WEBVTT 00:03.256 --> 00:05.377 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a gay up name for a gay up podcast. 00:05.878 --> 00:09.980 [SPEAKER_02]: Hogan McLaughlin's on that's a gay ass podcast looking at. 00:10.000 --> 00:15.583 [SPEAKER_02]: So at least stunning, Hogan, you not only are showing us your stunning tattoos, which I want to get into. 00:15.603 --> 00:18.685 [SPEAKER_02]: We're also sitting with a stunning curtain behind you. 00:18.805 --> 00:20.326 [SPEAKER_02]: Where are you calling from? 00:20.346 --> 00:22.447 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is our living room. 00:23.728 --> 00:27.190 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, we just put some window treatments up because we didn't want to paint. 00:28.343 --> 00:31.264 [SPEAKER_02]: Hogan, you and Bill are such stylish gays. 00:31.304 --> 00:38.508 [SPEAKER_02]: And for anybody listening who doesn't know, Hogan and Bill Krasafi are not married, but you are fianceed. 00:38.548 --> 00:39.048 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that correct? 00:39.795 --> 00:42.217 [SPEAKER_01]: We say married because we've been engaged for 10 years. 00:42.298 --> 00:57.213 [SPEAKER_02]: So, so, let's, let's, and build this podcast not too long ago and you had a very popular episode and hogan in your own right is an equally amazing artist and you two together are so inspiring. 00:57.253 --> 01:01.357 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to talk about the artistry and of course for the substeck portion I'll talk about. 01:01.837 --> 01:14.946 [SPEAKER_02]: You're beautiful, sexy Twitter and some invasive questions, but speaking of Twitter, something less horny, but definitely important is on Twitter, your profile says that you're 1-16th wick-in on your mother's side. 01:15.306 --> 01:17.888 [SPEAKER_02]: Hogan, what is the wichiest thing about you? 01:18.308 --> 01:20.069 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, probably then I lived in Salem with Bill. 01:20.750 --> 01:20.910 [SPEAKER_01]: Um. 01:21.690 --> 01:26.153 [SPEAKER_01]: That, though, I have to say that's just a quote from Scooby-Doo and the Witches goes because I thought it was funny. 01:26.173 --> 01:28.635 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not really one since 16. 01:28.655 --> 01:31.437 [SPEAKER_02]: Not my dumb ass not picking up at it's an actual quote. 01:31.837 --> 01:38.522 [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, you have a lot of Scooby-Doo references, because it didn't seem to be like a full, almost like, a slutty boy drag as Daphne. 01:38.782 --> 01:45.306 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, we, our friends do this sort of pop crawl in Austin every year, and it's like a different theme. 01:45.586 --> 01:54.071 [SPEAKER_01]: And last year, I believe, for two years ago, it was Cartoon Network, so I did definitely build a drama, and we made a friend of ours, Freddie. 01:54.831 --> 02:00.675 [SPEAKER_01]: And I just like to make corsets, and yeah, and to have me always been like an eye kind of mine for sure. 02:00.715 --> 02:01.235 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god. 02:01.255 --> 02:01.435 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, 02:05.411 --> 02:05.611 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 02:05.831 --> 02:07.252 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 02:07.272 --> 02:13.496 [SPEAKER_02]: I am embarrassed to say that I was in love with that cartoon character, partly because of his Aryan qualities. 02:13.736 --> 02:14.916 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, not proud. 02:14.956 --> 02:20.780 [SPEAKER_02]: But I was raised to think that if you were blonde and blue eyed, you were God's favorite. 02:21.709 --> 02:25.013 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess I mean I was never drawn to guys as cartoons. 02:25.134 --> 02:37.911 [SPEAKER_01]: I just I don't know if it was the game me but I really I wasn't even drawn to villains how generally gay guys say like oh I'm so into like Ursula or whatever right I was always into the Disney princesses and I think it's because of the fashion connection. 02:38.897 --> 02:45.739 [SPEAKER_01]: always love their dresses, always loved how animators made things move and definitely was another style icon. 02:45.759 --> 02:49.000 [SPEAKER_01]: She wore like a cute purple dress and I was like, that's fucking fierce. 02:49.280 --> 02:50.580 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, very fierce. 02:50.600 --> 02:51.581 [SPEAKER_02]: The purple was purpling. 02:51.921 --> 02:54.801 [SPEAKER_02]: I do think that it's interesting before I get into like super specifics. 02:55.102 --> 02:57.722 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you self identify as a fashion designer? 02:57.842 --> 02:59.803 [SPEAKER_02]: Are you like giving performance artists? 02:59.863 --> 03:04.304 [SPEAKER_02]: You clearly work with a lot of fashion, but also you can build you so much art together. 03:07.784 --> 03:12.848 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of evolved over the years because I actually, I was a ballet dancer professionally for a long time. 03:13.509 --> 03:28.340 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I made the segway in my early 20s into fashion and I did was doing runway, celebrity dressing, had shows that New York Fashion Week, and then after the pandemic, I kind of pulled the reins in a little bit because I got so expensive to produce everything. 03:30.021 --> 03:33.924 [SPEAKER_01]: And I sort of revamped everything and Bill and I 03:35.045 --> 03:43.167 [SPEAKER_01]: had the opportunity to do a lot of stuff together with museums, and it kind of evolved into more costume-y, or more fantastical things. 03:43.587 --> 03:45.087 [SPEAKER_02]: So, God, I love it so much. 03:45.147 --> 03:51.989 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, we're going to get into also more of those fantasticy things, including Bill has a really cool project that's coming out soon. 03:52.889 --> 03:58.271 [SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's only fair that I ask you, Hogan, the famous podcast question, which is, who's 04:04.925 --> 04:06.387 [SPEAKER_01]: I blame my gay as family. 04:06.908 --> 04:10.412 [SPEAKER_01]: Everyone in it is basically a gay for it's not really, but there's so many. 04:11.033 --> 04:12.354 [SPEAKER_01]: My sister has a girlfriend. 04:12.415 --> 04:14.577 [SPEAKER_01]: My cousin growing up was my best friend. 04:14.597 --> 04:15.158 [SPEAKER_01]: He's gay. 04:15.919 --> 04:17.801 [SPEAKER_01]: Gay on goals, gay ads. 04:17.861 --> 04:18.382 [SPEAKER_02]: The fuck? 04:18.402 --> 04:20.064 [SPEAKER_02]: Why did you get this gay family here? 04:20.104 --> 04:23.088 [SPEAKER_02]: I was the St. Louis Missouri with a bunch of straighties, bunch of breeders. 04:23.968 --> 04:30.440 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it was lucky and my parents were both in theaters, so it was sort of like a cherry on top. 04:30.720 --> 04:31.001 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess. 04:31.021 --> 04:32.644 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you're giving us so many teases here. 04:32.664 --> 04:33.706 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's zoom out for a second. 04:33.746 --> 04:34.547 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's all right. 04:34.587 --> 04:36.030 [SPEAKER_02]: You're seeing where with your gay ass family. 04:37.423 --> 04:39.825 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, we grew up just outside of Chicago in O'Poc. 04:40.166 --> 04:42.708 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I'm so serious outside of Chicago. 04:42.808 --> 04:44.149 [SPEAKER_02]: Your parents are feeder queens. 04:44.489 --> 04:48.093 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so they were like performing feeder in Chicago and in New York. 04:48.933 --> 04:49.954 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, God. 04:49.974 --> 04:52.517 [SPEAKER_02]: You have such good lore already, Hogan. 04:52.557 --> 04:58.582 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's probably when I was researching you, it says you started taking ballet at two years old, is that correct? 04:59.608 --> 05:11.195 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there was a local studio that started in preschool and just kind of, you can either go in the education route or the music route or you can go in the ballet route, which I did. 05:11.695 --> 05:15.677 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, studied until I joined a professional company at 16. 05:16.998 --> 05:18.500 [SPEAKER_02]: So the fuck is going on in this podcast? 05:18.520 --> 05:25.146 [SPEAKER_02]: You're the second person I've interviewed in a week and a half that Started dancing professionally a 16 years old. 05:25.607 --> 05:32.373 [SPEAKER_02]: I think Owens was on the podcast earlier and he just gave us crazy lore. 05:32.714 --> 05:37.178 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you agree with him that most professional male ballet dancers are straight? 05:37.198 --> 05:38.960 [SPEAKER_02]: Was that the case for your experience? 05:39.862 --> 06:07.646 [SPEAKER_01]: actually yeah I mean surprisingly yes I think it was kind of 50 50 well 50 50 with more leading towards the straight end of things but Hank and I have actually talked about that in you know in our personal DMs and stuff but it is funny that it is like that and I think the more European you go the more straight it is even that like I don't know it's a weird it's a weird thing 06:07.986 --> 06:10.208 [SPEAKER_02]: Where was the company that you danced with that 16? 06:11.269 --> 06:12.690 [SPEAKER_01]: It's called Hubbard Street Dance Chicago. 06:12.710 --> 06:15.813 [SPEAKER_01]: It was in Chicago, and it's also a very contemporary ballet. 06:15.833 --> 06:19.036 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of European choreographers we toured a lot to Europe. 06:20.657 --> 06:24.240 [SPEAKER_01]: So I had to, I had the best dean at high school ever. 06:24.281 --> 06:32.328 [SPEAKER_01]: They let me graduate with everybody on time, but I was touring Germany, and I would be on my computer taking algebra tests and all that stuff. 06:32.348 --> 06:33.449 [SPEAKER_01]: And then I have to like talk in. 06:34.069 --> 06:34.910 [SPEAKER_02]: So you've lived. 06:35.010 --> 06:36.331 [SPEAKER_02]: any lives up until now. 06:37.092 --> 06:39.754 [SPEAKER_02]: Are you comfortable with me asking your age currently? 06:40.495 --> 06:41.136 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm 37. 06:41.836 --> 06:43.558 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh and I'm about to turn 37. 06:43.798 --> 06:44.599 [SPEAKER_02]: Look at us twins. 06:45.560 --> 06:58.072 [SPEAKER_02]: So then Mosultov in the stunning life that you've lived because to be a professional dancer, to have theatre, parents, to have gay, sibling, slash cousins, to have this now art, fashion career. 06:58.212 --> 07:00.454 [SPEAKER_02]: It feels like you continue to evolve. 07:01.234 --> 07:12.460 [SPEAKER_02]: Also speaking of evolutions when you and Bill first started dating I saw the pictures from your 10 year anniversary post You were both like golf twinks when you met and now you're both giving fully hungs. 07:12.560 --> 07:13.440 [SPEAKER_02]: What the fuck happened? 07:14.881 --> 07:15.501 [SPEAKER_01]: The pandemic. 07:15.641 --> 07:16.962 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I I don't know. 07:16.982 --> 07:20.884 [SPEAKER_01]: I've always been sort of slimmer and I mean not in middle school. 07:21.004 --> 07:26.567 [SPEAKER_01]: I was a big kid But by high school I shot up and was just the same way until senior year and then 07:27.367 --> 07:34.975 [SPEAKER_01]: Bill, like over the pandemic, he started working out and I was like, well, I can't be left in the dust. 07:36.016 --> 07:37.518 [SPEAKER_01]: That's very much like our relation. 07:37.558 --> 07:40.441 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not toxic, but it's just very much our push and pull with each other. 07:40.461 --> 07:42.283 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like if you're doing that, then I'm going to do it. 07:42.683 --> 07:43.444 [SPEAKER_01]: Or whatever or so. 07:43.827 --> 07:45.188 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you're growing in positive ways. 07:45.228 --> 07:49.413 [SPEAKER_02]: It's not like you're like, both getting each other into like devastating habits. 07:50.334 --> 07:52.416 [SPEAKER_02]: They're speaking of body dysmorphia. 07:53.517 --> 07:54.698 [SPEAKER_02]: You tweeted this. 07:55.059 --> 07:57.141 [SPEAKER_02]: I keep getting added to these Instagram groups. 07:57.181 --> 08:02.486 [SPEAKER_02]: We're guys sharing news with each other, but everyone is 0% body fat and it's doing a number on me. 08:03.388 --> 08:06.312 [SPEAKER_02]: I have never been invited to these Instagram groups. 08:06.553 --> 08:14.305 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you explain to me and to the listeners how do they work and should I feel lucky that I have not been invited to one? 08:15.652 --> 08:17.273 [SPEAKER_01]: Honestly, yes. 08:18.134 --> 08:26.540 [SPEAKER_01]: They're really cool to sort of meet people that you find are attractive and then you follow each other and then you start your own kind of DM thing. 08:27.121 --> 08:31.644 [SPEAKER_01]: But the notification is just keep going off and off and off and you're just like, oh my god, I got to mute this. 08:31.804 --> 08:32.345 [SPEAKER_01]: It's too well. 08:32.385 --> 08:33.505 [SPEAKER_02]: And what are the notifications? 08:33.525 --> 08:37.068 [SPEAKER_01]: People being like, here's like someone sent a photo, someone sent a video. 08:37.128 --> 08:39.710 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not really any kind of messaging or anything. 08:39.750 --> 08:41.912 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just strictly video and photo. 08:42.592 --> 08:49.655 [SPEAKER_01]: And there comes a point where you can only look at so many dicks in the certain angle away that it's not sexy anymore. 08:50.295 --> 08:53.036 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is sometimes how I find like scrolling Twitter too. 08:53.076 --> 08:56.097 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, this is not doing anything I was just trying to say that. 08:56.557 --> 09:04.140 [SPEAKER_02]: No, isn't it weird or living in a time where Nudes have never been more accessible and yet it can take away some of the specialness of it. 09:04.160 --> 09:11.403 [SPEAKER_02]: Like don't you remember when you were younger and it's like when an old days when a woman would just show her ankle and then all the street guys would glee. 09:12.423 --> 09:18.589 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it, I think it's okay to take a break from looking at Dick, if that would be, say. 09:20.591 --> 09:29.180 [SPEAKER_02]: But I hope you'll forgive me for bobbing around so much, but I want to ask to go back to the gain of civid all. 09:29.600 --> 09:35.646 [SPEAKER_02]: Were you out when you were in high school, doing all the dance, suffered a joy to come out to later? 09:36.979 --> 09:38.080 [SPEAKER_01]: actually never really came out. 09:38.300 --> 09:41.883 [SPEAKER_01]: I kind of just existed. 09:43.685 --> 09:53.072 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't really have a boyfriend and I didn't really have a boyfriend until Bill came along, which is kind of funny because the trajectory of his life was I was the first guy he was ever with. 09:53.753 --> 09:56.375 [SPEAKER_01]: I did hook up with guys before Bill, but I just was not 09:57.192 --> 10:03.774 [SPEAKER_01]: looking for a relationship so I kind of didn't really care to make a big to do about it. 10:03.894 --> 10:16.657 [SPEAKER_01]: And my parents, again, were so cool that it probably wouldn't have surprised them if I came out, but they weren't expecting me to because I'm a very, like, I'm a very pacy's kind of most of the time quiet, introspective person. 10:16.797 --> 10:19.877 [SPEAKER_01]: So I would never make a production out of anything unless I wanted to be. 10:19.897 --> 10:21.718 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know. 10:22.418 --> 10:39.610 [SPEAKER_02]: My first boyfriend was a Pisces, and a lot of my friends now are Pisces, so I find that we have some sort of, I think there's like a kindness with like my sort of frenetic anxiety energy, and then Pisces seem to have more of a grounding force. 10:40.811 --> 10:45.994 [SPEAKER_02]: As a theater queen, it would be against my religion to not ask about the shows your parents did. 10:46.154 --> 10:48.336 [SPEAKER_02]: Remember seeing your parents and any shows back in the day? 10:48.496 --> 10:53.263 [SPEAKER_01]: They didn't really continue on after they had kids, because I have two younger sisters. 10:54.404 --> 10:57.669 [SPEAKER_01]: My dad did trade shows, then we would go to Vegas and stuff, and that was cool. 10:57.709 --> 11:02.956 [SPEAKER_01]: But I remember they did fantastic, they did sometimes the frog, they did follies. 11:03.917 --> 11:17.471 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I was a very song time family, like I grew up with into the woods and which now I find to be one of the more annoying song time musicals, but at the time I was like, I'm sad, you know, what do you say to the gay guys who are angry right now about you calling into the woods annoying? 11:18.032 --> 11:24.438 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I don't think it's annoying, but it's not my first choice of album to put on if I'm listening to soundtrack or whatever. 11:24.779 --> 11:26.160 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, what do you know? 11:27.321 --> 11:30.943 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, if it's on time, I, and obviously it's also a Sunday. 11:31.223 --> 11:38.487 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Sunday in the park has, it's one of those things because we were so, my cousin and I were so young listening to these things together that we didn't, 11:39.563 --> 11:55.800 [SPEAKER_01]: fully grasp the obviously the momentum and the the heaviness of some of them songs and the the story and Sunday was kind of like more boring for me as a kid and now that I'm older I'm like I saw Jake Jillon Hall and Emily Astrid do it and I was like oh my god this is like so cool and so new. 11:55.820 --> 12:02.687 [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't it annoying how hot and good of an actor Jake Jillon Hall is and then he could pull off song time it really pisses you off. 12:03.481 --> 12:07.204 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, and Bill and I are like queuing up to go see Ariana and John O'Neill. 12:07.264 --> 12:07.864 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my lady. 12:07.924 --> 12:08.805 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you going to go see it? 12:09.345 --> 12:10.086 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, for sure, yeah. 12:10.346 --> 12:18.152 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so for anybody who doesn't know Ariana Grande and Jonathan Bailey are doing something in the park with George and London, are our tickets on sale yet? 12:19.073 --> 12:22.775 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think so, but you're going to get Ariana follows Bill, so I'm trying to see. 12:22.815 --> 12:23.876 [SPEAKER_02]: What the hell? 12:24.016 --> 12:24.557 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 12:25.297 --> 12:25.938 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know what? 12:26.158 --> 12:29.720 [SPEAKER_02]: People give name dropping shit, but that is a name drop that needs to be dropped. 12:29.761 --> 12:29.941 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes. 12:32.222 --> 12:33.623 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'll name drop for him. 12:33.683 --> 12:34.604 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll do less of them. 12:35.205 --> 12:36.486 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, name drop for Bill. 12:36.526 --> 12:37.286 [SPEAKER_02]: All you fucking want. 12:37.707 --> 12:41.190 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, no, I'm dying to see Sunning the Park in London, of course. 12:41.590 --> 12:44.332 [SPEAKER_02]: I just can't imagine sitting in a seat of a theater. 12:44.753 --> 12:53.720 [SPEAKER_02]: And then looking around and saying to the gays, I'm with Ariana Grande is about to perform song time live in the color in front of my fucking face. 12:53.961 --> 12:55.182 [SPEAKER_02]: I just, that 12:55.842 --> 12:58.803 [SPEAKER_02]: The people who get to see that are going to be so lucky. 12:58.883 --> 13:00.664 [SPEAKER_02]: I hope to be one of them, but I don't know. 13:00.684 --> 13:05.306 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I don't know Yeah, it's probably going to be a very hard ticket, but we're going to try and hold. 13:06.106 --> 13:19.272 [SPEAKER_02]: Listen, and I also don't want to gloss over Anne Lee Ashford I would say that her performance in legally blonde made me gay when I was watching the legally blonde MTV airing In conjunction with the search for L Woods 13:19.872 --> 13:25.837 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I'm really glad that you're giving us a time for um, musical theater conversation. 13:25.877 --> 13:27.859 [SPEAKER_02]: Hope so thank you so much for telling me. 13:28.420 --> 13:32.363 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and what's our resource we need to add to, um, hopefully you're going to go. 13:32.383 --> 13:36.647 [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that was kind of you love a dark, dark story. 13:37.067 --> 13:38.148 [SPEAKER_02]: You're really fucking do. 13:38.609 --> 13:40.570 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, tell me more about your your gay cousin. 13:40.590 --> 13:41.271 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a boy. 13:41.511 --> 13:45.495 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you both know that each other was gay sort of secretly and 13:48.248 --> 13:50.211 [SPEAKER_01]: I think energetically, probably. 13:50.231 --> 13:58.443 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it was ever, I mean, for me, I was never like, oh, yes, like he had girlfriends in high school and I had things with girls too. 13:58.463 --> 13:59.064 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was just like, 14:00.475 --> 14:19.061 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I was never one to put it aside and be like, hey, are you gay because I'm gay or like, I don't know, but it was just kind of like, it used to think really whatever the word is, you know, not just the other, but yeah, we would play Pokemon and then turn that off and then listen to the company or something, so I don't know, we just. 14:19.661 --> 14:26.544 [SPEAKER_01]: we had and we would wear like blankets on our heads and pretend we were like princesses and oversized shirts and stuff like that. 14:26.824 --> 14:37.327 [SPEAKER_02]: That is such an amazing visual and can we all for a second gift thanks to the people in our lives who would play Pokemon with us and do towel hair wraps with us and listen to company. 14:37.707 --> 14:47.151 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to shout out my friend D. I will grow up playing Pokemon stadium on in 10.064 with D and then we would take Barbie dolls and monster dolls and switch their 14:48.772 --> 14:51.534 [SPEAKER_02]: And D ended up becoming very queer. 14:51.834 --> 14:58.420 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's just a beautiful tradition for the queer kids to find each other. 14:58.440 --> 15:06.307 [SPEAKER_02]: And his epilogue to the cousin, did he end up growing up to be in a gay profession or is he giving like business finance? 15:06.947 --> 15:09.510 [SPEAKER_01]: He isn't theater in New York. 15:10.671 --> 15:12.752 [SPEAKER_02]: Wait, can we get, can we shut him out? 15:12.772 --> 15:13.193 [SPEAKER_02]: What's his name? 15:14.042 --> 15:18.004 [SPEAKER_01]: John McLaughlin, he now lives in Indiana, but wait, is he super tall? 15:19.465 --> 15:21.867 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my god, I think I know, I think I'm at him when I still live in New York. 15:22.307 --> 15:26.029 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure he was just touring with Gilbert and Sullivan players, the Makato. 15:26.930 --> 15:28.210 [SPEAKER_02]: Is he tall and skittin' and thin? 15:28.230 --> 15:32.293 [SPEAKER_02]: I try to make out with your cousin and I'm not sure. 15:33.213 --> 15:33.573 [SPEAKER_02]: happen. 15:33.973 --> 15:35.374 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I wouldn't be all right. 15:35.834 --> 15:36.894 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not joking. 15:37.514 --> 15:42.716 [SPEAKER_02]: When I was like 22 or something, I was at a, I remember that I met him. 15:42.736 --> 15:47.278 [SPEAKER_02]: I was at a gay bar and I like didn't have the hoods, but like, you know, make a move. 15:47.518 --> 15:49.378 [SPEAKER_02]: And I cannot believe it, Dr. Cousin. 15:50.399 --> 15:50.719 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 15:51.319 --> 15:55.040 [SPEAKER_01]: No, it's funny because we, there's so much overlap because we have so many friends in New York. 15:55.160 --> 15:58.221 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, he tours a lot in NLA and proud and sound and stuff. 15:58.261 --> 16:01.182 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can't throw stone without seeing, knowing 16:03.322 --> 16:04.543 [SPEAKER_02]: That's I'm fully gagged. 16:04.603 --> 16:09.487 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, usually like you do like Jewish geography and I like I know that the like the theater gay thing. 16:09.567 --> 16:10.688 [SPEAKER_02]: It's so fucking funny. 16:10.828 --> 16:11.288 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. 16:11.448 --> 16:11.808 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. 16:11.888 --> 16:12.129 [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. 16:14.090 --> 16:26.740 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, speaking of horniness, I am going to be asking you a lot of horny questions about your work, your Twitter, your also personal life over at the when the paywall goes up, but we do want to go into more of. 16:27.500 --> 16:32.342 [SPEAKER_02]: The fashion stuff of it all because you and Bill are both incredible artists and designers. 16:33.143 --> 16:35.904 [SPEAKER_02]: What's going on with the artistry of your tattoos? 16:36.484 --> 16:40.266 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you tell us like what was the first one of any particularly meaningful ones? 16:41.947 --> 16:42.487 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean... 16:43.025 --> 16:44.626 [SPEAKER_01]: For the most part, they are not meaningful. 16:44.646 --> 16:48.729 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just kind of like, it was the era of Amy Winehouse and P. Dorty and stuff. 16:48.749 --> 16:51.451 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was just kind of like grabbing onto that bandwagon. 16:52.012 --> 16:57.976 [SPEAKER_01]: But the minute I turned 18, my older husband Sarah took me to get something on my back that's in Gaelic. 16:58.016 --> 16:58.796 [SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of... 17:00.017 --> 17:04.539 [SPEAKER_01]: to, like, sappy for, like, my, my psyche now. 17:04.559 --> 17:09.221 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just, like, something about, like, the powerful will live to fight another day or something. 17:09.281 --> 17:11.042 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's just, like, I don't know why I got it. 17:11.162 --> 17:13.924 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's, I think it's even in Sanskrit, like, type. 17:14.224 --> 17:16.104 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not, I thought it looked gay like at the time. 17:16.545 --> 17:21.327 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is why kids, you should not get a tattoo at, like, you know, under 18 at least. 17:21.627 --> 17:23.428 [SPEAKER_01]: But, yeah, wait until you know what you want. 17:23.988 --> 17:29.712 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's always the trap to of the different language, and then it's like, you know, some Asian character that means like donut. 17:30.432 --> 17:30.852 [SPEAKER_02]: Totally. 17:31.793 --> 17:35.035 [SPEAKER_02]: That's, I mean, I've talked about too, like I have such commitment issues. 17:35.095 --> 17:40.218 [SPEAKER_02]: I also have the whole like, you know, when you're growing up Jewish, you're told that you can't be buried in the Jewish cemetery. 17:40.238 --> 17:41.799 [SPEAKER_02]: If you have a tattoo on your bodies. 17:42.099 --> 17:42.620 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. 17:43.120 --> 17:55.827 [SPEAKER_02]: So I have always had the fear of literal god g-d put into me, but Matt has been getting tattooed since we moved to LA and they all look so good on him and I don't know. 17:55.888 --> 17:56.588 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 17:57.128 --> 18:05.953 [SPEAKER_02]: If I ever were to get one, maybe I'll consult you to get your advice because you have such a fashion eye and I really don't. 18:07.434 --> 18:15.101 [SPEAKER_02]: What would you recommend for Gaze like me who want to dress well, but we need help in the fashion department? 18:15.422 --> 18:17.203 [SPEAKER_02]: Should I stick to his aura? 18:17.384 --> 18:18.845 [SPEAKER_02]: Should I only go thrifting? 18:18.865 --> 18:19.746 [SPEAKER_02]: What do I do? 18:19.766 --> 18:21.387 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 18:21.427 --> 18:25.931 [SPEAKER_01]: It's funny because I have such a minimalist approach to myself. 18:26.732 --> 18:31.457 [SPEAKER_01]: I just love a T-shirt and jeans and a hat because it's becoming uniform. 18:31.677 --> 18:32.998 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that you 18:33.339 --> 18:36.973 [SPEAKER_01]: When you have a uniform it makes it less of a like mind fuck 18:37.767 --> 18:38.047 [SPEAKER_01]: maybe? 18:38.067 --> 18:39.147 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 18:39.307 --> 18:46.209 [SPEAKER_01]: I used to dress a little crazier in my 20s, like, you know, little more gothy, like Rick Owens, that type of thing. 18:46.929 --> 18:52.951 [SPEAKER_01]: And I kind of didn't know if I was like playing a character, then or like, if that was genuinely me. 18:53.631 --> 19:01.513 [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, like, I had a lot of friends that played in black metal bands and, you know, I would go to Norway and go to all the shows and festivals there. 19:02.213 --> 19:02.753 [SPEAKER_01]: But, um, 19:04.053 --> 19:09.677 [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like kind of an outside early kind of cosplaying, even though like I genuinely love the music and love the people. 19:09.697 --> 19:15.682 [SPEAKER_01]: But I would show up in like, you know, drop crotch pants and like, oh, do you with like a band logo on it and stuff like that? 19:15.762 --> 19:19.845 [SPEAKER_01]: And it just didn't feel like essentially knee. 19:20.025 --> 19:20.145 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 19:20.165 --> 19:22.967 [SPEAKER_01]: But I think I was just trying to like fit in with the crowd and everything. 19:22.987 --> 19:27.050 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the hardest part of, well, one of the hardest parts about growing up. 19:27.070 --> 19:30.573 [SPEAKER_02]: I think is like trying to actually figure out what is your authentic. 19:33.382 --> 19:34.683 [SPEAKER_02]: energy you're authentic self. 19:34.703 --> 19:41.808 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when I was in middle school in high school, I was wearing like baggy khakis and an American Eagle polo shirt. 19:42.068 --> 19:56.618 [SPEAKER_02]: And that's definitely not me, but I still this is like deep and sad, but I think part of the reason I struggle with fashion now is because I don't think I ever allowed myself to go in the path of like something that's really loud. 19:56.838 --> 20:00.240 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I've always been afraid of sticking out in that way. 20:00.360 --> 20:01.661 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I definitely know what 20:04.323 --> 20:11.507 [SPEAKER_02]: I never got to actually experiment because I think I was too afraid to, you know, be ostracized. 20:12.207 --> 20:18.191 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I get it, but I think also it's hard because having this many tattoos and not that I ever think about it. 20:19.171 --> 20:25.155 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that that's more of a stylistic choice so I don't really need to go belittley in that regard. 20:25.855 --> 20:29.817 [SPEAKER_01]: But I do believe in good bags, good shoes, and good coats. 20:31.298 --> 20:38.462 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think anything else can be, you know, a t-shirt from Haynes and you're good, good bags, good shoes, good shirts. 20:39.583 --> 20:41.924 [SPEAKER_02]: Speaking of shirts, who are you wearing tank top-wise? 20:41.984 --> 20:42.825 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm loving this fit. 20:48.588 --> 20:51.252 [SPEAKER_02]: Shout out, shopping in the ladies section. 20:51.672 --> 20:58.441 [SPEAKER_02]: Speaking of ladies though, did I read a false hood that you designed for Gaga's born this way ball? 20:58.501 --> 20:58.982 [SPEAKER_02]: Is that true? 20:59.681 --> 21:00.101 [SPEAKER_01]: I did. 21:00.161 --> 21:03.383 [SPEAKER_01]: She was actually one of my first clients when I did a runway show. 21:03.663 --> 21:08.506 [SPEAKER_01]: And it was kind of like, what was cool about it is that she was already so established. 21:08.526 --> 21:14.329 [SPEAKER_01]: Like it wasn't, we weren't like at the ground floor together, like whatever she sort of saw my stuff out of a line up. 21:14.529 --> 21:27.056 [SPEAKER_01]: And I have to say that I have, um, I had sort of a coalition of like fairy godnothers in the fashion world that sort of ushered me into it all. 21:27.457 --> 21:27.597 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 21:28.417 --> 21:35.980 [SPEAKER_01]: So, Daphne Guinness, who, if anyone has seen photos of her, she's got like a white beehive, black, um, streaks in her hair. 21:37.000 --> 21:42.482 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, she is the, eras to the Guinness Brewery and artist in her own right. 21:43.162 --> 21:53.485 [SPEAKER_01]: She saw my, um, back before my Twitter became spicy, I was doing illustrations, and that's not, she saw my Twitter, and uh, it was like we have to make these things happen. 21:53.786 --> 21:54.226 [SPEAKER_01]: And so, 21:55.266 --> 22:14.061 [SPEAKER_01]: We did, and a month later, I was in the Windows of Barney's on Madison Avenue, and at the F-18 Museum in New York, and that's when a woman who worked for a Jumple Goatier in the PR department, saw my stuff, she contacted me and she was like, I have to represent you. 22:15.102 --> 22:21.508 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and I was kind of like under the table being in the showroom of Go T.A. 22:21.629 --> 22:25.012 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, she should be like, I'll take it to the back and I'll show you this new designer. 22:25.032 --> 22:33.580 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how Gaga saw my stuff and she worked at the, like, a Grammy's pre-party first and then her team started commissioning me for things and, 22:33.880 --> 22:34.880 [SPEAKER_02]: Holy shit. 22:35.381 --> 22:47.646 [SPEAKER_02]: I looked up the deafening and stuff before we chatted and the New York Times article about you at 22 years old and she's sort of showing you around fashion week. 22:47.766 --> 22:50.027 [SPEAKER_02]: I think is incredible. 22:50.127 --> 22:53.309 [SPEAKER_02]: And again, it's a testament to how many fucking lives you have led. 22:54.869 --> 22:56.630 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you get any FaceTime in with Gaga? 22:58.056 --> 23:07.280 [SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, no, it was the thing with celebrities and designers to the most part is that there's a whole team of people in between you guys and the one I'm sure. 23:07.300 --> 23:15.904 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the turnaround is always so fast and so it is, there's never really, maybe if I lived in LA, I would have had the opportunity to do that. 23:16.064 --> 23:20.906 [SPEAKER_01]: But, or New York at the time, but we're producing and still do in Chicago. 23:21.706 --> 23:25.188 [SPEAKER_01]: So I was flying back to make things and then shipping to New York. 23:26.234 --> 23:28.957 [SPEAKER_02]: You and Bill post a lot of incredible outfits on the internet. 23:28.977 --> 23:30.519 [SPEAKER_02]: I implore everybody listening to follow. 23:30.859 --> 23:36.045 [SPEAKER_02]: You actually wore insane outfits to see wicket in theaters with your bare ass out. 23:38.548 --> 23:42.172 [SPEAKER_02]: Before I get any further, can we shout out Bill's new book? 23:43.241 --> 23:43.981 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, please. 23:44.321 --> 23:47.043 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so Bill has a book coming out in August. 23:47.103 --> 23:49.704 [SPEAKER_02]: It is called the Glam Reaper's Guide to Slaying. 23:50.864 --> 23:55.586 [SPEAKER_02]: What do you, I know that you're not Bill, but I know that you were a part of the process. 23:56.047 --> 23:58.868 [SPEAKER_02]: What can we expect with this book? 23:59.668 --> 24:02.771 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just super cute, and it's a picture book for adults. 24:03.131 --> 24:12.198 [SPEAKER_01]: I, as someone who was also super into Edward Gory as a kid, which is also adult children's books. 24:12.418 --> 24:19.724 [SPEAKER_01]: It's right along that line, and I think it's got a lot of heart to it, but it's got a lot of sass, like how Bill's illustrations are. 24:19.744 --> 24:23.527 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I'm really excited for it to be out, and it's gotten such good buzz. 24:24.105 --> 24:37.177 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, and it should that everything I've seen posted about it, the way that he creates art that is both very gay, very witchy, very funny, but also there's a darkness to the humor. 24:37.337 --> 24:47.387 [SPEAKER_02]: I think he is a genius and he also, you know, has a beautiful bush, which I think is always important to to to to point out. 24:47.807 --> 24:56.113 [SPEAKER_02]: When it comes to fashion, especially with these outfits that you either make or source, have you always been so extra? 24:56.173 --> 24:59.496 [SPEAKER_02]: Were you like one of those Halloween kids that was dressing up with crazy shit? 25:00.597 --> 25:00.777 [SPEAKER_01]: No. 25:01.497 --> 25:07.602 [SPEAKER_01]: Up until maybe three years ago, I like had never really sewn myself, either. 25:08.402 --> 25:29.319 [SPEAKER_01]: When I left the dance company, I approached one of the seamstresses who's been with me for their teen years now, and she sort of like slowly taught me how to sew, but the minute I took it upon myself to start making course, it's just for fun, that's when it kind of exploded and I was like, wow, this is something I can do for content and makes me happy and 25:30.123 --> 25:51.376 [SPEAKER_01]: being able to walk around and in these things which is funny though because last Halloween we went to Ptown for the first time for Spooky Bear and Bill and I had these cool costumes of your looks I did to wear for everybody but everyone is so faggy and in their own bubble like no one cared because they were all like worried about themselves. 25:51.896 --> 25:53.037 [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like showing up like Lindsay 25:55.558 --> 26:00.162 [SPEAKER_02]: It's Halloween and everyone's just like making out in the corner not looking. 26:00.663 --> 26:16.457 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah But if people do go back to bills episode about your spooky bear trip to P-town You'll hear a really fun story over on self-dax so make sure you come into that because Were you guys dressed up as a great gardens? 26:17.618 --> 26:20.621 [SPEAKER_01]: He was I I tend to be a little more like 26:22.250 --> 26:22.690 [SPEAKER_01]: mask. 26:22.891 --> 26:23.711 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess, I don't know. 26:24.832 --> 26:33.319 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I always like to have a level of like being attractive and Bill kind of has that thing, we're like, fake teeth in and just go for it. 26:33.539 --> 26:35.721 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we're getting in Yang like that. 26:36.341 --> 26:37.342 [SPEAKER_02]: God, I love it so much. 26:37.822 --> 26:40.524 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, again, congratulations on almost 11 years together. 26:40.604 --> 26:45.848 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that is a pretty spectacular, especially because you collaborate so much. 26:46.889 --> 26:51.673 [SPEAKER_02]: Before we go into character actress, how do you not kill each other as partners and collaborators? 26:52.781 --> 26:53.181 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 26:53.421 --> 26:59.384 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when the pandemic hit, people kept asking, like, how do you live together see each other all the time? 26:59.404 --> 27:07.587 [SPEAKER_01]: But we had from day one, we have not really spent a lot of time apart from each other, and it's not in an attached kind of way. 27:07.607 --> 27:10.248 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just our personalities are like that work. 27:10.428 --> 27:13.069 [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, we really fight. 27:13.149 --> 27:17.351 [SPEAKER_01]: We just like vibes so all together, and 27:18.211 --> 27:32.717 [SPEAKER_02]: Can you can we humanize you for a second when you do fight can you at least tell us like what it's about or like are you like whispering when you're angry at each other like what are we Honestly, it's like the dishwasher or like something mundane. 27:32.977 --> 27:45.382 [SPEAKER_01]: It's never like, I don't know dishes are fraught So I get sure because when we collaborate, it's very like we trust each other to go on either side of the room and create what we want and we know it's going to make sense together 27:46.424 --> 28:05.247 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I think in like, we did have one for the very first time we did a museum piece, I sort of got really excited and made all of my dress sketches first and I was like, okay, now you have to figure out what's going to go with me is then you got a little like myth at that, but as as we've gone on, we've sort of now know how to like flow together. 28:05.267 --> 28:05.328 [SPEAKER_01]: So. 28:06.190 --> 28:07.070 [SPEAKER_02]: That's really beautiful. 28:07.090 --> 28:20.837 [SPEAKER_02]: I cannot tell you how impressed I am that you've managed to do it for over a decade, because it really is not easy to be in a long-term relationship, let alone a relationship and a professional collaborative one. 28:21.697 --> 28:26.619 [SPEAKER_02]: but I am hurting free squirting here a lot of your horny tails. 28:26.699 --> 28:32.821 [SPEAKER_02]: So let me ask you the final podcast question before we cross over to soup stack and that question is Hogan McLaughlin. 28:33.241 --> 28:40.784 [SPEAKER_02]: If the world was ending, you could only save one character, actress, who would you save? 28:42.441 --> 29:01.121 [SPEAKER_01]: This is, this was a hard question for me, because there's so many in the lore of, especially for my family, I would want it to go with Elaine Stritch, because she reminds me of my grandmother, but I would be doing it to serve us to my childhood obsession with Merle Louise if I did not shot her out, way, way Merle Louise. 29:01.822 --> 29:18.627 [SPEAKER_01]: with a he with a brunt I think she originated more son-time roles than anyone else she was in company she was in the original cast of gypsy god she was the granular into the woods I don't like I have this thing for obscure 29:20.708 --> 29:45.278 [SPEAKER_01]: like female characters in shows like I was obsessed with Trudey Campbell and Madman like I was obsessed with like I just like I I latch onto these women that have like two lines of dialogue and then I get really pissed that they're not don't have more screen Okay, two things I need to like green light here number one the fact that you love like a random character Actress especially giving Sontime star beggar woman realness 29:46.018 --> 29:53.225 [SPEAKER_02]: But also the fact that you love the two liner, can I give you a reference that is so not as chic as yours, but it is a little more current. 29:53.525 --> 29:58.250 [SPEAKER_02]: When I was a kid watching scary movie for the first time, which I know there's a new one coming out. 29:58.310 --> 29:58.650 [SPEAKER_02]: Shout out. 29:58.670 --> 29:59.471 [SPEAKER_02]: We should go see it. 30:00.172 --> 30:05.177 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm hoping that they do on affairs and Regina Hall not dirty. 30:05.637 --> 30:25.450 [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and I'm hoping it's great, but in the first scary movie, there's like a three line character that ended up being Marissa Jarrett Winner Kerr from hair spray, the original cast, and it's her in the garage and she gets caught in the little like window of the garage Dump and like the whole thing falls in her and she dies, but she goes, please don't. 30:25.470 --> 30:26.350 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just a day player. 30:26.890 --> 30:30.433 [SPEAKER_02]: I thought her Oh, she keeps hearing noises and she goes 30:31.553 --> 30:34.455 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, Horsey, you scared me too. 30:34.695 --> 30:47.522 [SPEAKER_02]: There's a giant horse like I'm not making any sense, but I just, Marissa Jarrett, when I occur having four lines and the scary movie film is aligned with your mayoralooie thing. 30:47.842 --> 30:53.005 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gay guys loving the character actresses with two words in a movie or a show. 30:55.565 --> 31:00.149 [SPEAKER_02]: So shout out to Mr. Jared Winicker and you can stop the day rate. 31:01.671 --> 31:05.334 [SPEAKER_02]: Before we go over to Substack, will you tell these listeners Hogan where to follow you? 31:05.394 --> 31:11.480 [SPEAKER_01]: And if there's anything else you would like for them to know, I am at Hogan Glufflin on Instagram. 31:11.740 --> 31:17.806 [SPEAKER_01]: I am at Obscure versus Twitter if you want to see some SW type things. 31:18.106 --> 31:19.788 [SPEAKER_01]: Nothing full, but all of these. 31:20.789 --> 31:24.832 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, that's really a non-tiktok or anything because I'm too lazy. 31:25.393 --> 31:25.633 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure. 31:25.893 --> 31:28.035 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you're also taking care of your mental health. 31:28.655 --> 31:30.717 [SPEAKER_02]: But ho, I've linked all that in the description. 31:30.917 --> 31:35.541 [SPEAKER_02]: I do also recommend in addition to your Instagram, which is stunning. 31:35.982 --> 31:36.982 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely stunning. 31:37.303 --> 31:39.845 [SPEAKER_02]: The Twitter is real delicious. 31:42.487 --> 31:45.530 [SPEAKER_00]: Have a gay ass name for a gay ass podcast. 31:46.242 --> 31:57.808 [SPEAKER_02]: You do have a lot of great aspects on Twitter and actually we talked about with Bill how you are not a super hairy dude. 31:58.869 --> 32:02.771 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you love having a hairless ass or do you wish you had more before us? 32:04.350 --> 32:05.931 [SPEAKER_01]: I do wish I had more body hair. 32:06.951 --> 32:11.753 [SPEAKER_01]: I, it's been 10 years trying to grow this facial hair or even, like, well, it's looking good. 32:11.773 --> 32:13.114 [SPEAKER_02]: You're doing the amazing sweetie. 32:13.894 --> 32:14.254 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 32:14.294 --> 32:14.834 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I do. 32:14.934 --> 32:26.659 [SPEAKER_01]: I see you guys, not like Bill's got a hairy butt and it's so hot, but even if I just had like a light dusting of something would be nice, but it's very hard to not just have like one ass error that you're like, okay, what? 32:26.819 --> 32:28.320 [SPEAKER_01]: No, do you block it? 32:29.520 --> 32:47.825 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I just will usually let it be, but I don't know if I'm trying to be let her wave her freak flag down there I asked you before we record if you have any like memorable stories with other formative first hot moments embarrassing are there any hookup tales or dating tales you would like to share with us? 32:48.719 --> 33:02.153 [SPEAKER_02]: For the rest of the interview, head to sub-stack, linked below where you will also find chats with Colin Braun, Rich Burns, Christopher Pattinson, Rosso, Tyler Varval, Sebastian Dino, Cody Silver, Johnny Sibley, Sam Altizer, and more. 33:02.614 --> 33:09.782 [SPEAKER_02]: It's at sub-stack.com slash at Eric Wills, and I will see you there for a gorgeous Harry horny time. 33:09.802 --> 33:10.763 [SPEAKER_02]: I love you, bye!