[SPEAKER_02]: Last episode, we talked about that feeling of things just being off, almost like you're not getting the full truth in your relationship.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we named this pattern that shows up a lot for couples' ass caretaking, which isn't about being a bad part.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually something people do to try to protect their relationship themselves or their partner.
[SPEAKER_02]: But ironically, it creates more distance.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what's important here is that it shows up on both sides.
[SPEAKER_02]: You might be the one holding back.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might be the one that feels like something isn't being said.
[SPEAKER_02]: And both of these positions can feel very frustrating and definitely disconnected.
[SPEAKER_00]: So today we are going to help you shift this dynamic no matter what side you find yourself on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hello all and welcome to the Relationship Innovation Podcast.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Tara Kerwin.
[SPEAKER_02]: And my name is EJ Kerwin and today we are in part two around basically the concept of caretaking.
[SPEAKER_02]: We really defined that last week where caretaking is about sort of not feeling like your partner can handle something.
[SPEAKER_02]: and so therefore you may not bring up topics, you might avoid dynamics, you're just finding a way to avoid maybe conflict or discomfort.
[SPEAKER_02]: You think you're sort of protecting your partner, but oftentimes what you're doing is you're protecting yourself.
[SPEAKER_00]: It creates a lot of disconnection, a lot of mistrust in the system that either person can't handle or the system can't handle it, which then erodes emotional safety, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And our whole big topic, through line throughout all of our 300 podcast episodes now, is like, how do you build emotional safety especially in difficult times?
[SPEAKER_02]: because with emotional safety comes deep connection comes great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Problem solving comes increased intimacy.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so this care taking element is something we wanna really help you today.
[SPEAKER_02]: We wanna very much focus on solutions.
[SPEAKER_02]: And really what that comes down to is not avoiding hard feelings, not avoiding difficult conversations, but instead staying connected through them.
[SPEAKER_00]: and taking the emotional risks to not avoid.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and trusting that the other person can handle it and that you as a couple can handle it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I also think too like it's like we're to people even get started because like what if you have a partner that doesn't even know what's happening like it's so unconscious to them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well luckily that feeds right in the tool number one.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I feel like we're a little bit redundant here with really almost any time we get into tools.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is step one.
[SPEAKER_02]: is awareness, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And we're going to define when we go through each of these tools today and how to really enter into difficult moments together, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because that's almost the opposite of caretaking is like, I'm going to trust that you can handle it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to trust that I can handle it and we're going to move in, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Which then creates that we can handle it.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_02]: So each tool will offer you sort of for the person who might be caretaking, might be withholding, might not be wanting to go into the difficult moment.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the tool for the person on the other side, who might just be like, what's going on?
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm crazy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Why do I feel so disconnected?
[SPEAKER_02]: But yet, it's not like there's any big rupture that's happened.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I love that.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, tool one on both sides, it's really the same thing, is awareness, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: If you are the person, and the beautiful thing about like listening to this podcast is sometimes word naming dynamics that you might not be totally aware of.
[SPEAKER_02]: So if you've listened to that last episode or you got a circle back and really get that, you know, deeper dive into what caretaking is, if you're identifying like, okay, that's that's a dynamic within it.
[SPEAKER_02]: You're going to think about holding back, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Bring your awareness to like, when are the times that I hold back?
[SPEAKER_02]: when I'm filtering things, when I'm deciding not to say things, like, is that a part of the dynamic?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then again, the sensing partner is like that feeling like everything's not really okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're actually really not telling me what's happening, but then I'm internalizing like, oh my gosh, here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, they're gonna just think I'm overthinking this or that I'm too anxious or blah, blah, blah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we're gonna give you tools for both because we can't force things to come out of people, but we can create an environment that builds enough safety so we can start being more transparent
[SPEAKER_02]: So just to be explicit, the sensing partner, their level of awareness is like something feels off.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just feels like incomplete.
[SPEAKER_02]: It just seems like I'm missing something that's going on.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well here's what's interesting too, because everyone has different little feelers, like I'm hyper tuned to like everything around me, like even when we were driving yesterday there was this guy like with a bat walking across the street.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you had to be hyper tuned to see that dude walking around.
[SPEAKER_00]: But doesn't matter, I followed him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was making sure that people were safe around him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just got, I had this hyper vigilance.
[SPEAKER_02]: So like, I am like, because I would just driven by what I meant like, well, that's kind of weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: So weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like waiting for something to happen then too.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, so and here's what's really cool now now that EJ and I have like I don't want to see mastered but really are more transparent when I say like because I'll be like are you sure and before he'd be like, no, I'm fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I couldn't trust that but now that he's being more transparent more open.
[SPEAKER_00]: Trusting me more with some like uncomfortable stuff now when I'm like are you sure something's okay?
[SPEAKER_00]: And he's like yes, Tara.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually trust that that's true because I do get in my head sometimes still and I'm like no That's not the whole truth and now I'm like give you the benefit of the doubt which before I definitely did not give you the benefit of the doubt I'm like you just are so avoid it
[SPEAKER_02]: So let's tell them like how to get there, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just, so step one awareness of like, I know, like, hey, I'm holding something back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe it's not even like holding back, like that I'm not dealing with something that I feel like Tara can't handle or for whatever reason.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's that's my side of the awareness.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tara, how do you know you're holding back?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, well, for me, there feels like there's a weight, you know, it feels like, like, I just start to feel heavier.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's still lingers, like, you know, it's like, you know, you used the example last time around intimacy, like if I'm like,
[SPEAKER_02]: Really feeling attracted to you and which is all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was just all the thoughts and and that's not like like To happening and we're not talking about it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's in me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just like I'm just putting it back I do things like I justify like
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you know, I don't want to upset her.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, Charity feels bad or she's, you know, whatever.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I'm finding I need to almost have ammunition inside of my brain to justify the holding back.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So that, I mean, that's how I know.
[SPEAKER_00]: So the holding back feels like that makes sense, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like let's just say I'm having like a bad body image day or like you just really see me down on myself, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: That your justification feels so like supportive and protective.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so we have the awareness now, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So now we have to look at like, how do we like initiate really making a change, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so for the withholder with the person who's avoiding the conflict,
[SPEAKER_02]: It's replacing caretaking, it's replacing like, oh, I'm going to keep terror from getting upset.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to keep us from getting into an argument.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to avoid this topic that we always struggle with replacing that with transparency.
[SPEAKER_02]: with like taking that emotional risk of like here's what I'm actually feeling here's what I'm actually seeing like hey you know I'm feeling like super super attracted to you and hoping we could like
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, even just like go out and have a glass of wine and hang out, just be together.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's what's important too, because yes, that's something you're going to have to do, right, the avoid or person or the withholder is going to have to take the risk and, you know,
[SPEAKER_00]: and hope that it goes okay, but like I remember for me, like creating that support, like each I want you, I want to know those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want you to have to curate me, like I want to be able to handle difficult things.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I do think it's also the, when you guys are having this discussion, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's both people like saying we really want transparency.
[SPEAKER_00]: We both want to be able to trust each other, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So yes, that is your job, but it's also my
[SPEAKER_00]: I really want to hear what you think could be hard for me.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so then let's go into the sensing part.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, like, what is their role?
[SPEAKER_02]: So after they have the awareness of something feels off, it feels incomplete.
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels like something's going unsaid.
[SPEAKER_02]: What's their tool number two?
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, so I, and I do say these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like there's things not being said and I really want to know, like I want you to be able to feel safe with me to say these things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get at my reaction sometimes in the past has not been good, but we're trying this new thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I just try to get curious.
[SPEAKER_00]: Who it's dead of frustrated.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's voicing your awareness of like something just doesn't feel off.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do say this.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you do say like everything's actually fine, Tara, I do say this now because this is a healthy tool.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that that's actually true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I can't force something that actually might not be there coming from you, but that's where we have built trust.
[SPEAKER_00]: The other symptom is from the mistrust.
[SPEAKER_02]: But you do want to prepare the landing pad for me to do it, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Where you can say things like, okay, I'd like to trust that actually isn't nothing is going on.
[SPEAKER_02]: But if it was, I would really like to know it would mean a lot to me if you could tell me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like I've gotten better at being that way, but you're also so much better at being transparent.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you've gotten better because actually because I take the risk, be you've also gotten better at like you would say it, but the way you say it now feels more inviting.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels safe.
[SPEAKER_00]: This feels like it's right into two or three.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so this is where, like, especially those of you who are really breaking out of this dynamic, it's been something you've been struggling with for a long time, you have the awareness, now it's happening, you take that risk of saying what's going on or asking the person to say it, and then you have to be patient for the fact that it might create a reaction.
[SPEAKER_02]: like I might bring this piece of information about a co-parenting thing in our blended family and Tara might have a negative reaction to it and that that I have to be patient for that because if I haven't brought it up you know in six months because I've been avoiding it there's a chance it's gonna be a little tough and I have to be patient and know that this is a long-term project.
[SPEAKER_00]: what you're saying is in the beginning this process will look clunky, but the idea is like we're now being transparent, regardless of what my partner's reaction is, I'm voicing my truth and hopefully a horrible manner.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the sensing partner, their third tool is,
[SPEAKER_00]: For me, it's like staying curious, not being a accusatory, not like trying to hammer something that isn't there or you're maybe not ready to give to me in that moment.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, really like, hey, like, if there is something more, I just want you to know you can come to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm going to, I think I've said I'm going to honor your space regardless of what that is.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and to really name it, it's doing your best to stay regulated, but if you become dysregulated, do to me, me bringing this up, that you at least let me know, like I am like,
[SPEAKER_02]: super trigger and I need a second because that gives me confidence to you because the big thing about care taking is I feel like I have to manage your emotions if you manage your own and I see that even if it's managing it difficult and I'm like oh it's actually not a good job.
[SPEAKER_00]: when you have 80% of the time where your partner is managing it well and I'm not saying, oh, thank you for sharing with me honey, it's like no, but I can handle it, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You keep building confidence in the system that you can get through anything, whatever that anything is.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's what's important.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not going to be perfection, but eight out of ten times seven out of ten times where your partner can be like, thank you for sharing.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is really hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: I might need some time with us, but like, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that only reinforces right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Each A, reinforces you wanting to come to me like, oh my gosh, it actually is okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have to say this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get so excited when you come to me now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that was really hard.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I think that this is where like we're framing these as tools, but really it's almost like steps, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: There's awareness, there's a replacing caretaking with transparency, they're staying present with the reaction, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So these are like actually sort of incrementally what happens, and then
[SPEAKER_02]: tool number four and really step number four is we build emotional safety together.
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of that original experience that we are talking about, where one person is sort of holding a burden, the other person feels like what's going on is and is confused.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if it's sort of difficult, we're building emotional safety together.
[SPEAKER_00]: which is in every sense of an intimate relationship is so important, whether it's physical intimacy, emotional intimacy, you guys as parents, like deepening emotional safety, generalizes in every area of your life.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's even like worse.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, we have a lot of couples that deal with intimacy issues, a lot of physical intimacy issues.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we find out once we go through our intimacy series, like, people will like let things happen, like let just say like sex feels too rough, but they don't want to hurt the other partners' feelings.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they allow like rough sex to continue.
[SPEAKER_00]: And actually it starts to not feel safe, but the other partner didn't even know, because the other partner didn't want to make them feel bad or stop them in.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right mid hump and it's like, no you guys like your body senses that when you Can't have boundaries and share them with your partner.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't feel safe, and so like we I mean, it's it's that transparent like you and I have been in the middle of like
[SPEAKER_00]: making love and I'll be like, each day, like, I need something different.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is starting to feel really bad and you're open to it versus could you imagine if we didn't have that emotional safety and I said that to you, you would take it as a total criticism and then why even do this and now our sex is doomed.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so important.
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys, like this concept is so important.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm so thankful for the client that got triggered by the word care taking because I'm like, doesn't everyone know what that is?
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just like, no, it's we had it in our relationship for years, especially after the twins were born and we blended our family itself.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I really want to name and or explain the building of emotional safety because there's just two step process, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's one person practicing honesty even when it's uncomfortable and the other person creating space where truth is received, not punished.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's huge.
[SPEAKER_02]: Creating space where truth is received, not punished.
[SPEAKER_00]: And knowing your limitations to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're like, wow, I'm a person that gets defensive often, how do I help regulate my own system so we can be in this couple of ship together that feels really good?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like notice your own, like I would be really hard with constructive feedback in the beginning.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would take it personally, but now I'm like, oh my gosh, I want to be better.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're my blinds, but you tell me more.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but I hadn't recognized my own limitations, process that through my own individual therapy.
[SPEAKER_00]: So just like again, having a conversation around this, reaching out to us, asking us questions, helping us guide you through what that could look like for here.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want to wrap this back into, like, you know, our model, the relationship renovation model.
[SPEAKER_02]: how you can work through it through Patreon and purchasing the Amazon book relationship for innovation at home.
[SPEAKER_02]: You can work directly with terror and eye in couples coaching and basically what it is is creating secure functioning, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Secure functioning within your relationship.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is, we face discomfort as a team.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't mean we eradicate discomfort.
[SPEAKER_02]: It doesn't mean we get rid of conflict.
[SPEAKER_02]: It means we face conflict.
[SPEAKER_02]: We face discomfort.
[SPEAKER_02]: We face difficult moments.
[SPEAKER_02]: as a team, and we trust that both of us have the tools, the communication tools, the regulation tools, the awareness of negative core beliefs, and then we work through it together, because when we do, when we find clarity and conflict,
[SPEAKER_02]: We find clarity in difficult moments together, and then we both take accountability for our side of it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We increase trust, we build emotional safety, we feel more intimately connected, we feel more secure.
[SPEAKER_00]: We grow us individuals.
[SPEAKER_00]: We grow us a couple.
[SPEAKER_00]: We grow our beautiful nervous system regulation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which is awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's so good too for kids to be able to see their parents connected in that way as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not saying it's easy work, but it's worth it.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're a respite from all that tension and conflict and
[SPEAKER_00]: Walking on egg shells like you don't have to be there.
[SPEAKER_00]: We we've been there.
[SPEAKER_00]: We get it so as going to say we just have a ton of resources Like you said the at home book your men's group.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have our upcoming retreat happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have our coaching.
[SPEAKER_00]: We have our counseling center here in Tucson Like we have our Patreon Community we are trying to offer so many different types of resources to support everyone out there to build safe relationships first.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so worth it
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_02]: And this podcast is really, it's our biggest way to get information out.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's out every single week.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you have a friend, if you have a family member who you think would get something out of this caretaking series, please forward it on to them.
[SPEAKER_02]: Please give us a review.
[SPEAKER_02]: Give us a rating.
[SPEAKER_02]: We appreciate it.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's how we grow this community of like minded people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening, as always, take care of yourselves, take care of each other, and healthy, not care taking away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bye-bye.