[SPEAKER_00]: So this episode comes to you in the middle of us being sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I say we are sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying that for Alisha and I because I've lost like seven pounds now in the last few days.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not the weightless program you want when you're pregnant so we're working on that don't worry we're getting all the proper medical advice and then Elijah goes around he is the same thing but he's going around saying he's not sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean he's here at our home but Elijah's like the exact we aren't like around anybody else but he is the exact opposite of what people say when men like get a cold and
[SPEAKER_00]: and go crawling bed and act like it's in the world when they're sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like a hear certain wives say their husband is like man's sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Where he's barely sick and then he gets in bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a thing, huh?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Alexis, the opposite.
[SPEAKER_00]: He goes around just like adding more to his plate.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's out doing more yard work, taking stuff to the dump.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you're so sick.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, I'm doing fine.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I, and I'm not nearly, I think I've got a little bit of whatever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is that you got it, but you've got it far worse.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're just starting to work.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm really not.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very hard work.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that comes to sickness.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, you know, people say like, oh, you know, the sickness gets through your body faster if you rest and I'm like, prove it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, how do you know that if I would have rested, it would have gotten through faster.
[SPEAKER_01]: I may as well get things done while I don't feel good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that your mindset?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's my mindset.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, because people don't know, maybe maybe my body does better when I keep moving.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe you're just really tired, but yeah, a life's just awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's taken care of me so well on top of his illness and anyways So all that to say we bring you Talks of health and peptides and everything when Right isn't that kind of what we're talking about beauty and Health and that's where your mind's out here in the middle of this flu and pregnancy
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you guys can tell a camera or not, but right before I came down here, our life's just like, you look kind of gone, are you okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was laughing mentally because I was like, we're going down to talk about GLP ones and I might have kind of like a what they call a GLP one face, which is like your hunger hormone has been blocked too aggressively.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Zimpy, what's that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Zimpy, it was like probably the first one, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: That became really popular well now.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, clearly you're unwell, but you're hungry.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've kind of like, you've damaged a pain hormone or blocked a pain hormone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so you don't know if it's you're unwell.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that said I know I'm unwell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, and I do want our listeners to know that Katie is on the back side.
[SPEAKER_01]: We get brought in her rest, which is critical.
[SPEAKER_01]: And she's done a, I think you've been gracious and Katie talks about me not slowing down.
[SPEAKER_01]: If that's the case, you, like that's how you live your entire life through pregnancy, through sickness.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, we are traveling as when this was kind of getting started, which is always,
[SPEAKER_01]: always challenging just kind of crash landed at home and and there is no there is there's no there's no rest for the weary right there's no break when you are the parent of young children and so we crash landed from a road trip and you were down but then it's like a lawn that as it goes when you're done with a road trip the laundry piles up you know the fridge is empty because you were gone and the chores still need done and
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's no sermons.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the hardest part of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I just add someone to do this stuff, it'd be great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lie, Chef.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the kids, honestly, having really capable children has been such a gift.
[SPEAKER_00]: because obviously I don't want them to feel the huge burden of it, but it's kind of weird how elicin I are the ones not feeling well and the kids all seem to be doing great at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so even like their ability to scam after meals or make breakfast, it's a little mess here than usual, but they can get breakfast going by themselves and tidy their rooms or things like that I had even the
[SPEAKER_00]: Four-year-old in the two-year-old, helping me with laundry, so I was just kind of sitting on the couch and like, okay, run this here, run this here.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they've been my little legs and minions when a life is unavailable.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyways, it's been a real gift, even their ability to self entertain.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but it does, you know, you were kind of talking, you mentioned briefly peptides in the whole thing, but it is even as you, I mean, the saying goes, you know, when you have your health, you have a hundred goals when you don't have your health, you have one goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's something like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And everybody can relate to the, I guess, to that, being the case where, though, it feels like the world's your oyster when you're in good health, and you have your to-do list, and it's, you know, just the horizon is so promising, and then you lose your health, and that's the kind of like the only thing that matters at that time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that's kind of a question around maybe peptides and maybe just the help the current health movement in general is, okay, is this optimization, is this treatment, is this stewardship, because we've talked about in episodes past how health is one of our giant five, you know, the giant five framework that your dad came up with and uses and, you know, we are faith is just the most important thing that are marriage, that are children, and then our
[SPEAKER_01]: And one hand, you're like, okay, that's obvious because we'd lay our life down for our faith, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You would die for your faith, you would die for your spouse, you would die for your children.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's why you kind of know that your health is, you know, it's, it comes after those things.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, your poor health can really harm your marriage, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I mean, it's been said, you know, in stress on it for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: on a more like, you know, people have said kind of in a cheeky way how peptides is like saved so many marriages.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's brought like pleasure back to so many marriages.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, okay, well, that's not necessarily a bad thing on the surface.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, okay, marriages a good thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And and that's just like one element of life, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That is.
[SPEAKER_01]: that's a big element of life, that's marriage and how your health impacts marriage, but when you are sick, which, fortunately, you know, apart from morning sickness with pregnancies, which you've been a trooper through many now, we've not had to undergo a lot of illness in our home.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've just been
[SPEAKER_01]: But I am curious, Katie, as to kind of how you've do, and I know you've been reading a lot about just like Christian sacrifice and suffering, what your current perspective is on health, Christians, and health, Christians, and you know, optimizing health versus stewarding our health.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, can we, can we idolize our health and put this on too high of a pedestal?
[SPEAKER_01]: And can we do things that are just for aesthetics and you know, cosmetic reasons that actually
[SPEAKER_01]: true health, like our energy levels, or our vitality, and at what point do you view like okay, it is when people do lay their life down in a sacrificial way, a lot of times that means their health, and how do we view that as Christians, and as a mother, there's a huge element of that in motherhood.
[SPEAKER_01]: You are giving your body to this, to this
[SPEAKER_01]: thing of this to motherhood right to the making of a child to the caring for a child and it comes at a great cost to your physical body.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what are your thoughts around them?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm curious to hear yours too.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a lot there, I'm excited to talk about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think, yeah, this is ongoing for us because we obviously know a lot of people right now that are on peptides or using peptides.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I tell Oyesha, often I am so grateful that they are the generation ahead as experimenting for us because there's gonna be a lot more intel.
[SPEAKER_00]: By the time we hit our 40s and 50s and 60s, then there is right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: There always have to be those people that kind of try it out and see what the brandifications are.
[SPEAKER_00]: You see where the pitfalls are.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you could see people do things well and then see people taking things too far, obviously with any form of health.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's funny because you even mentioned marriage and even has our perspective of marriage is shifted.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in this like happiness and holiness can really co-mingle, you know, I think I think we did a podcast very early on one of our first 10 on as marriage supposed to make you whole your happy or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the time, I was very against this idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think because I saw a lot of people unhappy marriages that didn't seem like they were really
[SPEAKER_00]: trying to make each other happy and just said, well, marriage makes you holy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of like, well, marriage can be the happiest thing you ever experienced too.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think in realizing that, oh, there is this sanctifying process that happens in marriage.
[SPEAKER_00]: that can happen through lack of health and a spouse or in a partner, you know, and sometimes you can grow more in your marriage that way than if you're both everything's just tunky-dory all the time too, you know, so when they say like it saves the marriages, I would say, well, your marriage probably wasn't built on the right thing, if that's what's holding your marriage together, is each other's desire for each other, the physically or, um,
[SPEAKER_00]: drive, is there different things like that?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think my perspective has changed a little bit on that where I think maybe your first five years of marriage.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just said like, well, anything to keep things going well and like the sex like department or, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: Just physical attractiveness or things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do think that those are gifts from God that we could have in our marriage.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like where do you rank it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, where do you rank that exactly?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what is your marriage built on, actually?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, even what's your heart behind that, because, again, going to the physical intimacy, I think there can be an element of living with your spouse.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the Bible tells us to live with our wife's according to knowledge, and which should certainly do that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think the wife could take that, say, I should live with my husband according to knowledge too.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, again, that's such a applied so broadly, and so let's go ahead and apply a broadly.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like knowing the physical state of your spouse and knowing where they're at,
[SPEAKER_01]: that can then inform what you're going to be pursuing for your health, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're kind of like, well, that's it.
[SPEAKER_01]: If, I mean, like on an extreme example, it's like, okay, you know, human, human growth hormones, which, you know, we, like, are unhealthy.
[SPEAKER_01]: are clearly not natural to the body.
[SPEAKER_01]: But human growth hormones are each, whatever, HG, H people talk about, like really can boost men's testosterone.
[SPEAKER_00]: But now they have, what do they call those?
[SPEAKER_00]: The hormone replacement therapy.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is, I think a lot of people do, that is healthy for a lot of people.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I think whether it's low T, whether it's just your little anything regarding your libido, you know, like things like that, it's like, well, where's your spouse at on the on the spectrum, right, like, where can you match them or try to get close to where they're at.
[SPEAKER_01]: in a healthy way, in a way that's not compromising the other areas of your health.
[SPEAKER_01]: That can be a very loving thing to do and just maybe wise, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I've heard a lot of guys talk, you hear the ads.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I get these ads because I'm a guy, you know, but it's like, man, I've got more, I'm in my 50s and I feel like, I'm 25, I'm 25.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got more energy than when I was 20, and because of whatever it is they're taking, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, well, is that like fair to your wife?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like how, how does your wife feel about that?
[SPEAKER_01]: If she's also,
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if she feels like she's 25, that's a great parent.
[SPEAKER_00]: So actually, if she felt like she's 20, if she's feeling like she's 50, and you're feeling like you're 25, there is going to be a discrepancy here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe isn't going to serve anybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's this a win for?
[SPEAKER_01]: If you do prioritize your marriage, then it's like, well, let's live with my wife according to knowledge.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's live with my husband according to knowledge.
[SPEAKER_00]: If your husband's 15, he naturally feels like he's 25, then as a fifth-year-old wife, I'd be like, okay, what are steps that I can take to grow in this area or maximize my energy levels?
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, because you wouldn't want, if he was naturally just had great vitality and good energy, you wouldn't want him to be like, hey, get less healthy, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: You wouldn't really stop having so-one energy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you would do something that try to, you know, match his pace.
[SPEAKER_01]: But those are things I've thought about.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, be like, I feel younger than never.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got more energy than never.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, why are you guys going up the same pace here?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think that that could be really helpful to the marriage.
[SPEAKER_01]: If that's the case.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's something we've talked about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Basically, we're like, okay, that would be a red flag for us.
[SPEAKER_00]: It may be one of us is aging in a certain way.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other ones, like, de-escalated, like getting younger.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the other one just can't mede-ballically get any younger.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like we aren't going to try to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to try to, like, you want unity in man.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, age to get there for a whole time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's unity.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think there is this seeking that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe that's by one person trying to, again, we've mentioned hormone replacement therapy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know this has been super successful for a lot of women going through menopause.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's definitely something I am on for going through menopause.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like this isn't something we've ruled out.
[SPEAKER_00]: This isn't something that we would be doing right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like a gift kind of in our modern world we are living a lot longer than we used to live.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think there are things that you know when you're dying at 40 years old, you didn't even have to consider.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so now, because you are living longer, or even our fertility window is longer than it used to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: our children's mortality rate is lower than it used to be.
[SPEAKER_00]: So children are, you know, we're having children older or the potential to have children older.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, you know, if you're my mom, then you're 46 and you have a baby, you're, you know, she's 60 in a year and Courtney will be 14.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so she's been raising little kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: She has grandkids.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a huge full life.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I guess energy to live that life is going to be different in a modern era, then it would have looked like I think even, I don't know, a few generations ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: So these are things that we have rolled out, I guess.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, things that we've mentioned.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, as far as what's the, what's the, what's the Jail P1 or does it, is that the, like, the really like the peptides instead?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like as far as like that's like the more like weight loss particular peptide, whether there's other ones probably you,
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a lot of different peptides.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know there are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Super, this isn't like a scientific... No.
[SPEAKER_00]: We would interview someone who I'd know so they're talking about if we were going to go into like the details of these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's more like from our...
[SPEAKER_00]: What are we kind of considering as these things are coming on the market from a faith-based perspective?
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: No.
[SPEAKER_00]: As the Lord has matured us our perspective has changed on these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: But also just kind of seen people ahead of us and seen okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does this look like it would serve our marriage?
[SPEAKER_00]: It would serve us our children one day or is this plane into the cult of the body?
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, and I think that obviously there is a line with anything physically related that complained to the cult of the body.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and you see, unfortunately, I think different cults of Christianity, sex of Christianity, you could call them what you want.
[SPEAKER_00]: come up with certain boundaries, maybe, to identify what would be the line for that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and it's different for so many different groups of Christians.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I said cults, but that was extreme.
[SPEAKER_00]: As I'm thinking about it, it's just groups of Christians.
[SPEAKER_00]: So for instance, like braces in some communities are seen as facilitating the call to the body or in others, they just aren't at all wearing makeup is, you know, but like tanning's not doing your hair is in some communities like dramatically in other communities, it's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's just, it's kind of interesting, certain clothing choices.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, and I do think that each one of these things has the potential to absolutely facilitate idolatry and the worship of ourselves, vanity, all those things, but I also don't think that those things always fulfill those
[SPEAKER_00]: fulfill those, uh, sinful, like, just veins, just veins.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, go to sinful ends either.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, the ones you all mentioned were, um, again, cosmetic and just kind of a, yes, yes, primarily appearance, not necessarily with braces.
[SPEAKER_01]: There are other ramifications, you know, that go with just your teeth and things like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're not just aesthetic, but, um,
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's primarily how people view those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, which I would say health falls into a aesthetic category when it goes to hormone replacement therapy and peptides because most often it's dealing with aesthetic causes.
[SPEAKER_00]: that correspond with health, you know, but it's, you know, weight loss, which it definitely has to do with health, but also isn't aesthetic.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I've even people that are extremely holistic in their approach to weight loss, you know, prescribed or recommend, peptides if somebody is extremely overweight because it just gets them on the right.
[SPEAKER_01]: It gets
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you've been there body, you know, in a healthy way because I think what you are saying is it's like, well, yeah, you maybe you want that overall health that comes with losing the weight with diet and with exercise and things like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: What I'm saying is that some people outlaw things completely and I don't see that when it comes to braces make up clothing and then going into hormones going into peptides going into all those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there can be healthy instances of this, and I think there can be sinful uses of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's what I'm saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: So someone might rule out completely peptides and say they're totally wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or someone might rule out hormone replacements and say they're totally wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't see there being an intensity for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: What would you say then in regards to, because I do think that there are two extremes, and that is like the extreme, say, Mahah movement, make America healthy, again, movement, and so, which I think we've definitely been part of.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that like on various levels and discovering the seed oils or discovering, what's funny is Mahah, though, is it healthy when it comes to cosmetically?
[SPEAKER_00]: if that makes sense.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're two different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're seen as two different things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cosmetics get a free pass.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you want like cleaner makeup.
[SPEAKER_00]: But like honestly, the cleanest thing we can do for a face is no makeup.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: Cleaner injectables.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think the cleanest thing is no injectables.
[SPEAKER_01]: Speaking primarily to like food.
[SPEAKER_00]: And doesn't it seem like you can make America healthy again?
[SPEAKER_01]: I think farm a big food.
[SPEAKER_00]: most of the issues women have are caused by cosmetics actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it really.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like died.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a pregnancy.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, all the things that are on our body.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think I think that the ones that are easier to replace are that they're substitutes for are, but
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like if there's a substitute, then people will substitute it, but if there's not a substitute, we just go with.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's available?
[SPEAKER_01]: To like, that's maybe one of those areas of hypocrisy in the movement, what's you're saying?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, yeah, we'll get rid of the it's not the true renewal of a hippie earthy woman who's totally natural.
[SPEAKER_00]: Does that make sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because that is the healthiest form for our body.
[UNKNOWN]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: mental.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like you can you can see somebody that's actually truly like you can tell if you're like the lamb if you're glam it's like there's only an element of how healthy you can be and be glam.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, you're compromising.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are compromising.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which is totally fine like
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just it's just the nature of the oh sure.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's like when I want to smell good I don't go for like the most natural thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no It could be really fun, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I mean, that's not us.
[SPEAKER_01]: We aren't like the the total Natural our nails type of people that yeah, okay, but it's it let's just say say that that's one If there is an extreme on that whatever it may be and then on the other hand, you're like this doesn't matter at all just
[SPEAKER_01]: like buy the groceries.
[SPEAKER_01]: I honestly think that Douglas Wilson's kind of guilty of this where we need talks about names out.
[SPEAKER_01]: We do love the Wilson.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we do, yeah, I think people know it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anytime he talks about how it seems like there's a disconnect to him like associating health with like just like non-fat milk or something, you know, or like skim milk or you know by like diet instead of regular soda.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there's like a weird like
[SPEAKER_01]: And that would be one set, it's like this doesn't matter, it's all, you know, like just feast like the Lord knows the day he has our days numbered and just be kind of like just eat what you need to eat.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're like Lutheran concept.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm just curious as to how you view it from a standpoint of, you know, stewardship as a mother, as a, you know, as a wife, when it comes to okay, we are, like, that we are living in a fallen system.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what is trusting the Lord with our health look like, you know, because people talk about will peptides aren't, you know, so many of them are not FDA approved or the ones that are, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: are regulated.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're not regulated, but it's like, I thought we didn't trust the FDA.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like, I'll come all of a sudden, like, I guess you do trust them to some point, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, when there is the black market or the gray market, you're like, well, people are dying from some of these things or getting, you know, they're growing like a third arm.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you start valuing
[SPEAKER_01]: FDA approval on some level but like how much do you trust just kind of the system and you're like okay well it's in the grocery store this is approved right because there is a approval process that's required just to be in the grocery store and so you can say that this that this is owned by big food you know and there's dyes and there's whatever the oils and all the bad GMO anything
[SPEAKER_01]: and these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: So do you just trust that and say, hey, we're going to, like this is what we can afford.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what we're going to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or do you go to the full extreme and say, no, we need to grow our own food.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm, and I'm, I'm drawing to extremes here.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what do you think as a Christian looks like?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a faithfully in these, in these areas.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think ethically, really, this whole conversation is just based on the ethics of these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think is what it boils down to, because each person is going to decide their aesthetic, what is good for them, what health risks they're willing to take, what you don't like.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think one person can say for everyone, this is the way to go, but ethically there are ramifications that we have to, there are boundaries we have to live within, and so I think that is the bare conversation for Christians.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so something that would be a consideration for me and I think we didn't consider this enough, unfortunately as a Christian community,
[SPEAKER_00]: especially the evangelical side when it came to like IVF and things like that are okay how is this what is this process?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are we sourcing these hormones?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where are we sourcing these peptides?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they coming from aborted fetal cells?
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they coming from you know like what is the harvesting process look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like the ethics of the creation and the injections and stuff like that would be something that I think Christians could consider
[SPEAKER_00]: If that process is all good, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of not harming dot's creation.
[SPEAKER_01]: You mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I think people are just going to have to make those decisions very on their own, knowing that there's a ditch.
[SPEAKER_00]: that you can fall in.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's really a ditch you can fall on on either side because you can find self-righteousness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And well, I don't do anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't do any of those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: And maybe I feel bad about myself because I feel like I look old and decrepit and
[SPEAKER_00]: She doesn't look like she's old and decrepit, but she's clearly not honoring God with her body because, you know, X, Y and Z, you got put in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I'm saying?
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think I think it comes down to the marriage.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think, honest, you see someone's maturity spiritually and how they use these things as tools.
[SPEAKER_00]: It just comes out like everything you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it comes out when you see someone who is a tasteful dresser, but when you meet them, you just, the Lord's radiating through them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's not, they weren't frompy, they weren't super stylish, maybe they were, or maybe they're one or the other, but you just see Christ and then, and you know his presence.
[SPEAKER_00]: was there and you were able to commune with him and there wasn't a barrier between that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes for women we can get so focused on ourselves and how we look and how we come across that all that comes across is us and Christ isn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: able to come across because there's too many barriers to him and I think sometimes I think you see the health of couples marriages when they let each other age when they want to enjoy each other but they let each other age you know when sometimes I see women that are you know 50 and trying to look 25 and
[SPEAKER_00]: And you just wish there has been made them feel more secure in their marriage.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like are they scared?
[SPEAKER_00]: He's looking at 25-year-olds and wishing that was his wife, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think when a woman's able to age gracefully, and her husband, that tells of a security and Christ and his security and her husband's love for her.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do think there's just things that we
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... what you say what they're like intangibles there's so many intangibles when it comes to this and it's not necessarily did you get an injection did you not did you get a hormone did you not uh... but you can meet someone and know what their value system is and why they're doing what they're doing and and you can't you know and it's gonna be very person to person it is it's gonna be person to person yeah i mean i think there are some like you said some clear ethical boundaries when it comes to
[SPEAKER_01]: various products.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like, you know, this could objectively be called unethical.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by Christian standards, you know, you get into how animals are treated and all of a sudden, there's a split in how Christians view that stuff, though, you know, because it's like with humans, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's really obvious.
[SPEAKER_01]: But then you look at like some of the farming methods and many Christians would be like, that's not how God told us to, you know, treat animals into
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, to, yeah, I guess, steward that resource, but I, you know, it's funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: You brought up the whole like 25 year old thing and it's like you don't want to be competing with the 25 year olds your whole life.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's another funny thing that like Douglas Wilson said and I can't remember how he said it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He, you know, he always says things so funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's something like when the 21 year olds will always be 21 or like yeah, exactly so it's like when you're a newlywed and you're and you feel like you have to compete with the other 21 year olds or 25 year olds or whatever it is So you think you can hang and then it's like your 31 and look at that the 21 year old still 21 You know and then you're 45 and the 21 year olds.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's still 21 you know because there's oh yeah, there's just always another 21 year old
[SPEAKER_01]: coming up.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you don't want to be competing in, either way, right, with you, you want to be aging gracefully.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think you want to be winning your spouse over with godly attributes.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want those to be the thing, you want those to be the thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, your marriage to be like full filling out and deepening and richening what none of these words like and the same way like I wish they did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Growing in a richness that is not just dependent on aesthetic appeal and I think that is something that in early marriage is highly dependent on that is your initial draw to procreate so like.
[SPEAKER_00]: there's nothing wrong with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't I think drives are high at that stage and attractive this is high at that stage for a reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then but then hopefully it doesn't just stay there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hopefully the marriage doesn't stay in that place and it's able to broaden out.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that I think value systems can definitely play in like for instance.
[SPEAKER_00]: Having pregnancies and breastfeeding really take away a lot of vanity naturally because you're just having to submit to a process that is going to age you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just the way it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I even think of like injectables, like you can't get Botox, you can't get lipindructions, you can't do those things when you're pregnant or restfeeding.
[SPEAKER_00]: So like, you're only gonna look so strange if you can only get that done in a two month window.
[SPEAKER_00]: couple years you know what I'm saying like there are even surgeries like breast augmentations or things like that well I don't I'm not saying those are sinful surgeries to have or whatever but it's like those can only happen it's certain windows when you haven't been breastfeeding for a long period of time or maybe you don't want to do it until you're done breastfeeding you know there's like
[SPEAKER_00]: or pregnant, yeah, I mean, there's only very specific times when you could do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So sometimes I think of the Bible verse, I take this out of context all the time, but it says a woman shall be saved in child bearing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's so many things we're saved from.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really think we're saved from ourselves in a lot of ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes when we just stop child bearing, then we're able to look around and be like, wow, I am.
[SPEAKER_00]: now like a single 21 year old girl.
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe that's where I should be finding my that's where I should be looking for cops, you know?
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of like, no, the Lord has something different for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm in the service mode and there's only so much vanity that can be applied when you have all these other kids to get ready and this big life to live and only so many funds to spend.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, when you have to spend it on other people, it's like surgery options and injection options and these timeships, they kind of just, you don't have to make those decisions or even clothing options.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah, clothing, clothing, clothing, clothing, clothing, clothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the time that you have to shop, the finances that you have to shop, and then yeah, what fits, you know, so I really do think that when you are committed to a value system that God set up a lot of these things take care of themselves and then you're able to see, you know, okay, a hormone would really be like a helpful supplement at this period of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: is just from a very practical standpoint is nothing is too good to be true and there's always side effects and so almost everyone I know sometimes it is too good to be true yes nothing is too good to be true if it sounds too good to be true all right it's no I think you said right nothing is too good to be if it sounds too good to be true maybe it is that was your same maybe you said it right I don't know but I hope you guys get what I'm trying to say because I'm getting more
[SPEAKER_00]: So when it comes to, no, when it comes to like rapid weight loss with these things, you will pay for it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every person I've seen that has done rapid weight loss will lose their hair, have thin fingernails, and up with mental swings, in terms of mental health, it's your robbing new transformer body when you do it this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So while I
[SPEAKER_00]: will be the first to say if I had 150 pounds to lose, I might sign up for the side effects to get down to where it's seemed manageable.
[SPEAKER_00]: To start putting in the nutritional side of things, you know, but when you're starving your body or shutting down a hormone or shutting down a hunger sensor or any of these things,
[SPEAKER_00]: Then there are ramifications, and I think what we don't see with a lot of celebrities or people who do this Until you're up close and you know someone personally is The fake eyelashes and the fake nails and the fake extensions and the Fat put back into the body and all these things that are done is remedial
[SPEAKER_00]: Just follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Follow-up work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a pessimistic point of view.
[SPEAKER_00]: The more you say that, the more I'm like, you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think it applies to this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I do think you're right.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going back to the, if it seems to get to be, yeah, if it seems to get to be true, then probably is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because, and I think that there are a lot of times, you were talking about physical ramifications, and those can be quantified, I think, more just accurately and effectively, but I think there are other things that we lose when we don't actually go,
[SPEAKER_01]: But there is an order of events that I think God has in place.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can say, well, if you're 150 pounds overweight or 200 pounds overweight, you've clearly gotten an out of line with God's order.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe at some point a long way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So easy to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like with our, yeah, we're kind of set up to fail right now in our food system.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so whether or not you are doing it out of gluttony or just because it's the world you're brought up in, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because a lot of times kids don't, they're literally victims to,
[SPEAKER_01]: like the what the what they're being fed, you know, either in their home or by those schools or still feel victimized by.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, even as a doll, you can feel victims by, but somewhere along the line, you know, your lifestyle got out of got out of line with God's original intent.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you're thinking, okay, so then do we kind of jump the line in order to undo that or do we?
[SPEAKER_01]: go and try to undo it in more of a holistic way or a slower way because within that, there might be other things that aren't quantifiable like character development, spiritual growth, just patience and I don't know empathy or sympathy, whatever word you want to use there that might you might miss out on if you do the what it seems like the expedited route.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think of the people who I've seen these peptides really well, use them as a supplement to their nutritional regimen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they're working out every day, they're juicing, they're supplementing, they're eating super clean, and then they're supplementing with the peptide or they're supplementing with the hormone.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've seen that go really well for people,
[SPEAKER_00]: they're losing a little bit of weight at a time, their body's toning up a little bit at a time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's just a personal thing to decide with your husband and, you know, seeking the Lord on like, what is the best way to do?
[SPEAKER_00]: I so attempted to just move fast and break things for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I'm very American in terms of like, I would like instant results.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think that in the long term, it's not as ideal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and even, I mean, going back to the goal of, if you say you've got a hundred of you use that example, if you've got a hundred of you pounds to lose, your heart might be to move your body more and to eat healthier, but moving your bodies is just that much more challenging.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, going back to like, getting momentum on some level, totally.
[SPEAKER_01]: Really, okay, if we could just make it easier to walk around the block, then I'll start taking walks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I do think that that is always the goal is
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to say, well, I'm not going to give up this that or the other, so I'll try this.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like there's no way I'm going to start moving my body, so I'll take this thing instead, or I'm not going to stop these vices that I know are making me overweight or just making me unhealthy, so I'll do this instead.
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, I think that's when you can really start stacking those poor habits and you're trying to undo poor habits with like one, you know, miracle, anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a miracle pill or a miracle injection.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a source, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: want to think of two, there's, I do find a lot of comfort and looking at older, the older church and just traditionally what people have done and seeing what the value systems are.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's where you do see there is this element of death and growing older that is not appealing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, you know, we read that send brings death.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so therefore death does not look as good as you.
[SPEAKER_00]: age is the sign of death, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're getting closer and so we're physically dying.
[SPEAKER_00]: Cells are dying.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're replacing ourselves as quickly our cellular structure isn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: And but I think the beauty is that when you read about people in the past and their value system and then I even see like my grandmother is someone who everyone attests.
[SPEAKER_00]: got more beautiful and more regal the older she got and I think it was so beautiful because I think that like Christ in his supernatural grace as we grow in that is able to shine more brightly through us as we become more translucent like literally like our skin, our eyes, our hair like it all becomes it fades like it literally fades as we get older.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because as many people would attest to your grandma's beauty and creasing, it wasn't because of her to do anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: It can't be.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, she was like gray hair, but she got more controlled with her food.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was more self-disciplined.
[SPEAKER_00]: She did eat better.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she just...
[SPEAKER_00]: She was more tasteful even in her clothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: She was very intentional, but it was all to the glory of God.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it was not just to show, you know, she was such a classic dresser.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it wasn't about her.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was never about her.
[SPEAKER_00]: And she just got more and more stately and more and more.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you were just able to experience Christ more easily through her.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think there is this element of letting ourselves fade away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And let Christ shine through us more brightly.
[SPEAKER_00]: The people aren't going to be as distracted by how we look.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how we get more beautiful as we age.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is how it happens.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I do think when people are honest, there are things like wholesomeness, purity, grace, joy.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like you actually can see those things and how people adorn themselves.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like we're not honest with that sometimes.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we'll say, or it's like a cultural construct or something.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, no, there's a word that comes to mind when people look at certain people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're like, yeah, chacity, chacity, chacity, and those are the things that I think at any state, at any point in your Christian walk, both men and women, you want like humility, you want grace, you want love, you want kindness, you want selflessness, you know, it's not self-conceit to come out and how you're presenting yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, I just think that like when we're actually honest, people will start, you know when you see it and you know when it's not there, you know when it's loud or you know when it's very, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: think they're they're not the words that come to your mind when you think of Christ or when you think of a of a pure church is bride being brought before him and and I get like God does look on the inward but man looks on you know like man looks on the outward that's what we have to show forth to other men is is the outward appearance and so
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, can you, can it be a total fake?
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, of course people can look, chase and, you know, pure and, and, and be completely opposite of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's very cynical.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and in the, yeah, or hypocritical.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and so yeah, that obviously can exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: However, we still think of those words when we see, it still looks how it looks.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so how do you want to look in those, to people?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that's something that, like, as you're saying that, I'm constantly convicted by that one to grow in that area, because they're still there still tendencies to want to push myself forward and just be seen for me, you know, and instead of, okay, I really want the Lord to be glorified, how I'm going to dress, how I'm going to look instead of like, oh, I want to look great, you know,
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, you've grown so much and I think you've always been so tasteful and all these things, but recently you know how you've had a heart for hospitality, I think it's a very similar thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like when you bring people into your home, you want them to feel comfortable, you want them to feel rejuvenated and courage and exhorted and edified.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the same, you can have the same heart towards how you're presenting to people.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like how am I actually making them, am I setting ourselves up to have conversations that grow them and encourage them or not, you know, and I think that we can take that attitude in a ton of different areas and service, you know, hospitality whenever.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely, so anyways, I do think, again, I think if we would have listened to maybe the world-wide church at large, we things like, for instance, IVF, we wouldn't have gone there.
[SPEAKER_00]: because there were warning flags, say, hey, this is an ethical.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think just like having an ear to the ground to rumblings of a bigger Christianity, it's a whole outside of Evangelical Christianity, I think it's something too that's kind of like, okay, when it comes to peptides, when it comes to these things, kind of what is the general consensus considering the ethicalness?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what are the ditches to fall in?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially considering that, you know, up until recently, these were being used and kind of optimized by people that were like self-identifying as biohackers and people that really were devoting their life to like not dying, you know, and to maintain it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's just not a Christian world view.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like we Christians don't devote their life to not dying.
[SPEAKER_01]: As we've said before, survival is not the goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think even looking at the motivation in people bringing these to pop,
[SPEAKER_01]: popularity is worth considering.
[SPEAKER_01]: Doesn't mean that they're all bad or they're not good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like of course there are things but it's worth considering I think that These have become so mainstream because of people that have idolized in my in my mind health and longevity so forth.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, just being willing to accept it, guess there's like this balance of wanting to grow and steward our bodies to serve our spouse and serve our kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I think I've also got caught in the traps and times of thinking, that is the goal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Instead of like, well, my goal is to serve Christ and glorify him.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some people do that in a very sick state.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people do that in a very unattractive state.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people do that in a state that is unattractive to everybody else actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's not like they're like, I won't want you to have.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think we're always told like someone's going to come and
[SPEAKER_00]: be like, I want what you have.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want the gospel.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want you know, people come to my mom and ask that all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, she's this gorgeous glowing blonde with 11 kids and somehow makes it all look effortless.
[SPEAKER_00]: She does so with Christ's grace.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's what she said.
[SPEAKER_00]: She would tell it like she radiates Christ.
[SPEAKER_00]: But a woman that is walking in the righteousness that my mom was walking in.
[SPEAKER_00]: and doesn't look the same way, might not have, and doesn't have the same health or genetics, so whatever, probably doesn't have the same number of women coming up during saying, I won't want you have.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that doesn't mean that she's not living out the devout life that God has called her to.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think getting away from even that aesthetic world and assuming that as Christians were always going to be the most vibrant and energetic and full of life.
[SPEAKER_00]: exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: And just be like, hey, no one might, but people might not want my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like at one point, just look like poverty and too many kids and too many rank calls that I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But that's not, but as long as it's serving God and a listener are unified and serving him, that's actually what we're here to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: And our ministry might look different than
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you taking?
[SPEAKER_00]: What are you taking?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sounds good point.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, well folks, thank you all so much for listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: But as always, we'd love to hear your thoughts.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we really would.
[SPEAKER_01]: In the comments.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're still taking notes for what we're 14.50.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm still taking, doing research for menopause, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's not going to be for like 35 years.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for a good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay folks, talk to you soon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Bye-bye.