[SPEAKER_00]: This episode and the entire season of episodes is proudly brought to you by California Cryobank.
[SPEAKER_00]: Use Code Quirfam 26 for a free, level 3 subscription to their donor catalog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Make those babies y'all and then come tell me about them.
[SPEAKER_02]: my podcast love is love coming out of strands and being able to redefine what masculinity is.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like this is another I guess extension of that is like redefining what dad had looks like in parenthood as men and mask people.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just really exciting and it's hopeful and I think it's really brought us to so much other representation of healthy masculinity
[SPEAKER_02]: other pregnant men and trans dads.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's been very hopeful and positive and in that little bubble, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need more trans dads out in the world to show sister's how they can do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, real dads carry their baby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome y'all to the queer family podcast to show all about family, but with gay, I'm your gay host, Jamie, and this is the show that highlights celebrates uplifts and normalizes.
[SPEAKER_00]: A legit picture of families in all of our fabulous identities.
[SPEAKER_00]: In this episode, I'll tell you what does not disappoint on that front.
[SPEAKER_00]: But before I get into it, it is also a pride month.
[SPEAKER_00]: y'all, happy, pride, bitchers.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is pride month, we are kicking it off with another Pride Extravaganza on the queer family podcast, which means if you've listened before you know, but if you haven't listened to the Pride Extravaganza's before you have to sing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It means that instead of just one episode per week throughout the entire month of June, I released two episodes of pure, beautiful, queer family goodness per week.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you get one on Monday and you also get one on Thursday.
[SPEAKER_00]: And these episodes that I have lined up for you this month are to die for.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before I tell you today's guests, I do have to mention it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just also today, June 1st, LGBTQ families day, which is a very important day for all of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is actually the 21st annual LGBTQ families day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Y'all, this was started by Dana Rudolph, aka Mombian, who's a lesbian blogger, who's been around for a very long time and who has been an excellent resource for LGBTQIA plus families for many, many years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And today we celebrate the joy and resilience of LGBTQ families by sharing family photos, LGBTQ kids books, and anecdotes or words of support wherever you are social, wherever you are on your social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: allies are also welcome.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I invite you, mom be and invite you to go on your social media.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you are there, share one of these things and put the hashtag LGBTQ families day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will also be doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will be looking for ones that I can share on my social media to lift you up and raise you up because we deserve normalization and we deserve representation.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's saturate social media with our
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, let me get into today's guest.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a really good one, y'all.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this pride month feels different, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: For all of us, especially if you live in the United States of America, there is so much noise right now coming from our government, from the regime.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's particularly noise around trans bodies, trans healthcare,
[SPEAKER_00]: and also who gets to build a family, which is exactly why conversations like this matter so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Today's guests, Chase and Oliver are two trans dads expecting their first baby this summer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And oh my God, y'all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Their story is full of so much joy, so much intention, so much vulnerability, and so much hope.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about IVF, pregnancy after testosterone, redefining masculinity, and what it means to become parents while the world debates your existence.
[SPEAKER_00]: This one has so much richness, it's gorgeous.
[SPEAKER_00]: And let me tell you, these two are gonna raise one badass kid who I'm gonna wanna know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And y'all are gonna wanna hear the story.
[SPEAKER_00]: Without further ado, let's roll this tape.
[SPEAKER_00]: My dog is winding at me for attention, and I gotta get back to life.
[SPEAKER_00]: But y'all enjoy this episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Happy Pride, Bishas, let's go.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, Helen Bula, please roll this tape.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: Clear family, but good, still love is love.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Chase and Oliver.
[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, we're so excited to be here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, I'm so excited to have you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And happy Pride.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is officially, we are in Pride month, y'all.
[SPEAKER_00]: you are members of the Pride Extravaganza, which is amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I'm so excited to hear your story.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have stalked you a bit on the gram as you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know the full story of the journey, and I can't wait to dig in and I bet a lot of people are going to be really excited to hear your full story.
[SPEAKER_00]: So without further ado, I do believe it's time for the elevator pitch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we ready?
[SPEAKER_01]: Ready.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, on your marks, get set, go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hi, I'm Oliver, and this is Chase.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are currently pregnant and expecting our first child at the end of July.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're very excited to talk about it here on the pod.
[SPEAKER_01]: A little bit about us.
[SPEAKER_01]: We met just after COVID in 2021, and we did married for two years.
[SPEAKER_01]: We met out in the suburbs of Chicago.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that's 30 seconds.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it one minute?
[SPEAKER_00]: 30 seconds.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was gonna let you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was gonna, you know what?
[SPEAKER_00]: You actually, you said everything in a nutshell in like 15 seconds.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you were good.
[SPEAKER_00]: You were like trying to, you were like trying to keep it going.
[SPEAKER_00]: The only thing you didn't mention is you have an account on social media, explore with Chase.
[SPEAKER_00]: where you go to different parts of the country and like talk about if it's clear enough or not which I freaking love like it's more than just that but I like I have so many questions for like where I should go next with my family so thank you for that it's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's gonna be fun exploring that account as a family now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, oh God, good luck, good luck.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, changes things a bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: It changes things a bit, but it's super magical.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so we're pregnant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's dig in how did this happen?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's pregnant?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's?
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's firm?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who's like, well, how did we put this all?
[SPEAKER_00]: This clear family building, y'all.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no one particular way and there are so many paths and you can't make any assumptions when it comes to clear family building.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's go.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to hear the story.
[SPEAKER_02]: So step one, you stopped testosterone.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I'm pregnant.
[SPEAKER_02]: All of us pregnant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Oliver, you're pregnant.
[SPEAKER_00]: How many months are you?
[SPEAKER_00]: A week's.
[SPEAKER_01]: 29 and a half right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my God.
[SPEAKER_01]: So in the third trimester, we've got a little bit, a little bit to go.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the period where baby is just like exploding with growth.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's very exciting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so is belly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so is everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: That part, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So is everything, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you stopped testosterone and how was that, how was that for you?
[SPEAKER_01]: I've always had a desire to be pregnant.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, even when Jason and I met, that was kind of like aligned and something that we talked about early on is queer couples too.
[SPEAKER_00]: When did you first bring up family building?
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause that is a thing that happens really early for us because of all the decisions we have to make.
[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like we talked about our first date, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, something like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of talked about everything, like, what are our values?
[SPEAKER_02]: Do we, yeah, what do we want to do?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, where do you see yourself in life?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, we were both kind of at points where...
[SPEAKER_02]: kind of like life-changing points.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oliver was going through a divorce and I was, you know, all throughout my 20s, I was traveling and so I was ready to kind of settle down and coming back to Chicago.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we were both like, you know, I was kind of just starting to maybe look for an apartment and then, yeah, kind of starting life.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, this is our cat.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it's all just so clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's just so clear soon it'll be a child, not a cat.
[SPEAKER_00]: And a cat actually because that doesn't stop.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the talk started early which tracks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there are really so many decisions to make, we have to figure out how we're going to do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we might not be on the same page with how we might, both like it's different from like a non-clear conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could, that the question is, do you want kids one day?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want to have a family?
[SPEAKER_00]: And yes, and you can stop there.
[SPEAKER_00]: But with us, it's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, okay, so do you want kids that are genetically tied to you or like there are so many things we have to figure out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want a known donor?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you want an anonymous donor?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like so many things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the logistical part of it is so different for queer families.
[SPEAKER_01]: You really have to think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, we're never going to have an oopsie baby, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to be, it just doesn't, it doesn't work like that for us.
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: For many of us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we ended up going with sperm bank and Chase,
[SPEAKER_01]: picked the donor.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something that I wanted him to be able to do to find somebody that really reflected his personality and traits.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to backtrack a little bit.
[SPEAKER_00]: How did you decide who would carry?
[SPEAKER_01]: That was an easy chase that we have much interest.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like from the get go, you were like, I, this is not for me at all, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: No, once I realized I was queer, I was like, oh, great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe my partner will want to carry.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like we were both kind of like, if we don't have kids, that's okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm like,
[SPEAKER_02]: like if I really really needed to carry like I'm I think I would but who knows you know so it was just kind of like organically like okay you want to I don't perfect messed up yeah that was the short that was a short conversation I love it when it's easy it's not always easy so easy decision
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was kind of challenging.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been on testosterone for about 14 months.
[SPEAKER_01]: For a big part of my life, I didn't realize that I was trans.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, being able to understand myself in that way and then have access to testosterone was really affirming and helped me kind of grow in a lot of ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, finally, feeling like yourself and now.
[SPEAKER_00]: let's turn it off.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's turn it upside down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: For who knows how long to it's like, you don't know if it's going to take the first try or like how long it, some of our friends, you know, are on like year two and so we're trying to just like, yeah, and it's like, okay, how long will you try?
[SPEAKER_02]: We don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's kind of a bunch of unknowns, question marks, and taking things top-by-step.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because I stopped it in January of 2025.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at that point, you're thinking, okay, I could do this for 12 months, but like she said, you know, nothing's guaranteed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a recent interview where the couple said to me, every morning we had to have, we asked each other that the question, are we still doing this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we still, because it took so long and it is, it takes, it takes a total.
[SPEAKER_00]: No matter what route it is, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes a, we have to work so hard in so many instances
[SPEAKER_00]: to make these families, they're so intentional, like don't get it twisted, folks out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are some of the most intentional families you're ever going to meet right here, right here on this show.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you went off in January of 2025 and then you have to give it some time for the eggs to kind of regenerate.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm assuming they your body has to do the thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, your cycle has to start because it tests to ask your own suppressors, your hormones.
[SPEAKER_01]: So then it goes to a big change and then you start ovulating again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and so then you were able to start up again in, I think you said me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean, you started IUI and me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's talk about the donor now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before we get into going into the IUIs and however long that took, let's talk about the donor because you said, Chase, you chose the donor.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's talk about the I call the search for the donor lovingly, the search for the superhuman.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can, not all of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: We can get a little kuku kuchu over, because when it's all just out there, if you're looking at a bank, it's like all of a sudden you're in a candy store.
[SPEAKER_00]: anything you can you start putting filters on and seeing the things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so what was it like?
[SPEAKER_00]: What was the donor search like for you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I feel like my personality is kind of like when I know I know and then I make the decision and I don't look back.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it's kind of like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't know how long it took me, but, you know, once you filter, okay, brown hair, blue eyes, you know, kind of tall and I, you know, appearance wise, and then it was actually really cool process of like learning about all of these.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's just really interesting, like, to hear their, like, interviews, their voice, their entire, like, backgrounds, like, so much of this process.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, this is what all y'all were going through.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm like, this is so extensive.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, every step of the way is like wild.
[SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I was really surprised at how detailed everything was.
[SPEAKER_02]: So the verse donor I chose actually didn't end up being didn't take.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we had to switch donors.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, because you only bought like one vial.
[SPEAKER_01]: We ended up having four.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm dead four.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, four IUI's not four donors.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I was like, oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I say all the time, that donor search can feel so overwhelming.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are so many decisions, there are so many filters.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are so many things to think about, especially for a little bit of co-off families like us who are building our families so intentionally.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which actually makes us the perfect moment to thank today's sponsor, California Cryo Bank y'all.
[SPEAKER_00]: California Cryo Bank has been proudly helping legitimate to co-off families fulfill their dreams of parenthood for more than 45 years y'all.
[SPEAKER_00]: In addition to offering one of the largest and most diverse donor catalogs to choose from, they also provide free vile transfer for partners, which is huge for us queer folks.
[SPEAKER_00]: a personalized letter if needed for second parent adoption, also a huge thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Free Vile Storage offers with their family today and family tomorrow programs, and access to their private sibling donor registry, which I am on, and as are many people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if they offer so much more, they really are pretty amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can start your donor search today.
[SPEAKER_00]: Visit cryobank.com and use code queerfam26 that's QUEERFAM26 like 2026 for a free level 3 subscription to their donor catalog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Y'all make those babies and then come tell me about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's get back to the episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: Love is love.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the first one didn't end up being the one, but it sounds like you were trying to find somebody chase that kind of was similar to you in books and possibly any other similarities you could find because if you're not going to have a genetic connection, you want at least some kind of something.
[SPEAKER_00]: We all do this that ties us to the baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just those, once that baby is here, it doesn't matter, none of it matters, but it matters.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you're putting it all together, it matters so much and it feels so very important.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that baby is yours, no matter what the genetics are, you know, it's some.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have some of the most beautiful bonds with our kids, especially with those of us, with the non-bioconection like it's special.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's special.
[SPEAKER_00]: I say that as a mother of a bio kid and a non-bioc kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: and the love is the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the annoyance is the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's all the same.
[SPEAKER_00]: But so you chose donor number one.
[SPEAKER_00]: You did an IUI.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds like it didn't work the first time.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then four, four more times.
[SPEAKER_02]: Four more months.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well three more.
[SPEAKER_02]: We did four I1A's with that first owner, and then we skipped June, we didn't try in June because it's like, you know, let's skip a month, let's skip a month yeah, and we were of being quite private about it too, so that was an interesting piece to I wasn't sharing this online at all because and we kept it pretty private and I was the kind of content creator that
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, I just share everything that I've ever thinking online.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it was an interesting process that way to be kind of like grieving and like going through kind of like the ups and downs of this whole process.
[SPEAKER_02]: But one thing our doctor said is that which I didn't realize that a lot of times is you're not getting pregnant because of the sperm.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that once we switched to IVF, we also switched
[SPEAKER_02]: donors.
[SPEAKER_02]: And actually the second donor, it was even more of like, I know this is like the one, you know, and then it took Matt first try.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I feel like when you know, you know, I hear that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's also very clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's so like you all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I totally hear that too, Chase, about the keeping it private, and what a toll that takes on you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's interesting you say that, and I haven't really thought about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I've ever thought about this, but my plan because I was younger was we blended them to be two years apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we started relatively quickly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And my plan was to get secretly pregnant, and then like spring it on all my friends, because we already had a kid.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I kept it private.
[SPEAKER_00]: for a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then it took me almost four years to get pregnant.
[SPEAKER_00]: It took a toll.
[SPEAKER_00]: I never even thought about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And eventually I had to start telling people because it was killing me inside that I kept having these failure after failure after failure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I hear that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's a really valid thing to bring up, and for anybody who is struggling like silently through this, I don't know what the advice is, but we see you, we hear you, we feel you, and whatever it is in the end, it's going to be okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's, that's all I want to say with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: These journeys take, sometimes take a very long time, but you get what you need to get in the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: So then switch donors.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the one IVF.
[SPEAKER_00]: It works was IVF covered under insurance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Was I UI covered at insurance?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we hadn't even considered IVF.
[SPEAKER_02]: We were like, okay, can't afford that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if it doesn't work out, it doesn't work out.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then once we did so many IUIs, our insurance was covers it, which we didn't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we're like, okay, obviously, let's try the, oh, that's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it was, it was great because I was at a point, you know, after the fourth failed I UI, like starting to try and come to terms with okay, maybe we're not going to have kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we ended up just checking to see how much it would cost and it was covered at a hundred percent.
[SPEAKER_00]: Holy moly, that's amazing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we had really good insurance through my job and that's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: Our only cost really was the sperm.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, which, which is expensive, yes, it's expensive, too, yeah, yeah, you about five miles in the end, which is not, it's not cheap, it's not, that's cheap at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: So IVF works, you're pregnant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you go back on testosterone once, no, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, no, so you've been off testosterone for over a year, like a year and a half.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I've been off of it for almost a year and a half and you, it gets passed through breast milk.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm planning on chestfeeding.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to be off a bit for a little while after the birth to.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to know, like, how pregnancy going is going and I want to know how you're for how your doctors are treating you and like, how how is it all going and just I want good news about I just want everything to just be good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think what's interesting about is our story, too, is that when you stop testosterone, that's when I started testosterone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, you hadn't you hadn't started testosterone.
[SPEAKER_02]: No.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we we going way way back.
[SPEAKER_02]: We met and as girlfriends as lesbian and then you came out first and then I came out and then you started testosterone and then I started I'm a little bit behind
[SPEAKER_00]: What was that like though?
[SPEAKER_00]: Wait, can we dig in?
[SPEAKER_00]: What was that like?
[SPEAKER_00]: So like when all of her like affirmed himself to you chase, like what?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I really like read a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, hmm, that sounds kind of right to me too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, how do I want dig in?
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, Oliver and I are kind of like opposites attract a bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: So a part of our like Oliver is kind of like sporty spice.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not sporty spice, so even when
[SPEAKER_02]: I think on maybe like our third date we talked about gender and I was like yeah, I don't know about gender but I don't really want to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Oliver was like oh no, I'm just like for sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: So then yeah it was like okay, when you cut your hair that's when
[SPEAKER_02]: You kind of knew and then I kind of explored with gender as far as like identifying as gender queer and like playing because again I was traveling for so long that you can't really experiment with like fashion and like gender expression like that much right when you're traveling to different places that might not be accepting especially right yeah and then like living out of a backpack.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that, yeah, that, that's that limit's fashion in a big way.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it wasn't like this point where I was like, oh, that's me because I was like, oh, no, that's Oliver because this is like the, you know, my brain is like black and white in some ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, oh, that's the trajectory of like being butch and like, you know, that's like the pipeline and that was not my experience at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like,
[SPEAKER_02]: very much loved being fam and but I realized like me that was like you know a form of drag and I don't mind being in drag but once I caught my hair and I started wearing mask clothing I was like oh
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I was feeling very grounded and it was like the slow progression and then once I once it hit me I was like I need to throw all of my thumb close.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like this like I don't know it's so it's so crazy because like what it's really like one day I'm wearing something and I'm fine and then the next I'm like
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you like try on other things and you're like, that feels good and now that feels 10 times worse.
[SPEAKER_02]: In a way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like once you see it, you can't unsee it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like once you know something, you can't unknow it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I hear that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's yeah, I hear that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You found yourself.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was hard for me to admit that like, I had no idea.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's like a bit of like, oh my gosh, I've been living my whole life, essentially in drag or you know, and not even like, you're like a bit disassociating, I feel, at least for me, I felt like I was disassociating.
[SPEAKER_02]: So once I was like in my body, there was like a bit of like grief realizing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: My younger self didn't get this or that I'd, you know,
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you went so long without knowing yourself, there's some grief in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: When I thought I didn't know myself.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can only, yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: A lot of queer people feel that too, maybe that came out like late in life, or didn't realize that they were queer.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: 100%.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's universal across our community and also so real and true.
[SPEAKER_00]: and we're fucking awesome because we find ourselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's be real.
[SPEAKER_00]: We find ourselves where there are a lot of people who are still living in drag out there in the world who are clueless, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying, I'm not judging.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not trying to judge, but it's like, explore it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've done the work.
[SPEAKER_00]: What have you done?
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, you want to judge how we show up in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, decentering man and decentering heterosexuality and yeah, it's I feel like it's all connected.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's why we're better.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: That judges you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it really adds preparing for having a child.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm like, okay, we've been through it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: We've dove in and we're at point in points in our life where it's like, you can't tell me who I am because we've already, you really have to, you know, stand in your,
[SPEAKER_02]: in your power and so I think being trans and pregnant and trans dads that's given us, you know, there's obviously a little bit of push back with that, but we're at a point where it's like, okay, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're gonna live our life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and your baby, your child children are going to be the better for having you as parents.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to raise some really a really bad ass or some really bad ass changewakers.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we're just doing one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at me trying to make more babies for you, but you're gonna raise some a child that accepts people, you know, you're gonna raise your child with acceptance and love and they're gonna be bad-ass change makers every single one of our children because they know, they see, they see, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So that kind of gives me a good segue into what it's been like.
[SPEAKER_00]: being pregnant out in the world and how the doctors have been, how the house society has been like, do you want to go into that at all?
[SPEAKER_00]: What it's been like?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this crazy fucked up country we find ourselves in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: We were fortunate to have a primary care doctor that was aware of fertility clinic in Chicago at a local university that had staff that were trained
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we were able to get connected with University of Chicago's fertility clinic and so that was like overall a good experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's always gonna be some staff where you have to kind of, you know, help them learn, you know, give some coaching.
[SPEAKER_01]: But overall, it was a really positive experience.
[SPEAKER_01]: After we got pregnant, it took my brain a little bit to catch up with my body.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like there was a period of time where I'm like, okay, what's going on with my body and having to like do some work to connect that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Which was a challenging and I wasn't expecting to have for that to be like an issue.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's so hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: First trimester.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it hits you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, really hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was one day Oliver's like, Mr.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have like a long to do list and I like to be busy and all this and then you were like, lay down.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you were like, this is not.
[SPEAKER_02]: what did I sign up for?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think that that is universal in pregnancy just in general, but what it does to your body, but not you're adding your gender affirming care, you're adding like we're adding some layers to it, clear family building here it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: That make it a little more complicated and more, more layers to work through and figure out in our bodies,
[SPEAKER_00]: Took a second and pregnancy is hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was aware that there was Lena, like everybody talks about nausea.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had no idea how bad the fatigue was in the first trimester.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it started to get like that a bit now that we're like in the later parts of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I just felt like I wasn't myself in the beginning.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, so many changes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's going to be more.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're in it to win it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's going to be amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you get 10 weeks left to go, which is great.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're so close.
[SPEAKER_02]: Second trimester hit you felt very connected.
[SPEAKER_02]: And you got your energy back.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that was like such a high.
[SPEAKER_01]: for you like you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I felt like I got myself back a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I started showing more and I felt more connected with the baby and with my body and I started to gain some like bump confidence.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really, I love that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're looking around in a belly shirt.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: You need a crop top this is but in the oven just to like yeah bring it in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bring it home.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we're going to love it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so I'm really excited about being pregnant in June and being able to be a visible sea horse to add out in the community and
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you got to show up, show out and put that crop tuck on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, let's go, oh, we're got a crop top summer.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is so exciting for, it's been so long since my kids are 12 and 8.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was just saying to my wife, like, I feel like I need to hold a baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I miss that, holding up the baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then I want to give it back right away, like because it gets tiring, real fast.
[SPEAKER_00]: But so I'm so very excited for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like the beginning of everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Have you talked about parenting and what it's gonna look like and what are your thoughts on being dads out in the world and how are you gonna raise this baby and the things?
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you haven't thought about it, that's good too, because we've definitely had some conversations so many how we want to be coming out of strands and being able to redefine what masculinity is so I feel like this is another I guess extension of that is like redefining what dad had looks like in parenthood.
[SPEAKER_02]: as men and mask people.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just really exciting and it's hopeful.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think it's really brought us to so much other representation of healthy masculinity and other pregnant men and trans dads.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it's been very hopeful and positive in that little bubble, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need more trans dads out in the world to show cis dads how they can do a band.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, real dads carry their baby.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh my gosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, that's a shirt.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a shirt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, you have to wear that shirt and pride.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like with the crop top, real dads carry their baby.
[SPEAKER_00]: You gotta make that shirt and take lots of pictures.
[SPEAKER_01]: I might just do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
[SPEAKER_00]: And put a little sea horse, like picture of a sea horse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, look at us.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're making merch.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like doing stuff like that, like making, using like creek of machines.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's this embroidery machine at the library that I've been kind of wanting to explore.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we might just make it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Super clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: There it is again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Super clear.
[SPEAKER_03]: You said you said embroidery and library and the same Amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it so much and I just want to ask
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you familiar with Esper Bergman?
[SPEAKER_00]: He and his husband have children that they made the way you make them the queer way and he has a whole children's publishing company and he just he pushes out all these amazing books.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can get all kinds of books that you can read to your kid that are super inclusive, super awesome that feature all kinds of parents, trans, dads, trans moms, two moms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, everything you can think of is in these books.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's so, he's awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've been, yeah, treasure hunting for queer kids books and diverse books.
[SPEAKER_02]: We already have a pretty nice library that we've already started reading.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, to the valley.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we have this one called called, in my daddy's belly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, I don't know this one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Moving brown.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Transdab that was on the cover of Glamour magazine.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that was the first representation that I saw.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I remember that in my daddy's belly, that's a good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so everybody take note, I should put, I, one of these days, I'm going to make a like some kind of resource for all the books because my wife and I and many people I talk to, we've been heavily on books to help us talk to our children about our families.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we need more and more and more and more of these books, like the more books, the better, because they get tired of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then we have our favorites that we pull down, but reading the books to them makes it so much easier to just explain our family, differences, similarities with the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I highly recommend all the books.
[SPEAKER_00]: So check out Espera Bergman and his publishing company.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, question, because my son, my eight-year-old, has been saying, all he wants to do for vacation, all he wants to do for a vacation is find some kind of a house that's alone on a lake where we can swim all day and live in a cabin.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you know any places?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, come on over to the Midwest.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it always had like a special place because that's where we got engaged.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, oh, but it's not a talk, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: I gotta go check out Saga Talk.
[SPEAKER_00]: So many places to go, so little time.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, you can't really fly anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you gotta find drive friendly places.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we could drive to Michigan, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I love that you go to all of them and you review them and you show us.
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was a there was like a campground that you went to.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just saw a video.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was like clear campground or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: That looks that looks fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're campers.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're actually going camping next weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: We love to camp.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's so keep doing it is my point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Keep doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now keep watching and see if there's a place that we have to try to get to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, vice versa, if you have family friendly things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: My dream is to go to like, I know there's like family we can province town or like queer family.
[SPEAKER_02]: extravaganza's like I really we want to go to those type of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have never done P-town which is killing me for family week but it is amazing and you need to do it for sure because everybody I talk to about family week in P-town it like cannot talk about how amazing it is enough so maybe we'll meet there I can't go this summer next summer we'll meet there.
[SPEAKER_02]: Perfect, we'll see you there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I good.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so excited for you and you're a part of the family now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So please keep in touch and please let me know.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you have a moment and things are relaxed, when baby is here and all the things, I'm so excited for the two of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna be amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for coming on to the Pride Extravaganza.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're officially queer family.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are.
[SPEAKER_02]: Since we're on the queer family podcast, we're officially in a queer family.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are.
[SPEAKER_02]: This is like initiation.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are queer family.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can't wait.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't wait to see the content that gets created with baby in tow.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be amazing.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Love you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: This has been awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Love you too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_03]: queer family podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: A huge, huge thank you to our sponsor of this year episode, California Cryo Bank.
[SPEAKER_00]: Don't forget to use Code ClearFam26 to get that free Level 3 subscription to their donor catalog.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go make those babies y'all and then come tell me about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whew, well folks, I hope you enjoyed that episode as much as I enjoyed it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you did enjoy it, feel free to listen to another or watch another.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have so many episodes for your listening or viewing pleasure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just go pick one and enjoy.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: And also, if you really do like this show, please, I know I say it all the time, but please do consider supporting the show on Patreon.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just gonna go to patreon.com slash the queer family podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna pick a tear, you're gonna join, and you're gonna get that bonus content.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're also gonna get my love and adoration for the rest of my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you all, thanks for tuning in, keep on tuning in, and I'll see you next time.