[SPEAKER_00]: I can't imagine sitting there looking at a woman that has been nothing but a good friend to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And honest to God and your brain trying to do gymnastics to make sense of why you would
[SPEAKER_00]: throw away a relationship like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: A writer, a writer, a friend, why you would throw that away for a man that you've seen treat your friend like shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the other part of it, which I you see this a lot when people are like the other woman and they know they're the other woman and they expect the person that they are involved in this affair with to leave their girlfriend leave their
[SPEAKER_00]: and come date them and be loyal to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's never how it fucking goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot stand when people knowingly witness someone treating someone like shit and then somehow think to themselves, oh, but they wouldn't do that to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you think there's something different about you that puts you on this pedestal that's just above it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, Westwood treats Sierra like that, but he wouldn't treat me like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's up, you guys?
[SPEAKER_00]: And welcome back to emotionally online, the weekly Smart Party for Heart to Hearts and Hot Gossip, posted by your Shirley, the one and only Maddie Drawspeck, who has come across an insane piece of information this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if this is one of those things where I was out of the loop and everyone else were new this or what is happening, but I stumbled across a piece of information while scrolling through the internet as one does, that truly rocked my world.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have not been able to stop thinking about it since.
[SPEAKER_00]: When I say the quote, two can keep a secret if one of them is dead, what do you think of?
[SPEAKER_00]: Assumeably, if you're around my age, your answer is going to be pretty little liars.
[SPEAKER_00]: The theme sequence of all those crazy girls, pretty little liars, famously one of the best shows ever made perfect writing, no notes wouldn't change a goddamn thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love when writers specifically for like teen shows and movies get into the writers on
[SPEAKER_00]: let's just do something crazy, you know, let's do something that no one would ever expect us to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care if it makes sense or not, like we're here to entertain above all of us.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the end of the day I'm always gonna love a disastrous teen TV show movie, any of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Give it to me times a thousand.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it So naturally when I a 29 year old woman who grew up on Prililir's here's the quote Two can keep a secret of one of them said I and my mind's I am picturing Aria like
[SPEAKER_00]: in the title sequence.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fingernails just got painted pink and lowered into the casket.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got the perfect curl coming out in the blonde hair.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was there, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: I lived and grieved for Alice and Dilarantes many times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tell me why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone said that that was a Benjamin Franklin quote To what can keep a secret if one of them is dead came from something Benjamin Franklin said I did one quick Google search about this and it appears that it's not the exact quote, but it basically is it's like a
[SPEAKER_00]: a twist on a Benjamin Franklin quote um that's fucking crazy to me first of all what was Benny get not to 17 hundreds he was doing something he was cleaning out with all these other guys who the hell Thomas Jefferson
[SPEAKER_00]: George Washington, John Adams, James Madison even.
[SPEAKER_00]: God kind of forgot about that guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you guys ever have to do wax museum this came to my mind to the other day as well wax museum We had to do it in like the fourth grade Where we had to pick a character to dress up as and then It's honestly kind of an awesome concept.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to be invited to somebody's wax museum
[SPEAKER_00]: All the fourth graders would pick a celebrity or some famous person, historical figure, to dress up as, and you would sit in the dark in a classroom, sit at all your desks in a circle, and they'd invite the parents in with a bunch of flashlights, and they would just walk up to any desk, shine the flashlight on the kid, and they'd like start their monologue or their speech.
[SPEAKER_00]: kids picked all kinds of people, you know, we've got some people doing Oprah, we've got some people doing Barack Obama, we've got like a range of types of celebrities and historical figures in the room.
[SPEAKER_00]: I decided that I wanted to be James Madison.
[SPEAKER_00]: in the fourth grade.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why was a fourth grader wanting to be James Madden, solely because I thought it was sick that a president's last name was my first name.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I don't know nothing about that guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: All I know is his last name is Madison, and my first name is Madison.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, therefore, I'm going to dress up like him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, there I was in a dark fourth grade classroom, in a fucking white wig, and a button up something or rather.
[SPEAKER_00]: And dressed up like an old fucking man as a bunch of parents walked around with flashlights imagine this I thought I would have loved to be a parent you go to your kids wax museum You shine a light on some little girl that decided to dress as James Madison as she gives a speech on Everything that she as James Madison had accomplished During it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do I remember I need it now?
[SPEAKER_00]: I only remember that he got stuck in a bathtub allegedly
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the only goddamn thing I remember loving this concept though Maybe we can find a way to bring wax museums into adulthood because I love the idea of all my friends dressing up as Something and just teaching me about it when I shine a flashlight on them in the dark
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that as an idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyways, conclusion there is just that Benjamin Franklin was a freak, and there was something happening there.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was doing something deeply sinister and strange for him to cook up the phrase, to can keep a secret if one of them is dead, Alla, Allison, Dila, Rantis, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: This beard of Allison, Dila, Rantis compelled him, and there it was, and there we have it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everything is connected, there's no such thing as a coincidence, never forget that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, in other, like, uh, sinister news or things I've seen on the internet that I'm, like, what's happening there?
[SPEAKER_00]: I have to talk about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I talked about this briefly on the Patreon last week, but I've seen so much more of it since I started talking about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was already pretty rampant that I'm like, I don't know what's happening right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: If it's more of those things that since I talked about it, now I'm just noticing more of it, or if my phone is listening to me or what's happening, but something that I see people do online,
[SPEAKER_00]: That is earking me has always urged me.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is not a new thing But I hate when people use guilt as an engagement tactic or like a way to watch time bait your audience
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, I see people do this a lot with like taro and astrology shit, which I really don't like because you're praying on people's emotions, if someone's sitting watching a taro or astrology video, you can assume that they're looking for some kind of guidance or clarity, they're going through something in their life that's making them sit down and watch this minute to three minute long taro TikTok.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot fucking stand when at the end of the video.
[SPEAKER_00]: They like throw in a threat at the end where they're like, like, and share this post or you're gonna have a horrible next week of your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna have a worse news of your whole life next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was a trend on Instagram this past month where people were reposting a bunch of photos and the prompt for it was six baby photos or bad May.
[SPEAKER_00]: Post six photos of yourself's a child or you're gonna have a horrible month.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like guilt or fear inducing engagement, but I think it is morally wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: And people wrote this up in my Patreon comments, when I was talking about this, but they were like, I feel the same exact way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have OCD and those kinds of videos can be like incredibly distressing to me, because all of a sudden I feel like I have a responsibility to repost this video or like it and share it
[SPEAKER_00]: And I felt the exact same way in the past.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I have been distressed and perturbed by these posts.
[SPEAKER_00]: I watch your whole video.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like interested by what you have to say and then at the very end, you're like, like, and share this post or something bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's gonna happen to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Repost and sent to 10 friends or you're gonna have the worst day of your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I, that to me, you're manifesting bad karma for yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think something bad awaits you for doing things like that to people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't like,
[SPEAKER_00]: The tactic of like growing your following or reaching a wider audience with a piece of content through threatening people through digital blackmail.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I just don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've also seen people do it and this is what I saw this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've seen people do it to talk about current events and politics.
[SPEAKER_00]: Trying to get people to listen to the video by gulting them up front and being like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun-dun
[SPEAKER_00]: I especially don't think it's an effective strategy for getting people to engage with politics and current events.
[SPEAKER_00]: I believe that it just makes people feel like they have a moral obligation to virtue signal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I think is not good actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually don't think it's helpful to anyone at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get wanting to get people engaged and to care more about what's going on in the world around them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think most of us,
[SPEAKER_00]: Want that at least most of us here in this space want that I don't know the basically holding viewers at gunpoint being like you have to listen and like and share and follow and if you don't you're a bad person or you believe something bad if you don't I just don't think that works and if it does work
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you're actually bringing in a curious mind or someone that is all this I'm carrying about the cause you're trying to get them to care about.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you're bringing in someone that then leaves the video feeling like they have to do the things you told them to do and be like, okay, I checked off my boxes for the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a good person now because I did the things this person told me to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Versus I actually care about the issue and I'm going to personally look into it and You know for my own perspective on whatever is happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't think it's helpful I think it's really weird when people do that the guilt of it all I think people should Want to engage with your content Because they like it not because you threaten to them too or made them feel like something bad It was gonna happen to them if they didn't because that's really bizarre
[SPEAKER_00]: And I, at this point in life, whenever I see videos like that, or like if I see, because sometimes I'll stop and watch an astrology or taro video on TikTok and a lot of them, and with being like, like and share, or you're going to have a horrible next month of your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm always like, no, you can't get me there, bitch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I rebuke that.
[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot get me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am protected, divinely protected and well-loved.
[SPEAKER_00]: You cannot fuck with me like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm not falling for it, bitch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that you are
[SPEAKER_00]: Trying to spiritually fuck with me to try to guilt engagement bait me and I am not buying it You're not gonna get me you thought you're ready to get me you couldn't bitch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm too smart for you I'm too quick I've already scrolled I've already left I gave you a view.
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't even give you a like or anything else and if I do like the video And then I realized that they are engagement Bating via guilt or fear or whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I immediately take that like back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh I love taking a like back.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do it frequently
[SPEAKER_00]: I loved the first 15 seconds and then he said something crazy and I took it back I took it right back and said well if you'd like to earn that like again You're gonna have to try harder.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're gonna have to keep working on that Because you lost it you lost me the second you threatened me as a viewer hello What's happening on the internet?
[SPEAKER_00]: I am filming this podcast episode on Wednesday, May 27th, which means that last night was the airing of part one of the Summer House reunion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, before any of my non-Summer House watchers fast forward through this part of the show, I invite you to stay because I think what's happening here this drama brings up a lot of interesting conversation topics and you don't even have to watch the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: in order to engage with this because guess what, I've done the watching for you and I will catch you up to speed with all of the important players and dynamics in the mix here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I only recently watched Summer House.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, this drama started to break in February March, March, and March.
[SPEAKER_00]: The statement from Amanda and West came out and things really started to blow up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So on April 1st, I took it upon myself to watch all 10 seasons of Summer House.
[SPEAKER_00]: and all three seasons of Winter House to catch up on all of the lore and the history of the drama before the start of the reunion.
[SPEAKER_00]: It took me approximately 47 days.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm very proud of what I accomplished.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you do the math on that, it's about three episodes per day that I had to watch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I wasn't tracking any of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was just trying to do it as quickly as possible.
[SPEAKER_00]: It took me 47 days about three episodes a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: have not watched a single cut to your movie in the last two months.
[SPEAKER_00]: Before I get into all of my thoughts, because trust I have many of them, and we're only a part one of the reunion parts two and three, so off to air.
[SPEAKER_00]: So can't wait to hear
[SPEAKER_00]: more as time goes on and to have more of a clear picture of what the official timeline of everything happening was.
[SPEAKER_00]: But for those of you that are out of the loop that don't know the summer house drama here is the just of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Summerhouse is of course a show about a bunch of New Yorkers that rent a summer house in the Hamptons.
[SPEAKER_00]: every summer together.
[SPEAKER_00]: The show documents every weekend of the summer, basically, their friendships, relationships, there's been marriages that have happened, there's been divorces, there's been a lot of dating, intermingling, friendship, fallouts, yadiada, all of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Two of our main players here, Kyle Cook and Amanda Batula.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle Cook is like the OG summer house guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's been around since episode one season one he is kind of the face of summer house in many ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amanda Batula is his now ex-wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: Season one she was his like hookup buddy.
[SPEAKER_00]: She became his girlfriend eventually, they did get engaged and married all in the course of the show and you also start to see the deterioration of their marriage on the show culminating in their divorce that was announced in January of this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is very fresh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lots of things are happening in very real time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I can't believe we're only in May of 2026 and so much has happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: Meg was over here watching it with me last night because we filmed the Pumpcast on Tuesdays.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, can you imagine, like so much of this started around the time of my birthday and like wigs night out and like can you imagine?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like length of this relationship being from Wignight out to now and Megan.
[SPEAKER_00]: I were dying laughing because I was like Wignight out feels like it was two fucking days ago Like I just can't even believe it So we've got Kyle Cook Amanda Batula both longstanding members of summer house in a long-term 10-year plus relationship between the two of them
[SPEAKER_00]: Then we've got Sierra Miller.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sierra came into summer house around season five, which was COVID.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she's been on the show for the last six years and Amanda is one of her best friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: She and Amanda have been very close over the years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sierra has been an incredible friend to Amanda specifically in the most recent seasons as Amanda's relationship with Kyle is falling apart.
[SPEAKER_00]: We watched
[SPEAKER_00]: Sierra give Amanda a ton of advice throughout the course of season 10 where she was basically sitting down with her like if you want to end this like if you want to leave this marriage You fucking let me know when I will be over at your apartment tomorrow We will pack your bags.
[SPEAKER_00]: We will get your shit in boxes in a matter of hours.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can come stay at my apartment like we will figure it out You say the word and I'm there Sierra was like a down-ass bitch for Amanda
[SPEAKER_00]: from day dot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've loved Sierra the whole time that she was on the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I'll give you my back opinion on these people even before the drama.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never been a Kyle fan.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mostly because I hate the way this man behaves in relationships.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think that he is a total man as he's a cheater.
[SPEAKER_00]: The way he treated Amanda, I never liked.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there was part of me that felt bad for Amanda because I thought that her boyfriend slash husband slash an out exosman was
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but I also didn't find myself really loving Amanda because she struck me as the type of person from season one episode one that would self abandon in pursuit of a man's approval and attention, which I find it really hard to
[SPEAKER_00]: love someone where that's their whole ammo.
[SPEAKER_00]: The way that Kyle treated Amanda in season one when she was just like a sidepiece that he called to hook up every now and then, um, it was a hard watch because from the start, you see Amanda except a certain kind of treatment and indifference from Kyle and as the season's go on it becomes clear that like she basically is just the girl
[SPEAKER_00]: and put up with Kyle's behavior long enough to like win the guy, he's no god damn prize.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she put up with entirely too much and excused way too much of his behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: The guy is a walking red flag.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a part of me that always was like, oh, God, this is horrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle is so awful, I feel bad for Amanda.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it reaches a point where I stopped feeling bad because it became so clear that she was dedicated to abandoning herself.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's only so much you can do for people like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if you want to date the biggest loser in the world and forgive him every time he cheats on you and Stick around through all of the various glaring red flags that were obvious from day one still choose to marry him in the lead up to their marriage There were so many signs from the universe from their friends family everyone
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody wanted them to get married, and when they finally did get married, like literally a month before the wedding, their whole relationship was falling apart in page, who is not on summer house anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might know her from Giggly Squad page to sorbol, but page was sitting down with a mandel, like a month before her wedding being like, it is easier to call up a wedding now than years down the line, realize that you hate the person that you are married to.
[SPEAKER_00]: This has been an infuriating relationship to watch on my TV because they have so obviously
[SPEAKER_00]: from day one.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Kyle is who Kyle is and Amanda chooses to completely self-abandoned to mold herself to being his dream girl, which I find to be a really hard watch.
[SPEAKER_00]: than we have Sierra who is very different from Amanda and Kyle for all of the previously stated reasons and so much more for one, Sierra is the first black woman that's ever been a part of the main cast on summer house.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I have no idea what the summer house audience is initial opinion of Sierra was, but based on my own reaction to her, I would assume that she was well-loved
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and these early seasons, and now I knew Sierra through the traitors before summer house, because obviously I watched the season of the traitors that she was on, and I loved her on the traitors.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I love her even more after watching Summer House, because it's clear that she holds friendship values to be particularly high on her list of priorities in her life, which you're a long time listener of the show, you understand that
[SPEAKER_00]: Friendship and being a good friend, being a loyal friend, being a girls girl, if you will, is of a high value to me as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sierra is really that bitch in every way, shape or form.
[SPEAKER_00]: Her and Paige were obviously my favorites throughout.
[SPEAKER_00]: all of the seasons they were on together.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are so many characters in like the bravo Rally TV cinematic universe that are like I love seeing these people on my screen, but I'd never want to know them in real life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sierra Miller is actually someone who I think would be a great person to get to know in real life.
[SPEAKER_00]: She seems like a genuinely nice loyal friend and someone that I would fuck with.
[SPEAKER_00]: based on what I see from her online.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can probably guess you can probably guess who's side I'm gonna take and all this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even before knowing about all the drama this is where I'm I'm coming from.
[SPEAKER_00]: Last player in all of this West Wilson West is a newer addition to the cast he came in on season eight.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's kind of like your classic fratty look in
[SPEAKER_00]: know where the way to put him.
[SPEAKER_00]: He and Sierra are involved all throughout season eight and into the fall and winter after that season.
[SPEAKER_00]: Season nine, they are not seeing each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: They kind of have this massive falling out west went to the press between season eight and season nine and just was a major fucking douchebag loser about everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Something I actually really appreciated about
[SPEAKER_00]: the rest of the cast songs west in summer house was how they never downplayed the significance of Sierra and West's relationship release the women didn't I can't speak for the men
[SPEAKER_00]: They never downplayed the significance of Sierra and West's connection relationship, the impacts that it had on her, the amount of pain that the ending of that caused her, despite the fact that it was not like a long-term committed serious relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: They never, you know, downplayed it or were like, you can't feel the way you feel because the relationship wasn't like this or it wasn't like that or, you know, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I see people online, throughout this whole thing being like, oh, well, Sierra and West were never even like official, official, the way that you would expect it to be for her to have like a monopoly on who gets to date him in the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think those people are actually fucking idiots.
[SPEAKER_00]: and like the idea that the only way to represent having a significant and like
[SPEAKER_00]: altering relationship with someone is to have a very traditional marked and labeled romantic relationship with someone for X amount of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think that's really weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a weird way to view it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's obviously not something that I agree with.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that labels are the things that make something deep and significant and important to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Anyways, West is
[SPEAKER_00]: He, he does give Tom Schwartz energy where he is kind of pathetic and he kind of flies under the radar.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's not like outwardly arranging asshole in the way that Kyle is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you kind of don't spot him at first because he's more slie about the ways that he's strange and severely non-committal and just like a player.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now I went on a rant about this on Patreon last week as well, but I realized that I know one of West's friends and let me just confirm the company that he keeps also not too good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Truly the worst man I've ever met in my entire life in his inner circle.
[SPEAKER_00]: So once I put that together, I was like, holy.
[SPEAKER_00]: This shit is crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: This shit is getting crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so going back to the timeline of it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the timeline is like highly contested, and we don't really have the clear image of what the official timeline is yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is sort of just like the general public one that we're operating off of right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So Amanda and Kyle announced their divorce in January.
[SPEAKER_00]: Late February, early March, I think it was actually on my birthday, March 5th.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me just remind you all, where there started to be some major rumors online circulating that West and Amanda
[SPEAKER_00]: were spotted out together holding hands and that they may or may not have had some something sneaky happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, also, to catch us up to season 10, the most recent season that is currently airing but filmed last summer, Sierra and West were trying to build a friendship throughout most of the season and then towards the end, unlike literally the last weekend, they do end up making out and it was sort of unclear how things were going to progress there if they were going to circle the walk on that or what was going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's how the season ends.
[SPEAKER_00]: The season also ends, we're seeing sort of the end of Amanda and Kyle's relationship, and she's really struggling with that in Sierra.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, has been a down-ass bitch for her this whole entire time.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's this one scene at the end of the season where they're all saying goodbye to the house and goodbye to each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: And Sierra and Amanda are both crying and they hug each other, and there's like, I love you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love you so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: truly just like a wonderful capture of the power and strength that you get from your female friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it is, yeah, just it pisses me off to see where things have been taken since then.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Pyronamanda announced their divorce in January.
[SPEAKER_00]: These rumors start heavily circulating in February and March.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amanda's denying everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: West is denying everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: West goes on watch what happens live and like mid to late March.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, denies everything on watch what happens live.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then on March 31st, West and Amanda put out a joint statement together on Instagram being like,
[SPEAKER_00]: You we just want to clear the air like yes, there's like a budding something developing here and yada yada Whatever it was in the same go look it up actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll read it to you right now So again, this is Amanda and West statement that they're putting out Amanda is one of Seaguer's best friends West is Seaguer's X and West and Kyle
[SPEAKER_00]: Amanda's very recent ex-husband are also close friends because they've all been doing somewhere house together for years at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what the statement said.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen the growing online speculation, so while this is still very new, we wanted to provide some clarity.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was never our intention to purposefully hide anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: Given the complicated relationship dynamics involved in the scrutiny that comes with being on a reality show, we needed a little space to process things privately before speaking on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've shown up for each other as friends over the years through all the highs and lows, and what's developed recently was the last thing either we expected.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our connection grew out of a genuine longstanding friendship, which made it especially important for us to approach this with care.
[SPEAKER_00]: As our feelings evolved, we wanted to take time to understand exactly what we were feeling.
[SPEAKER_00]: We also recognize that this has had an impact beyond just us and never wanted our actions to cause any hurt or be perceived as careless.
[SPEAKER_00]: We truly appreciate the understanding and respect as we navigate this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So notice how there was no apologies there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just save that for later.
[SPEAKER_00]: So after they put out that statement, they start feeling like, OK, we can be more like bold and brazen about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're fully out at a baseball game, like making out in the stands on camera, out in the bouton all of New York, like shit is everywhere at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: and the season 10 of Summer House is airing at the exact same time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now that people know this is happening, people are really investigating with a fine tooth comb, all of what they're watching in Summer House, because people seem to believe that perhaps this Western Amanda connection started before they are saying it did.
[SPEAKER_00]: they are saying that no cheating was involved whatsoever, not that that's even the main issue here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me be so clear.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't necessarily think that this whole scandal is interesting because it may or may not have included cheating.
[SPEAKER_00]: I for one think the worst betrayal on this is the friendship betrayal between Amanda and Sierra.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm less involved in the, like, potential cheating argument of all of this because I don't think that it changes the worst part of what this scandal is, which is the friendship betrayal of it all, but people are, you know, digging through this footage being like, oh, they're very touchy feeling with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: this seems like more than a friendship.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it wasn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle has said that there's been rumors circulating about West and Amanda says June of last year.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sierra says that she started getting suspicious of it in January of this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: They said on the reunion stage that they did not kiss for the first time until end of February beginning of March after which they both continued to lie to Sierra, to Kyle, to the world publicly before putting out the statement at the end of March.
[SPEAKER_00]: They also said,
[SPEAKER_00]: that they never had sex before the statement went live now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I personally think this is a big load of bullshit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know when the timeline officially started and again I don't really fucking care but what I can tell you is this.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no gigaty goddamn way.
[SPEAKER_00]: This fucking idiot, this loser, West Wilson, this non-committal fucking rando.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no way that he's putting out a joint statement like publicly attaching himself to a woman after exchanging just kisses.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's just no way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that that's what's happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't buy it for a second.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that they're trying to separate themselves so much from the idea that there was a and a overlap.
[SPEAKER_00]: with Amanda's marriage with Kyle and also from the idea that they were lying for a long period of time because Amanda and Sierra had texted and Sierra had asked like is anything happening like is there any truth to these rumors and Amanda vehemently denied that and that was in early March that was on my birthday I believe is one of those texts works changed um so my opinion my like
[SPEAKER_00]: If I'm putting on my detective cap and really digging into this, I'm thinking that Amanda and West are trying to make it seem like they lied for a small amount of time and that what they were lying about was just a kiss.
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't a big deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was just like a bloody friendship and we kissed a handful of times.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if it's just a bloody friendship and you kissed a handful of times, I don't know that you're putting out a joint statement being like neither one of us ever expected this.
[SPEAKER_00]: and now you're together, question mark, or you're not, and you're just like casually seeing each other, you're willing to blow up your whole life for this, whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's kind of neither here nor there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, let's talk about what I actually want to talk about, which is the friendship betrayal that's happening, which there's no timeline needed to verify how horrible this is to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the worst part of all of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sierra is one of your best friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: You were with Sierra through the entire relationship that she had with West.
[SPEAKER_00]: You saw how much that impacted her, how heartbroken she was over this guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: you saw them vaguely reconnect and start to feel comfortable together again at the end of season ten.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just saw a preview for next week's episode of In the City, which is like the spin off of summer house that they're now starting.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on season one now, but it was filmed in the fall after season ten of summer house.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there was a clip from next week's episode where it's Amanda Sierra and West all like out to eat at a picnic table somewhere holding hands.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amanda knows all the ways that West has hurt Sierra, all the history that they have together.
[SPEAKER_00]: The lengths that she has gone to try to move forward to protect and preserve the like group vibe of the summer house, she knows all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because they're good friends and Sierra was a really good and present friend to her throughout the deterioration of her own marriage truly like a ride or die friend and that was obvious on the show And at the reunion a man does defense for choosing to go after one of her friends exes
[SPEAKER_00]: And not just any ex, an ex that was like pretty emotionally significant and in recent history in the last two years.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, Amanda just got divorced no more than five months ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the reunion, Amanda's defense for this is to be like, Oh, like, I couldn't help it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't help who you have feelings for, like, I didn't expect it to just happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: And like, you can't control it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And thank God for Lindsey Hubbard because Lindsey immediately was like, Yes, you fucking can.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you fucking can.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we are in our 30s.
[SPEAKER_00]: We are fully grown adults.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it is totally possible and expect it when you were a grown adult person.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you catch yourself, developing feelings for your friends, one of your best friends, ex-boyfriends, in your ex-husband's friends, that you should probably just shut that shit down.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that is how most adults would approach that and that's how you should approach that if you really care about your fucking friend Or have any respect for your ex husband as well not that I even care about defending Kyle at all
[SPEAKER_00]: but obviously he plays a role in this as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't imagine sitting there looking at a woman that has been nothing but a good friend to you and honest to God in your brain trying to do gymnastics to make sense of why you would
[SPEAKER_00]: throw away a relationship like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: A writer, a writer, a friend, why you would throw that away for a man that you've seen treat your friend like shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the other part of it, which I you see this a lot when people are like the other woman and they know they're the other woman and they expect the person that they are involved in this affair with to leave their girlfriend leave their
[SPEAKER_00]: and come date them and be loyal to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's never how it fucking goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot stand when people knowingly witness someone treating someone like shit and then somehow think to themselves, oh but they wouldn't do that to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like you think there's something different about you that puts you on this pedestal that's just above it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh Westwood treats Sierra like that, but he wouldn't treat me like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's really hard
[SPEAKER_00]: not to see all of this, and not acknowledge the role that race plays in this conversation, specifically which women West chooses to publicly claim versus which ones he doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because additionally, at this reunion, this was crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was revealed that the other part of this
[SPEAKER_00]: had a girlfriend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whew, I believe they said her name was Mia, and she was actually mentioned on West episode of Watch What Happens Live that he did in like mid to late March, because he was wearing a tie that she had made him.
[SPEAKER_00]: When this was brought up on the reunion, West was like, oh, I mean, like, we were seeing each other like loosely.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like, that's all it was.
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone else in the room was like, that's not what we heard.
[SPEAKER_00]: We heard that you guys were exclusive.
[SPEAKER_00]: That you were exclusively dating this woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then all of a sudden a week later, after denying it to everyone, denying it to all of us, denying it to her, denying, denying, denying.
[SPEAKER_00]: You come out and you put a joint statement out with Amanda, like the two of you are like locked in with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: So as if there isn't enough mask going on, there's actually another woman involved in this whole thing that has also been wronged by West.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who he sits there publicly being like, oh, well, like it wasn't even serious, like wasn't even that serious to me, which is the same thing that he did to Sierra where he was like, oh, it's clear that like she just took things a lot more seriously than I did and like I get it like she can't be casual with the way that I can't be like it was always just casual to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot fucking stand.
[SPEAKER_00]: The bastardization and absolute crutch, the word casual, has become indating in terms of just allowing people to justify treating people as disposable in their lives.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sierra came into your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: You used her as an emotional crutch.
[SPEAKER_00]: You poured into her.
[SPEAKER_00]: You let her believe that something was being built there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You made out with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: You slept with her.
[SPEAKER_00]: You confided in her.
[SPEAKER_00]: She confided in you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You built a whole emotional relationship with this woman and then you have the audacity never engulfed and be like, oh, but it was like casual to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was never that serious to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that we're like best friends and we hook up and make out and like share a really deep emotional connection, but like you're not my girlfriend.
[SPEAKER_00]: So so
[SPEAKER_00]: So what?
[SPEAKER_00]: What the fuck are we doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not casual.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, hey, quick thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not fucking casual.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's nothing casual about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: All you're doing is cost playing a relationship while finding your way out, finding your get out of jail free cards that you can put your hands up and skirt out of responsibility the second that you very clearly disrespect someone.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, well, I wasn't required to be XYZ because I'm not your boyfriend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, yes, you do owe people that you're intimate with, emotionally or physically, respect, regardless of what the label on that relationship is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't believe a label changes a goddamn thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he also made some comment at the reunion about how he and Sierra's relationship was always more emotional than it was physical, and like in the fall they didn't hook up or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: and using that as some kind of explanation for why it actually was in a big deal even though we saw them kiss in the last episode of summer house of the season like oh, it's actually not a big deal that I did this because like Sierra and I like she might have slept over my apartment a couple times but like there was it was always more of an emotional connection and
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, I'm not the biggest Lindsey Hubbard fan, but thank God for her because she was over there on her side of the couch being like, hey, so West, what is more, what holds more weight a deeply intense emotional connection or a sexual connection?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's what's like more serious for his more casual walked him right into a court and he's like, uh, I guess I guess the emotional one said all of 15 words during this reunion, by the way, I can't stand this motherfucker.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot stand him.
[SPEAKER_00]: So not only was Amanda choosing to go after a man.
[SPEAKER_00]: that is one of her best friends, exes, and her ex-husbands, good friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's already so many conflicts of interest here, but she wasn't even choosing to jeopardize all those relationships for commitment, for loyalty, for anything of any kind, she jeopardized
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hate to say it.
[SPEAKER_00]: but this is not shocking to me because this is pretty much exactly what Amanda did at the beginning of her relationship with Kyle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, it is a hard watch, but to me, this is almost solidified summer house, particularly Amanda's arc on summer house as like a giant warning of what happens when you completely self abandoned in pursuit of male approval.
[SPEAKER_00]: I truly think you have to have a very troubling relationship with yourself to choose to give up a friend like Sierra in pursuit of a man that you could find three dozen of at any NYU bar in the city.
[SPEAKER_00]: And part one of the reunions with Sierra hitting Amanda with some harsh words though I think that they were well deserved given how she's been treated.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, with her being like, West just needs someone who is going to be passive and make not even attempt to course correct him or stand up for themselves, whatever, like he's looking for someone to be a door mad essentially and Amanda seems to be exactly that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Godspeed to that, maybe it will work out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think Sierra is entitled to all of her rage.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that she can say whatever the fuck she wants to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't imagine how heartbroken she is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am eager to hear more because it seemed clear based on the footage they showed the reunion, particularly the phone call between
[SPEAKER_00]: Kyle Lindsay and all the other cast when they were filming the in the city Confessionals they showed the start of the reunion.
[SPEAKER_00]: That phone call made me seem like all of the cast Nose a lot more that hasn't even been discussed yet, and I am just Waiting with baited breath to get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just sucks to watch.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm always gonna hate seeing anyone abandon friends for a man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Especially when he is Someone who's been a proven loser to one of your friends like there's just so many layers of like what the Why it's always gonna be upsetting to me, but I think part one of this reunion was
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, particularly upsetting because Western Amanda came in rolling their eyes, um, not being particularly receptive to anyone, uh, not very apologetic for what's happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think that there's room for people to, fuck up and then apologize and move forward differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's obviously not the route they chose to take with this reunion I think Amanda has completely lost her friendship with Sierra after all of this and it's just like what a shame all of this all of this for what you really think he's going to treat you differently it it's hard to watch because it's like
[SPEAKER_00]: This was kind of the same thing that happened with Kyle in a way, where I felt like all of season one, and season two, was just a man, basically being the only woman that stuck around long enough to like wrangle Kyle into a relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: She stuck around and put up with so much bullshit.
[SPEAKER_00]: shrunk herself into something so small and manageable that finally she got what she wanted, which was a relationship with Kyle.
[SPEAKER_00]: But at what cost?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because look how that progressed.
[SPEAKER_00]: He never became the man that she wanted him to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: He never stopped partying, staying out late, drinking.
[SPEAKER_00]: He never became more of an adult, less of a menace.
[SPEAKER_00]: He was the same person he always was from the start to the finish of that relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you would think since she just got out of that kind of
[SPEAKER_00]: that she would have learned something and that she wouldn't be looking to go into another kind of non-exclusive relationship with a man who clearly does not give a single solitary fuck
[SPEAKER_00]: about committing himself to a woman and being loyal and she's going to sit there and not her head as he's talking about the other woman he was seeing at the time like she was like oh yeah and it was fine with it and I was cool with that I was fine with sacrifice and all of these relationships that truly meant something to me just to like make out with my friends acts.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's the point?
[SPEAKER_00]: There are sincerely thousands of other men that you could have dated in New York City and you picked the one that you weren't supposed to have.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't fathom it, there's no, there's no, it makes no fucking sense to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot, I'll never understand people like this, people who prioritize men and relationships with men over their friendships with other women.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't wrap my brain around it, I never will and think fucking good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank fucking God, I never will.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always been someone that valued friendship about literally all else.
[SPEAKER_00]: I will be this way for the rest of my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And truly, it's miserable to me friends of people who aren't.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's miserable to be friends with people who are like friends a second to the men I'm dating, always.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, it's not fun to be around.
[SPEAKER_00]: So do I personally think this is going to end well?
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: I unfortunately think that it kind of seems like Amanda has to circle the block on this lesson and learn it again.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I hope that she does, but it sucks that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so many relationships are being just completely destroyed in the process.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if and how somewhere else continues after this, like, it kind of is, it's not similar to scandal in many ways, but it is similar in, like, the gravity and, like, how it's fucking up the house dynamics.
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think that a lot of them still have more root friendships with each other outside of the people involved in all of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe they can survive it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think Vanderpump, not only was scandal happening, but all of them hated each other for separate reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think it kind of fell apart for more than just the scandal of all of it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's the last thing I'm going to say about this though.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't agree with the internet's commitment to flattening these stories and making them so that there is never any possibility for true redemption and like evolution.
[SPEAKER_00]: And obviously we're not there.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is all happening real time, but some people need a reminder
[SPEAKER_00]: that reality TV is here for our entertainment.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, these people are opting in to showing us parts of their lives, comment on it, giggle about it, share your opinions on the types of relationship dynamics and problems that they bring to the surface.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I love reality TV because I love
[SPEAKER_00]: Being able to comment on this stuff because really what it turns into is like we just had a big conversation about Loyalty in Friendship and what that means and What it means to self abandon when you date and accepting the bare minimum ignoring red flags like where that gets us We have a big conversation about this through the lens of summer house.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very entertaining.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love doing this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously we do the pump cast now That's what the entirety of the pump cast is
[SPEAKER_00]: It's talking about various conflicts, relationship dynamics, potential situations through the lens of people on reality TV.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great mode of commentary.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love listening to people talk about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love talking about it myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people should talk about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what entertainment is for.
[SPEAKER_00]: Agree, disagree, support, don't support, have your opinions, be loud about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love all of it clearly.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I think is weird is people who choose to go to the social media platforms of these people and leave weird comments.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have something to say about the situation, if you have something to say about the Kaileman, the West Sierra of it all, don't be doing nothing from an anonymous account and don't be doing anything directly to these people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go talk about it on your own pages.
[SPEAKER_00]: go tweet about it, go write about it on Substack, do whatever you need to do wherever your medium is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go make a TikTok video, whatever it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do not be in these people's comments, sections, writing and saying shit.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: I even thought it was weird the way people reacted to like page disorder, but for example, who was a former member of summer house and a really close friend to Amanda.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was one of Amanda's bridesmaids in her wedding.
[SPEAKER_00]: and when all of this stuff broke pages, obviously, are also a really good friend to Sierra.
[SPEAKER_00]: So she was kind of someone who had relationships to both of the women that are involved here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you had people bombarding page.
[SPEAKER_00]: with comments on her page, being like, I can't believe you haven't spoken up about this yet, like, duh, duh, duh, like, I can't believe you haven't publicly said anything, like, you are duh, duh, duh, all these mean adjectives because you haven't said anything publicly.
[SPEAKER_00]: As if it's like something that Paige would have to make a public statement about, I think that's fucking crazy, these are her actual friends, her actual real-life friends, she is obviously having conversations behind the scenes about this, and I think she should, I think that she should obviously talk to fucking Sierra about it, see what she needs, and I also think that she should talk to Amanda, because my belief in situations like this person a person, if Amanda was my friend,
[SPEAKER_00]: And my friend did this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would think it was part of my job as a friend to like wake them up a little bit and be like all this for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, like you have to navigate that with your friend on your own, but people who are like, I need you to make a public statement in support of Sierra right now, which I can assume based on everything I know about page having watched the show and listen to her podcast where she's going to fall on the matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: She is staunchly in support of Sierra and all of this, but like the idea that Paige should like Block a man does number and never speak to her ever again And if she does speak to her ever again that she's gonna be a bad person for it like I actually think that Paige should also talk to Amanda And if she decides that she can't move forward in the friendship, which I think would be completely fair I think about like if I was in if I was in a situation where I was a page
[SPEAKER_00]: And on one side, I have Ashley.
[SPEAKER_00]: And on the other side, I have another one of my best friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: And someone did Ashley Superdirty, there is no universe where I would continue being friends with the person who did Ashley that wrong, no shot, but it wouldn't end without a fucking conversation, that's evil, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And also I believe in redemption and that people can change and be different and I think that everyone should have the opportunity to prove that they have learned and can do better and whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: At the end of the day, these are not situations that impact the audience.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fun to comment on them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's fun to get into it all and be like, oh my god, what the hell is?
[SPEAKER_00]: What the hell that?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's entertainment.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are a lot of reality TV fans that take it way too far.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're in these people's comment sections.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're DMing them.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on anonymous accounts.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're being fucking weird about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: comment on the material in a normal way on your own accounts, not directly speaking to these people, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mind your business.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not for you to like crack the gavl on someone like page to sort of be like,
[SPEAKER_00]: you have where is your statement like pages need to put out a fucking statement these are her real life friends don't be weird do not be fucking weird so anyways that's the summer house of it all for now i can't believe we get two more parts of this reading i'll probably mention a little something after the part three of their union because i just i i've been enthralled
[SPEAKER_00]: By all of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love reality TV.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love being able to Witness and examine the human experience through reality TV.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's truly so much fun And anybody who thinks that reality TV isn't like a completely intellectual form of media is ridiculous
[SPEAKER_00]: Because like that's why it's not only is it just entertaining for like the drama of it all But it's like we get to have so many interesting conversations through observing these relationship dynamics and that is What's so exciting and interesting to me personally just be fucking normal about it do it on your own account get out those fucking DMs That's my take on that
[SPEAKER_00]: Alright, let's get into some of these audience submissions.
[SPEAKER_00]: As a reminder, there is an audience submission box where you can submit any topic that's been on your heart and mind that week, requests for advice, and by the assholes, whatever perspective or thoughts that you're looking to get at a me, just put it on in that box and maybe I will read it out on the show.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm 30 and I was seeing a man who is 57 for about six weeks.
[SPEAKER_00]: He made me feel really, really loved and special up until a week ago, his wife of 20 years caught us at their regular hotel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been all over the place in my head.
[SPEAKER_00]: I trusted him, so I've told him basically everything about my life from past relationships to my finances.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am so shocked about all of this still, so I've been playing golf and fishing with him over the week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it just makes me feel happy to be doing things with him even though he did us dirty.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, I am saying some nasty things to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he doesn't seem to mind, and tries to reassure that we will be okay and happy again.
[SPEAKER_00]: Say what?
[SPEAKER_00]: What the fuck am I reading?
[SPEAKER_00]: Over the weekend, I've been with my best friend, and she's telling me to stop contacting him.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's so angry at what he's done, which is fair, but I've been talking to him on Snapchat still, and showing him that I went to the nightclubs, got my nails done, and now it seems like he's changed his tone.
[SPEAKER_00]: He has lost his wife, maybe has to sell his house, even though her name isn't in the trust with that house.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I need to be friendly, so he doesn't do anything bad because he's now losing everything.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might not like what I'm about to say.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, you're really great for putting this in the box.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I'm about to rip you one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm about to rip you one, sister, because what the hell?
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I just read with my own two eyes?
[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate your best friend was like stop contacting him and I'm angry at what he's done, but what about what you've done?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can we talk about that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I am...
[SPEAKER_00]: As anti-cheating, as I am, as like fuck the cheater itself, I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also fuck the other woman when she appears to know exactly what's going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Other woman unknowingly, no fault.
[SPEAKER_00]: You didn't fucking know.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you know better, you have to do better.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't tell if you knew before the reveal or not, if you're meeting up at hotels, I would assume that maybe you had an inkling, but at the very least, you know now.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know now that he's a cheater that he had a wife the whole time that you were the other woman and you were still maintaining your connection with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because you think you're different, you're continuing to hang out with him, going golfing and fishing, which by the way sounds horrible.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even though he did us dirty.
[SPEAKER_00]: Baby, there is no us.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no us.
[SPEAKER_00]: There was never any us.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is a married man.
[SPEAKER_00]: He had a wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are the other woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are the side chick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think you won't do this to you too?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how to tell you this.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've known this man for a month and a half.
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't know him that well.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's basically a stranger.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we are agreeing to continue dating a married man, because why?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then at the very end, we feel bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's losing his wife and his house, and I'm just like, worried about him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, he made those choices.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a 57-year-old fucking grown adult man.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, when you cheat on your wife, she leaves you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ah, when you cheat on your wife, she leaves you, and maybe you do also lose the house that you've shared together, because that's what happens when you lie to people, and betray people, and break promises that you've made.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actions have consequences.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let him get his, he ordered this.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's literally getting exactly what he ordered.
[SPEAKER_00]: Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel bad for him.
[SPEAKER_00]: and you need to wake up a little bit with peace and love, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for being here, and also what is going on?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we can't be knowingly engaging with married men and then when we find out having any other reaction other than fuck you and fuck this, because she deserves better than that, and so the fuck do I?
[SPEAKER_00]: I cannot fathom why anyone would have a different reaction to learning that you've been seeing a married man,
[SPEAKER_00]: You should be crying.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should be heartbroken about this.
[SPEAKER_00]: You should feel really bad and guilty about what's going on and The kind of hurt you've caused another woman But instead you're concerned about going golfing and fishing with this loser and comforting him through his own fucking Stop he's 57 your 30 he knows better and so do you knock it off That's my advice with peace and love with peace peace and love, okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: Woo!
[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, Maddie.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the pods so much.
[SPEAKER_00]: My question is, how do I bring up that phobia to a group of skinny women?
[SPEAKER_00]: For context, I moved in with my boyfriend in a new state about a year and a half ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: My boyfriend and all of his new friends are fit in skinny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm the only plus-sized person in the group.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was at a girl's night and one of the women started crying saying she looked obese and so fat and all the camping pictures from that weekend My boyfriend and I weren't at the camping trip because we were out of the state and I felt bad for her and wanted to be understanding of body Confidence issues, but also I'm easily four times larger than this woman and
[SPEAKER_00]: So it felt like, if you feel like this about yourself, what do you think about me?
[SPEAKER_00]: Anytime weight or body in which comes up, the women all say how much they struggle with being fat and I never know what to say, any advice would help.
[SPEAKER_00]: My response to this really depends on like the character of the people we're talking about because here's what I'll say.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that everybody, everybody.
[SPEAKER_00]: thin fat whatever you look like.
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody has some level of fat phobia to confront within themselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is always more work to be done.
[SPEAKER_00]: That said, I don't feel particularly encouraged at the
[SPEAKER_00]: self-awareness or like spatial group awareness capacity of thin people who complain about being fat in front of a fat person.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't personally fuck with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always found that to be kind of strange and to me seems to indicate a level of awareness on the topic that is like
[SPEAKER_00]: what I would expect for someone of my age.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know how old you are, but I think that in navigating friendships with people who have poor body image for whatever reason,
[SPEAKER_00]: I can talk all the live long day about my experience and like share with my friends that don't understand the fat experience what it is like to be fat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have had to gently correct people in the past when they have said things that wrote me the wrong way or just wasn't particularly hitting sometimes people mean well and I think I had a lot more grace for this when I was younger.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think now being almost 30, I really don't have any time for like a thin person that's going to come to me and complain about being fat.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: rude.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's rude and like purposefully kind of tone deaf and not really reading the room or the situation at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that I'm going to be the one to talk to you about that or to say that around.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a really inappropriate and I at this point am more concerned about making sure that I'm in safe spaces and around people that support and love me and I don't really feel like having to teach everyone in my life how to respect me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of just want to be friends with people who who get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so while I think there is room for educating people on the fat experience and calling out Fatphobia Awareness a Seryte to me, it's a spectrum.
[SPEAKER_00]: What you described to me seems like
[SPEAKER_00]: I, again, I don't know how old you are, maybe your early 20s, in which case I, I'd feel differently.
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're around my age and your friends are having these conversations in my head, I'd be like, we are just way too old.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we talking about our bodies like that, and I would kind of, I would feel like it was difficult to be friends with people like that, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really don't think it should be the job of fat individuals to have to like,
[SPEAKER_00]: fight to mold everyone in their life to be more respectful and considerate towards them.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really not hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: This has been like such a widespread public mainstream conversation for years.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember talking about this when I was 15 years old.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, forgive me, for not being as interested in the idea of making all of my relationships a perpetual having to explain myself in order to be fully seen and understood kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just personally am over that, and I think the resources are out there, the information is out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: If someone is damn near 30 years old, still choosing to
[SPEAKER_00]: live in a thin body and be like, oh, I'm so fat.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sort of looks so fat and horrible and using fat as a synonym for bad and like crying about being fat to a fat person like I just that's just it's beneath me at this point and it's kind of above my pay grade, you know, you'd have to pay me a lot of money to put up with all of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But let me assume a different perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me assume that maybe you are a decade younger than me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe it's not everyone that says things like that are acts that way and you have some people who are more respectful and understanding towards you and seem to already have like
[SPEAKER_00]: a desire to understand the fat perspective and to have some type of consideration about you in these conversations.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have people in the circle that are like that, I think it's always worth it to have conversations that expand their understanding of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And honestly, I don't even think it's like some big scary thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like when I talk to my friends about my experiences as a fat person, I've never thought that it was like, uh, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I've never really felt like when I look at my best friends that I've had to, like beg them to see me or like understand,
[SPEAKER_00]: the stories I'm telling them or like the way things have affected me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always confided in my friends when something happens when someone was mean to me about my body when we were younger or even now if I read a nasty comment or if it's totally disconnected from other people it's just a thought or reflection I'm having inside my own head something I'm grappling with in therapy like I'm a I'm sure it's not lost on the audience here that I'm a pretty open book.
[SPEAKER_00]: and I'll talk about anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I can fight in my friends about all these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was never a point of being like, oh well, we've never talked about body image with each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never talked about my more vulnerable moments with body image with these people.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like they've seen me at every more challenging moment I've ever had with my body image.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never gone through anything alone.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've always had friends to confide in and support me.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they've seen me.
[SPEAKER_00]: at every single one of those moments in all of my reflections, the things that people have said to me, the ways I've been treated like my friends have seen all of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think a lot of my friends ability to meet me with so much grace and also to not show up and be that phobic themselves is because they've like bore witness to my life over, you know, decades of time at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so ultimately my advice at the end of the day is like just share your life with people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Share in your experience is be vulnerable.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think you necessarily have to have a sit down conversation where you're like, this is a fat phobia 101 from my skinny friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's more about like letting people in to your experience.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how your experience in your body impacts the perspective you have on body image and like the world at large, you know, yes, I've been talking about body image on the internet for the last 16 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can imagine how much my friends have heard me talk about body image offline.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this is not only a topic I'm passionate about on the internet.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's also something I think about all the time offline and have discussed with my friends since I was a teenager.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's just helpful when you treat it less like some big scary thing that you're scared to bring up.
[SPEAKER_00]: And more just like a part of your lived experience that you're allowed to bring up at any given time because that's part of you and part of your life and your friends should want.
[SPEAKER_00]: to understand you better and be a better friend to you, better support to you and whatever way they can and whatever that looks like.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I do think it really depends on like the level of fatphobic language we're talking here because in general, I'm not like encouraging fat people to go hang out with people who are fat fobs and like try to make them not fatphobic.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, usually I'm like, that's not a battle I want you to fight.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want you to like feel totally embraced and loved and supported by the people that love you and yeah, I don't I don't know that hanging out with a bunch of thin people who are adults that complain about being so fat and obese.
[SPEAKER_00]: and front of a fat person is it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's it for me personally, but there's a spectrum to these things and only you know the exact dynamic of your front group.
[SPEAKER_00]: So take everything that I've said with a grain of salt.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm gonna throw it on over to the post show on Patreon if you'd like to keep these good vibes going.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, the Patreon is the number one way to support the growth of this podcast and all of the creative endeavors that we're trying to do over years.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you like this show, if you like the pump cast, if you want to support, please join the Patreon.
[SPEAKER_00]: Be sure to follow the podcast at emotionally online pod on both Instagram and TikTok.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can follow me.
[SPEAKER_00]: at Maddie Drawspack, and with that, I will see you for next week's sleep over, Friday, same time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'm good.
[SPEAKER_00]: See you there.