[SPEAKER_00]: Welcome to the intentional fatherhood podcast where we explore what it means to live on purpose as a father and how legacy starts at home.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Justin Whitmorely, and I'm Brooke Moser, we'll be your hosts, and we desire to bring biblical hope and practical hope.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Welcome back to the intentional fatherhood podcast, Justin.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are here today.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about money, providing, we're going to talk about work.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been talking about all these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to talk about who's introductions are better.
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether that was as good as my last one.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure, but all here's what I could say, well, would you tell the people if you could tell one thing at the top of an episode that would be exponential for us and them if it like what's the best way for them to say like, hey, there's been helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, if there was one or maybe a couple ways, what would you say top of an episode, first thing that comes to mind is,
[SPEAKER_00]: Isn't it like subscribe?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, set up the question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, send us a question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Leave a comment, maybe anything like that.
[SPEAKER_01]: This really helpful.
[SPEAKER_01]: And on any platform, I have to say it is pretty amazing to see my team is letting me know that Spotify, the Spotify community with the Fatherhood podcast is showing up.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, they're about to outpace the Apple podcast community.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Great.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's make it happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: But the reason I like it is because we hear this from people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, your podcast just showed up on my recommendations.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then that happens because people are liking it, subscribing.
[SPEAKER_00]: We, you know, we also hear people say, my friend sent me this and now we're listening together.
[SPEAKER_00]: Listen with your friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: This podcast is not for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is for you in community.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, listen with your friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: And for the wives listening, we love you.
[SPEAKER_00]: We so glad you are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to talk to your husband.
[SPEAKER_00]: So get on this.
[SPEAKER_00]: We need to talk to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell him also to also want to say we have events.
[SPEAKER_01]: We have some my events go to our website intentional fatherhood.org.
[SPEAKER_01]: Check those out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Always but I might be highlighting that I'm wearing some exclusive merch that was from just one of our events.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's fun.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, you did so good with them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Mike, oh, I wasn't surprised.
[SPEAKER_00]: Big take the way is showing up at the first ever intentional fatherhood retreat.
[SPEAKER_00]: The first conference I've ever put on, such you put on an eye came and spoke at.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we had a big year merch was.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, this is our rate.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's our merch.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we're one.
[SPEAKER_01]: We absolutely, this is biblical.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but my only quibble with the merch is that you did not yet get in the fox on it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why you didn't put it on.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still nuts.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a wolf.
[SPEAKER_01]: It just loved it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You said better than a whole people who should know.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's even better.
[SPEAKER_00]: But people ask, like, is it a fox?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, it's a wolf.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a gender curious dog thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not, it's not a species curious fox.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a wolf, it knows it's a wolf.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let me actually, let me just say this out.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me say it here.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know,
[SPEAKER_01]: If you give everything away the first time, and I don't mean give like, um, it costs.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we have to go somewhere, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: And you want to mix and the next one, the most I'm not saying anything.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying the wolf is great.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's a lot of ways that we can use it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so my first thought was like, let's, let's build some momentum.
[SPEAKER_01]: And in there is a, you know, in that is a life lesson specifically to marriage as well.
[SPEAKER_01]: You got to warm up.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's wait, I can't move on from the wolf to talk about money until I say, here's the result of the wolf.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it initially as a design.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you don't want to talk about the good intention of fatherhood.
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, so it's also that all over our branding on this podcast.
[SPEAKER_01]: So hopefully you'll see it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you guys hit.
[SPEAKER_00]: But
[SPEAKER_00]: I like it because there's this masculine part about the wolf that's, you know, the lone wolf out there.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: But our wolf, his head is turning back.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's looking and realizing he's part of a pack.
[SPEAKER_00]: And he needs his brethren.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's intentional fatherhood.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're pushing out into the world, but then turning back and rising, I'm not alone.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think that was accidental?
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I don't want to know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is because there is the lone wolf, which is a part of a situation, but if you understand wolf culture, and I'm very, you're beginning to wolf culture, you're beginning to wolf culture, wolves thrive in a pack.
[SPEAKER_01]: But there are moments where there's the lone wolf situation and finding the pack is so important.
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, this is not why we exist, but it's a fun thing to talk about on the side.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let's talk about, we've been, we're in this season, season three about calling
[SPEAKER_01]: This is going to be kind of the start we kind of mentioned it already, but of getting into the particular topics where vocation hits real life and really what then we are to do and how to look at different things, how to then build in habits and life structure to maybe support some of these things.
[SPEAKER_01]: The first topic we want to dive into because it affects so much, it can help or hurt so much,
[SPEAKER_01]: and providing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we want to do like a really deep dive.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love for you because we've been doing this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean at this point or mind mapping all these details.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I would love for you to read the mind map for this for this particular episode because this is a funny one.
[SPEAKER_00]: I and you did this where I love I love you go.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yes, so I'm thinking about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: money providing like what are all the topics we want to cover and they're different you know depending on whether we're talking to one of you young fathers who maybe you know your wife is pregnant and you're you don't have kids you're not established in your career yet and then some of you does listening your way along in your career you have different concerns so I'm trying to mind that like what are all the things that are on my
[SPEAKER_00]: Providing.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's my mind map.
[SPEAKER_00]: All the words touching providing family, money, riches, support your wife exclamation point.
[SPEAKER_00]: Take on that one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Support your wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: Money does not equal evil exclamation point.
[SPEAKER_00]: The love of it does.
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll dive into that.
[SPEAKER_00]: generosity, simplicity, stewardship, my word touching that would be careful of this word.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's too important to misuse teaching kids accountability and finances and oh wait here on the edge, I hate taxes.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like it's on my mind map.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the biggest word, but it's like kind of out there on the edge.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been hard to access these for just a few weeks.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, I hate taxes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Every time I think about steering, I'm money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I get mad about taxes, but I pay my taxes.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think you ought to, you're allowed to lobby to change the law on them.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even think we have an option not to unless we don't have an option.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't even think you do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And they usually go to prison eventually.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's kind of how it goes.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, I love the mind map.
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, here we go today.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to talk about money.
[SPEAKER_01]: Before we talk about money, though, as it is falls into this bigger category of stewardship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, can we?
[SPEAKER_01]: Are you okay if we start with really doing a proper job of defining what stewardship is?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, and all that that word actually touches because money's a One of like five cat way more than five.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, but a lot of categories, but it's an important one But I think there's probably three or four or five other really important categories of what stewardship is so I ironically when we were talking about this, I was just sharing with this with you
[SPEAKER_01]: As I've been processing my own life, I was journaling probably a week ago, and I would literally was just naming things that I felt responsible for, and it was things like work for us, like the nonprofit intentional, all that falls under that, my wife, my kids, my family, and the word that then just obviously popped up was stewardship.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so this took me on like a creative word search and understanding of like a deep dive of really trying to understand what that meant for me personally.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, at this moment, I don't even think we had fully, we had, I think maybe landed on the idea that we were going to do some, this season on work.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we hadn't talked about whether money would be, money or even this word stewardship, that wasn't even actually, this was literally and the best part about it for me is that it's been a part
[SPEAKER_00]: personal marination that I've been focusing on.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like when we came to this I was like, oh man, this is perfect.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, what are your thoughts before we jump into or on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's talk about that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me set it up with two passages of scripture.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, big picture of stewardship because father is listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the main theme.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Stewardship like the word or not heard at misuse or not, maybe it hit abuses in your church.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, but it is the primary biblical paradigm for money.
[SPEAKER_00]: So it is it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's I'll get the super high level and then I want to hear your deep dive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: First, first Timothy, six, 10.
[SPEAKER_00]: So important.
[SPEAKER_00]: The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.
[SPEAKER_00]: Here, that again, it's not money.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the root of all kinds of evil.
[SPEAKER_00]: The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some people eager for money have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my gosh, it's so true.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of the things that we want to warn you against is making an idol of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: And one of the primary ways you do that is by thinking it is yours, so which is different than being a steward of something that someone else owns and I think I'm not going to read the whole parable, but I think so often of Luke 12, the parable, that I'm sure- No, no, I'm just literally going to say that, absolutely you're mentioning it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so, um, Jesus is warning people.
[SPEAKER_00]: He says, watch out, be on your guard against all kinds of greed.
[SPEAKER_00]: Life does not consist in an abundance of possessions.
[SPEAKER_00]: And look, maybe now's a good time to just throw this in.
[SPEAKER_00]: We talk about a lot of sins in the church as we ought to because the Bible talks about them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But one of the ones that I do not think by any stretch we talk about enough, because we don't talk about it as much as the Bible does.
[SPEAKER_00]: We don't talk about it as much as Jesus does, is greed, is the love of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus
[SPEAKER_00]: Jesus thought this was one of the most dangerous things.
[SPEAKER_00]: He talks about it all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: The New Testament talks about it all the time.
[SPEAKER_00]: We, if we're going to steward our vocations well, our work well, our money well.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got to get on the same page that Jesus, the Bible, the New Testament God, thinks greed is super bad, super dangerous.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so then he tells the parable about the the rich man building silos and making all his plans.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll tear it on my barns.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll build bigger ones.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll store my surplus of grain.
[SPEAKER_00]: Things that could be mistaken by the way for holy ambitions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Ooh, who knows if his friends were speaking into his life.
[SPEAKER_01]: Call call begs.
[SPEAKER_00]: Call me the last episode.
[SPEAKER_00]: But
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, and but you you get a signal here.
[SPEAKER_00]: He says, I'll and I'll say to myself, you have plenty of grain laid up for many years take life easy eat drink and be married.
[SPEAKER_00]: He's turning his vocation in word, not outward.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is what I'll do.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I'll take it easy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll eat drink and be married honestly sounds like a lot of you planning for retirement.
[SPEAKER_00]: So careful, because sometimes we mask retirement a stewardship and it's really just trying to, you know, take it easy eat drink and be married.
[SPEAKER_00]: But then here's the point God says from you fool this very night your life will be demanded from you Then who will get what you have prepared for yourself?
[SPEAKER_00]: This is how it will be with whoever stores up things for themselves, but it's not rich towards God
[SPEAKER_00]: And the concept of stewardship is the answer to these problems because it's where we realize what we have is already God's always has been in fact I love my church we say this every time we take the offering we say collectively more than this, but we say and what we now offer is already yours
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, generosity, giving money away is so important because it reminds us of this fundamental paradigm of stewardship that we have our life, our breath, our family, our work, and definitely our money on loan from God.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is His, that ours.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what do we do with it?
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's that's big picture.
[SPEAKER_00]: love.
[SPEAKER_00]: Drill us, drill us deep into it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because otherwise, money ruins people.
[SPEAKER_00]: It ruins the dad's listening.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do we not want to do it?
[SPEAKER_00]: How do we steward your turn, bro?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I really want, I just want to say thank you for sitting up so well because it is such an important topic that we can easily miss.
[SPEAKER_01]: But that stewardship of finances, but that's only one thing that doesn't belong to us.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so we now just in the bigger category.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I mean, in the rest of that passage, which I was waiting for you to read, but there's that one line in Luke 1248 to whom much is given much will be required to the right that you know, you shouldn't I'm just saying that that's just we're, that's probably having each other.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what we have.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just saying that's the add on there.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you've been given much, guess what, it's going to require much.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if you are married, if someone said yes to you,
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been given much, if God's given me the gift of kids, you've been given so much.
[SPEAKER_01]: No matter if you have a magnetic deep pink account or not, if you have money at all, you've been given much.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you live, we can arguably say this in general.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now these are big generalities, but if you live and have shelter and food and a job, and at least some things consistently to have health and be able to live, arguably you're doing better than in the majority of a lot of other parts of the world.
[SPEAKER_01]: And to live in America is in many ways outside of, you know, homelessness, poverty, things that we can't always, you can't always control different things going on.
[SPEAKER_01]: You are some of the richest in the world.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're hearing this, it probably by nature means you have a smart friend, which by nature means you're doing great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is for you.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've been given much, not much as required of you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's first Corinthians 4, 2, which I was going to mention.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's required of stewards that they be found faithful, much has given much is required.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it's required of stewards that they be faithful.
[SPEAKER_01]: But let me say this, not successful, faithful.
[SPEAKER_01]: So it got us not looking for you to be successful.
[SPEAKER_01]: Stewards do not have to be whatever the world would say is successful.
[SPEAKER_01]: But he is looking for people to be faithful.
[SPEAKER_01]: So what is stewardship faithful, faithful, faithful management of what belongs to God?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's essentially what you said.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I said that again.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's good.
[SPEAKER_01]: Faithful management of what belongs to God and it belongs to him.
[SPEAKER_01]: It all does and he's given it to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's trusted to you.
[SPEAKER_01]: But let me just tell you what that includes because again, this is my deep dive.
[SPEAKER_01]: This is where it's been like so life-giving because I I can sit and just go like stewardship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Nice school and then forget of how and where it applies.
[SPEAKER_01]: Listen, this is going to hurt a little bit.
[SPEAKER_01]: All of us.
[SPEAKER_01]: Myself included yet again.
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's stewardship of your time.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you spend your time?
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been interested with it.
[SPEAKER_01]: You gotta think about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your body, I hate this one too.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because there's times like Justin's trying to go to the gym after this, I'm like, I'm not gonna go.
[SPEAKER_01]: You should come do your relationships.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a stewardship issue in your relationships.
[SPEAKER_01]: Friendships, bounce, kids, your influence.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you have it, now you got more work.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the big one.
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll be close.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it ate in social media.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a big one.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your resources and then lastly, but not exclusively, you're calling.
[SPEAKER_01]: you have a stewardship of a calling.
[SPEAKER_01]: We've been talking about this.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you form it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you find it?
[SPEAKER_01]: Would you say that's sort of a stewardship of your talent?
[SPEAKER_01]: Wait, in that sense?
[SPEAKER_00]: Mate, like what you're good at?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I would say what's in your hand to do?
[SPEAKER_01]: You're like what you're made to do.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there's a stewardship to even find like God has put you on this earth for a reason.
[SPEAKER_01]: There was
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't even need to go into it, but the fact that you even be like our human on this planet is just insane when you think about the, when you think about how many humans have ever been alive and will be alive, like the fact that we are here, this is such a huge gift to understand that.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let me just give you, like where does this get real?
[SPEAKER_01]: we are fathers that most of the men listening are married.
[SPEAKER_01]: So let me just say this friends where this gets like really real.
[SPEAKER_01]: You have a stewardship over your wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't own your wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been entrusted with her.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've been entrusted with her heart, with her trusts, and the environment of your marriage.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a stewardship issue and what that can look like like when you're if you're sitting or going like, well, what does that mean that looks like creating a space where she feels emotionally safe?
[SPEAKER_01]: That doesn't mean you can't disagree.
[SPEAKER_01]: Emotional safety is not like you can't disagree with one another.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's that you can disagree with love and trust knowing that you're not going to use that information to hurt them later.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's different.
[SPEAKER_01]: So creating that honoring you do your honoring her.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're not managing her.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're trying to honor her and you're cultivating
[SPEAKER_01]: Practically what a stewardship of your wife look like it looks something like that You're not the owner.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just responsible to show up and to be a person that cares for her Think of cultivating language Another one because this is something that I was looking into because I was thinking okay, what does it look like I'm thinking with my kids?
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that look like?
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I just note on that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I just think it's it's so helpful
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't understand stewardship of money unless you understand what stewardship is yes, and it's taking care of Something that is someone else's and I actually just think that is a very very very Important point for a lot of men.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your wife is a daughter of the king She's God's God made her and it's an it's an amazing thing that we have our wives
[SPEAKER_00]: But the amount of dignity and respect, it's just so possible in any culture.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, so many cultures have had so many nasty men and so many, metnasty, masculine traits.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's by no mean Christian masculinity to dominate over your wife.
[SPEAKER_00]: to expect that she is just for you in this world that she's basically a tool of either pleasure or possession.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's just far, she's more royalty than that.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's a daughter of the king.
[SPEAKER_00]: You must steward, you know, but you are the steward.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're the head of the household.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you are in charge of making sure this goes well, but it's just a great category to see the bigger picture, but also to take seriously your respect and your relationship for that woman called your wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: I couldn't agree more.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just laughing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Justin's just got back from a weekend away with his wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's been, you know, I'm an author.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I can just even talk about your, your eyes are letting him, I'm like, yeah, boy.
[SPEAKER_01]: I know that.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just put that on air.
[SPEAKER_01]: We can take it out.
[SPEAKER_01]: But we won't.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, thank you for, for that.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's like we're talking about Stuart and children.
[SPEAKER_01]: But even Stuart and the kids, like, well, because, here's where I think Stuart should becomes a gift, your kids came through you, not from you.
[SPEAKER_01]: they're gods.
[SPEAKER_01]: So just think about this for a second.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're God's kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: God is used in your wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: He's done the miracle.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, he's used your biology.
[SPEAKER_01]: But this whole thing, this whole concept isn't, you didn't make it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're like, when God says they are his kids, like that's, he's used you to, like, yes, they come from you, but they also come from God.
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's the beautiful piece is that I think that that's a gift because think about how
[SPEAKER_01]: We think that it is completely up to us as parents to save them, to hold them, to protect them, to keep them, to make sure that they're fine, to make sure that they have everything that they need.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we can sometimes take the place of God for getting that God cares about your kids' health, their future, their sanity, their life, way more than you do.
[SPEAKER_01]: And when we partner with him in prayer to actually see these things come to fruition, what a gift it is to remember.
[SPEAKER_01]: We are not ultimately at the end of the day, the only ones that are trying to contribute to their well-being.
[SPEAKER_01]: that will create of the universe is and so I think that's a huge part of it and we we have to remember like you can't shape your, you can't control your kids outcomes, but you set the table, you set the environment, you shape your environments, you guide, you bless you release these are the things that it looks like just to where your kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, I also just want to mention one more thing about, I mean, we could talk about stewarding your call.
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, let me, you're about stewarding your organization.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, I wanted to, because I think those, I want you, I don't want to make sure you hit on that, because then we're going to look up and be like, so you got a steward your money in order to care for wife, care for kids, care for your company.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you know.
[SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, but do the organization one.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, the organization, well, I mean, it's just stewarding your organization to simply like what we often think that a win for us is a win for the organization, but that is not always the case.
[SPEAKER_01]: And usually isn't in lots of ways.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that when you're thinking about stewarding a space is it a place where people feel safe and are cared for and provided for are you setting up the kind of situation you said this earlier.
[SPEAKER_01]: is your organization set up to where you can help people actually live?
[SPEAKER_01]: And then if so, is it, are you making the kind of decisions that can sustain it so they're not in a bad spot?
[SPEAKER_01]: In the future, you know what I mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: So the stewardship is like, how do you handle the finances of the company?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you make wise decisions that are not just for a quick buck for those who are at the top, but is actually the best decision for everyone that would work in
[SPEAKER_01]: How do you steward your organization, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that's where I think stewardship is a really interesting thing because when you are a steward it kills entitlement That's what that's what I've learned so much like when I'm a steward I'm not entitled to like will that position or that thing or more money because it's like well, it's not technically money anyway So good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's my job.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like actually not being titled
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's a hard posture, but stewardship, why we want to start with this as far as the topic before money is because it affects everything actually.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think your father who needs your stewardship.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_01]: Your father who needs your stewardship.
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you can steward and learn what that means and how to apply that to your wife, your kids, your company, and your calling.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to solve your problems in life, but I promise you it will give you a lot less grief.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, a lot less pain.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, this side of heaven we experience so much deep pain.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's so good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, I say that like not just a transition, it's so good because it honestly gets me excited about how to cohearantly view your money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So whether you're working in for profit or not for profit, remember that's not the dividing line of good or bad work or meaningful or not meaningful work.
[SPEAKER_00]: The dividing line is are you working unto the Lord and service of neighbor outward or are you doing this for yourself?
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's going to be where you start to love money, root of all evil bad stuff, but stewardship.
[SPEAKER_00]: is this idea that when it comes to money, bring it back now, just like literally talking about money, do you use it for the good of those things that you are also stewarding?
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're wife?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your children, your organization, your neighbors.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I put
[SPEAKER_00]: in that order on purpose.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because this, I think, um, is, it's just wise.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I think you should think, yes, dear listeners, fathers, listen up.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you should think in concentric circles.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Surprise, surprise, surprise.
[SPEAKER_01]: You're, you're, you love those over time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I love them.
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I love them too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Concentric is by nature, not overlapping.
[SPEAKER_00]: There, well, your one is nested in the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's argue about it on the other side of the program.
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Picture a bull's eye, concentric circles, getting wider.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: One of your first priorities of your stewardship of money is providing for your wife and kids.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would say probably that's your first call.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's name some things that that's not yet.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is not yet generosity, actually, because I think you need to be able to be generous to your family before you think and traditional terms of being generous outside.
[SPEAKER_00]: As you need to be able to provide for them, if you're giving all your money away,
[SPEAKER_00]: and you're not caring for what you're not doing it right because you're not caring.
[SPEAKER_00]: So first you're just thinking about I'm not and I'm not talking about I just want to be careful with that statement.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of you might miss here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not talking about providing for your family is more important than generosity.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying in stewardship it's the order is important.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, orders are what it's the first thing you do.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're providing and some of you out there may not be some of you may be living on the
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, on the youthful whims of I'm not sure what I want to do yet and your wife and kids are suffering, but let me highlight one nuance that I had the only reason I'm saying this is because as a pastor this came up a lot, this this this statement well, I don't know if I, I don't feel like I'm supposed to tie the right now because wrong, but because I can't give my family the life, I want if I take that 10% every month or as an example.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, well, we're not talking about just so we're clear, we're just talking about if you're not providing the very basic necessities for your family, then you need to, it's, it's not just one or the other, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's important to not try to talk yourself out of blessing because that's what ends up being, you don't have it when you're generous.
[SPEAKER_01]: the levels of blessing that come and I wouldn't even say just come back at you financially, although that's a huge part of it ironically, which is so interesting.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the blessings of your heart that all of a sudden money doesn't take over.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can't tie when you're making no money, promise you boys, you're not going to retire, they make a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, when that number grows, you are just going to be more and more stingy and find more and more reasons.
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to start now because it's not even about giving the money to give it to, you give it to the church, but there's a lot of good places to give money.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's at giving a money away just helps your heart not become bitter and
[SPEAKER_01]: selfish and so anyway.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just to say all that keep going.
[SPEAKER_01]: I just want to say that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: You put that better than I put it because I think that's right.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think there's ever a situation ever where you shouldn't be giving away at least 10% of what an ever income you have.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't care how poor or stretch your finances are.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I just want to note that in the biblical paradigm that leaves 90% at least.
[SPEAKER_00]: 90% is, that's a lot, so you need to be taking serious care over stewarding your wife and children by providing for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, let's nuance that with the concentric circles by saying you are doing that in simplicity and with an eye towards generosity.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I think two of the virtues that we need to talk about and unpack what they mean wasn't mean to be generous, wasn't mean to live simply, but I think you think about at the center you need to provide for your family, at the next concentric circle you need to steward your organization because that's going to be a big part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now some of you.
[SPEAKER_00]: This may or may not be true.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're running an organization, both broken I happen to.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is important for us, but you might just be working somewhere.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's fine.
[SPEAKER_00]: It still works.
[SPEAKER_00]: You, you, you still need to think about how my being a part of that, but you're not making the financial decisions.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when I think about the my law firm.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure when you think about intentional.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're thinking about stewarding this sort of extended household in some sense, yes, of people that work with us, and in some cases for us, and there's a great biblical paradigm for this that Abraham had a household to take care of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: People that were depending on him that he was kind to, that he was generous to, that he was living
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, with and stewarding wealth for.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that's really important.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm first thinking about my wife and kids and then thinking about the health of my organization.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then I'm thinking about the broader world, giving to my church, giving to the poor, giving to justice causes, giving to non-profit causes, by the way, giving to things like intentional.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've got mad at us because at the conference, we were like, look, you should donate to intentional, put some hot gas like this, and put some emissions like this.
[SPEAKER_00]: And some of you should, you should get to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But finding organizations like intentional or something else that you have to, I think of these is sort of the concentric circles that without one, the other fails.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you lose generosity, your family fails.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're not supporting your family, generosity fails.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So earlier, I was kind of fumbling with words and you helped correct it, because
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of you want to hear this intention.
[SPEAKER_00]: We often frame it in tension.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I was saying, there's a coherent whole of stewardship, or you are providing for your family.
[SPEAKER_00]: You are efforting to live simply, not lavishly, because you want to be generous as you realize.
[SPEAKER_00]: And these three categories, I think, stewardship, generosity, simplicity are all worth exploring, because they're parts of how we're going to
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you want to tackle that one first?
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm, yeah, I'm tackles the, maybe the wrong word.
[SPEAKER_01]: I, I think it's just maybe, uh, it's implicitly an interesting one, um, because we have to really define it.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'm, I'm just thinking of, because I want to be fair to anyone listening.
[SPEAKER_01]: Simple to one person might not be simple to the next.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now that doesn't mean that you should just define some simplicity as you want.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the law.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, or that's the rule.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, we mean by living simply is that you're not living an unnecessary excess that takes away from other good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean it's a good way to put it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just trying to highlight like what because it's simply is simplicity not having a nice house is simplicity not having clothes or I mean we, if you get into that list, no, I know there's there's scripture for this there's ideas for this.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's just highlighting that if you're trying to go down and make an exact list of what simplicity is, it will be really tricky because then you'll just start judging other people pretty hard because their list is different than yours or the list that you think you've calculated from everyone else.
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think simplicity starts even in the heart of like, am I just consuming, consuming, consuming and not giving?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where can I simplify my intake?
[SPEAKER_01]: Where can I simplify my, of all sorts of things?
[SPEAKER_00]: Here's my best, I think simplicity is as important of a concept as it is hard to define.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: But here's my best take for you, dear listeners.
[SPEAKER_00]: Matthew six, 19, through 24.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go read the whole thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know the passage, don't store it for yourselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Treasures on Earth where Maul is in Vroom and Destroy where Thieves break in and steal, but store it for yourselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: Treasuring heaven.
[SPEAKER_00]: We're moths and women do not destroy where they do not break in and steal for where your treasure is.
[SPEAKER_00]: Their heart will be also.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's so interesting that the next verse here is the eye is the lamp of the body.
[SPEAKER_00]: If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light.
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that have to do with wealth at all?
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that have to do with it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Right in the middle.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your eyes are unhealthy.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your whole body will be full of darkness.
[SPEAKER_00]: And light within you is darkness.
[SPEAKER_00]: How great is that darkness?
[SPEAKER_00]: And then Jesus is back to it.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one can serve two masters either.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll hate one or love the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: You'll be devoted.
[SPEAKER_00]: One despise the other.
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't serve both God and money.
[SPEAKER_00]: sandwiched in between this idea of be careful about your well store up treasures and heaven you can't serve got a money is this idea that you You have to see right and I think better thinkers and writers in me have said this this is the idea
[SPEAKER_00]: simplicity, you can't serve two masters, you have to see one.
[SPEAKER_00]: There needs to be a simple integrity to what your vision is, which is, I think, I think stewardship, honestly, it's saying I have an integrity of vision, a simple vision, which is one thing matters.
[SPEAKER_00]: My money is not for me, it's for other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that leads you to a couple probably practical conclusions.
[SPEAKER_00]: not multiple.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have multiple houses, you literally can't sleep in two places at one time.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have multiple houses,
[SPEAKER_00]: It should probably be because you are being hospitable and have great service to other people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not because you want to show off how rich you are, that's loving money in yourself, not God.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you have more wealth than you can spend and many of us do and will, that means you should be giving it away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not just spending, trying to figure out how can I spend it on myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's probably a limit to how many cars you need.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's probably a limit to how many places of clothing you need, how many paintings you need in your house.
[SPEAKER_00]: You might say This is beautiful and that would be great by an expensive painting to show off the beauty of God's creation to honor the artist to Be hospitable to guests, but don't buy 35 paintings to show off how rich you are But by 35 paintings to show off how good creation is.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's fine
[SPEAKER_00]: That's simplicity in my mind, and it could have a no painting result.
[SPEAKER_00]: It could have a one painting result, or it could have a 35 painting result.
[SPEAKER_00]: But either way, it's like, well, what are you doing here?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are we doing this?
[SPEAKER_00]: Why are we buying what we're buying?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think simplicity means try to buy things once as much as you can.
[SPEAKER_00]: As in, don't buy something you know is going to break.
[SPEAKER_00]: Buy something that might be a little more expensive, but you know it's going to last.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's simple.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think all of these have a singular vision about them, which is to say, my life is not about my stuff defining me and making me look this or that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's about stewardship of my money for the good of others.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's serving others.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's honoring the kingdom's glorifying God in his creation hard to pin down, but but you ought to spend your life exploring how to live simply with your money.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think I totally agree with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Interestingly enough to simplicity, I think is, I wonder if it's less of, I know it's true.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's less of a law and more of a wisdom principle.
[SPEAKER_01]: It is, it's totally, the reason I'm saying that is because a lot of people, those who might be a little extreme, try to put it in law, like, well, it's this, and there's this many pieces of clothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, if you're trying to put it in law, it's not law.
[SPEAKER_01]: You've lost, it's worth it.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's wisdom.
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I mean is think about when you have too much of anything, too much clothing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now you have too many decisions you have to make when you're already decision-fetied.
[SPEAKER_01]: and you have too many cars, now you have things to take care of.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's the funniest thing is to watch, I've had a handful of friends and it's been interesting to watch.
[SPEAKER_01]: I've gotten incredibly wealthy, like just came into money.
[SPEAKER_01]: My first thing is I will never ask them for money and I tell.
[SPEAKER_01]: Second thing in this very important is it has made their life.
[SPEAKER_01]: So complicated and what I mean is now they've got an opposite problem that they didn't even know and like you We're talking like it's the Timothy and many have pierced themselves with many griefs It is so interesting to see my therapist again back to back to him said because I was trying to process this with him.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like
[SPEAKER_01]: Things Brooks Therapist says for 300.
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, I'm going to tell you, yeah, we'll, we'll get, I think he come on the show.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a legend too.
[SPEAKER_01]: 75, he's incredible.
[SPEAKER_01]: But anyway, he, um, I was trying to process with him this with him because it was just like so interesting to watch how money changes people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's not the only thing, like there's other kinds of simplicity I'm talking about, but I'm specifically talking about those who have come on to a lot of money pretty quickly and maybe they weren't ready in some ways to hold some of it, or maybe they were, but they just distorted them on.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's been interesting because he said there's two ways really, as you boil it down to receive money.
[SPEAKER_01]: And how you handle that money.
[SPEAKER_01]: Basically, that money comes in and you start living very differently and everyone now knows that you make a lot of money and that's going to change all of your relationships changes your status and culture It changes your status and relationships because now you could take everyone on vacation so when you could but you don't it can be like and no one's ever said that they've even asked you're supposed to but now there's like this expectation that you could but why wouldn't you so now you got a weird tension that no one's ever talked about
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: But you could, but you're not so what does that mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, you could, friend has an idea for a business.
[SPEAKER_01]: You could fund the whole thing and change your whole life, but you don't.
[SPEAKER_01]: So why?
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, so naming all of that, he's just highlighting all that.
[SPEAKER_01]: Or.
[SPEAKER_01]: you make a lot of money and you don't live differently at all and he told me a story about some people that he knew they came into a lot of money and they had the decision to make and they made the decision that they were not going to change their cars, their house, I mean just minor few things.
[SPEAKER_01]: But what they did do was buy an insane house cash in Italy,
[SPEAKER_01]: And basically, vacationed there as often as they could.
[SPEAKER_01]: And no one really knew that they made any more money.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a little bit of a discipline of secrecy here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, which I want to talk about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what did they kept all their relationships?
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't change their status in their community.
[SPEAKER_01]: They didn't become the people that everyone at church was trying to talk to you because we're doing a building project and whatever the thing was.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like, man, that is such a beautiful reminder of how to think about success money, all that stuff.
[SPEAKER_01]: But it comes down to like,
[SPEAKER_01]: Simplicity, like think about how much easier that is.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, okay, we have this money and we want to do a good job of stewarding it.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things we're not going to do is make our life more complex by adding and adding and adding and adding.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I think this is interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: That is super interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think it is still firmly in the wisdom territory of, you know, what's wise for you and your family to do with your wealth?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because that's good.
[SPEAKER_00]: We also, we need models who show us how to live with money wisely, how to give it away, and an over emphasis on secrecy.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I do mean an overemphasis, because I think the vision you painted was beautiful, is Yes, because I got a withholding of showing people like here's here's how to be wealthy and Handle it well like here's how to give here's how to spend it on the right things, you know, and I would hope you know a couple like that for example Is letting lots of other people stay at their Italy house, you know not just saying oh, nobody knows about it, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the types of people that make that kind of decision, you can see have a lot of different, deep convictions in other areas that would overlap with that kind of lifestyle, whether there's generosity built in and of course that's the case.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think even when we're talking about, you know, you mentioned this and I chatted about, we chatted about this for a second before we hit record of like,
[SPEAKER_01]: the spiritual discipline of secrecy.
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not the spiritual discipline of keeping secrets just so work clear.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the spiritual discipline of doing something really rad or something really great happening or some money coming or whatever and not talking.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because you want to be careful about, no, no, because, I mean, that what I mean is like not not drawing attention to yourself, basically that that really very real thing that when we do something great, we have to tell everyone about it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's a lot of beautiful things in our life that aren't meant for everybody.
[SPEAKER_01]: They're actually just meant for you and God or you're in a person, right?
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's to just say, like, there is a wisdom and not sharing.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, some people take this way too far and they just kind of err on anything that I do cool.
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't tell anyone ever.
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's like, okay, that's one angle and one way to do it.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also think like,
[SPEAKER_01]: agree with you.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think balance is so needed with even those who would get money and steward it well, we need examples.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm saying for me personally, I don't know if I could like make millions of dollars all of a sudden.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I would hope, I would hope that I have the character, you know that well, but I'm also like, I don't know, that's not how I have it.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's not happening.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't know.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really weird tension to hold.
[SPEAKER_00]: So anyway, yeah, I mean, and we're just talking about the tension.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you want to
[SPEAKER_00]: dive into this tension.
[SPEAKER_00]: Go to Matthew six.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's where passage I just read is that's also the passage.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think traditionally people pull secrecy from it's earlier in verse five six and seven about when you pray and fast don't be like the hypocrites and show it off, but it says, go to your room, close the door, pray to your father who is unseen, then your father who sees what is done in secret will reward you.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just say, words you openly, isn't it?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, but I think this we obviously don't keep all our prayer and fasting in secret.
[SPEAKER_00]: So we intuitively know from the context of the Bible that Jesus's command here was against people who were doing these things in order to gain notoriety for themselves, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Public say I'm so holy because there's commands throughout the Bible to pray.
[SPEAKER_00]: together and to fast together.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we know that Jesus was against this idea of using what he had given you to steward.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, for your own self-aggrandizement.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and so I do think
[SPEAKER_00]: Simplicity and secrecy are good.
[SPEAKER_00]: Particularly secrecy is good.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think when you think you are meaningfully at risk of not doing this well, it's a virtue to just say, let me just shut up about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me not tell anybody that I just got a huge raise and that that might make my family look at me different.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's a wisdom decision, but I think there's also a world where you embrace the idea that God is lavishing blessings on you.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not yours, and you openly and openly walk with friends and saying, how do I do this well?
[SPEAKER_00]: How do I do this well?
[SPEAKER_00]: And one thing that's a lot of things that you'll have to do, but one thing we know in the main thing, this comes from all over the Bible is generosity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, if you're not practicing giving money away, then you'll never be good at having money.
[SPEAKER_00]: You must practice giving money away and I suggest giving increasing amounts of it away in order to be good at it.
[SPEAKER_00]: So two practical suggestions here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have
[SPEAKER_00]: friends.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I like this idea.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not a state of goal of learning a nice life, but it's a conversation I'd like to have of saying, hey, at some point, if things go well, our lifestyle should be capped.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we should actually talk about where is that?
[SPEAKER_00]: Where have we provided sufficiently for our boys and where have I provided sufficiently for you Lauren such and we say that enough is enough, but our generosity remains uncapped.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would have stated ambition of my life.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would like to die having given much more away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Then I have spent on myself.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Our boys go to private school right now.
[SPEAKER_00]: It is expensive.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes a bearous about how expensive it is.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've made the hard decision that I think this is a really good thing to spend our money on.
[SPEAKER_00]: But one of the things Lord, Lord, and I've talked about, not necessarily committed to, but we aspire to, is to one day have a given more to low income Christian education than we ever spend on our own children.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a goal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because we want to be more generous than we were, even providing them ourselves for ourselves.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's one, I think, another, so that in that practice, by the way, is have a conversation with you spouse about it, at what point do we have enough and how can our generosity never stop?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, second practice I recommend is have a plan for your generosity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Lauren is so good at this.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, we have not only had a plan that said we will always at least every year give 10% away.
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way that works for us, by the way, is because I run a business and I don't really know what I'm making.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that we, we base it when we file our tax return, which is almost always late and October.
[SPEAKER_00]: we then know what we told the government was our gross earnings and we look at that number and we look at the gross number and we say it's a people looking at that and that's fine I recommend gross just if you can't give more give more and we say okay we got to give away at least 10% of that and then by the end of the year we make sure to give that money away yeah
[SPEAKER_00]: And that takes a lot of planning, dude.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's been very hard.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've been in like bad spots before, where it's like, oh, like this year was better than we thought.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't do we save enough to give.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've been in spots where it's like, oh, that was more taxes.
[SPEAKER_00]: I hate taxes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Did I mention I hate taxes?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in a mind map recently, I think it's hard and it's taken us a lot of planning to get there.
[SPEAKER_00]: but we're starting to get into a better rhythm of saying, okay, here's how we hand, here's how we steward our finances so that we can always be super generous.
[SPEAKER_00]: And lastly, Lauren, I have also started, this is more credit to her than me.
[SPEAKER_00]: She's really pushed us in this direction of saying what kinds of things do we want to be generous towards?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we've sort of divided up our giving into three buckets, evangelism and discipleship,
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, poverty and justice.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, um, oh shoot, we just talked about this yesterday.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now I'm blanking our third category.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was just local church, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, it was faithful presence.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's right, faithful presence.
[SPEAKER_00]: So things that we give to to affect culture, things that we give to alleviate poverty and bring justice, and then things that we give to to help evangelism and discipleship.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been great for us because it's like, here are three, there's many things to give to.
[SPEAKER_00]: But these are three things that we love.
[SPEAKER_00]: There are also three things that are happening in the local church.
[SPEAKER_00]: Lots of our giving is around it through our local church.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: course.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's given us a great way to think about stewarding like we think even when we even when we get a paycheck like we're aware of other things besides our groceries this might pay for and we have big goals of saying we want to help this organization do that or we want to do an end of your gift like this and that helps us just constantly know that the first fruits
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, like what I talked about primacy earlier, like most of your money is going to use a support your family, you should support it, but the the primacy part, as you Reminded everybody is that you you set aside that amount to give.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, like I never provide for my family based on 100% of giving or sorry 100% of it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I'm always thinking oh it's less 10% at least
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and some of my friends just set that aside at the beginning of the year.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
[SPEAKER_00]: But because yeah, with being a business owner, I never really know what it is so different.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, each person's story, this is where it's like you have to apply your own story.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want to just know I love your heart.
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you for sharing that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And actually, I think again, so many, I really agree with you that
[SPEAKER_01]: the idea of secrecy or the idea of success or stewarding, well, it's not one or the other.
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, and even as you, and this is where I love our friendship and relationship, you're changing my mind in real time.
[SPEAKER_01]: I think secrecy is good.
[SPEAKER_01]: I also think it's really good.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's both.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like,
[SPEAKER_01]: not overdoing it is good, but also noting that God's doing great stuff is also good.
[SPEAKER_01]: And this is weird tension that I think you need discernment in each moment to ask like, is this from me?
[SPEAKER_01]: It's from you.
[SPEAKER_01]: So actually, I really, I really agree with you on that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's also beautiful for you to give an example of what it looks like for you guys practically in the arena of generosity.
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I think that's a lot of it too.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, well, Justin, what does it even mean?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do I just like give 10% to the church or what?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like does it have to like this?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think it's a good reminder, 10% is not a legalistic term.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think it's a really great starting place and I think that it's a starting place.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'd say if you can get to a place where you, I know something that I pray into because I don't know how.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would love to live off of 50% and give 50% away.
[SPEAKER_01]: and give 90% away.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now again, I don't know how it's gonna, I live non-profit, remember?
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, it's different for me.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, even to say like, just as a goal for me, like a stated goal that something I'm processing through, I would love to one day as an on-profit.
[SPEAKER_01]: I would love to be able to lead intentional and work for intentional and not have to have a paycheck for intentional.
[SPEAKER_01]: That would be a stated goal.
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I have no clue how that would happen because I still have to live.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is my primary job, but if there was a different way or you know, if something worked out like those are things that I know are on my heart because I want to I mean it would be so cool to like in my mind to dream about like it would be so cool to work for a place and not have to take from it, but just to give you know what I mean yeah I love that for lots of reasons, but just what we're going to wrap up today, but I want to just say this generosity yes it is about money.
[SPEAKER_01]: But generosity, we're talking about stewardship, I have like three questions to ask yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: But generosity.
[SPEAKER_01]: it's a heart issue man.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a heart issue because we're only talking about money.
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know how amazing it is to be generous with your time?
[SPEAKER_01]: Do you know what a gift it is when you look somebody in the eye when they're trying to talk to you and you don't feel or act rushed?
[SPEAKER_01]: That's generous.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you give people a text back, even though you don't have to, but you do, generous.
[SPEAKER_01]: When you take time to have a conversation that you'd rather not have with the friend because you're
[SPEAKER_01]: Generosity is very, very, I mean, it's linked to money in one sense, of course, that can make change.
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're talking about money in stewardship, but I just want to highlight, because it's always more.
[SPEAKER_00]: Generosity is like a life style.
[SPEAKER_01]: I want people when they think of me to think, dude, I guess it's a generous person.
[SPEAKER_01]: And with money, sure, but in any way, I can be, I want to be generous.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I often find money is one of the best places to practice it.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, because you don't become, you don't give money because you suddenly became generous.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: You become generous by giving money.
[SPEAKER_00]: I still get, it is taking us, Lauren, I so much practice of saying, well, we'll get, I don't feel like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I will get, and I, and I slowly become the kind of person who wants to give,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, you know, you just, I think you said earlier, your fatherhood needs your generosity.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Your fatherhood needs your stewardship.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but your fatherhood does need your generosity.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it needs you to be practicing giving money away to remind you that none of this is for you.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
[SPEAKER_01]: What's your heart?
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I give one tiny story and then three questions to ask yourself this week?
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll let you, I'll let you wrap it up.
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: The story is out a lot of pain, points with my dad specifically, but my dad was on the flip side.
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the more generous people I'd ever met.
[SPEAKER_01]: He was always giving everything away all the time.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like constantly, as much as he could, he would just, whether it's buying a meal or doing a thing.
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, countless things, hard to even describe how generous he was with so many different things.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I'll just say this, people really like being around generous people.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I remember thinking through as a kid, you just kind of picked these things up.
[SPEAKER_01]: But I remember noting that my dad was like, why is he always giving people, like if somebody asks for something, he just gives it.
[SPEAKER_01]: He doesn't always even think, he just does it, he's something I'm doing.
[SPEAKER_01]: And I, the countless people you blessed by just being present to, to generosity.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just, it's just incomparable.
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
[SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, it's just to say like the generosity lifestyle is, yes, of course, starts with money, but it also extends as we said.
[SPEAKER_01]: When it comes to stewardship, I think there was three things I jotted down.
[SPEAKER_01]: This was, again, in my own personal processing, but there's three things that I was processing through.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was the first question, and this is for you this week, like when you're thinking about stewardship, yes, money, but what have you been given?
[SPEAKER_00]: Ask yourself that question.
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_01]: Name it.
[SPEAKER_01]: Name your kids.
[SPEAKER_01]: Name your wife.
[SPEAKER_01]: Name your name it.
[SPEAKER_01]: What have you been given?
[SPEAKER_01]: I promise if you let yourself go, it's a lot.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's insane.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like why I started making this list.
[SPEAKER_01]: I was like this big.
[SPEAKER_01]: What does faithfulness look like here?
[SPEAKER_01]: What I mean is where you're at right now?
[SPEAKER_01]: What does faithfulness look like in this area?
[SPEAKER_01]: Your wife, your kids, your money.
[SPEAKER_01]: So name those things like identify where you've actually, what have you been given and then what is faithfulness look like to that and we kind of talked about that.
[SPEAKER_01]: And then just ask one more deeper question and this but I've been working on what needs to change and how I'm handling it.
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's the other part is certain things that I'm stewarding.
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not stewarding well.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I might be stewarding money well, but not my family well or vice versa.
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's to get to a place where I can recognize, no, no, no, I got to, I got to need, I don't, I can't need Money more than I need a healthy family.
[SPEAKER_01]: I need to remember a priority there.
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what needs to change?
[SPEAKER_01]: And again, this is honest reflection tools.
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're sitting around listening to this or if you guys are looking for stuff to say, what do I take to the group this week?
[SPEAKER_01]: What should do that?
[SPEAKER_01]: Answer those questions for yourself.
[SPEAKER_01]: What have you been given?
[SPEAKER_01]: What does faithfulness look like in those areas?
[SPEAKER_01]: and what needs to change so you can handle a better and stewardship more effectively.
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's a big part of your vocation, men.
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a big part of your work.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yep, what you can do with that money that you make, give it away, live simply, provide for your family.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a famous saying, what time is money?
[SPEAKER_00]: And I have often found it much easier to give away money in my recent life than it is to give away time.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I haven't actually found any easier to order money than order time, the budget money that you can order money.
[SPEAKER_00]: I wish I could order your life of money.
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know you could order money.
[SPEAKER_01]: I wanted to take it out.
[SPEAKER_00]: Dude, there was an incredible credit card scheme about 15 years ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the Federal Reserve was selling these new type of quarters and people were using credit cards to buy quarters so they would buy thousands of dollars of quarters.
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, take it to a bank pay off the credit card and they'd be just made points like just cash points.
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then the reserve relations stop taking credit card and the credit card companies were like, you can't buy money with money, but there was a need moment.
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, time is money.
[SPEAKER_00]: I found it easier to order my life of money recently than to order my life of time.
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to talk about time and work.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you manage productivity?
[SPEAKER_00]: Balance time with your family.
[SPEAKER_00]: I say, bro, let's come back and talk about that next week.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do it.
[SPEAKER_00]: See you next time.