WEBVTT 00:01.050 --> 00:06.843 [SPEAKER_02]: Hi, I'm Professor Beckstrott, and I'm Professor Erick Bronson, and this is Prison New. 00:20.272 --> 00:37.071 [SPEAKER_00]: It's because it's time to get up off your chair and give the news without a case It's the news, wash away your news Because it's the prison news 00:49.697 --> 01:14.902 [SPEAKER_01]: The whole news, the whole one on my friends, my compatriots, comrades, colleagues, friends, fools, fools, I love this, let's bring the fools out, love it, we should, we should start that, we should, hey, what's up my fools, yeah, I guess I guess like, you know, certain population uses food quite a bit. 01:15.702 --> 01:16.363 [SPEAKER_01]: I like food. 01:16.603 --> 01:17.924 [SPEAKER_01]: I wish I could do the food fighters. 01:18.344 --> 01:19.225 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, the food fighters. 01:19.265 --> 01:20.185 [SPEAKER_01]: That's the population. 01:20.205 --> 01:21.966 [SPEAKER_03]: They call each other's food foods. 01:22.227 --> 01:22.527 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 01:23.207 --> 01:23.768 [SPEAKER_01]: Hello, David. 01:23.788 --> 01:27.310 [SPEAKER_01]: David, David, David, David, David, David food from the food fighters. 01:28.971 --> 01:31.733 [SPEAKER_02]: Or the people under the stairs where they're tongues cut off. 01:32.073 --> 01:32.514 [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh. 01:33.174 --> 01:34.275 [SPEAKER_02]: Right, right. 01:34.335 --> 01:35.616 [SPEAKER_02]: Do you ever watch that movie? 01:35.736 --> 01:36.617 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's a great movie. 01:36.637 --> 01:38.378 [SPEAKER_02]: And then watch that movie, you're done, right? 01:39.164 --> 01:41.085 [SPEAKER_01]: You didn't want to move me pretty people under the stairs? 01:41.505 --> 01:42.065 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, it's great. 01:42.285 --> 01:42.585 [SPEAKER_01]: Great. 01:43.385 --> 01:59.050 [SPEAKER_01]: No, no, I, I, of course, watched it in the most recent, or second most recent season of on cinema at the cinema, they rent that house from people under the stairs because they couldn't get a lease on the house from father of the bride and they filmed me. 01:59.830 --> 02:00.370 [SPEAKER_01]: They filmed me. 02:00.750 --> 02:01.511 [SPEAKER_01]: They filmed really. 02:01.691 --> 02:05.892 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, they filmed the entire season in the house from people under the stairs, it's very funny. 02:06.913 --> 02:07.653 [SPEAKER_01]: That is pretty cool. 02:07.693 --> 02:07.934 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 02:07.994 --> 02:10.096 [SPEAKER_01]: On cinema at the cinema, highly recommended. 02:10.377 --> 02:11.798 [SPEAKER_01]: Very, very funny show. 02:13.140 --> 02:14.161 [SPEAKER_02]: Put it on your watch list. 02:14.241 --> 02:14.582 [SPEAKER_02]: Listen up. 02:16.023 --> 02:16.404 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 02:16.824 --> 02:22.551 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, because there's a character named fool and the person on their stairs has their tongue cut off, right? 02:22.591 --> 02:24.554 [SPEAKER_01]: So they say, fool, fool, fool. 02:25.426 --> 02:27.348 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's going to make it as like a little fraction of grading though. 02:27.508 --> 02:33.114 [SPEAKER_03]: It is, uh, I'm affectionately referring to my friends here's fools and, um, Yes, what's up to take it. 02:33.715 --> 02:33.955 [SPEAKER_01]: Wow. 02:34.556 --> 02:35.437 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, welcome fools. 02:35.717 --> 02:35.957 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 02:35.977 --> 02:36.638 [SPEAKER_01]: This is the news. 02:38.100 --> 02:39.061 [SPEAKER_03]: Welcome. 02:39.081 --> 02:40.823 [SPEAKER_03]: Our aim is to make you less foolish. 02:41.323 --> 02:41.563 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 02:41.583 --> 02:41.744 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 02:42.084 --> 02:42.404 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 02:43.105 --> 02:44.727 [SPEAKER_01]: That's an educational podcast. 02:46.363 --> 02:51.226 [SPEAKER_03]: Now let me come at you hot with some news straight out of Louisiana. 02:52.066 --> 02:56.448 [SPEAKER_03]: Eric dragged this back here with him like a like an old curse like an old mummies curse. 02:57.229 --> 02:57.909 [SPEAKER_03]: From the to yes. 02:58.509 --> 02:59.030 [SPEAKER_03]: Constantly. 02:59.290 --> 02:59.950 [SPEAKER_03]: Constantly. 03:00.530 --> 03:05.113 [SPEAKER_03]: This article comes to us from Richard Webster and Charles Maldonato at Pro Publica Inverte News. 03:06.540 --> 03:08.503 [SPEAKER_03]: And I'll start's out with an April. 03:08.963 --> 03:17.295 [SPEAKER_03]: We had this mass shooting at the Malif Louisiana and Governor Jeff Landry and stepped in and started shooting on what he calls hugethug policies. 03:17.796 --> 03:19.498 [SPEAKER_03]: Now what does that turn mean to you, hugethug? 03:22.152 --> 03:28.718 [SPEAKER_02]: that would be if we were coddling people, which I think is ironic coming out of Louisiana, right? 03:29.759 --> 03:30.180 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah. 03:30.540 --> 03:30.900 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah. 03:32.122 --> 03:39.789 [SPEAKER_03]: So he's referring, Governor Jeff Landry is referring to some reforms to the prison system put into place before he got into office. 03:40.129 --> 03:46.235 [SPEAKER_03]: And these reforms were put, they were enacted by former Democratic Democratic Governor John Bell Edwards in 2017. 03:47.916 --> 04:01.599 [SPEAKER_03]: the whole idea was he's trying to save the state money by reducing incarceration and investing in victim services trying to hold Louisiana out of this dangerous tail spin that made them into the U.S. state that has the highest incarceration rates as we know from the podcast. 04:03.321 --> 04:07.882 [SPEAKER_03]: But Jeff Landry doesn't like this, and he's just demanding harsher penalties for violent minors. 04:07.982 --> 04:10.022 [SPEAKER_03]: He said, quote, I'm done with them. 04:10.202 --> 04:11.562 [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't matter how old they are. 04:12.122 --> 04:14.023 [SPEAKER_03]: We've got 18,000 acres that in Gola. 04:14.163 --> 04:17.583 [SPEAKER_03]: If it was up to me, I would send them all there for the rest of their lives. 04:20.204 --> 04:20.524 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. 04:20.604 --> 04:21.524 [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, breathe that in. 04:21.664 --> 04:23.364 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like some female smoke. 04:23.904 --> 04:24.665 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 04:24.725 --> 04:26.305 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, let's put everybody there. 04:27.105 --> 04:29.125 [SPEAKER_02]: It's the solution to all of our problems. 04:33.848 --> 04:54.380 [SPEAKER_03]: This follows a record of landry being tough on crime since his inauguration in 2024 and he's put a handful of tough on crime bills into place and I'm going to go over some of these he has given the public access to juvenile court records that were previously confidential to protect the identities of minors no more he says so you can see who juveniles are identity is not protected. 04:55.875 --> 04:59.878 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I believe there are some court cases that would contradict him. 05:01.139 --> 05:04.342 [SPEAKER_03]: I hope so, but they've not rolled those out yet. 05:04.923 --> 05:07.505 [SPEAKER_03]: And Louisiana now has a truth and sentencing lot. 05:07.525 --> 05:12.689 [SPEAKER_03]: They put into effect requiring prisoners to serve at least 85% of their sentences before they can get released for good behavior. 05:14.745 --> 05:28.674 [SPEAKER_03]: They now treat 17 year olds as adults in the criminal justice system, the philosophy was if we remove juveniles from the juvenile justice system at age 17, they won't have an impact on the other youth in the system. 05:29.194 --> 05:37.219 [SPEAKER_03]: And it sends a message to adults who recruit teens to commit crime on their behalf, which is such a convoluted way of, I'm just saying I want to be tougher on crime. 05:38.540 --> 05:38.760 [SPEAKER_03]: Okay. 05:40.598 --> 05:41.920 [SPEAKER_03]: he's also made it more difficult for people. 05:41.940 --> 05:42.801 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's good. 05:43.321 --> 05:45.583 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that plays well in politics, right? 05:45.603 --> 05:48.587 [SPEAKER_02]: Being able to, hey, look how tough I am on crime. 05:48.607 --> 05:56.475 [SPEAKER_02]: Look at how tough I'm being on these criminals and, you know, it's an easy win for anybody who's a politician. 05:57.368 --> 06:22.136 [SPEAKER_03]: I remember hearing rhetoric when I was working on my PhD several times hearing nobody ever lost an election by being tough on crime and that's the problem is it's all posturing it's not necessarily good for your state as I'll get into but it's it's sending this we have no tolerance for crime rhetoric and it doesn't necessarily lower crime rates it doesn't help anyone really. 06:24.805 --> 06:26.827 [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't look out for the welfare of people. 06:27.447 --> 06:31.731 [SPEAKER_03]: It's looking out for like what if we lock up the bad man and throw away the key and that's right. 06:31.851 --> 06:34.494 [SPEAKER_03]: That's not the solution to cry. 06:35.514 --> 06:41.720 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and I think that that goes along with what part the way we punish people in the United States. 06:42.741 --> 06:49.967 [SPEAKER_02]: We put our prisons and areas with low populations or low socioeconomic status. 06:51.413 --> 07:09.540 [SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's not a lot of attention drawn to him and we put them people behind walls and we don't get to see the public doesn't get to see what the hell goes on behind those bars and you know that's the way they want it because if you know you think about it if the public actually knew some people might actually care. 07:10.933 --> 07:17.637 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, it is instead this psychological torture, since they cannot inflict the physical punishment on people anymore. 07:17.677 --> 07:38.848 [SPEAKER_01]: That reminds me of the episode we did on the Alabama solution from last year, the documentary, like how it exposed like systemic injustices within the prison because guys could get cell phones in there, you know, and record what was happening. 07:39.609 --> 07:53.805 [SPEAKER_01]: and like record their thoughts and yeah it's um they they do try to hide conditions in all prisons from the public which I think is not a good thing not really not not a good thing 07:54.814 --> 08:14.391 [SPEAKER_03]: No, but I guess the alternative is like in the in the 1800s they had prison set up where you could watch people working and it was like a human zoo where people would pay a quarter and then you get to walk through the presidency people not not so much a tour but like tourism around prisons and maybe that's not good either. 08:14.411 --> 08:14.891 [SPEAKER_03]: So with like 08:16.032 --> 08:18.814 [SPEAKER_03]: What's the we need some kind of public watchdog or something? 08:19.254 --> 08:19.514 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 08:19.734 --> 08:19.975 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 08:20.295 --> 08:21.516 [SPEAKER_03]: What's what is the solution? 08:21.536 --> 08:25.738 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't have it off the don't Don't know. 08:25.918 --> 08:35.425 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and what course that that also bring you know, or we do in the same thing when we take our students down to the wildest show in the south and pay money to watch inmates 08:36.165 --> 08:49.432 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, and that was a question a couple students brought up was like, you know, this is obviously like exploitation and like a couple of students didn't feel good about it at all. 08:50.933 --> 08:58.757 [SPEAKER_01]: I agree with them, but like it's an interesting lesson and it's like formative and I don't know, it's 08:59.898 --> 09:22.530 [SPEAKER_01]: it's I think a great field trip to like really open someone's eyes to what's happening in because it's like the closest you can get publicly really to like besides like a prison tour which is very very curated and they're only going to take you places they want to show you for him and you're going to talk to the inmates they they they've hand selected 09:22.690 --> 09:44.787 [SPEAKER_01]: right whereas like the prison rodeo like you know I guess there's probably inmates they don't let in there in the first place but it's uh I think you get a you know you're able to freely talk with a lot more prisoners from a different different walks of life than on a regular prison tour especially with like the fenders and stuff like that yeah correct yep you get to see much more of them 09:46.629 --> 09:55.376 [SPEAKER_03]: So let's return to some of Governor Jeff Landry's policies and he's made it more difficult for people to earn good time if they killed a police officer first responder. 09:55.877 --> 10:00.841 [SPEAKER_03]: He has found more ways to execute people in death row and he has made it. 10:00.861 --> 10:06.485 [SPEAKER_03]: So juvenile is convicted of certain crimes are not allowed to have their sentences modified by being of juvenile status. 10:07.326 --> 10:08.446 [SPEAKER_03]: And he's also made it. 10:08.566 --> 10:14.588 [SPEAKER_03]: So 60 different crimes are now not eligible for probation or suspended sentences. 10:15.008 --> 10:18.489 [SPEAKER_03]: 60 different crimes, yeah, 60 different crimes. 10:18.669 --> 10:22.770 [SPEAKER_03]: And his tactics of tough on crime laws, it changed sentencing laws. 10:23.650 --> 10:30.151 [SPEAKER_03]: There was a lot of pushback from really civil rights groups and scholars saying, like, no, no, no, this is going to blow up the prison population and cost the state a shitload of money. 10:31.052 --> 10:33.172 [SPEAKER_03]: And in a spokesman for the governor said, 10:38.295 --> 10:39.157 [SPEAKER_03]: You were going to say something. 10:39.217 --> 10:39.537 [SPEAKER_03]: Go ahead. 10:39.758 --> 10:44.125 [SPEAKER_02]: I was going to say it sounds like we're heading back towards the coat of homerabe. 10:44.466 --> 10:48.213 [SPEAKER_02]: We got, you know, hundreds of crimes you can be put to death for. 10:49.626 --> 11:05.433 [SPEAKER_03]: It's real old school punishment that he's invested and he currently wants to add 688 beds to Louisiana State Potentially and Gold of Facility, wants to hire 150 corrections officers there and spend more money on medical costs for prisoners. 11:05.853 --> 11:12.897 [SPEAKER_03]: And I should also add the caveat, he's eliminated medical parole that would let very sick people out for the end of their lives. 11:13.257 --> 11:14.457 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, why? 11:14.697 --> 11:15.778 [SPEAKER_01]: That's just cruel. 11:16.838 --> 11:17.839 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, yeah, it gets better. 11:18.059 --> 11:20.260 [SPEAKER_03]: He's facing a prison population that's only getting older. 11:20.440 --> 11:31.485 [SPEAKER_03]: So the population of prisoners over 70 has increased 28% since he came into office in 2024, while the overall prison population only increased by 8%. 11:33.086 --> 11:39.129 [SPEAKER_03]: So we have inmates who are just getting older and with getting older, you have more health problems. 11:39.149 --> 11:41.970 [SPEAKER_03]: So he's ballooning his own budget for this. 11:46.515 --> 11:50.558 [SPEAKER_03]: almost $800 million, which is $82 million higher than the previous budget past. 11:50.878 --> 11:58.624 [SPEAKER_03]: And this $800 million budget just for corrections is expected to pass the Republican lead legislature by June 1st. 12:00.705 --> 12:02.127 [SPEAKER_03]: So we have all these policies. 12:03.019 --> 12:08.121 [SPEAKER_03]: And pro-publica does this deep dive looking into how his policies impacted the criminal justice system. 12:08.861 --> 12:09.962 [SPEAKER_03]: We know there's a higher cost. 12:10.502 --> 12:20.646 [SPEAKER_03]: But we also see that the number of inmates parole has hit its lowest point in 20 years in part because he pushed a law giving the power of the parole board over to an algorithm from a risk assessment tool. 12:21.846 --> 12:26.188 [SPEAKER_03]: And the problem is, this risk assessment tool, it doesn't take in prison behavior to account. 12:26.208 --> 12:32.411 [SPEAKER_03]: So however I act while I'm incarcerated, doesn't matter for in terms of like my risk level for release. 12:33.212 --> 12:36.654 [SPEAKER_03]: So if I'm an image trying to rehabilitate myself, doesn't matter for parole. 12:37.234 --> 12:40.295 [SPEAKER_03]: And this algorithm, it's called Tiger. 12:41.196 --> 12:45.058 [SPEAKER_03]: It's an acronym for targeted interventions degrader enhanced reentry. 12:45.158 --> 12:49.120 [SPEAKER_03]: It's only inmate to are found to be low risk that qualify for parole. 12:49.860 --> 12:50.160 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow. 12:50.940 --> 12:57.942 [SPEAKER_03]: And Landry, Governor Landry commented on this, and he's like, now, early release is a slap in the face to crime victims. 12:58.562 --> 13:00.723 [SPEAKER_03]: But the problem is it's not. 13:00.863 --> 13:03.524 [SPEAKER_03]: It's a release valve for the prison system that they need. 13:04.044 --> 13:11.526 [SPEAKER_03]: It's assumed when a judge hands down a sentence that the potential for parole is part of this calculus. 13:12.126 --> 13:17.548 [SPEAKER_03]: And the data shows that Louisiana's recidivism rates were declining before Landry came in office. 13:20.029 --> 13:22.370 [SPEAKER_03]: It's something is working in the right direction. 13:23.230 --> 13:27.773 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and it's also, you know, the proper ways to go about reintroducing inmates to society. 13:28.033 --> 13:34.077 [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're helping to prepare them to, you know, get back to the real world in some way. 13:34.097 --> 13:46.344 [SPEAKER_02]: And we're not talking about, you know, because they clearly aren't, you know, dealing with the murderers, you know, so we're talking about a lot of these lower-level offenders that he's getting upset about here. 13:48.502 --> 13:48.702 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 13:49.003 --> 13:49.303 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 13:50.004 --> 13:54.708 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's just people staying in prison for longer is what he wants. 13:56.130 --> 14:05.799 [SPEAKER_03]: It's interesting, this tool that they're using, Tiger, the algorithm, it was developed like 10 years ago by the Louisiana Department of Corrections working with Louisiana State University researchers. 14:06.540 --> 14:07.861 [SPEAKER_03]: as a tool for rehabilitation. 14:08.221 --> 14:13.985 [SPEAKER_03]: It was supposed to help the classification staff figure out, okay, you need this kind of class, you need this kind of counseling. 14:14.986 --> 14:19.909 [SPEAKER_03]: Let's target the people who are at greatest risk of reoffending and help them into like job trading therapy stuff like that. 14:20.329 --> 14:25.373 [SPEAKER_03]: But it's being used now as a punitive tool and a problem is it's really not that accurate. 14:25.473 --> 14:30.957 [SPEAKER_03]: Apparently it can predict on a group level, on a group level, the 40 out of 100 people will reoffend on 14:37.482 --> 14:40.846 [SPEAKER_03]: And so it's like, what is the point of using this? 14:41.667 --> 14:41.947 [SPEAKER_02]: Right. 14:43.649 --> 14:48.814 [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's just, you know, it's science. 14:50.476 --> 14:56.162 [SPEAKER_02]: Ending up in the hands of the wrong folks and being used as a weapon rather than as a tool to assist. 14:56.502 --> 14:58.484 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, a weaponized academia. 14:58.884 --> 14:59.145 [SPEAKER_01]: That's... 15:02.358 --> 15:04.160 [SPEAKER_03]: What if we used it as a weapon for good? 15:05.501 --> 15:07.583 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what it was designed as. 15:10.146 --> 15:20.536 [SPEAKER_01]: I think that's what they were told it was going to be and so like academics are like at the University of Louisiana or whatever they were like, oh yeah, I'd love to do that project. 15:21.036 --> 15:23.018 [SPEAKER_01]: Whereas if they told them like, hey, we got it. 15:23.278 --> 15:25.543 [SPEAKER_01]: We've got to make a punitive tool to punish people. 15:26.124 --> 15:28.589 [SPEAKER_01]: I think you've ever said you would be like, ow! 15:29.551 --> 15:30.473 [SPEAKER_00]: Great, great. 15:31.134 --> 15:32.537 [SPEAKER_00]: Probably probably not, no. 15:33.633 --> 15:37.817 [SPEAKER_03]: No, no, it's like the stories where we have to go to Palantir and go there. 15:37.837 --> 15:45.223 [SPEAKER_03]: Years ago, how inmates were asked to help build the bed for lethal injection. 15:45.483 --> 15:47.165 [SPEAKER_01]: And they were like, oh, we're not doing that. 15:47.725 --> 15:50.948 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's some digger-owned grave crap right there. 15:51.048 --> 15:52.369 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, exactly. 15:52.389 --> 15:55.152 [SPEAKER_01]: It's gross, wild. 15:56.133 --> 16:05.199 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, I have more fun to add, and the Louisiana legislature also eliminated parole for almost all inmates in prison for crimes committed after August 1st. 16:06.040 --> 16:12.084 [SPEAKER_03]: It is the 17th state to abolish parole in the past 50 years, and it is the first state to abolish parole in the past 24 years. 16:12.684 --> 16:15.646 [SPEAKER_03]: And the parole board, people on the parole board are confused. 16:15.746 --> 16:16.087 [SPEAKER_03]: They're like, 16:16.927 --> 16:20.051 [SPEAKER_03]: What's the point of even having a parole board if we're not allowing for human judgment? 16:20.111 --> 16:25.758 [SPEAKER_03]: If the whole thing is dictated by this stupid algorithm, like why even bother having us on this parole board? 16:25.878 --> 16:29.422 [SPEAKER_03]: It's all, it's a kangaroo court is the expression. 16:29.943 --> 16:30.183 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 16:31.585 --> 16:31.825 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow. 16:33.006 --> 16:37.507 [SPEAKER_03]: and a legislator behind the bill who got the ball rolling here. 16:37.627 --> 16:43.829 [SPEAKER_03]: State Senator Patrick McMath, which is a great name, he's Republican from coming to him. 16:43.969 --> 16:51.190 [SPEAKER_03]: He claimed that so many unrealistic parole petitions were coming through the board that the deserving, the most deserving prisoners were not getting prioritized. 16:51.750 --> 16:55.891 [SPEAKER_03]: And this new system is making it run more efficiently, but that's not the case. 16:56.852 --> 17:00.132 [SPEAKER_03]: The number of cases heard by the Louisiana parole board actually dropped 40 percent 17:03.414 --> 17:20.912 [SPEAKER_03]: And they're just trying to kill parole, but the average number of people up to 2020, let's say, up to 2023 was they had 32 people per month per rolled, and now it's dropped to six people per month since this morning to effect. 17:21.412 --> 17:26.337 [SPEAKER_03]: So they are effectively clogging up the back end of the incarceration experience. 17:27.298 --> 17:36.225 [SPEAKER_03]: to not allow people to get out and over 70 parole hearings were cancelled between August in December of 2024 because they're like, oh, these risk scores are too high. 17:36.245 --> 17:37.606 [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, geez. 17:38.606 --> 17:42.970 [SPEAKER_03]: Now, for some impacts, Boston's Crime Adjusted Institute estimates it by 2024. 17:42.990 --> 17:43.810 [SPEAKER_03]: Landry's rollback of inmates. 17:47.505 --> 17:50.687 [SPEAKER_03]: ability to get for all double the size of the states prison population. 17:51.408 --> 18:00.054 [SPEAKER_03]: It will double the number of nonviolent offenders and custody and the state will be on the hook for bill of two billion dollars for new prisons to accommodate the ballooning population. 18:03.476 --> 18:05.677 [SPEAKER_01]: Imagine what you could do with two billion dollars. 18:06.518 --> 18:16.665 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, imagine imagine the amelioration you could make in that state imagine like the you could probably like do free college in that state for two billion. 18:17.799 --> 18:22.902 [SPEAKER_03]: You could make it start to not suck outside of New Orleans, like everything I've been doing right since is hell. 18:23.222 --> 18:23.542 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 18:24.343 --> 18:39.011 [SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's the fun thing is if you think about the impact that that could have on the schools there, my goodness, that would be phenomenal. 18:39.551 --> 18:40.972 [SPEAKER_03]: There are, thank you for bringing up the schools. 18:41.693 --> 18:44.154 [SPEAKER_03]: Governor Landry has also proposed cutting $165 million in education funding. 18:46.007 --> 19:02.987 [SPEAKER_03]: including $40 million for state universities in 125 million for case through 12 education including cutting teacher pay well you know you can understand you you got to be able to do that because you know 19:03.817 --> 19:07.519 [SPEAKER_02]: the state of Louisiana is just doing fantastic when it comes to education. 19:08.179 --> 19:10.660 [SPEAKER_02]: So let's pay the teachers even less. 19:11.560 --> 19:14.001 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, it boats poorly for the future of the state. 19:14.242 --> 19:16.503 [SPEAKER_03]: This is like really poor policy. 19:16.743 --> 19:18.443 [SPEAKER_03]: It's not planning ahead for your state. 19:18.543 --> 19:25.647 [SPEAKER_03]: It is planning for like this idea of crime control for your state, but it's not grounded and it kind of research. 19:25.667 --> 19:32.770 [SPEAKER_03]: It's grounded in emotion and I'm going to keep you safe governance and it doesn't work that way. 19:35.131 --> 19:35.371 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 19:35.951 --> 19:36.431 [SPEAKER_01]: Right. 19:36.551 --> 19:38.932 [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like cutting education too. 19:39.012 --> 19:44.974 [SPEAKER_01]: Like we see like positive correlation between education and like literacy rates and stuff. 19:45.314 --> 19:48.875 [SPEAKER_01]: And you know, a crime free society. 19:48.915 --> 19:54.536 [SPEAKER_01]: And so this is this is going to only make the problem worse down the line. 19:54.556 --> 20:00.558 [SPEAKER_01]: And they're going to have to wear house more people because more people are uneducated and they turn to crime 20:04.139 --> 20:04.499 [SPEAKER_01]: For sure. 20:04.719 --> 20:05.519 [SPEAKER_01]: My gosh. 20:05.839 --> 20:06.460 [SPEAKER_01]: My gosh. 20:06.540 --> 20:07.200 [SPEAKER_03]: I was depressing. 20:08.060 --> 20:30.084 [SPEAKER_03]: I decided to study all the time, but there's a study out of Yushu Kago from, I want to say 2020 that tells us, okay, with all this research gone into it, every $1 that we invest in early childhood education, we get back $7 on the back end, because that's money from largely, from people out of the criminal justice system. 20:30.264 --> 20:30.964 [SPEAKER_03]: It's less sexy. 20:32.284 --> 20:38.248 [SPEAKER_03]: put money into something where you're not going to see the results for like 18 years, but it is so incredibly necessary. 20:38.349 --> 20:44.493 [SPEAKER_01]: It is sexy to like put money into something and get a lot of money back down the line. 20:45.033 --> 20:50.978 [SPEAKER_01]: Like everyone likes that, everyone likes, you know, an investment that makes them a lot of money, and this is just an investment. 20:50.998 --> 20:56.342 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, we talk about these politicians who are going to run the government like businessmen and whatever. 20:57.222 --> 21:08.664 [SPEAKER_01]: And every time they run it poorly and bankrupt the state, you know, it expense of social services, it's, yeah, it's awful. 21:10.492 --> 21:14.936 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, cutting social services, cutting safety nets for people who actually need it. 21:16.197 --> 21:19.139 [SPEAKER_03]: And who benefits really? 21:19.279 --> 21:22.502 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, we know that it doesn't mean there's lower crime. 21:24.284 --> 21:31.009 [SPEAKER_03]: Locking people up has this, there's a tipping point where once so many people are locked up, it doesn't actually 21:32.130 --> 21:51.702 [SPEAKER_01]: lower crime very much anymore now it causes more systemic issue because you take fathers away from children you take breadwinner's away from households you know and that's going to down the line cause a lot more problems once again because it doesn't afford to keep up with the tuner these 21:52.659 --> 22:13.163 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, any disruption of the family is not good for children in the future and yeah, like in these these politicians who are like tough on crime supposedly or like also like all all the time every single time very pro family and Pro nuclear family, but they're ripping these families these nuclear families apart right 22:14.393 --> 22:15.294 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, precisely. 22:15.754 --> 22:18.636 [SPEAKER_03]: And it's gross, it's terrible policy. 22:20.037 --> 22:23.980 [SPEAKER_03]: Governor Landry, you know, screw you did. 22:24.200 --> 22:25.881 [SPEAKER_03]: We officially unendorce you. 22:26.461 --> 22:30.284 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not a friend of the podcast, right? 22:30.424 --> 22:32.425 [SPEAKER_03]: Not a friend, not invited on. 22:33.346 --> 22:33.646 [SPEAKER_03]: No. 22:35.027 --> 22:39.950 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes, but I do want to explain himself, but not using like tacky shit rhetoric. 22:40.291 --> 22:42.972 [SPEAKER_03]: I want him to actually explain what goes into these policies. 22:44.233 --> 22:45.234 [SPEAKER_03]: You know he can't. 22:45.254 --> 22:55.561 [SPEAKER_01]: You know he can't in a rational logical way because this is all illogical anti-science, anti-stitistics, anti-academia. 22:57.242 --> 23:08.470 [SPEAKER_03]: It's, I don't think there's any rationality behind it other than maybe this will get me more votes from writing a voting base who is rabid for anti-cri 23:11.475 --> 23:11.895 [SPEAKER_01]: All right. 23:12.556 --> 23:19.800 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, let's let's travel a little bit north here for a little article out of Michigan. 23:20.240 --> 23:25.963 [SPEAKER_01]: Someone comes from WXYZ Detroit, which is like the greatest call sign WXYZ. 23:26.023 --> 23:27.304 [SPEAKER_03]: God, that's one thing. 23:27.444 --> 23:28.344 [SPEAKER_01]: I know, right. 23:28.465 --> 23:28.825 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 23:29.405 --> 23:31.466 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't even have a TV or radio station. 23:31.646 --> 23:32.006 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 23:32.047 --> 23:32.687 [SPEAKER_01]: I just want that. 23:33.087 --> 23:45.898 [SPEAKER_01]: So this one comes from Randy Wimbley and and Rays Milo's this one says Michigan lawmakers demand prison director resign after two women die. 23:46.418 --> 23:48.320 [SPEAKER_01]: It states only women's prison. 23:50.322 --> 23:54.445 [SPEAKER_01]: So this one comes from your slanty michigan. 23:54.625 --> 23:55.346 [SPEAKER_01]: I love that name. 23:56.183 --> 23:57.184 [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, it's a lanty. 23:57.604 --> 24:17.317 [SPEAKER_01]: Is it if salanty, if salanty, if salanty, so Michigan lawmakers from both parties are calling for the resignation of Michigan Department of Corrections Director, Heidi Washington, following the deaths of two inmates at women's Huron Valley Correctional Facility, the state's only women's prison. 24:18.408 --> 24:27.317 [SPEAKER_01]: Korea Howard and inmates who had recently alerted lawmakers about mold inside the prison died just weeks before her scheduled parole. 24:28.638 --> 24:35.865 [SPEAKER_01]: Days later, inmate Rebecca Fakler also died, the exact causes of both deaths remain unknown. 24:38.384 --> 25:04.462 [SPEAKER_01]: So, right, state representative Lori Pushki said the deaths underscore what she described as a failure of leadership at the top of the state's prison system, saying, quote, director Washington has said time and time again that there are no issues at women's her own valley, and I don't understand how anybody can say that in good conscience after a woman just died on 25:07.076 --> 25:18.201 [SPEAKER_01]: Howard's mother, Shaquilla, Dishields, described her reaction to learning of her daughter's death, saying, quote, my first words was, what the hell did y'all do to my daughter? 25:19.002 --> 25:19.882 [SPEAKER_01]: What did you do to her? 25:19.902 --> 25:29.587 [SPEAKER_01]: On quote, Heather Dennis, who was friends with both women wall incarcerated spoke about the impact of the losses, saying quote, 25:30.805 --> 25:40.609 [SPEAKER_01]: My heart just goes out to the families that have lost their loved ones due to this, because they're more than just an inmate with a number, their human beings, every one of the women there. 25:43.009 --> 25:53.093 [SPEAKER_01]: On Thursday, representative Prushki sent a letter signed by 34 lawmakers from both parties demanding Washington resign, saying change cannot happen under her leadership. 25:55.273 --> 26:04.442 [SPEAKER_01]: state representative Donovan McKinney, one of the lawmakers who signed the letter, said the situation was reaching a breaking point, saying quote, enough is enough. 26:05.223 --> 26:09.447 [SPEAKER_01]: So we're all fed up because this is a cycle of issues that have never been addressed. 26:10.168 --> 26:16.554 [SPEAKER_01]: So we have to do what we need to do as legislators and call on the executive to we have to get rid of her. 26:18.219 --> 26:23.832 [SPEAKER_01]: Um, McKinney joined a virtual meeting with Washington about the women's prison on Friday. 26:24.353 --> 26:27.801 [SPEAKER_01]: He said the response of the department felt familiar, saying, quote, 26:28.872 --> 26:37.217 [SPEAKER_01]: They just talked about how, you know, they're doing some things to address what's happening, you know, kind of like the same spiel we've been hearing for years now on quote. 26:38.257 --> 26:46.142 [SPEAKER_01]: We can he said lawmakers are now pushing to close the facility entirely, leaving them with no women's prison in the state. 26:47.242 --> 26:48.303 [SPEAKER_03]: That's an extreme move. 26:48.723 --> 26:49.383 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, the right. 26:49.523 --> 26:55.947 [SPEAKER_01]: He said quote, we're calling from community legislators, we're calling to shut that facility to down and move those women somewhere else on quote. 26:57.816 --> 27:01.461 [SPEAKER_01]: Activists and concerns citizens protested in front of the prison earlier this week. 27:01.962 --> 27:12.817 [SPEAKER_01]: The controversy follows a house oversight committee hearing where whistleblowers described extreme mold inadequate medical care drug trafficking and retaliation against inmates who speak out. 27:14.288 --> 27:15.829 [SPEAKER_03]: All bad things. 27:16.109 --> 27:18.411 [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I think I found this as bad. 27:18.451 --> 27:19.312 [SPEAKER_01]: This is my stance. 27:19.532 --> 27:21.653 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, not a front of the pod. 27:23.595 --> 27:31.420 [SPEAKER_01]: I reported an April that Fort Homicide Investigations had been launched in five weeks of prisons throughout the state of March. 27:35.083 --> 27:39.926 [SPEAKER_01]: The Michigan Department of Corrections issued the following statement saying, 27:42.487 --> 27:51.354 [SPEAKER_01]: The Michigan Department of Corrections has established itself as a national leader in evidence-based corrections under the direction of director Heidi E. Washington. 27:51.694 --> 28:06.066 [SPEAKER_01]: Over the last decade, the Department has safely reduced the prison population, worked to modernize families and operations, increased opportunities that support long-term public safety and self-sufficiency, and achieved the lowest recidivism rates in our state's history. 28:07.307 --> 28:08.127 [SPEAKER_01]: his past September. 28:08.648 --> 28:21.235 [SPEAKER_01]: The department hosted its largest college graduation ceremony today at women's her own valley-correctional facility, with 70 women graduating with associate or bachelor's degrees from Jackson College and Eastern Michigan University. 28:22.395 --> 28:33.782 [SPEAKER_01]: Under the director's leadership, a vocational village which certifies women in skilled trades was also implemented at the facility and has helped hundreds of women gain the right skills for a good paying job. 28:34.442 --> 28:39.404 [SPEAKER_01]: that a parliament is committed to its mission of preparing people for a success in providing safe and secure facilities. 28:40.725 --> 28:59.153 [SPEAKER_01]: Director Washington has been on-site with healthcare leadership at Women's Huron Valley Correctional Facility to provide oversight in day-to-day operations while investigations are underway, additional experience clinical leadership from across the state, have also been called to the facility to provide assistance during this time. 28:59.997 --> 29:05.779 [SPEAKER_01]: the department continues to prioritize the investigations and we'll provide information on their findings when they conclude. 29:06.840 --> 29:07.600 [SPEAKER_03]: You know what this is? 29:07.660 --> 29:14.903 [SPEAKER_03]: This is, look at this shiny right hand, so you can't see what went moldy and mysteriously dead left hand is right. 29:15.083 --> 29:16.183 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, precisely. 29:16.603 --> 29:18.104 [SPEAKER_03]: But let's promote the successes. 29:18.184 --> 29:22.786 [SPEAKER_03]: So nobody pays attention to the failures, really it's the causes of death first off. 29:23.046 --> 29:24.826 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, like maybe they're mold related. 29:24.866 --> 29:28.608 [SPEAKER_03]: Maybe they're not, maybe somebody had an allergy or a heart attack or who knows. 29:28.968 --> 29:30.429 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, like, release cause of death. 29:30.529 --> 29:32.249 [SPEAKER_03]: Do autopsy make this public. 29:32.790 --> 29:41.793 [SPEAKER_03]: If you, you should be caring about these things because this is public backlash and if if there's nothing to hide from, don't hide from it. 29:41.873 --> 29:43.794 [SPEAKER_03]: Also, why can't? 29:44.314 --> 29:46.115 [SPEAKER_03]: Why can't people just take some accountability? 29:47.295 --> 29:50.797 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, just be accountable. 29:51.337 --> 29:53.358 [SPEAKER_03]: Who's responsible for these deaths, if anyone? 29:53.538 --> 30:00.181 [SPEAKER_01]: Right, right, and like the director, the responsible thing to do would be to come out and say, hey, I take responsibility for this. 30:00.661 --> 30:02.502 [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not resigning because I want to fix this. 30:02.522 --> 30:03.282 [SPEAKER_01]: I know. 30:03.582 --> 30:03.842 [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. 30:04.222 --> 30:05.383 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, why not do that? 30:05.903 --> 30:09.985 [SPEAKER_03]: And I would respect public officials so much more if something like that happened. 30:10.065 --> 30:10.225 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 30:10.565 --> 30:10.705 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 30:10.725 --> 30:14.707 [SPEAKER_03]: It looks not here and like this happened on my watch and I am deeply sorry to the family. 30:14.848 --> 30:15.088 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 30:15.168 --> 30:15.428 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 30:15.608 --> 30:18.790 [SPEAKER_02]: Like obviously when we do everything I can to try and make it better. 30:19.790 --> 30:22.852 [SPEAKER_02]: To try and repair the situations so that it doesn't happen again in the future. 30:22.872 --> 30:23.412 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 30:23.453 --> 30:23.633 [SPEAKER_03]: Yes. 30:23.793 --> 30:24.593 [SPEAKER_03]: I'm not naive. 30:24.613 --> 30:27.675 [SPEAKER_03]: This does open them up to lawsuit, but they are already opened up to lawsuit. 30:28.515 --> 30:31.817 [SPEAKER_03]: There's trying to stonewall the victim's families. 30:31.897 --> 30:32.138 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 30:32.638 --> 30:35.219 [SPEAKER_01]: And what would they rather that like. 30:36.680 --> 30:39.222 [SPEAKER_01]: You know, the findings come out in their cause of death come out at trial. 30:40.062 --> 30:46.926 [SPEAKER_01]: or would they rather have control of the conversation and be able to say, hey, yes, we did this, we're taking accountability. 30:48.647 --> 30:49.387 [SPEAKER_03]: Right, exactly. 30:49.487 --> 30:51.889 [SPEAKER_03]: Like, then you actually control the narrative. 30:52.129 --> 30:52.589 [SPEAKER_03]: Exactly. 30:53.049 --> 30:54.610 [SPEAKER_02]: They're so stupid that they're... 30:56.611 --> 31:01.514 [SPEAKER_03]: It's either inept or the wheels of bureaucracy turn so slowly, they don't know why people died. 31:03.575 --> 31:05.156 [SPEAKER_03]: It, I don't know. 31:05.556 --> 31:07.557 [SPEAKER_03]: I don't know, and we have no idea what's going on with the mold. 31:08.498 --> 31:08.678 [SPEAKER_03]: Right. 31:12.223 --> 31:13.645 [SPEAKER_03]: So that's a bunch of depressing news. 31:15.367 --> 31:16.369 [SPEAKER_03]: No, don't frame it like that. 31:16.389 --> 31:17.490 [SPEAKER_03]: This is prison news. 31:17.510 --> 31:18.432 [SPEAKER_03]: This is the news. 31:18.452 --> 31:20.014 [SPEAKER_02]: Because we're getting the word out there. 31:20.034 --> 31:22.838 [SPEAKER_01]: The press is news. 31:23.439 --> 31:25.161 [SPEAKER_01]: Now we have the blues. 31:26.964 --> 31:28.185 [SPEAKER_03]: That was a great live performance. 31:28.225 --> 31:28.646 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you. 31:31.097 --> 31:36.739 [SPEAKER_02]: But you know what is something positive is our sponsor, Roger Williams University School of Justice. 31:36.759 --> 31:37.999 [SPEAKER_01]: That is so positive. 31:38.119 --> 31:40.920 [SPEAKER_01]: I love Roger Williams University School of Justice studies. 31:41.861 --> 31:43.961 [SPEAKER_01]: It's something more. 31:44.441 --> 31:49.063 [SPEAKER_01]: Do you want to know about their delicious and insightful degree offerings? 31:50.600 --> 32:02.154 [SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe you could just speak about how wonderful that one criminal justice faculty member is, you know, about any hair, not me, definitely on your back. 32:02.814 --> 32:09.903 [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely, you know, you've got perfect hair, but the other one, you know, you could talk about him a lot, or you could tell us about the programs. 32:10.290 --> 32:12.232 [SPEAKER_01]: I could tell you about the programs. 32:12.952 --> 32:32.568 [SPEAKER_01]: So we've got degree and certificate offerings in all types of stuff, such as public administration, legal studies, political science, forensic science, anthropology, sociology, international relations. 32:33.568 --> 32:35.450 [SPEAKER_01]: Of course, we've got 32:37.365 --> 32:38.266 [SPEAKER_01]: criminal justice. 32:38.327 --> 32:41.772 [SPEAKER_01]: These guys right over here, give it up for the big one. 32:41.812 --> 32:42.754 [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 32:43.134 --> 32:47.080 [SPEAKER_01]: And, and of course, my favorite, everyone's favorite. 33:05.250 --> 33:13.156 [SPEAKER_03]: Wow, this is like a recola commercial, sorry, but like so extended, nobody can understand that pretty just saying leaders too. 33:16.478 --> 33:17.018 [SPEAKER_03]: Leadership. 33:19.440 --> 33:22.081 [SPEAKER_03]: What does that instrument call that long recola tube? 33:22.642 --> 33:24.003 [SPEAKER_01]: It's called the recola tube, you got it. 33:26.544 --> 33:28.085 [SPEAKER_02]: But you have to ask for it properly. 33:28.245 --> 33:31.888 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, I think the blue man group uses one of those. 33:36.442 --> 33:38.724 [SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, Roger Williams University School of Justice Studies. 33:38.824 --> 33:46.650 [SPEAKER_03]: I finally figured it out, Eric was talking about either Richard Rose or a Saeed, two of our wonderful... No, no, no. 33:46.690 --> 33:47.831 [SPEAKER_02]: No, no, no, no. 33:47.931 --> 33:54.155 [SPEAKER_02]: I took criminal justice directly, not just the studies, Professor Criminal Justice. 33:54.576 --> 33:55.136 [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. 33:55.176 --> 33:55.476 [SPEAKER_03]: Shit. 33:56.757 --> 33:56.977 [SPEAKER_02]: All right. 33:57.017 --> 34:00.538 [SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's still a riddle, a little bit. 34:00.558 --> 34:02.599 [SPEAKER_00]: That was still a riddle. 34:03.119 --> 34:08.021 [SPEAKER_01]: It's like your playing guess who and you only have one square and you're like, Gosh, I still can't figure it out. 34:09.561 --> 34:14.063 [SPEAKER_01]: So does it a white bald guy with glasses? 34:14.403 --> 34:15.283 [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. 34:15.463 --> 34:18.204 [SPEAKER_03]: It's like a cork board where all strings lead back to air. 34:18.224 --> 34:20.205 [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, you're just staring at us. 34:20.225 --> 34:22.106 [SPEAKER_00]: Gosh, there's got to be something more. 34:27.848 --> 34:29.969 [SPEAKER_03]: Well, thank you for listening, dear listener. 34:30.749 --> 34:31.769 [SPEAKER_03]: We hope you enjoyed our show. 34:31.929 --> 34:34.650 [SPEAKER_03]: Please give us five stars subscribe. 34:34.990 --> 34:37.971 [SPEAKER_03]: It helps the pod and show some love on your review. 34:38.811 --> 34:42.092 [SPEAKER_03]: With that, we are out of here like Richard gear. 34:43.392 --> 34:43.873 [SPEAKER_03]: Lights out. 34:44.533 --> 34:44.973 [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting. 34:45.353 --> 34:45.913 [SPEAKER_02]: Lights out. 34:46.673 --> 34:47.574 [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's lights out. 34:48.374 --> 34:49.694 [SPEAKER_02]: I think I turned the light off. 34:49.954 --> 34:52.155 [SPEAKER_02]: We've got to turn them all off.