[SPEAKER_01]: What's up everyone?
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the crypto matter podcast and we have some great guests here for you today We don't have just one.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have two and today were joined by shy Novik who is from and live Historic Utics in Roy Shaham the CEO of rain to talk about
[SPEAKER_01]: really one of the most unique stories in the market.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a NASDAQ listed biotech pairing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's clinical pipeline with one of its first of its kind prediction market treasury strategies built around, you know, the rain protocol really excited to have them both on, shy, Roy, thanks for jumping on the podcast today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks a lot, Brian.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for having us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I, I, well, I started things off.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess we should kind of maybe kick it off a little bit and shy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's start with you with love to know a little bit about your background, how you got into the position.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then we can hand it over to Roy and just learn a little bit about his background and he's the CEO of Rain, which is a big dog position over there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So excited to have you both on.
[SPEAKER_02]: So here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I started my career like a more,
[SPEAKER_02]: corporate guy.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got my MBA from Cornell and I worked in institutional investment in Connecticut and then venture capital in New York.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like very classy move, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Very classic move.
[SPEAKER_02]: And but then then basically made a decision to do something on my own.
[SPEAKER_02]: And out of
[SPEAKER_02]: all the possibilities that I knew nothing about and I'm just being very, you know, very straightforward here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I tend to pick things that I don't know much about, so it's getting me more excited.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, I don't know if it's.
[SPEAKER_02]: But it is what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I decided to, I formed a biotextora.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I'm not an MD, I'm not a PhD, you know, but I decided that this is what I want to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I, in licensed, some very interesting biotechnology from Washington University in St. Louis and started a garage company by the name of Pearl or Biotech, and ended up a couple years later, took the company public on the New York Stock Exchange, and then a few years later sold the company,
[SPEAKER_02]: to a large American pharmaceutical company, it was a $590 million transaction.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they asked me to stick around to run the company post the acquisition for another two years, which I did.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then at that time, I partnered our lead product, which was a drug, like a next generation growth or more for children with growth owned efficiencies.
[SPEAKER_02]: I partnered that product to Pfizer,
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a mega deal, I mean, Pfizer paid $2.95 million just the dumping and for that particular deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a very sizable deal.
[SPEAKER_02]: And today I'm happy to report here on your podcast that my old drug, which is now called in general by Pfizer for children with global diseases, is marketed in over 43 countries receives marketing approval in more than 43 countries, including Japan, Europe and the United States.
[SPEAKER_02]: took in livex public 2019 on as that and trying to try to move forward with that but then we'll get into that in a moment and let's I'll let Roy get into the introduction mode
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks, Shai.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm Roy, I think 20 years in online consumer, most of them headed up gaming operations, eye gaming operations, I worked for William Hill, I managed to business division there with him here at Global Sports Book, Regulated Sports Book,
[SPEAKER_00]: went on, had my own established and managed shares creating company that operated also regulated in Europe and in the U.S. stepped on to 888, another global gaming company, managed the poker division there, some other divisions as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So most of my career managing divisions and companies
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think about a year ago, I saw the prediction markets and, you know, we look at it today and I think it's sort of unfolds as we speak about it, but it's literally anything is tradable.
[SPEAKER_00]: everything is tradable.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're also doing our version to allow anyone as well to do anything and everything with the with credible outcomes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's sort of how I funneled into studying rain and prediction markets.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, happy to be here with you to talk about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, amazing stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is kind of, we were talking a little bit about it for the podcast, but this is like two of my worlds or three of my worlds colliding here, because I'm obviously a big kind of crypto and blockchain and prediction markets.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also have like 20 years experience in like medical device and pharmaceutical sales.
[SPEAKER_01]: I even at one point I heard your sportsbook and gaming history, Roy, and I worked at draft kings for quite a few years as well at my timeline.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're kind of we're really missing and mashing nicely, so I'm sure we could take this podcast in a million different ways, but I have a few questions and let's get it off here with shy for for the people hearing first about and live x what's the simple version of what what the company is today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's it's it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we are essentially the core operating focus is what we call quality longevity and that's something you know a lot of people have been talking for many years now about longevity
[SPEAKER_02]: and translating that into how can we take someone who's 75 years old, which is an example, and extend the lifespan from 75 to 82, whatever, something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: But not a lot of people have been talking about the quality of the delta.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so when you try to think about it, is there really a big point of extending lifespan
[SPEAKER_02]: during that life expansion, so we are really focused on that segment of the market and specifically the most prevalent debilitating disease that affects people of 60 and above in terms of the
[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds crazy, but that's what it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: So a lot of people, tens of millions in the United States only, at these age groups, they can't walk or stand in a lot of time.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't travel as they used to, they don't go to sea friends, they don't go to the movies, they don't even go, they kind of stay at home, they heard, they eduate,
[SPEAKER_02]: They developed diabetes type 2 sometimes.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a whole circle of morbidities that starts accumulating and reducing by the way, sometimes the high risk of mortality because of the morbidities, not because of the knee pain, but everything that is said, and people get depression sometimes because they don't get to travel to see their kids.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's just a lot of it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, and so the idea and for the last 100 years,
[SPEAKER_02]: There hasn't been, and that's again, shocking.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was shocking to me when I was, I just think that you're going to react the same.
[SPEAKER_02]: There hasn't been any new drug, really, that was approved by the FDA and that actually helps.
[SPEAKER_02]: I said, like, what do you mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, 100 years.
[SPEAKER_02]: There is nothing really.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, people go through the cycle of pain, they get injected steroids, and then they say,
[SPEAKER_02]: Four weeks later, they're starting again, then they get, you know, the other one, they can ask it and they just move on and on and on and on until they go to a knee replacement surgery Okay, kind of and that's also sometimes they can sometimes they can't there's a recovery from this there is recovery from that There's a there there are many issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we have this drug called allocetra that we inject directly into the knee
[SPEAKER_02]: And it works on a completely novel mechanism of action that hasn't been targeted until now, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have completed the clinical trial.
[SPEAKER_02]: The results were out last August and it was a randomized control study showed really superb results in terms of both reduction in pain.
[SPEAKER_02]: but also increase in functionality of the knee.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's also important.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just the pain thing, but also increase in function.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we are now initiating another large phase to be trial in 1802 patients, randomized controls that are being the US and in Europe.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's like a later stage trial.
[SPEAKER_02]: for this population of people with the same endpoints, which are the reduction in pain and increasing in function.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're very gung-ho on this thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we believe that we will be able to introduce something novel.
[SPEAKER_02]: that actually works quite well that's going to hopefully change the lives of tens of millions of people in the United States and also obviously around the world.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is kind of what we have been doing and then what we decided to do was to add another component to the business, to try to add shareholder value through our treasury management.
[SPEAKER_02]: So typically in Treasury, you know, you have what, US dollar and you have euro and maybe and you know, maybe Japan is the end, I mean that's your Treasury typically, we decided to go big and add value to our shareholders by investing in Treasury strategy centered around prediction markets.
[SPEAKER_02]: And essentially, you know, when you kind of speak to some of the people surrounding the company, it's, you know, we're talking about maybe the two things that are
[SPEAKER_02]: most critical to a lot of people, definitely in the crypto world, and I'm not an expert in crypto by the way, it is to where I claim, I know a little bit, but so it's like health span and wealth span, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So people want to be healthy and they want to have enough money,
[SPEAKER_02]: So they can do whatever they want and they can remain healthy and they can travel and they can, so this is what we're trying to do here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're trying to combine those two worlds.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're trying to do good and develop something that's going to help tens of millions of people in terms of the health span.
[SPEAKER_02]: And also while we're doing that, try to see if we can from the treasury side at a lot of financial value.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have decided to go with prediction marketing general,
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have conducted a private placement last November.
[SPEAKER_02]: We raised $212 million, and we have invested most of that cash into the token code range, the crypto token code range of the rain protocol, which rain is the CEO.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry, Roy is the CEO of the rain foundation.
[SPEAKER_02]: And within prediction markets, we wanted to focus on what's called now we're going to double-clicking a little bit, but focusing on decentralized prediction markets.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to mention before Roy provides the real insight.
[SPEAKER_02]: I really just want to give our thoughts and our approach on
[SPEAKER_02]: how come, why did we select what, but it makes any sense to us to get into this, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're just from the top, and then maybe, you know, Roy can provide obviously the detail.
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, when you're talking about content, just content, your part of content consumption by hundreds of thousands of people around the world, I guess.
[SPEAKER_02]: Netflix is a centralized content provider.
[SPEAKER_02]: They decide what's their budget and how much money they put into it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's it.
[SPEAKER_02]: They decide.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a centralized content, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Central has content provider.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can decide whether you want to pay for the subscription and you can select which one you want to watch, but they decide for you.
[SPEAKER_02]: TikTok on the other hand is a very different content provider infrastructure.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't produce the content.
[SPEAKER_02]: They allow the long tail of tens of millions of people to produce the wrong content, anywhere in the world in any language.
[SPEAKER_02]: about any topic, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And they just try to find a way to monetize this whole thing, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So what we love about rain is that rain is essentially for those of anybody listening who's not, you know, a true expert in prediction markets, but rain is essentially the TikTok.
[SPEAKER_02]: of prediction market compared to the Netflix's of prediction market.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Kalshi and Polymarket, which are top-to-leading prediction markets, they're the Netflix's.
[SPEAKER_02]: So they're centralized and they decide which markets are going to be up, okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you can decide, like Netflix, whether you want to participate or not, with rain, you and I and everybody can create our own markets.
[SPEAKER_02]: in our own intermarkets, at any language, anywhere in the world, and then people can participate in this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's the beauty, and they can co-exist.
[SPEAKER_02]: The success of Carl Schien Polymarket will not detract from the success of rain.
[SPEAKER_02]: And the success of rain will not detract.
[SPEAKER_02]: They just co-exist one next to one is more centralized.
[SPEAKER_02]: The other one is decentralized.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we thought that there's a lot of promise in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of a young and upcoming essentially.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's from our standpoint, how this whole thing came about.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, amazing stuff there, an amazing background, and certainly a NASDAQ listed biotech becoming integrated with one of the first decentralized prediction markets in the first digital asset treasury, is certainly an interesting move.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was looking after,
[SPEAKER_01]: Alicetra here, and yes, 72% reduction in pain, 109% improvement in fucked function, looks extremely favorable, excited to hear more about the clinical trials, but I'm a big health guy, I'm in my mid 40s, I think longevity, I want to be able to get up and play with my grandkids one day and be able to move and you know, there's definitely different ways and you always hear about it in the medical world quality of life.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you can live to a certain age for sure is at 80 85 90 whatever wherever we're blessed to go to, but there's definitely a quality of life there as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're last 5 or 10 years going to be like, hey, you can't even move it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And people talk
[SPEAKER_01]: I could go on for like an hour on this podcast about like health, but people talk a lot about like how they gain weight as they get older, you know, and I always always push back and I'm like, we all do, but a lot of the reason we gain weight is older, it's not because our metabolism slowing it, it's we are slowing down.
[SPEAKER_01]: we're just moving less than we were when we were in our 20s.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're moving less than we were when we were 30s and we're kind of still eating the same foods.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're moving less and it catches up to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess that just kind of put a bow on that part of it is I'm just a big fan of anything that improves people's quality of life that makes them
[SPEAKER_01]: live longer and live happier.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's just a huge side of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, and this is extremely interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to the right side of things, a big prediction market guy here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I'm, we've talked about it on our show in the past.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know our audience knows we've talked about centralized prediction markets, like the cowshees and Pauli markets.
[SPEAKER_01]: Talked about decentralized
[SPEAKER_01]: prediction markets even before you jumped on today.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was familiar with rain and kind of followed it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I know it's I believe it's on the Arbitrum network if I remember correctly.
[SPEAKER_01]: But Roy we'd love it to know yeah we'd love to know a little bit about your side of things as a sea of rain.
[SPEAKER_01]: I knew you're on the Arbitrum network but I've followed rain pretty closely and I know you've been doing some really interesting things out there but we'd love to just hand it over to you for a moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks a lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so rain is a decentralized like you mentioned decentralized ad permissionless prediction market protocol and yeah, it's it's developed on on arbitrum We take pride in in enabling being the enable or being the engine the vessel for
[SPEAKER_00]: Possibly thousands of prediction market products, not only markets, not only open a market, but really products ATZ.
[SPEAKER_00]: We developed our SDK and launched our builders program not too long ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really like the agentic era SDK, if I may.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's no way around it, it has to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're thinking about what we can do here at this time,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think previously you had like in neighbors and companies that, you know, they do the protocol or they do the code behind sort of a SaaS or B2B company and I think in the last
[SPEAKER_00]: probably six months, not more than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: This completely flipped into you provide the tools and then anyone, not a company, not a coder necessarily, can take your code, go to OpenClaw, go to any other agent, you know, tell OpenClaw you know, take this, take this base, take this SDK, read all you want to read there and let me open a new prediction market product.
[SPEAKER_00]: and it's there and you know the the nice thing about it is that I think a shy mentioned Netflix and TikTok and if you think of it I don't know what we will have there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyone's idea can be better than mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're really enabling it.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you see Tech Talk, I think the people that started TikTok didn't say I know exactly what content would be there, but there's a lot of content.
[SPEAKER_00]: And prediction markets really, I think, engulf everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's, you can predict anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can predict any market.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be culture.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be science.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be company KPIs.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could be global, it could be any country, it could be, you know, major elections for something in, in, in, you know, somewhere in the world, you know, in, in, in Turkey, in Indonesia, and these types of markets, you don't need, you don't need me to open, I'm not a curator if we talked about the two gliers, we talked about calcium polymarket, they curate the content, they curate the content, they curate the content.
[SPEAKER_00]: and we really see ourselves as enables for this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's pretty much what stands behind us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course we contact, you know, working with Shai.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think for us this is an amazing team and what we...
[SPEAKER_00]: If I would add another word that is not prediction market here, is it's also our way to do good, you know, succeed with prediction markets, but also, you know, other stuff I hope that you know, everything succeeds there and we make good, we make it wealthy and healthy if you gave that build up size so I had to take it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, great wrong health and wealth.
[SPEAKER_01]: I signed me up for both in that order too.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll take health first and wealth second, but I'd like to be fully maxed on both of them if possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: I guess I do have a prediction market question here for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe more directed to Roy, but feel free to whoever if shy you want to jump in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you see prediction markets?
[SPEAKER_01]: As I get that you're saying that you don't create the content in you're the enabler, but you're overall view of prediction markets.
[SPEAKER_01]: You obviously have an interest in your expert in the area.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you see prediction markets is more of trading venues, information markets, media products, financial infrastructure?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of ways to view prediction markets and just curious what your view points are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I can talk five hours on that, but I will try to keep it short.
[SPEAKER_00]: All that you said, it's good for trading, it's good for data.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at any market, I think you see the sentiment.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just as an example,
[SPEAKER_00]: will there be a hurricane somewhere?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have plans to fly there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I book my hotel and I hitch with using that data.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, everyone thinks that you actually, you know, everyone thinks that no, they're not gonna be hurricane, they're fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still using that market.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can even open the market and ask people for, you know, put your trade on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is just an example, but you have millions of those.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it's becoming part of our life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I honestly use it, you know, I go into the markets, I see what's happening, I see different parts of the world, you know politics wars, you have everything there, you literally have everything there and this data, this information,
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really a current like it changes over time and you can feed on it like news.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it was 17% yesterday, now it's 55.
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, something happened, you know, just looking at the numbers and if you flip it, any item, any news item today that you read, if you think of it, you thinking will it happen, will it not, what will the effects of it be?
[SPEAKER_00]: And everything, every news item that you have has 10 markets underneath it.
[SPEAKER_00]: and people will ask those questions because they want to know.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's pretty much like with regards to using it as data.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course it's trading, of course there's sports games and you have a long tail, you have a lot of smaller markets, bigger markets, I think.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's entertainment as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a big brother will this guy, you know, we've busted today or not, so it like it enters everything And I think it's cool that we have I think it's it's super interesting And yeah, you know companies you mentioned hedging, but generally I mean it's it's useful as well because you do have knowledge And it's not only knowledge, it's not only what people
[SPEAKER_00]: think or hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really where they put the money to, usually.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's how prediction markets work.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as opposed to polling and asking people what they usually would say won't happen, it's much more precise.
[SPEAKER_00]: We saw that with Polymarker before before the previous elections.
[SPEAKER_00]: We saw it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see it all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think prediction markets are super cool and I've been talking about them for a very long time now for a lot of the reasons all the reasons you just stated a lot of reasons I just stated, I mean we even have like the CEO of squim base by an arm shung talking about prediction markets are the truth
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I know you're building this with the agentic layer you said and talking about we could probably talk about a entire podcast about how AI and AI agents will probably be swarming like we've never even seen across the internet and utilizing crypto again just something or we could go extremely deep into I guess I want to kick this question over to shy so why did
[SPEAKER_01]: One of these centralized venues, like a polymarketing calcium.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, first of all, from terms of practicality, both polymarketing and calcium were not, did not have tradable tokens at the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we would have had all three, for example.
[SPEAKER_02]: But we couldn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: When we thought about this, we thought that the thing was we believed, based on everything that we understand.
[SPEAKER_02]: The prediction markets is here to stay.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not a fed.
[SPEAKER_02]: there's going up in price and now I don't know in three months from now it's going to be worth it.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, so it's here to stay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Number two, it has a business model, a real real, you know, I'm old school, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not a 21 year old young, youngster that knows everything about crypto,
[SPEAKER_02]: We older guys, you know, older people.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a lot of comparison points.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we always say that in the world, nothing really changes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like nothing changes, it just changes the, you know, you change the technicalities of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But the truth,
[SPEAKER_02]: remains the same truth and at the end of the day every bubble that I've been through those that actually made it at the end of the day had a real business model behind it people and businesses that wanted to pay for whatever it is that you're offering right and
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we believed that production markets are here to stay, we believe that there is a business model behind it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we have a true fundamental belief that there is going to be a combination of the majority will be centralized markets.
[SPEAKER_02]: And there's going to be a segment for decentralized permissionless markets.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we thought after meeting with the Rain team,
[SPEAKER_02]: And we haven't talked about that, but very impressive team all around, by the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because for me, again, as old school, it's not just a story, it's also who's executing, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: There's always a way to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a terrific team, and it's executing, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: We had a strong fundamental belief, the train will capture its place as a dominant force within the segment of the decentralized permission, that's right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Not replacing Kalshe, not going after buying not at all, but within that we thought that it's going to be good for the company and for a shareholders to hold a substantial piece of that in terms of the tokens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and there's the certainly an area for all of these prediction markets to thrive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like this is the tip of the iceberg until where we're going here in the future.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know, like our audience and just the three of us, we hear about these prediction markets all the time, but then whenever I meet people, my contemporaries, and we're doing something, I mean, I still feel like
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a, I don't want to say it's foreign because it's becoming more and more mainstream, obviously, but it's still something so new that you can just see that the explosion of growth is going to be there and rain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me tell you kind of as we've been talking on this podcast and before and I knew a little bit about it looks extremely interesting to me and I would love to know a little bit more about it from Roy here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess specifically kind of whenever I go through the website here, I love to know a little bit about the token mechanics, especially this fee linked by and burn model Roy, which looks really cool and looks like a great way to utilize your tokens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Could you kind of just touch on the tokenomics of rain?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, of course.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, talking about the buyback in Britain and you know rain at its core is a governance and utility token of the protocol.
[SPEAKER_00]: The protocol charges fees from market volumes at their resolution and 2.5% so it's basically 5% or 4% depending on a market but
[SPEAKER_00]: 2.5% goes towards conversion into, you know, from that market, usually on USDT, convert it into the rain token.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is sort of a mechanism that's already built on a protocol level, but the rain token is burnt.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is, you know, a basic sort of deflationary model mechanism that, you know, the actual burn removes it from circulation and then you have deflation of the of the token of the value.
[SPEAKER_00]: So token holders actually value increases when you when you do that burn.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the more activity we have on rain.
[SPEAKER_00]: and un-rain meaning on anything and any build that utilizes rain.
[SPEAKER_00]: So from any volume that happens 2.5% is then converted and token deflated by 2.5%.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is like the basic use of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course on top of that, we also part of the fees that we take from the market.
[SPEAKER_00]: We give towards those that created the market.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they get a nice and nice fee, those supply liquidity and actually enabling the market to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's also a nice fee.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all in all, we make sure to compensate all the participants in creating and enabling this ecosystem.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, the buyback in burn is a main method for us to keep token value.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's, yeah, it's an amazing, I mean, deflationary, we love to hear deflationary in any token nomics, buy back in burn.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I get that they're like buzzwords, but there's certainly strength in the case from no tokenomics standpoint and from a guy like me who evaluates tokens like
[SPEAKER_01]: several a day.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's always something it catches my eye.
[SPEAKER_01]: I saw that you've expanded to some big exchanges here.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you're on Q coin from it looks like in January, wipe it, HTX, crack and so some big listing areas which is great to see as it's kind of like just getting ramped up here.
[SPEAKER_01]: And regulatory backdrop for these prediction markets are, it's hard for me to personally keep up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I am, I am in the weeds with it from the Genius Act to the CFTC's posture to, to the international continental exchanges investment.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you both watching closely in this area?
[SPEAKER_00]: I like to try to start maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I relate to the exchanges maybe after that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, look, from from the in live extent point, while we certainly have an appreciation for the complexities of the regulatory regimes concerning prediction markets, we are not the prediction market operating
[SPEAKER_02]: we are just holders of the token.
[SPEAKER_02]: So from our standpoint, this really doesn't touch us on a daily basis, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So we follow it because we're curious and we are a substantial kind of institutional holder of the token.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's probably more a question for Roy, you can see them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I'll take it from there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really going to need the two questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, the regulation side of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're decentralized protocol.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're enablers.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have plans to market widely in the US,
[SPEAKER_00]: and utilize rain and we're happy for you to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should make sure that you have the right, you know, license and place, regulation, you know, follow regulation and comply with the regulation.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like a basic thing, so we're enable, we're really as a B2B company in this case.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that pretty much is what we're about, like we allow we enable and we open it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Regarding the listings, then of course being listed in all those exchanges that you mentioned.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, that's obviously good for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: It allows circulation over a token, it allows trade, it makes it tradable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Of course, the more we have of it, we have more trade, title spreads.
[SPEAKER_00]: All that is basic for us, you know, to get
[SPEAKER_00]: more and more listed on more more exchanges.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I think, you know, where we're at the beginning, we're listed in very good exchanges, gaining trust that grows over time, we're adding exchanges as we speak reading.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, hopefully, you know, the future has more more of those.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, great breakdown there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And kind of just taking a look at the website and just having some questions pop up in my head.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do like how it says it's like for the agent to carry on.
[SPEAKER_01]: We touched on this earlier about how like the world of AI is coming out as faster than we ever believed with all these AI agents and how we can integrate AI agents in just AI overall.
[SPEAKER_01]: These AI tools into different
[SPEAKER_01]: work flows, I should say.
[SPEAKER_01]: So an AI-generated prediction market, correct me if I'm wrong, essentially means that you can use like an AI tool to create a new market from just a plain English prompt.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we can give it something like create a market whether the Fed cuts the Fed cuts rates in September correct.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then that market would get generated on rain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that how that works specifically?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a very basic function in how we see it, 100% you can use the SDK to create markets to create markets on rain, but as we see it, and I think that's an interesting thing, the SDK and you know, used to the API actually allows you to connect the wallet to open markets to create a product.
[SPEAKER_00]: to create a product that has the full lifecycle of a market, you want to have others, you want to create a product where others can create a market on.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's an example.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want anyone to trade on that market.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have, you can have it on your own, you know, get your domain, put those markets there, you can have it, you can have it there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for us, it's actually creating of a product that is a prediction market and not a part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: A market is, you know, opening a market and creating a market, of course, that's like the most central central thing in prediction market.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's literally if you now use your prompt and say, I want to create a prediction market.
[SPEAKER_00]: with RSDK.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want it to be nice, it's a few prompts away.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want just to offer markets, it's actually just one prompt away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or you can have a very long prompt and do everything together.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's literally we see builders creating complete websites based on the SDK, not anything else.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they coded into their website.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if you're going to act on this, Roy, I think it's very interesting because let's just take somebody who's, I don't know, is a well-known figure in fashion, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know, they have a lot of people that follow them.
[SPEAKER_02]: They can open, you know, within no time, they can open their own prediction market that is
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, a lot that maybe is interesting to a lot of people who, because their world is a fashion world and they would love to make predictions and participate in predictions that are fashion oriented me although I look like a fashion, my Guru, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, fashion is not something that I'm very passionate about, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So maybe it's not the right market for me, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But I guess there, you know, it's very just as Roy said, it's very easy to use this platform.
[SPEAKER_02]: Anybody, anywhere that wants to either, as you said, right, create just a market within, you know, just a prediction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you can do that, but also, you can essentially create your own, and that's essentially like a B2B proposition, you get very easily, you get the full suite, you can create your own brand with your own logo, and your own focus, right, and allow your followers, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, your followers, to be part of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, Brian, you can do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, a lot of followers, you are certain, certain verticals that you're an expert in, and maybe you can open some very interesting prediction market in one or two of those.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm not.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think, I just can't say, I'm not going to lie.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I'm over here, the wheels are turning a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm right next to myself personally.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like where your heads at.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think this is like some of them are the times where we're at when you mention B2B We usually think about big companies and you know, you need you know 15 coders and an marketing manager and no B2B actually means I would even call you know, it's business to business but it's actually business to builder and builder is you Me it's shy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's literally anyone today.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have the full stack
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's the amazing place that we're in, like you can have your own website.
[SPEAKER_00]: It asks, and I'm talking, you know, the abilities of OpenClo and other agents not only with rain, you know, just open this website, by the domain, put my code there.
[SPEAKER_00]: That stuff that you can use today, you can use rain today to have your own product, not have just your market, which this is amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm actually, I'm not also stealing the business to build or thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's pretty good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure you've said that quite a few times, but I like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love you can use it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have to scrub that from the podcast, so there's no digital identity.
[SPEAKER_01]: I pass it off on my own.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is amazing guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really exciting stuff in a super exciting area as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: And a lot of people,
[SPEAKER_01]: Click me if I'm wrong.
[SPEAKER_01]: But a lot of people are gonna probably compare this to probably like strategy in the Bitcoin treasury playbook.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you hear a lot about like all these Bitcoin treasury playbook things.
[SPEAKER_01]: So how's this strategy similar?
[SPEAKER_01]: But obviously, it's completely different as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'd love to just know your thoughts there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe I can start.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that it's, as I said, on one end, it's similar because strategy has obviously a treasury.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that treasury is failed with Bitcoin, which is something that they very wholeheartedly believe in.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's,
[SPEAKER_02]: you know kind of the future and that's why the build this strategy and the identity of everything got around it.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I'm taking you back when was the first time that you bought Bitcoin?
[SPEAKER_01]: Myself, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was in 2015.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a famous ask.
[SPEAKER_02]: What was the price of Bitcoin
[SPEAKER_01]: Man, I'm really not sure what that first buy was at.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just remember actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I have a unique story.
[SPEAKER_01]: I first discovered Bitcoin in 2012.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I minded on a GPU with a good friend of mine.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were mining Bitcoin on a GPU, and we overworked our hard drive to where it started to like.
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, this integrates.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it started them out.
[SPEAKER_01]: We didn't know what we are doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I still remember going on new egg and buying this GPU and him giving me the whole pitch.
[SPEAKER_01]: My good friend John gave me a pitch about Bitcoin.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a future.
[SPEAKER_01]: If this goes to the future of money, I want to say it was well, it was like 10, 15 dollars at the time whenever we were doing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: because we always joked because those bitcoins are now like, you know, with, uh, they're gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: But, uh, you know, that would have been pretty sweet, but I remember us always kind of joking, like, oh, like, uh, it doesn't make us feel so bad because if we had access to it, we would probably sold it when it was 100 bucks for beer, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: We would have never been a forced hold there, and obviously, but 2000, 2015 and 16, I'm curious what the price was.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had, uh,
[SPEAKER_01]: The CEO of my medical device company called me up and was like, hey, you were in the Bitcoin.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was a few hundred bucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was like, you don't have to say 200 bucks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the strategy is that Bitcoin is now well known currency, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: The cryptocurrency.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, some say it's going to be worth a million dollar per bit coin, 10 years from now, some say it's going to be 15,000, whatever, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But it's a well-known cryptocurrency, kind of already went through the x, you know, hyper exponential value stage, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think with rain, the difference is that with prediction markets in general and rain specifically, that's why we're similar to strategy and love it because we have a treasury with a crypto coin.
[SPEAKER_02]: But our coin is really at the beginning of its journey.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if our guess is correct and rain will
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, maybe the most dominant player in the decentralized part of prediction markets that token hopefully will experience more exponential growth phase.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then, I don't know, five years from now, it's gonna be a boring currency, like, to me Bitcoin is today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, to me Bitcoin today is a little boring, a little boring.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even though it has a lot of volatility and a lot of people try to slightly boring already.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, I'm tired of hearing Bitcoin.
[SPEAKER_02]: tired of hearing the story.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking for new stories, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Something new, exciting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like people tell me, there's this start-up that I looked at people, you know, wanted me to invest.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's in quantum computing, something completely crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this is where I want to go, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like because we're boring me so so I think rain is at this stage of you know that kind of starting to pick up starting to pick up and this is going to where we want to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah it's hard to argue that there's just love like not finding a true advice for anybody on the podcast we are is it crypto world call it a moonshot right I and somebody taught me that
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, it feels even better than a moon shot to be honest with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels even stronger than a moon shot my personal opinion not finding into advice for anybody on the podcast because we're just trying to educate you on new products, new protocols, new platforms, but kind of like as you unpack the story behind rain and this token
[SPEAKER_01]: There seems like there's some massive ups in the end of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We always say on the equity side, something that on the crypto side, no one needs to say, but on the equity side, we always say that
[SPEAKER_02]: all of our presentations, our statements, right, are all governed by the forward-looking statements that are in our public filings with the SEC, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And what are those?
[SPEAKER_02]: Those basically say that what we tell you is not 100%, you know, we don't have a guarantee that everything we tell you will happen, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know, but you know, it's like something, you know, I like
[SPEAKER_02]: He said, let me tell you what I think I know or something like that and I loved it because it connected, resonated with me because I met a brilliant, brilliant professor from New York.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it was five years ago and he has developed this new drug for a disease and we're
[SPEAKER_02]: And I asked him about it and he said, shy, I'm going to tell you something, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And he says, somethings I know.
[SPEAKER_02]: And somethings I think I know, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And you tell me, shy, which one do you want to hear?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to hear the thing I know?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you want to hear what I think I know?
[SPEAKER_02]: And the order you want to hear about to get, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that both Roy and I, I think,
[SPEAKER_02]: is we know that prediction markets are here to stay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and we know that quality longevity is a must.
[SPEAKER_02]: That we know what we think we know is that on the quality longevity side that our drug product
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll hopefully be successful and help tens of millions of people live better lives.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we think we know that rain has the right team and the right business model and the right metrics to hopefully become a very successful player within that market space.
[SPEAKER_02]: We cannot guarantee any of the two, but obviously we think that's going to happen.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, amazing way to look at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's go a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's predict the future guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: So look ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: Look ahead.
[SPEAKER_01]: The next six to 12 months.
[SPEAKER_01]: What are some of the biggest milestones investors should be watching for from in Lavix from rain from prediction markets overall?
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I can start.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just easier for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have that many milestones
[SPEAKER_02]: We're initiating now a large clinical trial, like a phase two B, and that's going to be randomized control going to be running in the US and outside of the US and we are expecting to have the top line data.
[SPEAKER_02]: from that study at the end of the second quarter of 27.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's what, like, to like, 12 months or another, something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and that's gonna be a big milestone for us to watch.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because if what we think we now will materialize and the data in that particular study will be a repeat of what we've seen so far in the older population, that's going to be kind of a life-changing event for the company and from that side, from the operating side.
[SPEAKER_02]: On the treasury side, we are really more tied with the milestones of rain, right, because our, our rain portfolio, the token going to move right down and up based obviously on the success of rain of meeting their own milestones and with that maybe I can transfer to Roy to discuss their critical milestones that they're looking at for the next 12 to 18 month.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so for us, I mean, this is an ongoing development cycle.
[SPEAKER_00]: We want to offer our builders and therefore our clients through our builders, all the options and all the possibilities that can be on prediction market.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first thing is that we want to elaborate on our offering for builders and add
[SPEAKER_00]: additional market types.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also some market types that we want to add, financial market types, adding the ability to add liquidity, different types of markets.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's like a main, a main item for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that we have an upcoming new audiobook technology that we're about to launch a really this would happen within the next four weeks I believe.
[SPEAKER_00]: And really, I think that allowing and enabling marketing in different places in the world, this is like that would be our milestone to make sure that we have all the tools
[SPEAKER_00]: and that we provide all the tools for anyone to pick rain up and create their own products.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's like that's in a nutshell.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can go through the actual road map, but I think that sort of sums it up.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have our token, hopefully, we talked about the token prices and all that's, of course, we hope for good there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we believe in what we're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talked about longevity in the beginning.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a plan to go stabilize the token and go be really amazing guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to love to have you on the podcast because I know
[SPEAKER_01]: I know there's a lot of big milestones here that we've been talking about, so we're going to have you on the podcast again here in the future, talk more about just everything that we just broke down because I think the growth could happen fast.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I want to keep you both close in the role of Dex, but I want to give everybody an audience if they want to learn more about both the companies, where should they had?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so we, uh, we have obviously our own website and live-ex.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think there's a lot of information there that is relevant to, to what we discussed.
[SPEAKER_02]: We also have, uh, uh, I, by the way, I'm, I'm biased.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think our posts on LinkedIn are quite interesting and educational.
[SPEAKER_02]: So anybody that want to learn a little bit about more can go on to the
[SPEAKER_02]: We also have an in-lives account on X, but so we typically try to populate this when, you know, with current events and things, some of our own thinking about about stuff, so we invite everybody to visit and learn a little bit more.
[SPEAKER_02]: Roy, anything about rain that you can mention?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I think best best if you contact us through our ex previously Twitter account It's a rain under the school protocol We also have dedicated pages also for builders, so but rain underscore underscore protocol would be the best way to to find us See us see our updates.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we're we're with there and we're active there
[SPEAKER_01]: And for the audience, I'm going to make sure to put all those links down below in the description so you can get linked in.
[SPEAKER_01]: I highly recommend taking a look.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know it's something personally.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just spent a few more hours today because I think there's some massive potential.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really appreciate you both jumping on today.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's up right.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to.
[SPEAKER_02]: reach your audience for a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: Dear audience, don't be surprised.
[SPEAKER_02]: Brian goes out with the marketing campaign for his brand new prediction market.
[SPEAKER_02]: Call MacNad, MacNad prediction markets.
[SPEAKER_02]: In MacNad, not going to be surprised.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you do, wishing you all the best, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: I appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Dan.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you so much.