[SPEAKER_01]: Tell me, is this inEO's going to be your quartermaster, the most over-priced pickup truck you could buy or is it a hidden gem that most people don't know about?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's we're going to find that today?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we've lived with and driven this inEO's for quite some time now.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the updated version of the Granite Air.
[SPEAKER_00]: And in today's video, we're going to take it off-road, give you our unabridged thoughts about what it's like living with one of these trucks, talk about that price point, and find out what you buy one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let's talk about what Ineos and what quartermaster are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so Ineos is a company based in the UK.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is this gentleman named Sir Rackcliffe, who was a huge fan of the defender.
[SPEAKER_00]: The old school landover went out of production.
[SPEAKER_00]: He wanted to keep building it landovers.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just man in the UK.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, he said the landover said no.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he said, well, I'm just going to go do it anyway.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he did and working with Magna and some other companies like BMW.
[SPEAKER_00]: He built this truck from the ground up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but he also built an SUV, which I think people may have heard about.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so the Grenadier Station wagon is a traditional Ford or SUV.
[SPEAKER_00]: The corridor master means that it's a Ford or pickup, and this one is far more rare than the SUV, partly because it's a lot more expensive because that any of us pays the chicken tax for every single one of these trucks they bring in.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, so these are actually built in France, and whenever you import a commercial vehicle, you have to pay a 25% duty on it, on top of the extra duty that's already there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's why the price point on this is... Hi, this one aspect is 101,000 dollars.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, six figures for us, and so you mid-sized truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: So now that we've lived it for a while, we've taken it to Moe, we've told with it, we've done pretty much everything with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: why do you say we talk about the stuff we love and the stuff we don't love let's start with the stuff we love and i think what i love the most is under the hood so i'm gonna pop it and you show them what's under the hood because it is a surprising power train i think it's a two-pole oh it is BMW like isn't it you know reason so
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a lot of folks, especially here in the US, wonder why any host doesn't have a V8.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe some GM source V8 under the hood of this truck, of course, is this still a European manufacturer.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is the B58, 3 liter inline 6, source from BMW.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now this engine is really interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, let's dispel one of the first myths.
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people here at BMW, they assume it's going to be expensive and problematic.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is one of the best, most reliable engines of the modern era.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's also in a lot of different vehicles like the Supra.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's exactly right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if it's good enough for Toyota, it's probably going to be good enough for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: This engine's proven itself now over years of testing to be really long lasting.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when people think of BMW engines with turbochargers, they think of the old one.
[SPEAKER_00]: with the twin turbos, the n-series engines, those were really problematic, but the B58 is an excellent power train, 282 horsepower, 332 pound feet of torque.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which doesn't sound like a lot for a pretty big truck, and let's talk about the size of this truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's somewhere in between midsize and full size, so it's one of those kind of tweeter trucks.
[SPEAKER_01]: It isn't quite small enough to be a midsize truck, but it isn't quite big enough to be a full size, in other words, a half ton, which is kind of an interesting size.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know we can do we can kind of alternate good and bad and the answer is good, but speaking of bad, it's really the back seat isn't the timing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the back seat is really really tight.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let me show you, not only do you have the issue where kind of the back of the seat is straight up, but you're going to force me to get in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: No I got it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got it?
[SPEAKER_01]: You get in there and show them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean it's very vertical.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then the leg room is incredibly poor.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is my driving position at 6 feet tall.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty much stuffed up against these Ricardo front seats.
[SPEAKER_00]: Headroom is good, but it is unbelievably tight and uncomfortable back here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Considering the size of this truck, this is like a Tacoma back seat and it just doesn't have to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, unfortunately it's almost to the point where it could be
[SPEAKER_01]: So, type back there that you wouldn't want to put adults in there for a long ride.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, kids are fine, around town is fine, but you wouldn't want to take this truck across country or overland and have actual people in the back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, now, good thing about this truck is I actually think the bed is pretty well thought out.
[SPEAKER_00]: It isn't incredibly high lift over to pick things up off the bottom, but one of the pros is you do have a properly massive tailgate.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you are looking to haul long item to tell you down, really a lot of space back there.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a composite bed liner, but it is a steel bed underneath the liner.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think of the spare tire location?
[SPEAKER_01]: You know most American pickup trucks, of course, have an underneath the bed.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here they've mounted it to the side of the bed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think this is kind of a packaging mess, because if you look underneath the bed, you'll see that there's actually a lot of space.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm curious why they didn't just stick the tire underneath the bed.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is a cut out there, so you could have two of them, which is kind of cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it actually worked really well when we were moving your motorcycle because what we did was we stuck the back tire of the motorcycle in that little hole.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually kept the motorcycle in place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you want to show them a little cubby hole?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if it opens, I'm not sure if we have the key.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of clever.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a little clever.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's locked, of course.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we've got the key.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're using that space to actually give you some more storage space, which I think is clever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lockable.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jumper cables.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I think it's smart, but like if you look poker camera underneath the bed cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: One thing I just don't understand is you can see the exhaust, tucked way, way, way back there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then there's this huge gap in space underneath the rear portion of the bed, where spare tire could and in my opinion should go.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I don't know why they did that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, this is definitely a European truck, so they do things differently over on the other side of the pond.
[SPEAKER_01]: The one thing I do like about is about this truck or these kind of the bed bars.
[SPEAKER_01]: The bed bars are cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they give it a sense of sportiness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, the reason you buy this truck,
[SPEAKER_00]: is because it is really overbuilt underneath the skin.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's solid axles for an impact manufactured by a company called Coraro, which is sort of the Dana of Europe, but Coraro is known for doing heavy-duty application axles for box trucks, for tractors, so they're incredibly beefy.
[SPEAKER_00]: really, really, really overbuilt and, you know, talking to some owners who live in driven of these things, the drive trains just don't break.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are unbelievably solid.
[SPEAKER_00]: Other than maybe some of the drive shafts, which have had some failures, especially if you try to lift them too high, these trucks don't like to be lifted, but if you keep them stock height and just put a little bit bigger tire on them, they are really overbuilt.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so let's talk about the bad now we've done the good and that is of course the price point.
[SPEAKER_01]: How much is this truck Tommy?
[SPEAKER_00]: 101,000 dollars.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so at 101,000 dollars, Tommy, you could get a heavy duty Ford F250 tremor diesel.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, which would have more towing more payload more of everything, basically.
[SPEAKER_01]: And okay, you wouldn't get the snorkel.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you that, and you certainly wouldn't get kind of this Swiss army knife of trucks where it's got a lot of these grab rails here, are really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is meant for more storage, there's just a lot of thoughtfulness that went into this if you're actually doing real overlaying, and you wouldn't get all that, but from a practical day to day perspective, that's a lot of trucks I'm talking about, F-250 for about the same amount of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well forget the F-250, what about two Ranger Actors?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: You could be what about an F-150 Raptor on 37s, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there are, there's just so much truck you can buy for the dollar.
[SPEAKER_00]: This really is a specialty vehicle for someone that loves this form factor that has to have locking this front and rear and has to have a vehicle that's very overbuilt underneath.
[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't want the luxuries of like a Lexus GX or the luxuries of a nice F-50 platinum, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's it's a very specific buyer and there's no doubt the value really isn't here if you look at the competition But it kind of is a one of one in terms of what it accomplishes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the closest truck to this I think price wise and ability wise would be either a Colorado or Canyon with the AEV
[SPEAKER_01]: package, right, where you get triple lock, you get the bison, you get the fenders, you get all of the off-road goodies, and those run about 75,000, so you're still $25,000, you know, over the price of this truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: In other words, using your comparison, you could buy the AV version of the Colorado or the Canyon, and then have money left over for, let's call it a use wrangler.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there's a reason you don't see many of the trucks on the road.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the wagons, something like 20K less expensive, 25K less expensive.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a much better value getting the SUV version instead of the truck larger because of that chicken tax, which the SUV doesn't have to deal with.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, there's so many cool things on this truck like I love the built-in winch, the winch.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got a full synthetic winch there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like how they also incorporated the license plate bracket into the winch, so that you can both have your winch and your license plate bracket.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a way I haven't actually used this yet, but I think if you pull out, you can this, yep, you can pivot up your license plate for when you're off road.
[SPEAKER_00]: and you're recovering someone, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So like really, little attention to detail here is super, super high.
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's talk about another great thing now that we're back to good and that is interior.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think this is like the baddest, coolest, sickest, whatever word you want to use to describe interior because this is like piloting a 747 and I'll look cool again on this side.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean...
[SPEAKER_00]: This is kind of the anti-test lock.
[SPEAKER_00]: So to start it up, you have to pull a key out of your pocket, you have to flip it up and you have to put it in a hole, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then if you want to, for example, adjust the climate control, you use nouns.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to turn on your heated seats, you use buttons.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to adjust the radio, you use a knob.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to turn off your pork sensor, you use a button.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to put it in the low range, you use a lever, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So like there's a lot of physical stuff in here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then this is what you're talking about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, how about if you want to lock the dips?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the dips locks are up here, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: rear locker, front locker, offer mode, waiting mode, downhill assist, stability control.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can also aim your headlights, which is something you can't do in a lot of new vehicles.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've got all these pre-wired switches, which by the way aren't only to the switch panel, there are various pig tails throughout the trucks, so you can access those pretty much anywhere on the truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how about those that cool?
[SPEAKER_01]: sunroof slash dual sunroof.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So definitely unusual design that you're not going to find in any other vehicle.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it really is unique.
[SPEAKER_00]: That being said, in case it's talked about to some in videos, like the actual buttons don't feel very high quality, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: There's quite a bit of play in a lot of these buttons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, plastic key.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they've got a little better compared to some of the early ones, but they still like, I love their buttons, but they could probably make them feel a little better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so now that we've done a good list of the bad and the bad has to be the central screen with no real screen in front of the driver.
[SPEAKER_01]: I find that to be a little cumbersome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a little slow and awkward to use.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not too bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no color to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But to your point, Dad, there's no screen here in front of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all of it you have to look in the middle.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I kind of think that was to save money and going left to right hand drive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, you don't have to redesign the instrument cluster.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it isn't a little bit annoying.
[SPEAKER_01]: hungry and the other thing that's super knowing about this is that they're still using the European regulations for every time you talk about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can see the speed limit.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's not speed limit anymore.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some new issues which we're talking about in a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, we'll leave that.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll let you wait for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: How about driving position, comfort, all that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it is good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that the steering wheel is nicely positioned.
[SPEAKER_00]: It does tell scope and go up and down.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the two horns.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, let's say that's my favorite.
[SPEAKER_01]: So any also sponsors a Tour de France team and because it's bike friendly, it's got a Tudorne and the other day we were driving it and we were surrounded by a Pelton of bikes and I was going to accelerate quicker from the stop light and so I used a Tudorne and they got out of my way They're very nice.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's really, really smart.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's also a regular horn too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, yeah, there's also a big horn.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, so you got But there's just like some weird things in here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which like the BMW shifter?
[SPEAKER_00]: That's pretty weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what I mean by weird is like I I understand that this this car is supposed to be a little bit raw and stripped down
[SPEAKER_00]: But for example, like $100,000 in no power seats is a little ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_00]: A $100,000 no adaptive cruise control, a little kind of hard to adjust.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm missing the elephant in the room, which is a steering, and the turning radius, which is better than it used to be.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, why don't we show up here?
[SPEAKER_01]: Why don't you make a turn, see if you can go around the tumbleweed sign?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I can, I can, I can will.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, show, show them the turning radius.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is improved.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can tell why that is because of the solid axles.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it's because of the steering system.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this uses a recirculating ball steering setup, which shouldn't have really any impact on the turning circle.
[SPEAKER_00]: It definitely has impact on steering feel, and then they also didn't dial any caster angle into the development of this truck, so it doesn't self-centered.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little better than it used to be, but it's still not great.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it follows what it'll lose kind of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, I'm gonna talk to him because you may be out of,
[SPEAKER_01]: Mike Green.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, you're good.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're good.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the best.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the turning circle right there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're full luck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, do it again one more time.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, imagine if this was a road, if this were a four lane road, you might be able to make a U-turn.
[SPEAKER_01]: You might be able to make a U-turn.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's like, especially if you're trying to make a U-turn on a two lane, it's never going to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the steering does have a quicker ratio off-center, so it is more responsive than it's ever been, which is really good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Still, self-centered is a little better than some of the old ones, but not great.
[SPEAKER_00]: You still have to be kind of on this steering quick.
[SPEAKER_00]: But what this means is that when you're off-road, really precise steering.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is one of the most impressive off-road trucks I've ever experienced.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a victory.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, first of all, you've got BFGs, which, you know, I think is kind of gold standard.
[SPEAKER_00]: The wrong BFGs, though, it's got BL2s, you know, for 101 grand, I kind of want KL3s.
[SPEAKER_01]: But still, the gold standard are the old gold standard for off-roading.
[SPEAKER_00]: But considering the tire is pretty small.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and considering the ground clearance isn't like huge.
[SPEAKER_00]: What this thing will go over is, I mean, we did cliffhanger 2.0 in this thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't even double second guess any of the rocks or bolts we were going over.
[SPEAKER_00]: No clearance issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: We was unbelievable what they're able to do with essentially a 32-inch tall tire.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's pretty incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: I always feel like the trucks will under tired, not as in sleepy, but as in.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you lift these and you go to 35, they do look really badass.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's also an issue with opinion angles when you lift them more than like two inches Yeah, they don't they're not happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're not happy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why some folks are doing portals Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, now you're talking money.
[SPEAKER_00]: People will have been doing portals, but that is even more spendy Yeah, but that lets you this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's mount up some cameras.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll take you through the pit and talk about what it drives like All right, so as you know time that we own the SUV version of this
[SPEAKER_01]: And we sold it because it had an infuriating feature, which was the European ADS.
[SPEAKER_01]: The speed bunk.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where it would bunk every time you exceed the speed limit by one mile an hour.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's clarify.
[SPEAKER_00]: You sold it because of the speed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was in love with that SUV.
[SPEAKER_00]: You couldn't do the speed bunk, which I don't blame me for.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was incredibly obnoxious.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is what just drives me crazy about this company.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they fixed the speed bunk.
[SPEAKER_00]: they sent out the software okay you always had a turn it off every time you turn off the truck and per your opinion regulations it has to be three steps to turn it off yeah so three steps to turn off the speed bump so I get it in the newer pins yeah I'm like yes they fix the speed bump issue it's one line of cold right just don't include that feature in the american version so then I start driving it and then it has the linky boarding me this
[SPEAKER_00]: and the lane keep the lane keep warning and centering.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I go to turn that off, think, okay, that's done.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I turn the truck off, and the lane keeps stuff comes back on every time.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they fix the speed-bong, and then they'll have given it this annoying lane keep system.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way the lane keep works is there's the warning and then there's the assist.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the assist uses the rear brakes I grabbed, of course, you need to say these does that, too.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it feels like you just got into a minor car accident.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every time the grabs the rear brakes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So now I'm going through six steps to turn off the lanekeep every time I drive the truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I mean it's like, oh, this is a company.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's where no nonsense, no frills, and yet they've got the stupid ADAS stuff, which just ruins the truck for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the ride quality is pretty good down the logs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I had a lot of head bob time here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I agree, it's a very, you know, comfortable overlander.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you want the ultimate, in my opinion,
[SPEAKER_00]: utility knife off-road to exist, it's really hard to beat the Ineos Grated Your Quartermaster.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they do stuff that like a lot of companies just don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, I put an off-road mode.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's two pushes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And now what it's going to do
[SPEAKER_01]: is not going to offer a boat.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have the savings here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Here we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then push it again.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: There we go.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you put an off-road mode, it's too precious.
[SPEAKER_00]: You have to confirm it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll learn that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you get it here, though.
[SPEAKER_00]: It disables the parking sensors.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which is great.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it disables the seat belt shine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is also great.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going in and out to look at line stuff, it's not beeping at you.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's really, really smart.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going up the logs course here.
[SPEAKER_00]: This inline 6 from BMW.
[SPEAKER_00]: Rocks course.
[SPEAKER_00]: Rocks course, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so perfectly programmed to this transmission and to this drive train.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is the best power train I think I've ever felt in a quote mid-sized truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like what's cool is it'll be driving up a hill in the highway and you'll give it some gas.
[SPEAKER_00]: And instead of down chifting three times a getting old buzzy, it'll just build the turbo boost in the gear you're in and it feels like you're driving a Peter built.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is so satisfying.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you know, the drive train is incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: The affordability is incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: I actually think the build quality is rather good as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And certainly the design is point.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm point.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there are some...
[SPEAKER_01]: nagging problems with it that are easy to solve and yet aren't solved.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that's the part that gets me on this company.
[SPEAKER_01]: Give some intern access to the code.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's as easy as one line of code that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I keep saying that, but look, I'm sure it's not as hard as having to re-engineer the steering, so that it's not as bad off-center when you're on the highway.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, that takes a lot of hardware.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it just feels like a company that's very Europe-focused, which is great, but the US, I think, is it's largest market.
[SPEAKER_00]: So give us our own software, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know why that's a foreign concept here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're going up trenches.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got a dig these out, by the way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're stuck.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're stuck.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, the traction control intervention in this thing is pretty mild, I find.
[SPEAKER_00]: They really want you to click on a locker, which I will do.
[SPEAKER_00]: check walk conditions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are we low range?
[SPEAKER_00]: We're low range.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I got to do center locker first.
[SPEAKER_00]: You gotta get the order right then.
[SPEAKER_01]: I remember when we opened it, this is also infuriating.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can't just turn on a locker, you gotta first- You gotta go to the process.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, you gotta get the order.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the order.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's standard for most cars now.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a full-time-foil drive system as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: But look at, I mean, look at that control.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just, this engine is so, I just love this B58, it is.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I love the compass here, that's also very great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: So our friend Scott Frady from the Overland Journal,
[SPEAKER_01]: up all of Africa actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I think he drove this to V version of it, but it just goes to show you how well engineered it is and how
[SPEAKER_01]: Robust it is that he took it, you know, and just drove it from South Africa all the way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think all the way up to the UK, actually.
[SPEAKER_00]: He drove it a long way.
[SPEAKER_01]: It drove it a long way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, my big takeaway with this, I still love this thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love any machine that built for purpose.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is kind of like the GT3 RS of the off-road space, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's built to be as good as it can be off-road, and therefore you get a lot of compromises.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of which valid, some of which could be fixed.
[SPEAKER_00]: My only complaint.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just keep coming back to this.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, that's here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would get the SUV version of this thing every day of the week.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that the compromise backseat, the weird spare tire situation and the added cost makes this a much worse vehicle than the station wagon version.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it's good to yes, you've eaten.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there is a lot to be said about having the only one.
[SPEAKER_01]: And on your block,
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it might be in your county or even in your state, right, because there's not a lot of people who are going to go and spend $100,000 for what is essentially, you know, a little bit bigger than a mid-sized truck.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, there'll be a little wacky.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there is exclusivity there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you go to Moe, you're not going to be seeing, you know, gladiator after gladiator after gladiator, but you're going to be seeing one of these and that's probably it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, I'm back at high range, just test the power already.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, go for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not exactly a desert runner, but it's not bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, it really does get up and go.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you get some cool turbo-wish too from that sort of, yeah, it's nice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, the other good news of which I'm seeing on mine, unfortunately for me, is that the use prices aren't really coming down that much.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like the cheapest ones I've seen are still $60,000 for two-year-old grenadier.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not the truck.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, the safety bike, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot, I still love these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't love the 14 MPG, that's kind of challenging now that gas is expensive, but as a whole, I still love driving, I still think they're really, really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, shall we head back to the studio and talk about our friends and aunts?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I just went on a pretty cool adventure.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about, and yeah, let's talk about what the aunts guys have been up to in the app, because there's some cool things they're doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then you can talk about your experience with driving an old land cruiser in Moab, now that we're, you know, dedicated in a whole episode to overlapping.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_01]: Hey, Tommy, it's great to be in the studio and I thought we could do something that people have been emailing us about, well, since we've been doing TFL, and that is talk about the trails that we do, and talk about how hard they are, and talk about
[SPEAKER_01]: where you could go and do some great off-roading if you're visiting Colorado because a lot of people come here just for off-roading.
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, for sure, and there's some trails here in Colorado we use.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll talk about some of the big ones in Moab that we've had some experience with and all there is to see there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and there is of course up.
[SPEAKER_01]: partner, sponsored that we work with Onix Offroad, and they're having a memorial day sale extended beyond a memorial day.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what's the discount code?
[SPEAKER_01]: Because we'll be showing the trails, you know, that Onix has on their maps, what's the discount code?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so shameless plug, MEM-day 50 that's MEM-day 50 for 50% off Onix, which is like the, this is the craziest sale they've done in a long time.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is a great tool because we'll be able to see exactly the trails we do and what to
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, so let's start with, I think one of the greatest trails on the front side of Colorado, the range at least here in Boulder and that is a Switzerland trail, which used to be an old railroad trussle because the used to mine, I believe, silver and gold up in, well, gold mine hill.
[SPEAKER_01]: is one of the places we named after what they were doing up there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, the train used to run down to Boulder and this train trussle is now called Switzerland Trail and there's just a lot of great off-roading of various descriptions.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, the Switzerland Trail itself is not that difficult, but I see Nick.
[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, the whole history here, Anonix.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, front range follows the path of a historic narrow gauge railroad built in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, initially built in 1883.
[SPEAKER_00]: and expanded until a flood in 1894, the line was revived and gained popularity as a tourist attraction named the Switzerland Trail.
[SPEAKER_00]: Despite its decline due to harsh winters, the rise of automobiles and mine closures, the right spanning about 30 miles of reaching elevations over 9,000 feet was crucial for transporting ore and tourists through key mining towns like Netherland and Ward.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a very beautiful trail and you've got it's a little bit of a shelf road in areas, but it's very scenic There are some cool monuments to some abandoned buildings you can check out But to your point that there are some spurs off of this fairly easy route that we often use Well, these pictures are showing are actually from on eggs So if you want to look know what it looks like that's your old campsite there
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you can actually go on on it so you can see pictures of it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've done a lot of dirt biking out there I've been running it for like 30 years and it's so cool to have something that is both beginner ready and more advanced In Colorado without having to go into the high country, which has its own issues with weather
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're anywhere near Denver, Boulder, I would highly recommend this footsulin trail because you can run it in maybe an hour or so and you could do probably do it in a soft off rotor.
[SPEAKER_01]: But one of the things that I don't expect you to do for instance is if you've got friends, you can find a friend on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly right.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a new location sharing feature.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're out wheeling with your buddies in their jeeps and you want to know where they are out on the trail, that is a great option.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I want to show some of the cool spurs off of Switzerland trail that we use.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the actual trail itself is only rated a two or three out of ten, but this is cliffhanger 2.0.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's officially called knob hill.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, a cliffhanger 2.0 better.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now we can see that the distance is pretty short, it's just 0.3 of a mile, but you gain nearly 500 feet of elevation in a quarter mile.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very steep.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's straight vertical, rated a five out of 10 officially.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have a little bit of a bone to pick with that designation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a little bit more difficult to read the comments.
[SPEAKER_01]: What do people say about it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you can see that there's a lot of red in the actual elevation gain.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you read the trail reports, for example, this guy who just ran it a few weeks ago in a Bronco, says it's so much steeper than any pictures can give a justice use our worth at four.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's great because you can actually go on and see what the trail reports are saying.
[SPEAKER_00]: This guy says I'm somewhat a beginner.
[SPEAKER_00]: This trail is very intimidating.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very steep with very large rock.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what's great is, you know, if you want to see the trails open and what people are experiencing in the real time,
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, or you can post your own trail report, or you can post your own pictures, which is also appreciated.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there's a little caveat here that Switzerland Trail does not run all the way to Neverland anymore.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's been like a landslide, so you can't quite get from Boulder to Neverland, but you can certainly get to Gold Hill, which is a cute little town where we like to go to the general store, because they have some of the best cookies in the world, Tommy, in the world!
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right!
[SPEAKER_00]: they still like 5,000 every year.
[SPEAKER_01]: They do, yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to have a nice lunch, you can start out in Boulder, you take Sunshine Canyon, you go to Switzerland Trail and you're up in the Gold Hill and check out the general store.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's one of the trails we commonly run and it's near by our offices which are important and it has a huge variety of difficulties.
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing that's kind of important on the Switzerland Trail is there's private property adjacent to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what people do here are learning this dirtpiking is they often mark public property.
[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, BLM land, which is Bureau of Land Management, which belongs to all of us, is private because they don't want people going near their cabin or near something that they find very personal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is the feature we use all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like if we're out on the trail, we want to find a new spur.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not sure for a lot to be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can turn on the private land layer.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can actually see based on the trail network if you are in the right area, or if you're actually on someone's private property.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we can see that there's some private property near the actual trail but a lot of it is marked private, even though it's not.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a great feature to know for sure, whether or not you're on BLM land or if you're stringing into someone's backyard.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I would become dribbled taking like a Cherokee on the Switzerland trail, you know, any any kind of soft offroader I think would do well.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some places that are a little rocky and may become relatively uncomfortable in terms of how much you'll be bouncing around in your vehicle.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in general, you won't have to have like a Wrangler or a Bronco to go on Switzerland trail except for Pennsylvania golf.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about that trail.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so this is another spur off of the Switzerland trail.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, so just search for it, which I'm going to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: So sometimes we rename, like Nab Hill, we thought was a silly name for a obstacle, so we renamed it cliffhanger 2.0.
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the way, cliffhanger 1.0 was also off to Switzerland trail, but Pennsylvania Golgi is the real name of this one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and this was rated a seven out of 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's two miles long.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of a narrow spur with which it's very, very cut through the trees.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some deep breaths, exposed true roots, large loose rocks.
[SPEAKER_00]: It says very near a shell throat for most of its length.
[SPEAKER_00]: Please keep mind, this is a country road.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's a pretty difficult trail rated seven out of 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: Certainly for most stock vehicles, it's kind of at the upper end of what we like to do with the stock vehicle, because we can't damage these press stars.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is like a pickup truck, you know, like an FX4 package on your F-150.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is that kind of a trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: Having said that, I've been stuck on that trail a number of times because people with like out-of-state plates will take vehicles and I was stuck behind the heavy-duty truck once.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to take it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing is too narrow.
[SPEAKER_01]: Apparently, my man James would just do the video
[SPEAKER_01]: over at altifl.com where we took the land cruiser up that.
[SPEAKER_01]: The new one and James is part of the Colorado offered recovery club and get this an Amazon van went up there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh geez.
[SPEAKER_01]: I got stuck in the head and go rescue it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So Pennsylvania Gold is actually not a trail I like very much.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can I can hear the disdain in your voice time.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, this is the great thing about Onix.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are some trails which are really scenic, and there's a lot to see, and you can look at the pictures.
[SPEAKER_00]: But with Pennsylvania golf, it's kind of just like rough and rocky with not a lot of payoff.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just kind of a spur route that doesn't really connect to much, at least with cliffhanger tripiner.
[SPEAKER_00]: It gets this amazing view at the top.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Pennsylvania Gulch is one I would probably avoid if I was coming out to this area.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now if you take Switzerland Trail all the way to its end.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what happens is you'll take it to a dirt road where the crosses the dirt road, and if you go right that takes you to the town of Goldhill, which is a little tiny town of, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: a couple dozen homes, population of like 200, but if you keep going on the Switzerland trail, you'll eventually get to Nab Hill, which we call cliffhanger 2.0, but you also get the cliffhanger 1.0.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like another little spur.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the whole area around the front range of Colorado, there's a ton of little side trails you can take, and it can be easy to get lost, and that's why we definitely recommend this app.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a saying Colorado that any highway turns into a four lane road, which turns into a two lane road, which turns into a
[SPEAKER_01]: dirt road, which turns into a double track, which turns into a single track, which ends at a mine.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a really cool feature.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that was funny.
[SPEAKER_01]: You look coalslapping.
[SPEAKER_01]: You look completely like.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just want to show one other thing here in this area.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is an area I do really recommend.
[SPEAKER_00]: We do a lot of filming out here.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's an area called the Iron Clads, which is off-bunt school road.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now the full iron clads, we've done a bunch of times together.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very difficult.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's rated to seven out of ten, which is kind of the most I would want to take a stock for you, colon.
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's actually a cooler trail just down the road.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is camping there, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a great point to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the reason it's glowing yellow here if you're watching on YouTube is because there is dispersed camping within 300 feet of the trail.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you need to know where dispersed camping is, it's a layer I can just click on here.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the layer setting turn it on and off and you know where you can camp away you can't.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the great thing about the iron clads is it's a lollipop in terms of the way the trail works.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what I mean by lollipop is you got the stick you write up and then you make a big circle like a lollipop and then you come down the stick and so it's hard to get lost.
[SPEAKER_01]: It starts where it ends.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, it does get pretty legy near the top of this trail.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first half has some bypasses for the Razer Rocks.
[SPEAKER_01]: Which we named as well, so you'll see that obstacle.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can go around them, but those are pretty obvious.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they're kind of in this little area here.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then once you're actually on the lolly pop part of the trail, it does get pretty serious.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I've done some trail damage on that part of the trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, there is a word to the wise here.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a rental company that does rent side by side.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you want to go side by side, and that's a great place to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you want to rent side by side, I think they come out of Estas Park as you're close to Estas at that point.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you're kind of running your own rig, there's a lot of amateurs or newbies running side by side.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just be aware that there might be people who are, who are probably going too fast or doing stuff that might be a little, well, a little in your way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's put it that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: But on the other end of fun school road, where they don't allow side by side.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a great, great trail called Plankrash.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can actually see, unfortunately, it's still closed at open 615.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a great thing about Alex.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know when things open.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know when things are open.
[SPEAKER_00]: But Plankrash is a really, really great...
[SPEAKER_00]: trail because it leans to the wreckage of a T-338 trainer which unfortunately crashed in this area in the 1960s I think it was.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so someone took a picture of the sign.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the canopy still there.
[SPEAKER_01]: The engines are still there.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, 1965.
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... major curie and first lieutenant darry veered from their intended fight path when they collided with the mountain side both members lost a life so it is a little bit sad unfortunately that that happened but it's a really great payoff to an awesome off-road trail that you can see it's right
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a five out of 10, seven out of 10.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not easy.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a good one for actually for like a lifted rig.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a standard Bronco or a standard pickup truck, let's say a Tacoma can do it, but you're gonna drag your bottom at points.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a place there.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not quite a gatekeeper, but there's kind of this open rocky, I don't know, garden, I guess, that can be rather difficult.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's also especially toward the top very tight.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I wouldn't take anything bigger than,
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello, I don't think I would even take a pickup truck in there.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it could be very you can do it But it'd be very tight.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, good point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's it's probably good for like a regular Bronco But we've done some really cool videos out there and it's one of my favorite trails in the area because the payoff is just so cool Shall we talk about the the the the the the trail high hate the terrifies me?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that one if you go up to Ford Collins
[SPEAKER_01]: Heartbreak.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Kelly flats.
[SPEAKER_01]: You want to talk about Kelly flats?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's another one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're moving north now.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're going up to Foko, if you've got friends going to the University of Northern Colorado, there is a pretty good off-road area there called Kelly flats.
[SPEAKER_01]: Colorado State University.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sorry.
[SPEAKER_01]: Colorado State.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that area has a lot of challenging.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean challenging off-roading.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, this is a trail that's technically rated in nine out of ten.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, almost rolled your Jeep there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there are some, like, we've actually not even gotten to the hardest part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there are some easier trails.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of it all.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, but that heart attack hill, that's not even the hardest part.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's parts above that, which are apparently even harder, which I've never seen.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, this is for like built out buggy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you can see that there's some pretty serious rigs out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a really, really steep trail.
[SPEAKER_00]: And definitely long wheelbase lifts, kind of, locking differentials all needed on this stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the reason we're talking about these front range.
[SPEAKER_01]: off-road trails is because in the mountains you get eight months of winter a year and stuff for the only opens up for like four months so if you come out here let's say now or even the winter you can still go off-roading you just don't want to go up by seventy you know up above let's say eight or nine thousand feet of elevation game because you're gonna hit snow and then you're gonna you're doing snow wheeling which has its own
[SPEAKER_00]: drawbacks and it's own pleasures but what's great about this too is like let's say you're in the air and you're like okay this is way too hard if you look at nearby trails there's a whole bunch of much easier stuff which is much much much more doable for lighter rigs so that's a really cool feature on this this app but if you do want to go to the mountains yeah should we talk about some of the trails of the mountains that we do
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so there's a whole bunch of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you go like an hour and a half all the way to six hours away from the Denver area, there are some really cool opportunities to go above Trenine and feel like you're driving across the moon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so up by 70, I think the very first interesting trail that you hit is at Idaho Springs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, so I think it's called Yankee Boyhill.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yankee Hill Road, and that's in Georgetown.
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't start a Georgetown.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so there are some really good ones in Idaho Springs, like we've done apex road a couple times, that's a nice, easy cruiser.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's also Kingston Peak.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you remember Kingston Peak?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, all that is off kind of the peak to peak highway.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, that's all really, really good stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Georgetown does have a trail that we do a lot called Argentine Pass, you wanna talk about that one then?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Argentine Pass, Georgetown,
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll know Georgetown is because when you're going up by 70, there's a big lake in the winter, it's frozen and they do ice racing on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you go into the town itself and then you go maybe at Mallorque to pass the town, you'll hit Argentine Pass, which takes you up to basically Peru Creek.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: The first part of it is beautiful especially in the fall because there's a lot of Aspen trees.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a creek that runs along it and then you eventually of course get to a mine and you get along to kind of a much more open above tree line area Will you'll start to do a little bit of like rock crawling and then it ends up on the top of mountain And then you can kind of look down almost under the town of Manazuma
[SPEAKER_01]: From there, in other words, you can kind of look down toward Keystone, but it's an interesting trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like a half a day, you probably need something.
[SPEAKER_01]: It depends how far you want to go down.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if you get to the, get to the, get to the mine, it's not that difficult.
[SPEAKER_01]: That might be just, well, what is on a created?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, officially, the top part is five out of 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this is kind of the hardest rock.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's great about this app is people take pictures of the hard stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's this kind of boulder that's ingrained in the ground that you really don't have a lot of obstacles around.
[SPEAKER_00]: But once you get past that, it's just kind of loose and climbing to the top.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's rated a five out of 10, technically.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and I would suggest that one in the fall on the leaves on the Aspen tree.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great tip.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, a really good tip.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gold and gold, it's beautiful, it's got a little bit of, it's got a little bit of everything.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say that this is a great trail for intermediate off-roaders or beginner if you don't want to go above the mind.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some history, the Waldorf Mindsight hosted the highest post office in the U.S.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, let's go into my favorite trail in all of Colorado, and this is a trail that has it all, but the problem, of course, is you got to go down to your way or tell your right.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want to talk about like Webster.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to talk about Webster, but yeah, I want to talk about, let's talk about the kind of the gold standard for both beauty and for terrifying, terrifyingness for stressfulness.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there are two trails that I think are the two best examples
[SPEAKER_01]: trails in the entire country, let alone Colorado, and they're both by your orientalieride.
[SPEAKER_01]: One is, and this is people have a hard time pronouncing this but it's called imaging.
[SPEAKER_01]: That is an incredible trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can start, you can start and tell you ride, and then in your ride you can start in your orientalieride.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that trail has it all.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you're driving down a river.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got one of these beautiful overall looks where you put your car onto the ledge.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there's mountains all around you.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've got some rock crawling.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're below treeline, you're above treeline.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's incredible ghost town.
[SPEAKER_01]: And just, it's just anything that a trail could have imaging has.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's more, I've done the Rubicon.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you've done it a bunch of times.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a much better trail than the Rubicon trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: Rubicon is a two day, 13 mile rock crawl torture test.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is spectacular.
[SPEAKER_01]: Once again, to do imaging, you probably need something that's off-road.
[SPEAKER_01]: Where the pickup truck wrangler, Jeep, Bronco, I'm missing Toyota.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't want to leave the Toyota guys out, so a four-runner.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you technically could do it if you were bold enough and like a lifted Subaru because actually this is now become like the place to film commercials.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you seem all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: And overall look, I just Subaru just did a commercial.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think Subaru's on a commercial there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honda has done a commercial there with the Passport Trail Sport.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Toyota has done some stuff out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean it's unreal It is that scenic.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why all of these you could take an outback on it, but you'd be miserable That's my that's my estimate because there's a lot of rock crawling this to the outback is not gonna love
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and you can see like if you look at the trail reports, it's all saying obstructed and closed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, it's expected to reopen July 4th.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like so you really have to do this one in the summer or early fall.
[SPEAKER_00]: We got four months.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because the high point at 13,000 feet above sea level by October, you're going to be getting snow there.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that is an iconic one.
[SPEAKER_00]: This whole area around Taliride is just probably some of the best offering in Colorado.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of my other favorite ones out here, Engineer Pass is really, really, really fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've done that trail a whole bunch of times.
[SPEAKER_01]: And for all of you, turn a fanboys.
[SPEAKER_01]: My friend James puts on a really great annual...
[SPEAKER_01]: Trail ride through there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it's like an event.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a Toyota specific event that happens in the middle of July.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you own a Toyota, you can register and then...
[SPEAKER_01]: It used to be called the F2 Summit, and then James took it over.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's around up now, I think is what he calls it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's a great event.
[SPEAKER_00]: He does a killer job with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: What is imaging rated?
[SPEAKER_01]: What is 6 out of 10?
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's talk about the most feared, the most, this is not even a hard trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just terrifying.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what the reason this terrifying is because personally, I hate shelf roads and this is the ultimate shelf road because the drop-offs are like 2,000 feet straight down and there are parts where you have to do one of those serpentine turns and you have to do it in, you know, like, like in 4 or 5 or 6 or 10 depending on long your vehicle is attempts.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you're getting very close to like falling off literally the side of a mountain, and I'm of course referring to black bear Tommy Yeah, that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's an interesting trail.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually not in my opinion not that hard that hard It's very hard six out of ten But it's because of the the visuals of it where you're you're looking down across this incredible canyon and like it's a very high consequence trail if you do do something dumb
[SPEAKER_00]: But if you're logical about it and you just think about, well, the stuff I'm driving on is not really that hard, you shouldn't do anything dumb.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and the other problem with it is because it's a serpentine that goes down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your passenger will be on the scary part of the trail, because at some point you'll be going left and we're going right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So they will be looking down into the town of Teliraid, which is like I said, a two to three thousand foot drop.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so if you've got somebody who is afraid of heights, or is a little bit queasy, this is not a great
[SPEAKER_01]: trail to do, but it is one of those bucket list trails, and I love the fact that, you know, unex kind of shows you how to get to it, because it's not that easy to get to.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and this is kind of the image that is, it's most famous for, essentially you're looking down through the belly, thousands of people over the town, and then there's like this off-kills to kind of pushing you toward the cliff in a waterfall.
[SPEAKER_00]: And once again, if you just think about it logically, it's not hard, but because of what you're facing and looking at people kind of build it up in their head and then end up doing stupid stuff and falling off the mountain.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you just like really think it through and take your time, you can do this in most stock modern four wheel drives.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and one of the things I love about on X is like the back side of it, there's no cell service.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you need to get to it, you can download the map to your phone.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, then you can use CarPlay or Android Auto to display the trail, so you'll never get lost.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I said, it's not, it's not a hard trail to get to, but it's not, it's not easy to get to, because you hit the one way trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: and most people don't know that because it's a little deceptive like the first half of Black Bear there is a wedding menu so people go up that part.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, but then you can't go beyond it to the second half.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so then you got to basically drive all the way around the mountain to get to the backside of the mountain and then come down.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now there is a part on the trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a waterfall.
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a part on the trail when you first started that you're kind of off-camber going down to the
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure, but it ends right in the town to tell your eyes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's very cool to dumps you down right in the town right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Same thing with imaging.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want probably the best operating in Colorado, go to tell your eyes in like September, along with everybody else.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to pay a thousand dollars a night in hotels, tell your eyes a place to do it, there are some more affordable areas, silver tins a little bit more affordable, your raise a lot more affordable, Montrose is where a lot of people stay.
[SPEAKER_00]: But this whole kind of alpine loop area is probably the best part of Colorado.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and then let's end up in our favorite place, which is, well, I'll let you, you want to talk about Mowab or you want to talk about, like Tiger Road and Manazuma.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, we can do Mowab.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's go to Mowab.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, like, if you just kind of zoom out a little bit, you can just see the sheer denseness of trails in Mowab.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's a little bit of something for everybody and, like, luck.
[SPEAKER_00]: because we're testing stock vehicles are not usually doing metal masher, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or preach it Canyon with your some other more famous eight, nine's and 10's out of 10 trail.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're sticking to more of things like fins and things and hell's revenge and Harapas.
[SPEAKER_00]: And there's still a lot you can do without having huge tires.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we'll start on the easy side of things.
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to talk about Harapas?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, her opass and that chicken corners actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, unlike fins and things and tells revenge, that's a state park that you have to pay to get into her opass is just a dirt road.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that eventually ends up as a top of this beautiful overlook down under the Colorado River.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not very difficult.
[SPEAKER_01]: Most of it, like I said, is just a dirt road.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then once you start climbing, it does get a little tricky, but that is certainly a road.
[SPEAKER_01]: I hurried past at least if you don't go over the summit, which then becomes a shelf road and then gets a little butt punchy, but if you just go to the top, you could do that in a soft rotor for the most part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and you get Western like you're driving to a wild west movie style views.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why they filmed a lot of Westerns in my way.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you've got these incredible landscapes.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like to say that you could drop your camera and not get a bad picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, it is truly just absolutely incredible.
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you have a plate inside by side, this is a great one, two.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that goes to a trail.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a little bit of a slog.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be out on the trail for a few hours, but there's a trail called Chicken Corners, which then takes you to an even better overlook, which is really, really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, what's Chicken Corners rated?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's technically a blue, but it's not actually that hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think about chicken corners.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like four out of ten.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a slog.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's a kind of trail you're going to want to bring water and food out because you can have a little bit of a picnic when you get to the end.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a one way trail.
[SPEAKER_00]: So you'll... That's two ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, no one way in terms of out and back.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's, oh yeah, that's an out and back.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's out and back.
[SPEAKER_01]: There is a way you can keep going but that gets very difficult.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can also see the weather.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you look at what the weather's doing right now, it's getting pretty hot and wild.
[SPEAKER_00]: So June, which we're entering, you're going to be probably touching 90 and 100 and then July, forget about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're going to be well in the 100.
[SPEAKER_00]: So April May is my favorite time to go, but you also like going in the winter time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, after's no snow, because I don't like snow-wheeling.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, chicken corners is a great beginner sort of trail, hard to get lost, and the great thing about that is once again, you got it all, you've got a mountain pass with incredible views, you've got a beautiful piccari at the end where you can overlook the Colorado River, and you've got the sand running, so if you like dunes, there's a whole bunch of sand there as well, so you get to do it all, what a wonderful way to spend a day.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the other area we're in a lot, which we shoot the majority of our videos, because it's just so much in a condensed area, which is perfect for video production, but also great if you just want to spend like an hour doing a lot of stuff, you don't want to spend two days.
[SPEAKER_00]: For example, like my wife likes off-roading, but she doesn't want to spend eight hours in the car.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you do the areas within the sand flats recreation area, which is a unique partnership between BLM and the city of Moabber, it's a state of Utah.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's a city of Moabber.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, there's a paid area and some of the most famous trails in the world are in here like hell's revenge Things and things.
[SPEAKER_00]: Fins and things.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And these are trails that like hell's Avengers great because you can make it really hard if you do the escalator and hell's gate and that kind of thing Or if you do what they call tiptoe through hell's revenge.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's only really rated a five or six out of ten Because there are the names gerryur them the actual exact
[SPEAKER_01]: The great thing about the sandflats area is literally like a mile and a half from downtown.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you get a milk signer where they have shakes and burgers and fries.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right as you get out of Hell's Revenge and go down the hill, which is wonderful, which is what people do.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now the one thing about Hell's Revenge, unlike...
[SPEAKER_01]: Fins and things, which is basically a dirt road that then leads you to a bunch of off-roading, is that even though there are bypasses for the most, let's call them iconic obstacles, like the hot tubs, the escalator, house gate, getting into it is a little tricky and is a little rock crawly, so like you wouldn't want to take a soft rotor just because you would never get past a gatekeeper.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true, yeah, like I think a low range is kind of a must for a lot of these trails, but the house advantage and fins and things, great if you just have like a half day, you wanna knock out some incredible hills and see if it can feel like you're driving to them.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wanna say it's $10 for a day pass.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's for the week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it for the weekend?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's 10 bucks for a vehicle per week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it for a week or maybe a week or a week or a week or a week?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you can also pay for camping.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do want to say about something else I did, which is really cool.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're looking at going to this area and you want like a little bit of taste of everything, I put together something called a rugged adventure.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is a really kind of a two, two and a half day adventure that Kase and I did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Starting off of the highway, Iseventy, snaking through Arches National Park where you get to see and hike some of the greatest arches.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then working it's way down into town and then up through some of our favorite trails in this area like fins and things out into the little sound national forest and then back down to the highway through the desert so this is like a hundred miles is what we did Realistically you could if you're pushing it you could probably do it in in two days we've stretched across two and a half or three days and there there's a link
[SPEAKER_00]: Below a shall include with to the folder if you're watching a new tube where you can actually check out that rugged adventure download it And then I've got everything like waypoint, so you can see here Optional excursions and I've got places to air down and I've got places to fill up with gas So this is a really cool thing that we built out on our next does this for a lot of their People that they work with I was gonna say influencers, but I might myself as being a journalist so like Chloe
[SPEAKER_00]: Chloe, you're a friend, has one, she did out in California, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you want to check out hers, there's all these different kind of routes.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Any like YouTuber you follow that works with onics has done kind of their favorite trails.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this might be a way to kind of retrace our steps and retrace some of the stuff that we do using onics.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what was that discount code again, Tommy?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mem day 50, MEM day 50, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a pillar deal.
[SPEAKER_00]: And seriously, of all the gear that we use off-road, this is the only one I use every single time I hit the trail, right, every single time.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, well, you're much better off-roader.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm always using the recovery guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's funny.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it only is going to work through, I think, July 9th.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, you kind of want to start, sorry, June 9th, if you want to get that discount code.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I was really proud of this adventure that we put together.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can do
[SPEAKER_00]: the same to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And there is a video you can go to Altia fell and find it or you can just go to Altia fell off road.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, case when I did a Land Cruiser versus Land Rover comparison, look for that video.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to look blaze you long.
[SPEAKER_01]: We did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so he enjoyed it to our dog, our Britney's Mountain Dog.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you can see like I left these little breadcrumbs all throughout the trail, which is another cool thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not real ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, not real bread by crows.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, they probably be gone by now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Exactly right, but you can see the little red line tracks are out.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you want to recreate it, that was a two-day adventure.
[SPEAKER_01]: And
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like I said, probably I would spend, yeah, two nights, you could do it a one night, but really two nights if you want to take your time through arches.
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, so if I were flying in the Colorado, Tommy, I'll ask you the same question.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I could only do one trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would do imaging.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's very hard to get to six hours from Denver.
[SPEAKER_01]: It really is not easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, if you really wanted to do something cool,
[SPEAKER_00]: You could fly in the Denver, do you like imaging and then drive out to Moab?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because once you're at, tell your writing, it's not that far from the lab, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you're by montrose.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's kind of the dream kind of weak.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if I was just flying to Denver though, what trail would I do?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's close.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd probably do yet about playing crashes really cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not going to be a little bit challenging for beginners.
[SPEAKER_01]: So if I were a beginner and I flew to Denver and I rented a Jeep and I don't know even if I don't take him off.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, but they're companies you can really.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I wouldn't do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would do Switzerland trail.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: You'll get you'll get a good taste of off-roading.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to get lost because you'll have anx and if you don't have anx, you're on a train trussle so it's obvious where the train runs because it's a big, let's say train trussle I mean it's a big dirt road now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's for some trails kind of like And then I would have lunch in a cookie at the general store in Goldhill Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_01]: And say hi to the owner for us because we've been going there a long time This is not a paid sponsorship.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is just us liking the place and they do actually concerts on the weekends
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, they do, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: The BOS outside of the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gold Hills a cool place.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also fun.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this might be something that if you look, if you're, because I grew up in Chicago and I loved off-roading and there was no off-roading in the Chicago land area.
[SPEAKER_00]: And look how much we have just outside of that for.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unreal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So this to me is paradise.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would say if you've got that kind of yearning to be in the wild west, this might be a good start.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well guys, let us know what you think in the comment section below.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and thanks for watching.
[SPEAKER_01]: Remember, head on over to altfl.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you want to watch our videos, thanks to our friends and annexed for sponsoring this podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: And thank you guys for watching.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you make this possible.
[SPEAKER_01]: You make it possible for me and Tommy to live these dream lives.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're very grateful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Very grateful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Especially our patrons.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tfl.card.patreon.com slash Tfl.com.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's all you guys, I don't want to forget you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, thanks guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Appreciate you.