02:03.535 --> 02:12.866 [SPEAKER_00]: And just know, so many couples, I mean, so many couples deal with intimacy issues, but intimacy cannot heal if the pressure is there. 02:12.906 --> 02:15.990 [SPEAKER_00]: So we are here today to talk about how to get the pressure off your system. 02:16.010 --> 02:17.652 [SPEAKER_00]: And we are living proof. 02:18.192 --> 02:18.773 [SPEAKER_00]: It has happened. 02:18.793 --> 02:19.193 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, five. 02:19.274 --> 02:19.654 [SPEAKER_00]: Hi, four. 02:19.674 --> 02:20.295 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just a chair. 02:20.675 --> 02:38.132 [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, we're going to have two kind of really big themes today, and the first is that couples need collaboration, not score keeping, and that's one of the things about intimacy, especially when it's really the main symptom is sexual connection. 02:38.673 --> 02:44.839 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of score keeping that goes on and we're going to go into how that happens and what's negative and how to avoid it. 02:45.379 --> 03:08.393 [SPEAKER_02]: And then we're also just going to come back to this overarching theme that really is like the theme of our work with couples in general, which is emotional safety that emotional safety is the foundation for a healthy relationship and then the context of the sexual relationship that emotional safety actually builds desire between couples. 03:08.804 --> 03:09.925 [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, let's get into it. 03:10.145 --> 03:12.866 [SPEAKER_00]: Stop treating intimacy like a performance review. 03:12.926 --> 03:14.407 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is a big one. 03:14.507 --> 03:23.773 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like the number one thing we want to lead with is that one of the really negative things that starts happening is that there's a real like 03:24.673 --> 03:26.776 [SPEAKER_02]: battle of chronology, right? 03:26.916 --> 03:42.176 [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember this with us a lot where like, and we're really talking specifically, well, not just about sex, so I'll I'll widen it a little bit, but there was definitely a lot of conversations where I would be like, it's been this long since we've been intimate with one another. 03:42.516 --> 03:46.362 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would be like, it's been this long since you took me on a date buddy. 03:46.442 --> 03:53.632 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it would even literally be, we would have different scores about how long it's been, right? 03:53.692 --> 03:55.455 [SPEAKER_02]: It was like, well, it's been, it's been a month. 03:55.555 --> 03:56.276 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, it has been a month. 03:56.316 --> 03:57.498 [SPEAKER_02]: It's only been like three weeks. 03:58.158 --> 04:00.679 [SPEAKER_02]: And this, that's what crazy to get into. 04:00.699 --> 04:09.283 [SPEAKER_02]: Or this performance review of how you guys are doing intimately creates like a pass fail thinking, right? 04:09.303 --> 04:20.008 [SPEAKER_02]: It is like, well, if it's been this long or if we haven't gone on this amount of dates or if we're not making our relationship a priority, then we're failing. 04:20.228 --> 04:23.389 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're losing at being intimately connected. 04:23.810 --> 04:26.591 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's not something that creates pressure alone. 04:26.989 --> 04:50.383 [SPEAKER_00]: I like the second one you put here is like the stop monitoring frequency like being obsessed with it because I remember in my mind with my anxiety, I was like okay it's been like two weeks so that means I'm probably going to have to like have sex soon so then I can get this anxiety away for at least like a couple more weeks and like oh just that was where I was illuminating like constantly so I love that you put this 04:50.783 --> 04:57.550 [SPEAKER_02]: And because it's not just that you're keeping a score with each other, there's like an internal score, right? 04:58.150 --> 05:11.303 [SPEAKER_02]: And it was like, it was an inverse relationship as well, meaning that like, Tara's was, was, oh, it's been this long and, and I'm feeling anxious about about when it's going to happen. 05:11.403 --> 05:11.643 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 05:11.703 --> 05:14.046 [SPEAKER_02]: And mine was like, oh, it's been this long. 05:14.666 --> 05:33.310 [SPEAKER_02]: When is it going to happen again and so it's like similar and it creates that pressure of both of us like sort of grading ourselves and then in turn and some ways Grating each other right so so the first thing you guys really want to work to do 05:34.051 --> 05:42.847 [SPEAKER_02]: is take out any sense of counting, of scorekeeping, of like, how are we doing, like, like, take it out of that context? 05:42.887 --> 05:46.113 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you do that individually or do you have a conversation with the other person? 05:46.754 --> 06:01.852 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, certainly, that's another part of what we're talking about is we're talking about like really finding ways to talk about the intimate connection between the two of you but in a different way and a healthier way. 06:01.933 --> 06:04.816 [SPEAKER_02]: Instead of Tara, it's been this long. 06:05.737 --> 06:10.202 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, hey, can we talk about our intimate connection? 06:10.222 --> 06:19.332 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, in a really positive way, because it's not that I'm frustrated with you, but it's that I think we both want to have a healthy, intimate relationship. 06:19.663 --> 06:19.883 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 06:20.423 --> 06:38.407 [SPEAKER_00]: We've had so many couples where like frequency is like really important and it's like saying this sounds much more simple than it actually is because for some people like having physical intimacy is how they, that's how they feel secure in the relationships. 06:38.428 --> 06:39.848 [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like I feel like it starts 06:40.648 --> 06:44.291 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, internally, how do I create pressure in this system? 06:44.311 --> 06:46.473 [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's a system between two people. 06:47.134 --> 06:49.776 [SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like the first thing would be like, how do I create pressure? 06:49.816 --> 06:53.580 [SPEAKER_00]: Like mine was like, oh my gosh, I get nervous and I'm thinking about it. 06:53.620 --> 06:57.123 [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be like two weeks and I just give in and then I care to take him because 06:57.643 --> 06:58.745 [SPEAKER_00]: I just want it to be gone. 06:58.805 --> 07:10.379 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I knew how I created that pressure and then you right looking, you looking at it and then having a discussion about how you each create pressure in the relationship. 07:10.399 --> 07:12.922 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like that's like the first step because openness, 07:13.622 --> 07:16.064 [SPEAKER_00]: creates a release, right? 07:16.124 --> 07:18.986 [SPEAKER_00]: As I think of that, what does it call like the instant steamer? 07:19.186 --> 07:19.967 [SPEAKER_00]: What's the thing you could cook? 07:19.987 --> 07:20.648 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, pressure cooker. 07:20.748 --> 07:22.429 [SPEAKER_00]: A pressure cooker, right? 07:22.529 --> 07:30.295 [SPEAKER_00]: Imagine if you're not talking about a pressure pressure pressure, will you start to talk about me and what does that pressure I put on our intimacy within the two of us? 07:30.415 --> 07:32.657 [SPEAKER_00]: It automatically starts to create more openness. 07:32.797 --> 07:32.997 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 07:33.277 --> 07:42.401 [SPEAKER_02]: because we're trying to create here in this episode a framework for you to talk about intimacy in a different way, right? 07:42.761 --> 07:50.264 [SPEAKER_02]: Because oftentimes when couples come to us, the way that they're trying to talk about it, the setting that they talk about it, 07:50.724 --> 07:58.488 [SPEAKER_02]: the way they're sort of rating it or maybe even comparing it to earlier portions of the relationship is not working. 07:58.548 --> 08:06.973 [SPEAKER_02]: So we want you to take pressure out of the system by consistently talking about it, but doing it in healthy ways. 08:07.053 --> 08:10.075 [SPEAKER_00]: Can we do a role play since we've seen so many couples around this? 08:10.496 --> 08:23.306 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's say I'm the anxious one and I'm also the low desire partner and I just feel like really annoyed at you for constantly wanting sex and talking about it. 08:23.326 --> 08:24.867 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm just frustrated with you, okay? 08:25.287 --> 08:30.071 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's say that's my case study in your partner, like just think of someone that we 08:30.638 --> 08:49.235 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, I think oftentimes the flip side is the person that is feeling rejected and frustrated and powerless because they feel like you have the power to make it happen and I'm sitting waiting for it to happen. 08:49.295 --> 08:56.181 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm the person who has resentment, frustration, and also maybe like lingering beneath 08:57.830 --> 09:11.940 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we want to role model what a going into for the first time, a conversation with a couple that presents like this and how it could start to feel a little different for each. 09:12.120 --> 09:21.407 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, I am that anxious, annoyed person who's got a lower desire and I'm just like annoyed by your constant need for sex. 09:22.988 --> 09:37.858 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, AJ, I've been thinking about, right, our intimacy, especially our physical intimacy and it feels like there has been this pressure around it or this tension around it and I really want it to be something that we don't walk on age shelves around. 09:38.458 --> 09:51.966 [SPEAKER_00]: So I just have to let you know that I'm experiencing a lot of anxiety and a lot of like confusion and frustration, because I'm not exactly, I know where I'm at right now, like my desire is fairly low. 09:52.867 --> 10:02.893 [SPEAKER_00]: And I just want to be able to have a curious conversation about where you're at, because I want my desire to be higher, I want to be able to connect with you in those ways. 10:03.753 --> 10:31.094 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think when I feel like the pressure in the system it just keeps me kind of frozen and I don't want to be frozen with you Yeah, and I think that that works because it really is The beginning of honesty with one another, but doing it in a really hearable way because that I come out of it Feeling much less like blamed and I might have learned something about you, right? 10:31.134 --> 10:31.995 [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's important 10:32.695 --> 10:41.097 [SPEAKER_02]: If I was originating the conversation and that's the hard thing is like who's going to be the one who takes that emotional risk to bring it up? 10:41.157 --> 10:51.819 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, I would want to say something like, hey, you know, I know like us being connected is like really important. 10:51.859 --> 10:54.640 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know that we love each other very much. 10:55.400 --> 11:08.365 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I want to find ways to like understand what you're going through, because I know that both of us are aware, this is this elephant in the room a lot about about our sex life. 11:09.085 --> 11:13.126 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I want to be able to open up with you and tell you what it's like for me. 11:13.907 --> 11:17.408 [SPEAKER_02]: And I want to, I honestly want to hear what's going on for you. 11:18.182 --> 11:22.908 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, could everyone just in the world had this conversation for those couple struggling with intimacy? 11:22.928 --> 11:30.297 [SPEAKER_00]: Because that feels really good versus right, that annoyance, like, stop, just stop it, blame. 11:30.317 --> 11:35.563 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we definitely want to avoid that blame mentality, or really, like, 11:36.544 --> 11:47.376 [SPEAKER_02]: this lack of acceptance that a couple having a dry season in their sex life is absolutely normal. 11:47.737 --> 11:52.442 [SPEAKER_02]: That it is a rare couple that hasn't or will not 11:53.362 --> 11:55.904 [SPEAKER_02]: experience at one time in their relationships. 11:55.924 --> 12:08.891 [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that that's an important part of beginning to talk honestly about it is just normalizing for both of you that what you're going through is not like some symptom of being like impossibly broken. 12:09.091 --> 12:13.976 [SPEAKER_00]: So let's you say you started this conversation because now we wanna have realistic expectations, right? 12:13.996 --> 12:27.009 [SPEAKER_00]: Because in that earlier conversation where we're role modeling, what like vulnerable, transparent communication look like, I said like, I'm just at this place where I just like, my desire feels really low. 12:27.049 --> 12:28.290 [SPEAKER_00]: I wanted to come back. 12:29.091 --> 12:35.633 [SPEAKER_00]: But I also don't want to force myself to give in if my little body doesn't want to, right? 12:36.013 --> 12:42.156 [SPEAKER_00]: Because this is where you guys can now together come up with these, like, well, how else, what else would feel good terror? 12:42.196 --> 12:51.359 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I mean, I think, I think where you're getting at is you want to begin to discuss agreements around intimacy that aren't obligations, right? 12:51.379 --> 12:57.181 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that that's like, and I know there's sex therapists and there's other therapists who might, like, 12:57.681 --> 12:59.822 [SPEAKER_02]: throw out like you just need to schedule it. 13:01.142 --> 13:09.065 [SPEAKER_02]: And what we've found is that that begins for both people really, it becomes an obligation. 13:09.565 --> 13:15.708 [SPEAKER_02]: And that Tara feels obligated in the position she's in, that she has to be in that place. 13:16.748 --> 13:18.791 [SPEAKER_02]: on that Saturday night or whatever. 13:19.512 --> 13:19.793 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 13:20.213 --> 13:25.241 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I sort of feel this like, like, reverse obligation like this. 13:25.341 --> 13:26.943 [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, she's agreed to this. 13:27.624 --> 13:27.865 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 13:27.885 --> 13:29.948 [SPEAKER_02]: So we, she has to do this. 13:29.988 --> 13:31.550 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's just like, yeah, 13:31.610 --> 13:34.112 [SPEAKER_02]: you know, you want to make agreements, not obligations. 13:34.672 --> 13:39.716 [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of that is about expanding the definition of intimacy. 13:39.776 --> 13:43.679 [SPEAKER_02]: And I know like a lot of guys struggle with this, right? 13:44.219 --> 13:46.861 [SPEAKER_02]: But I'll tell you like from the standpoint of just like, 13:47.441 --> 14:08.771 [SPEAKER_02]: What's worked in our relationship and what I've seen work with other couples is that when you begin to expand What intimacy is you begin to cultivate it and you have a higher likelihood that that side the sexual side of intimacy begins to become cultivated as well 14:09.905 --> 14:12.227 [SPEAKER_00]: So again, let's go back to that conversation right? 14:12.368 --> 14:13.649 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm the lower desire partner. 14:14.169 --> 14:15.310 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel really anxious. 14:15.571 --> 14:16.992 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to feel the elephant in the room. 14:17.032 --> 14:19.174 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to be able to connect with you in other ways. 14:20.429 --> 14:40.582 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that I have the lower desire right now and so I know that frequency the way you would want it isn't going to happen as much as you would like and I'm just wondering if there's a way where we can talk about other ways we can connect so that way we're still feeling connected but maybe it's not just around sex. 14:41.418 --> 14:49.502 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, because really what you're doing there is you're making a bid for connection, right? 14:49.622 --> 15:07.092 [SPEAKER_02]: And that even the act of beginning to talk about the pressure that's in the system and your experience of it, if we do it in an emotionally open way, it cultivates emotional closeness, right? 15:09.773 --> 15:19.275 [SPEAKER_02]: I actually think like the most important thing in the beginnings of these conversations is just sharing what it's like for you, right? 15:19.295 --> 15:25.716 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I think both of us at times approached it, like in a problem-solving sort of way. 15:26.597 --> 15:32.758 [SPEAKER_02]: And instead, when we began to play with, okay, what's it like for you? 15:33.178 --> 15:36.679 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Tara, like when you feel that pressure, 15:37.459 --> 15:43.260 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know that I want to connect with you in that way, what's that like for you? 15:43.920 --> 15:44.140 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what? 15:44.300 --> 15:47.581 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I feel sad like I'm disappointing you. 15:47.601 --> 15:51.822 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel frustrated that my drive isn't higher. 15:53.022 --> 16:01.524 [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like remorse in a little regret because like in the past I used to have, you know, just more for ski feelings. 16:01.824 --> 16:03.284 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's some grief there. 16:04.045 --> 16:05.725 [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, there's it's complex. 16:06.516 --> 16:09.859 [SPEAKER_02]: and then you would ask me, could you be curious as well? 16:10.400 --> 16:14.804 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, being in relationship right now to my lower desire. 16:15.164 --> 16:16.286 [SPEAKER_00]: What's that like for you? 16:17.467 --> 16:19.208 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's like sometimes it's really lonely. 16:19.268 --> 16:25.014 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I, it's a way that, you know, it was very special for us. 16:25.474 --> 16:26.015 [SPEAKER_02]: And, um, 16:27.136 --> 16:36.430 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I also like, I do, I'll admit it, like, I get frustrated, and I feel rejected, and I feel like it is about me. 16:37.171 --> 16:41.237 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, even though that's been kind of like one of the hard things over the years is that 16:42.899 --> 16:45.020 [SPEAKER_02]: You would frequently say it's not me. 16:45.080 --> 16:56.947 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just, you know, what you're going through and it was hard to to fully grasp that it because it always felt like, wow, if like she was really into me, she would just feel that way. 16:56.987 --> 17:01.189 [SPEAKER_02]: So I guess I like, I guess I'll also like confused of like, what happened? 17:01.229 --> 17:05.471 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, I don't understand, like, where did that go? 17:05.531 --> 17:07.092 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, yeah, 17:08.027 --> 17:14.995 [SPEAKER_00]: So teaching moment here, so before we had this conversation, I would just write, Oh, each is just being selfish. 17:15.595 --> 17:17.337 [SPEAKER_00]: His needs are the only needs that matters. 17:17.357 --> 17:18.459 [SPEAKER_00]: That's all he cares about. 17:19.119 --> 17:21.722 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I know he's felt confused. 17:22.223 --> 17:23.404 [SPEAKER_00]: He's felt alone. 17:24.024 --> 17:25.806 [SPEAKER_00]: He's felt undesired. 17:26.527 --> 17:40.016 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, he's my husband, I want to know more of that, but because you didn't have that open conversation or it doesn't look like suffering, it looks like, you know, just stop it already, it looks like annoying. 17:41.417 --> 17:47.761 [SPEAKER_00]: You can get deeper and then your heart can connect with the other person's heart because you're both suffering in those moments. 17:47.941 --> 17:50.223 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, this isn't about problem-solving. 17:50.283 --> 17:53.045 [SPEAKER_00]: It's truly understanding what it's like for the other person. 17:53.725 --> 17:56.747 [SPEAKER_00]: And the other person really wants to understand what it's like for you. 17:57.207 --> 18:03.890 [SPEAKER_02]: And we made promises to one another that we wouldn't hide our feelings around us. 18:03.970 --> 18:16.557 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's another super important thing is making an agreement that we're going to talk about it, that if we're feeling that pressure, if you're feeling the pressure will form, and 18:16.997 --> 18:27.423 [SPEAKER_02]: If I'm feeling the pressure to do something that's going to cultivate that side of our relationship, that we are definitely going to talk about it. 18:27.443 --> 18:29.444 [SPEAKER_02]: We're not going to let it come outside with. 18:29.785 --> 18:34.147 [SPEAKER_00]: And we also, like, this is going to be important to, like, that care taking of the intimacy. 18:34.167 --> 18:37.309 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, EJ, don't ever stop wanting me. 18:37.329 --> 18:40.291 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I want to know, again, if I'm the Lord of the Zaire Partner. 18:40.771 --> 18:42.193 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to know that you still want me. 18:42.313 --> 18:44.114 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want you to hold yourself back. 18:44.675 --> 18:44.855 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? 18:44.895 --> 18:50.761 [SPEAKER_00]: If you still think I'm like looking cute and like you're definitely in the mood like I want to know that that's there. 18:50.781 --> 18:52.903 [SPEAKER_00]: I might not be like let's go. 18:53.463 --> 18:58.448 [SPEAKER_00]: But like don't compromise yourself for the sake of me. 18:59.068 --> 18:59.249 [SPEAKER_00]: Right? 18:59.289 --> 19:00.630 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's an agreement we have. 19:00.750 --> 19:05.254 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I want you to like still flirt with me and do all of those things and I want to be able to 19:06.055 --> 19:28.463 [SPEAKER_02]: you know give that back as well and we have to be able to be ourselves within this relationship that reduces the pressure yeah well and i think that you because you know we're talking a lot about this through our lens to our experience yeah but there i've i've worked with other couples where the lower desire partner like 19:29.461 --> 19:33.524 [SPEAKER_02]: does not want that, that that builds pressure. 19:34.244 --> 19:39.708 [SPEAKER_02]: And they've had to be explicit that like for the time being, for the time being right now. 19:39.748 --> 19:40.008 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 19:40.289 --> 19:52.958 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's another like big part of it is sort of like getting out of like this big picture thing of like we're just never gonna have that again and getting into conversations about like right now. 19:52.978 --> 19:55.780 [SPEAKER_02]: And if we're talking about this relatively regularly, 19:56.780 --> 19:59.541 [SPEAKER_02]: then we're working towards it, right? 20:00.002 --> 20:09.046 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's the other honest agreement that you have to come to with your partner is what do we really both want? 20:09.186 --> 20:22.372 [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's not happening right now and maybe it's something we're working towards, but what's the tone, like, what's the vibe of our intimate relationship that we're aspiring towards? 20:22.652 --> 20:25.174 [SPEAKER_00]: That's like expanding your definition of intimacy. 20:25.254 --> 20:27.996 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not just about physical sex. 20:28.076 --> 20:28.316 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 20:28.957 --> 20:34.961 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's so important because it's like, I have a garden right now, right? 20:35.101 --> 20:36.061 [SPEAKER_02]: That is growing like a dream. 20:36.081 --> 20:36.662 [SPEAKER_02]: It really does. 20:36.702 --> 20:38.223 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like some metaphor. 20:38.243 --> 20:38.963 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no metaphor. 20:39.003 --> 20:40.204 [SPEAKER_02]: Like an actual garden. 20:40.725 --> 20:44.467 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, I had to mend the soil, right? 20:44.587 --> 20:48.010 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I had to get the plants and then I had to build a shade structure. 20:48.030 --> 20:50.291 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I had to put mulch over it. 20:50.311 --> 20:51.312 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I had to bury. 20:51.832 --> 21:07.879 [SPEAKER_02]: The irrigation and then I defer to eyes it right and now it looks like a really healthy garden That's a great metaphor, but all of those different things had to be cultivated to have The result right because at the end of the day, what do you want from your garden? 21:07.899 --> 21:09.500 [SPEAKER_02]: You want it to produce vegetables. 21:09.540 --> 21:15.102 [SPEAKER_02]: You want to have like you want to bring in a bunch of tomatoes You want to bring some cucumbers and that's the product 21:15.662 --> 21:27.330 [SPEAKER_02]: But that result, the product of it came from like weeks and hours of being out there doing different things to cultivate it, and that's what you have to do. 21:27.390 --> 21:41.280 [SPEAKER_02]: You take pressure out of the system by opening up emotionally to one another, sharing your experience, being able to hear it, even though maybe it's something that's really hard to hear, validating the other person's experience. 21:41.710 --> 21:52.321 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I am being creative about how to stay connected with each other outside of just sex because we don't want that to be the pressure. 21:52.481 --> 21:52.721 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. 21:52.881 --> 21:58.667 [SPEAKER_00]: We want that to feel organic and exciting and connected and healthy and free. 22:00.549 --> 22:22.695 [SPEAKER_02]: And so what I think you want to do like this is kind of the the hot button right here is in the pursuit of taking pressure out of the system around intimacy what you're doing is your collaboratively building emotional safety in your relationship right you are saying wherever you are 22:23.495 --> 22:40.634 [SPEAKER_02]: that even if maybe it was disruptive and you didn't always love the fact that where I was on the desire scale, that you accept me for I am me being there and that I vice versa do the same for you that I accept that that's where you are. 22:41.000 --> 22:48.808 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, and here's what's really cool now, because I'm just going to do a post-right healthy intimacy, because, well, let me define what healthy intimacy looks like, right? 22:48.868 --> 22:57.197 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like flexibility, honesty, humor, repair, for sure imperfection. 22:58.782 --> 23:01.363 [SPEAKER_00]: emotional responsiveness, right? 23:01.543 --> 23:06.565 [SPEAKER_00]: And so I wanted to share that because right now I'm going to be 50 soon. 23:06.585 --> 23:11.347 [SPEAKER_00]: I am in the throes of I'm almost can say I'm in menopause. 23:11.367 --> 23:12.088 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like 300 in. 23:15.639 --> 23:19.622 [SPEAKER_00]: 55 days, that's a three minute party in 10 days. 23:19.842 --> 23:31.651 [SPEAKER_00]: No, so but anyway, I started on HRT right, hormone replacement therapy, and I got these pellets in these testosterone estrogen pellets and like, dude, it's like a three month thing, right? 23:31.691 --> 23:37.136 [SPEAKER_00]: So there's about 12 weeks and three months, like four to five of those weeks, I was like, 23:37.536 --> 23:38.317 [SPEAKER_00]: Woohoo! 23:39.038 --> 23:46.627 [SPEAKER_00]: I was like a teenager again, like my sex drive was up, I'm freaking looking at sex toys, like this was just I was so excited. 23:47.288 --> 23:57.499 [SPEAKER_00]: And now, like no, now that the pellets are dropping out, I feel absolutely nothing, but I can't go get more pellets now for another few weeks. 23:58.080 --> 24:03.322 [SPEAKER_00]: But, Eugen, I can talk about it now, like he knows my desire has dropped down to zero. 24:03.922 --> 24:13.045 [SPEAKER_00]: We know that testosterone's freaking amazing for me anyway, and that when it starts to deplete, my little sex drive goes away, but it's there when it is. 24:13.646 --> 24:26.110 [SPEAKER_00]: And so, like, we have this like open acceptance, like, ah, for the next few weeks, it's probably going to be like really limited frequency because my little sex drive went down to zero, but we can talk about it, and there's no pressure in it. 24:26.450 --> 24:46.878 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's an interesting thing too because what we're talking about like building emotional safety, having these conversations, keeping them slow, doing them in the right place, maybe 11 o'clock at night and your bed is not the right place to have the conversation, but you do that and you develop the ability to talk about intimacy and a healthy way, 24:47.518 --> 24:53.763 [SPEAKER_02]: We originated doing this, you know, like over, you know, 10 years or so ago, got better at it. 24:53.864 --> 24:56.406 [SPEAKER_02]: And now we have a new challenge that's come in. 24:56.526 --> 25:03.892 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you, menopause, and we're dealing with it way better than the first time around. 25:04.032 --> 25:04.753 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my gosh. 25:04.813 --> 25:09.537 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, that's why we're doing this part to podcast because it's real. 25:09.557 --> 25:10.758 [SPEAKER_00]: Like we can talk about it. 25:11.899 --> 25:12.919 [SPEAKER_00]: And it feels okay. 25:13.788 --> 25:26.793 [SPEAKER_02]: So basically what we've put together is really the only way to take pressure out of the system around intimacy is to begin to talk about it in a healthy way. 25:27.414 --> 25:37.698 [SPEAKER_02]: And I also just want to put out there, especially if you're a couple who hasn't talked very much about it, or you've talked about it, and when you have it's gone offline, 25:38.559 --> 25:40.020 [SPEAKER_02]: It takes practice. 25:40.100 --> 25:48.148 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I feel like we became better at it through repetition through Yeah, and Tara was really great about this. 25:48.208 --> 25:56.616 [SPEAKER_02]: I will say like she was just like we have to talk about it We have because I would get to a point maybe where I'd be like super frustrated and she'd be like, what's going on up there? 25:56.676 --> 25:58.358 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I'm you know, I'm just 25:59.478 --> 26:04.300 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm I'm feeling this that and that and she's like well, why haven't you told me? 26:04.360 --> 26:05.040 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's true. 26:05.180 --> 26:14.183 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, so we want to help you out there back into like if you're listening to this podcast and you know that this is your relationship, 26:14.843 --> 26:19.705 [SPEAKER_02]: ask your partner like, hey, will you listen to this two-part series or on intimacy? 26:19.745 --> 26:33.891 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it will actually really help us, they're talking about it in a way that I would like to be able to talk about it with you and know that it's going to take reps, it's going to take trying it, it's going to take 26:34.451 --> 26:35.112 [SPEAKER_02]: Messing it up. 26:35.152 --> 26:37.794 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to take using other tools like code word. 26:37.834 --> 26:39.776 [SPEAKER_02]: Like oh, we're getting escalated. 26:39.796 --> 26:40.797 [SPEAKER_02]: This isn't working. 26:41.238 --> 26:43.960 [SPEAKER_02]: Fireball, you know, we're not that's our code word. 26:44.000 --> 26:47.263 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to we're going to back off from this, right? 26:47.964 --> 26:50.106 [SPEAKER_02]: And then the other thing quite honestly. 26:51.046 --> 27:06.956 [SPEAKER_02]: is sometimes you need help, you know, sometimes you need, you know, you need to give us an email and you need to sign up and do coaching with us or find a therapist that really knows what they're doing in your community around couples counseling. 27:07.217 --> 27:12.300 [SPEAKER_02]: Like sometimes we just need somebody to facilitate those conversations. 27:13.180 --> 27:18.383 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a ton of psychoeducation for how to manage this. 27:18.423 --> 27:25.186 [SPEAKER_00]: Like I think people think that they should just have these skills and that like intimacy should always be easy. 27:26.007 --> 27:34.271 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a lot of psychoeducation on how to navigate like lower desire, higher desire, how to build emotional safety. 27:34.932 --> 27:38.974 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, like we're humans and we don't like to be uncomfortable. 27:39.754 --> 27:43.499 [SPEAKER_00]: And so we try to make our environment as comfortable as possible. 27:43.539 --> 27:47.985 [SPEAKER_00]: So when someone's in it and they're mismatched and it's not giving me what I want. 27:48.766 --> 27:53.311 [SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're going to try to like control it and that's where it all goes bad. 27:53.976 --> 27:58.018 [SPEAKER_02]: And I will definitely in the show notes for these two episodes. 27:58.459 --> 28:15.168 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll also have links to we have a four part series on emotional and physical intimacy that goes into like all the components of intimacy and each of them and how they can be cultivated because it's a whole ecosystem. 28:15.568 --> 28:35.622 [SPEAKER_02]: that when just like my garden, when you're watering it and you're fertilizing it and you've mulched it and it's got shade that like when you start tinkering around like that, all of a sudden things start growing in ways you wouldn't even expect it and like Terseb, like we still have things we're going through. 28:36.382 --> 28:44.048 [SPEAKER_02]: But man, like it's it's way more playful than it used to be and like give me what are your injections The testosterone. 28:44.128 --> 28:45.850 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't want to wait don't mid you. 28:45.870 --> 28:55.057 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we don't like it's it's less sticky and it's less reacter Because we have all these other areas of intimacy that feel really dialed in 28:55.377 --> 29:06.160 [SPEAKER_00]: I also want to say, again, for, right, there is like a lot of people who can't, like, afford couples therapy or need more resources in our relationship renovation at home, book on Amazon. 29:06.180 --> 29:10.641 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a whole six part intimacy series that you can go through with your partner. 29:11.082 --> 29:15.763 [SPEAKER_00]: And it just talks about just beliefs around it and like emotional intimacy and physical intimacy. 29:16.423 --> 29:25.387 [SPEAKER_00]: you know, if nothing else just look through some of those questions and like that can be conversation starters if you don't know where to start. 29:25.687 --> 29:33.451 [SPEAKER_02]: If you're interested in working with us in our coaching program terror and I coach couples, please just reach out coaching at relationship renovation.com. 29:34.571 --> 29:35.471 [SPEAKER_02]: I got a men's group. 29:35.511 --> 29:36.292 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm putting together. 29:36.332 --> 29:37.973 [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to launch in July. 29:37.993 --> 29:38.933 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to do a local one. 29:38.973 --> 29:41.554 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to do the one called men who do the work. 29:41.574 --> 29:45.376 [SPEAKER_02]: Also, I'm going to do one that's globally reachable for people. 29:45.896 --> 29:47.217 [SPEAKER_02]: Keep listening to our podcast. 29:47.237 --> 29:47.897 [SPEAKER_02]: We love it. 29:47.937 --> 29:51.699 [SPEAKER_02]: When you share with somebody else so you know, we'll get something out of it. 29:52.299 --> 29:53.580 [SPEAKER_02]: Give us a rating. 29:53.700 --> 29:54.800 [SPEAKER_02]: Give us a review. 29:54.880 --> 29:55.681 [SPEAKER_02]: We appreciate that. 29:55.761 --> 29:58.702 [SPEAKER_02]: And if you just want to reach out and tell us your story, we love that. 29:58.742 --> 29:59.102 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 29:59.202 --> 29:59.803 [SPEAKER_02]: Podcasts at 30:02.942 --> 30:09.547 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening, you deserve amazing, healthy intimacy without pressure as always take care of yourself. 30:09.607 --> 30:10.367 [SPEAKER_00]: Take care of each other. 30:10.387 --> 30:10.828 [SPEAKER_00]: Bye-bye.