WEBVTT 00:03.256 --> 00:05.377 [SPEAKER_00]: That's a gay app name for a gay app podcast. 00:06.077 --> 00:09.578 [SPEAKER_01]: Gunner Montana is on that's a gay as a podcast. 00:09.598 --> 00:12.379 [SPEAKER_01]: And he truly are a renaissance person. 00:12.539 --> 00:23.682 [SPEAKER_01]: It's giving dancer, producer, wood worker, social media, master, choreographer, a hornier than me. 00:23.742 --> 00:26.763 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll find out, Gunner, thank you so much for doing this podcast. 00:26.823 --> 00:28.183 [SPEAKER_01]: I've become such a big fan of yours. 00:28.223 --> 00:29.764 [SPEAKER_01]: It is a dream to chat with you here. 00:30.675 --> 00:30.935 [SPEAKER_02]: Awesome. 00:30.955 --> 00:31.295 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. 00:31.435 --> 00:33.836 [SPEAKER_02]: Are you have been popping up on my algorithm as well? 00:34.256 --> 00:35.637 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was like, Oh, yeah. 00:36.297 --> 00:37.077 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. 00:37.177 --> 00:38.278 [SPEAKER_02]: That is on friend. 00:38.378 --> 00:39.018 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's go. 00:39.038 --> 00:39.498 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 00:39.518 --> 00:41.939 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, you really are a gay ass icon. 00:41.959 --> 00:43.640 [SPEAKER_01]: And there's so much for us to unpack. 00:43.660 --> 00:44.900 [SPEAKER_01]: I've done a lot of research. 00:44.940 --> 00:47.901 [SPEAKER_01]: But since I am a gay journalist question number one, 00:55.025 --> 01:03.244 [SPEAKER_02]: I have been green for like a couple years now, and usually I cycle through them and it's kind of like more rainbow, but the green stick and I really like it with the red beard, you know. 01:04.278 --> 01:06.420 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, love the greatest red beard. 01:06.780 --> 01:07.420 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it giving? 01:07.560 --> 01:08.181 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you giving? 01:08.381 --> 01:09.061 [SPEAKER_01]: Skulltish. 01:09.141 --> 01:10.262 [SPEAKER_01]: Where's the red beard from? 01:10.282 --> 01:11.403 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 01:11.423 --> 01:11.923 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a might. 01:12.063 --> 01:13.824 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm a white might. 01:14.145 --> 01:14.765 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't care. 01:14.805 --> 01:15.345 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 01:15.365 --> 01:17.527 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, they're all over there for sure. 01:18.087 --> 01:21.770 [SPEAKER_01]: A white might who lives in Philadelphia if I'm correct. 01:22.030 --> 01:26.413 [SPEAKER_01]: You also are about to be turning the big three seven. 01:26.493 --> 01:28.394 [SPEAKER_01]: So happy early birthday to you. 01:28.414 --> 01:28.934 [SPEAKER_01]: Thank you. 01:29.895 --> 01:31.237 [SPEAKER_01]: How do we feel about the birthday? 01:31.257 --> 01:32.017 [SPEAKER_01]: We're the same age. 01:32.097 --> 01:36.302 [SPEAKER_01]: I turned 37 a few months after you so how are you feeling going into this next year? 01:37.088 --> 01:37.708 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I feel great. 01:37.728 --> 01:48.195 [SPEAKER_02]: I can't wait to get to 40 actually, um, I'm kind of over all the young, buckble stuff, you know, and like, I'm ready to like dig in and I feel like I know myself very well now. 01:48.956 --> 01:54.099 [SPEAKER_02]: I've been going through big transitions in my life and I'm just ready to be mellow and calm and cool and cool. 01:54.119 --> 01:56.861 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and just like knock it out of the park for the new. 01:56.881 --> 01:59.683 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's so many, so many cultures. 02:00.063 --> 02:06.488 [SPEAKER_01]: I think fear getting older, like I live in LA, we're like the idea of aging is like a terrifying spirit. 02:07.208 --> 02:07.949 [SPEAKER_02]: How are you guys doing? 02:07.969 --> 02:08.669 [SPEAKER_01]: I think scared of it. 02:09.089 --> 02:10.270 [SPEAKER_01]: I know you walk around. 02:10.290 --> 02:12.451 [SPEAKER_01]: You see people white knuckling their purses. 02:12.471 --> 02:14.252 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, no, no, no, it doesn't care that much. 02:15.133 --> 02:15.653 [SPEAKER_01]: Kind of build off you. 02:15.693 --> 02:16.454 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like whatever. 02:16.874 --> 02:18.515 [SPEAKER_01]: We've a smile lines. 02:18.815 --> 02:19.956 [SPEAKER_01]: That means I live a happy life. 02:20.156 --> 02:34.204 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I think I think I think the part of it and if I make it a little deep on your ass here is I think maybe us gay guys should be embracing more of the getting older because so many of our people before 02:35.985 --> 02:41.048 [SPEAKER_01]: Why not let turning 40, which obviously we're not there yet, but we're getting there. 02:41.068 --> 02:42.690 [SPEAKER_01]: Like that is should be like a huge milestone. 02:42.710 --> 02:44.190 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, isn't it like we survived? 02:44.271 --> 02:50.014 [SPEAKER_02]: Shouldn't that be what we, I'm so into it, I'm so into these crow's feet that are showing up. 02:50.295 --> 02:52.896 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna hit daddy at like the height of daddy. 02:53.096 --> 02:55.998 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, I'm into daddy's myself. 02:56.038 --> 02:57.259 [SPEAKER_02]: Like I totally get it. 02:57.719 --> 03:00.061 [SPEAKER_02]: Like the more rough and tumble you look, the more I'm into it. 03:00.121 --> 03:01.442 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, yeah, that's probably. 03:01.562 --> 03:06.485 [SPEAKER_02]: That's probably the Montana coming out in me, but like, you know, total kink mode for dad. 03:07.006 --> 03:16.992 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, kink mode for dad is going to be your next hit single, but also it's going to be a big point of discussion when we go to sub stack at the end of this, because I do want to hear about the kinks. 03:17.012 --> 03:18.373 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to hear for the daddy and this of it all. 03:18.714 --> 03:26.078 [SPEAKER_01]: You also, we'll talk a little bit about it during this, but I'll hold it for a second, but just to touch on, you were got out of an 11 year relationship last year. 03:26.158 --> 03:28.180 [SPEAKER_01]: So it does seem like you are having these big changes. 03:28.560 --> 03:32.385 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I want to kind of talk about those changes and yes, leaning into the dabiness of it all. 03:32.665 --> 03:36.690 [SPEAKER_01]: But wait a minute from the Montana side of the story. 03:37.030 --> 03:39.373 [SPEAKER_01]: Gunner Montana is this giving birth name? 03:39.473 --> 03:40.694 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it giving stage name? 03:40.814 --> 03:41.195 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you? 03:41.335 --> 03:42.476 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have Montana roots? 03:42.556 --> 03:43.518 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the edamal? 03:45.007 --> 04:03.181 [SPEAKER_02]: It's giving stage name grew up in Montana and it was a mistake with a Facebook profile that went wrong like a while ago and people just started calling me it and then I like the separation of personal and professional have a lot of people know my real name, you know. 04:04.202 --> 04:15.467 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well obviously I'm not going to ask it, but if you were to I just want to like the comparison like if you were to sort of categorize your birth name is a giving like boring American 04:16.893 --> 04:17.314 [SPEAKER_02]: 100%. 04:17.394 --> 04:18.855 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, okay. 04:20.016 --> 04:20.876 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so yeah. 04:21.277 --> 04:29.703 [SPEAKER_01]: So Gunner Montana is a delicious name and I think it's a perfect segue into asking the famous podcast questions since we can get into your lore. 04:30.083 --> 04:34.446 [SPEAKER_01]: So Gunner, let's ask whose fault is it that you're gay? 04:34.506 --> 04:36.087 [SPEAKER_02]: Who do we blame, babe? 04:36.268 --> 04:37.749 [SPEAKER_02]: How do we blame so many people? 04:38.149 --> 04:44.413 [SPEAKER_02]: I was thinking about this and I think I can narrow it down to never been kissed Michael Varton. 04:45.258 --> 04:56.412 [SPEAKER_02]: That's like my first time I saw a man and I fell like over the top in love with somebody I wrote him letters after that literally found his 04:58.319 --> 05:04.425 [SPEAKER_02]: found like any kind of like address I could find with him broke him letters coming out him and I didn't even know what coming out was. 05:04.445 --> 05:08.850 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like head over heels for this guy. 05:08.870 --> 05:12.534 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't even remember when I would remember when I watched it. 05:12.554 --> 05:13.655 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't remember how young I was. 05:13.675 --> 05:17.639 [SPEAKER_02]: This was just like I was writing them behind my parents back, sending them away. 05:17.659 --> 05:18.520 [SPEAKER_02]: So like 05:20.182 --> 05:32.070 [SPEAKER_02]: Furiously jealous over Drew Barrymore, just like so frustrated with her that she took that opportunity away from me Well, who will muck us has not been devastatingly jealous of Drew Barrymore? 05:32.570 --> 05:39.335 [SPEAKER_01]: Also, um, I have to say that you coming up before even knowing what coming out was is sort of a beautiful 05:40.175 --> 05:58.307 [SPEAKER_01]: excavation of you you finding out like you finding out gainus before you actually knew we're told what it was because Michael Vartan, I think to me, was one of the first datties, can I say that he's a daddy, one of the first datties I was obsessed with as well. 05:58.347 --> 06:03.290 [SPEAKER_01]: He wore that crisp blue button down and I wanted to just climb that and tear it off of him. 06:04.030 --> 06:06.131 [SPEAKER_02]: He was like a dad, a little like us. 06:06.171 --> 06:11.493 [SPEAKER_02]: He was a dad then, I guess, but he was just like, my first dad crash. 06:12.893 --> 06:16.474 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and it was definitely like, I don't know why I have these feelings. 06:16.814 --> 06:20.996 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what gay means, but I know I have very strong feelings for you, sir. 06:21.336 --> 06:21.656 [SPEAKER_02]: You know? 06:22.076 --> 06:22.296 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 06:22.736 --> 06:26.878 [SPEAKER_01]: Did um, I think it has where to guess, uh, you never heard back from the fan mail you sent? 06:27.818 --> 06:30.779 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I sent a lot of fan mail because I was such a fan girly. 06:31.159 --> 06:57.986 [SPEAKER_02]: Like in my young years and I would get these books because I was living in Romantana and I just wanted to be a star I wanted to be surrounded by star all the time my whole life and I was like so I just sent and then they would have these like these Really bizarre addresses you could send all these celebrities just letters and their books of them You know in the raw like fake addresses, but I sent a couple out I think I got one back from Sarah Michelle Geller and it was like a sign headshot and who knows if it was real or not But it was like I did that a lot. 06:58.006 --> 06:59.587 [SPEAKER_02]: There's nothing to do in Romantana so 07:00.107 --> 07:02.930 [SPEAKER_01]: except send letters to PO boxes around the country. 07:03.050 --> 07:04.591 [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm stalker vibes, yeah. 07:04.931 --> 07:12.999 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that Sarah Michelle Geller had a very sweet 22 year old assistant who stamped her signature on that headshot. 07:13.259 --> 07:17.062 [SPEAKER_01]: And that assistant, we say, thank you for your cervix. 07:18.003 --> 07:24.489 [SPEAKER_01]: I also say to Gunner, you knew you were a star from the jump and I find that to be so incredible. 07:24.769 --> 07:26.851 [SPEAKER_01]: Especially thinking about rural Montana, like 07:27.832 --> 07:39.445 [SPEAKER_01]: Isn't that beautiful to know that no matter where you're born, the fabulousness can't help but come out of you like what part of Montana or did you grow up and was it would be a town name that I know? 07:40.467 --> 07:41.228 [SPEAKER_02]: No, absolutely not. 07:41.268 --> 07:47.655 [SPEAKER_02]: This is like rural town of a thousand people like right next to Idaho trout creek. 07:47.695 --> 07:51.919 [SPEAKER_02]: It's called like really small town like nobody lives there. 07:52.219 --> 07:56.243 [SPEAKER_02]: Actually, actually a lot of people reach out to me now and are like, hey, you still live here. 07:56.263 --> 07:57.224 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, it's really cool. 07:57.885 --> 07:59.226 [SPEAKER_01]: Now that is very cool. 07:59.506 --> 08:11.271 [SPEAKER_01]: When I first started this podcast, I feel like I sort of talked down to people who by accident who didn't live in major cities because I was dealing with my own trauma of like feeling so alone. 08:11.331 --> 08:14.412 [SPEAKER_01]: But the more I do this, the more I'm like it's actually the opposite. 08:14.432 --> 08:18.074 [SPEAKER_01]: We need to like celebrate the queer people who are in these rural towns. 08:18.114 --> 08:18.714 [SPEAKER_01]: We need to like 08:20.096 --> 08:24.867 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, tell them that their bad asses because they are because we need to have more queerness around the country. 08:24.887 --> 08:29.858 [SPEAKER_01]: But did you have your first boy boy kiss in Montana or did you wait till you got out? 08:31.115 --> 08:33.396 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I had gotten out by then. 08:33.956 --> 08:37.018 [SPEAKER_02]: I had my first gay bullies in Montana. 08:37.618 --> 08:41.819 [SPEAKER_02]: Sure, but I definitely got hit before I got kissed. 08:43.020 --> 08:50.803 [SPEAKER_02]: But I wasn't till like, I think I was later, almost like the year before I went to college that I was actually kissing kissing boys. 08:52.204 --> 08:58.847 [SPEAKER_01]: And that was the University of the Arts where you got a BFA in modern dance performance. 09:04.781 --> 09:07.384 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm also just a stalk truss. 09:07.464 --> 09:17.033 [SPEAKER_01]: Also loving the BFA life, I have a BFA in drama and so we both What some might call useless degrees, but we feel like they did not know us 09:18.090 --> 09:42.613 [SPEAKER_01]: they'd say quit a role in my rat now it feels you know I think so well let let me just okay so some people might not follow here and they're certainly going to after this episode because I have to say that I am relatively new to the Gunner Montana fandom but I've been pouring over your stuff and it's truly impressive I think what's so impressive is that you are really like a multi-hifin it and I know that phrase is sort of cringing over you's now but 09:43.013 --> 09:57.452 [SPEAKER_01]: you are able to create in this amazing warehouse space, you work with brands with our exhibitions, you've worked with amazing organizations, you are an incredible dancer, you are also giving 10:01.437 --> 10:10.306 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know how you were able to develop all of these skills, but where would you say in terms of like the construction that you've done in bringing a lot of these designs to life? 10:10.686 --> 10:12.228 [SPEAKER_01]: Where does the book side come from? 10:12.288 --> 10:13.449 [SPEAKER_01]: What is it the Montana in you? 10:14.283 --> 10:40.815 [SPEAKER_02]: definitely yeah my dad like his way of fathering was to put you to work so he was like a immediate like work ethic that got developed so now I I equate hard work with love so I'm always working as hard as I can physically to find purpose or love you know so it's deep but it works really well when you are an independent artist and you actually need to do a lot of work to get ahead in that world which is the tough world to live in 10:41.415 --> 10:42.096 [SPEAKER_02]: 100%. 10:42.176 --> 10:52.983 [SPEAKER_01]: I think what inspires me most is that you have allowed yourself to take big swings and not let the fear of failure stop you from doing that. 10:53.644 --> 10:55.545 [SPEAKER_01]: It took me years to start a podcast. 10:55.585 --> 10:58.747 [SPEAKER_01]: It took me years to put out this solo show that I finally started touring. 10:58.767 --> 11:01.169 [SPEAKER_01]: And when I say years, I mean like a lot of years. 11:01.630 --> 11:07.374 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I'm now getting into my late 30s, finally gaining the confidence to not worry about failure. 11:07.394 --> 11:09.075 [SPEAKER_01]: But it kind of seems like you've been developing these 11:09.695 --> 11:10.515 [SPEAKER_01]: for a long time. 11:11.075 --> 11:25.139 [SPEAKER_01]: What's the deal with your relationship with your family now since you have obviously grown out of the rural Montana sort of normal tradition and become this very queer icon dare I say? 11:25.379 --> 11:27.180 [SPEAKER_01]: How does your family feel about it? 11:28.248 --> 11:28.568 [SPEAKER_02]: They're great. 11:28.709 --> 11:30.150 [SPEAKER_02]: My family has always been amazing. 11:31.090 --> 11:31.851 [SPEAKER_02]: My father. 11:31.871 --> 11:35.314 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have as much of a relationship with him But that feels like the norm. 11:35.414 --> 11:39.417 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if he knew what to do without all of this These poor straight guys. 11:39.457 --> 11:40.858 [SPEAKER_02]: They never know what they're gonna themselves into. 11:40.958 --> 11:46.382 [SPEAKER_01]: I want to applaud the reframe you're doing there because a lot of times I give straight men shit But I think we can give them pity. 11:46.422 --> 11:49.625 [SPEAKER_01]: I think they do deserve pity because they were born into a world 11:50.165 --> 12:03.073 [SPEAKER_01]: that gave them a very limited set of tools and they don't know how to deal with someone like you, which is a gift, but to them it's just like, you know, a foreign animal that they don't know how to tame. 12:03.910 --> 12:04.250 [SPEAKER_02]: for sure. 12:04.270 --> 12:07.591 [SPEAKER_02]: And when I wake up some mornings, I myself don't even know how to handle me. 12:08.151 --> 12:18.293 [SPEAKER_02]: So I can't imagine being the father of a kid that is 10,000 times this and just not having any tools to use that regard. 12:18.834 --> 12:21.174 [SPEAKER_02]: So I hold a lot of compassion for that man. 12:21.194 --> 12:23.315 [SPEAKER_02]: He did the best he could with what he had. 12:23.335 --> 12:29.716 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have any sadness over a relationship you wish you had with him or you 12:33.942 --> 12:38.126 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, I've kind of just diverted that energy into having a kink for dads. 12:38.386 --> 12:44.693 [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's what happens, you know, I couldn't, and that's only one younger life. 12:44.793 --> 12:48.977 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm always looking for it in my own or like, you know, how's it going? 12:48.997 --> 12:49.778 [SPEAKER_01]: How's your search going? 12:50.779 --> 12:52.420 [SPEAKER_02]: It's, it's always good. 12:53.914 --> 12:55.196 [SPEAKER_02]: I love to find a good dad. 12:55.256 --> 13:07.551 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm trying not to go for dads because I do have a pattern of dads and be taking care of by older men that I am breaking, moving forward with my life because it has not served me. 13:08.292 --> 13:08.572 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 13:08.612 --> 13:09.614 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's... 13:09.654 --> 13:10.214 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm leaving. 13:12.024 --> 13:14.425 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, well, we all have relationship patterns. 13:14.545 --> 13:17.307 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I three straight brothers who all married my mom. 13:17.467 --> 13:24.431 [SPEAKER_01]: So like, it is what it is Santa as Mariah Carey once said, um, you got out of an 11 year relationship. 13:24.511 --> 13:29.434 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you categorize your ex as daddy or would you say that was a different. 13:29.714 --> 13:29.934 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 13:30.374 --> 13:37.098 [SPEAKER_02]: Like CEO daddy, Tucker, Sue every day, like very put together loves a spreadsheet, you know, 13:37.838 --> 13:39.059 [SPEAKER_02]: I fall hard for that type. 13:39.900 --> 13:41.281 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, how could you not? 13:41.381 --> 13:44.243 [SPEAKER_01]: I, you know, are so aligned on that politically. 13:44.263 --> 13:44.844 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 13:44.904 --> 13:49.567 [SPEAKER_01]: But something you posted in January really, really struck me. 13:49.808 --> 13:52.950 [SPEAKER_01]: In January you posted 13 new mindset shifts. 13:53.010 --> 13:55.552 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be working on after an 11 year relationship. 13:55.932 --> 13:59.715 [SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things that you said was being single isn't a failure. 14:00.456 --> 14:01.517 [SPEAKER_01]: I really think that 14:02.582 --> 14:12.010 [SPEAKER_01]: the world society places the idea of being in a relationship as raising your value and I'm very happy in my relationship. 14:12.110 --> 14:19.317 [SPEAKER_01]: I love my husband but I do know that one of the reasons why I think I was so intent on finding a partner. 14:19.777 --> 14:24.762 [SPEAKER_01]: We met when we were 24 very young and I think one of those reasons is that I kind of knew deep down. 14:25.282 --> 14:29.723 [SPEAKER_01]: that I would have quote unquote more value if I had a partner. 14:30.403 --> 14:38.285 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's something that now, I feel frustrated that that's how the world sort of perceives value. 14:38.785 --> 14:42.125 [SPEAKER_01]: How are you feeling about being a single clean? 14:42.265 --> 14:45.426 [SPEAKER_01]: And where do you think we got the idea of being in a relationship as better? 14:47.446 --> 14:49.247 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's a heteronormative thing, right? 14:49.267 --> 14:50.007 [SPEAKER_02]: Because everybody's young. 14:51.162 --> 15:07.603 [SPEAKER_02]: guide you to have children so they make it this like the most amazing thing you could possibly do is have a partner and have kids and it's all just like what we created to you know live a life yeah do you are you someone who wanted one kids wanted to have kids what's that like 15:08.515 --> 15:11.259 [SPEAKER_02]: No, my child is my art form for the most part. 15:11.419 --> 15:12.861 [SPEAKER_02]: It kind of sucks up all my energy. 15:12.881 --> 15:14.322 [SPEAKER_02]: It is what I give everything to. 15:15.023 --> 15:22.613 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't have a lot of, I barely have like energy in time to outside of that, to have a relationship much less than another little one, you know? 15:22.873 --> 15:25.036 [SPEAKER_02]: I like kids, I think they're great, but not for me. 15:27.251 --> 15:30.334 [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, this single thing, I did that break up. 15:30.394 --> 15:31.795 [SPEAKER_02]: It was a huge life switch. 15:31.875 --> 15:36.579 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm talking like one of that you write books about, like the big ones that totally all through your life. 15:36.599 --> 15:42.204 [SPEAKER_02]: Like 11 years is a very long time to be with somebody, and then you switch it on the diamond all of a sudden you're alone again and all that stuff. 15:42.944 --> 15:52.132 [SPEAKER_02]: So what I did was I went to New Zealand and I hacked around for three months by myself, and kind of came up with all these kind of things I wanted to work on and cried a lot and kind of out of my system. 15:53.253 --> 16:02.340 [SPEAKER_02]: And then came back here to kind of like work through a bunch of that stuff and I got very, very comfortable with myself as a person and my philosophy is I think it's great to be single. 16:02.420 --> 16:03.821 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's great to be in love with yourself. 16:04.001 --> 16:04.982 [SPEAKER_02]: I find it very boring. 16:05.902 --> 16:10.166 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I just think I enjoy sharing my life with somebody. 16:10.186 --> 16:12.968 [SPEAKER_02]: I find a lot of value in that to be witnessed through life. 16:13.388 --> 16:15.349 [SPEAKER_02]: I can win it for myself all day every day. 16:15.450 --> 16:17.771 [SPEAKER_02]: I work like 80% of my day alone. 16:17.871 --> 16:19.112 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, I'm going. 16:20.193 --> 16:28.519 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the universe that sent you to me because I was feeling very, very burnt out. 16:28.539 --> 16:32.122 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, my art quote unquote is my life as well. 16:32.362 --> 16:35.765 [SPEAKER_01]: And I've, and I spent so much time alone. 16:35.785 --> 16:38.347 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, recording this podcast in a room by myself. 16:38.487 --> 16:39.768 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm, I'm at whatever. 16:40.288 --> 16:51.857 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I went to San Diego for a solo trip to just like kind of get out and you have a refresh and I felt the same thing, which was that, you know, I can be by myself and I can enjoy it, but I really do. 16:52.685 --> 16:55.186 [SPEAKER_01]: get off on connecting with other people. 16:55.306 --> 17:04.911 [SPEAKER_01]: And so for my next trip whenever that will be, I think it'll be like visiting close friends in a different city or finding a way to connect with community. 17:04.991 --> 17:07.792 [SPEAKER_01]: And like I did go to San Diego gay bars and met some really great gays. 17:08.312 --> 17:14.175 [SPEAKER_01]: I did spend a ton of time more time than I wanted to looking at the apps, like on the scruff and the sniffies of it all. 17:14.215 --> 17:18.857 [SPEAKER_01]: And so I just deleted those and that has days ago and I'm already feeling a shift from that. 17:19.699 --> 17:23.672 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, good luck, but I think it's I think it's we just a good luck with that 17:25.723 --> 17:25.963 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you? 17:26.003 --> 17:26.943 [SPEAKER_02]: I was just deleting. 17:26.983 --> 17:27.844 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 17:27.904 --> 17:34.145 [SPEAKER_01]: That's what I literally tell us all this time, but I'll let you know when I read down them. 17:34.345 --> 17:35.165 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you crying? 17:35.245 --> 17:36.426 [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you on it. 17:36.506 --> 17:39.546 [SPEAKER_02]: I got them on them for the first time after my relationship. 17:40.086 --> 17:41.607 [SPEAKER_02]: And I think they're terrifying. 17:42.047 --> 17:42.527 [SPEAKER_02]: Of course. 17:43.107 --> 17:45.868 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I can enjoy them. 17:45.888 --> 17:48.708 [SPEAKER_02]: And we can talk about this in the after hours podcast. 17:49.329 --> 17:54.050 [SPEAKER_02]: But I was celebrate for seven years of this past relationship for the last seven years of 17:56.171 --> 17:58.793 [SPEAKER_02]: and it was, it was wild. 17:59.013 --> 17:59.813 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how I did it. 17:59.954 --> 18:01.094 [SPEAKER_02]: I was in a weird place. 18:01.355 --> 18:04.277 [SPEAKER_02]: It was a very bizarre relationship in year, seven years. 18:04.297 --> 18:04.397 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 18:06.824 --> 18:08.245 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I wasn't having sex. 18:08.385 --> 18:09.185 [SPEAKER_02]: Isn't that wild? 18:09.725 --> 18:10.486 [SPEAKER_02]: Which is wild? 18:10.506 --> 18:18.309 [SPEAKER_02]: Because I have such an outwardly sexual persona, especially online, that, like, I think I was channeling a lot of it through that. 18:19.609 --> 18:21.250 [SPEAKER_02]: And I was getting a lot of it out there. 18:21.330 --> 18:22.591 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm a very creative person. 18:22.611 --> 18:25.952 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's kind of the same shock of being creative and having sex. 18:26.272 --> 18:29.414 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was getting a lot of the energy out just being as creative as I am. 18:30.514 --> 18:38.761 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, but after all, it's like kidding a candy store like figuring all this out for myself as an adult for the first time. 18:38.781 --> 18:41.123 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's, it's, you know, why? 18:41.163 --> 18:41.443 [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely. 18:41.463 --> 18:59.057 [SPEAKER_01]: We will absolutely, we will absolutely dive into this for the substock portion because you must be having so many realizations, so many adventures and that is, I know, I'm in a different version of that, but the same idea, like I wasn't on the apps until a few years ago and um, 19:00.157 --> 19:06.641 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, it's really interesting to sort of have a second adolescence in your 30s and to really find some. 19:07.122 --> 19:07.822 [SPEAKER_01]: It is awesome. 19:07.842 --> 19:17.808 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah, it's very true that we do not need to put a timeline on like when we have to hit a certain goal or stop growing. 19:17.868 --> 19:20.430 [SPEAKER_01]: I do think that like we're always gonna every decade have. 19:21.611 --> 19:26.455 [SPEAKER_01]: a new sort of subject that we are learning about in our lives. 19:27.376 --> 19:34.603 [SPEAKER_01]: Something that you did also say for the mindset shifts post your 11 year relationship as you said trust isn't gone. 19:35.024 --> 19:40.209 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't let someone else's infidelity and lack of integrity rewrite how you see others. 19:40.749 --> 19:45.634 [SPEAKER_01]: And then you said sit close to your pain so you don't project it going forward. 19:46.281 --> 19:47.082 [SPEAKER_01]: two things there. 19:47.362 --> 19:56.929 [SPEAKER_01]: Number one, I was projecting a lot of my own shit onto my husband and I've had realized that in recent years, so I think we need to highlight that for a second. 19:57.369 --> 20:01.732 [SPEAKER_01]: But the infidelity of it all, I think is very common in any community. 20:02.413 --> 20:10.279 [SPEAKER_01]: The queer community, it can be an interesting idea, especially for queer men when it comes like there's a lot of nominogamy and so how does cheating look like in there? 20:10.819 --> 20:13.901 [SPEAKER_01]: But when it comes to the trust of it all, how is your trust doing now? 20:13.981 --> 20:16.203 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like four or five months later since you posted that. 20:16.243 --> 20:20.426 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you feeling like you're able to trust or you're still on a path? 20:21.266 --> 20:22.427 [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's an even flow, right? 20:22.447 --> 20:32.394 [SPEAKER_02]: So the and infidelity was a big theme of how this relationship ended and What I had to come terms with was that has nothing to do with me and that was not my call and that wasn't 20:33.235 --> 20:35.197 [SPEAKER_02]: anything that I would ever do to anybody, you know? 20:35.297 --> 20:57.213 [SPEAKER_02]: So, so it's coming to terms with like, you have it's less about like this trust that you, this distrust in people and more about just kind of trusting yourself again to choose the right person again because you don't, you don't trust yourself because you're like, oh my god, I just spent so much time with somebody and it all went awry and I just thought it was so different how am I supposed to trust myself 21:00.896 --> 21:08.442 [SPEAKER_02]: When I see people now, it's really great because I can filter out a lot of things after having that kind of breakthrough in a relationship. 21:09.022 --> 21:14.646 [SPEAKER_02]: I see a lot of red flags very fast now and I can filter people out really, really quickly. 21:15.227 --> 21:16.748 [SPEAKER_02]: So that's really wonderful. 21:17.068 --> 21:25.074 [SPEAKER_02]: But once I get closer to people, I have this butterfly response that takes a lot of therapy and it takes a lot of time to kind of filter through for yourself. 21:25.435 --> 21:28.617 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what we're not going to do with anybody else and everything to do with you, you know. 21:28.777 --> 21:33.499 [SPEAKER_01]: So, well, we show out our therapy and we also shout out trusting our own guts. 21:33.979 --> 21:39.581 [SPEAKER_01]: I have very much struggled with that and I'm trying, and I'm working on it every day. 21:39.881 --> 21:43.422 [SPEAKER_01]: What are red flags when it comes to dating someone that you, it's an immediate no for you? 21:45.016 --> 21:50.161 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, any kind of drug use, any kind of, uh, a lot of alcohol use. 21:50.181 --> 21:52.943 [SPEAKER_02]: So drinking a lot, I've been sober 10 years as well. 21:53.564 --> 21:55.505 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't do any of that. 21:55.525 --> 22:00.569 [SPEAKER_02]: It's a waste of my time to have to navigate somebody's drinking issues or drug stuff. 22:01.130 --> 22:07.756 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, if you can't, if I ask you a question that has a deeper meaning, you have to be able to respond to that. 22:08.376 --> 22:09.256 [SPEAKER_02]: you can't just sit there. 22:09.696 --> 22:21.599 [SPEAKER_02]: So if I'm asking you deep stuff about your childhood or what you think about this or like, you know, and trying to get to the root of something you have to ignite something in me that makes me think you can have conversations like that going forward on your level, you know? 22:22.239 --> 22:28.601 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, that I find can be hard with men specifically because so many men are unable to 22:29.481 --> 22:32.405 [SPEAKER_01]: have vulnerable or emotional conversations. 22:32.525 --> 22:37.851 [SPEAKER_01]: Obviously a lot of us do and thank God, but that's like the same the lack of tools. 22:37.911 --> 22:40.594 [SPEAKER_02]: Again, let's blame the lack of tools from society again. 22:40.735 --> 22:43.898 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but society gonna sucks society. 22:44.139 --> 22:47.042 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you did say that. 22:47.903 --> 22:48.824 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no I real. 22:48.924 --> 22:49.105 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 22:49.665 --> 22:53.109 [SPEAKER_01]: It is real, but can I give you a big miles of top on the 10 years of sobriety? 22:53.169 --> 22:55.872 [SPEAKER_01]: That is unbeatable. 22:56.133 --> 23:01.539 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you comfortable telling us what precipitated the decision to go full sob? 23:02.818 --> 23:06.319 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I have a addiction problem with everything. 23:06.619 --> 23:08.900 [SPEAKER_02]: So it can be art. 23:09.080 --> 23:10.040 [SPEAKER_02]: It can be people. 23:10.100 --> 23:11.440 [SPEAKER_02]: It can be drugs. 23:11.580 --> 23:12.901 [SPEAKER_02]: Some things are more than others. 23:12.941 --> 23:14.441 [SPEAKER_02]: Some things are great to be addicted to. 23:15.681 --> 23:16.542 [SPEAKER_02]: Some things not so much. 23:16.562 --> 23:18.402 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I have exotic frogs. 23:18.422 --> 23:20.022 [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I can't just have one frog. 23:20.062 --> 23:21.023 [SPEAKER_02]: I have to have 11. 23:21.083 --> 23:22.203 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, so it's like, 23:22.523 --> 23:48.025 [SPEAKER_02]: it's this kind of like more is more mentality so once I started doing stuff that kind of ignites that more like drinking cocaine all that stuff I was like oh this can get really out of hand really fast so let me you know this back I spent my most of my childhood in AA meetings with my folks so it's a common theme in my family oh wow so I could see where it was going I could see where it would end up and I was like you know what let me just stop this while on 23:50.387 --> 23:51.368 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's been awesome. 23:51.728 --> 23:53.289 [SPEAKER_02]: It's been the best thing for myself. 23:53.529 --> 24:03.395 [SPEAKER_01]: It's so, it's a gift you're giving yourself to sort of play the tape forward and to sort of heal the future version of yourself or give the gift to that future version. 24:04.095 --> 24:16.383 [SPEAKER_01]: Would you say then that if you sort of have an obsessive personality, it's not only in your family, but you tend to fix it on things, have you replaced maybe the addiction on substance with something else that's just more productive or positive? 24:16.423 --> 24:18.084 [SPEAKER_01]: And what would you say that is? 24:18.944 --> 24:26.702 [SPEAKER_02]: I think most addicts that I know do because it's not something that it goes away, it's just something you have to kind of like revert the energy to. 24:27.581 --> 24:29.523 [SPEAKER_02]: For me, it's a lot of physical activity. 24:30.043 --> 24:34.307 [SPEAKER_02]: So every day I wake up, I roll a blade, I run, I go to the gym, I do a 10 mile race. 24:34.367 --> 24:37.069 [SPEAKER_02]: I do, it's like, I have to consistently stay active. 24:38.150 --> 24:44.536 [SPEAKER_02]: And when I'm working on my feet a lot, so it's just kind of like go-go mentality, that kind of just we've seen in and out the day. 24:44.556 --> 24:45.657 [SPEAKER_02]: That's a great idea. 24:45.677 --> 24:46.738 [SPEAKER_01]: So I like it, I show. 24:47.419 --> 24:48.720 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I like it for that a lot. 24:49.080 --> 24:54.405 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it probably makes your head, your mental clarity, like so much better when you're actually like getting up and moving. 24:55.115 --> 25:11.900 [SPEAKER_02]: yeah for sure and like through the breakup is I figured out that's how I regulate as well so like all this physical activity it just worked really well with everything that's going to you and did you do any break-up tattoos what's the journey with the the um this guy where are we here this was my break-up tattoo 25:12.880 --> 25:29.105 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, kind of as we're doing butterflies, cocoon, new life kind of scenario, um, that's when it happened I think it was like a week out like just traumatized and I needed something to change because I felt so different in myself and it is something physical to change on me other than my hair. 25:29.145 --> 25:29.485 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 25:31.346 --> 25:38.953 [SPEAKER_02]: So, so that was my big breakup tattoo and every time I look at it, it kind of smiled because I'm just in a different place, I'm a different animal, you know. 25:39.513 --> 25:42.636 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, I've really jealous of people who can rock those tattoos. 25:42.716 --> 25:44.438 [SPEAKER_01]: I think I've got commitment issues. 25:46.815 --> 26:14.007 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would say it takes a certain kind of mindset to be like, fuck this body Yeah, like that's the opposite my my all of my anxiety is baked into my physical health like am I getting sick like I've talked about this on the substock episodes But like speaking of daddies One daddy in particular Absolutely gave me strep throat recently shout out to him and so when it comes to like Fuck this body 26:14.947 --> 26:15.747 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, Dad. 26:16.067 --> 26:24.709 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, when it comes like fuck this body, I, um, I can't, I'm not there yet, but maybe that'll be something to like aspire towards because I love a tattoo moment. 26:24.729 --> 26:36.512 [SPEAKER_01]: Yours looking credible, Matt has has been getting a bunch over recent years, and I find them to be really sexy, but I just can't imagine like looking at my body and being like, I want something to be there forever. 26:38.221 --> 26:53.460 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's kind of like a total I just picked animals and mostly because I knew I'd always like them, you know, and I can kind of collect them as I go, like I guess like a bird from New Zealand and stuff and like every time I'm in a place I just get whatever animal I've been around, which is good. 26:53.520 --> 27:09.563 [SPEAKER_02]: I did it kind of for that exact reason though like I got these jobs stopping tattoos because I wanted to make sure I didn't end up in a suit and tie anywhere and specifically wanted to ruin this image of being a 9 to 5 person so that when people look at me they don't see that you know. 27:09.743 --> 27:11.145 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, yes, absolutely. 27:11.185 --> 27:27.645 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this is something you do that I'm obsessed with, which is in the content you post online, whether it's like you dancing under a rainfall shower and heels and the sluddiest outfit you've ever seen, or giving us your beautiful butt in New Zealand, or showing us how you construct something. 27:28.185 --> 27:41.608 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you ever feel a sense of shame that you have to unpack about showing yourself in this kind of horny way like how did you get through that because I feel like I look at you and I want that freedom. 27:42.829 --> 27:43.389 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, interesting. 27:45.449 --> 27:51.331 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I just got so sick of people that I stopped carrying what they think. 27:51.831 --> 27:55.132 [SPEAKER_02]: There is no right way to navigate people in their opinions. 27:55.592 --> 27:56.632 [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody will ever like you. 27:57.374 --> 28:04.906 [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody will ever like not like you're always gonna have people that hate you for no matter what you do literally anything So it's like I just stopped caring 28:06.415 --> 28:12.877 [SPEAKER_02]: And I found a great community of people that really celebrate that with me, and that can live by Cariously through that. 28:13.277 --> 28:17.778 [SPEAKER_02]: And so I'm constantly surrounded myself with people that are joyous about that with me, you know? 28:18.058 --> 28:19.498 [SPEAKER_02]: So I don't feel anything anymore. 28:19.518 --> 28:23.979 [SPEAKER_02]: I just naturally do whatever I want to do, and people celebrate that with me, and it's awesome. 28:24.019 --> 28:28.320 [SPEAKER_01]: You can beautifully balance the bookside and the femme side with the dancing. 28:28.360 --> 28:30.241 [SPEAKER_01]: What's up with the, your dancing herstreet? 28:30.441 --> 28:33.822 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you clearly started it in college. 28:35.995 --> 28:36.916 [SPEAKER_02]: You do it all in college. 28:36.936 --> 28:39.318 [SPEAKER_02]: You do modern tap jazz ballet. 28:39.338 --> 28:41.040 [SPEAKER_02]: I wasn't necessarily good at it. 28:41.120 --> 28:42.401 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like a really big guy. 28:43.122 --> 28:45.043 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm kind of clunky. 28:45.083 --> 28:46.545 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not really that graceful. 28:46.605 --> 28:48.707 [SPEAKER_02]: My limbs don't like straighten all the way. 28:49.127 --> 28:52.150 [SPEAKER_02]: So I was in the best answer in dance school, but I have a lot of personality. 28:52.230 --> 28:53.711 [SPEAKER_02]: So I got pretty far with that. 28:54.212 --> 29:00.378 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I started a dance company after school, because that was kind of the medium that I learned how to communicate in. 29:00.918 --> 29:19.271 [SPEAKER_02]: and so I have a lot of performers that I work with now that are either drag queens or belast answers or strippers or professional dancers and I've learned that language so it's easy to choreograph this stuff with them and I usually tend to do more of the heavy lifting of acro male duets in my work. 29:20.032 --> 29:26.576 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'll set work on myself that is just lifting more beautiful boys around as they show off their moves. 29:26.596 --> 29:26.817 [SPEAKER_02]: You know? 29:27.877 --> 29:39.361 [SPEAKER_02]: and I kind of emphasize men on men in my performances and a lot of nudity in my performances to kind of get this whole free love thing on the stage because you don't see enough of it. 29:39.681 --> 29:47.404 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't see male and male partnering and enough on these stages and it is hard like it's like boys are big you know they're hard to move around like that. 29:47.964 --> 29:55.326 [SPEAKER_02]: So, um, but it's really really cool to see male bodies on stage together and naked together as naked as possible. 29:55.947 --> 30:00.648 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and moving together in a really beautiful way, because like you don't see it in professional ballet. 30:00.668 --> 30:04.349 [SPEAKER_02]: You don't see it even on Broadway that much, like you just don't see enough of it, you know? 30:04.569 --> 30:06.530 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, are you a Broadway gay? 30:06.570 --> 30:09.411 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you enjoy musical theater? 30:10.093 --> 30:20.060 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I switch over from Broadway tunes on my work day at like five o'clock and it's just all Broadway tunes just Belting it out in my warehouse to all of South Philly, you know, whatever. 30:20.120 --> 30:39.515 [SPEAKER_01]: What are some of your favorite Showtunes to Bel too because I mean, I want to say we get that basic now, you know, you know, Well, that's okay with it is is a class seek for a reason Side note for people who don't yet follow Gunner scroll down to the full witch photo shoot that Gunner did it is on fucking real 30:41.377 --> 30:47.446 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not only hot, but like just high-faggy art. 30:48.047 --> 30:51.272 [SPEAKER_01]: So you're belting to wicked, are there any deep cuts, are there any show tunes you're into? 30:52.410 --> 31:16.088 [SPEAKER_02]: Um, like specific tunes I'll listen to over and over and over again like my days from the notebook I don't know why that one makes the cut but like literally like 40 times in a row and that that's probably just where I'm at in life right now You know, but like A lot of like I haven't even seen Hamilton and I listen to it straight through all the time, you know I didn't even watch it on that flex or whatever But I'm really excited to see last boys 31:16.648 --> 31:17.689 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, yeah, super dope. 31:17.729 --> 31:18.249 [SPEAKER_02]: Did you see it? 31:18.449 --> 31:18.990 [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, I didn't see it. 31:19.010 --> 31:24.094 [SPEAKER_01]: No, I hear it's great, but my friend, J. Marcus, shout out as one of the producers on it and awesome. 31:24.294 --> 31:25.095 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 31:25.115 --> 31:27.577 [SPEAKER_01]: I hear it's like mind blowing. 31:28.337 --> 31:32.561 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just like so my vibe of like the pires while singing. 31:33.561 --> 31:34.602 [SPEAKER_01]: And like big spectacle. 31:34.702 --> 31:42.388 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it's apparently one of the most expensive Broadway shows like it's up there with Spider-Man turn off the dark, but it's obviously more 31:44.750 --> 31:50.891 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, I love a very expensive high-performance horrible Broadway show. 31:51.031 --> 31:51.872 [SPEAKER_02]: That's my favorite. 31:52.012 --> 32:01.794 [SPEAKER_02]: They have to be bad though Like I think I saw King Kong like five times because it's so bad But it's so good at the same time with the monkey. 32:01.834 --> 32:05.475 [SPEAKER_02]: It's just the ape is just so so cool, but the show itself is just 32:06.455 --> 32:08.716 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, who blind the mercy was trash? 32:09.237 --> 32:10.958 [SPEAKER_02]: I heard that turning trash. 32:11.538 --> 32:13.439 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the best I love it so much. 32:13.519 --> 32:15.580 [SPEAKER_02]: I saw Beetlejuice a few times for the same reason. 32:15.600 --> 32:16.661 [SPEAKER_02]: That was just too much. 32:16.681 --> 32:18.262 [SPEAKER_02]: The whole show was just way too much. 32:18.502 --> 32:22.364 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, here we have Beetlejuice people like as a show, though, but I never saw it. 32:22.384 --> 32:25.206 [SPEAKER_01]: So I can't, I can't say a total cool following. 32:26.146 --> 32:28.828 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like watching the movie, like 10 times in a row. 32:28.848 --> 32:29.688 [SPEAKER_02]: That's what it feels like. 32:30.129 --> 32:30.489 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 32:30.509 --> 32:31.569 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you like this song? 32:31.890 --> 32:32.690 [SPEAKER_01]: I've got another show too. 32:32.710 --> 32:34.571 [SPEAKER_01]: Did you listen to Dead Mom from Beetlejuice? 32:35.091 --> 32:35.351 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 32:36.492 --> 32:41.134 [SPEAKER_00]: love dead mom. 32:41.254 --> 32:43.995 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay my days though is a great a great one. 32:44.175 --> 32:46.195 [SPEAKER_01]: I my San Diego road trip. 32:46.396 --> 32:48.236 [SPEAKER_01]: I did a lot of Hamilton as well. 32:48.456 --> 32:53.658 [SPEAKER_01]: I also did the entire original cast recording of last five years weeping and screen belting. 32:53.678 --> 32:54.458 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 32:54.858 --> 32:56.699 [SPEAKER_01]: Another one that needs to be shouted out. 32:57.119 --> 32:59.700 [SPEAKER_01]: I had a Robert Horn on the podcast a year or two ago. 32:59.760 --> 33:01.341 [SPEAKER_01]: He wrote shocked the musical. 33:01.361 --> 33:03.722 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like a very can't be funny musical, but there's a 33:05.342 --> 33:14.847 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, there's a song that Alex Newell sings, um, called independently, um, and I think it's right up your alley because it is like belt to Soros racks. 33:15.607 --> 33:16.348 [SPEAKER_02]: Dr. Soros racks. 33:16.408 --> 33:19.790 [SPEAKER_02]: I literally lip sank it on my stories last week. 33:20.490 --> 33:23.252 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's in my, yeah, one way that's all in my. 33:23.693 --> 33:23.893 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 33:24.573 --> 33:25.014 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, fuck. 33:25.054 --> 33:25.414 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 33:25.474 --> 33:25.754 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay. 33:25.814 --> 33:26.055 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 33:26.075 --> 33:26.635 [SPEAKER_01]: They just are. 33:26.815 --> 33:28.036 [SPEAKER_02]: They just came through Philly. 33:28.336 --> 33:29.077 [SPEAKER_02]: It was amazing. 33:29.557 --> 33:33.701 [SPEAKER_02]: And that song is like the best breakup song for a Broadway show. 33:33.921 --> 33:34.962 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it is. 33:35.282 --> 33:35.963 [SPEAKER_02]: It is. 33:36.083 --> 33:38.064 [SPEAKER_02]: It's like totally my jam right now. 33:38.445 --> 33:39.666 [SPEAKER_02]: Totally my jam right now. 33:39.686 --> 33:39.806 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 33:39.826 --> 33:40.306 [SPEAKER_02]: We're in that way. 33:40.446 --> 33:43.229 [SPEAKER_01]: Quick teaser question before we go to Substack. 33:43.249 --> 33:46.011 [SPEAKER_01]: But would you say that in your single life now you are being a slut? 33:47.552 --> 33:48.093 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure. 33:48.233 --> 33:48.413 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 33:49.026 --> 33:50.066 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, great. 33:50.666 --> 33:52.447 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, and I'm in dependantly. 33:52.967 --> 33:54.867 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of you. 33:54.887 --> 33:58.468 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, and we're not going to hear about the hoardums soon. 33:58.928 --> 34:00.189 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, okay. 34:00.209 --> 34:01.449 [SPEAKER_01]: So we got into Showtunes. 34:01.469 --> 34:04.390 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got into, um, are you Alphabur Glinda? 34:04.630 --> 34:05.470 [SPEAKER_01]: I guess you're Alphabur, right? 34:06.270 --> 34:14.372 [SPEAKER_02]: Totally Alphabur, but just for like the Renaissance of it all or the the kind of resistance of it all, you know, like just like what she's about. 34:15.172 --> 34:21.454 [SPEAKER_01]: We'll also, you feel like you're sort of like, uh, part of the expression like the book green hair. 34:21.474 --> 34:22.575 [SPEAKER_01]: You're also the freak. 34:22.595 --> 34:26.817 [SPEAKER_01]: You're also the maybe black sheep, um, yeah, are you. 34:26.877 --> 34:27.617 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you have siblings? 34:28.817 --> 34:32.619 [SPEAKER_02]: I have an older brother like a big gay version of me or a straight version of me. 34:32.639 --> 34:34.720 [SPEAKER_02]: Sorry, I'm the gay one. 34:34.820 --> 34:35.860 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, wait, you've been gayer. 34:36.440 --> 34:37.261 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, there's gay, right? 34:37.501 --> 34:37.661 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 34:37.761 --> 34:39.722 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow, a bigger straighter version of you. 34:39.742 --> 34:40.722 [SPEAKER_01]: That's wild. 34:41.262 --> 34:41.522 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 34:41.962 --> 34:42.363 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 34:44.146 --> 34:46.247 [SPEAKER_02]: was like a wilder outdoor firefighter. 34:46.267 --> 34:51.349 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they don't know what to do with it for the most part. 34:51.369 --> 35:01.814 [SPEAKER_02]: I think they think it's funny, but I don't I don't think they understand the gravity of like gay culture as a whole and how how my work kind of plays into that. 35:02.234 --> 35:03.395 [SPEAKER_02]: So if you don't understand 35:04.800 --> 35:19.272 [SPEAKER_02]: the whole nuance of it all, it just comes off as kind of like, I don't know, like clowning or something, you know, like, like, but you don't understand the gay history as much and like how far we've come and what we're doing now and what we've done in the past. 35:19.352 --> 35:32.202 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's actually very well said as to why sometimes it can feel like we're disconnected from some of the heteros in our families, our lives as humans, which is just like a lack of context that they don't understand the depth of content for sure. 35:33.483 --> 35:56.939 [SPEAKER_02]: And like why we do certain things and what that's kind of like specific sense of humor that gay people tend to have They don't understand my humor a lot of the times my family because it's a little harsh and it's like kind of like hurt I think and like they would never know what shade is or what the tea You like all these things that like we have down to a a fine art. 35:57.239 --> 36:01.242 [SPEAKER_01]: Thanks So would you say that you have a pretty sharp tongue when the library is open? 36:02.248 --> 36:05.451 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't I don't think I'm like creative enough because I'm always like in RuPaul. 36:05.471 --> 36:25.887 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm always like you know what if the library was open and I had like I can't think on the spot like that but I'm shady as all hell like in person you know so I can throw shade really well just like in casual conversation but I can't like put the glasses on and read you for a film for like well the yeah I don't think so I know I do think that they are absolutely riding those before they get there and I think that you would be so because I'm like 36:26.768 --> 36:28.329 [SPEAKER_02]: I might I should be able to do that. 36:28.369 --> 36:31.351 [SPEAKER_01]: I think no, I think there's a lot of sweat and mirrors with that. 36:31.391 --> 36:42.618 [SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a lot of preparation age that goes into it before I think that they are very much in a writer's room But maybe I'll ask a room girl next time I have one on how about work. 36:42.698 --> 36:49.483 [SPEAKER_01]: I need to know if there really should The final final thing before we move over to subject is I just want to say like you're 36:50.383 --> 36:52.664 [SPEAKER_01]: Ability to also create stuff on social media. 36:52.724 --> 36:56.026 [SPEAKER_01]: I think is pretty next level. 36:56.266 --> 37:00.288 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm in the era of finally taking mine a little more seriously. 37:00.328 --> 37:08.371 [SPEAKER_01]: Like, little, I'm just starting that now by trying to prioritize it because it really is sort of currency in many industries. 37:08.391 --> 37:09.332 [SPEAKER_01]: Does your 37:12.413 --> 37:15.614 [SPEAKER_01]: relationship with social media like has has an ebbton flowed. 37:15.674 --> 37:28.778 [SPEAKER_01]: How have you been able to seemingly be like a grounded, how do I say like not vapid monstrous person but also posting pretty regularly and pretty involved content? 37:29.842 --> 37:33.444 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think of myself, like, as an influencer at all. 37:33.584 --> 37:35.545 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't try to influence anybody to do anything. 37:35.585 --> 37:41.328 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just making our out of thought that I make, you know, online. 37:41.368 --> 37:44.509 [SPEAKER_02]: So it started, you know, I've done, it's been a slow trajectory. 37:44.529 --> 37:45.890 [SPEAKER_02]: So it didn't happen overnight either. 37:45.910 --> 37:46.270 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 37:46.390 --> 37:52.754 [SPEAKER_02]: It's been a group of people that have kind of followed me through a lot of different things and really enjoy just seeing what I'm up to. 37:52.794 --> 37:55.495 [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a very kind of like genuine, authentic thing. 37:55.835 --> 37:58.938 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not after anything, I don't make a ton of money from it. 37:59.058 --> 38:05.282 [SPEAKER_02]: I get a lot of work from it from individuals, reach out and want fabrications or things and connections that way. 38:05.783 --> 38:12.688 [SPEAKER_02]: That's great, but there's no money, this isn't something I need to keep up because it's paying my bills, necessarily. 38:13.108 --> 38:15.870 [SPEAKER_01]: So there is no way you're kind of pressure putting your art out there. 38:15.891 --> 38:17.512 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just one of the tools. 38:18.297 --> 38:26.021 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I don't work with any like agencies or anything to like send me to premieres or do anything like outrageous like that. 38:26.082 --> 38:29.323 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's not like me just trying to get attention all the time. 38:29.343 --> 38:42.131 [SPEAKER_01]: It's literally just me having a blast and having you like so outside of posting what is your usage like are you scrolling on Instagram a lot you have an app that you spend the most time on like what's ruining your life. 38:42.988 --> 38:47.292 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, everything in America in 2026, but I think we're all addicted to it, right? 38:47.312 --> 38:49.413 [SPEAKER_02]: So we're all scrolling all of these things. 38:49.774 --> 38:50.154 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 38:50.494 --> 38:54.738 [SPEAKER_02]: I kind of see it from what it is as a creator for it. 38:54.978 --> 39:01.664 [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of the time, so I can see what people's objectives are, maybe more than other people can, like, through their content and how they're making content and stuff. 39:01.684 --> 39:02.644 [SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not as like... 39:03.685 --> 39:05.847 [SPEAKER_02]: amazed by it or like taken by it. 39:05.867 --> 39:08.989 [SPEAKER_02]: But I enjoy it as like downtime. 39:09.489 --> 39:12.472 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't it's it's fine. 39:12.512 --> 39:14.513 [SPEAKER_01]: Are you on Instagram more than the other ones? 39:15.414 --> 39:16.434 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm only on Instagram. 39:17.115 --> 39:18.176 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, don't have a TikTok. 39:18.796 --> 39:19.177 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay. 39:19.197 --> 39:19.397 [SPEAKER_02]: Mm-hmm. 39:19.817 --> 39:20.097 [SPEAKER_02]: No. 39:20.218 --> 39:23.681 [SPEAKER_02]: TikTok is like, the format when it started was way too short for me to say anything. 39:24.081 --> 39:26.564 [SPEAKER_02]: And I didn't want to just make little videos to make little videos. 39:26.604 --> 39:32.109 [SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to be like, talking about my art and like showing people how I'm doing things and like making longer format stuff. 39:32.209 --> 39:40.537 [SPEAKER_01]: When you post something on Instagram and it does significantly worse compared to your other content when it comes to like engagement, does that ever get to you? 39:40.597 --> 39:47.262 [SPEAKER_02]: No, I always just post whatever I want and it's always the things that I don't care as much about the skyrocket. 39:47.882 --> 39:52.185 [SPEAKER_02]: For instance, we did, I built a cake right and it went totally viral. 39:52.245 --> 40:00.251 [SPEAKER_02]: I got thousands of followers from it and millions of views and it was just me building a cake, you know, dancing around singing as I do and really like. 40:00.511 --> 40:01.071 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah. 40:01.412 --> 40:08.597 [SPEAKER_02]: And then I went out the other day and I walked these dogs from the shelter which I actually think is really really important and would like to be like a mission statement for like 40:09.618 --> 40:25.312 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, any kind of work I do and it got like maybe One twenty-nine of the engagement, you know, and it's like, oh, it's that because that's like something I really do enjoy doing, but I know I know exactly what is gonna get people's attention the most 40:25.932 --> 40:43.008 [SPEAKER_02]: So if I feel like I need to get people's attention that much in a project, I can kind of check all those boxes, like your shirt has to be off, you know, the music has to be well-known, like all these things, like, and then I know pretty much when something's going to do poorly, because I'm not trying that hard. 40:43.028 --> 40:44.610 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just doing what I usually do in life. 40:45.271 --> 40:56.357 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, since you have some eyeballs on you right now in this episode, I do want to shout out what you are doing with that shelter because I too saw that on your feet and I was really taken by it. 40:56.918 --> 41:02.421 [SPEAKER_01]: You can obviously correct me if I'm wrong with basically this shelter is different because they take in all the dogs that are brought to them. 41:03.081 --> 41:19.836 [SPEAKER_01]: But also, you are doing a program where you can actually take the dogs out for like a hike or to get them to sort of get their energy out and feel like real dogs and it actually helps their chances of getting adopted because they are, you know, able to really just run around and not be in a fucking cage. 41:19.856 --> 41:25.882 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's, I'm a huge dog gay and so I think it's really a totally important. 41:26.737 --> 41:28.118 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they have so many dogs at this show. 41:28.138 --> 41:33.423 [SPEAKER_02]: There's one of the bigger ones in the Philadelphia area, and they're always maxed out with these animals, right? 41:33.443 --> 41:36.826 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're just trying to get people engaged with them to get these homes for these guys. 41:37.386 --> 41:40.589 [SPEAKER_02]: And so, we were able to take a dog for the day. 41:40.609 --> 41:44.732 [SPEAKER_02]: And I usually go on hikes around here anyway, or outdoors as much as I can, so it's nice to have a dog with me. 41:45.633 --> 41:50.934 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're so overstimulated in these canals in this whole facility, right? 41:50.954 --> 41:52.955 [SPEAKER_02]: That they just get a data kind of like decompress. 41:52.975 --> 41:57.696 [SPEAKER_02]: And they're usually a handful to walk too because they're just like, I have so much energy they don't know what to do with it. 41:57.716 --> 41:58.896 [SPEAKER_02]: They don't know how to regulate themselves. 41:58.916 --> 41:59.917 [SPEAKER_02]: They haven't had an owner. 41:59.937 --> 42:01.377 [SPEAKER_02]: They've been abandoned, like all these stuff. 42:01.557 --> 42:02.537 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's quite a chore. 42:03.777 --> 42:06.718 [SPEAKER_02]: But it's something that I like to do to get out of my own space. 42:06.798 --> 42:10.139 [SPEAKER_02]: Like you can spend time on your own brand and your own stuff as much as you want in life. 42:10.159 --> 42:13.900 [SPEAKER_02]: But you have to get out of it every once in a while just like shake it off and just be a real person. 42:14.380 --> 42:15.382 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 42:15.402 --> 42:19.450 [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just something I like to do to like kind of, yeah. 42:20.072 --> 42:29.534 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's like, well, they say like therapy dogs or like any dog can be a therapy dog when you put your face up to its tummy because that's what I do with my dog all the way in day. 42:30.354 --> 42:45.378 [SPEAKER_01]: Okay, since we have one or two minutes before we go over to Substack, final two questions before we go before do character actress final question is you are sober gay and you mentioned of course being in Philadelphia. 42:46.259 --> 42:54.354 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you find yourself going out to the gay scene as a sober person or do you create your socializing outside of bars and clubs? 42:55.765 --> 42:58.126 [SPEAKER_02]: I tend to stay away from the scene. 42:58.666 --> 43:06.088 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm now more immersed in it because I am working my life and trying to figure out what I like again and where I fit in again with these things. 43:06.488 --> 43:12.750 [SPEAKER_02]: So more so than normal, but like I doesn't, the scene doesn't read like register with me as much. 43:13.651 --> 43:16.412 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't eat kind of means for breakfast, like some of these boys do. 43:16.712 --> 43:20.393 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't go out all night, I don't like, but like the lifestyle is just 43:21.173 --> 43:26.256 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm much slower than that, you know, and I like to be focused on what I'm making and creative and all that stuff. 43:26.316 --> 43:29.898 [SPEAKER_02]: So I get very overstimulated when I go out. 43:29.938 --> 43:31.058 [SPEAKER_02]: I'm very, very introverted. 43:31.158 --> 43:38.562 [SPEAKER_02]: Like we said, we spend so much time alone that if I go out for a night and go out to like midnight, you know, I'll be recovering for the next two days. 43:39.083 --> 43:39.263 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, 43:39.843 --> 43:42.145 [SPEAKER_02]: Let's just say I'm exhausted from it. 43:42.205 --> 43:42.986 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what it is. 43:43.006 --> 43:44.127 [SPEAKER_02]: It might be near 40. 43:44.227 --> 43:44.667 [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. 43:45.088 --> 43:47.830 [SPEAKER_02]: But I want this kind of thing. 43:48.591 --> 43:57.238 [SPEAKER_01]: I have actually had to train my body to stay up late on some weekends because I used to be afraid to be out later than 11 p.m. And now I've allowed myself. 43:57.738 --> 44:14.141 [SPEAKER_01]: every now and again to do like the I have I did my first wear house party last year I Will sometimes go to a dance party and stay out till maybe like we'll one in the morning if you can imagine like I'm Very similar because it takes me a long time to recover. 44:14.181 --> 44:19.322 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm like a sensitive my body is a sensitive girly And yeah, but you know, I'm trying to like just like you. 44:19.342 --> 44:25.163 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to figure out what makes me tick and what Experiences I want to have in this one life, but 44:25.683 --> 44:42.578 [SPEAKER_01]: Gunner Montana, before we go over it for me asking about your sluddiness, your breakup, and more, I want to ask you the final podcast question on the main feed, which is, if the world was ending, and you could only save one character actress, who would you save? 44:44.391 --> 44:52.557 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't know if she's been chosen yet, but I've been giving this some thought and it all comes down to make Salter for me. 44:53.498 --> 44:56.440 [SPEAKER_02]: I just know what she's so funny. 44:56.961 --> 44:57.541 [SPEAKER_02]: She's so funny. 44:57.661 --> 44:58.822 [SPEAKER_02]: She's so funny. 44:59.363 --> 45:01.184 [SPEAKER_02]: She's incredible out of control. 45:01.204 --> 45:01.284 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah 45:02.365 --> 45:05.346 [SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think she's been chosen on this podcast. 45:05.386 --> 45:08.347 [SPEAKER_01]: Even though we have mentioned her, I don't think we've saved her. 45:08.447 --> 45:11.328 [SPEAKER_01]: So Gunner, great choice. 45:12.008 --> 45:12.409 [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you. 45:12.449 --> 45:19.951 [SPEAKER_02]: When we talk about how desperate people are for, like, some attention, including myself these days, and how she just doesn't give a fuck. 45:20.051 --> 45:22.672 [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I just love her so much. 45:22.792 --> 45:23.453 [SPEAKER_02]: I really do. 45:24.053 --> 45:25.313 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, song, pretty sure. 45:25.333 --> 45:26.394 [SPEAKER_02]: I will remember. 45:26.414 --> 45:29.395 [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, oh, she, and then like, just want to be my song. 45:30.455 --> 45:42.749 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it will and she she just said I'll set my or she was like I'm no longer an actress I'm now only giving music and you can't don't even have to take it seriously because you just have to like take her at face value What she's giving you in that moment. 45:43.410 --> 45:45.272 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, I not not joking. 45:45.372 --> 45:51.419 [SPEAKER_01]: I just mentioned mixed altered to my 67 year old mother the other day my parents were just in LA visiting 45:52.099 --> 46:10.389 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was saying how much of a genius she is, and she, I went and saw one of the first shows I saw in Person as the world was opening up post pandemic was Meg Staltor in Brooklyn, and I She was obviously a genius. 46:11.209 --> 46:17.213 [SPEAKER_01]: I cannot wait to see what she continues to do, but yeah Meg Staltor pop diva star absolutely 46:18.153 --> 46:20.514 [SPEAKER_02]: And you know she's only in that beginning of it. 46:20.574 --> 46:24.115 [SPEAKER_02]: So like there's so much more to come from her that I'm just like so stoked about it. 46:24.175 --> 46:25.015 [SPEAKER_02]: I stand so hard. 46:25.636 --> 46:26.176 [SPEAKER_01]: You know what? 46:26.316 --> 46:32.838 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's take a second to Stan megstalter and the journey that she's continuing to go on. 46:32.898 --> 46:38.780 [SPEAKER_01]: But can we be on Orthodox for a second and stand ourselves to say that we also have a lot to look forward to? 46:38.820 --> 46:40.841 [SPEAKER_01]: Can we take a end to people listening you too? 46:41.161 --> 46:41.821 [SPEAKER_01]: You do too. 46:41.841 --> 46:44.842 [SPEAKER_01]: Like I sometimes feel that there is a time 46:46.204 --> 47:07.072 [SPEAKER_01]: there is a countdown clock ticking in the back of my brain that's like saying you're the jig is up you there's no more time left to become anything and actually we have a long run way we can be whatever the fuck we want to be in this moment and just like mixed alter we have a lot more to show and to explore in ourselves and I think Gunner you are the same way. 47:08.051 --> 47:10.935 [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks, we can all be a little more like make starter. 47:11.616 --> 47:14.659 [SPEAKER_01]: Save that, Gunner Montana, let's say that. 47:14.719 --> 47:17.583 [SPEAKER_01]: Will you please tell these gorgeous listeners where to follow you? 47:17.683 --> 47:19.706 [SPEAKER_01]: And if there's anything else you would like for them to know. 47:21.128 --> 47:25.753 [SPEAKER_02]: It's mostly just Instagram, Gunner Montana, G-U-N-N-A-R-M-O-N-T-A-N-A. 47:26.354 --> 47:26.915 [SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty much it. 47:27.855 --> 47:42.551 [SPEAKER_01]: It is linked in the description and for all of you sub-stuck paid girlies, you're in for a treat because we're about to have a kinky, slutty conversation there at substack.com slash at Eric Wills and I will see you there, Gunner, you're a star.