[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm telling you what you're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're less than into the Elder Scrolls.
[SPEAKER_00]: Doorcasts!
[SPEAKER_00]: Either you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I'll be skipping rope with your entrails.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hata.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is the Elder Scrolls' Lordcast.
[SPEAKER_04]: Your source for lore, and so much more.
[SPEAKER_04]: Adventures welcome back to the Elder Scrolls lore cast you've got me Tom and no lotus this week he was lost in one of the realms of oblivion somewhere.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know what happened but taking this place we've got our patrons actually he's he's adding it up right now with a sick child so he's taken this week off but the patrons have shown up to fill his shoes his
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't, I don't want to make a joke about glass armor shoes, maybe?
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know, but welcome back, Rob and Falcon and Mintaka, you guys are here because we, well, it's not only the end of the month and you guys are patrons that you show up every month, but we are talking about not the way that we want Elder Scroll 6 to be because who knows there's a Xbox big announcement thing coming up in like the next week and there's a very small chance that we get some sort of update or trailer for Elder Scroll 6.
[SPEAKER_04]: But we're going to talk about what we would do to actually ruin Elder Scrolls 6.
[SPEAKER_04]: What are the things that if you were, maybe you were somebody that was like a plant on the inside and you were a game developer working for Bethesda.
[SPEAKER_04]: What things would you want to implement into the game in order to make it fail?
[SPEAKER_04]: What are the worst things that you could possibly do to the game?
[SPEAKER_04]: and I think we're going to come up with some really fun ideas, but welcome back all of you.
[SPEAKER_04]: So glad to have you all here.
[SPEAKER_04]: Um, here, let's kick this off.
[SPEAKER_04]: Who would like to share an idea?
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got Rob.
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got Falcon.
[SPEAKER_04]: We've got Mintaka.
[SPEAKER_04]: I know Falcon, you throughout an idea of Mintaka.
[SPEAKER_04]: We were joking about things, Rob.
[SPEAKER_04]: You, Rob won and talked about something else, but we're going to save that for a few trips.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, did I mean?
[SPEAKER_03]: But she sees a good sport and he's hearing that under the bus.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, probably want to be here.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's fine.
[SPEAKER_04]: No, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're a good sport.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're a good sport.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So Falcon, you had to, you had some terrible, some good terrible ideas.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's I guess that's the best way to phrase it.
[SPEAKER_04]: You want to share one of them?
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess to make Elder Scrolls 6 worse, expand past the 10 playable races.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, you think that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: You didn't bring this one up already.
[SPEAKER_02]: I did not.
[SPEAKER_04]: So okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is interesting because I expected to use something else, which I'm sure we'll get to at some point in the opposite.
[SPEAKER_04]: But so this is an interesting concept because this is something people talk about.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think 10 is almost already too crowded.
[SPEAKER_02]: If we try to, if they try to introduce like,
[SPEAKER_02]: be it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Just trying to fit that in through like all like the character interactions, all the lore they'd have to introduce throughout the game.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it is too much.
[SPEAKER_02]: I know they can't because they've already went to 10.
[SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't mind if they paired it down.
[SPEAKER_04]: Really, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So the way for example, is this from a developer standpoint?
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like an aside.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm always down for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously our goanians are, you know, just fall more somebody completely.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, sorry, this took place 500 years in the future and the boss, you know, we just turned out to do well.
[SPEAKER_03]: Actually, they're who at her way, because she, they're gone and we're not gonna do anything.
[SPEAKER_03]: Not a thing anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've turned them into uncharted on and they never say anything.
[SPEAKER_04]: These traces they never existed, whatever happened to them, who knows, they're just gone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or like in the far future, like maybe a lot of the human races have interbred to the extent that they no longer consider themselves separate, like, and, you know, they can't be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, because you didn't used to be able to play an imperial as a playable race.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it works.
[SPEAKER_01]: It works.
[SPEAKER_04]: It works.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they were just like, you differentiate between Imperials and Nords, like, weirdo.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: That could be weird.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, I want to dig into Falcon.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to dig into your perspective on this.
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you saying one or both of these things that it would be, it would, it would blow the game from the development standpoint.
[SPEAKER_04]: So now you have even more different voice lines and interactions and subplots and things like that, or that from the user standpoint, there's just now too many options and that's just too much.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think user side and lore is the bigger issue development, you know, if they've had since 2011, they they can keep doing work, I don't they they'll keep going now, I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I don't I
[SPEAKER_04]: So that was too much.
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys agree with that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you think that that would is that because this is tends to be the sort of thing a lot of people Talk about or ask about they're like if I was to add a race.
[SPEAKER_04]: I want to be able to be a CL for I want to be able to be I don't know an acavary load or a slow nurse, you know something I mean, I I fully disagree.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think most people will always be asking to add more and I mean, there's the idea of like what people want what people think they want and those are different things Yeah, but yeah
[SPEAKER_03]: Everyone wants more races added to the game, but I haven't asked for.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think the argument there is what you said of a lot of people don't, I guess, know what they want.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess I say you would put it in that.
[SPEAKER_02]: It makes it a lot of times what you want will make your enjoyment of whatever be it less.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's fun, less enjoyable.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that there's one thing about people is that they definitely like their desires tend to be additive.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if they have something in the past, they don't want to get rid of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Even if it would be technically more streamlined, whatever, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: But definitely in terms of what people say or think they want, people don't like to have stuff taken away.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one thing I've learned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, and more.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and I think somebody like Todd Howard would agree with you that in many game designers, in fact, this is a conversation I see in RPG circles, I see it in MMO circles about how often times the things that the audience are asking for are actually not really beneficial to them because they don't understand the full scope of what that means and somebody like Todd has often preached this idea of
[SPEAKER_04]: we need to pair things down more and that becomes one of the complaints, you know, the evolution we've talked about this in the pre-show, the evolution of the series is one which things have consistently been streamlined and sometimes goes too far in certain directions and then people get upset that this feature is no longer available.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I would also argue that
[SPEAKER_04]: they've been right more times than they've been wrong because the series continues to grow and reaches more players which keeps it alive and that doesn't mean that every time they've done the right choice and pairing something down but sometimes it does work.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's the point, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: But you're right, like human instinct is like, no, we want more, we want more.
[SPEAKER_04]: But at some point, you run into like, it's the idea of what's the phrase, where you have so many options
[SPEAKER_01]: decision paralysis.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, decision paralysis.
[SPEAKER_04]: You run into things like that, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I can see that argument as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I sometimes have that issue myself in gaming and I've noticed it more and more is like, it older is that I'm just like, man, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I spend like an hour and a half in character creation, which like, you know, maybe you do that anyway, but sometimes when I have fewer choices, I don't overthink things as much, but
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm in the same camp.
[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, every RPG I've played in recent years, I've gone back and restarted a character to try a different race or a different class or a different build, because I'm never convinced that this is really the build I want to commit to for the next 100 hours or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: And that does become a problem, so I can totally see that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I have one pleaded boulders gate and 700 Yeah, we'll take three and seven hundred trying out and it's uh of course the human male because you have the Okay, let's turn it on, boulder.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'll spawn the boulder.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does the ultimate here.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I'm not saying to you off topic, but Baldur's getting his name after Baldur and a human male.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think this is an interesting idea to start with Falcon, who would like to share the next idea?
[SPEAKER_04]: What would you add to Elder Scrolls 6 or make sure Elder Scrolls 6 has in it if you wanted it to fail, you wanted it to be terrible.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think a great way to set it up is to like release a teeter trailer.
[SPEAKER_03]: and then just do nothing for like a decade.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh wait, that sounds too real.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So that's probably a good way to sabotage anything that you're planning from there or forward.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, we'll just get the community.
[SPEAKER_04]: You know, there's a timeline out there in the multiverse somewhere where they didn't do that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have to wonder what the conversation online is about that, about the why haven't we gotten anything?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is going on?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the one thing that's taught me from killing somebody at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Is the teaser trailer?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's kept your humanity intact.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would have hunted Lotus by this point.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the good thing he's done on the show tonight.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've been talking to you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Have an idea for something that you would add to totally what you did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think it would be really good if you could only continue the plot in certain directions if you just buy a DLC.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh man, you reach a certain point in the deep skilled and they're like, well, do you want to kill nurse or fray or whatever the equivalent situation is?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like 1199.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, you've uncovered the secret to the conspiracy.
[SPEAKER_04]: Get ready to do what you need to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to do it off in the middle of the conversation the guys like you never would have guessed it was me who and then you have to do a microtransaction.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's like a windows pop up that goes, wing up and it says to continue this quest.
[SPEAKER_04]: Please answer your credit card.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think we can spend the next hour talking about all the various ways.
[SPEAKER_03]: Capitalism as a room and it could ruin a video game, but we can probably borrow all of that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Any micro transaction situations, probably going to cause a little bit more of some minor coming from is all the issues.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: You guys are both right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, yeah, we could, we could, this whole episode.
[SPEAKER_04]: We could just go into the nuances of micro transactions and how all of that could ruin it.
[SPEAKER_04]: But I think the more interesting question then is what form of transaction, just general transaction is tolerable?
[SPEAKER_04]: Are we expecting Elder Scrolls 6 to have traditional DLC that comes out like a year later, opens up a new zone, you go do it with a new quest line, is that fine, what about the creation club stuff, do we expect maybe the DLC will be a creation club thing?
[SPEAKER_04]: Are we expecting that?
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, they've talked about how this is supposed to be.
[SPEAKER_04]: to go for a week.
[SPEAKER_03]: Backteen or are we hoping?
[SPEAKER_04]: Where is that boundary?
[SPEAKER_04]: Where is the boundary?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm expecting a lot of DLC.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm hoping that we can learn by leading by example.
[SPEAKER_03]: We're just talking about elders gay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to keep bringing up elders gay all the time.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what I do now.
[SPEAKER_03]: they just release the game, they don't charge you anything more, they charge you for the game, they gave you a whole game, and they realize after, oh, a lot of people really love this game, and they also wanted these extra things, let's throw that into the game, that they already bought, and just let them have it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, what about when it comes to large content, the way that they've done expansions in the past?
[SPEAKER_04]: Is that okay at those into the game so you're expecting that they they totally even bucked the trend that they've they started what back and more a wind And decide yeah, we're gonna just do what do we help for what do we expect I'm expecting a lot of deals Well, I think we do two to five actual deals see and then seven thousand creation club DLC for a bucked 99
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, okay, so I guess the question then is what isn't necessarily what you hope for or what you fear, but what where is the line?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is tolerable?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is what version of this do you go?
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, that's okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll pay an extra 30 bucks for this expansion.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm okay with that.
[SPEAKER_04]: or I'm okay with these smaller transactions in the content creation, you know, the club, the content, whatever that was called, I felt it in my brain again, creation club.
[SPEAKER_04]: Because I'm happy to support the modding community because they do hard work.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, where is that line for each of you?
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's start with Rob, because, like I know you're general feeling here, but what point are you willing to pay for more?
[SPEAKER_03]: It's all available on the high seas for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just good at it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you're not paying for more.
[SPEAKER_04]: So if they're like, oh, I love this game and they're like, here's the expansion.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's 30 bucks or 40 bucks.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you're like, yeah, I'm not paying you for that, but I'm gonna play it anyway.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have bought in DLC in the past.
[SPEAKER_03]: I probably would.
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't like to like publicly announce on the podcast.
[SPEAKER_03]: Hey Bethesda, go ahead and charge me every nickel and dime you can.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, no, that's not what.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I guess if there was a very story packed, like lots of content in DLC, I could see pain up to $15.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, okay, so that's your line.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's fair.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's totally fair.
[SPEAKER_04]: Ben Talka, what do you think?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I probably would feel kind of in the same boat of like I prefer DLC that is a lot of story and more stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't love little piecemeal things, although I do love my
[SPEAKER_01]: un-damageable like my my invulnerable door of in horse.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the one if you short because I don't want to be hassled by wolves and such when I'm right across the land.
[SPEAKER_03]: Well we should not expect to pay money for that.
[SPEAKER_03]: We want that in the game we don't want to pay money.
[SPEAKER_01]: horse.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to do any micro trends like little transactions.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really love buying stuff for a buck 99 here and there for a kind of just mild aesthetic things.
[SPEAKER_01]: It doesn't really appeal to me as much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like large DLCs and I'm willing to pay more for something that's significant in terms of story and lore.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like to me, it's not so much the cost as much as it is what you actually get.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I guess like the value of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I prefer bigger DLCs, so if there's going to be DLCs which I would assume, you know, given the trend, I'd expect it.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's acceptable to me if it's something.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're really, like for example, the Dragonborn DLC of Skyrim, like I thought that was a really valuable addition, just because of what it introduced.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought that had a high value in terms of what you pay for what you get.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, but I don't love like, um, kind of smaller superficial things as much.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I'd rather something that kind of dives and they work harder on it for longer.
[SPEAKER_04]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: If it has to take longer to come out, that's fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, um, I'd rather that than something like creation club personally.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that's an interesting perspective.
[SPEAKER_04]: Barky and chat asks if we think creation couple will be in it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that is there is no.
[SPEAKER_04]: We'll certainly will.
[SPEAKER_04]: 99% chance.
[SPEAKER_03]: We should have an expectation where we need to pay money in the to that for it to be useful.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think that should be something available where.
[SPEAKER_03]: People can create these interesting mod and customization to the game and just have it available for everyone to have and You know they there can be options for people to go I accept donations and some of these are oh, I will only offer this people who are willing to pay for it
[SPEAKER_03]: And those people probably just won't get as many.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, from what we know right now, modern still have the option and will have the option to either put things on the creation club store if they want to charge for things, but they can still just put them up for free.
[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, if you load up the creation club right now, there's free stuff on there.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're like, there's things you can just tell me, or you could use the Nexus mods or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: And having that option totally makes sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: For me, the line is, I think, I mean, talk, I think you hit it on the head.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's the quality thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: If I want in, and I also agree with you, I don't want to spend a buck or two for like little things.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, oh, that armor looks cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll spend two bucks on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would rather spend $15 on a massive pack.
[SPEAKER_04]: that comes with lots of different armor and weapons.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I would be more willing to spend that $15.
[SPEAKER_04]: If I know that there's like, it's like the Nintendo seal of quality, but to be like the Bethesda seal of quality, which is sure is gonna make people laugh right now.
[SPEAKER_04]: But if they were able to guarantee that this 100% works with the game, there's like, it will not bug things out, everything works and it's at the same quality that the base game came out with.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I feel better about spending that money, right, because it has it's like a stamp of quality.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, there's the real value there like I also like the one thing about the creation club that is a little weird to me personally is the sort of
[SPEAKER_01]: is that isn't it lore approved in a way like is this canon stuff or not?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I get it that they can't possibly say no it's not because they know when everyone be like all I'm not getting, you know, some people would be like well I'm never touching that but then if they say it is, that's quite the commitment to certain things.
[SPEAKER_04]: I would love to know, like on the store right now, the Skyrim one or the Fallout 4 one or whatever, I would love to know when it's a community-made thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: that it gets the lower seal of approval or something like that on it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I wish I loved that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, we know somebody talked about how mods impact the lore on the canon.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think they've had that, like your experiences your own.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but I would much rather have.
[SPEAKER_04]: Our lore master has reviewed this and it fits 100% into canon.
[SPEAKER_04]: Or...
[SPEAKER_04]: doesn't it doesn't but that's okay because if you want to play like this is an alternate reality version of this world that's my too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just save it is or not so I don't think like beat you know I'm sure that most players aren't like stressing out over whether armor is lower accurate but I guess by being on this show I'm a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bit here and fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: We get like a Kinsey scale of accuracy took the game.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, something like, oh, that's a pretty, just a as or as it is or isn't canon is fine for me.
[SPEAKER_04]: And as a guy who does a Lord podcast, that's really helpful.
[SPEAKER_04]: This is one of the reasons why I'm apprehensive to dive into extra content and even like massive mods.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's one of the reasons why I didn't play the the big update for Fallout.
[SPEAKER_04]: What was the one that based in the UK,
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll just say potentially a few rules.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, if I get immersed in that and I spend 100, 200 hours in it, and then two years from now, I go, oh yeah, this thing, and I'm like, wait a minute, that was from a mod.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's not real, like it's not canon, it's real, but it's not canon, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it can be hard to sort of like keep yourself for so long in a mindset of like, this isn't
[SPEAKER_01]: Real whatever, you know, this isn't canon right and then maybe down the line.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's contradicted.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: I see it is it is a pain your own mindset like trapped in that path of thought is Contradictory to how the law works per cellar scroll specifically because of the whole like Unreliable narrator thing and dragon breaks and oh
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I don't know enough about Fallout to say it absolutely fits in this as well, but I thought that there was a little bit more freedom in the implications of the story telling as well.
[SPEAKER_03]: But yeah, like they say, first and foremost, your experiences in the game are the most canon and then everything that you read and and right from there is secondary to that experience.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think you kind of have to approach the lore of the Elder Scrolls with a very open mind and understand that there's a lot of flexibility to it and if you're always approaching everything and how can and is this then you're kind of going about the world in the wrong way.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and that's a lot easier to do as a player than it is as somebody who's needing content to show It's going to get like people commenting on it and be like you idiot.
[SPEAKER_04]: How can you possibly do this podcast?
[SPEAKER_03]: You don't know if you're a fireball.
[SPEAKER_03]: Can I fact check this blah blah blah
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, it doesn't matter to me, but sure as someone who runs the show, you might need that fact check that something that's a that's a very small thing that's something that affects only a very small group of people compared to the majority of the players that it's really not a major issue.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just something pertinent to me.
[SPEAKER_04]: But Falcon, let's let's let's move on on you.
[SPEAKER_04]: We've we've been chatting about this for a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is there is there where is the line for you when it comes to purchasable stuff?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is okay?
[SPEAKER_04]: What is not okay?
[SPEAKER_02]: What are you doing in your spending anniversary edition and the horse armor i think are bad even though you know i bought them whatever
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, so you've on them, but you didn't like that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm trapped by Todd Howard.
[SPEAKER_02]: He, you know, sure.
[SPEAKER_02]: He owns me at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_04]: So, okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So how do you feel if Elder Scrolls six comes out and they're like, okay, a $30 expansion pack or $40 expansion pack.
[SPEAKER_04]: New zone.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's basically Dragonborn, but it's a whole new thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you cool with that?
[SPEAKER_04]: Are you buying it?
[SPEAKER_04]: You regret it?
[SPEAKER_04]: Where are you?
[SPEAKER_02]: I know it's probably not realistic because everything is so like monetized and corporate by this point, but I like the Halo 2 Halo 3 Halo 3 ODST 3 was supposed to be a DLC for 2 and they spun into I like that of like spin off.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it's so big.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just is way too big, they decided we're making it again.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like the idea of spin-offs more than games.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not going to do that because once you own Skyrim, you're in the ecosystem, you're going to buy the DLC.
[SPEAKER_02]: And they've talked about how they want to make it important was a spin off they wouldn't have sold as much as they did.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: They want this to be a platform.
[SPEAKER_04]: They've realized that skyrocket became a platform for mods and and I did a video on this like two years ago about how elder scroll six might be the last elder scrolls because it could just be like elder scrolls.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the first release is Hammerfell and the next release is Orcinium and the next release is elsewhere, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: And it's it's the single player version of what they've done with ESO where they just say that's just ESO, right?
[SPEAKER_03]: But they've just done with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: building out the world, they keep on updating the engine and it becomes something where you don't have to make another major release to get big engine updates because that's traditionally been the case, right.
[SPEAKER_04]: For in the 90s technology improved so quickly that you needed a whole new engine when you went from dagger, you know, dagger fall to Morowind or and then the engine needed big updates to get to oblivion in this
[SPEAKER_03]: instead of needing a spin-off to reset the engine and reset the game state right just add on to what we already have because we're still using the same technology anyways.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, basically since oblivion, that's what Bethesda has been doing is that they've been just modularly updating the engine for every release from Elder Scrolls and Fallout and Starfield.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so what if that just becomes a modular platform where every release just is better?
[SPEAKER_04]: But it fits in that ecosystem.
[SPEAKER_04]: And once you buy any of those releases, now you now they can have a little pop up that says, hey, have you played this yet?
[SPEAKER_04]: There might be a thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know if people will like that idea, but he's not even opposed to that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that in that different?
[SPEAKER_03]: As long as each individual purchase is enough substance to be classified as a game of its own.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's totally accessible.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think the actual modularity of an engine doesn't seem like a problem to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like updating incremental updates to the same engine across many games.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't find that to be an issue at all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, on some level, that just seems like if a good use of resources,
[SPEAKER_01]: Instead of rehashing every time, maybe that'll keep the next games from being like 15 years apart.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, which would be awesome.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, so what if we got a quote unquote new game worth of content every 4 years, but it just worked in the same launcher.
[SPEAKER_04]: What if you just launched Elder Scrolls and now you loaded into whatever you happened to have bought.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that doesn't really bother me at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: And what if it was stitched together?
[SPEAKER_04]: What if it was the equivalent of you could just keep traveling north in oblivion in Serodil and then you crossed the line and now you're in Skyrim.
[SPEAKER_04]: You didn't have to load the game.
[SPEAKER_04]: It just loaded into Skyrim.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that'd be sick as hell.
[SPEAKER_03]: That'd be very quiet.
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you have opinions on this?
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, what do you think about this?
[SPEAKER_03]: I know this is a little bit off time to pick in some ways.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, though like in launcher, like it's all the same game just adding and Call of Duty tried that and it failed it sucked.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, but Call of Duty is a try to isn't I don't see.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I know it's a separate thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, but I didn't know they tried that.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a way.
[SPEAKER_02]: The games have tried that to be like launcher every year is just in addition to be more of that like live service.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it is, it is what ESO does.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which I think we're looking for falling is if they do make it this the one launcher.
[SPEAKER_02]: It, Elder Scrolls would just be a live service.
[SPEAKER_02]: Elder Scrolls 6 or Elder Scrolls 8 or whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: Become live service at that point, fully.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I guess the rest of the details.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that is back on topic to.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: My sort of that micro transactions.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you were to do that in a live service sort of way with lots of micro transactions.
[SPEAKER_04]: Lots of pop-ups and things that are annoying.
[SPEAKER_04]: Then you absolutely were back on track.
[SPEAKER_03]: They're trying to have to be live service.
[SPEAKER_03]: So now you think about this.
[SPEAKER_02]: It also makes it disgusting and bloated.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I have it in one wanture.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because in my previous agreement, I hate going through it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Try it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's installed got like 200 something gigs.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, ESO's do in the same thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: They've had to like, yeah, it shows got it down and streamlined it, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there is that, or if it's modular still, then you just download the components that you want to be able to access.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, if they make it not live service, I'm still on board.
[SPEAKER_03]: But the moment that I see live service, I'm out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I definitely think there's a place where this goes too far and it is a bad idea.
[SPEAKER_04]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: I probably, that's, I stopped playing the Diablo games from Blizzard.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love the Diablo series so much.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the moment they introduced live service games where that was like you had, but they've always didn't had live service, but where they introduced that as the default and only, like you didn't have any offline option whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm out.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, that's what I'm done.
[SPEAKER_01]: I could not having any awful eye option would be a bad problem.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I get back on track.
[SPEAKER_01]: I kick a lot of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: If you were to ruin the game, you would add in the need for it to always be online.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, live service would be the worst.
[SPEAKER_02]: Live service would be the most continuous launcher.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think both of those go along the micro transactions, all of the 20 different DLCs.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let's also release the game every two years.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, so let's move in another direction.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let's move away from micro-transactions and live-service stuff because that's a feels pretty up.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's most people are pretty advanced grad, everyone agrees.
[SPEAKER_04]: And the people who put up with it, they put up with it because they just love the game to the point where they just put up with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: So we don't want that.
[SPEAKER_04]: What else would you add?
[SPEAKER_04]: What else would you, in order to, what's a little bit less like current capitalist predatory stuff in a little bit more video gamey?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like what what would you do with the world we do with characters?
[SPEAKER_03]: What would you do kind of or somewhere where capitalism hasn't ruined the world We were playing in space Sure Call back to the pre-show chat, sorry
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, yeah, I mean, well, I guess I would say this is technically what I would do to ruin the game, but it would actually like make people buy the game like crazy, but I think it would ruin it.
[SPEAKER_03]: And that would be uh, give a just dead pen answer to the Dwemer mystery.
[SPEAKER_04]: just answer the mystery like heck it even do it like at the very beginning of the main quest line not it's not a side quest I think everyone would buy the game if you did that but it would objectively ruin the game that might kill seven but the sales on six would be so big who cares
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: I almost don't want them to answer it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I never want them to answer.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's important that they never do.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm afraid they will, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_04]: Todd has talked about this.
[SPEAKER_04]: So this is one of the things that he's like, Yeah, we know the answer, but will it ever be released?
[SPEAKER_04]: Not at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: I work here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do enjoy that they know the answer and they're not telling.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like there is a solidified, so like if you work out enough subtext, maybe you can figure out the mystery, but we're never going to stay here, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes it a lot of stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, do we think that's real?
[SPEAKER_02]: Them saying they're, they know the answer.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think I don't know if I believe that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well let me back that up a little bit.
[SPEAKER_04]: One of the things that Lotus and I have discovered overdoing episodes, especially digging back into the earlier episodes.
[SPEAKER_04]: And looking at the old books, remember when we were going through the books of like Daggerfall and that kind of thing, there's a lot of that lore that is very foreshadowing of other things that happened in games that came out like 15 years later.
[SPEAKER_04]: So there's a lot that they established back in the late 90s when they were like solidifying the foundations of the lore that predicted a lot of the things.
[SPEAKER_04]: In fact, the series of games and the releases and the locations of those releases were telegraphed early in the in the lore.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: So answers to questions like what happened to the dweller, I think have at least the foundations of an answer if not every little nuance worked out.
[SPEAKER_04]: They have a sense of like okay, and this is what this is what happened and we're always gonna hint around this But we're also, you know, we also understand the whole unreliable narrator thing and Therefore, we're gonna have people who got it wrong who think they're confident about the answer and so we're gonna have some misdirection and things But we know officially what happened in the lore and that that allows them the
[SPEAKER_04]: agility, I don't know if that's the right word, but the flexibility to write in and around that and not necessarily ruin anything for anybody, but also still be capable of telling stories with it.
[SPEAKER_04]: That makes sense.
[SPEAKER_03]: So healthy amount of skepticism, yes, always leave room for doubt.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I'll just go six.
[SPEAKER_04]: The dwarfs all jumped in time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Parking.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the chat.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, it's just solved.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's out there now.
[SPEAKER_04]: What else, what else would you guys add to just absolutely ruin the game?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like one thing that comes to mind for me is like take out magic.
[SPEAKER_03]: So we did almost like have like a the hot tasting and I was thinking this kind of goes into that the the custom spells that Oblivion had and all that I think that introducing that is bad for if it game and I think that would be
[SPEAKER_03]: Although I guess I do think it would sell well.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the same thing as the drummer thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: I do think it would make the game worse But I do think people would buy the game more So you're saying bring back more more of the crazy spell customizations and overpowered stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: I can see the appeal of that as like the end game my character is the strongest being That known to man and I am essentially a god.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm going to start being able to like create my own spells sure but having that accessible
[SPEAKER_03]: as like just an everyday character in the middle of the game just seems absurd and it makes the game trivial and I think the game is worse for it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay yeah at some point you you like it's fun to be able to break things a little bit because it's just a single player game it's not multiplayer there doesn't need to be balance in that sort of way but there's probably a limit on creative mode and have fun that's fine but I think as an everyday game experience that should not be implemented
[SPEAKER_01]: like a default mode.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: So I think implementing that would make the game worse.
[SPEAKER_03]: However, I think there are so many people in the world that would be enthralled by that idea that it wouldn't think it's sell worse by any means.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, yes, there's so many different ways to look at that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe, yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: But wouldn't every, wouldn't most people get bored with infinite God?
[SPEAKER_04]: Pretty if it's if especially if it's like if it's you just stumble into it if it's not something you have to like go down the rabbit hole of like somebody's read it post who figured out the one little trick to allow you to have infinite magic of whatever right if it's the sort of thing we're like by the time you're level 10 you're just
[SPEAKER_04]: destroying everything because you picked fire as a spell, you know, like, yeah, and then there's no game balance there, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: It just doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_04]: There's no challenge at all, which it might as well be, I don't know, like, I don't know, one of those like Chinese mobile games where you just hold down the button and it plays for you.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's kind of where my mind's at on that.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just think it would overall trivialize the game to where there's not much point in it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm an agreement.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: So here's another one.
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you think about this?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it was from a lore perspective.
[SPEAKER_04]: The daydra interact in the world, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: There's always quest lines for different daydra and stories about people who worship them or go crazy or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the daydra are always removed and almost feel aloof.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like they don't even care or they can't intervene.
[SPEAKER_04]: except for things like Martin becoming the avatar of Akatash or that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_03]: And the nine devines, but DLC for Bolivia and whatever that was.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, the nine devines, like there's a little bit of interaction there.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what if they took that so much further, and all of a sudden it's like all of the ageera are active, just like the daydra are, and they're showing up and doing stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was thinking on like the opposite end of that before we came to the subject of the show of like I wish on like positive things for Elder Scrolls 6 would be implementing the adra in a more forward fashion but not so direct but I'm talking like they show up and walk around and they're like hey everybody we're back I would absolutely hate that I would like to have a huge and fluent speaker.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And on a functional level, on a functional level to me, that's one of the major differences between the Adrian, the Dejria.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I don't know if the Dejria are all these pure beings of great goodwill, it's just that you don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they require faith.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like that's part of it is that the Dejria don't require faith.
[SPEAKER_04]: They prove that they exist over and over again.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the Adrian, most of them, it's like, does Julie honest actually care that we, we pray to him?
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_03]: yeah yeah yeah and I do like the idea of having like the adric influences on the world be more prominent in the games like having you know a priest of acotosh be a very strong point in the game because he's a priest of acotosh not just that he happens to be one
[SPEAKER_03]: for example, you know, like having the influence be a bigger deal.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if we just flip that entirely and just said, nope, here's Zenithar right here, standing in front of us.
[SPEAKER_03]: He's running the biggest shop in the world.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right, right, right, right.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's all about working tile trade.
[SPEAKER_04]: Zenithar's I'm all.
[SPEAKER_04]: That would be you.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're all of the words.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's not M-A-U-L, it's M-A-L-L, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's the mall of Zenitha.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to search for the mall of Zenitha.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, he's got his own hot topic, stop, too.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, that would be absolutely too far.
[SPEAKER_04]: I feel like that would go too far.
[SPEAKER_04]: I had another idea to slip to my brain.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, here is the other idea.
[SPEAKER_04]: I've talked about improving the combat in Elder Scrolls and making it more modernized.
[SPEAKER_04]: And I've used in the past examples of games like Dark Souls or Elden Ring and how much more fluid the combat is, how there's like a Perry system and there's Dodd rolls and things like this.
[SPEAKER_04]: and it just feels a little bit more fluid.
[SPEAKER_04]: Now people misunderstood that.
[SPEAKER_04]: I definitely got comments where people are like, there's no, you can't make, if Elder Scrolls combat feels like Elder Ring, I'm out.
[SPEAKER_04]: But it's totally too far, and I'm like, well yeah, that's not what I want.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want it to play exactly like Elder Ring.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't want there to be boss fights like Elden Ring.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's not what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_04]: When I am saying is, move it a little bit in that direction.
[SPEAKER_04]: The way that many mods do for Skyrim, where there's just like, there's a Perry system, or the mobility allows you to side step a swing and then stab somebody in the side, or something.
[SPEAKER_03]: Because we already, but more like, that with more wind, it was very hard to physically dodge an attack.
[SPEAKER_03]: You just hit the dice for all this stuff.
[SPEAKER_03]: Or do you think, yes.
[SPEAKER_03]: And, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're a cast of Freakens.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then when we get to a living in Skyrims, I was like, oh, no, you can like move your characters aside, walk back, and you can dodge you, text much easier that way, you know, we tend to do that in more wind.
[SPEAKER_03]: But like, it was very difficult.
[SPEAKER_03]: And so like you did get more fluidity and more dynamics in combat with these new games and if we continue that path and just continue to make them even more dynamic and more fluid Then yeah, I'm totally all for that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, so to answer the question later, to fit in the topic of this episode
[SPEAKER_04]: I would then say, make it play like Elden Ring.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like make a hand or a person, you know, like you get to the end of the equivalent of Bleef Falls Barrow, and now you're in a boss fight where you have to get hit the hit the guy 50 times because he takes little bits of health damage to dodge all 70 times.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's massive and he's like, like, swing in across the whole arena and if you don't time your eye frames correctly, you get you get killed in two hits, you know, like that sort of thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: That would be way too far.
[SPEAKER_03]: We should definitely keep dodge roll out of Tamriel.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, I don't mind I agree I don't mind a like a back step or a side step, but yeah, dodge rolling around and somehow that keeps you from being damaged I think is too far.
[SPEAKER_03]: I love that for Dark Souls Nelson ring.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's their stick.
[SPEAKER_03]: Let them have it.
[SPEAKER_03]: We'll keep our happiness over here, you know
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it doesn't need to be less clunky, though.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of what happened is awkwardness.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: And to your point, a lot of what happens in Oblivion and Skyrim is that you end a back pedaling, you things, and then you back up, and then hit things, and they come out, you back up.
[SPEAKER_04]: And so the melee combat becomes just like,
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, try to catch me, try to catch me, especially at higher difficulties, because you can't take too many hits.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, especially in oblivion, I found that was just, I was just back, I was stepping backwards constantly.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yep, yep, and then you end up back down the hallway, and then you finally kill them and you have to go all the way back through the hallway to get to the next section of that guy's.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I've brought it before that I was in a martial arts group where we practiced how to sword fight with actual swords and we had a guy who would always fight that way and we would piss everyone off, everyone would get so mad at him because and he would do very well of course yeah, he would just like go in and hit you and then like run away, go in and hit you and run away and like bro, what are you doing?
[SPEAKER_03]: This is not martial arts.
[SPEAKER_03]: But if it works, it does work.
[SPEAKER_03]: Like he just looks like a scaredy cat the whole time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I does this very cat, then that's okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, all right, so here's another one.
[SPEAKER_04]: If we want to go down the combat side, instead of each of the games kind of has what feels like the, we've talked about this, the gravitational pull, like Oblivion's gravitational pull is like a combat mage.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then the gravitational first guy room is stealth archer.
[SPEAKER_04]: What if they just doubled down on that and they're like Okay, well, this one you can only be a stealth archer.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's now it's now a stealth archer game I know other other options.
[SPEAKER_03]: It's just thief.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just the usual six to 100.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yes, I'm trying to think of like Was it sticks is the goblin one anything?
[SPEAKER_04]: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just a stealth combat game now
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, yeah, I guess this is the same kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like, if they take it too far in any one specific direction without allowing the player to adjust how they manage combat, they've gone too far and that ruins it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I guess that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, that one way of sort of achieving that is by making all the mechanisms, all of the, all of the fighting mechanisms extremely not worth it or difficult compared to just one.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can kind of force that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Just make one.
[SPEAKER_03]: Always use this option.
[SPEAKER_03]: Then that's what everyone's going to default to and you'll never see the other ones utilized.
[SPEAKER_03]: Right.
[SPEAKER_03]: Everything needs to be viable.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or it's like one class is just way harder or way easier or way more awkward or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just unbalanced at all.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: I got another one for you.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: So when you're going in dungeons, there's always like little puzzles or some of the dungeons have little puzzles.
[SPEAKER_04]: And like Skyrim, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: Like you got to turn the things with the different pictures on them and line them up the right way and then the door opens or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: That kind of thing, right?
[SPEAKER_04]: And some of the complaints for Skyrim, especially back in the day where like, oh, these puzzles are so simple.
[SPEAKER_04]: A toddler can do them.
[SPEAKER_04]: Why even put them in the game?
[SPEAKER_04]: And the obvious answer to that is having a scaling amount of puzzles.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have puzzles for some places that are very easy, especially some of the ones along the mainline content early on.
[SPEAKER_04]: So you do the video game thing where you learn how the puzzle works and then you build upon that.
[SPEAKER_04]: as people play through the game, and then you have some locations that are really obtuse that you've got to actually do some research, go talk to somebody, get some hints, or find a paper that helps reveal it so you can figure it out, and so you have this variety.
[SPEAKER_04]: But what if they totally mess that up, and they're like, okay, well, you don't want easy puzzles anymore.
[SPEAKER_04]: And every puzzle is like the most ridiculous time-consuming thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: A similar example, not quite on the same caliber, is the lockpicking system in Starfield.
[SPEAKER_04]: I like the lockpicking system in Skyrim and in Oblivion because they're fairly quick.
[SPEAKER_04]: You don't always get them right, but they're fairly quick to do.
[SPEAKER_04]: But the one in Starfield, especially once you get to the higher-harder locks, it takes like two minutes every time to pick a lock.
[SPEAKER_03]: I think I didn't buy a shock how that issue, too, with lock picking, where it was like its own separate little mini game, and some people loved it, and it was just very easy with them, and other people just hated it, and it was like, oh no, I download a mod to disable that part of the game.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, because I can do the Starfield.
[SPEAKER_04]: Lock picking, like I can figure out every time and get it right, I just don't want to have to spend two minutes to then open up a container that only gives me like a little tiny bitty things that aren't even that valuable.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like it's not worth my time to pick the locks, so eventually I just stop picking locks.
[SPEAKER_04]: But like the puzzle system would be kind of similar except now you're gated out of content because you just don't want to have to stand there for like 20 minutes trying to figure out a puzzle that's really hard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, I mean, they can bring back the old school, like Sierra game, like the point and click adventure game, moon logicy stuff, where you just need to figure out that you're supposed to use this, you know, the jar of honey to make the door stick close to that your enemies can't come after you or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right, but just brute force trial, you just had to try everything in your inventory.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, do you want to bring back like progress?
[SPEAKER_03]: Like, I'm guessing we all have experience with like old RPGs from the like early 2000s and late 90s where like a final fantasy is a great example where you have the entire game of Final Fantasy and then there's like three points randomly spread throughout the game where the whole like method of the game stops and you're playing a different game now because you're stuck in this puzzle.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they threw it you out of nowhere and you have to solve this puzzle so that you can go back to the normal game.
[SPEAKER_03]: do we like that?
[SPEAKER_03]: Do we want to bring that back?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, or?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, we'd be interested to be integrated in the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it would ruin my puzzle.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I like my puzzles immersive.
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, well, they weren't kind of immersive because it was like, oh, I'm in this world and this puzzles right in front of me.
[SPEAKER_03]: I have to solve it in order to go forward because they did kind of trap you where he had maybe make making more optional, but I don't know that there was a maybe more mostly nostalgia talking.
[SPEAKER_03]: I did like an aspect of them, but they are not that interesting.
[SPEAKER_04]: it would be like if we did this like a regular episode of this podcast and like most of the podcast was about Elder Scrolls lore and then there was a 5 minute break in the middle where all of a sudden we talked about finance.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then we would, you know, people would be like, why, why, this isn't why I'm here.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not here for the next patron chat is just breaking down how credit scores work.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Every patron chat once a month, there's an episode that's about, you know, like, I don't know, flaws in the education system.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're like, you're Roth IRA.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it's like, that's not what this shows about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Performing stocks of the last 60 days.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You just have like a segment.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, all right well I've got I've got one more that comes to mind.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think this one would be absolutely terrible and also kind of hilarious you guys talk about FMVs right in old games
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it would be awesome if we had FMVs in like a cheesy sort of way.
[SPEAKER_04]: So good.
[SPEAKER_04]: People wouldn't get it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would be.
[SPEAKER_04]: But that's not where I'm going.
[SPEAKER_04]: Where I'm going is you get to a certain point in the game.
[SPEAKER_04]: And let's say they implement a puzzle and it is hard.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you can't figure it out.
[SPEAKER_04]: And you mess with it for like five minutes and you can't figure it out.
[SPEAKER_04]: And all of a sudden a button says,
[SPEAKER_04]: Do you need help, and then you hit the button, and then Todd Howard shows up and goes, hey there, having a hard time on that puzzle, let me help you out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's what you need to do, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie, hippie
[SPEAKER_04]: Rob has strong feelings about this one.
[SPEAKER_03]: He should have done it.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just right.
[SPEAKER_03]: I was just right there.
[SPEAKER_03]: I would never, ever buy that game.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's as it looks.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've been trying this and getting the wrong answer for over seven and a half minutes.
[SPEAKER_04]: Looks like you're a dummy who's never played an RPG before.
[SPEAKER_04]: Let me explain how stupid.
[SPEAKER_01]: How stupid.
[SPEAKER_04]: How stupid.
[SPEAKER_04]: I was worried.
[SPEAKER_03]: I blooded it boiling just like thought of this.
[SPEAKER_02]: I got Howard doesn't.
[SPEAKER_02]: He shows up.
[SPEAKER_02]: He doesn't show you how to do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: He just, you know, he just doesn't work.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, it just wasn't.
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey, man.
[SPEAKER_04]: It just works.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's as you only.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and then all of a sudden the puzzle just like clicks into place in the door opens.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, I can't believe it had to do that for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: He dresses you by name.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, he has to smack some us or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: Right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Like he knows you're your steam account or whatever.
[SPEAKER_04]: And he's like, can you there?
[SPEAKER_04]: No, just imagine.
[SPEAKER_04]: Awesome guy.
[SPEAKER_03]: 74 lands with a clap trap.
[SPEAKER_04]: The clap trap shows up and doesn't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, clap trap was so irritating that that would work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Be what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you click on that?
[SPEAKER_03]: That would be click on.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, we're getting close to the end of the show.
[SPEAKER_04]: You guess I've any other I've been throwing out ideas because they've just been popping in my head, but anything else is gold
[SPEAKER_04]: If somebody were to implement some of these ideas and mods, please let us know, because that would be an easier horrendous ideas for an official game.
[SPEAKER_03]: Most of these are great ideas for a mod.
[SPEAKER_04]: But especially if you just want to play through that, it's like feels ridiculous or is terrible.
[SPEAKER_04]: Or even a mod that doesn't actually have microtransactions, but simulates microtransactions with pop-ups and stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it takes some of your real your gold from in-game.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Some of your stuff, even.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, it's mods like the day got to err mod, like- Yeah, it's just some of like- Oh, you didn't ask just the gold.
[SPEAKER_04]: you want that because you want to be irritated right there is an audience for some of that but it's not the main line audience that wants to spend full price on the game when it comes out yeah well this has been super this is like super fun guys i'm glad this this topic worked out and we've now completely demolished any possibility for elder scroll six to be successful so i guess i'm more just kind of closed down the podcast once the game comes out
[SPEAKER_04]: But hopefully they don't do the things that we came up with this week and actually everything we mentioned they're doing so they're practically rewriting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Oh, no.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, hopefully yeah, maybe this is a warning to them.
[SPEAKER_04]: Maybe some developers like
[SPEAKER_04]: Hey guys, I just listened to an episode of Podcasts.
[SPEAKER_04]: We need to change course real quick before we watch the game.
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I was apprehensive of like the microch transaction like, oh, how far are you wanting to go?
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm like, I don't want that to be public nowadays.
[SPEAKER_03]: They will hear that and they will take that.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, far I want to.
[SPEAKER_02]: We're willing are very different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm glad it's some time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're like, Rob the Princess, 2026 said on May 28th.
[SPEAKER_04]: You're going to be in a board meeting somewhere where somebody pulls up like a PowerPoint presentation.
[SPEAKER_04]: And they're like, listen to this clip from a guy named Rob the Princess about how we can make our mind your transactions.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be a stream.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a screen grab of you of like what Gerald behind you.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's the board meeting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_04]: Alright guys, well here let's go through everybody and actually before we do that I've got to think our patrons thank you to the patron thank you guys and the rest of our patrons for supporting the show of course every week patreon.com slash elder scrolls lorecast if you'd like to sign up and get ad free episodes and a bunch of other stuff and join us for chats like this in the future we come up with terrible ideas just like we did sign up on patreon also shout out to all of our
[SPEAKER_04]: And we've got a new review on Apple podcast, but it specifically mentions Lotus, and he's not able to be here this week.
[SPEAKER_04]: So I'm going to save it for next week, because I think you'll get a kick out of it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'll try not to forget.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to bury it in my brain.
[SPEAKER_04]: Try not to forget.
[SPEAKER_04]: But there you go.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then, of course, you can share the show with your friends and things like that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So thank you, everybody, for your support.
[SPEAKER_04]: Rob, let's just go in order.
[SPEAKER_04]: Rob, anything you want to share, ways people can reach out, and I think going on.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm an admin at the robots discord server, I am a guild officer for the PCNA ESO guild technically speaking still.
[SPEAKER_03]: I'll have the princess reach out to me if you want.
[SPEAKER_03]: Skyplivering in project any day now.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I saw that they finished up the alien ruins recently.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that was an announcement about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So excited.
[SPEAKER_04]: The screenshot they showed looked really cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: So excited about that.
[SPEAKER_04]: Also, you mentioned ESO in just a few weeks for now.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's maybe five or six weeks for now.
[SPEAKER_04]: We're getting the update that gives us different levels of difficulty.
[SPEAKER_04]: out in the world difficulty levels with like scaling with different amounts of XP and some other stuff that you get depending on the level you put it at.
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's kind of exciting.
[SPEAKER_04]: Something I've been mentioned before, I was like, you know, some of the stuff I just walk past at this point, it'd be nice to have to engage with it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, and I remember back in the day they were a time of how that's impossible and now they figured out a way to make it possible.
[SPEAKER_03]: You're in and out.
[SPEAKER_04]: I have my suspicions.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't know officially, but my guess is that it's tied to your character and specifically the damage you deal and the damage that you take.
[SPEAKER_04]: They didn't have to change the world.
[SPEAKER_04]: They just changed the scaling on each character in order to make it work.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I make sense.
[SPEAKER_04]: You have like if you're on the easy difficulty and you have a damage buff right right and it just kind of it's like a per character thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think which yeah which is cool because that's kind of feels more like you mentioned the oblo you raise the difficulty you get more XP, but you also do less damage.
[SPEAKER_04]: So yeah, and this little bit harder you take more damage to so that's cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: Falcon anything you want to share anything going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see.
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, so.
[SPEAKER_02]: I work at a grocery store, this Nigerian man came in, had a list for him as a wife, took like an hour to find all his stuff.
[SPEAKER_02]: He pulled, after I was unhelping him as if he knew anything else, he pulls out another phone and says, my second wife has a list also and had me follow him around to help him with that one.
[SPEAKER_02]: He had two phones for two wives and two lists.
[SPEAKER_04]: Is this a real story or is this a real story?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's a real story.
[SPEAKER_04]: It's like a joke set up and you're like, And then it's third wife said, Uh-huh.
[SPEAKER_04]: And then there's like a funny punch line or something.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's weird.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's already my wife.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hilarious.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's hilarious.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's really odd.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, cool.
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess I don't know.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_04]: Congrats on the two wives.
[SPEAKER_04]: I also don't know why you would want two wives, but okay.
[SPEAKER_03]: Wait.
[SPEAKER_03]: You want to work?
[SPEAKER_03]: No, it's not a word.
[SPEAKER_04]: You want to.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right, well, thanks for the story.
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm in Taka and you can go in on you when to share.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm heavily involved with the moment with organizing a conference about constructed languages in Denmark.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if anybody's interested in that type of thing, you can also view it streaming live on YouTube in July.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's July 10th through 12th.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you go to ConLang.org.
[SPEAKER_01]: you can find out more about that, so yeah, if you're into fictional languages, world building, all that kind of stuff, kind of inner.
[SPEAKER_04]: Very cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, remind us again next month, because I think we'll probably do the episode and it'll be up before that.
[SPEAKER_04]: So it'll be actually really close to you, too.
[SPEAKER_01]: So people may have, and you can have, if you're free, streaming, and there's loads of content, also from previous conferences.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, yep, thank you.
[SPEAKER_04]: Very cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: That's so cool.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, thanks guys, and Lotus, I hope you're Dodgers feeling better.
[SPEAKER_04]: I hope you get some sleep tonight, buddy I know it's been a rough day for him otherwise you would have been here But and chat.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thank you for being here as well.
[SPEAKER_04]: So happy to see you guys hanging out and all the comments and things Really do appreciate that.
[SPEAKER_04]: All right.
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, Lotus and I will be back next week
[SPEAKER_04]: U.S.P.
[SPEAKER_04]: random use p page you're right U.S.P.
[SPEAKER_04]: dot com i'm going to hit the random button what's no it's not work U.S.P.
[SPEAKER_04]: dot or sp shut down no it's not net it's not net let me what is it done net all right it's done net i go to the site all the time i can remember random page here we go you auto fills for me i don't remember
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, right, like I think I probably just type UASP and like it just Googles it.
[SPEAKER_04]: I click the first thing.
[SPEAKER_04]: Okay, this one is online.
[SPEAKER_04]: Elgish goes online, quests, imperial city side quests, scouting the Elvin Gardens.
[SPEAKER_04]: I don't remember this one.
[SPEAKER_04]: I probably have done it, but don't remember it.
[SPEAKER_04]: Quick walk through, examin the scouting board, use the latter works in the Alliance space to reach the Elvin Gardens district, raise the Alliance banner at the rally point.
[SPEAKER_04]: Pretty simple quest.
[SPEAKER_04]: I think it's part of a chain of other things, too, but there you go.
[SPEAKER_04]: That one's not so interesting.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, they're on the Imperial City.
[SPEAKER_04]: Imperial City.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_04]: When are people still do the Imperial?
[SPEAKER_04]: Did people still play the Imperial City regularly?
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I don't play ES so anymore.
[SPEAKER_03]: But back when I did, people were definitely, and that was only like two years at this point.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, definitely still playing tons of Imperial City.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, I have feelings some people that's like their thing and other people just never do it.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well, you guys tons might be a bit of exaggeration, but like yeah, there's there's still plenty of people doing it right like fishing some people just love fishing And then people are like yeah, I don't ever fish, you know, but it's an MMO.
[SPEAKER_03]: That's what they're for it's really difficult to to Quest in the Emperos city because everyone's killing you.
[SPEAKER_03]: I just so annoying right right this Ain't issue for me about that
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't love being randomly slaughtered, so it's kind of like, I avoid areas.
[SPEAKER_03]: But that's why you picked the days where, like, you don't wait for, like, the Peloma white strike event, where everyone's in the Imperial City, you, you wait till it's nice and quiet, then you can go and do the class.
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_03]: Where are you bringing some friends?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're gonna be, you're gonna be white-stragged.
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, white-stragged.
[SPEAKER_04]: On that note, don't get white-stragged, and we'll see you next week.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks, everybody.
[SPEAKER_04]: See you next time.
[SPEAKER_04]: Thanks for tuning into the Elder Scrolls lorecast.
[SPEAKER_04]: Check out RobotsRadio.net for more podcasts just like this, and join us on the RobotsRadio Discord, be part of a community of over 5,000 people who are excited about video games and so much more.