[SPEAKER_02]: Hey friends, welcome back to part of the mass.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm your host, Courtney Defeo, and have a big announcement for you today.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then we have amazing guests.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have Sissy, Goff, and David Thomas, back to talk about their book capable, which is how to teach your kids the strength, skills, and strategies to build resilience.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, please, we all want and need more capable kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we're gonna talk all about that today, but first, my announcement is very bittersweet, but my time,
[SPEAKER_02]: at part of the mass as your host is coming to a close and I'm so sad about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know this is catching you by surprise, but I've been praying and thinking about it actually for three years.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I took the role over from Cynthia Yanoff, who was the original host and found her and creator of part of the mass with the team at Christian parenting, I knew it would be a season.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just didn't know how long it felt so sure that God was inviting me into something special.
[SPEAKER_02]: that I would get to be a part of this and get to encourage millions of parents over the last three years.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I wasn't sure when the clothes date would be.
[SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, I thought it would be at the end of Larsen's senior year.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it turns out it's going to be at the beginning.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just wanted to be so free for her senior year, but also it just felt sure from God.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I have no scoop.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you all see announcements like someone's leaving the pulpit or leaving this and you're like, what's the real scoop?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, someone said the other
[SPEAKER_02]: our light should be private investigators.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am like an internet sleuth guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can find the dirt.
[SPEAKER_02]: But there is no dirt other than I just like to go where God is calling me and I felt so invited in to be a part of this for three years and I feel like it's my time to pass the mic.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's the good news guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is a new host.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to tell you today so you got to come back this month.
[SPEAKER_02]: You'll find out at the end of the month.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will have her on.
[SPEAKER_02]: at the very last episode of the month, but you're going to be so excited.
[SPEAKER_02]: God brought her into the fall and she's going to be perfect for the job.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I can't wait for you to meet her.
[SPEAKER_02]: But more about the month, as I looked at my final month, hosted you guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to have on not only dear friends, but people that I think I should put in front of you one more time just to say, hey, there are great resources out there in addition to part of the mess.
[SPEAKER_02]: The first is Sissy and David today.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then on the 14th, I'm going to have my buddy, Jeannie Cynion.
[SPEAKER_02]: who were the mom set free and many others.
[SPEAKER_02]: And she's going to talk about just how we can rely on the Holy Spirit as our guide and just as our partner in crime for parenting that he's all we need.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then May 21st, my mentor actually meant to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm mentoring Megan Jen's.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's going to come on and interview me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to get into the details about why the season, why I'm leaving, where I feel God is leading me.
[SPEAKER_02]: And kind of just transition faces when it's just not very clear, but you know, God is calling you into something different and can be very daunting and very exciting at the same time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're going to talk all about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you'll get more scoop there and then the very last episode of the month, you're going to meet your new host.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so part of the mess is going nowhere.
[SPEAKER_02]: It will continue to be an amazing resource for parents that want kids to know love and follow Jesus.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm really excited about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll talk more in the 21st of how much I love you guys and how much I love this community because I'll cry if I talk about it now.
[SPEAKER_02]: So let me introduce you to if you don't know since he got off in David Thomas have been a long time over 50 years together.
[SPEAKER_02]: to in total, but 30 years working at Daystar, counseling and Nashville, Tennessee, but they have incredible experience.
[SPEAKER_02]: They see families in and out of their counseling and therapist office all day long.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they have such wisdom.
[SPEAKER_02]: Y'all know, I would guess 90% of you've already followed them and love the work that they do.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we're going to talk about a really important topic today is called Capable, that's their new book.
[SPEAKER_02]: And as you think about your kids launching into middle school or high school or
[SPEAKER_02]: of college or even younger adulthood.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like we want them to be capable.
[SPEAKER_02]: We want them to soar beyond our own home and to be able to do things without us telling them what to do every step of the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so some of us need a little kick in the pants to say we got to let go sooner.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're going to talk about today just why it helps?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like why it's a benefit to let them
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, fail and try and learn new things without us hovering over all the time speaking from a coin hover This is really important and I think Ella would tell you that it times I did everything for her and she did not feel capable But I've watched that girl soar and realize that she is incredibly capable and it's been a really special thing to watch She's gone off to college so
[SPEAKER_02]: Here we go with my friends Sissy and David and also guys if you have any questions about my departure feel free to message me or email me and then again make sure you return on May 21st as I'm going to be sharing a much longer story of what led me to this decision but love you guys here is one of the best Sissy and David.
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to part of the best David and Sissy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me tell you right out of the gate folks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go to YouTube.
[SPEAKER_02]: David, you always have a strong vest game on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Sissy's always got a strong shirt game.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really good, guys.
[SPEAKER_02]: You shop at any certain stores.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, when you love to you came Carthie in Nashville.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: David, who's your stylist?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's really nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're wife.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's still like home.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so glad it.
[SPEAKER_02]: of her lover.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, here's my question.
[SPEAKER_02]: We could go so many different directions, but we'll get into it with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I need you to heart and back to the little David Thomas and the little Sissy Gough.
[SPEAKER_02]: Name a time you felt capable when you were little and you're like, I'm basically superman, superwoman.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a good question Zee and Conan I'm quickly for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I grew up in a small town and the neighbor
[SPEAKER_00]: a couple of houses down was a delightful older woman who went to our church and she would on occasion forget her key and lock herself at the house and she would have me a quarter and a doctor pepper and climb through a window and that's what he had up the stairs on lock the house and she did, I mean, I could make about 75 cents a week, it happened kind of and it was the best gig because we did not keep soft drinks at our house on the regular at the time this house
[SPEAKER_00]: Making some cash, getting a drink, getting a great beverage in the afternoon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, incredible gig.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a win win.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I started breaking into homes early.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's hilarious.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the first thing that comes to my mind really when I think about like that, feeling of being capable, I do have a negative experience of capability, which I'll share first and I'll share a positive.
[SPEAKER_03]: The negative was, I guess, this terrible y'all.
[SPEAKER_03]: My mom, I do where to meet, Lung was a pushover.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I remember where I was standing in the yard when I thought, if I push my mom hard enough, I can get whatever I want.
[SPEAKER_03]: Terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: I bet I was eight.
[SPEAKER_03]: Maybe young girl.
[SPEAKER_03]: Terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's not the right kind of capability.
[SPEAKER_03]: This is terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the, the time I like remember kind of an exhilarating capable feeling was riding my bike around the neighborhood with neighborhood kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, which is literally just was talking to a mom this morning who said she's trying to allow her 10 year old son to do that to ride two streets over and she said I know we need to and I'm so fearful.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I mean, I don't know what's fearful, but I don't know what possessed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: There.
[SPEAKER_02]: What they should be fearful of is falling because here's what happened to my orange bicycle.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go in downhill, orange bicycle, get a blaster holding in the middle.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like pinkies are holding the handles.
[SPEAKER_02]: get a blaster to hang in the middle.
[SPEAKER_02]: High school bus comes by and everything in me is like, I'm a loser.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a loser.
[SPEAKER_02]: I buy the dust so hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm talking like D batteries rolling down the hill.
[SPEAKER_02]: My forehead.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, oh, I literally could see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know exactly what child saw was that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I did.
[SPEAKER_02]: feel right and told that moment that I was pretty awesome and such is life and we want to prepare kids for both.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right, that's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, well let's jump into the idea of being capable because I know I'm always watching y'all have the pulse on so many kids because of your work at day star and I just thank you, you kind of talked to us about anxiety like it was bubbling up so often at your practice and so tell us why this topic, why now and just your heart behind
[SPEAKER_02]: couple weeks April 20s.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we're here sitting in May celebrating that book coming out, but tell us a little bit behind the why.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, we, I mean, thankfully have been doing this work now for 30 plus years, which officially means we're old, but we have seen a lot of swings with kids over the years.
[SPEAKER_03]: As you said, and one of the things we're seeing now more than ever before is
[SPEAKER_03]: this risk of women's in kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: So not only is there more anxiety than we've ever seen more depression and we're rescuing on the part of parents, which we can talk about that too.
[SPEAKER_03]: But all of it's combined to where we're hearing more stories than we've ever heard of kids doing things like I'm talking to girls who will say things like, I don't know how to reach out and make a new friend.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's awkward.
[SPEAKER_03]: Why would I invite someone?
[SPEAKER_03]: Why would I text someone new?
[SPEAKER_03]: We're hearing
[SPEAKER_03]: where is when we were all growing up, we were chopping at the bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's no way I could have talked to me out of getting that part.
[SPEAKER_03]: The day I turned 16.
[SPEAKER_03]: And just, I mean, asking a girl to home, coming, going to home, coming.
[SPEAKER_03]: So many different things of all ages that we're watching more and more kids.
[SPEAKER_03]: not only hang back from but melt down as a result over and so we feel like it we have been doing a lot of work retroactively with counseling and trying to talk about anxiety and depression and Dave and I are ready to do some things proactively and let's sure these kids up with some scaffolding on the front end to help them know that they're capable to handle all that life's can bring.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Love it.
[SPEAKER_02]: David talked to that idea of how this does link with anxiety.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the more capable kids that you see are having less anxiety.
[SPEAKER_02]: I imagine.
[SPEAKER_02]: So is that part of your thinking there back.
[SPEAKER_00]: My dear Franks on anxiety and the working definition that she came up with is anxiety is an overestimation of the situation and an underestimation of myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the problem of the situation feels too big.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel too small and if kids continue to live into that definition.
[SPEAKER_00]: It feeds and fuels the anxiety.
[SPEAKER_00]: If we as parents allow kids to live into that definition, it feeds and fuels the anxiety.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they feel less and less capable in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other concern that we carry in that, Courtney with the stats being as high as they are, we're seeing more and more kids define themselves by their struggle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then developing themselves by what's most true about who they are.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_00]: We push back against any kid or adolescent who would describe themselves as an anxious kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, you're an amazing kid, anxiety may be a part of your story.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not what defines you as a person.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the more we live into that definition, the more true that feels about the core of who we are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we absolutely want to be pushing against that as a world of people who
[SPEAKER_00]: who loved and care about kids and adolescents.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want you to think about what you would say to the and you probably did at some point the younger version of me that was raising Ella and now mine is at college and she's doing great guys we did it.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I did both of your girls are amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do think their personalities were Larson would jump off a building two day and have no problems with it.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, yeah, I mean, just can't wash sports.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anything crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she literally could move to Europe next weekend.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know if that's a second child thing or my realizing to let go sooner.
[SPEAKER_02]: Ella just came out more cautious and I don't think she's fearful.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's just going to pump the brakes and be like, that sounds scary.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I, as a parent, I guess my question is, with that personality of a child, when do you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there was times I would literally shove her off the dock and she'd go, oh, you're right.
[SPEAKER_02]: That wasn't bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thanks so much for making me do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like now, she's looking at a college going, like, mom, I really did love dance.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why didn't you have me keep dancing?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, I'm
[SPEAKER_02]: Because you freaked out, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's so hard to know like when they're wanting you to push on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so talk to the parent of that kid that's like, I want them to be capable, but they are crying by my side a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: And how can I keep pushing them?
[SPEAKER_02]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, the mom likes me a few years ago.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we have been saying for a while in parenting seminars in conversations what are two things you're doing for your kids right now that they can do for themselves and what are two things you're doing for your kids that they can almost do for themselves and we both really love the work of Susan David who talks about the importance she's talking about emotional agility and she talks about the importance of discomfort and David quotes her a lot to say discomfort is the price of
[SPEAKER_00]: what is it discomfort is the price of it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we would add a third question which David talks about in the book of where is a context for your kids to experience discomfort right now.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, if they can't swim, we're not going to throw them in the deep end, but what can we be doing?
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you stop filling their water bottle?
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you let her their bike two streets over?
[SPEAKER_03]: Can you let them if they're teeny unload the bottom rack of the dishwasher?
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, what can we do just
[SPEAKER_03]: in little ways to give kids experience because kids learn capability back experience, not because we're teaching them that they are.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, since you one thing I will and Ella would be fine with me sharing all of this, but she has had in her head because of that scenario with her sister that she's the quote, weaker sister.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's a lot of play things that come at play that she had to foot surgery.
[SPEAKER_02]: She could never do things that politically that Larson could do.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a lot of comparison there.
[SPEAKER_02]: But what I've seen her realize this first year of college is she is capable and the confidence that is rising and her to go like part of it was like how I treated her and parented but part of it was like she just canceled herself out like I'm not worthy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now she's doing it and I'm seeing what exactly you're talking about her book that her confidence is rising.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's knowing she's stronger and it's been a really sweet thing to say that
[SPEAKER_02]: area we push it and I think I texted you this weekend because it was such an aha for me, but I learned to drive the boat at the lake the same weekend Ella finally learned to wake board and she had been watching her sister wake surf for years and years and years and we finally got everybody out of the boat and it was just me and her sister and her and we went out and we stayed out there until she did it and she was so proud of herself and she's like yeah I'm seven years past when my little sister did it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I did it and I was so proud to drive the boat.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was telling you, you can do hard things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, woo, woo, yay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Courtney, way to go.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, so awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to echo everything you're writing about because it is really hard as a parent to watch.
[SPEAKER_02]: So your child believe that they're not capable because I did coddle more or I did.
[SPEAKER_02]: Step in too soon, and so I just want to echo everything you're saying that it's worth it to be uncomfortable as a parent, especially if you're a helicopter kind of Human, it's worth it to watch them struggle and fall because what comes on the other side of it is just really beautiful so I'm
[SPEAKER_02]: Walking test to money on both ends.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's talk about balance between going too far and being like you don't have a parent go live your life and let them just walk into a subway by themselves and then the other balance, which I'll probably have names for these, but I would say the other opposite is controlling and not letting them move a muscle without you.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so what are the dangers of those extremes and is that where you're talking about to kind of get us more in the middle there?
[SPEAKER_00]: we would argue it's easy to swing to either or both of those against depending on the moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Courtney, my first thought when you asked that question and I'd love your thoughts is we talking the book about this equation of support and challenge and how it's equal parts of both.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not 37D, it's not 28, it's 50, 50.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would argue the longer Sissy and I do this work.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think every one of us's parents leans a little farther in one direction or the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: My wife isn't any gram to, she is like an Olympic gold medalist in support.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not so great in support.
[SPEAKER_00]: One, I'm pretty awesome with challenge.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we now get both of those sides.
[SPEAKER_00]: together but what our kids needed was both of us to be both like they don't need to experience support from their mom and child for me and so I was always borrowing I mean I remember moments of sitting on the edge of my kids beds and thinking how long would my wife sit here because I was really said they're like 90 seconds you know and she would sit for 30 minutes and so what would you like for you to sit and listen and then for her borrowing for me like what would it look like to Sissy's great pointy man to go to
[SPEAKER_00]: my kids experience more discomfort because it feels awful on the inside, you know, any grandchild feel everybody else is feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she would, she would absorb their fear and nothing in her wanted to intuitively move toward child.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think the starting point is figuring out which side do you lean more toward and what would it like to develop more of the other side so that you can offer equal parts to all kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I loved that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So see what would you say to that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I would add.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love what David said.
[SPEAKER_03]: And
[SPEAKER_03]: The only thing I would add is I think as parents what probably the biggest preventative in letting them move toward those things is anxiety for the parent themselves and yeah we talk so much about how the best gift you can give your kids is to do your own work and that certainly feels true and Courtney, I mean, I think the three of us could talk about this for the changes that we've seen from a social media standpoint of what parents are hearing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I read an article yesterday that now there is all this, all these influencers who are, see, I'm not going to remember the exact name of it, but it's not prenatal, all the prenatal care, but it's pre conception care that you're supposed to be giving for kids before they're even born or before they're even conceived.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I mean, I read it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And
[SPEAKER_03]: Thankfully, this article was saying this is too much.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're not only making parents anxious, we're making pre-parents anxious.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_03]: That kind of pressure feels like a carries throughout parenthood anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the loudest voices, the voices that are out there the most, are saying things like the empathetic name their feelings help them learn to do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And not saying that sometimes when we say that sounds really hard, buddy, they say yes it is
[SPEAKER_03]: need some boundaries to name, but they need help navigating, working through the feelings.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so we, I had a mom recently who used the phrase with me, I feel like parents today have paralysis by analysis.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's so true.
[SPEAKER_03]: There's just too much coming at them.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so for them to be able to separate out, like, what does my intuition tell me?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to trust myself more than I'm going to trust the experts, except for hopefully the three of us get to weigh in, maybe.
[SPEAKER_03]: But we are even saying to parents, pick a few, pick two to three people you trust, whose voice is not only make you feel grace for yourself, but the hopeful rather than get anxious.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just too much.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think as I look during this counseling session with you, as I look inside.
[SPEAKER_02]: I, and y'all have known this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been interviewing you for years.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if I want to get it right, I want, and part of it is a little bit selfish to be like, I want them to get to the end of their life and be like, my mom nailed it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not possible.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I had the same kid and would pray.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's a big piece of like Lord.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's scared about camp, but I think it's the best for her.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm feeling sure that we should make her go.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would go and she would ball.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I would cry all the way up the hill.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then she would go, it was awesome.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like, oh my gosh, I literally lost sleep for five days.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you go at 19.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, I wish you would have made me stay in dance.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, well, crap.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I was trying to turn.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that just reminding parents is like, you're not going to get it all right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're doing the best you can.
[SPEAKER_02]: But knowing your tendencies is huge to know that like,
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm quick to jump in so I have to watch it.
[SPEAKER_02]: David, I'm so glad you said that about your wife because one is that person to go like, I think you're freaking out.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think she could take her bike down there like he's the one that brings the sanity to my life, which is really really helpful.
[SPEAKER_02]: But let's talk about a kid.
[SPEAKER_02]: Think of one kid and now you can't tell me their name.
[SPEAKER_02]: But talk about a child and we'll do different ages.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's start with a little one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Think of someone and maybe your nephew's to see that you've seen this concept work of like you've seen their parents.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let them be capable and teach them little by little and what the benefit you're seeing on the other side of that child could be someone you can't slow.
[SPEAKER_02]: It could be one of your kids or your nephews.
[SPEAKER_02]: But whoever wants to start,
[SPEAKER_02]: with that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's such a good question.
[SPEAKER_03]: I, so for those listeners who don't know me, I have a much younger sister, 16 years younger.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I'll have a seven and next week, four year old nephew, the cutest.
[SPEAKER_03]: And they're pretty cute.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I would say those two guys are two of the most capable boys at those ages.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have ever known in my life.
[SPEAKER_03]: And Kathleen and Erin do a phenomenal job of really letting them be.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I have my mom who was highly anxious her voice in my head and you know, boys, I mean, I know boys because it's praise the Lord of her David Thomas speak for decades about boys.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so I know they need to run and climb and jump and explore.
[SPEAKER_03]: and it makes me a nervous wreck.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I think had I not known David's voice, had I not known the way boys are wired, do I not understand how important those things are?
[SPEAKER_03]: I would be hell-ocoptering them all the time, get down, stop, don't hit me, don't jump off of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, I mean, I could be constantly doing that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I have to, I really when I'm with them for an extended period of time, I talked to myself all the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like,
[SPEAKER_03]: don't say no here.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let them do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, they need to be doing those things.
[SPEAKER_03]: But I mean as simple as it is, those acts of exploring the world and being on the scooter inside and going around the island 500 times way too fast.
[SPEAKER_03]: When I know he's going to hit the dog or knock over his brother and I just have to zip it because you're definitely not doing it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I want to follow their lead.
[SPEAKER_03]: So any grandparents that are listening, you're in my shoes probably a lot.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's so good to let them explore the world in those ways and have that curiosity and adventurousness because the adventurousness is tied into capabilities certainly.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're so cute.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you're not saying like let them actually swing from the chandelier into a pool of glass.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like there's no there's there's like a lane of like, well, this is actually going to kill you, but there's also they are going to fall.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and that's Mary, you said they're going to go around, but I do, I have seen the, I guess, the cost of that and some little boys that they're afraid to make a move and afraid to get their clothes dirty.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I love that you brought up here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, if you's David, what would you say of just the benefit and someone you've seen in your life?
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I was thinking about sissy and have some dear friends who both live in my neighborhood and they both have daughters who are close to age and they will periodically host a lemonade stand and they'll text out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we must just say, hey, if you're on a walk today, just letting you know the girls are at it again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could not love these two girls more and every lemonade stand expands.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they've added artwork.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've added bracelet.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's like a bizarre, you know, you walk by and it's like this little bizarre, just purchase all these goods and wares and total sucker for a kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Same lemonade stand because.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love all of what comes within that experience of sitting outside in the hide and having to really pay attention to supply and demand and do our money and you're like all the parts and pieces and both sets of girls have parents who are entrepreneurs.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're not just purchasing all the stuff and then letting them make all the money.
[SPEAKER_00]: They create an invoice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I spent this much on
[SPEAKER_00]: girls, I think about them sometimes in a match in them and they're 20s and 30s and think, yeah, telling what they'll be doing in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's no telling how capable they will feel doing it because they had this practice from, they launched this in the late preschool years and they are now in mid-Elementary.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I can't even imagine what I might get to purchase by the time they're both 12.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's just no telling, all is gonna be a part of this experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think about all the benefit that,
[SPEAKER_00]: kids experience when they have opportunities.
[SPEAKER_00]: I work with a boy who launched a pet sitting business and went around his neighborhood and put up signs everywhere and he was at it long enough that
[SPEAKER_00]: this kid was making in the thousands in the summer as a fifth grader.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: More than me.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so all the opportunity that I think exists.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now let's acknowledge the reality at the end of this and saying that's extra work.
[SPEAKER_00]: When we have to part of offering oversight and helping with the stuff, but we would argue there is so much good learning happening in that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, to your great point, you're not hovering over
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm basically project managing this whole experience, but yeah, I'm going to do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm going to add because we have this really was friend who started something called Light in my backs, all these of practical things that kids can do to experience capability.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, that's every one of your Light in my backs.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what they're doing in our book.
[SPEAKER_03]: We did quote that friend in our book.
[SPEAKER_03]: Oh, my gosh, y'all are sweet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, no, you're amazing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And we have to your great question.
[SPEAKER_03]: We have put 100 capable building exercises in the book for little, middle, olders and for all ages of kids so that hands-on they can be experiencing what this looks like.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK, that is perfect segue because I'm like, we're running out of time.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I do think it's for every age.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's a slew of moms that have teenagers that are like, well, crap.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, where was this book, you know, when they were in preschool.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what is we and just reminding us moms that it's not too late.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there are just as little as eliminates stand.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are little bit of things we can do, whether it's a college application process, do picking your, where you're going to live next year.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm already trying to jump in and be like, I'm buying this condo.
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone's going to live here.
[SPEAKER_02]: like zip it, let the child figure out where she's going to live.
[SPEAKER_02]: So encourage that season of parent that thinks like, I've messed it all up as too late.
[SPEAKER_03]: No, no, I sat with a mom and daughter not long ago and it was right around home coming time and this girl had struggled some in friendships and but she ended up being the one to host all the girls to come over to get ready before homecoming and
[SPEAKER_03]: her mom wanted her to invite a couple of girls who were in the position she had been who felt a little on the frenzy for inches.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so she was in my office saying, this is so awkward.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's so awkward.
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, they love that word.
[SPEAKER_03]: So awkward.
[SPEAKER_03]: My mom wants me to do that.
[SPEAKER_03]: And I said, what up?
[SPEAKER_03]: We invite your mom in and let's all three talk about it for a little bit.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she got Terry when her mom came in and greet Terry and said, I don't understand why you're making me do this.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's not going to be fun.
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's going to be awkward.
[SPEAKER_03]: And this really was mom said, honey, my job.
[SPEAKER_03]: is to not have my job is not to make things more fun and comfortable for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: My job is to help you care about other people and to develop your own capability.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's what we're gonna do in this.
[SPEAKER_03]: And she's in high school.
[SPEAKER_03]: It is never too late if you feel like you haven't been in those spaces to figure out.
[SPEAKER_03]: How can I let them practice discomfort step into hard things and to remind them how incredibly capable they are because they're going to have to be it's going to be required of them just like you know from launching one, you know, it is going to be required and and that's the best preparation they can have is for us to give them opportunity.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me say this as we close and I'll probably write you five letters on this one day, but thank you for helping me parent my kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know I'm not, they're not dying, but I'm towards the end of just their teenage years.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I cannot imagine where I would be without just the subtle lessons to sit in your audience and your podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've really felt so equipped and didn't get it perfect, but really did have a lot of fun.
[SPEAKER_02]: resources and I really, I'm just immensely thankful for both of you and helping me raise my kiddos to be capable adults.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you both.
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for being a dear friend to ask for so many years.
[SPEAKER_03]: Love you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's do it again.
[SPEAKER_03]: Talk soon.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope you enjoyed this episode of Part in the Mass, as always, we've got more encouragement and resources over at ChristianParenting.org.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you can also stay connected with us on social media at Part in the Mass.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you liked this episode, I'd love for you to do two things, press follow on whatever podcast platform you love, and also be sure to leave a rating so other parents can find this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember, you're never alone in this beautiful Mass of Parenting.