[SPEAKER_02]: If your relationship has ever felt off, right when life is changing, this episode is for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because transitions, whether they're good or bad, is often the times that couples struggle the most.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what makes this confusing is sometimes there's nothing wrong.
[SPEAKER_02]: You just had a baby, you just got a promotion, you just moved to a new city, yet you find yourself arguing more than you ever had.
[SPEAKER_01]: And most couples, they think, hey, is something wrong with us, but what we've discovered through working with thousands of couples is that this dynamic is incredibly common.
[SPEAKER_02]: In this episode, we are going to be talking all about why transitions can feel and be so hard for relationships.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's actually happening underneath the surface.
[SPEAKER_02]: and the patterns that couples fall into that create those fractures.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because once you understand these dynamics, then everything just starts to make sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello all and welcome to the relationship innovation podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am Tara Kerwin and my name is Ej Kerwin and we are extremely excited about this episode because of the fact that this is something that we point out to couples over and over and over again.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is the fact that when you go through transitions when there's things that change in your life.
[SPEAKER_01]: oftentimes these are the moments that create a lot of separation between couples and they end up coming to people like us not long after or maybe too long after.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well you know it's interesting so we
[SPEAKER_02]: had this transition podcast plan for like a week or so.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we didn't even put tune two together.
[SPEAKER_02]: Today we got the new keys to our new counseling center we're moving into.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, EJ, how crazy is this?
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going through like a significant transition.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're about to do two parts of our transition podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: and I will say like we had a successful moment before this started because there was a moment where terror was asking to get something for the new building and ordinarily like I would go into what you'll learn about in this episode some old habits of mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: She would react to it probably because of her own stuff and then we would have a conflict or something like so silly and it was, you know, it would often be triggered by us going through a transition.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so here's what's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: We know better now how to manage transition.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this episode is built on.
[SPEAKER_02]: trust that you can get through it, because we just rocked it this morning.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're totally right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting just to say something here is that transitions don't just change life circumstances, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They change relationship dynamic because we're both functioning, you know, in a new place or in a new set of rules or a new environment.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like, again, just getting those counseling center keys today and I know that we're not like moving moving for a couple of weeks, but I'm like full of anxiety like my head is like, okay, I want to decorate that room and what rug do I want to go there and do we need curtains hung up and like I'm just like spinning because when our life goes through transition I get.
[SPEAKER_02]: massive anxiety but I used to not know what it was and now I can name it and identify it and can I make it go away?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I have an anxious personality transitions are one of the biggest things I get anxious around but now EG knows how to support me in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm sitting here right now and I feel anxious because what I really want to do is go deckway and get everything all done right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I do is I buckle down into my own sense of security and I want to not be reactive.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that it's oil and water with us in these moments.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're going to show you today first why this happens, because the first episode, it's going to be a two-part series, is going to be defining like what transitions are.
[SPEAKER_01]: why they're hard, how they actually fracture your relationship, and then we're going to give you a nice key reframe right at the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: So stay tuned for that, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so transition EJ talked to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the transition?
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you describe it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so...
[SPEAKER_01]: A transition is any shift that disrupts routine, it might change your identity, or maybe roles change as well, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's any any transformation in your life where there's a significant change.
[SPEAKER_02]: or not even significant.
[SPEAKER_02]: What if you're just going on a week-long vacation that disrupts issues?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to like not say significant.
[SPEAKER_02]: It could be anything that disrupts routine.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it could even be like three days you get really sick.
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're off.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I know that my I get super anxious when I'm sick and I don't have my usual routine or it could be new mom, role, new parent, role, new dad, role.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like how you said subtle things that transitions like because we used to get into a lot of conflict when we would be separated for like two or three days or if one of us would go out of town for a week and then just coming back together, that transition which seems like just like the most normal thing in the world would create obstacles for us.
[SPEAKER_02]: So transitions could be small, minor, a daily thing, a weekly thing or they could be big ones as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Transitions can be really positive in nature, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: They can be having a new child.
[SPEAKER_01]: They can be getting married.
[SPEAKER_01]: They could be getting a promotion.
[SPEAKER_01]: They could be moving into a new house.
[SPEAKER_01]: They could be, and then we see this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Moving into a new company building.
[SPEAKER_01]: with New Caltsley, but we also see this one a ton is it can be retirement, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is golden time where people are like so excited.
[SPEAKER_01]: They finally don't have to work and all of a sudden they're struggling with their partner.
[SPEAKER_01]: So transitions can be positive.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's also challenging transitions, of course, the biggest one I'm thinking of is just loss, loss of a loved one, loss of a pet, any type of loss that creates uncomfortable feelings and grief and unexpected or expected it doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: Physical or mental illness, that can be something that can be a big transition for a couple to go through, if somebody gets really sick, somebody begins to struggle with some sort of mental illness.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to say the next one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's a big one.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've met about this one all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Menopause transition.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a long transition.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm telling you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, and like, my third year of it, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, menopause and or right after you have your baby right, I had a terrible postpartum.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, what do you mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: A hormonal transition.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, hormonal transitions too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then another one is, again, it's kind of tied into like a different stage of life and you will see that a lot of these transitions have sort of stage of life, you know, relations to it and that would be empty nest when suddenly, you know, two people have been raising children together for literally two decades, some of the times it's been a vast majority of their relationship and then all of a sudden it's just the two of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to think about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now we still have six more years.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: That will be a morning for today.
[SPEAKER_02]: That I can't even think about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But why are transitions hard?
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to help you understand why it's hard because people like oh transitions, like changing, like this is just what happens, but they're hard because, well, the first one you lose that sense of predictability.
[SPEAKER_02]: So even if you're like sick for a day, right, or you have
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because we, I mean, we are very much creatures that have it, you know, you can, you could tell Terran, I like, can you lay out the, your day and what it looks like on a daily basis, either a weekday or a weekend, I could tell you pretty closely what every single day is going to look like.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when there's a transition in there, when suddenly
[SPEAKER_01]: roles change, identity change, it all gets, forget the upside down.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could also throw in there like say there's a hormonal shift, the way in which the person goes through that day becomes unpredictable.
[SPEAKER_01]: The person terror was a decade and a half ago, and how she moves for her day is much less predictable now.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it used to be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can create a lot of anxiety and anxiety can show up differently for all of us and I'm just thinking like last week I was driving home from Anaheim and I was supposed to come home on a Monday But like the car breaks went out so we had to have go take it to the dealership
[SPEAKER_02]: So I couldn't drive home until Tuesday, well, then Tuesday, I like have to miss some of my coaching sessions, then I have like 40 emails to catch up on, like just that one day, I had so much anxiety coming into my next work day.
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's another big thing that a transition can bring on an identity shift, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Tara going from being a single woman with no kids early on in our relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Her identity was much different when 18 months later she became a step parent.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: A parent to two babies, a mother and not someone who was working every day.
[SPEAKER_01]: A huge
[SPEAKER_01]: create pull-a-parts in relationship as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it manifests us like internal uncertainty or it can.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I remember thinking before, like the transition happened, the twins were there and we all lived together.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like, oh my God, my heart loves all these people and the more the myereer and I just thought I would be the same person because my heart is big and I love children and I love children.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love you and then when it all happened and it wasn't what I thought I had this massive internal shift like what's happening and I was so uncertain I thought I was going to be this kind of stepmom and this kind of mom and yeah so internal uncertainty can happen and you don't even expect it to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm kind of going through one of those right now where I've been working at this camp on the East Coast for almost 20 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: I find that I resigned this year.
[SPEAKER_01]: I no longer have that identity as this guy who goes to camp during the summer and leads this community and taps into kind of this more outdoorsy portion of myself.
[SPEAKER_01]: that my identity is shifting greatly and because we're being mindful about it, hopefully it's going to be just a little less bumpy.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, another like really complicated byproduct of a transition is it can activate attachment dynamics within your relationship, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the sort of classic attachment dynamics that we talk a lot about that we see a lot,
[SPEAKER_01]: is the pursuer and a voider dynamically.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this can look like one person being uncomfortable with that change, or both people being uncomfortable with it, and the pursuer really needing connection, and needing things from the other partner to support them in the transition.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other person, this is me, is that in a time of transition,
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, like this whole transition I'm going through and my losing my sort of camp identity is that I began to find myself doing things to cultivate the aspects of me that were a camp but I was doing it without sort of telling Tara and I still haven't told me.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got annoyed, did I've talked about the gardening and stuff like that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean so like but normally I wouldn't and maybe Terras like so used to me keeping things inside myself you know that like right now I'm really striving to let her know I'm trying to not
[SPEAKER_01]: go into that because because the pursuer of void and dynamic then is like if she's needing connection in this time of transition, and I'm naturally going inward, it creates tension between the two of us.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it really comes from the right transitions, or kind of out of our controls, so a loss of controls, and then our nervous system is like hijacked,
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, try to gain some sense of control, and that's why the attachment patterns can get activated during transitions, whether it's smaller.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it lines up really well also with this next thing that is a byproduct of why transitions are so hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: is that we all have, I think this is the most important.
[SPEAKER_01]: We all have different coping mechanisms, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We all have different ways that we act react when we're out of our comfort zone.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want everything to be done.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to dot all the eyes and cross all the teas.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I can be like, I don't want to be in a place of uncomfortable for two weeks and like on-doneness.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just me and what about you?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's weird, like, this is like, it's not weird.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably like, if it's just very typical, like, I just sort of want to pretend like it's just the same as it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: If I am feeling something uncomfortable or I'm noticing that the transition is difficult for the two of us, I want to sort of pretend everything's okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, not you, you just like, and like assume it's all going to sort of work itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, yeah, fingers crossed, guess what you guys, it doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that one's like so important because what it creates is the transition becomes a fracture.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I'm veering one way.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a misalignment within the relationship.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm coping in one way.
[SPEAKER_01]: She's coping in the other and I'm like, hey, why don't you just cope in my way?
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's thinking the same thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, why don't you just cope in my way and then there in what I said before?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and that I think this is really important because I think our negative core beliefs that we have
[SPEAKER_02]: programed in ourselves from early age now.
[SPEAKER_02]: They start to be like, wow, he must not think this is important as I do, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And we start to like really get disconnected and like even lose our sense of values together.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, oh, he must not care as much as I do.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I must not mean as much to him, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we could just assume and get into all these different other types of meaning that actually aren't true.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because what you'll normally see and when especially when we're coaching or doing therapy with couples in transitions as they both feel the same way they feel alone in it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they want if you'll connect it, but they think the other person doesn't really want to connect with them because the way of coping is so different.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just looks different, that feeling is the same.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what brings people often to us after a transition, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is they've gone through the transition.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of these dynamics we're talking about have happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: They start to feel separate, and then there's some very common fractures that are a result of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So transitions are happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have different ways of coping.
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't feel connected.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bam, what's going to happen?
[SPEAKER_02]: We are depleted.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are exhausted.
[SPEAKER_02]: We are ambivalent.
[SPEAKER_02]: Do I even want this relationship work?
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't do this anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why am I doing all the work in this?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm telling you, it can lead to energy depletion, and that's exactly what it looks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you're depleted, what do you become more reactive?
[SPEAKER_01]: You go offline in your central nervous system.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't stay regulated together.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's more conflict.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then, and then you start creating these dynamics now that reinforce that feeling and it feels exacerbating.
[SPEAKER_02]: And guess what?
[SPEAKER_02]: We get the couples when they're in that exacerbated mode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I am done.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to do this anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they don't even realize it was behavioral patterns reinforced after transitions because they didn't have the skills here that people skills To know how to adapt to that transition and again two therapists here that had no idea who now ten years later Open up a counseling center because of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, and just to throw in another really big transition that we didn't say at the beginning is the transition to a blended family boom.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's it's so incredible like that we you know we did it and we've talked to like other podcasters who have podcast just about blended families is it like you just think like it's just gonna work itself out.
[SPEAKER_01]: We love each other.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, we're just gonna, the more the merrier, baby.
[SPEAKER_01]: So couples, they go into a transition, they're not mindful about it, they have some of these, you know, byproducts of it, and then the fractures, first one is way more conflict.
[SPEAKER_02]: Agitation, conflict, tension.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, you're arguing about things that aren't even related to the transition.
[SPEAKER_02]: because of the loss of control is usually what it stems from, but we don't get to that part of it, but we just react.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when there's a lot of conflict, people begin to emotionally distance themselves from one another.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when people emotionally distance themselves from one another, they have like a severed sense of belonging.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it feels awful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you feel alone.
[SPEAKER_01]: You feel unsupported.
[SPEAKER_01]: You feel unseen.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a huge thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that's a core value.
[SPEAKER_01]: Negative core value that we run into so often with couples around this is he doesn't, she doesn't see me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Can I just share an example of that just today?
[SPEAKER_02]: Just like right before our podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I want to order these like little thermometer covers that have the key on them just to like, you know, make sure like, you know, there's people not turning our thermostats down to 60 because right, it's like in Arizona, especially like electric bills can be really high.
[SPEAKER_02]: And normally like, E.J.
[SPEAKER_02]: would be like, ah, you don't need that across like an extra $20.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, that's, that's, and he was like, honey, if that's going to help your anxiety.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, yes, it wouldn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: It felt so, so I felt so seen.
[SPEAKER_02]: So thank you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just from an air conditioner freaking plastic cover for $12.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it meant the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: You did actually, you did a good job validating in that moment because you said, oh, thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: That makes me feel so good.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I did.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was so proud.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, I did the right thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I didn't even have to like, you know, wait, knuckle my way through it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, so those fractures happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then there's communication breakdown.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it's like, from the littlest things to like, right, I don't know, something little in an argument becomes, it feels huge.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's not, what is it that it's not about the nail kind of video if you guys haven't seen that you have to reach out.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll give you that link.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hilarious.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think what happens that the the the significant fracture that is really just destructive to the relationship is you've gone through a transition, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Both of your lives are fundamentally different in some way, and you create new fractured systems, where you begin to live more and more parallel to one another, not interactive, not supported,
[SPEAKER_01]: not seen and what happens then, intimacy diminishes, appreciation, diminishes, non-sexual affection diminishes.
[SPEAKER_01]: They all go away and then it leads back to a podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: We had a couple weeks ago which is you start to just feel like you're just roommates, you're just like, you know, roommates that don't even get along great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was going to say this is one of the reasons why we do the relationship timeline with couples because couples come in and they're so fueled by reactivity that they don't even recognize the subtle shifts and fractures after transitions that then just keep reinforcing themselves and get bigger and more generalized.
[SPEAKER_02]: But here's the key takeaway.
[SPEAKER_02]: Transitions can restructure relationships, they don't have to break them, and that is going to be our part two, we're super excited for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And nothing is wrong if you are struggling after a transition, you just weren't ready for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, it's very predictable that you would be having these struggles right now, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: So our hope with this podcast today is if there has been something that just felt like really,
[SPEAKER_01]: off to your relationship, and that's why you, you know, typed in that search and you found our podcast, so you've been listening a while that you can be like, oh, this has to do with the way we navigate transitions.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now you know that, so come on back next week and listen to part two where we're going to talk about how you get through transition.
[SPEAKER_02]: How you build the skills here?
[SPEAKER_01]: In a much healthier way.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I do want to say this, it's not that we're bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we don't know how to do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It skills on how to be really aware and intentional around transitions.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we recognize that and we're so grateful that we're able to get through these transitions easier now and then hopefully help our listeners get better at being aware and navigating transitions that is our whole goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, when I ask all of you a favor out there, if you've enjoyed this podcast today, if you've enjoyed other podcasts, we've put out there, please follow us, hit that subscribe button, give us a review, rate our podcast, share it with one of your friends because we all know, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: We know somebody who's in a relationship who needs these tips, they need to build these skills, so go ahead and share us and we'd really appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you all so much for listening, as always, take care of yourself, take care of each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye-bye.