[SPEAKER_00]: Join us August 14th through 16th for the 2026 mastering rod-building seminar at the Orange Beach Event Center at the Warf in Orange Beach, Alabama.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is your chance to learn from the best in the rod-building industry while enjoying a full weekend of hands-on education.
[SPEAKER_00]: great food and community fellowship.
[SPEAKER_00]: On Saturday, we'll have seminars all day, we'll feed you breakfast lunch, and have a crawfish and shrimp boil dinner on Saturday, plus breakfast and more seminars, including lunch on Sunday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Discounted lodging is available just a one minute walk from the venue, so grab your tickets now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you're bringing others, be sure to include all attendee names at checkout.
[SPEAKER_00]: For more information, email my guide Jack Baron
[SPEAKER_00]: Jay Barron at anglersresource.net, that's JBARO in at anglersresource.net or call 2519-43-4491.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you in Orange Beach.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey everybody, welcome back to the Mastering Rod Building podcast on your host Bill Faulkner and I have slightly shaky hands and a few butterflies in my stomach today because I have again the great pleasure of getting talk to talk to one of my personal heroes who I have never met in person or got an interact with before today.
[SPEAKER_00]: And an absolute legend in the Rod Designing World and Fly Casting World
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and, and, and, and distance and accuracy world championship level casting world and that is none other than Mr. Steve Ragef.
[SPEAKER_00]: Steve, welcome very much to the podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm delighted to have you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm, I'm a little, I'm getting like a little school girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a lot to kind of get me excited nervous and I'm really excited to talk to you today.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Bill, I'm pleasure to be here and I look forward to this conversation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Me too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And participating in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, me too, and I thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you have lots of demands on your time, but you are a generous mentor and advocate for casting and fly fishing, and so I appreciate you making the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is kind of Steve, to me, you're one of these guys that needs no introduction, but just in case people have been living under a rock for the last 40 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Steve is a 14-time world champion in all around casting this is distance and accuracy casting and we're going to talk quite a bit about that in the ACA and our U.S.
[SPEAKER_00]: Team USA casting team and members and all that today.
[SPEAKER_00]: he's got 45, he's won 45 plus national championships, he retired, formerly retired four years ago from G-Lumus, where for 35 years he was the principal rod designer, not just for fly rods, but he was a chief rod designer for everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is designed, I don't know, it's ridiculous, it's more than like 3,000 models.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's still on call, I know, from talking to my buddies,
[SPEAKER_00]: Phil and Jerry that if they need you, they can call you and you're you're always happy to help and and or tremendous resource in that capacity.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could literally spend an hour on Steve's introduction.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's so many things he's done that are meaningful.
[SPEAKER_00]: But he, you know, one that he's proud of that we were talking about that I didn't realize you were responsible for, but you and Mel Krieger,
[SPEAKER_00]: kickstarted the federation of fly fishing international, what what we used to call triple F for the federation of fly fishers.
[SPEAKER_00]: The casting instructor certification program, that was you and Mel, more than 30 years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys created that program and that thing lives on strong today.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I bet we've got people listening that are certified.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just just in case you think he's just a rod nerd like me, he actually can fish too.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not just a distance cast or he was a full-time guide for five seasons in Alaska.
[SPEAKER_00]: for two seasons in Montana.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's fished everywhere for everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fly and conventional, very decorated castor, rod designer, and guide, and angler.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, welcome, and hopefully that helps people understand part of why I'm so excited to talk to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: But enough about that, I know you're so generous and humble and don't dwell on your own accomplishments, but you have to let me brag on you a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm curious, and I ask all my guests this, how did you get into fishing in the first place, and how did you get into Rod Design and Rod Building?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be a great story.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, with that introduction, Bill, thank you very much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got started as a kid growing up in San Francisco on our summer vacations where we used to go up to the Sierra Mountains, and I had my little Zebco outfit, little black real, little white rod, and a carton of worms, and we'd go to the local creek,
[SPEAKER_01]: and catch some trout and so that was my very first introduction with my my father and my brother Tim and we go down to the creek and trout fish but where I grew up in San Francisco was right next to Golden Gate Park.
[SPEAKER_01]: Along with in Golden Gate Park is a club called the Golden Gate Angling and Casting Club literally it's less than 10 minutes on my bicycle to get out to that
[SPEAKER_01]: And at some point in time, I decided I wanted to try this thing called fly fishing up in the mountains where I was using my little push button rod and outfit.
[SPEAKER_01]: There were these fly fishermen catching more fish than I could with my my carton of worms so I knew I could go there and I could probably cast or learn how to cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: went to the local five and dime store in San Francisco that sold inexpensive equipment.
[SPEAKER_01]: I bought my first rod, which was a split cane bamboo with one of these automatic wind-up reels where you can put in those zip zip in the broodax.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't know anything, zero.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I threaded my little flyline through the hook keeper and out to the rest of the rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I went out to the park and I started flailing, just whipping that rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: and by sheer pity, a couple of other casters come running over, hey, kids, stop, stop.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm sorry, what did I do?
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, oh, you're all right.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're hurting your rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: He says, why?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you're hitting the tip on the concrete, every swing back.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to do it like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's the first lesson.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're so friendly out there and they just want to help anybody that shows up and especially youngsters.
[SPEAKER_01]: So a little bit by little, I started going back out to that park
[SPEAKER_01]: the casters there, you know, would always help.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I got introduced to a guy named Melkereger.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was just a brand new, a part of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We just spoke of him briefly.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, you know, I show up here almost every day after work.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just keep coming out here and I'll coach you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So after two weeks, he talked to my dad and he says, Steve's little split cane rod is not going to cut it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to go ahead and get a Fenwick FF 85, which is the standard of the day and eight and a half foot, six weight fly rod and a fluver medalist reel and a SNA thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry, and we got the right equipment.
[SPEAKER_01]: You started coaching me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is good for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is not better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you remember it's about 10 years old?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, just around 10.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so Mel coached me said you're going to be an attorney in two weeks and I says, no, I'm not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to go turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to go go fishing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he says, well, if you really want to catch fish, you have to, you know, place your fly over there by the target.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's imaginary spot where you
[SPEAKER_01]: So Mel coach me into hitting some targets and talking me into the tournament.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you know, 10 year old kid against all these adults, and I came in last place out of like 20 people and I said, well, that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't have to do this anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I watched my hands of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have to do this one more time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, two weeks later, the next tournament rolls around.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I actually won that little tournament all my instructor.
[SPEAKER_01]: I beat all these old guys, like 30 to 50 year old people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I hit a high good enough score to win.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that just got me hooked right there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I was hooked because I could do something as good as the adults.
[SPEAKER_01]: Fortunately, there's so many,
[SPEAKER_01]: different people in the club okay one guy's an expert five eight sounds baitcaster another guy's a spincaster one guy's national champion once upon a time long distance so all these coaches around me well you're going to try this and you're so I got all this help over the years at the club
[SPEAKER_01]: And each of those taught me about what should the rod do, what should the line do, what should the reels do?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I gathered a lot of knowledge and that sort of, I'll say, kickstart, but it drew my interest into the sport of casting and also increased my interest for fishing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just for everybody to understand, like what?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's talking about getting into this at 10 years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: You won your first World Championship at 16.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so that's that's that's pretty obviously it immense you know, prodigious talent But with a power of mentorship right like what if there's what if the club hadn't been there?
[SPEAKER_00]: What if those guys hadn't come over to help you when you were hitting the rod back and forth on the concrete and had to line thread it through the hook keeper right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I this is such a power point.
[SPEAKER_00]: It reminded all of us like help somebody invite a friend to go with you If you see somebody struggling go help them be nice You never know who you might be helping a future world champion mel certainly was with you, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's an awesome story like the willingness and that's kind of our sport of casting and in the world of flight casting and fishing and most of us in general we're happy to share here here here, you know, learn about these different things.
[SPEAKER_01]: makes it more interesting, you can catch more fish, have less difficulties when you're out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's interesting Steve.
[SPEAKER_00]: I tend to talk to people in one of two camps, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: One, they started on fly at fishing, and that's just what they do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes they've never conventional fish at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a more common path is people start.
[SPEAKER_00]: conventional and sort of work the way through conventional and as they're expanding into different kinds of fishing different areas, different fish to pursue, they'll get into fly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's sort of how I got into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you sort of went straight from the zeb code to fly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you skipped a bunch of steps.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's impressive.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a little bit of cart fishing involved in there in the Golden Gate Park there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's what I thought you were going to say.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you said it was the park, I was like, oh, are there carp in the lake?
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, there were and lots of little guys that you'd catch on that same Zepko rod that we got trapped with.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also our grandparents would take us up to a river in north of San Francisco called Russian River.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: On the summer times, they would, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: board up the river and have spillways and it backed up the river to make kind of like smoke slow moving bodies of water and the car perform a full out with some go balls and catch carp so that's the other species that was real fun to catch as a kid and it still is to this day because oh yeah right now in Washington state along the Columbia river they have these little shallows or flats really and there's actually fellas with the bonfish gifts nearby that are
[SPEAKER_01]: on to carp in the flats out here and I've done that a few times and it's a blast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do some of the great lakes I worked in Chicago for a long time in my real job before I got it was fortunate to get into the the rod component full time rod building world and there's guides up specializing that in the summer time in the great lakes and it's it is literally
[SPEAKER_00]: I put it somewhere between like bone fish and permit fishing like these carp or no dummies.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've incredible senses, incredible lateral lines, incredible eyes and sense of smell and apparently chemo reception and ability to communicate with one another.
[SPEAKER_00]: You only get like one shot at a school if you spook them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They all like, you know, dump the scared chemical or whatever it is and like you're done.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's with their hard to catch especially the big ones that have been targeted before.
[SPEAKER_00]: We, the best thing in Texas when I was growing up for cart was we'd get a big red soda and a box of generic corn flakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it'd be better if they were sweet.
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't have to be coated.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could be uncoded and you just crush them all up with that red with a big red and make a dough ball with that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was nasty.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I can't believe we were eating and drinking that stuff at the time, but get it around the travel looked.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was pretty good cart bait back in the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it even floated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's small, it's funny how many of us start trying to access the opportunities that we have close to us, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So, how we get this straight, I think this is right, but keep me honest.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I really want to talk about the distance casting stuff, and our team USA specifically, because it's very exciting time, and we've got a great team both in the master's division.
[SPEAKER_00]: and in the standard divisions and send in a really good team to the World Championships and there's some great opportunities for the community to help and support those folks.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I can't help anytime I've got a rod designer with your expertise and experience and track record.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I have to talk about that a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you start with Mel at 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: You win your first World Championship at 16.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at some point, keep me honest here, but my understanding for my research is somewhere shortly after this, you go to work for this small company called Winslow Manufacturing.
[SPEAKER_00]: as a young man, which, no, no, we may know who that is, but that company is now known today as Sage, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is, you were one of the ones who helped name that company back in the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, tell me that story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did that come out of trying to develop better competition rods?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or how did you,
[SPEAKER_00]: Were those unrelated that it just so happens that you did the world championship and then you sort of got in early days with Sage or like how did how did that all come to pass?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I got involved with Sage.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I had finished my college education in San Francisco with a business degree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had my interests in fishing and I said, well, I'd like to explore what the options were.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought possibly a sales rep position is an option.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe helping with something to do with promotion and marketing, which was my degree at the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, basically, I decided to make some calls around.
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, I did contact Don Green at Winslow Manufacturing.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had just started it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was the name of the company called Winslow.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he had been at Fenwick before that.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was the factory manager owner of the blanks in Bainbridge Island, Washington.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, okay, Don Green lived around the Seattle area.
[SPEAKER_01]: First, it was in Kent, Washington.
[SPEAKER_01]: He moved the factory to Bainbridge Island and actually started up the blank factory for Fenwick.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at that time, Jim Green, unrelated to Dawn Green, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Jim Green, who had been a tournament caster in his younger years.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Jim Green was the rod designer.
[SPEAKER_01]: ultimately with Fenwick for 20 30 years also.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would meet Jim up at the factory on Vainbridge, Ireland to design tournament blanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, come on up, let's make some new rods.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Along the way there, about the second or third year I went up there and said, Steve, we got this brand of materials.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gotta keep it secret.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, what is it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we got one material and one rod that's a boron material.
[SPEAKER_01]: And another one over here that's called graphite rods.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, wow, and he hands me one, and it's like a feather.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like lifts out of my hands.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just light.
[SPEAKER_01]: We go out to the pond out back and start casting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, wow, what a difference.
[SPEAKER_01]: This game change.
[SPEAKER_01]: Incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think is better?
[SPEAKER_01]: Bore on our graphite.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, this, I'm about 15, 14, 15.
[SPEAKER_01]: was 1972.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, man, both of them are lighter and easier to cast in the fighter glass, but as you're explaining this to me, boron, I don't know, was like,
[SPEAKER_01]: $2,500 a pound of sampling material and the graphite was like $2,000 a pound.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the way more expensive than it is even today.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was like prototype early materials.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, both of them are great.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like the graphite.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a shade lighter than the boron rods.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if it's a little less expensive, ultimately, I think that's what people will want.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's my two cents.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so anyhow, they proceeded down both lanes.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the very following year was 1973, Fenwick was the first company to launch graphite onto the market.
[SPEAKER_01]: at the iCast show, which was also called before iCast was named was called the afma show, the American Fish and Fish and Fish Manufacturers Association show.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where at launch 1973, I actually was testing and had rods in my hand from graphite and boron in 1972, she made me a couple of prototype blanks for tournament casting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had the very first graphite rods outside the factory, he just snuck him in my
[SPEAKER_01]: my hands in my tube when I laughed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I had some blanks to play with.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my God, I made.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was showing them that that's what I'm in San Francisco.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I actually went to one of these national conclaze for fly fishing held in Sun Valley, Idaho.
[SPEAKER_01]: I showed Jack Hemingway, junior, and he was the fishing commissioner for Idaho at that time, along with
[SPEAKER_01]: very renowned anglers and fly people and they were just blown away by this rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, here I am this little young squirt showing off all these high tech materials.
[SPEAKER_01]: How in the world did you do this?
[SPEAKER_01]: I got this from Jim Green Fanwick as we do tournament casting.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there was always a connection with rod design and tournament giving us a little advantage and the design factor, the materials,
[SPEAKER_01]: the just the excitement of developing something new.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so Jim Green was my very first teacher in Rod design.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's how I got started there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you could hardly pick a better one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Him or Don, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and it is utterly confusing that they're not related.
[SPEAKER_00]: But given the proximity and the timing and their roles, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's so funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, Andy Deere told me that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know that till he told me that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just assume they were related right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't realize you were so young when you were getting involved in this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: My, um, I have an uncle.
[SPEAKER_00]: My dad's older brother, who's, who's since deceased, but his favorite rod in the world was the Finnway moron ex pistol grip casting rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he left me a couple when he passed and I have fished him and, you know, by, they're sort of clunky and primitive and early, you know, by today's standards, but that's still an awfully good fishing route, you don't know, I mean, I don't, I don't mind those things at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't realize you were so young, I'd never really done the math before I guess this makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then how long were you at Sage and then how did you get?
[SPEAKER_00]: Ted you meet Gary Lumis and how do you make the lead to Lumis?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so when I finished with college and went to work with Sage and when it was called Winslow, it was a year I think it was 1982 and I moved up to Washington from San Francisco and I went into the factory and I was doing a little bit of factory hands-on work in the factory, the broad designs were being
[SPEAKER_01]: created both in fiberglass and in graphite, Don Green always said, hey, please try these.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go outside and try them, which we did.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we settled on some actions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it was determined that I'd be one of the sales reps for the company.
[SPEAKER_01]: OK, and I would be covering the Rocky Mountains.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I worked underneath the main head rep guy named Less Icon from Navado, California, near San Francisco.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I was working under
[SPEAKER_01]: less and he was previously the national sales manager for Fenwick.
[SPEAKER_01]: and John Green and Jimmy's, we're done set off to do the sage glass broke off to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And anyway, I was all set to go to the Rockies and unfortunately, less had a severe heart attack, he survived, but he said, Steve, you're going to have to do it all.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I started in Washington.
[SPEAKER_01]: I covered over six weeks.
[SPEAKER_01]: I visited 110 shops of all types,
[SPEAKER_01]: from Seattle to San Diego all the way over to New Mexico and then zigzag through the rocky mountains up to Great Falls, Montana, and ultimately back to Seattle.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I made this giant loop and zigzag around.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got my real uh first uh
[SPEAKER_01]: tour of duty with covering the whole western part of the country and that broke up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I believe like close to a hundred shops that year and was the startup for for the rod company of of sage.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the name sage was it was created.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's gonna ask that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because Winslow is a name of a city and apparently you can't trademark a name of a city as your brand of a product.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't take wins low and put it on there and sell it because the city owns the rights to that name.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So through the ad agency that was being used.
[SPEAKER_01]: They came up with the concept where we're a western company and so the different names came up and along less and sage was on the list and says I kind of like that one it's the western sage brush and the sage the wise old person or man whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was one of the candidates and as it turned out it was selected so
[SPEAKER_01]: I put my hat in that ring and it still held through to this day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: When did so flip pallet was he a sales rep for you guys at Sage or was he just sort of a pro staff guy early on?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was later, I guess, but later and that was with G-Lumus.
[SPEAKER_01]: After I was with Sage for about six years, I made the decision to move along.
[SPEAKER_01]: It seemed like after a number of years that route was sort of like a dead end.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, the decisions at the home front at Sage said, no, that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're not offering you anything more than that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So at that point, I felt like, well, I'm going to move on and see what else exists out here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I touch bases with Gary Lomus, who have been very friendly towards us casters and help to make tournament blanks under his design as a worker at a red designer for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lamb of glass.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, but I knew that he had started up his own company and so I touched bases with Gary and that would have been late 1986 or 87 and that's when I switched companies.
[SPEAKER_01]: I decided to work with Gary and very quickly in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: looked at some of the new products that he was making.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was called the IM6 series and it was just about then the next year came out.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am X series.
[SPEAKER_01]: These two brand names under the Loomus company IM6 and then IMX just kind of set some new benchmarks in the industry for some performance and fishing and casting, spinning, bait casting, you know light salt water, it's in great popping rods.
[SPEAKER_01]: and also a big series of fly rods and right away as soon as the fly actions were expanding I got the the call just to stay around and do mainly rod design and that's kind of where I got my feet wedded at at G. Loomus and the rest as they say is history.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wow, this is a heady days man.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are like right there in the center of the American, you know, carbon fiber and graphite, you know, Renaissance and scene, you know, I mean, that's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gary was so enthusiastic and he was always saying, you know, we got to have the best graphite.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to have the best resin.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to make the best machines to make all these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we got to have the best mandrels.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got to have so he was always about pushing the envelope in all these facets that creates the blank.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, then he was buddies with so many of the top anglers around the country and outdoor writers.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was like a magnet anybody would be around him.
[SPEAKER_01]: He'd he'd draw in the the the people who just love to join in and be part of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, he was good friends with all the people in the floor to keys.
[SPEAKER_01]: He'd go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, Alaska.
[SPEAKER_01]: He'd go.
[SPEAKER_01]: visit some people in the south for bass fishing.
[SPEAKER_01]: He'd go up to the Rockies and whatever, but I got a chance to do all these different designs and it wasn't always my, you know, I want to do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like, okay, the sales force says we need a series of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The sales force wants to have a series of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then what are the criteria?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you need a faster taper or slower taper.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's a
[SPEAKER_01]: pick out a rod that's existing and show me what you have, then I always was able to develop okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And besides the raw material, you have mandrels which we roll the graphite up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are those steel tapered shafts that help.
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually that's the mold.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the starting point because you could put fiberglass on it or regular graphite or intermediate or high modulus or blends
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and so my job to is to design the mandrel shapes work with those companies keep the tolerances within the specs that we need to make manufacturing work well.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to coordinate with manufacturing, what are your requirements for this and that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when you design, you also have to know the variables, the raw material, the tooling, and the factory capabilities.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then there's always an evolution and a learning curve for all of us to work together.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I was starting to say that Gary was always in Thuzya, go find out, what's the newest thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: What's the newest thing?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that was kind of my,
[SPEAKER_01]: My instruction as a young engineer designing these things is to go out there and learn and we visited so many different factories over the years, the raw material companies, and it's not only fiber, it's resin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was just going to say the screen was in the resins and some of the innovations you guys came up with while you were there that have changed the industry.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it was such an innovative one of the super innovative periods of a super innovative company in the history of this, right, and you're right there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely, the residents were, you know, an epoxy system that was kept in a freezer until you're ready to use it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You let it warm up to room temperature then it becomes pliable.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you left it out for a couple of days, it would be crystallized or catalyzed and it'd be hard and crunchy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You couldn't use it anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, it would be pliable in the timeframe that we needed to roll it up on the mandrel and process the blanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: became apparent.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can improve those resins with additives.
[SPEAKER_01]: One time it was rubber micro bubbles or micro blooms.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like rubberized materials.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then it was like a thermal plastic and later on it was the nano silica additives to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so.
[SPEAKER_01]: to my knowledge, and I believe I got to say, I think I'm right, is that we were the first company to add those kind of things into a product that went out to market.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 100% I think that's, that is my understanding as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and they were several of those, right, that have now become commonplace approaches, and you sort of lose that over time, but so much innovation from one,
[SPEAKER_00]: one powerhouse of a company, but that was Gary, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like lighter fast and stronger.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give me 10% more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give me death, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember the first time I made him.
[SPEAKER_01]: You brought up the name of flip pallet a minute ago and flip was a good friend because I had been an instructor at the Florida Keys fly fishing school out of Islamarada through the Florida Keys outfit are started up by Sandy Marat, okay, and he brought a who's who list of instructors to go for nandes and
[SPEAKER_01]: Rob Ford ice and and it's like you're reading the whole thing and it's like we're all about the whole thing and I was asked to join in and largely on account of my casting and stretching and I'm doing that for many many years and I fish a lot as well, but so I was just a pleasure to be there and at one point I said flip would you have any interest of, you know, helping G. Loomis develop some series of rods in the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'd like to do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's where Flip Palette kind of was willing to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we brought Flip to the company in Washington.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a number of products were discussed.
[SPEAKER_01]: But one of the ones that really set hold was something called the Cross Current Series.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the Cross Current Series.
[SPEAKER_01]: That was a brand that lasted for, I don't know, 12 or 15 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so Flip had a strong hand in that development.
[SPEAKER_01]: And together, we had these marvelous salt water rods with Flip.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still get in boats in guides out West trout fishing that their seven weight is across current.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they'll say, I've never found a better rod for swinging sinking tips and streamers in the river fishing they're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those rods, like many had a cult following, that's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll tell you one small flip-pout story and I did not know the man well, but when I was about 12 years old, a friend of my dad who was a mentor to me and taught me how to tie flies and took me five fish and for bass all the time in Texas, took me to a Federation of Five Fishers Conclave in Fort Worth, Texas.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was 1984 and I'd never been one of these things and you talk about a kid in a candy store, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And sage was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Flip was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, to me, of course, he's this Walker's K Chronicle guy and famous and I was just so surprised when he was, hey, young man, how are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Started talking to me and everything and lo and behold, he ended up selling me for a hundred and fifty dollars, which at the time seemed like an obscene amount of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like hilarious, minor flash, sage flower, I've for a hundred and fifty dollars.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it was the first like real good flyrod I had and it was one of his personal used like RPL2 You know eight foot nine inch seven weight bass bug rods and I still have that rod It's down in my shop right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've I've quit using it and I keep it as a as a keep safe But yeah, what a nice guy right and and man you guys designed some good products
[SPEAKER_00]: You designed I can't remember the numbers like more than 3,000 or 3,100 rod series over the year models and all this and like you said you are instrumental in every part from the the mandrels to the material selection equipment all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But sometimes a lot of times I talked to Blake designers and you love all your children maybe if you were honest you had a few favorites were there were there any really favorite products or favorite blanks you ever made or series you ever worked on.
[SPEAKER_00]: That stand out to them after across 35 years of innovation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think early on when the GLX program got going, that was a real milestone for us and one of my favorites, it was one where it was Steve, don't worry about the price, just go ahead and make the ultimate thing, whatever it takes, that's a good Gary Luminous, Steve, there you go, that's how you docks, you know, you sell like him, growl and his voice there, but
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was a material that was fresh, a new material, the new resin system that went with it, a carbon fiber, scrim material that went with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I ordered new mandrels, because when you have a new building material, you need a new mandrel to take advantage of those things.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Otherwise, you either have a heavier blank than needed or it's a different action.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, combine the right mandrel tapers with the right material.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we shaved some additional weight from the blanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: We used lightweight single leg of the night.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the first time anyone ever put single foot snake guides.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was you putting them on that GLX series?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the first time it ever been done to my knowledge, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was a byproduct of my brother Tim and I collaborating.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Tim, what do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to bend this leg around and we'll just mold it into one leg.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's only one thread wrap.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's try that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we went out and it worked fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, my brother had been working with us a little bit because he was hired to be the camp manager of the Pinoy River Company in the Colah Peninsula of Russia.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right when the, the iron curtain had fallen, fishing was going to start opening up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had a little hand in getting Gary introduced to some people over there following one of my world tournaments.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in Bulgaria, a little diversion here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got a phrase.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was in Bulgaria and it was contacted by a guy in Texas and he said, I'm going to Russia.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was wondering if you can meet me there and I'm thinking, meet you guy in Russia and I'm in there from at this man.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's going on?
[SPEAKER_01]: He said, well, I have a meeting with the fisheries directors in
[SPEAKER_01]: Lenin grad, which is now St. Petersburg again, and they want to let us explore for Atlantic salmon fishing in Russia.
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, wow, that's cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I said, well, I could be their late September and I said, well, great, that's what I'm going.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I went from Bulgaria to St. Petersburg, Russia, and I met with the this guy, Bill Davies from Texas, and then
[SPEAKER_01]: and the fisheries people and they said great.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'd like to show you anything you want to look for.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're looking for Atlantic salmon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, yes, yes, we have Atlantic salmon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, they gave us a driver of a van and a biologist and they said, go have a week on us, go go any place you want to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they zippity do take us out of town in this van with the blinking right on the roof.
[SPEAKER_01]: Traffic separates.
[SPEAKER_01]: zoom out on the highway.
[SPEAKER_00]: You get the center lane.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No fool.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had a driver and that was like any traffic jam just hit the light.
[SPEAKER_01]: The blinker goes on.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went rushing on through.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_01]: We went out to a place called Lake Latica, which is a huge, huge, huge lake.
[SPEAKER_01]: The largest on the west western side of Russia that I'm aware of not as big as lake by call.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Latica is a huge, huge lake.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's
[SPEAKER_01]: ones that went out to the ocean and after we understood all of that we came back to the to the to the to the directors and say we're really looking for a place where the salmon run out to the ocean.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, we should fly you by helicopter.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll take you up to the cola peninsula.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm thinking well, this is a little bit too far for me right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm not going to be that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the biologist guy I became a friend.
[SPEAKER_01]: I put him in touch with Gary and Bill Davies got in touch
[SPEAKER_01]: And the very, very first group of anglers that went over to the coal peninsula with Berger brothers and and stewed and Bob Stearns and who's who listed when on that list and they explored about four or five rivers and came home with glowing reports of, you know, big salmon, lots of them.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was the really breakthrough in the very following year.
[SPEAKER_01]: was the first year that an American company or any other company had a salmon fishing lodge inside of Russia.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my brother, well, Gary says, Steve, why don't you be the manager of the camp?
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't speak Russian well enough.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can speak a little, my grandparents spoke Russian to us, but my brother picked it up much better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tim was a fishing guide from Alaska, advanced CPR, and world-class casting itself.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tim took over that lodge, and so Tim was there and Russia and ran the lodge for like seven years in the Panoi River Company for the company of...
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the Panoi company.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hang out, but Tim and the offseason would work at the factory and I go back to that guide story and the thing and the single-footed guide.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I just thought I would be a fun little thing to mention.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, so his brother is Tim Ragef and Tim, if you've ever heard Echo Flyrods or anything that they do, that's like Ragef sports.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think he's in like Canada now, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But,
[SPEAKER_00]: another world class caster world class casting instructor if you've ever seen and these things are one of those things that you sort of laugh at and don't take seriously to you pick it up and try it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think Tim was the one that sort of invented the little stubby flyrod with the yarn for you to practice your casting stroke inside.
[SPEAKER_00]: That helped me fix my tailing loops are.
[SPEAKER_01]: Keep perfected it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We and Joan Wolf came out with it and
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so this is fascinating.
[SPEAKER_00]: We could talk about this stuff all day, but I do feel the need to talk some about part of what I'm so excited about and so I'll tell a very short story here And then I want to hand the mic to you and have you educate us because there's literally nobody better in the entire United States to talk about the team USA and These world casting distance and accuracy championships, right, and so
[SPEAKER_00]: My parents, who I love dearly Jim and Gerald and they live in Thomasville, Georgia, and they are, they're these old school people of the world, you know, and they're early 80s, they still hand right letters and thank you notes, and they will still clip something out of the newspaper.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're the only people I know that take a newspaper that's actually print, I give them a hard time for being carbon readers, which is what my kids call it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But they send me, they clip this article about Maxine, and she had just won,
[SPEAKER_00]: a championship was going or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the middle of this article, it briefly mentions this custom design rod she's using that uses Fuji titanium guides.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they're like, oh my gosh, Fuji titanium, they sent it to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was like, oh, wow, I didn't realize these these world class distancing accuracy casters were using this stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so kind of my my
[SPEAKER_00]: to use the clever wise person kind of connotation of sage, not the sagebrush connotation is a guy named Andy Deere and we've been building rods together.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's 31 years, this month, actually, for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he was a really good flycaster, really good flying.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were a great flytire.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we just sort of, there weren't that many young guys building rods back then in our early 20s.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we kind of gravitated together with other people who are our age and we'd walk into the rod building event and everybody'd be like, are you lost young man?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, this is the rod building thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, oh, yeah, come on.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know everybody else was like retired military or law enforcement or something or retired insurance salesman you know and their pocket t-shirts with the reading glasses on and here were these young guys like we want to build routes um but so I reach out to Andy and Andy has done a bunch of work with Paul Arden and sexy loops and writes for them and Andy is a fine builder himself he builds a
[SPEAKER_00]: Kind of the stealth fighter F1 race car style of rod like everything it needs nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't no cosmetic elaborations just really clean really pretty high level X like a Tom Morgan kind of build like flawless But not show eat right and He sort of got me on that path and then I got introduced to Kaelan hogger and then Kaelan hogger got me introduced to
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Olsen, Tom Olsen, sorry, and some others, and my interest as Fuji was to support you guys, support team USA, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of people don't know, Fuji started as a metal stamping company.
[SPEAKER_00]: They started between World War One and World War Two making, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: making print press parts and then their claim to fame was they were the first people to figure out how to stamp and roll a metal watch band bracelet right so like the common we see metal we see fancy watches with metal bands they were the first one to do that and figure out the the forming and stamping to make this metal bracelet that was flexible and adjustable and all this right but
[SPEAKER_00]: The gentleman who found it was the grandfather of Kazuhito Murah who runs it now was a world champion not fly but conventional caster and was passionate about figuring out distance and he was convinced that ceramics were the way to go and we had to find a way to harness ceramics for rings on guides.
[SPEAKER_00]: and he was early, early, 60 years ago, believe or what we might call the new guide concept now, or sort of rapid reduction of the line to use fewer and smaller lighter running guides and single foot guides.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of these same principles, I mean, it's physics, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you reduce the weight, you increase the tip speed, you know, all these things, less weight on the diving board is Gary Loomus would say, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And through all that, we got introduced to you, and I got introduced to Team USA and now delighted to be providing components for you guys for your build.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's open this whole new world to me, and I've been flyfishing since I was seven years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have told you, I sort of know this space.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me about this incredible world of casting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we have 12 anglers.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a senior, a master's team.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, which you're a member of.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, so I think there's four of you, four masters.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's four ladies and four men who will go represent Team USA.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it in France at the next World Championships?
[SPEAKER_00]: Sir.
[SPEAKER_01]: The upcoming World Flight Casting Championships are to be held in Italy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Italy.
[SPEAKER_01]: OK. OK. OK.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are probably going to be 20 different countries there and we have divisions of women's men's and veterans classes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be my first time out in the veterans class with okay I should have done a couple of years back, but I'm happy to do it this time for the first time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to turn 70 this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, the same, the same 14 year old that like 10 year old that like beating the adults like beating the whippersnappers is a 70 year old, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the same thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: For the coin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: For the fire, baby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's go.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we can have up to depending on the events, but it's like up to six from a country again and vent.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we can alternate if somebody is not proficient in something, they don't have to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And somebody else can jump in a different casker.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have a strong team and I just came home two days ago from the last team practice session at the Long Beach Casting Club in Southern Cal and basically we've trained for several days together, perfecting casting and I can say our team is the strongest team I've ever seen in my career since going back to 1973 in my first World Tournament,
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm looking forward to our team being very successful at this tournament and this tournament is strictly all about fly casting and I just want to mention that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's one category.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also have a category that I did all my 14 world championships before that.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the all around including spinning, beat casting and fly casting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I think that's just one of everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Different division now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that still goes on.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I kind of retired from that about 10, 12 years ago when the flight of vision opened up and I said, well, that's kind of core to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I want to do that and was brand new.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm on the on the flight team
[SPEAKER_01]: We're looking forward to going to Vienato, which is up in the Alps close to the Swiss and French border, right, a little, a little village, a little pond in the town that people go swimming in.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're gonna have these platforms across the pond and lanes for the different events and casting, which includes an accuracy gain where we hit targets that are concentric rings, like 24 and then a 36 and a 48 inch targets and you get scored five, three, one or zero.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you hit the bullseye.
[SPEAKER_01]: and you get four rounds times four is 16 cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can hit 80 points.
[SPEAKER_01]: Other events are all distance oriented and you have a time limit and you can make it as many castes you want to within a time limit.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is a five-way event.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another one is a sort of a salmon steel head long distance, one handed and the rest are two handed, spake casting or else even one that's
[SPEAKER_01]: 125 feet and up in the in the five weight game we're casting 150 to 180 feet in the C trout game in salmon fly were 175 to 200 feet in spay casting we have to do left and right hand side cast maybe 140 to 175 80 feet this one fellow from from Norway
[SPEAKER_01]: gear Anderson six foot four expert fly fish and guide.
[SPEAKER_01]: I watched him at the last world tournament that I was at cast 275 feet space casting.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're pushing the length of a football field, lifting a hundred feet, change of direction, reach back and throw a perfect wedge loop.
[SPEAKER_01]: and it unfolds with a tailwind to 275 feet.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just a beautiful time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so impressive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so anyway, our team is very, very strong and a big shout out to Eng.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's resource for supporting us with all the componentry that you've helped our team with.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of us are using in virtually everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's using the,
[SPEAKER_01]: The single-legged titanium toursite guides as they are so glad to brought it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, it's it's the lightest light way super you know slippery low friction coefficient and so we're we're learning that even adding a couple of extra guides more than a standard guide configuration on a fly rod and going with the low profile of the blank and the lightweight.
[SPEAKER_01]: gains a little extra line speed and the line shoots through the guides as beautifully and we're all using it now and with great results.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, we're we're thinking you for.
[SPEAKER_01]: helping our team out with setting this up with so many guides and everybody's, you know, just gone with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, look, when I found out that everybody was using a titanium or needed titanium to resides, that was the gold standard and also using Fuji real seats, I was happy to help, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was actually a little surprised and disappointed to find.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's interesting, in some of these countries, these professional cast, I say professional casters.
[SPEAKER_00]: These tournament casters are as well known as Olympians, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: They really are just another form of world class athlete.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if they bring home world championships, there are places where people are very famous as casters, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they couldn't walk down the street.
[SPEAKER_00]: And our castors in the states have to pay all their own expenses, have to build all their own equipment, don't even have sponsorship, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was a gas when I found that out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was delighted when I found out that everyone, not just you guys, but most of the top teams in the world are using titanium tours like in single foot guides.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, in part of why that interests me, obviously, let's be clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm the Fuji guy, so it's good for me to represent Fuji and sell things, but, you know, that aside, I've had so many conversations with so many people.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you take the leap that you made back when you pioneered it with the GLX series for G-Lumus and you and Tim brainstorm and decided to use single-foot snake guides, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, to be clear, if you really look at a single-foot snake, it's just,
[SPEAKER_00]: two legs of the snake if it normally it's a foot and then a twist in a foot for a double at leg at snake these are just turn around and bent so it's not really any that much less wire and it's not that much lighter than a regular snake just in its raw form but when you consider that you cut the amount of thread you cut the amount of finish in half and then you take that about how many guides you're going to have across the whole length of the rod plus what you guys do you're so innovative this is fascinating I want to talk about this too
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys are infinite tinkers, like you're constantly moving guides and just tinkering with spacing and it's a lot quicker and easier to do to move and rebuild with single foot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a double foot, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I sort of took a leap further and said, hey, well, if I can use these single foot guides, I start way in those.
[SPEAKER_00]: I start way in the single foot ceramics, it's like these are not heavier than single foot fly guides.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've built lots of fly rods over the years with ceramic ring guides.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it doesn't surprise me that you guys are doing this, what I like so much about you guys doing it is that you're so like there's members of the team like I Henry middle this guy he's literally a physics professor I'm not exaggerating that's not like a clever moniker and he's kind of like a mad scientist of physics and tinkering the guy like that he's y'all are measuring where we're on the podium versus not even being mentioned can be measured in inches.
[SPEAKER_00]: at 160 feet, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're going to use whatever advantage you can come up with.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if there was a better guide or a better setup or a better system for these rods, you guys would be using it without brand bias, without historical bias, without what, and I understand these are not quote-fingers fishing rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they are built differently because they're for a different purpose.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the lines are a little bit different.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to talk about the rods a little because I think people would be shocked.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been building rods for 31 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been putting ceramic ring guides on my personal firearms for about 20 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: I fell out of my chair when you sent me Henry spacing and sizing for the guides you guys needed.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys are using size five single foot guides on these huge rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're casting like you just said a football field linked with.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was small even to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like you understand this better than most people because you're an expert caster, you're an expert rod designer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like talking me through the evolution of these rods and the physics and the forces and sort of what you've learned and why you guys use these components and build the rods this way.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to achieve the lightest rod for a couple of reasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is,
[SPEAKER_01]: to be able to bring the rod through the delivery cast and gain the fastest line speed.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that would apply to spinning or plug casting just as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in plug casting, we're trying to drive through a long cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're also looking for something that's very slippery because we're shooting line in the back cast and what we call the double hall is a pulling of the line as the rod is bending to accelerate the line.
[SPEAKER_01]: through the cast even faster than just a standard hold the line in cat but when you're hauling we want this slippery surface so there's less resistance on the guides.
[SPEAKER_01]: We also I'll mention lubricate the line with either a silicone or a ceramic coating even we wiped down the lines so that it's just like super slick and it just really shoots through the guides.
[SPEAKER_01]: The titanium is the lightest material.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we like the light weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: We use smaller diameter to the point where the line still fires on through.
[SPEAKER_01]: In some cases, we may have a bit of monofilament with one thickness as a holding line and then.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a limit how thin the shooting monofilament can be after the shooting head so we have a knot that has to fire on through these guides so it can't be too small where the knot might get jammed in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in actuality the five weight event is a full weight forward weight forward line that's 120 feet long so we're shooting the 120 foot and then the end of the 120 foot goes out through the guides and we put a needle nail not splice at the back with some monofilament so it fires through the guides just fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there is a balance in there that you can't go too little, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Those knot can kind of like pop, pop, pop, pop.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they can go through it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The high speed that we're releasing these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: But on the event of salmon fly, we're using size fives.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the shooting mono is going out through their beautifully.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's amazing to me that we can use such a little guide.
[SPEAKER_01]: But the line is not hindered at all from the size.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the diameter of the monofilament.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we can change the monofilament size if we want to up to a point where there's a limit.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's so small that nobody goes that small.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're into the zone that provides some resistance and a cast to help it to straighten.
[SPEAKER_01]: If the monos too skinny, then the line kind of just jumbles up out there.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need a little tail on the kite and the line lays out straight and that goes,
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a better cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and you guys obviously have it dialed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the distances you're casting are remarkable, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just a lesson for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: You mentioned a point just a second ago about even maybe adding one or two more guides talking to me about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have my own sort of theory, but like,
[SPEAKER_00]: As I mentioned, my understanding is that you guys will often as you're setting up rods and playing with rods and lines and shooting lines and you're set up, just take the guides on and test them, move and test them, do in this very commonly right until you get it right.
[SPEAKER_00]: As measured by the results, it's not, oh, this feels right or I think this is right or this looks right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys measure everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: which you have to if you're trying to compete in the lead world class level.
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me about the addition of more guides because at first some people would say, well wait a second, you're adding more weight that's less aerodynamic like that's going to hurt you, but it's everything to a point, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You can do you have too much or too little of anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: I personally think a lot of factory fly rods are made with one or two guides too little, but talk me through how you guys are looking at that that led you to add a guide or two.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the rod is a lever and it's a spring.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you have this lever with very few guides on it, and then it bends, this lever becomes very shortened, and it doesn't store as much energy.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you have a lot of little guides, many of them, then the lever functions as it's a longer lever, and it stores more of the energy against the line, loading against the rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it actually,
[SPEAKER_01]: makes like the the rod tip is loading and carrying more more load to the rod than if you have very few guides so the actually the more that you can handle to the point where the rod is noticeably sluggish or.
[SPEAKER_01]: reverberate, so after you stop in the rod, you know, jiggles a little bit, you know, if you're rod recovers, it feels crisp and nice through the delivery of few more guides, makes your lever a more effective lever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes the rod behave as though it's a little bit longer.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's the benefit of more guides at loads.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can prove it to yourself in one of the very
[SPEAKER_01]: Back up 20 feet, you have one rod, identical or two rods, identical blanks, put six guides on this rod, put 12 guides on this one, lower it down, raise the rods smoothly, rod with more guides, draws that milk jug, much, much closer to you than the one with few guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that just shows me that that's like a longer length lever than the rod with less guides.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're getting a more leverage and it translates to more power.
[SPEAKER_01]: and resulting in more distance.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you guys, so these are obviously, thank you for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great explanation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember those Fiji advertisements and sort of pictures.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great way to to characterize it.
[SPEAKER_00]: the blanks are different too, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you are a, okay, an expert raw designer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Talk to me about having designed some of the most popular fly rods series for for finishing for consumers in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like talk to me about what's different about these competition rods.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know they're not all the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to pick a category or a couple of categories to talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of this stuff, if you want to learn more, there's tons of information that kind of chronicles and details all of this on the American Casting Association website, which is American CastingAssosac.org, and we'll link to all this stuff, but there's all kinds of stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've got recommended guide spacing, they've got there's all kinds of information on here, but as a blank designer, this is a different tool.
[SPEAKER_00]: different how faster slower more complex zones of action like how are you thinking about the way you build because you've been building them for a long time since you're 15 or so you had born on carbon fiber.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody else had like how are you designing these rods differently for competition casting distance and competition accuracy then you might for an I guess quote fingers average.
[SPEAKER_00]: I say as they say that because I don't think anything lumbus makes his average.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's all above average but you know what I mean a typical fishing rod versus a competition rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the, in the accuracy casting, you could literally take a rod off the shelf and use it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would work really, really well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I still use a very vintage old I am six ride for one of my accuracy events, having a more moderate action actually and perhaps that's something that made dispel some.
[SPEAKER_01]: Miss NOMERS is that we don't really want a tip action fast-diff rod for a target rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: We want something that we can feel the rod load, even in spinning and bake casting.
[SPEAKER_01]: Similarly, we want something we can feel and control the cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not something that's pure mechanical and just jab at it and hope that it works.
[SPEAKER_01]: We actually get into a feel of the rods.
[SPEAKER_01]: We want a moderate action rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: Preferably lightweight, but in accuracy, weight is less critical than when we go to the distance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Talking distance, weight is a big factor.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Want the lightest blank we can get that has the right stiffness and taper.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the lighter it is, the easier it is to bring the blank in the rod on through we have length limitation so we tend to go up to that length limit, but if it's too heavy and we can't drive it fast enough we're better off shortening shortening the length of the rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: to the point that the individual has the best hand speed and delivery cast for the most speed.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a trade-up.
[SPEAKER_01]: How light can the rod be versus the stiffness?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've designed blanks in learning that blew up, like I'm casting all the power, the blank shatters, and that's scary.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to design it to be fully strong enough
[SPEAKER_01]: for the purpose of casting under maximum load and your double hauling in that rod is just like loaded up and pow you hit it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have some casters, the strongest man on the team is Rick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rick Hartman yeah yeah yeah yeah man you we have professional body builder and that guy is just so strong he's young and he's not breaking any of these things anymore we've developed them so we know for sure that they're not going to break but yeah it compared to the same stiffness in a fishing rod these blanks are thinner wall a little bit bigger diameter so you change diameter to gain stiffness but thin wall and you reduce the weight so that's
[SPEAKER_01]: In tournament casting, we shade more towards lightweight larger diameter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fishing, you need to have an extra one or two wraps of material for the bigger diameter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, lifting strength and durability and impact resistance.
[SPEAKER_01]: So thereby, the actions are surprisingly more moderate.
[SPEAKER_01]: We want to use this lever as a whole unit and a whole moderate load.
[SPEAKER_01]: and that gives us the most feel and correct for timing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not as critical like right off the flick of something.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a more moderate load.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our casting seems to gravitate towards moderate fast actions.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we use that in our fly, even in surf events, in the double-handed plug events, in double-hand spinning.
[SPEAKER_01]: Possibly in the accuracy spin, a little faster taper is fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: But basically comparative fishing rods even saltwater fly rods are way faster taper than what we use.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The five weight distance event, we're using rods that are at least an eight weight in power.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Realizing probably 75, 80, 85 feet of line, which adds up a lot more line than a standard five weight would be designed to handle a normal cast.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm casting a nine weight rod myself, but the stronger casters are up to an 11 weight to handle a long belly weight forward five so that tells you how hard they're hitting it to bend the rod and zing the line five weight long belly line.
[SPEAKER_01]: on 11 weight is what it takes to be at the top elite level and that event and these are common in the specific lines.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a different line than a fishing line or these are these fishing lines.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a line that anybody could buy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: This particular line is called the scientific angular mastery expert distance taper.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: He deemy for short.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they come in different sizes five, eight, six, seven up to an eight weight.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are the weight
[SPEAKER_01]: that have a long belly about 65 feet of belly and then it shrinks into the thin line.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have to certainly get out 65 feet so you can get the thin line outside the tip right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now we're double hauling and we launch the cast from there and a skillful cast we easily can hit 100 feet on no wind.
[SPEAKER_01]: But with a tailwind, the top casters are pushing 150 feet right now with a five, so called five way, it's a long belly line, it's incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then in C trout and other events we're using a shooting head maybe 60 to 65 to 70 feet long, monofilament behind it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a line that was created back in the late 40s, early 50s by Jim Green, the guy that taught me how to design.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he created that with film air valley.
[SPEAKER_01]: Another one of my top coaches, when monofilament came out, it was invented in France.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nylon was a byproduct of World War II and some stuff that the French were doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nylon came over to here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Jim Greene said, hey, let's cut off this thick flyline part and put this slippery skinny stuff called nylon, which today we use as just a matter of course, but Jim was the first person to put a shooting head together of fly line into monofilament double hauling and gain tremendous distance.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we all 100% are using monofilament after a section of floating flying and that's the rules of that event of all our events at lines have to be floating.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can cast farther with a sinking line by virtue of skinnier diameter line having less air friction through the air.
[SPEAKER_01]: It would go a lot further, but to level the playing field, we all use all floating lines, and then there's weight and length restrictions within each event.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and is this the governing body internationally?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it FIPSM or HUSO?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a...
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's the International Casting Sport Federation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I, I, C, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S, S,
[SPEAKER_01]: Fishing tournaments in Europe, but that's what led to some of the flyfishing tournaments that are are known and that we have a strong American team doing flyfishing tournaments.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's where we're catching trout and and there's teams for that as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we're doing strictly the casting side of the equation.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's the International Casting Sport Federation,
[SPEAKER_01]: We have an American, America was one of the first founding countries in 1956 of the International Casting Sport Federation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so we have 12 athletes on the team, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was calling it a master as you were calling it veterans.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: Veteran.
[SPEAKER_00]: So either case, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so no, you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was my forgive me for speaking.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're coming up in August, right, and it's in Italy, you know, I want to, you guys have been very gracious about this, but I don't want to be reticent about it at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: So first of all, go team USA.
[SPEAKER_00]: right like i'm a firm believer that this country with all the talent we have in all the resources we could dominate these events right but we need to support people that are participating these events and one of the things that was a little bit of a surprise to me is
[SPEAKER_00]: There are other countries that support their casters more.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, for example, we are one of the countries where you have to qualify for the team.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to make the team, which is no mean feat, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, once you do, you have to pay your own individual entry fees.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to pay your own travel to Italy and your own lodging food and everything else, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, also, you guys are having to build all your own specialized rods or pay someone to have them built.
[SPEAKER_00]: right, and there's just a, you know, there's just a lot of, in addition to being a world class caster and up to the level of competition, there's kind of a financial burden on team USA athletes to make this happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was kind of shocked and disappointed to find that out, but, you know, be that as it may, I'm happy to help by donating components, right, and helping you
[SPEAKER_00]: How else can people help?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if someone's listening to this and they're a very competent rod builder and they love to help the team, if someone's like, hey, I want to help with do they have events?
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to support fundraising events for the team to go to the worlds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our community is very generous.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're engaged in this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a lot of us, there's plenty of things we could find to complain about on this country today, but it's still the best place in the world to live and I think God every day for being here and I wouldn't go anywhere else and I wouldn't change a thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for those other like-minded individuals who really want to help team USA, how's the best way for us to do that Steve?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, appreciate the lead and
[SPEAKER_01]: On the website, there is a place a person can donate, which is an option of simply a few dollars when we are the other on our website, which can be directed towards the team going to the world championships.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: If somebody felt like they're willing to donate some time on maybe helping Rob building at some point, there are some contact names there, say, hey, I'm
[SPEAKER_01]: available to build a rod that would be great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of the castors just picked up new blanks this last week and I brought some new designs down and we had some new new excitement with a few new rods being built.
[SPEAKER_01]: Largely the castors can build their own.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm don't either have time because they work or whatever they don't know how to say some of them, but they're always looking for a rod builder and it would be really nice to get a list.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you think you have some time to donate,
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's in proximity to one of our castors that would be a wonderful donation of some time to to assemble a rod.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I think that would be possible by contacting one of the, the names on our website at the USDA.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and it's just, uh, we're very optimistic.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just got a text message earlier today from a gentleman named Tommy Farmer.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tommy is a very decorated conventional gear distance caster and has been on team USA.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he just texted me this morning that the the USA surf casting team just returned from their worlds in Italy and they took the second they took the silver medal.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have never placed that high that was an upset we were not expected to make the middle of the podium.
[SPEAKER_00]: and instead we did.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's awesome momentum for Team USA, not just on the fly side, but on the you know, conventional side, the surf casting side.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, there's a lot of people that thinks the veteran team that you're you and others are leading and taken to the competition this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we got a chance to have the whole podium with Team USA, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we kind of have a golden generation of some casters here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whitney Gould, one of the ladies on the team is one of the best spake pastors in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Full stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Notice I did not say one of the best female spake pastors in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's one of the best spake pastors in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: Full stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got a really good team and you know, if you're a business listening to this,
[SPEAKER_00]: you know we're talking to the team is is so focused on what they're doing and get ready and they're building the rods and practicing and and these are on their on a schedule of practice and taper and everything just like you would be if you're training for a triathlon or marathon like these people are taking it very very seriously.
[SPEAKER_00]: When they train, how much they train, you know, leading up to the event, there's a peak in a taper like, but if you want to help reach out, please, you can, all you have to do is Google the American casting association, you'll find it easily and we'll post all these links to Steve, but
[SPEAKER_00]: The Golden Gate Casting Club, the Long Beach Casting Club, there's a bunch of organizations if you want to get involved that whole tournaments, train people, offer lessons, and there's lots of places to jump in and help this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is kind of in my fantasy world, someday we will dominate this sport, and we will also be a dominant soccer nation.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's taking longer than I expected.
[SPEAKER_00]: that was going to happen by the time I was 53.
[SPEAKER_00]: It hasn't quite happened yet, but we're capable of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think we're capable of it with the casting too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bill, I just want to mention that in my lifetime, the casting sport has kind of tapered downhill 50 years ago, there was somewhat like 30 clubs around the country and today there's about 12 that are fully active having regular tournaments and such.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we are rebuilding our sport in that sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to promote a little better developing our website.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to modify it before too long and improve upon it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But our sport is known to a degree.
[SPEAKER_01]: But where do you go?
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you do?
[SPEAKER_01]: There are a handful of active clubs in the country, but not in every state, not in every big city or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So unfortunately, it's not super easy, but you can find out about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're willing to travel a little bit, you can go to a tournament.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are fun things.
[SPEAKER_01]: These are not like cut throat and if you go to a tournament as a new pastor, people will pour on you to say, here's what you do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's what you got.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let us help you and people are very forthright and helping to learn and we're trying to grow our sport.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And why wouldn't we, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and you know, I have had some people tell me, well, that's different.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's competition.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not, you know, that's not fishing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And but, but here's what I'd say.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, listen to just what Steve has talked about, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because Steve was who he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: and was in the position where he was and was learning these measured lessons not subjective opinions not the way he wants the rods to look we are measuring what we're doing and we're trying to get lighter faster stronger further and and the tape doesn't lie right.
[SPEAKER_00]: look at the innovations that kind of came out of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: There have been countless innovations in design and materials, single foot, it's like there's so many things that the analogy that I sort of like to give people is I'm never going to be a formula one driver and I don't particularly like watching racing but because we have people out there on the forefront trying to go as fast as they can as safely as they can as few efficiently as they can you know as aerodynamically as they can
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where the innovation happens, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's part of why Fuji is so interested in supporting this community across the world, not just in the States, but in Japan everywhere, is the reality is the people that are out there pushing the limits like this, that are experimenting and measuring everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's breakthroughs and innovation there, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that the analogy would be, you know, I drive a Toyota Sequoia and I guarantee there's features in that car for safety and efficiency and something in the tires that came out of racing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that's the jagged edge, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that's that's where the,
[SPEAKER_00]: The bleeding edge of performance is, you know, these different events, like for maybe for Toyota tracks, it's these, you know, desert races or endurance races or things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I truly believe there's innovation that is available to anglers and rod builders in this space because of people pushing the limits, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, people are doing things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I watch the video.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're talking about occasionally blowing up rods when you're testing them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw some videos of Kaylin Hogg are casting and I was just flinching and whincing like he's loading and standing on the rod so hard, I was waiting for it to blow up, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's remarkable that the technology holds up and some of the stuff Henry's doing is a builder like he's it's fascinating, using size five single foot guides, sometimes using one or two more guides, sometimes using a conventional tube tip top.
[SPEAKER_00]: sometimes for the reduction of weight just wrapping a single foot size five on the very tip of the rod right not because he can't get one to fit but because that little bit of weight on that rod for that application matters right it's it's it's it's it's it's fascinating stuff so you know i would call upon all patriotic americans who also love casting and fishing to try to come support team USA like
[SPEAKER_00]: We support our Olympians, we support our professional athletes in a various leagues in our country.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please come help those who are representing us at the World Championships in Italy, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's so many ways to help as Steve mentioned.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can help with money, you can help with time, you can help with donating your skill and your labor, like all those things are needed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will make a commitment to you, any rod builder out there that ends up building for
[SPEAKER_00]: Team USA, if Team USA doesn't already have the components, I'll give them to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'll give your time and expertise to be an extra set of hands and wrap and finish rods to their specs for them, you can call me and I will support you with food you components.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's very generous.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, man, what a what a fascinating world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you feeling good?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's coming up August.
[SPEAKER_00]: Will you will you alter your training regimen any between now and then or how many days a week are you casting?
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that look like for you?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm barely really fortunate.
[SPEAKER_01]: I live on a small lake.
[SPEAKER_01]: I have a dog on my property and I have targets in the water that stay for a year around.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can practice there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can do long casting off of the dog.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: I am inviting a couple of my tournament friends to visit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, within now, until August, I'll have some friends come up to my house.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll cast here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we also in the nearby big city of Portland, Oregon.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a pond there that was built specifically for casting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's groups that are gonna meet there as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, we'll stay busy practicing here at the house in elsewhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and then we're always in touch.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, once you're in the community,
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and we practice, you know, several days of the week, and we try not to overdo it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't want to get, you know, tennis elbow or you don't want to ever rotate or cough.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can get tough, you know, blisters on your hand by doing too much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Silly is that sound, but basically, you know, we pace ourselves, but we stay involved all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I think you would have to, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just the things you don't even think about, like I was talking to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Rick and we were talking about something else and he was just mentioning how often he has to change lines because of where in a line out casting it's like, oh my gosh, it's like a conventional fisherman if I don't take it out and throw it in the street, you know what I mean like or the parking lot I could go seasons if I take care of a line and not go through it and he's going to go through what I mean that tells you how much casting is right in what an extreme application this is so anyway fascinating stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Man Steve, it's such a pleasure to get to talk to you and thank you for indulging me in my million questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: If people are interested and they want to get involved, best sources obviously, American casting association, you can Google it or it's American casting, ASSC.org and like he said, there's links there.
[SPEAKER_00]: There really are a ton of resources there and we're going to post all this in the descriptions with the podcast links to everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to help, you can donate there.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to help, you can get in touch with the organization there and donate your
[SPEAKER_00]: they need people to help run tournaments you can look up where these clubs are and see where tournaments and qualifiers are where youth events are if you want to go help judge and set up or serve food i mean there's always it's it's ultimately a volunteer community of people building this you know keeping this tradition of world class distance and accuracy casting alive for team USA and we'd love for you to get involved and you get to meet
[SPEAKER_00]: some pretty neat people like my guest Steve Ragef today so Steve I wish you absolutely the best of luck in Italy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope that our community will reach out and embrace Team USA and lift you up and support you and help you guys and I can't wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm really really hoping to see you personally on the podium in Italy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well appreciate it, Bill.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was really fun speaking about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I enjoyed it
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope to meet up with you and physically personally meet you anytime you have a standing you have a standing invitation anytime you get a fishing in Alabama come see me it would be my great honor will get into something for sure that be fine right and if you need any guides or real seats you know where to find me you reach out or have him reach out or whatever and I'm here I promise and we will we will look forward and I'll tell you what I'll make a commitment to our audience that after the world championships will
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll have you and some of the team back on and you guys can give us the debrief and in the hot wash and let us know how it went.
[SPEAKER_00]: Great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's such a pleasure talking to you Steve.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've heard so many tales about your generosity and kindness and mentoring of people and and you sort of known by many as the gentle giant of fly fishing and it's a it's a it's a true moniker and an Apropos and I just really appreciate your time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was an absolute pleasure to meet you
[SPEAKER_00]: appreciate a bill.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And thank you guys for listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: We really appreciate you tuning in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please remember to like, subscribe, and download, wherever you get your podcast content.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you next time right here on the Mastering Rod Building Podcast.