WEBVTT 00:06.105 --> 00:08.427 [SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the Lord of the Rings' lorecast. 00:09.327 --> 00:14.831 [SPEAKER_00]: The show that explores the background of Tolkien's amazing world, from the very beginning. 00:25.578 --> 00:33.620 [SPEAKER_00]: As we continue into the third chapter of the Fellowship of the Ring, there are some things I want you to pay specific attention to in the section. 00:34.200 --> 00:37.441 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, we've just left on the journey. 00:37.861 --> 00:40.041 [SPEAKER_00]: And we have Frodo and Sam and Pippin. 00:40.301 --> 00:47.803 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it's different than in the movie, surprise, surprise, leaving from Bagend and journeying across country. 00:48.323 --> 00:49.583 [SPEAKER_00]: in order to get to Buckland. 00:50.124 --> 00:57.026 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is the calm before the storm moment of this beginning part of the journey. 00:57.366 --> 01:03.288 [SPEAKER_00]: We got that slight hint that something was going on, somebody suspicious was talking to the old gaffer. 01:03.888 --> 01:20.667 [SPEAKER_00]: But other than that, the characters are not really worried, they're not stressed right now about being pursued or worried about any specific danger other than just being careful to avoid the other hobbits and not spread more rumors about what's going on. 01:21.338 --> 01:31.141 [SPEAKER_00]: So, of course, we're going to get some descriptions of trees in the countryside and what it's like to be traveling across the shire out in the less populated sections of it. 01:31.761 --> 01:37.623 [SPEAKER_00]: But we're also going to get a more personal look at the different characters. 01:38.143 --> 01:43.845 [SPEAKER_00]: We've seen a good bit of Frodo so far and a little bit of Sam and a very small amount about Pippin. 01:44.345 --> 01:50.388 [SPEAKER_00]: But this is our first chance to really get a sense of who they are, not just in and of themselves. 01:50.888 --> 01:57.431 [SPEAKER_00]: What is Frodo like as Frodo, and what is pippin' like as the closest thing to a princeling in the Shire? 01:58.292 --> 02:00.673 [SPEAKER_00]: But how do they interact with each other? 02:01.513 --> 02:20.229 [SPEAKER_00]: And this brings about distinct differences between the world of the Shire, the world of the Hobbits, and our own current day society, because what's going on here is much more similar to the way British society worked a hundred years ago than it does today. 02:20.970 --> 02:25.693 [SPEAKER_00]: And I'll be pointing out this stuff as we go through it and digging even deeper into it in the bonus episode this week. 02:25.753 --> 02:28.355 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you are one of our patrons, get ready for that. 02:28.855 --> 02:33.018 [SPEAKER_00]: But here, let's get into it as they begin their journey away from back end. 02:53.245 --> 03:03.229 [SPEAKER_00]: One of the other little parts I like about the way Tolkien describes traveling is that if you have a map open, a lot of the time you can track exactly where they're going by the descriptions. 03:03.750 --> 03:10.533 [SPEAKER_00]: This section starts with at the bottom of the hill on its western side, they came to a gate opening on a narrow lane. 03:11.213 --> 03:14.275 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you open up the map, you can kind of tell where this is going. 03:14.656 --> 03:19.299 [SPEAKER_00]: They halted, they adjusted their straps, and we get our first dialogue between the different characters. 03:19.359 --> 03:26.305 [SPEAKER_00]: We're told that Sam shows up and he's trotting quickly, he's breathing hard, and he has a very heavy pack. 03:26.945 --> 03:28.947 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's hoisted, high on his shoulders. 03:28.987 --> 03:43.163 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure why it's hoisted as high as up on his shoulders, but maybe it's easier to carry like that, or maybe this was a tradition that Tolkien was familiar with about packing everything higher up rather than further back on your back in order to balance better. 03:43.743 --> 03:44.723 [SPEAKER_00]: 100% sure about that. 03:45.023 --> 03:46.564 [SPEAKER_00]: But we get some interesting details here. 03:46.644 --> 03:57.748 [SPEAKER_00]: First, we're told that he looks very much like a dwarf because he had a felt bag on his head like a hat and he was carrying a bunch of stuff. 03:58.348 --> 03:58.488 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, 03:58.848 --> 04:08.793 [SPEAKER_00]: This is probably a comical moment as to just kind of picture what he looks like in our minds, but also we have positive associations with dwarves. 04:08.873 --> 04:20.538 [SPEAKER_00]: Those of us who have been part of this story since before this book started in the Hobbit and Sam acting like a dwarf in this situation would be a positive reference. 04:21.098 --> 04:23.139 [SPEAKER_00]: and in some ways he kind of is a dwarf. 04:23.299 --> 04:26.900 [SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of a little bit more hearty than the average hobbit. 04:26.960 --> 04:30.662 [SPEAKER_00]: He's used to working hard and physical labor and that sort of thing. 04:31.042 --> 04:32.582 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get this conversation. 04:33.243 --> 04:36.084 [SPEAKER_00]: I am sure you have given me all the heaviest stuff, said Frodo. 04:36.504 --> 04:39.465 [SPEAKER_00]: I pity snails, and all that carry their homes on their backs. 04:39.905 --> 04:45.653 [SPEAKER_00]: We were just told that Sam had a very large pack and here Frodo is lamenting the fact that he seems to be carrying a ton of stuff. 04:46.434 --> 04:47.396 [SPEAKER_00]: Then we get a response. 04:48.117 --> 04:49.659 [SPEAKER_00]: I could take a lot more yet, Sir. 04:49.799 --> 04:53.023 [SPEAKER_00]: My pack is quite light, so that Sam stoutly and untruthfully. 04:53.664 --> 04:56.528 [SPEAKER_00]: So we are starting to understand who Sam is here. 04:57.289 --> 04:58.650 [SPEAKER_00]: No, you don't Sam said, Pippin. 04:59.051 --> 04:59.751 [SPEAKER_00]: It is good for him. 05:00.031 --> 05:02.293 [SPEAKER_00]: He's got nothing except what he ordered us to pack. 05:02.633 --> 05:06.777 [SPEAKER_00]: He's been slack lately and he'll feel the weight less when he's walked off some of his own. 05:07.357 --> 05:13.342 [SPEAKER_00]: See, you get some of that like teasing between Pippin and Frodo as if they've known each other a long time. 05:13.782 --> 05:18.266 [SPEAKER_00]: And Sam is the, well, he's not included in that social connection. 05:18.686 --> 05:20.668 [SPEAKER_00]: He is an employee. 05:26.372 --> 05:33.801 [SPEAKER_00]: at least in our own world in the British society that this is based off of meant that Sam had to interact with both of them differently. 05:34.242 --> 05:44.694 [SPEAKER_00]: The fact that Sam would be willing to take on more was his role in the social hierarchy, not because he was being paid in this moment to carry more stuff. 05:45.235 --> 05:55.163 [SPEAKER_00]: And I would imagine that to most of us in the United States who are reading through this book that if you actually start paying attention to the way this dialogue works, it comes across kind of odd. 05:55.584 --> 06:10.276 [SPEAKER_00]: We don't have the same assumptions about social class and those kinds of things that you do in these more, we'll call them old world systems that were more influenced by feudalism and the history of these types of social structures. 06:10.836 --> 06:12.138 [SPEAKER_00]: In the US, even if 06:12.818 --> 06:19.380 [SPEAKER_00]: Sam's the Gardener and he gets hired by Frodo, there's no assumption that he's going to be doing more of the work on the trip. 06:19.960 --> 06:24.942 [SPEAKER_00]: But also notice that Pippin can chime in and tell Sam what to do even though Sam doesn't work for Pippin. 06:25.482 --> 06:31.324 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get Frodo's response that really puts him in a light too, it shows that he is a caring individual. 06:31.884 --> 06:37.109 [SPEAKER_00]: He says in a joking manner, be kind to a poor old Hobbit, being that he's older than both Sam and Pippin. 06:37.929 --> 06:44.435 [SPEAKER_00]: He laughs and says, I shall be as thin as a Willow wand I'm sure before I get to Buckland, but I was talking nonsense. 06:44.515 --> 06:49.179 [SPEAKER_00]: I suspect you have taken more than your share Sam, and I shall look into it at our next packing. 06:49.739 --> 06:55.925 [SPEAKER_00]: And then he picks up a stick and he says, well, we all like walking in the dark, so let's put some miles behind us before bed. 06:56.465 --> 07:04.247 [SPEAKER_00]: Frodo isn't just a caring individual, he's not just a good master or good employer if you want to look at it that way. 07:04.367 --> 07:12.110 [SPEAKER_00]: He's also a caring person who actually has a relationship with Sam and knows that Sam is the kind of person who will 07:12.930 --> 07:19.377 [SPEAKER_00]: begrudgingly take on more than he needs to because he's just that nice of a guy and he genuinely cares. 07:19.858 --> 07:30.410 [SPEAKER_00]: And so you can see already this interplay between the two of them where they both are being polite and kind towards each other simultaneously. 07:30.890 --> 07:51.603 [SPEAKER_00]: So they begin walking single-file between hedgeros and these sections of the shire in the countryside that weren't meant for traveling, they're avoiding the main road, and it gets dark, and it's so dark that we're told that in their cloaks they were as invisible as if they had magic rings. 07:52.043 --> 07:57.049 [SPEAKER_00]: We're being reminded here through the connection to a magic ring, which we've already had experience with in this book. 07:57.449 --> 08:00.092 [SPEAKER_00]: And Hobbits, when they want to, can be very, very quiet. 08:00.172 --> 08:05.138 [SPEAKER_00]: This was one of the reasons why Bilbo became the burglar on the journey in the Hobbit. 08:05.638 --> 08:07.420 [SPEAKER_00]: And these three Hobbits are no different. 08:08.021 --> 08:13.727 [SPEAKER_00]: Since they were all hobbits, and were trying to be silent, they made no noise that even hobbits would hear. 08:14.247 --> 08:18.511 [SPEAKER_00]: Even the wild things in the fields and woods hardly noticed their passing. 08:19.052 --> 08:22.615 [SPEAKER_00]: Talking treats this almost like it's a supernatural ability. 08:22.996 --> 08:32.105 [SPEAKER_00]: It's almost like this is the hobbit equivalent to the magic of the elves and how the elves can do things like talk to nature and nature responds. 08:32.565 --> 08:36.250 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the hobbits have little bits of this, it feels like. 08:36.311 --> 08:39.395 [SPEAKER_00]: Not exactly the same kind of thing and not exactly magic. 08:39.816 --> 08:47.086 [SPEAKER_00]: More like they are part of their environment in a natural way that lends them this ability. 08:47.587 --> 08:59.233 [SPEAKER_00]: and it is greater than we would naturally assume because this ability is better at doing this being silent and unnoticed than anybody that we've ever seen in the real world. 08:59.773 --> 09:04.776 [SPEAKER_00]: So it has to be pointed out now before it becomes absolutely crucial to their mission. 09:05.296 --> 09:12.500 [SPEAKER_00]: And then if Tolkien had planted this later on without giving us a heads up about it, it would have been like, oh, well, that was convenient. 09:12.520 --> 09:14.261 [SPEAKER_00]: Who knew that they could just basically 09:17.222 --> 09:22.007 [SPEAKER_00]: In a moment where there is no tension, there is no danger, they're just simply being careful. 09:22.487 --> 09:26.591 [SPEAKER_00]: So when this comes up again in the future, we go, oh yeah, that's where do you know that about Hobbit? 09:26.611 --> 09:27.232 [SPEAKER_00]: That makes sense. 09:27.592 --> 09:30.134 [SPEAKER_00]: In movies, this would be called a check-off's gun moment. 09:30.415 --> 09:38.943 [SPEAKER_00]: You display the thing before it becomes crucial to the plot, so that when it does become crucial to the plot, it feels natural to the audience that it is there. 09:39.443 --> 09:44.491 [SPEAKER_00]: The flip side is you don't reveal things like this unless they're going to be useful later. 09:44.971 --> 09:54.946 [SPEAKER_00]: And some authors do to kind of throw you off, but most of the time when something like this is pointed out, it is important, but maybe not exactly important in this exact moment. 09:55.407 --> 09:57.529 [SPEAKER_00]: That was a lot of execs, but we're gonna move on. 09:58.049 --> 10:01.613 [SPEAKER_00]: And if you're charting the journey on a map, this is the next part you can chart. 10:01.673 --> 10:04.115 [SPEAKER_00]: They cross over some water, west of Hobbiton. 10:04.155 --> 10:07.418 [SPEAKER_00]: So you can look on Tolkien's map and go, okay, there's Hobbiton. 10:07.618 --> 10:09.420 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, there's some water over there. 10:09.460 --> 10:10.621 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a river over here. 10:10.661 --> 10:11.501 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a road over here. 10:11.782 --> 10:13.563 [SPEAKER_00]: You can kind of pick out where they're going. 10:13.904 --> 10:17.046 [SPEAKER_00]: And they cross this little river over just a plank of wood. 10:17.547 --> 10:19.549 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're told that there are alder trees. 10:20.129 --> 10:24.756 [SPEAKER_00]: When they get to the great road, another mile or two later, they hastily cross it. 10:24.916 --> 10:33.248 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, they're trying to stay off of the roads, but they need to sometimes use the roads or cross over them so they have to be extra careful there. 10:33.758 --> 10:38.521 [SPEAKER_00]: We also get moments that show the mental and emotional state of the Hobbits. 10:38.901 --> 10:42.504 [SPEAKER_00]: For example, as they continue further on, we get this passage. 10:42.984 --> 10:49.769 [SPEAKER_00]: When the light of the last farm was behind us, peeping among the trees, Frodo turned and waved a hand and farewell. 10:50.369 --> 10:54.012 [SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if I shall ever look down into the valley again, he said quietly. 10:54.692 --> 10:58.173 [SPEAKER_00]: They walk on for a few more hours, and then we get this description of the night. 10:58.433 --> 11:03.315 [SPEAKER_00]: And again, every time Tolkien does this, it feels important, at least to me. 11:03.975 --> 11:06.936 [SPEAKER_00]: The night was clear, cool, and starry. 11:07.316 --> 11:09.977 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, mention of the stars, but 11:10.897 --> 11:17.439 [SPEAKER_00]: Smoke-like whispers of mist were creeping up the hillside from the streams and deep meadows. 11:18.099 --> 11:21.059 [SPEAKER_00]: Now this feels like it makes sense. 11:21.300 --> 11:31.102 [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes, late at night, early in the morning hours, you will have the build-up of mist and dew as the temperature shifts and the air adjusts. 11:31.722 --> 11:51.182 [SPEAKER_00]: But if we look at it in parallel to what we know is happening with the Hobbits, we have a clear, cool, and story, think story as blessed by the Valar, kind of night, that's being encroached upon by not just whispers of mist but smoke like whispers of mist. 11:51.622 --> 11:58.187 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's really tricky to say clearly into a podcast microphone, but what does that look like when you visualize it? 11:58.507 --> 12:10.536 [SPEAKER_00]: It looks like black tendrils encroaching on the clear and pleasant countryside, almost like black figures creeping up behind our heroes. 12:11.036 --> 12:13.178 [SPEAKER_00]: And we know that's exactly what's happening. 12:13.538 --> 12:18.062 [SPEAKER_00]: They are already being pursued by ring rates, and they don't know it yet. 12:18.742 --> 12:22.504 [SPEAKER_00]: And this little description gives us the subtlest of hints about that. 12:23.164 --> 12:29.787 [SPEAKER_00]: In this paragraph, Tolkien mentions thin-clad birch trees, and so we've got our second tree mentioned in this section. 12:30.487 --> 12:32.728 [SPEAKER_00]: They take a little break for some supper. 12:32.788 --> 12:38.731 [SPEAKER_00]: A frugal supper for Hobbit says it says, and that probably means like a regular supper for any of us. 12:39.151 --> 12:42.013 [SPEAKER_00]: And then if you're following along on a map, we get another update. 12:42.353 --> 12:44.814 [SPEAKER_00]: They're headed to woodhall and stock. 12:45.274 --> 12:47.795 [SPEAKER_00]: And so those are in the eastern part of the Shire. 12:47.835 --> 12:53.338 [SPEAKER_00]: They're heading towards Buckland specifically to Buckleberry ferry in order to get across the river. 12:53.958 --> 13:05.884 [SPEAKER_00]: And in order to get there, they're in the outskirts of the little villages and places along the way in a place called Green Hills towards Woody End, which again is on the map. 13:06.264 --> 13:13.788 [SPEAKER_00]: If you look at the forest in the center part of the Shire, it's kind of the eastern slightly southern part of that forested area. 13:14.288 --> 13:18.809 [SPEAKER_00]: And now that they're further away from Hobbit Society, they start to relax a little bit. 13:18.829 --> 13:27.271 [SPEAKER_00]: They talk, they hum some tunes together on the road, and they're not too worried about being found because they're so far from where anybody would be. 13:27.811 --> 13:33.513 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're soon reminded that both Pippin and Frodo are of the more comfortable type of Hobbit. 13:33.573 --> 13:39.934 [SPEAKER_00]: They are their higher level society people who are used to their comfy beds and things like that. 13:44.295 --> 13:47.198 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a little dramatic, and then he says, are you going to sleep on your legs? 13:47.298 --> 13:49.660 [SPEAKER_00]: It's nearly midnight, nearly midnight. 13:49.740 --> 13:51.021 [SPEAKER_00]: It's so late, right? 13:51.562 --> 13:54.905 [SPEAKER_00]: And Frodo responds in a playful way. 13:55.085 --> 13:58.228 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought you liked walking in the dark, but there is no great hurry. 13:58.688 --> 13:59.789 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we're given a time frame. 13:59.829 --> 14:05.034 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, Mary expects us some time the day after tomorrow, but that leaves us nearly two more days. 14:05.615 --> 14:07.617 [SPEAKER_00]: We'll halt at the first likely stop. 14:08.117 --> 14:11.099 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get this interesting observation by Sam. 14:11.219 --> 14:18.263 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, the winds in the west, if we get to the other side of this hill, we shall find a spot that is sheltered and snug enough, sir. 14:18.824 --> 14:22.306 [SPEAKER_00]: There is a dry fur wood just ahead, another tree reference. 14:22.686 --> 14:28.830 [SPEAKER_00]: If I remember rightly, Sam knew the land well within 20 miles of Hobbiton, but that was the limit of his geography. 14:29.370 --> 14:46.765 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, it's interesting that Sam has a sense of this, a sense that traveling at nights and resting means you should take awareness of the wind and the way the land is set in order to find a comfortable place to lay down and sleep so that you're not disturbed or too cold or whatever. 14:47.165 --> 14:52.750 [SPEAKER_00]: But we know Sam hasn't traveled a ton because he says that he's only been about 20 miles out of Hobbiton. 14:53.170 --> 14:54.952 [SPEAKER_00]: He really hasn't gone anywhere. 14:55.592 --> 15:02.597 [SPEAKER_00]: but he has this natural understanding of being in nature, being outside and even traveling at night. 15:03.037 --> 15:09.302 [SPEAKER_00]: So they set up a little fire and they figure out where they're going to sleep and we're specifically told that there was no watch. 15:09.422 --> 15:16.467 [SPEAKER_00]: They didn't set any plan for any one of them to be awake at different times in order to protect the camp. 15:16.927 --> 15:19.348 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is something that happens a lot in these books. 15:19.408 --> 15:32.851 [SPEAKER_00]: I remember, as a kid, thinking this was very interesting how people would take turns watching, and that clearly feels like something you do when you're in the military during something like World War I, but it also makes sense here. 15:32.871 --> 15:35.292 [SPEAKER_00]: But in this moment, they aren't worried. 15:35.392 --> 15:36.352 [SPEAKER_00]: They are lighting a fire. 15:36.772 --> 15:39.893 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not in fear of being pursued or anything. 15:39.993 --> 15:42.494 [SPEAKER_00]: They just thought there were no Zeyther Hobbits around. 15:42.954 --> 15:49.218 [SPEAKER_00]: And at this point, they're way far away from where the towns and villages are, that there's very, very small chance there's anybody out here. 15:49.838 --> 16:06.508 [SPEAKER_00]: And just in this moment, we get a little bit of a glimpse, a little tiny piece of Tolkien's fairy tale enjoyment here, because we haven't had anything other than what you could call typical magic fantasy kind of stuff, you know, 16:11.091 --> 16:16.096 [SPEAKER_00]: fairy tale kinds of things yet, and Tolkien plants this in right here. 16:16.156 --> 16:21.522 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, a fox passed through the wood on business of his own, stopped several minutes and sniffed. 16:22.002 --> 16:26.006 [SPEAKER_00]: Hobbits, he thought, we get the actual internal dialogue of a fox. 16:26.587 --> 16:27.347 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, what next? 16:27.748 --> 16:32.570 [SPEAKER_00]: I have heard of strange doings in this land, but I have seldom heard of a hobbit sleeping out of doors under a tree. 16:33.070 --> 16:33.770 [SPEAKER_00]: Three of them. 16:34.131 --> 16:35.751 [SPEAKER_00]: There's something mighty queer behind this. 16:36.252 --> 16:37.092 [SPEAKER_00]: He was quite right. 16:37.492 --> 16:39.393 [SPEAKER_00]: But he never found out any more about it. 16:39.913 --> 16:43.215 [SPEAKER_00]: And this tone feels like a callback to the hobbit. 16:43.755 --> 16:44.535 [SPEAKER_00]: And it might be that. 16:44.595 --> 16:51.397 [SPEAKER_00]: It might be talking inserting the kinds of things that he enjoys to read in stories and just making it feel a little bit more playful. 16:51.957 --> 16:59.039 [SPEAKER_00]: But it also informs us from a third party source about what we can expect about Hobbits. 16:59.480 --> 17:00.740 [SPEAKER_00]: That this is very weird. 17:01.140 --> 17:05.801 [SPEAKER_00]: Then journey at night, Hobbits outdoors under a tree, this doesn't happen. 17:06.182 --> 17:10.643 [SPEAKER_00]: Which is part of why they can feel safe, lighting a fire, talking openly, not having a watch. 17:11.143 --> 17:20.672 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get more reminders about how, well, pampered Frodo and Pippin' R. Frodo complains about not having his feather bed and sleeping on a route. 17:21.133 --> 17:25.337 [SPEAKER_00]: Then he says it's a beautiful morning and Pippin' responds, what's beautiful about it? 17:25.938 --> 17:30.322 [SPEAKER_00]: And then, in a moment that really stands out to me, he commands Sam. 17:30.462 --> 17:33.605 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, Sam, get breakfast ready for half past nine. 17:33.885 --> 17:35.267 [SPEAKER_00]: Have you got the bath water hot? 17:35.787 --> 17:42.932 [SPEAKER_00]: And Sam jumps up, and we're told that he looks rather blurry, he was deepest sleep still, and he says, no sir, I haven't said. 17:43.773 --> 17:49.797 [SPEAKER_00]: This feels like Pippin is like his commanding officer or something like that, but he's not. 17:50.177 --> 17:56.902 [SPEAKER_00]: Remember, Pippin is the closest thing to aristocracy here, and Sam is a blue collar worker. 17:57.462 --> 18:10.309 [SPEAKER_00]: and in society, if we go back in time to British society and specifically here in the Shire, that means that Pippin can tell Sam what to do, and Sam will respond and do it. 18:10.829 --> 18:21.195 [SPEAKER_00]: And we, in the current world, would look at this as abusive, or maybe not abusive, but taking advantage of the different power structure. 18:26.298 --> 18:47.288 [SPEAKER_00]: There was a time where it was seen that somebody like Sam, a blue collar worker, bending over backwards in order to take care of his, putting this in quotes here, betters, was seen as a positive thing that was seen as loyalty, that was seen as loving your master in doing what you should as the servant because that was your lot in life. 18:47.908 --> 18:51.750 [SPEAKER_00]: And there's a reason why I keep pointing this out, and why it's in this part of the story. 18:52.450 --> 18:54.350 [SPEAKER_00]: this develops over time. 18:54.731 --> 19:01.032 [SPEAKER_00]: Just like we get character growth and character arcs, we get relationship growth and relationship arcs. 19:01.492 --> 19:14.095 [SPEAKER_00]: At this point in the story, both Pippin and Frodo, although Frodo is kinder, look at Sam as a lesser than, as a worker, as somebody who is not of the same social status. 19:14.675 --> 19:25.663 [SPEAKER_00]: But Frodo treats him more like a person, as a friend, and as the story goes on, pay attention to this, because the hobbits and the dynamic between them will change. 19:26.543 --> 19:38.552 [SPEAKER_00]: Sam never gets to a place where he doesn't call Frodo Mr. Frodo, which is very polite, but Sam's status in their eyes is elevated over time, especially by the time they get back to the shire at the end of the story. 19:38.992 --> 19:40.113 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a long way out from now. 19:40.493 --> 19:45.257 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, immediately after Sam response, it says, no, I haven't certainly jumps up to start preparing food. 19:45.778 --> 19:51.142 [SPEAKER_00]: Frodo stripped to the blankets from Pippin and rolled him over and then walked off to the edge of the wood. 19:51.542 --> 19:56.487 [SPEAKER_00]: And this is just a quick little reference, but I have a feeling this is Frodo just being like, Pippin get up. 19:57.067 --> 20:02.152 [SPEAKER_00]: It's just like it's Tupy and a lazy bum, and then we get this beautiful description of nature. 20:02.492 --> 20:13.723 [SPEAKER_00]: A way eastward the sun was rising red out of the mist that lay thick on the world, touched with gold and red, the autumn trees seem to be sailing rootless in a shadowy sea. 20:14.324 --> 20:18.388 [SPEAKER_00]: Notice again the juxtaposition between the light and the darkness. 20:18.948 --> 20:25.254 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we get another playful dynamic between the Hobbits, Frodo returns to them, and they have the fire going. 20:25.534 --> 20:27.636 [SPEAKER_00]: And Pippin' Shouts Water, where's the water? 20:27.756 --> 20:31.319 [SPEAKER_00]: And the Frodo response, kind of a smart Alex sort of way. 20:31.339 --> 20:33.121 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't keep water in my pockets. 20:34.242 --> 20:40.948 [SPEAKER_00]: Then Pippin' says, we thought you had gone to find some, and he's busy setting up the food in the cups, and setting everything up. 20:41.008 --> 20:43.050 [SPEAKER_00]: Notice he doesn't just leave it all to Sam. 20:43.410 --> 20:44.571 [SPEAKER_00]: He does contribute some. 20:44.771 --> 20:52.313 [SPEAKER_00]: but the relationship and the conversation onus is on Sam doing the things, even though Pippin is helping out. 20:52.613 --> 20:56.334 [SPEAKER_00]: And now demanding that Frodo, well we'll go get the water, what are you doing? 20:56.814 --> 20:58.435 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Frodo's like, well you can come too. 20:58.675 --> 21:01.236 [SPEAKER_00]: And so they grab all the water bottles and they head down to a stream. 21:01.716 --> 21:06.917 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're given more not just visuals, but I guess you could call them kinetic descriptions. 21:07.657 --> 21:12.779 [SPEAKER_00]: The water was icy cold and they spotted and puffed as they bathed their faces and hands. 21:13.279 --> 21:14.420 [SPEAKER_00]: which makes sense, right? 21:14.440 --> 21:15.361 [SPEAKER_00]: They're out in the wilderness. 21:15.381 --> 21:18.404 [SPEAKER_00]: Their hands and their faces are probably kind of dirty at this point. 21:18.645 --> 21:26.613 [SPEAKER_00]: So they're using the opportunity to splash it on their faces, but they can't really take a bath, the water's too cold, so this is the best that we'll do for the moment. 21:27.033 --> 21:32.219 [SPEAKER_00]: And if any of you, any of us, have ever been on a hike in the woods, you know what this is like. 21:32.719 --> 21:37.321 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not like you can just take a moment and go to the bathroom and just wash up in the sink. 21:37.841 --> 21:39.022 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't work like that. 21:39.242 --> 21:44.964 [SPEAKER_00]: You have to take advantage of the moments where you do find some water and you can briefly use it to clean yourself off. 21:45.404 --> 21:55.048 [SPEAKER_00]: And then they pack up and they decide to continue on their journey and they realize that their cloaks and blankets and water and food and gear already seem to have you. 21:55.068 --> 21:57.309 [SPEAKER_00]: But it just seems even more heavy on the second day. 21:57.689 --> 22:00.110 [SPEAKER_00]: And we're given more descriptions about the way 22:00.690 --> 22:02.231 [SPEAKER_00]: the landscape works. 22:02.311 --> 22:12.036 [SPEAKER_00]: It seems to continue going up and down and then it climbs to the top of a steep bank in a weary zigzag sort of way and then they're prepared to go down one last time. 22:12.677 --> 22:19.720 [SPEAKER_00]: And then below them they can see the trees and how in the distance the trees melt away. 22:20.201 --> 22:25.904 [SPEAKER_00]: That exact phrase is used and I think it works really well as you see things in the distance kind of blur together. 22:26.564 --> 22:30.207 [SPEAKER_00]: They were looking across the woody end towards the Brandywine River. 22:30.508 --> 22:38.255 [SPEAKER_00]: So now we know again where they are on the map, they've traveled a considerable distance across the Shire, already, and they're getting close to the Brandywine. 22:38.775 --> 22:41.798 [SPEAKER_00]: And this section ends with this fun back and forth between the Hobbits. 22:42.298 --> 22:46.302 [SPEAKER_00]: Pippin says, the road goes on forever, but I can't, without a rest. 22:46.882 --> 22:47.843 [SPEAKER_00]: It is high time for lunch. 22:48.464 --> 22:51.266 [SPEAKER_00]: Again, knees the first one to be like alright guys, let's take a break. 22:51.987 --> 22:57.249 [SPEAKER_00]: And I hope you're noticing that the personality of Pippin in the book is different than it is in the movies. 22:57.830 --> 23:01.471 [SPEAKER_00]: In the movies, he's played as more of a dummy than he shows up here. 23:02.032 --> 23:03.672 [SPEAKER_00]: And I could see why they would do that. 23:03.812 --> 23:07.374 [SPEAKER_00]: In this he's more of a pampered aristocrat. 23:07.674 --> 23:09.015 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that he's not smart. 23:09.055 --> 23:10.395 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't come across not smart. 23:10.455 --> 23:15.478 [SPEAKER_00]: He just comes across as somebody who is used to the world providing for him. 23:15.898 --> 23:20.640 [SPEAKER_00]: And any extra effort is a little bit more than he initially would want to put into something. 23:21.188 --> 23:27.491 [SPEAKER_00]: but he did sign up for the journey and he is here with them and he is contributing so he's not a complete loss. 23:27.751 --> 23:40.956 [SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't come across as a terrible person just more of like somebody who's out of their element and it's this moment that Sam takes a look around and he realizes that he's journeying further than he's ever been before. 23:41.056 --> 23:44.258 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a very similar moment in the movies but it's different here. 23:44.938 --> 23:49.705 [SPEAKER_00]: and Sam asks, do elves live in those woods and Pippin response not that I ever heard? 23:50.246 --> 24:01.341 [SPEAKER_00]: And Frodo is silent here, and then he speaks out, but to himself, saying slowly, basically a poem that just came to mind in the moment. 24:01.986 --> 24:21.844 [SPEAKER_00]: He says, the road goes ever on and on, down from the door where it began, and far ahead the road has gone, and I must follow if I can, pursuing it with weary feet until it joins some larger way, where many paths and errands meet, and wither then, I cannot say. 24:22.525 --> 24:32.133 [SPEAKER_00]: And we have to remember that songs in our world today, and poetry in those types of things, play a very different role than they did historically. 24:32.713 --> 24:45.443 [SPEAKER_00]: Information is so easy to come across in today's world, and if you want to train yourself in the ways to write a poem, you can look up online and find thousands and thousands of articles and videos about 24:45.823 --> 24:55.911 [SPEAKER_00]: how poetry works and how best to format your poetry and what words work and how rhyming works and the meter and all of these types of things. 24:56.431 --> 25:05.058 [SPEAKER_00]: But that wasn't common knowledge for most of human history and it often wasn't even written down in books through instructional means. 25:05.518 --> 25:10.142 [SPEAKER_00]: If you were somebody who could compose a poem or sing a song or write a song, 25:10.622 --> 25:23.950 [SPEAKER_00]: then it was because you were the kind of person who probably grew up in a family that did that, and you just threw us Moses learned how to do these things by just being near it a lot. 25:24.291 --> 25:32.496 [SPEAKER_00]: And what that means is that it felt to people who did not grow up in musical or artistic families like magic. 25:33.036 --> 25:36.740 [SPEAKER_00]: I see glimpses of this with my parents who are now in their 70s. 25:37.141 --> 25:41.286 [SPEAKER_00]: This mindset of wonder about other people's talents and skills. 25:41.726 --> 25:52.979 [SPEAKER_00]: Oftentimes when my mom will say something like, we were watching a TV program the other day and this person was an amazing guitar player and they played better than anyone I've ever seen. 25:53.680 --> 26:02.124 [SPEAKER_00]: And they'll show me the clip and I'm like, well, okay, there's a lot of guitar players who can play just as well as that person did, but I'm glad you enjoyed the performance. 26:02.604 --> 26:05.085 [SPEAKER_00]: But what's actually going on here is a little bit more nuanced. 26:05.285 --> 26:07.526 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that she hasn't seen other guitar players. 26:07.586 --> 26:09.527 [SPEAKER_00]: It's not that she hasn't listened to music. 26:09.867 --> 26:10.647 [SPEAKER_00]: She loves music. 26:10.767 --> 26:13.929 [SPEAKER_00]: She's been into music in different artists her entire life. 26:14.509 --> 26:21.412 [SPEAKER_00]: It's that because she's not a musician, it comes across as kind of like magic. 26:22.152 --> 26:28.520 [SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't understand the first thing about what you would do to become that kind of artist. 26:29.160 --> 26:38.811 [SPEAKER_00]: And she also doesn't realize that living in the world today, it's easier than it ever has been to look up how to do something and to kind of learn it on your own. 26:39.412 --> 26:47.536 [SPEAKER_00]: Sure, some people are a little bit more naturally inclined to certain types of things, foreign languages very difficult for me, but learning music was actually very easy. 26:48.016 --> 26:52.138 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm not saying that some people just are not more inclined to certain types of things, right? 26:52.718 --> 26:53.298 [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely. 26:54.119 --> 27:02.923 [SPEAKER_00]: Different people have limitations for how well they'll develop in a certain skill, based on just some basics of the way that their minds and bodies work. 27:03.463 --> 27:05.184 [SPEAKER_00]: But effort makes up for a lot of that. 27:05.264 --> 27:17.734 [SPEAKER_00]: If I really wanted to learn foreign language, even though it comes difficult to me, I could study harder, and eventually I could get to the place where I was probably fluent, speaking some foreign language, it may take years, but I could still get there. 27:18.335 --> 27:29.564 [SPEAKER_00]: And my point for this kind of side story is that in a work like this, we have to look at the songs in poetry as if the ancient world would have looked at them. 27:30.104 --> 27:37.927 [SPEAKER_00]: If somebody had a skill or especially a talent that other people didn't, it was seen as being more special. 27:38.447 --> 27:47.170 [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe even magic adjacent, or adjacent to the gods, or something like that, depending on how far back we go in history. 27:47.890 --> 28:10.411 [SPEAKER_00]: In the ancient world, musicians and artists who would spend their time around the aristocracy, the emperor, or during religious ceremonies would be front and center, and it key components to the ceremony that was going on were given a higher status in society because not just anybody could learn to do those things. 28:10.931 --> 28:21.879 [SPEAKER_00]: So all that's to say that this isn't just Frodo reciting a poem, and it is a glimpse into his inner thought in his mind, but it's also a little bit more than that. 28:22.360 --> 28:34.669 [SPEAKER_00]: He's talking about his journey down the road, but he's also talking about the flow of time and history, and the way that that is encapsulated in ways that are mysterious to all of us, 28:35.209 --> 28:37.451 [SPEAKER_00]: but that road was always there. 28:37.932 --> 28:42.296 [SPEAKER_00]: We can't always see where it's going, but it's our job to journey down it. 28:42.797 --> 28:43.778 [SPEAKER_00]: It has a deeper meaning. 28:44.298 --> 28:50.244 [SPEAKER_00]: And then Pippin response, he says, that sounds a bit like old Bilbo's rhyming, or is it one of your imitations? 28:50.865 --> 28:52.887 [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't sound altogether encouraging. 28:53.467 --> 29:00.573 [SPEAKER_00]: This might be the first time that Pippins getting a real sense of what Frodo's going through, just even in a very small capacity. 29:01.094 --> 29:04.597 [SPEAKER_00]: And the Frodo says, I don't know, it came to me then, as if I was making it up. 29:05.097 --> 29:06.659 [SPEAKER_00]: But I may have heard it long ago. 29:06.799 --> 29:09.421 [SPEAKER_00]: Notice he doesn't know the origins of the words. 29:09.801 --> 29:12.644 [SPEAKER_00]: Did he just form it at his mind on the spot? 29:13.084 --> 29:17.208 [SPEAKER_00]: Or was this something Bilbo would say that he's carried with him and just couldn't remember? 29:17.849 --> 29:23.919 [SPEAKER_00]: or seems to be implying that there may be another source for this idea that just popped in his head. 29:24.592 --> 29:28.294 [SPEAKER_00]: Certainly, it reminds me very much of Bilbo in the last years, before he went away. 29:28.814 --> 29:36.257 [SPEAKER_00]: He used often to say that there was only one road and road here is capitalized within R. Thus, the symbolism. 29:36.777 --> 29:37.958 [SPEAKER_00]: That it was like a great river. 29:38.458 --> 29:42.139 [SPEAKER_00]: Its springs were at every doorstep and every path was his tributary. 29:42.699 --> 29:45.281 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your front door. 29:45.641 --> 29:46.761 [SPEAKER_00]: This one's used in the movie. 29:47.081 --> 29:52.023 [SPEAKER_00]: He used to say, you step into the road and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might 29:53.684 --> 30:03.366 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you realize that this is the very path that goes through Merckwood and that if you let it, it might take you to the Lonely Mountain, or even further, and to worse places? 30:03.946 --> 30:10.047 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we're told that he used to say this on the path outside the front door at back end, especially after he had been out for a long walk. 30:10.527 --> 30:11.548 [SPEAKER_00]: This moment is potent. 30:11.908 --> 30:22.250 [SPEAKER_00]: It is a symbolic moment of both Frodo understanding the burden and the dangers that he's taken on for himself, and is foreshadowing what is about to happen. 30:22.790 --> 30:33.986 [SPEAKER_00]: It's a very serious moment for Frodo, and I just got finished explaining how Pippin isn't in idiot, but he is the comedic relief because he responds with this. 30:34.937 --> 30:38.638 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, the road won't sweep me anywhere for an hour, at least, said Pippin. 30:39.139 --> 30:46.121 [SPEAKER_00]: Totally missing the point, focused on himself, not even curious about Frodo's well-being and what this actually means. 30:46.541 --> 30:48.762 [SPEAKER_00]: Just, my legs are tired, I'm going to sit down. 30:49.322 --> 30:51.703 [SPEAKER_00]: He unslings his pack, and then it says this. 30:52.403 --> 30:57.865 [SPEAKER_00]: The others followed his example, putting their packs against the bank, and their legs out into the road. 30:58.505 --> 31:02.627 [SPEAKER_00]: After arrest, they had a good lunch, and then, more rest. 31:16.990 --> 31:21.094 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks again for tuning in and thanks again to all of our patrons for supporting the show. 31:21.434 --> 31:32.124 [SPEAKER_00]: If I've helped you get through your workday or your workout or cleaning your house and you've been listening for hours and hours at this point, and you want to just toss me a little bit of a tip, that would be wonderful. 31:32.585 --> 31:36.166 [SPEAKER_00]: And the best part is when you sign up on Patreon, you don't just give me a tip. 31:36.266 --> 31:46.389 [SPEAKER_00]: You get something for it, like ad free episodes, or joining in our Patreon chats, which are now two months in, and I would love to have more of you come join us and share your thoughts about different things. 31:46.409 --> 31:47.950 [SPEAKER_00]: So we can nerd out together. 31:48.010 --> 31:51.431 [SPEAKER_00]: So go check it out patreon.com slash LOTR-Lorcast. 31:51.471 --> 31:55.852 [SPEAKER_00]: There's a link in each of the show descriptions in the main show description, all of that stuff. 31:56.212 --> 32:03.955 [SPEAKER_00]: And thank you to OLAV, our newest patron, welcome to the Patreon, and shout-outs, we'll be at the end of this episode to all of our VIP patrons. 32:04.235 --> 32:09.818 [SPEAKER_00]: But before that, I have to read out a new review that came in on Apple Podcasts, leave a 5 star review, I'll read it out. 32:10.298 --> 32:14.780 [SPEAKER_00]: This one is from USA Templar, who says, have not stopped five stars. 32:14.840 --> 32:18.061 [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being my companion during my 12-hour night shifts. 32:18.141 --> 32:20.202 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, you're very welcome, and that's a long shift. 32:20.602 --> 32:21.783 [SPEAKER_00]: I have not stopped listening. 32:22.023 --> 32:39.496 [SPEAKER_00]: thank you for going over and under and through the minutia three feet high seven feet distance sounds like Bobo's jump was balanced and complete I can tell what episode you're on now and what do you think 1917 or one Middle East ruin I don't know just a thought thank you I'm not sure what you're employing there but 32:40.696 --> 32:46.738 [SPEAKER_00]: the talk about different war and how that influenced Tolkien's perspective on things definitely comes up a lot. 32:47.358 --> 32:50.359 [SPEAKER_00]: But if you want to flesh that out a little bit more, I'll all answer your questions. 32:50.379 --> 32:51.820 [SPEAKER_00]: So come join us on the discord. 32:51.960 --> 32:57.522 [SPEAKER_00]: You can share questions on there and I might cover it in a bonus episode at some point, which by the way can get on Patreon. 32:57.782 --> 32:57.962 [SPEAKER_00]: There's 32:58.302 --> 33:03.684 [SPEAKER_00]: A ton of them are almost as many bonus episodes as there are actual regular episodes, lots of stuff on there. 33:04.024 --> 33:05.245 [SPEAKER_00]: But I'm going to stop talking about that. 33:05.285 --> 33:10.467 [SPEAKER_00]: Let's shout out all of our VIP patrons, I guess I'm going to continue talking about Patreon because VIP patrons. 33:10.787 --> 33:24.532 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, thank you to Fulcrum David S. Daniel Knight, we've a Copena, Richard J. TJT, aka Music Lover, Barney D. Asle, Razzle, Blade of Anderil, Laurie B. Norwegian Myr, Mason Weathertop, Gimli, a Break, Divine Madman, Rosie Rosé, the bestist boy. 33:24.592 --> 33:26.293 [SPEAKER_00]: Who on is my hero Eldarian is right? 33:26.693 --> 33:30.275 [SPEAKER_00]: a very old party Snacks, he always gets me. 33:30.335 --> 33:38.018 [SPEAKER_00]: Norwegianias, Bruce W. Artemis, Kira-C, DOSS, Silverstar, Silver Hobbit, 414, and my name is our August West. 33:38.138 --> 33:40.840 [SPEAKER_00]: I almost messed up that last one, but got through most of them pretty well that time. 33:41.440 --> 33:42.700 [SPEAKER_00]: Alright, thanks again for being here. 33:42.740 --> 33:44.141 [SPEAKER_00]: I hope you have a wonderful rest of your week. 33:44.461 --> 33:45.742 [SPEAKER_00]: And let's leave with this. 33:46.022 --> 33:48.243 [SPEAKER_00]: If you have a Sam in your life, take a care of them. 33:48.623 --> 33:49.323 [SPEAKER_00]: They care about you. 33:49.844 --> 33:50.584 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next time. 33:53.748 --> 33:55.849 [SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for listening to the Lord of the Rings lorecast. 33:56.469 --> 34:00.051 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to learn more about other fantasy worlds, check out my other podcasts. 34:00.492 --> 34:04.834 [SPEAKER_00]: The Elder Scrolls lorecast, the Witcher lorecast, and more, have robotsradio.net. 34:05.294 --> 34:07.135 [SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to reach out, I'd love to hear from you. 34:07.655 --> 34:14.299 [SPEAKER_00]: Send me a note on Twitter at robots underscore radio, or join our amazing community on the robots radio discord. 34:14.719 --> 34:20.462 [SPEAKER_00]: There are links in the show notes, or just search robotsradio discord, or find the link on robotsradio.net. 34:20.722 --> 34:21.443 [SPEAKER_00]: I'll see you next time.