[SPEAKER_01]: This episode of True's Table is brought to you by our NAACP Image Award-nominated book, True's Table, Black Women's Musings on Life, Love, and Liberation.
[SPEAKER_01]: Get it where all books are sold.
[SPEAKER_00]: Brothers, y'all all right?
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[SPEAKER_00]: And you've been sitting at the table with us all these years.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are so grateful that you have been listening to us through these years.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now pull up a chair and have a seat at the table with us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey y'all, welcome to True Sabre.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll move on to the culture for Grace to True.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm a community, and I'm Christina, this table is built by Black woman and four Black women.
[SPEAKER_00]: So welcome to the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: See you.
[SPEAKER_00]: How you doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm doing good today.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know, it's one of those times in life where you have to save her the good.
[SPEAKER_03]: You've got a good, a good, out of the look in the Maya and enjoy yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: How are you doing today?
[SPEAKER_00]: I am good, and I want you to enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself, enjoy yourself with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey!
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_02]: Enjoy yourself with me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like songs are going to blow up on this episode today.
[SPEAKER_02]: The songs will not happen until we get enough.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's all going to get enough.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll make you fall.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah!
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just saying that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if you have not figured it out, we have a movie review episode, which we have not done in a while, so I am really excited.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we are doing a movie review.
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on.
[SPEAKER_00]: About Michael.
[SPEAKER_00]: The penalty.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you see my sequence number, vintage sequence number.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because Michael was all about the sequence.
[SPEAKER_00]: All about the sequence.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't know something interesting because you know Michael Michael was a copicated Copicated he's no longer with us was a copicated
[SPEAKER_00]: So you know, I know that people have a lot of different feelings about Michael, I think, so we're going to start off with some disclaimers, okay, so we are children of
[SPEAKER_00]: the 80s, the 90s.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this is the one we was coming up with.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, and this is one Michael, what's Michael?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so we are aware of the abuse allegations, the trial, and all of those things, who you know, we were.
[SPEAKER_00]: We was I mean it was broadcast all over all over the place in the early arts early 2000s those things start to come up I believe in innate late 90s and whatnot Our justice system Did find him not guilty
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, we know our justice system is bunk when we just say that very cleanly, so I'm not saying that, oh, they've always gotten it right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me just say that clearly, but he was actually not found guilty on all of the accounts of child sex abuse allegations.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just want to say that you can all very plainly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, although we know that people that even now there's been I believe more, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: as he has now passed away, and so I will say very clearly that I do believe in believing survivors, but in the case of Michael, I will say that it has been, I will say it's been difficult in that one, I am biased, I'll be on, I'll just go lay down or jump by, I'm biased,
[SPEAKER_00]: because I don't miss a lot of this, but I will be honest in that I'm not watching all of the documentaries and things like that and then a lot of the post commentary and the things that we're coming out was saying like well a lot of those acquisitions were debunked so there's there's been confusion and for me a lot of confusion around a lot of that and of course he has been found not guilty and then there's a lot of questions now with regard to the
[SPEAKER_00]: And the mention's there and just kind of like, oh, like he actually wasn't actually abusing people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it's just been a lot of confusion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, because you know, what you feel about all of this, but I will also link, I'll try to link an article that talks about here.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has been found not guilty.
[SPEAKER_00]: That does not mean that I just insist to get white.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do want to say that clearly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just triggering that you should not listen to this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me set it.
[SPEAKER_03]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: All right.
[SPEAKER_03]: So yeah, I would just say that we work hard not to, not to amplify, not to amplify injustice.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so this is our, this is our best attempt to discern where things are and to kind of live into.
[SPEAKER_03]: the highlights of this movie, what it reflects in terms of its particular cultural moment, the musicianship, the creativity, but this is not an endorsement of a life that we, quite frankly, don't, we just don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I was saying, as a person who's worked with survivors of all kinds of forms of abuse, that when we say belief victims, that means that you do everything
[SPEAKER_03]: that warrants investigation and support and analysis of what their claims are.
[SPEAKER_03]: You do not dismiss them.
[SPEAKER_03]: We actually, you know, believe victims is not me.
[SPEAKER_03]: You take the person that they accuse and then you throw them in prison, like you do a process.
[SPEAKER_03]: You do a process, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: But what we have is a culture in a world that does not even facilitate processes for victims, in which we're most
[SPEAKER_03]: So to the best of my knowledge, I am good conscience.
[SPEAKER_03]: what out to see the Michael movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: To relive parts of my childhood to reflect on the music, to hear the story, but not to endorse behaviors that I quite frankly don't know if they're true or false.
[SPEAKER_03]: So let me invite you to into the enjoyment of this particular episode with us.
[SPEAKER_03]: And let me give you the disclaimer of if it's just talking about Michael Jackson, if you really believe he's an offender
[SPEAKER_03]: then cut us off, y'all, but I would also say, if you haven't seen me yet, and you know we have to cut it and talk about this movie and D-Tip, then you want to cut it off and you want to go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and then you go see it, and
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll get into all that next, but I know it can be one of the things that people have raised critics is that the movie itself does not mention on the nose of really the allegations that we're against him or the trial, and there's some context to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you for raising that because I was just about to bring it in and so yeah so a lot of you know some of the critique has been like oh this is I don't know how are you want to say you know a Disney vacation of Michael and that it didn't really get down to the nitty gritty you know of Michael but actually
[SPEAKER_00]: the movie actually did touch on the child abuse allegations and the trial but they actually Antoine Fuqua and the producers of the micro movie actually had to do $15 million in reshoot to remove
[SPEAKER_00]: the child abuse allegations and trials, sheets, and all of those things, and it was, this is according to Variety, and there's other sources, but it's according to Variety.com.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will put this in the show notes, but that was scrapped because of any mention of the child molestation accusations, because of a clause in a settlement with one of the accusers that
[SPEAKER_00]: in any movie and so they just had to scrap it all together.
[SPEAKER_00]: People talked about Diana Ross and there were scenes that were actually shot of Diana Ross as well, but that also all of those scenes also had to be removed.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were some legality, I believe, issues as to why.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her scenes were not included in the movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I, you know, just wanted to put that out there just for context.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just so that, you know, you all know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, let's get it in.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then I'm putting all that being said, let me grab my glove.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm now putting on my sparkle glove.
[SPEAKER_03]: And let's go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's go, let's go, so the Michael movie I can be, okay, the Michael movie you, you went earlier than I was able to go, okay, this is a let's go movie, but I wanted to go with some colleagues and friends, a larger community of people that went to the movie, but I'll talk a little bit about
[SPEAKER_03]: why you felt like you didn't need to get there when you did.
[SPEAKER_03]: And what the excitement, the build-up, you're thinking about going to see this movie, what did it mean to you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, how was really excited to see Michael?
[SPEAKER_00]: What part of it is that I just, you know, you guys support Black, if you know I'm like, you really got support Black movies on the weekend that it comes out, I knew that Michael's movie would do numbers because
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the most human.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's the most famous human being that walked this earth behind Jesus.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean literally.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's Jesus and Michael Jackson and that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so like that's it's crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how famous Michael Jackson is.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I, so I was okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was supporting him, you know, I was supporting the movie because I was just like, well, you know, the one movie has a problem, you know, and that's just a really
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: the act of going to the movie theater.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't go to the theaters that often these days.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, because of streaming and whatnot, but this was, I feel like the first movie that we've had since Wakanda, franchise really, where we got to dress up if we wanted to, if you were really young.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was like, yeah, I mean, another.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, because you know, experience where we can go and dress up and just enjoy it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that was fun too, and it also helps that I live in Wakanda.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm the other one.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I went to dress it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: It whatnot.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's been fun watching all the commentary and people's clips and reels and tiktoks.
[SPEAKER_00]: And whatnot on social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was looking forward to the social to to seeing them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could believe just because I, I grew up.
[SPEAKER_00]: with Michael Jackson.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we move Walker, we watch that movie about every single day at the school.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this was what I'm feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, Michael was like, feels like his, his, his entertainment, his music, his moves is like in my DNA at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's just how I did my number my dad's thriller.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm, you know, in my kitchen and there's white, you know, white, white dagger with the, or blazer with the hoodie, it's just, it's what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, and so I think that's what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's what it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just had to be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had to be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I had a time when my popcorn and my icy.
[SPEAKER_00]: What about you, Christina?
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me, you know, why did you feel that you
[SPEAKER_03]: I really think we need to save our things that are fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: We are incredibly serious times, and so serious, you know, a lot of people gaslighting and playing our faces, like we literally just had, as we were recording this, we're learning about a Supreme Court decision with major impact.
[SPEAKER_03]: on voting rights and just a slap in the face, absolute disrespect to people who gave their lives for these types of gains that should have always been what it was.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, when you have that as your reality, I'm like, when there's something that comes up, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, let me say something, if the ice cream truck comes down to street in my neighborhood.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm running outside with my ice cream money.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think we have got to lean in to things that are not be shamed out of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's going to run out for the ice cream, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how long are you ice cream?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think that the kids go first.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am a little sad.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look at the, look
[SPEAKER_03]: But all that to say, yeah, I was like, this is going to be really fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going to be fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, it is going to be getting, but in the sense of if you're looking at Michael Jackson, not even as a person, but as like a symbol or like a snapshot into a particular moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I think that it just, it just tapped into like moments of just creativity and joy and just fun and just I'm limited possibility of creativity is what I think he represents.
[SPEAKER_03]: He represents that musically and artistically, but I think you could apply that to any field.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I'm a person who loves the creative arts and I think
[SPEAKER_03]: We're creating about it in the sciences hold hands because they both shape our imagination about what's possible.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's why I wanted to go.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to, I wanted to, and I knew that it was going to be doctorative.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I, you know, let me tell you something.
[SPEAKER_03]: If somebody makes a movie, this will never happen about my life, you know, I would like for it to be fiction.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't, I don't actually want to be a real story.
[SPEAKER_03]: The real story is for the Lord, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, otherwise you could go like, you know how I, you know, get a little bit of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what she learned along.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, I don't know, what happened to you guys?
[SPEAKER_03]: What's going on?
[SPEAKER_03]: So, it was designed to be super entertaining.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was, you know, it was, I knew I had to be there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did dress up.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did have the white armband and the glove, little hat.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm wearing what I wore.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, come on now, I'm wearing my glove.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's all you're gonna get today, but it was it also do that we need to share it community.
[SPEAKER_03]: The movie reminded me a little bit of like a five hearts beat, a five heart beats, which is like yeah, one of my top 10 maybe top five favorite movies in the world is a cult classic.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then if a problem watch it once a week, I really could go out to watch it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like there are moments in this movie that if I get to watch this enough, I'm going to be quoting it like the color purple, like I could really
[SPEAKER_03]: go to town.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, this is going to be some lines.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, moments in this movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's get into like a little just one question about the meeting, because before we go to our break as you as you're reflecting on it, why don't you just start with like one of the major highlights that you left that movie theater with and you're like this moment in this movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not going to forget.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh,
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know what I, you know, it's hard to say it might have, I guess in, it was just this overall, overall feeling about who the legend of who my Michael Jackson was.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I felt leaving the theater.
[SPEAKER_00]: I felt some sadness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like for my nieces in the next generation, who did not know Michael in some ways because it's just, if there's no way to explain, yeah, people don't get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: living person with a comparable, you know, a comparable prowess or just domination, bucket building, and this is pretty, and this is pretty social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is pretty, this is analog, this is pre-social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is when you tower records, oh my goodness, that took me back, other tell records.
[SPEAKER_00]: haven't seen that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to go to the record store to buy the actual record.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the cassette tape.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the CDs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why is this?
[SPEAKER_00]: All of the elements should know.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was no streaming.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, the numbers that he did.
[SPEAKER_00]: He would take me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how I was so confused as a child watching Michael, because I feel like I was every weekend it was something on about Michael somewhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't you know, it's about Michael's house.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the eggs, we are the water, and then it was always something that was Michael and you know, everyone was fixated on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I grew up as a kid, I thought I was going to marry Michael.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that's what I know, that
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, and I think I would say when I reflect on like what's what's set out to me about that movie is to your point.
[SPEAKER_03]: There was a sense of lament about
[SPEAKER_03]: what could have been, if unfettered, and that, you know, and, and again, the sense of like people not really knowing it, like, I don't know if I have a multi-generational group in some ways, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And, oh, yeah, like the 20-somethings were like, okay, it's a for one of them, we're done like, it was his idea to go.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he had done the research, he said, late 20s, and he found Michael for himself.
[SPEAKER_03]: But others are like, oh, okay, and I'm just like, I mean, I know people like Beyonce, I know people like, you know, this is different artists that people really are like, they're the biggest and greatest, and I'm like, oh, no, no, no, what I don't know are as you think is the biggest and greatest, they, they like now issue, that they pale in comparisons.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm just like Jackson.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's odd.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's odd.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so, it's so, it's so, it's so, I guess in some ways, I'm like a sad for the folks that they had new come-up age to, you know, to Michael, you know, and so for me, the phone part of the movie was filling young, you know, I was like, oh, 79, I wasn't even born yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I was like, oh, 80, oh, I was just, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's called for the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was only four and bad came out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just, I was just, I was just, really memories of thriller, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was just, I was just, I was just a little bit bad, but I feel a little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my goodness.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just nothing that compares to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that was really, really cool, really cool.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're gonna first pause take a break and then we're gonna really, and this is when you actually for real for real, if you hadn't seen it, you might really want to turn off now.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we're gonna get into the next involves of this movie and talk about some of these characters and the scenes and just what they what they emphasize and how it just tap us on the shoulder.
[SPEAKER_03]: So hang with us, we'll be right back.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our NAACP Image Award-nominated book, Truth Table, Black Women's Musings on Life, Love, and Liberation, is making waves and shifting culture.
[SPEAKER_01]: I close this book feeling like I had just partaken in a multi-course meal, filled with grace and the courage to carry on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I believe you'll finish this book feeling the same way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Morgan Harper Nichols, Artists in Poet.
[SPEAKER_01]: By Truce Table, Black women's musings on life-loving liberation at our website or wherever books are sold.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we are back at the table talking about the movie Michael, which by the way is part one, about Michael.
[SPEAKER_03]: We weren't that close.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hello.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hello, there's a studio coming.
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's more, and you write there is more, because it ends and you're like, and it ends and ends and ends and ends and ends and ends and ends.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there, there,
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel like it's about, I feel like I thought we had made it to 90, but I'm not totally sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was 80 and a time because bad came on, I think it was 80 and a time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, it was 88.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's definitely pretty all the, remember the time, black and white, you know, I mean, I went to the 90s because I didn't get to know that one.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and you know, let's get into this movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the movie starts with a squarely in the childhood and the childhood home of the Jackson family.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we got, we got Katherine, we got Joe Gary, we got Gary Indiana, we got the kids, minus Janet, because apparently the Jackson did not provide.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a big loss, I'd say, in the movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: She had the time, but you know, give me the full story of, um, I feel like, I mean, they have a very special bond.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, of course, you had a bond with Latoya too.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't see Ruby in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But maybe I'm not, did you see me?
[SPEAKER_00]: I only saw the two.
[SPEAKER_05]: No, okay, no, I did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, that's a good word.
[SPEAKER_00]: But they're very interesting, feel me that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: What'd you go?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, before we all.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's our understanding.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's a very young thing to say, like, I'm not playing along with this if I don't want to.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you know what that's going on though.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's on from a movie standpoint.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, it's kind of like,
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, to have a little girl that would have played Janet just seemed like that you I think you could feel the absence.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let me just say that.
[SPEAKER_03]: You could feel the absence.
[SPEAKER_03]: You could feel it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you could feel the absence.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean that being said, I want to talk a little bit about the character development and the actors.
[SPEAKER_03]: Come on, five, five minutes in.
[SPEAKER_03]: I looked at my husband and said, let me say something.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, at this moment I hear goodnight, goodnight awards.
[SPEAKER_03]: Give me a round of ideas, give me, I mean, I didn't get to make up in the award.
[SPEAKER_03]: Give it to give me a round of applause in Joe Jackson.
[SPEAKER_03]: Carmen, I don't think I'll ask a little to you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, we need to create a new award for him.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it was just, just give it to him.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, play that role, frankly, so, but he played.
[SPEAKER_03]: Give him a sense, give him a sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's it out to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: As you think about the scene Steelers and the acting, like what stands out to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, for move, Jeffar Jackson for show, I mean, come on, come on, look, I said, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on, come on,
[SPEAKER_00]: embodied his uncle, body, that role, give him his things, just give him all the things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you like, it was just, because I was like, I wasn't sure, I'm like, I was like, I was like, I was like, you know, I'm not cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, it's not a carbon copy, you know, but yeah, you didn't like him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the prostitutes when I gave him his, you know, his, the natural nose that he was born with, and he was like, okay, and hearing a voice,
[SPEAKER_00]: the tone, the dance, oh my goodness y'all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, I'm just saying, this is my assumption in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Come on, it's, it's, it's your show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell me, you know, I haven't imagined that Jafar Jackson probably didn't have maybe a traditional uncle nephew relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I mean by that were you simmered at me every weekend or you seen the uncle five times a year or ten times a year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, I mean, because my goal is a big global superstar moving here and moving there and he's in one of my
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, like I think about my family, like really up on the each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: We see each other, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm like, the fact that he was able to embody his uncle like, this is, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's against from unhike, because hearing his voice, his tone, his eye eye, there were times where I felt like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, is that Michael like, and just very much felt like Michael and other?
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, it was just, it was not sparing it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen, the director, the director had mentioned that and who caught that, that Jafar had trained for over two years before he even auditioned for the role.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I was saying what really struck me is bit, you know, so.
[SPEAKER_03]: There are some entertainers that literally have impersonators, so like Elvis and Share and Beyonce or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry
[SPEAKER_03]: This was true, you know, I think of her Angela Bassett when she played Tina Turner.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was not an epitome.
[SPEAKER_03]: Lots of Tina Turner impersonators, she was not an impersonator.
[SPEAKER_03]: She embodied kind of an essence of this woman and brought her before us in ways that were really accessible.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would say, here's capturing was on that level of just extraordinary acting capacity.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: Angela, we don't play about her.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I mean, like, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's, if it's,
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wonder if he's going to be tight cast.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was not only take us at wonder if you can do other words what I mean is because we're going to only see him now as Michael Jackson because he bodied this.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I wonder.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I don't say this, I don't think that he looks like a Jackson.
[SPEAKER_03]: The Jackson's look alike.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is one of those jobs or not.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is a family that just looks alike.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just James.
[SPEAKER_03]: You can spot a Jackson.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I just think that, so for that being said, he looks like the Jackson doesn't look exactly like Michael Jackson.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I do think there's a way for him to move into
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would love to see him do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'd love to see him in another role.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I just thought this guy was amazing to watch.
[SPEAKER_03]: So let's go to, again, I started off at the house where at the very beginning scene, the introduces family to us.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I got to say, I will say this.
[SPEAKER_03]: Jackson, movies, Jackson shows, and we know that Joe Jackson was big in his case, and we know that there was something about the way it was captured in this movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it wasn't gratuitous, it wasn't all the time, but it was enough to, like, I don't know, put you in the face.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I was like, every time every time the character Joe Jackson came
[SPEAKER_03]: You need to get into a body.
[SPEAKER_03]: So when Michael Jackson and I were just so afraid of him, I was like, yeah, we're here, too.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this is a movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was sure of a, I was sure, coming at me, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Coming, coming to Jackson, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, sorry, brother.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, I was like, it was like, you know, a Lawrence Fishbird when he told you, I think I was like, yeah, nobody trust you.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, no.
[SPEAKER_03]: The other things I think I do, though.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, he was just the, I think, especially if you are a person and I don't know this may resonate one of some of our listeners.
[SPEAKER_03]: If you had, so obviously the physical abuse is there, but if you've ever had a parent or a parental figure who you felt like, they could not be pleased.
[SPEAKER_03]: great and not be pleased, like you know, perfect is not good enough for them because it's you and their core issue is the way that something and you trigger something in them.
[SPEAKER_03]: That is what that felt like to me and then you know it's like so I think it was I think that was powerful since me and I hope that people you know when they watch it maybe they can even have I mean it it'll be it'll be it'll be jarring for sure but maybe even some degree of catharsis didn't know like
[SPEAKER_03]: This guy's like a perfect performer and he wasn't good enough for this other guy, but that was that guy's problem.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was Joe's problem.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so likewise, to the person who's struggling with that within their own family system, like, that's their problem.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you did saw like how Michael's life was so shaped by that, you know, the big nose comment.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love a parent referring to their child as having a big nose.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: And he started that complex within Michael.
[SPEAKER_00]: Michael was such a beautiful child, a beautiful man too.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just, oh, it was so sad.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what was interesting to me, what I learned from that movie was a couple of things, but one thing was the Pepsi commercial.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was, I was, maybe two, I don't remember, I was a little, so I didn't know when you think about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't have until 90s, you know, more purpose.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, morning that he had a ball spot, north damage, I mean, and pain got pain since then.
[SPEAKER_00]: And of course, now the algorithm all I see is Michael's stuff on Instagram now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they showed a scene of, you know, his hair, somebody, you know, him on set in the 90s, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or maybe even early 2000s.
[SPEAKER_00]: Good news, wig or weave, you know, fixed and stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And him wincing in pain.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh my goodness, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the pain that endorses the Agnes because of that Pepsi commercial, and then just his own generosity, benevolence and empathy, as he's had for the other burn victims, him going to go visit them, his compassion, and then him donating the settlement or the money that he got from Pepsi, or I forgot exactly how it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: wasn't yet seven figures all to the burn center unit there at I can't remember the name it wasn't Cedar's it was another hospital there and so that was dabble's loose to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not know how extensive it was for joking about it and making light of it but that was not a trifling matter that was not a joking matter.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I talked to a good friend of mine who, you know, so like I'm a couple years older than you and it's a good friend that we both have, who is probably, she's a few years older than me.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we talked about it like based on kind of where we are, we're just in the matter of just years of development.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she was saying how she had a better insight to just how severe it was.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she was, so she said, she was a part of the group that was like, cry, like, it's Michael gonna make it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, I said, you're dead.
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, I remember it happening and I remember it being like this whole emphasis on it.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's why you shouldn't have a Jerry girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Jerry is like, I don't know, I don't know what to tell you more.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have a lot of debt.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, they're formable.
[SPEAKER_03]: I gotta promise you, it's in this day.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I put here in five cents in my hair.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, it's a slable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's not what you're like.
[SPEAKER_03]: Watch out for formable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hold on, this is what happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know if there's a lot of integral because they're going to be in the house.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, it's that's what I mean.
[SPEAKER_03]: I also think the way that they depicted it at, you know, that scene.
[SPEAKER_03]: was powerful with the mom who had been, I mean, it's a lot of different ones you can think about a parent who is in the household with another parent who is so dominant, who is abusive, who is controlling, like what is it that we expect out of the other parent?
[SPEAKER_03]: But in that moment realizing that whether it was, she felt like there was no other way, but passivity in order to make sure everybody was fed and safe.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: What happens when a parent the other pair of weapons with this is what my Yeah, I should have protected you rise.
[SPEAKER_03]: I should have protected you.
[SPEAKER_03]: It wasn't just the protection in that statement from you should have got to say no to that tour in the Pepsi commercial.
[SPEAKER_03]: But it's like a global I should have protected you from the time you are a little boy until now.
[SPEAKER_03]: This has been the trajectory.
[SPEAKER_03]: of you being used and disregarded.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I thought that was powerful at that moment.
[SPEAKER_03]: You had a turn to his back on her.
[SPEAKER_03]: And then in crimes that he says, you know, it was your fault or you did your best.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I just, that particular moment, I thought was also really powerful, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, is this a nobody can stop?
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he said nobody can stop nobody can stop him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody can stop him.
[SPEAKER_03]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wow, well, well, hey, how
[SPEAKER_03]: how powerful of a figure this person was in Michael Jackson's mind.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's a heck of a statement to make.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, like, so it's bigger than life, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we're going to live.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just anyone in the eyes of the guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: The first thing he says to the guy that he has is you have to fire Joseph.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, the manager, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you like that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I forgot his name, John.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: And all I'm going to, and then talking about the, I love the relationship between him and Bill Bray.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe it is security guard.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had no clue.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I was going to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: Father, Father, Father, Father, he's father.
[SPEAKER_00]: I learned from him, did not know about that relationship and just how much of a protector he was and he's seen in through everything from childhood until adulthood.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I came up with, I believe he died before Michael, but maybe early 2000s I want to say so, because Michael died June 25th, 2009, I believe so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was so sad for Michael.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I had a breakdown when Whitney died.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't have you, it was a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: 10 days ago, when anything here comes up, I came to the community on that, and I go, we should have saved with you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I actually think, yeah, we failed her.
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't think we were black people collectively responsible for anything.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm already trying to get this done.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why did you call us to win me?
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like collectively, you should have done so.
[SPEAKER_02]: to help her.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I was to get arrested.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what I was supposed to do, but the point is, I believe it needs to still be here.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's why I fully empathize.
[SPEAKER_03]: I get it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just like, oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_03]: So, um, I think that was a lot of that time too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, that's
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't hold another layer, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in the valley, I was in the town.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was in the back when I was doing pharmaceutical cells, his house was down the street from my doctor's office, and I had to move too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and I was there, it was Friday.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was working in the territory.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I remember going to doctors, it was just buzzing, TMZ broken.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's when TMZ became legitimate to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: When they, they were the first ones to break them, Michael died.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're lucky.
[SPEAKER_00]: They didn't have a lot about nobody dying.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a dark day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do remember that day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the doctors was everywhere was saying, I mean, it was a little, you can see it's house.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: And again, to see the movie, to think about the pain from the Pepsi incident, the Pepsi, you know, the burns, the nerve damage, and then to think about the pain medicine from that point on.
[SPEAKER_03]: They did
[SPEAKER_03]: It just came back on all the way until Michael dies later in life.
[SPEAKER_03]: It also just shed some light on because I think when I learned it, Michael Jackson was addicted to pain killers.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's the important language that would be used.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I thought that Michael Jackson, I didn't even think about that injury.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that it was from just guaranteeing on his body just fatigue from dancing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, you can't believe that too.
[SPEAKER_03]: But his level of physicality is just convertible to someone who's like a professional dance or like ballet, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I just thought maybe he wore down like his knees, his hips or his joints or something.
[SPEAKER_03]: But then I learned later, I mean, back, like, because of this movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: But later I've been hearing, like, oh, no, the painkillers are directly still tied to the incident to happen.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we just thought about, like, this has something he even wanted to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not something you want me to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't even want me to do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know, so that was really Joe's kind of impulse of like I need you to do this for the family.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just one of his injured.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's the one who has a lot of time injury, that leads to this lifetime addiction as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: So it's just really powerful.
[SPEAKER_03]: So from a music standpoint, what I'm curious, what are the musical moments of the movie?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, to your point about the physicality, even Jafar Jackson had to.
[SPEAKER_00]: There were times that he had to know his body and go, ooh, I got to stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that he could avoid injury.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Trying to, oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Trying to embody the dance and the move and everything you had to do, you know, to be Michael Jackson.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's physicality.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, joke.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he could really hurt him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he couldn't even self-push himself to that limit.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't from Gary Indiana who was not professionally trained and he was, he was, he was out dancing the Broadway dancers.
[SPEAKER_03]: He was out singing the Broadway singers.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, just, just the level, I mean, both the, the natural talent obviously perfect pitch.
[SPEAKER_03]: But also he's just obsessive, I would say, obsessive commitment to excellent whatever his craft was.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, an old part.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know to Joe's relentless, you know, you know, push and, you know, abusive ways of pushing, you know, Michael and, you know, his brothers, but even you were I'm just saying,
[SPEAKER_03]: I was curious and I was like, you can see all of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: You said that I talked to a different of my who who kind of mentioned sort of two.
[SPEAKER_03]: She was like, you know, we'd be going to have a philosophical debate about what makes behaviors grow, like what perfects behaviors.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think what people have had, you have to make me me out of your suffering too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Don't get me wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's part of it too.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think, yeah, I was necessary for him to have a parent who a value like discipline and attempts to be
[SPEAKER_03]: Accelerating an opportunity, but I think philosophically, I believe at the end of the day It is grace that makes something grow in the right direction.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think that Michael Jackson I don't an imagination of Michael Jackson being extraordinary and excellent Up the heart from the abuse of his father.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm sure Yeah, yeah, you don't understand the abuse of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do now believe it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: I do not have any assistance on practicing the discipline and I think there's the good part that we can take or that's what I would say But I do not necessarily know from Michael Jackson to be who Michael Jackson Well, it's like the Clark sisters, maybe when we watching that and thinking about their mother being like, okay You got to get these harmonies tight.
[SPEAKER_03]: You got to you know, and I think us figuring out the difference between you know about us I mean like the community
[SPEAKER_03]: about a, you know, a thwartative versus a thwartarian parenting.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, a thwartative parenting can actually send the message of, so it's like, it's clear boundaries with deep, deep love.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think it can actually send the message of safety when it's like, okay, I know what to expect from my parents.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know what structure looks like.
[SPEAKER_03]: I know they're not going to let me do whatever I want to do.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they love me deeply, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And whereas we can think about other models of parenting that are that authoritarian Dom and nearing control whether that's just the withholding love and care or physical abuse, both of those are incredibly detrimental to shaping kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, you know, we can have a whole show to come out about life parenting styles and we understand why so I mean, there was a glimmer of empathy for Joe at one moment for me when he was like, you know, want to be me.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't want to be me, do you?
[SPEAKER_03]: And all the kids were like, yes, we don't want to be you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do you, like, you, like, you, like, you, like, you, like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like, you like,
[SPEAKER_03]: It's very much so alive, but your question for me was about the music and those of all the fiction, so let's dance out to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I, you know what, but I also took away from the film was that it was film, that the, that that was actually actually did make short films.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I never, that's crazy because I watched movie like every day, but I just really didn't put that thing on the edge.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, many videos.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to see my music videos this morning, but I was like, no, this was really my film.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was the time it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: smooth criminal.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, dangerous time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not dangerous.
[SPEAKER_03]: I've never remember the time lack of wine in the technology for the faces more.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is like pre-A I go.
[SPEAKER_03]: This was pretty awesome.
[SPEAKER_03]: That stuff still looks cool right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, you're gonna move it.
[SPEAKER_03]: It came out four years ago, three years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, ten years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you're like, they look so fake.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're gonna look at Michael
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, throughout I'm still scary right now, I'm from the music series that I really enjoy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I love the scene with the gangster, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know, you know
[SPEAKER_00]: What if we try like this?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's like, and by the way, and by the way, and by the way, it's like, and by the way, yeah, I don't know what it's going to be because I don't know what it's going to be.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what it's going to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I don't know what it's going to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's going to be like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: like this, like now I do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Michael, I was like, okay, I got a little pop culture.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, the dancing and I loved the recreation of Thriller, that was cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought, I'm sorry, Thriller still scares me to this day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so scared.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so scared, so I'm so scared.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so scared.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm scared.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so scared.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know we created the other ones cool and then making the connection between the gangsters that he pulled off of the, uh, the mean streets and at that time, South Central, LA before they called it South LA, you know, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyway, um, and we're going to go ahead to live there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not doing the, um, the time now, and I didn't know these things, I'm just saying it's very interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I didn't even appreciate it, but that I appreciated the recreation of like some of his iconic like concerts and I was like, well, mayor's the heir.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was always said I was an heir underneath a shirt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I was like, there would be a failure.
[SPEAKER_00]: There would be a gap in the shirt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, they showed that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like, I was like
[SPEAKER_00]: I just didn't say it's fainting, but where did it go?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they brought us a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought you a bill, and then they brought
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a lot, man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in there, okay, this was a flower walk down there.
[SPEAKER_00]: The culture of creations were really great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, actually it's hard for me to choose.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those were the scenes from me.
[SPEAKER_00]: What about you?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: The scenes or songs that I really jumped out at you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, honestly, those, those, Jaffa Jackson's recreation.
[SPEAKER_03]: was just so spot on every thing all the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember, so one of the people that I went with to this movie was like, did you guys ever go to a concert?
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, absolutely not.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that was a shout out.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was a shout out.
[SPEAKER_03]: I didn't even think that Michael Jackson hit concerts in the United States.
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought you had to live in life with this.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, I was like, well, I would see his concerts when there were tens of thousands of people.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: I saw what he did to Super Bowl, and it was like, oh, my gosh, he's really misuse something for us.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know what I was going to be doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a very good time for most of the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a good time for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a good time for more shows and more shows.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll stay there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely, so I loved, I think I loved just seeing, you know, gosh, that was, I mean, I would say every musical moment was so, was so excellent.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say there was the scene where it's, it's doing like the kind of collage of experience is where he's trying to figure out what the name of the album is going to be.
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right, right
[SPEAKER_03]: I love the process of him figuring it out and I thought to myself how weird it must have been to like his record company when he was like I'm gonna do thriller is gonna be the signature song ever I'm gonna in a video is gonna be a hard video.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't have to be like are you are you for real?
[SPEAKER_03]: But the novel I like creative excellence
[SPEAKER_03]: So he didn't know why they're trying to offer what off the wall and did numbers.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he didn't know for like being a creative phenom.
[SPEAKER_03]: And you know when you like us of not a creativity, you can throw out some wild stuff and people are like,
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't see it, but I understand that you can see stuff that I can't see, you know?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, and I think this was in a musical moment, but it's the moment that Mike Myers is, you know, he's in costume playing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was wild, and I think we're talking about why he decided to play that role.
[SPEAKER_03]: He knew that that was a person who had called MTV and was like, I'm going to pull my hours unless you do this.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he was like, I wanted to play somebody who did the right thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: No.
[SPEAKER_03]: I wanted to tell somebody like, there's just so much mess in the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I wanted to play a guy who was like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_03]: I want to be, like, history will show that when I had to do the right thing, I made the right call.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I wanted to at least play that character because that world, these just see people missing the right call.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we all know that was really great.
[SPEAKER_04]: And it was really great.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was really great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: But also, like that moment, when Michael Jackson is like, I'm not a great artist.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm not a great black artist.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm a great artist.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm had more like musical integrity than maybe some of the white artists who were just happy to be like Cindy Lopper and all those folks They're all there on supermodels late husband.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, yes, and so you have to start that was that was a really cool moment to see because you saw that Michael was a trailblazer And for black artists period I mean why he's being really cute like you know you want to be white you want to be white, you know, are you racially and
[SPEAKER_00]: Did a lie go and truthfully I didn't know I thought you know remember this back when we had urban legends going around Yeah, I said they don't have them anymore, but it was very much telephone back there and I thought I needed to just get I didn't know Was the video I knew we were gonna be the like I didn't know it had consumed this whole body so you know you and you learn a
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm just possible, I don't know all that he did medically.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is possible that he did do some things to try to make, yeah, who was, yeah, to skip that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: It also explained the globs, it explained the slow socks, it explained his attire, because when we think about the way that he dressed, you know what I was saying.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's like, hey, the wings, I mean, everything was, you know, I was like, he can't even see even haircut.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, you know, I look at some of these AIs, but they show like homeboy Michael Jackson, where he's got like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, even if you wanted to, you know, realize that he has, you know, how, how, how injury he was his scalp.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think, you know, he reminded me of was, um, gosh, I actually, you know, chat with both men and just others that we think we know what's going on with them.
[SPEAKER_03]: all you would just people are so harsh and so on kind.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is just not celebrities, but just in our lives.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like we just, we fill in the blanks, sometimes with whatever negativity is now on hearts.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's just a reminder of just, we don't have the facts, just to be slow to speak and to be gracious, because he took such an end community hit.
[SPEAKER_03]: about appearance, and they'll get me wrong, the man did cut off his nose, so I don't get me wrong.
[SPEAKER_03]: You didn't go too far, you know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, you know how they don't get me wrong, but then you don't, and then how creepy it was when you saw him look at the Peter Pan book.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was kind of like, I want Peter's nose, we would like no.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, he's not real.
[SPEAKER_00]: Time to get me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking for Peter in the heart, and I was like, okay, Michael well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, you know, you said there's a lot of debate about whether he's dirt nor dirt divergent, of course he was there.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but you know, yeah, it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, there are some psychological psychologists.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm sure psychologists.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that are debating that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I actually walked away from that movie so the part that really it's to whatever I said is true That's that's not what I was going to tell about the character as to pick let me give that disclaimer from as a clinical standpoint The character as depicted let me say that I looked at the character as depicted it was like all this definitely does read as like spectrum savant
[SPEAKER_03]: And especially when the family has fought or although manipulative and all the things, what he says, nobody's gonna understand you like your family.
[SPEAKER_03]: I actually think he's right about, I think he was right about that if that really happened.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that's accurate because there's so many things that if true, like in his kind of sense, if true and not, you know, sinister, that his behaviors were just so different, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, like, you know, we thought, like, you know,
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, the phone is just looking like, the family is like, how am I going to be looking at the last thing?
[SPEAKER_00]: The snake.
[SPEAKER_03]: That was like, man.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can't go right here.
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't go through the bubbles.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you make up on your bubbles in this house.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so, but at that point, it was like,
[SPEAKER_03]: This is what this is Mike, but this is who he is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I think that, you know, that that just kind of looms into, if you've ever grown up in a family system with a family member, who is very different for whatever reason than in a loving family that is, you know, you see how that family wants to protect that person, how the family can understand that person, in a way that other people can.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I feel like you saw pieces of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: in this depiction.
[SPEAKER_03]: And by the way, it's the family's depiction of him, which is why I think if that's true, that came across really clearly like, oh, he does see the world differently.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's doing that for sure, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, so okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So before we close,
[SPEAKER_00]: Two questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: One, what are your top five, like, Microsoft's?
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi there in the song or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what is your rating for the movie?
[SPEAKER_00]: And why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: My song was in, why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, okay, okay, let me make sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those and look at those.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, my top five Michael songs.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm looking for someone to say they change, but some of that's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some I'll get as it today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me say as it today.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, but they're pretty constant, but lady.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are the lady.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but lady.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't help it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, no, there's a song on that invisible, I do not sing, which is heaven can wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, I can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a, I'm
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can we make sure it is number one?
[SPEAKER_03]: Can we make sure it is?
[SPEAKER_03]: There is.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can we make sure isn't it?
[SPEAKER_03]: But number one type, Michael Jackson's song, and...
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's just stand on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Any others?
[SPEAKER_03]: Any else?
[SPEAKER_03]: I would say...
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, so so some stuff is just super like super funky and so don't stop to get enough is just just funky and it's just is what it is You know that right into lives in there.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all at the funky the funky is I would say, um, after all, so man here
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I have a, I have a, I have a memory of Michael Jackson performing man in the mirror at an award show with like mirrors, like a mirror was up, you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: man in the mirror.
[SPEAKER_03]: I like Michael Jackson just into his introspection bag of like this world is raggedy and what you're going to do about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I value them.
[SPEAKER_03]: Kind of, you know, I like the fucking hits too, but I do like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And of course, like, you know, heal the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is vanity, you know, it's cheesy.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm
[SPEAKER_00]: Michael owns one for the power of students.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also one of the people that is after him.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also one of the people that is after him.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's also one of the people that is after him.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's also one of the people that is after him.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's also one of the people that is after him.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's
[SPEAKER_03]: But honestly, there's there's so many of them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And obviously the Jackson five classics are just a whole other.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: Michael Jackson's voice as a child is just, it was just extraordinary.
[SPEAKER_03]: It was.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was extraordinary there is one that's what brings shows and tears to my eyes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's just got to be there.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, the perfect, the perfect pitch element is just so true.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I saw this clip the other day of an interview.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait.
[SPEAKER_03]: What Joe Jackson is being interviewed and he's talking about his different sons or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: Joe, that's all about the Jackson who's talking about Jack Fabulous.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's passed away.
[SPEAKER_03]: And he said, he's always something off hand.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, well, you know, you know, my friend had a great voice, but you know, I think you know, I felt like your main was a little bit of a singer.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my
[SPEAKER_03]: This person really struggles.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's something they are that struggles for them to be able to see, to see this person.
[SPEAKER_03]: Super sad.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think one thing that does stand out is that as you watch the record producers who obviously you don't want to get paid, make money or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: But you see how Barry Gordy and Quincy Jones and others they become the paternal affirmation.
[SPEAKER_03]: the paternal affirmation that he should be in protection.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it is shout to Lorenz Tate.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a nice surprise.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't expect it to be cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, come on, night, and he's kind of on 90.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was a great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that was a great.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, I'm going to tell you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it's really sad this clock.
[SPEAKER_03]: That would be as gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_03]: That would look, I mean, the neon looks like to me a beautiful woman in her fifties.
[SPEAKER_03]: Really, okay, talk to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: Your friends tell you, babe.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, why are you still stuck in love Jones?
[SPEAKER_03]: It was shocking to me.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's going for a round day.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or for a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: He just said, yeah, he's a boy more so nice than me.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_03]: And yeah, I'm at the place where it's about preventative, preventative, that's right, yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, so writing this movie, one to five stars.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm going to give this movie a solid four stars.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, I'm not going to give it five stars and some, I'm sure they're going to be three star type people and I know I know y'all I did.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think that there were, I do think there were gaps kind of in the, in the seamlessness of this movie, like the storytelling pieces of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, I don't know how long I would have this to be the last Jackson movie I saw wasn't a movie it was like a mini series and so I think I think the mini series allows for like character development and pacing in a way that this movie would not allow for
[SPEAKER_03]: But I give it a strong floor when I tell you I'm going to watch it again.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to watch it several times.
[SPEAKER_03]: If it's possible that as I watch it several times, I might throw a little bit more increments on that floor.
[SPEAKER_03]: You might go up to like four and a half.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I got.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll say you as the music the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'll say you on the music is the 10 and the 10 and the 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's on the concert for you on the A.
[SPEAKER_00]: It felt like I was, you know, because I never been on my concerts there.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the 10 down again.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you watch it in regular theater?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm X.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, regular regular I didn't I max around sound and you know I'm open to the top of the movies.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it was I almost did for a date
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, I didn't do all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't do all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I felt like this was a movie I needed to watch in the movie theater, so I did do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would, yeah, you did not see it for the musicality.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was going with the four out of five, because some of the writing, the pacing as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the movie could have been a three hour movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just, for some reason, there's this trend of a lot of movies being a longer movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, well, I could have been a three hour.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you can be a three hour.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I just almost didn't be, I'm almost going to want more character development, typically, you know, I didn't even go jump, I'm not, I'm not saying they did, but yeah, I try to agree with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: We need you to see a lot about the brothers, the brothers were almost like,
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, almost like a conflation.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were not individual characters.
[SPEAKER_00]: This individualized.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that would have been nice to, you know, some people so like, you're making decided to stay with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, not with us or whatever.
[SPEAKER_03]: But besides that, you didn't really get to see, you know, you know, Marlin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_03]: They were elective, you know, and the father talked about them that way, Joe Jackson did too, you know.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, the note, again, no reference to Janet, no reference to Ruby.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, and I don't know the legality of that in my mind, I think it's one thing to not be able to depict someone.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's another thing to not even have a line to say, like, make sure you get your sisters.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we'll say it was one of the managers.
[SPEAKER_03]: Your likeness depicted, but not even like a reference to the, that was the child.
[SPEAKER_03]: We believe it.
[SPEAKER_03]: that you did with it too.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: All of it just saying that.
[SPEAKER_03]: So the title gives this movie four stars, four stars, the silver and glittery, live my glove.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay, four stars.
[SPEAKER_03]: So if you haven't seen it, go check it out and we would love to hear people's reaction.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll give it to us for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let us know your thoughts.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, thanks all for sending us to take it with us.
[SPEAKER_03]: Listen, you know what I just realized we were show that talks about theology.
[SPEAKER_03]: One thing we did not mention to Kim and he.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, they did not mention the reference to Michael's religious identity and his mother's religious identity in the movie.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that a reference?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's a scene when Michael was supposed to despair.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, he would have these moments with like ice cream or popcorn with his mom with can't burn.
[SPEAKER_03]: And there's a scene where he's like feeling all kinds of terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know because
[SPEAKER_03]: is real terrible, not usually.
[SPEAKER_03]: And his mother says to him, Michael, Michael, you were born different than others.
[SPEAKER_03]: You were born with a bright light in you.
[SPEAKER_03]: And your whole position is lecture light shine.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that was kind of a nod, you know, that the family's your whole life is.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so that was kind of a nod to that piece.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the more I think cover this, the more the things that Michael Jackson historians know is that Michael Jackson actually would wear costume
[SPEAKER_03]: And to kind of fulfill kind of the joe of witness, I mean, yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when I said it, he actually came to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: He actually got saved two weeks before he passed away, Rodney, according to Rodney Jerkins.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He actually did the sinner's prayer, actually before he died two weeks before.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, so interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really didn't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I, I, I did forget that weapon out one thing about me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I'd be forgetting movie details now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw the movie just the other day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't see all that.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was trying to got that mess.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I forgot about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember it now, but I forgot about it.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, she goes in like, you know, Jesus says, like, you're like, shine, but she, which I was talking about, the Jehovah part.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was like, oh, the Holy Witnesses, it's a reminder that the Jehovah Witness family dynamics.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was super fast thing you can really close it out now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know what we were going with me, you know, but not thank you so much for taking to see that the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is fine because we haven't done a movie really in some time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so thank you my sister for I was nice to walk down memory lane, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Really really was nice to just go back down memory lane.
[SPEAKER_00]: So y'all, that was well, you got thoughts about.
[SPEAKER_00]: the movie, Michael Jackson and you know, or Michael, I'm sorry, and just this episode about this movie review of Michael.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, you can share your thoughts with us on Instagram, friends, or Facebook at truthtable or email us your thoughts and ask truthtable at gmail.com black women
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[SPEAKER_00]: True Stable's audio producer is Joshua Heave, our video producer is Dale Bradford,
[SPEAKER_00]: and true-stable executive producers on and host our community and Christina will see you soon on the next true-stable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye y'all!