WEBVTT 00:00.858 --> 00:03.222 [SPEAKER_00]: brought to you by BedroomBattlefube.com. 00:03.463 --> 00:06.148 [SPEAKER_00]: This is the cable top miniature movie podcast. 00:15.947 --> 00:27.297 [SPEAKER_00]: Back in 2023, I had a great chat with the legend himself and the chambers, it was an absolute pleasure and I'd like to think that we covered some ground that it doesn't usually get to explore. 00:27.958 --> 00:38.106 [SPEAKER_00]: This week, I'm going to re-roll the conversation for the benefit of those who've recently discovered this podcast and for those of us with slightly leaky, middle-aged memories. 00:38.967 --> 00:46.954 [SPEAKER_00]: Back in 2023, and they were talking us through zeo Genesis, an anime inspired me to make skirmish game that he'd been working on. 00:47.455 --> 00:51.819 [SPEAKER_00]: It has since successfully crowdfunded, and the game is now out there in the world. 00:52.339 --> 01:01.828 [SPEAKER_00]: And in May 2024, and they also took on a lead role on Warlord games conflict for a 7 design team, so he certainly been keeping busy. 01:02.788 --> 01:11.053 [SPEAKER_00]: All right, let's get into our conversation then, where Andy kicks us off by answering the question, why do you think this Hobbit still exists? 01:11.753 --> 01:26.901 [SPEAKER_01]: Because people like doing things with their hands is, I think, at the heart of it, all um, ever since I started working in the 1990s, um, people had been predicting the digital video games that such a would just edge out. 01:28.301 --> 01:31.903 [SPEAKER_01]: all of the tabletop markets, tabletop games, modeling, miniatures, all that kind of stuff. 01:31.943 --> 01:33.284 [SPEAKER_01]: We can do it better on our computer. 01:34.044 --> 01:53.113 [SPEAKER_01]: But the fact is that there's something intensely satisfying about doing it yourself and doing it physically with your own fingers, whether it's glowing things together or paint in the more pushing around a tabletop, there's a physicality to it that I think really appeals to us on a fundamental level on that doesn't seem to have gone away. 01:53.133 --> 01:54.574 [SPEAKER_01]: If anything, it's kind of intensified as 01:57.715 --> 02:03.317 [SPEAKER_01]: and more literally, you know, I can have armism paint them digitally in minutes. 02:03.738 --> 02:05.458 [SPEAKER_01]: Why would I bother sticking them together? 02:07.239 --> 02:08.519 [SPEAKER_01]: Because it's not really about that. 02:08.539 --> 02:25.966 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not just about having them it's also the journey to getting them and anybody who's like built an army or even a single miniature knows that there's a person sort of level of personal investment that you put into it in the act of putting it together, painting it, imagining it to be yours and I don't think 02:27.527 --> 02:28.287 [SPEAKER_01]: That's gone away. 02:28.568 --> 02:31.389 [SPEAKER_01]: If anything, it's got stronger for us over time. 02:31.469 --> 02:33.030 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's why the hobby still exists. 02:33.910 --> 02:35.771 [SPEAKER_00]: What's your favourite book of all kind? 02:36.331 --> 02:38.612 [SPEAKER_01]: I have many favourite books as the truth. 02:39.373 --> 02:48.397 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you're thinking to like pin me down and torture me and say, name all favourite book and it would probably have to be Lord of the Rings rather boringly. 02:49.237 --> 02:56.859 [SPEAKER_01]: But it is that kind of like essential fountain head of fancy fiction. 02:57.099 --> 02:59.279 [SPEAKER_01]: If you will, I mean, it's not the only by any means. 02:59.339 --> 03:02.460 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the first and it's not the last by any means either. 03:02.560 --> 03:06.581 [SPEAKER_01]: But it's such a towering and titanic thing in its own right. 03:07.081 --> 03:08.602 [SPEAKER_01]: I really have a cello again here. 03:09.002 --> 03:10.162 [SPEAKER_01]: But I go for all the rings. 03:10.342 --> 03:14.723 [SPEAKER_01]: But I really wouldn't like to say, that's my favourite book. 03:21.002 --> 03:25.326 [SPEAKER_00]: Just a bonus question, what age were you in your foster era, that book or those books? 03:28.129 --> 03:31.853 [SPEAKER_01]: For the rings we were on holiday in Wales, I think I was. 03:34.356 --> 03:36.058 [SPEAKER_01]: No older, 11, I think. 03:37.945 --> 03:46.033 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so you know, reasonably advanced, and I couldn't understand everything that's in the, um, but yeah, I was actually fascinated. 03:46.633 --> 03:51.598 [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't think I was, but read the, the first book, the fellowship of the ring, or we're away on holiday. 03:52.659 --> 03:54.201 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, and I may have been interested in the whole bit. 03:54.801 --> 04:07.966 [SPEAKER_01]: years before junior school, one of the teachers that I read as part of the Hobbit, the Riddling, specifically, and I read the whole book separately then, so I kind of had some grounding really. 04:08.966 --> 04:13.848 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, you know, that's going to shine and all that sort of thing. 04:13.968 --> 04:15.448 [SPEAKER_01]: Woo, great stuff. 04:16.569 --> 04:20.030 [SPEAKER_00]: Who or what, as your biggest inspiration and what you do? 04:20.050 --> 04:21.770 [SPEAKER_01]: I think we're going to have to say 04:25.380 --> 04:30.862 [SPEAKER_01]: having worked with him a bit more again recently for the first time in like 20 years. 04:32.162 --> 04:48.348 [SPEAKER_01]: And honestly, the sensation of familiarity, of being in the young, locking together in the world of games design, he's always really inspired me by his approach to games design, his thoughtfulness and openness as well about it. 04:49.168 --> 05:04.345 [SPEAKER_01]: So I've always kind of aspired to that as an inspirational sort of like he is the one to follow And that'll really embarrass me saying my saying that we should get him on there actually yeah, I'd love that Did the ever beat you in a game ever 05:04.823 --> 05:20.713 [SPEAKER_01]: many times, many times we talked about this because it kind of bothered him after a while that it never even crossed my mind because we used to play a lot virtually daily when we could but not always, but certainly weekly. 05:22.531 --> 05:27.215 [SPEAKER_01]: And we did the first few battle reports, and it kind of became a thing that we're very, very popular. 05:28.036 --> 05:31.660 [SPEAKER_01]: This is in white dwarf magazines for people just tuning in. 05:31.760 --> 05:33.481 [SPEAKER_01]: They were very popular, so it was like brilliant. 05:33.541 --> 05:41.669 [SPEAKER_01]: Do more of those people love them when they're like, all right, so we stopped, started regularly doing a battle report for white dwarf in once a month. 05:42.409 --> 05:47.834 [SPEAKER_01]: And it never even crossed my mind, because I say we played a lot, and Jeff's generally beat me. 05:48.615 --> 05:59.970 [SPEAKER_01]: not always but quite often he always came with a good army list of a good plan in mind and army I never had a plan I just had an army in that chaos rain and work from there basically. 06:01.387 --> 06:08.133 [SPEAKER_01]: But after a while, he came to me and said, oh, you know, it bothered me for a while that you always beat me in the back of reports, but I'm over it now. 06:08.153 --> 06:12.796 [SPEAKER_01]: And it never even crossed my mind before that moment, frankly, that that was happening. 06:12.816 --> 06:17.720 [SPEAKER_01]: And I was like, huh, and it made me think about it why that happened. 06:17.740 --> 06:22.604 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's because the battle reports were always really chaotic affairs, because we have to stop and start. 06:22.624 --> 06:24.466 [SPEAKER_01]: Let's take photos, get to take notes. 06:24.946 --> 06:32.208 [SPEAKER_01]: People have won the buy all the time and give their sage advice to what should be doing in the game and all that stuff And then we break for lunch and we come back and finish. 06:32.888 --> 06:49.153 [SPEAKER_01]: So it was a hugely factured game that we had to play in practice And of course that worked for me because I thrive on chaos basically and I didn't really have a plan in the first place I'm just at what taking advantage what's happening and doing sensible things 06:50.233 --> 07:01.847 [SPEAKER_01]: where as Jefe took came in with a plan and the plan kind of always fell apart because he couldn't keep concentration on that as well as keep notes and we'll take photos and all the and all the other interruptions and stuff like that. 07:02.487 --> 07:06.892 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's what screwed him over more than anything as well as just a look as well. 07:07.013 --> 07:08.434 [SPEAKER_01]: I tend to be quite lucky on the dice. 07:09.435 --> 07:21.084 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, so we ended up with this thing where it's like, you know, people with T-shirts on saying Travis Johnson couldn't beat me either and stuff like this, which is, they'll very hilarious but a bit harsh on him because honestly, no, he's a great player. 07:21.104 --> 07:22.365 [SPEAKER_01]: He beat me all the time. 07:23.466 --> 07:29.831 [SPEAKER_01]: Just not in a battle report because extraneous circumstances meant that I was better at doing those than he was. 07:31.453 --> 07:39.285 [SPEAKER_01]: But not through talent or anything like that, just to say, I thrive on Chaos, and that's true when I game in general, I generally have a plan. 07:40.026 --> 07:43.632 [SPEAKER_00]: What should best value budget hobby purchase of less than £20? 07:44.687 --> 08:04.273 [SPEAKER_01]: Paints and brushes is what I'd invest 20 pounds in which I'm going all for a long way these days, but honestly, good paint and a good brush are 78% of painting them in that you're well in my opinion, with some of the remainder of good on the coat actually as well. 08:05.714 --> 08:10.979 [SPEAKER_01]: And if you haven't got good ones of those, it does make your life so much harder and it's so much more of a disappointing experience. 08:11.999 --> 08:21.328 [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel there are the things that give back the most in terms of investing and putting money into it rather than any, you know, 08:22.168 --> 08:24.949 [SPEAKER_01]: Magnify or or some special bit. 08:24.969 --> 08:25.669 [SPEAKER_01]: I can't like that. 08:26.529 --> 08:28.109 [SPEAKER_01]: She can pick up that cheaply sometimes. 08:28.850 --> 08:30.170 [SPEAKER_01]: I can never get on with them personally. 08:30.910 --> 08:34.071 [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, put it into some decent materials. 08:34.271 --> 08:35.431 [SPEAKER_01]: Is really what it comes down to. 08:35.471 --> 08:40.792 [SPEAKER_01]: Because then they will pay off their sandwich nice to use, especially modern acrylic paints. 08:40.892 --> 08:41.832 [SPEAKER_01]: It's just amazing. 08:42.873 --> 08:43.453 [SPEAKER_01]: I start off. 08:45.213 --> 08:52.802 [SPEAKER_01]: when I was a nepper, you know, we were using humble paints, so they're like basically the oil paint, some things like the 70s white spirits with it, stuff like that. 08:53.602 --> 08:57.547 [SPEAKER_01]: So the modern sort of water-soluble paints are just stunning. 08:57.807 --> 09:03.834 [SPEAKER_01]: I haven't got into air brushing, I kind of mean to at some point, you probably need more than 20 quits for that. 09:05.195 --> 09:14.645 [SPEAKER_01]: But from what I'm seeing, other results, people are getting with the, again, with the modern Abracet, Abracet's, and most of the point, paint, you can get for them, very, very good. 09:14.985 --> 09:20.210 [SPEAKER_01]: So, but if I'm a little paintbrush, it's my, well, pay off, don't worry. 09:20.915 --> 09:25.401 [SPEAKER_00]: If you could love an any historical period, where, when, and why? 09:26.062 --> 09:26.803 [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't go far. 09:27.324 --> 09:29.186 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm the great student of history. 09:29.306 --> 09:30.848 [SPEAKER_01]: There's anybody who knows me, I'll tell you. 09:31.669 --> 09:33.912 [SPEAKER_01]: And I'm a rather great deal about history. 09:33.932 --> 09:36.696 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm mostly mostly military history, but that's social history as well. 09:38.012 --> 09:54.780 [SPEAKER_01]: And I have to say, if I was going to go back, I could go back out to the 1990s, the 1980s, perhaps, and not really any further than that, because all life was not better in those days, except for a very select few who wrote books about it, and things like that, that we get to read now. 09:55.340 --> 10:01.243 [SPEAKER_01]: But for the vast majority of people, now we leave like, gods as far as they're concerned, and I'd rather keep hold of that. 10:02.103 --> 10:05.485 [SPEAKER_01]: Then take my chances and go back in time and like are you an aristocrat? 10:05.905 --> 10:08.686 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you get to burglosis and so on? 10:09.987 --> 10:12.888 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, get a sword done that got within 24 hours. 10:12.928 --> 10:22.352 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, smallpox, you know all kinds of fun ways to meet your end And not much help to be had for them as well in comparison to the modern world. 10:22.412 --> 10:26.754 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I'm a great student of history But I'm no particular desire to live in it 10:28.034 --> 10:30.436 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you think there are any underutilized settings or periods and table-top gaming? 10:30.456 --> 10:46.089 [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah 10:46.909 --> 10:52.994 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, because people assume it's better, though, to basic, just guys, hypnotists with sticks or something like that. 10:53.015 --> 10:55.116 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's not, it's not all like that. 10:55.597 --> 10:57.298 [SPEAKER_01]: It's actually a very sophisticated period of history. 10:57.318 --> 11:00.601 [SPEAKER_01]: We just don't know an all-fought about it. 11:00.741 --> 11:07.407 [SPEAKER_01]: But I feel that doesn't see enough, um, because it's, it's proper, like, kindness, fantasy when you get down to it. 11:08.528 --> 11:16.998 [SPEAKER_01]: and that doesn't see enough leverage, I think, you know, no cradle civilization, but have been on all that sort of stuff. 11:17.338 --> 11:23.905 [SPEAKER_01]: Which are some, you know, evocative terms just throw around just to say those words, so I think that gets underutilised. 11:24.726 --> 11:27.810 [SPEAKER_00]: What might people be surprised to hear that you're not very good at? 11:28.881 --> 11:45.761 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, this is the one where I briefly looked over your list of questions only wrong actually stood out in my mind when I thought about different answers for this things I'm not very good at there's a lot of these Which may probably not surprise most people one that might surprise people I'm not good is I'm not good at chess 11:47.462 --> 11:48.503 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not going to play in chess. 11:48.843 --> 11:49.884 [SPEAKER_01]: I understand how to play. 11:50.044 --> 11:51.185 [SPEAKER_01]: I have played many times. 11:51.965 --> 11:52.966 [SPEAKER_01]: I am not good at it. 11:54.127 --> 11:59.410 [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's because of what I said earlier, I kind of thrive on chaos when I'm gaming. 11:59.771 --> 12:01.832 [SPEAKER_01]: And there isn't any of that in chess at all. 12:02.973 --> 12:06.475 [SPEAKER_01]: And I like the patience to be able to develop a plan over a period of time. 12:06.495 --> 12:11.359 [SPEAKER_01]: I've had a few rounds ago as well, which is getting a fascinating concept to the game. 12:11.419 --> 12:12.720 [SPEAKER_01]: But kind of not for me. 12:13.640 --> 12:16.444 [SPEAKER_01]: Is what it boils down to and I accept that. 12:17.385 --> 12:31.523 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't thrive on long-term building towards a plan in that way In my gaming, but that's okay As I've come to realize there are many different kinds of gamers there are many different kinds of games And it's probably the ones that suit you really 12:32.283 --> 12:35.305 [SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's my first one, um, things I'm not good at. 12:35.765 --> 12:39.046 [SPEAKER_01]: The other one I would actually list is that I can't run to save my life. 12:39.307 --> 12:41.808 [SPEAKER_01]: Despite the fitness thing that we talked about briefly here, I don't know. 12:41.828 --> 12:43.008 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm decent, you fit. 12:43.709 --> 12:47.711 [SPEAKER_01]: But I've always had asthma, and I've also got a deflector from those sort of clients who don't. 12:48.151 --> 12:48.691 [SPEAKER_01]: And I smoke. 12:48.991 --> 12:51.432 [SPEAKER_01]: So if the zombies come for me, they're going to get me. 12:51.633 --> 12:53.413 [SPEAKER_01]: I won't get 100 yards, basically. 12:54.374 --> 12:56.295 [SPEAKER_01]: So they were the two things that came to mind about things. 12:56.355 --> 12:58.036 [SPEAKER_01]: I am not good at it. 13:01.549 --> 13:07.598 [SPEAKER_01]: the success of the Masters of the Universe board miniatures game that are combed it. 13:08.640 --> 13:11.244 [SPEAKER_01]: That's apparently as landed really really well. 13:11.825 --> 13:15.751 [SPEAKER_01]: And I guess I don't know why I imagine Master Universe wouldn't cut the muscles in some fashion. 13:18.295 --> 13:40.966 [SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the things that's remarkable actually that surprised me in general if I'm honest but over a period of decades is how fast and furious games come out now compared to when I started out because it was a long tedious process to make games back then and it's become, you know, this is not that great what's being made now because it's marvelous content that's just so much more of it. 13:42.046 --> 13:49.691 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's because digital publishing and print and particular now digital miniatur making has really accelerated the process. 13:49.791 --> 13:54.313 [SPEAKER_01]: Just massively, you can't imagine how fast it is compared to what I know. 13:54.994 --> 13:57.635 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't worry, Grog and I've time like me is used to. 13:58.516 --> 14:00.837 [SPEAKER_01]: So that, I think, is hard. 14:01.177 --> 14:05.560 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, if I trace back from, well, must the universe tell us, okay, but it's like, it's because of that. 14:06.120 --> 14:09.742 [SPEAKER_01]: And now, can reach the point where we do a must the universe tell us, okay? 14:11.103 --> 14:32.993 [SPEAKER_01]: or G-I-J-O, or whatever, just for funsies basically, because it's possible, it doesn't have to be this massive industrial investment process to get to that point between kickstarter and the aforementioned capabilities, small studios can do just about anything, so, on some levels, the games that come out all the time kind of surprisingly, because it's like what? 14:33.333 --> 14:36.515 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, they often do quite well, it's like, well, we'll pay our term really. 14:37.925 --> 14:41.387 [SPEAKER_00]: Tell me something that's true that almost no day agrees with you on. 14:41.987 --> 15:06.240 [SPEAKER_01]: It's think and it's hard, it'll be that desire for randomness because people often rail against randomness look, being a part of their games, where they think of it, myself as being an essential ingredient in a game, like I say, go back to things like chess and gum, kind of like, all right, it doesn't fire me in quite the same way. 15:07.601 --> 15:22.917 [SPEAKER_01]: That being said, how you handle it in your games of the key to whether it just feels like random chance or when you have some control over what's going on, and how much control and how much the fatal finger of fate can fuck you as well. 15:23.818 --> 15:36.446 [SPEAKER_01]: So, that would probably be the biggest brain of contention I can think of on a really matter level that most people might have with me and designing games the way I do, but tough, that's the way I do it. 15:37.427 --> 15:41.209 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, don't like it, go design your own games, which people do, which is fantastic. 15:43.671 --> 15:52.476 [SPEAKER_01]: It's one of the things I have to accept about myself, because I design the way I design, and some people line on, some people don't, but that's okay. 15:55.118 --> 15:59.101 [SPEAKER_00]: Tell me something you're once believed about the hobby that Thunder not to be true. 15:59.742 --> 16:20.278 [SPEAKER_01]: One thing I used to believe about the hobby that turned out not to be true, I go you go systems are good, which I don't know, on some fundamental level I need to sort of believe that but I used to passionately believe it and fight back against every attempt to do with the things. 16:21.990 --> 16:25.671 [SPEAKER_01]: because I thought it was good for you to build to use your whole army and you know, work to a plan. 16:25.831 --> 16:40.754 [SPEAKER_01]: I run clean enough, and then the opponent needs there, but actually in practice, most of the time, it's a bad idea, because it kind of dissociates one person at a time from having much of an active role in the game for too long. 16:41.974 --> 16:45.595 [SPEAKER_01]: And as of go, older and perhaps a little bit wiser, I've realized that's 16:46.815 --> 16:51.057 [SPEAKER_01]: You've got two people at the table, we need to make sure they're both having a good time, two or more people at the table. 16:51.937 --> 16:53.618 [SPEAKER_01]: That need to make sure they're both having a good time. 16:54.038 --> 16:57.759 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm a reasonable sort of tempo, and I go, you go off and fight against that. 16:57.799 --> 17:07.883 [SPEAKER_01]: Unless it's such a limited number of units that you can get through you turn very quickly, or the increments are really tiny or both. 17:08.723 --> 17:10.544 [SPEAKER_01]: So there are circumstances we still do it. 17:12.527 --> 17:13.988 [SPEAKER_01]: Am I as committed to it as I once was? 17:14.008 --> 17:15.369 [SPEAKER_01]: Anyway, I'm not. 17:16.609 --> 17:39.602 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of crunch actually to be fair that I inflicted on gamers back in the 90s when I was working on things like 40k these days, I wouldn't do that now because crunch by which I mean, you know, lots of modifiers, a lot of spiralling, comparing diarolling, having to do maths in relation to your dice. 17:40.202 --> 17:44.483 [SPEAKER_01]: And things like that, it was for the end, it didn't hesitate about back then, that's not cool. 17:45.344 --> 17:47.424 [SPEAKER_01]: Different way of doing things. 17:47.444 --> 17:49.865 [SPEAKER_01]: And in itself, there were too many different ways of doing things. 17:50.265 --> 17:53.506 [SPEAKER_01]: These are all kind of bad, actually, those part of design. 17:54.247 --> 17:54.947 [SPEAKER_01]: And you need to... 17:55.787 --> 18:11.273 [SPEAKER_01]: you'd be a lot more disciplined about it and I mean referencing back to gyms again that's one of the reasons that things I admire in four years very disciplined about factors like that and considering it properly which is something I've learned to do over time but I didn't use to sorry about that guys. 18:12.054 --> 18:13.994 [SPEAKER_01]: It was kind of a fun way to games though. 18:14.475 --> 18:15.175 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you that much. 18:16.155 --> 18:17.776 [SPEAKER_00]: Are there any common hobby methods and 18:20.692 --> 18:31.923 [SPEAKER_01]: the way people treat dice, as if they will follow probabilities when I'm going to tell you guys after three years of working with dice, they don't, you know, you can... 18:34.114 --> 18:54.307 [SPEAKER_01]: makes broader assumptions about what may be possible by doing that, but don't get too locked into the idea that the handful of dice you roll over the course of the game will somehow fit in with probability that it's worked out over thousands of instances, thousands and thousands of instances to get that sort of perfect bell curve or what have you. 18:55.007 --> 18:57.489 [SPEAKER_01]: You pick up your dice once in the game and roll them. 18:58.684 --> 19:00.867 [SPEAKER_01]: The dice don't know anything about bellcoats. 19:00.887 --> 19:03.570 [SPEAKER_01]: They'll just give you something entirely random. 19:05.573 --> 19:14.584 [SPEAKER_01]: And over time, the probabilities will tend to emerge in a general direction of the way that those probabilities would tell you. 19:15.906 --> 19:21.688 [SPEAKER_01]: but only by rolling enough dice and they don't always obey those probabilities at all. 19:22.369 --> 19:34.733 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's the thing that makes me roll my eyes the most that people make such massive assumptions about a 16% difference, for example, the classics of hitting on a 3 plus or hitting on a 4 plus and how much difference that makes. 19:35.694 --> 19:38.495 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like it makes way more difference how many dice you're rolling 19:44.368 --> 19:49.995 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, is the thing that I tend to like, because it just gets treated as such an iron cast rule. 19:50.536 --> 19:54.461 [SPEAKER_01]: And what particularly amusing though, there was a great, what was it on? 19:54.501 --> 19:59.727 [SPEAKER_01]: It was on Dacca Dacca, I think years ago now, somebody had tested different dice. 20:00.848 --> 20:13.659 [SPEAKER_01]: There, there, it was a guy who taught engineering students and basically got hold of a few thousand like games workshop, dice, casino, dice, and things like that, and he tests that, see what they're rolled. 20:14.139 --> 20:15.441 [SPEAKER_01]: That's it as a job for students. 20:16.121 --> 20:18.703 [SPEAKER_01]: There got big shaker tables and they just went through and recorded the results. 20:19.784 --> 20:30.443 [SPEAKER_01]: and he found their chances on it was specifically the standard like little white D6 that you get in game solution games coming around the world that one is that's why it's in the 20:32.047 --> 20:39.289 [SPEAKER_01]: The chances of rolling a one on that was somewhere around 23% now, technically, it should be 16. 20:40.249 --> 20:41.829 [SPEAKER_01]: So some things are missed there. 20:43.210 --> 20:52.332 [SPEAKER_01]: The best ones he found were the casino guys, ironically enough, that they were actually within the proper opposite, even they varied a bit. 20:52.832 --> 20:57.933 [SPEAKER_01]: So even that, you can take statistical probability at face value and so forth, it still 21:02.214 --> 21:15.522 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's what I think people took to blow past a little bit when they're talking about balance and you know, probability chances of things happening or not happening. 21:17.664 --> 21:26.429 [SPEAKER_01]: It's not quite in the realm of everything's just a coin flip really guys, but it's kind of headed there, more so than most people give it credit for anyway. 21:27.985 --> 21:30.427 [SPEAKER_01]: It's been one of the fun things about zero genesis, actually. 21:31.447 --> 21:32.608 [SPEAKER_01]: That uses detens. 21:33.108 --> 21:38.232 [SPEAKER_01]: Now I've had, like I say, 30-year career of designing almost exclusively with D-6. 21:38.252 --> 21:39.312 [SPEAKER_01]: It's all that time. 21:40.193 --> 21:44.856 [SPEAKER_01]: I've had a long intimate relationship with the D-6 in all kinds of different forms. 21:44.896 --> 21:49.379 [SPEAKER_01]: Moving to detens was just like madness, madness, buffering solidified. 21:49.819 --> 21:51.240 [SPEAKER_01]: We're using deten-dice pools. 21:53.642 --> 22:03.787 [SPEAKER_01]: And, I mean, D6 is like, say, they're a lot more unpredictable than you think they're, but they, they, they kind of have their parameters if you roll with them, then they'll, they'll jump with their, etc. 22:04.688 --> 22:06.529 [SPEAKER_01]: Detends is like starting over again. 22:07.529 --> 22:15.814 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's been exciting times grappling with how, truly random, rolling like four or five detends can be because we're not totalling scores. 22:15.874 --> 22:18.315 [SPEAKER_01]: It's individual target numbers in that. 22:19.035 --> 22:37.904 [SPEAKER_01]: The mod has a target number to hit it, so you're to roll that or above, so it'll be five detends to tell me how many of them are eight plus, it's like, ah, none of them, ah, all of them, ah, most of them, just, so that's been good to account for, overall, a new challenge. 22:38.544 --> 22:43.426 [SPEAKER_00]: Are there any particularly satisfying mechanics you've either created yourself or came across 22:46.458 --> 22:48.459 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to nominate myself for this one. 22:48.819 --> 22:56.721 [SPEAKER_01]: Actually, the Blast Mark of Mechanic that we introduced an epic initially, they think. 22:57.322 --> 23:07.465 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is the thing about having little explosion markets next to a unit to show, and it's another stage of damage at its heart, but it's not removing models. 23:09.249 --> 23:13.372 [SPEAKER_01]: uh, it's just showing that they're kind of like being suppressed, undefired, that sort of thing. 23:14.052 --> 23:16.934 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's been used in quite a few different game systems since then. 23:17.414 --> 23:23.177 [SPEAKER_01]: I've used it a few times myself since then and it's a good mechanic. 23:23.597 --> 23:36.265 [SPEAKER_01]: It's a useful tool to have when you're designing a game to have that other stage of damage, which isn't actually killing things or knocking off hit points per say, basically like a temporary damage source, which suppresses them or whatever. 23:37.987 --> 23:42.393 [SPEAKER_01]: So, conceptually, I think that's a good one. 23:42.533 --> 23:51.527 [SPEAKER_01]: The other one I'd nominate is the system that I use in blood red skies for doing three-dimensional combat, because that's a will to fight a combat game. 23:52.087 --> 24:09.015 [SPEAKER_01]: But it doesn't use altitude or anything like that, it uses a system, but this system is called the advantage system, where it says, we don't care about how high up you are basically it's like, are you an advantage relative to the fight or are you neutral relative to the fight or are you disadvantage relative to the fight? 24:11.216 --> 24:21.340 [SPEAKER_01]: Being advantage means that you have more options, basically being disadvantage means you have less and it's only if your disadvantage is your actually in danger of being shot down, 24:23.106 --> 24:29.828 [SPEAKER_01]: until that point, you know, you're just ducking and diving along with that be else, but in a disadvantage, say, that's where you're the most vulnerable as well. 24:30.408 --> 24:37.670 [SPEAKER_01]: So again, it's a way of almost combining damage with other factors at the same time, ball without it actually being damaged to the unit. 24:38.830 --> 24:42.791 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's another particularly kind of interesting example of all, almost the same. 24:42.951 --> 24:45.212 [SPEAKER_01]: If again, if you go on a very matter-level concept, 24:48.693 --> 24:51.015 [SPEAKER_00]: What are the last couple of games you've actually played? 24:51.575 --> 25:13.228 [SPEAKER_01]: Fliprunners, which is game I'm developing for the z-ogenesis universe, which is we start on to roll out, we will appear that a few shows and things like that, it's basically like an anime inspired mekka, based combat game, but Fliprunners is actually a spaceship game that I forced on to it because we're going to publish it through Blaster Magazine. 25:14.048 --> 25:25.623 [SPEAKER_01]: They publish periodically, um, um, that it will games, and it's literally like a space ship racing game But we've tied it into the background for you to sort of be testing that quite a lot. 25:25.643 --> 25:28.506 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the last few games have actually had of all been of that 25:30.688 --> 25:42.599 [SPEAKER_01]: And before that was the agency itself, the maker combat game, sorry, then I'll make it, then I'll that big, the giant armoured suit fighting combat game that we're doing. 25:42.819 --> 25:46.502 [SPEAKER_01]: Which is very familiar to her, it's like, you know, say two mil figures. 25:47.363 --> 25:52.568 [SPEAKER_01]: So that's kind of like you, that's the tactical, the smallest armoured suits. 25:54.689 --> 26:00.514 [SPEAKER_01]: And they go up from there basically, but we might be fighting with tactical mediums so far. 26:01.515 --> 26:08.581 [SPEAKER_01]: I'll be working on that with Gaffthorpe, who's doing the background side of things as well. 26:08.761 --> 26:14.125 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you can play a fair bit of that as well, on the telltale realm. 26:14.686 --> 26:19.289 [SPEAKER_00]: When build an arrangement, do you prefer monopause or multi pose managers? 26:21.177 --> 26:34.540 [SPEAKER_01]: It depends on the troops and it depends on the game, it's the honest truth that there's some where monoposes is absolutely right, you know, if you're doing a pint or something like that, you don't want multiple models for that. 26:36.860 --> 26:45.682 [SPEAKER_01]: But if I'm doing, you know, a wall band of some description, whatever description, whatever flow you want to call it, then yeah, I want multiple 26:51.265 --> 26:52.786 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Monopo zombies. 26:52.866 --> 26:54.927 [SPEAKER_00]: I would look about what you're doing that for the same time. 26:54.947 --> 26:55.748 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly. 26:55.868 --> 27:05.894 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you're entirely missing the point with Monopo zombies, you know, especially with plastic miniatures, which I love, part of the fun is, you know, cutting them around and making them be your own. 27:06.674 --> 27:15.119 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, but on the other hand, like so, if I'm doing, you know, a very regimented kind of a unit, then I've got no problem with them. 27:17.021 --> 27:19.142 [SPEAKER_01]: Being in a regimental poses, at all. 27:20.330 --> 27:21.050 [SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of what it is. 27:21.171 --> 27:47.466 [SPEAKER_01]: As a rule of preferred multi-part, it's actually, I mean, I was talking about it as the area, so that's one of the things for it is that we're doing injection on plastic and trying to make them a bit more, you know, flexible, poseable, tujarone weapons, tujarone bits to go on them for part of that fun modeling aspect of it, because it's kind of sort of to vanish a little bit and I'm sad about that. 27:48.286 --> 27:51.807 [SPEAKER_01]: Because for me, that's for a much part of the hobby, it's like making things your own. 27:53.087 --> 27:57.129 [SPEAKER_01]: So, it's good to be in a position to hopefully give some about back again. 27:57.789 --> 28:00.650 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you prefer metal, resin, or plastic? 28:01.170 --> 28:02.650 [SPEAKER_01]: I pick plastic every time. 28:03.330 --> 28:09.632 [SPEAKER_01]: If I have all my needs supplied in plastic, I'll take it in plastic, things because it's the easiest to work with all three of those. 28:11.393 --> 28:15.254 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't have anything against metal ministers, I don't have anything against resin ministers either. 28:16.254 --> 28:21.776 [SPEAKER_01]: But if I have the option, then yeah, because passing is just hilarious. 28:21.796 --> 28:25.157 [SPEAKER_01]: So you see, he's a cut-up and stick back together in different forms and stuff like that. 28:25.197 --> 28:33.460 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I used to do it with metal, because as far as I was able to turn it again, because I'm an ancient super blues being quite the wonder for me in hot blue guns. 28:33.720 --> 28:35.701 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm just like, ah, he can't stop me now. 28:38.862 --> 28:42.803 [SPEAKER_01]: But if he's in class that you, you're going away from the 90% of that issue, 28:47.047 --> 28:54.539 [SPEAKER_01]: So we easily put things together, so we usually shave off any bits of flash that you don't want on all the rest of it, but it's also a struggle to work with. 28:55.441 --> 28:59.047 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you prefer a black, white, or zenithal undercool? 29:00.615 --> 29:02.295 [SPEAKER_01]: It depends on what's going to go on to it next. 29:04.596 --> 29:06.456 [SPEAKER_01]: If it's bright colors, I always use white. 29:07.357 --> 29:10.797 [SPEAKER_01]: If it's dark colors, I'm fine using black. 29:10.837 --> 29:12.698 [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I used these black undercoat forever. 29:13.538 --> 29:14.918 [SPEAKER_01]: It was always what I used to use. 29:15.479 --> 29:20.380 [SPEAKER_01]: And then just kind of work up from there, because I say, I came from a background where originally I was painting it on bronze. 29:20.500 --> 29:24.061 [SPEAKER_01]: So black undercoat wasn't such an issue there. 29:24.081 --> 29:26.061 [SPEAKER_01]: It is more of an issue for acrylic paints though. 29:26.641 --> 29:29.762 [SPEAKER_01]: So what have actually landed up is I tend to use gray quite a lot now. 29:31.502 --> 29:35.424 [SPEAKER_01]: because that's a middle ground between the two, you know, you can dock it down easily enough. 29:37.684 --> 29:43.466 [SPEAKER_01]: Or bring it up easily enough without having to go through quite as many layers as using a black undercoat. 29:43.546 --> 29:46.467 [SPEAKER_01]: So I feel like that's a fairly happy compromise. 29:47.387 --> 29:55.090 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have a typical basin strategy, do you like the golf course, or do you like them if you busy with rocks and skulls? 29:56.542 --> 30:04.646 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, somewhere between the two, I do believe that a base can be too busy and then it starts to distract from the miniature that's standing on it. 30:04.806 --> 30:07.447 [SPEAKER_01]: So to me, you know, the miniature is the star, not the base. 30:08.527 --> 30:13.250 [SPEAKER_01]: So I don't like overly complicated bases. 30:14.390 --> 30:18.072 [SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people have ones that will let metal grids and things like that. 30:18.092 --> 30:19.392 [SPEAKER_01]: I don't tend to like things like that. 30:20.493 --> 30:22.254 [SPEAKER_01]: Unless it's specifically for an environment 30:25.655 --> 30:36.365 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I'm not fond of guys who look like they're looking around a load of stuff on their base onto the battlefield, they should Disappear as much as possible as far as I'm concerned. 30:37.046 --> 30:40.009 [SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any advice for those who want to follow your path? 30:40.709 --> 30:43.171 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I get this reasonably often, actually. 30:43.632 --> 30:44.653 [SPEAKER_01]: The biggest thing is do it. 30:46.343 --> 30:47.424 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't be too hesitant. 30:47.544 --> 30:50.887 [SPEAKER_01]: There is just a monster mash of opportunity out there now. 30:51.828 --> 30:56.452 [SPEAKER_01]: In some ways, it's a lot easier and it's a lot harder than when I start out. 30:57.153 --> 31:04.660 [SPEAKER_01]: Because when I start out, there were very, very, very, very few companies making games and they were all companies. 31:04.680 --> 31:08.003 [SPEAKER_01]: So getting a foot in the door there and working way up and all that. 31:08.564 --> 31:10.045 [SPEAKER_01]: As I did, that's 31:12.440 --> 31:29.799 [SPEAKER_01]: I say both harder and easier to do now because there are more companies doing that, but at the same time there's more people where and more people interested that there's a whole generation basically that's been fired up by the idea of doing games and gaming and there's much better tools for doing it with the one I started out. 31:30.320 --> 31:32.823 [SPEAKER_01]: But that being said, you have much better tools for doing it with. 31:33.603 --> 31:41.791 [SPEAKER_01]: So write your rules, stick them on a PDF, put them in, put them out on the internet, you know, find supportive groups, whether interested in similar things. 31:42.492 --> 31:50.800 [SPEAKER_01]: Social media has given this amazing, amazing capability of linking people across the world, in a way that we can even dream of by then. 31:50.900 --> 31:52.201 [SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, leverage that. 31:53.302 --> 32:01.869 [SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, if you make it, they will come over time and either someone will pop up and say, hey, I can make minutes as you want me to make minutes if you're going to try and lose. 32:02.290 --> 32:03.971 [SPEAKER_01]: And you can start a couple minutes together that way. 32:04.792 --> 32:08.895 [SPEAKER_01]: Or you can take it to a company and say, look, I've done these things already. 32:09.916 --> 32:10.516 [SPEAKER_01]: Give me a go. 32:10.736 --> 32:12.458 [SPEAKER_01]: I can work with you guys, et cetera. 32:12.778 --> 32:16.922 [SPEAKER_01]: So I think the option is out there, but the biggest thing's got to be to do it. 32:17.383 --> 32:19.265 [SPEAKER_01]: Don't don't think about doing it, but do it. 32:20.426 --> 32:22.568 [SPEAKER_01]: That can be tougher than it sounds. 32:22.728 --> 32:23.489 [SPEAKER_01]: I understand that. 32:24.071 --> 32:39.175 [SPEAKER_00]: Big thanks to Andy for taking the time a chat with me way back in 2023 and if you're listening to this around the time of release you probably have a few more days to get your clipping for the hobby progress update that we're going to do. 32:39.795 --> 33:02.842 [SPEAKER_00]: for May 2026 so you can submit a clip by going to BedroomBattlefields.com forward slash voice mail, get them in before the end of the month and make sure your own hobby progress and accountability stuff gets in that episode and all your peers out there know that you've been doing stuff so that link again is BedroomBattlefields.com forward slash voice mail. 33:04.042 --> 33:10.613 [SPEAKER_00]: Right, thanks as always for less than I always appreciate your ears and I look forward to speaking again on the next one.