WEBVTT 00:00.031 --> 00:09.043 [SPEAKER_00]: here having coffee, reading a list of stuff, reading a list of like cool sweat suits. 00:11.486 --> 00:13.970 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm reading a list of like sweat suits to buy. 00:14.010 --> 00:17.314 [SPEAKER_00]: Gap has some new, you know, cool. 00:18.556 --> 00:21.260 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if they're cool, but, you know. 00:22.501 --> 00:28.269 [UNKNOWN]: Go on in. 00:28.289 --> 00:28.890 [UNKNOWN]: Darling? 00:42.640 --> 00:45.886 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so I sent you pictures of my costume ideas. 00:45.946 --> 00:47.088 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you like those costumes? 00:47.248 --> 00:47.709 [SPEAKER_01]: I do. 00:47.949 --> 00:51.395 [SPEAKER_01]: I liked the one I liked, the opposites. 00:51.415 --> 00:52.357 [SPEAKER_00]: I liked the opposite. 00:52.417 --> 00:52.797 [SPEAKER_00]: Each other. 00:52.817 --> 01:02.674 [SPEAKER_00]: I just, I think, like, there was something about how that looked to me that felt the most, like, boisterous and fun and visually appealing. 01:03.734 --> 01:13.599 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the idea is we're going to wear maybe those pants and like a cropped box, like Oxford with a tie in the beginning, and then like put the jackets on for full-heist. 01:14.361 --> 01:14.942 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, do the heist. 01:15.063 --> 01:15.384 [SPEAKER_01]: Great. 01:16.145 --> 01:17.449 [SPEAKER_00]: That's, that's the story. 01:17.629 --> 01:18.351 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the show. 01:18.668 --> 01:21.231 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I can't wait to see it. 01:21.291 --> 01:22.052 [SPEAKER_00]: What can I tell you? 01:22.072 --> 01:22.553 [SPEAKER_01]: OK. 01:23.033 --> 01:24.736 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I can't wait to see it either. 01:24.776 --> 01:28.100 [SPEAKER_01]: We open the show in a week from tomorrow. 01:28.861 --> 01:30.343 [SPEAKER_01]: And, whoo, Quinn? 01:31.905 --> 01:32.966 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope it's ready. 01:33.667 --> 01:34.628 [SPEAKER_01]: I hope it's ready. 01:34.688 --> 01:36.530 [SPEAKER_02]: It always is somehow. 01:37.852 --> 01:38.132 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 01:38.253 --> 01:39.594 [SPEAKER_01]: I do a lot of rehearsals here. 01:39.614 --> 01:40.255 [SPEAKER_01]: It's scheduled. 01:41.703 --> 01:50.116 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going, I'm flying into Orlando on Sunday and I took work off Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. 01:51.178 --> 01:59.370 [SPEAKER_01]: And so we're going to be rehearsing all day, every day for three and a half days, tech on Thursday, open the show Thursday night. 02:00.973 --> 02:01.594 [SPEAKER_00]: You got this. 02:01.894 --> 02:04.458 [SPEAKER_00]: That's all, you know, three days, it'll be really right there. 02:04.498 --> 02:06.141 [SPEAKER_00]: No problem, I think. 02:06.914 --> 02:08.484 [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be really right there. 02:08.505 --> 02:12.672 [SPEAKER_02]: It'll be really, really, really there right in your head. 02:12.922 --> 02:16.106 [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be, it'll be so close to right there. 02:16.246 --> 02:21.051 [SPEAKER_01]: I think the other thing is, is like, my friend of mine had said, I probably said this before, but I liked it. 02:21.091 --> 02:22.813 [SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to repeat it because I keep telling myself this. 02:23.754 --> 02:28.300 [SPEAKER_01]: Is he was like, whatever you and KK do, it'll be worth $15. 02:28.440 --> 02:32.705 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really, really great. 02:32.845 --> 02:34.667 [SPEAKER_00]: He's a pay-fifteen dollar. 02:34.787 --> 02:36.829 [SPEAKER_00]: People pay-fifteen dollars for bad improv. 02:37.310 --> 02:38.271 [SPEAKER_00]: So like, 02:38.251 --> 02:41.595 [SPEAKER_00]: Think about all the ones you're putting into the show, the thought. 02:41.615 --> 02:42.276 [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, exactly. 02:42.296 --> 02:42.937 [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. 02:43.077 --> 02:44.679 [SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I can't have all this experience. 02:44.699 --> 02:44.959 [SPEAKER_00]: $15. 02:45.239 --> 02:46.181 [SPEAKER_00]: What a good perspective. 02:46.241 --> 02:47.783 [SPEAKER_00]: I actually really love that for you. 02:47.823 --> 02:49.344 [SPEAKER_00]: I think that would call my system. 02:50.566 --> 02:54.190 [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know what, it's like, and I know it's going to be better than $15. 02:54.471 --> 02:56.173 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a promo for all of you in Orlando. 02:56.193 --> 02:57.314 [SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be better than $15. 02:58.235 --> 03:00.438 [SPEAKER_01]: We have we're bringing years of experience. 03:00.498 --> 03:01.900 [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be dance. 03:01.920 --> 03:03.161 [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be comedy. 03:03.181 --> 03:06.385 [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you should rename the show better than $15. 03:06.955 --> 03:20.205 [SPEAKER_01]: better than fit worth if worth at least 15 dollars I at least 15 dollars we have 300 seats to fill let's get weird let's get weird or land though let's get it or let's get it or let's get it or let's get it or let's get it or let's go 03:20.776 --> 03:31.667 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, I have to tell you, here's the really cool and exciting is here's the cool and exciting is we have friends in Orlando who work for universal and they're so incredible. 03:31.727 --> 03:32.748 [SPEAKER_01]: They're so amazing. 03:32.768 --> 03:45.620 [SPEAKER_01]: And KK and I, you just got a free ticket to the new epic adventures to like super Mario, Ministry of Magic, how to train your drag and even so like we're going to go to that part. 03:45.640 --> 03:47.222 [SPEAKER_02]: We have free tickets. 03:47.202 --> 03:47.943 [SPEAKER_02]: So fun. 03:47.963 --> 03:50.246 [SPEAKER_01]: So I get to go on like fun roller coasters. 03:50.306 --> 03:52.029 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I'm so excited about that. 03:52.490 --> 03:54.572 [SPEAKER_00]: That's gonna be a blast. 03:54.592 --> 03:57.076 [SPEAKER_01]: It's dare I say it's gonna be an epic adventure. 03:57.296 --> 03:58.338 [SPEAKER_01]: It certainly will. 03:58.939 --> 04:00.301 [SPEAKER_01]: This is not sponsored. 04:01.102 --> 04:02.624 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh, that's really fun. 04:03.065 --> 04:06.930 [SPEAKER_01]: I have to tell you it's not sponsored, but I'm really, I am, I am excited. 04:06.950 --> 04:09.914 [SPEAKER_01]: I think KK and I are work is cut out for us. 04:10.095 --> 04:16.804 [SPEAKER_01]: I started sound designing the show two nights ago and that's a new thing. 04:17.830 --> 04:20.834 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I haven't built a Q-Lab. 04:20.854 --> 04:28.865 [SPEAKER_01]: So Q-Lab is the system with which you put all your sound cues so that the technician presses go in the sound cues go on. 04:29.566 --> 04:35.874 [SPEAKER_01]: And typically, our other collaborator has created the sound, the Q-Lab, and so I did that. 04:35.934 --> 04:37.556 [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know either how to do that. 04:37.637 --> 04:38.758 [SPEAKER_00]: What a big girl. 04:38.738 --> 04:39.980 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, Quinn, guess what? 04:40.620 --> 04:42.703 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know I knew how to do that either. 04:42.723 --> 04:42.883 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 04:43.043 --> 04:45.206 [SPEAKER_02]: We love to figure out new things. 04:45.226 --> 04:46.427 [SPEAKER_01]: We love that. 04:46.468 --> 04:47.929 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, thank you. 04:48.049 --> 04:54.718 [SPEAKER_01]: And what was really fun about it is that one, like anything when you do a hard new thing. 04:55.779 --> 04:58.502 [SPEAKER_01]: I felt really, I don't, you don't always love the new thing. 04:58.863 --> 05:00.385 [SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed this new thing. 05:00.625 --> 05:02.788 [SPEAKER_01]: I really enjoyed it. 05:03.909 --> 05:06.332 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a lot of taking sound. 05:06.312 --> 05:15.806 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if this is illegal, don't tell Mr. YouTube, but I, there's a lot of free sound effects on YouTube, so I guess it's not illegal, and so you rip the audio out of YouTube. 05:15.826 --> 05:30.348 [SPEAKER_01]: You convert it from a YouTube to an MP3, there's a converter online, and then you stack the cues, so, um, like, I'll, you want to, you want to hear one of my cues that I built? 05:30.468 --> 05:31.911 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 05:31.931 --> 05:32.151 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 05:33.346 --> 05:35.148 [SPEAKER_01]: God, this sounds like it's gonna be so terrible. 05:35.709 --> 05:36.870 [SPEAKER_01]: It's an embarrassment to my work. 05:39.393 --> 05:41.196 [SPEAKER_01]: I built this up with three cues. 05:43.018 --> 05:43.378 [SPEAKER_03]: Here's a dry bike. 05:48.464 --> 05:50.166 [SPEAKER_01]: Does this sound like a car passing? 05:50.227 --> 05:51.027 [SPEAKER_00]: That's really good. 05:51.869 --> 05:53.270 [SPEAKER_00]: Did you do that all with your mouth? 05:54.271 --> 05:55.573 [SPEAKER_01]: I do that all with fully. 05:56.380 --> 06:06.813 [SPEAKER_01]: And then it slides, it just was like three different sound cues of a horn, a car driving past hitting a puddle, so I do stack this three. 06:06.873 --> 06:08.855 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, this is another one. 06:08.875 --> 06:10.017 [SPEAKER_00]: I've got an idea for you. 06:10.838 --> 06:26.337 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, do you think that maybe one day for one of these shows you and KK2, you guys should make your own just with your voices and record them so that it's your voices making a heart sound. 06:26.317 --> 06:36.050 [SPEAKER_01]: we thought about doing it all live and one of us on a microphone doing the full of the show but there's so much jokes so at one point there's going to be sort of like a, you know, whatever but I want to play this one. 06:36.070 --> 06:38.013 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, here is, you'll see. 06:43.460 --> 06:44.421 [SPEAKER_02]: It wants to be an alien man. 06:45.663 --> 06:48.627 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's been chosen. 06:48.647 --> 06:49.388 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, love it. 06:50.144 --> 06:51.346 [SPEAKER_01]: I was really excited about that. 06:51.387 --> 06:52.689 [SPEAKER_01]: I just was excited to build it. 06:52.850 --> 06:53.170 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 06:53.190 --> 06:54.753 [SPEAKER_01]: You set the timing of it. 06:54.794 --> 06:58.040 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like all those things and you're like, I can do this. 06:58.060 --> 06:58.561 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 06:58.581 --> 06:59.122 [SPEAKER_01]: I can do it. 06:59.644 --> 07:00.666 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was so excited. 07:00.686 --> 07:02.710 [SPEAKER_01]: I was just so, and all of it can be changed. 07:02.730 --> 07:04.193 [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm like, I did that. 07:04.393 --> 07:07.139 [SPEAKER_01]: I really, it's not going to be perfect. 07:07.159 --> 07:08.181 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a perfectionist. 07:08.201 --> 07:08.782 [SPEAKER_01]: I think it is. 07:09.063 --> 07:11.528 [SPEAKER_00]: Perfect actually. 07:11.508 --> 07:20.072 [SPEAKER_01]: What would you do now notes no notes and the other thing too is since KK and I are building the show together Both of us are directing it. 07:20.192 --> 07:21.496 [SPEAKER_01]: We're devising it together. 07:21.516 --> 07:26.530 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're gonna be doing the show without a proper outside eye 07:26.510 --> 07:36.650 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is also sort of scary to be like does this work is that I mean the good thing is our collaborator TJ is coming in the second weekend So I feel like he's gonna see notes. 07:36.830 --> 07:37.271 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure. 07:37.431 --> 07:38.553 [SPEAKER_00]: He'll give us some notes nice. 07:38.613 --> 07:41.820 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is great from someone you trust for solicited. 07:41.840 --> 07:46.729 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean It's they had to get some sense from someone you trust 07:47.435 --> 07:51.561 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, for the record, if you want, we can face time you in, we can resume, if you want to watch it. 07:52.002 --> 07:53.004 [SPEAKER_01]: We, you can give us some notes. 07:53.264 --> 07:54.125 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to give us some notes? 07:54.666 --> 07:55.147 [SPEAKER_00]: We love notes. 07:55.447 --> 07:55.908 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love it. 07:55.928 --> 07:56.729 [SPEAKER_01]: I love giving notes. 07:57.490 --> 08:00.074 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's the thing, I love notes from when I want them. 08:00.695 --> 08:03.119 [SPEAKER_01]: What I don't love is notes when I'm dating someone. 08:03.960 --> 08:04.421 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm learning. 08:04.661 --> 08:06.905 [SPEAKER_01]: This is what I'm learning right now about my life. 08:07.085 --> 08:07.886 [SPEAKER_01]: Is I like that? 08:08.768 --> 08:09.529 [SPEAKER_01]: Give me notes. 08:10.330 --> 08:13.194 [SPEAKER_01]: But if I'm dating you, think the sunshine's out of my ass. 08:13.435 --> 08:14.877 [SPEAKER_01]: Is that, is that so hard? 08:16.578 --> 08:20.885 [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like that's not a crazy day to give me, yeah, no, it's obvious. 08:21.606 --> 08:24.331 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what else is great is we have a Patreon. 08:26.935 --> 08:29.299 [SPEAKER_01]: It's Alicia or Alicia. 08:30.020 --> 08:31.122 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't know how to say it. 08:31.843 --> 08:38.614 [SPEAKER_01]: It's okay, this this is the spelling is Alicia because this is I went out at at high school at junior high and high school at the girl at the same spelling. 08:39.115 --> 08:42.180 [SPEAKER_01]: And her name is spelled her pronounced Alicia. 08:43.713 --> 08:46.076 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it Alicia or Alicia? 08:46.276 --> 08:51.782 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know that it's gonna be a party for you Yeah Alicia, Alicia don't eat it. 08:52.082 --> 08:52.763 [SPEAKER_01]: Alicia. 08:53.183 --> 08:54.605 [SPEAKER_01]: It would be Alicia. 08:54.645 --> 08:55.826 [SPEAKER_01]: It would not be Alicia. 08:56.066 --> 09:00.992 [SPEAKER_01]: It would be Alicia or Alicia You are a fun party. 09:01.052 --> 09:01.592 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't you? 09:02.113 --> 09:04.615 [SPEAKER_01]: We're gonna hang today in Patreon. 09:04.635 --> 09:07.999 [SPEAKER_01]: We got a bunch of episodes for you to consume 09:07.979 --> 09:10.447 [SPEAKER_02]: Alicia, you've got the key to our heart. 09:10.568 --> 09:12.855 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a joke about Alicia Keys. 09:13.357 --> 09:18.073 [SPEAKER_02]: My only concern is if your name is actually Alicia, you know what I mean. 09:20.315 --> 09:20.816 [SPEAKER_01]: Very good. 09:20.856 --> 09:24.362 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Alicia, Alicia, right on. 09:24.382 --> 09:25.384 [SPEAKER_01]: We're so happy to have you. 09:25.484 --> 09:25.805 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome. 09:25.945 --> 09:30.934 [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Patreon and we got some fun apps and next month I can promise. 09:31.635 --> 09:33.859 [SPEAKER_01]: There's going to be a lot of dating content in that one. 09:34.621 --> 09:36.985 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, you know what I did last night, Quid? 09:37.005 --> 09:38.087 [SPEAKER_01]: Tell me. 09:38.067 --> 09:57.257 [SPEAKER_01]: a date free no actually the date last week canceled and it's tonight great so we're gonna record tomorrow so I'll up to two on that tonight or last night I got free tickets did I have time to do this no do I say yes to free shit always hmm mostly 09:58.638 --> 10:02.285 [SPEAKER_01]: I saw a four-free curse a child on Broadway. 10:02.907 --> 10:03.909 [SPEAKER_01]: The curse child on Broadway. 10:04.149 --> 10:05.392 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I saw him was it great? 10:06.774 --> 10:07.536 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, okay. 10:07.556 --> 10:08.718 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, it's not the word I use. 10:10.101 --> 10:10.983 [SPEAKER_01]: It was magical. 10:11.043 --> 10:11.584 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 10:12.239 --> 10:12.580 [SPEAKER_01]: Why? 10:12.620 --> 10:13.862 [SPEAKER_01]: The theater was beautiful. 10:13.922 --> 10:18.431 [SPEAKER_01]: Two, all of the magic tricks were so cool. 10:18.511 --> 10:20.575 [SPEAKER_01]: The show was full of magic. 10:20.756 --> 10:23.982 [SPEAKER_01]: Like full of, there was like really a stage craft of the show. 10:24.002 --> 10:29.553 [SPEAKER_01]: I loved it really is a show that I think you have to know Harry Potter to go into. 10:29.593 --> 10:31.817 [SPEAKER_01]: And I do. 10:32.978 --> 10:36.904 [SPEAKER_01]: It's two shows that they condensed into three-hour performance. 10:39.228 --> 10:42.413 [SPEAKER_01]: There were certain moments I loved, and certain moments I didn't. 10:43.214 --> 10:52.388 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I could see creatively, artistically, that they were really trying to scratch that edge of like all the references they could put in. 10:52.655 --> 11:19.438 [SPEAKER_01]: to the show to be like oh everyone shows up like all the major players are there so I don't want to spoil for anyone but if you've read the books you won't be disappointed I mean yeah there's I will say there's a time turner involved in the show or makes sense so so that allows for a lot of magic and characters coming back and you know I kind of sat like this 11:20.701 --> 11:25.297 [SPEAKER_00]: describe what I'm doing when tilting your head knowingly and patiently. 11:28.347 --> 11:32.280 [SPEAKER_01]: I wasn't like, there was one moment I went. 11:32.885 --> 11:35.789 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, it was very fun, beautiful. 11:36.130 --> 11:40.336 [SPEAKER_01]: My friend and I were talking about how we really missed the original score. 11:40.416 --> 11:41.678 [SPEAKER_01]: It was like a lot of original music. 11:42.319 --> 11:45.143 [SPEAKER_01]: And I got to tell you, I need John Williams. 11:45.564 --> 11:48.087 [SPEAKER_01]: If I'm, oh yeah, I need John Williams. 11:48.368 --> 11:52.894 [SPEAKER_01]: That and also there's always the conflict of being in a Harry Potter experience these days. 11:53.515 --> 11:59.705 [SPEAKER_01]: That being said, went for free, didn't put any money points for a choice, which also feels good. 12:00.185 --> 12:01.407 [SPEAKER_01]: How did you get the free ticket? 12:02.483 --> 12:07.811 [SPEAKER_01]: My friend is the, he's like events coordinator at the, at one of our artists housing. 12:07.971 --> 12:10.014 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he's graduating. 12:10.034 --> 12:12.398 [SPEAKER_01]: He's my friend who's also getting his social work degree. 12:12.418 --> 12:16.063 [SPEAKER_01]: He's actually going to Idaho to graduate, shout out to him this weekend. 12:16.884 --> 12:21.191 [SPEAKER_01]: And he, he gets tickets for his residence. 12:21.211 --> 12:22.913 [SPEAKER_01]: So it's a low income artist housing. 12:22.953 --> 12:26.619 [SPEAKER_01]: And so he gets a bunch of tickets and offers them to his residence. 12:26.739 --> 12:31.005 [SPEAKER_01]: If they don't show up, like yesterday I got a last minute was like, carry you around. 12:30.985 --> 12:37.941 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to come to the show and I was like, yeah, I would go see that show for free, but what also is really cool is 12:39.608 --> 12:55.227 [SPEAKER_01]: two of the residents that were there, not actors, but it's the residents, it's all affordable housing and a lot of the people were previously unhoused, but it was one person's first Broadway show to see and apparently he asked my friend, like, what do I wear? 12:55.267 --> 13:01.214 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how to go to a show and now excited to be like, just wear this, just like you're going to a movie. 13:01.935 --> 13:08.923 [SPEAKER_01]: And so that's so cool to be a part of that and then another one hadn't, another resident hadn't been to a Broadway show 13:08.903 --> 13:10.126 [SPEAKER_01]: probably 40 years. 13:10.907 --> 13:16.879 [SPEAKER_01]: It offers those opportunities and selfishly I get the opportunity to come if everybody else doesn't go. 13:18.623 --> 13:20.307 [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I may need a seat filler. 13:20.347 --> 13:21.529 [SPEAKER_00]: Have them call Koa. 13:22.336 --> 13:22.997 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 13:23.017 --> 13:24.258 [SPEAKER_01]: I really want her to see it. 13:25.220 --> 13:25.600 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 13:25.700 --> 13:26.121 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 13:26.461 --> 13:41.120 [SPEAKER_01]: The thing is he's getting a new job because of his new degree, which is very exciting and the hard problem he's like, there's gonna be less free tickets and I was like, I'm gonna have to pay for tickets because I've seen a lot of shows for free with him, which has been great. 13:42.682 --> 13:44.385 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's what I did last night, right? 13:45.065 --> 13:45.606 [SPEAKER_01]: Party animal. 13:45.846 --> 13:47.489 [SPEAKER_01]: By the way, what'd you say? 13:47.609 --> 13:48.630 [SPEAKER_01]: I said party animal. 13:49.758 --> 13:53.522 [SPEAKER_01]: You know me, should I have been memorizing the script and working on my sound design? 13:54.302 --> 13:56.104 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I should have. 13:57.325 --> 14:03.651 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, oh, the other thing I have to tell you is obviously it's Wednesday, so I'm going into work for free lunch. 14:04.252 --> 14:09.037 [SPEAKER_01]: They started a new thing doing a new thing this week and I don't know if I love it. 14:09.917 --> 14:18.786 [SPEAKER_01]: What it is is it's an app called picnic and you order your lunch from a bunch of different restaurants. 14:20.167 --> 14:25.593 [SPEAKER_01]: lot of decisions to make and you get 20 dollars towards anything. 14:25.874 --> 14:26.254 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 14:26.274 --> 14:29.198 [SPEAKER_01]: And so it was really overwhelming. 14:29.238 --> 14:32.041 [SPEAKER_01]: I did it last night and I was like, do I do a sweet green? 14:32.061 --> 14:33.182 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to do that ever. 14:33.322 --> 14:39.189 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I think I would end up spending first of all, like, in an ordinary amount of time on it. 14:40.731 --> 14:41.112 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 14:41.132 --> 14:45.337 [SPEAKER_00]: And then I would also make a relationship where I'd get to the end and be like, I'm making the wrong call. 14:45.397 --> 14:48.300 [SPEAKER_00]: Whereas if you're like, yes, the restaurant, I know what I want from 14:49.934 --> 14:51.156 [SPEAKER_01]: So here's what I ordered. 14:51.216 --> 14:52.739 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to know what I'm getting for lunch today? 14:52.759 --> 15:11.233 [SPEAKER_01]: Or it's a brought-as Hawaiian bowl with white rice, super greens, chicken catsu, bulgogi beef, Hawaiian max salad, corn salad with a side of sauce. 15:13.424 --> 15:14.726 [SPEAKER_01]: is it better than sweet cream? 15:15.086 --> 15:15.707 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know. 15:16.308 --> 15:19.231 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you get $20, so you're like, I have to use all $20. 15:19.352 --> 15:21.975 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, add more corn, add more sides. 15:22.676 --> 15:24.378 [SPEAKER_00]: Add a cookie, add a cookie, hurry. 15:25.099 --> 15:26.901 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's tell some stories. 15:28.043 --> 15:30.205 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, you're listening to truly. 15:31.867 --> 15:35.312 [SPEAKER_01]: Hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry, hurry, I'm carrying up a moon in the past noon. 15:36.173 --> 15:41.760 [SPEAKER_01]: And Quinn, you go first, but after we hear from our sponsors, 15:43.597 --> 16:01.285 [SPEAKER_00]: I read this, I read an article in the New Yorker by Jane Mer, and that's the majority of where I came to understand this story, but I also read a magazine article in the Sunday Times and the Boston Globe. 16:02.345 --> 16:09.819 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the story of Gina Grant who is 14 years old in 1990 and lives in Lexington, South Carolina. 16:09.859 --> 16:14.527 [SPEAKER_00]: She does well in school and everybody likes her. 16:14.687 --> 16:17.232 [SPEAKER_00]: She's fun and smart. 16:19.895 --> 16:28.844 [SPEAKER_00]: And that is why it is so sad when the sheriff arrived at her house and comes upon what he calls one of the most brutal homicides he has ever seen. 16:30.165 --> 16:37.333 [SPEAKER_00]: There is blood all over this house and Gina Grant's mom is dead with a knife in her throat. 16:42.017 --> 16:49.665 [SPEAKER_00]: The What Happens in January 1991 is that Gina Grant pleads no contest to her mother's 16:51.603 --> 16:56.793 [SPEAKER_00]: She serves eight months in detention and is released on probation. 16:58.195 --> 17:09.055 [SPEAKER_00]: She then moves to Cambridge, Massachusetts to live with her uncle and go back to school at Ringing Latin, which is a really well regarded public school. 17:09.035 --> 17:11.879 [SPEAKER_00]: She's does really well when she goes back to school. 17:12.300 --> 17:13.621 [SPEAKER_00]: She's on the tennis team. 17:13.702 --> 17:14.643 [SPEAKER_00]: She's co-captain. 17:14.783 --> 17:16.485 [SPEAKER_00]: She's making perfect grades. 17:16.586 --> 17:18.829 [SPEAKER_00]: She's using extra time to tutor kids. 17:19.690 --> 17:22.374 [SPEAKER_00]: And so three years later, it's time to apply for school. 17:23.115 --> 17:25.979 [SPEAKER_00]: And she applies early decision to Harvard and gets in. 17:26.079 --> 17:29.684 [SPEAKER_00]: She also gets in the Columbia Tufts somewhere else. 17:29.764 --> 17:31.246 [SPEAKER_00]: That was, oh, maybe barn. 17:31.406 --> 17:32.348 [SPEAKER_00]: No, I'll look it up. 17:32.488 --> 17:36.173 [SPEAKER_00]: But she gets into a bunch of schools because she's real smart. 17:37.975 --> 17:51.958 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of these schools are like, oh, she's an orphan and we know that we know that these last years she lives with her uncle without parents, her dad, a died of cancer and her mom had died in some sort of accident when she was just 14, very sad. 17:52.399 --> 18:00.152 [SPEAKER_00]: None of these schools 18:01.448 --> 18:02.734 [SPEAKER_01]: Although is that a good thing? 18:02.774 --> 18:03.598 [SPEAKER_00]: How do you feel about that? 18:03.618 --> 18:04.361 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, that's what I want. 18:04.461 --> 18:05.767 [SPEAKER_00]: That's the crux of this. 18:05.848 --> 18:09.062 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that's mostly what I want to talk about because... 18:10.460 --> 18:37.581 [SPEAKER_00]: The idea of this case, I'm going to talk to you a little bit about some of the stuff surrounding it, but I think what everyone is buzzing about is what's deserved and not and what is rehabilitation and do we actually believe in it and is it something we fight for, is it something that we, how do we weigh it with punishment, how do we weigh that with children and you know, killing parents? 18:37.561 --> 18:44.590 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so just to give you more background and put some meat on the bones, Dana Grant is Gina's older sister. 18:44.630 --> 18:53.841 [SPEAKER_00]: She was 23 when all of this happened and she gave a statement to police and talks about how when she got home that night it was right before midnight. 18:53.901 --> 18:55.043 [SPEAKER_00]: She couldn't open the door. 18:55.123 --> 18:59.248 [SPEAKER_00]: It was bolted so she went to the gas station and called a sheriff. 18:59.228 --> 19:10.555 [SPEAKER_00]: gets back home sees her sister and Gina is hysterical and she's telling her mom and I got in a really bad fight and mom is her maybe even dead. 19:11.699 --> 19:26.948 [SPEAKER_00]: The fight was that Gina was dating this football player who was not a good student and had a record of they said petty crime, so I don't know if he was like drugs kid, whatever, like something. 19:27.149 --> 19:31.497 [SPEAKER_00]: Something that makes your mom say this guy's no good for you and they're fighting about it. 19:34.160 --> 19:48.778 [SPEAKER_00]: She was on the phone with this boyfriend in her bedroom and her mom died who is drunk at the time says to her and this is according to Jita who's the only word we have in this case, right? 19:48.798 --> 19:56.067 [SPEAKER_00]: She says that her mom said to her we need to have it out about that son of a bitch and takes off 19:56.300 --> 20:13.228 [SPEAKER_00]: her blouse and says I don't want to mess up my $300 suit and starts to take off her watch and rings when she says have it out she means physically have it out with her kid about dating this person and she they start to tussle. 20:13.208 --> 20:37.022 [SPEAKER_00]: Gina's mom falls down the stairs, gets up, starts fighting her again, and then Gina says her mom grabbed her neck and said, one of us has to go, and then the mom got the knife, and Gina's thinking, my mom is drunk, my mom is violent, my mom is going to kill me, and she starts screaming, 20:38.639 --> 20:44.197 [SPEAKER_00]: and the knife somehow goes into her mother's neck, but she reports that she thinks her mom did it to herself. 20:46.725 --> 20:50.657 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, the idea of it drunk wrestling and a knife goes in. 20:50.958 --> 20:55.103 [SPEAKER_00]: Her story is not super believable, obviously. 20:55.364 --> 20:59.870 [SPEAKER_00]: In the sense that you're drunk mom's dad or self in the neck, I don't know, I don't know. 21:00.911 --> 21:13.928 [SPEAKER_00]: What they discover that makes the story even harder to swallow is that in addition to a knife definitely being in her neck, there's 13 skull and head injuries. 21:15.258 --> 21:17.861 [SPEAKER_00]: So they say, well, then what's that story? 21:18.282 --> 21:20.765 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gina says, why told Juna, she fell down the stairs. 21:21.005 --> 21:23.188 [SPEAKER_00]: She also bumped into a really heavy vase. 21:23.508 --> 21:28.454 [SPEAKER_00]: And the idea of bumping into a vase, I don't know it's starting to feel cartoonish. 21:28.934 --> 21:30.216 [SPEAKER_00]: It's starting to feel off. 21:30.717 --> 21:32.759 [SPEAKER_00]: They go into Gina's closet. 21:32.999 --> 21:41.890 [SPEAKER_00]: They find a garbage bag in there, and it has towels that are soaked in blood, and it has a crystal candlestick, a very heavy candlestick. 21:43.321 --> 21:47.912 [SPEAKER_00]: This candlestick ironically had been a gift from Gina to her mom on one of her mom's birthdays. 21:48.974 --> 21:53.044 [SPEAKER_00]: But forensic says, yes, this is likely the weapon we're talking about. 21:54.226 --> 22:01.363 [SPEAKER_00]: When they go to Gina and they say, you hit this candlestick, which I am at a 14-year-old, 22:01.343 --> 22:05.470 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, necessarily the best judgment or, you know, foresight. 22:06.071 --> 22:07.133 [SPEAKER_00]: You hit this candlestick. 22:07.153 --> 22:10.158 [SPEAKER_00]: You didn't tell us about hitting your mom at all with the candlestick. 22:10.198 --> 22:10.919 [SPEAKER_00]: It's very clear. 22:11.019 --> 22:12.421 [SPEAKER_00]: She's been hit with the candlestick. 22:12.862 --> 22:13.904 [SPEAKER_00]: How does that factor in? 22:13.964 --> 22:18.071 [SPEAKER_00]: And Gina says, well, I hit it because I knew it would make me look like I killed her. 22:18.111 --> 22:19.433 [SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't kill her. 22:19.453 --> 22:22.117 [SPEAKER_00]: And I knew if you found it, you were going to say you killed her and I didn't. 22:25.302 --> 22:25.663 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, 22:27.145 --> 22:40.324 [SPEAKER_00]: Our justice system tries to protect the privacy of minors, but the sheriff releases it to the press the same day this happens. 22:41.245 --> 22:46.973 [SPEAKER_00]: And the reason that these schools will end up finding out is they'll get that press kit. 22:47.014 --> 22:56.427 [SPEAKER_00]: They'll basically get an anonymous letter with those newspaper clippings sent to them after having accepted her. 22:57.841 --> 23:01.219 [SPEAKER_00]: when this happens, and Gina is, 23:04.152 --> 23:09.397 [SPEAKER_00]: in the press now because Harvard is saying, well, we didn't know you killed your mom, we would have to rescind our offer. 23:11.299 --> 23:20.327 [SPEAKER_00]: The members of the folks in genus community are coming out and saying, this isn't fair. 23:20.407 --> 23:21.128 [SPEAKER_00]: This isn't right. 23:21.228 --> 23:23.950 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, you shouldn't have even known that she's a better man. 23:24.010 --> 23:24.551 [SPEAKER_01]: She went around. 23:24.851 --> 23:30.416 [SPEAKER_00]: She did everything, she went through her sons, she went back out, she went to high school. 23:30.536 --> 23:33.619 [SPEAKER_00]: She's a high performing student. 23:35.050 --> 23:37.012 [SPEAKER_00]: I want to bring up a couple more things. 23:37.293 --> 23:45.323 [SPEAKER_00]: One was that the board of parole is saying just so you know if this person was not white and pretty and smart and upper class. 23:45.523 --> 23:46.684 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not the story. 23:47.125 --> 23:48.967 [SPEAKER_00]: This is not what they don't get to go to Harvard. 23:49.067 --> 23:49.768 [SPEAKER_00]: No matter what. 23:50.129 --> 23:50.289 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 23:50.509 --> 23:50.990 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. 23:51.490 --> 23:55.675 [SPEAKER_00]: And then we start to learn more about her home life because that's kind of the why of it all. 23:56.276 --> 24:01.783 [SPEAKER_00]: And people say, well, the mitigating circumstances you have to understand is 24:01.763 --> 24:06.731 [SPEAKER_00]: that the story of this girl's life was she was showing up for other people. 24:06.972 --> 24:07.974 [SPEAKER_00]: She was a good friend. 24:08.294 --> 24:09.356 [SPEAKER_00]: She was a good student. 24:09.536 --> 24:18.091 [SPEAKER_00]: She was always kind and when she was 11 years old her dad died of lung cancer and her mom blamed her because obviously lung cancer. 24:18.131 --> 24:19.213 [SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be Gina's fault. 24:19.994 --> 24:23.620 [SPEAKER_00]: And she is trying 24:23.600 --> 24:49.759 [SPEAKER_00]: to take care of herself and show up at school in her mom's becoming a really violent alcoholic during these years and is bringing men into the house and sleeping with them and verbally abusing psychologically abusing Gina and in fact there's a very sad moment in Gina's life where one of the guys that her mom is sleeping with dies in the house and Gina finds the body 24:49.925 --> 24:52.109 [SPEAKER_00]: And she has to deal with that. 24:52.509 --> 24:53.911 [SPEAKER_00]: She's a lot of trauma. 24:54.713 --> 24:57.417 [SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, capital T trauma, completely. 24:57.457 --> 25:08.335 [SPEAKER_00]: And the defense team, I'll be at their defense team, but they say this was psychological abuse that is the worst we've ever seen. 25:08.375 --> 25:12.081 [SPEAKER_00]: And we have seen kids that have killed their parents. 25:12.261 --> 25:14.565 [SPEAKER_00]: This was really bad abuse. 25:17.667 --> 25:23.948 [SPEAKER_00]: because she's a minor, and it's supposed to be confidential, details of what that abuse was. 25:25.345 --> 25:27.567 [SPEAKER_00]: are not publicly discussed. 25:27.587 --> 25:27.967 [SPEAKER_01]: We don't. 25:28.067 --> 25:52.770 [SPEAKER_00]: So her crime is very is readily available because of course, but the crimes, the reason or the defense around in the history, we don't know about and Gina doesn't comment on it, but one of the state's criminal lawyers who has kids, he's read it, and he said, when I read what happened to Gina, 25:52.750 --> 26:04.328 [SPEAKER_00]: I thought about trying to become her legal guardian because that's how moving it is to hear what happened to her and how much she was trying to rise above it. 26:04.848 --> 26:15.404 [SPEAKER_00]: Now I didn't need to become her legal guardian because it's not nuncle from Cambridge adopted her and then I hear about how well she's doing in high school and this is an amazing story. 26:15.425 --> 26:17.728 [SPEAKER_00]: This is a story of somebody overcoming. 26:19.548 --> 26:19.868 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 26:21.070 --> 26:27.156 [SPEAKER_00]: And the mom's brother, Dot's brother Curtis, said this family was not dysfunctional. 26:27.216 --> 26:30.059 [SPEAKER_00]: This family was non-functional. 26:30.399 --> 26:36.666 [SPEAKER_00]: And he said, and I think that my sister was so messed up because we grew up in a really hard situation. 26:36.686 --> 26:39.489 [SPEAKER_00]: It was the depression where we were wearing flower sacks. 26:39.669 --> 26:43.193 [SPEAKER_00]: Our father was very emotionally violent. 26:43.173 --> 26:49.768 [SPEAKER_00]: And he was so awful to us that I can actually put my head in genus place and think I'd have killed my dad. 26:50.490 --> 26:52.394 [SPEAKER_00]: It's possible I could have killed my dad. 26:52.695 --> 26:57.385 [SPEAKER_00]: I can see where when somebody is going after you that way, you could kill them. 26:58.047 --> 27:00.813 [SPEAKER_00]: And I know my sister was going after gen about way. 27:01.154 --> 27:02.076 [SPEAKER_00]: It had to have been. 27:06.055 --> 27:14.008 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, this was a very violent scene because she was hitting her mother with this candlestick, and so that's why it was such a bloody scene. 27:14.048 --> 27:22.100 [SPEAKER_00]: But people talk about how kids that have been abused that way and then lit, it's usually very gruesome. 27:23.162 --> 27:25.786 [SPEAKER_00]: They don't kill, they overkill. 27:26.507 --> 27:28.991 [SPEAKER_00]: It's that feeling of can't stop. 27:29.011 --> 27:33.919 [SPEAKER_00]: Also, when you see cases like this, what makes it really hard to side with the defendant, 27:34.996 --> 27:42.976 [SPEAKER_00]: is that they often, because they've been abused, we'll have rad, like reactive attachment disorder. 27:45.261 --> 27:48.870 [SPEAKER_00]: What that then manifests as often times is, 27:50.723 --> 27:51.524 [SPEAKER_00]: a couple of things. 27:51.764 --> 27:56.509 [SPEAKER_00]: One is you won't see remorse because there's a deadening because it's a survival technique they've learned. 27:56.649 --> 27:58.471 [SPEAKER_00]: They've had to numb up. 27:58.972 --> 28:08.242 [SPEAKER_00]: So then when they come to you and I read a bunch of articles that were saying, oh, she made a joke when she got taken into a female police woman. 28:08.262 --> 28:12.166 [SPEAKER_00]: She was going to the bathroom and she said something like, you're not going to find any hidden body parts on me. 28:12.186 --> 28:14.708 [SPEAKER_00]: It's an off-hand comment. 28:14.728 --> 28:18.132 [SPEAKER_00]: First of all, 14 years old, second of all, 28:18.112 --> 28:24.612 [SPEAKER_00]: a separation always between yourself and what's happening is something you've grown used to because 28:25.132 --> 28:27.315 [SPEAKER_00]: it's a survival technique. 28:27.656 --> 28:31.782 [SPEAKER_00]: You also will see that these kids can be really manipulative. 28:32.403 --> 28:34.886 [SPEAKER_00]: Another survival technique they've had to learn. 28:35.527 --> 28:49.688 [SPEAKER_00]: And so when you see a kid that's emotionally distance and manipulative, and the facts are that they've killed someone, it's very easy to form an narrative around that paints them as a villain and not a survivor or a victim, right? 28:49.668 --> 28:50.529 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 28:51.490 --> 29:00.561 [SPEAKER_00]: The mom of Gina's best friend says, Gina would show up at our house all the time with weird injuries and weird explanations of how she got them. 29:00.661 --> 29:05.728 [SPEAKER_00]: She'd show up with a black eye and say, her mom tripped and put her knuckle in her eye. 29:05.748 --> 29:18.443 [SPEAKER_00]: Like, while stories, she fell down a flight of stairs and tore a bunch of ligaments in her ankle and then later years later would admit before this murder that it was her mother that had pushed her down the stairs. 29:20.566 --> 29:25.837 [SPEAKER_01]: It seems like there's also a failing of anyone to protect Gina when this abuse was happened. 29:25.857 --> 29:34.035 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, this poor woman, what happened, I feel so bad for this woman, I lean, so that's the mom of Gina's best friend, Christy. 29:34.215 --> 29:40.549 [SPEAKER_00]: And what happened is 10 days before this killing takes place. 29:40.529 --> 29:45.236 [SPEAKER_00]: Gina says to Christy, I'm scared my mom is going to kill me. 29:45.476 --> 29:46.458 [SPEAKER_00]: I'm really scared. 29:46.959 --> 29:56.012 [SPEAKER_00]: She's that we have to tell my mom so they go and tell the mom and I lean and says, okay, I hear you, she seems very worried that her mom is going to kill her. 29:56.453 --> 30:10.013 [SPEAKER_00]: What had happened is Gina and her older sister Dana found a gun that her mom kept and they're hiding it or throwing it out so that their mom can't have it because they think we're going to get killed by that gun. 30:09.993 --> 30:24.136 [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I don't know what to do, this woman I know is a violent alcoholic and her daughter's afraid for her life and the chair of the office says, okay, do you want to make a formal complaint? 30:24.837 --> 30:27.381 [SPEAKER_00]: And she said, I don't know because here's the problem. 30:27.502 --> 30:30.246 [SPEAKER_00]: If I make a formal complaint right now, 30:30.226 --> 30:33.271 [SPEAKER_00]: Gina's been allowed to live almost half the time at my house. 30:33.711 --> 30:34.813 [SPEAKER_00]: This is her sanctuary. 30:34.873 --> 30:36.596 [SPEAKER_00]: This is how she gets away from this woman. 30:37.076 --> 30:43.205 [SPEAKER_00]: If I make a formal complaint and her mom, she's still a minor, says, you're not going to that woman's house anymore. 30:43.366 --> 30:47.372 [SPEAKER_00]: I've actually pulled the rug out from under Gina and she doesn't have a safe place to go. 30:47.412 --> 30:50.436 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the only scaffolding left for this child. 30:50.717 --> 30:51.638 [SPEAKER_00]: Do I take it away? 30:51.698 --> 30:55.704 [SPEAKER_00]: So I think probably I Lee looks back and goes, did I do the wrong thing? 30:55.844 --> 30:56.385 [SPEAKER_00]: But, 30:56.365 --> 31:06.705 [SPEAKER_00]: You see where her hands are tied and she doesn't know what the right thing is, because it just because you go through a system, doesn't mean the system is, is work going to work in your own way. 31:06.725 --> 31:08.628 [SPEAKER_01]: It's very good going to be, yeah, exactly. 31:08.648 --> 31:14.239 [SPEAKER_00]: It just takes the heat off you because you go while I did something, but does it really fix anything or does it make it worse? 31:14.219 --> 31:26.816 [SPEAKER_00]: The other thing that happens before all this goes down is Gina has other support systems which is just to say an assistant principal who really cares about her, who moves to another school and kind of vanishes from her life. 31:27.617 --> 31:35.428 [SPEAKER_00]: And one of her teachers from when she was really young, who has often had her cunderhouse to help out with chores. 31:36.229 --> 31:39.273 [SPEAKER_00]: And she starts to go through a divorce and pulls away. 31:39.653 --> 31:43.078 [SPEAKER_00]: So Gina's adults, Gina's safe adults, 31:43.058 --> 31:46.982 [SPEAKER_00]: R-M-I-A at this time, when all this goes down. 31:47.002 --> 31:47.803 [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, God. 31:49.525 --> 31:52.127 [SPEAKER_00]: So, she's 14 when the murder happens. 31:52.267 --> 31:54.810 [SPEAKER_00]: At 15, she's pleading no contest. 31:55.411 --> 32:01.156 [SPEAKER_00]: She takes some anxiety inhibitors for when she has to speak about what happened in court. 32:01.937 --> 32:10.686 [SPEAKER_00]: And she says that her mom picked up a knife, she knocked it out of her hand, picked up another knife, and then that's when she grabbed the candle stick. 32:10.666 --> 32:12.830 [SPEAKER_00]: to defend herself. 32:13.131 --> 32:16.658 [SPEAKER_00]: What they think happened in the way of the knife getting into the throat is this. 32:17.580 --> 32:20.987 [SPEAKER_00]: She actually died by getting hit many times by the candlestick. 32:21.428 --> 32:24.594 [SPEAKER_00]: Gina then calls for boyfriend Jack Hook who's 16. 32:25.436 --> 32:28.422 [SPEAKER_00]: He shows up and he sticks the knife in the mom's throat. 32:28.502 --> 32:29.003 [SPEAKER_00]: Who is dead? 32:29.143 --> 32:30.987 [SPEAKER_00]: Just to make it look. 32:30.967 --> 32:58.088 [SPEAKER_00]: like a suicide they write a note they basically look it's a suicide and their kids trying to stage it but his prints were on the knife but they think this is after the fact he was yeah he then did have to serve a year in a juvenile detention center and he gets out and there's charges of grand larceny he's now serving a ten year sentence and an adult prison for completely different reasons oh that's sad very sad 32:58.068 --> 33:01.231 [SPEAKER_00]: And they really turn against each other, Jack and Gina. 33:01.251 --> 33:05.315 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they're kids, but I think Gina at one point tries to throw suspicion. 33:05.415 --> 33:09.359 [SPEAKER_00]: His way, he says, I never heard there was any abuse. 33:09.660 --> 33:13.884 [SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think there are each other's biggest allies. 33:14.064 --> 33:14.424 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 33:16.006 --> 33:21.111 [SPEAKER_00]: But the fact that she tried to cover up what happened, the fact that she tries to some point say it's him. 33:21.451 --> 33:23.473 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, nobody really thinks it's him. 33:24.234 --> 33:25.155 [SPEAKER_00]: All of that. 33:26.840 --> 33:32.086 [SPEAKER_00]: further implicates her as somebody we want to see unished. 33:34.609 --> 33:39.175 [SPEAKER_00]: It's like that's that all gets placed in that against Gina allegory. 33:39.716 --> 33:47.565 [SPEAKER_00]: But whatever happens in that courtroom some of the abuse I'm sure is revealed even though it's a close case and we don't know what it is. 33:48.305 --> 34:01.242 [SPEAKER_00]: The judge is very lenient with her sentence and gives her this year of incarceration and pretrial detention, and she gets released on probation into the custody of the aunt and uncle. 34:02.263 --> 34:07.270 [SPEAKER_00]: And the parole board are mad because they say she's getting rehab, but we don't see any punishment. 34:07.290 --> 34:10.914 [SPEAKER_00]: There's not enough punishment, and we've seen a lot of kids get abused. 34:11.615 --> 34:15.240 [SPEAKER_00]: Why does this one get it just walk out of here? 34:17.549 --> 34:32.082 [SPEAKER_00]: So the really the international debate that comes up over this subject is the Harvard of it all, where she's not lying, she's omitting everything about this having happened. 34:32.348 --> 34:44.101 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, she has a total falling out with her uncle, which I'm not surprised about, because kids with reaction attachment disorder have a really hard time making healthy attachments. 34:45.202 --> 34:46.063 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 34:46.083 --> 34:48.105 [SPEAKER_00]: And they say you've got to leave our house. 34:48.446 --> 34:49.647 [SPEAKER_00]: She goes and lives on her own. 34:50.788 --> 34:54.913 [SPEAKER_00]: She starts to date a kid named Liam while she's in high school and his parents. 34:54.893 --> 35:06.067 [SPEAKER_00]: become her new support system and family and when she's filling out her applications for college, she says to them, what do you think I do? 35:06.127 --> 35:08.309 [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, you served your time. 35:09.511 --> 35:11.213 [SPEAKER_00]: It's confidential because you were a minor. 35:11.654 --> 35:12.455 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to tell them. 35:13.276 --> 35:13.816 [SPEAKER_00]: You don't need to. 35:14.397 --> 35:14.577 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 35:14.597 --> 35:15.298 [SPEAKER_00]: And she doesn't. 35:17.472 --> 35:22.597 [SPEAKER_00]: She's following the law that is outlined by the state she lives in. 35:23.158 --> 35:24.579 [SPEAKER_00]: You do not have to do that. 35:25.320 --> 35:40.595 [SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, it's the idea of an educational institution is not allowed to ask about criminal matters, not resulting in convictions, and juveniles are adjudicated delinquent. 35:40.655 --> 35:41.656 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not convicted. 35:42.397 --> 35:43.919 [SPEAKER_00]: That's two different terms. 35:44.159 --> 35:46.281 [SPEAKER_00]: They're not convicted. 35:46.261 --> 35:48.144 [SPEAKER_01]: a judicated delinquent as well. 35:48.204 --> 35:53.032 [SPEAKER_00]: So if you look at that, it's she's following, she's under the letter the law. 35:53.052 --> 35:55.015 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, she didn't do anything wrong. 35:55.556 --> 36:03.409 [SPEAKER_00]: But in 1995, when Harvard, they get together, they have this emergency meeting, they say, we got this. 36:03.389 --> 36:21.887 [SPEAKER_00]: letter in the mail it says we've been hoodwinked it says this woman is tricked us it shows these articles from what happens these four-year-old articles from this case we've got a vote on what to do and they vote we're going to revoke this we're going to revoke this offer 36:22.205 --> 36:30.038 [SPEAKER_00]: They have someone told Gina, and instead of walking away, she says, why I'd really like to talk to them about this. 36:30.940 --> 36:36.208 [SPEAKER_00]: And meanwhile, Columbia Barnard and Tufts, those are the three other schools she's gotten into. 36:36.228 --> 36:37.551 [SPEAKER_00]: She's been accepted to them. 36:37.851 --> 36:44.162 [SPEAKER_00]: But the Harvard rejection, because it's controversial, and kind of a wild news story, it goes public. 36:44.542 --> 36:46.706 [SPEAKER_00]: So now those other schools are in the hot seat. 36:46.786 --> 36:47.908 [SPEAKER_00]: What are you guys going to do? 36:49.019 --> 36:54.844 [SPEAKER_00]: And the only one that says we're going to stand by our offer is Tufts. 36:56.292 --> 37:25.033 [SPEAKER_00]: tough stands a while, but it created this very heated debate about redetta opposite she's a protected minor this case is not public to like now it's splashed across the news it's beyond public and does this this do we believe in rehabilitation do we believe in rehabilitation do we believe in it and you know what there was a quote in the article the 37:25.013 --> 37:27.195 [SPEAKER_00]: I think she ends the article with it, even. 37:27.555 --> 37:43.731 [SPEAKER_00]: But I wanted to read it to because I thought, wow, most of these children who have killed their parents have been treated violently and told their worthless by their parents, and in the eyes of society, they're then proved that their parents are right. 37:45.333 --> 37:50.498 [SPEAKER_00]: When you do something like this, when you take away the opportunity for rehabilitation, you say, 37:52.013 --> 37:56.280 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, not you, and her whole life was that. 37:58.104 --> 38:01.129 [SPEAKER_00]: It's really such an interesting case, isn't it? 38:02.291 --> 38:04.434 [SPEAKER_00]: Really interesting, really interesting. 38:06.037 --> 38:07.760 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow, just devastating. 38:08.201 --> 38:11.727 [SPEAKER_00]: But I think she went to Tufts, you know, and probably as, 38:13.462 --> 38:15.246 [SPEAKER_00]: a smart cookie out there doing something. 38:16.569 --> 38:20.497 [SPEAKER_00]: Should I Google what happened to... No, leave her alone. 38:21.138 --> 38:21.699 [SPEAKER_01]: Leave her alone. 38:22.441 --> 38:22.962 [SPEAKER_01]: Leave her alone. 38:24.024 --> 38:25.307 [SPEAKER_01]: It's that question. 38:25.347 --> 38:27.893 [SPEAKER_01]: It's that age-old question of like, when does someone become an adult? 38:29.396 --> 38:33.765 [SPEAKER_01]: When do we stop having compassion for the trauma of their youth to... 38:34.859 --> 38:46.590 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I do think the conversation around her money and privilege and power, her whiteness, I think is a really interesting conversation to have too, because like, 38:49.270 --> 38:54.300 [SPEAKER_01]: how many people can get those opportunities and have a good defense attorney to defend. 38:54.380 --> 38:59.730 [SPEAKER_01]: And we've covered cases of people have been sexually trafficked. 39:00.351 --> 39:01.854 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry, people have been trafficked. 39:02.595 --> 39:06.002 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, so they, I just, like it's such an interesting way there. 39:06.102 --> 39:07.785 [SPEAKER_00]: And there was student protests. 39:07.765 --> 39:08.166 [SPEAKER_00]: God. 39:08.426 --> 39:09.388 [SPEAKER_00]: How bad would you feel? 39:09.408 --> 39:10.850 [SPEAKER_00]: You just want to go to school and learn. 39:10.910 --> 39:12.152 [SPEAKER_00]: She wants to learn biology. 39:12.172 --> 39:14.495 [SPEAKER_00]: She's trying to go to Tufts and there's students protesting it. 39:15.197 --> 39:18.281 [SPEAKER_00]: And they were like, we're going to let you be in the school. 39:18.301 --> 39:19.563 [SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to treat you in a different way. 39:19.703 --> 39:24.912 [SPEAKER_00]: Except we are not going to give you a roommate. 39:24.932 --> 39:25.232 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 39:25.332 --> 39:28.457 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, someone's got a single. 39:28.555 --> 39:31.422 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, again, you could start in school and everybody knows this. 39:32.204 --> 39:36.095 [SPEAKER_01]: God, we were, I was talking to some friends about going to school and renaming yourself. 39:36.295 --> 39:39.884 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you know anyone who started college and was like, hey, I've been going back to Jack. 39:39.965 --> 39:41.228 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I'm going to go by Jonathan. 39:41.308 --> 39:43.594 [SPEAKER_01]: You can just change your name because you're meeting all new people. 39:46.898 --> 39:54.735 [SPEAKER_01]: Here's his person who's, and here's this person who's like, I'm starting school, I'm going to go bite, not a murderer, she doesn't even have that. 39:55.657 --> 39:59.946 [SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, that's, that's, you know, she probably changed her name eventually. 40:01.293 --> 40:01.653 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 40:02.274 --> 40:02.534 [SPEAKER_00]: Wow. 40:02.755 --> 40:04.617 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a really, wow. 40:04.717 --> 40:06.218 [SPEAKER_00]: Just, yeah, brings up a lot of questions. 40:06.239 --> 40:06.959 [SPEAKER_00]: I do believe in this. 40:06.999 --> 40:09.062 [SPEAKER_01]: The thing is, I do believe in rehabilitation. 40:09.322 --> 40:10.784 [SPEAKER_01]: I do. 40:10.804 --> 40:10.904 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. 40:10.924 --> 40:16.170 [SPEAKER_00]: Well, rehabilitation does require this, uh, this leap of faith. 40:16.270 --> 40:17.491 [SPEAKER_00]: It's sometimes you're proved wrong. 40:17.531 --> 40:18.752 [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes you're proved right. 40:18.933 --> 40:22.056 [SPEAKER_00]: And it's only possible if we like, take that leap, right? 40:23.177 --> 40:23.438 [SPEAKER_00]: Right. 40:24.479 --> 40:30.085 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 40:33.372 --> 40:43.568 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, okay, I got this information from LAD Bible, AOL, Texas, something, did I get that? 40:43.729 --> 40:44.910 [SPEAKER_01]: And CBS. 40:45.311 --> 40:51.581 [SPEAKER_01]: No, and just CBS, I think Texas is the ex-state that this takes place in Texas. 40:52.282 --> 40:55.347 [SPEAKER_01]: In 2012, I'm going to introduce you to 40:55.327 --> 40:56.008 [SPEAKER_01]: Who is this? 40:56.188 --> 40:59.291 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to tell you, I don't know about Chris Todd Eric. 41:00.232 --> 41:02.054 [SPEAKER_01]: He's 23 years old. 41:02.294 --> 41:03.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Reference names. 41:04.457 --> 41:05.197 [SPEAKER_01]: Three first names. 41:05.938 --> 41:14.027 [SPEAKER_01]: He in 2012 he's living at his grandma's house and the reason he's living in his grandma's house is he's someone who has suffered from depression. 41:14.767 --> 41:22.195 [SPEAKER_01]: He's struggling with addiction to his overall medication and he's having suicidal ideations. 41:22.175 --> 41:23.377 [SPEAKER_01]: his parents are split. 41:23.517 --> 41:24.258 [SPEAKER_01]: They're not together. 41:24.298 --> 41:26.662 [SPEAKER_01]: His family wants him to get help. 41:26.702 --> 41:28.806 [SPEAKER_01]: His mother specifically is like, he needs help. 41:28.946 --> 41:33.353 [SPEAKER_01]: He needs someone else to help not, you know, grandma, but grandma's like, you know what? 41:33.553 --> 41:34.675 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think he's okay. 41:34.695 --> 41:35.777 [SPEAKER_01]: Let him just move in with me. 41:36.458 --> 41:37.119 [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be fine. 41:37.419 --> 41:38.581 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll make sure I'll watch him. 41:38.861 --> 41:40.504 [SPEAKER_01]: It'll be okay. 41:41.682 --> 41:57.495 [SPEAKER_01]: Needless to say, Grandma is not, I think, the best, the best person for the job, because I think you do need experience, and sadly, November 10th, 2012, they go into his room and they discover that he is dead. 41:58.657 --> 42:01.463 [SPEAKER_01]: The circumstances around his death, um, 42:03.147 --> 42:03.929 [SPEAKER_01]: are confusing. 42:04.350 --> 42:11.449 [SPEAKER_01]: Initially, when they find him, they believe that he suffered two heart attacks in his sleep due to a heart condition. 42:12.331 --> 42:18.186 [SPEAKER_01]: So it is initially ruled as natural causes and then later they update it to suicide. 42:18.166 --> 42:24.598 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, what you need to know is very quickly after they find his body, they cremate him. 42:25.420 --> 42:27.664 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, this is all handled by his dad. 42:28.385 --> 42:39.887 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, his parents were not together a couple days after his body was found that he was cremated, and his mom was given a necklace with some of his ashes in it, but there was no funeral. 42:39.867 --> 42:41.390 [SPEAKER_01]: Kimberly is his mom's name. 42:41.570 --> 42:45.496 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how much she saw the body when he died. 42:46.478 --> 42:55.473 [SPEAKER_01]: His mother is obviously distraught and heartbroken at the loss of her son and She starts to look at crime scene photos in fact. 42:55.533 --> 43:04.187 [SPEAKER_01]: She asks for case materials and she notices in one of the images There's a chair with straps attached 43:04.167 --> 43:18.362 [SPEAKER_01]: He also sees in the photos that he's covered in bruises and lacerations when he dies and then she sees dry salt on his lips and she's like it's cyanide, it's cyanide. 43:18.933 --> 43:21.698 [SPEAKER_01]: And so she's like, I don't think this was suicide. 43:21.858 --> 43:25.485 [SPEAKER_01]: I think this was murder, and I need them to investigate further. 43:25.545 --> 43:30.273 [SPEAKER_01]: So she pleads with the police to run a toxicity report on her son. 43:31.515 --> 43:33.759 [SPEAKER_01]: And they've reserved a vial of his blood. 43:34.340 --> 43:37.366 [SPEAKER_01]: And so to appease Kimberly, they test his blood. 43:37.887 --> 43:43.236 [SPEAKER_01]: And they find in the blood, they find a lethal dose of cyanide in his system. 43:45.157 --> 43:51.673 [SPEAKER_01]: This changes the cause of death to cyanide toxicity and not a heart condition. 43:52.818 --> 44:17.526 [SPEAKER_01]: two years after his death in 2014, a grand jury launches a murder probe to find out who gave Chris the cyanide, but there's no evidence they can't figure out who there's no proof that he was killed and his death remains listed as a suicide by quote undetermined means and they say there's no signs of foul play in his death. 44:17.506 --> 44:28.564 [SPEAKER_01]: This is incredibly unsatisfying for him because she believes there was more to his death and the fact that there's a cyanide poisoning. 44:28.624 --> 44:30.427 [SPEAKER_01]: That's a painful way to die. 44:30.467 --> 44:32.490 [SPEAKER_01]: Did he administer it to himself? 44:32.751 --> 44:33.692 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it a suicide? 44:33.732 --> 44:38.620 [SPEAKER_01]: He did have suicidal ideations, but 44:38.600 --> 45:01.485 [SPEAKER_01]: she was really confused by all the last serrations and also let it be known that he had on his temple I think on his right side of his body on his right side of his head there was a skull fracture too that was found when he was dead which is again if you're hurting yourself why do you have a skull fracture like I don't understand how one would get a skull fracture from a poisoning that doesn't totally make sense right 45:01.465 --> 45:05.291 [SPEAKER_01]: So flash forward Kim is distraught. 45:05.832 --> 45:07.915 [SPEAKER_01]: There's been no funeral, so she has no closure. 45:07.935 --> 45:12.181 [SPEAKER_01]: All she has are these ashes in a little necklace for herself, of her son. 45:12.662 --> 45:14.004 [SPEAKER_01]: That's her, that's all she has. 45:14.765 --> 45:17.770 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's 2018 and she's online. 45:18.330 --> 45:20.213 [SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever been to a real body as exhibit? 45:20.373 --> 45:21.415 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 45:21.783 --> 45:23.586 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, okay, amazing. 45:24.628 --> 45:27.133 [SPEAKER_01]: They're amazing and super freaky. 45:27.393 --> 45:33.505 [SPEAKER_01]: So the real body's exhibit is it's something like they have a bunch of bodies on display. 45:33.765 --> 45:39.075 [SPEAKER_01]: The time I saw it, I remember there was like a cross section of the body that you could see all of the organs. 45:39.516 --> 45:42.061 [SPEAKER_01]: They also have people plasticated. 45:42.121 --> 45:45.006 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's plastic over someone's body. 45:44.986 --> 45:48.130 [SPEAKER_01]: so you can see all of the anatomy and things like that. 45:48.171 --> 45:49.753 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a really incredible exhibit. 45:49.793 --> 46:14.588 [SPEAKER_01]: So Kimberly, Chris's mom, is looking through an exhibit, the real body is exhibit in Vegas, and she's looking through the bodies, and she sees one of the bodies is posed like a thinker, and I think it's because part of the brain is exposed, and you can see parts of the body, and she sees this body, and she says, 46:18.027 --> 46:23.420 [SPEAKER_01]: In Vegas, there are 20 preserved human bodies on display, and it gives obviously this immersive view. 46:23.440 --> 46:26.869 [SPEAKER_01]: As soon as she sees it, she says, I knew it was him. 46:26.889 --> 46:29.635 [SPEAKER_01]: It was so unbelievably painful to look at. 46:29.976 --> 46:34.467 [SPEAKER_01]: My words cannot describe how this shook me and my family to its core. 46:34.447 --> 46:39.195 [SPEAKER_01]: She continued, I was actually looking at pictures of my son's skinned butchered body. 46:39.756 --> 46:40.818 [SPEAKER_01]: It is gut-wrenching. 46:41.960 --> 46:46.428 [SPEAKER_01]: She said as Chris's mother, I recognize everything about him, nothing was adding up. 46:46.909 --> 46:50.295 [SPEAKER_01]: I needed to know the truth about what happened to my son. 46:50.275 --> 46:58.008 [SPEAKER_01]: So she's now on this mission to confirm that this body is her son's body. 46:58.128 --> 46:59.250 [SPEAKER_01]: She's like, I'm his mom. 46:59.611 --> 46:59.951 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 47:00.091 --> 47:01.554 [SPEAKER_01]: And she's posting about it online. 47:01.995 --> 47:07.103 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a bunch of online discourse where people are like, a mother knows her son. 47:07.083 --> 47:11.372 [SPEAKER_01]: She asks the exhibit to conduct a DNA test on the body to confirm who it is. 47:11.392 --> 47:17.644 [SPEAKER_01]: She starts to do her own research and waiting to see before the DNA test. 47:17.925 --> 47:23.877 [SPEAKER_01]: If they'll even process the DNA test, of course spoiler, they do not process any DNA test. 47:23.857 --> 47:31.948 [SPEAKER_01]: She starts studying this body, she becomes obsessed with this plasticated body, and she sees there's similar anatomical similarities to her son. 47:32.249 --> 47:33.751 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously, she believes it looks like him. 47:33.971 --> 47:39.739 [SPEAKER_01]: Additionally, like I mentioned, there was a deep skull fracture on the right side of his temple when he died. 47:39.759 --> 47:52.176 [SPEAKER_00]: And this body also has a deep skull fracture on the right side. 47:53.455 --> 47:57.721 [SPEAKER_00]: attached to identity to them, yeah, yeah. 47:57.741 --> 48:01.205 [SPEAKER_01]: This face from what I was I saw in pictures is the face. 48:01.245 --> 48:19.429 [SPEAKER_01]: There was some because it was plasticated, there was some formation on the skull, on the facial so that it wasn't just a skeleton, there was a formed face and this and Kimberly sees it 48:20.185 --> 48:34.005 [SPEAKER_01]: She also criss-had tattoos and she notices that in the plastinated body that there are areas where her suns tattoos are that you can tell that the skin and muscle has been shaved down to conceal the identity. 48:34.246 --> 48:38.732 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, could it be that these tattoos were in popular locations and somebody else had a tattoo? 48:39.033 --> 48:41.416 [SPEAKER_01]: They try to preserve the anonymity of these bodies. 48:41.897 --> 48:47.425 [SPEAKER_01]: So, she notices where her suns tattoos are that the body is shaved down. 48:47.405 --> 48:50.910 [SPEAKER_01]: because the tattoos, I think, are the sub-dermal part of your body. 48:50.930 --> 48:52.753 [SPEAKER_01]: You have to remove identifying markers. 48:53.434 --> 48:55.036 [SPEAKER_01]: She's making a hoop love this. 48:55.356 --> 48:56.638 [SPEAKER_01]: She's putting it on into the world. 48:56.678 --> 48:58.401 [SPEAKER_01]: The real body is exhibit in Vegas. 48:58.441 --> 49:01.626 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like there is no factual basis for these allegations. 49:01.726 --> 49:11.640 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, the body that she believes is her son, we've actually had in our collection for 20 years, which was long before Christ died, and we bought it from China. 49:11.620 --> 49:17.033 [SPEAKER_01]: They say that all specimens are ethically sourced and biologically unidentifiable. 49:17.755 --> 49:22.626 [SPEAKER_01]: We remain committed to ensuring that all exhibits meet the highest ethical and legal standards. 49:23.095 --> 49:25.618 [SPEAKER_01]: Kim is not done. 49:26.118 --> 49:27.620 [SPEAKER_01]: She believes this is her son, yeah. 49:28.240 --> 49:38.451 [SPEAKER_01]: She says that after she brings this up, the exhibit takes the body that she believes is crests and they move it to Union City Tennessee. 49:39.191 --> 49:45.558 [SPEAKER_01]: What's worth noting is there is no evidence that the body arrived in Union City, Tennessee. 49:46.078 --> 49:48.541 [SPEAKER_01]: So there's a marker of the body was like leaving the body. 49:48.561 --> 49:49.862 [SPEAKER_00]: They lost the body. 49:51.175 --> 49:52.738 [SPEAKER_01]: and it hasn't been seen since. 49:53.039 --> 49:55.865 [SPEAKER_01]: Like this body and question, we don't know where the body is. 49:57.588 --> 50:02.879 [SPEAKER_01]: She said, Chris was never abandoned in life and I don't want him to be abandoned in death either. 50:02.899 --> 50:08.070 [SPEAKER_01]: I know Chris has gone and there's no fixing that but the remains of his body are important to us. 50:09.029 --> 50:12.736 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, keep in mind, all she has are these ashes around her neck. 50:12.756 --> 50:15.021 [SPEAKER_01]: So this is a mother who also didn't have a funeral. 50:15.101 --> 50:19.330 [SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of unresolved trauma and turmoil here. 50:20.071 --> 50:30.953 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, she's worried that they took the body and they destroyed the body in order to get rid of any evidence of their wrongdoing of their malfeasance of whatever happened. 50:30.933 --> 50:47.071 [SPEAKER_01]: In fact, November 2025, so just a couple months ago, in Vegas, there was discovered to be hundreds of piles of human remains littered across the desert just outside Vegas. 50:48.452 --> 50:59.404 [SPEAKER_01]: So what I mean by human remains is there's a picture of it, but imagine you're looking at a desert 51:01.477 --> 51:15.418 [SPEAKER_01]: Police discovered this and they found human bones, human ash, basically it's like they were able to look and they found 315 piles of human ash remains in Vegas. 51:16.559 --> 51:18.603 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody knows where they came from. 51:20.105 --> 51:22.729 [SPEAKER_01]: Nobody has any idea how they got there. 51:24.511 --> 51:26.995 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, Kimberly is like, wait a minute. 51:27.464 --> 51:28.245 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what happened. 51:28.646 --> 51:29.867 [SPEAKER_01]: I had my son's body. 51:29.987 --> 51:31.389 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, they had my son's body. 51:31.790 --> 51:32.851 [SPEAKER_01]: They cremated him. 51:32.891 --> 51:36.175 [SPEAKER_01]: They dumped it in the middle of the desert. 51:36.195 --> 51:38.759 [SPEAKER_01]: And they did this with 315 other bodies. 51:39.239 --> 51:45.547 [SPEAKER_01]: Because of these, the motive, because they don't want any, we don't want to be found out that they have all these bodies. 51:45.587 --> 51:48.471 [SPEAKER_01]: Now, again, I want to be so clear. 51:48.491 --> 51:51.675 [SPEAKER_01]: There's no, there's no, there's a fairly correlation. 51:51.695 --> 51:52.717 [SPEAKER_00]: There's no evidence. 51:52.797 --> 51:53.798 [SPEAKER_01]: All of this is a mystery. 51:53.838 --> 51:54.959 [SPEAKER_01]: It's feelings, it's vibes. 51:55.460 --> 51:56.982 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't him. 51:57.974 --> 52:03.939 [SPEAKER_01]: It's connecting loss and grief to what would have you. 52:04.039 --> 52:09.364 [SPEAKER_01]: There is a very good case to be made that Kimberly is traumatized as any mother would be. 52:09.844 --> 52:11.165 [SPEAKER_01]: And she's looking for closure. 52:11.225 --> 52:13.988 [SPEAKER_01]: And she's looking for her son in everywhere. 52:14.488 --> 52:15.789 [SPEAKER_01]: In every place, you know. 52:15.829 --> 52:19.212 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I'm curious why she was looking at this human body as exhibit. 52:19.232 --> 52:22.675 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, maybe she's like us and she has just this curiosity about it. 52:22.775 --> 52:27.559 [SPEAKER_01]: But again, she was able to assign this body to her son 52:27.539 --> 52:32.564 [SPEAKER_01]: She couldn't save her son in real life, and so she's now focusing on this body. 52:32.984 --> 52:39.110 [SPEAKER_01]: But what is wild is that these piles of ashes that are discovered outside of Las Vegas in 2025. 52:40.111 --> 52:55.386 [SPEAKER_01]: Just so you know about these piles, a local funeral home, ended up going out to the desert, collecting the ashes, and they're putting them in urns, and housing them in a crypt at a cemetery so that people can come and pay their respects to these 315 piles of human remains. 52:55.366 --> 52:59.594 [SPEAKER_01]: The question I have is, are they going to be DNA identifying them? 52:59.775 --> 53:04.223 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this is pretty recent, these piles of remains that were located in Vegas. 53:04.785 --> 53:08.311 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm also just, ugh, it's Vegas, I'm like, though it could be anything. 53:08.712 --> 53:11.658 [SPEAKER_01]: It could be the mob, it could be a serial killer. 53:11.678 --> 53:16.227 [SPEAKER_01]: But 315 piles of human ashes, that's insane, that's insane. 53:18.282 --> 53:27.241 [SPEAKER_01]: So, all this to say, there's no resolution, the body of the thinker that Kim believes is Chris, is cannot be located. 53:27.281 --> 53:28.603 [SPEAKER_01]: She does not know where it is. 53:28.644 --> 53:32.512 [SPEAKER_01]: She is convinced that it is him and that this exhibition is covering something up. 53:33.393 --> 53:39.025 [SPEAKER_01]: What we do know is that, and also, I think similarly, the suspicious, 53:41.080 --> 53:45.125 [SPEAKER_01]: the suspicions around his death too, I think are haunting as well. 53:45.225 --> 53:53.775 [SPEAKER_01]: It could just be that he administered a cyanide, a lethal cyanide dose to himself, to end his own life, huh? 53:53.795 --> 53:56.278 [SPEAKER_01]: Again, there could be other explanations. 53:56.338 --> 53:58.780 [SPEAKER_01]: This is a story with no resolution. 53:58.961 --> 53:59.381 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, of course. 53:59.401 --> 54:00.202 [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of questions. 54:00.222 --> 54:08.792 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, and a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of curious coincidences surrounding the loss of 54:13.345 --> 54:13.906 [SPEAKER_00]: And that's it. 54:14.447 --> 54:15.088 [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. 54:15.108 --> 54:16.410 [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what am I saying? 54:16.430 --> 54:17.532 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any idea what it is? 54:17.552 --> 54:19.155 [SPEAKER_00]: No, it's, wow. 54:19.695 --> 54:25.385 [SPEAKER_00]: Just just feels like they should make a movie, but I guess they would get sued, but I bet lifetime has made one. 54:26.407 --> 54:26.587 [SPEAKER_00]: Ha ha ha. 54:26.607 --> 54:28.250 [SPEAKER_00]: For sure, for sure. 54:28.290 --> 54:29.672 [SPEAKER_01]: Hey, I have a question for you. 54:30.473 --> 54:35.562 [SPEAKER_01]: My friend was like, you have a phone that's lithium battery is exploding, and I was like, I do. 54:36.163 --> 54:38.106 [SPEAKER_01]: And he's like, that could explode at any time. 54:38.266 --> 54:39.488 [SPEAKER_01]: Where do I take this? 54:41.037 --> 54:42.539 [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know the answer. 54:42.939 --> 54:50.690 [SPEAKER_00]: I know that they do electronic recycling at our farmers market on Sundays. 54:51.170 --> 55:00.242 [SPEAKER_00]: But I, so that tells me that they do that at probably other farmers markets that are close to you or whatever, but you have to get rid of it. 55:02.104 --> 55:04.908 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it could explode at any time, and I'm like, well, it's right. 55:05.469 --> 55:07.872 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been in my house for over a year. 55:08.527 --> 55:10.891 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't know, no, I just don't know what to do with it. 55:11.071 --> 55:12.613 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a fault I don't know what to do with it. 55:12.633 --> 55:15.137 [SPEAKER_01]: So do you tell him about my guess, huh? 55:15.157 --> 55:17.541 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, my friend looked at me and was like, you have that in your home. 55:17.561 --> 55:20.105 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, yeah, and he's like, that's not good. 55:20.125 --> 55:23.830 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, and then I just saw it while I was recording it. 55:23.850 --> 55:30.761 [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I probably should take it with me into the city and see if I can go to a tea mobile and be like, can you just take this? 55:31.241 --> 55:31.802 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 55:31.822 --> 55:32.423 [SPEAKER_01]: Can you take this? 55:32.603 --> 55:32.904 [SPEAKER_01]: Yep. 55:32.924 --> 55:33.665 [SPEAKER_01]: That's maybe what I'll do. 55:34.186 --> 55:34.406 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 55:35.508 --> 55:35.969 [SPEAKER_01]: I gotta go. 55:36.249 --> 55:36.930 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, me too. 55:38.058 --> 55:38.762 [SPEAKER_01]: Love you guys. 55:47.093 --> 55:47.173 [UNKNOWN]: Bye.