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[SPEAKER_03]: Look at that one so hard!
[UNKNOWN]: Hope you fall!
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to Open The Voice Gate 4 May 26, 2026.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are members of the Voices of Wrestling Podcast Network.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm one of your hosts.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's real pal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Mike Spirish went alongside your other host case, low in case I feel like these shows, and especially when it lands like this on the calendar.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Seporo triple header weekend always kind of looms ominously on the schedule and knowing that it's a three network shows in three days and for the the promotion itself it's like the the roughest stretch that they have for out the calendar year essentially going from
[SPEAKER_01]: up through into Hokkaido, doing the three shows there, doing another show of Haku Date with Katsoo and then coming back down.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's a, it's a, a little bit of the Draingate version of the Canadian death tours.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I have to say for us case, I feel like that this, it creates a death tour like episode for us when we have to review these support triple shots or these support triple headers
[SPEAKER_01]: How are you doing, bud?
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would say that 2026 has been its own death tour.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think few shows are harder to break down when there's a bunch of stuff that I am dying to talk about on these triple headers because then you got to make time for stuff and how we're going to lay out this and what do you want to do here?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty pretty easy show for me to put together this week or there's a handful of things that made it impression on me some good some bad, but I, you know, I don't know, I'm blown away that were two months out from Kobe world and we're sitting with the promotion that we currently have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let's take this episode because like the last few weeks, at least on the feed, we have bounced around between having the J episode to doing those days if you're listening to this at least chronologically on the feed and let's center ourselves for where the company is looking at Kobe world on July 20th because you're absolutely right.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are
[SPEAKER_01]: seven weeks away essentially we have the cork and shows coming up in June that we have most of full cards for but afterwards we'll we're getting to a point where that the network time and the time to get the shows on the roads and the plate spending is well past happening and we are at a point at least for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: all these days out from Kobe world and just looking around at this and there's just big nebulous questions going on what the direction of the promotion is going to be going into Kobe world and there's nothing really coming out of the Seporo triple header that gives you any sort of confidence and any sort of direction other than okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: Madoka Kakuta, although it took four ref distraction attacks to put him down.
[SPEAKER_01]: He did definitively beat Roya Tanaka in Emma Hachon over these three shows and I guess that can maybe negate some direction, but we're completely adrift now, less than two months out from the biggest show of the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's really nothing that I am super emotionally invested at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the
[SPEAKER_00]: Twingate scene is going to get really, really messy as we head into world.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think they're going to end up in a direction that I don't necessarily care for.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have the triangle gate scene, you know, we had for lack of a better term.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, an abortion in Okinawa that I still can't really believe.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're going to have the fallout of that somewhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am, at this point, more interested in Tanaka breaking the record at world, maybe defending the belt once or twice in August and September and then losing to Hommari, that is sort of the thread that I am holding onto right now is I think the best way to land all of those planes that are in the air is Tanaka versus dragon kit at world.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I would let him have another defense or two.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're going to break pox record, why would you stop after
[SPEAKER_01]: I will, we still haven't had him versus Flamida yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: Lime.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, they didn't Flamida in the fall.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, they did Flamida in the fall.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had to remind myself of that as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to, oh, okay, thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I looked it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, let me mark out three lines of notes that I have on that twitch show from the 23rd because of that, but yeah, no like the the one thing that we kind of have any sort of bearing towards is the idea that Tanaka has a has the 11th drink, a brave gift defense coming up against Naruki Doy at during this double header and then hit.
[SPEAKER_01]: everyone assumes his fight card then goes to 12 at Kobe world and really that's the only thing that there's any sort of direction whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, no, after you break the record, you should they should still have another full meet-up match, guys.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like frankly, they should do full meet-up again, like it's it's preposterous why you wouldn't at this point given that the week in that
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is a promotion that is largely allergic to doing rematches during title reigns, which I don't really understand.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not a great site.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not a real site to think.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's just how this promotion is operated forever, though, as you basically get one shot at the champion, and unless you have a different pairing in like a twin and triangle gates in there, you know, as if it's dream or brave, unless it's like the Sheema Royale 15 key situation, you're not revisiting anyone.
[SPEAKER_00]: So they've done a mochi match, that's off the table.
[SPEAKER_00]: They've done, I mean, I apologize if this is messy radio, but I want to dive into this just momentarily, but the done a mochi match, the done a comedy match, they done a food match, a flamita match, Billy King Kid's not gonna come back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Rita, Ganky, Jason Lee, UT.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that still leaves Gucci on the table, that still leaves a flamita rematch if they want it, that still leaves dragon kid that still leaves Kagatore, they are doing a rookie doye.
[SPEAKER_00]: that leaves heo still on the table, and that leaves, I think that, well, and then Humari.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I mean, even with first time ever matchups, they still have quite a bit of runway, and I would exhaust all of those matchups.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would leave no stone on turn.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you have to do a Gucci match at some point.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you have to do a heo match at some point.
[SPEAKER_00]: and then you can pass them off to Humara.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's really the only thing when I look at the lay of the land right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is the only thing that I really, really care about because I think that would be beneficial to Tanaka.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that would be beneficial to Humara.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can have, you can almost do the same story you do with Shima in the Shingo with the Dreamgate Belt where
[SPEAKER_00]: Omar doesn't have to lose in his first offense, but he can lose very quickly, just to sort of break the pressure of having to follow that Tanaka rain and then you've elevated Tanaka and then Hamari at that point, Hatsus Bravegate belt, he can move on from there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, and I feel like that outside of that, when you look at the title pictures going into a co-A world and really going into the month of June of itself, and it's to really huge open questions in the first one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think because this one does not have as much ramifications for the shows that happen in Sapporo's worth getting into,
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, natural vibes are no longer the open the triangle gate champions, the current open the triangle gate champions are a trio that they lost the belts to over in Okinawa there.
[SPEAKER_01]: one the triangle gate channel championships during the Okinawa stand and they have a defense lined up against the Poseidon group when the next time that I think that they're go on string.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the titles are no longer on Gucci and Oki there on three Okinawa Pro regulars and one that's retiring on the show that the title defense is happening at on the seventh.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know where to begin with that one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's, let's, oh, I, we can get into it now.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know this show's going all over the place.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know how to break down this process.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of how the, this is going to be one of those all over the place kind of shows to be fair.
[SPEAKER_00]: Which I don't, I don't necessarily like doing what I think we're going to have to.
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
[SPEAKER_00]: The triangle gate belts were lost to a Ryukyu Dragon team on an untelive show in Okinawa.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is now been, I think, a week and a half since that match has happened, so there's no chance we're going to get the footage.
[SPEAKER_00]: It looks like it might bounce to another Ryukyu Dragon team with a wrestler that is retiring, which then I think would mean the belts would be vacant.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she's doing it.
[SPEAKER_01]: The current champion team has the retiring wrestler on it, T-Lenshita.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Gotcha.
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a chance that they have either, you know, like me, the two options you are, they successfully defended the vacate the belts, or they lose the titles, and then we just have another Ryuku dragon team with those titles, which doesn't do anybody any good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, we're two months out from Kobe world, and this is what they're doing with these titles now.
[SPEAKER_00]: So
[SPEAKER_00]: I get the feeling that heading into world, the triangle gate belts are going to be vacant, and there is a chance that we either do what we did in 2018 where we do sort of a mini one night tournament just to get guys on the card.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a chance that we have a decision match between two teams whoever they may be.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sure they won't be built up well because the triangle gate belts
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know what's in play for these, but all I know is that we had a natural vibe's rain, that I thought was really interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was really beneficial for Gucci and Oki, and it ended on an untelevised match to a regional indie promotion, which I just sort of can't believe.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and like we're used to the relationship between Dragon Gate and Ryuku Dragon, pro wrestling, be that there has been a level of give-and-take.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, essentially Dragon Gate has taken the belts from this promotion that they have been on Dragon Gate people, essentially for like three or four years they've been off and on on this
[SPEAKER_01]: There has been a series of title defenses over the over of Draingate belts in Ocanawa over the time period, but I think taking it from like the stance of, all right, with this, like, Oki and Gucci who have grown, that have really grown in this title reign, and especially Oki over the last six weeks, has,
[SPEAKER_01]: That's it for them.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a bummer.
[SPEAKER_01]: It does kind of remind me of when Jackie Kamey newty got the triangle gay belts for like three days back when they joined natural vibes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, like it does have a little bit of air of that, but it for one just completely prohibits that level of development there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then I mean,
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, do we really need to have a parallel model to help on situation happen with these belts?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, basically, for the second time in a six year time period around the biggest show there.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it just feels like, really, this is what you're trying to do right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, with all these other problems, you just decide to create a whole entire new problem within the promotion.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's wild.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really kind of wild.
[SPEAKER_01]: The idea that this happens to it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that there's like a deeper relationship with Dragon Gate and Ryu, Kyu, Dragon Pro Wrestling to be fair, but I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't see how this serves anyone, guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm on interest in exploring that relationship at this exact time in place.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think this is when that relationship needs to be explored.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, that's not what you do when your promotion is going through it right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is dropped the belts over to another promotion onto a team that is only going to exist for two weeks and then being dropped to a likely a trio that has punched them in alcohol, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had the point back to you, this was coming off of this must have been in March because the February court and was not good and in the March court and was not good and I made the point to you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I go, well, let's, you know, let's take a breather here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes, sometimes this promotion just doesn't click, but it takes one show to change that momentum and it takes one show to get right back on a roll.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we're now on a point where,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, January just feels like such a distant past.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is unbelievable when you look at those January cards and all of the things that they could do and all of the things that we were excited about and granted a lot of that was tied to Shimizu who got hurt that's not his fault and that's not the promotions fault.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we've also now passed
[SPEAKER_00]: the threshold of, you know, anything post-Golden Coliseum, I don't want to hear shimmers who is the excuse for why things didn't work out in a certain way.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're now in this stretch, February, March, April, May.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you and I liked a lot of the things on Gold and Coliseum, we're in, I think what is a historically rough stretch.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was trying to think about
[SPEAKER_00]: the other stretches of this promotion that are like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the one that really comes to mind is actually not directly after the OWE split when she molested May, but sort of that January February March April, May 2018, and I thought it was really raw.
[SPEAKER_01]: December and November 2017.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's poor.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a, that's a, you're exactly right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Those have feed lumped in there.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the, the thing that I always go back to is that champion
[SPEAKER_00]: In 2018, where yes, you had Mochazuki versus Ben K, which might have ended up even being like a top 10 match for me that you're certainly a top 10 dragate match, but you also had conno versus punch for the brave gate belt and just a bunch of other stuff that was really awful on off putting and in your right, that would start at the end of 2017 and then sort of go through debt or alive and then I think King of Gate with the actual new fresh start of the company sort of acted as a new fresh start creatively that has always to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: been the like, hey, this is the worst stretch of drag.
[SPEAKER_00]: There is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am now wondering if this rivals that to any degree.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little alarmed, you know, as I was watching double or nothing a few days ago when I was looking at how many A, W matches I have at four stars or higher this year in just how many more it is compared to dragon gated.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're almost halfway through the year now and
[SPEAKER_00]: There were a yeah down there are down dragon gate years where I have 40 to 45 four plus star matches and maybe a lot of those are on the lower in there's only a handful that are on the four and three quarters four to half star side but but there's still there but outside of that twin gate match from going to Coliseum I'm not getting any of the high and stuff and I'm not even really getting a lot of the low and stuff I there's not a single match during these three shows that I would notebook with.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there was a lot of threatening the three and a half star.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say on these shows, but like, it just really for me this like whole, like we can end that case that made me pull up my watch list that I do for like, for some people asked me for my watch list and I sold to watch list.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't do them very often.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't really publicize it, but
[SPEAKER_01]: My Dragon Gate One, and April does not change it this much, I still have to update it from April to May.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm only on the third page, and I'm just using standard text and spacing and all of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and it's matches that our three and a half stars are higher on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Just things that are very good and worth going out of your way for.
[SPEAKER_01]: I can trust that to any other year.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I feel like at this time I'm already at a point thinking like do I need to make this list be like searchable so you can hit February and it's shoot you down to February four pages down or shoot you down to August that's not even really kind of a thing at this point this is.
[SPEAKER_01]: is at least for me, match-wise, it is one of the lower years.
[SPEAKER_01]: And frankly, what do you do in one of your lower years when you're being creatively bankrupt and everything that you could try to do to kick start, you're deciding not to do?
[SPEAKER_01]: You take the belts off, the one thing that has been consistently the best act on your shows for the last 18 months.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you, after not having them really be very competitive champions,
[SPEAKER_01]: The amount of, like, Jackie read a stuff that, like, shows up on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, the one belt that consistently shows up on my list is Twin.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you can trust that with all the other title matches that are happening, and you can trust that with what they have been doing up and down the card, you're just kind of going, like, is this really, that you're not confident in this promotion direction whatsoever?
[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, at least 27 theme to 2018, we can now look back with almost a decade of hindsight.
[SPEAKER_01]: and and everything go like oh there were a lot of reasons for that but like at this point like it really goes to one person and it goes to Riosito and his booking.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like.
[SPEAKER_00]: So really poorly book motion right now, and it's a thing that I think plagues all of Japan, at least all the men's promotions Japan, a lot of the heel stuff that's happening right now, and I'm not the first person to make this point, but a lot of the heel stuff that's happening right now, would not feel as bad, would not be as daunting.
[SPEAKER_00]: If there was a very clear path to, okay, well, what so and so de thrones him, this will all be better.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I thought that was going to be Yoshioka and February, and that's why my tolerance has turned into nothing for this healing you to never sense them because now I feel like we're
[SPEAKER_00]: We're just belaboring the point and it's a point that I'm not really interested to the end.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, now it's just a thing that I'm entirely uninterested in altogether.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is no true or sentence by you has ever been more accurate than the tone and the pulse of this motion runs through how good the hill unit is at any given time.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think when you have a really poor hill unit and I think it's a really poor hill unit, the entire promotion suffers as a result.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and it's like on the shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the triangle gate title is just a giant question mark.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like they're doing paros.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm all to help on all over again.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have like the Noah connection with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Looking over to the twin situation on the 23rd, there was a double title of the twin gate, Ryukyu Dragon, so Ryotak team title match, Jackie Rita,
[SPEAKER_01]: versus team 204.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that finished case.
[SPEAKER_01]: I had to write down and I had to start doing notches on the amount of times they kept on pulling kachi.
[SPEAKER_01]: So when we talked about ref bulls in the issues with like ref bulls in this motion, there were four.
[SPEAKER_01]: back to back to back spots that were ref pulls going into the finishing stretch that loud team to afford to become the next open the twin gate and so Rio tag team champions it was the actual fall was a called dollar the the calteria luna after the jean chew but it was also after a time where they pulled the ref for not just like
[SPEAKER_01]: Not just one spot, not just the powder attack, not just the box attack.
[SPEAKER_01]: Not like this, like when things hit, it's supposed to be boom, boom, boom.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's then doing another one and another one and a cookie sheet and a cookie sheet, just a further cement the point that Jackie rates our firmly at least in this promotion's booking wise, considered the bottom permote tag team in this hierarchy when they have been in the 2025 and 2026 tag team of the year is a fucking demoralizing
[SPEAKER_01]: way to end your shows and really for like the the people that that are not into the promotion at this time that would be able to grasp onto Jackie Rita as you know case something that is to look for to on each card is holy shit.
[SPEAKER_01]: These love and peace guys when you let them wrestle and you actually book them to win it works.
[SPEAKER_01]: And instead you have to kind of piss all over that and team to a four is likely going to become triple tag team champions just to walk back into all Japan and to drop the belts over there the belts that they picked up that have been on ginkgy media for the last few weeks and it's just frustrating case.
[SPEAKER_01]: because it's so demoralizing to have a finish like that to cap a rain that has been so frustrating in that it should it should have be going down up there down there with Yamadao as like one of the all-time great tag team runs a CK1 all the like the great all-time twin gate runs but instead you're not even the promotion is just like willingly say like oh yeah you can't
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just utterly the moralizing from a motion that for 28 years at least case did not feel like the need to insult its viewers and its fans to this level of a derision.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's really, really bad.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, I think one of the things that blows me away is like, why can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why can't Eastern and Cato just beat those guys clean if they're better?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's fine if they're better, but much bigger than them, they should be throwing them around and beating them clean as a whistle.
[SPEAKER_00]: but it goes for every gacha joke or a match where they just they don't they don't ever win clean and that's what I don't get is if you're just going to have a mid card match with those guys or even you know a main event title match just just have them be the guy ever wants to while that's that's where it can fuses me because that feel like it's a bit it would be for cacuda if you would have beaten to knock a clean and it just would have been like guess what I'm the top champ fuck you
[SPEAKER_00]: year, but the thing with that is like, I don't even feel like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to go anywhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't feel like that is anything.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's going to lead to another Kakuta Yoshio, which I still think is the Kobe World Mate of that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I guess, man.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I mean, I mean, the the the the vague manure face turn that's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: The that I felt through the ether for the last three months case, it's happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think we have to accept the fact that this time that they're actually going to really try to go to manure and to.
[SPEAKER_01]: Go away, world.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really think that we have to take care of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's let's time with this manure thing, because we've sort of glossed over the entire weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to go into winners and losers of the weekend, because I have a few things I want to focus.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's get focus.
[SPEAKER_00]: We beat the server.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to talk about this manure thing real quick that we can get into winners and losers, because I think this is important to know that, you know, on the final show of these three, and I guess I also want to know real quick, I'm going to interrupt my own point, but I've been I've been mean to say
[SPEAKER_00]: These specific Hokkaido triple shots in May, I thought worked really, really well with the old King of Gate schedule, where you were able to build to one if not too big Casey singles matches during this triple shot.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not having King of Gate in the spring and early summer, I think it's a real detriment to these shows.
[SPEAKER_00]: I really missed them not being here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you also feel that way?
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah, because there was like no focus to it and like the the one thing that was kind of promoted on these shows where these exhibition matches for these two rookies that can't make the main show and they have KZ involved in that so that's what they decide to focus these shows on instead of having you know a perfect place to run through a lot of
[SPEAKER_01]: That's Jason Lee.
[SPEAKER_00]: The crazy match that I'm still thinking about.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you had a great that match was.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're absolutely right in it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But these were three shows that outside of this Coach of Menorah angle, which even then it's debatable on what necessarily had accomplished.
[SPEAKER_00]: But these were three shows that took place in a big market that were televised on the Dringing Network.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would say that these shows largely accomplished nothing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was so taken aback when I saw the cards for these where I was like, oh, there's not like,
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Flamita coming back is great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought Flamita was awesome, but there's not even really a throughline on these shows like no.
[SPEAKER_00]: These are really weak cards and they don't have to be because they had other than Masaki Mochizuki was out with an injury.
[SPEAKER_00]: He comes back today as of the time of recording this, you know?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: They had Panisezone surgery.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you know, otherwise they had the full roster.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had food over there.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had CLO there.
[SPEAKER_00]: They had junior there.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, they, they, they had all junior back.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: They could have done a lot with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, other than Ben who's out with injury, but you know, you know, how it is with us, too, or sometimes not everybody makes the trip.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, hey, that's anybody in Ben for this side.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is second, heo, during best of the super junior's last week.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he lost weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he was doing stuff and he was on camera.
[SPEAKER_01]: like helping out in a way.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, just for information.
[SPEAKER_00]: But just wildly unproductive shows and the one thing that I guess you can take away going forward outside of yes we have new twin gate champions, which again I think is really just a lateral move that will that will put this promotion in a rock in a hard place where they either
[SPEAKER_00]: will beat ishen and kato with the old guys and then the old guys will lose an algebra and nobody will care or ishen and kato will beat the old guys and then they will lose an algebra pants.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it is just a complete lose lose situation.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to keep in our going to lose in another promotion because you booked it this way.
[SPEAKER_00]: or they'll lose to Gankian Condu, which is a very realistic possibility.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, right.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you're twin gate champions.
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, are losing in a situation like by booking this title switch.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have now have somehow faded the twin gate champions to look bad in the future.
[SPEAKER_00]: So on the third night, there's an eight man text.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the semi-main event, my new.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Ganky Horiguchi, Luis Bante, Altsma Draghani, Asushi Kanda versus Eshen Jason Lee Coach Menor and Yoshiki Kato.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a four minute semi-main event.
[SPEAKER_00]: that ends when coachman nor a deliberately spits water in the face of Asian instead of ganky or Gucci, or Gucci, then hits Asian with the back slide and wins, you can make the argument that, okay, well, they're building up towards ganky and condo versus Asian and Conto, which I, you know, from a technical sense is correct.
[SPEAKER_00]: We just, that is happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is, you know, that is in theory.
[SPEAKER_00]: what they were doing there and that will lead us to one of the two core can haul shows that we have coming up at the end of next week and booked for the fifth as the fourth only has uh 20 minutes to take a risk on the fourth.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's booked on the fourth.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, not the fifth.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fifth is the 28th match.
[SPEAKER_00]: Arms right.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fourth is the 28th match.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fifth is
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sorry.
[SPEAKER_00]: The fifth is Kukuta, Manora, and Jason Lee versus Kai, Eshen, and Yoshiki Kato, it's weird that they're doing a Gajadokuro explodes match on the same show that they're doing a history of natural vibes, 10 man.
[SPEAKER_00]: you're going to get to unit versus like same unit matches on one show, which I think is really, really strange, but you're now at a point where we're going to, we're going to see something big happen here.
[SPEAKER_00]: The Zincorca, and I get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's Kukuta, Menora, and leave versus Kai, Eastern and Kato, six man tag with the implication that either Menora is going to get kicked out or Menora and Jason are going to get kicked out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what intrigues me about this is that they're doing this six man at the cork and not at the sambal hall show on the 31st, which means that I think they're going to have Manora and Lee or Manora and Yoshiyoka.
[SPEAKER_00]: I get the sense that that is the Kobe world twin gate program and that
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because it does feel like that the obvious end point is Yoshioka and Menora are going to be whatever that the next unit coming out of this is going to be with those two and then Tenaka goes in his own direction right like the well like it ties into that a little bit would you say maybe I don't know I'm hung up on the on the minority aspect of this where Sure, I guess my my push back towards oh well it's going to be Menora versus
[SPEAKER_00]: Cacuta at World, when the entire menorah story has been menorah and Eshen going out of that, that goes back to the Golden Coliseum Bill.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it would make sense that, you know, tag team specialist, Coat to Manorod would want to have a tag team partner to go off the Twingate Bells.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's on Cacuta side in this match.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, yes, he, you know, he can eat a Lariat and then we're off to the races.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the story hasn't been menorah's been fucking up Cacuta's thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The story has been menorah's been
[SPEAKER_00]: So if they go in that route, I still think it's a poor story.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can get to Eshen.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have enough time on TV with the July Corkin to do the Eshen match and have that checkpoint and then clear the road for Coach Aminora and Medokha Kakura at World.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that it has to be seen in a only a tag team kind of context here.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that
[SPEAKER_01]: you wouldn't want to, I don't think Jason's leaving because that Lee is got to dokuro at four, which that's not good for he'll unit regardless of how bad got to dokuro is like you, that's when things get real wonky.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I think that you have the amount of TV and the amount of runway that you're going to be able to
[SPEAKER_01]: And in a way, like, I get the Yoshio guy and Menorapul and making that into a tag team kind of thing, because that does solve kind of, that does kind of solve both of their problem, but it does leave Kaku to kind of out in a nebulous area of what you do with the trading gate at that point.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just think that it's a lot cleaner with a, well, with a Menorakane turned on the fifth, and then you do the checkpoint match at the next cork, and then you're okay to go a three weeks later at Kauai World.
[SPEAKER_00]: It then reads the tough question.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you if you do that, and we have no feel for if they're going to be any outsiders on a world this year and who those outsiders would be, but if you went up doing kukuta versus menorah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Tanaka is going to be busy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, what the hell do you do with Yoshi go on that show?
[SPEAKER_00]: I saw somebody do this for a big question.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't I don't remember who this was.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not going to I'm not going to look right next.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to get distracted but.
[SPEAKER_00]: Somebody in the discord today put a proposed Kobe World card in the Draingate channel and it was sensible and logical and looked intriguing.
[SPEAKER_00]: The undercard, he had a singles match with Yoshioka and Ben and I thought, God, that feels like that would be the coldest undercard singles match.
[SPEAKER_00]: that could possibly, that match would be wrestled to silence just a special singles match, class of 2016 anniversary special, Yoshioka versus Ben and Match for, that just sounds like a cold crowd if there's ever been one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like, I really,
[SPEAKER_01]: Don't know what you do with YoShio, if he is not in the Dreamgate scenario.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that Ben match, I guess you can kind of do it, but does feel like that YoBug's real side toe enough to do a class of 2016 tag match.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, okay, we've done this class of 2016.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then I need to go back to making sure Ginkie or Gucci's books are like, Antonio and Oki.
[SPEAKER_01]: lot like it I don't know if they're going to revisit that, but it is the situation of like you can't do another like real outsider because you've already done let you had him against Hanahashi last year at Kobe World in that tag match.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't think that's going to stop them from putting him with an outsider again.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just don't know, like, endless.
[SPEAKER_01]: Literally, the outsider is Schema.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know who you would do this.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you would not do Schema.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be like Masado Tanaka.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it doesn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's not like, so it doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yo, yo, she'll cause a relevant.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the same way the strong machine J is a relevant.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the same way that Yamato's been giving nothing to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: So he's a relevant now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't matter.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, that's the, yeah, it's just,
[SPEAKER_01]: I am real like confused with why they've put themselves in this position, you know, like I'm like, why is this, why are we having these conversations when they've just made it so hard on themselves for no reason whatsoever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I am really getting the sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: that Jackie and Rita are not going to be in a featured match at world this year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they will, I don't think so.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm thinking they will be in an eight man tag to open up the show, which I can't even comprehend on like a moral level, like how they're gonna trust me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, Junior's gonna need to tag with someone so he can lose in a match.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you know.
[SPEAKER_00]: But depending on what they do is a triangle gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we'll see where we'll see where Ben is at.
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, I think, I think Tanaka versus DK is the direction.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if it's not Tanaka versus Heo, I think you can have a triangle gate love and peace team, but it's Heo Ben and Junior, the triangle gate team that was already triangle gate champions, either you could put those guys in whatever and then Jackie and Rita can be an opening eight man.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's real depressing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's I think that's the route we're going down.
[SPEAKER_00]: So winners and losers from the Hokkaido shows as we just sort into the smattering of all these drag things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me ask you this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any big match recommendations from the weekend?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: Flamita being back may things, at least in theory, feel a little better.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really liked UT and Flamita versus Montaine Cielo from Night 2.
[SPEAKER_01]: I really did, and it was like, I feel like that Cielo felt like that when he was in the ring of Flamita that he was able to go at full speed at times we don't see him go as fast as he does in that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I thought that that was a lot of fun that tag match, and if I'm going to say who is a winner who are winners of the week and just because of how they looked in these kinds of matches, I would pick both for me at NCLO as winners of the weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I, I would agree with that just in terms of, I guess, I don't know if I want to give spoiler free match recommendations, but I really like Gucci and UT versus CLO and Fuda on the first night.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that made an event of Flamita, KZ and Sean machine J versus Tanaka Yoshioca and not a member of D courage, Luis Monte, on the second show Tanaka Yoshioca versus Humare and Kamora Fuda versus Bochizuki Jr.
[SPEAKER_00]: and C. L. O. Mantey versus Feluitan U. T. I guess I would recommend the twin game match as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: We night two, I thought was clearly the best of the three nights.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the only common retamatch I would I didn't go notebook on during this title ram, but I it was not bad by any means.
[SPEAKER_01]: It probably if they didn't have the insulting closing stretch, probably would have leaked out for for me.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and then night three, I really liked again the opening match, Oki Gucci and UT versus Humare, Komora and Fuda, and then C-L-O versus Mochuzuki Jr on that show.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought that was the weeker of the main events on that, the Flamita KZ, Storm Machine J, versus Hulk Drank at a new model match, you can skip in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: So,
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, a handful of of polite matches that were worth people's times.
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe I really liked the undercard on a lot of these.
[SPEAKER_00]: I liked the opening match on every single night, but it's tough.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, this is this is three shows and a lot of matches.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I didn't really love any of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, hit me with a more time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you said it, but just to reiterate your point, I have three winners and losers.
[SPEAKER_00]: Each, who were your winners and losers for the weekend?
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so two of my winners were CLO and one of my blank count of third one, Flemita.
[SPEAKER_01]: CLO and Flemita, I have to give a credit to Rhea Fuda and I don't like them giving credit to Rhea Fuda at this point, but like,
[SPEAKER_01]: he took advantage of his ring time.
[SPEAKER_01]: He had a really fun and strong kind of weekend between like the openers.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he was not put in any sort of serious position.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's a guy under the age of 30, like of course not.
[SPEAKER_01]: but he really it felt like that he was more working towards trying to prove a point and I like the fact especially on Sunday.
[SPEAKER_01]: I like seeing him face off against Aki and Gucci who Aki I feel like has like
[SPEAKER_01]: really since working on the roster every day I know made that point to J show but it felt even more so like this he is really like stepped up with it and he probably would have been like my would have been number three but he was off one of the shows like they he didn't work all three shows but I think Futa took advantage of working all three shows and looked really good throughout the weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was not intentional.
[SPEAKER_00]: This was not planned.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have the same winners that you did in the order of Reofuda one for me to two in LCLO three.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would argue that I'm famously hard on Reofuda and oftentimes I'm not interested in praising him because I think his best work is done in the ring with either Masaki Mochizuki or Mochizuki Jr. which he was at point starting this weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: But watching food on nights one and three.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought, wow, it's completely insane that he's not at a unit.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he's a wrestler with flaws.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's far from a great wrestler, but he is talented enough to be on every show, and to be factored into some sort of storyline, and the fact that he's not at this point feels insulting the food and feels a little bit insulting to the audience.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think food is in the previous U.T.
[SPEAKER_01]: situation to be fair like if I mean he's again coming back from injury and he's someone who's been constantly out with it and with U.T.
[SPEAKER_01]: like he was doing great work for if felt like two years before they were actually willing to kind of put him into things and even after they come back to injury, they would push him back down the
[SPEAKER_01]: It is something where I think Buddha doing nothing becomes like an easy, like extra, like weight on the scale for things that make this week and kind of frustrating, but if we're in the situation, if Buddha is healthy and we are in this kind of situation in August with him, that's when I'm going to be really kind of up in arms about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need a consistency on him saying on the raw is saying off the it.
[SPEAKER_01]: injured less before really making any sort of pronouncements about him, but other than it was nice to see him doing while here at this weekend.
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand the point there, my counter to that is it's not like we have five different versions of love and peace on the roster right now where there is completely full units that we all really enjoy.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're dealing with the corpse of D courage.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're dealing with a paradox unit that feels completely checked out.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're dealing with the healing unit where you and I have said our piece on.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's room to have reaffuda in a unit in a new unit on this roster and the fact that we're not doing that is a little strange to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I do have to say I did like the fact on Sunday that like you did have the hierarchy thing happen where in the open-air course you teach Gucci and hockey they come out to party anthem, you know, like there are natural vibes with this, but since it's three on affiliate, it guys food, uh, hummari and comora, they all come out to food, it's the thing because he's technically the most senior out of the three that that that that that that that that day kind of make me smile for a second
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, a good weekend for food in particular.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Flamita is on real just the life that he brings to this promotion.
[SPEAKER_01]: I dude, it's like whenever he shows up, it's not a full-center deviation better, but the promotion feels better whenever Flamita is around.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it feels more like Dragon Gate.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's further like underline.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I felt a little better about these shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: The fact that Flamina was on, I really did.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I guess the inverse thought is imagine if Flamita wasn't on these shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, there would be nothing even remotely scratching.
[SPEAKER_01]: Recommendable in my mind if it was not for a full made up.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then CLO, and you know, my eyes when these cards were announced went to CLO as like, hey, he's in.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's in a few different matches.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think look really good here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm also just intrigued by him coming out of that cage match and seemingly moving away from the Cato program, sort of what they have next online form again.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're now, you know, to the day as we're recording this a month removed from Golden Coliseum, and I'll make this point in just a second again with another rest of that we talk about, but we're a month removed from Golden Coliseum, and there is absolutely no definitive direction for CLO.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea what he's going to do next, but I will say that I thought he kept his head above water this weekend and looked really, really good in every match that I saw as.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I like him teaming with Monte, I mean, everyone who teams with Monte looks better.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like, but I wonder if Cielo and not to tie everything back in the show to Cota Menorca's.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wonder if Cielo because Cotto's kind of figured into these kinds of things because of being an Asian-sad game partner.
[SPEAKER_01]: that like it's like, okay, we're doing this face sermon.
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we revisit CLO and Cato going forward after that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it's just like pause because they have to do this face sermon.
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess they very easily could.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it's one of those programs where if they don't pick it up and revisit it any time soon, I'm not going to be hung up on it because I thought they're not what they needed to get out of it, which was slight elevation for both guys, but yeah, an August, if we go back to a heated
[SPEAKER_00]: C. L. O'Cato thing that ends with their own a plus to smash it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll welcome that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no issue with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I do think I just this promotion.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think is learning this.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we're all learning this in a real time that C. L. O'D despite it being a bigger guy is a little bit more interesting with the Gucci's and the UT's and the kazis and the dragon kids of the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a good base and because of his interesting moveset, I think he works really well with those smaller guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's displayed chemistry and recent events.
[SPEAKER_00]: With some of those types of wrestlers, I would say more so than he ever has with Kato specifically.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no, and I think like that is kind of the fun thing about that match with him and Mocha Zuki Jr. Like I was only three and a quarter on this match, but it was just a fun just like, oh, we're getting a little inspired and grappley and then CLO kind of doing, but his version of the Mocha Zuki Jr. asked kicking with it and it really kind of felt like that and it's way that like,
[SPEAKER_01]: we all know in the back of our mind like this is actually like a generational kind of match in a way and they kind of worked it in that kind of fashion and and I feel like that that's where also some of the interests with sale is happening with like in these other card stuff because like in theory if you if we're like being shoot trash case and let's be shoot trash for a second here but look like
[SPEAKER_01]: Nishikawa would have been in the dojo with a lot of these people that he had matches with, maybe not the goochies and the oxies, but like other people he'd been up against, like he has been and I think that it's kind of neat to see him like teaming with food, because I would have been a contemporary of his.
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, even though he was immediately sent off to Mexico in theory, I think that was like a nice little edge for people to kind of like just think about with like these with like CLO right now that we get to kind of experience while he's on ice.
[SPEAKER_00]: I had a group that I mean, the junior match was really entertaining because they beat the shit out of each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a complete detachment from the things that he was doing two nights prior with UT and Gucci.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a different style of match that I also thought really spoke to his sensibilities.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for some reason,
[SPEAKER_00]: He and Cato never really got there where they just potato each other.
[SPEAKER_00]: He and Cato always, I felt like we're trying to do some weird Dragonate version of irreversible force versus a movable object and I would rather than just approach that change in human influence.
[SPEAKER_01]: Shune in fluent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like drifting a little bit with like the king gate stuff.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Gosh, I just turned on just just, you know, I just turned on the new Japan show from KBS Hall and their hard camera and everything about this is like the most perverted thing that they've ever done.
[SPEAKER_00]: I heard they're still shooting the, I heard they did not shoot in the direction of the stained glass window.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, their hard camp is like weirdly like to the side of where no one comes out of.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, from it, at least what it looks like, and they have a tight and trot in right in the middle of the same glass.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like this is deviant behavior from Bushirod, a Kadani do better.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just have to say that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just had an interject with that, I apologize.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, CLO was great.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish he and Kato, if they were going to go back to each other, would just beat the piss out of each other, like he and Junior dead.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, and like CLO is like the more and more you like you watch them and the more more you see like the crowd like even though like for like this kind of silent kind of character it's really clear like it's working in its over and it's just like when they want to kind of figure out what to do with them or when they want to take them off ice for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I would say that those were like the three big winners of the weekend.
[SPEAKER_01]: Who do you have for the losers?
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have in order of biggest loser to third biggest loser, number three, Jackie and I guess I'm going to go three to one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to blow my own high spot, but number three would have Jackie in reach at number two.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have the big loser of the weekend, not necessarily because of his individual performance.
[SPEAKER_00]: In fact, I quite like what he did, but I don't think anybody had a worse weekend of booking than Humarae did.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so Jackie read it's obvious why you would have them at three and I had to say for Hulk like
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think Hulk was like bad.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just like putting him against Amari in that first night, so my main event just felt kind of mean.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because it was like him barely getting over for his balcony splash and then Amari does it immediately.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it like crystal clear, crisp and clean.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just like, what would you want?
[SPEAKER_01]: Hulk do like look bad in front of his hometown like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: like that was like a really unfortunate thing that that absolutely should not have happened.
[SPEAKER_01]: That match should not have gotten booked in the first place.
[SPEAKER_00]: Completely bizarre behavior.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand why they did that and I don't understand by Hulk one and I I understand the defense of well as people Hulks hometown.
[SPEAKER_00]: That means nothing to me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care there is zero scenario in 2026 in which PB Hulks should be pinning Amara and that puts us in a spot now to reiterate my point with C. L. where I'm a little bit more patient with him.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're a month removed from Golden Coliseum.
[SPEAKER_00]: Amara was the focal point of that show.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea what the direction with him is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea what the character of Hommari is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: His character is thumbs down now.
[SPEAKER_00]: His character is thumbs up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he's supposed to be despondent over his hair loss.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he's supposed to be using that as a motivator to get back to the top of the card.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if he's being cycle out.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I can't believe they're just kind of doing nothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can trust it to the match he had with Heo at Corkin and like there were like no real flashes of Oh, or the eight man in Kyoto like of oh now that he's no longer with Soon he's going to go fly and he's going to like show what he can be As like a baby face now he's going around doing thumbs down to the crowd they're going to thumbs down back as a towel if him doing a thumbs down on it that's being sold and
[SPEAKER_00]: He's booked an openers and he's booked a loose to be the whole kind of zone coming show like that's what he was up up to in this weekend and but I can't tell just to you know I can't tell for supposed to be like okay well you know he's he's eating his lumps but he's he's going to get back there once his hair grows out a little bit watch out because hombras going to get his revenge on the roster
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if that's what they're doing, or if he's just randomly losing to BB Hulk and singles batches now, because in this is an issue with Hulk, and this is an issue with the entire that they run shows in, it's not like, at least to me, maybe you disagree.
[SPEAKER_00]: When Hommari and Hulk stared across the ring from one another in the bell rang, it wasn't to me like, oh God damn, Hommari's wrestling BB Hulk in his hometown, this is a big match.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's say that's not how it came across to me.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I felt like, oh, this is Hulk's highlighted match in his hometown, and it looks like Kamari is the person who drew the straw to be in this match.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, far be it for me to ever suggest, Bochuzuki Jr. losing, because normally I'm advocating for the opposite, but you can do Hulk versus Jr. why?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you have to beat Humarae?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the purpose is that serve what good does that do anybody?
[SPEAKER_01]: It does just kind of make you just shrug and go like, okay, what are I guess are we waiting for soon to come back to do that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Next up, but I felt like it was pretty clear that the two of them weren't what we're like ending in tunes like you fucked this up.
[SPEAKER_01]: So you have to sit in it and I'm going away now.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they're like, why are we waiting around for or at least?
[SPEAKER_01]: And looking at like, what is announced for next weekend, next week's
[SPEAKER_01]: Nothing, nothing around Hamara is being mentioned with nothing at this point.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he's going to be cart filler essentially.
[SPEAKER_01]: It feels like.
[SPEAKER_01]: And last he gets kind of put in a situation that go out there and to have a February 2017, talk a hero, y'all remember, big Bosch and Mizzou match-up, nowhere.
[SPEAKER_01]: Unless we're like, have if they're trying to do that in order to just roll us into,
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, no, Hamara is a phenom, like the phenom that we know is I don't know what they're doing because like that's that's me grasping at straws basically hoping that they're just trying to intentionally make us think that he's back to being a second year wrestler.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a little blown away by the fact that, you know, it's fine, whatever they want to do, it's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just pick a direction.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're a month removed from Gold of Coliseum, and I don't understand what they're trying to do with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm with you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a chance I miss something, but I don't, I mean, you don't feel like he has a defined character at this point, do you?
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no, I was more just meaming saying thumbs down because I don't know, no, I know what you're saying there, but it's like, you know, shoot a skywalker having an injured ankle shouldn't put homaries career on hold that that's why I'm wondering, and grasping a straw is in wondering if we're getting February 2017 like he's going to, who's the, who's the opponent.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, junior.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, no, they don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, they wouldn't.
[SPEAKER_00]: They don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's the problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: In February, 27.
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks a lot, no, no, no, there was a 20 minute Yama Moore, a Shimazu time limit drawn the undercard that was the massive coming out party for both of those guys.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then they just happened to also be inserted into the main event that night.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I would say, especially in the case of Yama Moore, his career was never the same for a positive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Shimazu was Evan Float, Evan Float is an entire career.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I mean, it would be, I think Komora would be the guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I love the war.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want them to do something with him desperately, but I don't think they're going to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't, I don't, it's, again, it's not like he's bursting at the seams.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, it like all were one Hommari match away from being back in business.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I don't think they want to do anything with him right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like that to me is the crazy thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is that even if my direction goes with that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Is he going, are they beating him down having him be in this funk before he says I need to go do training elsewhere and go on scursion.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still have there.
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that's that's something that you think is likely I do not.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't I don't think they can afford to get rid of them because the guy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just trying to resist.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, no, no, no.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm with you on this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, that's not what I would do with this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I think Hamari is my old, he's already at a point where he doesn't really kind of need like that kind of break with this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just trying to read the tea leaves.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm trying to make sense of this as much as you are buddy.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is real profiling.
[SPEAKER_01]: So
[SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't call this a stockdown, but this was definitely for the thing that the shows were kind of promoted as at least from the network is what was being booked on to the shows.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if we really got the best out of the situations for Dysuji Guchi and Koki Oshima with us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I, the X, so Dysuji Guchi had an exhibition match on Friday the 22nd.
[SPEAKER_01]: Koki Oshima had one against Kazy, so that was Kazy on the 23rd and then the two of them tied against Jackie Rita and then exhibition on the 24th.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, like, these guys have been around forever in the Dojo, like Oshma only up until when they appeared at Korak and it felt like the only time Oshma ever comes out of the wood work other than Ring Boy duty was whenever they were in Hokkaido because he's from support.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was really, really hoping that like we would get some just real piss and finnaker like rookie sources veterans and just really see these two kids like really like get their asses kick but in the way be like okay you all showed a level of scrap.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we're going to do a trial series now and then like kick off a trial series there, but what just happened afterwards after the Tech match was Roy Ocito grabbing a microphone and saying like, I don't think we're there yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think after those matches that we saw, I don't think they're necessarily there yet.
[SPEAKER_01]: And at least in die suit you Gucci's case, he doesn't necessarily feel like a
[SPEAKER_00]: I know you were on that with me.
[SPEAKER_00]: I explained that to the people that weren't in our DMs this week.
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your thought process there?
[SPEAKER_01]: So, Dyson Chuguchi had his match against Asumiyakosuka.
[SPEAKER_01]: And Asumiyakosuka just tore through the kid.
[SPEAKER_01]: And the thing about Dyson Chuguchi is that he is a little bit taller.
[SPEAKER_01]: And he is a more beefy kind of guy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't feel like he has like the snap or the timing of it, and maybe it is that I've watched a lot of like best of this super juniors and stuff like this, so I've seen like new Japan or dojo guys like he feels more like a like a no gay dojo guy to me than someone from Kobe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's way too early to tell.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't make that a so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, he's these two guys have been around forever, though.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've seen them in future matches like dating back like that 20 like late 20 24 at this point.
[SPEAKER_00]: it's odd I found the whole treatment of what they were doing on these shows to be odd to have them be exhibition matches at intermission no less I found the whole thing to be a little strange but all the jacquiri to think was odd I mean the match was fun all the matches were fun but I
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, I have no read on them yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's a little odd that they're being portrayed as losers before they've debuted based on the promo segment of the Rio site.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think that's really strange, but, you know, what can you do?
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the least of this motion's issues right now.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just was like a weird feeling to me like I remember when you was chicie kato like beat puncho managa and an exhibition match and everyone was like oh shit okay and suddenly became like a rookie with buzz one is debut match the next month like I don't understand like the long term kind of play for this and maybe this is one of those things that I'm that that I'm two in the moment with this but like
[SPEAKER_01]: The usage of KZ and Hulk on their homecoming shows might be a stockdown kind of thing for me because it just felt like why are you using KZ in this thing with a guy that you've tried countless times and he does not seem ready.
[SPEAKER_00]: As we round third on this episode, Mike, I am not watching any of the best of the super juniors with heo in it, you have what can you tell me when I was going on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: So he has had four matches so far and best the Super Junior.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's at four points.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to run through my notes real quick for all four matches.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to take too long for this case.
[SPEAKER_01]: He is two and two.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's had matches against yo on the 14th, Dyskase Sasaki on the 17th, El Desperado on the 20th and Kushita on the 23rd case.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's play a little game right here.
[SPEAKER_01]: Two of those matches were good work performances, two of those matches were stick fest.
[SPEAKER_01]: Take a guess who were those?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you mean the four names again?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yo, Daisuke Sasaki, El Desparado and Kishita.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I'm gonna have to go with the good being El Desparado and Koshita.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was kind of a trick thing because she was both good and a whole lot of stick.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yo, Daisuke, yo was a stick fest.
[SPEAKER_01]: Sheo won in three minutes with the Samson driver.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was all a character work.
[SPEAKER_01]: Daisuke Sassaki was more of Daisuke Sassaki's character.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was more of a work kind of thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: We got time with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: El Desprano was just a plain work match.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that was the best match he's had so far.
[SPEAKER_01]: grounded.
[SPEAKER_01]: It was worked around the knee with that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I went three and a half on it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because she she the match was frustrating for me because case, you know who actually is the main character of heo and best of the super juniors.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's tough to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's miles more stuff animal stuff than he ever does in Dragon Gate.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And check any heo clip I've seen has been with the stuff to animal.
[SPEAKER_00]: That has not maybe
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so like Cushita match like the Cushita match was Cushita being pissed off about it being like a stuff animal match, and then there was the stuff and then became like a stuff animal match, and he also sold a whole lot like it it he was getting picked apart in these matches, but all this brought a match is worth kind of going out of your way for he was secondly over as we expected, but like
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm so looking forward to the Taijiishamori match as like really hoping for him to really get that time here for it.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're now in the split block night, so there's not as much of just compressed stuff on it, but it's about what we expect, I would say.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think you should have come across like a major league wrestler or like a minor league wrestler doing a tour for New Japan.
[SPEAKER_01]: no he comes across like a star okay yeah and uh he goes he he's going through the crowd there's a ton of heo uh t-shirts and crowd signs and all of that like is it sticky?
[SPEAKER_01]: is it like 25 to 50% more stick than he does in dragon gate?
[SPEAKER_01]: yes
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it working for this audience?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: Is it the kind of output that I'm not saying this to like do like a jab at him?
[SPEAKER_01]: But is this the kind of output that would have people like Joe Lanzo shaking their head?
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's exactly what we expected.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's a little disappointing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have liked for him to have not leaned on to the stuff animal stuff so much more so as much as he is, there was a time in New Japan in which that would have absolutely not happened somehow New Japan has become the default promotion for things like that to happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know if there's any really good heel match to shoot me a message, but I'm a little checked out on that which is disappointing, but I don't I don't have the patience for stuff animal wrestling.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would really go for the El Desperado match.
[SPEAKER_01]: So far as the thing I would have watched from it, he has show tomorrow, which is just sound ungodly.
[SPEAKER_01]: Robbie Eagles is pretty strongly booked, and I think he's gonna win the block, but he'll complete kind of spoiler against him.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the last match night, I think he saw his time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know when his match against Hygias.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, so he has both Hygias and Robbie Eagles and Corgan.
[SPEAKER_01]: So those are pretty high hopes for those two athletes.
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
[SPEAKER_01]: But in less there's anything else I'm forgetting, I think that's going to hit for this week for open the voice gate.
[SPEAKER_01]: They have not yet posted the card yet for this upcoming weekends network show in Kobe, Sambo Hall, that's coming up on the 31st, nothing announced.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just checked to see.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we'll be back next week to talk about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, at 30 under 30, we'll have a wrap up, and we'll talk about our list and our thought thoughts about 30 under 30 in general, but okay, so then it's going to do it for us this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can follow us on social media, at Open Voice Gate.
[SPEAKER_01]: You can follow a case that underscore in your case on Twitter.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm at Fuji Haya with two eyes like Don Fuji on Twitter.
[SPEAKER_01]: The Voices of Wrestling Discord is also a great place to discuss, Dragon Gate, the Dragon Gate channel that we talked about earlier.
[SPEAKER_01]: Everyone's trying to make sense of what Kobe world 2026 might end up being, but also there's the open-to-voice gate channel as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where we have all of the match listings for all of our historical content.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whenever there's like a program, we know it goes there as well, and that's on the Voices of Wrestling Discord.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's going to do it for us this week.
[SPEAKER_01]: We'll be back with you next time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Take care everyone.