[SPEAKER_00]: what's up ladies and gentlemen boys and girls around the world i'd like to welcome you back to the real talk with zubi podcast on today's episode we're going to be having a very interesting conversation i've got on zico in sances she is a political campaigner she is the founder of soul strategies and national ground game welcome to the show zi how you doing yeah good thanks for having me
[SPEAKER_00]: No doubt, it's a pleasure to have you here, Zee.
[SPEAKER_00]: And thank you for coming on.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's actually quite rare for me to have people who are firmly on the left wing of the political aisle come on this podcast and many others.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, respect to you, upfront, for being willing to have the conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm glad your team reached out.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, of course.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm happy to represent the left.
[SPEAKER_00]: Awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, before we jump into politics, just introduce yourself to my listeners, tell them who you are and what you're about.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so my name's Z. I'm the executive director as we said of national ground game also soul strategies, but I think national ground game does a lot broader work.
[SPEAKER_02]: And we actually got started about a year ago before Charlie's assassination and our goal was to obviously to counter turning point USA that still our goal is to counter turning point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so we went through a lot of very interesting twists and turns along the way to get here, but I think we've grown a lot since we started and have had many iterations, and I'm really looking forward to us winning the midterms.
[SPEAKER_00]: And where are you from and how did you get into politics?
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so I'm basically I'm from New York.
[SPEAKER_02]: I spent 10 years in New York and now live in Nevada.
[SPEAKER_02]: So in a swing state, which I'm very proud of love, love the state of Nevada.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's got a really rich political history.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, um, you know, I got my start really at the beginning of 2010 when I actually started college, um, not to terribly age myself.
[SPEAKER_02]: But when I started college, it was the very beginning of the Obama days, things were really bright in our future or so it appeared.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, prior to knowing the Trump was going to be elected in about five years from then.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I got the experience of having going through the Occupy Wall Street almost every day as I went to school.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I really think that that was sort of the beginning of my political journey.
[SPEAKER_02]: really like trying to figure out why the super wealthy in this country had the privilege that they had when we had and really like exploring the wealth inequality in this country and that really drove me to want to make a change and to want to get more young people involved in politics.
[SPEAKER_00]: Are you from a political family?
[SPEAKER_02]: Kind of, so I'm a Jew as you've probably seen on my Twitter,
[SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, thanks a lot for that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, uh, so yes, I mean, I think like all Jews are inherently political, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, you know, even even those of us who aren't from like inherently political families, you know, I'm an Ashkenave Jew, so we, you know, go all the way back to the beginning of, you know, our heritage.
[SPEAKER_02]: And, um, yeah, I would say that like all of us are are very like politically involved, but
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, my parents were, especially my dad definitely was a Democratic socialist introduced me to Bernie Sanders at a very young age.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And how do you describe your own politics?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you consider yourself a Democratic socialist?
[SPEAKER_02]: I do.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because the far left doesn't consider me to be far left, which is I've always found interesting.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think of myself as a very far left person.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I helped Bernie Sanders twice.
[SPEAKER_02]: I helped get AOC elected in 2018.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've helped Zoron Mundani.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I consider myself to be like a very far left person, but that doesn't always meet the litmus test unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there are that many people who sort of publicly describe themselves as far left, just like there aren't that many people who publicly describe themselves as far right.
[SPEAKER_00]: It tends to be a label that is stuck onto someone from the other side, usually not with good intentions, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like calling someone far right doesn't conjure up great images and calling someone far left, typically doesn't conjure up great images.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what does that mean to you when you say that you are far left politically?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so I know, I think you're from the UK, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and I grew up a part of my life in Australia.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, when I say far left in the United States, I would say to us that would be like more in the middle, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: But unfortunately in this country, we've moved so far to the right that I consider far left to not even be, I don't even think like really far left, even really exists if that makes sense, like at on a global scale.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what do you mean by, you don't take it exists because, I mean, communism is real, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, so I think like, obviously, there were going to be those like quote unquote people that are super far left that are communist, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So like though like Hassan Piker's for example, but I think that that is such a tiny minisual minority of people that I don't even think that they should have the label as far.
[SPEAKER_02]: left, I think it's that to me is almost like a non-existent class.
[SPEAKER_02]: So when I say far left, I guess I could rephrase that as democratic socialist because I sort of see the far left as people that would support like Medicare for all people that would support people like Bernie Sanders, AOC policies.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what do you believe is a democratic socialist?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I have an idea of what that term means, but as someone who embraces the label, what does that actually mean in terms of policies and positions?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I just think it means that that working class people in this country should work 40 hours a week and live a dignified life.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that people should be entitled to health care, especially if they're working 40 hours a week.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think they should be entitled to free college.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that we should have a fair tax equality.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that the super wealthy need to pay their fair share.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that how do you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: What does that mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: for what which part.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's let's pause let's go through a few of them.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when you say free healthcare who who should pay for it because free healthcare doesn't exist.
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I think that we, it should be included in our taxes the same way that we have it in Australia, the same way they have it in the UK, the same way they have it in Canada.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that where the misconception comes when it comes to Medicare for all is that people believe that that means
[SPEAKER_02]: there should be no scenario in which you're working 40 hours a week in the United States and the richest country in the history of the world and you should go bankrupt because you were just one of those people that got unlucky and got cancer, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that pretty much anybody in any like civilized country would agree with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you would too, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think that's, um, I've never come across anyone, even, you have never come across anyone, even on the right who thinks that it's a good idea for American citizens who pay taxes to go bankrupt because they have a medical emergency.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people certainly differ on what they think the best solutions are, but I hear people all across the aisle.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not an American, but I hear people all across the aisle.
[SPEAKER_00]: complaining about the expense of healthcare and how some of these emergencies can, you know, just ruin people and ruin families.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's, um, yeah, I don't know what the, I don't know what the right answer is.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm from the UK.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it seems like no matter the country, whether you're talking about the US or Canada or anywhere in Europe or Australia.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever the health care scenario is, it seems like people have a problem with it.
[SPEAKER_00]: In the UK, there's the NHS National Health Service, which is generally a popular institution, but people complain about it, non-stop all day long every day, but at the same time, people don't want to abolish it.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not a popular position.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't necessarily know how that would work in the USA and how something like that would scale just given the 50 states and the size of the country.
[SPEAKER_00]: And even just people's general health, I think universal health care that's taxpayer funded.
[SPEAKER_00]: is a much easier sell and kind of makes more sense.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, number one, when people who are not citizens or at least permanent residents can take advantage of the system, but also when people are just healthier, I think one of the big problems in the US is it's just a very unhealthy country.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, the cost of something like that, I have not run the numbers, but I think the cost of it could be much much higher than it is somewhere like Sweden or Norway or Switzerland where people are just actually generally physically a lot healthier and have healthier habits.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, it might not be as tough on the taxpayer or the economy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, and that's the thing is that if we have preventative measures, people will automatically be more healthy and we will spend less money.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that is, you know, that, that is the smartest thing to do is that, instead of waiting until somebody does potentially have cancer or somebody does potentially have a disease that is going to cost us hundreds of thousands of dollars to fix.
[SPEAKER_02]: What is a lot better is having that preventative care early, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that regardless of how healthy or not healthy country is automatically that's going to bring down the cost.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then also I think there's this like misconception on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, if we have a public option, there's not going to be space for private insurance.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's not true either.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't know about anything about the UK, I'm like how your system works, but like in Australia, we've got private insurance available to everybody.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to get private insurance like Boopa or any of those things, you could pay an extra premium and then you can have access to essentially anything you want.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I just, I don't see, and to be honest, I mean, as you said, I don't hear people on the right necessarily really arguing with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: The only people that I see arguing against a public option are people that have, you know, people that have, what would you call it like a interest?
[SPEAKER_02]: Invested interest, right, and making sure that that doesn't happen.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's interesting and you've talked about the rich people paying their fair share.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what does that mean to you?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, I think that, so one of the, I think that like a good way to sort of look at this because when we talk about taxes and when we talk about the rich paying their fair share, I think that there is more concrete things that we can look at here.
[SPEAKER_02]: So for example, housing, housing is a huge problem in the United States.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how it is in the UK.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you know a little bit about our system here and how astronomically high or housing costs are.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, considerably more compared to how much people how much money people earn.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think in the US I want to say in the USA, let me try to do some quick math.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to say in the US the average the median House costs something like five times the median salary.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, whereas in the UK you're talking closer to 11 or 12
[SPEAKER_02]: Wow.
[SPEAKER_02]: So what are the results of that?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are people obviously just not by houses?
[SPEAKER_02]: I would assume, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not good for this, especially for the younger generation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's getting harder and harder for people to get on the property ladder and for people to, yeah, to afford houses.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just completely out of the reach of the vast majority of people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even if you are earning well, just like in the US, like even if
[SPEAKER_00]: It's kind of interesting because coming from the UK I look at houses in the US even in more expensive parts and I'm like, oh, okay, that's reasonably affordable compared to the UK, especially considering the size of the houses like in the UK houses are a lot smaller than you pay a lot more for them.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, I think regardless in both countries, across the entire West, as far as I'm aware, the ratio of how much people earn versus how much accommodation actually costs, it's been trending so that it's further and further out of the reach of more and more people.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which obviously is a huge problem right like that's that is wealth inequality that is affecting everybody at this point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think that like a good way to look at this is enacting policies that prevent these large corporations going into these single family homes and purchasing them.
[SPEAKER_02]: at prices that obviously the average person can't afford.
[SPEAKER_02]: So there are certain policies like out here in Nevada.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have policies that are municipal where there are certain places that you cannot do that in.
[SPEAKER_02]: And because of that, we're saying more young families that are coming in and purchasing those houses.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also becoming a problem because in certain places where they don't have those policies, you have neighborhoods that are effectively completely empty, right, which is not good, obviously, for local businesses in the area that are relying on people moving into those neighborhoods to be able to purchase their goods and services.
[SPEAKER_02]: So again, I think that this is something that the left and the right can agree on, and I'm not sure why we don't have
[SPEAKER_02]: we're not agreeing on that.
[SPEAKER_02]: To me, again, this seems like it's like vested interest instead of what's best for the American public.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think where a lot of the disagreement lies is in the proposed solution.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not necessarily in diagnosing the problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think everyone would agree that houses being unaffordable is a big problem for the average American.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that if you talk to someone on the right someone who's conservative or libertarian versus someone who's more progressive or left-leaning, democratic socialist, the proposed solutions would probably look very different.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what would your proposed solution be for this unaffordableity problem?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I really think that, well, obviously it's going to depend on where it's at, right, but I think that having policies that stop large corporations from coming in and that stop.
[SPEAKER_02]: These outside investors from other countries from coming in and just purchasing homes and not living there is what we need to be doing.
[SPEAKER_02]: The the minutia of that I think is going to depend obviously aware of that right we can't the the same policies cannot apply in a place like role in the matter that can apply in New York City because obviously the the problems of housing are very different in those places, but I think overall that's the direction that we should be going.
[SPEAKER_00]: Got it so.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I think it really depends on the situation is part of the reason I ask that is if we take somewhere so I'm from the UK right and in the UK, one of the one of the big issues is just lack of supply.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very difficult to actually build new houses in the UK.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know all the ins and outs, but all the bureaucracy, all the over regulation.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's very hard to just build new houses to meet the demand, whether the demand is from.
[SPEAKER_00]: young families or whether it's from people coming into the country via migration, they're just not enough property and it's very, very hard to build.
[SPEAKER_00]: So somewhere like the UK, it seems to strike me that, okay, a solution here would be to make it much easier for developers to build properties.
[SPEAKER_00]: so that instead of houses being this thing where their view is like a, almost like a giant piggy bank.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a way for, you know, people to store their wealth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how so many people in the UK view houses, not necessarily just to somewhere to live, but hey, this is how you store wealth.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why it's so important to...
[SPEAKER_00]: get on the property ladder.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think if the supply meant the demand, then naturally just due to market forces, then the prices would come down both in terms of rent, but also in terms of being able to actually buy something.
[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of the U.S., I would think there are probably parts of the country where the problem is similar, where it's very hard to build, but I don't know all the ins and outs of all the different cities and states and rural areas and so on.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it really depends.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like one of our biggest issues out here in Rome, Nevada is that it is very easy to build.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you could build.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we don't even have the city council.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, you're really as long as you own the property.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's pretty much fair.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, people are not building as often because obviously the cost of materials is ridiculous and why is the cost of materials ridiculous would be because of tariffs.
[SPEAKER_02]: So it is, you know, and but again, I think it's different in every area.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean some places it is much harder to build obviously and I think that they would have to loosen those regulations.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think overall what we're trying to do at national ground game and unfuck or uneth America is that we are trying to bring those people over that are saying, yes, I agree with you economically.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the issue is is that we need more young people to buy houses.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's that's the issue.
[SPEAKER_02]: How we get there, we can negotiate.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think that part of the problem is is that half of the people on the right, I think don't even want to solve those problems to begin with.
[SPEAKER_02]: So, and that's where I think we have a lot of clearance and taking a lot of those voters from them from the mid-terms.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I have a question.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you say the right, so you just said half of the right, who are you talking about?
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you mean the politicians do you mean the people in power?
[SPEAKER_00]: Or do you just mean people who vote Republican?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, people in power.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a majority of people that vote Republican agree with exactly what we're talking about, right, like they want young people to buy houses, they don't want to be paying $6 at the gas pump for gas.
[SPEAKER_02]: They don't want to be paying a ton of extra money on groceries every month that they can't afford.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think ultimately that's why Trump won, right, because Trump won based on the cost of eggs.
[SPEAKER_02]: If I'm going to be very critical on our party right now, but I don't believe the Kamala Harris message in a way that was effective in a way that Trump was able to reach the working class in this country.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I believe that that's why Trump won.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think he won based on his policies.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that he won based on the way that he messaged his ability to help the working class,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would say that it was both, I think there are a lot of factors in why Trump won, not just in the last election, but in 2016 certainly where I was one of the few people that didn't blind side.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the only thing I'm mad at is that I didn't put money on it when the odds were like a hundred to one or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: I thought he was going to win before he'd even won the Republican nomination, but
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone thought I was crazy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember this very well, like people thought I was nuts when I said that and I was like gosh I wanted to put money on it, but I kind of got I let too many people talk to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: So Yeah, so
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, let's talk about the, let's talk about, you, you brought up the, the rich and this idea of fair share.
[SPEAKER_00]: What does, what does fair share mean?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because I, I never hear anyone on the left actually explain what they mean by fair share.
[SPEAKER_00]: Because the rich people already pay the vast majority of taxes.
[SPEAKER_00]: So when people say the rich aren't paying their fair share, what do, what do you mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, when I'm talking the rich, I'm not talking necessarily about millionaires.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm talking about billionaires.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that the biggest issue that we have our tax loop holes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, there's a problem here, right, because everybody says, oh, well, the richer paying the majority of the taxes, so everything is fine, but it's not fine, because it's still $30,000 if you need to get an ambulance.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's we still don't have college that's affordable.
[SPEAKER_02]: We still don't have housing that's affordable So obviously something is wrong right now that needs to be fixed I think if you talk to any American that's living here I think that even people that vote Republican would agree that things are not working the way that they should Is it all because billionaires are paying taxes?
[SPEAKER_02]: No, not necessarily I think that there's a lot of problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I pause so yeah the thing is this idea that billionaires don't pay taxes is it's just not true
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the biggest taxpayer in the country is the richest man in the country.
[SPEAKER_02]: Which is Elon Musk.
[SPEAKER_00]: No one paid more taxes than Elon.
[SPEAKER_02]: No one pays more.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but are we looking at the percentage of his income?
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you looking at how much money he's paid?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, certainly the latter is absolutely like, is just absolutely nominally true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, in terms of a percentage, I'm sure that, I mean, at no, no smart business owner is trying to maximize the percentage of taxes that they pay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you run a business, I doubt you try to maximize the amount of tax that you pay.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't know, you know, I haven't sat, I don't have access to all of Elon's tax returns from his various companies and then his personal returns or anything like that.
[SPEAKER_00]: However, I often hear this thing just kind of thrown out loosely of like rich people need to pay their share fair share.
[SPEAKER_00]: Billionaires need to start paying taxes and so on and I always like kind of pause people because I'm like, well,
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it sounds like they're in two tanks.
[SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, it's about the percentage.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm a business owner.
[SPEAKER_02]: I run an S-Cort.
[SPEAKER_02]: I pay 20% in taxes, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's a large amount for what I'm doing, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Elon Musk didn't even pay 1%, but also the biggest issue isn't even the taxes.
[SPEAKER_02]: Take the taxes out of here for a second.
[SPEAKER_02]: The biggest issue that I have with somebody like Elon Musk or the government subsidies.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand why somebody like Elon Musk has the right to have all of those
[SPEAKER_02]: all of those contracts from the government.
[SPEAKER_02]: To me it doesn't make any sense and that's not it's the people that should be getting government contracts or people that are selling in those fields and that's not necessarily to say that Elon Musk isn't selling in the fields but he should not be getting as much as what he is getting.
[SPEAKER_02]: and then on top of that obviously there's tax issue there as well.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I just think that obviously it's it's ridiculously ironic because you know somebody like Elon Musk who came to this country I don't know if it was illegally but definitely not under the circumstances in which I think Republicans would necessarily be proud of if we looked back at his history.
[SPEAKER_02]: to then be telling Americans that, and then taking all of their government contracts doesn't really make a lot of sense to me.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that there needs to be a more even distribution of wealth, especially when it comes to government contracts.
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, I have a big question here.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have a few big questions.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I say this is someone who transparently is like absolutely against tax.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that income tax rate should be 0% for every single American.
[SPEAKER_01]: Every single human being.
[SPEAKER_01]: How do we, are anything?
[SPEAKER_00]: I grew up in a country with 0% income tax.
[SPEAKER_00]: I live in a country with 0% income tax.
[SPEAKER_00]: Not only does it run well, it runs better than,
[SPEAKER_02]: How will I guess like then what how do they do in the UK how are things covered I don't live in the UK.
[SPEAKER_00]: I live in I live in UAE I live in Dubai.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, I live in a tax free country.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I grew up in Saudi Arabia tax free country all the Gulf countries are tax free UAE, Saudi Qatar, etc.
[SPEAKER_00]: And the USA used to not have income tax until what was in 1913 the majority of the US history there was no income tax either and
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, the country existed and it ran well.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I have a general question, which is given the insane amount of waste and fraud and corruption in the US federal government and how badly the use.
[SPEAKER_00]: Let me, I believe that the, the amount of federal revenue, the amount of revenue that comes in from federal taxes is higher than the GDP of almost every single country in the world, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So the US government on a federal level takes in something like five trillion.
[SPEAKER_00]: five trillion dollars a year and then they spend seven to eight trillion so they're spending trillions obviously that they don't have I think that the debt clock has just gone up to like forty trillion or something given the and and this is happening to be clear this happening under democrats and under republicans
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, no, I'm not saying this is like a problem from the left or something.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like my point is just they have proven that they are incredibly corrupt and or inept and incompetent with the money that they are receiving.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would assume that a lot of the trillions are being spent on things that you yourself don't necessarily support or approve of.
[SPEAKER_00]: Just generally, why would the answer or solution be to give them even more money?
[SPEAKER_00]: When I look at the US government, I'm not thinking, oh, the issue is they don't have enough money.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, we can definitely talk about allocation, but I think the idea that, you know, five trillion is not enough to do what they should be doing for the American people, I think is insane to be honest.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, I think that there's I mean, there's there's so much to unpack that I agree with you that I think allocation is a problem, but also Elon Musk didn't he like go in and try to expose this fraud that was ever which which was never found.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, no, he found a lot, but like people didn't people didn't seem to I mean, not at I don't know how everyone on the left was, but a lot of people on the left didn't seem to like what George was doing that didn't seem to like that the fraud is being exposed.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, there wasn't I mean Trump Trump ended up ending it anyway because there wasn't there wasn't a significant amount of fraud to expose and then we ended up having issues obviously was shutting down national parks like with all of these the a lot of issues came from that from those so I'm wondering I mean and obviously we could have whole separate debate on those specifically right like it's I don't I didn't see the results of that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't see what ended up coming from that that was necessarily groundbreaking news for the American people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, I mean, I think we disagree with that, but on that, but without getting lost in doge specifically, just what I was saying about, I mean, the U.S. is 40 trillion in debt.
[SPEAKER_00]: The government is wasting money on all sorts of things, and as you yourself have pointed out, like, I'll actually tell you my position.
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of have, like,
[SPEAKER_00]: two different sets of politics and generally I'm conservative slash libertarian leaning I think tax should be zero you know for one certainly when it comes to tax policy but
[SPEAKER_00]: If tax is going to exist, if people are going to be paying 20, 30, 40% of their income in tax, then I don't think it's unreasonable that health care should be covered by that.
[SPEAKER_00]: So my ideological position is just like abolish tax, but given that taxes do exist in the vast majority of countries and they certainly exist in the U.S. and people are certainly paying trillions of dollars into that pot.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there's a sort of, I think people should be demanding more in terms of where that, where that money goes.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't even, five trillion is such an insane amount of money.
[SPEAKER_00]: that you know like on a daily basis that I'm trying to actually let me I'm trying to think of the math here.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you have five trillion dollars, how much is that per day?
[SPEAKER_00]: So we're talking, so that's 5,000 billion dollars across 350 million people.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've learned not to do math like live on podcasts, but that's a lot of money per day where I don't know where the heck it's all going.
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, but anyway, to come back to the question, why would you think, okay,
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that first obviously we have to see where we're allocating our funds, obviously, that's going to, that's hugely important.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then also I think that we just have a lot of conservatives that I think are over spending.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if you look at like the difference between Trump and Biden, I mean, Trump put our country in more debt than Biden did.
[SPEAKER_02]: So this whole like it's conservative to save funds is just not.
[SPEAKER_02]: is just happening, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's one thing to say it, but I think that it's not actually materializing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But then also I think we need to look at like waste fraud and abuse in our campaigns, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like nobody talks about like how much we spend on US elections and it's ridiculous.
[SPEAKER_02]: It was a billion dollars that Kamala Harris spent, and Trump spent just about the same amount,
[SPEAKER_02]: That's insane.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, do you do you believe as a more conservative person that we should be having less spend on elections, that there should be more regulation on spending in elections?
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the amount it costs for someone to run a campaign is insane.
[SPEAKER_00]: I also think that after we're talking about $5,000 billion, talk of one billion
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but I mean, like, I think that we have to like have these legitimate conversations, you know, I, I just to me, it gets a lost in a little bit of what we were talking about with the with the culture wars, right, like I, you know, I believe that the conservatives.
[SPEAKER_02]: have peddles these insane culture wars in order to distract us from what the real issues are in this country.
[SPEAKER_02]: And luckily, I think that that's shifting in changing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that that people on the right are waking up to this, which is why I think the Trump has become really, that his popularity is terrible.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the polls are awful for him right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that's because people are really starting to wake up to that.
[SPEAKER_00]: When you say that you think that it's the right starting the culture wars, what do you what do you mean by that because I think we we don't agree on that aspect, but what why do you think how is it the right starting the culture wars.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I mean, the conversation about trans issues, right started on the right.
[SPEAKER_00]: How how how did it start on the right.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, Riley games was a huge reason why and of course, like turning point was a big reason why Riley gains got the platform that she did.
[SPEAKER_00]: But when did Riley games become popular?
[SPEAKER_00]: When was that race again?
[SPEAKER_02]: It's around like I remember we were talking about this a little bit.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was like around 2019 maybe.
[SPEAKER_00]: It was it was later than that.
[SPEAKER_02]: When was it?
[SPEAKER_02]: Twenty-one.
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what for for the sake of accuracy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to I'm going to just I'm going to just check that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm curious too.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I want to say around 2021, 2022, but let me see, it was 2022.
[SPEAKER_00]: So only four years ago.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and that's what the trans conversation was happening before that, which is my point.
[SPEAKER_02]: And it, I mean, I was beginning in your eyes of the trans call.
[SPEAKER_00]: The beginning of the mainstream trans conversation was Caitlin Jenner, which was 2015. Who was a, who was a, well, I mean,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but I'm just talking about the mainstreaming of even the word transgender, I don't think most people had even heard that word until 2015, but in terms of people pushing the, you know, the pronoun stuff, allowing men who identify as women and women's bathrooms, men and women's sports, all of those shenanigans that was not the right pushing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Even if we look at the issue of like, you know, men and women's sports when people are talking about that and obviously I think that we need to have a new one's conversation about this because I'm doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I love this.
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I hate these car.
[SPEAKER_02]: I hate that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, please let's do it.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's the most the reason why I hate this conversation is because I think it is.
[SPEAKER_02]: not productive at all for the majority of Americans.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we're talking about listen 1% of the population and we get so fixated on less than 1% of the population personally.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that we should have trans people in Olympic games sports, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that that's that might be an edgy take whatever, but I think the majority of people on the left would agree with that.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, when it comes to other sports, I mean, I'm sorry, but at the end of the day, Riley Gaines was going to lose that race regardless.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think the fact that Leia Thomas was in that race had anything to do with the fact that Riley Gaines lost and came fifth in that race.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that Republicans love and conservatives love to pedal.
[SPEAKER_00]: Can I, can I, can I pause you for a second?
[SPEAKER_00]: See, because this is not a Republican Democrat thing because I'm from the UK.
[SPEAKER_00]: And this issue has been a pretty significant issue in every Western country over the past decade.
[SPEAKER_00]: So this is, this one's not as simple as a sort of American right left thing because the UK has gone through its own version, Canada has gone through its own version, Bill C-16, which was pushed in, I think 2015.
[SPEAKER_00]: That was the thing that led to the rise of Jordan Peterson, and again, that was more than a decade ago.
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's in Canada.
[SPEAKER_00]: So all of, you know, the whole sort of transconversation,
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I know, I know kind of what you mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: I actually agree with you in that it's a distraction from bigger issues, but I don't think it's insignificant.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's very significant for a lot of reasons.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm not saying this because I'm more right leaning, but I'm curious as to how the, I think the right has reacted to it, but I think the idea that they kind of, you know, conservative kind of just magic issue out of nowhere,
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to know why you think it's significant.
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, because we're talking about reality.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's a lot of room to have opinions on all sorts of topics, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Immigration, tax policy, abortion, gun rights, free speech.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like there's, there are lots of things where we can, you know, people will generally agree on what facts are for the most part.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then you people have different opinions.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have different ideas.
[SPEAKER_00]: They have different solutions.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think what's so critical about this issue as much as I get tired of talking about it.
[SPEAKER_00]: is that we're talking about reality, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So if there are people, you are a woman, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a mother more than more than just a woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: You're a wife and a mother.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not according to the right, apparently I'm actually friends.
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I, I, as far as I'm aware, you, you, you, you, you're, you're, you're, you're clearly, you're, you're, you're clearly, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is touching on the thing, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So if you have, there are people on the left, some of them prominent, some of them in positions of power, who are quite literally saying, oh, men can get pregnant, men can give birth.
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, and that is, or even about the, you know, so-called trans women in women's sports, like, the, this is a rejection of reality, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: So in the same way that if,
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone was telling me, I'm looking at the sky and the sky is blue, and someone is saying that it is red, and they're trying to convince everyone it's red, and they're even trying to like harass or call people names who are not saying it's red or accuse them of being bigots or whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not super passionate about colors.
[SPEAKER_00]: But we're talking about reality here.
[SPEAKER_00]: And when that has an impact politically, culturally, socially and so on, and then when you move into the realm of it directly stepping on women's toes, or things that are impacting and affecting children, then naturally people across the aisle, like from the same liberals to conservatives to apolitical people,
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to create a problem for people because that's going beyond live and let live.
[SPEAKER_00]: They're on a lot of people saying, hey, even the most conservative person might be like, I don't get the trans thing at all.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's stupid.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's weird.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think men should wear dresses.
[SPEAKER_00]: Whatever.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I don't see a lot of people saying like, oh.
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, like that person is not, like, like, should not, like, legally be allowed to do that.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just like, I don't need to acknowledge it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And we don't collectively need to now pretend that, you know, Caitlin Jenner is actually a woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, Caitlin Jenner is not a woman.
[SPEAKER_00]: I have nothing against Caitlin Jenner.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't particularly care about Caitlin Jenner, but, you know, Caitlin Jenner fathered multiple children.
[SPEAKER_00]: Caitlin Jenner was Bruce Jenner for about 60 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: So if that's how this individual is chosen to live his life now, and that's what he wants to do.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't get it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's strange.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's right, but like that's between him and that's between him and his family.
[SPEAKER_00]: But
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, that is a libertarian.
[SPEAKER_02]: What didn't it be between him and his family?
[SPEAKER_02]: Like if I want to identify as a man and He's going to identify as whatever you want to see.
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that's what I'm saying is like to me, it doesn't make any sense to me because people want to talk about Men and women's bathrooms.
[SPEAKER_02]: They want to talk about all of these things.
[SPEAKER_02]: They want it because ultimately what they're really saying is that it is dangerous.
[SPEAKER_02]: It is radicalization, which is dangerous.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what I'm hearing.
[SPEAKER_02]: But really, what is radical, what the real group of people that we have to worry about, at least in the United States of America that is radicalized are white men, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: When I'm I'm a mother, obviously, I thinking about sending my kids to school.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not worried about a trans person going into that school and shooting up the school.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm worried about a young white man going into the school and shooting up the school.
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet, we never have conversations around that in the United States.
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead, we want to talk about less than 1% of the people who decide that they're going to identify as a different gender and are using the bathrooms and as if that's like the biggest issue happening right now.
[SPEAKER_02]: I just to me, that's what I mean by destruction.
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead of us looking at white men, who are radicalized in this country and who are engaged in mass shootings.
[SPEAKER_02]: Instead, we're looking at
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, I mean, look, we could focus on any demographic.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, white, white men are not the primary demographic per capita who are committing a lot of crimes in the U.S. That would be black men.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's shootings.
[SPEAKER_00]: If you include gang violence, yeah, actually.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't want to go there because we're going to go to the last question of Charlie Kerr.
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's just true.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm saying, I'm very clearly.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would encourage listeners to, yeah, well, it's, I mean, yeah, that's just reality, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: But at the same time, I mean, look, I think people can walk and chew gum at the same time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there's anything wrong.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's, I think, yeah, when if you're people are talking about these type of lone wolf school shootings,
[SPEAKER_00]: Then, yeah, that does seem to be predominantly young white men to do that if you're looking at gang violence or lots sort of inner city crime and so on.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's going to predominantly be young black men that are doing it.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's the same in my country.
[SPEAKER_00]: This is the same in lots of other countries.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think depending, you know, but I don't think
[SPEAKER_00]: I think sure, like people are going to have different focuses on different things for different reasons, sometimes with good intentions, sometimes with ulterior motives, I think that's absolutely true.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think there are people who like zone in on a specific demographic, doing a specific thing, and there's normally kind of an agenda with that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've seen out on both sides of the aisle.
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, just coming back to the issue, I was just talking, because you asked me about why this particular issue is something that people care about.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm saying why, because it got to the point where it actually does impact people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm totally aware that throughout my entire life and since before I was born, there have been people who identify as the opposite sex.
[SPEAKER_00]: There have been people who have so-called sex change operations.
[SPEAKER_00]: There have been cross-dressers, drag queens, transvestites, like all of that stuff, like historically,
[SPEAKER_00]: it's exist in different societies in a lot of ways.
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I like I said, it wasn't until mid-2010s where even became a topic, but I don't think that I think, again, I think there's a reaction to it, but I don't think it was pushed to the forefront and mainstreamed by any one of a conservative.
[SPEAKER_00]: persuasion.
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, I think this was actually a massive mistake that progressives made.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I think this sort of massive push with the trans thing is like I think the approach of actually talking about economics and affordability, and housing, and all the health care, all those things.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that would be a much wiser focus for people on the left than trying to sort of ram trans pronouns down society or trying to, I don't know, like, I agree it's a...
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree with you.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, listen, when we saw the exit polls of the last election, I will say this against my own party because I have to be there in this conversation.
[SPEAKER_02]: Democrats spend almost the majority of the election talking about abortion issues.
[SPEAKER_02]: And when the exit polls showed that less than 8% of people went to the ballot box to vote because of the abortion issue.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a problem.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's a problem that we have to address.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we knew this, like as a professional campaigner, I knew this at the beginning of the election cycle.
[SPEAKER_02]: I was like, I don't understand why we are focused on an issue that I am seeing at the doors when we go out there and knock doors in middle America that most people don't
[SPEAKER_02]: care about to be honest.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's not to say that it's not an important issue.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not to say any of those things, but as a professional campaigner, my job is to try to figure out what does the American public care about the most and then focus on those issues during an election.
[SPEAKER_02]: And obviously that is the economy.
[SPEAKER_02]: Obviously, I mean that you you've said it.
[SPEAKER_02]: We we know it from Trump.
[SPEAKER_02]: We know from Kamala and it's going to be the main issue going into 2026 as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I have a question for you, Zianna.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm curious because you've been campaigning on the Democratic side of politics for about 15 years.
[SPEAKER_00]: Is that right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, about well, but sometime between, I was working in, I was a adjunct professor in the beginning and then moved into campaigning around 2013.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I've noticed this shift on the left that's happened in both of our countries and perhaps in others, and this is a shift from a focus on the working class in economics to a focus on identity and rather niche issues, trans being an example of this.
[SPEAKER_00]: To the point where I believe now, in both of our countries, people who are actually economically working-class are more likely to vote for the right-leaning party than the left-leaning party and people who are university-educated and have degrees and so on and who are in these big, more liberal cities, they're more likely to vote for the left-leaning party.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, what do you make of that switch-up that seems to have happened?
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think that, well, one of the biggest issues that I think that we have in the democratic parties that we don't set up infrastructure ahead of time and continue with that infrastructure even in off-years, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And the Republicans have been really, really good at this.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't think necessarily it's a shift because of the way people are moving in a particular direction in those areas.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's more so a conversation about the infrastructure that we've
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think it's so important that we have that strong infrastructure, which I honestly don't think can Martin is going to achieve as the DNC chair unfortunately.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we're going to have to wait until we get a new DNC chair to be able to flip that and to focus on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, what do you agree with the right on?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think we've actually touched on a few.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: Or what do you, yeah, what do you agree with the right on?
[SPEAKER_02]: I agree with them on economic prosperity, I agree with the right, I agree with the right on a lot of things actually, I mean more so it would be on what we can completely disagree on which again, I think is really like the culture issues and again, it's not because I want everybody to be trained.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so that's not I just think that I think that I think that the right has just done such a disservice in distracting the American people from what the real what the real issues are.
[SPEAKER_02]: So we agree with them on a lot.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, like one of the things that we are
[SPEAKER_02]: sort of doing right now right with national ground game and the unethamericator is that what we're finding is that trump right now is dead maga is not there is no maga like any more right maga is ceasing to exist and so really what it is is it's a war now between the very few people left that are maga and america first which is the nicoentus crowd
[SPEAKER_02]: And if your listeners don't know much about New forth as I highly encourage, look him up, he's a out Nazi, he's, yeah, just I I encourage people to look him up and look at his story, but essentially that's what we're dealing with right now and the split is really happening, I think for a couple of reasons, so one is because Trump is not done what he promised on the economy and two is because he ran on no new wars and he's gotten us now into another war in Iran.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think a lot of these kids, especially young people, are saying, hey, why are you spending money in Iran and not in America?
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, why are you spending money on other countries and not here helping us?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think really what the Democrats have got to do now is they need to pull that America first messaging away from them because obviously, Nick Fuwentes is not really America first.
[SPEAKER_02]: Really Democrats are America first.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, when you say Democrats are America first, what do you mean?
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I believe that Democrats don't want us going into wars that are unnecessary.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that they are fighting against that and they're fighting against that external spend.
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I just, I just don't know if that's, I don't know if that's true.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think a bit like the spending issue, the spending issue from what I see as an outsider.
[SPEAKER_00]: It seems to be like a uni party problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it's a bipartisan issue.
[SPEAKER_00]: If I look over the course of my lifetime and I think it back to all the Democrat and Republican presidents, all of them have a part from Clinton, actually I think Clinton was decent with the budget.
[SPEAKER_00]: But outside of him, they've all run up the debt
[SPEAKER_00]: and they've all gotten into a bunch of random wars and done a ton of foreign bombings and so on.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I say this is someone who's lived over 20 years in the Middle East, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I've seen it.
[SPEAKER_00]: And you talk to people.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Trump's first term, he did a decent job with the not-starting new worst thing.
[SPEAKER_00]: And then obviously with everything that's happened with Iran over the last couple of months.
[SPEAKER_00]: The tune seems to certainly have changed and he seems to have some people in his
[SPEAKER_00]: In his ear, cough, Lindsey Graham, had crews in some others who, you know, like, they're just, I don't know exactly what their motives are, but, you know, they're, they're, they're warmongers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, and by the way, I say this is someone who lives in the country that received the majority of Iranian missiles and drones over the last couple of months to the tune of 2,500, aimed at the UAE.
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yeah, I'm not, I haven't been a huge fan of the fallout from that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I just don't know if, how would I put it?
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not convinced that say Kamala Harris had won.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not convinced that it would have been, or if Hillary Clinton had won, you know, a previous time.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not convinced that the wars are going to stop and things are going to be peaceful and the budget is going to be balanced.
[SPEAKER_00]: Now that we have this person in, it just seems to be a deeper problem.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't normally use the term deep state, but it seems to just be that regardless of who the administration is, these things, the military industrial complex just
[SPEAKER_00]: Ticks over, and it does its thing, and everyone over spends, and people make promises, and then they don't deliver, and everyone gets disappointed, and eventually four to eight years later, switches back to the other side, and people give the other, you know, if people get tired of blue, they give red to chance, people get tired of red, they give blue to chance, this just sort of seems to be the, seems to be the pattern.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, some of the things that we have to do, I think, is, well, obviously, I believe that the Democrats are way more on the side of the American people than Republicans are.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that most people would say that.
[SPEAKER_02]: However, I think that at the same time, that doesn't mean that there's not needed reform in the Democratic Party.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there absolutely is.
[SPEAKER_02]: so many different respects.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, especially when it comes to the Israel issue, when it comes to the way that we're spending, when it comes to the fights inward about how we adjust our medical system in this country.
[SPEAKER_02]: There's definitely those conversations need to be had.
[SPEAKER_02]: We do need to get out some of our older politicians that are stopping that progress from happening.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, who on the Democratic side do you think is a good representative of your views and the party?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you think is, who do you think is legit?
[SPEAKER_00]: Who do you like?
[SPEAKER_02]: I love so much.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love ARC.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not sure if she could win nationally at this point, but I would love to see her be able to grow profile to be able to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I love, I love, um,
[SPEAKER_02]: I love Gavin Newsom because I think Gavin Newsom really fights back in a way that we need on the left.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not necessarily like a huge fan of all of Gavin's policies, but I love that he is actually fighting fire with fire because at the end of the day, I mean, if it came between somebody like Nancy Pelosi, who I don't necessarily love, right, versus somebody like Donald Trump, I'm going to pick Nancy Pelosi every single time because Nancy Pelosi didn't cool the capital of the United States.
[SPEAKER_02]: Nancy Pelosi didn't bring us to war with Iran.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think inherently Donald Trump is anti-American and does not deserve to be the president of the United States.
[SPEAKER_02]: And also it was clearly in the Epstein files as well, which is a huge problem that the rights seem to not want to address.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this is such an interesting conversation, by the way, I'm really appreciating this because it's good to get a different perspective.
[SPEAKER_00]: Why do you love, okay, let's go through, why do you love AOC?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think AOC is young.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think she's vibrant.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that she's the future of this country.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that she really loves this country.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that she's going to do.
[SPEAKER_02]: And of course, again, we're never going to agree on every single thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's just not possible.
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not possible to agree with anybody on everything all the time.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think at the end of the day, we need to look at the real difference here of if somebody loves this country or not.
[SPEAKER_02]: I do not believe the Donald Trump loves this country.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that Donald Trump loves himself and I think that he wants to personally enrich himself and become the president of the United States is a great way to do that and has achieved that, by the way.
[SPEAKER_02]: But somebody like AOC, I think truly loves this country because I think that it's afforded her the ability to become a congresswoman in this country and she started from nothing and literally helped her mother clean toilets growing up whereby Donald Trump is somebody that always had everything handed to him.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: What about Gavin use him because I feel like a lot of the criticism level it truck you could probably level it him no.
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean listen Gavin again on all of his policies were not going to agree on all of them but I love the fact that Gavin Newsom is actually fighting back against somebody like Donald Trump.
[SPEAKER_02]: I will say a lot of Democrats have been very weak with their language.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not willing to fight fire with fire.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not willing to go to a redistricting war, but Gavin is willing to do that.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that there's something to be said about that.
[SPEAKER_02]: His social media game is fire.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like the way that he has reacted to Donald Trump, I think, is better than almost any Democrat has ever reacted to him.
[SPEAKER_02]: And obviously he's very triggering for Donald Trump, which I think is awesome.
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you think he's genuine?
[SPEAKER_02]: Gavin yeah I listen I believe that Gavin does love this country I think you know again I think that his policies and how we get there and also California is a really it's a really tough state because I think that obviously it's a massive state with its own problems right and I think navigating those problems are really challenging a lot more challenging than if you was the governor of Idaho right and I think that we need to acknowledge that as well.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, well, this is interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: I've never, in my life, I've spent quite a lot of time in California.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think you and Bill Mar are the only people I've heard say they like Gavin Newsom.
[SPEAKER_02]: I like, well, get, I don't agree with all of Gavin Newsom's pals either.
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to be clear about that, but I do, I do appreciate the fact because I mean, let's be honest, do you know any other Democrat that is fighting back as hard as Gavin Newsom is online against the, the right, I, I don't.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, I guess I also, maybe it's a some degree of political fatigue on my parts, but a lot of the American politicians online just kind of, generally, make me cringe.
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that, I don't know, I just find it, I find it very juvenile, I find it very W-W-E professional wrestling, and I can see the entertainment in that, I can see how people find it engaging.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, and by the way, like this is one of my biggest criticisms of Trump, by the way, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think sometimes, you know, sometimes something can be humorous in its funny, and you know, that goes across the board.
[SPEAKER_00]: But, sometimes I'm looking at this, and I'm looking at people who are in their 50s, 60s, 70s, sometimes even 80s.
[SPEAKER_00]: And they're kind of communicating with each other and with the wider population like teenagers.
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, I get the entertainment point, but if we come back to what we are originally talking about of just like, okay, what does the USA actually need?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's actually good for the people?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's beneficial?
[SPEAKER_00]: What's going to...
[SPEAKER_00]: you know, the first word in the country's name is United.
[SPEAKER_00]: And everyone, regardless of their political views, most people have a view that the country has become more divided.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's become more polarized, people don't, you know, whether it's families, friendships, neighbors like I don't know over the past decade, how many relationships have been ruined or damaged due to politics?
[SPEAKER_00]: I would wager that it's a lot, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: It's got to be in the millions.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I don't think it has to be that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think that.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it used to be that way.
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I don't know why
[SPEAKER_00]: It's, I don't know, like, as we're having this conversation and I'd imagine, you know, if we met in real life and had a conversation, I don't find it particularly difficult to have this conversation.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm enjoying it.
[SPEAKER_00]: I like hearing your perspective and, you know, there's things we agree on.
[SPEAKER_00]: There's obviously things we disagree on, but I'm not here.
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my gosh.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I'm, I don't know.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't know why what we're doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: is not being very well modeled by the people who are actually in positions of power, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's kind of goofy that it seems to be the case that, you know, if a policy proposal or if a bill is pushed from one side, then the only thinking is did it come from my side and then everyone votes with it or did it come from the other side and then they vote against it and both sides are both parties are guilty of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just not a healthy way to, it's not a healthy way to do politics, and I think that there actually are many things that there's always going to be disagreements.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I think that there is quite a lot of common ground.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I see this on lots and lots of issues, and I always kind of,
[SPEAKER_00]: A part of me always feels kind of sad and disheartened when something happens or even a tragedy strikes and immediately it's kind of just being used as like left versus right political fodder rather than okay, let's see where we actually agree and okay, let I'll give I'll give a real obvious example.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, everybody, nobody wants more, nobody wants more mass shootings or stabbing deaths or done deaths already.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like no one.
[SPEAKER_00]: Even the most, the most hard, from the most hard court to a advocate.
[SPEAKER_00]: to the most left wing, most progressive, we just need to ban all the guns type person.
[SPEAKER_00]: They actually agree that they want fewer children being shot in schools or fewer people.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like everyone actually agrees on that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But instead of that conversation sort of starting there and then being like, okay, let's hash it out and have this conversation and see what what immediately happens is both sides start pointing to the other, accusing them of wanting more people to die.
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't know about usey, but if someone accuses me of like being motivated by wanting innocent people to die,
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, we're not going to have a good conversation, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, if we could vote the great.
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, this is bad.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I've ever met somebody in my entire life that is said that we should ban all guns.
[SPEAKER_02]: I've never heard of that.
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm from the I'm from England.
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's a default year.
[SPEAKER_02]: At least of the United States, I'm never here that.
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, I feel like I'm very far to the left on this issue where I'm almost there, but I still believe people should have guns.
[SPEAKER_02]: So obviously,
[SPEAKER_02]: that's that's not the really the issue here.
[SPEAKER_02]: The real issue here is obviously that Republicans are taking money from the NRA and that is informing the way that they vote on regulation and therefore they are essentially putting the NRA above our kids and that that is the biggest issue is that we continue and that's why the left is just basically thrown up their hands at this point and said like
[SPEAKER_02]: if your thoughts and prayers, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: Because it's like we could say thoughts and prayers every single day, but at the end of the day, we have a mass shooting on this every single day in this country.
[SPEAKER_02]: And if they really wanted to stop that, they would.
[SPEAKER_02]: And Republicans, by the way, have in the past stop that in this country.
[SPEAKER_02]: by having more regulation.
[SPEAKER_02]: So to me, it's like, I just don't get how people can't see through that and see where the real issue lies there and want to have less, you know, I really think that we need to get money out of politics because all of these issues stem back to that is that there is no regulation of these groups buying people's votes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's that's disgusting in my opinion.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I definitely have my issues with the amount of money in politics.
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, I don't know all the ins and outs of it, but even if I just compare to what I know of other countries, the amount of lobby.
[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember how many lobbyists there are per Congress person.
[SPEAKER_00]: I could get some in saying ratio.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a huge problem with a big pharma for sure.
[SPEAKER_00]: You've already brought up the firearm lobby.
[SPEAKER_00]: I would also think, you know, big food and, you know, lots of these industries.
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a problem because it creates perverse incentives and it does seem that there are people in politics who are doing.
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to accuse anyone, but it seems like they're engaged in some form of insider trading.
[SPEAKER_00]: Some of the amount they're beating the market by is, it's a little sus, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: On both sides and that.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, exactly.
[SPEAKER_02]: Got to get rid of that on the Democrats.
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so okay, I approaching this, okay, so obviously it's a midterm year and then two years from now you're going to be looking at another presidential election cycle.
[SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about this a bit, but what do you think are some of the big mistakes that have been made on the left, on the democratic side?
[SPEAKER_00]: And what do you think they should do differently over these next couple of years to regain their base?
[SPEAKER_00]: Because it seems like they lost quite a lot of people in the last presidential election.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I think the first thing that we have to do is that we have to release the autopsy from the DNC, which can Martin, by the way, is refusing to do, which I think is ridiculous because I think that instead of us talking about all the reasons why we think that we lost, I think that we need to have actual stats behind it to see why we lost in order to be able to create a roadmap to not lose again.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that that's so important.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think like the leadership on that transparency is so important.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that the Pod Save America guys for calling Ken Martin now, and that was, was based as hell.
[SPEAKER_02]: Also, I think that we need to start really taking on organizations like Turning Point.
[SPEAKER_02]: If you want to talk about waste fraud and abuse, the first place we should talk about is the government.
[SPEAKER_02]: We should talk about Turning Point, how much waste fraud and abuse is in that organization.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, but also I think like as Democrats, we need to put in the footwork, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And I said this actually before Charlie died on CNN.
[SPEAKER_02]: I said that I think Charlie Kirk was the best organizer of our generation.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I still stand by that because ultimately he put in the footwork and we did it.
[SPEAKER_02]: And so the reason why the youth vote shifted nine points to the right is because of that footwork that he put in.
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's what we're trying to do in national ground game without the help of the DNC is that we're saying that hey this organization is extraordinarily corrupt they have pushed to use the nine points to the right and they're continuing to do that and instead of waiting for the DNC to come and back us up we're going to take them on directly and so that that's our plan going into the midterm election.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because I don't think it's enough for us to just say, oh, we're going to win the midterms.
[SPEAKER_02]: That's, first of all, it's not a for sure at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: And second of all, even if we do with the midterms, just because Trump screwed up, doesn't mean that that's enough for us to win in 2027 or 2028.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
[SPEAKER_00]: So what do you think is the, um, who do you think is going to run?
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, who do you think will be the democratic presidential nominee?
[SPEAKER_00]: What is it, two and a bit years from now?
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't, it's so hard to know because there's so many factors that could happen that all I do know is that we need to have a free and fair primary election and I do not believe that we've always had free and fair primary elections in the day.
[SPEAKER_00]: Bernie getting railroaded.
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, that was one of the things, but not the only thing.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think like we we have traditionally we have had issues in the Democratic party, which also led to by the way, Biden becoming the nominee, right, which I think, you know, everybody in the Democratic party, even his own staff, right, I mean, this is all come out that they all knew that he should not have been running for a second term.
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, that was clear as day, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And so instead of us having a real fair primary election, there are decisions that are being made.
[SPEAKER_02]: They're shifting people to vote for certain candidates without all the information on the table.
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm not, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not saying that anything was rigged here.
[SPEAKER_02]: But I am saying that there are external forces that place certain pressures to make things go a certain direction that they wanted to go within the establishment of the Democratic Party.
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that we need to stop doing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we need to allow it to play out for Ian there.
[SPEAKER_00]: How do you, how do you change that?
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you know the answer to that, but what's the solution there?
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that the way that you change it is that you have groups like ours that are going out or working outside of the Democratic Party infrastructure that are going out and they're really having those deeper conversations with voters.
[SPEAKER_02]: Because the big problem in the United States also that we never really talk about is the fact that a lot of people here just aren't voting at all.
[SPEAKER_02]: We have a massively, we have a massive disengaged population in the United States that are not voting, not just in presidential elections, but in any elections, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: And that is a huge, huge problem that we need to fix.
[SPEAKER_02]: And by the way, turning point did a really good job of that because they went out to all of these really small municipalities and said, oh, Joe Schmauer over here can win this race by 1500 votes.
[SPEAKER_02]: And nobody has ever challenged the Democrat out here.
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's just go in and fund him and get him the, make him the nominee and help him win his election for these tiny little seats, right?
[SPEAKER_02]: So we need to start doing that.
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to tackle everything from the ground up.
[SPEAKER_00]: That's interesting.
[SPEAKER_00]: And last question I want to ask you for today'sy.
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd like to ask this question for people who consider themselves progressives is what would your country need to look like for you to become a conservative?
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, God.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I really, I mean, the problem is is like, when we say conservative, are we talking about like a Trump conspiracy?
[SPEAKER_00]: When I say conservative, okay, let me tell you what I mean.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm talking, I'm talking about the we're using the words quite literally.
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm I'm talking like directionally.
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's call the conservative for the sake of this question.
[SPEAKER_00]: Someone who wants to maintain and uphold the status quo and Progressive is someone who wants to significantly change it Right, so what would the USA need to look like where you'd be like you know what I'm now a conservative I now want to maintain this status quo and I don't want it to keep shifting in whichever direction
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a great.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's an interesting question.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say that it would need to, we'd have no people in the United States or very few people that are going hungry.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's like a huge issue we have.
[SPEAKER_02]: It would have to be that we have access to mental health services for people in this country in real access to mental health services, not like a lot of the BS that we see in some of these states.
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that we would have to have a medical system that is working for people that,
[SPEAKER_02]: is not sending people into bankruptcy because they get cancer and we would have to have practically no mass shootings anymore.
[SPEAKER_02]: Like a lot of these countries that are having, you know, less than a few mass shootings every year.
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say if, and then of course, like access to education, yeah, I think if we could get all of that in place, then I'll move over to your side.
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think that that's gonna happen at a long time, but I mean, one can only pray, right?
[SPEAKER_00]: No doubt.
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Zee, it's been a pleasure to have, I've really enjoyed this conversation, and I'm grateful for you sharing your time and your perspective with my audience.
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, maybe we'll do another one in the future.
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, thanks so much for having me, and yeah, we'd love to do another one in the future too.