[SPEAKER_02]: Today, we're going to talk about what was probably one of the best Marvel television shows and finale's they've ever had.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about Daredevil born against season two.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, so I'm Kyle, he's Robby.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a podcast called Friends From Work.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's get in with our first impressions.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're just finding this podcast, we like to start way zoomed out and then we'll slowly zoom in as the episode goes along.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have so many thoughts.
[SPEAKER_02]: I went live on YouTube last night for an hour after the finale, Rob, I haven't talked to you about it at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was absolutely spectacular.
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... one of the best things they've ever made it's the highest rated marvel television finale or episode i think period on i'm db at this point oh i big my big take away um... is that it felt so
[SPEAKER_02]: rewarding and tied together in the first season, which we like Daredevil born again season one.
[SPEAKER_02]: We liked it, but it really felt kind of segmented.
[SPEAKER_02]: There was the Hector Allis stuff, there was the mu stuff, and there was kind of like this third final act between Fisk and Matt.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it felt kind of like, here we are here, and now we're going here, and now we're going here.
[SPEAKER_02]: This felt like they paid off everything they've been working towards for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like they set up
[SPEAKER_02]: Heather and Muse and you get a little bit of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: They set up right that Hawkeburg is kind of a douche and then you get kind of follow up on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: They set up that all these side characters that Cherry made another appearance obviously for it to come full circle with Matthew as Matthew taking down Wilson and not as much Daredevil taking down Kingpin.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, they come full circle on Jessica Jones and it made sense why she was there and the, uh, the secretary or whoever the governor comes back full circle.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I thought the baby video hit like crack just a perfect time to play the last baby video and have that kind of come to me full circle and and be tied up.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I really feel like they landed the plane on all these things and all the threads they had
[SPEAKER_02]: made one nice sweater, I guess, excuse my analogy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I did come together and none of them felt really wasted to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think, I mean, we talked last week about how they were setting it up to have.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, they could have, and a lot of ways did just do the human drama piece, uh, uh, a lot of, look, he sees him one finale with less action.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, the first half of the episode was that was that, uh, and it was great.
[SPEAKER_00]: And man, I, I think that in that sense, they, they not only delivered on
[SPEAKER_00]: the like the the promise of the last episode, but I think yeah, they landed the plan on all of the the like
[SPEAKER_00]: anti-vigilante like safer streets, court stuff that they've been setting up with Kirsten, like the Matt courtroom stuff, and the finale was so fun to watch, and it was like some of the best Charlie Cox.
[SPEAKER_02]: My favorite thus far in the courtroom.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just as she didn't actually shouting at each other, as it was kind of going off the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it was like so a few good men.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I thought, I mean, even just him walking in the door and like before he even reached his council table, uh, as lodging objections, and then the him and Heather tension is crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: like three and post reveal that he's their devil because there's kind of some cool tension early on when okay she's on the stand and he's having the interviewer and then you get this look from her after he reveals himself to be daredouble yeah where it's kind of making sense for her now but it's also like I mean I don't want to get too far into this because we're we're at the big picture level but I mean based on that line she's reading from her book
[SPEAKER_00]: She also, she hasn't, she has to know a little bit, you know, like even if she doesn't know she knows something, but yeah, like I thought all of that was handled so well, and I want to talk about a more in detail here in a bit, but then on the flip side of that, the action that we did get was, I mean, we got a kingpin hallway fight.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dude, just, okay, so people on Instagram last night talked about how him saying boo was very much like Darth Vader in, in Rogue One, that fine hallway fight.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, that's one of the greatest things you've ever seen in cinematic history.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I go that far, but to go back and forth between Daredevil plowing down one hallway, just murdering people.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the guy that he breaks his back over the wall is just,
[SPEAKER_02]: unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it's flashing to Daredevil and Jessica Jones doing their hallway fight and like all these parallels.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like at the very end of both tire and the door is both cracked half open for both of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: So good not to mention it just looked so cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: There were gunshots going off on Daredevil side and so the lighting of like the flashing in the background while they're doing it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Unbelievable.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have so much to get into.
[SPEAKER_02]: Holy cow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I think in general, they just, I think they landed it so well in terms of an entertaining finale.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think the biggest win of the whole thing to me felt like the, and I don't know if this is controversial or not.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the Matt character piece, like that thematically, I thought is what was handled
[SPEAKER_00]: the best and I think you know which is the most important thing uh uh uh uh for a deritable show that you get a deritable correctly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are my two first impressions uh that was my second one.
[SPEAKER_02]: The fact that it comes full circle to Matt giving
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just straight up different.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's one thing I appreciate.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you go back and watch Netflix season three, which might still be the best season of Daredevil that ever made, when you go back and watch that though, Matt is the one who has given up on the system.
[SPEAKER_02]: He is Jade and flirts with the idea of killing Kingpin because the court system isn't working.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the fact that in this season, they kind of flipped that on its head.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that Matt has been resolute in that we're not going to cross this line.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even all the way up to the very end that he's trying to stop the citizens.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he could easily just walk away and it wouldn't be his fault.
[SPEAKER_02]: That fish was murdered by a bunch of citizens.
[SPEAKER_02]: but he is the one fighting to stop and give him grace to keep him alive.
[SPEAKER_02]: The fact that Matt never wavered in that is already unique.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's one thing I love.
[SPEAKER_02]: The second thing is to take it full circle, you know, the first season of Daredevil is so much about Matt seeing Father Lansom after every fight and really wrestling with how his faith plays a role in this and what role God has and what role grace has in this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So to have it kind of come full circle, we've talked about this with Thor Love and Thunder that at the very end it's not a fight It's not a showdown between the two of them.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's actually the opposite.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like this is so beyond Fixing via us punching each other right that the only thing I can do is give you grace and then and then Wilson saying Now you can't give that to me I thought was genuinely moving and so all the questions I had about
[SPEAKER_02]: Remember last week, I talked about how Matt hadn't had a lot of screen time in that way, and like his character was different for the whole season, but wasn't like moving a lot throughout the season.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the fact that we got all this time of him aggressively taking him down in the courtroom, then obviously the fighting as their devil, but then the saving at the end, kind of about the whole thing full circle for him as a character.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and, you know, I mean,
[SPEAKER_00]: playing into, which they're, they're explicitly leaning into his faith here like you're saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a part of that also is that like in order to both save the city and save the city by taking down fish, he voluntarily sacrifices himself, you know, by outing himself in the courtroom.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there are kind of layers to like he could have
[SPEAKER_00]: not done that and found a way, I mean, you know, like they already had the, I guess like the attempted murder charge on Fisk that the mayor could have run with regardless, but I think that part of what Matt wanted to accomplish was not just
[SPEAKER_00]: taking him down again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there was this level of like we are both, like we've done that already.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, he's been to prison several times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now it has to be something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, where we have to kind of both take ourselves out of the game and that I think added a lot more power to like that final conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it also, it was just nice because
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like he took the leverage that Fisk thought that he had there in the end and turned it against him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like you weren't quite sure how that was gonna play out, but I think it was both like a fun, it was a fun twist in the moment, but it was also, I think, like thematically consistent and I thought satisfying.
[SPEAKER_00]: And as we'll talk about it in a second,
[SPEAKER_00]: there are a lot of different kind of fun things that they're matching up from the comics that I thought they handled really well and kind of worked in very naturally.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I thought it was both satisfying on its own terms, but it also did a lot of other things really well.
[SPEAKER_00]: That, again, is someone that's enjoyed a lot of the
[SPEAKER_00]: 2000 to now.
[SPEAKER_00]: They worked in like a ton of fun business brew bakers at our ski stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know the cliffhanger ending sort of promises a lot more of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying to decide how to pace myself for today's episode because so obviously the reveal is a giant first impression such a crazy powerful moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to get into that in a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then during friendly feedback, I do want to talk about specifically how that was handled and then during the MCU greater discussion part, we got to talk about kind of what this means
[SPEAKER_02]: a reflection episode that we can really get into where they go from here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not just how what does it mean, but like how can they, so I'm trying to face myself, um, on the last first impression front, I thought the review was so powerful too, not just, uh,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be really interesting because we've only had Matt kind of hiding his identity for five years, six years.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you said, there are things we can talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the build up to that, the way that Kingpin knew what he was kind of doing and saying, like, this is a mistake.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the way Matt kind of called his bluff and almost outsmart him because of what you're saying that he knew he had to take himself off the table, too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Karen.
[SPEAKER_02]: So here's a little bit of redemption.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like as someone who said I've never been totally in love with Karen, I thought her acting too Matt doing that and realizing what that meant was very powerful.
[SPEAKER_02]: I also loved seeing a little shot of Heather Kirsten buck and Powell all kind of being like
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then they all had their own little different reaction, which I love that in superhero movies.
[SPEAKER_02]: The identity is revealed.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love seeing the reaction, because I think to myself that this was real, what the heck would I be thinking?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then when he throws the walking stick against the wall and catches it again, to kind of move immediately, that he actually is.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I thought I thought also that reveal was just ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you brought up the comics.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, let's tell people about panel bound comics and then let's come back with some friendly feedback.
[SPEAKER_02]: What do you got from me, the panel bound comics, Rob?
[SPEAKER_00]: Man, well, per usual by the end of a Daredevil season, I feel like they've sold out of plenty, but there are still a couple of super relevant things there.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look for the first volume of the bendas run, which I actually recommended in our newsletter a couple weeks ago,
[SPEAKER_00]: And also the first volume of the brew baker run, which is called Daredevil and or sorry devil and cell block D, it's one of the kind of content high points of the of the modern Daredevil stuff and brew baker is is one of those kind of prestige writers that doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: really miss.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle and I talked about his Captain America, when her soldier story a couple months ago, but that, you know, one of the fun things about the Daredevil comics, so we've talked about is each, each rider really since Bendus has played this game of of leaving Daredevil in a like an impossible situation at the end of the run, or at least putting the rider
[SPEAKER_00]: in an impossible situation where they have to figure out what to do with the character now.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, Ben this has Daredevil's identity come out and his run and then sort of leaves him in jail.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's the last scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Brubaker picks that up and runs with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then leaves him in a different spot that we can talk about later if it comes up.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, this is playing a lot into that stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And those are are really, really great modern comics, great intros to comics period.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can find both of those on panel bound comics if you are curious.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, and those are the kind of paperback.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're not, you're not having to drop something crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you go there, don't forget use our promo code friends from work
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very happy right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: One more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please give me one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Woo!
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm over God.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go easy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Go back to the disposal.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So some friendly feedback.
[SPEAKER_02]: What works with this episode and I guess season a little bit and what didn't work?
[SPEAKER_02]: I have so many things that did work.
[SPEAKER_02]: We talked about the big first impression things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to just give a couple little shoutouts here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Shoutout Cole North.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we circle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: This character was starting to turn a few episodes ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I remember all the way back the last year when you were like, this is so weird because Cole North in the comics is not this kind of character.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: And to see him question things.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then eventually lead to the best gun headbutt in history, straight to Powell's face was very satisfying and fulfilling and then shout out to Powell because I actually, I thought about this last night, I talked about this on the Instagram live in the YouTube live.
[SPEAKER_02]: that that kind of didn't incredible job because just straight up I hated him all the way to the end and like he never wavered.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just he was truly awful.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Fisk is awful, but he was just like awful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so he did his job.
[SPEAKER_02]: So shout out Powell too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, shout out that Jessica Jones came back and that it wasn't just a one episode thing, shout out to one of the coolest white tiger reveals that they just quickly slid that in and they have a fighting looking like a tiger like the queen off the wall thing was really cool to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't overly done.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't like
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, she made some crazy last heroic stand.
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't like she called a bunch of animals to come help her.
[SPEAKER_02]: But just that, like in the middle of the hallway, if I, you also can see this girl go, she's just like off the wall and she's beating the guy off the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought that was cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: Cheerworthy moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought the fake bulls I think.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was about to say that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Was it cheerworthy moment?
[SPEAKER_02]: Putting that all together.
[SPEAKER_02]: My wife was like, wait, because she thought at first that was bulls I, so she's like, yeah, bulls I see her.
[SPEAKER_02]: She loves bulls I for some reason.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, and then, and then it's actually the fake out.
[SPEAKER_02]: and he's still here doing the right thing or maybe not the right thing but the helpful thing at the moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have so many we can touch it all these in a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think let's kind of finish here shout out to the BB thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I said, I think that that was a perfect time to bring the BB thing and the Daniel thing full circle to have Daniel be in that video.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then lastly, I think it's a really appropriate ending because even though Fisk in a way is getting
[SPEAKER_02]: off a little bit easier than you would think like he's he's literally killing people.
[SPEAKER_02]: The more I thought about it, I'm like, well, first of all, he could probably argue some form of self defense because they were rushing him.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like it's it's a mob rushing him.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yes, it is murder, but you know, he could probably pull some strings there.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then secondly,
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, to get off a little bit easier.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then also, like, you know, he talked about how without Vanessa now love is his prison.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of ruined his life that he doesn't have her.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I thought, you know, that last scene, yes, he's on a beach and that seems really great for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's awful.
[SPEAKER_02]: They made the point of earlier he said, like, he hates it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Memory hates the sand between his toes and like he can't not be in New York doing things.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for this guy to just be like relegated to hanging out on a beach without his
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that is a prison to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's awful for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I thought that was appropriate ending.
[SPEAKER_02]: That was a rapid fire.
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are all some things that worked for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of want to start where you ended.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a really good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you put him in prison and you put him in a situation where he automatically...
[SPEAKER_00]: he has strings to start pulling.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't like it, but it's a little bit more familiar territory for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like he, it's kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: He can't not do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like even if you put him, I mean, that was the thing that was so magnificent about season three is it starts out and you're like, how is he going to come back from this?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you see the pacing of it and it's so believable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the sweet little burn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like even when everybody is against him, he's gonna, he finds things.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got like however much dirt on people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think that Matt knows that, that you just put him back in prison and eventually you're gonna wind up in a similar spot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or at a minimum, people are gonna get hurt because of what Fisk tries to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think you have to get him out of here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, that's also exactly the way that the Zarski devil's reign event ends.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that was true there as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they did a good job of adapting a lot of that, but the end is basically Fisk just he leaves it behind.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they were kind of channeling that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think they did a good job of setting it up ahead of time too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I was curious about like there was a part of me that thought, okay, he's rejecting this deal and I guess you're supposed to think that and he's going out of the hallway and yeah, he's he's murdering people.
[SPEAKER_00]: So at that point I did assume the deal was off the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I was curious from not from Matt's perspective, but like from the AG's perspective, from the governor's like, what is Fisk's leverage in that negotiation at that point?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they just, because Natalie, ostensibly at the start, they're trying to prevent some kind of violent explosion, but then that happens.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know why they would even keep that deal, even if Matt wants it, like why would the government keep that deal open?
[SPEAKER_02]: But for a lack of a better word, I think we just kind of said it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You may not believe it fully, but the head cannon is that, like I said, one, I think he could legitimately argue self-defense, like he doesn't, like he says open the door, but they are clearly beating down the door already at that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're attacking him too.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that's one argument.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you've already seen that he can corrupt the courts and all these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it's that unbelievable to say that if he had another trial, he could find a way to argue self defense and kind of manipulate his way out of any heavy charges.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder if the attorney general just kind of understands that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like what you said, what Matt understands, which is that this has now been years, like a decade of this guy, no matter where we put him, ruining things.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, when you first meet him, that's a different thing, but then he goes to jail, but even in jail manipulates things, then he kind of gets out on house arrest, and that doesn't work either, kind of manipulates that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And now he's mayor, and that doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not saying you have to believe it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not trying to argue you into it, but I think the head cannon would be that.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, they just know, this isn't going to work a different way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Or you kill him.
[SPEAKER_02]: Easy on the other option, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, that I guess it's, uh, but I hear you on that, though.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it unfairness, it's kind of like what the French did with Napoleon, I guess.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, like when someone's got that much of a following and can, because that's the other thing, like we saw all the people that were rising up on behalf of
[SPEAKER_00]: like the the anti-fisk movement, like the the Daredevil photo.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that there are also a decent amount of people in the city or we're supposed to believe that do believe Fisk is done the right thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so maybe it is like if we have this big trial here, it's just going to it's going to like entrench this level of division where if you can just pull them out entirely,
[SPEAKER_00]: then you can actually maybe start to move forward and get past it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that the final fight scene is something that I kind of already want to watch that whole sequence again because I thought the back and forth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And seeing Jessica there, I think, was really satisfying.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that seeing
[SPEAKER_00]: seeing that in prison with Powell and North was like, I mean, there are so many places that they can go with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know if that means that we're going to have more of Powell and season three.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's sort of like,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a nice, like Matt was willing to put himself in the same position as these guys that have hated him and like murdered people and did it willingly.
[SPEAKER_00]: But,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think actually the way prison is such a perfect ending for any character that you want to sideline and not have to answer for like think about Vulture right like right prisons perfect because you could argue whenever doomsday happens and whatever whatever the fall out of that is no one's going to be asking Where's Matthew?
[SPEAKER_02]: Why is any helping with this?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because he's in prison, but as soon as you are ready to tell a new story with them, you can write some way that he gets out of prison and same with North and same with Powell.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like if you never want to write another story about them, if Marvel comes in and Kevin says, that was a great story.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just end it there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Then you can just end it.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're in prison for life.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you're like, hey, this cold North character would be kind of fun to have out.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's some way to break him out.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's kind of like the perfect, you know, cake and
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that he's in there with North specifically, because that's one of the relationships that that ship does a great job developing through his entire run.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like Cole North is introduced in the very first arc, which that one arc is one of my favorite double stories ever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's introduced as, like I've said before, he's not crooked ever like he is here.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of the opposite.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's almost the
[SPEAKER_00]: like he's hated by the other cops because he is a stickler for for process and and like keeping things like upright ethically.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so he goes after Daredevil because he views Daredevil as it's not that he thinks he's a bad guy necessarily initially he's he's hunting him for Like a murder charge, but then eventually it's just no like you're operating outside the law And that's enough and so I'm going to bring you down because we have a system and things but then
[SPEAKER_00]: for a variety of reasons they wind up having to work closer and closer together and then you see how their relationship changes and evolves.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I like the idea of those two guys being in prison together and probably the only guys that would really see eye to eye out of everybody in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that that sets up the phone relationship.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I mean, which we haven't talked about yet, but the ending with Jessica and the Luke reveal so stuff all kinds of things that we did, I almost thought that there was going to be, and I'm glad that there wasn't because it would have been too much, but like I've said before, like Luke becomes mayor in the aftermath of Devil's Rain in the comics.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, I will note that the version of Luke that that kind of comes out of that event has the beard and everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, so even the character design, they seem to be echoing that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that's intentional or not, but I, I thought that that was,
[SPEAKER_00]: like the exact right amount of of, of Luke Cage to, to drop in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And today was outfighting and he was eventually replaced, I guess, by this bullseye.
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, new role for him.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I guess Luke was to answer our question last week.
[SPEAKER_02]: He was doing some somewhat shady CIA stuff, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Understanding.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I guess so, but like we said, also like bullsize the perfect candidate for them, I was curious what was the purpose this season of Jessica's power glitches.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, there isn't one.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do wonder if that's laying the groundwork for next year or something else that the working on with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it must be.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because otherwise I don't think you include that for any reason.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then she didn't lose any of it during the final fight as far as I can tell.
[SPEAKER_02]: She's just normal.
[SPEAKER_02]: By the way, which is totally fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not every single thing that you introduce has to be wrapped.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, that's not a, that doesn't make or break the story.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you don't know why that's a thing yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: But no, if it's one of those things, you're like, if it's used with it, if we weren't having a season three.
[SPEAKER_02]: If they never come back to it, then it's a little bit of a thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, why did you do that?
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think they'll come back to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: How about the, the Heather news mask moment?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I,
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, okay, I don't have like a hot take on it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, I don't like love it that they're doing what we kind of predicted, and I don't like hate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I just, it's a thing, that's another one of those things.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's kind of see how that circles back around in season three.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then.
[SPEAKER_02]: if it's a really cool like well executed story I think I'll always look back on this season going oh that's when they started and that's really cool um which is obviously what they're doing right like this is not the end of a character my I think my favorite shot from the whole situation was
[SPEAKER_02]: when she put the mask on, what she sees in the mirror now is like a really happy, like, horrible version of herself, um, which is really twisted, but it's kind of like her embracing that, also her doing the throat punch, um, is kind of embracing that too.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, and then buck, we didn't really get a lot of resolution on if he is dead or not.
[SPEAKER_02]: It seemed like he was dying.
[SPEAKER_02]: But same like what I said with Powell and North, I think if they come back and say, yeah, he died, then you'll be like, oh, that makes total sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you say, like, oh, he survived it, they got him to a hospital.
[SPEAKER_02]: If they want to have more stories, then you'll be like, okay, that's fine, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they kind of left it open and did, yeah, I did think that that was interesting that we didn't see a final shot of, of him either in prison or, or not, because it wasn't in prison.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's good call out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so Fisk has gone and buck is the one that was closest to Fisk, but was also not officially involved in the same way that the task force guys were.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not sure how easy it would be to pin anything on buck if Fisk isn't there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, I guess the task force guys could kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: speak, I mean, like Powell, if you wanted to flip, but Powell doesn't really seem like the kind of guy that's going to flip, but anyway, yeah, I think you're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could go any number of places with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I did think, just because that made me think of Daniel.
[SPEAKER_00]: the the final shot of BB at the bulletin.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought was was really great also with Ellison and also seeing the Ben Yurik articles.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's what I mean by they all kind of got some level of resolution and
[SPEAKER_02]: It made it not feel peripheral.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, the whole season did a really good job of making the BB reports feel really integral.
[SPEAKER_02]: I thought to this way more than the first season for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you kind of previewed this before I think we ever even started watching that this would try to kind of clean up some net flick stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what I'm really impressed with now that we're
[SPEAKER_00]: is they, you know, they had these, all these Netflix shows and they were out there for a while, just kind of dangling and we didn't get any resolution prior to end game and then we didn't get really any sense of what they were going to mean, even once we had Den Offerio and Hawkeye.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I guess, like with Susan Monobord again, they didn't yet know when they were starting, what it was gonna mean and they were kind of trying to,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a piece both sides and I think it wound up really frank was there as an example.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I think that they well, and I mean in the initial version of season one before they kind of retooled it seems like they were basically going to keep Matt and Fisk and try to kind of move it forward beyond that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think
[SPEAKER_00]: like the things about season one that felt a little messy or disjoined at times.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I think that that was overblown.
[SPEAKER_00]: We say that in part because we know that that's what happened, but also I think now that you see how they played it all out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only did they wrap up all these things that maybe didn't seem like they were fully necessary in season one.
[SPEAKER_00]: They also did a great job of kind of putting us now at a point where like they did all this work to make the defender stuff feel genuinely like canonical it's not just oh it did happen or now Matt knows Jessica so so that means they must have met and fought it together in defenders bring Elson and bringing Luke back
[SPEAKER_00]: it's not that they have to now do a ton of stuff with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Although I saw where Brad Winterbaum said that Luke will be a big part of season three, but it's more just that now they have kind of put everything back on the board the way that it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: circa 2018 before there was all like all these cancellations and confusion and how to things all linked together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so to your point, maybe they never do anything else with B. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E. E
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to do a entire podcast episode on what you just said.
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, I'm sitting here thinking, I don't think I should answer that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think going on it because I think we do a separate reflection episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I had a weird experience last night, a gift actually, where my wife had a small group.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I watched it immediately in time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I watched it from like eight till nine.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then jumped on Instagram and then YouTube live.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then my wife came home and she wanted to see it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So she was like, oh, I'm when I walked in on YouTube live.
[SPEAKER_02]: She was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: She went upstairs.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, then after I wrapped it up, we watched it again.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I got you all well, think about it again all last time.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've seen it twice already and think about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I already have like an overall reflection episode, like we used to do with movies, you know, that I want to come back to because I think there are so many things.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to put a pin in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: My plan is that friends from work plus listeners will hear that episode first, and then that'll become available on the main feed.
[SPEAKER_02]: When we talk about that reflection.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, let's get into, how does this affect the greater MCU at large, uh, so just following up after a quick word from the sponsors.
[SPEAKER_01]: By the way, this is a friend of mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I am rude.
[SPEAKER_03]: You saved the good stuff for special occasions.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is the first time this season I think where our just following up section is going to be somewhat lengthy just because this feels like now we kind of know as you were just mentioning, how is the table being set?
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously we have Matt kind of left in prison, we have Fisk.
[SPEAKER_02]: on the beach somewhere, Luke Cage makes an appearance, where does that go from here?
[SPEAKER_02]: We see that Mr. Charles is now kind of back to his shady CIA stuff with Bullseye.
[SPEAKER_02]: Could that be, could that spin into a larger MCU thing?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that a special presentation of itself?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is Bullseye joining some version of a,
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we talked with a dark Avengers a lot around Thunderbolts and it really kind of wasn't that necessarily because all of those characters are a little more, you know, they were like, good people I think they just had a little bit of a troubled past kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: There are a few characters out there, like Bullseye, who are a little more, if it's a scale, right on the scale of just kind of a psychopath, that you can aim a certain direction, and it can be very effective for you, just like fisted in season three.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I wonder if that starts a new kind of team, like a truly dark team, and who else could be on that, is an interesting thought?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like there are some characters out there that we could think through for standing purposes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like, and this is a hint at my reflection episode, I was two things are true at the same time.
[SPEAKER_02]: I always say that, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like two things I feel equally passionate about.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to use a parallel to the John Watts Spider-Man trilogy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the John Watts Spider-Man trilogy was virtually perfect.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's an unbelievable telling of what a young Peter Parker is like and his grumming of age.
[SPEAKER_02]: But like we said, I just finished knowing whom I rewatch.
[SPEAKER_02]: We say so many times, if they go back to that in brand new day, the tone, the age, like the problems that someone has of that age, those relationships, if they lean heavily into that territory, that's a huge mistake in my mind.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, the table's been set, we're going here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel that way about this now.
[SPEAKER_02]: This was so good.
[SPEAKER_02]: The mayor thing worked so well.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think at this point going forward, it would be a massive mistake to go back to any kind of like political thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I don't want the third season to be anything about like a public figure like the mayor.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, when you do a mayor thing, inherently there's built in hurdles that you have to head cannon about like, okay, this is a really public figure murdering people.
[SPEAKER_02]: how is he going to get away?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, they didn't even really address how does Matt have an attempted assassination on his life in the parking garage the night before.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he still shows up and there was no addressing of someone tried to kill him, post the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if like, if Powell had had the fake bulls, I kill Matt, what would have been the legal
[SPEAKER_02]: justification for now that Matt came out as their devil and he's assassinated how can they get around that all those problems are Practical problems that only arise when it's a public figure like a mayor.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when Kingpin is in the shadows You can do that stuff, and it's just like the head cannon as people don't know who's doing this stuff like it's hard to guess why it's happening So yeah my point is who my point
[SPEAKER_02]: on all these different levels, I really am ready for next season for them to not play the hits.
[SPEAKER_02]: So to the degree that they did honor so much the Netflix off.
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, two things are true.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was basically perfect.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really feel like the solution for next season is to go a totally different direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you can have this come back.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think Fisk can just leave the beach and immediately be pulling strings.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, how is that not belittling what happens here?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that it's so weird because he's one of the greatest villains in comic book history.
[SPEAKER_02]: But at some point, there has to be an ending.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, there were a few comments on my live
[SPEAKER_02]: I've gotten a little bit tired of Daredevil vs. Fisk, and I don't feel that way.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I get what they're saying, like at some point, there has to be a different villain.
[SPEAKER_02]: At some point, I don't want to do the political thing again, and now that we have Matt's identity revealed, maybe that's a new thing to spend into, but here's my last thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to do the Netflix thing again.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the Netflix thing, but I am so ready now.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is going to sound, this is going to be the hot take, this is the title of our whole episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, people are going to clip this, but it's like, I am ready for the Disney version of Daredevil.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, maybe the better word, the version of it is now, let's do the MCU version.
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of Daredevil interacting with Luke Cage and Jessica Jones, I'm fine with Jessica Jones being around.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I want to see Daredevil interacting with Bucky and Yolena.
[SPEAKER_02]: What does Daredevil do with, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: tombstone from brand new day.
[SPEAKER_02]: What does Daredevil do with Red Guardian?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because he's down the street.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, how does Daredevil get affected by what happens when Thor shows up or Dr.
[SPEAKER_02]: Strange again?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying he has to be an Avenger, but it's just like a different tone that I'm ready for Daredevil.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like season three, I don't want season three to be Danny Rand back.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't want and Luke Cage is the main figure.
[SPEAKER_02]: And like,
[SPEAKER_02]: You am saying like that's one direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to go the other direction now.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like let's let Karen be a thing and now it's done.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like maybe she goes back to the bulletin and that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we don't need Karen in his life every day.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want The Zemic sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want the other side of it now spider man.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want the Daredevil and spider man.
[SPEAKER_02]: That that's his problem now spider man not fish.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, sorry, that's a bad, that's, that's a bad example, because I've sort of explained everything about the villain, but you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I just want to read that world.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a huge rant about the greater MCU of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that crazy?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that a hot take?
[SPEAKER_02]: And, and all while of saying this, I think it was perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I, so what you just wanted to swap out the horns for Mickey ears now?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that what you, you
[SPEAKER_00]: Like everybody else from that kind of classic Stanley Silver Age era operated within the Marvel universe and that means that I mean in the first 10 issues of the Daredevil comic you see him work with the fantastic for you see him work with spider man like that's not a forced thing you know and even in born again the comic.
[SPEAKER_00]: that we read.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the moments that's really memorable is when the Avengers show up, yeah, and interacting and kind of giving a unique ground level perspective on what the Avengers are doing and having conversations with Captain America and an Ironman.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think
[SPEAKER_00]: somehow antithetical to Daredevil, then they would have to ignore some of the most foundational Daredevil stories.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think there's a lot of room for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Spider-Man is the most obvious candidate and I think we saw a hint of that in your friendly neighborhood Spider-Man, which I thought was so fun, then, and I think we're getting more of that in season two of that show.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he is going to be in brand new brand new day, isn't he?
[SPEAKER_02]: Isn't he your friend Dan Gavazan is right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think, I mean, it's just a chance that in the trailer, Spider-Man's in a prison fighting the hand.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I didn't even think about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, come on.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, man, it.
[SPEAKER_02]: that also his ideas revealed so spider-man would be the first one to think oh my gosh my lawyer that caught that brick.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's dare devil.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to like speak it over us to where we're disappointed if it's not happening but Dan's right I think it's happening.
[SPEAKER_02]: That shot in the trailer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think his dare devil edited out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It it I mean I yeah I think and that that was Dan's theory too.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think I'm subscribed to that as of May 6th.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say, when I look at stuff like this, I always wonder, okay, does that, does that make sense for people that are not watching anything, but the Spider-Man movies?
[SPEAKER_00]: And to your point, yeah, it does because they introduced him in a story home.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they could totally follow up on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it goes back to last week.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the only, I guess, it's not even a what didn't work.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's bordering on what didn't work.
[SPEAKER_02]: My wife and I, after we, you know, I was stunned by the finale.
[SPEAKER_02]: I went live for an hour talking about it just like, oh my gosh, it's one of the best things I've seen.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've already knowledge it's one of the highest rated television shows.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, I love it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then after all that calmed down, my wife and I are sitting on the couch.
[SPEAKER_02]: Come on, like this is going down and Spider-Man or like Yelena, like Yelena can't someone hear about this discord does fight right too is like what Spider-Man's been doing he's like eating a hot dog right down the street.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean this is happening in his front yard and I do I get the right thing but back to just as a fan the plot thing that's BS like at some point
[SPEAKER_02]: if you have this large scale of a thing, you can't justify it.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's why I'm in wouldn't be around.
[SPEAKER_00]: Aren't you, I mean, I'm also really curious to see how the Punisher special links into this.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it's really kind of an entirely independent thing or if it is following up on any portion of born again, because I also wonder,
[SPEAKER_00]: how has Frank nudged a sassinated fish?
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, but or just all the, all the goons, like Frank, yeah, love just killing all the cops.
[SPEAKER_00]: The 18, you know, and there were so many opportunities where he would just, I mean, they're at the very end, you could have come up with a gun and just mowed down all those, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I am, I hope that that's something also, that's addressed, but I think what's nice about this season is that it not only goes back and does the Netflix stuff a service.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think that one, I remember at the very start of season two, reading stuff from the producers and the showrunners saying that
[SPEAKER_00]: This was the, this was going to be the culmination of the kind of political thing and that they didn't want to do that in season three that they wanted to kind of get back to the street level Daredevil stuff, so unless something changes based on what they had initially said, it sounds like that's their goal is to kind of now start back fresh and that's another thing I thought was so impressive is they did all of this and they cleaned up so many things, but also the benefit of all of it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think because the way the Netflix stuff happened and when the cancellation fell and then the the blip and then COVID and real life, I was always kind of confused about.
[SPEAKER_00]: what, like whether people even really knew about Daredevil as a thing, you know, there's a joke there and she hulk when he shows up and she has no idea who he is.
[SPEAKER_00]: You mean in the MCU people?
[SPEAKER_00]: In the MCU, like if it was like how much are people aware of Daredevil and then you can another little shot in Echo of them fighting during the blip.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now you know that he was at least
[SPEAKER_02]: But even before he revealed his identity, this season really went a long ways to say, like, he's kind of the leader.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's famous, the city, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: They even before the identity reveal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, and I think there was, there was a lot of that in season one and that people were talking about these things that were happening because Daredevil wasn't out doing stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you kind of get a little bit of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: that thing we talk about liking in Spider-Man 2 where when he's off the board, there's a real impact on the city because you have this one guy that is that integral and they started to set that up really well in season one.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, by the end of season two, they have made it to where Daredevil is now kind of a top tier
[SPEAKER_00]: name in terms of famous superheroes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then especially because of the big reveal, where it's the first time something like that has happened in that way since Iron Man, which was also kind of a fun call back to the foundational MCU moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think that now moving forward, like it always was going to be a little bit weird if they suddenly tried to have a scene with Daredevil in Infinity War, which is something that I know a lot of people were hoping for or in-game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just because, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: They were just so far removed like by the time you got to season three, especially.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just did not feel like it was in the MCU at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: that feels totally natural because I think that he would now be a world famous person because of what's happening like this would be like global news.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, Adam to the list of slightly super powered humans that identities are now public.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, that's a small category, but there's a few people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that the role that he can play where he now has a certain level of moral authority that I think is fitting for Daredevil.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also like that element, like what you're saying that he is, he doesn't have super strength.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's some really great when you're talking about Daredevil within the Marley universe.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some really memorable moments in the comics.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's one where the Hulk is on a rampage and the only person that is in New York to try to stop him is Matt.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so they kind of try to, it's this, like against all odds, again, the kind of Captain America standing against the army at the end of end game.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you can do a lot with that, about like this guy that is super powered, but is not capable of with standing a ton of damage.
[UNKNOWN]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it like ups the stakes, but it's also again, he's he's kind of been elevated as a leader.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that they have now defined him in the eyes of people within the MCU such that whenever he comes into that, he has a specific role to play.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not just like ninja in the shadows guy, which is kind of what I think he would have been if they had tried to introduce him back in that era.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a really great callout, and I totally agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, you were just mentioning its power levels.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, on the could I had the discussion last night about, I think it is a very select few characters that I get frustrated with, not knowing, Spider-Man being one of them, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, if all this is going down, as I talked about, Spider-Man's the one that's there.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a reason why I bring up Yelena and Bucky, because they're in this Avengers Tower, right around this moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if it's supposed to be
[SPEAKER_02]: right after or right before or whatever, but like they've now publicly been announced as a new Avengers team and they're a street level power level similar type people that are just down the street in New York.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the person who kind of manipulated them into becoming this team may be works with Mr. Charles, who's now doing this here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's not really an excuse to me,
[SPEAKER_02]: But as my wife pointed out too, Marvel has a way of being able to get around a lot of this stuff with a lot of characters because I think it's pretty easy to say Dr. Stranger's there, but he is protecting realities like no one knocks on his door to be like can you come stop this crime also he might still be in the dark dimension.
[SPEAKER_02]: right, but so like there's there's practical answers to a lot of character.
[SPEAKER_02]: So even though I ranted about it, it's a rant about a select few, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Thor makes sense with what he's going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: The Guardians of the Galaxy makes sense.
[SPEAKER_02]: Bruce Banner maybe even doesn't know yet how to like shift into a Hulk mode that's controllable to stop a crime.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like he may just be trying to avoid becoming the Hulk period.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so like you don't go to him to, you know, mean to stop a crime.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you had Tony still in play, I don't think that he would go to the courthouse.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think Tony would legitimately say this is below my pay grade.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that would be the running gag there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have bigger things to worry about than a hundred people assaulting the courthouse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, because it, yeah, I think Spider-Man is the, is the one that would show up to prevent people from getting hurt, at least if not to capture Fisk.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, otherwise, it's not really a...
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that kind of crisis.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that what you needed there was more firepower.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like that they did a good job of showing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's better man would help because he could web him up, you know, not leafly, you know, but it's not like Bucky doesn't help a ton because he comes in just shoots everybody that you know, that wouldn't work.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why I just wonder what, even Yelena, you know, what, yeah, what would she can't she needs to do?
[SPEAKER_02]: And you know, like, yeah, the closest thing would be like using
[SPEAKER_00]: debilitate Fisk, but like, but it's not, you know, watching fight with him, obviously, you know, and it's and it's a, yeah, I mean, it's a protest that's kind of boiled over in this controversial court case.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it, you know, if anything, it kind of has these like,
[SPEAKER_02]: like Echoes of a like Rodney King thing, but it's maybe Spider-Man and maybe Kate Bishop, specifically, I'm trying to give a few others.
[SPEAKER_00]: The people that know, I mean, I've, I've also could be a fun character for Daredevil to be involved with, by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I've wondered to why,
[SPEAKER_00]: My uh, would not have connected to any of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: What about Sam Wilson?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, Sam's a good one, uh, but again, I guess we don't really see him.
[SPEAKER_02]: He's in DC and, and I guess my, yes, he's in Oklahoma.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, you know, I think, yeah, I think that that like, and she has a pass with fiscal to maybe where she's like, I'm washing my hands with this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I did.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that is kind of the sense you get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just watched Echo recently.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the sense you get at the end of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I mean, I think you can explain it for most people and even Sam, like I think there's just never, there's never really a moment when you feel like yeah, Daredevil just don't have it under control at that point.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a good point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what does Sam actually do in that moment?
[SPEAKER_02]: Anyways, yeah, he doesn't know Fisk.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's not like he talks him off a ledge, not more than Daredevil could.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, everything that really happens that would take it to the level where Spiderman needs to get involved directly, at least when it comes to the finale events, is all happening inside the courthouse, and I don't know how much that's being broadcast and how quickly all of that turns, but when it's just everybody outside of the courthouse chanting,
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, that's not necessarily like, yes, if Spider-Man is around, you can see him coming, but I think that you could argue if he's somewhere else stopping some other crime or fighting somebody.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know that this is the thing where there's an obvious need for him to solve.
[SPEAKER_00]: Up until you get to the point where Fisk is murdering people.
[SPEAKER_02]: I appreciate the National Guard line for that reason.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's always like a little Easter egg to be like, call the National Guard, well, we take hours and that gives them the war they want.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's like to the fans being like, this is why everyone else is not showing up.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is all the people that are gonna show up.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, don't ask about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do have a question, maybe my last, my last just following up piece.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, that's not true, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Mr. Charles threat that doesn't it doesn't feel like that's the last of that right I don't think so Because I it not that I think that it wasn't I mean, I thought they did really great stuff with that character, but it seems like they gave him a lot of screen time That was just be beat and then leave
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and not even necessarily be just kind of he's around.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has a deal with fish.
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't really work.
[SPEAKER_00]: He gets the governor on his side and then he swaps out Luke for, I mean, we get some more background with what's going on with Jessica, but I think given the fact that we've heard there is more Luke coming season three, I have to imagine that's kind of part of
[SPEAKER_02]: everyone who had their storylines wrapped up perfectly, he would be down the list.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like it still worked, but that wasn't like the foundational take away.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm curious.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wasn't, yeah, I mean, I think as it stands, he was a very entertaining character to wash, and so in that sense, he was a valuable part.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you could also pull that character out.
[SPEAKER_00]: with a really impacting a lot of the major plot points.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's just trying to say the higher ups in the government are not happy with Fisk.
[SPEAKER_02]: And he's the mouthpiece for that, you know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think what I hope is that he does become the bridge to what's going on with Val, and I think that that's such a great,
[SPEAKER_00]: way of doing that, and that leads me to my actual final point, which is what happens with Fisk moving forward, what happens with the Daredevil world, because I do think they have now done they've done the the matte Fisk thing so well in so many ways,
[SPEAKER_00]: that they can't they can't go back to that at least not the way it has been.
[SPEAKER_00]: On the other hand, if they do wind up merging these things and we ever want to get a spider man kingpin, showdown at all, then you would have to bring it back into the fold somehow.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: And what, how do you do that?
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you do that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, like him going into exile is a thing that's happened in various ways and in the, in the, in the comics, I've said, in, in ultimate Spider-Man, where Kingpin is is a major villain, they do it really memorably where after he is kind of outed for, for murder, he fleets the country, and then it's, it's almost like season three where he, he buys himself back in and then somehow climbs back to the top.
[SPEAKER_00]: that would ring a little hollow to your point earlier, based on what they've done here, and on that front, it would be a bummer that we never got Spider-Man and Kingpin.
[SPEAKER_02]: So here me on that, that would be a bummer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I could also be okay with sacrificing never getting that
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, unless, you know, I mean, the thing that could be interesting, and I just don't know if they've set this up or not, but if you wound up with him in an entirely different context where they want to keep Denafrio, I mean, we've talked about the role that Norman Osborn plays in this
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been this saga era of comics that they're kind of a little bit pulling from with the Thunderbolt stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they kind of put Val on that and that role in the movie.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I, you know, if they wanted to create a situation where Fisk
[SPEAKER_00]: Like in the comics Osborne is initially running a Thunderbolts team that then kind of becomes the the Avengers and that's the Dark Avengers.
[SPEAKER_00]: But prior to that, the idea is you're, you know, you're a quote unquote reformed villain.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you know how these people think you're going to lead this other team of reformed villains for good.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of the suicide squad type thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know, maybe since they're kind of setting that up a bit with the Mr. Terrell stuff, they could try to work on something there and there would be a really interesting tension and that man.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was in Valkyrie.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, but I'm saying he could, yeah, he could be the, he could, he could fill that kind of role in that he is back behind the scenes and doing sort of shady stuff, but not back trying to take over New York.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in that sense, I think it would work because he is a guy where you have to imagine he can only sit on the beach for so long before he starts scheming in some way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, he's going to have to do something.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it doesn't have to take him back into New York.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be something else where he's using his connections and...
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's why the only logical end is death forever at some point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because otherwise, like even if Spiderman gets involved, what does he do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Web him up and then ultimately he goes back to jail or back to exile.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's a never ending loop until he dies because Fisk either needs to be like super terrifying and pulling all the strings in New York, even if it's behind the scenes, or he needs to be like totally off the table.
[SPEAKER_02]: The only thing I can think of is that in the Spider-Man video game, the very first mission is you take fist down, like physically, you beat him down, you go, you send him to jail and then the rest of the game.
[SPEAKER_02]: you still have to deal with the ramifications of that, which is that, look at all these other crimes that are happening now because there's a void left from this power vacuum, and like occasionally Spider-Man calls Fisk from jail, where he's still running things and he still has his bases and you're taking down his construction sites, et cetera.
[SPEAKER_02]: So even though they kind of did that in season two, could there be some version of even from the beach, Spider-Man's having to deal with all the fallout of like AT, AVTF people or other business things that Vanessa and Fisk had their hands in and that like eventually escalates with Fisk makes an appearance back in New York and Spider-Man has to physically stop him kind of the
[SPEAKER_00]: The reason I'm even having this thought experiment, I just don't know, if I don't know if they can leave Deninfrio behind entirely just because they have really, I remember a lot of the reviews of season two on Netflix, we're like,
[SPEAKER_00]: We've really missed an off real.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He is as much the protagonist or antagonist, but he is as much a main character as Daredevil is.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't I think totally agree.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if the streaming numbers stay down, can they?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, can that be the argument?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, this isn't working.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though critically, it's amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: People aren't watching it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to do something else.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I think, but you know, I'm not arguing for that for the rest of the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if they if they want to have their cake, there are ways where they could kind of the way, I don't know if you've watched a piece maker, but the way that they kind of bring Lex,
[SPEAKER_00]: back into it post Superman, where they basically go to him for help.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in that way, they open that door and give him a foothold.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if there's some that's kind of why I'm thinking about that later.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I wonder if there's something where they realize because now we've seen that the CIA has had these interactions with Fisk.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wonder if there's something where they need him to come in and like bullsize out of control or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and they're like you've known how to how to handle this guy before.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or like I wonder if it's something where, but again, to your point, it couldn't be a hide.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, now I'm back in New York and I'm going to take over the criminal underworld again.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would have to be something where Fisk,
[SPEAKER_00]: levels up beyond that to where it's like he is no longer like just monomontal with Daredevil.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's operating on a global level.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that would be satisfying and with fit with and it would kind of make him even more menacing.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that there are things that can do how that would then work in the context of a Daredevil show.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a whole
[SPEAKER_00]: But I, you know, we'll talk about this more, and I haven't read that much about the numbers, other than when we talked about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do, I just don't know if they should.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or if they will read into that here, you know, because this is how I do a whole episode, because that's a whole different discussion if it's critically acclaimed right I know you know, like I just I don't think you want to be like, well, let's do something totally different.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that I saw that because it's not been going well, sorry, like viewership wise that they may replace Dario with the Duffer brothers.
[SPEAKER_02]: from Stranger Things for season three that they'll be the show most interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's a whole conversation we're going to do on a different episode because then you go like you're saying like are you making I'm not saying the devil knows what to do a bad job but then why why is the blame falling on Dario?
[SPEAKER_02]: If you are not watching because he could say, look, I'm delivering you like a critically acclaimed show.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's your job that doesn't need to get people to watch it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I made the show as good as possible, why replace the show runner.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have to stop.
[SPEAKER_02]: Different conversations.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's kind of how I feel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't think that the issues that Disney has had, or that Marvel has had over the last few years, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're really when you had a lot of eyes on the thing, and that thing wasn't good or didn't live on the opposite.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like I, but I think that it was about that's not overreacted something where it's really good, but people just haven't seen it yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, like, for instance, I don't think and we won't, we won't get down on its tangent, but I just think to sum up my thoughts here.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about Thunderbolts.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that Marvel's reaction to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that they, they, they, then brought Jake.
[SPEAKER_00]: to the X-Men thing, which is a huge project for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So even though not many people comparatively watched that movie, I think Marvel still knows that movie worked and was great.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I hope that they would look at something like this the same way and not be reactionary.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because then if you start making, it's like the worst case scenario is how much of it is just the versus Marvel, you know, and maybe maybe Disney can't parse that out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Different episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's rank this for the file.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's rank this bad boy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You, I went first last time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you have to go first this time.
[SPEAKER_02]: OK. One thing I want to double down on is I didn't talk enough about how special that courtroom reveal was.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: When, when Matt is talking about.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there are levels in this room.
[SPEAKER_02]: and the tension I felt, like my heart was actually beating fast, and as different characters who know are starting to put it together, like, like, like, here's them being like, what?
[SPEAKER_02]: But Karen being like, oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Fisk being like, you don't want to do this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, and, but the fact that the reveal also hammers home, the first episode with the Northern Star, like that the reveal is key to putting Fisk away because of the Northern Star is a perfect example of doing two things with one scene, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, now the whole thing is tied up.
[SPEAKER_02]: and the Northern Star wasn't just a fine action piece.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It actually was the thing that put him away.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that tension, I didn't pick up my phone one time for 52 minutes to see what anyone was saying.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when I got done, I immediately went live.
[SPEAKER_02]: And my heart was still beating fast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the beginning of my life, if you watch it is, wow, oh my gosh, guys, cause my heart was still beating.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to give this episode this finale an A minus, which is like my second A minus of the season, I think I gave episode 4 and episode 8 an A minus, like a 93% and I think on the whole I've, I've not given it lower than a B minus, which would be like an 80%
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that this season, every episode lived between 80 and 90 for your 94 and you say, Kyle, why not 97?
[SPEAKER_02]: I talked about this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think just preference-wise, as someone who just watched Loki season 2, I just love the sci-fi time travel, what's going to happen, the twists.
[SPEAKER_02]: more than the ground to twist.
[SPEAKER_02]: So a 93 for me is an incredibly high score given the context.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that this show is now in the tier with one division, although we call that on our website S tier because of the time it came out, how it was released, etc.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of like a special tier that's almost impossible to recapture and rank.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so what do you want to call that its own tier, whatever, but the top tier tier one then is Loki season two and and dare devil born again season two for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a pretty clear line after that to Loki season one to moonlight, um, to a few others where you say, even maybe Wonderman where you say there is a clear to me step down from from those top three.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for me, overall, this is
[SPEAKER_02]: the top tier of marble television.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I would still go Netflix season three as one.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then this as a close second.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if season three is like a 94.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a 93.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then I would probably go season one.
[SPEAKER_02]: then born again one and then season two of my complete Daredevil ranking.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Netflix three born again to Netflix one born again one Netflix two is so that's that's my that's my final word where I sit on May 6th about the whole thing yeah I think I think I'm in the same place and I was
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's it's always hard with finale is because when it lands things well, you almost want to reward it more, but I think on its own, it feels like the top, the top tier of what we've gotten this season.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That courtroom scene.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the scenes that that will really stick out to me here are the Matt crossing Fisk in the courtroom and then their final conversation on the stairs where you see Matt like I love seeing Matt out with Fisk instead of just taking him down physically
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like also the moment when like he out with him and beat him and yet then extends the grace.
[SPEAKER_00]: The impressive thing about this season and I think that more people need to recognize this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think it was Neil that pointed out somewhere that the amount of time we've gotten on screen with Matt is more than any other Marvel character at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: and the fact that, like, people get lost in this, but can it live up to the Netflix stuff?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, is it better than the Netflix stuff?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think what's hard about that is, the Netflix stuff exists now, and you've seen it, and you're having to build on that without retreading it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's not like a thing where you're rebooting it with a new actor and a new, like all these new stories are available to you.
[SPEAKER_02]: So where a comparison would make more sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, it's not about just part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, like you can do that with the amazing Spider-Man and the rainy Spider-Man, like that's fair, but I think here, no, like you, what you wanted was a continuation of these Netflix narratives.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've done that, but that means that you have to take it somewhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have, you can't just do season three again.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think season three still is my favorite, but I think what I appreciate so much about season two,
[SPEAKER_00]: is that again of board again?
[SPEAKER_00]: Is they built on that?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think added more weight to that relationship, I think we saw a kind of confrontation with Matt and Fisk that we've never seen before, either in season one or three of the original show.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what I think is
[SPEAKER_00]: I would imagine would be very difficult to do like coming to a character now that people have very strong feelings about that's already been broken down and built up and like mangled every which way and still do something that feels fresh.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the people that like for me, I get it if this is not as much your bag as season three because season three was doing such a different kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: but I love that they are actually breaking new ground and even where they're leaving Matt is that it's totally different.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like the it's like the inverse of where season.
[SPEAKER_00]: One or season three left Matt and Fisk now where it's like this sense that okay taking the bad guy down and then going back to life as as usual is obviously not working because then we wind up back in the same cycle and they made that explicit in this in the season.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now him choosing to put himself in the place where he was always taking fish and letting fish go and and like live his life if that means peace for the city is really interesting and and so I think that they not only did things qualitatively well, they did things that are
[SPEAKER_00]: character.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, pushing it forward.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it, I'm very happy with where this ended both on on the season two level and just kind of wrapping the general daredevil narrative to this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it makes me, it makes me, I think I'm I'm more excited now about season three of the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I was for season two after after the first season.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's kind of the
[SPEAKER_02]: It's days like these that I just, it makes me really thankful as cheesy as that sounds, because there is an alternate universe where Kevin Feige retired 10 years ago, or that these movies never took off to where just think about what we get to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we're watching a show about a comic book character that millions of people read about, and it's being done so well.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, to the point now, we're casting-wise, you really couldn't picture somebody else being Daredevil and you really couldn't picture someone else being Kinkpin.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're getting to see that on-screen for a decade and they're still finding ways to make it new, as you're saying.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really cool to me that this is the reality we live in and that it hasn't been given up on.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just, I just really enjoyed watching it and I never want to take for granted.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, we don't know if we'll ever get another Daredevil season.
[SPEAKER_02]: It could be canceled.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like right right at some point Kevin made his retire and they quit the whole thing and so I never want to take for granted Like last night I had a moment watching the show going this is really fun like this is cool that this storyline is still being continued Yeah, and that there are still ways they could go take this character and bring them into new worlds
[SPEAKER_02]: it's just very exciting.
[SPEAKER_02]: But here's the thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not done yet because next week is the Punisher special.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we'll be back here talking about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure if we're going to get a screener to that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would think we'd have it really soon, but if we do, hopefully we can pre-record the episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's ready.
[SPEAKER_02]: The second you guys are done.
[SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, it'll be next Wednesday again.
[SPEAKER_02]: That will be back here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then just a quick little look forward.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a little bit of a gap in mid-May till July, but I'm not worried about filling it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have X-Men season X-Men 97 season 2, which will be fun to watch and you know, maybe we won't have a weekly episode, but touch base on occasionally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, we also have a super girl coming on June.
[SPEAKER_02]: Super girl.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say no one's film.
[SPEAKER_02]: Odyssey comes out in early July before Spider-Man.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, a few other screen-saving things I'm going to want to talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Mandalorian and Grogo.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure we're going to talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will at least talk about, um, uh, disclosure day comes out in May.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm excited to do a screen-saving episode on that from Stephen Spielberg.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, and then I'm watching widows bay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So with us by on Apple TV, okay, I was gonna tell you I that you should watch with us bay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I've only seen the first episode.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've seen two episodes and I'm gonna cover that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that'll be a screen save for episode and I logged into my this is crazy side note.
[SPEAKER_02]: I logged into my Apple screeners account because I was curious if I could if I could find Windows bay on there to just watch the whole season and not have to wait.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I don't have Windows Bay yet.
[SPEAKER_02]: I emailed them about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But guess what I found in there.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have silo season three the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which I've never so silo season three doesn't come out till July, Robbie.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I don't even know if I have access to Apple screeners.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't I this is something I did on my own.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like manipulate it so I can see if I get severance.
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, nice.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I have, but what is, that's, I've never heard that's two full months early.
[SPEAKER_02]: The embargo's not until July 1.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I have the whole season.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so anyways, I'm debating how to handle that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's another thing I'll do a screen save for them.
[SPEAKER_02]: So sorry, this is a little tangent.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's gonna be a lot of stuff that we're gonna have to talk about until Spider-Man.
[SPEAKER_02]: And obviously, the ramp up to Spider-Man is gonna be massive.
[SPEAKER_02]: You and I are already in the process of making plans of what that looks like.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it gonna be in LA?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it in Austin together?
[SPEAKER_02]: Is it New York, somewhere else?
[SPEAKER_02]: Comic-Con is right when the Spider-Man comes around and Comic-Con marvellous who's going to be back at Hall H. So that'll be news there for Doomsday.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then it's Vision Quest.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the next live action show is Vision Quest, which I'm really stoked about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just to see Paul Bettany and James
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then obviously, this is all heading towards the day of doom, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're heading that direction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Avengers doomsday in December.
[SPEAKER_02]: So anyway, sorry, that was a tangent.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just a look forward of what we're going to be doing on our podcast.
[SPEAKER_02]: Exciting times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the summer is going to be a fun movie summer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think box office is already killing last year, which is a really exciting thing like Devilver's product is ripping, project hell and Mary ripped.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of things that they project, Toy Story 5, they project dooms at a rip.
[SPEAKER_02]: My point is this is good for theaters.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want Odyssey will rip, so if they can just beat projections, hopefully we start going this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I think, I think, uh,
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it, uh, what's, what's Thorshate to, to Loki at the end of, uh, Ragnarok, like, I think it's all going to be just fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: which I don't mean to say that that's not true, but I was about to say what happens right after that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know, I think things are looking really great, but I really do think that like this is what's fun about this year as opposed to some past years, we're just kind of starting this ramp up into some really fun stuff both in Marvel and outside of Marvel.
[SPEAKER_00]: man.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that I'm I'm having to debate which things I'm I'm most excited about.
[SPEAKER_00]: We know that we're going to have a lot to cover.
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll see you next week.
[UNKNOWN]: Thanks.